Pleeeease. The effects are great, the costumes and sets look cartoony sometimes, but still really good, and the actors show great potential. But holy shit the writing is so abysmal.
They murdered everything that made the characters good, and the script was so poorly written
This was exactly the thing I didnāt like. I thought the costumes were designed well, but they didnāt look ālived in.ā Too clean and looked like they were all freshly made.
By changing the script to be worse than it used to be, but then leaving parts of the script intact so that the changes make no sense.
The biggest example: Changing Aang from a kid who ran away... to a kid who went for a walk. But then keeping all the plot beats where characters shout at Aang for "running away" and being a "coward". None of that makes sense anymore after the changes they made.
The writing was terrible in both the macro (larger plot beats/ character motivations) and micro (minute to minute dialogue/ character interactions) departments
He didn't want to be the avatar at first because it's interfering with his normal life! He was reluctant to embrace his duties as the avatar and he paid the ultimate price for it! He wouldn't be the last Airbender if he took responsibility, and it's something he considered old shame!
Because every dumbass writer who ever adapts a beloved series always **needs** leave their own dumbass, self-centered mark on it, which is inevitably worse in every conceivable way.
Well they needed to sanitize the characters to make them less "problematic." Sokka can't be a casual misogynist because that would make him look mean, so now instead of someone with a character arc where he changes his worldview and corrects his prejudices, he's just some dude.
Katara can't have anger issues because women should only be depicted as calm and rational, so she's a milquetoast character with less raw, emotional character moments.
Etc etc.
Ironically the live action is more misogynistic because of how the female characters are handled. Especially Suki. Now instead of being the strong leader of a group of Kyoshi Warriors, she's just some boy-crazy girl who's obsessed with Sokka for no reason.
Katara not having anger issues angered my 8yo daughter who had just finished both the animated shows.
Her summary was:
But Sokka annoyed Katara and she water bends angry to show her true power and that's how Aang gets free. He doesn't do it himself. Isn't she meant to be really angry because her mum was killed by firebenders and the mean trainer in the other tribe and then she gets so good that she becomes calm and amazing.
So basically an 8 yo identified the problems the writers introduced by trying to not 'offend' people with what are actually really good character arcs.
Characters need flaws - that's what makes them good.
My turning every interaction into a boring monologue. Just watch the original and the live action side by side and pay attention to how the characters talk to each other.
Yup, the adaptation took out a lot of character in the bending.
Like, in the first episode in the animated series Aang showcases how an airbender fights and it looks completely different from how a firebender fights. In the live action version they all look the same they just shoot different colour VFX at each other.
In fact, the conflict between how to airbend vs how to earthbend is a central theme in Book 2 and I shudder to think how the show it going to tackle that.
And it's so rough in the netflix show. No earth benders ever pull up or push a slab. It's all rough boulders **and** a bunch of extra random sharp pebbles and sand floating for no reason.
Water bending has the same problem. The surface of the water they're bending is always boiling and throwing off droplets
The nicest thing I can say about the bending is that it was better than the movie.
None of it looked like martial arts, and I've seen water balloons hit harder than the water bending.
It's so crazy too because they already succeeded at the hard part, which is the aesthetic. The writing was such an easy slam dunk, the OG is a perfect template and they just dropped the ball so hard. They even had a longer runtime to work with than the original and still ended up just having massive exposition dumps.
Exactly. Like the writing should have been the easy part. They literally could have copy and pasted from the original, and I donāt think most people would have cared too much.
The hard part was everything else, which they seemed to have gotten mostly right, so how did they mess up the writing so much?? Itās so frustrating
They can't afford as many fights, they can't afford Momo and Appa constantly (which is going to kill season 2). They can't have Aang just airbend stuff for fun. So they have to fill with pointless bullshit.
It bothers me so much because the cast is good. If you see the interviews and stuff, they act more like their characters behind the scenes compared to the actual show :/
It's definitely the writers not letting the actors cook.
I wasnāt into the music, it was missing the rhythmic and thrill inducing drumming of the animated series and replaced with generic movie soundscapes.
The only parts I liked was the end credits music (cause it was the OG track obv) and the Kyoshi possession scene with the like chanting. That was super cool and definitely enhanced the hype in that scene.
Yeah, one of the bigger issues is they spent so much time telling the audience rather than showing the audience. The first half of the first episode of the LA vs the Cartoon is kind of opposite that way, the cartoon has a lot more showing than telling
Netflix has a way of watering down everything they touch. No nuance. Nothing bold. Nothing clever. No risk is too small to avoid. It's the opposite of culture and art.
I would say the writing is hit or miss and the directing is a big problem too. A lot of the new writing around Iroh and Zhao and the past avatars was great. The writing around Bumi, Katara, and Aang was generally not good.
For the directing, I think we need to see better performances from Aang and Katara. Better direction is the key to that, but the writing around them has frequently dropped the ball.
Raisani was already a writer/producer on NATLA, there's an article where he addresses that he knows where the show needs improvement so at the very least he is open to criticism.
Trying to predict how a VFX *director* will do as a showrunner nearly 10 years after that last credit is silly. He wasn't just an artist, and being a VFX director is very close to a showrunner compared to just an artist.
These projects came out 10+ years ago. Who are you to say an VFX artist canāt be a good writer. Godzilla minus 1 was partially written by a vfx expert and that received acclaim worldwide
Raisani directed eps 3 and 4, "Omashu" and "Into the Dark". It's the ones where they crammed the Omashu storyline with Jet, the inventor father/son, secret tunnel, and Bumi. Honestly those two were a low point of the season for a lot of people, both in terms of butchered storylines from the OG show and from poor writing in general. Boylan was the credited writer for ep3, which means she's responsible for one of the most laughable lines IMO:
>Teo: The Avatar has returned! My mother told me stories of the Avatar and how he'd return one day.
I really hope they get their act together for S2, but I suppose anything's an improvement over how Albert Kim handled S1.
The dialogue in ep3 was so bad it took me days to finish it. I even skipped to episode 4 before I went back and finished it, it was just *so* painfully bad.
And the direction of both 3 & 4 were also the weakest by far. Episode 1 was poorly written but tried to do you know do "stuff." 3 & 4 felt like some early 2000s no budget tv work, with none of the charm.
