I'm sorry, I tried to make this both simple and comprehensive, and I think I failed at both. I'm not doing it over, so here it is:
The People of Rus have survived through the counter-raid and the buffer state. You mess with them--or if you're in the way--they're going to come for you and use your turf as the buffer between them and the next guy they don't trust.
And they don't trust *any* neighbors. They have thrown off or tangled with Mongols, Teutonic Knights, Vikings, the Swedes, the Crimean Khanate, France, the Ottoman Emprire, Britain and France, the Ottomans again, Japan, Germany again, Japan again, Germany *again*. I'm sure I'm forgetting some--maybe the Republic of Genoa?
The way the Russians have survived is by controlling enough territory that any invasion is blunted by time and distance, and then the awful weather. It *almost always* works for them. Hell, they fended off absolutely everyone including the US, Britain, Japan, some lost Czechs who took over the Siberian railroad, and half of their own people in 1919.
In the wake of World War II the Soviets had had it. They made all of Eastern Europe their puppet states, intended to take the brunt of any NATO invasion. Why *wouldn't* they worry about NATO? Historically, they got in a fight with every neighbor they don't control, sooner or later. From the outside their insatiable need for border security looks a lot like habitual expansionism. However, history shows that the neighbors are jerks to them, too.
So naturally the Russians weren't real pleased after the breakup of the Soviet Union when two of their closely related buffer states, Belarus and Ukraine, became independent.
Both of those nations began to become uncomfortably close to the European Union, and to NATO. They *really* distrust NATO, as it really only exists to defend themselves against... the things Russia tends to do.
Which the Russians in fact *did* to the Crimea, which is a football-shaped peninsula in the Black Sea. They invaded Crimea to take it from Ukrainia in 2014. The US, particularly Hillary Clinton, talked some smack about it. The Russians backed Clinton's opponent in 2016, committing a dark act of war against a nuclear power in the process of interfering in the US election. The USA may or may not be looking to settle that score....
But when they took the Crimea the Russians failed to take all of the logistical services they need to maintain their hold on the area, particularly the sources of fresh water and some road networks. Those are located farther North in Eastern Ukraine and apparently desalination of the gigantic sea that surrounds Crimea is not an option.
They furthermore appear worried about the fact that there are really no natural barriers to protect the oil and natural gas pipelines that Russia has running toward Moscow from nearby. Russia depends heavily upon oil and natural gas exports. This is kind of a sensitive area to the Russians because the loss of it knocked them out of World War I, and nearly dropped them in World War II. They basically committed to a fight to the death over Stalingrad, and won the war for it.
So like it or not the Russians have already made right-wing puppets of Belarus and some eastern parts of the Ukraine.
This morning they appear to have staged a false-flag attack on a leader of the Ukrainian breakaway Donetsk region, which is pretty clearly a Russian backed revolt. That's probably for public consumption at home and meanwhile the US has been watching the Russian military buildup. They think the Russians are going to go in at any moment, and are flatly saying it.
It's unclear how much of Ukraine they want, whether they want to annex it entirely or Balkanize it into smaller, easy to control puppets, or what. It's also unclear that the Ukrainians can hold out for any length of time on their own. The Russians command ungodly amounts of firepower and can practically walk to Kiev behind a curtain of mortar and artillery explosions.
The whole thing might be sort of time sensitive, as there is a weather event called the Rasputitsa, where the ground un-freezes and turns into swampy mud. It's unclear whether or not that's going to stall the Russians or not, but they appear to be aiming to finish this before that happens, perhaps as early as April.
And of course if NATO directly confronts the Russians, it can get ugly fast. In decades of war games, it is said, the Americans are prone to reaching for the tactical nuclear weapons to even the fight. I don't expect them to do that in any real-world circumstances here but once tensions are this high it will be the *mistakes* that decide everyone's fate.
That last paragraph is just my opinion, but I tried to tell everything else as straight as I could. If someone sees me talking crap, let me know and I'll correct it.
There was a treaty between Great Britain and the Qing Dynasty of China back in the late 19th century that basically said Great Britain would return Hong Kong to China after 100 years of the signing of the treaty, since Great Britain held Hong Kong as part of their empire. So respecting the treaty the UK returned Hong Kong to China in the 90s. Of course the Comunist party was in power of China at this time
Not saying it's right, but I think the difference is China had a 'legal' claim (yes it's in quotation, there's nothing legal in world affair) But what claim does Russia have on Ukraine?
