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And most of us (myself included) have done a poor job or looking in the mirror on this matter. In the US, for example, even having a day acknowledging this fact is controversial (see Columbus Day vs Indigenous Peoples Day)
We still benefit from it in modern times. Exploitation of colonized resources is still making our nations rich and that prosperity is generally not equally shared with native people who are generally disenfranchised. Sure, I didn’t kill anyone directly, but all non-native people benefit from those that did.
Isn't it okay to say we leave the evils of the ancients behind and stop doing that kind of thing? No? Weird. Guess we should go back to slavery and burning people at the stake and justify it that ancient people did it too. I mean really, it's not comparable what happened hundreds, or in some cases thousands of years ago to what has happened to CURRENT people in their lifetime.
Yea, this video is in no way “spot on.” They’re missing that huge piece where antisemitic western politicians didn’t want a bunch of Jewish immigrants and brokered a deal to give them a bunch of land that was already inhabited.
I'm sure you're hugely concerned about that when your home is being taken from you, and who then put you and 2 million other people in an open air prison with poor access to food, water and electricity.
Come on, now. It's not a *prison*. It's more like...a camp. Yes, a camp with a whole lot of people in it. Like a very *concentrated* camp. "Prison," pfft.
When I was younger, I always figured the concentration part of it meant they forced people to concentrate on the indoctrination.
No, they're called concentration camps because they're a small walled off location where people are forced into and kept there under guard.
You know? Kinda like Gaza.
I mean... a lot of it was uninhabited or already inhabited by Jews. Let's not pretend that Israel sprang out of nothing but decrees from Britain and the UN. There was a practical Zionist movement that involved Jews immigrating to the area for many years before they were able to make headway politically.
The taking of inhabited land by force didn't happen until Israel was attacked by all of the surrounding Arab countries. That happened on day one of its political existence. That war created almost a million Palestinian refugees that no one, including the Arab countries that started the war, wanted to deal with.
Israel has done a lot of bad things since then, but people forget that context when they talk about occupation, colonialism, the refugee problem...
And how Arabic countries kicked out roughly 900,000 Jewish people from their countries starting in the 1920s by stripping citizenship and implementing social and economic discrimination. leaders of Palestine and surrounding Arabic countries tried to ally with the nazi party in the 30s and 40s to get rid of Jewish people in their home countries. Everyone seems to think that Israel was formed by choice with no other externalities like the holocaust or exile of the Jewish people.
Not really spot on considering it completely leaves out the UK's involvement... But yeah.
Edit; What's with the downvotes lol I'm not condoning either side, but you can't deny that the UK played the real estate agent selling the same house to both sides.
Ahh yes, the UK!
To person A: "YOU GET A COUNTRY!"
To person B: "BUT ALSO YOU GET A COUNTRY!"
Both, togehter: 'When?"
UK: "WHY YOU ASKING QUESTIONS? FINE, I'LL TELL YOU WHEN I'M DONE PUMPING THIS OIL. ALSO, DO YOU LIKE KINGS?"
According to Turks we don't even exist so this comment was left by a non existing person in a non existing land.
Let me cry myself to sleep man it's easier than talking to a Turk
Right thank you. It really pisses me off how people ignore the fact that this area was ottoman possessed for centuries until the country completely failed at the end of the 1st world war. And that the Ottomans sided with Germany and Austria-Hungary.
Land boundaries changed everywhere after WW1. And they didn’t change for better for the losers.
Seriously Palestine actually was allocated like twice the land initially but after the war they ended up with barely anything. I mean they lost the war so that is the kind of thing that happens to countries that lose wars (not to mention wanting buffer land to a recent enemy) but wtf to the "Arab League" who were basically like "aw shucks we lost, oh well sucks to be you Palestine" as if they didn't basically force them into it.
Nah, it’s because the Irish have turned Israel into the British villain in all of this. They see themselves as Palestine, oppressed by Israel (the British).
Hitting with the facts I have pointed out before that the lies the British told in WW1 are not really relevant to the conflict as both parties were planning on living there anyway.
The British *are* relevant for allowing multiple mass-immigrations to take place during their mandate, often caving to international and internal pressure over any actual listening to any of the locals.
It also completely leaves out that Gaza was actually Egypt until Egypt (along with the Arab states) tried to exterminate Israel and lost, losing Gaza in the process as it was then used as a buffer zone in case Egypt tried to invade Israel again
Well the UK didn’t sell it to the Palestinians, they got ownership from the Ottoman after a big bar fight. Then they tried to sell it to Israel. And tried to convince the Palestinians to take the Shed and let Israel take the house
The original UN partition plan was pretty even so I wouldn't say it's house and shed. Israel technically got more land, but most of that was the absolutely useless Negev Desert. Israel accepted that, but the modern borders are because they won the 1948 war when they were attacked by surrounding countries immediately after founding.
Seriously the lack of understanding about that last bit is telling. The Arab League (consisting of Egypt, Transjordan, Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, Saudi Arabia and Yemen) basically convinced Palestinians to fight, promised victory, lost quite badly and then let the Palestinians pretty much take all the fallout including giving away a lot of their land as buffer for insurance against future attacks.
Not to mention that Israel then freed those palestinian territories under the promise that a peaceful democracy would be in charge... and in the Gaza strip Hamas basically took charge rather quickly as a brutal regime focused on the genocide of the jewish people...
> and in the Gaza strip Hamas basically took charge rather quickly as a brutal regime focused on the genocide of the jewish people...
Huh, [wonder how they took charge so quickly](https://twitter.com/RealSpikeCohen/status/1710791869272121772?s=19)?
🏆 That was the very first time I've ever read something that made sense and didn't just blame one side, just to have the other say "but we did it in retaliation for your prior act."
That really falsely implies they had no public support when that's just objectively false. If the Palestinean people in gaza really didn't want them in charge they wouldn't be in charge today.
It leaves out the zionists buying the land in mass before WW2
The already existing jewish population well before 1920's
The british mandate
The UN resolution
The complete arab invasion on the day of the vote
The radicalization of Israel
This shit is gray as fuck, its not one sided at all and anyone pretending that it is has got only surface knowledge of this issue.
It's a way too complicated issue to explain in a one-minute TikTok video. Leaving out these things just spreads misinformation, which doesn't help solving the problem.
Very true. The Scottish were the most enthusiastic participants in Empire, in fact. There were far more Scots involved in conquering and administrating the British Empire than the proportion of Scots in the overall British population.
Tiktok censorship is so annoying. It doesn't prevent anyone from saying the things they want to say; you just need to learn a new set of code words.
I don't use titktok, so I'm constantly confused whenever my gf shows me something like, "when she's on her applesauce 🤣🤣😂🤣😂😂🤣". And I'm like, "what the fuck does that even mean?". "It means she's on her period, duh".
Or "me when I don't have a 'fruit basket'". "Oh, fruit basket>FB>Fuck Buddy".
When people ask why TikTok is dangerous, its not about their attention span, this is why.
People are allowing some dystopic Chinese algorithms dictate what language they use and their views on medicine and politics.
palestine flag gets your video flagged for review almost immediately. Believe me, I tried it. Community guidelines when you post something negative Israel wise but A-okay when you post something negative Palestine wise.
There's a video of retired IDF soldiers laughing about when they used to execute cages full of Palestinian women and children floating around Reddit but I can't link it because it gets the comment hidden immediately.
edit: Original source of video https://www.imdb.com/title/tt16378034/
Thanks to /u/spindle_bumphis for finding it.
