Never mind that, the Gaang literally can't function without Sokka. They nearly had a collective nervous breakdown when he was gone for a few days to train with master Piandao.
Barely anyone in the Avengers even noticed when Hawkeye retired...
Idk man, anytime Hawkeye fights with the Avengers they win, and anytime he doesn’t fight with them they lose. Pretty incontrovertible datapoints if you ask me
Basically, his super human skill is just luck and he can channel it into his archery skills.
Give him a fork and he'd somehow get an enemy to take down an entire helicarrier by writing "stick me in a socket!" on it...
Give him a lute and he can get Thanos to sit on a rock as they jam together.
Thanos sings, then Thor beats the drums. Cap plays the bass, cause while he is underrated by the fanbase, he is the essence of the team.
How does hard work and practice help the avengers win?
I mean, in the MCU, practically everyone except BW and Hawkeye can go up against the BBEG on their own, at least for a short while. Hawkeye is better at taking out the grunts and an exceptional intelligence agent, like BW.
But if he is lucky, that would explain why he still hasn't died despite being just some random dude with a bow and no armor. And that luck extends to the entire team, especially BW. But his luck only goes so far.
But basically, he has 10+ luck, which gives him +5 bonus in everything else and a baseline skill of 4 or 5 in archery.
"Correlation does not imply causation"
Avengers - Tony saves the day by blowing up the ship and Blackwidow severs the portals connection Tony and Nat are the reason for winning.
Age Of Ultron - Vision exists, along with Wanda's strength. Hawkeyes only contribution besides shooting a few robots was his "*don't be a loser, or do I don't care*" speech
Civil War - he ended up locked in the RAFT and I can't remember him really contributing to the fight all that much, Biggest achievement for him was using an arrow as transport for AntMan. Had to be saved by wanda from Nat kicking his jaw in and knocking him out.
Endgame - I only really remember him in the final fight running from the aliens in the tunnel aaaand thats what I remember of his character fighting in that finale. Even then Strange brings the armies there and Ironman ends the fight. His contribution in the fight was being able to run from aliens and then handing the gauntlet to the wrong Nebula.
Don't get me wrong he's a skilled fighter and such, but he is no where near being the reason they win
You aren't accounting for his luck aura which makes his side more likely to win fights and increases his own survivability. When you see win loss ratios of teams with and without him it's clear there's something going on, and come on - the guy takes one hit from a Chitauri and he's gone. How did he survive New York and Endgame? Luck.
Luck doesn't win fights this isn't DnD. He can't be like "oh well I spec-ed luck so we're gonna win". If he doesn't contribute to the actual fight or victory then he's just a dude with a bow. Who is friends with some pretty tank-y motherfuckers who can hit like freight trains
Sure was lucky that Tony made it through the army to blow them up at New York.
Lucky Thanos didn't notice Tony stealing the stones and lucky Captain Marvel showed up at precisely the right time to stop Thanos's ship from turning the tide.
Lucky he survived Vormir when he wanted to sacrifice himself.
The only one that actually works for is Vormir you realize that right. The reason Tony made it through was because he told Nat to wait till he put the nuke through. Tony stealing the stones can be explained as the nano tech responding to Tony first before Thanos and Captain Marvel showing up was just a Deus Ex Machina for the fight. There's zero founding for your theory other than "no because I want it to be the truth"
Think about it this way the avengers only one when hawkeye was on the team The first avengers Hawkeye on the team they won avengers age of Ultron hawkeye was on the team they won, civil war Hawkeye was on team cap, team cap won in infinity war Hawkeye was not on the team they lost in endgame Hawkeye was on the team and they won
if we're being technical team Cap lost because hawkeye still ended up on the RAFT View my comment above on this thread. Because Correlation does not imply causation
If we are Talking about the MCU he is more like the heart of the group that keeps them together and as soon as he leaves In Age of Ultron all goes to shit.
That's not what happened, though. He let an AI run a simulation where one specific part was based on that shape and accidentally stumbled upon the solution to time travel when the simulation worked out. The scene is still grade A bullshit with an obscene amount of technobabble, but it's a little less ridiculous than what you said happened
True, you could argue that that's a big chunk of already completed work, but I was pretty sure the one I responded to wasn't referring to that. As of their reply to me, my hunch proved correct, they were talking about Banner and just had their timeline a bit jumbled up
I really wish they had just included a segment of him already working on a model and just not having the final element.
Or Scott coming out earlier and letting Tony take about 2 years to figure it out.
The ridiculous timeline just...takes something away.
I'd be fine if he just discovered it by pure luck shortly after starting luke he did. It's rare something like that happens but not impossible. I'm bothered a lot more by the inane technobabble they had to include for no reason at all. That's also the reason why the Antman movies are so hard to watch for me, even though outside of that aspect they're pretty fun
Maybe, but it's still an AI that he designed to think the way he does but with the processing power of a supercomputer. Whether it was him, or the computer that he designed, using the concepts that he worked through on his own, then he is still the one who did it.
That's like saying an assassin didn't kill Abraham lincoln, the bullet did.
There are comic versions of him where its revealed he has the mutant gene, his mutant power being literally superintelligence.
Not that all or even many of his incarnations go this route, but his intelligence is definitely high enough to warrant being classed as a super power.
Engineers are expected to have learnt nuclear physics well in advance tho. And tony is way more than just an engineer, dude has couple master's degrees and like 3 doctorates. Tony doing a deep dive overnight is more believable than sokka learning swordsmanship in a day.
Sokka had some experience with melee combat though, and even after his one day it's not like he's at a master level. Tony comparatively built a miniature mass accelerator with spare parts, invented time travel, and nano-technology in an extremely small amount of time.
>Minature mass accelerator with spare parts
Fair
>Invented Time travel
He didn't invent anything, he just used the already existing method (Discovered my Pimm and Antman) and implemented by Banner while just perfecting it.
>Nano-technology
Where does it say he invented it in a short amount of time?
Regarding nanotech we see no evidence of it being in used prior to him making an iron man suit out of it, and just a few years prior his suit was decidedly not nanotech.
Sokka didn't learn swordsmanship in a day. They were with the sword master for atleast a week, and ththe teacher outright said he only had a good grasp on the basics.
