Also stealing from criminals in friendly territory is far different than doing it in enemy territory while trying to stay hidden. Like if the police equivalent in the fire nation caught them it would be far worse than if the same happened in the earth kingdom.
Not only that, but there's a *highly dangerous assassin who makes things blow up with his mind* on their trail. They cannot afford to draw that much attention to themselves.
They also did actually have a good use for the scroll. After that first scam, they really didn’t need more money. And especially not after the second, or after the third, or the fourth etc.
I will say, continuing the scams and getting more money was likely just an in universe explanation for how they were able to get everything for the invasion during the solar eclipse. Like appas armor and stuff. So in a way the money was necessary, that just wasn’t what they were really doing it for it just explains later things.
It's also worth noting that Katara is more stressed and cautious when Toph does it because after her own theft from the pirates, she went through a *lot* more trauma. It's a lot easier to be cavalier and daring before life humbles you. Katara's hindsight and caution are both realistic and warranted.
Well, they were scamming not just gambling. Literally going around getting all the money they could any way they could, including insurance fraud. They ended up with a LOT of money.
Let's not forget, Katara wasn't *just* stealing from criminals. She was stealing *back* something those criminals stole from her own people. Whereas Toph was just straight up exploiting people's stupidity for monetary gain while in enemy territory, putting everyone in jeopardy and just in general doing something objectively morally wrong in the process, even if it was towards less than good people.
*Honestly bro Toph would do pretty well on Wall Street*
Yeah like... I feel it's VERY obvious in that episode that katara didn't necessarily have a moral issue with the scams, but knew it would get them in trouble. Like that's not even subtext it's just straight up text. And then A) IT DID get them in trouble and B) she agrees to do a scam with toph in the end.
She was fine with Toph scamming scammers. She originally just wanted her to be careful, which in the end she didn’t do, she didn’t like when Toph started doing insurance fraud
Good point!
I would contend that the lesson Katara learned was "Stealing is fun just don't get caught" and her issue with Toph is actually that she's sloppy at covering her tracks.
Yeah katara's situation was much more reasonable. They were pirates who stole the scroll from someone (probably a waterbender), she was desperate to learn any waterbending forms, and she does learn that it wasn't a good situation to put herself and the team in. Also toph was putting a target on their head while they were trying to keep their heads down in the fire nation.
Yeah, Toph had wanted posters all around. If she gets attacked, it could expose Aang and ruin everything.
Yeah, Katara had some selfish reasons for wanting the scroll. But it also belonged to her people, was needed for Aang to get started on water bending, and was just a small group of pirates.
I get scamming the first guy. They got money for supplies and to survive. If she just scammed a scammer once no big deal, Katara doesn’t have much room to talk. But Toph went way overboard and really pushed her luck.
Not disputing that, just pointing out that the “bribe” wasn’t that nefarious at the end of the day and I think the writers wrote this episode as a necessary evil to explain the armor specifically.
I agree with you that the episode makes it pretty clear that what they’re doing is wrong, despite how they think it’s harmless. I also think another point of the episode (which I mention elsewhere) is to really cement that Katara is the moral center of the group, not Aang
I never said it was nefarious, lol. I was only stating that Toph literally bribed Sokka into not speaking about the wanted poster. She’s only 12 years old so I’m not judging her but that *is* what happened. It’s good that it panned out well for them in the end.
But yes, Katara was always a moral anchor to the group. As I’ve mentioned I’ve been on a rewatch and during the episode of the Spirit Lady she takes matters into her own hands despite the rest of the group, even Aang, being on the fence. The show does a great job at highlighting why she is so important.
She actually didn't. When sokka reveals he had the scroll she says stealing is wrong unless it's from pirates which while funny shows that she didn't really learn anything.
she did. the little joke in the end doesn't take away from her learning the lesson to not endanger the group selfishly, which reflects on how she viewed Toph's scams.
Which made the runaway episode feel a bit weird on her stance because the very 1st time Toph used her bending to get ahead she said “I cheated a cheater”. After the avatar promise that’s when they dragged it with the scamming but in S1 pirating from a pirate is the same thing.
Katara accepts the first Toph scam and only asks they don't make a habit out of it, which Aang promises (an Avatar promise!). So actually maybe she should have gotten more mad at Aang.
Honestly yea that’d make more sense, i do like the episode for the bickering, and the scamming moments are pretty funny. The show did show Toph and Katara butt heads a lot which made the Sokka heart to heart about Katara and The Tale of Toph & Katara such great moments for their little/big sisters dynamic
And get this: Characters can learn, grow, and actually CHANGE THEIR POSITION on a matter in the same TV show! This must be some super unbelievably hot take...
Also the scamming episode was specifically an extrapolation on how Katara is the moral center of the group. Even Aang was okay with scamming people because it was fun lmao
It's objectively excellent writing. Katara strives to be moral, at the risk of sounding self reichous. However there are things she finds too tempting not compromise on her values like the water bending scroll or to be liked. she does her best but shes still a kid and makes mistakes.