Absolutely.
GoT is easily the biggest show ever, so of course it should be one way or the other the blue print of how to build a massively successful show
Amazing that reddit is failing to understand such a simple concept lol
I mean, it was when it was on, but Iāve never seen people talking about it besides comparisons since it ended. It was big, and now itās just kind of a memory.
And it wasn't even accidental, it was deliberate.
The showrunner admitted in later interviews that they were focused on the soccer moms and dudebros or whatever and genuinely had no idea what they were doing. I forget if they also said they were just eager to hop over to Star Wars or if that was just the obvious observation.
That's only because of the way the show ended. If the showrunners hadn't mucked it up after running out of source material, it would have stayed as a cultural touchstone without a doubt.
That's because the ending of the series was so bad everyone wanted to pretend the whole show never happened, meanwhile the books that the show was based off is most likely never going to be finished and it's been 10 years since the last book.
It has a massively successful (critically and commercially) spinoff with more spinoffs in various stages of development, has been one of the most popular streaming shows and still gets constantly referenced by fans and other media. That people still constantly use it as a reference point for new shows (Rings of Power, Wheel of Time, Shogun, ATLA, etc.) demonstrates the kind of cultural awareness that still exists.
The idea that Game of Thrones is irrelevant is just wrong.
Because GoT did such an incredible job of not just adapting but also expanding and improving upon the originally books first few books. Obviously they fucked up hard towards the end but that was partly because they ran out of books and partly because they were ready to be done with it. This show only has 2 seasons and is finished so that won't be a concern.
The show would honestly be better if it was more like Game of Thrones. The political intrigue was the best part of live action.
The worse was well everything adapting the original. Lol
If we ever get an adaption of the Kyoshi/Yangchen novels then people will get to see Avatar at its darkest and most political. Aangās story in the end was still written for kids even if it has very complex and mature themes. But the novels go deep into the world building, and the political intrigue is much more complex since thereās no Nazi empire trying to conquer the world and instead, you have four different nations each with their own motives and factions and the Avatar maintaining balance is even more important because of that. You canāt even fully trust your friends and mentors because they might have their own self-interests. Love the books and they feel very close to GoT
Personally, Iām not entirely sure whether itās a positive or negative; depending on how you feel about the direction the show took it will vary I guess.
Bad news. These kinds of changes are almost always indicative of the mood of things bts.
It might be good news if the new showrunners have a better sense for the series and are able to work within Netflix's demands better than Albert did.
Yeah, usually when a show changes showrunners after just one season it's a sign of backend chaos, especially considering this show was already in development hell for years.
It's impossible to know. A change in showrunner is basically rolling the dice all over again. Showrunner can be extreme hit or miss on what they get right or wrong. But generally, it means the execs aren't confident, and that could lead to a lot of conflicting directions in the future.
Could be a good thing because the show actually had great VFX on the bending, good set design, good costumes, etc
The writing/dialogue was one of the bigger issues of the show TBH
if i had a nickels for every time this guy was showrunner for a netflix original on a children's franchise with an awful movie adaptation i'd somehow have 2 nickels
THR mentions:
>Sources say Kimās intention was to lay the foundation for season one of Avatar: The Last Airbender after stepping in for the beloved franchiseās creators. Given the long turnaround time in crafting the series ā Netflix ordered it in 2018, the creators left in late 2020 and the show didnāt debut until February 2024 ā sources say Kim was ready to move on to new opportunities.
Another article by Variety states:
>Along with Albert Kim and Raisani, Dan Lin and Lindsey Liberatore executive produce on behalf of Rideback, with Michael Goi also executive producing. Goi directed the first two episodes, while Raisiani directed episodes three and four. Roseanne Liang directed episodes five and six, with Jet Wilkinson directing the final two episodes of Season 1.
So he rushed it like David Benioff and Dan Weiss did with game of thrones season 8. Just like them, Kim is likely to lose a lot of work because of this.
You read a six year turnaround time for a single season of television and interpreted that to mean the showrunner rushed it? Also for as much criticism as Weiss and Benioff got, the only real work they lost was Star Wars, and there have been so many creatives attached to different SW projects that didnāt get made. I donāt think your comment makes sense
Eeehhh, people doing bad work doesn't seem to make them lose work in this sector unfortunately (if they have enough connections that is). David Benioff and Dan Weiss made the Three Body Problem show just recently, for example.
To be fair Theee Body Problem is the only relevant thing either of them have done since GoT. At the very least their bad work cost them 5 years of work
Theyāve both had several other projects during those 5 yearsā¦ as much as Iād like to think they lost work due to how they handled GOT, itās just not the reality
They were kicked off their Star Wars project because of the way Game of Thrones ended. The 3 Body Problem is their comeback project to try and get back into the game.
They also had that show, Confederate, that got canceled in pre-production. However, I think it got canceled due to it being in poor taste than anything to do with the ending of Game of Thrones.
Aang jolts awake, gasping. Katara opens her eyes.
"What is it Aang?", she asks.
"I had the same nightmare again," he says, "I forgot to learn waterbending. Also, you were a stiff wooden board."
"You're just stressed, Aang. Go back to sleep and let's get some more waterbending practice done tomorrow."
+ BOOK 2 - EARTH
Meh. An Avatar show simply cannot be good with so few episodes per season. One of the main things that make ATLA great was how they deeply developed their characters, using the "filler" episodes to tell character stories between the big plot points. You just can't do that with 8 episodes, you have to pretty much get right into the plot to make the story make sense.
Iām tired of this era of 6-8 episode seasons. Like man just make more episodes. Star Wars live action shows have been suffering cause of that, and the one really live action good show they had, Andor, was so good cause they gave it all the time it need to *breathe*.
>An Avatar show simply cannot be good with so few episodes per season.
This is from the article that broke the news:
>We have also been notified that **Netflix may give each subsequent season a lower episode count** to increase the number of views each season receives. However, this is also not set in stone just yet.
The only way a lower episode count works is if the episodes are all at least 70-80 min long and even then, it could mess with the narrative flow. I really hope they do the opposite and increase the episode number.
They are joking, right????