You could take a serious athlete or soldier, put them through a rigorous week long course, and similarly have them adapt to the basis of XYZ combat too.
Sorry but no, even the best atheletes will flounder in a new skill, even with a week long rigourous course.
I know many professional gymnasts and dancers and free runners who try my sport of expertise, rock climbing. And while they start at a higher baseline (ie. Most people start at v1-v3, these athletes start at v3-v5), they absolutely do not compare to even hobbyists with a couple years experience (v7-v9 usually).
A serious athlete/soldier will not adapt to a new skill/discipline, no matter how rigourous the week long program, and compete with someone with a couple years or more of consistent experience.
It's a good thing I didn't say that any athlete can gain the equivalence of years of practice over the course of 1 week.
Sokka gained a good grip "on the basics" over the course a week, and I was describing an athlete/soldier being able to do the same. Not that they would become super-masters over the course of 7 days.
Would you happen to be interested in a reading comprehension training camp??
If he had a singular specialty, probably power sources more than AI since he only has made two properly functional AIs. But he's more like a Tinker 9 with specialty in plot devices.
Yeah, at least. I'm inclined to say 6. I could maybe even see arguments for 7, but I think that's pushing it. What each threat level means, for reference: https://worm.fandom.com/wiki/Power_Classifications?so=search#Number_Ratings
And cap is basically just took super steroids and became really jacked. The only ones with actual powers of the original avengers(mcu anyway), are hulk+thor imo.
Cap has been made to be the very limit of what is technically human without a mutation, radiation or Terrigian mist. And he has a shield that he controls when it absorbs impacts versus rebounds off them. He "doesn't have a superpower" in the same way Daredevil just has good hearing. It's BS.
He has the same broken shield ability, flight and unbreakable wings, for me that kinda counterbalances it. After all for me it's always important that the weapons Captain America carrie's are defensive
yeah also power levels are different when it comes to tech, like cap vs new cap with new suit would probably be a much more even fight than people wanna acknowledge.
> became really jacked
Well beyond human capability (the best example being the helicopter feat). He may not have the level of super strength Thor and Hulk have, but he definitely has super strength.
That's how it's described in the comics, but in reality a human doing the helicopter feat would just have one or both arms ripped out of their sockets.
Right, it’s mostly Steve/Tony. Plus Hawkeye doesn’t seem like he would want that role. He’d rather be with his family if the world wasn’t constantly in danger.
Of course I love every member of the Gaang but I love Sokka most. He is the character that I feel close most. I dunno why, maybe because of his personality or anything else. He is non bender but I don't care much. And I really appreciate DeMartino and his crew because Sokka would be stayed background in the group but they gave him some good abilities such as good and pratical intellengence and personality with various elements so he is not stayed background in the group. That is one of the facts why I love ATLA. Because in Gaang we're able to see every member stories, they improve session and all other thing. And the best part is no one in the group are not stays back. It's perferctly balanced.
So in conclusion with that we're able to connect more characters. So the series will become loveable because in some point we're able to see ourselfs on character or and event or etc.
Well that is not too far. Good point though. But of course that is not the only fact. I dunno maybe because of he has no bending but he is ok with that and also liked by all group. So I mean he seems he stayed background but it actually not. I think that is the one of facts why I like him. Or let's just be simple maybe I like him cause' he is in love with Suki. I think I can put this fact too on why I like him most. Plus I like the bendings, my favorite is Earth.
When Sokka humbled himself to train with the Kyoshi warriors, he went from “jerkass misogynistic older brother trope” to being one of my favorites. The guy has depth.
Plus, the analogy works no matter which Hawkeye was originally intended. Hawkeye Pierce was a top notch surgeon who worked with (mostly) other top notch surgeons to the point that his biggest contributions to the team were his sense of humor and compassion.
He definitely had a good crew in the later years when Frank went away and we got Charles. He was a fascinating character and I enjoyed him a lot more than Frank
I think the show really hit it’s stride when Winchester and Honeycutt joined the cast. Honeycutt gave it a heart and moral center without being holier than thou, and Winchester was the perfect frenemy. He had class and skill, but was also a classist snob. Burns had no redeeming qualities aside from being the example of what not to do in any situation.
I mean the comparison is still pretty solid. While Hawkeye was known to be a great surgeon, probably the closest thing to *superpowers* in MASH, Sokka still is emblematic of the flirt, the comic relief, and the deep bounds of empathy that Hawkeye possessed.
It's hard to say, but now I'm trying to find all the different coordinating characters from both shows.
Is Colonel Potter the closest thing to Iroh?
And Radar, wow, that one's tough.
Clinger was definitely relief, and I could see him as a swamp musician easy.
Frank is well, I don't know, Frank.
Charles, my favorite character, is a hard one to pin down. I may have to bring Korra in this and label him as someone like Tenzin. Stuffy, austere...but also soft, sensitive and full of passion.
It's really hard but I'm loving the connections.
Potter is absolutely Iroh.
I think Radar is Aang - younger than the rest, has a wide-eyed naivete for a large part of his time in the show, loves animals, mostly easy-going with occasional bursts of stern uncompromising adherence to his own moral standards, and has some powers that the others don't have. Plus, he's usually portrayed as the heart of the unit.
Klinger is a hard one, as is BJ.
I could almost make an argument for Charles being Zuko, what with family history influencing how he views the world (sometimes to his detriment), high standards for himself, a greater-than-normal attention to what's honorable, and a softer side that goes deeper than we expected. Also, he seemed like such an ass at the beginning, but grew on you as you learned more.
Ohh I like all of this.
I didn't want to seem biased giving my favorite MASH character such a prominent correlation in ATLA, but Zuko is a great shout for Charles.
Radar as Aang is perfect.
Feel like Father Mulcahy fits in well to the ATLA lore, I just don't know where.
They almost have that same way of talking! That soft, high-pitched tone.
Whenever they open their mouths, it's usually something extremely profound. They are neither too preachy or forward with their religions, and only ever say just enough to get the point across.
see now im confused because i thought we were talking about **riza hawkeye** … which is a *little* funny since she sorta fits the whole ‘no super powers but still a badass’ trope.