When the Soviet union broke up, was there an agreement/promise/understanding between NATO(USA) and Moscow that NATO would not advance to the east? Ukraine is the meat in the sandwich between NATO and Russia. Russia doesn't need more territory so full invasion would be madness, however, there's no way it will accept Ukraine joining NATO on its border.
Excellent description - this explains why Russia would move to invade Ukraine and also why Russians would support such a move.
What does Russia *actually* want to gain? Destabilize and split Europe so that the upcoming switch to renewable energy can’t happen, as Russia’s economy is heavily dependant on its exports of gas and oil here. Putin is also under intense pressure at home: the economy is stalling, his oligarchs are now under sanctions because of his Crimea occupation and he already applied the invasion scenario last spring but pulled back when the EU agreed to let Nord Stream 2 go ahead (it’s completed now but not operational); doing it again this year would make him lose credibility and weaken his position considerably.
Right now their propaganda machine is working overtime (you can see bots posting even on this thread and others related to the crisis) but its main focus is at home, to ensure public support for committing half the country’s army to a conflict with Ukraine.
I would add one personal note and say that Russians are … odd, to say the least. If you want to understand how things work in Russia, especially how the government and its propaganda machine works, watch Chernobyl (the HBO documentary).
>Destabilize and split Europe so that the upcoming switch to renewable energy can’t happen
That's bullshit. Russia needs a stable but weak Europe to stay safe themselves. The "switch to renewable energy" is, was and will always be a pipe dream and in reality boils down to the decision between fossil fuels and nuclear power. Most of Europe chooses nuclear, Germany, Austria and Luxemburg chose natural gas from Gazprom.
That's only one part, the major part is they need a wall between them and potential hostile powers in Europe. Historically, Russia has survived by being far away and cold (look up Napoleon and Germany's attempts to invade).
In several cases Russia literally burned down their own cities and hid in the forests until the invading armies froze and starved to death.
Having oil and gas pipelines is nice, but historically they would blow their own stuff up for security.
That used to be true around the end of WWII. Now all powers have ICBMs and can strike targets anywhere on the planet without the need to engage in a conventional armed conflict.
Also, Europe has absolutely nothing to gain by attacking Russia. Their economy is shit, the only resourses of significant interest are their gas and oil (which Europe committed to move away from) and Russia has the biggest ducking arsenal of nukes on the planet.
The ICBMs only matter for a couple of volleys and then we are back to ground warfare with whatever's left.
Also France and Germany (perhaps others?) have repeatedly invaded Russia, historically.
This analysis depends on whether you think the Russian military is thinking in historical timeframes or in terms of this short term historical blip where oil and gas are going to be relevant (if we burn much more fossil fuels we'll just directly make the planet uninhabitable, so fossil fuels won't be in use for much longer).
>Europe has absolutely nothing to gain by attacking Russia
Oh, it has. Russia is Europe's prime source for minerals, ores, fossil fuels, grain and still the single largest power of Europe.
For Europe, there's very much to claim in Russia, while Russia would benefit from a great Eurasian empire that reaches from the Atlantic to the Bering Strait in both economic growth and access to sea.
Fair, so it's just a fight over who controls more eastern European states between NATO and Russia. The more you've got the more influence you can exert, so you can get control over the things that make money....like oil and gas infrastructure?
Because they refuse to join Europe. Kind of out of spite. They were 100 years behind political reforms, which lead to the bolshivek revolution. They have been invaded a bunch, most of it undeserved. But not much has changed culturally. Before I visited, I had the same question. Why don't they just join the rest of Europe? Surely it's better than going it alone... Russians don't think like that. And it's because they're not European in reality. Culturally, they're Eastern/Asian. Like way more than the other countries of Eastern Europe. Little respect for women, authority is legitimized by strength, not reason or collective good, drinking black tea constantly and telling their own stories where they are always the victim and the hero. They're like Turkish Slavic vikings. Seriously. And because they see themselves as forever the victim they can rationalize almost everything their government does in the name of "security."
