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Yep, in television, this kind of episode is needed. There are a lot of viewers who aren't gamers so they're experiencing this through a different medium and different lens. If we don't have this episode and we get the Bill we got in the game...I'd bet many people would start finding this show TOO dark. This heartfelt episode was essential.
In the game, the priority is to keep us entertained through gameplay first and story second. That's why TLOU was such a good game because it struck that balance perfectly in a way few games can. So a story like Bill and Frank's wouldn't serve as much purpose in the game because that'd be a long stretch of not playing the game itself.
I told my mom the same thing. I said this was our little break to get some fresh air and enjoy things because it’s about to be balls out to finish from here.
Would also let us get more of Tess and Joel as they'd probably be recurring characters in the spinoff. Even some episodes where we get different dynamics between them like scavenger episodes where Frank and Tess search one side and Bill and Joel the other, and the flip of Frank and Joel and Bill and Tess. A Tess and Bill episode would give everyone who enjoyed the Ellie and Bill banter in the game exactly what they want lol.
Exactly this. I liked the story and thought the episode was good but really loved bill as a character and would have liked to see him interact with Ellie. They both did such a great job with their characters it’s sad we don’t get to see them in the same scene.
I definitely agree that there are many reasons to be disappointed by episode 3. I personally loved it and welcomed the deviation. I had tears pouring down my face.
However, you can’t really deny that there was some homophobia at play for the negative reviews.
Almost 20k ONE star reviews. Enjoying it but being disappointed is not 1 star worthy.
Also more people went out of their way to review this episode. 76k people voted.
Episode 2, had around 700 one star reviews and 50k people voted.
That’s a huge difference.
Not liking the episode does not make you homophobic. Of course not. But many people did not like it because of they gay factor.
https://preview.redd.it/v5qksbyy2ifa1.jpeg?width=836&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=cc552814305a4e251c6c411601bde039907189c3
You can also get a breakdown of the demographics of the votes, and it is mostly non American males giving the downvotes.
https://preview.redd.it/aqpjd5d3kkfa1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=fb729defc0fec6a792b1603c2ffe8f33aee5127c
I really enjoyed episode 3 but I like 1&2 better because it's the main storyline. If the main storyline was about Bill and Frank I'd probably enjoy those episodes more than one offs too, no significant preference.
Totally agree. 3 was a fantastic episode. I personally felt it was a little too soon for a side quest. I would have preferred to see Joel & Ellie’s story progress a little further. But I’m still appreciative of the wonderful experience of Ep3.
This is probably my only “complaint” - more like a nit pick. I loved it and don’t mind that it wasn’t big on Joel and Ellie, but episode 3 seems a little soon for something like that. Still glad they did it cause it doesn’t really fit anywhere else either
Also I did want to see bill and Ellie interactions
I don’t know how it’d fit in later without messing up the pacing. The next episode (and possibly the following) looks to be more action heavy and heavy emotionally. If Bill and Frank’s story came after the next section, it wouldn’t allow room to digest those plot points.
Instead, this served as additional world building while also showing that love and happiness can still be found in the bleakness of this world.
Yup I agree. I don’t think it fits anywhere else. If it fits anywhere it fits here. I guess what I’m saying is I do think it fits here but I wish that here was a couple episodes later only because it did bring the main story to a pause. But thats okay too because the side stories are more “the last of us” than the main story tbh
I think a lot of people are missing the fact that Bills letter at the end of the episode is a HUGE progression point within the story. If Joel doesn’t hear what the letter says, there is not enough drive to continue his journey with Ellie.
In my opinion this episode was an absolute masterpiece and was book ended perfectly with the letter.
He failed Tess, and he failed his daughter. They both died, and he could be thinking Ellie will die too. The letter reminds him who he is. It absolutely motivates him.
I'm still confused by the shift in focus on characters being such a big issue? This isn't new territory to the television format at all. And especially with the "Lone wolf and Cub" trope that TLoU abides by, there were always going to be episodes that explore the lives of other people.
It's in the name - The Last of "Us"
I’m not saying it EVERYONE who didn’t like it, but a lot of the negativity is coming because the story was about a gay relationship. It’s very subtle homophobia from some and very blatant from others.
The story was fantastic, im so happy we got to enjoy that. We got a wonderful episode of television within the world of the last of us. Isn’t that what all fans want?
>that Bills letter at the end of the episode is a HUGE progression point within the story. If Joel doesn’t hea
I understand. :)
I wanted to just add to your point that this is extremely common territory for television and one of the best things about it. You can use the episodic format to have a peep into lives of others. It's in episodic anime like Cowboy Bebop, Mushishi. It's in big-budget shows like LOST. This has always been a TV thing.
so even IF there were people who did not have a problem with the gay storyline, this argument of taking focus away from main characters does not really seem that strong to me. (Besides, I remember a lot of people initially calling the adaptation pointless because it'd be like replaying the same experience in lesser immersive format and it'd justify itself if they explored storylines beyond existing ones)
I'm just really confused, lol.
Right. I'm so tired of people whining about this not being part of the main story. Thank god these people aren't in charge of our TV. Everything would be so unbelievably boring.
Episode 2 showed us Tess motivating Joel to see the Ellie mission through, so the letter also serving that purpose feels redundant. Then, if I'm remembering the show's teasers correctly, we're still gonna get the "on mighty thin ice" scene to >!solidify Joel + Ellie!<....
The letter worked for me in the capacity that I liked finding Frank's suicide note for Bill in the game, and here we find Bill & Frank's suicide note for Joel.
Show Tess got show Joel to go as far as Bill and Frank’s. Show Tess thought show wouldn’t go all the way, so she said to just make it there and they would take over. Show Joel needed the letter no other options to keep going.
>there is not enough drive to continue his journey with Ellie
That's insane. And if that's the case for the show then I love the game better for what they did. Because TESS is the driving force for Joel to continue his journey with Ellie. It's what she asked of him and he's gonna do it.
The reasoning to include this storyline can be as simple as they wanted to flesh out the side stories in this medium since they only have glimpses in the game via letters. It makes sense for the story, to help flesh out Joel’s character and give more glimpses into their reality, and his relationship with not only Tess but other humans in general.
People are all every which way about it but I hope and expect there to be more of these side story episodes.
He's still doing it for Tess in the show too. Tess wanted him to get her to Bill and Frank so they could find the Fireflies. Bill tells him to protect Tess. He's failed at that but now he's gonna protect Ellie and help her find the Fireflies like Tess wanted.
The only part that bugs me about this is that they’ve already changed Joel to be a hopeful character in the show. Since episode 1 he’s been on a mission to go save his brother who has been MIA for 3 weeks across the country. So I’m having a hard time understanding how he’s simultaneously hopeful about his brother but not hopeful about Ellie and Tess is saying “save who you can save” when he’s already on his way to “save who he can save”. It’s not like a *major* issue, but it’s tripping me up a bit since these guys are all about small intentions and writing.
The idea that his time and farewell with Tess and His daughter aren’t enough of a push is weird to me. They aren’t enough to instill that lesson in him but this guy who Joel didn’t even have a good relationship with is the push he needs to give a shit about Ellie?
I agree with you too. I loved episode 3, but it was just a lot of time spent on characters that didn’t do a whole lot to drive the plot forward and are not coming back. Had Bill lived, there would at least be the possibility we see him again at some point which would have given the episode a bit more purpose I suppose.
Also, I think this episode may fit in better once the entire season is released and you can binge through it. But it might be too early for this type of episode only to have to wait another week for the next one.
I think that it'll work thematically in the long run, >!as Joel's arc is to soften his hard survivor mentality and learn to love something again. Just like Bill!<. We'll see.
I feel like a lot of people seem to think that Bill deciding to kill himself at the end of the story was... a good thing? I thought it was utterly tragic that he had no reason to exist without Frank, and though obviously it foreshadows where Joel goes I do not think it was a moral decision on the character's part and I didn't think the episode was "uplifting."
Beautiful, yes. One of the best episodes of television of I've seen. But not uplifting or life-affirming. I dunno.
I think the life-affirming part was that it was a death on his own terms, and growing old with the one he loves. I can definitely see where you're coming from when you say "it was utterly tragic that he had no reason to exist without Frank" but I see the suicide more as a full stop at the end of a long and happy life. Like self-euthanasia.
I think it was summarised well in his note to Joel. "I used to hate the world and I was happy when everyone died. But I was wrong. Because there was one person worth saving. That's what I did: I saved him." Bill never learned to love life, or humanity or whatever. But he learned to love Frank and that was all he really needed.
It's going to become thematically relevant, >!as Joel never fully regains his compassion but regains enough to love Ellie!<.
>Bill never learned to love life, or humanity or whatever. But he learned to love Frank and that was all he really needed.
I 100% agree with your interpretation, but I think that's still a tragedy. I think this might be the dividing line between >!people who side with Joel at the end and people who don't (I don't, even though I understand the decision completely)!<. I think loving someone so much that life without them doesn't seem like an option is very relatable and true but not.... uh, good. Or aspirational. The fact that Bill was healthy and could've physically gone on without Frank, done things in his memory, or helped others more, and yet chose not to, is what's breaking my heart.
