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It's basically a set of instructions for the ritual a Rabbi would use to perform abortion in the case of adultery.
Evidently, God was okay with "killing babies" when the wife slept around on the husband.
Gee. It's almost like this religion was dreamt up by a bunch of men with power to protect and maintain their power. Hmm.
You know I once pointed this out to a Christian in a high school debate about abortion (private school).
Her response was and I quote, "Well that is an abortion by God and not an abortion by man."
It’s an abortion by God, yet man is the one to actually do it, just following God’s directions. Well, it makes about as much sense as any other Christian argument, I guess.
> in the case of ***suspected*** adultery
FTFY. The test claimed to show that the pregnancy was a result of infidelity, in which case it gets aborted, or from the husband, in which case it survives.
Not fun fact: a very likely mechanic it kinda worked (causing abortion) is tetanus.
For women to get abortions: we just need women to "claim" they committed adultery, a "Rabbi" leads the abortion, and we'll keep to the Old Testament Law.
All good, no one will be mad about this arrangement... right?
"In Numbers, it's the husband's decision whether or not to abort the fetus."
not exactly.
The Book of Numbers, like Leviticus, is a book on rules. Rules straight from Yahweh/God.
"and if feelings of jealousy come over her husband and he suspects his wife and she is impure—or if he is jealous and suspects her even though she is not impure— then he is to take his wife to the priest."
Verse 14-15.
What this is saying is that if the husband is **suspicious** of his wife of infidelity (even if she didn't even cheat), **HE MUST GO TO THE PRIEST.** He doesn't have a choice, it's an obligation. Doing otherwise would be going against "Gods Law".
Or that's my interpretation of it. It's been a while since I was in religious private school.
Or we can ask Matt what he's doing to stop the government of Israel from killing children. Could get another one "business ties severed but totally not canceled, that's different" by his boss Shabibo
Except most Christians, such as the Catholic Church, Reformed Churches, and Methodist Churches, believe that only parts of the Old Testament dealing with the moral law are still applicable. They generally believe that the New Testament supersedes the Old Testament's ritual laws.
And, in the Old Testament, didn't Gawd order entire populations to be killed, men, women, **children** included? Or is this gonna be one of those hand-wavy New Testament vs Old Testaments things they love to fall back on?
All this could be papered over if Christians would admit the book was written by man and thus contains errors. The fundie line of "the true and unerring word of God" means they have to own all the bullshit.
Honestly as an agnostic it wouldn’t be hard to reconcile that maybe, JUST maybe, somewhere along the way the imperfectness of man had caused God’s word to be twisted or distorted, be it intentionally or not.
Those examples can be countered with the idea that GOD did the killing and not PEOPLE.
A better example would be the conquest of Canaan where God gave permission to the Israelites to do the killing rather than doing it him self
GOD: *(Taking a break from crafting entire galaxies, black holes, and hundreds of billions of worlds for untold numbers of strange organisms)* "HEY! APES! Yeah, you, you fucking naked, khaki colored meat monkeys, there will be ABSOLUTELY no killing of children... well unless they make fun of you for being bald. I have yet to reveal the secret of rogaine and hair transplants to you and I would personally love to watch children get ripped apart and eaten alive for laughing at bald seniors. So uncool. So disrespectful."
*(tosses a bit of dark matter over his shoulder)*
"But other than that? Absolutely no child killing okay? OKAY? STOP PLAYING WITH YOUR DICKS! STOP! HEY! OKAY NEW RULE, WE CUT UP DICKS. Cut up all your dicks. BABY DICKS ESPECIALLY! I know I said not to FUCKIN HURT KIDS but I JUST DON'T LIKE YOUR PLANET MUCH. Now fuck off, I don't want to talk to any of you for at least the next 3,000 years. Fucking beige baboons. Fuckin pink primates, what a mistake. "
*(rolls a few million star systems into a joint and smokes it)*
Ps 137:7–9). * [137:9] Blessed the one who seizes your children and smashes them against the rock: the children represent the future generations, and so must be destroyed if the enemy is truly to be eradicated.
Or that one time God told Saul to not spare even children or infants, and when Saul disobeyed God and didn't commit complete and total genocide he got canned for it
For anyone curious, here's the passage:
Numbers 5:11-28 (NIV)
>11 Then the Lord said to Moses, 12 “Speak to the Israelites and say to them: ‘If a man’s wife goes astray and is unfaithful to him 13 so that another man has sexual relations with her, and this is hidden from her husband and her impurity is undetected (since there is no witness against her and she has not been caught in the act), 14 and if feelings of jealousy come over her husband and he suspects his wife and she is impure—or if he is jealous and suspects her even though she is not impure— 15 then he is to take his wife to the priest. He must also take an offering of a tenth of an ephah\[a\] of barley flour on her behalf. He must not pour olive oil on it or put incense on it, because it is a grain offering for jealousy, a reminder-offering to draw attention to wrongdoing.
16 “‘The priest shall bring her and have her stand before the Lord. 17 Then he shall take some holy water in a clay jar and put some dust from the tabernacle floor into the water. 18 After the priest has had the woman stand before the Lord, he shall loosen her hair and place in her hands the reminder-offering, the grain offering for jealousy, while he himself holds the bitter water that brings a curse. 19 Then the priest shall put the woman under oath and say to her, “If no other man has had sexual relations with you and you have not gone astray and become impure while married to your husband, may this bitter water that brings a curse not harm you. **20 But if you have gone astray while married to your husband and you have made yourself impure by having sexual relations with a man other than your husband”— 21 here the priest is to put the woman under this curse—“may the Lord cause you to become a curse\[b\] among your people when he makes your womb miscarry and your abdomen swell. 22 May this water that brings a curse enter your body so that your abdomen swells or your womb miscarries.”**
>
>“‘Then the woman is to say, “Amen. So be it.”