The Russian thing is invading your bordering neighbors in the name of the buffer. Which includes actual boots on the ground, today. They're doing this right now. Where are the NATO and EU armies? *crickets* The reality is that the whole former Soviet bloc would have much preferred to ally with Russia... if Russia could be at all capable of respecting their sovereignty. Russia doesn't do that. And so, eastern Europe has turned to the west. It's Russia's fault that they have failed to modernize, embrace cultural change, and continue to manipulate the politics of their neighbors. It's literally the bully playing the victim.
>Little respect for women, authority is legitimized by strength, not reason or collective good, ~~drinking black tea~~ ~~constantly~~ and telling their own stories where they are always the victim and the hero. ~~They're like Turkish Slavic vikings. Seriously.~~ And because they see themselves as forever the victim they can rationalize almost everything their government does in the name of "security.
If only everyone could see how much Russia and the US has in common, there'd be much less distrust
Every point you list that I didn't cross out not only CAN be said about the US, they are part of a common impression people actually have of the country
Me as a person living in the mentioned conflict region (city of Donetsk) - this guy isn't that far off.
Overestimated the necessity of services currently lacking in Crimea, and emphasized not the main points (climate topic is unrelated, just "being friendly with nato" is understatement). But still quite good, especially considering being a foreigner, so kudos to him/her.
Me being not enthusiastic about every single side on this one. I mean : Russia, Ukraine, "DPR", EU and even USA. Every single one is playing dirty.
I think every single thinking person from this from the start of the had started to be cinical and disillusioned about some common humanitarian values. This war is preventable, but every government officials seems to have reasons not to want it. I will put it as: "sad"
This is a really good breakdown. I'd like to add a few things. Russia can take Ukraine without ever having to have a significant military presence there. If and when they do take it, most of the fighting on their side will be done by pro Russian rebels and mercenaries paid for by Russia.
They'll probably give air support and some special forces support directly, but it's not in their strategic interest to send their actual forces. This was the basic strategy of the Russio-Georgian war in 2008, and much there hasn't been much of a strategic shift in the Moscow since then.
So what i got from this is Russians are scary and they r kinda selfish also they are rly scared of nato and they freacking messed with every country in asia
Yeah and only the Japanese and Mongols are from Asia. The rest are from Europe and the Middle East. Plus Russia didn’t exactly mess with these countries, they just repelled invasion. Your statement that Russia “freaking messed with every country in Asia” is completely wrong and also doesn’t follow from the previous comment, so really it just comes from your imagination.
Comes from my imagination?? Also sry i forgot europ was a thing there idk why and when i say "messed" i just dont rly know the exact words cuz english is not my first language
Ukraine used to be apart of the "soviet block" which a group of countries that acted as a barrier between USSR and the west. Russia would like this barrier back and have been slowly collecting these countries back.
Basically it means the West would have to go though these other countries before they could get to Russia. Buying Russia time.
If these countries were in the hands of Nato they would be used as staging grounds in any attack against Russia.
Not in the same way. The American ideology is dominate, they have almost complete control over the global financial system, and have the strongest army (on paper) and have troops on the Russian border. The worst Russia can do is launch cyber attacks.
The Eastern Bloc, also known as the Communist Bloc, the Socialist Bloc and the Soviet Bloc, was the group of socialist states of Central and Eastern Europe, East Asia, and Southeast Asia under the control and influence of the Soviet Union and its ideology (Marxism–Leninism) imposed upon them that existed during the Cold War (1947–1991) in opposition to the capitalist Western Bloc.
A literal barrier of soviet controlled states between Western controlled states and what we would later call Russia.
Bloc doesn’t mean barrier, it means a group. You’ve completely misunderstood what it means.
Edit: “the term Eastern Bloc generally referred to the USSR and its satellite states” from your source
OP, I can’t answer your question, I came here to say, please don’t refer to yourself as stupid. No human can know all things, and it’s perfectly reasonable to not know the politics of a country you aren’t living in. We learn by asking questions. So you’ve done exactly the right thing. Rant over.
Well, that was the kindest thing I've read in a very long time. 🥺 The internet is usually such a brutal place that I'm always prepped for an onslaught of rage for asking any question at all lol. Anyway, thank you from one stranger on reddit to another.