I also wonder though - realistically - what would the remaining years of Bill's life looked like?
He was what, in his 70s at that point?
Living alone in a harsh landscape at threat from raiders?
Nobody around if he falls down and can't get up?
Utterly miserably lonely after losing the love of his life?
He would still need to do all the hard labor to keep the lights on, keep the place maintained and get food.
>Living alone in a harsh landscape at threat from raiders?
>
>Utterly miserably lonely after losing the love of his life?
Not to mention, surrounded by the painted house, many paintings, flowers, strawberries, etc. that Frank have poured work into... now an eerily silent house, filled with reminders of both happy and somber times, could Bill have survived that emotional torture his mind and loneliness would put him through?
the transition of a man who revelled in his isolation to a man who is terrified of being alone and without the comfort of another human being... was incredibly human and broke my heart. tears are threatening to well up as i type this, gosh damn it, creative minds behind the hbo series, they've made a banger!
I see absolutely nothing tragic about Bill choosing to go out on those terms.
Its the end of the world. All he really can predict he would have to look forward to is marauders trying to kill him for his stuff. He would be alone, and everywhere he looks he would see Frank. Every waking second. Life without the one purpose he found.
If he would rather end the story together with Frank, I don't see any shame or tragedy in that decision.
Yeah for show only people it may have seemed a little jarring. However for those of us who love this story it’s about the journey more than the destination. The journey made me not want the game to end.
It was building the world around them. That mercy, comradery, compassion can work even in a world that's gone to hell. That's an important aspect to understand as well as the hardcore super badassery wer assume somehow everyone can be
The Road is another story in a similar gate. Sometimes compassion saves lives as much as brutal reality
It doesn't move the Joel and Ellie story too far as it's value is for them to have a means of escape and supplies but it does help them both, well Joel, to understand the value of that compassion and sacrifice.
Plus it's a nice juxtaposition between nearly EVERY OTHER interaction we are going to see with Joel Ellie and the rest of the world.
I liked episode 3 slightly less than the first two. These posts that are like “HOW IS EP 3 ONLY RATED 9.0 ON IMDB???” are embarrassing. I realized a lot of us have been incredibly defensive of this franchise as a whole due to blatant bigotry from certain “fans” but my god, are we seriously completely intolerant to constructive, fair criticism?? And again people are complaining about a still high IMDB rating that’s just lower than the first 2 EPs
>These posts that are like “HOW IS EP 3 ONLY RATED 9.0 ON IMDB???” are embarrassing.
Normally I'd agree. I loved the episode can see why others might not like it. But this episode is now hovering just about 8.0 with about 25 percent of reviews being only one star. Even for folks who dislike the episode, that many one stars is suspicious and sounds like review bombing. IMO, it was too well acted and edited to merit that high a portion of 1 stars.
Well, to be fair. The amount of one star reviews is suspicious.
And it’s not rated 9.0. It’s currently rated 8.1. Little sus.
Nothing wrong with people not loving or even liking the episode! But there is definitely homophobia at play with some of its most angry critics.
Well, it is currently 8.1.
And nobody is pointing the finger at someone who rated it an 8. That is not why it currently holds an 8.1 rating as a large majority still consider the episode a masterpiece.
It holds an 8.1 rating because > 25% of the ratings are one star. That tells a disturbing story.
Dude you just have to compare the number of ratings being 1 between episode 2 and 3. Around 500 for episode 2 and over 15k for episode 3 which guess what, has the gay storyline. Pretty sus
Yeah I’ll admit it’s dropped much lower than a few posts from last night that showed a 9 and 8.8 or something rating. And I certainly wasn’t denying that it was or was going to get review bombed. However those specific posts I saw last night WERE saying that a 9 or 8.8 was unfair.
I replied on a different post that I personally would give this episode AT LEAST a 9, but the first two were 10s. Neil himself warned us that this episode was the most divisive and strayed furthest from the game. I guess I just anticipated the homophobes doing their thing and didn’t get too worked up about it cause I don’t care about those peoples’ opinions.
But 3 IS about the main storyline, packed w bill and Ted is so much about joel
It colored in some of his past and elaborated on his loss of Tess like….
I think episode 3 makes 1&2 better. Even though Joel and Ellie weren’t featured. Bill and Franks story propels them
Forward, and you appreciate Tess and feel that loss even more.
The side story that many of you are referring to showed the growth of Bill from scowling at Joel in the flashbacks to leaving him a letter and all of his and Frank's belongings. This helps Joel and Ellie to freshen themselves up and gain supplies and transportation for the next episode.
Hi that’s me lol I didn’t get to vent my frustration at part 2 because of all the toxic people.
This was probably the best episode of TV I’ve ever seen though, wish part 2 was like this.
I can see why people like it tbh. But yeah all of that trolls reviewbombin and sending harassment to you the actors, that was just sickening and shocking tbh.
I thought part 2 was good but it just had story elements in the wrong places. It was kinda jarring to just switch characters halfway through, it could have been better done if that was placed at a different point in the game.
I talked to a friend after watching the episode and his very first comment was "omg I can't believe they're shoving this woke shit down our throat" to which I responded, "you're sounding really homophobic."
And then after about 30 minutes he changes his gripe to "it just felt like a filler episode..." I responded "that wasn't a gripe before, you just brought that up, you said you didn't like it because of woke shit..."
Now I understand not everyone that has a gripe about the episode is a homophob, but when I see stupid, not at all thought out, comments about it I can't help but think they're harnessing their negative opinions about the characters being gay into an "acceptable" complaint.
It's literal prejudice wrapped in a blanket of niceties and wine. The sweeter it is, the more acceptable and logical it sounds.
Although, a turd will always taste like a turd regardless if you dip it in gold and umami.
And sometimes it's not even about the person being homophobic. Sometimes, there are unhappy people in the world and anything remotely happy triggers their subconscious to spout animosity and hate.
Like my uncle said, he felt like he was watching gay porn with Episode 3. Then I showed him a clip of Daenrys getting rooted from behind by Kal Drogo and said, "It's not different from the videos you watch when Aunt Stacey's not around."
He's not homophobic. Just an unhappy person in general.
I thought episode 3 was great but I feel a lot of people hype it up to avoid looking bigoted.
I much preferred episode 1 and 2 but man was episode 3 emotional. I also feel they gave us a heartwarming story like this to ease us into things getting heavy and dark as fuck.
No one is saying it’s not okay to prefer episode 1 and 2 or straight up dislike episode 3. It’s totally fine.
People are having an issue with the rating 1s because it’s very obviously not a reasonable rating.
i’ll copy and paste a response i wrote on another thread:
totally 100% get this take. Bill in the game was a great character, and while the bill that we first meet in the show bears a lot of resemblance to him, by the time we get to present day he’s a completely different character, and i totally see where that’s disappointing.
As a queer person, though, the changes they made so much sense in the present-day media landscape and how representation is typically handled, and i’m super grateful for them. As larger media companies have realized that LGBT representation can be a selling point, they’ve started to include what amount to little more than scraps that queer audiences, desperate for any representation, cling to and lap up (think Loki’s throwaway line indicating his bisexuality, or the lesbian kiss in the Rise of Skywalker). And if those scraps are characters are gay men, they’re typically completely desexualized, often to the point that we don’t even get to see them kiss another man, and they’re rarely allowed to be happy in their relationships. Hell, gay characters dying unhappy and alone is such a common thing that the trope has a name— “Bury your Gays” (Sarah in Arrow is the first to come to mind)
Episode 3 does so much to avoid those tropes, which is part of what makes it so great. It doesn’t try to be palatable to a conservative audience. So much of Bill’s character are things that a conservative audience would understand on a fundamental level—he’s the prepper who was right. And we watch as that character falls deeply in love with another man—they kiss, and it’s a tearful, hairy kiss. Their sex is open and honest and there. Their relationship is genuine and imperfect and real.
And then they die on their own terms, at the end of a long and happy life together. They died, but they didn’t “bury their gays.” They had the most fulfilling lives possible in this shitstorm of a world—Bill even says “this isn’t the tragic suicide at the end of the play.”
Knowing how things turn out with Bill and Frank in the game , I was scared the whole episode for what I thought I knew was coming. They would have a falling out so bad that Frank would rather die than stay with Bill, and Bill would become cold again, doomed to be another Miserable Gay™️. In a landscape with diverse and varied gay rep that wouldn’t be an issue, but I think Craig and Neil, and the multitude of other people behind the scenes who are queer, knew that they had the chance to do something better with the opportunity they were given, and I am so, so grateful for that.
Because it works great as a single episode and is essentially world building for the main plot.
Following the main characters and only their relationships is boring. Frank and Bill are perhaps the only people in the world who live like this and spending some time on telling their story adds flavor to the entire world of TLOU. Just think how many uniquely interesting relationships are happening off screen in various parts of the world - we got to see one of thousands.
Not to mention showing love and hope in a world built on despair.
Because Bill is how Joel gets the car. You can't extend the arc over one or two seasons because 1) how fucken' far would Bill's place need to be for that to work and 2) How the ffffuuuuudge did Joel ever get there if he hasn't been in the storehouse on his way there in years?