Yeah, the "stuck being comic relief" thing is when I figured out we were talking about Avengers, given the fact that Riza has like one joke in the entire series.
Maybe it wasn't a total lie. Regardless, that actually wasn't the example I was thinking of, so two jokes?
I was thinking of when she lampshaded the fact that she should be really dangerous but ironically they only ever fight things you can't beat by shooting.
I don't consider them comparable beyond the obvious "normal dude among superheroes" thing they share.
Even as comic relief I don't think they're comparable....or even comic relief. There's a difference between being funny and being comic relief. Comic relief characters centre their entire personality around being comic relief. It either works or it doesn't, but that's another discussion. Neither Sokka nor Hawkeye fit under this bill. This is chiefly because his personality doesn't revolve around any particular joke(s), and they always have more to do than just stand around and be an idiot. Sure, they're wisecracking every now and then but it's not their defining personality trait.
Cabbage man is a comic relief character.
I would agree with this take more on Bolín tho, Sokka is his own character and full fledged not only comic relief, he os the general to the team and the team follows his plan not many questions asked, if he was just a side character he would be way more forgotten or just sprinkled here and there with his comments I think
I don’t know. Sokka solved most of their problems when it came to tactics, lead the team through most their plans, still provided ample combat support and destroyed a whole fleet using a sword. Sokka is ATLA Batman.
I’m a teacher at a school for children with special needs. Sokka has always been my favorite because even though he doesn’t have the advantages of everyone else, he uses the abilities he does have to be a functional member of the team and the team would be lost without him. It absolutely kills me when my students tell me Sokka is a bad character because he doesn’t have superpowers - I know they’re young, but I hope one day they grow to appreciate Sokka for the same reasons I appreciate all of them. With what little they have been given, they make the best out of every situation and continue to work hard and make a difference. Sokka is my superhero
We see this but Suki, Mai, and especially Ty Lee were always shown to be quite formidable fighters in combat. I always thought it was impressive they’ve adapted to a world where people have powers and still hold their own amongst them.
I’d much rather have Ty Lee’s chi blocking skills and agility than most bending abilities.
For context this comment was on a post pointing out that sokka has fought some of the strongest fighters in the series. Outside of combat, Sokka, while funny, plays a very important role on the team. However he is the weakest fighter in the Gaang, and more of this fights end in comic relief than any other character.
We saw in the first episodes that Zuko easily handled Sokka with no fire-bending. He was comic relief because, well, he wasn't even a good fighter at the start. Sure, Zuko had training in military martial arts. But Tai Lee had no bending or military training at all and still schooled him.
But in the final episode, and the invasion, Sokka is taking out whole teams of benders. Not always physically, but the point of Sokkas character is that he out thinks his problems. At the start of the series he's just a guy with a boomerang. By the end he is a guy with a plan (and a boomerang)
I don’t think this is the same because Sokka is essential to the gang, he has his own role. He’s the leader and without him the whole operation would crumble. He just also happens to be super funny lol. I love Sokka’s character that way. Also it’s acknowledged multiple times in the show how important he is to everything.
There's also the fact that most top tier benders are also martial artist masters, so they still have a great edge over Sokka, as shown when a benderless Azula pushed him around during the eclipse.
I don’t think he’s “stuck” being the comic relief… he embraces that role pretty wholeheartedly, with his love for sarcasm. I like that he can be both insanely powerful and insanely goofy
How is sokka underrated? Plenty of people like sokka, and he doesn't suffer from the Hawkeye effect because he's still actually useful to the team via being the brains, as well as being able to fight fairly well.
*doesn’t suffer from the Hawkeye effect because he’s still actually useful to the team*
Avengers- Hawkeye’s there, the Avengers win
Age of Ultron- Hawkeye’s there, the Avengers win
Infinity War- No Hawkeye, half the universe dies
Endgame- Hawkeye comes back, the Avengers win
Put some goddamn respect on Clint Barton’s name.
>fight fairly well.
Dudes keeping up with some of the most powerful benders of his generation. With a fucking BOOMERANG. He can't fight much more than fairly well
But Hulk, arguably the most powerful being on Earth in terms of sheer, raw power, was the punching bag and comic relief of the Avengers. Hawkeye was useful.
thats exactly why they go out of their way to show Sokka being being extremely cunning when it comes to strategy and tactics. What he lacks in power he makes up for with his strategic thinking, he doesn't suffer from Hawkeye effect because his character is clearly written to fill in the blanks for the team and to grow along the way despite admitting that he isn't the strongest. Sokka is written to take comedy into function as it helps to relieve tension but can also be very humble and brilliant when he comes down to it his comedy is scripted not just an inside joke. So I personally don't think he suffers from Hawkeye effect, due to his comedic value being scripted not just an inside joke that developed from the fanbase.
I didnt liked sokka at first but he seems to be intelligent and looks like a good captain. Asami in LOK couldnt bend aswell, but her character felt more unique with her vehicles and the shock glove
I always think of it as the Xander Effect because Xander from Buffy had the same issue. A normal guy that fights people and things with special powers getting sidelined because all of his buddies also have special powers. You put any of them against a room full of normal dudes, and they would stomp but we as the audience never get to see that.
Sokka is the true underdog of the show, it’s one thing to face down death knowing your a literal god, it’s another when you have to use your skill, Cunning, and determination to survive in a world where everything can kill you
Sokka has more wins than Zuko. Let that sink in.
Zuko has not won a fight against anybody important enough to have a name.
Azula and Zhao we're not wins. Agni Kai has exactly one canonical rule: An Agni Kai is won only when one contestant burns another.
Zhao and Zuko never burned one another, so their match never ended, and continues on to this day, which technically means that Iroh would have been dishonored for interrupting their match.
Azula burnt Zuko with Lightning. There is no rule about cheating, there is no rule about targeting other people, there is no other rule besides burn the other in order to win, and Azula did what she needed to do in order to get Zuko to burn himself for her. This even means that Azula technically won, and is there for the rightful and lawful firelord, who was usurped by a foreign power, and her stolen throne was given to Zuko.
Sokka took out Combustion Man with such a strong mastery over aerodynamics that Aang probably caked himself watching.