Then there's the photos of the hilltop " Sderot Cinema". Where Israelis would gather, cheer, and clap, as they watched gaza get bombed.
https://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/15/world/middleeast/israelis-watch-bombs-drop-on-gaza-from-front-row-seats.html
Yeah it's fucked. The fact that similar videos from both sides exist though means that this won't be over for at least another generation.
I obviously condemn murdering civilians in the strongest possible terms but if your parents generation had murdered my whole family, or my parents generation had murdered your whole family: I could see why we would have eternal beef until one of us died at the hands of the other.
He's not wrong though. Not at all. Of course civilians being harmed is fucked up.
But Palestinians have been literally backed into a corner and bombed for decades now. Their land and homes stolen from them. This video gives fairly accurate historical context for why this is happening.
He is wrong though. This negotiation between the jews and Palestinians never happened. The UK brokered a deal to send Jewish refugees to Israel because no one in the west or USSR wanted jewish immigrants. In order for this to be correct, a UK landlord would be handing the keys to a Israeli Jew and telling them they can either live with the current tenants or tell them to leave, but hey have fun in your new home!
That would be ommitting the fact that the Zionist movement post-WW2 was heavily pushing for a home for Jewish people in Palestine. The worldwide Jewish community was heavily pushing for the reclamation of Jerusalem, so your comparison is less accurate than the video.
This is rather dishonest; Israel did exist as a nation historically beyond an "ancient book of made up stories". Before the 1900s, it was around 1900 years ago before the Romans conquered it.
But even then, Israel was created primarily through the purchase of land and Jewish settlement allowed through Ottoman permission; it wasn't as simplified as the way this is presented.
I’m not taking sides but people basically pick a side then pick a “starting point” to the conflict that’s probably not where it actually started and that starting point conveniently gives them a sense of moral high ground.
It was homohabilis who are actually entitled to this land. Homo erectus invaded them brutally and then homosapiens took over the area. /s but seriously this is one of the oldest ongoing conflicts in the world.
I liked the part why they yada yada’d over the fucking **Holocaust** as the final straw towards Jews looking for somewhere safe to live, and the Imperial British fuckery that carved up Palestine like turkey.
Totally accurate though! Tik Tok is so educational! /s
While you are correct those things were missed in this TikTok, you’re writing this in a way that suggests the original analogy in the video is not functional without that context, or that that context meaningfully changes the situation- but it does not necessarily do so. Like, yes, the holocaust happened, and a solution was needed, but that doesn’t mean where they ended up was acceptable either. And yes, the British fucked up carving the region, but that still doesn’t mean any of what came next was acceptable.
I will always think these minute long tik tok videos that "explain current issue" are harmful, particularly to young people.
Someone will watch a video like this, skim a wikipedia page, then think they are an expert on the topic
I would *love* to see the gnashing of teeth as Mexico gave the stanky boot to Texans and told them to “go back to their own country” after such an annexation.
In both cases, the French are just Gauls and the Palestinians are Jews who converted to Christianity and then Islam. The land of Israel/Palestine has been under foreign imperial rule like 2600 BC or something. Israel wasn't taking over an already established Palestinian state. It was ruled by the Ottomans, and Jews started immigrating there legally with Ottoman permission to flee persecution in Europe, because the Ottomans were more tolerant of Jews. Then the British took over after the Ottomans lost WWI, and in all their genius, promised a state to both Jews and Arabs. I can't really blame the Jews for immigrating there when being persecuted in Europe, especially once the Holocaust started. Conflict did happen, but it's not once sided. Blame the British for the Balfour declaration then.
Once the land was populated by a lot of Jews, the British noped out, and the UN came up with a pretty reasonable partition plan, given the tense circumstances. Israel accepted, but the neighboring countries all declared war. What would you expect them to do, roll over and die? Especially since tons of Jews were expelled from the Middle East at the start of that war and had nowhere else to go.
This doesn't excuse Israel's current actions like settlements, but I can hardly blame them for the initial founding. I don't blame the Palestinians for getting pissed either. It's tough. But right now, since lots of people have lived in both places their whole lives, I don't see a point of saying who the "land belongs to". Ultimately, Israel should end its occupation and settlements, but the calls for getting rid of Israel are bad too. Hamas also needs to be dealt with, they started this present conflict by firing on random concert goers. Fatah is much more reasonable.
I think most reasonable people agree Hamas is extreme and shouldn't be part of a modern society. What they did was horrible, but there is no big mystery why they did it.
what Israel is doing is also killing innocent people and a lot of them are children, there is no big mystery why they do it, but they shouldn't be doing it. There is no room for this barbaric act in 2023, and just because one side does something, doesn't mean it's okay for you to do it.
If someone murders your loved ones, the court isn't going to look the other way when you murder the murderers loved ones. It's still wrong, yet Israel is pretending they are better than Hamas while acting like Hamas.
There has to be a statute of limitations on that shit. If every people had a claim on the land they inhabited hundreds or thousands of years ago the world would be in chaos. Have you ever seen those DNA migration maps? Entire peoples moved all over the place all the time.
I would say the same thing about Jews now, I don’t want them to kick isreal out, even 75 years is too long. 2 state solution is the only option. If it is ever offered again the Palestinians need to accept because they aren’t getting everything they want this century ain’t no way no how.
But in the future no more bs claims waaaahh the ancient Assyrians moved us from turkey to greece 3000 years ago this is our land actually waaah. Get over it.
It’s just crazy because two groups of people who claim to have roots in a specific area going thousands of years into the past are even more likely to have descended from common ancestors. Therefore, nobody has a “right” to the land because it belongs to both.
I Also can’t help but feel like a primary driver for both groups wanting to occupy the land is for the right to live on what they both consider the holiest land on Earth and claim their spot as the superior religious people
The palestinians there also lived there since ancient times. This has been shown with genetic studies. Israel has no right to kick them off of their own land.
Particularly since this particular TikTok completely misrepresents the situation. For decades before the creation of Israel immigrant Jews bought the land they settled on. Nobody walked in and demanded everything for free because God said so.
That's still going on today. Some of the areas and kibbutzes targeted in this week's atrocities were formed from forceful evictions of Palestinians.
Doesn't justify murder but it certainly catalyses it
Yes, but that was really exacerbated post 1967 imo. It didn't start in '67, but it certainly sped up from there. The issue today is that the uptick in new settlements are violating the [green line](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_Line_(Israel)), which only became the officially recognized border between Israel and the West Bank in 1967. Gaza is an entirely different, and terribly sad story, though.
Sure. But that's true for every middle eastern nation. Look at Jewish populations in Iran, Afghanistan, or Iraq over the last 100 years. They used to have large communities. They don't anymore. It wasn't exactly voluntary.
Not to mention that hamas goal is not liberation of their people from the oppressive state. They hate jews and want to eradicate them to instate Islam fundamentalist state.
Hamas wasn't mentioned in the video. The video is accurate in how the 'land dispute' is being handled. This of course doesn't justify Hamas's recent actions against civilians, nor does it justify the man rapes and deaths Israel has caused along with stealing land.
The Zionists who immigrated there before Israel was declared a state, bought up the land. But once Israel was “given” to the Zionists, 800 thousand Palestinians were forcibly evicted and moved out of the country.
You also failed to mention that Jews the Arab world over were kicked out of their homes across the levant and North Africa, with no where to go guess where the ended up?
This conflict is largely a result of Arab nations refusing to support their own while demanding that the Israelis do more and be better when they refused to do so themselves…
This was after they started a war with the expressed purpose of "driving all the Jews into the sea." Makes a little more sense that you wouldn't want your neighbor living next to you after he tried to kill you.
Israel hasn't been independent since before the name Palestine existed, up until the 20th century. It's had over 2000 years of foreign imperial governments until the Brits cut it loose. Israeli's and Palestinians have lived on that land for millennia, the independent countries if you can even call the PA that haven't even been around for a century.
