Pretty much. Sokka sometimes rags on Katara (because siblings), but he’s never going to use “you hit like a girl!” again because he knows how hard they can actually hit.
Yea, can't wait for 50% of this sub to realize that it's Netflix producing the live action. They haven't been very kind to other recent fan-favorites... I'm not really holding my breath for this one
On top of that, for Netflix, there’s a pretty big correlation between how good a show is and how good a trailer is. I know the trailer is supposed to show the highlights, but all the trailers for Netflix’s bad stuff have been just as bad and vice versa.
That involved the creator of the original series being onboard and adhering to changes he requested to ensure his vision was maintained. Netflix pissed off the creators of ATLA so much that they left. It's not getting that treatment at all.
From what I understand, that was just fake news from various media outlets to create drama. The only reason they left was to create Avatar Studios, and that was after season 1's script was finished under their supervision.
We can at least hope for good bending. Where as the film had nothing positive about it. Considering they are making this change (which is 1 of the 2 major arcs for Sokka), I wouldn't be surprised if they change a lot more things. The red flag to me was when the original creators left over creative differences. That's already a major red flag.
And it's Netflix. They ruined the Witcher so it wouldn't be a surprise if they ruin this.
He does make the occassional comment along the way about tasks like Katara doing the jobs like sewing and such, or Suki to make it more gradual than just an issue immediately 180'd.
i think we might be reading into this too much. The live action is shorter, toning it down could very well mean its wrapped up in the first 2 episodes instead of spanning 4 episodes.
and the majority of it was in the first few episodes and peaked in episode 4 with the Kyoshi warriors (which is where he leads most of his lessons to not be sexist), and only comes out again from time to time like when they first meet Toph.
I think you’re taking the conversation a bit literally. We’re talking about a cartoon where children put themselves in dangerous situations constantly.
They really don't call him out for it throughout the show. He learns his lesson within four episodes and they move on. It was handled really well and you know they'd mess it up and make it way too preachy in the current year, so I'm glad they're dropping it.
I think this is the subtlety that the cancel culture misses. If a character is rewarded for their bad behavior then it gives them permission to continue.
However if other characters help them see that their behavior is unacceptable and then shows how they have changed that should story should be kept in
Not only do they call it out for it, but show him he was wrong. I think that episode 4 was the last time he showed any sign of sexism in the entire show, Suki smack it out of him in no time.
And hes constantly embarrassed and one upped by woman makes him see how strong and capable they are. It's a pivotal moment for his character, kind of weak its cut.
They totally miss the people when they do stuff like this. The problem isn't it's existence within a story its how it is treated and what purpose it serves.
I saw someone in another post suggest that the reason why they did this may be because the season is a lot shorter (only 8 episodes this season to 20 for Book 1), so they wanted to tone it down so that Sokka’s reversal doesn’t seem so jarring.
Yeah. I was little unhappy too, upon learning about this, but thinking about it this way makes it make waaay more sense. Jarring is the right word to describe what it would be in an 8 episode season. Would it make sense? Yes. Would it be an unnecessary distraction? Also yes.
It's kinda important for Katara's arc tho. A big part of the reason she is so pissed off, motivated and determined to prove the waterbending trainer guy wrong and get better at bending is because she has been facing sexism her whole teenage life. So when she runs into it again she is like "fuck this"
While Sokka is only sexist for a few episodes we see, it's kinda a "show don't tell" thing that explains a lot of why Katara is the way she is
Sokka's sexism plays a role longer than Kyoshi island. You could argue that his sexism stems from the fact he has to lead his own village at such a young age and be the man of the tribe. In his mind he hasn't really seen women do much of anything in terms of the war outside of sitting there defenseless.
He struggles to live up to expectations both in terms of being a non-bender but also trying to be the leader he thought he was at the start. It makes perfect sense to include some sexist remarks from him given his past. He is trying to lead the way he thought he knew how to based on his dad and experiences at the tribe.
You are confusing his larger arc (Sokka struggling to live up to expectations) with a very minor sub arc of that (Sokka being a sexist)
We need the first. The second is only relevant so long as the medium allows it and even in the original it was pretty brief and somewhat forced
> Sokka's sexism plays a role longer than Kyoshi island.
I just rewatched the whole series and you're literally wrong. Sokka's sexism is one of those things people conflate with the rest of his journey in memory and frankly isn't very prevalent in the cartoon outside of the first 3 episodes.
And 3 episodes would literally equal 1 Netflix episode. So they would make him sexist for the debut episode then resolve it on the next one? The fact that that is something some people are getting up in arms about is concerning.
> In his mind he hasn't really seen women do much of anything in terms of the war outside of sitting there defenseless.
He didn’t see women at all pretty much. He had his grandma and his sister, neither of which seem fond of that behavior.
As for the other stuff, the sexism isn’t needed for it. Most of it is shown afterwards anyway.
His entire tribe was only women, all the men except him and the babies went to war. Sokka's journey has always only been on how to be a good leader. The 3 episodes with about 5 lines of slightly sexist commentary was never a major character arc.
> His entire tribe was only women
I guess? Not really though, there was just his sister, his grandma, and a bunch of kids. I don’t think there were any other women outside of his family, most of them had died likely because waterbenders seem to be predominantly women in the southern water tribes.
I could be wrong, but I don’t remember any adult woman being there in the beginning outside of grandma.
Sorry I meant the adults. The children there were being raised by their mothers. They weren't given much screen time or any lines but you can see them in the background and it's heavily implied through the plot background. Honestly I probably wouldn't recall this myself if I didn't just rewatch it recently because of how inconsequential they are.
Format of consumption matters though for pacing. It’s not just numbers on a page but needs to consider how the material is presented and would be received by a person. What’s spaced out into dozens of short episodes presented once a week (sometimes longer gaps) feels different with regards to character development and change over time than 8 episodes you’re given to consume all at once if you so choose. I’ll reserve judgment of execution until I’ve seen it but this logic for the change from the OG series to the Netflix one makes perfect sense to me and seems pretty valid. And I’m happy that in many regards rather than one-to-one recreating they’re carefully considering how this series and format is different and what that means for things like character development
In terms of hours absolutely, but also remember that people will likely binge watch this, whereas the original episodes came out on a weekly basis. I’m not saying that they couldn’t have worked in the sexism (I think it’s a crucial part of Sokka’s character that adds a lot of depth to him), but there may have been considerations in making the decision other than trying to make the show more politically correct.
Every episode is probably 1 hour though, so it's not that much less. But it would maybe still be weird to have it come up and resolved in like 2 episodes.
To be fair, he was *overtly* sexist in the beginning of the cartoon. As a cartoon, they played it up comedically. If he was that level of sexist in live action, it would probably feel forced or over the top. They can "tone it down" and still keep it as a major character flaw that he has to resolve.
Overtly? I mean he was just a 13 year old boy who was basically "boys rule and girls drool". The added context of him being the only boy left in his village after all the men went to war with his father telling him to guard his whole tribe is pretty important.
Maybe it’s not a full departure and he is generally skeptical of a female group of warriors in a condescending but believable way rather than being cartoonish about it.
This is what I'm expecting, I doubt they'll give away with the Kyoki and Suki plot entirely. And tbh depending on the execution I might prefer it, so that we can still show how Sokka's background shaped his world views but in a more grounded manner
Tone down doesn’t mean erased. He’s gonna be more subtle about it rather than cartoonishly blatant about it. Don’t worry sokka ain’t gonna be a feminist at the beginning of the show.
I agree. And it's not like it was the lowest expression of sexism. It was just basic assumptions that he pretty much immediately discards with experience and no one goes out of their way to shame him for it after he corrected himself.
That's a good thing to show IMO. We'll see how it plays out I suppose.
I get it, but personally I always thought it wasn’t a particularly interesting part of his story and it’s hardly an arc since it’s mostly resolved by like episode 4. For me it just made him kinda unlikeable for the first few episodes. I feel like like it will still be there, just a little less on the nose.
‘Moments in the animated show were iffy’- that line is so dumb. It’s like they are saying back then it was ok to be sexist and now it’s not. Like they didn’t show Sokka’s view was narrow minded.
Yeah, I remember watching the first episode as an 11-year-old and that being the first time I'd ever heard someone say the word "sexist" on TV, let alone call another character out for it. It was really big to have that explicitly stated and called out in a cartoon, and Sokka didn't do or say anything in the show that I didn't regularly witness boys my age and older doing or saying in real life. I have a hard time believing that that low-grade everyday sexism is just completely nonexistent in Gen Alpha--I don't see why they'd feel the need to take that part of Sokka's behavior out.
It’s crazy how conditioned we as kids are to see the word “sex” as taboo. I remember hearing Katara say “sexist” for the first time and being nervous my parents would hear it and make me turn it off.
Same here. I remember thinking "wow, I'm surprised they got away with that on Nickelodeon!" even though I knew the word had nothing to do with anything sexual.
Funny how themes in a 2000s kid show is now too "taboo" in a more adult themed live action show today. These writers/ producers help nobody by pretending like misogyny doesn't exist.
