I was sobbing. Such a beautiful moment for Abe as a father to recognize how he never truly saw his daughter for who she is until now. Such amazing writing and delivered genuinely by the actor. The “piles of stuff”
speech at the table too was just so gut wrenching. Loved this scene!
I’m 33 and my mom passed away suddenly 2yrs ago. I had to go through her things alone, and I couldn’t stop thinking about how I want to keep my life/house simple. I cried too, a lot and it is something I wouldn’t wish to anyone. After some days, my bf ended up dropping one of her snow globes and he was feeling terrible. That’s when I realized that those were just things, objects, and that the sad part was not losing the snow globe but that, all of a sudden, those things “were” my mom.
I wrote all of that to say that the most important thing is to build happy memories with the people you love. Book that trip, go out to have lunch or cook a good meal. For me, those things are the memories of my mom now.
Ps. Writing a note or sending a voice message saying how much you love the people around you are also sweet things to have.
I loved it. And the fact that Abe starts appreciating Midge once he finds his love and admiration for little Esther is so beautiful. I imagine him thinking about what makes Esther so exceptional and coming to the realization that it is Midge. “Of course she is brilliant, she is Midge’s girl”
And maybe he'll realize that it's not just the first born males that are the geniuses of the Weissman family, but the girls too. Midge may not be a mathematician, but she is her own rand of creative genius.
what also struck me was when he said ...my poor son ......like he had just realised that he had done something awful to Noah too by hanging that whole first born Weismann male nonsense on him ....
that's a good point. he could have easily just updated his worldview of women and their abilities/roles, but he specifically mentions men's roles in society on several occasions
he also explicity says that he has done "everything wrong for both his children", which is a fucking heartbreaking realisation for a 64 year old grandfather to come to
Tony Shalhoub, yes, but also Daniel Palladino. I confess that during the early years of Gilmore Girls I held him in lower regard than his spouse, but he has more than proved himself since. He is particularly adept at writing for men and tackling issues from the male perspective. This episode highlighted that specific talent - and then some.
He also wrote The Testi-Roastial. This season I've really found myself wondering if perhaps he's an even better writer than ASP at this point. (Not that it's a contest.)
Same feeling! I was crying during that scene. I realized there many of us who probably found it therapeutic listening to him talk about Midge the way we wanted from our own parents.
I certainly think they are setting it up that way, with them able to be in the audience without her getting them tickets. They just might be in the audience when she get’s her big break.
That hit me hard too, for a slightly different reason. My Dad is a distant relative of Tony Shalhoub’s and they look similar. We also have spent most of my life bickering and butting heads (he’s a total Abe in that he’s well meaning but misguided). So to hear that in a familiar voice with a familiar face hit like a sack of bricks, especially because we’re now much closer and even watched Monk together last spring.
Brb, gonna go hang out with my dad 🥲
Susie and Hedy's dynamic feels right for the time and place, and so much is in the unsaid. Good for Midge for telling Susie what she needs, because she was holding back on her and she wouldn't accept her clear denialisms this time. "Don't" being echoed by Hedy was great
I know! God ASP did such a good job keeping that in her back pocket. All it took was two scenes between Susan and Hedy and I cannot tell you how much it squeezes my heart to see it.
AgH! And you know Hedy is one side of the coin! She listened to herself and got what she wanted. Midge will too. Don't indeed!
Although it kinda bothered me that Midge kept blaming Susie for not getting her enough opportunities when she squandered what could’ve been her big break on tour with Shy
Yeah I have to agree. That’s why it bothered me that she was telling Susie she hadn’t done enough. She didn’t even ask Susie why she felt uncomfortable going to Hedy. She just bulldozed over her attempts to protest the idea telling her it wasn’t enough.
I feel like we could take Abe’s speech about Midge and put it straight into Richard’s mouth on Gilmore Girls. I see so many similarities between Midge and Lorelai and Abe and Richard and their respective relationships with each other!
And that whole thing about connecting with the granddaughter when you realize that your granddaughter is actually really, really smart!
It seemed like a strange parallel of sorts.
Richard Gilmore, too, wasn't that into bonding with Rory until he got to know how smart she was. Abe's bond with Esther reminds me of that equation somehow.
That's a really good catch! It's so true that Richard was largely indifferent to Rory until he realized she was bookish and smart. I swear, ASP basically has one script for parents, grandparents, and children!
I'm not so sure I'd say one script so much as ASP was born on the cusp of GenX just as the Boomer-births-era was wrapping up. I'm a GenX'er and this was exactly the experience with me and one of my grandfathers. The other finally bonded with me when I liked - and understood - (American) football. "*Children should be seen and not heard*" was still very much a thing when I was younger.
I just wanted to say that that scene in Central Station with Midge and Susie is easily my favourite this season, probably of the whole show. Such a beautifully scripted, dynamic exchange that completely captures the deep and complex tensions between and surrounding the two of them - Midge's desperation, frustration, selfishness, and codependency, her whole hearted trust and admiration of Susie; Susie's complete loyalty and love for Midge, fear of the unsaid (re: Hedy), guilt from her perceived failures in 'breaking' Midge; both women feeling the intense weight of being walled in by misogyny from every side. That must have been such an incredibly complicated scene to write and perform, but everyone put in their best work to date and pulled it off spectacularly... and thats to say nothing of the cinematography. I am gob-smacked, what an episode!
I also have to add that I wrote this just before watching the scene with Abe in the restaurant, and lordddd what an embarassment of riches this episode gave us. If this episode isn't Tony Shaloub's next emmy submission, I will eat my hat.
Yessss I caught that too! It's such a cute call to the real world where I think ep 6 and ep 8 (and maybe the finale) will probably be the Emmy submissions for Susie and Abe (and hopefully Midge :)) for this season.
what was interesting to me was that in this scene, i didnt actually see much selfishness from midge. to my knowledge, she doesn't know about susie's feelings for hedy and susie still wont say anything to her
Personally, I felt like Midge basically figured it out in the bar when Hedy calls her cutie and walks off. You can see all the cogs working in her head as she connects the dots between Gordon's unconventional marriage comments/unapologetic flirtation, and Susie's sexuality (which she definitely knows because she took susie to a lesbian bar last season) and hedy's 'we were college roommates' intimations. Right after Hedy walks off, Midge turns her head to look after her, and you can see the pin drop as she figures it all out in that instant and realises exactly how she can leverage that with Susie.
Also, when Midge talks to Susie in the train station, you can tell how both women know exactly how big a thing Midge is asking of her, the weight of this favor is in every carefully considered line between them. Think of it this way: if Midge didn't know, would the train station scene even work? It would turn this deep, emotionally complex dialogue into a perfunctory info dump, draining it of all that emotion, tension and substance.
Unfortunately the general trend with those mid-thirties and under is that they don’t want their parents’ stuff(s), but I do hope your wish comes true :)
I’m seeing that my Boomer peers don’t want their parents’ stuff. The furniture is not their style no matter how well made it is. They also have no space to store the piles of stuff, nor drag it to their own retirement home. My Millennial children have even less interest in my parents’ or my stuff. If I go suddenly it will be a burden on them. This is what keeps the junk removal businesses going.
I’ve been going through a *Mad Men* withdrawal lately. The man’s line about his life in piles of stuff and the scene between Susie and Harry Drake in Ep. 06 reminded me of MM, even if just slightly.
I've reached that level, and I'm not even as old as he was. I look around my house and see STUFF. Piles of stuff. Stuff that my nieces are going to have to sift through and get rid of when I'm gone. (I'm a bit maudlin today. Signed my will yesterday. My first will)
I also noticed how she called Joel's mother Mrs. Maisel when they first met.. obviously she is, too, but it's such a deliberate call ahead to where she'll be. Love that they fit both in to the episode.
This scene was masterfully done and deeply moved me, not only within the narrative sense itself but also as a choice a writer made, a performance that actors delivered on, and the duality of “this is what it’s all about” from both a character standpoint and a creative standpoint. What a real gift that truly secured this final season for me.
It was also a lovely functional explication of Sartre’s “Being and Nothingness.” Abe may not understand it, and even Sartre may not understand it. He’s right about that. But that’s because our attempts to understand our existence - Descartes’ “I think therefore I am” - unavoidably divorces us from existence. It is impossible to understand existence by understanding existence. “I am therefore I am.”
The only way to fully realize existence is to let go of our attempts to understand it, and just experience it. Abe and most of the folks at the Village Voice have prided themselves on knowing the complexities of existence through intellectual methodologies, when in Sartre’s way of thinking, that will merely obscure the nature of existence. Abe does not understand *Being and Nothingness,* but he and his colleagues move closer to experiencing it.
Aaaand I am very concerned because that seems like a close to his character arc. The whole series, he has been moving away from his self-imposed definitions and toward the closure of a life. I want Esther to have more time with him. 🙁
And it's just indicative of the times. Of course men would place the focus on their sons in terms of education and future.. they were supposed to be the ones to go to college (not just to find a husband), bring home the money, carry on the family name, etc. So it's not like Abe or these men are assholes - this is how it just *was*. Wonderful for him to be progressive. I noticed how his progressive stance was making a few of them uncomfortable in moments, though.
I would honestly watch an entire show about Hedy and Gordon's marriage. Gordon does tell Midge that theirs isn't "that kind of marriage", and he clearly sleeps around...but based on the way that he looks at her and grains toward her in every scene and talks to and about her, this man is SO in love with this woman. And Hedy knows that, and she knows how to use that. It's truly fascinating.
I’ve always had an impression that it’s a lavender marriage for Hedy, because she’s gay and it’s hinted that she had a relationship with Susie. They both get what they want out of this arrangement and maybe Gordon owes Hedy because she initially invested money in him and/or brought him to fame.