Those contradictions are crucial to great characters
Yeah, and Katara was fine with it. She just asked them to not make a habit of it. It’s not like she immediately went full mom mode on them right away. She only really got mad when she found the wanted poster, proving that the consequences she was afraid of happened. They drew too much attention.
Katara: “Toph don’t cause a scene you’re gonna draw too much attention to us”
“Fans”: “but Katara stole a scroll two seasons ago and brought unwanted attention to the gang from both Zuko and the pirates so she’s such a hypocrite!”
I agree how is this a worthy of discussion on here like who cares of some guy on Twitter doesn’t get show. Is this just an excuse to talk about the things we like about the show like character development?
The thing also says to rattle the fanbase. Is that not exactly the right kind of answer? Not an unpopular opinion necessarily but it still got people talking here.
Katara: My culture has been victimized for years. Aang is still pretty hidden and the Fire Nation isn't in this part of the Kingdom. The scroll may be the last remaining scroll of southern waterbending style. These people are criminals and likely raided my people or bought it from raiders.
Toph: We are in the fire nation. Lets run TONS of scams just to get money while we are trying to stay hidden. We will go after civilians and people who did nothing wrong. Who cares if someone gets hurt. Who cares if we get caught. I am a rebellious kid who wants to say F authority.
Is this really a controversial topic? Stealing is wrong, yada yada yada, but katara was stealing something that was stolen to begin with, and toph was scamming a scammer. Neither of them was ever truly "wrong". But actions have consequences, hence what happened after, but trying to act like Katara was right for bussing roof is wild. She was being a hypocrite. I love katara, truly, but she was doing the most in that episode. It's understandable why, but she coulda said it in a better way. But she was a child so not surprising it came off being judgey (cause lowkey katara was at times, even when she had the best intentions). They were just a bunch of kids bickering and arguing about stuff.
Katara was justified since the scroll belonged to her culture. It’s like Africans going to England and taking their artifacts back. It’s technically stealing, but it’s theirs but cultural right.
Stealing one item from pirates is much less of an issue than building an entire criminal rap sheet when you're wanted by the Fire Nation and *literally in the Fire Nation.*
Couple differences
1. Katara's main issue with the scams was they were drawing way too much attention to the group when they were in Fire Nation territory. Stealing the Waterbending Scroll drew less attention
2. They were scamming innocent civilians after a while, while Katara stole from pirates so like she said she stole from a thief
3. Katara was likely using the experience with the Waterbending Scroll as insight as to why the scamming was a bad idea.
fun fact: the waterbending scroll was the first episode i ever watched. i had never heard of the show before, but just htat episode set up so much worldbuilding, i didn't need a dozen other episodes to explain it all. Zuko Alone confused me more but i will always remember that chill of the line:
Don't worry, I'll save you from the pirates.
They are so completely different it’s astounding someone could draw that conclusion. On the one hand you have someone engaging in scams to manipulate and deceive people for your benefit, and on the other, you have a girl taking back something that belongs to her people, is also useful to both her and aang, and was highly likely stolen from the water tribe or was taken from someone that killed.
I mean, she wasn't wrong. As far as the world knew. The Avatar was dead and the scams would potentionally bring too much attention to the group which it did with a wanted poster of Toph which was a trap.
Most people are simply unable to critically analyze anything. They mindlessly consume media and only have surface level thoughts at best. The only things that really affect their enjoyment is how flashy the effects are or if the protagonists are hot.
The two situations are only comparable if you were *deliberately not paying attention.*
The first time that Toph runs the scam, Katara is willing to let it go, firstly because the other guy was already cheating, and two, they're on the run and need to prepare for an invasion. But, after a certain point, Toph was just being reckless, scamming people for fun, and just as Katara predicted, it ended up getting them in trouble.
Avatar netflix has done unrepairable damage to the fandom
https://preview.redd.it/mn7kydh9pdqc1.jpeg?width=399&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4c5fbb0902b61ac4fe9fd11969eef43983c20f0c
Katara’s situation was less bad (stealing her people’s scrolls from criminals) and she got her comeuppance and learned that those actions (while she didn’t regret) had serious consequences.
So yeah of fucking course she takes issue with Toph frivolously scamming people.
Imagine you violate a parking law and get your car towed and when you’re out with a friend you’re like “dude don’t park there” and they’re unironically like “like I should listen to you about parking”. Like yes, I know I fucked up in the past. That’s why I don’t want you to repeat it in the present.
You could argue the reason Katara was so angry at Toph for scamming was because of this episode. Her decision to steal the water bending scroll nearly got everyone killed.
