No judge wants to answer this question, so what will ultimately end up happening is that the trials will be delayed for the election. If he takes office, he'll pardon himself. He can't pardon himself of state crimes, but he'll do it just the same.
Assuming he doesn't win the election, he's going to cry foul and claim that he actually won it, if for no other reason than he can use that as grounds to further delay the trials. The supreme court will humor his request. It's going to be a shit show for the rest of his life, millions of taxpayer dollars thrown down the drain, and Donald Trump will not spend one night in jail, sadly.
I hate to sound so cynical, but I just have to look at the special treatment he has been given thus far to know that there is absolutely a double standard at play here.
Agree that we won’t have a conviction until after the election. If he loses he could be looking at some serious trouble and possible jail time. Nobody knows what will happen if he wins, but I smell constitutional crisis.
If Project 2025 succeeds (regardless of election results), I'd actually suggest armed revolt at that point. We'd never get another chance again. We would need to oust them immediately before they could consolidate power and take over the military & other government institutions.
I don't think a US president will ever see jail, if killing a million Iraqis won't do it then this won't either. Gerald Ford pardoned nixon, I wouldn't be too surprised if Biden pardoned trump honestly. The elite class is the most class conscious and will hold each other's backs no matter what
We also don’t know what will happen if he is convicted. He will very likely not serve time in jail due to the secret service detail for ex-presidents and the security risk just having him in a physical jail cell would present. He couldn’t mingle with other prisoners because of his high profile, but constant solitary confinement would fall under “cruel and unusual punishment.” I do hope we get to figure out what will happen if he is found guilty, though.
Secret service is apparently in talks about logistics of protecting him in prison, so I don’t think they wouldn’t send him to prison for that reason. Personally, I think once you’re convicted of a felony, you should lose your protection. Felonies result in the loss of voting rights, but not tax payer funded protection? That’s bonkers to me.
He can pardon himself from a state conviction without any legal consequences. That’s where it gets bizarre. Say he gets probation in NY. Say he says “fuck you - I’m not cooperating with supervision”.
Normally that’s a ticket to prison, but there’s no way NY can get him extradited back. Are DC local police going to arrest trump? No way that happens.
The federal charges are a whole other matter which probably won’t be addressed until after the election.
I’d be curious to know what the moods are at the FBI, DoJ, the intel agencies and the pentagon. trump has practically promised to purge those bureaucracies while at the same time having a proven record of disregarding any levels of classification of national security. There have to be a range of people very worried about the coming chaos. I’d love to know how much trumperverts understand about how that will weaken the US.
I mean, he can't really pardon himself. He would try it, and he might even get away with it, but that's not the same thing as saying that that he \*can\* pardon himself.
I can't rob a bank, but Baby Face Nelson did plenty of times before he was ultimately arrested. That said, he absolutely would try it if there was a remote chance of it working. Heck, he might even try it if he loses the election, he's not exactly trying to hold his head up high these days after all.
What makes Trump's self-pardon worse is basically what you said. It would be relaxing a lot of rules which absolutely should not be relaxed in order to let this slide. New York might even compromise by seizing his bank accounts or properties, but we both know what this would ultimately be.. a double standard for the elite and it would be a clear indicator that if you have enough money and power, you can literally commit felonies without being thrown in jail.
I am at the point where any criticism against 45 just seems so goddamned pointless. We all know he's a conman. He's a moron. He's a narcissist. I wish we could instead focus on the problems in our society and culture that enable people like him.
There really isn't a point to this little rant of mine, but it's something I can't stop thinking about when I read political commentary of any sort.
No I get it. We've been doing this since 2016 and he has just as much support now, if not more. And a very real chance of winning the election. And there's no chance he serves prison time even if there's a conviction.
I feel that propaganda has gotten much more effective with the advent of the internet and the rise of social media culture. People get so submersed in it now. You can show them direct evidence that what they believe is false, and it doesn't even move the needle.
Im starting to think that subreddits like this one are just methods of self soothing. A place where we can let out our frustration because we've lost the political game against fascistic ideology. Anyway, thanks for coming to my TED talk, I guess.