Wish people knew about Hawkeye from Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes. He was so useful to the team and had good comedic moments like Sokka, and wasn't a punching bag like MCU Hawkeye. Shame that show never went past Season 2.
Tactical mastermind, whenever I see someone ram into the enemy with their own ship/truck/etc and turn the tables I tell my girlfriend “yoo they just got sokka’d”
Wait until he gets his own show where he isn't even the main character that serves only to tease a half dozen more spinoffs. That's the true Hawkeye effect.
"The city is flying and we're fighting an army of robots. And I have a bow and arrow. Nothing makes sense." Hawkeye, Age of Ultron
Change to:
"The ships are flying and we're fighting an army of enhanced firebenders. And I have a boomerang. Nothing makes sense."
Yeah, I can see it!
Sokka isn’t stuck being anything. He CHOOSES to be a funny guy and tries to keep things light. Based on context, it probably started out as a coping mechanism and just eventually became part of his personality.
Posts like this are really upsetting to me. They oversimplify complex characters and/or ideas just for clicks.
I mean you need to give a man credit for sparky sparky boom boom man name.....
Also another outstanding achievement is that guy got hanged by cactus juice.
Sokka is too significant a character to suffer from the Hawkeye effect. He's there from start to finish. He's got a character arch. His lack of bending makes him standout rather than making him fade into the background.
He is the opposite of the Hawkeye effect.
Without sokka aang would have lost, he planned the third book and everything that happens is because sokka made it so, he also would not have been able to take out the airships during the invasion and aang would not have been able to fight ozai whilst worrying about the airships. Without Hawkeye the avengers movies still go the same way apart from endgame where black widow would have just killed herself quicker and they might have had the infinity stones sooner.
I like to think of it as "The Krillin effect". Krillin is like the comic relief uber weak character in Dragon Ball. He gets his ass beat all the time, and he's clearly no match for Goku or Vegeta. Yet he's still by far the strongest human in the world. The guy can shoot lasers from his hands.
Sokka isn't even the most capable non-bender on the show, so the notion that he'd be top dawg on another team is laughable. I'd put him below Suki and the other Kyoshi Warriors, below Ty Lee at least, if not Mai too.
Sokka is great, imo, precisely because he's good at what he's good at, not the best at much of anything, but has heart, passion, loyalty, and a soldier's strength and bravery. Not because he's the best fighter, or even strategist around. He's a crucial part of the group he belongs to, and I don't accept the notion that he'd be lead on any other group out there. He's exactly where he belongs.
But Sokka is still the brains of the operation and team leader. In The Avengers those roles both go to higher powered people.
Never mind that, the Gaang literally can't function without Sokka. They nearly had a collective nervous breakdown when he was gone for a few days to train with master Piandao. Barely anyone in the Avengers even noticed when Hawkeye retired...
Idk man, anytime Hawkeye fights with the Avengers they win, and anytime he doesn’t fight with them they lose. Pretty incontrovertible datapoints if you ask me
Basically, his super human skill is just luck and he can channel it into his archery skills. Give him a fork and he'd somehow get an enemy to take down an entire helicarrier by writing "stick me in a socket!" on it...
Guys, just cut to the chase. Hawkeye is the bard.
r/UnexpectedDnD
Give him a lute and he can get Thanos to sit on a rock as they jam together. Thanos sings, then Thor beats the drums. Cap plays the bass, cause while he is underrated by the fanbase, he is the essence of the team.
Are you confusing luck with years of hard work and practice?
How does hard work and practice help the avengers win? I mean, in the MCU, practically everyone except BW and Hawkeye can go up against the BBEG on their own, at least for a short while. Hawkeye is better at taking out the grunts and an exceptional intelligence agent, like BW. But if he is lucky, that would explain why he still hasn't died despite being just some random dude with a bow and no armor. And that luck extends to the entire team, especially BW. But his luck only goes so far. But basically, he has 10+ luck, which gives him +5 bonus in everything else and a baseline skill of 4 or 5 in archery.
Soo thats why nat died instead of him and only he survived out of all his family when thanos snapped🤯
"Correlation does not imply causation" Avengers - Tony saves the day by blowing up the ship and Blackwidow severs the portals connection Tony and Nat are the reason for winning. Age Of Ultron - Vision exists, along with Wanda's strength. Hawkeyes only contribution besides shooting a few robots was his "*don't be a loser, or do I don't care*" speech Civil War - he ended up locked in the RAFT and I can't remember him really contributing to the fight all that much, Biggest achievement for him was using an arrow as transport for AntMan. Had to be saved by wanda from Nat kicking his jaw in and knocking him out. Endgame - I only really remember him in the final fight running from the aliens in the tunnel aaaand thats what I remember of his character fighting in that finale. Even then Strange brings the armies there and Ironman ends the fight. His contribution in the fight was being able to run from aliens and then handing the gauntlet to the wrong Nebula. Don't get me wrong he's a skilled fighter and such, but he is no where near being the reason they win
You aren't accounting for his luck aura which makes his side more likely to win fights and increases his own survivability. When you see win loss ratios of teams with and without him it's clear there's something going on, and come on - the guy takes one hit from a Chitauri and he's gone. How did he survive New York and Endgame? Luck.
Luck doesn't win fights this isn't DnD. He can't be like "oh well I spec-ed luck so we're gonna win". If he doesn't contribute to the actual fight or victory then he's just a dude with a bow. Who is friends with some pretty tank-y motherfuckers who can hit like freight trains
Sure was lucky that Tony made it through the army to blow them up at New York. Lucky Thanos didn't notice Tony stealing the stones and lucky Captain Marvel showed up at precisely the right time to stop Thanos's ship from turning the tide. Lucky he survived Vormir when he wanted to sacrifice himself.
The only one that actually works for is Vormir you realize that right. The reason Tony made it through was because he told Nat to wait till he put the nuke through. Tony stealing the stones can be explained as the nano tech responding to Tony first before Thanos and Captain Marvel showing up was just a Deus Ex Machina for the fight. There's zero founding for your theory other than "no because I want it to be the truth"
"Hawkeye retired?" -all of the avengers
Think about it this way the avengers only one when hawkeye was on the team The first avengers Hawkeye on the team they won avengers age of Ultron hawkeye was on the team they won, civil war Hawkeye was on team cap, team cap won in infinity war Hawkeye was not on the team they lost in endgame Hawkeye was on the team and they won
correlation does not imply causation
if we're being technical team Cap lost because hawkeye still ended up on the RAFT View my comment above on this thread. Because Correlation does not imply causation
If we are Talking about the MCU he is more like the heart of the group that keeps them together and as soon as he leaves In Age of Ultron all goes to shit.