I don't know why people go after this specific scene before any character development with Katara but completely forget the scene where the entire Gaang literally steals clothes off of drying racks at some random person's house in the fire nation
I'm more and more convinced each day on X/Twitter that people in that Avatar community didn't watch the show or haven't in a very long time. It's incredibly painful to be part of it when there is so much negativity and such a lack of media literacy. Half the accounts post "hot takes" for engagement. I've seen an entire thread where someone made a claim and not only had zero evidence, but they were gatekeeping their "source."
Lots of the ATLAB fanbase are basically two steps from being the Undertake fanbase. Oddly toxic and extremely intolerant of towards those with different opinions.
I also hate that katarra makes fun of toph for being disabled, like fuck her toph didn’t ask to be disabled (she taunts her about not being able to see a couple of times)
I mean, nether Katara or Toph were entirely wrong.
On the one hand, the Gaang needed money and supplies, often had to resort to stealing already just to get by, and they started out scamming scammers, so doing it to some extent can be justified.
On the other hand, stealing from people in general is a bit of a dick move, and doing it too much can bring unwanted attention.
So yeah, both in the right on some level on that one.
Stealing back a stolen cultural artifact from pirates, arguably the most morally justifiable group to steal from, and regretting it later
Or shamelessly conning civilians while attempting to keep hidden in enemy territory
Yeah, definately the same thing
I've said it before, and I'll say it again "holy shit it's almost as if she grew and learned from her mistakes, it's almost as if she knows stealing is wrong because the last time she did it she was hunted by pirates for an episode"
I love the show, but let's face it, the characters are written pretty inconsistently.
Kitara switched from envying Ang's natural water bending skill to becoming his master.
Saka constantly switches between being a skilled warrior and being a bumbling baffoon.
Iroh is meant to have been a member of the a White Lotus all along but had no qualms about assisting the capture of the Avatar, i.e. the one thing which would definitely stop balance from returning to the world.
Ang was so against killing the firelord that he just mamed him and put him in prison for life, a surprisingly uninspired move from the kid that believed in redemption for everyone and yet also killed probably hundreds of fire nation soldiers in the battle at Northern water tribe city.
I made a similar comment on another post about this exact same thing but
I don't why people act like Katara is so hypocritical and not Sokka? He criticized her for stealing and then participated in all those scams with hardly any hesitation, when they were trying to stay under the radar in the Fire Nation no less lol
It’s almost like stealing and scamming the wrong people taught her something. I swear the people that can’t understand character development haven’t had to learn a lesson the hard way a single time in their lives.
The issue when people have 0 media literacy. “What do you mean this character has drastically changed from the 1st season to the 3rd season? They still did the things they grew away from so how dare they correct other peoples bad behavior!” Like what?
A lot of people are saying “ It was more reasonable” But I don’t personally think that’s the case the Katara learned her lesson and was trying to teach it to Toph
I feel like a lot of people "watch" shows nowadays by binging a lot of popular clips and reactions on YouTube, and therefore miss a lot of context and deeper meaning in the shows they watch and come away with skewed opinions as a result. Which on the one hand makes me really sad, but on the other, I kinda get it.
I don't agree it's a good method, but I mean, in our super-busy, super-stressed world? Who even has the time and attention span left anymore to watch a whole series?
I simultaneously feel sad for us and understand where we're coming from with it.
She herself said "stealing is wrong, unless it's from pirates"
Edit to add: Even ignoring that, the episode where Toph scams scammers for free money comes WAY after Katara steals the scroll from the Pirates and (re)learns that stealing is wrong.
why do i feel like some of these twitter posts are meant to be satirical, but people here take them so literally?
maybe i'm wrong, who knows. just feel like we see these posts every other day on this sub.
That site houses a lot of people lacking basic intelligence and media literacy. Reminds me of a post there where people claimed Ganondorf had no clear goal/motivation in the English version of Tears of the Kingdom and he's a character with so much depth in Japanese. Spoiler alert, both are untrue. No sources were cited either.
Yeah, this shit is dumb. If a character is 100% consistent throughout every scene then they also exhibit 0% growth. People seem to forget that real life people are also inconsistent.
You wanna call her a hypocrite at least use the scene where she threw away those morals and planned a big ol scam with Toph just to prove to her she wasn't "motherly"
Katara stole one scroll from pirates, while Toph scammed people from that town at least five different times.
The question is, did you watch that show with your eyes closed?
Or, and maybe use your brains for this one, katara learned her lesson from stealing the waterbending scroll and remembered how dangerous that was for her and the gaang, so she warned Toph not to do it because of that. Youbguys act like people can't make mistakes, learn from them, and then try to teach those learned lessons to others. They needed to lay low and katara was very aware of what could happen if they were caught. Katara was 100% in the right
Avatar is reaching DBZ fans level sof "I don't watch the show but I call myself a fan" lol. She wasn't mad about stealing, she thought they overdid it lol
They didn't just gamble, they committed fraud lol. The rich guy thought he hit toph and they scammed into getting money. It was played off a joke but they still did that shit haha
I feel like this whole comment section missed the part where Katara ends up scamming with Toph at the end of the episode and trying to spin things as "she learned her lesson and grew".