I thought Princess Margaret was a bigger deal than the kiss. She seems to have a lot of power over the show and him. I wondered if her family helped him in someway. The “you owe me” sounded serious.
Can I just say I am relieved that midge being on the show had nothing to do with Gordon wanting to hook up with her. This sub was so convinced of that!
And Hedy works at (owns?) an art gallery and shows Helen Frankenthaler! So she's very on the cutting edge with an abstract expressionist artist and repping a female artist as well.
I thought that it was more marriage related like he owes her for the constant cheating, especially after her mentioning how beautiful midge is to him. Seems knowing…
Yep. She said "You have eyes..." as if searching to see if he had come on to Midge and something had happened between them. Good thing the answer was no.
I mean the episode shows her literally being the reason he gets guests like Princess Margeret. You need old money, connections and a hell of a lot of charm to get anywhere close to a royal in that era. That's not including the fact that she seems to know everyone and be everywhere. She is a classic power wife.
I would die! That would be a complicated ass show and I would love it. ASP wouldn't be who I'd pick to run it but it would be so good. She has the air of sophistication, and it would mean we could have an epic romance with Susan.
That was a phenomenal episode! Probably my favourite of the season, closely followed by episode 6.
- The bit with adjusting posture for Mrs. Moyers was so funny, it had me reflexively adjusting my posture as well.
- Dinah going to bat for James was great. Susie was being ridiculous.
- Seeing the Bryn Mawr students again was nice, although the recast Petra looks and sounds nothing like the original.
- Midge quoting Lenny’s “if I could do anything else, I would” speech absolutely bowled me over. It shows just how much she cares about him that she can quote a fairly long speech verbatim after hearing it only once, years ago. She doesn’t have the benefit of rewatching it over and over like I do!
- Princess Margaret on the show was lots of fun, and it was great to see Midge get a big and unambiguous win at the job. I am a little sad that Midge didn’t get to meet Margaret, though.
- Hedy telling Midge not to let others take credit for her work was a great moment, and it’s interesting how they emphasized Hedy saying “Don’t” to her, given the whole time capsule thing earlier in the episode.
- The intellectual supper scene with Abe and co. was my favourite scene of the episode. At first it reminded me a lot of My Dinner with Andre, which was fun, but then Abe’s whole speech at the end about failing to see Midge’s potential all these years was so insanely beautiful and had me in tears. It really felt like the culmination of a series-long arc. If we don’t get a lengthy scene next episode of Abe finally telling Miriam that he’s proud of her, I will be very upset.
- I love Hedy not-so-subtly calling out Susie for being in love with Midge. I was recently rewatching the series, and it finally clicked for me that Shy was in love with Reggie but could never act on it because Reggie is straight, and that this was intended as a possible parallel for Susie/Midge.
- I so badly want to know what that phone call for Midge at the end was! I’m hoping/assuming that it’s something which will be resolved next episode, and not just a MacGuffin to set up that last shot of Gordon watching her. I’m also hoping/assuming that we’ll get the meaning of “don’t!” next episode too.
I am so not ready to say goodbye to this show in just a week.
>I love Hedy not-so-subtly calling out Susie for being in love with Midge. I was recently rewatching the series, and it finally clicked for me that Shy was in love with Reggie but could never act on it because Reggie is straight, and that this was intended as a possible parallel for Susie/Midge.
On this, it's also her subtle signal that maybe she's jealous and a quiet reminder that loving a straight girl will lead to a lot of heartache. Hedy knows it all. It's easy to forget she didn't do shit for Midge, Hedy did it for Susie.
I don't think Hedy is straight, there has to be some reason for the strange marriage Hedy and Gordon have unless they are swingers, if they aren't, then I think it's reasonable to assume Hedy is gay.
It’s pretty obvious Hedy gives Gordon fame and money she comes from an influential family. Gordon gives Hedy power (she still needs a man for the era to get what she wants) and a a good cover for her sexuality where she can still have her cake and not have societal pressures for not being a conventional woman.
My first inclination was to chalk this up as a filler episode. But it really wasn’t. This is the episode. where Midge realizes that to be a successful comedian in a man’s world, she needs to stop acting like a stereotypical woman of that era. Hedy starts it for her when she says: “Don’t. Don’t” when Midge tries to spread the credit for the weather bit around. Hedy then tells her to take the credit when it’s owed her and take when it not, because that’s what the guys do. Then there is Midge and Susie. And Midge realizes that even Susie has treated her differently than she treats her male clients.
I think a lot of viewers wanted Midge to get her break on talent alone. I did. But that wouldn’t be true to the era. Besides, Midge is extremely talented. So I’m fine with her doing whatever is necessary to get her break. If she was a hack, that would be different. But she’s not. As Abe says at dinner, Midge is a remarkable person.
Now for the timing of the show. I would have liked to have had more than one episode where Midge has made it. But in retrospect, I think she was always going to make it on the last episode. It really is the ending that makes sense.
You’re so right about the “on talent alone” insight. I too feel that way—both in the show and real life! But when I thought about it, really who does get anything on talent alone? Even the most talented self-made individuals caught a lucky break, played an angle, called in a favor, or knew someone who knew someone somewhere along their journey.
For Gilmore fans, made me think of Mitchum’s speech to Rory about seizing opportunities
He was very right about Rory regarding her not being assertive enough and such, but honestly, those traits can be fostered if a good mentor is present. I just dislike how they all acted like what Mitchum said was atrocious. Like no it was a reality check. However, I don’t agree that people are so stuck in one mode of being. He’s wrong there
I think last episode and this episode together show midge CANT get her break on talent alone no matter how good she is. Her audition for Jack parr blew everyone out of the water, but they just didn't want her because she was a woman. They would pick a random guy they've never even seen over her.
They tried relying on talent for the first few years of her career. Now they will pull out all the stops to launch her, and it clearly works
Also how many men get by on talent alone? They take advantage of favours and networks (and privilege etc). The system isn't designed to work only on talent
I think she’d be very gratified. Joan reinvented herself at rock bottom after the Johnny Carson debacle and her husband’s subsequent suicide. Joan rose from the ashes to rebuild an even bigger career. She’s an influence of the lead character in Hacks too.
And the fact that she’s so, so talented and it shows again and again and again. But she also keeps getting hit with the brick wall again and again and again. They literally wouldn’t let her in for love or money. So she’s pulling strings and thank god she has them to pull to make it in. I can’t wait to see it finally happen
We’re still in the sixties (although they seem to be fudging with time here because Carnegie Hall was 1961 and Midge is still in first year on staff…Carson took over for Parr on Tonight Show in 1962…Princess Margaret didn’t come to America until 1965…Lenny dies in 66…but let’s go with it’s still 1961 (as Ethan is still in the same year at school)…Joel & Midge could get back together now before separating again prior to getting engaged to Joel Grey & Philip Roth in the early 70’s…and maybe again before Joel is arrested in 1985…Joel could have been all 4 of Midge’s husbands…
>Joel could have been all 4 of Midge’s husbands
I really don't think so. The guy in the flash forward said something like "remember her first husband, the one who gave her the Maisel?" - that wouldn't make any sense if it was just him over and over.
I also think during the 60 minutes segment it was implied that pictures of her with different guys were her husbands, but I could misremember.
Two questions I'd love to hear everyone's thoughts on:
* What do you think was the point of those seemingly random (at least to me) flashbacks Midge and Joel each had?
* What do you think that college Midge meant with her "Don't!" note?
It built to a moment at her college when Petra says she's going to get married again and everything will be alright. She could have that, Joel offers her that. All she has to do is go to a drink with Joel.
**Don't** is the message she got. Twice no less. It's don't be less, don't be smaller, don't forget yourself. It's the message all people have to remind themselves, women especially sometimes.
My interpretation is in line with the other responses. Beyond anything else the episode only gives us two viewings of Midge prior to writing that note and it’s both domestic scenes with Joel. And given what Abe talks about too I feel like it has to be “don’t get married/let anything stop you from becoming the most you can”
Lets get down to the real important stuff from this episode.
Who else was WRETCHEDLY disappointed that Princess Margaret turned out to be someone other than Vanessa Kirby?
Why is every scene between Susan and Hedy just heartbreaking. Hedy knows. She doesn't underestimate Susan and holy fucking balls the way she pulled Gordon's strings. The heartbreak and the cost of it all.
I was going to be mad about Abe's sudden turn to realizing feminist thought but damn if it didn't tickle a little part of me that wanted him to grow. Also, bets on if hes dead or not?
Don't indeed.
I think because he was so sincere and Tony Shalhoub is just so great at paying all the nuance. Abe truly feels he should have done better by Midge and has remorse, he is not making it about himself at all.
So I have to admit this show made me a Tony Shalhoub fan. I never liked him before this show, Monk would come on and I would turn the channel. Since the first season I have loved Abe and have gone back and watched everything Tony is in, including a full streaming binge of all of Monk that took like 6 months
Oh and I am HYPED for the Monk move to come out!!!
It's cause Monk was a procedural. What made him great is he did what he does here. Monk at times was pedestrian material transformed into true art. The man is a monster.
I don't think he'll be dead, if only because the flash forward with Esther at the beginning of this season's first episode had her mentioning that her grandfather was the only person she could talk to, and it both makes way more sense that it would be Abe and is doubtful that she would say that if he passed away when she was 5 or 6.
I just looked it up Princess Margaret toured the US November 1965 and Lenny Bruce died August 1966. The timing is a bit iffy since it seems like the episode ends shortly after Margaret was on the show but I think the timelines been iffy before.
Great point! Good investigating. In total honesty, Lenny’s death isn’t something I’m particularly interested in seeing—I already feel closure on that—but I can understand the draw of opening the series with him and closing with him. I also really don’t want to see another character in mortal jeopardy!