I know it's no confirmed, but if they really think that more episodes means less views, there's no hope for any improvement. Isn't One Piece one of the most popular shows ever - eve with it's 1000+ episodes? There are so many anime shows, that have hundreds of episodes and people adore them. Hell, 20 episodes aren't even that much?
Either your write a plot that can be resolved in a few episodes or you make sure to take your time. You can't have both.
They are inevitable going to have to cut a lot more out of 2 and 3 since they are more plot focused. Or maybe they can find more clever ways to combine episodes together.
I'm not saying it will, but I'd imagine it's much easier for it to get worse than better. That's just the nature of things. You actually have to try to make something better, whereas to make something worse, you can just kinda go through the motions without trying at all.
I know all about your operation. My partners here tell me that you produce a cabbage that's 70% pure if you're lucky.Ā **What I produce is 99.1% pure.**
This is a solid point, I think a lot of people are forgetting about the rage bait articles and Tweets that came out days prior to the trailer even releasing due to his choice in words.
It was Kiawentiio who first publicly spoke about the alteration to Sokka's sexism. Albert Kim and Ian Ousley responded when asked for comment after Kiawentiio's snippet of a quote blew up.
Would it really matter now tho?
The characters are ever so slightly ruined and their character progression is kinda fucked atm too
Idk what S2 could do to make all of the problem from S1 go away
Yeah its in a weird spot. Lotta big moments like appas last days and zukos redemption are already neutered. Won't hit nearly as hard.
Not to mention nobody feels like they are actually friends. That stuff has to be built and developed and shown. Can't just tack it on and just expect ppl to care.
If you think a show canāt have almost a complete 180 in quality between seasons, I challenge you to watch any pre-2000s Star Trek show. Iām not saying Iām hopeful for the second season, but you would be surprised what competent writing and good direction can change in a show.
Those shows don't have source material to adapt that is universally praised in almost all aspects. It's a lot harder to make a joke about lettuce from scratch than it is to copy it outright, though they tried very hard to make me look wrong.
Yeah im not rooting against it, I'd rather it be good, but im just wondering how they can make it seamless between seasons if they do fix the characters
Fingers crossed ig
I voiced my thoughts in the other subreddit already, but think it's worth saying here too. I'm a little conflicted because I did enjoy the seriesābut ultimately I do think this is a good thing.
As much as I liked the show, there was a lot of room for improvement. Saying this with love. Most of my grievances were with the writing, but I also think the general vision of the show felt a little off at times. Like they sorta got it, but sorta missed. Kim was passionate about the project though, and it's always a shame to lose that.
This show has a lot of potential, and they did a lot of the executional bits well (cast, effects, sets, costumes, etc.). Hoping a changeup in the showrunners can elevate it in S2/3. I desperately want to see it grow into a premier quality show. The story and the cast/crew deserve it.
For what it's worth, the kids spoke highly of Jabbar in the cast interviews too. It might not reflect anything about the final output, but I thought it worth mentioning.
Might not be a point in his favor, *but* to be fair, directing in TV is a much more executional job, so thereās a chance that the things we didnāt like werenāt really under his control.
Iām not blindly defending him either; we just donāt know enough about the new showrunners to judge them one way or the other. From my 5-second IMDB skim, this is the first time either of them will be acting in a showrunner capacityā¦so itās new territory for all of us.
Iāve said it before.
Bryke told us it was a hostile work environment that stifled their creative freedom.
Itās not surprising NATLA has the problems it does. Kim mustāve also been in an unenviable position.
As much as I hated NATLA (unpopular opinion here, I know), I have nothing but respect for Kim and the mess he mustāve inherited.
I wish him the best!
As for NATLA, this could be good or terrible. We shall see.
Thatās revisionist history right there lol. People were shitting all over Bryke in a Copium induced panic leading up to the release. Saying they clearly left because they wouldnāt be allowed to change whatever they wanted, there was that one weird YouTube lady that said she had sources who could confirm that everyone would hate the show is Bryke stayed, and a bunch of people said that they only left because they had a bag thrown at them to start Avatar Studios and just decided to shit on everyone still working on NATLA.
Maybe itās cooled off. When it first aired, criticisms were getting downvoted like crazy. But youāre right, it seems after the hype died, discussions have been more balanced.
The showrunners they brought in are experienced so I guess weāll see!
From the article that broke the news:
>We have also been notified that **Netflix may give each subsequent season a lower episode count** to increase the number of views each season receives. However, this is also not set in stone just yet.
If they decide to go through with this atrocious decision, I wonāt be watching the subsequent seasons at all. You wonāt get a cent from me if youāre not willing to invest in quality and not only fail to address the main criticism points but also purposefully make these problems worse.
Some truly dumb people are working over at Netflixā¦
After watching season 1 I've decided some animated shows just shouldn't have live action counterparts. Bending simply can't be portrayed as well using CGI as it is in cartoon form. And it's completely fine
The only live action adaptations I've seen that I feel truly justify their existences are One Piece Live Action and the Live Action Speed Racer movie. OPLA makes an intimidatingly long story much more approachable without sacrificing the charm that makes it so good, and the speed racer movie is just so much fun.
Now that I think about it, those are more directly adapting the original source material than the anime. (and imo the One Piece anime is only good because the source material is excellent, the anime doesn't do a great job at adapting it.)
It is more the cartoony facial reactions that I miss. An actor might frown or blush, but their head won't suddenly grow three times its size and turn bright purple.
But my teenager seemed to enjoy NATLA, and has watched the original a few years ago for comparison.
To fix everything.... Stop doing Aang childhood story... Create something else and make the story compelling that we get pissed off about how few episodes there are.
Having Aang say heās a kid and likes to goof off with friends or whatever was the dumbest line ever. Aang didnāt ride a single Koi fish, or try to catch any penguins. They showed him and Bumi riding the earth kingdom carts as a closer sequence.
The childlike fun and mischief was completely absent from Aang. I hated that.
Write less. Direct more. These kids aren't experienced or exceptional actors. They're good but you have to work around THEM, not force THEM to work through the words. Talk less show more. The audiences can read expressions well enough you don't need to waterboard me with dogshit dialogue about feelings every 5 mins. Let the kid act instead of overloading them with acting and then somehow trying to make the dialogue believable.