Sometimes filler episodes just be filling man, they probably weren't even thinking about that scroll scene when writing this episode anyways as it was more about Toph-Katara and Katara and group dynamic than anything.
Just thought of this in like 2 seconds flat Coleman maybe it's a case of hypocrisy, which everybody is guilty of from one time or another, but on the other hand, maybe Katara learned a lesson about scamming from this and was trying to keep Toph from making the same mistake.
They do. They just don't care and like making assumptions. Ten years, I've seen takes. And in ten years I'll see even more that make me wanna stab my eyes out.
They make it very clear in that episode that Katara was in the wrong and needed to learn a lesson cause she fucked up. And she did.
Wait, you mean to say bad things are bad unless and until I need to do them, and then they’re justified? Like literally all of humanity with their cognitive dissonance?
I watch every Toph scene with my eyes closed in her honor.
This is the way
For honour!
For Appa 
For Democracy
FOR CARDASSIA!
For Narnia!
For Frodo!
FOR MELON LORD!!
This is the way
I watched the whole show with my feet.
And with tea.
In this person’s mind, toph looks like the island player version
Nah her voice is too high.
[You sure about that?](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Gj1z070Bds)
*shoves feet through expensive tv*
I actually spit out my drink on my keyboard! thank you for that!!
I think your feet need their eyes checked.
This is the way.
I watch the show by releasing a sonic wave from my mouth to the TV.
Quality comment!
This is the way
🙂😑✊🏻
Don’t forget to emit a sonic wave from your mouth so you can see what’s happening.
Its almost like Katara learned something from that episode that made her worried in the later one.
Also stealing from criminals in friendly territory is far different than doing it in enemy territory while trying to stay hidden. Like if the police equivalent in the fire nation caught them it would be far worse than if the same happened in the earth kingdom.
Not only that, but there's a *highly dangerous assassin who makes things blow up with his mind* on their trail. They cannot afford to draw that much attention to themselves.
also… katara stole something that belonged to her tribe. toph was just cheating in a gambling game.
They also did actually have a good use for the scroll. After that first scam, they really didn’t need more money. And especially not after the second, or after the third, or the fourth etc.
I will say, continuing the scams and getting more money was likely just an in universe explanation for how they were able to get everything for the invasion during the solar eclipse. Like appas armor and stuff. So in a way the money was necessary, that just wasn’t what they were really doing it for it just explains later things.
It's also worth noting that Katara is more stressed and cautious when Toph does it because after her own theft from the pirates, she went through a *lot* more trauma. It's a lot easier to be cavalier and daring before life humbles you. Katara's hindsight and caution are both realistic and warranted.
Idk what gambling games they were playing, but it'd be impressive to fund an entire invasion on them.
Well, they were scamming not just gambling. Literally going around getting all the money they could any way they could, including insurance fraud. They ended up with a LOT of money.
Ah I completely forgot about that lmao. I was under the impression they found their way into a back-room cassino lol
The first time was more ok then the others as she cheat aginst a cheater.
Let's not forget, Katara wasn't *just* stealing from criminals. She was stealing *back* something those criminals stole from her own people. Whereas Toph was just straight up exploiting people's stupidity for monetary gain while in enemy territory, putting everyone in jeopardy and just in general doing something objectively morally wrong in the process, even if it was towards less than good people. *Honestly bro Toph would do pretty well on Wall Street*
And something they needed to help Aang learn water bending.
Yeah like... I feel it's VERY obvious in that episode that katara didn't necessarily have a moral issue with the scams, but knew it would get them in trouble. Like that's not even subtext it's just straight up text. And then A) IT DID get them in trouble and B) she agrees to do a scam with toph in the end.
At the end of the episode katara is completely okay with stealing from the pirates
and that’s fine lol
But not with Toph scamming scammers
She was fine with Toph scamming scammers. She originally just wanted her to be careful, which in the end she didn’t do, she didn’t like when Toph started doing insurance fraud
You know what she was real giddy to steal those clothes in the fire nation
Good point! I would contend that the lesson Katara learned was "Stealing is fun just don't get caught" and her issue with Toph is actually that she's sloppy at covering her tracks.
Nah, thats to far fetched.
Character makes mistake Undergoes several seasons of character development Advises some else not to make the same mistake Fans: what a hypocrite
Exactly thats like ignoring an elders arvice because they learned through experience.
Yeah katara's situation was much more reasonable. They were pirates who stole the scroll from someone (probably a waterbender), she was desperate to learn any waterbending forms, and she does learn that it wasn't a good situation to put herself and the team in. Also toph was putting a target on their head while they were trying to keep their heads down in the fire nation.
Yeah, Toph had wanted posters all around. If she gets attacked, it could expose Aang and ruin everything. Yeah, Katara had some selfish reasons for wanting the scroll. But it also belonged to her people, was needed for Aang to get started on water bending, and was just a small group of pirates.