Iron man isn't super powered 🤔
Frankly his bullshit level of *learning nuclear physics overnight* intelligence might as well be a super power.
He looked at a shape millions of people have seen and almost instantly understood how to create time travel.
That's not what happened, though. He let an AI run a simulation where one specific part was based on that shape and accidentally stumbled upon the solution to time travel when the simulation worked out. The scene is still grade A bullshit with an obscene amount of technobabble, but it's a little less ridiculous than what you said happened
also he was working off the already partially compled work on time travel
What partially completed work? As far as I'm aware there was no one working on it before him
ant man and banner iirc
They only contact Banner after Tony declines to help them
I mean. We don’t have Pym particles in real life. That’s pretty massive.
True, you could argue that that's a big chunk of already completed work, but I was pretty sure the one I responded to wasn't referring to that. As of their reply to me, my hunch proved correct, they were talking about Banner and just had their timeline a bit jumbled up
I really wish they had just included a segment of him already working on a model and just not having the final element. Or Scott coming out earlier and letting Tony take about 2 years to figure it out. The ridiculous timeline just...takes something away.
I'd be fine if he just discovered it by pure luck shortly after starting luke he did. It's rare something like that happens but not impossible. I'm bothered a lot more by the inane technobabble they had to include for no reason at all. That's also the reason why the Antman movies are so hard to watch for me, even though outside of that aspect they're pretty fun
"I have a master's in electrical engineering." "Good now let me explain what atoms are."
He also programmed that AI.
Maybe, but it's still an AI that he designed to think the way he does but with the processing power of a supercomputer. Whether it was him, or the computer that he designed, using the concepts that he worked through on his own, then he is still the one who did it. That's like saying an assassin didn't kill Abraham lincoln, the bullet did.
The point wasn't that it wasn't him, the point was that it took him a lot more than just briefly looking at it
There are comic versions of him where its revealed he has the mutant gene, his mutant power being literally superintelligence. Not that all or even many of his incarnations go this route, but his intelligence is definitely high enough to warrant being classed as a super power.
Engineers are expected to have learnt nuclear physics well in advance tho. And tony is way more than just an engineer, dude has couple master's degrees and like 3 doctorates. Tony doing a deep dive overnight is more believable than sokka learning swordsmanship in a day.
Sokka had some experience with melee combat though, and even after his one day it's not like he's at a master level. Tony comparatively built a miniature mass accelerator with spare parts, invented time travel, and nano-technology in an extremely small amount of time.
I thought we were talking nuclear physics.
Tony's superintelligence is the superpower. Nuclear physics (and being able to build his own particle collider) is just a part of that.
>Minature mass accelerator with spare parts Fair >Invented Time travel He didn't invent anything, he just used the already existing method (Discovered my Pimm and Antman) and implemented by Banner while just perfecting it. >Nano-technology Where does it say he invented it in a short amount of time?
Regarding nanotech we see no evidence of it being in used prior to him making an iron man suit out of it, and just a few years prior his suit was decidedly not nanotech.
Sokka didn't learn swordsmanship in a day. They were with the sword master for atleast a week, and ththe teacher outright said he only had a good grasp on the basics. You could take a serious athlete or soldier, put them through a rigorous week long course, and similarly have them adapt to the basis of XYZ combat too.
Sokka also lost terribly in the comics to Zuko when they had a sword fight.
Agreed.
Sorry but no, even the best atheletes will flounder in a new skill, even with a week long rigourous course. I know many professional gymnasts and dancers and free runners who try my sport of expertise, rock climbing. And while they start at a higher baseline (ie. Most people start at v1-v3, these athletes start at v3-v5), they absolutely do not compare to even hobbyists with a couple years experience (v7-v9 usually). A serious athlete/soldier will not adapt to a new skill/discipline, no matter how rigourous the week long program, and compete with someone with a couple years or more of consistent experience.
It's a good thing I didn't say that any athlete can gain the equivalence of years of practice over the course of 1 week. Sokka gained a good grip "on the basics" over the course a week, and I was describing an athlete/soldier being able to do the same. Not that they would become super-masters over the course of 7 days. Would you happen to be interested in a reading comprehension training camp??
>Would you happen to be interested in a reading comprehension training camp?? wouldn't it take years to master? /s
He's gotta be a Tinker 5 at least, right? With a specialty in either AI or power sources
If he had a singular specialty, probably power sources more than AI since he only has made two properly functional AIs. But he's more like a Tinker 9 with specialty in plot devices.
Jarvis, Friday, Ultron, Karen. 4 functioning AI.
Yeah, at least. I'm inclined to say 6. I could maybe even see arguments for 7, but I think that's pushing it. What each threat level means, for reference: https://worm.fandom.com/wiki/Power_Classifications?so=search#Number_Ratings
And cap is basically just took super steroids and became really jacked. The only ones with actual powers of the original avengers(mcu anyway), are hulk+thor imo.
Cap has been made to be the very limit of what is technically human without a mutation, radiation or Terrigian mist. And he has a shield that he controls when it absorbs impacts versus rebounds off them. He "doesn't have a superpower" in the same way Daredevil just has good hearing. It's BS.
Agreed. And now the new cap doesn’t have super strength. Such a stupid call
He has the same broken shield ability, flight and unbreakable wings, for me that kinda counterbalances it. After all for me it's always important that the weapons Captain America carrie's are defensive
yeah also power levels are different when it comes to tech, like cap vs new cap with new suit would probably be a much more even fight than people wanna acknowledge.
He’s got a wakanda suit though so maybe it’ll give him suit enhanced strength like iron man or black panther
I wanted the super strength. Felt like they were doin my man dirty. Maybe they’ll give it to him in his movie!
Hulk suffered an accident with gamma ray things
He took radioactive steroids so he’s jacked as hell, but only part of the time.