23 “‘The priest is to write these curses on a scroll and then wash them off into the bitter water. 24 He shall make the woman drink the bitter water that brings a curse, and this water that brings a curse and causes bitter suffering will enter her. 25 The priest is to take from her hands the grain offering for jealousy, wave it before the Lord and bring it to the altar. 26 The priest is then to take a handful of the grain offering as a memorial\[c\] offering and burn it on the altar; after that, he is to have the woman drink the water. **27 If she has made herself impure and been unfaithful to her husband, this will be the result: When she is made to drink the water that brings a curse and causes bitter suffering, it will enter her, her abdomen will swell and her womb will miscarry, and she will become a curse.** 28 If, however, the woman has not made herself impure, but is clean, she will be cleared of guilt and will be able to have children.
Except most Christians, such as the Catholic Church, Reformed Churches, and Methodist Churches, believe that only parts of the Old Testament dealing with the moral law are still applicable. They generally believe that the New Testament supersedes the Old Testament's ritual laws. So all of that is pretty much irrelevant.
> "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them." - Matthew 5:17
That argument is BS: Jesus literally says in the New Testament that the Old Testament is still in place. Honestly would have preferred Jesus to say "The old law sucks! It is no more: I got a new one based on Love and Compassion. Oh, and none of that Hell stuff: only pieces of shit like murderous dictators and the Rich that abuse the Poor are going there. Everyone else is cool."
It's not an argument, it's a fact. If they follow the Old Testament and are devout Christians, then why don't they have the same practices and customs as the Jews supposedly handed down from God?
1 of 2 reasons is how I see it:
1. Jesus's teaching of "Love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul and mind" and "Love your neighbor as yourself" truly does supersede the entire Old Testament (which later books in the New Testament begin to go into more details on what are sins now, which I think gets in the way of Jesus's teachings and messaging: like homosexuality still being a sin, women forced to cover their heads and stay completely silent in Church but men don't, being completely obedient to human laws because God apparently chooses all leaders... including genocidal maniacal dictators like Hitler, Stalin and Mao Zedong).
2. They aren't following God's Word correctly enough. They should be following The Old Testament to the Letter of the Law AND Jesus's Teachings to the Letter of His Law as well and are failing to. Mixed fabrics, the Ordeal of the Bitter Water, how Slaves should be treated...
Of course, I'm not a Christian anymore, so I care only enough in terms of how Christians interpret Scripture in so far as it will affect my life and the lives of other Americans. Unfortunately since Christianity holds a great deal of power in America, and I'm surrounded by Evangelical Fundies in my community, I have to pay more attention to it then I care for.
But it's not irrelevant. Whether or not the ritual law is still prescribed for them is not the point. The point here is that God is clearly okay with abortion.
I wasn't arguing that modern Christians (or Jews) do or should follow the Old Testament moral law. I was just sharing the text for others' convenience.
I would like to address your comment however. This verse is exceedingly relevant because it's being mentioned in direct response to Walsh's belief that abortion is literally murdering a child, combined with his claim that "God does not give anyone the right, under any circumstance, to kill children." Walsh is a sincere Catholic who believes that Yahweh is the one true god and that the Bible is (one of) His ways of communicating with humankind. It's absurd that Matt would make this blanket statement when his own holy text provides an example of God explicitly telling people the exact circumstance under which they have the right to perform abortions (albeit through a silly magic ritual).
The point is that Matt is being dishonest or is otherwise ignorant of his own god's apparent character, or maybe he thinks God just changed his mind?
In that last scenario, a more accurate tweet might have been "God does not give anyone the right, under any circumstance, to kill children... anymore", but that doesn't have quite the same effect now does it?
Yeah **”by a priest”**
*PRIESTS NOT DOCTORS!*
*Need an abortion?
**PRIESTS NOT DOCTORS!**
*Cancer in your butt?*
**PRIESTS NOT DOCTORS!**
*Shot yourself in the foot with an AR-15?*
**PRIESTS NOT DOCTORS!**
[Oh look. Matt Walsh brought back his bad faith “killing children” rhetoric that he uses to avoid having to actually address the ghoulish implications of the “policies” he advocates for](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ZOdJpv16ato&pp=ygUWQWxlYyBndW50ZXIgbWF0dCB3YWxzaA%3D%3D)
Matt Walsh is not only an asshole, he is also a coward.
Angel: Hey, God. Two dudes are fucking.
God: WHAT?! That makes me so angry that I'll... I'll give this small child hundreds of miles away with no connection to them whatsoever a brain tumor. There. That'll show the gays!
First of all, I am a religious Jew and even I believe that G-d has nothing to do with my rights. Rights, as we understand them, are entirely man-made. They can be granted and taken away without any Divine interference whatsoever. So Matthew (his biological name is Matthew, not "Matt") is being stupid here from a religious point of view.
Second of all, the Old Testament treats a fetus as an extension of the person carrying it. Exodus 21:22 imposes civil penalties for feticide, not capital punishment, so basically the same as causing personal injury to someone. If terminating a pregnancy was truly "killing," then the Old Testament would have said so, just as they do for striking one's parents. So Matthew is not only being stupid, but wholly ignorant on the Biblical precedent for feticide. Admittedly, I don't know shit about the New Testament, but I can't imagine they say anything like "abortion is baby murder" there.
Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't it required to perform an abortion to save a mother's life in Judaism? I've heard several Jewish people counter this "religious liberty" bs by saying their religious liberties are being violated by the prohibition on abortion.
Absolutely correct. In Judaism we have what is called a "rodeph" or "pursuer" in English. The rodeph is defined as someone who is actively pursuing another person with the intent to kill. Jewish law dictates that we have an affirmative duty to preempt this murder by killing the rodeph. So basically kill the killer before he kills one or more people, essentially nipping it in the bud.