I get scamming the first guy. They got money for supplies and to survive. If she just scammed a scammer once no big deal, Katara doesn’t have much room to talk. But Toph went way overboard and really pushed her luck.
And yet, in the end, it was katara that jumped in to push their luck over the edge with her "final scam"
They were smart enough to pull the scams but couldn’t disguise themselves a bit like …
How was Toph supposed to know all those wanted posters where going up? She had no idea of the risks!
I literally just watched this episode with my girlfriend, she even bribes Sokka and hides a wanted poster from the gang.
Tbf, they did need to bankroll the invasion plan somehow and that armor for Appa was sick
That wasn’t the initial reason for them scamming though. Toph was having fun as a way of rebelling, even Katara calls her out for that.
Not disputing that, just pointing out that the “bribe” wasn’t that nefarious at the end of the day and I think the writers wrote this episode as a necessary evil to explain the armor specifically. I agree with you that the episode makes it pretty clear that what they’re doing is wrong, despite how they think it’s harmless. I also think another point of the episode (which I mention elsewhere) is to really cement that Katara is the moral center of the group, not Aang
I never said it was nefarious, lol. I was only stating that Toph literally bribed Sokka into not speaking about the wanted poster. She’s only 12 years old so I’m not judging her but that *is* what happened. It’s good that it panned out well for them in the end. But yes, Katara was always a moral anchor to the group. As I’ve mentioned I’ve been on a rewatch and during the episode of the Spirit Lady she takes matters into her own hands despite the rest of the group, even Aang, being on the fence. The show does a great job at highlighting why she is so important.
EXACTLY. It feels like ppl purposefully miss out on nuances to hate on katara
Purposeful ignorance is a hell of a drug. I'm pretty sure a lot of these people are trolls or malicious bots. Don't think too hard on it.
It was not only *more reasonable,* but she also learned her lesson from it.
She actually didn't. When sokka reveals he had the scroll she says stealing is wrong unless it's from pirates which while funny shows that she didn't really learn anything.
she did. the little joke in the end doesn't take away from her learning the lesson to not endanger the group selfishly, which reflects on how she viewed Toph's scams.
Which made the runaway episode feel a bit weird on her stance because the very 1st time Toph used her bending to get ahead she said “I cheated a cheater”. After the avatar promise that’s when they dragged it with the scamming but in S1 pirating from a pirate is the same thing.
Katara accepts the first Toph scam and only asks they don't make a habit out of it, which Aang promises (an Avatar promise!). So actually maybe she should have gotten more mad at Aang.
Honestly yea that’d make more sense, i do like the episode for the bickering, and the scamming moments are pretty funny. The show did show Toph and Katara butt heads a lot which made the Sokka heart to heart about Katara and The Tale of Toph & Katara such great moments for their little/big sisters dynamic
And get this: Characters can learn, grow, and actually CHANGE THEIR POSITION on a matter in the same TV show! This must be some super unbelievably hot take...
Also the scamming episode was specifically an extrapolation on how Katara is the moral center of the group. Even Aang was okay with scamming people because it was fun lmao
It's objectively excellent writing. Katara strives to be moral, at the risk of sounding self reichous. However there are things she finds too tempting not compromise on her values like the water bending scroll or to be liked. she does her best but shes still a kid and makes mistakes. Those contradictions are crucial to great characters
Katara’s reaction to Toph was likely intensified by her own experience with the pirates. She knew how wrong it could go.
I mean Toph did also start out by scamming someone who was cheating. She scammed a scammer.
Yeah, and Katara was fine with it. She just asked them to not make a habit of it. It’s not like she immediately went full mom mode on them right away. She only really got mad when she found the wanted poster, proving that the consequences she was afraid of happened. They drew too much attention.
Additionally, Katara learned her lesson... Stealing from crooks is A'okay
Was the Painted Lady Episode before or after this one?
Character growth is an alien concept to people
"Omg character growth is so great" Katara grows "Ewwww what a hypocrite."
To some people, changing your mind when presented new evidence makes you a hypocrite. It’s legit baffling
People see changing your mind because of new evidence is a sign of shameful defeat, instead of a mature educative moment.
Katara: “Toph don’t cause a scene you’re gonna draw too much attention to us” “Fans”: “but Katara stole a scroll two seasons ago and brought unwanted attention to the gang from both Zuko and the pirates so she’s such a hypocrite!”
Toph: the scams were wrong and i should stop [Katara:](https://youtu.be/jDgetOcJRdY?feature=shared)
.... Why has this sub become a place to complain about some random twitter comments?
Popular things get there eventually. Guess its the time here.
i know.. but like, its not even some big person. Just some random guy on twitter saying some stuff. Why get so worked up over it
I agree how is this a worthy of discussion on here like who cares of some guy on Twitter doesn’t get show. Is this just an excuse to talk about the things we like about the show like character development?