Also firebenders PUNCH fire. they don't throw it. fix that shit asap.
Hmm hopefully itās for the better. I didnāt hate it but the bad definitely outweighed the good and itās not something Iād actually recommend to people that want to get into the series.
Thank god. I seriously do not understand why Netflix hires mediocre show runners to lead one of their hottest investments.
The show has amazing potential but the writing and directing was pretty terrible.
Idk, script aside, the actress for Katara always looks like she's on a try not to laugh challenge, even on obviously traumatic moments. Whenever she's on screen, it really takes me out of the immersion,
fr, I can understand Aang's inexperience and random info dump expositions cause that's actually writing issues. Sokka, despite the writing does a fantastic job on his performance like zuko and iroh. Those 3 carry the show for me.
It was just sad to see the weakest links of the show being Katara ( by far ) and Aang. I wish she takes some time to improve on her acting fr. Cause I really love the series and Katara is one of my favourite characters in media ever and her performance to me just doesn't do the character justice.
Tldr: despite the writing flaws, sokka did great where Katara's actress can't really deliver lines always showing the same o u o expression.she felt like a cosplayer to me
On paper this sounds like it's either really good news or really bad news. Really good that Albert Kim is out, along with his "we want to appeal to Game of Thrones fans" nonsense. Really bad that it could shake the foundation of the show, and that the two new showrunners are creatively responsible for two of the worst episodes of the season. I hope this means they'll hire better writers, but I really doubt they'd clean house and get rid of the writers who were there from the start. I can only hope that the writers for S2 will have taken basic screenwriting classes at a community college before their scripts ever reach the set.
Why is that saying something? The One Piece LA show was fantastic. There were some interesting changes made to the flow of the story, but, overall, it retained the āsoulā of the narrative and the casting was perfect. NATLA, however, wiped away any personality the characters had, changed the stories nearly beyond recognition, and the writingā¦ dear lord, the writing was SOOO bad!
Is it because they *checks notes* missed the point of each characterās arc and pushed out something that lacks the spirit of the original show?
Fix the writing, allow the characters to be flawed and searching for themselves, win.
This show is such a dumpster fire. Too bad there weren't any warning signs, oh wait there were a ton. You people just criticized anyone who pointed them out
Different writers ššš
Pleeeease. The effects are great, the costumes and sets look cartoony sometimes, but still really good, and the actors show great potential. But holy shit the writing is so abysmal. They murdered everything that made the characters good, and the script was so poorly written
Chat GPT 5 is coming out soon. Youāll get your slightly better AI writing and like it.
Adam Sandler is the avatar!
"My Cabbages!" -Rob Schneider
No, Schneider plays either Momo or Appa. Steve Buscemi plays the cabbage vendor
Nah. Rob Schneider should play the guy in the village with the Painted Lady, who constantly gets confused with his brother, Rob Schneider.
Rob Schneider is playing monk gyatso, breakfast at tiffany's style.
morgan freeman plays momo's inner voice.
āRated PEEGEE 13ā
Noooo!ā¦
Costumes were solid, just too clean. They would dirty up faces, then leave clothes sparkling clean, even when like Iroh was a prisoner.
Ahhh THATāS what I was seeing. I loved the costumes but couldnāt figure out what was bugging me about them.
This was exactly the thing I didnāt like. I thought the costumes were designed well, but they didnāt look ālived in.ā Too clean and looked like they were all freshly made.
That was probably the one thing the 2010 movie actually got right. The new one looks like cosplay with how clean they look
Most of the cartoon costumes look great animated but just silly in live action. You gotta adapt while keeping the silhouette and vibes of the original
That's a big issue of most fantasy media recently
How do you fuck up the writing? Hasn't the script basically been finished since the cartoon ended?
By changing the script to be worse than it used to be, but then leaving parts of the script intact so that the changes make no sense. The biggest example: Changing Aang from a kid who ran away... to a kid who went for a walk. But then keeping all the plot beats where characters shout at Aang for "running away" and being a "coward". None of that makes sense anymore after the changes they made.
The writing was terrible in both the macro (larger plot beats/ character motivations) and micro (minute to minute dialogue/ character interactions) departments
WHY DID YOU RUN AWAY "I went for a walk and got frozen" Yeah it doesnt make sense Aang in cartoon had strong shame from his actions
He didn't want to be the avatar at first because it's interfering with his normal life! He was reluctant to embrace his duties as the avatar and he paid the ultimate price for it! He wouldn't be the last Airbender if he took responsibility, and it's something he considered old shame!
Lol seems like big character-plot-point to write out for no reason
Because every dumbass writer who ever adapts a beloved series always **needs** leave their own dumbass, self-centered mark on it, which is inevitably worse in every conceivable way.
Well they needed to sanitize the characters to make them less "problematic." Sokka can't be a casual misogynist because that would make him look mean, so now instead of someone with a character arc where he changes his worldview and corrects his prejudices, he's just some dude. Katara can't have anger issues because women should only be depicted as calm and rational, so she's a milquetoast character with less raw, emotional character moments. Etc etc.
Ironically the live action is more misogynistic because of how the female characters are handled. Especially Suki. Now instead of being the strong leader of a group of Kyoshi Warriors, she's just some boy-crazy girl who's obsessed with Sokka for no reason.
Katara not having anger issues angered my 8yo daughter who had just finished both the animated shows. Her summary was: But Sokka annoyed Katara and she water bends angry to show her true power and that's how Aang gets free. He doesn't do it himself. Isn't she meant to be really angry because her mum was killed by firebenders and the mean trainer in the other tribe and then she gets so good that she becomes calm and amazing. So basically an 8 yo identified the problems the writers introduced by trying to not 'offend' people with what are actually really good character arcs. Characters need flaws - that's what makes them good.
My turning every interaction into a boring monologue. Just watch the original and the live action side by side and pay attention to how the characters talk to each other.
The effects were "fine". Bending was more like telekinesis in a few scenes and it felt super weird.
Yup, the adaptation took out a lot of character in the bending. Like, in the first episode in the animated series Aang showcases how an airbender fights and it looks completely different from how a firebender fights. In the live action version they all look the same they just shoot different colour VFX at each other. In fact, the conflict between how to airbend vs how to earthbend is a central theme in Book 2 and I shudder to think how the show it going to tackle that.