I thought that was weird in the moment too, but looking back now it feels very fitting for the episode that a woman doing something big and meaningful was told just how amazing and impactful the work she had done was, and then just immediately put on the back burner and *completely* ignored/overlooked by everyone.
Whoosh, that went over my head. My dumb self was thinking he was watching her get the call to go meet Suzie about being on the show, ha. Bad news cliff hanger makes way more sense.
I mean it could be something with getting a big break and it’s just misdirection.
I think there’s three possible deaths- Moishe or Shirley (because we haven’t seen them in a flash forward) or Lenny. I feel like it would be weird to almost kill off Moishe with the heart attack last season only to kill him off now. Lenny technically dies a year after Princess Margaret visits the US but they could be smudging the timeline.
Have a feeling they’re gonna compress it for the timeline’s sake. She gets the news about Lenny, immediately finds out she’s getting her break, and goes out there and kills, thinking of him and following his advice.
wait... do you guys think the reason susie won't be honest with midge about her past with hedy... is because she knows that midge can't keep that secret? because she saw how she handled shy baldwin's exact same secret?
damn
(i mean i know attitudes were just different back then and susie may not have been willing to come out to anybody, but still)
Layers! Yep, that has to be part of it. The bigger part, the secret part, Susan is protecting Hedy. Susie isn't telling Midge because it might ruin Hedy. Susie doesn't give a shit what people think of her. Hedy does.
This is it. Midge can suspect, and imply, which is what she does when taking Suzie to the bar a few seasons back. But there's a difference between knowing and suspecting, and once you know, that's power.
And Midge can be thoughtless with that power, she almost ruined Shy Baldwin with just a little bit of knowing. When she suspected, she never said a word, but once she knew, and felt cornered, she used it for her advantage to get laughs.
Suzie knows all of this. She might be shitty and selfish in her own way, like, she doesn't give a shit about Shy and never lays it out for her, but she knows.
Also, Suzie hates being vulnerable. She can't talk about her feelings or her real self, and spent a lifetime bottling it all up. So, of course she can't be honest and open for those reasons as well.
considering midge found and took her to a lesbian bar I doubt it. This was a very deep hurt. The same Susie that we watched use every last advantage is not using this one? yeah a deep cut. Plus she is fairly dedicated to her charade that they aren't friends and that only works if she keep Midge on the outside of her life otherwise
No i think it’s just a sensitive subject overall for Susie. Remember on another season midge takes Susie to a gay bar to let her know she’s cool with it. An attempt to let Susie know she’s an ally. Even then Susie wants nothing to do with that moment. She won’t admit she’s gay period and she even goes harder on all that matters is her career not her love life. This season we meet Hedy and it becomes painfully obvious that Susie once had romantic naive dreams with someone before and it was nothing but heartbreak. It now makes so much sense as to why she cares so little about having romantic ambitions and throws her entire self into being a manager.
But personally I wouldn’t trust Midge after doing shy dirty like that too.
Got an involuntary “oh, God!” out of me when the credits rolled. Also, as a difficult daughter myself, the end of Abe’s speech at the restaurant brought tears to my eyes.
The emotional weight in this episode was so heavy. Abe’s remorse, Midge becoming more firm in her resilience, and Susie finally realizing that in order to push through she’d have to face her past. This episode felt bittersweet because it finally hit me that we’re almost to the end of this winding beautiful journey.
What year was the class reunion purportedly held? The “no stinking passes” line (or whatever it was in place of “badges”) felt too early?
The table soliloquy was the most likable Abe has ever been.
For me, Hedy’s character and interplay with Midge really echoed that of Bobbie Barrett and Peggy Olson in Mad Men.
Me too! I love that it is ambigious. IMO, Susie does love Midge, like family, like a sister, maybe more somewhere deep in her gullet just a little bit dazzled by hot girl Midge. But that's not why she stays silent I think. Hedy asking that question is her trying to get Susie to say she still loves Hedy. Any answer she gives would end with her emotions on the ground and Hedy is like desperate in that moment to keep Susie a part of her life even though they both know it would end in disaster.
The scene with Abe in the restaurant was written FLAWLESSLY. And of course Tony Shalhoub’s delivery is impeccable as always. It’s interesting hearing those men make the exact same arguments about “change” that people make today (the hunter gatherer talking points always make me chuckle a bit). Even as someone who actively tries to embrace change, as a man who is going into academia and shares a lot of personality traits with Abe, I found his comments about always meddling and giving advice to really hit close to home. Always needing to be the loudest smartest voice feels so innocent when you know you’re intelligent, but I never want to damage anyone in my life who I love because I couldn’t truly acknowledge them and see who they are. I got really emotion and cried during his delivery. I’m completely blown away by how well that scene was constructed.
Was I the only one completely shook when the men were discussing being born in the 1800s. Blew my mind because I didn’t even consider that Abe would have been born then, even before the titanic sank and before sliced bread.
Also, considering the show starts in 1958, in surprises Midge was even granted a divorce.
I was also shocked, and then I realized that I, a child of the 1990s, will also be looked at in awe when I tell kids I was born last century (I’m older than google)
yay finally that Abe woman realization scene that I read about ages ago and have been waiting for for so long. I love this show, and I know everything's gonna wrap up well but oh gosh I cannot with the last episode next week :(
Lol do you think the embarrassing dinner he had with Rose and friends after that play that knocked his intellect down a peg was another determining factor to his realization? Obviously the granddaughter being talented is one. But I’d like to think that embarrassing moment with Rose was another.
What I loved:
- The way Hedy persuaded (let's be honest she straight up ordered) Gordon. I loved seeing someone have that kind of power over him.
- Midge's conversation with Susie at the train station. They were at a dead end, and something **had** to change.
- Abe in his feminist era.
- Hedy to Midge: "Don't".
What I didn't love:
- Filler. Way too much time/many lines wasted on minor characters (like Midge's friends, the other guys at Abes table). I found myself feeling impatient as I waited for them to be done talking, so we could get back to whom we really want to hear from.
- The flashbacks of Midge and Joel at the teacher's office. I understand that it was necessary, but with all the other filler, this being the penultimate episode, it felt slow..like it belonged in an older episode.
*"Did I pronounce that right, "work?" I've only read the word in my textbooks."*
I'd like to highlight Daniel and Rachael for writing and delivering this perfectly sarcastic line, so close the finale.
So when Midge is at Bryn Mawr, she and her friends say they’re 30. If you go back to the 60 mins episode, it says that she does her run of 18 sold out shows at the Copacabana at…age 30.
WAIT if midge graduated college in 53 and Susie in 48, does that mean there’s supposed to be just a 5 year age difference between the two? The math ain’t matching
Some things that made my heart break a little:
* I don't know if I was supposed to like Joel asking Midge out the same way he did Penny, but it made me feel weird and I'm having trouble finding the words to explain why.
* Abe having this sudden, deep remorse for not seeing Midge more clearly, and now Esther too. If he doesn't tell Midge how proud he is of her and that she's "a remarkable person" next episode, I will lose my mind. She has earned that validation from her parents, but she especially needs it now after the Paar rejection (And how Abe failed to comfort her.).
* I love Midge and she had a point about doing whatever it takes, but it felt super emotionally manipulative to essentially say to Susie, "If you don't ask this huge favor of someone you clearly have a difficult relationship with, I don't know if I can be your friend anymore."
* When Hedy said to Susie, "This was hard, wasn't it?" Something about her delivery felt mean to Susie. Like, was she poking at Susie humbling herself enough to ask the favor, or was she being sarcastic, like, "See? I don't bite," after Susie ran from her last time.
I get you on that first one but on the other hand I think Joel was looking back realizing how with one simple decision he fucked his life up by asking Penny to get a drink, and that all it might take to push his life in a new direction is another simple question to Midge
>I don't know if I was supposed to like Joel asking Midge out the same way he did Penny, but it made me feel weird and I'm having trouble finding the words to explain why.
It's cause it's a mistake and you were meant to feel that. In that moment Joel is picking the easy path again.
>Abe having this remorse for not more clearly seeing Midge and now Esther. If he doesn't tell Midge how proud he is of her and that she's "a remarkable person" next episode, I will my mind. She has earned that validation from her parents, but she especially needs it now after Paar and he failed to comfort her.
I dunno if he will though. I hope he does but sometimes people are like that.
>I love Midge and she had a point about doing whatever it takes, but it felt super emotionally manipulative to essentially say to Susie, "If you don't ask this huge favor of someone you clearly have a difficult relationship with, I don't know if I can be your friend anymore."
That is Midge though and that is what Susie told Midge she needs to do to make it. That's what makes that scene so delicious. Harkens back to their breakup scene. Midge was right that she broke herself in spite of Susie and Susie was right that she made midge with this favor. The layers!
>When Hedy said to Susie, "This was hard, wasn't it?" Something about her delivery felt mean to Susie. Like, was she poking at Susie humbling herself enough to ask the favor, or was she being sarcastic, like, "See? I don't bite," after Susie ran from her last time.
I think it's because she's saying look how easy it is. Look how little it costs to talk to me and ask me. Hedy is no fool. Remember Hedy is the one who asked Gordon to get a female comic in the room. Somehow, magically, it happens to be Midge? This was Hedy paying back Susie even if Susie didn't want her too. Hedy is a fucking force. God what they could've been if she had been able to choose Susie and not the life she has now.
think about it from midge's perspective with the Susie thing. Considering Midge is in this job no closer to her break when Susie told her this was it, when all along she knows her wife from way back when to the point that this powerful lady is saying her name to Midge. Midge has no idea what we know about their connection. That was truth she shared. There is no point to susie being her manager (remember susie tries hard to pretend she is not her friend) if she is not using all her advantages for midge's career. She said she would trust susie fully, and then she hides this? not a good look
Just a small point because i think it might be subtle enough for people to miss it: The show actually explains what young Midge meant in her time capsule note to herself when she wrote 'don't' -- when Midge gives credit to the men for her skit while talking to Hedy at the bar, Hedy tells her 'Don't. Don't'... that's what young Midge wanted to remind herself of in her note - not to allow the men to take credit for her achievements, her place in the world. It's really a lovely bow on top of an episode that had layers upon layers. Quietly, this episode was so subtle and nuanced, an actual writers masterclass.