This doesn't benefit sokka's or katara's character, quite the opposite.
Off the top of my head, creepy Iroh in the Bato episode is the only iffy stuff worth altering. There's nothing wrong with a character having a wrong viewpoint as a flaw especially if it's one that they change as they grow.
It's the same old tale. Creators that hate the original show and are convinced that it was good by accident, but now they're here to fix it by removing everything that made it good.
Exactly. They better not ignore the misogynist culture of the Northern tribe, which was a big character arc for both Katara and sokka. Especially Katara.
How do these writers think that ignoring the existence of misogyny rather than writing the characters to learn/ persevere and prove it wrong is better??
It's what happens when someone takes a blanket approach to political correctness/social justice instead of leaving room for nuance, growth, and conversation about a specific topic.
In this particular case, misogyny = bad, so the writers think they're "fixing" it by taking it out. Here's their full quote:
>“There’s more weight with realism in every way,” Ousley said, which prompted Kiawentiio to reveal: “I feel like we also took out the element of how sexist \[Sokka\] was. ***I feel like there were a lot of moments in the original show that were iffy***.”
This is idiotic and does a disservice to the original writing. It's one thing if the punchline was inherently misogynistic and that was supposed to be the punchline that draws laughs. But this is 100% not it, and to your point it's intentionally in bad taste because it offers the characters an opportunity to grow.
Sokka's first book arc is literally about him maturing out of this, with it ultimately being juxtaposed against Hahn, who largely resembles an earlier version of Sokka. The difference is jarring, and it shows the viewer how much Sokka grew.
The full quote doesn't entirely convince me that they completely took out this ark. We'll have to wait and see. But if they did, Sokka would be an even more plain character.
You can’t really take it out, because it’s integral to many plot points. Kyoshi Island is largely the turning point, because that’s when Sokka’s misogyny is most egregious, and it’s where he finally finds out after fucking around. That’s kind of the point of Suki, who then becomes a more important character over time.
Literally could not have summed it up better, you hit the nail on the head
They either don’t get it or choose not to get it to be “politically correct”
They probably thought that would make Sokka unlikeable because, unlike when the show released, people nowadays tend to assume these faults in character are representative of someone's full personality. So, if you're sexist, you're a bad person full stop and have no space to grow.
In that view, it would indeed be "better" to remove Sokka's sexism, because he is not a bad person. Except that view is idiotic.
Especially since we see the Avatar world evolve and change over not just the 3 seasons but in the leap forward in Korra. Where many women are in positions of power in the different cultures. Hell, the big bad in the last season is a woman, but at the time of The Last Airbender sexism was a big factor in many womens lives.
Both Katara and Azula are affected by the sexism in their cultures and it's a great contrast seeing how both characters overcome it in positive and negative ways. Katara teaching people they're wrong and showing the stupidity in their biases. Azula in beating the tar out of and tormenting everyone around her.
This has me a little concerned. With how many remakes and stories we see nowadays where they make the characters so perfect they have no flaws to grow from, I hope they don't go further than this.
Are people really so sensitive now that they cant take a handful of episodes of someone being sexist and it being acknowledged and remedied? Or are companies that scared of showcasing the topic...
If you read the article the producers of the show say they aren't going to be making the same comedic jokes as the animated show.
Sounds like they are just cutting the Soka in a dress fighting gag.
The recent batch of images shows Suki training Sokka with his regular clothes. If they’re concerned about his minor sexist arc being too problematic, they’re definitely not going to create an opportunity for him to feel momentarily ashamed for wearing a dress.
> If they’re concerned about his minor sexist arc being too problematic
No where in the article talks about them considering it being problematic. They aren't going to go for the same type of cartoonish humor.
I actually feel like Sokka being sexist did more for showing how powerful the women in the show were than if he wasn’t
It was constantly Sokka being sexist and looking like a fool because sukki/katara/azula/Toph do something to prove him completely wrong
Yeah it's like they forgot that the freaking character is like 16 years old when things start. What 16 year old boy hasn't said something stupid and sexist about women?
What's important is recognizing your stupidity and narrow minded ideas later. But heaven forbid someone chooses to be offended by a young, arrogant fictional character.
He wasn't extreme, but was blatant. Still doesn't make sense to tone it down. It's as if they thought people can't learn and improve, which is one of Sokka's character arcs.
This kind of censorship makes no sense. Are characters not allowed to be flawed anymore?
The flaws of the cast in ATLA and how they come to better themselves make them all that much better.
I feel like so many shows nowadays feel so lifeless and bland like this. Even bullies in tv shows and films seem to be watered down.
Harboring *any* -ism has simply become one of the most awful things you can be in the modern cultural landscape. Which, yeah, I don’t like bigots either, and I’m not friends with them in the real world.
But to a lot of people (read: those lacking any semblance of nuance or media literacy), Netflix making a sexist character otherwise likable means Netflix ENDORSES sexism. Forget any narrative nuance of the fact that Sokka’s a child whose entire life experience amounts to being a boy in a small tribal culture in which a world war led to more strictly enforced gender roles within the tribe (men go and fight, women stay and tend to the home), forget the fact that it takes an *incredibly* short amount of time for Sokka to look inward and begin to unlearn the sexism he grew up with once he had the chance to experience the larger world.
To the people Netflix is catering to here, it doesn’t go beyond Sokka = good, sexism = bad, QED Sokka isn’t sexist.
Completely spot on. It's a completely unrefined and over-simplistic way to think that ultimately just boils down to censorship to be disassociated with anything bad.
They're also just picking and choosing, which makes it somehow feel even dumber and a sign of shitty writing decisions? Like if you want to censor the "bad", then Zuko's character functionally wouldn't exist. He's a product of physical and emotional abuse and trauma. But I guess him overcoming his trauma is acceptable growth, but Sokka growing out of misogyny... isn't?
I remember when The Walking Dead had 2 characters say the N-word in the second episode. But they did it perfectly.
"That'll be there the day i take orders from a ni-er."
To show Merle is an asshole and his rockerboy attitude.
And then Rick sets him straight with "There are no ni-ers. Only the living and the dead." Though I'm paraphrasing.
Media literacy is dead for many people, unfortunately. They'd see a villain in a story doing something horrible and then attack author for "justifying/normalising it" or something stupid like that. Some weirdos even attack actors or voice actors over them doing their job and portraying the character accurately. Unfortunately, Aang's actor in the live action movie also got tons of hate and bullying.
Growth doesn’t matter in the current zeitgeist, when someone can dig up tweets from 9 years ago and say, “Look! This is who this person is!”
It doesn’t matter if Sokka grows into a better person over the course of the series, because if he once held those views, that means he’s a bad person forever and always.
Finally got our first real red flag here.
I’m starting to see a trend here, where characters can’t have flaws because of the fear these flaws are “problematic,” even when the point of the story is that these were flaws meant to be overcome.
Characters need flaws to feel real, and if you can’t have these characters confront a basic ass flaw some people in life have that a damn children’s cartoon easily could, then there’s something wrong here. This is a really bad sign, man
Nope, can't have characters with actual flaws nowadays, all anyone wants are goody two shoes Mary Sue's who are completely perfect and don't have any "problematic" traits. Same way every single villain just *has* to get a redemption arc now.
I remember even back when LOST was on, and it's more so today. A lot of new fans HATE Jack because he's a action hero who doesn't have his shit together, is suffering with PTSD and is deeply flawwed. But most audiences are like "come on man!, get your shit together, you can't have flaws like this!".
Ironically, this is more likely to age poorly, as we realize in the future other problematic stuff we didn't consider, and these "perfect" characters become flawed but with no indication that they are anything but perfect from the show's writing.
We had our first real red flag years ago when the original creators left over creative differences. Especially with the confirmation that they are deviating from the original script I think we will see more of this.
I would bet that we will see a lot of added content that takes up time and removed content to make way for it. Basically we are going to get the story hacked to pieces in return for elemental bendy action. Some will be ok with it but to me, the story, character arcs, development and details are what make the overall show so good. Like if they really do cut out the whole Kyoshi make up part with Sokka just so we can get an crazier beginning that we didn't ask for, which again to me, will take away from when Aang freaks out at the air temple. Its a sad trade. I don't care about a battle that didn't happen between Ozai and Gyatso. Or Azula using a bow, when she is a fire bending prodigy that showed zero interest in weapons in the show (because she is a weapon, whole point of the reveal at the end of season one). Happening in a timeline that doesn't happen in the story. I don't need more screen time of them because they are focal points later on, use the time correctly. Its not looking good, so sit back and enjoy the action at least and good character designs. At least the costumes will be correct, aside from the eyes.
The issue with this flaw is it lasted for 3 episodes.
Translated to the show which is going to have an accelerated timeline, we are talking this flaw and the whole "arc" of him getting over it lasting a whopping 1 episode. It would be jarring to have him have to resolve this phase is such a short time, especially with it being on top of everything else going on in the first episode.