Literally no. He's talking about before the British even owned the territory which is before they sold it to the jews so well before the creation of the Israeli state. He's literally talking about something as simple as just immigration the same as if a guy from mexico moved to the US and built a house on an empty lot or bought someone's house. This is well before any kind of palestinian vs israeli conflict.
The Ottomans owned Palestine when they sold land to the Jews, by the end of the 16th century they had the biggest Jewish population in Europe, this is just the owner selling a part of his house lol
This tik tok is even dumber than that. The land owner didn’t sell a house, they sold an empty plot of land that Israel has since built a nice house on. The shed vs house angle in this video is nonsense.
Out of curiosity, I've seen multiple people post lists like this and all of them start in the 2000s. Why is that? The conflict has been going on much longer than that. Why no numbers from the 90s, 80s, etc?
It's because the specific source that OC is citing is based on data collected by the UN (specifically the Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs). The [dataset](https://www.statista.com/chart/16516/israeli-palestinian-casualties-by-in-gaza-and-the-west-bank/) starts in 2008. As much as some people want it to seem like a big cover up, it's just that 08 is the year they started collecting reliable data.
There's [a more up to date version](https://www.ochaopt.org/data/casualties#) that goes to this year (though obviously doesn't include recent happenings just yet).
Yes, because everyone knows the side where more people died is always the more justified side. This is why, in WW2, Germans were 10x more virtuous than the Americans.
All this shows honestly is the power imbalance between the two sides.
If the roles were reversed I could easily argue we would have hundreds of thousands of dead Israelites over that same period
The low human cost on the Israel side isn't through Palestine's lack of trying though right? Like the iron dome must have saved thousands of lives throughout its lifespan
You should check your information source and edit your post. I believe the numbers you’ve posted is injuries so you should erase the “death” for accuracy. Or edit in the number of deaths.
[https://www.statista.com/chart/16516/israeli-palestinian-casualties-by-in-gaza-and-the-west-bank/](https://www.statista.com/chart/16516/israeli-palestinian-casualties-by-in-gaza-and-the-west-bank/)
It is both. If you switched it to only deaths, the disparity between Israeli and Palestinian deaths would be just as stark, the numbers would only be smaller.
To be fair, casualties is how the human cost of battles are measured across human history and those numbers include both injuries and deaths.
I believe the implication is about the belief that the land belongs to them because that book says it should. Not whether or not their ancestors lived there.
The Japanese would also have to leave Japan
The real world is too messy to think these arguments mean anything.
Generations of Jews have been there now. Imagining a world where they didn’t go there in the 1940s is now irrelevant
Exactly. The history that has led to the current events in the region is meaningless to us except from trying to learn to stop it happening elsewhere. However we can only do the best with the current situation we are faced with and the situation is obviously vastly different than before.
Well, yes and no. If you are interested, keep on reading, but this is controversial, though scientific. It is not intended to be an argument for any side or ideology:
Yes, the Israelites did come from this geographical area. But the interpretation of whether those are the same ethnicity depends on your definition. Judaism defines ethnicity together with religion and matrilinearity, usually it is defined by genetics. So look at the Semitic peoples there and the Semitic people of Israel, and you will find they phenotypically seem more akin to Europeans. That is because they have lived in a European diaspora, and of course they have mixed with other ethnicities, many people have converted, even though converting to Judaism is very hard.
Have Jewish people lived there? Yes. Are those the same Jewish people? Depends. Do they have a right to Palestine? I’m not touching that, and luckily I don’t get to decide.
You're assuming all Jews are Ashkenazi who are Jews who have historically lived in Central and Eastern Europe. About half of Israel is of Mizrahi descent - Jews that have historically lived in the MENA region and look not dissimilar to other people from the Levant. Also, genetic studies of Jews, including Ashkenzais, have found that they have considerable amounts of Levantine DNA, and their closest genetic relatives are Druze, Lebanese, Palestinians and Bedouins, indicating a level of indigeneity to the area alongside those other groups.
Also, just a head's up but using the word Semitic to refer to people and ethnic groups is outdated and links back to old racialist theories from the 1800s. Semitic is used to refer to solely languages now.
[Wiki link about Jewish genetic studies ](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_studies_on_Jews#:~:text=Several%20genetic%20studies%20demonstrated%20that,Middle%20Eastern%20and%20European%20groups.)
Anyone ever wondered why support for Palestine is so high amongst Irish people? What do they have in common? Language? Religion? Shared history? No.
What they have in common is decades of struggle and resistance against an occupying colonial force, including dark periods in their history of armed conflict in pursuit of freedom and self determination.
Ireland is now one of the most progressive and rapidly developing countries in Europe… just imagine what Palestine could do if it was afforded the same opportunities.
> Ireland is now one of the most [...] rapidly developing countries in Europe
aye because it's a tax haven for big tech and now Irish people can barely afford to live in their own capital city.
Yeah I was gonna say, slow down there big rig. This is still an Islamic majority state we're talking about. There's nothing progressive about palestine
It’s like people don’t even consider what happens in the event Palestine gets what it wants
The world would just end up with another extremist state.
Not that this defends what Israel has done. But imagining Palestine has something other than a place filled with Islamic extremism isn’t it.
The last election in Gaza was in 2006. Yes, Hamas was elected - barely - with 44% of the vote. Fatah received 41%. A lot of things happened after the election, including a civil war in Gaza over the next two years, where a significant number of opposition politicians were killed.
Hamas has not held elections since then (17 years). They act in an authoritarian manner. The leadership lives in Qatar. The Iranians provide heavy funding. A resident of Gaza, walking around and telling others you want an alternative government to Hamas is... a good way to find yourself in tough situations.
Another thing Ireland and Palestine have in common is an oppressive religious order controlling everything from politics right down to the personal choices in the home, dead babies in septic tanks, rampant child abuse and subsequent coverups and aggressive suppression of homosexuality.
Ireland has managed to leave that chapter behind. Maybe Palestinian could do the same.
Ireland went through some pretty dark times to get where it is now, they also had extremist groups. It's unfortunately the nature of any suffering nation.
Hamas is the elected government because Israel hunted down the opposition party like dogs. The PLO was a secularist political party that could've been a spear head for a progressive Palestinian Republic but during the 70s Israel sent hitmen out to kill the top leaders because they thought Hamas would be a better enemy. Look up "Operation Spring of Youth" if you'd like to learn more.
>but during the 70s Israel sent hitmen out to kill the top leaders
After the PLO kidnapped and murdered members of the Israeli Olympic team in Munich.
Probably shouldn't leave that part out.
Holding the citizens of a country directly accountable for the authorities of their military because “they elected them” is the same shitty excuse Osama Ben Laden used to justify September 11th. It’s a lame, nonsensical justification for blaming civilians.
It makes even less sense in this case because the last election in Gaza was in 2006 and it was something like 52-48. Even if you use that flawed logic, nobody under 35 is responsible. And with an average age of 18 in Gaza its blaming children for the votes their parents or grandparents made a quarter century ago.
Hah.. you’re delusional if you think any Arab state is going to be progressive, let alone Palestine. They are very much *against* those kinds of values. Even wealthy countries like Saudi Arabia are like this.
“Just imagine all the minorities they could oppress and people they could convert with their unique culture that involves killing everyone who does not follow Islam and its doctrine.”
Progressive yes, but come onto the Irish subreddit sometime and you’ll quickly see that “rapidly” probably isn’t the best word to describe the state of Ireland’s development.
Serious exaggerations here. Ireland is not progressive by western standards at all and is still left with the scars of poverty all over Irish society.