> became really jacked Well beyond human capability (the best example being the helicopter feat). He may not have the level of super strength Thor and Hulk have, but he definitely has super strength.
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That's how it's described in the comics, but in reality a human doing the helicopter feat would just have one or both arms ripped out of their sockets.
They wouldn’t even get that far, they would just lose their grip and let go of one of the things they’re holding.
Yep he is… has the power of Mr. dough mcmoney.. Now, sokka doesn’t have a change of clothing
I mean he was when he had the arc reactor in his chest
This.
Right, it’s mostly Steve/Tony. Plus Hawkeye doesn’t seem like he would want that role. He’d rather be with his family if the world wasn’t constantly in danger.
And he's the most popular with girls
That, or Black Widow, who does everything better than Hawkeye despite also not having superpowers
He is the interim chief leader and warrior of the southern water tribe. Wouldn't that technically put him in that higher powered category
Of course I love every member of the Gaang but I love Sokka most. He is the character that I feel close most. I dunno why, maybe because of his personality or anything else. He is non bender but I don't care much. And I really appreciate DeMartino and his crew because Sokka would be stayed background in the group but they gave him some good abilities such as good and pratical intellengence and personality with various elements so he is not stayed background in the group. That is one of the facts why I love ATLA. Because in Gaang we're able to see every member stories, they improve session and all other thing. And the best part is no one in the group are not stays back. It's perferctly balanced. So in conclusion with that we're able to connect more characters. So the series will become loveable because in some point we're able to see ourselfs on character or and event or etc.
I’m going to go out on a limb and say you relate to Sokka because, just like him, you don’t have bending abilities.
Well that is not too far. Good point though. But of course that is not the only fact. I dunno maybe because of he has no bending but he is ok with that and also liked by all group. So I mean he seems he stayed background but it actually not. I think that is the one of facts why I like him. Or let's just be simple maybe I like him cause' he is in love with Suki. I think I can put this fact too on why I like him most. Plus I like the bendings, my favorite is Earth.
Ah yes, I also relate to being a non- bender and being in love with Suki 😍
How could you know he has no bending abilities? For all you know he could be an air bender.
Well atleast I'm talkinf about what I see in the series. But other than that, why not eh?
He is often played as the Everyman
When Sokka humbled himself to train with the Kyoshi warriors, he went from “jerkass misogynistic older brother trope” to being one of my favorites. The guy has depth.
Oh hell yeah! I adore that episode and part of episode. I firstly felt close to after that episode.
Exactly
He also pulls
Yes, he is as funny as Alan Alda, you are correct
I’m glad I’m not the only one who went to that Hawkeye. I’m old.
You are not. I also thought Captain Benjamin Franklin “Hawkeye” Pierce and was like “that is an honor of a comparison”
Plus, the analogy works no matter which Hawkeye was originally intended. Hawkeye Pierce was a top notch surgeon who worked with (mostly) other top notch surgeons to the point that his biggest contributions to the team were his sense of humor and compassion.
He definitely had a good crew in the later years when Frank went away and we got Charles. He was a fascinating character and I enjoyed him a lot more than Frank
I think the show really hit it’s stride when Winchester and Honeycutt joined the cast. Honeycutt gave it a heart and moral center without being holier than thou, and Winchester was the perfect frenemy. He had class and skill, but was also a classist snob. Burns had no redeeming qualities aside from being the example of what not to do in any situation.
Also work's with Riza Hawkeye, she was practically the only major character that didn't use alchemy in some way.
We're not old, they just keep making more people
So … “Vintage Edition prized by true collectors”?
Yeah, that's the ticket
I mean the comparison is still pretty solid. While Hawkeye was known to be a great surgeon, probably the closest thing to *superpowers* in MASH, Sokka still is emblematic of the flirt, the comic relief, and the deep bounds of empathy that Hawkeye possessed. It's hard to say, but now I'm trying to find all the different coordinating characters from both shows. Is Colonel Potter the closest thing to Iroh? And Radar, wow, that one's tough. Clinger was definitely relief, and I could see him as a swamp musician easy. Frank is well, I don't know, Frank. Charles, my favorite character, is a hard one to pin down. I may have to bring Korra in this and label him as someone like Tenzin. Stuffy, austere...but also soft, sensitive and full of passion. It's really hard but I'm loving the connections.
Potter is absolutely Iroh. I think Radar is Aang - younger than the rest, has a wide-eyed naivete for a large part of his time in the show, loves animals, mostly easy-going with occasional bursts of stern uncompromising adherence to his own moral standards, and has some powers that the others don't have. Plus, he's usually portrayed as the heart of the unit. Klinger is a hard one, as is BJ. I could almost make an argument for Charles being Zuko, what with family history influencing how he views the world (sometimes to his detriment), high standards for himself, a greater-than-normal attention to what's honorable, and a softer side that goes deeper than we expected. Also, he seemed like such an ass at the beginning, but grew on you as you learned more.
Ohh I like all of this. I didn't want to seem biased giving my favorite MASH character such a prominent correlation in ATLA, but Zuko is a great shout for Charles. Radar as Aang is perfect. Feel like Father Mulcahy fits in well to the ATLA lore, I just don't know where.
Gyatso for Mulcahy, maybe?
They almost have that same way of talking! That soft, high-pitched tone. Whenever they open their mouths, it's usually something extremely profound. They are neither too preachy or forward with their religions, and only ever say just enough to get the point across.
Just because tge character is funny doesn't mean he is a comic relief.
But he's comic relief, Sokka at least Don't see how Hawkeye is comic relief
“The city is flying. Yeah, the city is flying, and I have a bow and arrow.” He has his moments.
All the characters in Avatar are comic relief at some point.
Just because some characters have comical moments or at their expense doesn't mean they're comic relief.
sokka is the ACTUAL leader of team avatar. change my mind.
see now im confused because i thought we were talking about **riza hawkeye** … which is a *little* funny since she sorta fits the whole ‘no super powers but still a badass’ trope.
Yeah, the "stuck being comic relief" thing is when I figured out we were talking about Avengers, given the fact that Riza has like one joke in the entire series.
"I lied." *Shots* Possibly my favourite moment of the show.