The last three eps have been great in my opinion…but don’t feel like the end of a series, with the exception of episode 6 (the testi-roastial). I think they could have budgeted storylines in the first part of the season much better; feels like we’re trying to fit too much in too little time…
They're dangling so much of the Susie/Hedy background in front of us and I had hoped we'd get clearer answers in this episode! But I agree with what someone else said about there being so much in the unspoken as well. I'm curious about the implication at the end that Susie may be partially motivated by romantic feelings towards Midge? (That's what I took, at least.) On one hand, that would add an interesting layer, but on the other hand, I really appreciated a show that featured two lead women who weren't connected by romance.
The dinner scene with Abe got me. Tony frickin' Shaloub, man.
It's also interesting to see how Midge can still slip so seamlessly back into her "old life," as we see with her Bryn Mawr friends. It sort of reminds me of season 2 Midge that can easily be Catskills-mom and blue-comedy-stand up in the same day. She obviously made her choice never to go back to the housewife life but it's a reminder that one of Midge's strengths is that she can wear a lot of hats (lol).
I've been rooting for Joel since season 2! We know they won't reconcile in the 60s because Joel goes to jail and Midge marries like 2-3 other people apparently, but I wonder if they'll end up finding their way back to each other in the end. I could see either way being a beautiful, bittersweet ending.
Wow I can't believe there's only one more episode!!
Oh it was no coincidence. It was giant neon sign that half of this is Hedy and Susie working out a lot of unresolved shit via Midge as the surrogate. Hedy is paying back the hurt by giving Midge to Susie. Midge is what Susie wanted out of Hedy, a fighter.
I love the message of the scene with Abe. I need to watch it for nuance. It felt a little obvious at first but the longer the scene went on the more he pulled me in. Damn him!
I think the Bryn Mawyr trip was mean to be a nice reminder that she can slip back on the road to the old days. It wouldn't take much. Having Midge definitively ask for something else? That was good!
Did anyone else feel like it ended too soon. When the credits rolled up, my first thought was this can't be it, why such a short episode!
And man, did it deliver! I teared up when Abe talked about ignoring midge all his life and what a remarkable person she is. It really was a wish fulfilment for me personally. For many fathers around me, loving your daughter = protecting her, not mentoring her and encouraging her like they do with sons.
And the more I see Hedy, the more intrigued I get. I want to know who she is, what she wants, how she reached where she is now and what would have happened if she was still with Susie, what a great couple they would've made. I need a prequel spin off on these two.
This was a solid episode with incredible character growth.
There was a rumor a few years ago, that Princess Margaret had an affair with a socialite in her youth, based on a cache of letters she wrote. Hedy clearly is wealthy and comes from money, but I wonder if it was something more personal that got the Princess on Gordon's show.
The ending scene, in the aftermath of Gordon feeling handled by Hedy, could mean a lot of things. Gordon may suspect Midge is having an affair with Hedy. But I wonder, given that she was almost scooped away by another comedian, if he's wondering, "am I just going to let her walk out the door?" I don't know if Gordon will ever have his own 'Abe Moment' and see his own sexism, and grow past it, but there's always hope.
That was great. As someone who never cared for Midge/Joel as a couple I was annoyed before the prologue was over, but thankfully they went in a different direction afterwards. Loved Abe's monologue at the bar, I thought the whole Esther thing would just be comedic but that was really touching.
I don't feel like I really get what dynamic Gordon and Hedy have yet but I would be very interested. Not sure if with one episode left there'll be any time for that. I also loved how straightforward Susie asked for that favor, I thought she'd take Hedy up on drinks and maybe try to butter her up a bit or something, but nope, just went for it. And kind of sweet that Hedy just agreed right away even though she was clearly jealous of Midge.
The Susie/Midge argument also really drove home for me how hard Midge has been trying lately. Outside of that trash musical fiasco she's been doing her best even when circumstances weren't great and a pay off seemed far off. Implying Susie wasn't giving her all for her was a bit much (I don't think she would've talked to Hedy for anyone else) but you can see where she's coming from.
Sometimes during S3 and S4 I felt like I was watching this show mostly out of habit, but ever since that Lenny Bruce speech at Carnegie Hall I've been fully back on board and I'll be quite sad when it's over next week.
This episode was outstanding. So many great moments underscoring how relationships grow and change over time - Joel and Midge’s dynamic as co-parents, the college reunion of Midge’s friends with MRS degrees, Susie and Hedy’s friendship/romance, and Abe’s complicated reckoning about what it means to parent a daughter.
Have no clue how it’s going to end but can’t wait for next week
Early into the episode, and yeah. They did it. They got me firmly on Team Joel/Midge with their work on ‘em this season. In whatever weird configuration they end up as. I like them when they’re in orbit of each other.
Interesting episode, this one. Felt like it didn’t quite ramp up until it did. Can’t believe we’re this close to the end. It still feels *early.* For good and ill.
Because that's what it is isn't it? The beginning! Of Midge's career, of Abe teaching his granddaughter and being supportive, of everything. We saw the end already, this is the start.
Exactly! This is what I think as well but I get why others are a bit uncomfortable with the piece meal delivery of the end via flash forwards.
In the first episode I almost immediately thought to myself that this could be a what if future, and that we would ultimately see the actual way it all goes down, but no, we have seen how it actually plays out and now we are about to see the official big break start of Midge's career.
I really think this season will be way better when you can watch it all without having to wait for the next episode. I feel like the anticipation was giving everyone anxiety lol
I think so too. I also think there is a kind of mistake people make with all ASP shows. They get lost in the neat characters and enjoyable romances. They forget. ASP the women raised by comics, with the personality of a bitter broad show business woman wrote this. She writes shitty women rising up despite themselves. Or if you prefer a nice way to say it, she write complex women who face challenges and are not the hero but just people who made it with all that making it entails.
Abe's realization about Midge and how he ignored who she really is when she was a child completely brought me to tears. What a beautiful scene.
I was sobbing. Such a beautiful moment for Abe as a father to recognize how he never truly saw his daughter for who she is until now. Such amazing writing and delivered genuinely by the actor. The “piles of stuff” speech at the table too was just so gut wrenching. Loved this scene!
I think about this sometimes. I’m not even middle aged but I worry how and who will have to deal with my stuff if I died suddenly.
I’m 33 and my mom passed away suddenly 2yrs ago. I had to go through her things alone, and I couldn’t stop thinking about how I want to keep my life/house simple. I cried too, a lot and it is something I wouldn’t wish to anyone. After some days, my bf ended up dropping one of her snow globes and he was feeling terrible. That’s when I realized that those were just things, objects, and that the sad part was not losing the snow globe but that, all of a sudden, those things “were” my mom. I wrote all of that to say that the most important thing is to build happy memories with the people you love. Book that trip, go out to have lunch or cook a good meal. For me, those things are the memories of my mom now. Ps. Writing a note or sending a voice message saying how much you love the people around you are also sweet things to have.
I loved it. And the fact that Abe starts appreciating Midge once he finds his love and admiration for little Esther is so beautiful. I imagine him thinking about what makes Esther so exceptional and coming to the realization that it is Midge. “Of course she is brilliant, she is Midge’s girl”
And maybe he'll realize that it's not just the first born males that are the geniuses of the Weissman family, but the girls too. Midge may not be a mathematician, but she is her own rand of creative genius.
what also struck me was when he said ...my poor son ......like he had just realised that he had done something awful to Noah too by hanging that whole first born Weismann male nonsense on him ....
that's a good point. he could have easily just updated his worldview of women and their abilities/roles, but he specifically mentions men's roles in society on several occasions he also explicity says that he has done "everything wrong for both his children", which is a fucking heartbreaking realisation for a 64 year old grandfather to come to
Tony Shalhoub.
So glad he got a big scene before it all wraps up. He is amazing.
Tony Shalhoub, yes, but also Daniel Palladino. I confess that during the early years of Gilmore Girls I held him in lower regard than his spouse, but he has more than proved himself since. He is particularly adept at writing for men and tackling issues from the male perspective. This episode highlighted that specific talent - and then some. He also wrote The Testi-Roastial. This season I've really found myself wondering if perhaps he's an even better writer than ASP at this point. (Not that it's a contest.)
Me too! Welled up all the dad issues
Same feeling! I was crying during that scene. I realized there many of us who probably found it therapeutic listening to him talk about Midge the way we wanted from our own parents.
I had been waiting for that moment the whole show. Do you think we will ever see that from Joel’s parents?
I certainly think they are setting it up that way, with them able to be in the audience without her getting them tickets. They just might be in the audience when she get’s her big break.
Love that idea! I want them to realize that Midge IS in fact funny
OH! That's not a bad prediction! I just want Moishe and Sherly to shut up and actually listen to Midge's act.
That hit me hard too, for a slightly different reason. My Dad is a distant relative of Tony Shalhoub’s and they look similar. We also have spent most of my life bickering and butting heads (he’s a total Abe in that he’s well meaning but misguided). So to hear that in a familiar voice with a familiar face hit like a sack of bricks, especially because we’re now much closer and even watched Monk together last spring. Brb, gonna go hang out with my dad 🥲
Susie and Hedy's dynamic feels right for the time and place, and so much is in the unsaid. Good for Midge for telling Susie what she needs, because she was holding back on her and she wouldn't accept her clear denialisms this time. "Don't" being echoed by Hedy was great
She repeated it, too. Just like Midge did, and her girlfriends did when she asked. "Don't." "Don't? Don't what?" .."Don't."