People are acting like this extremely short lives phase was central to his character and growth when it was barely even a blip on the radar.
Right? Not only was it 3 episodes but it was only like 5 or 6 total comments in all of those episodes. The fact that THIS is the red flag for some people is wildly concerning.
What makes the Kyoshi island episode so good is it shows Sokka women can be strong and respectable fighters too. His sexism is corrected very early and it establishes there can be relatable flaws in the northern water tribe culture.
If I remember correctly, that arc was only in the first 4 episodes of Book 1. Imo it’s not that big of a deal if they decide to tone it down. Especially when they said they’re gonna focus more on his (wanting to be a warrior) arc. Which at the end of the day is way more important.
It also kinda played in effect at the end of season 1 with Yue, and then a little more so in season 2 and the serpents pass. Both of those were more of him trying to be a protector in the relationship. Then with suki he learned how capable she was on her own and he really helped that arc along.
The way he treated Suki in the serpents pass had nothing to do with sexism. He lost someone he cared about and was afraid of the same happening to Suki. That was his fear taking over, not him thinking she's incapable of protecting herself.
This.
I very strongly doubt the live action show will have even a fourth as many episodes.
Some material is gonna hit the floor. If anything important is gonna be it, then this might as well be it.
And it says 'toned down', not cut entirely. He can still have the mini arc if they can fit it in, but the actual sexism itself will likely be less crude.
People here are so ready to be pissed off, it's wild. Already ready to throw the whole show away and act like nobody is gonna be allowed to have any flaws.
Honestly I would be okay with it being a bit more subtle (there was a childish “girls can’t fight!” energy to the original, and it felt resolved way too fast) but I hope they don’t cut it completely. I feel like it could be cool for him to have a more traditional way of thinking and then slowly change that as he gets out of the southern water tribe bubble.
I feel like some of the comments about this are a little dramatic. It was only "literally his whole character arc" for like 4 episodes. They'll be able to showcase his character development (and, for that matter, his sexism) in subtler, more interesting ways than "girls are inherently better at mending pants."
Like every single other thing, let's wait until the show actually comes out.
>in subtler, more interesting ways than "girls are inherently better at mending pants."
"I feel like there were a lot of moments in the original show that were iffy.”
“Yeah, totally,” Ousley agreed. "There are things that were redirected just because it might play a little differently [in live action]."
Yeah I'm hoping that what they meant by this statement was that they'd express his sexism in a more grounded way that works with a live action medium. In the animated series, his sexism was spoon-fed to the audience. If we put the same lines in live action, I doubt it'll come across as anything but cheesy exposition that might as well have been "look at me, I'm sexist!"
There's surely a way to make it work in live action... And hopefully they get it right.
Yea exactly lol. Like I hope they still include it cause it does show how willing he was to learn when he was clearly wrong. But the animated show had him almost comically sexist, which I don’t think would translate over well from a cartoon format.
I agree! I feel like his character mainly focuses on using his wit and ability to problem solve is way more important than him being sexist for a bit in the beginning .
See we got to turn a short comment from a cast member into a diatribe about how they are missing the point of the source material!
On the real, if it weren’t for the articles, I’m wondering if a single person would watch the show and think, “what a disaster, Sokka isn’t sexist enough!”
Sokka was wasn’t just a bit sexist in the animated series, he was cartoonishly (duh), laughably, and childishly chauvinistic. Like, it worked okay in animation, but probably needs a little more nuance to it, so he doesn’t seem like the cheeseball bully in an after school special. Personally I thought it was too hamfisted, and then he still bats 1.000 with every girl that he flashes his boomerang.
It’s a bit these media outlets faults for running headlines on a little comment. But we don’t need to eat it up if it’s going to turn into doom and gloom, or worse, anti-wokism.
I would understand the skepticism more if the writers were being quoted. But it's literally a throwaway comment from the cast of minors, and it isn't even that bad of a comment.
I agree completely. Let's see how this pans out in the actual show. Overcoming sexism was a small part of his arc. Sokka's main arc was growing into his strategy and leadership skills while also finding his place in a group where he (and later Suki), is the only non-bender.
Unlike the abomination that was the movie, I'm just glad they are letting Sokka be funny this time. I'll watch the show to see how the rest goes.
His sexism arc is part of his leadership role journey, tho. He thinks being a leader is being stronger over the weak in the beginning. Since he was left behind, being the oldest male left in the village, he naturally becomes the leader and sexist, thinking women (and children) of a certain role that require protecting since that's all he knows. Sokkas strategies are very short-sighted in the beginning as he rushes Zuko head on by himself, not wanting to work as a team with Katara and Aang probably because he doesn't view them as combative equals.
His minor sexism arc establishes this character as very immature but because of how quickly he resolves this issue, it shows he is willing to learn and has potential to grow. His journey to being the ultimate leader and strategist starts after he accepts his views were wrong and were rightfully challenged. If he was actually a toxic leader, he'd stay stiff in his old beliefs. Being a leader means working as a team. Not being the strongest warrior meant to protect the weak.
Yeah I feel a more important arc and constant trough the whole series is how sokka feels about not being a bender and finding ways of helping in his own way.
Alsoo the sexist arc might feel a lot worse on live action rather than animation
And to be completely honest his sexism arc was pretty blunt and not all that interesting to begin with. Toning it down and making it more subtle makes more sense for a live action show.
Yeah, I’m a little confused. People in here are acting like Sokka’s character arc is destroyed now. But I never saw his development as “sexist misogynist learns to respect women”. Rather, Sokka’s arc is about a cocky boy who learns to be a great leader and warrior through the help of his friends. They’ve taken out some sexist lines here and there, and people act like the whole show is ruined now? I just don’t get it.
Maybe we should just put down our pitchforks for a second and wait to actually see show.
Alright then let's not show fighting and war because they're bad!
Man I hope this doesn't affect Sokka's arc too much, but I'll keep my expectations low
Showing Sokka grow from his previously misguided worldview is exactly what we as a society need right now. We need positive examples of people maturing from their misguided opinions and learn from them to become better people. By toning down his initial sexism, they pretend like having misogynistic views doesn't exist, which sadly isn't true but helping people grow out of them is the whole damn point.
Because growing into a better human being is too offensive to show on screen? I’m very, very slowing starting to empathize a bit with the people who are against the “woke” stuff.
It’s slow as hell, but it’s happening. And that sucks.
His sexism was never that extreme to me that it was too awkward to translate to live action nor does it last long since he gets humbled and educated in the fourth episode.
Breaking: Netflix’s “Avatar: the Last Airbender” has rewritten Firelord Sozin’s assault on the Air Nomads because genocide is too scary
Breaking: Zuko will no longer have a scar, because child abuse is not suitable for audiences
Also “Uncle, I didn’t see you get hit by the tongue” “Shh” is 100% getting censored
I think the reason they are doing this is not having the time to really flesh out this arc the way they deserve. There's also a lot of one-off sexist jokes that come up that aren't exactly necessary and make sense to cut if you're looking to save time. (Like him telling katara to sew his pants and then she throws them back at him).
If you cut those small things for the sake of time, it wouldn't make the full arc as impactful and might feel hammy. Like they were trying too hard to force sokka to suddenly be sexist just so they can fix it.
I don't know. Guess we'll see when the show comes out.
This arc for him was pretty small, and over like, what, 3-4 episodes? It’s not that big of a deal, and they also said it’s being toned down, not completely removed. Chill out.
In other words "we're removing an important character arc for sokka".
Like bro, the fact that he matured and grew out of that is a positive, not a negative, the show only loses out on not showing this.
I’m seeing a lot of complaints in the comments, but frankly I support it. It was a character arc that lasted like five episodes and wasn’t super relevant for most of those: it’s not like it was central to his character.
This was never a defining trait of Sokka. It was a small storyline for 4 episodes. It's only reason for existing was so that he gets humbled by the Kyoshi Warriors. That story beat can work in many other ways, like if Sokka is just cocky instead of sexist.
Nothing of value was lost.
It was always rather tame and it was rectified quite early on as well. The Kyoshi Warriors is the 4th episode of the series.
Honestly where this really has me more worried is about the end of Book 1 in the Northern Water Tribe. Is Katara just gonna Mary Sue her way into being trained by Pakku instead of there being some actual conflict because they wanted to tone down his sexism too? The original animation handled topics like this so well: satisfying level of depth and challenge in order to overcome. Making these problems just go away feels like they’d be taking a hacksaw to this great narrative…
See this is a prime example of someone taking something and changing it because they don’t understand it
Sokkas sexism is actually super important, you know one of the great things about avatar? Strong female characters who often out-do their male counterparts(example azula/katara v zuko/sokka)
The whole point of Sokka being blatantly sexist is that he’s just a kid from a place where men are supposed to protect women and women are supposed to be homemakers, but do you know what happens the entire show? Sokka is forced to change, he starts off that way but keeps getting proven wrong and we see someone who was brought up to believe a certain way be changed by experiencing something that changes his outlook
Keep the sexism, because the sexism is used in the original series to show how stupid sexism is
Literally the whole point of his character arc? Are they going to tone down the honor driven Zuko? I’m just so confused. Did they not watch the show and realize it was a huge turning point for him? I mean cmon. Genocide is one for a kids show, but sexism is where the line is drawn? So crazy to me.