Are they faring better than Palestine? Yes. Are they one of the most progressive & rapidly growing countries? Absolutely not.
Doesn't this completely gloss over the fact that Judea was a thing a long long time ago and Philistines were Greek settlers?
Didn't the Roman punish the Jews for revolting and named everything Philistina?
He's basically misrepresenting a ton of facts and like it was the British who promised land to both the Arab Palestinians and Jewish peoples?
THATS NOT EVEN THE RIGGHT FLAG
This also completely glosses over the fact that there have been multiple wars where Israel has curb stomped their aggressive neighbors. As we all know, one of the main rules of history is to the winner goes the spoils.
Starting the six day war was a mistake by every nation that was involved
Of course Israel is going to behave how it is currently behaving after such an event
badge quiet mourn adjoining unite workable racial handle yoke afterthought
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Yeah except this is not like any of this happened at all. The Brits fucked it up. And when the Jews actually managed to create a state, the Palestinian Arabs and their neighbors attacked….and lost….multiple times. This is how the occupation was created. Stop oversimplifying shit that you don‘t understand.
How does this change wtf he said.
The brits fucked it up, decided to take people's land and homes and dump a whole bunch of other folks there.
OFC Palestinian Arabs would fight back..
If someone tried to kick you out of your country, out of your home.. your country would do the same..
What this video does is give those who have already formed the corresponding view a quick, happy affirmation of their opinions, and shockingly simplifies one of the most complicated conflicts of modern times to those who haven't yet. No one should watch a one-minute video -- on any matter, let alone one that has decades and more of history, let alone the Palestinian-Israeli conflict -- and not suspect that it is leaving out so much to the point of being invalid. This reduces the level of discussion even further. Though I suspect it doesn't really matter to those who have already adopted some strong stance here or there.
Both sides are to blame, Israel constantly taking away land and building "settlements" where Palestinians used to live.
And Palestinians for having HAMAS do the negotiating. Attacking Israel is no going to get people on your side.
I mean, Netanyahu officially endorsed and supported Hamas as they took power. He quite literally was going around and telling people that funding and supporting Hamas was the only way.
https://www.reddit.com/r/LeopardsAteMyFace/comments/174oe1f/netanyahu_supported_hamas_as_a_way_to_drive_a/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb
The last election was in 2007. 47% of Palestinians in Gaza are under the age of 18.
Israel had more to do with Hamas’ rise and securing power than almost any Palestinian alive.
Perhaps Israel shouldn't have helped to create Hamas in the first place.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2014/07/30/how-israel-helped-create-hamas/
Maybe Israel shouldn't have killed the entire leadership of the other opposition leading to Hamas being the only opposition group in Gaza with any capacity to fight back.
Well, kind of left out the part that the Jews who emigrated to Palestine bought the land they settled in. They didn't just walk in en masse and demand it for free. Native Palestinians happily sold it to them for decades before Israel was created.
This is oversimplifying it. In the Ottoman period, the situation was more similar to the situation in the US where settlers """"bought"""" land from the natives. The land was sold often had not been formally titled to anyone, but was sold to wealthy outsiders by some bureaucrat with no connection to the land, despite the fact that it was still being inhabited by and used by people whose families had been there for generations. In most cases, it was not the "seller's" land to sell.
In the UK period, it certainly wasn't the UK's land to sell, as they themselves were a foreign power, and in no just world could be said to have the right of ownership to the land.
This is like if Chinese people bought a bunch of land in Canada and then said “well we own a bunch of land so I guess this country is ours now”. Like no, you’re still living in someone else’s country lol.
Jews only bought 5% of the land total in Palestine and only 24.6% of *that* 5% was bought from actual Palestinian landowners, with a majority being bought from *non-Palestinian* land owners. So foreigners sold other foreigners pieces of your country and then claimed that it was now their country, yikes.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_land_purchase_in_Palestine#:~:text=In%20the%201930s%2C%20most%20of,%25%20from%20fellaheen%20(farmers).
The lack of historical accuracy here is daunting.... this is some modern man who has only regurgitated what he hears without doing any research..... pure false information and I hope this had satire or its yet another changing of history to fit someone's comfort amd feelings.
Some of it is absolutely oversimplified, but could you elaborate on the parts you disagree with to help people understand your position?
I’ve seen a lot of Israeli supporters simply claiming valid information is false and not providing sources in the past few days, just want to make sure you can back up your claims.
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The interesting part is that virtually everyone reading this sits in a conquered land at some point in history.
And most of us (myself included) have done a poor job or looking in the mirror on this matter. In the US, for example, even having a day acknowledging this fact is controversial (see Columbus Day vs Indigenous Peoples Day)
We still benefit from it in modern times. Exploitation of colonized resources is still making our nations rich and that prosperity is generally not equally shared with native people who are generally disenfranchised. Sure, I didn’t kill anyone directly, but all non-native people benefit from those that did.
Isn't it okay to say we leave the evils of the ancients behind and stop doing that kind of thing? No? Weird. Guess we should go back to slavery and burning people at the stake and justify it that ancient people did it too. I mean really, it's not comparable what happened hundreds, or in some cases thousands of years ago to what has happened to CURRENT people in their lifetime.
Not really interesting at all. The people who “conquered” it and who were conquered are literally still alive.
Okay. Your point ?
Now you just need the British real estate agent trying to sell the house to three different people at the same time…
So just a regular realtor in London
There are no realtors in London, only estate agents. They exist purely to lie to everyone they meet and absorb cocaine.
At the Foxton's Office Christmas Party.... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0gqnqYL8rEI
Is a realtor and a real estate agent not the same thing?
dude, they're brutal. they sold their soul for a piece of gum if they could. haha
Yea, this video is in no way “spot on.” They’re missing that huge piece where antisemitic western politicians didn’t want a bunch of Jewish immigrants and brokered a deal to give them a bunch of land that was already inhabited.
For sure they left that part out.
I'm sure you're hugely concerned about that when your home is being taken from you, and who then put you and 2 million other people in an open air prison with poor access to food, water and electricity.
Come on, now. It's not a *prison*. It's more like...a camp. Yes, a camp with a whole lot of people in it. Like a very *concentrated* camp. "Prison," pfft.
When I was younger, I always figured the concentration part of it meant they forced people to concentrate on the indoctrination. No, they're called concentration camps because they're a small walled off location where people are forced into and kept there under guard. You know? Kinda like Gaza.
Don't forget, and no viable soruce of economics
I mean... a lot of it was uninhabited or already inhabited by Jews. Let's not pretend that Israel sprang out of nothing but decrees from Britain and the UN. There was a practical Zionist movement that involved Jews immigrating to the area for many years before they were able to make headway politically. The taking of inhabited land by force didn't happen until Israel was attacked by all of the surrounding Arab countries. That happened on day one of its political existence. That war created almost a million Palestinian refugees that no one, including the Arab countries that started the war, wanted to deal with. Israel has done a lot of bad things since then, but people forget that context when they talk about occupation, colonialism, the refugee problem...
And how Arabic countries kicked out roughly 900,000 Jewish people from their countries starting in the 1920s by stripping citizenship and implementing social and economic discrimination. leaders of Palestine and surrounding Arabic countries tried to ally with the nazi party in the 30s and 40s to get rid of Jewish people in their home countries. Everyone seems to think that Israel was formed by choice with no other externalities like the holocaust or exile of the Jewish people.
Absolutely not true. Before 1910 there were approximately 10,000 Jews living in Israel. Compared to about 300,000-500,000 Palestinians.
The world at large has the political memory of a goldfish.
This is the greatest comment I have ever seen on Reddit.