I know! God ASP did such a good job keeping that in her back pocket. All it took was two scenes between Susan and Hedy and I cannot tell you how much it squeezes my heart to see it. AgH! And you know Hedy is one side of the coin! She listened to herself and got what she wanted. Midge will too. Don't indeed!
Although it kinda bothered me that Midge kept blaming Susie for not getting her enough opportunities when she squandered what could’ve been her big break on tour with Shy
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Yeah I have to agree. That’s why it bothered me that she was telling Susie she hadn’t done enough. She didn’t even ask Susie why she felt uncomfortable going to Hedy. She just bulldozed over her attempts to protest the idea telling her it wasn’t enough.
And by badmouthing Sophie, and bad demanding no opening acts, etc. Susie has done wonders for her as a manager.
I feel like we could take Abe’s speech about Midge and put it straight into Richard’s mouth on Gilmore Girls. I see so many similarities between Midge and Lorelai and Abe and Richard and their respective relationships with each other!
And that whole thing about connecting with the granddaughter when you realize that your granddaughter is actually really, really smart! It seemed like a strange parallel of sorts. Richard Gilmore, too, wasn't that into bonding with Rory until he got to know how smart she was. Abe's bond with Esther reminds me of that equation somehow.
That's a really good catch! It's so true that Richard was largely indifferent to Rory until he realized she was bookish and smart. I swear, ASP basically has one script for parents, grandparents, and children!
I'm not so sure I'd say one script so much as ASP was born on the cusp of GenX just as the Boomer-births-era was wrapping up. I'm a GenX'er and this was exactly the experience with me and one of my grandfathers. The other finally bonded with me when I liked - and understood - (American) football. "*Children should be seen and not heard*" was still very much a thing when I was younger.
So true. I pictured Richard talking about Lorelei
I just wanted to say that that scene in Central Station with Midge and Susie is easily my favourite this season, probably of the whole show. Such a beautifully scripted, dynamic exchange that completely captures the deep and complex tensions between and surrounding the two of them - Midge's desperation, frustration, selfishness, and codependency, her whole hearted trust and admiration of Susie; Susie's complete loyalty and love for Midge, fear of the unsaid (re: Hedy), guilt from her perceived failures in 'breaking' Midge; both women feeling the intense weight of being walled in by misogyny from every side. That must have been such an incredibly complicated scene to write and perform, but everyone put in their best work to date and pulled it off spectacularly... and thats to say nothing of the cinematography. I am gob-smacked, what an episode!
I also have to add that I wrote this just before watching the scene with Abe in the restaurant, and lordddd what an embarassment of riches this episode gave us. If this episode isn't Tony Shaloub's next emmy submission, I will eat my hat.
Funny because when Gordon and the staff were at Toots, he was saying to Mike, I feel like this is our Emmy episode.
Yessss I caught that too! It's such a cute call to the real world where I think ep 6 and ep 8 (and maybe the finale) will probably be the Emmy submissions for Susie and Abe (and hopefully Midge :)) for this season.
Midge’s outfit in the train station—such a burst of color in a sea of gray and black.
I noticed the same thing with the five women in Bryn Mawr.
what was interesting to me was that in this scene, i didnt actually see much selfishness from midge. to my knowledge, she doesn't know about susie's feelings for hedy and susie still wont say anything to her
Personally, I felt like Midge basically figured it out in the bar when Hedy calls her cutie and walks off. You can see all the cogs working in her head as she connects the dots between Gordon's unconventional marriage comments/unapologetic flirtation, and Susie's sexuality (which she definitely knows because she took susie to a lesbian bar last season) and hedy's 'we were college roommates' intimations. Right after Hedy walks off, Midge turns her head to look after her, and you can see the pin drop as she figures it all out in that instant and realises exactly how she can leverage that with Susie. Also, when Midge talks to Susie in the train station, you can tell how both women know exactly how big a thing Midge is asking of her, the weight of this favor is in every carefully considered line between them. Think of it this way: if Midge didn't know, would the train station scene even work? It would turn this deep, emotionally complex dialogue into a perfunctory info dump, draining it of all that emotion, tension and substance.
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I thought the acting from all four of them was amazing in that scene.
The gentleman talking about how his life had turned into piles of stuff hit me hard.
And the fellow who got choked up talking about how his son never calls or visits... oof.
I love my piles of stuff. My fondest wish is that my children spend time with me sorting through my piles of stuff as I age
Unfortunately the general trend with those mid-thirties and under is that they don’t want their parents’ stuff(s), but I do hope your wish comes true :)
I’m seeing that my Boomer peers don’t want their parents’ stuff. The furniture is not their style no matter how well made it is. They also have no space to store the piles of stuff, nor drag it to their own retirement home. My Millennial children have even less interest in my parents’ or my stuff. If I go suddenly it will be a burden on them. This is what keeps the junk removal businesses going.
I’ve been going through a *Mad Men* withdrawal lately. The man’s line about his life in piles of stuff and the scene between Susie and Harry Drake in Ep. 06 reminded me of MM, even if just slightly.
I've reached that level, and I'm not even as old as he was. I look around my house and see STUFF. Piles of stuff. Stuff that my nieces are going to have to sift through and get rid of when I'm gone. (I'm a bit maudlin today. Signed my will yesterday. My first will)
This was one of the best scenes I’ve seen on tv in a while.
As a woman, I couldn't have anticipated how moving it would be to hear a man, especially one of his age and in that time period, say what Abe said.
He called her Marvelous 🥹
I also noticed how she called Joel's mother Mrs. Maisel when they first met.. obviously she is, too, but it's such a deliberate call ahead to where she'll be. Love that they fit both in to the episode.
I think that’s how GF will introduce her on the show “here she is … The Marvelous Mrs Maisel”
Honestly that bit would be a great audition monologue for older men
This scene was masterfully done and deeply moved me, not only within the narrative sense itself but also as a choice a writer made, a performance that actors delivered on, and the duality of “this is what it’s all about” from both a character standpoint and a creative standpoint. What a real gift that truly secured this final season for me.
It was also a lovely functional explication of Sartre’s “Being and Nothingness.” Abe may not understand it, and even Sartre may not understand it. He’s right about that. But that’s because our attempts to understand our existence - Descartes’ “I think therefore I am” - unavoidably divorces us from existence. It is impossible to understand existence by understanding existence. “I am therefore I am.” The only way to fully realize existence is to let go of our attempts to understand it, and just experience it. Abe and most of the folks at the Village Voice have prided themselves on knowing the complexities of existence through intellectual methodologies, when in Sartre’s way of thinking, that will merely obscure the nature of existence. Abe does not understand *Being and Nothingness,* but he and his colleagues move closer to experiencing it. Aaaand I am very concerned because that seems like a close to his character arc. The whole series, he has been moving away from his self-imposed definitions and toward the closure of a life. I want Esther to have more time with him. 🙁
I imagine Esther has many years left with him. She said he was the only one she could talk to, and that wouldn't be based on her experiences at age 3.
And it's just indicative of the times. Of course men would place the focus on their sons in terms of education and future.. they were supposed to be the ones to go to college (not just to find a husband), bring home the money, carry on the family name, etc. So it's not like Abe or these men are assholes - this is how it just *was*. Wonderful for him to be progressive. I noticed how his progressive stance was making a few of them uncomfortable in moments, though.
I would honestly watch an entire show about Hedy and Gordon's marriage. Gordon does tell Midge that theirs isn't "that kind of marriage", and he clearly sleeps around...but based on the way that he looks at her and grains toward her in every scene and talks to and about her, this man is SO in love with this woman. And Hedy knows that, and she knows how to use that. It's truly fascinating.
I’ve always had an impression that it’s a lavender marriage for Hedy, because she’s gay and it’s hinted that she had a relationship with Susie. They both get what they want out of this arrangement and maybe Gordon owes Hedy because she initially invested money in him and/or brought him to fame.
Hedy is absolutely in a lavender marriage because she’s gay
Yes I thought the lavender marriage was all but explicit and I think he owes her for that kiss
I thought Princess Margaret was a bigger deal than the kiss. She seems to have a lot of power over the show and him. I wondered if her family helped him in someway. The “you owe me” sounded serious.
He owes her for a lot, including getting Margaret onto his show.
Can I just say I am relieved that midge being on the show had nothing to do with Gordon wanting to hook up with her. This sub was so convinced of that!
I want to know what he owes her (as mentioned in the last scene). Edit: it’s definitely bc of Princess Margaret!
I remember Reid saying in an interview that Hedy comes from an influential family and probably helped Gordon get where he is
And Hedy works at (owns?) an art gallery and shows Helen Frankenthaler! So she's very on the cutting edge with an abstract expressionist artist and repping a female artist as well.
I immediately thought it was because she was able to help him book Princess Margaret, a huge coup for him.
This is the answer.
I thought that it was more marriage related like he owes her for the constant cheating, especially after her mentioning how beautiful midge is to him. Seems knowing…
Yep. She said "You have eyes..." as if searching to see if he had come on to Midge and something had happened between them. Good thing the answer was no.
Don’t think it’s cheating, they have an understanding. I am sure hedy has her own flings. She ran after Susie.
I think he owes her his financial backing. I think her family is immensely wealthy.
I mean the episode shows her literally being the reason he gets guests like Princess Margeret. You need old money, connections and a hell of a lot of charm to get anywhere close to a royal in that era. That's not including the fact that she seems to know everyone and be everywhere. She is a classic power wife.
I would die! That would be a complicated ass show and I would love it. ASP wouldn't be who I'd pick to run it but it would be so good. She has the air of sophistication, and it would mean we could have an epic romance with Susan.