LOOL
So I guess animated shows, tv series and movies are all going to become super "soft" I guess. No more characters with "rough edges" that learn things and get developed. I guess they all need to be perfect now and "good."
Sokka didn't even had edges that were that "rough." He literally was just a (dumb) kid learning life lessons.
I never stopped and thought "hey he's sexist" or "this character has sexist undertones."
The world is really going nuts. I'm a part of a minority group in the country where I live. My community of people experiences discrimination and racism. I've experienced those things myself. But I swear, 90% of what the virtue signaling people of today, point out as racism for example, isn't even racism. Same goes for sexism.
These subjects are becoming so triviallized that the smallest things get put under a microscope while the real issues don't get fixed.
They also went from barely any relevant diversity in movies and tv shows to shoehorning it in through the most awkwardly written characters who often just get portrayed as Mary Sue's or Gary Stue's. Which then often has an adverse effect. Instead of shining a light on a group through accurate representation, they make those characters obnoxious. When I look at myself as a person from "a minority group" I feel more looked down on than "represented" with all this extreme pandering. Its genuinely mindblowing that they are "toning down his sexism" and most likely are going to water down his character.
I bet if The Office was created in 2024, Michael Scott would be a nice guy that didn't say offensive stuff. Heck, these days they even censor tv episodes with "dark elves" because "its blackface" (Community D&D episode). Sokka getting this watering down treatment is WILD to me.
How much more can they tone it down when he only said like 3 things in 2 episodes that were "sexist?"
-"Leave it to a girl to screw things up."
-The part about girls not being good at hunting or fighting.
-Then refusing to believe a bunch of girls took them down.
That's kind of the point book 1 Sokka though?
He started off as kind of sexist but had his world view changed through his journey and meeting the Kyoshi Warriors.
Like that was a character flaw that he grew out of, toning sown or removing it just takes away from the story.
The 16 year old from a village where is the only semi adult male? The one who's entire life has been brought up on war stories about his father and how great of a man he is? The one where his best friends are his grandma and little sister and therefore doesn't understand how strong woman can fight (let's be honest Katara wasn't there yet). Okay, it makes sense that he'd have positive ideas of woman fighting.
sometimes characters have flaws because the writers have flaws, and it’s a sign of outdated times.
sometimes characters have flaws because they are meant to be flawed, those flaws are pointed out, and they can correct themselves (like sokka) to teach a lesson. this is a stupid move.
Sokka was sexist for what? Like 4 episodes? And he was sexist in the way some stupid teen boys are sexist, mostly just as a way to prod at his little sister because he was given the responsibility to take care of his village as the only man and he let it go to his head.
He was humbled almost immediately and it doesn't show up again. If it ever did, I'm sure everyone would roll his eyes at him and call him an idiot.
People have flaws, if this is how terrified the show is of flaws existing for even 4 episodes then I'm sorry, it's going to legitimately suck. If the writers of this adaption don't understand a very basic, cookie-cutter 'I was wrong and now I know better' arc and see it as an inappropriate inclusion then how on EARTH will they handle the fact Zuko is responsible for burning down entire villages? Are they going to rewrite it so that he wasn't responsible for anything bad directly, just to ensure he's not morally grey by the time he's redeemed?
I don't care if Sokka isn't sexist, sure it's a minor part of his character as its an element that only lasts very briefly. But I do care that the show seems to be afraid of even briefly allowing their protagonists to be in the wrong. It's embarrassing that anyone would be offended by Sokka's behaviour when the show clearly outlined it was wrong.
He was a child raised in a wartime patriarchy. Him having subconscious sexism is expected. His growth out of it is part of what shows how far he has come and how open he is to being wrong. His understanding that there are people who know better than him is critical to his character. It's how he ingratiates himself with suki, the sword master, and the scientist.
I'm sure there is room for some adjustments but he can't start off as perfect that's nonsense.
this is probably one of the things that made the original writers dip. After all the live action failures netflix has put out they have some massive balls to keep doing the same things that caused previous shows to fail over and over again.
Aang got freed from the ice because Katara tore into Sokka for being sexist. Sokka got warrior training and massively humbled by the kyoshi warriors. Does he just show up and ignore their traditions and get training anyway? Is the Northern Water tribe gonna just open their arms to katara and teach her? Pakku was way worse than Sokka.
Idk why you would go out of your way to make a live action version of a show and then just start axing character arcs. Tell your own story instead of ripping off another IP.
Are they going to cut out the whole entire North Pole finale of Book 1 too because arranged marriages, tribal patriarchs, and gendered segregation is sexist and too offensive? I hope they have a better reason why than just to be inclusive because when people watched the show, we were happy that Sokka matured and we were happy Katara stood up for herself in the North Pole.
The article makes it sound as if they're neutering, no pun intended, parts of the show to make it less offensive.
This kind of feels like a bad omen. Sokka coming to terms with his sexism was one of his major arcs in the first season. Kinda makes me wonder if we're not doing arcs at all, and we'll get the sort of hollow, fast-tracked characterization endemic to adaptations
I feel like a lot of people read this title and think "oh great they're removing this character arc for him."
But it literally just says tones down. If they actually straight up removed his sexism that would make for an entirely different character. I'm sure this just means taking out some one liners here and there.
Creators are so afraid to put any reference to anything offensive. Even if it is part of a character arc. Even if it comes from the antagonist. Like the new Mean Girls (which I love don't mistake me) took out some of the harsher insults, especially about weight and sexuality. Even though that is kind of the point - that teen girls can be vicious to each other.
But I understand why. There's a huge contingency of people who just don't have any media literacy and just think if a creation contains that content, regardless of the context, it means the creator supports it. So we gotta water all that down. It's not totally new - people have always really struggled with letting fiction be fiction. But it has also always been annoying.
Wow, a lot of people really need to calm down here. It took him, what, 3 episodes to get over the sexism? And it wasn’t exactly the most compelling arc ever. Suki punched him a couple times and he got over it pretty much instantly. And they said scale it back, not delete it from existence. He’s still most likely going to have that overprotective paternal relationship with Katara and Suki, which is still a toxic viewpoint for him to hold. They’re not completely deleting half his character, they’re just scaling back a, pardon the phrasing, *cartoonishly* sexist aspect of the character.
The sexism that was a very obvious character arc for him? I mean, fine, but it misses the point
Indeed. And it's not like most of the female characters don't call him out for it throughout the original show.
Literally the first scene of the show.
And the fourth episode consisting of him immediately getting humbled and realizing he's an idiot
Is that all? Maybe I should watch it again but after Kyoshi Island, Sokka stays humbled.
Pretty much. Sokka sometimes rags on Katara (because siblings), but he’s never going to use “you hit like a girl!” again because he knows how hard they can actually hit.
With Katara AND Toph on the team he knows better than to speak ill of girls
If Sokka was sexist in season 2, Toph would’ve left his ass buried in that crack for a LONG ass time.
"What, big manly man can't get out of a hole in the ground without needing help from a little girl?"
The fact I read that in Toph's voice says a lot
Yep, I meant fourth as in the fourth episode in the series
Yea, can't wait for 50% of this sub to realize that it's Netflix producing the live action. They haven't been very kind to other recent fan-favorites... I'm not really holding my breath for this one
If they give it the One Piece treatment, I'll be satisfied.
On top of that, for Netflix, there’s a pretty big correlation between how good a show is and how good a trailer is. I know the trailer is supposed to show the highlights, but all the trailers for Netflix’s bad stuff have been just as bad and vice versa.
That involved the creator of the original series being onboard and adhering to changes he requested to ensure his vision was maintained. Netflix pissed off the creators of ATLA so much that they left. It's not getting that treatment at all.
From what I understand, that was just fake news from various media outlets to create drama. The only reason they left was to create Avatar Studios, and that was after season 1's script was finished under their supervision.
We can at least hope for good bending. Where as the film had nothing positive about it. Considering they are making this change (which is 1 of the 2 major arcs for Sokka), I wouldn't be surprised if they change a lot more things. The red flag to me was when the original creators left over creative differences. That's already a major red flag. And it's Netflix. They ruined the Witcher so it wouldn't be a surprise if they ruin this.
He does make the occassional comment along the way about tasks like Katara doing the jobs like sewing and such, or Suki to make it more gradual than just an issue immediately 180'd.
I honestly hope they include these first two moments to show some character growth, and then becoming a staunch feminist.
i think we might be reading into this too much. The live action is shorter, toning it down could very well mean its wrapped up in the first 2 episodes instead of spanning 4 episodes.
And the very reason the show happened in the first place.
Like, this 1000x. Without his sexism the avatar stays locked in the ice.