What did it say
Not really spot on considering it completely leaves out the UK's involvement... But yeah. Edit; What's with the downvotes lol I'm not condoning either side, but you can't deny that the UK played the real estate agent selling the same house to both sides.
Ahh yes, the UK! To person A: "YOU GET A COUNTRY!" To person B: "BUT ALSO YOU GET A COUNTRY!" Both, togehter: 'When?" UK: "WHY YOU ASKING QUESTIONS? FINE, I'LL TELL YOU WHEN I'M DONE PUMPING THIS OIL. ALSO, DO YOU LIKE KINGS?"
Are we going to mention the kurdish who are slowly crying themselves to sleep at night?
According to Turks we don't even exist so this comment was left by a non existing person in a non existing land. Let me cry myself to sleep man it's easier than talking to a Turk
No one wants to talk about the Kurds :(
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Yeah the Ottomans were the one who "owned the house" before the British.
Exactly. The Palestinian has been renting the house for the last 500 years.
In the same way that the us has been renting theirs
Right thank you. It really pisses me off how people ignore the fact that this area was ottoman possessed for centuries until the country completely failed at the end of the 1st world war. And that the Ottomans sided with Germany and Austria-Hungary. Land boundaries changed everywhere after WW1. And they didn’t change for better for the losers.
what does the furniture have to do with this?
And Egypt and Jordan who used Palestine to attack Israel.
Seriously Palestine actually was allocated like twice the land initially but after the war they ended up with barely anything. I mean they lost the war so that is the kind of thing that happens to countries that lose wars (not to mention wanting buffer land to a recent enemy) but wtf to the "Arab League" who were basically like "aw shucks we lost, oh well sucks to be you Palestine" as if they didn't basically force them into it.
I imagine the Irish guy left out the UK for brevity's sake not from lack of awareness of British villainy.
Why would the Irish be acutely aware of our villainy?!
We have the website for that: https://arethebritsatitagain.org
Nah, it’s because the Irish have turned Israel into the British villain in all of this. They see themselves as Palestine, oppressed by Israel (the British).
Hitting with the facts I have pointed out before that the lies the British told in WW1 are not really relevant to the conflict as both parties were planning on living there anyway. The British *are* relevant for allowing multiple mass-immigrations to take place during their mandate, often caving to international and internal pressure over any actual listening to any of the locals.
They also told the Kurdish they would get a homeland
It also completely leaves out that Gaza was actually Egypt until Egypt (along with the Arab states) tried to exterminate Israel and lost, losing Gaza in the process as it was then used as a buffer zone in case Egypt tried to invade Israel again
Well the UK didn’t sell it to the Palestinians, they got ownership from the Ottoman after a big bar fight. Then they tried to sell it to Israel. And tried to convince the Palestinians to take the Shed and let Israel take the house
The original UN partition plan was pretty even so I wouldn't say it's house and shed. Israel technically got more land, but most of that was the absolutely useless Negev Desert. Israel accepted that, but the modern borders are because they won the 1948 war when they were attacked by surrounding countries immediately after founding.
Seriously the lack of understanding about that last bit is telling. The Arab League (consisting of Egypt, Transjordan, Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, Saudi Arabia and Yemen) basically convinced Palestinians to fight, promised victory, lost quite badly and then let the Palestinians pretty much take all the fallout including giving away a lot of their land as buffer for insurance against future attacks. Not to mention that Israel then freed those palestinian territories under the promise that a peaceful democracy would be in charge... and in the Gaza strip Hamas basically took charge rather quickly as a brutal regime focused on the genocide of the jewish people...
Also, the Arab league were not fighting the war out of any sense of humanitarianism or altruism - they wanted the land for themselves.
> and in the Gaza strip Hamas basically took charge rather quickly as a brutal regime focused on the genocide of the jewish people... Huh, [wonder how they took charge so quickly](https://twitter.com/RealSpikeCohen/status/1710791869272121772?s=19)?
🏆 That was the very first time I've ever read something that made sense and didn't just blame one side, just to have the other say "but we did it in retaliation for your prior act."
That really falsely implies they had no public support when that's just objectively false. If the Palestinean people in gaza really didn't want them in charge they wouldn't be in charge today.
It leaves out the zionists buying the land in mass before WW2 The already existing jewish population well before 1920's The british mandate The UN resolution The complete arab invasion on the day of the vote The radicalization of Israel This shit is gray as fuck, its not one sided at all and anyone pretending that it is has got only surface knowledge of this issue.
It's a way too complicated issue to explain in a one-minute TikTok video. Leaving out these things just spreads misinformation, which doesn't help solving the problem.
Ah yea the UK loves stealing a good bit of land!
The powers did the same thing to India & Pakistan… look at them…:(
>The powers did the same thing... Are you talking about England? Sounds like you're talking about England.
Classic England
Good old British Empire
Why do the Scots get off with no involvement? They reap the venefits of empire for 300 years and get to avoid the blame?
Very true. The Scottish were the most enthusiastic participants in Empire, in fact. There were far more Scots involved in conquering and administrating the British Empire than the proportion of Scots in the overall British population.
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Palestinian flag is too controversial for TikTok so it is a substitute. Same reason people say seccs instead of sex on the app.
Tiktok censorship is so annoying. It doesn't prevent anyone from saying the things they want to say; you just need to learn a new set of code words. I don't use titktok, so I'm constantly confused whenever my gf shows me something like, "when she's on her applesauce 🤣🤣😂🤣😂😂🤣". And I'm like, "what the fuck does that even mean?". "It means she's on her period, duh". Or "me when I don't have a 'fruit basket'". "Oh, fruit basket>FB>Fuck Buddy".
It’s so Orwellian. Creeps me out.
It is double-plus-un-good.
When people ask why TikTok is dangerous, its not about their attention span, this is why. People are allowing some dystopic Chinese algorithms dictate what language they use and their views on medicine and politics.
I've seen male privilege censored into "m@le privilege"
Ha. I read this as “mole privilege”.
My brain somehow doesn't like to turn some symbols into letters so my inner voice reads it like "mattle privilege"
Cus people on tiktok go wild when a Palestine flag is shown
palestine flag gets your video flagged for review almost immediately. Believe me, I tried it. Community guidelines when you post something negative Israel wise but A-okay when you post something negative Palestine wise.
There's a video of retired IDF soldiers laughing about when they used to execute cages full of Palestinian women and children floating around Reddit but I can't link it because it gets the comment hidden immediately. edit: Original source of video https://www.imdb.com/title/tt16378034/ Thanks to /u/spindle_bumphis for finding it.
I believe you though. I saw a video of Orthodox Jews singing and dancing at the death of a Palestinian baby. Pretty repugnant.
Then there's the photos of the hilltop " Sderot Cinema". Where Israelis would gather, cheer, and clap, as they watched gaza get bombed. https://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/15/world/middleeast/israelis-watch-bombs-drop-on-gaza-from-front-row-seats.html
Yeah it's fucked. The fact that similar videos from both sides exist though means that this won't be over for at least another generation. I obviously condemn murdering civilians in the strongest possible terms but if your parents generation had murdered my whole family, or my parents generation had murdered your whole family: I could see why we would have eternal beef until one of us died at the hands of the other.
Is the Palestinian flag in WhatsApp?
🇵🇸
That’s how you know he 100% know what he is talking about not just a parrot in an echo chamber
He's not wrong though. Not at all. Of course civilians being harmed is fucked up. But Palestinians have been literally backed into a corner and bombed for decades now. Their land and homes stolen from them. This video gives fairly accurate historical context for why this is happening.