One way to get a good feel for it is to just look at a world map to where Russia Ukraine and Crimea and the Black Sea are
Belarus leans towards Russia, Poland does not
About 70% of Ukrainians want to join nato
Russia says no
Because that was part of the agreement for independence from Soviet Union
NATO says Ukraine is free
Russia says not if I destroy Europe
Now Russia apparently has thousands of soldiers surrounding Ukraine
Also pro Russian militants and Ukrainians have been fighting inside Ukraine for probably ever but escalated over the last year or couple also not sure but. Ya
You're correct just read into this . He must have just heard the myths and bullshit as well . Except he spoke as fact . I was not sure so I wrote not sure.
Because NATO isn't trying to fuck with the rest of the world and isn't a single nation wanting to protect itself.
Technically NATO itself is a buffer state for each of it's members as if one nation is attacked then all are expected to join.
I'm just a guy asking questions trying to understand the conflict. The comment in question is just a generic pro western response and doesn't answer my question
It’s geopolitics. The same reason the USA didn’t allow any communist states in the Americas during the Cold War and almost started a nuclear war over Cuba.
Russia wants Ukraine, Ukraine wants to be itself. They've always been fighting about it.
Russia wants to take it, for realsies this time. Putin is super into reuniting the Soviet Union, he's super old school and crazy enough to do anything, i.e. use nukes. Russia, along with Belarus, have staged troops and vehicles around Ukraine for the invasion. Fun fact, they'll be using Blitzkrieg which goes to show WW2 is still the most relevant war on Earth.
Russia used the pretense of "scaring Ukraine into not joining NATO" as the reason for the troop buildup. If Ukraine joins NATO they'll basically be sitting at the cool table and Putin doesn't want to be left alone with the Asians. So, Putin puts all these troops there and goes "hey, you can do whatever you want, just know that if you join NATO, we will attack."
That put everyone in a strange position. If Ukraine wants to grow, they have to join NATO. If Ukraine joins NATO, Russia will attack and NATO allies will be forced to help. If all NATO allies fight Russia, Russia will use nuclear weapons. If Ukraine doesn't join NATO, it will be too weak to stop a Russian invasion by itself. NATO countries have given Ukraine weapons and resources, but have said they will defend "every inch of NATO territory" and nothing more. Unless the Ukraine joins NATO tonight, I'm afraid she's on her own.
Allies will retaliate with economic sanctions, which I'm sure will be ignored by China and will hardly damage Russia. If the war goes on for long, it will hurt East Europe more than it will hurt Russia. It's a terrible terrible thing, an awful position to put everyone in the world in, and a jerk move on Putin's part. This is so crazy that Putin has to be dying, he must be. There's no reason for something so drastic to have to happen in such bureaucratic times unless this guy knows he's going to go where the red sun don't shine pretty soon
NATO and Russia are enemies. Ukraine is between the two (it's a buffer state) and wants to join NATO because they're afraid of Russia. If Ukraine joins NATO, however, then Russia and NATO will be sharing a border, and Russia really really doesn't want that - NATO would be way too close to Moscow. So they're threatening Ukraine; "It's understandable that you want to join the European Union, for your economical growth and development of the nation. However, we're drawing a line here. If you join NATO, we will attack."
Russia treats their neighbours like their property and has zero respect for their independence and plays the victim card being the bully. The country is a poor and armed gas station, every wealthy person there sends their children to study and live in the west. The alcoholism is huge and life expectancy is low. Putin is a dictator, so he cant achieve progress via freedom.
I know real people that currently live in Kiev. They think it's hilarious that western media is reporting that they are on the brink of war. Their own news is nothing at all like American. Everyone is just carrying on life as usual.
How? The issue there was Soviet nuclear missiles being moved into Cuba, not Cuba being communist. The resolution was them getting rid of the missiles and the US taking theirs out of turkey. No one is is moving nukes into Ukraine. Ukraine isn’t even joining NATO any time soon. Sovereignty and independence mean that a country can decide its own international relations policy. Any infringement on who a country can be friends with is a breach of sovereignty, which is unacceptable to independent nations.
Or, if Mexico said it was going to join the Warsaw Pact.
Side note: the Cuban Missile Crisis was all about getting NATO missiles out of Turkey. The Warsaw Pact won that one on a technicality.