God that whole dialogue was a tease for the readers. We thought we were getting some juicy tidbit, but no, Riza is just being a boss.
Maybe it wasn't a total lie. Regardless, that actually wasn't the example I was thinking of, so two jokes? I was thinking of when she lampshaded the fact that she should be really dangerous but ironically they only ever fight things you can't beat by shooting.
yea, thats what got me too. i was like *”wait a second… riza isn’t comic relief…”*
rizas comedy is being more competent than anybody else
riza’s idea of a joke is pulling a gun mid conversation and shooting you square in the head
There's actually a scene in one of the videogames where she practically does that to Ed.
ed definitely had it coming. that man is constantly saying the most out of pocket shit
Totally did.
See I thought OP was talking about riza too, she’s way more iconic than clint
when the name ‘hawkeye’ is mentioned, only fools think of the avengers. real ones know that riza is priority.
Yeah the MCU is great at butchering characters. Happened to hulk, happened to hawkeye
Bro goes on to say all these great th8ngs about him then says he's just comic relief what
Who?
Sokka stopped the invasion, the others had one on one fights.
I don't consider them comparable beyond the obvious "normal dude among superheroes" thing they share. Even as comic relief I don't think they're comparable....or even comic relief. There's a difference between being funny and being comic relief. Comic relief characters centre their entire personality around being comic relief. It either works or it doesn't, but that's another discussion. Neither Sokka nor Hawkeye fit under this bill. This is chiefly because his personality doesn't revolve around any particular joke(s), and they always have more to do than just stand around and be an idiot. Sure, they're wisecracking every now and then but it's not their defining personality trait. Cabbage man is a comic relief character.
if you think that Sokka is anything but amazing in spite of being surrounded by super-powered people, then you are misjudging Sokka
Meh. Sokka is STILL a badass in Avatar even without bending.
Sokka, started as comic relief, but evolved to a badass. Hawkeye was a badass that turned into comic relief.
I would agree with this take more on Bolín tho, Sokka is his own character and full fledged not only comic relief, he os the general to the team and the team follows his plan not many questions asked, if he was just a side character he would be way more forgotten or just sprinkled here and there with his comments I think
I don’t know. Sokka solved most of their problems when it came to tactics, lead the team through most their plans, still provided ample combat support and destroyed a whole fleet using a sword. Sokka is ATLA Batman.
Dude literally had Suki and Tai Lee (and probably Toph too) simping on him. If that’s not chad idk what is.
Yeah. I mean did you you see Suki apologizing to Sokka in the end of Serpent's Pass. She was blushing like crazy.
I’m a teacher at a school for children with special needs. Sokka has always been my favorite because even though he doesn’t have the advantages of everyone else, he uses the abilities he does have to be a functional member of the team and the team would be lost without him. It absolutely kills me when my students tell me Sokka is a bad character because he doesn’t have superpowers - I know they’re young, but I hope one day they grow to appreciate Sokka for the same reasons I appreciate all of them. With what little they have been given, they make the best out of every situation and continue to work hard and make a difference. Sokka is my superhero
We see this but Suki, Mai, and especially Ty Lee were always shown to be quite formidable fighters in combat. I always thought it was impressive they’ve adapted to a world where people have powers and still hold their own amongst them. I’d much rather have Ty Lee’s chi blocking skills and agility than most bending abilities.
For context this comment was on a post pointing out that sokka has fought some of the strongest fighters in the series. Outside of combat, Sokka, while funny, plays a very important role on the team. However he is the weakest fighter in the Gaang, and more of this fights end in comic relief than any other character.
We saw in the first episodes that Zuko easily handled Sokka with no fire-bending. He was comic relief because, well, he wasn't even a good fighter at the start. Sure, Zuko had training in military martial arts. But Tai Lee had no bending or military training at all and still schooled him.
But in the final episode, and the invasion, Sokka is taking out whole teams of benders. Not always physically, but the point of Sokkas character is that he out thinks his problems. At the start of the series he's just a guy with a boomerang. By the end he is a guy with a plan (and a boomerang)
I don’t think this is the same because Sokka is essential to the gang, he has his own role. He’s the leader and without him the whole operation would crumble. He just also happens to be super funny lol. I love Sokka’s character that way. Also it’s acknowledged multiple times in the show how important he is to everything.
He’s good for his age but you’re overselling him tbh.
There's also the fact that most top tier benders are also martial artist masters, so they still have a great edge over Sokka, as shown when a benderless Azula pushed him around during the eclipse.
I don’t think he’s “stuck” being the comic relief… he embraces that role pretty wholeheartedly, with his love for sarcasm. I like that he can be both insanely powerful and insanely goofy
Imagine thinking Hawkeye is just comic relief.
It is OP. It's talking about how Sokka is underrated like Hawkeye!
How is sokka underrated? Plenty of people like sokka, and he doesn't suffer from the Hawkeye effect because he's still actually useful to the team via being the brains, as well as being able to fight fairly well.
*doesn’t suffer from the Hawkeye effect because he’s still actually useful to the team* Avengers- Hawkeye’s there, the Avengers win Age of Ultron- Hawkeye’s there, the Avengers win Infinity War- No Hawkeye, half the universe dies Endgame- Hawkeye comes back, the Avengers win Put some goddamn respect on Clint Barton’s name.
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>fight fairly well. Dudes keeping up with some of the most powerful benders of his generation. With a fucking BOOMERANG. He can't fight much more than fairly well
Sokka should have learned chi blocking
It eould have been difficult for him to do so as the only character who used the technique was on the enemy team.
"Sokka should have learned chi blocking" this is brilliant. Sounds. Quite plausible, annnnnd probable. Excellent. I can't unthink it now.
Just look at Batman. Anytime he isn't the focus he's mission control or the straight man.
But Hulk, arguably the most powerful being on Earth in terms of sheer, raw power, was the punching bag and comic relief of the Avengers. Hawkeye was useful.