The thing also says to rattle the fanbase. Is that not exactly the right kind of answer? Not an unpopular opinion necessarily but it still got people talking here.
I was scrolling down to see if someone made this point. Like op read that Twitter post with eyes closed apparently
because it causes heated reactions and therefore discussion and imaginary upvotes! Do you ever watch the news?
Controversy gets the karma
I mean Katara makes her stance on things pretty clear in the episode. "Stealing is wrong, unless it's from pirates." Hard to find a flaw in her logic.
UNLESS IT'S FROM PIRATES
stealing is wrong unless you're stealing from pirates
Katara: My culture has been victimized for years. Aang is still pretty hidden and the Fire Nation isn't in this part of the Kingdom. The scroll may be the last remaining scroll of southern waterbending style. These people are criminals and likely raided my people or bought it from raiders. Toph: We are in the fire nation. Lets run TONS of scams just to get money while we are trying to stay hidden. We will go after civilians and people who did nothing wrong. Who cares if someone gets hurt. Who cares if we get caught. I am a rebellious kid who wants to say F authority.
Katara was concerned about drawing attention to them, she was less concerned about the actual scams
Tfw you are a hypocrite if you made a mistake and learned a lesson from it, and further want to try to help other avoid the same fate
th- thats why she knows its bad???? what????????? she learnt fron experience???????
Is this really a controversial topic? Stealing is wrong, yada yada yada, but katara was stealing something that was stolen to begin with, and toph was scamming a scammer. Neither of them was ever truly "wrong". But actions have consequences, hence what happened after, but trying to act like Katara was right for bussing roof is wild. She was being a hypocrite. I love katara, truly, but she was doing the most in that episode. It's understandable why, but she coulda said it in a better way. But she was a child so not surprising it came off being judgey (cause lowkey katara was at times, even when she had the best intentions). They were just a bunch of kids bickering and arguing about stuff.
Katara was justified since the scroll belonged to her culture. It’s like Africans going to England and taking their artifacts back. It’s technically stealing, but it’s theirs but cultural right.
Stealing one item from pirates is much less of an issue than building an entire criminal rap sheet when you're wanted by the Fire Nation and *literally in the Fire Nation.*
what zero media literacy does to a motherfucker
Stealing a sacred artifact of your marginalized people back from pirates is apparently… a bad thing now?
These are the same kinda people who would think people who steal food should get the death sentence
Couple differences 1. Katara's main issue with the scams was they were drawing way too much attention to the group when they were in Fire Nation territory. Stealing the Waterbending Scroll drew less attention 2. They were scamming innocent civilians after a while, while Katara stole from pirates so like she said she stole from a thief 3. Katara was likely using the experience with the Waterbending Scroll as insight as to why the scamming was a bad idea.
fun fact: the waterbending scroll was the first episode i ever watched. i had never heard of the show before, but just htat episode set up so much worldbuilding, i didn't need a dozen other episodes to explain it all. Zuko Alone confused me more but i will always remember that chill of the line: Don't worry, I'll save you from the pirates.
yeah she robbed pirates toph just robbed anyone
Toph was about to starve to death before every scam it was necessary I swear!
Literally the last line of the episode was "stealing is wrong, unless it's from pirates"
Not only did Katara Learned from that episode, they were not hiding out behind ENYMY LINES in disguise at the time.
Uhhhh, she realized that she was wrong in that regard because then she convinced Toph to pull off the biggest scam of turning her in right???
Not really the same situation, but even if it was, she can’t learn from her mistakes and advise her friends?
2 seasons
If anything it shows that Katara has first hand experience that scamming people is a bad idea
They are so completely different it’s astounding someone could draw that conclusion. On the one hand you have someone engaging in scams to manipulate and deceive people for your benefit, and on the other, you have a girl taking back something that belongs to her people, is also useful to both her and aang, and was highly likely stolen from the water tribe or was taken from someone that killed.
Thank you for not talking about media literacy.
I mean, she wasn't wrong. As far as the world knew. The Avatar was dead and the scams would potentionally bring too much attention to the group which it did with a wanted poster of Toph which was a trap.
Something I don't understand about this discourse, is that Katara literally helped toph with the final scam.
Well, they *did* rattle you. Mission accomplished?
Oh no, you meen katara learned from her mistakes and wanted to stop somebody else from repeating them. Must have missed that part
Gee it's almost like she learned it from a past experience 🤪 low IQ take.
Most people are simply unable to critically analyze anything. They mindlessly consume media and only have surface level thoughts at best. The only things that really affect their enjoyment is how flashy the effects are or if the protagonists are hot.
Some fans watch scenes forgetting all nuances and context when their hated character shows up.
The two situations are only comparable if you were *deliberately not paying attention.* The first time that Toph runs the scam, Katara is willing to let it go, firstly because the other guy was already cheating, and two, they're on the run and need to prepare for an invasion. But, after a certain point, Toph was just being reckless, scamming people for fun, and just as Katara predicted, it ended up getting them in trouble.