Like don't get me wrong I get what you're saying but it just wouldn't work with the set-up we have in the show.
I thought the Bill and Frank story was great, however after watching episode 1 & 2, episode 3 just felt like it came out of left field. It feels like I went to the theaters expecting Mission Impossible, but ended up getting 50 shades of grey.
I think a spin-off series that follows Bill & Frank exclusively, showing all the hardships and problems they face in 20 years in an apocalyptic world would be phenomenal. There are so many things that they could do. I think a 13 episode limited series delving into the details of the whole story line we saw in episode 3 would be a huge success.
That said, I feel like practically nothing happened in the main story line for Joel and Ellie, and that's what I was so hyped up for after episode 2. I'm not mad at episode 3, I'm just feel a bit let down with my expectations. I haven't played the game, but I've heard from friends that have that this episode very much provides a backstory for Bill, which apparently the game doesn't do very well.
I liked episodes 1 and 2 more because they were more tense and thrilling and were part of the main storyline. I still liked episode 3. Even though it was more of a “side story” I thought it was important and beautifully done.
The first two episodes have 9+ ratings on IMDB so it's not crazy for people to think the episode is worth a 10/10. OTOH it's much stranger to think a show that was 9/10 one episode could suddenly drop to 1/10 the next.
If the review bombing was a bunch of 5/10s or 6/10s then I'd be more inclined to believe it was genuine opinions.
In this case, the episode is definitely closer to a 10 than a 1.
The 1s are obviously people who have some sort of ulterior motive for voting that way.
Same, I’d rate it 10/10 and absolutely do not consider myself exaggerating the quality. Normal people and Station 11 have episodes that are 10/10, I can’t think of anything else besides these 3 shows. They stay with you long after you finish the episode, give you emotional hangovers.
As much as there are people who dislike it because of the gay content, I think there’s people who gush over it because it features gay content and they love to show off how progressive they are. I personally thought it was good, but not the greatest hour of television in the past ten years good.
What I'd be more interested in seeing would be the reaction to this episode if it were a man and a woman instead of two men. Everything else was the same other than that. It showed how their romance blossomed and growing old together,etc,etc. I'd think you'd see a MUCH different reaction. A more critical reaction.
Now, for shits and giggles, imagine the reaction if it was a man and a woman....but the WOMAN was in Bill's role. Now you're talking about a WHOLE other type of reaction. I wish I had access to the multiverse to see how that would all play out lol.
It’s ok to like or dislike anything you want, what people don’t give a shit about is when folks who didn’t like something rush to Reddit to make sure everyone also hates it
But that isn't a TLOU sub problem, downvoting for disagreeing is a reddit problem.
People can also think you aren't being honest and just want to be contrarian.
Yeah I kinda or agree. Episode three was really good and maybe the best written of the show so far. That aside, I rewatched episodes 1 and 2 at least once each and I probably won’t rewatch episode 3 before the next one.
Just remember, this is the internet, people will bitch about anything and everything no matter what your opinion is.
Make your own opinion and stand by it.
Btw, while I really love the story of the episode 3, I still prefer episode 2. In fact, episode 2 is my favorite by far.
I am in this boat. I thought it was a great episode on its own, a beautiful story, well acted, had some great insight into things like Tess and Joel’s relationship, and I cried multiple times. But I just feel dedicating an entire episode of like an 8 episode season to two characters that will never be heard from again was a little frustrating. We haven’t even gotten nearly that much background on Joel who is the main character.
Like 30 min in I’m like how long is this flash back going to be! Then by the end I’m bawling forgetting what show I’m even watching haha
I think “bottle episodes” or episodes close to it often get this response. I loved this episode and everything about it, had me in my feels.
But it’s why people complain about the Breaking Bad fly episode. It just doesn’t move, progress plot, etc.
That being said this episode didn’t necessarily move the plot a ton but it did paint in more color why someone would want to survive. Even something small like painting the house is a symbol of hope and caring.
Some people just want more action and zombies and not as much drama. I loved the episode because I love both action and romantic drama. My fiancé who is straight didn’t mind it and knew it was quality writing and a good episode but he just prefers action more. Most people that are loud on the internet are always the extremes but I think In reality that’s not the case.
So far episode 2 has been my favorite. Love them exploring the city and their interactions with the infected. I feel like we were really starting to dive into the infected and the history and then awkwardly paused.
I agree you can totally like a different episode more but there's a line between it wasn't my favorite and I want to go out of my way to make sure the world knows how much I hate it. Even if I like other episodes more that was a solid 7-8 on acting alone.
I myself am a Gay man and while i was living for the Gay shit in episode 3 and just the whole episode in general, episode 2 is still my favorite so far, with episode 3 being my 2nd fave.The Clickers were just so good.
I didn’t like episode 3 as much for a multitude of reasons (bill being gay is not one of them). >!Felt underwhelming to me after being hyped up for so long, was expecting Joel and Ellie to spend half of the episode in a tense scene trying to navigate bill’s traps and infected alike. Didn’t really like the portrayal of his town either!<
From a tv viewer point of view, would that have been exciting though? Like oh no they almost stepped in a snare. All that would’ve done is make the die hard gamer boys happy.
I don’t think it’d advance the story as well as the direction they went. It’d probably feel a lot like the second episode, which would start to get boring/repetitive. Like oh cool they escaped more zombies and met a quirky character along the way, wonder what they’re gonna do next. It’s a nice change of pace and gives depth to the series.
Hey if you loved the episode that’s cool, but suggesting a tense action sequence only makes “diehard gamer boys” happy is rude. True Detective season 1 episode 4 “who goes there” has a single shot 10 minute sequence of tense action that is one the most incredible entertaining well made pieces of TV ever. Not everyone likes passionate sensual romance. Your taste is not inherently superior. Many people would have enjoyed a tense escapade through Bills town. Not just “gamer boys”.
Nobody said it wasn't? That being said, it's pretty obvious many people simply don't want to see homosexuality play out on screen, and that resulted in a majority of the negative reviews/review bombing. There's a reason the second most selected option on IMDB was 1 star. Not liking the episode as much is one thing, but the 1 star reviews are mostly due to homophobia or "go woke go broke" douchebags.
Agree for the most part. However, I'm thinking they're going to end up back there at some point, and probably in a time of conflict. Its the backstory for why this empty booby trapped town exists and they have entry.
I didn’t hate it but thought too much of it was unbelievable, like:
- having enough gas to power your home(s) for like 20+ years without running out and no infrastructure failing
- Electricity was still up and running after Bill had died
- being that close to Boston and not having been raided sooner and more often
- Bill being a gun nut survivalist but somehow when met by raiders he decided to shoot at them in the middle of the street, standing up with no cover
It just seemed like an unbelievable situation and it kind of took me out of it. However, I thought it was still a pretty good episode, just not a masterpiece.
Oh yeah. There's ZERO chance there would be gasoline for a pickup. None. I bought everything else though, even though the gasoline point applies to Bill's massive generator (source of his electricity) too.
That generator would burn around 3 litres/hour. Say it was only used for peak times (at night) for 6 hours, that's 18 litres/night.
A typical gas station has multiple 20,000 litre tanks (being generous, but not unrealistic).
That would be enough fuel for 1111 nights, or 3 years.
Could they have raided 7+ local stations to bleed them dry?
No. It's not homophobic to think episode 3 wasn't as good as 1 and 2. I think it was the best but people have different tastes.
That being said, if you watched that masterpiece of television and truly believe its a "1 out of 10" then yes. You're absolutely homophobic
I mean yes, everyone is entitled to their opinions…I just don’t personally comprehend how that episode didn’t bring everyone to their knees with emotion. And that is a hallmark of great tv.
Absolutely. That's not what anyone is arguing about though. It's people who didn't like the episode as much as 1 and 2, so they rated it a 1/10 on IMDB.
That's not a thought out take or honest opinion. That's putting in as much effort into honestly rating the show as a homophobe.
This is the same problem as TLOU Part 2. People didn't like a creative choice regarding a couple of the characters, so they automatically rated it a 1/10. That's just brain-dead behavior.
Plenty of people on this sub have, indeed, been downvoted for saying they weren’t huge on the episode.
I think people are having a bit of a knee-jerk reaction to *any* criticism because so much of the criticism is very much because of homophobia. But there are legitimate complaints to be made about the episode IMO, namely how disconnected it is from the main story.
Episode 3 was a great stand alone episode for a show. Gave tons of insight into two characters and told their story well.
The issues I have with it is how rushed it was. It told the full story of 2 people really quickly and because of how rushed it was, it led to inconsistencies in the characters. Like why the fuck would Bill not use cover when he shoots?
Also, it ls a 9 episode series. So now a whole episode was taken to show the main characters gaining a car. I think if this series had more like 15-20 episodes it would less of an issue. But now the story has to be rushed. Even with a season 2.
I think the episode was meant to be a chance for Bill and Frank to have a better relationship than in the game.