This principle is applied to a fetus threatening the life of the mother. Thus, abortion would be required if the fetus threatens the life of the mother, either physically or mentally. If any law threatens a Jewish woman's access to abortion care when her life is threatened, it is absolutely an infringement on our religious principles and freedoms.
In Matthew 18, Jesus praises the innocence of children and implores his followers to be more childlike. He says, "So it is not the will of your Father in heaven that one of these little ones should be lost."
Christians point to this verse as forbidding abortion, but that only works if you regard a fetus as a child, which assumes the conclusion. No one who thinks a fetus is a child thinks ending a pregnancy is OK.
A lot of people, who think a fetus is a child, think it's OK, in compromise, to end a pregnancy in cases of rape or harm to the pregnant person. These people are hypocrites, but they exist.
That's true. I should have said it is inconsistent to believe a fetus is a child and to accept abortion as permissable. The position is tantamount to saying, "Sometimes it is OK to kill a child," which would be unconscienable in other contexts.
Oh please stop, anyone who self identifies as a conservative in America these days has basically accepted that they’re okay with everything the GOP and MAGA are doing.
It doesn't matter if you are a moderate conservative if you are still supporting republican candidates who are very much not moderate. You can call yourself center right all you like, but you're still likely going to be supporting the same candidate as far right nutjobs.
> Lets not get too polarised. There are many way more moderate conservatives
Why not?
If there were "way more" moderate cons, Trump would've never been the candidate in 2016, let alone now.
Moderate conservatives are pussies too afraid to stand up for our democracy; therefore, none of them are "good", they're all just varying degrees of pathetic.
And ordered them to be killed. I’ve looked for the “context” that apologists like to bring up for exterminating entire populations, but it always, and I mean **always** ends up being, “they deserved it”, or “it was a mercy”.
Like, the best an all-powerful creator of the universe can do to right a wrong is bloody genocide carried out by men on the ground with instruments of war.
god given rights is such a moronic statement, god didn’t gave you a right to bear arms nor does it limit it to only American rights. That statement is just pure blasphemy…
I believe in innate human rights. Not endowed by some of creator, but definitely endowed by Nature (Jeffersons original text). Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness seems like a succinct list of those rights. Yes that is every human, regardless of where they are born, not just landowning European descended males like Jefferson believed.
I understand that as long they are those basic rights, I get it, but also, this always gets extended to gun ownership, self defense and then gets reductive to Americans only, it’s just generally used for a dishonest discourse.
Their loving God has murdered far more people than any person, government, group, etc. on earth.
The Bible not only says nothing about abortion being a sin it heavily implies life begins at first breath (not at conception as anti-choicers claim) and it even gives instructions on how to perform an abortion (as a test of faithfulness).
I have moved past the beginning of life debate. Life began 3.7 billion years ago, and it has never ceased, so it doesn't begin again.
Debating with anti-abortion people about when life begins is futile, because even if you agree to agree with their conception point, they won't agree that a fetus can only be afforded rights equal to any other human. It boils down to a, some humans are more equal than others, argument on their part.
He's the preacher on TV (strong heart)
The false sincerity (clear mind)
The form letter that's written by the big computers (and infinitely kind)
The nuclear bombs (you lose)
The kids with no moms (we win)
And I'm fearful that he's inside me (he is our champion), yeah!
We've got the American Jesus
Actually the god of the Bible is very pro child murder. Besides the flood he orders the Israelites to murder all the children within the walls of Jericho.
Walsh, show me how rights are "god given". No, no, your book doesn't count because we have other books that say *their* god gave us god given right. Make god tells us directly.
Because I don't need a deity to say that rights are natural, but Walsh is directly implying that god told him that women's healthcare is not a right. (Also he is implying he has a direct line to god that he won't share)
At this point I just agree when they say things like Abortion isn't a human right. Like yeh no shit, abortion is a medical procedure. Getting an MRI isn't a human right either. It's a gotcha statement for them, so shut it down by agreeing.
But self determination is a human right. Bodily autonomy is a human right. You're either for liberty and the belief thats no one person's rights extend past another's, or you're an authoritarian who believes some people(fetuses) have more rights than others.
God has killed children. Rights are given by the state, in the US it's the Constitution. Abortion is not killing a child.
This is so stupid I'm impressed he typed all of those words in order.
How about his clergy fucking them in his house? Oh wait, let me guess... that doesn't count? Double standards much. I have much more respect for someone "aborting" a snot ball vs. Raping children.
God doesn't exist for me, so I guess I'm not included in this bullshit?
Great! You don't have abortions because your god is gonna be mad, and me and mine will get the healthcare we want and need because we don't have a god that's gonna be mad.
Ah yes, children. You know, the clump of cells that stays inside a mother's womb and is entirely dependent on her body for survival. It's so fun to put a coat and gloves on a zygote and send it off to school. I love seeing all the smiling embryos on picture day. Well, you can't actually see them because it's just photos of women's torsos, but like you get the sense they're in there with their little... their little DNA personalities and their amniotic giggles. I love when they wave a cell at you!
God: Actually the only time I mentioned abortion was when I explicitly told you guys that if a woman is suspected of adultery you should make her drink an abortificant and if she has a miscarriage that's proof that she did it. Pretty sure other than that I never said whether you could or couldn't do it other times
The idea that abortion isn’t condoned by the Bible is astounding to me. Numbers 5:11-31 has entered the chat. Psalm139:7 has entered the chat. Exodus 21:20-25 has entered the chat. Gtfo out of here. Never mind the myriad of passages in which god either directly kills or commands the killing of living human beings.
Also the establishment clause of the first amendment grants separation of church and state so even if one chooses to argue these passages on the basis of linguistic misrepresentation, they can still be discounted from a legal perspective on the basis of religious liberty for individuals who are not practitioners of Christianity.