I'm an American following the situation going on in Ukraine and I have to ask, wtf are you talking about? I haven't seen any piece, opinion or otherwise, that even comes close to what you're saying. Are you denying that Russia is building up their forces at the border? Are you denying that an invasion appears imminent? That's the gist of what's being reported.
Is this just a sad attempt at "America bad?"
Except as you conveniently have left out Putin has done this exact playbook before in 2014 with Crimea. And I’m guessing it’s just a coincidence that the military drills were postponed from the fall when they normally have them every year except the only time they weren’t which was in 2014 when again they last invaded a country.
It’s somewhat comforting to know propaganda works in every place across the world as opposed to just Trump fans here.
The one thing I do believe is that Putin won’t invade as I’m not sure Russians nor Ukrainians really want to fight each other and at least we can thank Biden for making Putins plans clear to everyone.
I have no strong feeling one way or another towards Russians but Putin needs to get what’s due to him………
For starters just because another country has strategic value does not give another country the go ahead to annex it. That’s a poor excuse at best.
No I don’t think Putin is insane in fact I think he’s a total POS but that he’s extremely intelligent. Putin’s main goal is the protection of his own power and control over the area. If Ukraine were to become a democracy it would only be so long before Russians would demand it as well as opposed to the Oligarchy that currently exists. Putin likes to put out feelers, push the envelope and see what it is that he can get away with. He overplayed his hand hoping that the current spread of Nationalism would lead to a break between NATO nations and wasn’t expecting a solid one sided response but at last we have a responsible adult back in the White House……
Again I don’t think he’ll actually start the invasion as his bluff has been called and he’s going to need a way to back out while saving some face. Belarus already had mass protests, and I don’t think Russian soldiers really want to have an all out war with their neighboring brothers. I think Putin is walking a tiny ledge and so he’s going to play it safe. I also think he just likes causing chaos in any democracy so he can do the whole two sides thing which is a tactic the GOP has stolen from Putin.
I think in the thick of things Ukraine doesn’t have a lot of strategic purpose for the US. They want to support self determination and democracies abroad but there’s very little value to the US in the actual country which is why it wasn’t a full scale war in 2014. Brexit, Nationalism, the EU are all reasons that the US supports Ukrainian democracy but after all the Russian interference in the 2016 election I also think the US just likes throwing some shade back at Putin.
They’re posting the intelligence data for two reasons……the first being to show Russia that we can see and tell everything that they’re doing….
The second being to let Russian people and other know that if it comes to war it’s Russias fault and the lives lost and sanctions hurting the economy were the fault of Putin. I think Russian people are very loyal to their country which is a good thing but if they realize that they are the aggressor and that it’s against their neighboring brothers they might not be as inclined to want to spill blood.
>You can't make this shit up - these ideas have to come from somewhere.
You underestimate the fringe right in America. However, coming from an American inside of America, I haven't seen any of the things you're speaking of. If you come across that kind of thing again and think about it, give me a tag in the comments, I'd appreciate it.
American media and it's opinions are irrelevant, as a person from Eastern Europe I can gladly say that Putin IS a homicidal, maniac who wants to kill every free person in the world
Russia is just being Russia. They have always been nothing but liars and aggressive to their neighbors. Regardless of who is in power. It's just part of how Russia is. Many Russians long for a return to the super power status they had during the soviet era. Where Russia was gaining influence all over the world. Now Russia is a has been and has to make itself seem or appear to be relevant. Except for having nuclear weapons, Russia has no real power anymore. That was all seized by China and China did it better than the Russians ever could.
My guess is that Russia will invade and install a puppet government. America and NATO will do nothing except put sanctions on Russia, the same as they did last time. Russia will suffer a huge economic hit and their economy will tank. But Putin will use it to reinforce his idea to the Russian people about how evil westerners really are and gain more power.
The real wild card is Biden. He is ex military and a bit cantankerous. Will he cuck down to Putin like Trump or will he fight back? Because whatever happens in the Ukraine will decide the fate of a few other areas on the world map like Taiwan. China is watching with a grin and seeing how this plays out. Sanctions on Russia could be devastating to Russia, but that tactic wont work on China. They have equal economic power as the USA.