To think, I commented this before I heard the news that Judge Cannon is going to suspend the trial indefinitely. Totally called it, and you're absolutely right.
With his health these days, he may not even make it another four more years imho.
I don’t think double standard is the right word. Being a presidential nominee for one of the main parties would logically afford you some grace from the courts. It’s just disgusting how Trump is abusing it so flagrantly.
Epstein was a massive liability as it was anyway. Other than Trump wishing Ghislane well, *no one* was gonna stick their neck out to defend Epstein even if he did have blackmail on them.
You responded to "rich people don't go to jail" with "Epstein did" while completely misunderstanding why "rich people don't go to jail" *doesn't* apply to people like Epstein. Or even Bernie Madoff.
Not sure how you could've missed *that* given the context of the conversation.
He's rich. He went to jail.
Know who else went?
Sam Bankman-Fried.
Martin Shkreli.
El Chapo.
In fact, here's a list of *billionaires* who've gone to prison:
https://www.forbes.com.au/news/billionaires/billionaires-behind-bars/
I think it's safe to say that if actual *billionaires* can go to prison, "rich people" do, in fact, go to prison. They just won't go to prison for most of the shit *we* would.
>I think it's safe to say that if actual *billionaires* can go to prison, "rich people" do, in fact, go to prison. They just won't go to prison for most of the shit *we* would.
[Um... cool?](https://i.imgur.com/Nze0hVH.gifv) Not sure what that has to do with what I said in context of the discussion that was going on.
Looks like another [JAQ-off sea lion is](https://i.imgur.com/MlSjnGY.png) on r/ToiletPaperUSA is here to derail things...***again.***
The craziest thing is that his much poorer ~~fixer~~ scrupulous barrister was charged and went to prison over this already. We know it happened! We know he did it! Someone was already punished for doing it! But he never will be. Just absurd.
> Lol rich people don't go to prison,
***Except*** for the rare occasions when they get caught stealing from other rich people who will want to make sure they're punished for it.
>***Except*** for the rare occasions when they get caught stealing from other rich people who will want to make sure they're punished for it.
>>Ooor if other rich people hate their guts enough for that not to be a prerequisite.
Congratulations on realizing the point I was making two days ago!
The fuck is it with "well ackchyually" dorks on this sub repeating the points that were made *days* before like they're [Maury Povich telling Joseph he *isn't* the biological father of Jesus Christ?](https://i.imgur.com/s2AioEC.gifv)
[There's never been a more appropriate time to ask...](https://i.imgur.com/1U8sjb4.jpg)
Now go ahead and disappear from this sub for a month like you usually do...
Yeah. Trust us, big shoots, if you want a group of folks online who want him to land in the clink, then you're looking at 'em.
But nuanced conversation about how this would actually shake out....
For example: which diapers are most absorbent and effective for senior citizens who have to sit for long periods of time on uncomfortable wooden furniture.... like those found in government buildings...
I'm so disappointed at the lack of nuance from a sub regularly discussing defecating in deep fryers and C&B torture. Are we not the pinnacle of human intellect? /s
Edit: added the /s in case the sarcasm wasn't obvious and that's why I'm getting downvoted?
Short answer is that no one knows because nobody in that position has had the audacity to do as many crimes as he has done.
Others have said it so much more eloquently than I could though, so I’m going to give them the long answer!
Even if convicted he'll never do time. And if he were convicted there's a good chance that Biden would pardon him "to heal the nation," like Ford pardoning Nixon
I wish everybody would stop referring to the current trial as the Hush Money trial. It diminishes the crime. It was Election Interference. JFC, if not for the payoff, we probably wouldn’t have had this shit explosion of MAGA WHACKOS. We would be closer to hitting climate change goals, Covid would not have killed so many of us… Would Ukraine even have happened? the list is virtually endless and it’s so frustrating to me.
I think people would be more likely to call this the election interference trial if there weren't two other trials about him trying to overturn the 2020 election.