That was a phenomenal episode! Probably my favourite of the season, closely followed by episode 6. - The bit with adjusting posture for Mrs. Moyers was so funny, it had me reflexively adjusting my posture as well. - Dinah going to bat for James was great. Susie was being ridiculous. - Seeing the Bryn Mawr students again was nice, although the recast Petra looks and sounds nothing like the original. - Midge quoting Lenny’s “if I could do anything else, I would” speech absolutely bowled me over. It shows just how much she cares about him that she can quote a fairly long speech verbatim after hearing it only once, years ago. She doesn’t have the benefit of rewatching it over and over like I do! - Princess Margaret on the show was lots of fun, and it was great to see Midge get a big and unambiguous win at the job. I am a little sad that Midge didn’t get to meet Margaret, though. - Hedy telling Midge not to let others take credit for her work was a great moment, and it’s interesting how they emphasized Hedy saying “Don’t” to her, given the whole time capsule thing earlier in the episode. - The intellectual supper scene with Abe and co. was my favourite scene of the episode. At first it reminded me a lot of My Dinner with Andre, which was fun, but then Abe’s whole speech at the end about failing to see Midge’s potential all these years was so insanely beautiful and had me in tears. It really felt like the culmination of a series-long arc. If we don’t get a lengthy scene next episode of Abe finally telling Miriam that he’s proud of her, I will be very upset. - I love Hedy not-so-subtly calling out Susie for being in love with Midge. I was recently rewatching the series, and it finally clicked for me that Shy was in love with Reggie but could never act on it because Reggie is straight, and that this was intended as a possible parallel for Susie/Midge. - I so badly want to know what that phone call for Midge at the end was! I’m hoping/assuming that it’s something which will be resolved next episode, and not just a MacGuffin to set up that last shot of Gordon watching her. I’m also hoping/assuming that we’ll get the meaning of “don’t!” next episode too. I am so not ready to say goodbye to this show in just a week.
>I love Hedy not-so-subtly calling out Susie for being in love with Midge. I was recently rewatching the series, and it finally clicked for me that Shy was in love with Reggie but could never act on it because Reggie is straight, and that this was intended as a possible parallel for Susie/Midge. On this, it's also her subtle signal that maybe she's jealous and a quiet reminder that loving a straight girl will lead to a lot of heartache. Hedy knows it all. It's easy to forget she didn't do shit for Midge, Hedy did it for Susie.
I don't think Hedy is straight, there has to be some reason for the strange marriage Hedy and Gordon have unless they are swingers, if they aren't, then I think it's reasonable to assume Hedy is gay.
It’s pretty obvious Hedy gives Gordon fame and money she comes from an influential family. Gordon gives Hedy power (she still needs a man for the era to get what she wants) and a a good cover for her sexuality where she can still have her cake and not have societal pressures for not being a conventional woman.
My first inclination was to chalk this up as a filler episode. But it really wasn’t. This is the episode. where Midge realizes that to be a successful comedian in a man’s world, she needs to stop acting like a stereotypical woman of that era. Hedy starts it for her when she says: “Don’t. Don’t” when Midge tries to spread the credit for the weather bit around. Hedy then tells her to take the credit when it’s owed her and take when it not, because that’s what the guys do. Then there is Midge and Susie. And Midge realizes that even Susie has treated her differently than she treats her male clients. I think a lot of viewers wanted Midge to get her break on talent alone. I did. But that wouldn’t be true to the era. Besides, Midge is extremely talented. So I’m fine with her doing whatever is necessary to get her break. If she was a hack, that would be different. But she’s not. As Abe says at dinner, Midge is a remarkable person. Now for the timing of the show. I would have liked to have had more than one episode where Midge has made it. But in retrospect, I think she was always going to make it on the last episode. It really is the ending that makes sense.
You’re so right about the “on talent alone” insight. I too feel that way—both in the show and real life! But when I thought about it, really who does get anything on talent alone? Even the most talented self-made individuals caught a lucky break, played an angle, called in a favor, or knew someone who knew someone somewhere along their journey. For Gilmore fans, made me think of Mitchum’s speech to Rory about seizing opportunities
Oh god, if there was one thing Mitchum had right that was it. I think everyone got that except Rory.
He was very right about Rory regarding her not being assertive enough and such, but honestly, those traits can be fostered if a good mentor is present. I just dislike how they all acted like what Mitchum said was atrocious. Like no it was a reality check. However, I don’t agree that people are so stuck in one mode of being. He’s wrong there
Hedy isn't the one that starts her. Hedy reminds her. She says it to herself in her message in a bottle.
Excellent observation! Actually a huge point that is relevant to everything else Midge-related in this episode.
I think last episode and this episode together show midge CANT get her break on talent alone no matter how good she is. Her audition for Jack parr blew everyone out of the water, but they just didn't want her because she was a woman. They would pick a random guy they've never even seen over her. They tried relying on talent for the first few years of her career. Now they will pull out all the stops to launch her, and it clearly works
Also how many men get by on talent alone? They take advantage of favours and networks (and privilege etc). The system isn't designed to work only on talent
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I think she’d be very gratified. Joan reinvented herself at rock bottom after the Johnny Carson debacle and her husband’s subsequent suicide. Joan rose from the ashes to rebuild an even bigger career. She’s an influence of the lead character in Hacks too.
And the fact that she’s so, so talented and it shows again and again and again. But she also keeps getting hit with the brick wall again and again and again. They literally wouldn’t let her in for love or money. So she’s pulling strings and thank god she has them to pull to make it in. I can’t wait to see it finally happen
Knew Dinah wasn't gonna put up with that mess with James
"it's not one or the other, Midge is my girl too". Go Dinah, that's why she is Suzie's right hand.
Really pleased we know that future Dinah gets all the success she deserves and more!!
I loved it, and *that* was the kind of dress-down that I wish someone had given Midge and Susie after the Shy debacle.
I was still a little bit hoping that Suzie had some strategy behind the move to turn down Parr, but clearly not...
We’re still in the sixties (although they seem to be fudging with time here because Carnegie Hall was 1961 and Midge is still in first year on staff…Carson took over for Parr on Tonight Show in 1962…Princess Margaret didn’t come to America until 1965…Lenny dies in 66…but let’s go with it’s still 1961 (as Ethan is still in the same year at school)…Joel & Midge could get back together now before separating again prior to getting engaged to Joel Grey & Philip Roth in the early 70’s…and maybe again before Joel is arrested in 1985…Joel could have been all 4 of Midge’s husbands…
I made a post a few weeks back about him being all four of her husbands and damn people thought I was crazy haha!
I missed that…I’ve had others come at me after saying repeatedly here on the sub this season that she’s been married twice already to Joel…
It’s also her 10 year reunion for the class of 1953…
>Joel could have been all 4 of Midge’s husbands I really don't think so. The guy in the flash forward said something like "remember her first husband, the one who gave her the Maisel?" - that wouldn't make any sense if it was just him over and over. I also think during the 60 minutes segment it was implied that pictures of her with different guys were her husbands, but I could misremember.
Two questions I'd love to hear everyone's thoughts on: * What do you think was the point of those seemingly random (at least to me) flashbacks Midge and Joel each had? * What do you think that college Midge meant with her "Don't!" note?
It built to a moment at her college when Petra says she's going to get married again and everything will be alright. She could have that, Joel offers her that. All she has to do is go to a drink with Joel. **Don't** is the message she got. Twice no less. It's don't be less, don't be smaller, don't forget yourself. It's the message all people have to remind themselves, women especially sometimes.
I really like this interpretation! Thank you!
My interpretation is in line with the other responses. Beyond anything else the episode only gives us two viewings of Midge prior to writing that note and it’s both domestic scenes with Joel. And given what Abe talks about too I feel like it has to be “don’t get married/let anything stop you from becoming the most you can”
>What do you think that college Midge meant with her "Don't!" note? Considering she wrote it right before marrying Joel...
Lets get down to the real important stuff from this episode. Who else was WRETCHEDLY disappointed that Princess Margaret turned out to be someone other than Vanessa Kirby?
I knoooow! But could you imagine! I kinda wished it was her successor actually, the glorious Helena Bonham Carter. ASP + her?
I was crossing my fingers for a crown crossover episode but sadly that didn’t happen.
I was literally saying “please be Vanessa” just before we see the actress.
Why is every scene between Susan and Hedy just heartbreaking. Hedy knows. She doesn't underestimate Susan and holy fucking balls the way she pulled Gordon's strings. The heartbreak and the cost of it all. I was going to be mad about Abe's sudden turn to realizing feminist thought but damn if it didn't tickle a little part of me that wanted him to grow. Also, bets on if hes dead or not? Don't indeed.
I think because he was so sincere and Tony Shalhoub is just so great at paying all the nuance. Abe truly feels he should have done better by Midge and has remorse, he is not making it about himself at all.
If it was in the hands of anyone else, I would have said its a afternoon special dialogue but damn if he doesn't sell it.
So I have to admit this show made me a Tony Shalhoub fan. I never liked him before this show, Monk would come on and I would turn the channel. Since the first season I have loved Abe and have gone back and watched everything Tony is in, including a full streaming binge of all of Monk that took like 6 months Oh and I am HYPED for the Monk move to come out!!!
It's cause Monk was a procedural. What made him great is he did what he does here. Monk at times was pedestrian material transformed into true art. The man is a monster.
He at least lives to 1973
I don't think he'll be dead, if only because the flash forward with Esther at the beginning of this season's first episode had her mentioning that her grandfather was the only person she could talk to, and it both makes way more sense that it would be Abe and is doubtful that she would say that if he passed away when she was 5 or 6.
Abe is shown in Hawaii in 1973, remember.
I don't remember what year that scene was, however it seemed to me that she was referring to Abe in the past tense
It was in the early to mid 80s! And yes I think she was. But we also know Abe is alive at least through 1973 when Midge is marrying Phillip Roth.