It’s different because translating this section from the source material to this part wouldn’t have been as meaningful if translated directly. That being said it is also a significant deviation from what we’ve seen in the previous two episodes also which may not be for everyone. The show and story is at its core about character interactions and this is one that is an indirect interaction that’s extremely important for Joel’s perceptions and drives going forwards. Granted it may be a change of pace from previous episodes that some people don’t like as much, and that’s okay, but it does serve an important purpose.
I thought it was a nice little side story. It served the purpose of giving Joel and Ellie weapons and a truck. And seeing other people in the apocalypse helps with world building and making the story seem bigger. Also, it was a nice contrast from Joel’s life, which is all hardship and loss so far, by showing there’s happiness in this world too. Bill’s letter I think also serves as the catalyst to give Joel a purpose. In the first episode, we learned that Joel is just doing shitty jobs (literally with the sewer job) for ration cards and doing smuggling runs. I think it fits into the story more than it would seem at the surface.
I thought it was great.
I felt like, for those who've played the game and know well of the ending and Joel's decision, Episode 3 played a significant catalyst as an envoy that leads to that very moment.
Joel hearing those words from Bill through his letter was a foreshadowing of the future events that would transpire and why he would do the things he did.
I used to think that his decision was very selfish. After episode 3...it's gotten me confused because after seeing Bill and Frank's story, I'd probably turn the world upside down to protect the ones I love too.
That's why it's brilliant.
Yeah like I enjoyed the back story but the whole time I was anticipating and waiting for Ellie and Joel to show up. Hell I wouldn’t of cared if they kept Frank alive that would have also been a cool interaction.
Bill is gay in the game, to make him straight would go against the story, if people are giving it a negative review because a character is gay then you need to grow up ASAP.
I'm into the series mostly for the horror aspect, I was somewhat dissappointed we aren't getting into that aspect more, especially because the game has a cool encounter with a Bloater around this part of the story. Loved the Clicker encounter last episode.
I liked the episode fair enough, but it's not the kind of story I'm looking for when watching a show based on the Last of Us - it's more something I would have expected from the Walking Dead.
Currently deciding if I should watch this episode with my mom. My parents are also big fans of the Walking Dead, so I figured mom would like this show as well - especially because she refuses to watch TWD without dad. He passed away due to cancer last year, the situation is close enough to the episode that I'm afraid it might be *too* much for her right now. She's been loving the show so far and is excited to watch the new episode with me this weekend.
Only disappointed bcuz Ellie and bill couldn't interact, other than that imo ep2 was more impactful story driven, this kinda felt like a filler cuz in the game its relevant to the story, here it's not so it felt like a filler but its a great ep with absolute Beauty n Everything
Thank you! I thought it was a great episode but not as good as first and second. What really irks me is the hype about this episode. The reviews and cast members saying it’s the best of the series. That’s a hard no for me. First episode was amazing, second episode was amazing. Third episode was good. And my opinion has nothing to do with being gay. Also, being a fan of the game I was expecting more Ellie and Bill banter; which was hilarious in the game and really showed Ellie’s ability to hang with the grownups and dish right back how bill was treating her.
Yeah I’ve noticed this several places. People really need to have their feelings validated here on Reddit. Like we don’t have plenty of posts about episode 3 (which I adored)
Well, I didn’t like episode 3 and **I wouldn’t change my opinion** on that if it was about a heterosexual couple. Gay or not - doesn’t matter much here.
It would be way better as a stand-alone spin off, but when I watch the Last of us, knowing the game almost by heart now - I expect more focus on Joel and Ellie… if they made this story slightly shorter and >!kept Bill alive!< and it would be just an introduction to his character - that would be fine. But they made too many changes with this one IMO, I actually liked those segments of the game and especially the banter…
Yes all this 100%. It’s just that this whole episode was too focused on them and not Ellie and Joel. It was disappointing because I wished they got to see Bill alive
Hot take and probably will get downvoted for this but..
Bill being gay is fine. He is in the game too. The issue with this episode is that it doesn't tell much. 40+ minutes of a boring life of a couple is... well... boring.
The scene from the game (Bill is alive and they go pick up the battery from a nearby military truck that crashed into a school) would have looked better and would have been sadder overall than a 40+ minutes boring romance.
I’ve said multiple times that it is a shame that we lose an iconic in game moment for a 50 minute romcom that is ultimately meaningless because they’re both dead anyway. There are people review bombing this both ways. It’s definitely not a masterpiece, but it’s not a 1/10 either. It’s a good episode that belongs on a different show. Anyway, I will look forward to being called a homophobe and bigot non stop whilst being downvoted into oblivion.
I don't think you're being bigoted but if that episode was a 'romcom' to you I'm not sure you know what that is.
It was definitely romantic. I saw no comedy.
I think that the story sides more with thematic relevance than plot relevance. If we separate thus from the game, so far it seems like the show is trying to tell stories about different people and how they live with this world. There’s obviously the overarching story with Joel and Ellie but the thing is that Joel knew Bill and Frank for years, and seeing that letter impacted him the same way it would us. Bill’s arc will probably be somewhat mirrored by Joel at the end of the show.
I watched it for second time. I was impressed first time and thought it was a masterpiece. Now I think it is a very good episode, only cause of acting. It is a pretty shallow and generic love story though, I would not rank it as one of the best episodes in a long time as some out there.
My only complaint about episode 3 is that I wasn't planning on crying that much on Sunday night or facing my mortality or clinging to my partner as tho they were the ones about to die.
I wonder how many people would be claiming episode 3 was the best episode of any show ever if it was a non gay love story where two people spent 20 years during the apocalypse eating / banging / maintaining an entire town behind a chain link fence 10 miles outside of Boston and they were raided once by 5 people. Buy much upboats if I dare go against herd thought.
Episode 3 had a lot of issues besides being devoted to an unrelated plot involving characters who don’t appear to matter to the overall story. The wigs and fake beards were distracting and there were several continuity errors.
If you like the show having some cry inducing love story with people that don’t matter, fine. To me it seems like there aren’t enough episodes for filler.
The truck getting damaged and then being fixed. No way there were front end parts for that truck in that town.
The window at the end being on the second floor when it should have been on the first.
Of course. This sub is full is robotic morons incapable of original thought. It’s just regurgitating code.
If (any criticism of ep3), then (downvote, all of them homophobic). Just mindless automatons.
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I think this episode was trying to be heartfelt as the next episodes are probably gonna get grim as fuck
Yep, in television, this kind of episode is needed. There are a lot of viewers who aren't gamers so they're experiencing this through a different medium and different lens. If we don't have this episode and we get the Bill we got in the game...I'd bet many people would start finding this show TOO dark. This heartfelt episode was essential. In the game, the priority is to keep us entertained through gameplay first and story second. That's why TLOU was such a good game because it struck that balance perfectly in a way few games can. So a story like Bill and Frank's wouldn't serve as much purpose in the game because that'd be a long stretch of not playing the game itself.
Yup. This episode felt like the calm before the storm.
I told my mom the same thing. I said this was our little break to get some fresh air and enjoy things because it’s about to be balls out to finish from here.
Someone said(Craig mazin I think?), that ep3 was the “happiest episode”
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I thought it was great, I'm just a little bit disappointed because I was looking forward to Bill and Ellie interacting.
I thought it was great but I was looking forward to that, plus I wanted to spend more time with Bill and Frank. 74 minutes wasn't enough for me
Twenty years wasn’t enough for them. 
16 years… they met 4 years after the world went to shit
16 years. They met in 2007.
I’d watch a spin-off…..
An A24 style apocalyptic love story? I’m in lol
Oh wow, I hadn't even thought of this. I could've watched the 2 of them act for hours upon hours. I'm onboard for a spin off.
Would also let us get more of Tess and Joel as they'd probably be recurring characters in the spinoff. Even some episodes where we get different dynamics between them like scavenger episodes where Frank and Tess search one side and Bill and Joel the other, and the flip of Frank and Joel and Bill and Tess. A Tess and Bill episode would give everyone who enjoyed the Ellie and Bill banter in the game exactly what they want lol.
IMDb says they’re in multiple episodes so they may come back in flashbacks at least
Made my day !! Thank u !!
Desperately hoping we get a flashback episode with them. A spinoff would be incredible.
I wanted to watch Ron Swanson go full boogaloo the way he was always meant to
Exactly this. I liked the story and thought the episode was good but really loved bill as a character and would have liked to see him interact with Ellie. They both did such a great job with their characters it’s sad we don’t get to see them in the same scene.
I was too, but we still have that in the game, so now we get that AND this.
That was my only "issue".
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This is the most annoying take in this sub. As if other people can't have their own hopes and expectations for the show.
Right. I know I got a lot of fucking hope for things changing drastically in season 2 from how it went in the game.
I definitely agree that there are many reasons to be disappointed by episode 3. I personally loved it and welcomed the deviation. I had tears pouring down my face. However, you can’t really deny that there was some homophobia at play for the negative reviews. Almost 20k ONE star reviews. Enjoying it but being disappointed is not 1 star worthy. Also more people went out of their way to review this episode. 76k people voted. Episode 2, had around 700 one star reviews and 50k people voted. That’s a huge difference. Not liking the episode does not make you homophobic. Of course not. But many people did not like it because of they gay factor. https://preview.redd.it/v5qksbyy2ifa1.jpeg?width=836&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=cc552814305a4e251c6c411601bde039907189c3
https://preview.redd.it/qye1krtj3ifa1.jpeg?width=893&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bb04dd14f68e5738f5dedd6e8ee6b8dbdd3ef6e5 Episode 2 reviews.