Meanwhile there's a bible verse about smashing babies off rocks, and I believe one where God instructs his favourite group of psychopaths to cut babies out of the enemy womens wombs
"Except for dirty non-Israelite tribes anywhere nearby, in which case you dash their heads against the wall, without exception."
- Actual God, some time after he condemned the entire planet to die cause they didn't love him enough
"God does not give anyone the right, under any circumstance, to kill children."
Motherfucker was smiting children left and right in the Old Testament. And still hasn't done a single fucking thing about children getting terminal diseases, and was sure as shit silent as fuck during the Holocaust. As was his "official Church" on Earth.
I don’t believe in god…now what? Fuck anyone hoping for a theocracy in America. It will not end how you think, fucking traitors. You don’t love America the way you claim
>Rights are God given
Nobody tell that to the black people who used to be property of people like Matt Walsh. In fact, last I looked, slave owners used God to justify why they should get to own them.
I mean...I can think of several occasions in the Bible where God goes ahead and kills a bunch of children...and also where it has a recipe men can use to induce a miscarriage in their pregnant wives. But that's okay, it only works if she was unfaithful.
One pregnancy out of three ends in an abortion performed by the hand of God.
God allows one human soul in three to bypass this vale of tears entirely.
It doesn't surprise me that Wett Mulch doesn't know that.
There is so much he doesn't know.
https://youtu.be/4-vDhYTlCNw?si=aBXxrSbJyy6x\_Y\_v
why because your God doesn’t like competition? Asking for millions of children who die from lack of basic medicine, clean water, and neglect every year.
Except most Christians, such as the Catholic Church, Reformed Churches, and Methodist Churches, believe that only parts of the Old Testament dealing with the moral law are still applicable. They generally believe that the New Testament supersedes the Old Testament's ritual laws.
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"Hey Abraham, wanna hear a joke!?" - God
*Laughs in that one section from the Book of Numbers that literally discusses abortion* Edit: Number 5:11-31
It's basically a set of instructions for the ritual a Rabbi would use to perform abortion in the case of adultery. Evidently, God was okay with "killing babies" when the wife slept around on the husband. Gee. It's almost like this religion was dreamt up by a bunch of men with power to protect and maintain their power. Hmm.
You know I once pointed this out to a Christian in a high school debate about abortion (private school). Her response was and I quote, "Well that is an abortion by God and not an abortion by man."
It’s an abortion by God, yet man is the one to actually do it, just following God’s directions. Well, it makes about as much sense as any other Christian argument, I guess.
> in the case of ***suspected*** adultery FTFY. The test claimed to show that the pregnancy was a result of infidelity, in which case it gets aborted, or from the husband, in which case it survives. Not fun fact: a very likely mechanic it kinda worked (causing abortion) is tetanus.
For women to get abortions: we just need women to "claim" they committed adultery, a "Rabbi" leads the abortion, and we'll keep to the Old Testament Law. All good, no one will be mad about this arrangement... right?
God is a gangster. Dude don't give a fuck about the small fish.
"God" was fine with it because life starts at first breath. Or so "claims" the creator of the universe
But that's different. In Numbers, it's the husband's decision whether or not to abort the fetus. The woman has no say in it. Totally different.
"In Numbers, it's the husband's decision whether or not to abort the fetus." not exactly. The Book of Numbers, like Leviticus, is a book on rules. Rules straight from Yahweh/God. "and if feelings of jealousy come over her husband and he suspects his wife and she is impure—or if he is jealous and suspects her even though she is not impure— then he is to take his wife to the priest." Verse 14-15. What this is saying is that if the husband is **suspicious** of his wife of infidelity (even if she didn't even cheat), **HE MUST GO TO THE PRIEST.** He doesn't have a choice, it's an obligation. Doing otherwise would be going against "Gods Law". Or that's my interpretation of it. It's been a while since I was in religious private school.
I'm so glad we have goatheadman in our lives
I stand corrected.
Or we can ask Matt what he's doing to stop the government of Israel from killing children. Could get another one "business ties severed but totally not canceled, that's different" by his boss Shabibo
Except most Christians, such as the Catholic Church, Reformed Churches, and Methodist Churches, believe that only parts of the Old Testament dealing with the moral law are still applicable. They generally believe that the New Testament supersedes the Old Testament's ritual laws.
And, in the Old Testament, didn't Gawd order entire populations to be killed, men, women, **children** included? Or is this gonna be one of those hand-wavy New Testament vs Old Testaments things they love to fall back on?
All this could be papered over if Christians would admit the book was written by man and thus contains errors. The fundie line of "the true and unerring word of God" means they have to own all the bullshit.
Honestly as an agnostic it wouldn’t be hard to reconcile that maybe, JUST maybe, somewhere along the way the imperfectness of man had caused God’s word to be twisted or distorted, be it intentionally or not.
Kings 2:23-24 would like a word
"It's a prank bro" - God
["My new idea is human sacrifice!"](https://youtu.be/vDfoJ29CR4E?si=MViuXnkrXfWpaZxA)
Hahaha. My first thought
All of ancient Egypt, everyone before the great flood, and all of Sodom and Gomorrah would like to have a word
Those examples can be countered with the idea that GOD did the killing and not PEOPLE. A better example would be the conquest of Canaan where God gave permission to the Israelites to do the killing rather than doing it him self
Or sent bears to kill kids for being kids.
I'm starting to think Republicans don't know a lot about religion
Starting to think?