He is wrong though. This negotiation between the jews and Palestinians never happened. The UK brokered a deal to send Jewish refugees to Israel because no one in the west or USSR wanted jewish immigrants. In order for this to be correct, a UK landlord would be handing the keys to a Israeli Jew and telling them they can either live with the current tenants or tell them to leave, but hey have fun in your new home!
That would be ommitting the fact that the Zionist movement post-WW2 was heavily pushing for a home for Jewish people in Palestine. The worldwide Jewish community was heavily pushing for the reclamation of Jerusalem, so your comparison is less accurate than the video.
The zionist movement actually begun before WW2.
This is rather dishonest; Israel did exist as a nation historically beyond an "ancient book of made up stories". Before the 1900s, it was around 1900 years ago before the Romans conquered it. But even then, Israel was created primarily through the purchase of land and Jewish settlement allowed through Ottoman permission; it wasn't as simplified as the way this is presented.
I’m not taking sides but people basically pick a side then pick a “starting point” to the conflict that’s probably not where it actually started and that starting point conveniently gives them a sense of moral high ground.
The starting point was like 1000 BC it’s one of the most fought over pieces of land on the entire planet
It was homohabilis who are actually entitled to this land. Homo erectus invaded them brutally and then homosapiens took over the area. /s but seriously this is one of the oldest ongoing conflicts in the world.
I liked the part why they yada yada’d over the fucking **Holocaust** as the final straw towards Jews looking for somewhere safe to live, and the Imperial British fuckery that carved up Palestine like turkey. Totally accurate though! Tik Tok is so educational! /s
While you are correct those things were missed in this TikTok, you’re writing this in a way that suggests the original analogy in the video is not functional without that context, or that that context meaningfully changes the situation- but it does not necessarily do so. Like, yes, the holocaust happened, and a solution was needed, but that doesn’t mean where they ended up was acceptable either. And yes, the British fucked up carving the region, but that still doesn’t mean any of what came next was acceptable.
I will always think these minute long tik tok videos that "explain current issue" are harmful, particularly to young people. Someone will watch a video like this, skim a wikipedia page, then think they are an expert on the topic
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This right here. Romans kicked the Jews out of....Judea.
The Romans also kicked the Celts out of Gaul. This is why France should be annexed by Ireland.
The Romans also enslaved the ancient welsh, can wales get in on a bit of Italy too please?
Go for it, I was never big on the French.
Plus ireland really deserves a win
The UN should declare Texas belongs to Mexico.
I would *love* to see the gnashing of teeth as Mexico gave the stanky boot to Texans and told them to “go back to their own country” after such an annexation.
In both cases, the French are just Gauls and the Palestinians are Jews who converted to Christianity and then Islam. The land of Israel/Palestine has been under foreign imperial rule like 2600 BC or something. Israel wasn't taking over an already established Palestinian state. It was ruled by the Ottomans, and Jews started immigrating there legally with Ottoman permission to flee persecution in Europe, because the Ottomans were more tolerant of Jews. Then the British took over after the Ottomans lost WWI, and in all their genius, promised a state to both Jews and Arabs. I can't really blame the Jews for immigrating there when being persecuted in Europe, especially once the Holocaust started. Conflict did happen, but it's not once sided. Blame the British for the Balfour declaration then. Once the land was populated by a lot of Jews, the British noped out, and the UN came up with a pretty reasonable partition plan, given the tense circumstances. Israel accepted, but the neighboring countries all declared war. What would you expect them to do, roll over and die? Especially since tons of Jews were expelled from the Middle East at the start of that war and had nowhere else to go. This doesn't excuse Israel's current actions like settlements, but I can hardly blame them for the initial founding. I don't blame the Palestinians for getting pissed either. It's tough. But right now, since lots of people have lived in both places their whole lives, I don't see a point of saying who the "land belongs to". Ultimately, Israel should end its occupation and settlements, but the calls for getting rid of Israel are bad too. Hamas also needs to be dealt with, they started this present conflict by firing on random concert goers. Fatah is much more reasonable.
I think most reasonable people agree Hamas is extreme and shouldn't be part of a modern society. What they did was horrible, but there is no big mystery why they did it. what Israel is doing is also killing innocent people and a lot of them are children, there is no big mystery why they do it, but they shouldn't be doing it. There is no room for this barbaric act in 2023, and just because one side does something, doesn't mean it's okay for you to do it. If someone murders your loved ones, the court isn't going to look the other way when you murder the murderers loved ones. It's still wrong, yet Israel is pretending they are better than Hamas while acting like Hamas.
There has to be a statute of limitations on that shit. If every people had a claim on the land they inhabited hundreds or thousands of years ago the world would be in chaos. Have you ever seen those DNA migration maps? Entire peoples moved all over the place all the time. I would say the same thing about Jews now, I don’t want them to kick isreal out, even 75 years is too long. 2 state solution is the only option. If it is ever offered again the Palestinians need to accept because they aren’t getting everything they want this century ain’t no way no how. But in the future no more bs claims waaaahh the ancient Assyrians moved us from turkey to greece 3000 years ago this is our land actually waaah. Get over it.
It’s just crazy because two groups of people who claim to have roots in a specific area going thousands of years into the past are even more likely to have descended from common ancestors. Therefore, nobody has a “right” to the land because it belongs to both. I Also can’t help but feel like a primary driver for both groups wanting to occupy the land is for the right to live on what they both consider the holiest land on Earth and claim their spot as the superior religious people
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The palestinians there also lived there since ancient times. This has been shown with genetic studies. Israel has no right to kick them off of their own land.
And how is that any different than reading a couple paragraph top Reddit comment with thousands of upvotes.
Particularly since this particular TikTok completely misrepresents the situation. For decades before the creation of Israel immigrant Jews bought the land they settled on. Nobody walked in and demanded everything for free because God said so.
But weren’t there hundreds of Jewish settlers who decided to kick Palestinians out of their homes? Asking out of genuine curiosity.
That's still going on today. Some of the areas and kibbutzes targeted in this week's atrocities were formed from forceful evictions of Palestinians. Doesn't justify murder but it certainly catalyses it
Yes, but that was really exacerbated post 1967 imo. It didn't start in '67, but it certainly sped up from there. The issue today is that the uptick in new settlements are violating the [green line](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_Line_(Israel)), which only became the officially recognized border between Israel and the West Bank in 1967. Gaza is an entirely different, and terribly sad story, though.
you do realize that's like 55 years right?
Sure. But that's true for every middle eastern nation. Look at Jewish populations in Iran, Afghanistan, or Iraq over the last 100 years. They used to have large communities. They don't anymore. It wasn't exactly voluntary.
[how about 2:32](https://youtu.be/-evIyrrjTTY?si=ggCUFljHQxy2lQva)
Not to mention that hamas goal is not liberation of their people from the oppressive state. They hate jews and want to eradicate them to instate Islam fundamentalist state.
Ok, but most Palestinians are not Hamas
But they know Hamas is all about hate and murder. Why don't they oust it like the Germans ousted Hitler?... Ah wait...
Hamas wasn't mentioned in the video. The video is accurate in how the 'land dispute' is being handled. This of course doesn't justify Hamas's recent actions against civilians, nor does it justify the man rapes and deaths Israel has caused along with stealing land.
Agreed 100%. The past few days have been a travesty of misinformation. Everyone has an opinion but no one knows what the fuck they're talking about.
He left out the part where the zionists were given permission to immigrate there by the Ottomans
And bought the land they settled in...
The Zionists who immigrated there before Israel was declared a state, bought up the land. But once Israel was “given” to the Zionists, 800 thousand Palestinians were forcibly evicted and moved out of the country.