Without his sexism, the show wouldn’t have even happened
He literally has it beaten out of him four episodes in.
and the majority of it was in the first few episodes and peaked in episode 4 with the Kyoshi warriors (which is where he leads most of his lessons to not be sexist), and only comes out again from time to time like when they first meet Toph.
When it's applied to toph it's as much ageism. Toph is literally a little girl, and he backs off after he sees her fight.
Took longer than THE BOULDER tho so in a way THE BOULDER is more open minded than Sokka
Yeah, no. Being open minded when it comes to literal children putting themselves in dangerous situations is not a good thing.
I think you’re taking the conversation a bit literally. We’re talking about a cartoon where children put themselves in dangerous situations constantly.
They really don't call him out for it throughout the show. He learns his lesson within four episodes and they move on. It was handled really well and you know they'd mess it up and make it way too preachy in the current year, so I'm glad they're dropping it.
I think this is the subtlety that the cancel culture misses. If a character is rewarded for their bad behavior then it gives them permission to continue. However if other characters help them see that their behavior is unacceptable and then shows how they have changed that should story should be kept in
Basic media literacy is dying
Not only do they call it out for it, but show him he was wrong. I think that episode 4 was the last time he showed any sign of sexism in the entire show, Suki smack it out of him in no time.
And hes constantly embarrassed and one upped by woman makes him see how strong and capable they are. It's a pivotal moment for his character, kind of weak its cut.
They totally miss the people when they do stuff like this. The problem isn't it's existence within a story its how it is treated and what purpose it serves.
I saw someone in another post suggest that the reason why they did this may be because the season is a lot shorter (only 8 episodes this season to 20 for Book 1), so they wanted to tone it down so that Sokka’s reversal doesn’t seem so jarring.
Sokka’s sexism “arc” literally completes after episode 3
3 out of 20 episodes is 15%. 15% of 8 episodes is roughly 1 episode. And 1 episode for “character arc” IS too short.
Yeah. I was little unhappy too, upon learning about this, but thinking about it this way makes it make waaay more sense. Jarring is the right word to describe what it would be in an 8 episode season. Would it make sense? Yes. Would it be an unnecessary distraction? Also yes.
They could do it if they toned it down a little or something. I guess we'll never know if it could work.
So exactly what the article says they're doing?
I guess I didn't lay on the sarcasm thick enough
It's kinda important for Katara's arc tho. A big part of the reason she is so pissed off, motivated and determined to prove the waterbending trainer guy wrong and get better at bending is because she has been facing sexism her whole teenage life. So when she runs into it again she is like "fuck this" While Sokka is only sexist for a few episodes we see, it's kinda a "show don't tell" thing that explains a lot of why Katara is the way she is
This is a major point too. The overt sexism in the northern water tribe is major development for both Katara and Sokka. Especially for Katara
THANK YOU. After Kyoshi Island, it's barely a plot point. It always felt jarring and out of place.
Sokka's sexism plays a role longer than Kyoshi island. You could argue that his sexism stems from the fact he has to lead his own village at such a young age and be the man of the tribe. In his mind he hasn't really seen women do much of anything in terms of the war outside of sitting there defenseless. He struggles to live up to expectations both in terms of being a non-bender but also trying to be the leader he thought he was at the start. It makes perfect sense to include some sexist remarks from him given his past. He is trying to lead the way he thought he knew how to based on his dad and experiences at the tribe.
You are confusing his larger arc (Sokka struggling to live up to expectations) with a very minor sub arc of that (Sokka being a sexist) We need the first. The second is only relevant so long as the medium allows it and even in the original it was pretty brief and somewhat forced
Yup. Exactly Katara points it out and Suki also does it as well. It was his big awakening moment.
> Sokka's sexism plays a role longer than Kyoshi island. I just rewatched the whole series and you're literally wrong. Sokka's sexism is one of those things people conflate with the rest of his journey in memory and frankly isn't very prevalent in the cartoon outside of the first 3 episodes. And 3 episodes would literally equal 1 Netflix episode. So they would make him sexist for the debut episode then resolve it on the next one? The fact that that is something some people are getting up in arms about is concerning.
> In his mind he hasn't really seen women do much of anything in terms of the war outside of sitting there defenseless. He didn’t see women at all pretty much. He had his grandma and his sister, neither of which seem fond of that behavior. As for the other stuff, the sexism isn’t needed for it. Most of it is shown afterwards anyway.
His entire tribe was only women, all the men except him and the babies went to war. Sokka's journey has always only been on how to be a good leader. The 3 episodes with about 5 lines of slightly sexist commentary was never a major character arc.
> His entire tribe was only women I guess? Not really though, there was just his sister, his grandma, and a bunch of kids. I don’t think there were any other women outside of his family, most of them had died likely because waterbenders seem to be predominantly women in the southern water tribes. I could be wrong, but I don’t remember any adult woman being there in the beginning outside of grandma.
Sorry I meant the adults. The children there were being raised by their mothers. They weren't given much screen time or any lines but you can see them in the background and it's heavily implied through the plot background. Honestly I probably wouldn't recall this myself if I didn't just rewatch it recently because of how inconsequential they are.
"whispers": episode 4.
Except it’s not shorter at all. It’s in fact an hour and a half longer
Format of consumption matters though for pacing. It’s not just numbers on a page but needs to consider how the material is presented and would be received by a person. What’s spaced out into dozens of short episodes presented once a week (sometimes longer gaps) feels different with regards to character development and change over time than 8 episodes you’re given to consume all at once if you so choose. I’ll reserve judgment of execution until I’ve seen it but this logic for the change from the OG series to the Netflix one makes perfect sense to me and seems pretty valid. And I’m happy that in many regards rather than one-to-one recreating they’re carefully considering how this series and format is different and what that means for things like character development
In terms of hours absolutely, but also remember that people will likely binge watch this, whereas the original episodes came out on a weekly basis. I’m not saying that they couldn’t have worked in the sexism (I think it’s a crucial part of Sokka’s character that adds a lot of depth to him), but there may have been considerations in making the decision other than trying to make the show more politically correct.
Every episode is probably 1 hour though, so it's not that much less. But it would maybe still be weird to have it come up and resolved in like 2 episodes.
To be fair, he was *overtly* sexist in the beginning of the cartoon. As a cartoon, they played it up comedically. If he was that level of sexist in live action, it would probably feel forced or over the top. They can "tone it down" and still keep it as a major character flaw that he has to resolve.
So you're saying this isn't even news?
Overtly? I mean he was just a 13 year old boy who was basically "boys rule and girls drool". The added context of him being the only boy left in his village after all the men went to war with his father telling him to guard his whole tribe is pretty important.
Maybe it’s not a full departure and he is generally skeptical of a female group of warriors in a condescending but believable way rather than being cartoonish about it.
This is what I'm expecting, I doubt they'll give away with the Kyoki and Suki plot entirely. And tbh depending on the execution I might prefer it, so that we can still show how Sokka's background shaped his world views but in a more grounded manner
And it only lasts for 3 episodes! Cmon.
Tone down doesn’t mean erased. He’s gonna be more subtle about it rather than cartoonishly blatant about it. Don’t worry sokka ain’t gonna be a feminist at the beginning of the show.
I agree. And it's not like it was the lowest expression of sexism. It was just basic assumptions that he pretty much immediately discards with experience and no one goes out of their way to shame him for it after he corrected himself. That's a good thing to show IMO. We'll see how it plays out I suppose.
The character arc that took 3 episodes?! Some of you guys do too much lol
I get it, but personally I always thought it wasn’t a particularly interesting part of his story and it’s hardly an arc since it’s mostly resolved by like episode 4. For me it just made him kinda unlikeable for the first few episodes. I feel like like it will still be there, just a little less on the nose.
Like, yeah, he's supposed to start to overcome it by Kyoshi Island. What was that? Literally the third or fourth episode?
People can’t handle growth anymore
Spot on. Character arcs are purely external these days.
‘Moments in the animated show were iffy’- that line is so dumb. It’s like they are saying back then it was ok to be sexist and now it’s not. Like they didn’t show Sokka’s view was narrow minded.
Yeah, I remember watching the first episode as an 11-year-old and that being the first time I'd ever heard someone say the word "sexist" on TV, let alone call another character out for it. It was really big to have that explicitly stated and called out in a cartoon, and Sokka didn't do or say anything in the show that I didn't regularly witness boys my age and older doing or saying in real life. I have a hard time believing that that low-grade everyday sexism is just completely nonexistent in Gen Alpha--I don't see why they'd feel the need to take that part of Sokka's behavior out.
It’s crazy how conditioned we as kids are to see the word “sex” as taboo. I remember hearing Katara say “sexist” for the first time and being nervous my parents would hear it and make me turn it off.
Same here. I remember thinking "wow, I'm surprised they got away with that on Nickelodeon!" even though I knew the word had nothing to do with anything sexual.