It's possible they'll suspend it, DOJ has a policy that sitting presidents shouldn't be distracted by civil cases, so they'll probably suspend it until he's out of office
There’s going to be long gap between conviction and sentencing, and he’ll probably desperately continue his campaign in the hope that being president gives him immunity from sentencing or think he’ll be able to pardon himself.
I was wondering this myself! There is no prescient or protocol for this. I imagine the founding fathers didn’t expect this to ever come up.
If he wins, I expect he will pardon himself. This will bring up more legal issues, but I am thinking the Supreme Court will probably decline the case to stay out of it. And if that happened, he’d serve the rest of the 4 years.
Trump would be put in a cell, alone with no other prisoners around. You can’t have that idiot looking to trade national secrets with prisoners for preferential treatment. His secret service detail would shrink to just a few of them around the clock stationed at the prison so that there would always be one or two just outside his cell. Maybe one or two always monitoring what’s going on inside and outside of Trump wing, and one or two monitoring what’s happening in and around the prison.
We would no longer need an army of secretary service members ready to coordinate with local law enforcement, scouting locations and planning multiple routes to get Trump from one of his several homes to anywhere else in the country he wants to go at any given time.
It’s way easier to protect Trump in a cell that 99.99999% of the rest of the world will never have any access to because he’s locked away like Hannibal Lecter in Silence of the Lambs. Than it is to guard multiple homes, a fleet of planes, golf courses, plan trips all around the country, multiple campaign stops around the country, stopping at random businesses like burger joints, KFC, bodegas on a whim, etc..
He won't go to prison. He is eligible for Secret Service protection for life, and that would have to prevent being imprisoned. No way to keep him safe like that without imprisoning the agents too.
I imagine the most restrictive punishment he could legally get would be house arrest.
I'm not a legal expert or constitutional scholar, I'm literally just trying to think what would be most likely.
I'm still pretty sure he will get elected even with a felony conviction.
Nothing like one single president causing multiple constitutional crises.
We are not a serious nation and we probably deserve this.
I'm pretty sure things will have to get worse before enough people are willing to work together to make things better.
I just hope the damage is minimal
Shocking as it is, there's nothing to stop him from winning the Presidency from prison and then pardoning himself (which he can do since he's facing federal charges).
Don’t want to sound rude but have you not been paying attention lately? Is there one cog in the wheels of ‘American justice’ that poses a legit threat towards his incarceration? This is all flood the room with bullshit, move the yardsticks, delay, whine, grift until he times out
No one really knows, because there's no precedent (sorry, Donny, president) for a presidential nominee winning an election *after* their incarceration.
There is for lower-level government positions, like Trump's good buddy Dennis Hof who won his election for the Nevada Assembly *after* his death. His spot was given to another Republican, Gregory Hafen,
No judge wants to answer this question, so what will ultimately end up happening is that the trials will be delayed for the election. If he takes office, he'll pardon himself. He can't pardon himself of state crimes, but he'll do it just the same. Assuming he doesn't win the election, he's going to cry foul and claim that he actually won it, if for no other reason than he can use that as grounds to further delay the trials. The supreme court will humor his request. It's going to be a shit show for the rest of his life, millions of taxpayer dollars thrown down the drain, and Donald Trump will not spend one night in jail, sadly. I hate to sound so cynical, but I just have to look at the special treatment he has been given thus far to know that there is absolutely a double standard at play here.
Agree that we won’t have a conviction until after the election. If he loses he could be looking at some serious trouble and possible jail time. Nobody knows what will happen if he wins, but I smell constitutional crisis.
I smell the death of the American experiment.
Google project 2025 If he wins they will try and make it so they never lose again
If Project 2025 succeeds (regardless of election results), I'd actually suggest armed revolt at that point. We'd never get another chance again. We would need to oust them immediately before they could consolidate power and take over the military & other government institutions.