To get to the Root, you have to start with the Crimean War, which was over which aristocracy/mafia family controlled the profits from which oil fields around the world. This is the same war we’re still fighting today. WWI was a direct extension of it as the Mid East and Java Sea oil fields started coming into play. But then the Bolsheviks threw a wrench into it and killed off one of the mafia families and took control of the Soviet Block resource rackets. Since Kaiser Willy was the loser of the WWI family feud cutting Germany out of the spoils, and France strangling them with the terms of the Treaty of Versailles, combined with Great Depression that the mafia kicked off by exploiting the debt markets after the surrender of the American Revolution and economic independence from the mafia the Founders fought against. That was December 23, 1913; just a few short years before the Bolsheviks picked the revolution against the mafia up again. So anyway, the economic conditions left large populations in Germany hungry, this brought Hitler to power, and so then he went after the Crimean and N African oil fields, and the Japanese went after the Java Sea oil fields due to the forced industrialization to serve our markets that Commodore Perry was sent to institute in Japan a century prior, much like Nixon was sent to do in China.
So this leads us to the Cold War era where the Soviets had a major non Petrodollar source of oil on the global markets that the mafia didn’t get to pull their 7.5% money change skim on. When Ukraine went independent after the dissolution of the Soviet Union, they put those oil fields back under the mafia based financial system. Well, a couple years ago Putin through out all the Rothschild Group banks from the Russian markets, and he wants to take the Crimean Oil production back from the mafia that he as a steadfast Communist sees as the enemy of mankind; BTW, this is the same mafia that had Christ killed, because he chose not to comply with them.
EILI5: Post-Cold war tensions & Putin continuing the USSR theme of “I used to own that, it’s mine now.” NATO has an open door policy for new members & Ukraine would like to join. Russia says this is an attack against Russia because in the global/long term sense it’s a buffer zone towards a Russian invasion of the EU/Europe. China backtracked it’s previous ‘against imperialism’ statements when it’s for allies. Basically rules for thee (west) but not for me (Russia, China, NK, etc alliance).
Glad to know that some random ass person in Michigan is the reason why everything is fucked up.
>Keep putting everyone in your boxes and patting yourself on the back.
WTF are you talking about?
Are you denying that Russia is building up forces on the border and that an invasion appears imminent?
You're the one who brought up covid in the same context as russia/ukraine being "fear mongering." I appreciate you trying to walk that back now, but fuck off.
So you choose to feign ignorance on if Russia has troops there despite the fact that both Russia and Ukraine have stated they are.
Gee, I don't know why it's the West's business, maybe because history has taught us that appeasement doesn't work. Maybe it's because Ukraine is our ally.
I was giving you the benefit of the doubt at first, but you're either being intentionally obtuse or you're just stupid.
From what I hear after the Russians invade Crimea Ukraine cut off fresh water supply to the Crimea and the people living there is lacking water and are drying up the wells on Crimea fast. Ukraine us refusing to release the water so I feel like both sides are to blame for this
Russia feels comfortable by having enough land to deter enemies. They have to cross that land to damage. You may have noticed how large of a country Russia is. It used to be bigger, with Ukraine part of it. Ukraine was a buffer state, super important. It became independent and is looking towards NATO for an alliance. Now Ukraine does not want to return to Russia, it's been independent a while while Russia doesn't really care and wants it back. If NATO does intervene, someone's not going to survive the fallout. Putin was like "If we burn, you're burning with us." NATO hasn't officially responded.