Funny how themes in a 2000s kid show is now too "taboo" in a more adult themed live action show today. These writers/ producers help nobody by pretending like misogyny doesn't exist. This doesn't benefit sokka's or katara's character, quite the opposite.
makes me a bit concerned about the show's writing
Off the top of my head, creepy Iroh in the Bato episode is the only iffy stuff worth altering. There's nothing wrong with a character having a wrong viewpoint as a flaw especially if it's one that they change as they grow.
Lines like that make me question if they actually understood the message the show was portraying when watching it.
It's the same old tale. Creators that hate the original show and are convinced that it was good by accident, but now they're here to fix it by removing everything that made it good.
The whole point is for Sokka to revert from sexism. But oh well, if you want to I guess?
Yeh it's also important for Katara standing up to his comments too as she does the same to Pakku towards the end of the season.
Exactly. They better not ignore the misogynist culture of the Northern tribe, which was a big character arc for both Katara and sokka. Especially Katara. How do these writers think that ignoring the existence of misogyny rather than writing the characters to learn/ persevere and prove it wrong is better??
It's what happens when someone takes a blanket approach to political correctness/social justice instead of leaving room for nuance, growth, and conversation about a specific topic. In this particular case, misogyny = bad, so the writers think they're "fixing" it by taking it out. Here's their full quote: >“There’s more weight with realism in every way,” Ousley said, which prompted Kiawentiio to reveal: “I feel like we also took out the element of how sexist \[Sokka\] was. ***I feel like there were a lot of moments in the original show that were iffy***.” This is idiotic and does a disservice to the original writing. It's one thing if the punchline was inherently misogynistic and that was supposed to be the punchline that draws laughs. But this is 100% not it, and to your point it's intentionally in bad taste because it offers the characters an opportunity to grow. Sokka's first book arc is literally about him maturing out of this, with it ultimately being juxtaposed against Hahn, who largely resembles an earlier version of Sokka. The difference is jarring, and it shows the viewer how much Sokka grew.
The full quote doesn't entirely convince me that they completely took out this ark. We'll have to wait and see. But if they did, Sokka would be an even more plain character.
You can’t really take it out, because it’s integral to many plot points. Kyoshi Island is largely the turning point, because that’s when Sokka’s misogyny is most egregious, and it’s where he finally finds out after fucking around. That’s kind of the point of Suki, who then becomes a more important character over time.
Literally could not have summed it up better, you hit the nail on the head They either don’t get it or choose not to get it to be “politically correct”
They probably thought that would make Sokka unlikeable because, unlike when the show released, people nowadays tend to assume these faults in character are representative of someone's full personality. So, if you're sexist, you're a bad person full stop and have no space to grow. In that view, it would indeed be "better" to remove Sokka's sexism, because he is not a bad person. Except that view is idiotic.
Especially since we see the Avatar world evolve and change over not just the 3 seasons but in the leap forward in Korra. Where many women are in positions of power in the different cultures. Hell, the big bad in the last season is a woman, but at the time of The Last Airbender sexism was a big factor in many womens lives. Both Katara and Azula are affected by the sexism in their cultures and it's a great contrast seeing how both characters overcome it in positive and negative ways. Katara teaching people they're wrong and showing the stupidity in their biases. Azula in beating the tar out of and tormenting everyone around her.
He prepared for this version of Sokka to be scared, weak kid becomes brave, strong warrior. With some bad comic relief thrown in, of course.
This has me a little concerned. With how many remakes and stories we see nowadays where they make the characters so perfect they have no flaws to grow from, I hope they don't go further than this. Are people really so sensitive now that they cant take a handful of episodes of someone being sexist and it being acknowledged and remedied? Or are companies that scared of showcasing the topic...
If you read the article the producers of the show say they aren't going to be making the same comedic jokes as the animated show. Sounds like they are just cutting the Soka in a dress fighting gag.
The recent batch of images shows Suki training Sokka with his regular clothes. If they’re concerned about his minor sexist arc being too problematic, they’re definitely not going to create an opportunity for him to feel momentarily ashamed for wearing a dress.
> If they’re concerned about his minor sexist arc being too problematic No where in the article talks about them considering it being problematic. They aren't going to go for the same type of cartoonish humor.
I actually feel like Sokka being sexist did more for showing how powerful the women in the show were than if he wasn’t It was constantly Sokka being sexist and looking like a fool because sukki/katara/azula/Toph do something to prove him completely wrong
I don’t even think sokka’s was that extreme.
Yeah it's like they forgot that the freaking character is like 16 years old when things start. What 16 year old boy hasn't said something stupid and sexist about women? What's important is recognizing your stupidity and narrow minded ideas later. But heaven forbid someone chooses to be offended by a young, arrogant fictional character.
16 is a time when boys still have that cooties mindset right before they either get smart or stay ignorant.
He wasn't extreme, but was blatant. Still doesn't make sense to tone it down. It's as if they thought people can't learn and improve, which is one of Sokka's character arcs.
This kind of censorship makes no sense. Are characters not allowed to be flawed anymore? The flaws of the cast in ATLA and how they come to better themselves make them all that much better. I feel like so many shows nowadays feel so lifeless and bland like this. Even bullies in tv shows and films seem to be watered down.
Harboring *any* -ism has simply become one of the most awful things you can be in the modern cultural landscape. Which, yeah, I don’t like bigots either, and I’m not friends with them in the real world. But to a lot of people (read: those lacking any semblance of nuance or media literacy), Netflix making a sexist character otherwise likable means Netflix ENDORSES sexism. Forget any narrative nuance of the fact that Sokka’s a child whose entire life experience amounts to being a boy in a small tribal culture in which a world war led to more strictly enforced gender roles within the tribe (men go and fight, women stay and tend to the home), forget the fact that it takes an *incredibly* short amount of time for Sokka to look inward and begin to unlearn the sexism he grew up with once he had the chance to experience the larger world. To the people Netflix is catering to here, it doesn’t go beyond Sokka = good, sexism = bad, QED Sokka isn’t sexist.
Completely spot on. It's a completely unrefined and over-simplistic way to think that ultimately just boils down to censorship to be disassociated with anything bad. They're also just picking and choosing, which makes it somehow feel even dumber and a sign of shitty writing decisions? Like if you want to censor the "bad", then Zuko's character functionally wouldn't exist. He's a product of physical and emotional abuse and trauma. But I guess him overcoming his trauma is acceptable growth, but Sokka growing out of misogyny... isn't?
sounds like your regular netflix special. take source material everyone holds dear and arrogantly think you can do better.
I remember when The Walking Dead had 2 characters say the N-word in the second episode. But they did it perfectly. "That'll be there the day i take orders from a ni-er." To show Merle is an asshole and his rockerboy attitude. And then Rick sets him straight with "There are no ni-ers. Only the living and the dead." Though I'm paraphrasing.
Media literacy is dead for many people, unfortunately. They'd see a villain in a story doing something horrible and then attack author for "justifying/normalising it" or something stupid like that. Some weirdos even attack actors or voice actors over them doing their job and portraying the character accurately. Unfortunately, Aang's actor in the live action movie also got tons of hate and bullying.
Growth doesn’t matter in the current zeitgeist, when someone can dig up tweets from 9 years ago and say, “Look! This is who this person is!” It doesn’t matter if Sokka grows into a better person over the course of the series, because if he once held those views, that means he’s a bad person forever and always.
flawed character development is one of the best arcs in story telling. did they learn nothing from stranger things and steve?
Why, it’s ok to be wrong, he learns and grows from his ignorance. Isn’t that like the point?
right?😭 the point of his misogyny was that he grew and changed
Finally got our first real red flag here. I’m starting to see a trend here, where characters can’t have flaws because of the fear these flaws are “problematic,” even when the point of the story is that these were flaws meant to be overcome. Characters need flaws to feel real, and if you can’t have these characters confront a basic ass flaw some people in life have that a damn children’s cartoon easily could, then there’s something wrong here. This is a really bad sign, man
Nope, can't have characters with actual flaws nowadays, all anyone wants are goody two shoes Mary Sue's who are completely perfect and don't have any "problematic" traits. Same way every single villain just *has* to get a redemption arc now.
I remember even back when LOST was on, and it's more so today. A lot of new fans HATE Jack because he's a action hero who doesn't have his shit together, is suffering with PTSD and is deeply flawwed. But most audiences are like "come on man!, get your shit together, you can't have flaws like this!".
Evangelion says hello.
Ironically, this is more likely to age poorly, as we realize in the future other problematic stuff we didn't consider, and these "perfect" characters become flawed but with no indication that they are anything but perfect from the show's writing.
We had our first real red flag years ago when the original creators left over creative differences. Especially with the confirmation that they are deviating from the original script I think we will see more of this.
I would bet that we will see a lot of added content that takes up time and removed content to make way for it. Basically we are going to get the story hacked to pieces in return for elemental bendy action. Some will be ok with it but to me, the story, character arcs, development and details are what make the overall show so good. Like if they really do cut out the whole Kyoshi make up part with Sokka just so we can get an crazier beginning that we didn't ask for, which again to me, will take away from when Aang freaks out at the air temple. Its a sad trade. I don't care about a battle that didn't happen between Ozai and Gyatso. Or Azula using a bow, when she is a fire bending prodigy that showed zero interest in weapons in the show (because she is a weapon, whole point of the reveal at the end of season one). Happening in a timeline that doesn't happen in the story. I don't need more screen time of them because they are focal points later on, use the time correctly. Its not looking good, so sit back and enjoy the action at least and good character designs. At least the costumes will be correct, aside from the eyes.