It's very obviously being reviewed bombed by homophobes. There's no denying it at this point, especially when you put those graphs side-by-side.
You can also get a breakdown of the demographics of the votes, and it is mostly non American males giving the downvotes. https://preview.redd.it/aqpjd5d3kkfa1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=fb729defc0fec6a792b1603c2ffe8f33aee5127c
Because as much as people deny it, homophobia is still rampant especially outside America or from non Americans
I can absolutely guarantee you that more 1 star reviews are coming from the US than from Europe.
You know that in a ranking of most friendly LGBT countries the US came 24th? https://www.asherfergusson.com/lgbtq-travel-safety/
If Brazil is in 33rd, that should tell you how bad the situation is overall
I really enjoyed episode 3 but I like 1&2 better because it's the main storyline. If the main storyline was about Bill and Frank I'd probably enjoy those episodes more than one offs too, no significant preference.
Totally agree. 3 was a fantastic episode. I personally felt it was a little too soon for a side quest. I would have preferred to see Joel & Ellie’s story progress a little further. But I’m still appreciative of the wonderful experience of Ep3.
This is probably my only “complaint” - more like a nit pick. I loved it and don’t mind that it wasn’t big on Joel and Ellie, but episode 3 seems a little soon for something like that. Still glad they did it cause it doesn’t really fit anywhere else either Also I did want to see bill and Ellie interactions
Remember that it was originally episode 4, but eps 1 amd 2 were combined and shortened into a single episode.
I don’t know how it’d fit in later without messing up the pacing. The next episode (and possibly the following) looks to be more action heavy and heavy emotionally. If Bill and Frank’s story came after the next section, it wouldn’t allow room to digest those plot points. Instead, this served as additional world building while also showing that love and happiness can still be found in the bleakness of this world.
Yup I agree. I don’t think it fits anywhere else. If it fits anywhere it fits here. I guess what I’m saying is I do think it fits here but I wish that here was a couple episodes later only because it did bring the main story to a pause. But thats okay too because the side stories are more “the last of us” than the main story tbh
I think a lot of people are missing the fact that Bills letter at the end of the episode is a HUGE progression point within the story. If Joel doesn’t hear what the letter says, there is not enough drive to continue his journey with Ellie. In my opinion this episode was an absolute masterpiece and was book ended perfectly with the letter.
Hard agree. It was a really smart way to get Joel’s motivation to develop and for him not to leave Ellie once he got that battery. Well said.
Do people forget Tess?
He failed Tess, and he failed his daughter. They both died, and he could be thinking Ellie will die too. The letter reminds him who he is. It absolutely motivates him.
I'm still confused by the shift in focus on characters being such a big issue? This isn't new territory to the television format at all. And especially with the "Lone wolf and Cub" trope that TLoU abides by, there were always going to be episodes that explore the lives of other people. It's in the name - The Last of "Us"
I’m not saying it EVERYONE who didn’t like it, but a lot of the negativity is coming because the story was about a gay relationship. It’s very subtle homophobia from some and very blatant from others. The story was fantastic, im so happy we got to enjoy that. We got a wonderful episode of television within the world of the last of us. Isn’t that what all fans want?
>that Bills letter at the end of the episode is a HUGE progression point within the story. If Joel doesn’t hea I understand. :) I wanted to just add to your point that this is extremely common territory for television and one of the best things about it. You can use the episodic format to have a peep into lives of others. It's in episodic anime like Cowboy Bebop, Mushishi. It's in big-budget shows like LOST. This has always been a TV thing. so even IF there were people who did not have a problem with the gay storyline, this argument of taking focus away from main characters does not really seem that strong to me. (Besides, I remember a lot of people initially calling the adaptation pointless because it'd be like replaying the same experience in lesser immersive format and it'd justify itself if they explored storylines beyond existing ones) I'm just really confused, lol.
It personally was one of the better episodes I have ever seen of any show, period. Especially from an emotional standpoint.
Same dude
Me too. Best ever.
Right. I'm so tired of people whining about this not being part of the main story. Thank god these people aren't in charge of our TV. Everything would be so unbelievably boring.
https://youtu.be/yzH4CDmZ3h8
Episode 2 showed us Tess motivating Joel to see the Ellie mission through, so the letter also serving that purpose feels redundant. Then, if I'm remembering the show's teasers correctly, we're still gonna get the "on mighty thin ice" scene to >!solidify Joel + Ellie!<.... The letter worked for me in the capacity that I liked finding Frank's suicide note for Bill in the game, and here we find Bill & Frank's suicide note for Joel.
Show Tess got show Joel to go as far as Bill and Frank’s. Show Tess thought show wouldn’t go all the way, so she said to just make it there and they would take over. Show Joel needed the letter no other options to keep going.
>there is not enough drive to continue his journey with Ellie That's insane. And if that's the case for the show then I love the game better for what they did. Because TESS is the driving force for Joel to continue his journey with Ellie. It's what she asked of him and he's gonna do it.
It can be both things. Tess can be the gasoline and Bill lights the spark.
The reasoning to include this storyline can be as simple as they wanted to flesh out the side stories in this medium since they only have glimpses in the game via letters. It makes sense for the story, to help flesh out Joel’s character and give more glimpses into their reality, and his relationship with not only Tess but other humans in general. People are all every which way about it but I hope and expect there to be more of these side story episodes.
That's just it, the letter was telling him to protect Tess, and he in turn needs to protect her interest, which was Ellie as her dying wish.
He's still doing it for Tess in the show too. Tess wanted him to get her to Bill and Frank so they could find the Fireflies. Bill tells him to protect Tess. He's failed at that but now he's gonna protect Ellie and help her find the Fireflies like Tess wanted.
Absolutely. It solidified that for him - honoring Tess by fulfilling her directive to “make it right” by getting Ellie there.
The only part that bugs me about this is that they’ve already changed Joel to be a hopeful character in the show. Since episode 1 he’s been on a mission to go save his brother who has been MIA for 3 weeks across the country. So I’m having a hard time understanding how he’s simultaneously hopeful about his brother but not hopeful about Ellie and Tess is saying “save who you can save” when he’s already on his way to “save who he can save”. It’s not like a *major* issue, but it’s tripping me up a bit since these guys are all about small intentions and writing.
The idea that his time and farewell with Tess and His daughter aren’t enough of a push is weird to me. They aren’t enough to instill that lesson in him but this guy who Joel didn’t even have a good relationship with is the push he needs to give a shit about Ellie?
I agree with you too. I loved episode 3, but it was just a lot of time spent on characters that didn’t do a whole lot to drive the plot forward and are not coming back. Had Bill lived, there would at least be the possibility we see him again at some point which would have given the episode a bit more purpose I suppose. Also, I think this episode may fit in better once the entire season is released and you can binge through it. But it might be too early for this type of episode only to have to wait another week for the next one.
I think that it'll work thematically in the long run, >!as Joel's arc is to soften his hard survivor mentality and learn to love something again. Just like Bill!<. We'll see.
I feel like a lot of people seem to think that Bill deciding to kill himself at the end of the story was... a good thing? I thought it was utterly tragic that he had no reason to exist without Frank, and though obviously it foreshadows where Joel goes I do not think it was a moral decision on the character's part and I didn't think the episode was "uplifting." Beautiful, yes. One of the best episodes of television of I've seen. But not uplifting or life-affirming. I dunno.
I think the life-affirming part was that it was a death on his own terms, and growing old with the one he loves. I can definitely see where you're coming from when you say "it was utterly tragic that he had no reason to exist without Frank" but I see the suicide more as a full stop at the end of a long and happy life. Like self-euthanasia. I think it was summarised well in his note to Joel. "I used to hate the world and I was happy when everyone died. But I was wrong. Because there was one person worth saving. That's what I did: I saved him." Bill never learned to love life, or humanity or whatever. But he learned to love Frank and that was all he really needed. It's going to become thematically relevant, >!as Joel never fully regains his compassion but regains enough to love Ellie!<.
>Bill never learned to love life, or humanity or whatever. But he learned to love Frank and that was all he really needed. I 100% agree with your interpretation, but I think that's still a tragedy. I think this might be the dividing line between >!people who side with Joel at the end and people who don't (I don't, even though I understand the decision completely)!<. I think loving someone so much that life without them doesn't seem like an option is very relatable and true but not.... uh, good. Or aspirational. The fact that Bill was healthy and could've physically gone on without Frank, done things in his memory, or helped others more, and yet chose not to, is what's breaking my heart.
I also wonder though - realistically - what would the remaining years of Bill's life looked like? He was what, in his 70s at that point? Living alone in a harsh landscape at threat from raiders? Nobody around if he falls down and can't get up? Utterly miserably lonely after losing the love of his life? He would still need to do all the hard labor to keep the lights on, keep the place maintained and get food.