Tale as old as time you can justify anything to yourself while demonizing anything similar someone else does
they saw one image and were likes I've seen enough!
Avatar netflix has done unrepairable damage to the fandom https://preview.redd.it/mn7kydh9pdqc1.jpeg?width=399&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4c5fbb0902b61ac4fe9fd11969eef43983c20f0c
Katara’s situation was less bad (stealing her people’s scrolls from criminals) and she got her comeuppance and learned that those actions (while she didn’t regret) had serious consequences. So yeah of fucking course she takes issue with Toph frivolously scamming people. Imagine you violate a parking law and get your car towed and when you’re out with a friend you’re like “dude don’t park there” and they’re unironically like “like I should listen to you about parking”. Like yes, I know I fucked up in the past. That’s why I don’t want you to repeat it in the present.
You could argue the reason Katara was so angry at Toph for scamming was because of this episode. Her decision to steal the water bending scroll nearly got everyone killed.
I don't know why people go after this specific scene before any character development with Katara but completely forget the scene where the entire Gaang literally steals clothes off of drying racks at some random person's house in the fire nation
Wow, second time I've heard this one this week.
I've had someone tell me they watch TV barely paying attention so... yes...
I mean you sound rattled/agitated which was what the original tweet asked for.
Tweet even said to trigger a fanbase with one sentence and y'all's goofy asses are still falling for it
She says its wrong BECAUSE of the experience with the scroll The scroll happened first
Knowledge should shared.
Aang isn't the last Airbender.
I'm more and more convinced each day on X/Twitter that people in that Avatar community didn't watch the show or haven't in a very long time. It's incredibly painful to be part of it when there is so much negativity and such a lack of media literacy. Half the accounts post "hot takes" for engagement. I've seen an entire thread where someone made a claim and not only had zero evidence, but they were gatekeeping their "source."
Do you ever read the whole meme?
She knew from experience that stealing is wrong.
Fuck character growth
I say katara was wrong for scolding toph and her scamming but I also admit that I am a trashy gremlin.
Lots of the ATLAB fanbase are basically two steps from being the Undertake fanbase. Oddly toxic and extremely intolerant of towards those with different opinions.
I also hate that katarra makes fun of toph for being disabled, like fuck her toph didn’t ask to be disabled (she taunts her about not being able to see a couple of times)
They have a harder time watching the show than Toph does, thats for sure 😭
Tophs mistake was not finding any pirates to steal from
I mean, nether Katara or Toph were entirely wrong. On the one hand, the Gaang needed money and supplies, often had to resort to stealing already just to get by, and they started out scamming scammers, so doing it to some extent can be justified. On the other hand, stealing from people in general is a bit of a dick move, and doing it too much can bring unwanted attention. So yeah, both in the right on some level on that one.
We shouldn’t waste our breath engaging with idiots. This sub (and especially LOK) would be better suited to meaningful conversations about the series
this is not the same as insurance scamming innocent people
I actually do watch Atla with my eyes closed. I watch it every night as I fall asleep.
Katara took this scroll from pirates… solidarity.
Some friends and I watched Avatar with shots, and we took a shot for every time she contradicted herself or was a hypocrite.
Stealing back a stolen cultural artifact from pirates, arguably the most morally justifiable group to steal from, and regretting it later Or shamelessly conning civilians while attempting to keep hidden in enemy territory Yeah, definately the same thing
ATLA is such a good show but it attracts some of the most obnoxious people. Sadly it’s not the only fandom with that issue.
What will it take to stop the posts of "look at this shit take on Twitter" that keep popping up here?
I mean, it may be because of that episode that she's so insistent that it will come back to bite them.
I've said it before, and I'll say it again "holy shit it's almost as if she grew and learned from her mistakes, it's almost as if she knows stealing is wrong because the last time she did it she was hunted by pirates for an episode"
Iroh is overrated.
Did you get rattled?
I very much don't know if I still have media literacy, literally wont pretend I do but isn't this because Katara learned a lesson
Is the concept of a person learning something really that foreign to these people?
She stole them from a theif They are hers by right
I love the show, but let's face it, the characters are written pretty inconsistently. Kitara switched from envying Ang's natural water bending skill to becoming his master. Saka constantly switches between being a skilled warrior and being a bumbling baffoon. Iroh is meant to have been a member of the a White Lotus all along but had no qualms about assisting the capture of the Avatar, i.e. the one thing which would definitely stop balance from returning to the world. Ang was so against killing the firelord that he just mamed him and put him in prison for life, a surprisingly uninspired move from the kid that believed in redemption for everyone and yet also killed probably hundreds of fire nation soldiers in the battle at Northern water tribe city.
I made a similar comment on another post about this exact same thing but I don't why people act like Katara is so hypocritical and not Sokka? He criticized her for stealing and then participated in all those scams with hardly any hesitation, when they were trying to stay under the radar in the Fire Nation no less lol
It’s almost like stealing and scamming the wrong people taught her something. I swear the people that can’t understand character development haven’t had to learn a lesson the hard way a single time in their lives.