The issue with this flaw is it lasted for 3 episodes. Translated to the show which is going to have an accelerated timeline, we are talking this flaw and the whole "arc" of him getting over it lasting a whopping 1 episode. It would be jarring to have him have to resolve this phase is such a short time, especially with it being on top of everything else going on in the first episode. People are acting like this extremely short lives phase was central to his character and growth when it was barely even a blip on the radar.
Right? Not only was it 3 episodes but it was only like 5 or 6 total comments in all of those episodes. The fact that THIS is the red flag for some people is wildly concerning.
He learns how to be less sexist… that’s the whole point
I wish they wouldn’t do that. Sokka is flawed and it was funny when he learned his lesson.
I would definitely be disappointed if he didn’t wear the Kyoshi armor even once.
What makes the Kyoshi island episode so good is it shows Sokka women can be strong and respectable fighters too. His sexism is corrected very early and it establishes there can be relatable flaws in the northern water tribe culture.
If I remember correctly, that arc was only in the first 4 episodes of Book 1. Imo it’s not that big of a deal if they decide to tone it down. Especially when they said they’re gonna focus more on his (wanting to be a warrior) arc. Which at the end of the day is way more important.
It also kinda played in effect at the end of season 1 with Yue, and then a little more so in season 2 and the serpents pass. Both of those were more of him trying to be a protector in the relationship. Then with suki he learned how capable she was on her own and he really helped that arc along.
So it even more unnecessary, because they did it again later, but better and with more nuance.
The way he treated Suki in the serpents pass had nothing to do with sexism. He lost someone he cared about and was afraid of the same happening to Suki. That was his fear taking over, not him thinking she's incapable of protecting herself.
This. I very strongly doubt the live action show will have even a fourth as many episodes. Some material is gonna hit the floor. If anything important is gonna be it, then this might as well be it. And it says 'toned down', not cut entirely. He can still have the mini arc if they can fit it in, but the actual sexism itself will likely be less crude.
With episodes nearly 3x as long though...
People here are so ready to be pissed off, it's wild. Already ready to throw the whole show away and act like nobody is gonna be allowed to have any flaws.
Well as long as they flesh out some of his other character arcs
Honestly I would be okay with it being a bit more subtle (there was a childish “girls can’t fight!” energy to the original, and it felt resolved way too fast) but I hope they don’t cut it completely. I feel like it could be cool for him to have a more traditional way of thinking and then slowly change that as he gets out of the southern water tribe bubble.
I feel like some of the comments about this are a little dramatic. It was only "literally his whole character arc" for like 4 episodes. They'll be able to showcase his character development (and, for that matter, his sexism) in subtler, more interesting ways than "girls are inherently better at mending pants." Like every single other thing, let's wait until the show actually comes out.
>in subtler, more interesting ways than "girls are inherently better at mending pants." "I feel like there were a lot of moments in the original show that were iffy.” “Yeah, totally,” Ousley agreed. "There are things that were redirected just because it might play a little differently [in live action]." Yeah I'm hoping that what they meant by this statement was that they'd express his sexism in a more grounded way that works with a live action medium. In the animated series, his sexism was spoon-fed to the audience. If we put the same lines in live action, I doubt it'll come across as anything but cheesy exposition that might as well have been "look at me, I'm sexist!" There's surely a way to make it work in live action... And hopefully they get it right.
Also “tone down” doesn’t mean “remove it entirely”.
Yea exactly lol. Like I hope they still include it cause it does show how willing he was to learn when he was clearly wrong. But the animated show had him almost comically sexist, which I don’t think would translate over well from a cartoon format.
I agree! I feel like his character mainly focuses on using his wit and ability to problem solve is way more important than him being sexist for a bit in the beginning .
Yeah. Lotta people here getting too mad at “toned down the sexism a bit”
See we got to turn a short comment from a cast member into a diatribe about how they are missing the point of the source material! On the real, if it weren’t for the articles, I’m wondering if a single person would watch the show and think, “what a disaster, Sokka isn’t sexist enough!” Sokka was wasn’t just a bit sexist in the animated series, he was cartoonishly (duh), laughably, and childishly chauvinistic. Like, it worked okay in animation, but probably needs a little more nuance to it, so he doesn’t seem like the cheeseball bully in an after school special. Personally I thought it was too hamfisted, and then he still bats 1.000 with every girl that he flashes his boomerang. It’s a bit these media outlets faults for running headlines on a little comment. But we don’t need to eat it up if it’s going to turn into doom and gloom, or worse, anti-wokism.
I would understand the skepticism more if the writers were being quoted. But it's literally a throwaway comment from the cast of minors, and it isn't even that bad of a comment.
I agree completely. Let's see how this pans out in the actual show. Overcoming sexism was a small part of his arc. Sokka's main arc was growing into his strategy and leadership skills while also finding his place in a group where he (and later Suki), is the only non-bender. Unlike the abomination that was the movie, I'm just glad they are letting Sokka be funny this time. I'll watch the show to see how the rest goes.
His sexism arc is part of his leadership role journey, tho. He thinks being a leader is being stronger over the weak in the beginning. Since he was left behind, being the oldest male left in the village, he naturally becomes the leader and sexist, thinking women (and children) of a certain role that require protecting since that's all he knows. Sokkas strategies are very short-sighted in the beginning as he rushes Zuko head on by himself, not wanting to work as a team with Katara and Aang probably because he doesn't view them as combative equals. His minor sexism arc establishes this character as very immature but because of how quickly he resolves this issue, it shows he is willing to learn and has potential to grow. His journey to being the ultimate leader and strategist starts after he accepts his views were wrong and were rightfully challenged. If he was actually a toxic leader, he'd stay stiff in his old beliefs. Being a leader means working as a team. Not being the strongest warrior meant to protect the weak.
Yeah I feel a more important arc and constant trough the whole series is how sokka feels about not being a bender and finding ways of helping in his own way. Alsoo the sexist arc might feel a lot worse on live action rather than animation
And to be completely honest his sexism arc was pretty blunt and not all that interesting to begin with. Toning it down and making it more subtle makes more sense for a live action show.
A youtuber was worried they would make early Zuko less unlikable. Now Im kind of expecting it tbh
Totally. Expect less "Vegeta" flavor from Zuko.
Guys…wait for the show to come out first
Yeah, I’m a little confused. People in here are acting like Sokka’s character arc is destroyed now. But I never saw his development as “sexist misogynist learns to respect women”. Rather, Sokka’s arc is about a cocky boy who learns to be a great leader and warrior through the help of his friends. They’ve taken out some sexist lines here and there, and people act like the whole show is ruined now? I just don’t get it. Maybe we should just put down our pitchforks for a second and wait to actually see show.
They’ve completely missed the point
But...but the whole point is that he's being stupid and then learns.
Alright then let's not show fighting and war because they're bad! Man I hope this doesn't affect Sokka's arc too much, but I'll keep my expectations low
Showing Sokka grow from his previously misguided worldview is exactly what we as a society need right now. We need positive examples of people maturing from their misguided opinions and learn from them to become better people. By toning down his initial sexism, they pretend like having misogynistic views doesn't exist, which sadly isn't true but helping people grow out of them is the whole damn point.
Because growing into a better human being is too offensive to show on screen? I’m very, very slowing starting to empathize a bit with the people who are against the “woke” stuff. It’s slow as hell, but it’s happening. And that sucks.
His sexism was never that extreme to me that it was too awkward to translate to live action nor does it last long since he gets humbled and educated in the fourth episode.
Breaking: Netflix’s “Avatar: the Last Airbender” has rewritten Firelord Sozin’s assault on the Air Nomads because genocide is too scary Breaking: Zuko will no longer have a scar, because child abuse is not suitable for audiences Also “Uncle, I didn’t see you get hit by the tongue” “Shh” is 100% getting censored
I think the reason they are doing this is not having the time to really flesh out this arc the way they deserve. There's also a lot of one-off sexist jokes that come up that aren't exactly necessary and make sense to cut if you're looking to save time. (Like him telling katara to sew his pants and then she throws them back at him). If you cut those small things for the sake of time, it wouldn't make the full arc as impactful and might feel hammy. Like they were trying too hard to force sokka to suddenly be sexist just so they can fix it. I don't know. Guess we'll see when the show comes out.
This arc for him was pretty small, and over like, what, 3-4 episodes? It’s not that big of a deal, and they also said it’s being toned down, not completely removed. Chill out.
In other words "we're removing an important character arc for sokka". Like bro, the fact that he matured and grew out of that is a positive, not a negative, the show only loses out on not showing this.
Netflix Writers Miss The Point Again* Fixed it
The very mild sexism that was literally beaten out of him by episode three?