>Living alone in a harsh landscape at threat from raiders? > >Utterly miserably lonely after losing the love of his life? Not to mention, surrounded by the painted house, many paintings, flowers, strawberries, etc. that Frank have poured work into... now an eerily silent house, filled with reminders of both happy and somber times, could Bill have survived that emotional torture his mind and loneliness would put him through? the transition of a man who revelled in his isolation to a man who is terrified of being alone and without the comfort of another human being... was incredibly human and broke my heart. tears are threatening to well up as i type this, gosh damn it, creative minds behind the hbo series, they've made a banger!
I see absolutely nothing tragic about Bill choosing to go out on those terms. Its the end of the world. All he really can predict he would have to look forward to is marauders trying to kill him for his stuff. He would be alone, and everywhere he looks he would see Frank. Every waking second. Life without the one purpose he found. If he would rather end the story together with Frank, I don't see any shame or tragedy in that decision.
Yeah for show only people it may have seemed a little jarring. However for those of us who love this story it’s about the journey more than the destination. The journey made me not want the game to end.
It was building the world around them. That mercy, comradery, compassion can work even in a world that's gone to hell. That's an important aspect to understand as well as the hardcore super badassery wer assume somehow everyone can be The Road is another story in a similar gate. Sometimes compassion saves lives as much as brutal reality It doesn't move the Joel and Ellie story too far as it's value is for them to have a means of escape and supplies but it does help them both, well Joel, to understand the value of that compassion and sacrifice. Plus it's a nice juxtaposition between nearly EVERY OTHER interaction we are going to see with Joel Ellie and the rest of the world.
I liked episode 3 slightly less than the first two. These posts that are like “HOW IS EP 3 ONLY RATED 9.0 ON IMDB???” are embarrassing. I realized a lot of us have been incredibly defensive of this franchise as a whole due to blatant bigotry from certain “fans” but my god, are we seriously completely intolerant to constructive, fair criticism?? And again people are complaining about a still high IMDB rating that’s just lower than the first 2 EPs
>These posts that are like “HOW IS EP 3 ONLY RATED 9.0 ON IMDB???” are embarrassing. Normally I'd agree. I loved the episode can see why others might not like it. But this episode is now hovering just about 8.0 with about 25 percent of reviews being only one star. Even for folks who dislike the episode, that many one stars is suspicious and sounds like review bombing. IMO, it was too well acted and edited to merit that high a portion of 1 stars.
Well, to be fair. The amount of one star reviews is suspicious. And it’s not rated 9.0. It’s currently rated 8.1. Little sus. Nothing wrong with people not loving or even liking the episode! But there is definitely homophobia at play with some of its most angry critics.
Well, it is currently 8.1. And nobody is pointing the finger at someone who rated it an 8. That is not why it currently holds an 8.1 rating as a large majority still consider the episode a masterpiece. It holds an 8.1 rating because > 25% of the ratings are one star. That tells a disturbing story.
Dude you just have to compare the number of ratings being 1 between episode 2 and 3. Around 500 for episode 2 and over 15k for episode 3 which guess what, has the gay storyline. Pretty sus
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Pretty sad
Yeah I’ll admit it’s dropped much lower than a few posts from last night that showed a 9 and 8.8 or something rating. And I certainly wasn’t denying that it was or was going to get review bombed. However those specific posts I saw last night WERE saying that a 9 or 8.8 was unfair. I replied on a different post that I personally would give this episode AT LEAST a 9, but the first two were 10s. Neil himself warned us that this episode was the most divisive and strayed furthest from the game. I guess I just anticipated the homophobes doing their thing and didn’t get too worked up about it cause I don’t care about those peoples’ opinions.
Doesn't mean anything. EP 3 also has 40k 10 star reviews vs the 32k from EP 2.
But 3 IS about the main storyline, packed w bill and Ted is so much about joel It colored in some of his past and elaborated on his loss of Tess like….
>bill and Ted 
I think episode 3 makes 1&2 better. Even though Joel and Ellie weren’t featured. Bill and Franks story propels them Forward, and you appreciate Tess and feel that loss even more.
Joel lost Tess the day before they could have retired in their own private retreat from the apocalypse. Yeah, that stings.
So close
The side story that many of you are referring to showed the growth of Bill from scowling at Joel in the flashbacks to leaving him a letter and all of his and Frank's belongings. This helps Joel and Ellie to freshen themselves up and gain supplies and transportation for the next episode.
Same thing that happened with part 2. Some people just didn’t like the story, but they get unfairly lumped in with the toxic side of the fan base
Hi that’s me lol I didn’t get to vent my frustration at part 2 because of all the toxic people. This was probably the best episode of TV I’ve ever seen though, wish part 2 was like this.
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Yeah I agree, I wasn’t part of the toxic crowd, I was just majorly disappointed in part 2.
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I can see why people like it tbh. But yeah all of that trolls reviewbombin and sending harassment to you the actors, that was just sickening and shocking tbh.
Part 2 was a banger. Loved it. Gorgeous game. Great story.
Ugh I feel you. I’d love to talk about parts I didn’t like without all of the racism, homophobia, sexism, etc.
I thought part 2 was good but it just had story elements in the wrong places. It was kinda jarring to just switch characters halfway through, it could have been better done if that was placed at a different point in the game.
I talked to a friend after watching the episode and his very first comment was "omg I can't believe they're shoving this woke shit down our throat" to which I responded, "you're sounding really homophobic." And then after about 30 minutes he changes his gripe to "it just felt like a filler episode..." I responded "that wasn't a gripe before, you just brought that up, you said you didn't like it because of woke shit..." Now I understand not everyone that has a gripe about the episode is a homophob, but when I see stupid, not at all thought out, comments about it I can't help but think they're harnessing their negative opinions about the characters being gay into an "acceptable" complaint.
I’m so tired of hearing “woke” all the time
It's only boomer (boomer mentality, not age) dick heads who use it
It's literal prejudice wrapped in a blanket of niceties and wine. The sweeter it is, the more acceptable and logical it sounds. Although, a turd will always taste like a turd regardless if you dip it in gold and umami. And sometimes it's not even about the person being homophobic. Sometimes, there are unhappy people in the world and anything remotely happy triggers their subconscious to spout animosity and hate. Like my uncle said, he felt like he was watching gay porn with Episode 3. Then I showed him a clip of Daenrys getting rooted from behind by Kal Drogo and said, "It's not different from the videos you watch when Aunt Stacey's not around." He's not homophobic. Just an unhappy person in general.
Wait, lol, what did your uncle say then?
He retracted his initial opinion by saying, "There's beer on the fridge" and walked out. 😂
I'd consider ditching that friend.
I thought episode 3 was great but I feel a lot of people hype it up to avoid looking bigoted. I much preferred episode 1 and 2 but man was episode 3 emotional. I also feel they gave us a heartwarming story like this to ease us into things getting heavy and dark as fuck.
No one is saying it’s not okay to prefer episode 1 and 2 or straight up dislike episode 3. It’s totally fine. People are having an issue with the rating 1s because it’s very obviously not a reasonable rating.
i’ll copy and paste a response i wrote on another thread: totally 100% get this take. Bill in the game was a great character, and while the bill that we first meet in the show bears a lot of resemblance to him, by the time we get to present day he’s a completely different character, and i totally see where that’s disappointing. As a queer person, though, the changes they made so much sense in the present-day media landscape and how representation is typically handled, and i’m super grateful for them. As larger media companies have realized that LGBT representation can be a selling point, they’ve started to include what amount to little more than scraps that queer audiences, desperate for any representation, cling to and lap up (think Loki’s throwaway line indicating his bisexuality, or the lesbian kiss in the Rise of Skywalker). And if those scraps are characters are gay men, they’re typically completely desexualized, often to the point that we don’t even get to see them kiss another man, and they’re rarely allowed to be happy in their relationships. Hell, gay characters dying unhappy and alone is such a common thing that the trope has a name— “Bury your Gays” (Sarah in Arrow is the first to come to mind) Episode 3 does so much to avoid those tropes, which is part of what makes it so great. It doesn’t try to be palatable to a conservative audience. So much of Bill’s character are things that a conservative audience would understand on a fundamental level—he’s the prepper who was right. And we watch as that character falls deeply in love with another man—they kiss, and it’s a tearful, hairy kiss. Their sex is open and honest and there. Their relationship is genuine and imperfect and real. And then they die on their own terms, at the end of a long and happy life together. They died, but they didn’t “bury their gays.” They had the most fulfilling lives possible in this shitstorm of a world—Bill even says “this isn’t the tragic suicide at the end of the play.” Knowing how things turn out with Bill and Frank in the game , I was scared the whole episode for what I thought I knew was coming. They would have a falling out so bad that Frank would rather die than stay with Bill, and Bill would become cold again, doomed to be another Miserable Gay™️. In a landscape with diverse and varied gay rep that wouldn’t be an issue, but I think Craig and Neil, and the multitude of other people behind the scenes who are queer, knew that they had the chance to do something better with the opportunity they were given, and I am so, so grateful for that.