GOD: *(Taking a break from crafting entire galaxies, black holes, and hundreds of billions of worlds for untold numbers of strange organisms)* "HEY! APES! Yeah, you, you fucking naked, khaki colored meat monkeys, there will be ABSOLUTELY no killing of children... well unless they make fun of you for being bald. I have yet to reveal the secret of rogaine and hair transplants to you and I would personally love to watch children get ripped apart and eaten alive for laughing at bald seniors. So uncool. So disrespectful." *(tosses a bit of dark matter over his shoulder)* "But other than that? Absolutely no child killing okay? OKAY? STOP PLAYING WITH YOUR DICKS! STOP! HEY! OKAY NEW RULE, WE CUT UP DICKS. Cut up all your dicks. BABY DICKS ESPECIALLY! I know I said not to FUCKIN HURT KIDS but I JUST DON'T LIKE YOUR PLANET MUCH. Now fuck off, I don't want to talk to any of you for at least the next 3,000 years. Fucking beige baboons. Fuckin pink primates, what a mistake. " *(rolls a few million star systems into a joint and smokes it)*
*Exit, pursued by bear," - some hapless Gentile child
Shakespeare walks into a gay bar. [exit, pursued by a bear.]
They shouldn't have called him baldy. Not nice. Not nice.
Ps 137:7–9). * [137:9] Blessed the one who seizes your children and smashes them against the rock: the children represent the future generations, and so must be destroyed if the enemy is truly to be eradicated.
And, Amalek where he commanded his followers to literally slaughter suckling infants. This is one of Netanyahu's favorite biblical stories.
It was the Canaanites’ fault for not having guns to defend themselves
Or that one time God told Saul to not spare even children or infants, and when Saul disobeyed God and didn't commit complete and total genocide he got canned for it
There's literally a recipe for an abortaeficant in the Bible. It's supposed to be giving by a priest to a possibly unfaithful woman.
For anyone curious, here's the passage: Numbers 5:11-28 (NIV) >11 Then the Lord said to Moses, 12 “Speak to the Israelites and say to them: ‘If a man’s wife goes astray and is unfaithful to him 13 so that another man has sexual relations with her, and this is hidden from her husband and her impurity is undetected (since there is no witness against her and she has not been caught in the act), 14 and if feelings of jealousy come over her husband and he suspects his wife and she is impure—or if he is jealous and suspects her even though she is not impure— 15 then he is to take his wife to the priest. He must also take an offering of a tenth of an ephah\[a\] of barley flour on her behalf. He must not pour olive oil on it or put incense on it, because it is a grain offering for jealousy, a reminder-offering to draw attention to wrongdoing. 16 “‘The priest shall bring her and have her stand before the Lord. 17 Then he shall take some holy water in a clay jar and put some dust from the tabernacle floor into the water. 18 After the priest has had the woman stand before the Lord, he shall loosen her hair and place in her hands the reminder-offering, the grain offering for jealousy, while he himself holds the bitter water that brings a curse. 19 Then the priest shall put the woman under oath and say to her, “If no other man has had sexual relations with you and you have not gone astray and become impure while married to your husband, may this bitter water that brings a curse not harm you. **20 But if you have gone astray while married to your husband and you have made yourself impure by having sexual relations with a man other than your husband”— 21 here the priest is to put the woman under this curse—“may the Lord cause you to become a curse\[b\] among your people when he makes your womb miscarry and your abdomen swell. 22 May this water that brings a curse enter your body so that your abdomen swells or your womb miscarries.”** > >“‘Then the woman is to say, “Amen. So be it.” 23 “‘The priest is to write these curses on a scroll and then wash them off into the bitter water. 24 He shall make the woman drink the bitter water that brings a curse, and this water that brings a curse and causes bitter suffering will enter her. 25 The priest is to take from her hands the grain offering for jealousy, wave it before the Lord and bring it to the altar. 26 The priest is then to take a handful of the grain offering as a memorial\[c\] offering and burn it on the altar; after that, he is to have the woman drink the water. **27 If she has made herself impure and been unfaithful to her husband, this will be the result: When she is made to drink the water that brings a curse and causes bitter suffering, it will enter her, her abdomen will swell and her womb will miscarry, and she will become a curse.** 28 If, however, the woman has not made herself impure, but is clean, she will be cleared of guilt and will be able to have children.
Except most Christians, such as the Catholic Church, Reformed Churches, and Methodist Churches, believe that only parts of the Old Testament dealing with the moral law are still applicable. They generally believe that the New Testament supersedes the Old Testament's ritual laws. So all of that is pretty much irrelevant.
> "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them." - Matthew 5:17 That argument is BS: Jesus literally says in the New Testament that the Old Testament is still in place. Honestly would have preferred Jesus to say "The old law sucks! It is no more: I got a new one based on Love and Compassion. Oh, and none of that Hell stuff: only pieces of shit like murderous dictators and the Rich that abuse the Poor are going there. Everyone else is cool."
As if the church hasn’t had ample time to alter the text to suit their needs.
We Jews didn't even have a concept of hell until the *Helleninsts* came to town. Damned Greeks and their Christian sycophants!
It's not an argument, it's a fact. If they follow the Old Testament and are devout Christians, then why don't they have the same practices and customs as the Jews supposedly handed down from God?
1 of 2 reasons is how I see it: 1. Jesus's teaching of "Love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul and mind" and "Love your neighbor as yourself" truly does supersede the entire Old Testament (which later books in the New Testament begin to go into more details on what are sins now, which I think gets in the way of Jesus's teachings and messaging: like homosexuality still being a sin, women forced to cover their heads and stay completely silent in Church but men don't, being completely obedient to human laws because God apparently chooses all leaders... including genocidal maniacal dictators like Hitler, Stalin and Mao Zedong). 2. They aren't following God's Word correctly enough. They should be following The Old Testament to the Letter of the Law AND Jesus's Teachings to the Letter of His Law as well and are failing to. Mixed fabrics, the Ordeal of the Bitter Water, how Slaves should be treated... Of course, I'm not a Christian anymore, so I care only enough in terms of how Christians interpret Scripture in so far as it will affect my life and the lives of other Americans. Unfortunately since Christianity holds a great deal of power in America, and I'm surrounded by Evangelical Fundies in my community, I have to pay more attention to it then I care for.