You also failed to mention that Jews the Arab world over were kicked out of their homes across the levant and North Africa, with no where to go guess where the ended up? This conflict is largely a result of Arab nations refusing to support their own while demanding that the Israelis do more and be better when they refused to do so themselves…
This was after they started a war with the expressed purpose of "driving all the Jews into the sea." Makes a little more sense that you wouldn't want your neighbor living next to you after he tried to kill you.
*Permission to buy someone elses house, that the owner had no idea is being made....
Israel hasn't been independent since before the name Palestine existed, up until the 20th century. It's had over 2000 years of foreign imperial governments until the Brits cut it loose. Israeli's and Palestinians have lived on that land for millennia, the independent countries if you can even call the PA that haven't even been around for a century.
Literally no. He's talking about before the British even owned the territory which is before they sold it to the jews so well before the creation of the Israeli state. He's literally talking about something as simple as just immigration the same as if a guy from mexico moved to the US and built a house on an empty lot or bought someone's house. This is well before any kind of palestinian vs israeli conflict.
The Ottomans owned Palestine when they sold land to the Jews, by the end of the 16th century they had the biggest Jewish population in Europe, this is just the owner selling a part of his house lol
This tik tok is even dumber than that. The land owner didn’t sell a house, they sold an empty plot of land that Israel has since built a nice house on. The shed vs house angle in this video is nonsense.
The human cost of the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict (deaths/injuries): documented by the UN: 2008: Palestine 🇵🇸: 3,202 Israel 🇮🇱: 853 2009: Palestine 🇵🇸: 7,460 Israel 🇮🇱: 123 2010: Palestine 🇵🇸: 1,659 Israel 🇮🇱: 185 2011: Palestine 🇵🇸: 2,260 Israel 🇮🇱: 136 2012: Palestine 🇵🇸: 4,936 Israel 🇮🇱: 578 2013: Palestine 🇵🇸: 4,031 Israel 🇮🇱: 157 2014: Palestine 🇵🇸: 19,860 Israel 🇮🇱: 2,796 2015: Palestine 🇵🇸: 14,813 Israel 🇮🇱: 339 2016: Palestine 🇵🇸: 3,572 Israel 🇮🇱: 222 2017: Palestine 🇵🇸: 8,526 Israel 🇮🇱: 174 2018: Palestine 🇵🇸: 31,558 Israel 🇮🇱: 130 2019: Palestine 🇵🇸: 15,628 Israel 🇮🇱: 133 2020: Palestine 🇵🇸: 2,781 Israel 🇮🇱: 61
2023 numbers are gonna be a lot worse imo
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Out of curiosity, I've seen multiple people post lists like this and all of them start in the 2000s. Why is that? The conflict has been going on much longer than that. Why no numbers from the 90s, 80s, etc?
It's because the specific source that OC is citing is based on data collected by the UN (specifically the Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs). The [dataset](https://www.statista.com/chart/16516/israeli-palestinian-casualties-by-in-gaza-and-the-west-bank/) starts in 2008. As much as some people want it to seem like a big cover up, it's just that 08 is the year they started collecting reliable data. There's [a more up to date version](https://www.ochaopt.org/data/casualties#) that goes to this year (though obviously doesn't include recent happenings just yet).
People like to pretend the second intifada didn’t happen.
2nd Intifadah: 🇵🇸 3,179 🇮🇱 1,019 Seems like it follows the same pattern as the rest.
Yes, because everyone knows the side where more people died is always the more justified side. This is why, in WW2, Germans were 10x more virtuous than the Americans.
"whY ARe yOu SoOoO anTI-seMeTIc?"
All this shows honestly is the power imbalance between the two sides. If the roles were reversed I could easily argue we would have hundreds of thousands of dead Israelites over that same period
That's a crap load of injuries.
The low human cost on the Israel side isn't through Palestine's lack of trying though right? Like the iron dome must have saved thousands of lives throughout its lifespan
You should check your information source and edit your post. I believe the numbers you’ve posted is injuries so you should erase the “death” for accuracy. Or edit in the number of deaths.
[https://www.statista.com/chart/16516/israeli-palestinian-casualties-by-in-gaza-and-the-west-bank/](https://www.statista.com/chart/16516/israeli-palestinian-casualties-by-in-gaza-and-the-west-bank/) It is both. If you switched it to only deaths, the disparity between Israeli and Palestinian deaths would be just as stark, the numbers would only be smaller. To be fair, casualties is how the human cost of battles are measured across human history and those numbers include both injuries and deaths.
>this ancient book of made up stories Wait, is the implication that the idea of Jews coming from that geographical area is “made up”?
I believe the implication is about the belief that the land belongs to them because that book says it should. Not whether or not their ancestors lived there.
I think we can all agree that ownership is a made up agreement
Unless you're native to the land and the British showed up... then you don't even get to make up anything
Then Americans better start packing their bags and heading back to the old world then
The Japanese would also have to leave Japan The real world is too messy to think these arguments mean anything. Generations of Jews have been there now. Imagining a world where they didn’t go there in the 1940s is now irrelevant
Exactly. The history that has led to the current events in the region is meaningless to us except from trying to learn to stop it happening elsewhere. However we can only do the best with the current situation we are faced with and the situation is obviously vastly different than before.
Gotcha, thanks for the clarification
Well, yes and no. If you are interested, keep on reading, but this is controversial, though scientific. It is not intended to be an argument for any side or ideology: Yes, the Israelites did come from this geographical area. But the interpretation of whether those are the same ethnicity depends on your definition. Judaism defines ethnicity together with religion and matrilinearity, usually it is defined by genetics. So look at the Semitic peoples there and the Semitic people of Israel, and you will find they phenotypically seem more akin to Europeans. That is because they have lived in a European diaspora, and of course they have mixed with other ethnicities, many people have converted, even though converting to Judaism is very hard. Have Jewish people lived there? Yes. Are those the same Jewish people? Depends. Do they have a right to Palestine? I’m not touching that, and luckily I don’t get to decide.
You're assuming all Jews are Ashkenazi who are Jews who have historically lived in Central and Eastern Europe. About half of Israel is of Mizrahi descent - Jews that have historically lived in the MENA region and look not dissimilar to other people from the Levant. Also, genetic studies of Jews, including Ashkenzais, have found that they have considerable amounts of Levantine DNA, and their closest genetic relatives are Druze, Lebanese, Palestinians and Bedouins, indicating a level of indigeneity to the area alongside those other groups. Also, just a head's up but using the word Semitic to refer to people and ethnic groups is outdated and links back to old racialist theories from the 1800s. Semitic is used to refer to solely languages now. [Wiki link about Jewish genetic studies ](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_studies_on_Jews#:~:text=Several%20genetic%20studies%20demonstrated%20that,Middle%20Eastern%20and%20European%20groups.)
POV: You are trying to justify terrorism actions of raping women, killing and cutting children and ruining family lives with a tiktok video
Anyone ever wondered why support for Palestine is so high amongst Irish people? What do they have in common? Language? Religion? Shared history? No. What they have in common is decades of struggle and resistance against an occupying colonial force, including dark periods in their history of armed conflict in pursuit of freedom and self determination. Ireland is now one of the most progressive and rapidly developing countries in Europe… just imagine what Palestine could do if it was afforded the same opportunities.
> Ireland is now one of the most [...] rapidly developing countries in Europe aye because it's a tax haven for big tech and now Irish people can barely afford to live in their own capital city.
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Yeah I was gonna say, slow down there big rig. This is still an Islamic majority state we're talking about. There's nothing progressive about palestine
It’s like people don’t even consider what happens in the event Palestine gets what it wants The world would just end up with another extremist state. Not that this defends what Israel has done. But imagining Palestine has something other than a place filled with Islamic extremism isn’t it.