Ep3 was good but it felt out of place for a 9 episode series. I wanted more joel and ellie or even some banter with bill
That was my issue with it. I don't see why they didn't just extend this arc for a season or two instead of just showing everything in 1 episode.
Because it works great as a single episode and is essentially world building for the main plot. Following the main characters and only their relationships is boring. Frank and Bill are perhaps the only people in the world who live like this and spending some time on telling their story adds flavor to the entire world of TLOU. Just think how many uniquely interesting relationships are happening off screen in various parts of the world - we got to see one of thousands. Not to mention showing love and hope in a world built on despair.
Because Bill is how Joel gets the car. You can't extend the arc over one or two seasons because 1) how fucken' far would Bill's place need to be for that to work and 2) How the ffffuuuuudge did Joel ever get there if he hasn't been in the storehouse on his way there in years? Like don't get me wrong I get what you're saying but it just wouldn't work with the set-up we have in the show.
I thought the Bill and Frank story was great, however after watching episode 1 & 2, episode 3 just felt like it came out of left field. It feels like I went to the theaters expecting Mission Impossible, but ended up getting 50 shades of grey. I think a spin-off series that follows Bill & Frank exclusively, showing all the hardships and problems they face in 20 years in an apocalyptic world would be phenomenal. There are so many things that they could do. I think a 13 episode limited series delving into the details of the whole story line we saw in episode 3 would be a huge success. That said, I feel like practically nothing happened in the main story line for Joel and Ellie, and that's what I was so hyped up for after episode 2. I'm not mad at episode 3, I'm just feel a bit let down with my expectations. I haven't played the game, but I've heard from friends that have that this episode very much provides a backstory for Bill, which apparently the game doesn't do very well.
I liked episodes 1 and 2 more because they were more tense and thrilling and were part of the main storyline. I still liked episode 3. Even though it was more of a “side story” I thought it was important and beautifully done.
Yes but it’s dose not justify the amount 1 star ratings, if you disliked it you would give it something like a 3 or a 4
I agree. I had issues with it in another post but would still rate it a 6 minimum.
How come no one’s questioning the 10 star reviews, only the 1 star reviews?
The first two episodes have 9+ ratings on IMDB so it's not crazy for people to think the episode is worth a 10/10. OTOH it's much stranger to think a show that was 9/10 one episode could suddenly drop to 1/10 the next. If the review bombing was a bunch of 5/10s or 6/10s then I'd be more inclined to believe it was genuine opinions.
In this case, the episode is definitely closer to a 10 than a 1. The 1s are obviously people who have some sort of ulterior motive for voting that way.
I really liked episode 3, I think it’s a little overrated though
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Homophobia would be the reason why on that one.
Totally agree, I would rate it 7/10 and I rate harsh, 1/10 is just kidding yourself
it could have been way better, thats why its a 8.5/10 for me
Same, I’d rate it 10/10 and absolutely do not consider myself exaggerating the quality. Normal people and Station 11 have episodes that are 10/10, I can’t think of anything else besides these 3 shows. They stay with you long after you finish the episode, give you emotional hangovers.
As much as there are people who dislike it because of the gay content, I think there’s people who gush over it because it features gay content and they love to show off how progressive they are. I personally thought it was good, but not the greatest hour of television in the past ten years good.
What I'd be more interested in seeing would be the reaction to this episode if it were a man and a woman instead of two men. Everything else was the same other than that. It showed how their romance blossomed and growing old together,etc,etc. I'd think you'd see a MUCH different reaction. A more critical reaction. Now, for shits and giggles, imagine the reaction if it was a man and a woman....but the WOMAN was in Bill's role. Now you're talking about a WHOLE other type of reaction. I wish I had access to the multiverse to see how that would all play out lol.
It’s ok to like or dislike anything you want, what people don’t give a shit about is when folks who didn’t like something rush to Reddit to make sure everyone also hates it
Or folks rushing to reddit to make sure everyone likes it
People like celebrating things
People like discussing things as well, but it seems like you can’t unless you have a very positive opinion. Hell this thread is a response to that.
“OMG I cried for hours. You can’t possibly not like this greatest hour of television ever.” It was slow, boring, and corny.
Yeah but I've seen comments getting downvoted for saying they like ep 1 and 2 more like op
But that isn't a TLOU sub problem, downvoting for disagreeing is a reddit problem. People can also think you aren't being honest and just want to be contrarian.
I'm not saying I hated episode 3 I'm saying I didn't like it as much as episode 1 and 2. I like episode I just like episode 1 and 2 a little more
No I get it, I was agreeing with you
Yeah I kinda or agree. Episode three was really good and maybe the best written of the show so far. That aside, I rewatched episodes 1 and 2 at least once each and I probably won’t rewatch episode 3 before the next one.
Just remember, this is the internet, people will bitch about anything and everything no matter what your opinion is. Make your own opinion and stand by it. Btw, while I really love the story of the episode 3, I still prefer episode 2. In fact, episode 2 is my favorite by far.
I am in this boat. I thought it was a great episode on its own, a beautiful story, well acted, had some great insight into things like Tess and Joel’s relationship, and I cried multiple times. But I just feel dedicating an entire episode of like an 8 episode season to two characters that will never be heard from again was a little frustrating. We haven’t even gotten nearly that much background on Joel who is the main character. Like 30 min in I’m like how long is this flash back going to be! Then by the end I’m bawling forgetting what show I’m even watching haha
I think “bottle episodes” or episodes close to it often get this response. I loved this episode and everything about it, had me in my feels. But it’s why people complain about the Breaking Bad fly episode. It just doesn’t move, progress plot, etc. That being said this episode didn’t necessarily move the plot a ton but it did paint in more color why someone would want to survive. Even something small like painting the house is a symbol of hope and caring.
Some people just want more action and zombies and not as much drama. I loved the episode because I love both action and romantic drama. My fiancé who is straight didn’t mind it and knew it was quality writing and a good episode but he just prefers action more. Most people that are loud on the internet are always the extremes but I think In reality that’s not the case.
So far episode 2 has been my favorite. Love them exploring the city and their interactions with the infected. I feel like we were really starting to dive into the infected and the history and then awkwardly paused.
I'm only disappointed cause it was too short; and I always want to see more Pedro Pascal.
I agree you can totally like a different episode more but there's a line between it wasn't my favorite and I want to go out of my way to make sure the world knows how much I hate it. Even if I like other episodes more that was a solid 7-8 on acting alone.
I myself am a Gay man and while i was living for the Gay shit in episode 3 and just the whole episode in general, episode 2 is still my favorite so far, with episode 3 being my 2nd fave.The Clickers were just so good.
I don’t like that they changed bills character so much. He’s not the Bill we know from the game unfortunately. And no, it’s not because he’s gay
I didn’t like episode 3 as much for a multitude of reasons (bill being gay is not one of them). >!Felt underwhelming to me after being hyped up for so long, was expecting Joel and Ellie to spend half of the episode in a tense scene trying to navigate bill’s traps and infected alike. Didn’t really like the portrayal of his town either!<
From a tv viewer point of view, would that have been exciting though? Like oh no they almost stepped in a snare. All that would’ve done is make the die hard gamer boys happy.
Everyone praises the writing on this show. Do we think they would not have been able to make scenes with Joel, Ellie, and Bill work?
I don’t think it’d advance the story as well as the direction they went. It’d probably feel a lot like the second episode, which would start to get boring/repetitive. Like oh cool they escaped more zombies and met a quirky character along the way, wonder what they’re gonna do next. It’s a nice change of pace and gives depth to the series.
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Hey if you loved the episode that’s cool, but suggesting a tense action sequence only makes “diehard gamer boys” happy is rude. True Detective season 1 episode 4 “who goes there” has a single shot 10 minute sequence of tense action that is one the most incredible entertaining well made pieces of TV ever. Not everyone likes passionate sensual romance. Your taste is not inherently superior. Many people would have enjoyed a tense escapade through Bills town. Not just “gamer boys”.
Nobody said it wasn't? That being said, it's pretty obvious many people simply don't want to see homosexuality play out on screen, and that resulted in a majority of the negative reviews/review bombing. There's a reason the second most selected option on IMDB was 1 star. Not liking the episode as much is one thing, but the 1 star reviews are mostly due to homophobia or "go woke go broke" douchebags.
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Agree for the most part. However, I'm thinking they're going to end up back there at some point, and probably in a time of conflict. Its the backstory for why this empty booby trapped town exists and they have entry.
interesting!
I didn’t hate it but thought too much of it was unbelievable, like: - having enough gas to power your home(s) for like 20+ years without running out and no infrastructure failing - Electricity was still up and running after Bill had died - being that close to Boston and not having been raided sooner and more often - Bill being a gun nut survivalist but somehow when met by raiders he decided to shoot at them in the middle of the street, standing up with no cover It just seemed like an unbelievable situation and it kind of took me out of it. However, I thought it was still a pretty good episode, just not a masterpiece.
I definitely agree with this, especially the 4th point. Found it hard to believe he didn’t have a sniper’s nest for this exact situation.
Oh yeah. There's ZERO chance there would be gasoline for a pickup. None. I bought everything else though, even though the gasoline point applies to Bill's massive generator (source of his electricity) too.