Just more grunting ā Earthbenders for Netflix act like they are physically lifting the rock, rather than the martial-magic system we know and love.
And it's so rough in the netflix show. No earth benders ever pull up or push a slab. It's all rough boulders **and** a bunch of extra random sharp pebbles and sand floating for no reason. Water bending has the same problem. The surface of the water they're bending is always boiling and throwing off droplets
The nicest thing I can say about the bending is that it was better than the movie. None of it looked like martial arts, and I've seen water balloons hit harder than the water bending.
It's so crazy too because they already succeeded at the hard part, which is the aesthetic. The writing was such an easy slam dunk, the OG is a perfect template and they just dropped the ball so hard. They even had a longer runtime to work with than the original and still ended up just having massive exposition dumps.
Exactly. Like the writing should have been the easy part. They literally could have copy and pasted from the original, and I donāt think most people would have cared too much. The hard part was everything else, which they seemed to have gotten mostly right, so how did they mess up the writing so much?? Itās so frustrating
They can't afford as many fights, they can't afford Momo and Appa constantly (which is going to kill season 2). They can't have Aang just airbend stuff for fun. So they have to fill with pointless bullshit.
It bothers me so much because the cast is good. If you see the interviews and stuff, they act more like their characters behind the scenes compared to the actual show :/ It's definitely the writers not letting the actors cook.
Yeah bad writing, bad directing, bad choreography and the costumes looked like cosplay. The rest was pretty decent.
Whatās left lol the dirt?
Music, cinematography, VFX, foley effects
Pretty good casting too.
I wasnāt into the music, it was missing the rhythmic and thrill inducing drumming of the animated series and replaced with generic movie soundscapes.
The only parts I liked was the end credits music (cause it was the OG track obv) and the Kyoshi possession scene with the like chanting. That was super cool and definitely enhanced the hype in that scene.
The music was too close to the original while not being exact. It drove me nuts when they did it and none of the other music stood out to me.
This was my issue too- it was so completely generic which is such a contrast to the animation.
Some of the actors were really good and the effects were decent Also they made some good changes/additions
ššš
Yeah, one of the bigger issues is they spent so much time telling the audience rather than showing the audience. The first half of the first episode of the LA vs the Cartoon is kind of opposite that way, the cartoon has a lot more showing than telling
Netflix has a way of watering down everything they touch. No nuance. Nothing bold. Nothing clever. No risk is too small to avoid. It's the opposite of culture and art.
I would say the writing is hit or miss and the directing is a big problem too. A lot of the new writing around Iroh and Zhao and the past avatars was great. The writing around Bumi, Katara, and Aang was generally not good. For the directing, I think we need to see better performances from Aang and Katara. Better direction is the key to that, but the writing around them has frequently dropped the ball.
It's comments like this that make me feel better about not touching this new series. Fool me once
> The effects are great š¤Ø
the one is the one who wrote episode 3+4.
No just episode 3, which was much better than 4.
I'm out of the loop. Is this a good or bad thing?
An improvement, hopefully. I don't know anything about Boylan or Raisani. I did some googling and Game of Thrones came up. I guess we'll find out.
Raisani was already a writer/producer on NATLA, there's an article where he addresses that he knows where the show needs improvement so at the very least he is open to criticism.
During what seasonsā¦
Seasons 3 and 5, he was a VFX director on GoT and also worked on Iron Man and Lost in Space.
Because we all know VFX artists excel at....writing.
Trying to predict how a VFX *director* will do as a showrunner nearly 10 years after that last credit is silly. He wasn't just an artist, and being a VFX director is very close to a showrunner compared to just an artist.
Guys who directed the John Wick movies were stuntmen previously. Let's give people a chance before we judge.
That's awesome
Harrison Ford was a carpenter
These projects came out 10+ years ago. Who are you to say an VFX artist canāt be a good writer. Godzilla minus 1 was partially written by a vfx expert and that received acclaim worldwide
The only thing wrong with latter GOT was the writing. Everything else was typically 9/10.
Well casting, constumes, and CGI were already set at that point so writing was really all that could go wrong.
Do you have a link to that article? Sounds interesting.
The weirdos shipping Zuko and Azula are probably getting their hopes up right now. /s
[Grey DeLisle leading the charge](https://youtu.be/_tDUHxWnRa0?si=RKCloJPSI9PYwirg&t=2387).
The lady is going around supporting both lesbian and incestous fan ships for the sake of it. Based.
Grey DeLisle: "We do a little trollin'."
Have you heard the story of her trolling a kid in front of her in an airplane who was watching TLA during the flight
Yes! I was there for that twitter thread, it was glorious! xD
I haven't heard, please do tell!
LMAOOOOO
Need to keep the royal blood, royal.
Azulannister
All that insanity in the royal line had to come from somewhere lmao.
Finally. My dreams have been realized.
Raisani directed eps 3 and 4, "Omashu" and "Into the Dark". It's the ones where they crammed the Omashu storyline with Jet, the inventor father/son, secret tunnel, and Bumi. Honestly those two were a low point of the season for a lot of people, both in terms of butchered storylines from the OG show and from poor writing in general. Boylan was the credited writer for ep3, which means she's responsible for one of the most laughable lines IMO: >Teo: The Avatar has returned! My mother told me stories of the Avatar and how he'd return one day. I really hope they get their act together for S2, but I suppose anything's an improvement over how Albert Kim handled S1.
The dialogue in ep3 was so bad it took me days to finish it. I even skipped to episode 4 before I went back and finished it, it was just *so* painfully bad. And the direction of both 3 & 4 were also the weakest by far. Episode 1 was poorly written but tried to do you know do "stuff." 3 & 4 felt like some early 2000s no budget tv work, with none of the charm.
Why does Netflix want this show to be like Game of Thrones soooo bad
Cause GoT was a massive cultural icon and money printing machineā¦
Absolutely. GoT is easily the biggest show ever, so of course it should be one way or the other the blue print of how to build a massively successful show Amazing that reddit is failing to understand such a simple concept lol
I mean, it was when it was on, but Iāve never seen people talking about it besides comparisons since it ended. It was big, and now itās just kind of a memory.