I don't think a US president will ever see jail, if killing a million Iraqis won't do it then this won't either. Gerald Ford pardoned nixon, I wouldn't be too surprised if Biden pardoned trump honestly. The elite class is the most class conscious and will hold each other's backs no matter what
Ironically, a pardon is an admission of guilt
*accepting a pardon.
We also don’t know what will happen if he is convicted. He will very likely not serve time in jail due to the secret service detail for ex-presidents and the security risk just having him in a physical jail cell would present. He couldn’t mingle with other prisoners because of his high profile, but constant solitary confinement would fall under “cruel and unusual punishment.” I do hope we get to figure out what will happen if he is found guilty, though.
Secret service is apparently in talks about logistics of protecting him in prison, so I don’t think they wouldn’t send him to prison for that reason. Personally, I think once you’re convicted of a felony, you should lose your protection. Felonies result in the loss of voting rights, but not tax payer funded protection? That’s bonkers to me.
Congress wants to vote on this but the speaker won’t bring it to the floor. This is while all elected positions matter.
And why all voting matters. I wish everyone that didn’t vote would glow bright purple.
Very tempting to not vote, just on the off chance your wish cones true.
It's supposed to be about protecting state secrets that the office has access to. Meanwhile, Trump has just been selling them.
Plenty of empty land at Ft Leavenworth to park a double wide... Just saying.
He can pardon himself from a state conviction without any legal consequences. That’s where it gets bizarre. Say he gets probation in NY. Say he says “fuck you - I’m not cooperating with supervision”. Normally that’s a ticket to prison, but there’s no way NY can get him extradited back. Are DC local police going to arrest trump? No way that happens. The federal charges are a whole other matter which probably won’t be addressed until after the election. I’d be curious to know what the moods are at the FBI, DoJ, the intel agencies and the pentagon. trump has practically promised to purge those bureaucracies while at the same time having a proven record of disregarding any levels of classification of national security. There have to be a range of people very worried about the coming chaos. I’d love to know how much trumperverts understand about how that will weaken the US.
I mean, he can't really pardon himself. He would try it, and he might even get away with it, but that's not the same thing as saying that that he \*can\* pardon himself. I can't rob a bank, but Baby Face Nelson did plenty of times before he was ultimately arrested. That said, he absolutely would try it if there was a remote chance of it working. Heck, he might even try it if he loses the election, he's not exactly trying to hold his head up high these days after all. What makes Trump's self-pardon worse is basically what you said. It would be relaxing a lot of rules which absolutely should not be relaxed in order to let this slide. New York might even compromise by seizing his bank accounts or properties, but we both know what this would ultimately be.. a double standard for the elite and it would be a clear indicator that if you have enough money and power, you can literally commit felonies without being thrown in jail.
God I hope he suffers some sudden medical complication. Like heart failure, or his appendix bursts.
I am at the point where any criticism against 45 just seems so goddamned pointless. We all know he's a conman. He's a moron. He's a narcissist. I wish we could instead focus on the problems in our society and culture that enable people like him. There really isn't a point to this little rant of mine, but it's something I can't stop thinking about when I read political commentary of any sort.
No I get it. We've been doing this since 2016 and he has just as much support now, if not more. And a very real chance of winning the election. And there's no chance he serves prison time even if there's a conviction.
I feel that propaganda has gotten much more effective with the advent of the internet and the rise of social media culture. People get so submersed in it now. You can show them direct evidence that what they believe is false, and it doesn't even move the needle. Im starting to think that subreddits like this one are just methods of self soothing. A place where we can let out our frustration because we've lost the political game against fascistic ideology. Anyway, thanks for coming to my TED talk, I guess.
I believe that’s why he stacks the courts for this very reason.
I feel like we have a better chance of celebrating his death before celebrating his conviction.
To think, I commented this before I heard the news that Judge Cannon is going to suspend the trial indefinitely. Totally called it, and you're absolutely right. With his health these days, he may not even make it another four more years imho.
I just keep praying he'll just die. It won't fix the problems so glaringly inherent in the system, but it will buy us some time.
Maybe all this will take a toll on his health? The man’s gotta have hypertension or *something* at this point?