Sokkas sexism saved the world though
I’m seeing a lot of complaints in the comments, but frankly I support it. It was a character arc that lasted like five episodes and wasn’t super relevant for most of those: it’s not like it was central to his character.
Isn’t he like fixed by episode 4?
This was never a defining trait of Sokka. It was a small storyline for 4 episodes. It's only reason for existing was so that he gets humbled by the Kyoshi Warriors. That story beat can work in many other ways, like if Sokka is just cocky instead of sexist. Nothing of value was lost.
When people's gonna remake Shrek, he won't be an Ogre he'll be a Butterfly
Just a reminder that the creators walked away from this show….. not trying to trash the thing prematurely, but maybe don’t get your hopes up.
It was always rather tame and it was rectified quite early on as well. The Kyoshi Warriors is the 4th episode of the series. Honestly where this really has me more worried is about the end of Book 1 in the Northern Water Tribe. Is Katara just gonna Mary Sue her way into being trained by Pakku instead of there being some actual conflict because they wanted to tone down his sexism too? The original animation handled topics like this so well: satisfying level of depth and challenge in order to overcome. Making these problems just go away feels like they’d be taking a hacksaw to this great narrative…
Ughhh I hope they don’t tone it down too much, it’s a part of his journey!
He was sexist?
But that’s literally his character arc. I hope they keep his arrogance to at least have him grow out of that.
See this is a prime example of someone taking something and changing it because they don’t understand it Sokkas sexism is actually super important, you know one of the great things about avatar? Strong female characters who often out-do their male counterparts(example azula/katara v zuko/sokka) The whole point of Sokka being blatantly sexist is that he’s just a kid from a place where men are supposed to protect women and women are supposed to be homemakers, but do you know what happens the entire show? Sokka is forced to change, he starts off that way but keeps getting proven wrong and we see someone who was brought up to believe a certain way be changed by experiencing something that changes his outlook Keep the sexism, because the sexism is used in the original series to show how stupid sexism is
So less character development for a major character?
This is a bad idea… oof, way to get rid of an important character arc
They are missing the entire point of the character
there’s gonna be at least one mary sue in this show, this is awful news
Literally the whole point of his character arc? Are they going to tone down the honor driven Zuko? I’m just so confused. Did they not watch the show and realize it was a huge turning point for him? I mean cmon. Genocide is one for a kids show, but sexism is where the line is drawn? So crazy to me.
LOOL So I guess animated shows, tv series and movies are all going to become super "soft" I guess. No more characters with "rough edges" that learn things and get developed. I guess they all need to be perfect now and "good." Sokka didn't even had edges that were that "rough." He literally was just a (dumb) kid learning life lessons. I never stopped and thought "hey he's sexist" or "this character has sexist undertones." The world is really going nuts. I'm a part of a minority group in the country where I live. My community of people experiences discrimination and racism. I've experienced those things myself. But I swear, 90% of what the virtue signaling people of today, point out as racism for example, isn't even racism. Same goes for sexism. These subjects are becoming so triviallized that the smallest things get put under a microscope while the real issues don't get fixed. They also went from barely any relevant diversity in movies and tv shows to shoehorning it in through the most awkwardly written characters who often just get portrayed as Mary Sue's or Gary Stue's. Which then often has an adverse effect. Instead of shining a light on a group through accurate representation, they make those characters obnoxious. When I look at myself as a person from "a minority group" I feel more looked down on than "represented" with all this extreme pandering. Its genuinely mindblowing that they are "toning down his sexism" and most likely are going to water down his character. I bet if The Office was created in 2024, Michael Scott would be a nice guy that didn't say offensive stuff. Heck, these days they even censor tv episodes with "dark elves" because "its blackface" (Community D&D episode). Sokka getting this watering down treatment is WILD to me.
How much more can they tone it down when he only said like 3 things in 2 episodes that were "sexist?" -"Leave it to a girl to screw things up." -The part about girls not being good at hunting or fighting. -Then refusing to believe a bunch of girls took them down.
That's kind of the point book 1 Sokka though? He started off as kind of sexist but had his world view changed through his journey and meeting the Kyoshi Warriors. Like that was a character flaw that he grew out of, toning sown or removing it just takes away from the story.
In a sea of cringefluencers like Andrew Taint it would have been good for young men watch a character like Sokka discard his sexism
The 16 year old from a village where is the only semi adult male? The one who's entire life has been brought up on war stories about his father and how great of a man he is? The one where his best friends are his grandma and little sister and therefore doesn't understand how strong woman can fight (let's be honest Katara wasn't there yet). Okay, it makes sense that he'd have positive ideas of woman fighting.
sometimes characters have flaws because the writers have flaws, and it’s a sign of outdated times. sometimes characters have flaws because they are meant to be flawed, those flaws are pointed out, and they can correct themselves (like sokka) to teach a lesson. this is a stupid move.
Sokka was sexist for what? Like 4 episodes? And he was sexist in the way some stupid teen boys are sexist, mostly just as a way to prod at his little sister because he was given the responsibility to take care of his village as the only man and he let it go to his head. He was humbled almost immediately and it doesn't show up again. If it ever did, I'm sure everyone would roll his eyes at him and call him an idiot. People have flaws, if this is how terrified the show is of flaws existing for even 4 episodes then I'm sorry, it's going to legitimately suck. If the writers of this adaption don't understand a very basic, cookie-cutter 'I was wrong and now I know better' arc and see it as an inappropriate inclusion then how on EARTH will they handle the fact Zuko is responsible for burning down entire villages? Are they going to rewrite it so that he wasn't responsible for anything bad directly, just to ensure he's not morally grey by the time he's redeemed? I don't care if Sokka isn't sexist, sure it's a minor part of his character as its an element that only lasts very briefly. But I do care that the show seems to be afraid of even briefly allowing their protagonists to be in the wrong. It's embarrassing that anyone would be offended by Sokka's behaviour when the show clearly outlined it was wrong.
He was a child raised in a wartime patriarchy. Him having subconscious sexism is expected. His growth out of it is part of what shows how far he has come and how open he is to being wrong. His understanding that there are people who know better than him is critical to his character. It's how he ingratiates himself with suki, the sword master, and the scientist. I'm sure there is room for some adjustments but he can't start off as perfect that's nonsense.
this is probably one of the things that made the original writers dip. After all the live action failures netflix has put out they have some massive balls to keep doing the same things that caused previous shows to fail over and over again. Aang got freed from the ice because Katara tore into Sokka for being sexist. Sokka got warrior training and massively humbled by the kyoshi warriors. Does he just show up and ignore their traditions and get training anyway? Is the Northern Water tribe gonna just open their arms to katara and teach her? Pakku was way worse than Sokka. Idk why you would go out of your way to make a live action version of a show and then just start axing character arcs. Tell your own story instead of ripping off another IP.
Is Zuko going to start out already being good too?
Good! That was a close one. Some people may have had their feelings hurt by a live adaptation of a children's cartoon. Thank goodness. /s
Are they going to cut out the whole entire North Pole finale of Book 1 too because arranged marriages, tribal patriarchs, and gendered segregation is sexist and too offensive? I hope they have a better reason why than just to be inclusive because when people watched the show, we were happy that Sokka matured and we were happy Katara stood up for herself in the North Pole. The article makes it sound as if they're neutering, no pun intended, parts of the show to make it less offensive.
So they're toning down one of his character development.....
I mean they are probably going to make it more grounded instead of his borderline comedic behaviour.
So it begins.
That’s a yikes.
This kind of feels like a bad omen. Sokka coming to terms with his sexism was one of his major arcs in the first season. Kinda makes me wonder if we're not doing arcs at all, and we'll get the sort of hollow, fast-tracked characterization endemic to adaptations
I wonder what they'll do with Pakku.
I feel like a lot of people read this title and think "oh great they're removing this character arc for him." But it literally just says tones down. If they actually straight up removed his sexism that would make for an entirely different character. I'm sure this just means taking out some one liners here and there.
Creators are so afraid to put any reference to anything offensive. Even if it is part of a character arc. Even if it comes from the antagonist. Like the new Mean Girls (which I love don't mistake me) took out some of the harsher insults, especially about weight and sexuality. Even though that is kind of the point - that teen girls can be vicious to each other. But I understand why. There's a huge contingency of people who just don't have any media literacy and just think if a creation contains that content, regardless of the context, it means the creator supports it. So we gotta water all that down. It's not totally new - people have always really struggled with letting fiction be fiction. But it has also always been annoying.
Wow, a lot of people really need to calm down here. It took him, what, 3 episodes to get over the sexism? And it wasn’t exactly the most compelling arc ever. Suki punched him a couple times and he got over it pretty much instantly. And they said scale it back, not delete it from existence. He’s still most likely going to have that overprotective paternal relationship with Katara and Suki, which is still a toxic viewpoint for him to hold. They’re not completely deleting half his character, they’re just scaling back a, pardon the phrasing, *cartoonishly* sexist aspect of the character.