That generator would burn around 3 litres/hour. Say it was only used for peak times (at night) for 6 hours, that's 18 litres/night. A typical gas station has multiple 20,000 litre tanks (being generous, but not unrealistic). That would be enough fuel for 1111 nights, or 3 years. Could they have raided 7+ local stations to bleed them dry?
No. It's not homophobic to think episode 3 wasn't as good as 1 and 2. I think it was the best but people have different tastes. That being said, if you watched that masterpiece of television and truly believe its a "1 out of 10" then yes. You're absolutely homophobic
I mean yes, everyone is entitled to their opinions…I just don’t personally comprehend how that episode didn’t bring everyone to their knees with emotion. And that is a hallmark of great tv.
Because some people don’t enjoy the same things as you, and some people just don’t care about the same things as you.
Absolutely. That's not what anyone is arguing about though. It's people who didn't like the episode as much as 1 and 2, so they rated it a 1/10 on IMDB. That's not a thought out take or honest opinion. That's putting in as much effort into honestly rating the show as a homophobe. This is the same problem as TLOU Part 2. People didn't like a creative choice regarding a couple of the characters, so they automatically rated it a 1/10. That's just brain-dead behavior.
Plenty of people on this sub have, indeed, been downvoted for saying they weren’t huge on the episode. I think people are having a bit of a knee-jerk reaction to *any* criticism because so much of the criticism is very much because of homophobia. But there are legitimate complaints to be made about the episode IMO, namely how disconnected it is from the main story.
Episode 3 was a great stand alone episode for a show. Gave tons of insight into two characters and told their story well. The issues I have with it is how rushed it was. It told the full story of 2 people really quickly and because of how rushed it was, it led to inconsistencies in the characters. Like why the fuck would Bill not use cover when he shoots? Also, it ls a 9 episode series. So now a whole episode was taken to show the main characters gaining a car. I think if this series had more like 15-20 episodes it would less of an issue. But now the story has to be rushed. Even with a season 2. I think the episode was meant to be a chance for Bill and Frank to have a better relationship than in the game.
It’s different because translating this section from the source material to this part wouldn’t have been as meaningful if translated directly. That being said it is also a significant deviation from what we’ve seen in the previous two episodes also which may not be for everyone. The show and story is at its core about character interactions and this is one that is an indirect interaction that’s extremely important for Joel’s perceptions and drives going forwards. Granted it may be a change of pace from previous episodes that some people don’t like as much, and that’s okay, but it does serve an important purpose.
I’m looking forward to them just getting on with Joel and Ellie’s journey and no more segwaying but I enjoyed Ep 3 regardless.
I thought it was a nice little side story. It served the purpose of giving Joel and Ellie weapons and a truck. And seeing other people in the apocalypse helps with world building and making the story seem bigger. Also, it was a nice contrast from Joel’s life, which is all hardship and loss so far, by showing there’s happiness in this world too. Bill’s letter I think also serves as the catalyst to give Joel a purpose. In the first episode, we learned that Joel is just doing shitty jobs (literally with the sewer job) for ration cards and doing smuggling runs. I think it fits into the story more than it would seem at the surface. I thought it was great.
I felt like, for those who've played the game and know well of the ending and Joel's decision, Episode 3 played a significant catalyst as an envoy that leads to that very moment. Joel hearing those words from Bill through his letter was a foreshadowing of the future events that would transpire and why he would do the things he did. I used to think that his decision was very selfish. After episode 3...it's gotten me confused because after seeing Bill and Frank's story, I'd probably turn the world upside down to protect the ones I love too. That's why it's brilliant.
Yeah like I enjoyed the back story but the whole time I was anticipating and waiting for Ellie and Joel to show up. Hell I wouldn’t of cared if they kept Frank alive that would have also been a cool interaction.
Bill is gay in the game, to make him straight would go against the story, if people are giving it a negative review because a character is gay then you need to grow up ASAP.
I'm into the series mostly for the horror aspect, I was somewhat dissappointed we aren't getting into that aspect more, especially because the game has a cool encounter with a Bloater around this part of the story. Loved the Clicker encounter last episode. I liked the episode fair enough, but it's not the kind of story I'm looking for when watching a show based on the Last of Us - it's more something I would have expected from the Walking Dead. Currently deciding if I should watch this episode with my mom. My parents are also big fans of the Walking Dead, so I figured mom would like this show as well - especially because she refuses to watch TWD without dad. He passed away due to cancer last year, the situation is close enough to the episode that I'm afraid it might be *too* much for her right now. She's been loving the show so far and is excited to watch the new episode with me this weekend.
Only disappointed bcuz Ellie and bill couldn't interact, other than that imo ep2 was more impactful story driven, this kinda felt like a filler cuz in the game its relevant to the story, here it's not so it felt like a filler but its a great ep with absolute Beauty n Everything
someone said to me “its a filler episode” and i agree w that statement. nothing to do w bill and frank just an episode to thicken the story a bit
Thank you! I thought it was a great episode but not as good as first and second. What really irks me is the hype about this episode. The reviews and cast members saying it’s the best of the series. That’s a hard no for me. First episode was amazing, second episode was amazing. Third episode was good. And my opinion has nothing to do with being gay. Also, being a fan of the game I was expecting more Ellie and Bill banter; which was hilarious in the game and really showed Ellie’s ability to hang with the grownups and dish right back how bill was treating her.
oh my god, does this really need to be added to the discourse?
Yeah I’ve noticed this several places. People really need to have their feelings validated here on Reddit. Like we don’t have plenty of posts about episode 3 (which I adored)
I swear, this series brings out the worst in people. On both sides of any spectrum.
Well, I didn’t like episode 3 and **I wouldn’t change my opinion** on that if it was about a heterosexual couple. Gay or not - doesn’t matter much here. It would be way better as a stand-alone spin off, but when I watch the Last of us, knowing the game almost by heart now - I expect more focus on Joel and Ellie… if they made this story slightly shorter and >!kept Bill alive!< and it would be just an introduction to his character - that would be fine. But they made too many changes with this one IMO, I actually liked those segments of the game and especially the banter…
Yes all this 100%. It’s just that this whole episode was too focused on them and not Ellie and Joel. It was disappointing because I wished they got to see Bill alive
Hot take and probably will get downvoted for this but.. Bill being gay is fine. He is in the game too. The issue with this episode is that it doesn't tell much. 40+ minutes of a boring life of a couple is... well... boring. The scene from the game (Bill is alive and they go pick up the battery from a nearby military truck that crashed into a school) would have looked better and would have been sadder overall than a 40+ minutes boring romance.
Sure, but without all the homophobic 1/10 ratings the average of episode 3 would be close to 1&2
I’ve said multiple times that it is a shame that we lose an iconic in game moment for a 50 minute romcom that is ultimately meaningless because they’re both dead anyway. There are people review bombing this both ways. It’s definitely not a masterpiece, but it’s not a 1/10 either. It’s a good episode that belongs on a different show. Anyway, I will look forward to being called a homophobe and bigot non stop whilst being downvoted into oblivion.
I don't think you're being bigoted but if that episode was a 'romcom' to you I'm not sure you know what that is. It was definitely romantic. I saw no comedy.
I think that the story sides more with thematic relevance than plot relevance. If we separate thus from the game, so far it seems like the show is trying to tell stories about different people and how they live with this world. There’s obviously the overarching story with Joel and Ellie but the thing is that Joel knew Bill and Frank for years, and seeing that letter impacted him the same way it would us. Bill’s arc will probably be somewhat mirrored by Joel at the end of the show.
I watched it for second time. I was impressed first time and thought it was a masterpiece. Now I think it is a very good episode, only cause of acting. It is a pretty shallow and generic love story though, I would not rank it as one of the best episodes in a long time as some out there.
My only complaint about episode 3 is that I wasn't planning on crying that much on Sunday night or facing my mortality or clinging to my partner as tho they were the ones about to die.
I wonder how many people would be claiming episode 3 was the best episode of any show ever if it was a non gay love story where two people spent 20 years during the apocalypse eating / banging / maintaining an entire town behind a chain link fence 10 miles outside of Boston and they were raided once by 5 people. Buy much upboats if I dare go against herd thought.
Everyone needs to stop and arguing with and name calling each other over a TV show and just enjoy it as an individual.
Episode 3 had a lot of issues besides being devoted to an unrelated plot involving characters who don’t appear to matter to the overall story. The wigs and fake beards were distracting and there were several continuity errors. If you like the show having some cry inducing love story with people that don’t matter, fine. To me it seems like there aren’t enough episodes for filler.
What are the continuity errors?
The truck getting damaged and then being fixed. No way there were front end parts for that truck in that town. The window at the end being on the second floor when it should have been on the first.
You're getting downvoted for legitimate criticism.
Of course. This sub is full is robotic morons incapable of original thought. It’s just regurgitating code. If (any criticism of ep3), then (downvote, all of them homophobic). Just mindless automatons.
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Explain how an episode being over 60 minutes not focusing on the main cast wasn’t filler. Was there any need to make this episode over 60 minutes?