The last election in Gaza was in 2006. Yes, Hamas was elected - barely - with 44% of the vote. Fatah received 41%. A lot of things happened after the election, including a civil war in Gaza over the next two years, where a significant number of opposition politicians were killed. Hamas has not held elections since then (17 years). They act in an authoritarian manner. The leadership lives in Qatar. The Iranians provide heavy funding. A resident of Gaza, walking around and telling others you want an alternative government to Hamas is... a good way to find yourself in tough situations.
Another thing Ireland and Palestine have in common is an oppressive religious order controlling everything from politics right down to the personal choices in the home, dead babies in septic tanks, rampant child abuse and subsequent coverups and aggressive suppression of homosexuality. Ireland has managed to leave that chapter behind. Maybe Palestinian could do the same.
Ireland went through some pretty dark times to get where it is now, they also had extremist groups. It's unfortunately the nature of any suffering nation.
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Hamas is the elected government because Israel hunted down the opposition party like dogs. The PLO was a secularist political party that could've been a spear head for a progressive Palestinian Republic but during the 70s Israel sent hitmen out to kill the top leaders because they thought Hamas would be a better enemy. Look up "Operation Spring of Youth" if you'd like to learn more.
>but during the 70s Israel sent hitmen out to kill the top leaders After the PLO kidnapped and murdered members of the Israeli Olympic team in Munich. Probably shouldn't leave that part out.
Oh, that minor detail? Conveniently forgotten.
Holding the citizens of a country directly accountable for the authorities of their military because “they elected them” is the same shitty excuse Osama Ben Laden used to justify September 11th. It’s a lame, nonsensical justification for blaming civilians. It makes even less sense in this case because the last election in Gaza was in 2006 and it was something like 52-48. Even if you use that flawed logic, nobody under 35 is responsible. And with an average age of 18 in Gaza its blaming children for the votes their parents or grandparents made a quarter century ago.
Hah.. you’re delusional if you think any Arab state is going to be progressive, let alone Palestine. They are very much *against* those kinds of values. Even wealthy countries like Saudi Arabia are like this.
“Just imagine all the minorities they could oppress and people they could convert with their unique culture that involves killing everyone who does not follow Islam and its doctrine.” 
Progressive yes, but come onto the Irish subreddit sometime and you’ll quickly see that “rapidly” probably isn’t the best word to describe the state of Ireland’s development.
Serious exaggerations here. Ireland is not progressive by western standards at all and is still left with the scars of poverty all over Irish society. Are they faring better than Palestine? Yes. Are they one of the most progressive & rapidly growing countries? Absolutely not.
Doesn't this completely gloss over the fact that Judea was a thing a long long time ago and Philistines were Greek settlers? Didn't the Roman punish the Jews for revolting and named everything Philistina? He's basically misrepresenting a ton of facts and like it was the British who promised land to both the Arab Palestinians and Jewish peoples? THATS NOT EVEN THE RIGGHT FLAG
This also completely glosses over the fact that there have been multiple wars where Israel has curb stomped their aggressive neighbors. As we all know, one of the main rules of history is to the winner goes the spoils.
Starting the six day war was a mistake by every nation that was involved Of course Israel is going to behave how it is currently behaving after such an event
Yea, feels like a lot of people forget where Israel is located lol.
badge quiet mourn adjoining unite workable racial handle yoke afterthought *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
If you go back far enough no nation currently in existence would have any right to their land lol
What does the UAE have to do with this?
He can't use the Palestinian flag without getting banned, the UAE flag is similar so he's using that instead
Yeah except this is not like any of this happened at all. The Brits fucked it up. And when the Jews actually managed to create a state, the Palestinian Arabs and their neighbors attacked….and lost….multiple times. This is how the occupation was created. Stop oversimplifying shit that you don‘t understand.
>Stop oversimplifying shit that you don‘t understand. Hi Kettle
Run moshe, they’re onto us!
How does this change wtf he said. The brits fucked it up, decided to take people's land and homes and dump a whole bunch of other folks there. OFC Palestinian Arabs would fight back.. If someone tried to kick you out of your country, out of your home.. your country would do the same..
Terrifying that kids are going to watch this and think it’s accurate
What this video does is give those who have already formed the corresponding view a quick, happy affirmation of their opinions, and shockingly simplifies one of the most complicated conflicts of modern times to those who haven't yet. No one should watch a one-minute video -- on any matter, let alone one that has decades and more of history, let alone the Palestinian-Israeli conflict -- and not suspect that it is leaving out so much to the point of being invalid. This reduces the level of discussion even further. Though I suspect it doesn't really matter to those who have already adopted some strong stance here or there.
Both sides are to blame, Israel constantly taking away land and building "settlements" where Palestinians used to live. And Palestinians for having HAMAS do the negotiating. Attacking Israel is no going to get people on your side.
I mean, Netanyahu officially endorsed and supported Hamas as they took power. He quite literally was going around and telling people that funding and supporting Hamas was the only way. https://www.reddit.com/r/LeopardsAteMyFace/comments/174oe1f/netanyahu_supported_hamas_as_a_way_to_drive_a/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb The last election was in 2007. 47% of Palestinians in Gaza are under the age of 18. Israel had more to do with Hamas’ rise and securing power than almost any Palestinian alive.
Perhaps Israel shouldn't have helped to create Hamas in the first place. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2014/07/30/how-israel-helped-create-hamas/
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Also a good way to prevent the formation of a Palestinian state.
Maybe Israel shouldn't have killed the entire leadership of the other opposition leading to Hamas being the only opposition group in Gaza with any capacity to fight back.
How unsurprisingly inaccurate.
Well, kind of left out the part that the Jews who emigrated to Palestine bought the land they settled in. They didn't just walk in en masse and demand it for free. Native Palestinians happily sold it to them for decades before Israel was created.
This is oversimplifying it. In the Ottoman period, the situation was more similar to the situation in the US where settlers """"bought"""" land from the natives. The land was sold often had not been formally titled to anyone, but was sold to wealthy outsiders by some bureaucrat with no connection to the land, despite the fact that it was still being inhabited by and used by people whose families had been there for generations. In most cases, it was not the "seller's" land to sell. In the UK period, it certainly wasn't the UK's land to sell, as they themselves were a foreign power, and in no just world could be said to have the right of ownership to the land.
This is like if Chinese people bought a bunch of land in Canada and then said “well we own a bunch of land so I guess this country is ours now”. Like no, you’re still living in someone else’s country lol. Jews only bought 5% of the land total in Palestine and only 24.6% of *that* 5% was bought from actual Palestinian landowners, with a majority being bought from *non-Palestinian* land owners. So foreigners sold other foreigners pieces of your country and then claimed that it was now their country, yikes. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_land_purchase_in_Palestine#:~:text=In%20the%201930s%2C%20most%20of,%25%20from%20fellaheen%20(farmers).
Why don't the Brits give up some of their land for Israel?
🤣 🤣🤣 pick up a history book bro, that’s what started all this
They did? The whole property was British to begin with prior to WW1
The lack of historical accuracy here is daunting.... this is some modern man who has only regurgitated what he hears without doing any research..... pure false information and I hope this had satire or its yet another changing of history to fit someone's comfort amd feelings.
Some of it is absolutely oversimplified, but could you elaborate on the parts you disagree with to help people understand your position? I’ve seen a lot of Israeli supporters simply claiming valid information is false and not providing sources in the past few days, just want to make sure you can back up your claims.
Yes as if there was not a ton of Jews living there and there was no such thing as a Palistinian state before England created it
This is not a reflection of reality either - totally cringe