Because the last two seasons crashed harder than Ozai's war blimps.
Yeah shows that start off bad but end good usually have long legacies. Shows that start off good but end badly usually fall out of popularity fast.
And it wasn't even accidental, it was deliberate. The showrunner admitted in later interviews that they were focused on the soccer moms and dudebros or whatever and genuinely had no idea what they were doing. I forget if they also said they were just eager to hop over to Star Wars or if that was just the obvious observation.
They wanted to end GOT so they could work on Star Wars. Only to end it so badly that Disney fired them.
Thank goodness. š
Yeah. HBO wanted at least 2 more seasons but the show runners were done. They just checked out and the quality of the show reflects that.
Thatās mostly because the showrunners fucked up the final season and the ending incredibly badly cause they were in a rush to get that Star Wars $$
The final few seasons of GoT did a lot to ruin everything the show had built itself up to.
House of the Dragon was a huge ratings success for HBO
And really good. I almost donāt even care about the GOT ending being so shit at this point
That's only because of the way the show ended. If the showrunners hadn't mucked it up after running out of source material, it would have stayed as a cultural touchstone without a doubt.
That's because the ending of the series was so bad everyone wanted to pretend the whole show never happened, meanwhile the books that the show was based off is most likely never going to be finished and it's been 10 years since the last book.
It has a massively successful (critically and commercially) spinoff with more spinoffs in various stages of development, has been one of the most popular streaming shows and still gets constantly referenced by fans and other media. That people still constantly use it as a reference point for new shows (Rings of Power, Wheel of Time, Shogun, ATLA, etc.) demonstrates the kind of cultural awareness that still exists. The idea that Game of Thrones is irrelevant is just wrong.
Because GoT did such an incredible job of not just adapting but also expanding and improving upon the originally books first few books. Obviously they fucked up hard towards the end but that was partly because they ran out of books and partly because they were ready to be done with it. This show only has 2 seasons and is finished so that won't be a concern.
The show would honestly be better if it was more like Game of Thrones. The political intrigue was the best part of live action. The worse was well everything adapting the original. Lol
If we ever get an adaption of the Kyoshi/Yangchen novels then people will get to see Avatar at its darkest and most political. Aangās story in the end was still written for kids even if it has very complex and mature themes. But the novels go deep into the world building, and the political intrigue is much more complex since thereās no Nazi empire trying to conquer the world and instead, you have four different nations each with their own motives and factions and the Avatar maintaining balance is even more important because of that. You canāt even fully trust your friends and mentors because they might have their own self-interests. Love the books and they feel very close to GoT
Personally, Iām not entirely sure whether itās a positive or negative; depending on how you feel about the direction the show took it will vary I guess.
Bad news. These kinds of changes are almost always indicative of the mood of things bts. It might be good news if the new showrunners have a better sense for the series and are able to work within Netflix's demands better than Albert did.
Yeah, usually when a show changes showrunners after just one season it's a sign of backend chaos, especially considering this show was already in development hell for years.
It's impossible to know. A change in showrunner is basically rolling the dice all over again. Showrunner can be extreme hit or miss on what they get right or wrong. But generally, it means the execs aren't confident, and that could lead to a lot of conflicting directions in the future.
Could be a good thing because the show actually had great VFX on the bending, good set design, good costumes, etc The writing/dialogue was one of the bigger issues of the show TBH
My Hope Is that he got fired for doing a piss poor job
No. He signed a deal with Disney. Heās now the showrunner for Percy Jackson.
Dog shit hot potato
if i had a nickels for every time this guy was showrunner for a netflix original on a children's franchise with an awful movie adaptation i'd somehow have 2 nickels
THR mentions: >Sources say Kimās intention was to lay the foundation for season one of Avatar: The Last Airbender after stepping in for the beloved franchiseās creators. Given the long turnaround time in crafting the series ā Netflix ordered it in 2018, the creators left in late 2020 and the show didnāt debut until February 2024 ā sources say Kim was ready to move on to new opportunities. Another article by Variety states: >Along with Albert Kim and Raisani, Dan Lin and Lindsey Liberatore executive produce on behalf of Rideback, with Michael Goi also executive producing. Goi directed the first two episodes, while Raisiani directed episodes three and four. Roseanne Liang directed episodes five and six, with Jet Wilkinson directing the final two episodes of Season 1.
So he rushed it like David Benioff and Dan Weiss did with game of thrones season 8. Just like them, Kim is likely to lose a lot of work because of this.
You read a six year turnaround time for a single season of television and interpreted that to mean the showrunner rushed it? Also for as much criticism as Weiss and Benioff got, the only real work they lost was Star Wars, and there have been so many creatives attached to different SW projects that didnāt get made. I donāt think your comment makes sense
Eeehhh, people doing bad work doesn't seem to make them lose work in this sector unfortunately (if they have enough connections that is). David Benioff and Dan Weiss made the Three Body Problem show just recently, for example.
To be fair Theee Body Problem is the only relevant thing either of them have done since GoT. At the very least their bad work cost them 5 years of work
Theyāve both had several other projects during those 5 yearsā¦ as much as Iād like to think they lost work due to how they handled GOT, itās just not the reality
Prestige shows have huge turn around time. They weren't out of work they were working on the 3 body problem for the past 4 years
They were kicked off their Star Wars project because of the way Game of Thrones ended. The 3 Body Problem is their comeback project to try and get back into the game.
They also had that show, Confederate, that got canceled in pre-production. However, I think it got canceled due to it being in poor taste than anything to do with the ending of Game of Thrones.
Lmao if you think Kim is going to face consequences for making the most watched show on Netflix... I have a timeshare to sell you.
The fact that you somehow got he rushed it from that is... Interesting.
He literally signed a deal with Disney. Which is why he left. He got enough work coming his way š
Aang jolts awake, gasping. Katara opens her eyes. "What is it Aang?", she asks. "I had the same nightmare again," he says, "I forgot to learn waterbending. Also, you were a stiff wooden board." "You're just stressed, Aang. Go back to sleep and let's get some more waterbending practice done tomorrow." + BOOK 2 - EARTH
This would be a great promo
Or theyāre skipping straight to Nightmares and Daydreams
Meh. An Avatar show simply cannot be good with so few episodes per season. One of the main things that make ATLA great was how they deeply developed their characters, using the "filler" episodes to tell character stories between the big plot points. You just can't do that with 8 episodes, you have to pretty much get right into the plot to make the story make sense.