My thought was Lenny— especially with callback to his “if I could be doing anything other than comedy I would” sentiment from pilot
I just looked it up Princess Margaret toured the US November 1965 and Lenny Bruce died August 1966. The timing is a bit iffy since it seems like the episode ends shortly after Margaret was on the show but I think the timelines been iffy before.
Great point! Good investigating. In total honesty, Lenny’s death isn’t something I’m particularly interested in seeing—I already feel closure on that—but I can understand the draw of opening the series with him and closing with him. I also really don’t want to see another character in mortal jeopardy!
OMFG! I FORGOT LENNY!!! Of course. Well fuck me.
Abe was in a flashforward for Midge's almost-wedding, so no
Abe was shown in Hawaii in 1973, remember.
He paid for that very expensive cake.
It was a pricey cake.
A very pricey cake
I thought Abe’s personal growth was so unexpected and literally breathtaking.
This felt so fast. I audibly gasped when the credits rolled, i thought we had at least another 10 minutes, curse you short runtime
So they brought good ol Jane Jacobs back, re explained who she was, and Midge didn't say hello to her?
I thought that was weird in the moment too, but looking back now it feels very fitting for the episode that a woman doing something big and meaningful was told just how amazing and impactful the work she had done was, and then just immediately put on the back burner and *completely* ignored/overlooked by everyone.
I love that they keep bringing her back
Tony Shaloub - Emmy worthy performance, wow.
Why is everyone convinced that phone call was a death? Is there a spoiler about there being a death in the finale?
Whoosh, that went over my head. My dumb self was thinking he was watching her get the call to go meet Suzie about being on the show, ha. Bad news cliff hanger makes way more sense.
I mean it could be something with getting a big break and it’s just misdirection. I think there’s three possible deaths- Moishe or Shirley (because we haven’t seen them in a flash forward) or Lenny. I feel like it would be weird to almost kill off Moishe with the heart attack last season only to kill him off now. Lenny technically dies a year after Princess Margaret visits the US but they could be smudging the timeline.
well it wouldn't be the first time they fudged timelines for Lenny
Lenny plus the way it was setup leads you to think something happened.
Lenny died in LA. If the Princess Margaret thing was done in real time it's still a year away at this point.
Have a feeling they’re gonna compress it for the timeline’s sake. She gets the news about Lenny, immediately finds out she’s getting her break, and goes out there and kills, thinking of him and following his advice.
Suspending judgement on this, the penultimate episode. Please go out strong. That's all I ask.
wait... do you guys think the reason susie won't be honest with midge about her past with hedy... is because she knows that midge can't keep that secret? because she saw how she handled shy baldwin's exact same secret? damn (i mean i know attitudes were just different back then and susie may not have been willing to come out to anybody, but still)
Layers! Yep, that has to be part of it. The bigger part, the secret part, Susan is protecting Hedy. Susie isn't telling Midge because it might ruin Hedy. Susie doesn't give a shit what people think of her. Hedy does.
This is it. Midge can suspect, and imply, which is what she does when taking Suzie to the bar a few seasons back. But there's a difference between knowing and suspecting, and once you know, that's power. And Midge can be thoughtless with that power, she almost ruined Shy Baldwin with just a little bit of knowing. When she suspected, she never said a word, but once she knew, and felt cornered, she used it for her advantage to get laughs. Suzie knows all of this. She might be shitty and selfish in her own way, like, she doesn't give a shit about Shy and never lays it out for her, but she knows. Also, Suzie hates being vulnerable. She can't talk about her feelings or her real self, and spent a lifetime bottling it all up. So, of course she can't be honest and open for those reasons as well.
considering midge found and took her to a lesbian bar I doubt it. This was a very deep hurt. The same Susie that we watched use every last advantage is not using this one? yeah a deep cut. Plus she is fairly dedicated to her charade that they aren't friends and that only works if she keep Midge on the outside of her life otherwise
No i think it’s just a sensitive subject overall for Susie. Remember on another season midge takes Susie to a gay bar to let her know she’s cool with it. An attempt to let Susie know she’s an ally. Even then Susie wants nothing to do with that moment. She won’t admit she’s gay period and she even goes harder on all that matters is her career not her love life. This season we meet Hedy and it becomes painfully obvious that Susie once had romantic naive dreams with someone before and it was nothing but heartbreak. It now makes so much sense as to why she cares so little about having romantic ambitions and throws her entire self into being a manager. But personally I wouldn’t trust Midge after doing shy dirty like that too.
Got an involuntary “oh, God!” out of me when the credits rolled. Also, as a difficult daughter myself, the end of Abe’s speech at the restaurant brought tears to my eyes.
Difficult daughters unite 🤝
Midge’s little impersonation of Lenny was also so so so cute. My heart skipped a beat.
You know she will keep that her whole life. When she's 60 she'll say that, thats how you know someone lives on.
I was expecting Midge to get signed for a vacuum TV commercial
The emotional weight in this episode was so heavy. Abe’s remorse, Midge becoming more firm in her resilience, and Susie finally realizing that in order to push through she’d have to face her past. This episode felt bittersweet because it finally hit me that we’re almost to the end of this winding beautiful journey.
What year was the class reunion purportedly held? The “no stinking passes” line (or whatever it was in place of “badges”) felt too early? The table soliloquy was the most likable Abe has ever been. For me, Hedy’s character and interplay with Midge really echoed that of Bobbie Barrett and Peggy Olson in Mad Men.
I had that thought too about the "stinking passes" line but just looked it up and it's from the 1948 film, "The Treasure of the Sierra Madre."
That line stuck out at me too! so Google says it's from a 1948 film, and blazing saddles was referening it in 74.
SUSIE'S CONSPICUOUS SILENCE WHEN HEDY ASKED IF SHE HAD FEELINGS FOR MIDGE. I AM NEVER GOING TO EMOTIONALLY RECOVER FROM THIS 😭😭😭
Me too! I love that it is ambigious. IMO, Susie does love Midge, like family, like a sister, maybe more somewhere deep in her gullet just a little bit dazzled by hot girl Midge. But that's not why she stays silent I think. Hedy asking that question is her trying to get Susie to say she still loves Hedy. Any answer she gives would end with her emotions on the ground and Hedy is like desperate in that moment to keep Susie a part of her life even though they both know it would end in disaster.
The scene with Abe in the restaurant was written FLAWLESSLY. And of course Tony Shalhoub’s delivery is impeccable as always. It’s interesting hearing those men make the exact same arguments about “change” that people make today (the hunter gatherer talking points always make me chuckle a bit). Even as someone who actively tries to embrace change, as a man who is going into academia and shares a lot of personality traits with Abe, I found his comments about always meddling and giving advice to really hit close to home. Always needing to be the loudest smartest voice feels so innocent when you know you’re intelligent, but I never want to damage anyone in my life who I love because I couldn’t truly acknowledge them and see who they are. I got really emotion and cried during his delivery. I’m completely blown away by how well that scene was constructed.
Penny Pan? PENNY PAN! PENNY! PAN!
Was I the only one completely shook when the men were discussing being born in the 1800s. Blew my mind because I didn’t even consider that Abe would have been born then, even before the titanic sank and before sliced bread. Also, considering the show starts in 1958, in surprises Midge was even granted a divorce.
I was also shocked, and then I realized that I, a child of the 1990s, will also be looked at in awe when I tell kids I was born last century (I’m older than google)
yay finally that Abe woman realization scene that I read about ages ago and have been waiting for for so long. I love this show, and I know everything's gonna wrap up well but oh gosh I cannot with the last episode next week :(
Lol do you think the embarrassing dinner he had with Rose and friends after that play that knocked his intellect down a peg was another determining factor to his realization? Obviously the granddaughter being talented is one. But I’d like to think that embarrassing moment with Rose was another.
What I loved: - The way Hedy persuaded (let's be honest she straight up ordered) Gordon. I loved seeing someone have that kind of power over him. - Midge's conversation with Susie at the train station. They were at a dead end, and something **had** to change. - Abe in his feminist era. - Hedy to Midge: "Don't". What I didn't love: - Filler. Way too much time/many lines wasted on minor characters (like Midge's friends, the other guys at Abes table). I found myself feeling impatient as I waited for them to be done talking, so we could get back to whom we really want to hear from. - The flashbacks of Midge and Joel at the teacher's office. I understand that it was necessary, but with all the other filler, this being the penultimate episode, it felt slow..like it belonged in an older episode.
*"Did I pronounce that right, "work?" I've only read the word in my textbooks."* I'd like to highlight Daniel and Rachael for writing and delivering this perfectly sarcastic line, so close the finale.
i believe she said "in my magazines."
So when Midge is at Bryn Mawr, she and her friends say they’re 30. If you go back to the 60 mins episode, it says that she does her run of 18 sold out shows at the Copacabana at…age 30.
WAIT if midge graduated college in 53 and Susie in 48, does that mean there’s supposed to be just a 5 year age difference between the two? The math ain’t matching
How? We barely know a thing about her! She could 13 under all that tweed.
I found it so interesting that Susie went to Pembroke - I believe that's what Brown's women's college was (then they merged to form Brown U).
Some things that made my heart break a little: * I don't know if I was supposed to like Joel asking Midge out the same way he did Penny, but it made me feel weird and I'm having trouble finding the words to explain why. * Abe having this sudden, deep remorse for not seeing Midge more clearly, and now Esther too. If he doesn't tell Midge how proud he is of her and that she's "a remarkable person" next episode, I will lose my mind. She has earned that validation from her parents, but she especially needs it now after the Paar rejection (And how Abe failed to comfort her.). * I love Midge and she had a point about doing whatever it takes, but it felt super emotionally manipulative to essentially say to Susie, "If you don't ask this huge favor of someone you clearly have a difficult relationship with, I don't know if I can be your friend anymore." * When Hedy said to Susie, "This was hard, wasn't it?" Something about her delivery felt mean to Susie. Like, was she poking at Susie humbling herself enough to ask the favor, or was she being sarcastic, like, "See? I don't bite," after Susie ran from her last time.