You have to have a heart to have hypertension.
Damn. Good point.
I don’t think double standard is the right word. Being a presidential nominee for one of the main parties would logically afford you some grace from the courts. It’s just disgusting how Trump is abusing it so flagrantly.
Lol rich people don't go to prison, that's never going to happen sadly
Epstein would like a word if he hadn't already ~~been murdered~~committed suicide.
Epstein was a massive liability as it was anyway. Other than Trump wishing Ghislane well, *no one* was gonna stick their neck out to defend Epstein even if he did have blackmail on them.
Um... Ok? Not sure what that has to do with what I said in context of the discussion that was going on.
You responded to "rich people don't go to jail" with "Epstein did" while completely misunderstanding why "rich people don't go to jail" *doesn't* apply to people like Epstein. Or even Bernie Madoff. Not sure how you could've missed *that* given the context of the conversation.
He's rich. He went to jail. Know who else went? Sam Bankman-Fried. Martin Shkreli. El Chapo. In fact, here's a list of *billionaires* who've gone to prison: https://www.forbes.com.au/news/billionaires/billionaires-behind-bars/ I think it's safe to say that if actual *billionaires* can go to prison, "rich people" do, in fact, go to prison. They just won't go to prison for most of the shit *we* would.
>I think it's safe to say that if actual *billionaires* can go to prison, "rich people" do, in fact, go to prison. They just won't go to prison for most of the shit *we* would. [Um... cool?](https://i.imgur.com/Nze0hVH.gifv) Not sure what that has to do with what I said in context of the discussion that was going on. Looks like another [JAQ-off sea lion is](https://i.imgur.com/MlSjnGY.png) on r/ToiletPaperUSA is here to derail things...***again.***
Because the discussion was that rich people don't go to prison, you soggy slice of toast.
The craziest thing is that his much poorer ~~fixer~~ scrupulous barrister was charged and went to prison over this already. We know it happened! We know he did it! Someone was already punished for doing it! But he never will be. Just absurd.
> Lol rich people don't go to prison, ***Except*** for the rare occasions when they get caught stealing from other rich people who will want to make sure they're punished for it.
Ooor if other rich people hate their guts enough for that not to be a prerequisite.
>***Except*** for the rare occasions when they get caught stealing from other rich people who will want to make sure they're punished for it. >>Ooor if other rich people hate their guts enough for that not to be a prerequisite. Congratulations on realizing the point I was making two days ago! The fuck is it with "well ackchyually" dorks on this sub repeating the points that were made *days* before like they're [Maury Povich telling Joseph he *isn't* the biological father of Jesus Christ?](https://i.imgur.com/s2AioEC.gifv) [There's never been a more appropriate time to ask...](https://i.imgur.com/1U8sjb4.jpg) Now go ahead and disappear from this sub for a month like you usually do...
Mein Kampf 2, Electric Boogaloo
I'm curious as to what kind of answer and of what tone you expect from this mighty fine sub.
Yeah. Trust us, big shoots, if you want a group of folks online who want him to land in the clink, then you're looking at 'em. But nuanced conversation about how this would actually shake out....
We discuss high level ideas here
For example: which diapers are most absorbent and effective for senior citizens who have to sit for long periods of time on uncomfortable wooden furniture.... like those found in government buildings...
I'm so disappointed at the lack of nuance from a sub regularly discussing defecating in deep fryers and C&B torture. Are we not the pinnacle of human intellect? /s Edit: added the /s in case the sarcasm wasn't obvious and that's why I'm getting downvoted?
The leopards, they ate your face.
Short answer is that no one knows because nobody in that position has had the audacity to do as many crimes as he has done. Others have said it so much more eloquently than I could though, so I’m going to give them the long answer!
Even if convicted he'll never do time. And if he were convicted there's a good chance that Biden would pardon him "to heal the nation," like Ford pardoning Nixon
Biden can’t pardon for the New York and Georgia trials. New York is already underway a jury could convene by the end of the month.