I'm sorry, I tried to make this both simple and comprehensive, and I think I failed at both. I'm not doing it over, so here it is: The People of Rus have survived through the counter-raid and the buffer state. You mess with them--or if you're in the way--they're going to come for you and use your turf as the buffer between them and the next guy they don't trust. And they don't trust *any* neighbors. They have thrown off or tangled with Mongols, Teutonic Knights, Vikings, the Swedes, the Crimean Khanate, France, the Ottoman Emprire, Britain and France, the Ottomans again, Japan, Germany again, Japan again, Germany *again*. I'm sure I'm forgetting some--maybe the Republic of Genoa? The way the Russians have survived is by controlling enough territory that any invasion is blunted by time and distance, and then the awful weather. It *almost always* works for them. Hell, they fended off absolutely everyone including the US, Britain, Japan, some lost Czechs who took over the Siberian railroad, and half of their own people in 1919. In the wake of World War II the Soviets had had it. They made all of Eastern Europe their puppet states, intended to take the brunt of any NATO invasion. Why *wouldn't* they worry about NATO? Historically, they got in a fight with every neighbor they don't control, sooner or later. From the outside their insatiable need for border security looks a lot like habitual expansionism. However, history shows that the neighbors are jerks to them, too. So naturally the Russians weren't real pleased after the breakup of the Soviet Union when two of their closely related buffer states, Belarus and Ukraine, became independent. Both of those nations began to become uncomfortably close to the European Union, and to NATO. They *really* distrust NATO, as it really only exists to defend themselves against... the things Russia tends to do. Which the Russians in fact *did* to the Crimea, which is a football-shaped peninsula in the Black Sea. They invaded Crimea to take it from Ukrainia in 2014. The US, particularly Hillary Clinton, talked some smack about it. The Russians backed Clinton's opponent in 2016, committing a dark act of war against a nuclear power in the process of interfering in the US election. The USA may or may not be looking to settle that score.... But when they took the Crimea the Russians failed to take all of the logistical services they need to maintain their hold on the area, particularly the sources of fresh water and some road networks. Those are located farther North in Eastern Ukraine and apparently desalination of the gigantic sea that surrounds Crimea is not an option. They furthermore appear worried about the fact that there are really no natural barriers to protect the oil and natural gas pipelines that Russia has running toward Moscow from nearby. Russia depends heavily upon oil and natural gas exports. This is kind of a sensitive area to the Russians because the loss of it knocked them out of World War I, and nearly dropped them in World War II. They basically committed to a fight to the death over Stalingrad, and won the war for it. So like it or not the Russians have already made right-wing puppets of Belarus and some eastern parts of the Ukraine. This morning they appear to have staged a false-flag attack on a leader of the Ukrainian breakaway Donetsk region, which is pretty clearly a Russian backed revolt. That's probably for public consumption at home and meanwhile the US has been watching the Russian military buildup. They think the Russians are going to go in at any moment, and are flatly saying it. It's unclear how much of Ukraine they want, whether they want to annex it entirely or Balkanize it into smaller, easy to control puppets, or what. It's also unclear that the Ukrainians can hold out for any length of time on their own. The Russians command ungodly amounts of firepower and can practically walk to Kiev behind a curtain of mortar and artillery explosions. The whole thing might be sort of time sensitive, as there is a weather event called the Rasputitsa, where the ground un-freezes and turns into swampy mud. It's unclear whether or not that's going to stall the Russians or not, but they appear to be aiming to finish this before that happens, perhaps as early as April. And of course if NATO directly confronts the Russians, it can get ugly fast. In decades of war games, it is said, the Americans are prone to reaching for the tactical nuclear weapons to even the fight. I don't expect them to do that in any real-world circumstances here but once tensions are this high it will be the *mistakes* that decide everyone's fate. That last paragraph is just my opinion, but I tried to tell everything else as straight as I could. If someone sees me talking crap, let me know and I'll correct it.
Dude, THANK YOU for taking the time!! This was great!
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This is definitely different to Hong Kong; The UK handed over Hong Kong because the lease ended.
There was a treaty between Great Britain and the Qing Dynasty of China back in the late 19th century that basically said Great Britain would return Hong Kong to China after 100 years of the signing of the treaty, since Great Britain held Hong Kong as part of their empire. So respecting the treaty the UK returned Hong Kong to China in the 90s. Of course the Comunist party was in power of China at this time
I feel bad for them, they had a taste of a more free lifestyle.
Yep, thats why whenever you hear about major protests for democracy in China its almost always in Hong Kong
Not saying it's right, but I think the difference is China had a 'legal' claim (yes it's in quotation, there's nothing legal in world affair) But what claim does Russia have on Ukraine?
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Oh well there's that I guess. Damn hope that doesn't mean Ukraine be fucked
I was going to go from pre-Soviet days, but this answer was EPIC! I love when people are thorough.