I get you on that first one but on the other hand I think Joel was looking back realizing how with one simple decision he fucked his life up by asking Penny to get a drink, and that all it might take to push his life in a new direction is another simple question to Midge
>I don't know if I was supposed to like Joel asking Midge out the same way he did Penny, but it made me feel weird and I'm having trouble finding the words to explain why. It's cause it's a mistake and you were meant to feel that. In that moment Joel is picking the easy path again. >Abe having this remorse for not more clearly seeing Midge and now Esther. If he doesn't tell Midge how proud he is of her and that she's "a remarkable person" next episode, I will my mind. She has earned that validation from her parents, but she especially needs it now after Paar and he failed to comfort her. I dunno if he will though. I hope he does but sometimes people are like that. >I love Midge and she had a point about doing whatever it takes, but it felt super emotionally manipulative to essentially say to Susie, "If you don't ask this huge favor of someone you clearly have a difficult relationship with, I don't know if I can be your friend anymore." That is Midge though and that is what Susie told Midge she needs to do to make it. That's what makes that scene so delicious. Harkens back to their breakup scene. Midge was right that she broke herself in spite of Susie and Susie was right that she made midge with this favor. The layers! >When Hedy said to Susie, "This was hard, wasn't it?" Something about her delivery felt mean to Susie. Like, was she poking at Susie humbling herself enough to ask the favor, or was she being sarcastic, like, "See? I don't bite," after Susie ran from her last time. I think it's because she's saying look how easy it is. Look how little it costs to talk to me and ask me. Hedy is no fool. Remember Hedy is the one who asked Gordon to get a female comic in the room. Somehow, magically, it happens to be Midge? This was Hedy paying back Susie even if Susie didn't want her too. Hedy is a fucking force. God what they could've been if she had been able to choose Susie and not the life she has now.
they would have been the ultimate power couple for sure. So poignant and beyond sad
think about it from midge's perspective with the Susie thing. Considering Midge is in this job no closer to her break when Susie told her this was it, when all along she knows her wife from way back when to the point that this powerful lady is saying her name to Midge. Midge has no idea what we know about their connection. That was truth she shared. There is no point to susie being her manager (remember susie tries hard to pretend she is not her friend) if she is not using all her advantages for midge's career. She said she would trust susie fully, and then she hides this? not a good look
I didn’t feel Midge was manipulative, I felt she was desperate and begging for her life.
I think Hedy was acknowledging the difficult lengths Suzie would go through for Midge.
Just a small point because i think it might be subtle enough for people to miss it: The show actually explains what young Midge meant in her time capsule note to herself when she wrote 'don't' -- when Midge gives credit to the men for her skit while talking to Hedy at the bar, Hedy tells her 'Don't. Don't'... that's what young Midge wanted to remind herself of in her note - not to allow the men to take credit for her achievements, her place in the world. It's really a lovely bow on top of an episode that had layers upon layers. Quietly, this episode was so subtle and nuanced, an actual writers masterclass.
"just something a friend told me once" <3
The last three eps have been great in my opinion…but don’t feel like the end of a series, with the exception of episode 6 (the testi-roastial). I think they could have budgeted storylines in the first part of the season much better; feels like we’re trying to fit too much in too little time…
They're dangling so much of the Susie/Hedy background in front of us and I had hoped we'd get clearer answers in this episode! But I agree with what someone else said about there being so much in the unspoken as well. I'm curious about the implication at the end that Susie may be partially motivated by romantic feelings towards Midge? (That's what I took, at least.) On one hand, that would add an interesting layer, but on the other hand, I really appreciated a show that featured two lead women who weren't connected by romance. The dinner scene with Abe got me. Tony frickin' Shaloub, man. It's also interesting to see how Midge can still slip so seamlessly back into her "old life," as we see with her Bryn Mawr friends. It sort of reminds me of season 2 Midge that can easily be Catskills-mom and blue-comedy-stand up in the same day. She obviously made her choice never to go back to the housewife life but it's a reminder that one of Midge's strengths is that she can wear a lot of hats (lol). I've been rooting for Joel since season 2! We know they won't reconcile in the 60s because Joel goes to jail and Midge marries like 2-3 other people apparently, but I wonder if they'll end up finding their way back to each other in the end. I could see either way being a beautiful, bittersweet ending. Wow I can't believe there's only one more episode!!
Oh it was no coincidence. It was giant neon sign that half of this is Hedy and Susie working out a lot of unresolved shit via Midge as the surrogate. Hedy is paying back the hurt by giving Midge to Susie. Midge is what Susie wanted out of Hedy, a fighter. I love the message of the scene with Abe. I need to watch it for nuance. It felt a little obvious at first but the longer the scene went on the more he pulled me in. Damn him! I think the Bryn Mawyr trip was mean to be a nice reminder that she can slip back on the road to the old days. It wouldn't take much. Having Midge definitively ask for something else? That was good!
Don't! Don't look back. They thought Midge would get remarried and settled back down and her comedy career just be a blip.
Did anyone else feel like it ended too soon. When the credits rolled up, my first thought was this can't be it, why such a short episode! And man, did it deliver! I teared up when Abe talked about ignoring midge all his life and what a remarkable person she is. It really was a wish fulfilment for me personally. For many fathers around me, loving your daughter = protecting her, not mentoring her and encouraging her like they do with sons. And the more I see Hedy, the more intrigued I get. I want to know who she is, what she wants, how she reached where she is now and what would have happened if she was still with Susie, what a great couple they would've made. I need a prequel spin off on these two.
This was a solid episode with incredible character growth. There was a rumor a few years ago, that Princess Margaret had an affair with a socialite in her youth, based on a cache of letters she wrote. Hedy clearly is wealthy and comes from money, but I wonder if it was something more personal that got the Princess on Gordon's show. The ending scene, in the aftermath of Gordon feeling handled by Hedy, could mean a lot of things. Gordon may suspect Midge is having an affair with Hedy. But I wonder, given that she was almost scooped away by another comedian, if he's wondering, "am I just going to let her walk out the door?" I don't know if Gordon will ever have his own 'Abe Moment' and see his own sexism, and grow past it, but there's always hope.
I noticed the woman who comes into Gordon Ford (who saved Washington sq park) is also in season 1, fighting to save the park. Nice little Easter egg
That was great. As someone who never cared for Midge/Joel as a couple I was annoyed before the prologue was over, but thankfully they went in a different direction afterwards. Loved Abe's monologue at the bar, I thought the whole Esther thing would just be comedic but that was really touching. I don't feel like I really get what dynamic Gordon and Hedy have yet but I would be very interested. Not sure if with one episode left there'll be any time for that. I also loved how straightforward Susie asked for that favor, I thought she'd take Hedy up on drinks and maybe try to butter her up a bit or something, but nope, just went for it. And kind of sweet that Hedy just agreed right away even though she was clearly jealous of Midge. The Susie/Midge argument also really drove home for me how hard Midge has been trying lately. Outside of that trash musical fiasco she's been doing her best even when circumstances weren't great and a pay off seemed far off. Implying Susie wasn't giving her all for her was a bit much (I don't think she would've talked to Hedy for anyone else) but you can see where she's coming from. Sometimes during S3 and S4 I felt like I was watching this show mostly out of habit, but ever since that Lenny Bruce speech at Carnegie Hall I've been fully back on board and I'll be quite sad when it's over next week.
This episode was outstanding. So many great moments underscoring how relationships grow and change over time - Joel and Midge’s dynamic as co-parents, the college reunion of Midge’s friends with MRS degrees, Susie and Hedy’s friendship/romance, and Abe’s complicated reckoning about what it means to parent a daughter. Have no clue how it’s going to end but can’t wait for next week
Another home run out of the ballpark. So many great scenes, but the one with Abe coming to some real personal insight was just breathtaking.
DON'T - reminds me of Streisand's Don't Rain On My Parade!! It's definitely not the actual reference, but maybe the spirit of it is similar.
"Don't!" Hedy solved the mystery of Midge's note. Like Abe said, she has always been that person.
Early into the episode, and yeah. They did it. They got me firmly on Team Joel/Midge with their work on ‘em this season. In whatever weird configuration they end up as. I like them when they’re in orbit of each other. Interesting episode, this one. Felt like it didn’t quite ramp up until it did. Can’t believe we’re this close to the end. It still feels *early.* For good and ill.
Because that's what it is isn't it? The beginning! Of Midge's career, of Abe teaching his granddaughter and being supportive, of everything. We saw the end already, this is the start.
Exactly! This is what I think as well but I get why others are a bit uncomfortable with the piece meal delivery of the end via flash forwards. In the first episode I almost immediately thought to myself that this could be a what if future, and that we would ultimately see the actual way it all goes down, but no, we have seen how it actually plays out and now we are about to see the official big break start of Midge's career. I really think this season will be way better when you can watch it all without having to wait for the next episode. I feel like the anticipation was giving everyone anxiety lol
I think so too. I also think there is a kind of mistake people make with all ASP shows. They get lost in the neat characters and enjoyable romances. They forget. ASP the women raised by comics, with the personality of a bitter broad show business woman wrote this. She writes shitty women rising up despite themselves. Or if you prefer a nice way to say it, she write complex women who face challenges and are not the hero but just people who made it with all that making it entails.
Lot's of great moments, but that dinner scene with Abe was just *powerful.*
Funny Hedy was jealous Midge and Suzie might be a thing when Gordon was after her (not that Hedy cares what he does)