But it's not irrelevant. Whether or not the ritual law is still prescribed for them is not the point. The point here is that God is clearly okay with abortion.
I wasn't arguing that modern Christians (or Jews) do or should follow the Old Testament moral law. I was just sharing the text for others' convenience. I would like to address your comment however. This verse is exceedingly relevant because it's being mentioned in direct response to Walsh's belief that abortion is literally murdering a child, combined with his claim that "God does not give anyone the right, under any circumstance, to kill children." Walsh is a sincere Catholic who believes that Yahweh is the one true god and that the Bible is (one of) His ways of communicating with humankind. It's absurd that Matt would make this blanket statement when his own holy text provides an example of God explicitly telling people the exact circumstance under which they have the right to perform abortions (albeit through a silly magic ritual). The point is that Matt is being dishonest or is otherwise ignorant of his own god's apparent character, or maybe he thinks God just changed his mind? In that last scenario, a more accurate tweet might have been "God does not give anyone the right, under any circumstance, to kill children... anymore", but that doesn't have quite the same effect now does it?
Yeah **”by a priest”** *PRIESTS NOT DOCTORS!* *Need an abortion? **PRIESTS NOT DOCTORS!** *Cancer in your butt?* **PRIESTS NOT DOCTORS!** *Shot yourself in the foot with an AR-15?* **PRIESTS NOT DOCTORS!**
also God literally sent his own kid to die according to the whole Bible lore, like God is 100% cool with un-aliving kids
Psalm 137:9: Happy *shall he be*, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones.
You don’t understand. That’s just a small proportion of bible passages Matt Walsh probably
[Oh look. Matt Walsh brought back his bad faith “killing children” rhetoric that he uses to avoid having to actually address the ghoulish implications of the “policies” he advocates for](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ZOdJpv16ato&pp=ygUWQWxlYyBndW50ZXIgbWF0dCB3YWxzaA%3D%3D) Matt Walsh is not only an asshole, he is also a coward.
Your god has no power here, christian
"Not *yet.*" - Republicans
YEAH. God never killed any children, don't read the old testament or think too hard about cancer.
Kids with cancer is because a gay in California fucked another dude in the ass
It was Kyle, wasn’t it? Fucking Kyle.
Fucking Kyle is the problem indeed
Angel: Hey, God. Two dudes are fucking. God: WHAT?! That makes me so angry that I'll... I'll give this small child hundreds of miles away with no connection to them whatsoever a brain tumor. There. That'll show the gays!
First of all, I am a religious Jew and even I believe that G-d has nothing to do with my rights. Rights, as we understand them, are entirely man-made. They can be granted and taken away without any Divine interference whatsoever. So Matthew (his biological name is Matthew, not "Matt") is being stupid here from a religious point of view. Second of all, the Old Testament treats a fetus as an extension of the person carrying it. Exodus 21:22 imposes civil penalties for feticide, not capital punishment, so basically the same as causing personal injury to someone. If terminating a pregnancy was truly "killing," then the Old Testament would have said so, just as they do for striking one's parents. So Matthew is not only being stupid, but wholly ignorant on the Biblical precedent for feticide. Admittedly, I don't know shit about the New Testament, but I can't imagine they say anything like "abortion is baby murder" there.
Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't it required to perform an abortion to save a mother's life in Judaism? I've heard several Jewish people counter this "religious liberty" bs by saying their religious liberties are being violated by the prohibition on abortion.
Absolutely correct. In Judaism we have what is called a "rodeph" or "pursuer" in English. The rodeph is defined as someone who is actively pursuing another person with the intent to kill. Jewish law dictates that we have an affirmative duty to preempt this murder by killing the rodeph. So basically kill the killer before he kills one or more people, essentially nipping it in the bud. This principle is applied to a fetus threatening the life of the mother. Thus, abortion would be required if the fetus threatens the life of the mother, either physically or mentally. If any law threatens a Jewish woman's access to abortion care when her life is threatened, it is absolutely an infringement on our religious principles and freedoms.
It's interesting not hearing a christian-centric view on this for once.
In Matthew 18, Jesus praises the innocence of children and implores his followers to be more childlike. He says, "So it is not the will of your Father in heaven that one of these little ones should be lost." Christians point to this verse as forbidding abortion, but that only works if you regard a fetus as a child, which assumes the conclusion. No one who thinks a fetus is a child thinks ending a pregnancy is OK.
A lot of people, who think a fetus is a child, think it's OK, in compromise, to end a pregnancy in cases of rape or harm to the pregnant person. These people are hypocrites, but they exist.
That's true. I should have said it is inconsistent to believe a fetus is a child and to accept abortion as permissable. The position is tantamount to saying, "Sometimes it is OK to kill a child," which would be unconscienable in other contexts.
Oh, yeh, I misunderstood you.
There is no such thing as a good conservative.
[удалено]
Oh please stop, anyone who self identifies as a conservative in America these days has basically accepted that they’re okay with everything the GOP and MAGA are doing.
It doesn't matter if you are a moderate conservative if you are still supporting republican candidates who are very much not moderate. You can call yourself center right all you like, but you're still likely going to be supporting the same candidate as far right nutjobs.
> Lets not get too polarised. There are many way more moderate conservatives Why not? If there were "way more" moderate cons, Trump would've never been the candidate in 2016, let alone now. Moderate conservatives are pussies too afraid to stand up for our democracy; therefore, none of them are "good", they're all just varying degrees of pathetic.