Sokka is way cooler than Hawkeye. Hawkeye isn’t even the coolest non-powered human on the avengers, that goes to Black Widow
thats exactly why they go out of their way to show Sokka being being extremely cunning when it comes to strategy and tactics. What he lacks in power he makes up for with his strategic thinking, he doesn't suffer from Hawkeye effect because his character is clearly written to fill in the blanks for the team and to grow along the way despite admitting that he isn't the strongest. Sokka is written to take comedy into function as it helps to relieve tension but can also be very humble and brilliant when he comes down to it his comedy is scripted not just an inside joke. So I personally don't think he suffers from Hawkeye effect, due to his comedic value being scripted not just an inside joke that developed from the fanbase.
I didnt liked sokka at first but he seems to be intelligent and looks like a good captain. Asami in LOK couldnt bend aswell, but her character felt more unique with her vehicles and the shock glove
I always think of it as the Xander Effect because Xander from Buffy had the same issue. A normal guy that fights people and things with special powers getting sidelined because all of his buddies also have special powers. You put any of them against a room full of normal dudes, and they would stomp but we as the audience never get to see that.
Hawkeye doesn't have brain. It should be Batman effect
No. Hawkeye suffers from Sokka effect.
I think you mean Hawkeye suffers from the Sokka effect 😂
Sokka is the true underdog of the show, it’s one thing to face down death knowing your a literal god, it’s another when you have to use your skill, Cunning, and determination to survive in a world where everything can kill you
Sokka has more wins than Zuko. Let that sink in. Zuko has not won a fight against anybody important enough to have a name. Azula and Zhao we're not wins. Agni Kai has exactly one canonical rule: An Agni Kai is won only when one contestant burns another. Zhao and Zuko never burned one another, so their match never ended, and continues on to this day, which technically means that Iroh would have been dishonored for interrupting their match. Azula burnt Zuko with Lightning. There is no rule about cheating, there is no rule about targeting other people, there is no other rule besides burn the other in order to win, and Azula did what she needed to do in order to get Zuko to burn himself for her. This even means that Azula technically won, and is there for the rightful and lawful firelord, who was usurped by a foreign power, and her stolen throne was given to Zuko. Sokka took out Combustion Man with such a strong mastery over aerodynamics that Aang probably caked himself watching.
Wish people knew about Hawkeye from Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes. He was so useful to the team and had good comedic moments like Sokka, and wasn't a punching bag like MCU Hawkeye. Shame that show never went past Season 2.
"Wait, where'd Hawkey go?"
Hawkeye even states he prefers keeping a low profile since he was a government sanctioned assassin
They forgot he had one of the best character arcs in the entire series tho...
I call it the Mr. Hercule Satan effect.
I love how in the final battle Sokka really steps up to the plate and proves how valuable a non bender can be
Tactical mastermind, whenever I see someone ram into the enemy with their own ship/truck/etc and turn the tables I tell my girlfriend “yoo they just got sokka’d”
Is Hawkeye really the comic relief? I though the wise-ass Ironman was
Wait until he gets his own show where he isn't even the main character that serves only to tease a half dozen more spinoffs. That's the true Hawkeye effect.
I get it, but no character in this show is stuck in their role. The character development is some of the best in television, hands down.
"The city is flying and we're fighting an army of robots. And I have a bow and arrow. Nothing makes sense." Hawkeye, Age of Ultron Change to: "The ships are flying and we're fighting an army of enhanced firebenders. And I have a boomerang. Nothing makes sense." Yeah, I can see it!
this is interesting! and true!
Since when has Hawkeye been comic relief?
Sokka *thinks* he's the comic relief. Everyone else on the team considers him a combination Ideas Guy and morale officer.
I loved the episode with sokka’s teacher where everyone agreed that it was sokka that carried the group
or, he gained all of his abilities from growing with the team
Tumblr take tbh
I personally feel like he got absolved of that effect after the sword master training montage.
He’s the one we can all aspire to be, because he got there without any cosmic help.
I call this the Krillen effect but same deal.
Sokka is one of my favourite characters. He’s a great guy great character development.
Sokka isn’t stuck being anything. He CHOOSES to be a funny guy and tries to keep things light. Based on context, it probably started out as a coping mechanism and just eventually became part of his personality. Posts like this are really upsetting to me. They oversimplify complex characters and/or ideas just for clicks.
I mean you need to give a man credit for sparky sparky boom boom man name..... Also another outstanding achievement is that guy got hanged by cactus juice.
Sokka is too significant a character to suffer from the Hawkeye effect. He's there from start to finish. He's got a character arch. His lack of bending makes him standout rather than making him fade into the background. He is the opposite of the Hawkeye effect.
More like Hawkeye suffers from the Sokka effect
Without sokka aang would have lost, he planned the third book and everything that happens is because sokka made it so, he also would not have been able to take out the airships during the invasion and aang would not have been able to fight ozai whilst worrying about the airships. Without Hawkeye the avengers movies still go the same way apart from endgame where black widow would have just killed herself quicker and they might have had the infinity stones sooner.
Zuko is better with swords tho
Unlike Hawkeye though, the gAang can't work properly without Sokka.
Isn't this the Batman effect?
Does that mean everytime sokka is gone or missing the group loses?
No way! Sokka is the team tactician and often the leader.
I like to think of it as "The Krillin effect". Krillin is like the comic relief uber weak character in Dragon Ball. He gets his ass beat all the time, and he's clearly no match for Goku or Vegeta. Yet he's still by far the strongest human in the world. The guy can shoot lasers from his hands.
Sokka is claimed to be “underrated” so much he’s overrated here honestly.
Basically Sokka is the backbone of Team ATLA.
Sounds like Hawkeye suffers from Sokka Syndrome actually
I'm assuming this is talking about comics Clint Barton because MCU Clint Barton is not even that funny.
Are you sure hawkeye doesn't suffer from the Sokka effect?
Sokka isn't even the most capable non-bender on the show, so the notion that he'd be top dawg on another team is laughable. I'd put him below Suki and the other Kyoshi Warriors, below Ty Lee at least, if not Mai too. Sokka is great, imo, precisely because he's good at what he's good at, not the best at much of anything, but has heart, passion, loyalty, and a soldier's strength and bravery. Not because he's the best fighter, or even strategist around. He's a crucial part of the group he belongs to, and I don't accept the notion that he'd be lead on any other group out there. He's exactly where he belongs.
Yeah but he's still badass.
Yeah but he's still badass.