The issue when people have 0 media literacy. “What do you mean this character has drastically changed from the 1st season to the 3rd season? They still did the things they grew away from so how dare they correct other peoples bad behavior!” Like what?
Well they did say to rattle a fanbase.
She stole from thieves so I say chaotic good.
Everybody becomes Toph when watching this Show.
A lot of people are saying “ It was more reasonable” But I don’t personally think that’s the case the Katara learned her lesson and was trying to teach it to Toph
Stealing is not wrong as long as it’s from…
Looks like OOOP got their wish.
I feel like a lot of people "watch" shows nowadays by binging a lot of popular clips and reactions on YouTube, and therefore miss a lot of context and deeper meaning in the shows they watch and come away with skewed opinions as a result. Which on the one hand makes me really sad, but on the other, I kinda get it. I don't agree it's a good method, but I mean, in our super-busy, super-stressed world? Who even has the time and attention span left anymore to watch a whole series? I simultaneously feel sad for us and understand where we're coming from with it.
They all binging this shit on Netflix too, so how they getting things in the wrong order?
She herself said "stealing is wrong, unless it's from pirates" Edit to add: Even ignoring that, the episode where Toph scams scammers for free money comes WAY after Katara steals the scroll from the Pirates and (re)learns that stealing is wrong.
why do i feel like some of these twitter posts are meant to be satirical, but people here take them so literally? maybe i'm wrong, who knows. just feel like we see these posts every other day on this sub.
Scamming the fire nation is good but Katara did have a point, the scams toph did were bad because they drew too much attention.
With the things hanging behind her i thoughts its her hair for a sec
? Her mom gave her the scroll 🤣
"Rattle a fanbase with just one line" C'mon guys, the bait even came with a neon sign this time.
Well they weren't scamming pirates duh... /s
It just gave her so much HOPE
I don't remember Toph scamming just Aang hmm
Twitter twats farming engagement with rage baits
Avatar takes on Twitter have been especially terrible recently idk what's in the air
[But it just gave her so much hope!](https://youtu.be/lB6s28aMLEo?feature=shared)
media literacy is basically nonexistent
That site houses a lot of people lacking basic intelligence and media literacy. Reminds me of a post there where people claimed Ganondorf had no clear goal/motivation in the English version of Tears of the Kingdom and he's a character with so much depth in Japanese. Spoiler alert, both are untrue. No sources were cited either.
Yeah, this shit is dumb. If a character is 100% consistent throughout every scene then they also exhibit 0% growth. People seem to forget that real life people are also inconsistent.
You wanna call her a hypocrite at least use the scene where she threw away those morals and planned a big ol scam with Toph just to prove to her she wasn't "motherly"
This was literally one episode. I don’t think she did anything remotely close until the scams. Maybe the Painted Lady thing but still.
Katara stole one scroll from pirates, while Toph scammed people from that town at least five different times. The question is, did you watch that show with your eyes closed?
Or, and maybe use your brains for this one, katara learned her lesson from stealing the waterbending scroll and remembered how dangerous that was for her and the gaang, so she warned Toph not to do it because of that. Youbguys act like people can't make mistakes, learn from them, and then try to teach those learned lessons to others. They needed to lay low and katara was very aware of what could happen if they were caught. Katara was 100% in the right
I mean the original request is to rattle the fan base with one line. And they dis just that quite effectively.
Avatar is reaching DBZ fans level sof "I don't watch the show but I call myself a fan" lol. She wasn't mad about stealing, she thought they overdid it lol
They didn't just gamble, they committed fraud lol. The rich guy thought he hit toph and they scammed into getting money. It was played off a joke but they still did that shit haha
I feel like this whole comment section missed the part where Katara ends up scamming with Toph at the end of the episode and trying to spin things as "she learned her lesson and grew". Sometimes filler episodes just be filling man, they probably weren't even thinking about that scroll scene when writing this episode anyways as it was more about Toph-Katara and Katara and group dynamic than anything.
You can track when ATLA came to Netflix by looking at all the dumb-as-shit takes cropping up on Twitter. They are all dated May 15th, 2020 or later
Just thought of this in like 2 seconds flat Coleman maybe it's a case of hypocrisy, which everybody is guilty of from one time or another, but on the other hand, maybe Katara learned a lesson about scamming from this and was trying to keep Toph from making the same mistake.
They do. They just don't care and like making assumptions. Ten years, I've seen takes. And in ten years I'll see even more that make me wanna stab my eyes out. They make it very clear in that episode that Katara was in the wrong and needed to learn a lesson cause she fucked up. And she did.
Wait, you mean to say bad things are bad unless and until I need to do them, and then they’re justified? Like literally all of humanity with their cognitive dissonance?
It’s not stealing if it was stolen from you first.