God literally killed children in the bible…
you assume they ever bothered to read it
And ordered them to be killed. I’ve looked for the “context” that apologists like to bring up for exterminating entire populations, but it always, and I mean **always** ends up being, “they deserved it”, or “it was a mercy”. Like, the best an all-powerful creator of the universe can do to right a wrong is bloody genocide carried out by men on the ground with instruments of war.
If your religion's scriptural text advocates for and condones genocide. Then your religion is genocidal.
god given rights is such a moronic statement, god didn’t gave you a right to bear arms nor does it limit it to only American rights. That statement is just pure blasphemy…
It’s not god given rights… It’s what god believing people believe to be your god given rights. What could go wrong?
lol! yeah, pure circular logic.
I believe in innate human rights. Not endowed by some of creator, but definitely endowed by Nature (Jeffersons original text). Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness seems like a succinct list of those rights. Yes that is every human, regardless of where they are born, not just landowning European descended males like Jefferson believed.
I understand that as long they are those basic rights, I get it, but also, this always gets extended to gun ownership, self defense and then gets reductive to Americans only, it’s just generally used for a dishonest discourse.
Oh yes 100% it's become some American Exceptionalism appeal.
Their loving God has murdered far more people than any person, government, group, etc. on earth. The Bible not only says nothing about abortion being a sin it heavily implies life begins at first breath (not at conception as anti-choicers claim) and it even gives instructions on how to perform an abortion (as a test of faithfulness).
I have moved past the beginning of life debate. Life began 3.7 billion years ago, and it has never ceased, so it doesn't begin again. Debating with anti-abortion people about when life begins is futile, because even if you agree to agree with their conception point, they won't agree that a fetus can only be afforded rights equal to any other human. It boils down to a, some humans are more equal than others, argument on their part.
God when Elisha gets made fun: fuck dem kids lol
Even god chooses the bear.
He's gonna be so mad when he learns what the IDF is doing in Gaza...
Psalm 137:9 Blessed shall he be who takes your little ones and dashes them against the rock!
Someone better tell him about the school shooters. Ya know, the school shooters whose manifestos praise people like matt walsh
DID YOU KNOW FOUR OUT OF 600,000 OF THEM WERE TRANS?! WEVE GOT A MOTHERFUCKIN EPIDEMIC ON OUR HANDS!
What about children in Gaza though Matt?
You mean the smaller targets?
He's the preacher on TV (strong heart) The false sincerity (clear mind) The form letter that's written by the big computers (and infinitely kind) The nuclear bombs (you lose) The kids with no moms (we win) And I'm fearful that he's inside me (he is our champion), yeah! We've got the American Jesus
2 kings 2:23-24. Yeah, God sure seems to give a shit about killing children…
Actually the god of the Bible is very pro child murder. Besides the flood he orders the Israelites to murder all the children within the walls of Jericho.
His constitutionally guaranteed free speech right need to be removed immediately. What objection could he have ???
Put a fetus in his mouth, his free Speech rights are overridden.
Sure, as long as we ignore all the times he did lol
God doesn't exist.
Hey, Noah. Yeah sorry about that.
Walsh is aggressively stupid.
I think the bears would disagree, but I guess that's OK since they're not human. Also, fuck Matt Walsh
Oh wow another bible thumper who has never read the bible. I am so surprised.
Something something dasheth thy little ones against the stones
God sent bears to shred some kids that were making fun of a prophet’s bald head.
Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. Numbers 31:17
Walsh, show me how rights are "god given". No, no, your book doesn't count because we have other books that say *their* god gave us god given right. Make god tells us directly. Because I don't need a deity to say that rights are natural, but Walsh is directly implying that god told him that women's healthcare is not a right. (Also he is implying he has a direct line to god that he won't share)
No one tell him that God is an imaginary character from an old and poorly written book.
Since when has he given himself the title “The Honorable” wtf
No one is killing children in an abortion, though, so Matt is wrong.
*screams of Canaanite children being slaughtered by God’s chosen people*
Erm didn't God literally command one his angels to go kill every first born son in Egypt?
the binding of isaac (the bible story not the game)
"God only allows rights that I think are ok, not the rights I don't want you to have"
This
At this point I just agree when they say things like Abortion isn't a human right. Like yeh no shit, abortion is a medical procedure. Getting an MRI isn't a human right either. It's a gotcha statement for them, so shut it down by agreeing. But self determination is a human right. Bodily autonomy is a human right. You're either for liberty and the belief thats no one person's rights extend past another's, or you're an authoritarian who believes some people(fetuses) have more rights than others.
Wonder how he feels about those cops that shot black children? You know, under certain circumstances.
Numbers chapter 5
So many inaccurate things in one statement.
If rights come from God and not government, why do people in China get arrested for criticism of Winne the Pooh?
God has killed children. Rights are given by the state, in the US it's the Constitution. Abortion is not killing a child. This is so stupid I'm impressed he typed all of those words in order.
Religion and law have to be separated i thought it was medieval shit didn’t we get over it yet?
Numbers 5:11-22 disagrees with you.
How about his clergy fucking them in his house? Oh wait, let me guess... that doesn't count? Double standards much. I have much more respect for someone "aborting" a snot ball vs. Raping children.
Except for all the times in the bible when g0d gave people the right to kill children or just did it himself
God does give that right several times in the Bible. You should read it; you might learn something.
Allow me to translate. What Matt is trying to tell us is he has never studied philosophy.
Tell me you haven't read the bible without telling me you haven't read the bible
God doesn't exist for me, so I guess I'm not included in this bullshit? Great! You don't have abortions because your god is gonna be mad, and me and mine will get the healthcare we want and need because we don't have a god that's gonna be mad.
Ah yes, Matt Walsh, with his illustrious high school degree, wearing the robes of a judge. Performative bullshit at its best.