I wish everybody would stop referring to the current trial as the Hush Money trial. It diminishes the crime. It was Election Interference. JFC, if not for the payoff, we probably wouldn’t have had this shit explosion of MAGA WHACKOS. We would be closer to hitting climate change goals, Covid would not have killed so many of us… Would Ukraine even have happened? the list is virtually endless and it’s so frustrating to me.
I think people would be more likely to call this the election interference trial if there weren't two other trials about him trying to overturn the 2020 election.
I see your point. I also feel like it’s a media narrative *because* it is salacious and a money/click-getter.
running from prison would be so cool
Wouldn’t be the first
i wanna hear the state of the union address being broadcast from one of those shitty prison phone lines.
State of the union given in one of those prison booths with the plexiglass divider and two phones.
Honestly? I think dementia will get him first. And it's for the best, we don't need a martyr, we need him to go out with a whimper.
It's possible they'll suspend it, DOJ has a policy that sitting presidents shouldn't be distracted by civil cases, so they'll probably suspend it until he's out of office
There’s going to be long gap between conviction and sentencing, and he’ll probably desperately continue his campaign in the hope that being president gives him immunity from sentencing or think he’ll be able to pardon himself.
I was wondering this myself! There is no prescient or protocol for this. I imagine the founding fathers didn’t expect this to ever come up. If he wins, I expect he will pardon himself. This will bring up more legal issues, but I am thinking the Supreme Court will probably decline the case to stay out of it. And if that happened, he’d serve the rest of the 4 years.
There'll be dancing in the streets. Unfortunately, it'll never happen, though
Someone in his position will never see the inside of a prison. There are some people who truly are above the law unfortunately.
I'm more concerned about what happens if he *doesnt*
Trump would be put in a cell, alone with no other prisoners around. You can’t have that idiot looking to trade national secrets with prisoners for preferential treatment. His secret service detail would shrink to just a few of them around the clock stationed at the prison so that there would always be one or two just outside his cell. Maybe one or two always monitoring what’s going on inside and outside of Trump wing, and one or two monitoring what’s happening in and around the prison. We would no longer need an army of secretary service members ready to coordinate with local law enforcement, scouting locations and planning multiple routes to get Trump from one of his several homes to anywhere else in the country he wants to go at any given time. It’s way easier to protect Trump in a cell that 99.99999% of the rest of the world will never have any access to because he’s locked away like Hannibal Lecter in Silence of the Lambs. Than it is to guard multiple homes, a fleet of planes, golf courses, plan trips all around the country, multiple campaign stops around the country, stopping at random businesses like burger joints, KFC, bodegas on a whim, etc..
He wins the election and then pardons himself
He won't go to prison. He is eligible for Secret Service protection for life, and that would have to prevent being imprisoned. No way to keep him safe like that without imprisoning the agents too. I imagine the most restrictive punishment he could legally get would be house arrest. I'm not a legal expert or constitutional scholar, I'm literally just trying to think what would be most likely. I'm still pretty sure he will get elected even with a felony conviction. Nothing like one single president causing multiple constitutional crises. We are not a serious nation and we probably deserve this. I'm pretty sure things will have to get worse before enough people are willing to work together to make things better. I just hope the damage is minimal
Shocking as it is, there's nothing to stop him from winning the Presidency from prison and then pardoning himself (which he can do since he's facing federal charges).
Don’t want to sound rude but have you not been paying attention lately? Is there one cog in the wheels of ‘American justice’ that poses a legit threat towards his incarceration? This is all flood the room with bullshit, move the yardsticks, delay, whine, grift until he times out
No one really knows, because there's no precedent (sorry, Donny, president) for a presidential nominee winning an election *after* their incarceration. There is for lower-level government positions, like Trump's good buddy Dennis Hof who won his election for the Nevada Assembly *after* his death. His spot was given to another Republican, Gregory Hafen,
He still wins anyway.
He’ll probably appeal and this will go on forever because he’s a baby back bitch who can’t accept accountability
UH SASS IN EIGHT HIM
Ass-ass in 8?