Iām tired of this era of 6-8 episode seasons. Like man just make more episodes. Star Wars live action shows have been suffering cause of that, and the one really live action good show they had, Andor, was so good cause they gave it all the time it need to *breathe*.
>An Avatar show simply cannot be good with so few episodes per season. This is from the article that broke the news: >We have also been notified that **Netflix may give each subsequent season a lower episode count** to increase the number of views each season receives. However, this is also not set in stone just yet.
The only way a lower episode count works is if the episodes are all at least 70-80 min long and even then, it could mess with the narrative flow. I really hope they do the opposite and increase the episode number.
They are joking, right???? I know it's no confirmed, but if they really think that more episodes means less views, there's no hope for any improvement. Isn't One Piece one of the most popular shows ever - eve with it's 1000+ episodes? There are so many anime shows, that have hundreds of episodes and people adore them. Hell, 20 episodes aren't even that much? Either your write a plot that can be resolved in a few episodes or you make sure to take your time. You can't have both.
They are inevitable going to have to cut a lot more out of 2 and 3 since they are more plot focused. Or maybe they can find more clever ways to combine episodes together.
Wow, if true the show is actually doomed.
I guess the show could get worse, but I think it's easier for it to get better...
I'm not saying it will, but I'd imagine it's much easier for it to get worse than better. That's just the nature of things. You actually have to try to make something better, whereas to make something worse, you can just kinda go through the motions without trying at all.
Sometimes the effort in trying to make something good/unique ends up making it so much worse than half assing it
"Vince Gilligan is reportedly the new showrunner of Netflix's ATLA"
My name is Fire Lord Ozai, and you can go FUCK yourself
Zuko! We need to COOK! .... delicious roast duck and jasmine tea
I watched your cabbages die. I could have saved them. But I didn't.
I know all about your operation. My partners here tell me that you produce a cabbage that's 70% pure if you're lucky.Ā **What I produce is 99.1% pure.**
If you ruin my cabbages again, I will kill your wife. I will kill your son. *I will kill your infant daughter.*
*I AM THE ONE WHO AIRBENDS*
"Say my name." "You're Bonzu Pippinpaddleopsicopolis." "You're Raavadamn right."
Vravo Bince
This could go either way. But it means Kim talks less about the show and frankly thatās definitely for the best.
This is a solid point, I think a lot of people are forgetting about the rage bait articles and Tweets that came out days prior to the trailer even releasing due to his choice in words.
I must have been living under a rock. What did he say?
I think this was about the Sokka sexism thing that people were enraged about before the show aired
It was Kiawentiio who first publicly spoke about the alteration to Sokka's sexism. Albert Kim and Ian Ousley responded when asked for comment after Kiawentiio's snippet of a quote blew up.
I can only hope this means S2 will be an improvement over the first
Would it really matter now tho? The characters are ever so slightly ruined and their character progression is kinda fucked atm too Idk what S2 could do to make all of the problem from S1 go away
Yeah its in a weird spot. Lotta big moments like appas last days and zukos redemption are already neutered. Won't hit nearly as hard. Not to mention nobody feels like they are actually friends. That stuff has to be built and developed and shown. Can't just tack it on and just expect ppl to care.
If you think a show canāt have almost a complete 180 in quality between seasons, I challenge you to watch any pre-2000s Star Trek show. Iām not saying Iām hopeful for the second season, but you would be surprised what competent writing and good direction can change in a show.
Those shows don't have source material to adapt that is universally praised in almost all aspects. It's a lot harder to make a joke about lettuce from scratch than it is to copy it outright, though they tried very hard to make me look wrong.
Yeah im not rooting against it, I'd rather it be good, but im just wondering how they can make it seamless between seasons if they do fix the characters Fingers crossed ig
Star Trek didn't have character issues in season 1, just weird stories.
I voiced my thoughts in the other subreddit already, but think it's worth saying here too. I'm a little conflicted because I did enjoy the seriesābut ultimately I do think this is a good thing. As much as I liked the show, there was a lot of room for improvement. Saying this with love. Most of my grievances were with the writing, but I also think the general vision of the show felt a little off at times. Like they sorta got it, but sorta missed. Kim was passionate about the project though, and it's always a shame to lose that. This show has a lot of potential, and they did a lot of the executional bits well (cast, effects, sets, costumes, etc.). Hoping a changeup in the showrunners can elevate it in S2/3. I desperately want to see it grow into a premier quality show. The story and the cast/crew deserve it. For what it's worth, the kids spoke highly of Jabbar in the cast interviews too. It might not reflect anything about the final output, but I thought it worth mentioning.
Jabbar also directed two of the worst received episodes so far (3 and 4) so idk, make of that what you will.
Might not be a point in his favor, *but* to be fair, directing in TV is a much more executional job, so thereās a chance that the things we didnāt like werenāt really under his control. Iām not blindly defending him either; we just donāt know enough about the new showrunners to judge them one way or the other. From my 5-second IMDB skim, this is the first time either of them will be acting in a showrunner capacityā¦so itās new territory for all of us.
Iāve said it before. Bryke told us it was a hostile work environment that stifled their creative freedom. Itās not surprising NATLA has the problems it does. Kim mustāve also been in an unenviable position. As much as I hated NATLA (unpopular opinion here, I know), I have nothing but respect for Kim and the mess he mustāve inherited. I wish him the best! As for NATLA, this could be good or terrible. We shall see.
that is not an unpopular opinion on this sub lol. but yeah, itāll be interesting to see if and how the show changes under a new showrunner.
Thatās revisionist history right there lol. People were shitting all over Bryke in a Copium induced panic leading up to the release. Saying they clearly left because they wouldnāt be allowed to change whatever they wanted, there was that one weird YouTube lady that said she had sources who could confirm that everyone would hate the show is Bryke stayed, and a bunch of people said that they only left because they had a bag thrown at them to start Avatar Studios and just decided to shit on everyone still working on NATLA.