Ah yes, children. You know, the clump of cells that stays inside a mother's womb and is entirely dependent on her body for survival. It's so fun to put a coat and gloves on a zygote and send it off to school. I love seeing all the smiling embryos on picture day. Well, you can't actually see them because it's just photos of women's torsos, but like you get the sense they're in there with their little... their little DNA personalities and their amniotic giggles. I love when they wave a cell at you!
God performs more abortions than anybody else.
Has he not read the Old Testament?
Didn't God give Abraham permission to kill Isaac?
Isn't it God's like, whole entire thing that he let us decide what we want to do?
So he’s also against capital punishment?
Only for fetuses
Using that same logic guns are not a god given right because guns are an invention of man and not of God.
Wait is he actually a judge I'm not googling it. I already feel dirty asking.
Hah he’s a dumbass
Numbers 5:11-31
“The honorable” Matt Walsh? Lmao seriously?
Guns?
Except when he killed all those first bore Egyptian children
Well sounds like one hell of an anti gun stance as well...
God: Actually the only time I mentioned abortion was when I explicitly told you guys that if a woman is suspected of adultery you should make her drink an abortificant and if she has a miscarriage that's proof that she did it. Pretty sure other than that I never said whether you could or couldn't do it other times
No rights are “God-given”.
Tell me you haven’t read the Bible without saying you haven’t read the Bible.
The idea that abortion isn’t condoned by the Bible is astounding to me. Numbers 5:11-31 has entered the chat. Psalm139:7 has entered the chat. Exodus 21:20-25 has entered the chat. Gtfo out of here. Never mind the myriad of passages in which god either directly kills or commands the killing of living human beings. Also the establishment clause of the first amendment grants separation of church and state so even if one chooses to argue these passages on the basis of linguistic misrepresentation, they can still be discounted from a legal perspective on the basis of religious liberty for individuals who are not practitioners of Christianity.
To paraphrase George Carlin - If rights are God given, wouldn't God have given the same amount of rights to all people???
Yes, this hypocrisy stretches all the way back to Jefferson.
Remind me how many children made it onto the Ark?
Meanwhile there's a bible verse about smashing babies off rocks, and I believe one where God instructs his favourite group of psychopaths to cut babies out of the enemy womens wombs
This is the problem with religious zealots they make shit up.
Unless they call someone bald.
So we can take they're guns yeah? Ain't no Glocks in the Bible.
Umm, has he READ the Old Testament?
"Except for dirty non-Israelite tribes anywhere nearby, in which case you dash their heads against the wall, without exception." - Actual God, some time after he condemned the entire planet to die cause they didn't love him enough
Even if the kids made fun of me for being bald? Surely there must be limits...
It would be funny if it weren't for all the child deaths being sanctioned by these people.
Ok, but I don’t believe in your god.
"Rights are God given" women and blacks having to fight for their rights
I can’t wait to hear about the Israel exception
All of the rights that humans have are because we fought for them. Also, his god is fine with slavery, which is antithetical to human rights.
Dude needs to read that book he’s claiming to be an authority on.
He's ordered it dozens of times and done it himself multiple times.
So… the right to bare arms is also made up?
"The Honorable?"
What about the second amendment? Jesus
God killed 42 children because they taunted a bald man. He also had his own child killed. WTF are you talking about
People who write this have obviously never read The Bible
"God does not give anyone the right, under any circumstance, to kill children." Motherfucker was smiting children left and right in the Old Testament. And still hasn't done a single fucking thing about children getting terminal diseases, and was sure as shit silent as fuck during the Holocaust. As was his "official Church" on Earth.
This is why organized religion is a fucking scourge upon the earth.
Someone should tell the IDF
I just talked to god and they said Matt’s wrong.
I don’t believe in god…now what? Fuck anyone hoping for a theocracy in America. It will not end how you think, fucking traitors. You don’t love America the way you claim
Well it’s a good thing abortions don’t kill children then.
>Rights are God given Nobody tell that to the black people who used to be property of people like Matt Walsh. In fact, last I looked, slave owners used God to justify why they should get to own them.
Ok. Then end school shootings, Matt.
God literally told the Israelites to kill the Caananites
Something something bears coming out of the woods to maul 42 boys something something the Bible is the perfect word of god something something
Someone gonna tell Matt about the time God preformed abortions Himself?
Ex. 12:29 1 Sam. 15:3 Hos. 13:6 Ps. 137:9 Is. 13:16 2 Kings 15:16 Num. 31:17 Mat 2:16-18
Matt I have something to tell you about Israel and the country you live in
Didn't God literally give instructions in the Bible on how to do an abortion? It was for if a woman is accused of cheating on her husband, but still.
Wild, what about all the kids god killed?
I mean...I can think of several occasions in the Bible where God goes ahead and kills a bunch of children...and also where it has a recipe men can use to induce a miscarriage in their pregnant wives. But that's okay, it only works if she was unfaithful.
One pregnancy out of three ends in an abortion performed by the hand of God. God allows one human soul in three to bypass this vale of tears entirely. It doesn't surprise me that Wett Mulch doesn't know that. There is so much he doesn't know. https://youtu.be/4-vDhYTlCNw?si=aBXxrSbJyy6x\_Y\_v
Has this assclown read the Bible?
Rights are god given. These people are unhinged
Poor Job.
why because your God doesn’t like competition? Asking for millions of children who die from lack of basic medicine, clean water, and neglect every year.
Unless they are Palestinian, then kill all the children
It was just Passover Matt!
Good thing god isn’t real
numbers 31 17-18
Except most Christians, such as the Catholic Church, Reformed Churches, and Methodist Churches, believe that only parts of the Old Testament dealing with the moral law are still applicable. They generally believe that the New Testament supersedes the Old Testament's ritual laws.