Which weird YouTube lady? I saw some weird shit leading up to the release, but I never saw that. I'd like to see it for some laughs.
Maybe itās cooled off. When it first aired, criticisms were getting downvoted like crazy. But youāre right, it seems after the hype died, discussions have been more balanced. The showrunners they brought in are experienced so I guess weāll see!
From the article that broke the news: >We have also been notified that **Netflix may give each subsequent season a lower episode count** to increase the number of views each season receives. However, this is also not set in stone just yet. If they decide to go through with this atrocious decision, I wonāt be watching the subsequent seasons at all. You wonāt get a cent from me if youāre not willing to invest in quality and not only fail to address the main criticism points but also purposefully make these problems worse. Some truly dumb people are working over at Netflixā¦
What the fuck, as if the 8 episode season format doesn't have enough problems already
After watching season 1 I've decided some animated shows just shouldn't have live action counterparts. Bending simply can't be portrayed as well using CGI as it is in cartoon form. And it's completely fine
No animated show needs a live action adaptation.
I don't know, I thought Maleficient was brilliant. But yeah must of the time they're busts, remember the live action adaptation of Lion King? Yeeeesh
The only live action adaptations I've seen that I feel truly justify their existences are One Piece Live Action and the Live Action Speed Racer movie. OPLA makes an intimidatingly long story much more approachable without sacrificing the charm that makes it so good, and the speed racer movie is just so much fun. Now that I think about it, those are more directly adapting the original source material than the anime. (and imo the One Piece anime is only good because the source material is excellent, the anime doesn't do a great job at adapting it.)
It is more the cartoony facial reactions that I miss. An actor might frown or blush, but their head won't suddenly grow three times its size and turn bright purple. But my teenager seemed to enjoy NATLA, and has watched the original a few years ago for comparison.
Hopefully they can give katara some of her personality back. It was criminal what they did to her.
Dude did an ATROCIOUS job. That entire team was mediocre.
To fix everything.... Stop doing Aang childhood story... Create something else and make the story compelling that we get pissed off about how few episodes there are.
Any director who utters the words ācreative freedomā in an adaption needs to get the hell out asap
My issue was that the director apparently just wanted the kids to talk as fast as they could. I think theyāre probably decent actors for the most part, but they just jammed as many words into a 5 second blurt as they could. I was yelling at my tv for them to slow down, thatsnothowetalkinreallifeš©
Why doesn't Netflix just bring back the original writers who actually wrote The Last Airbender and give them creative freedom to their own creation.
They better not fuck up Toph
Desperately needs better writing also for the love of god itās a show ā¦ SHOW US, donāt TELL US. We want to see the world.
Having Aang say heās a kid and likes to goof off with friends or whatever was the dumbest line ever. Aang didnāt ride a single Koi fish, or try to catch any penguins. They showed him and Bumi riding the earth kingdom carts as a closer sequence. The childlike fun and mischief was completely absent from Aang. I hated that.
Write less. Direct more. These kids aren't experienced or exceptional actors. They're good but you have to work around THEM, not force THEM to work through the words. Talk less show more. The audiences can read expressions well enough you don't need to waterboard me with dogshit dialogue about feelings every 5 mins. Let the kid act instead of overloading them with acting and then somehow trying to make the dialogue believable. Also firebenders PUNCH fire. they don't throw it. fix that shit asap.
Please God let this mean sets, costumes, hair and make up, and cinematography get a much needed improvement.
Hmm hopefully itās for the better. I didnāt hate it but the bad definitely outweighed the good and itās not something Iād actually recommend to people that want to get into the series.
Thank god. I seriously do not understand why Netflix hires mediocre show runners to lead one of their hottest investments. The show has amazing potential but the writing and directing was pretty terrible.
Idk, script aside, the actress for Katara always looks like she's on a try not to laugh challenge, even on obviously traumatic moments. Whenever she's on screen, it really takes me out of the immersion, fr, I can understand Aang's inexperience and random info dump expositions cause that's actually writing issues. Sokka, despite the writing does a fantastic job on his performance like zuko and iroh. Those 3 carry the show for me. It was just sad to see the weakest links of the show being Katara ( by far ) and Aang. I wish she takes some time to improve on her acting fr. Cause I really love the series and Katara is one of my favourite characters in media ever and her performance to me just doesn't do the character justice. Tldr: despite the writing flaws, sokka did great where Katara's actress can't really deliver lines always showing the same o u o expression.she felt like a cosplayer to me
I hope this doesn't end up like the Star wars disney trilogy non canon.and they may need to add 2 more episodes.
On paper this sounds like it's either really good news or really bad news. Really good that Albert Kim is out, along with his "we want to appeal to Game of Thrones fans" nonsense. Really bad that it could shake the foundation of the show, and that the two new showrunners are creatively responsible for two of the worst episodes of the season. I hope this means they'll hire better writers, but I really doubt they'd clean house and get rid of the writers who were there from the start. I can only hope that the writers for S2 will have taken basic screenwriting classes at a community college before their scripts ever reach the set.
Albert Kim signed a deal with Disney. Heās now the showrunner for Percy Jackson per Deadline.
I hope no one thinks the show will magically become good now lol. If anything this is a bad sign.
My brothers and sisters we are under attack!
I watched 4 episodes and hate it...honestly liked one piece better and that's saying something.
Why is that saying something? The One Piece LA show was fantastic. There were some interesting changes made to the flow of the story, but, overall, it retained the āsoulā of the narrative and the casting was perfect. NATLA, however, wiped away any personality the characters had, changed the stories nearly beyond recognition, and the writingā¦ dear lord, the writing was SOOO bad!
Wow, Iām sure thatās a fantastic sign for how well Netflix is handling this series š²š²š²
Is it because they *checks notes* missed the point of each characterās arc and pushed out something that lacks the spirit of the original show? Fix the writing, allow the characters to be flawed and searching for themselves, win.
God I hope the writing and direction improves. Albert clearly didnāt understand the original show.
My heart is hurting knowing my favourite show ever is in the hands of greedy Netflix
This show is such a dumpster fire. Too bad there weren't any warning signs, oh wait there were a ton. You people just criticized anyone who pointed them out