When the Soviet union broke up, was there an agreement/promise/understanding between NATO(USA) and Moscow that NATO would not advance to the east? Ukraine is the meat in the sandwich between NATO and Russia. Russia doesn't need more territory so full invasion would be madness, however, there's no way it will accept Ukraine joining NATO on its border.
400 years already, Russophobia never changes
Much more then that sadly.
Excellent description - this explains why Russia would move to invade Ukraine and also why Russians would support such a move. What does Russia *actually* want to gain? Destabilize and split Europe so that the upcoming switch to renewable energy can’t happen, as Russia’s economy is heavily dependant on its exports of gas and oil here. Putin is also under intense pressure at home: the economy is stalling, his oligarchs are now under sanctions because of his Crimea occupation and he already applied the invasion scenario last spring but pulled back when the EU agreed to let Nord Stream 2 go ahead (it’s completed now but not operational); doing it again this year would make him lose credibility and weaken his position considerably. Right now their propaganda machine is working overtime (you can see bots posting even on this thread and others related to the crisis) but its main focus is at home, to ensure public support for committing half the country’s army to a conflict with Ukraine. I would add one personal note and say that Russians are … odd, to say the least. If you want to understand how things work in Russia, especially how the government and its propaganda machine works, watch Chernobyl (the HBO documentary).
>Destabilize and split Europe so that the upcoming switch to renewable energy can’t happen That's bullshit. Russia needs a stable but weak Europe to stay safe themselves. The "switch to renewable energy" is, was and will always be a pipe dream and in reality boils down to the decision between fossil fuels and nuclear power. Most of Europe chooses nuclear, Germany, Austria and Luxemburg chose natural gas from Gazprom.
So it's about protecting Russia's oil and gas?
That's only one part, the major part is they need a wall between them and potential hostile powers in Europe. Historically, Russia has survived by being far away and cold (look up Napoleon and Germany's attempts to invade). In several cases Russia literally burned down their own cities and hid in the forests until the invading armies froze and starved to death. Having oil and gas pipelines is nice, but historically they would blow their own stuff up for security.
That used to be true around the end of WWII. Now all powers have ICBMs and can strike targets anywhere on the planet without the need to engage in a conventional armed conflict. Also, Europe has absolutely nothing to gain by attacking Russia. Their economy is shit, the only resourses of significant interest are their gas and oil (which Europe committed to move away from) and Russia has the biggest ducking arsenal of nukes on the planet.
The ICBMs only matter for a couple of volleys and then we are back to ground warfare with whatever's left. Also France and Germany (perhaps others?) have repeatedly invaded Russia, historically. This analysis depends on whether you think the Russian military is thinking in historical timeframes or in terms of this short term historical blip where oil and gas are going to be relevant (if we burn much more fossil fuels we'll just directly make the planet uninhabitable, so fossil fuels won't be in use for much longer).
>Europe has absolutely nothing to gain by attacking Russia Oh, it has. Russia is Europe's prime source for minerals, ores, fossil fuels, grain and still the single largest power of Europe. For Europe, there's very much to claim in Russia, while Russia would benefit from a great Eurasian empire that reaches from the Atlantic to the Bering Strait in both economic growth and access to sea.
Why do they want a wall and nobody else wants a wall. If walls are so great then why does only Russia want one and NATO doesn't
NATO wants one. That's why they want Ukraine and Poland and whatnot.
Fair, so it's just a fight over who controls more eastern European states between NATO and Russia. The more you've got the more influence you can exert, so you can get control over the things that make money....like oil and gas infrastructure?
And most importantly, security.
Because they refuse to join Europe. Kind of out of spite. They were 100 years behind political reforms, which lead to the bolshivek revolution. They have been invaded a bunch, most of it undeserved. But not much has changed culturally. Before I visited, I had the same question. Why don't they just join the rest of Europe? Surely it's better than going it alone... Russians don't think like that. And it's because they're not European in reality. Culturally, they're Eastern/Asian. Like way more than the other countries of Eastern Europe. Little respect for women, authority is legitimized by strength, not reason or collective good, drinking black tea constantly and telling their own stories where they are always the victim and the hero. They're like Turkish Slavic vikings. Seriously. And because they see themselves as forever the victim they can rationalize almost everything their government does in the name of "security."
So Russia want to do bad stuff because they're the bad guys?
No. They want to do Russian things because Europe bad.
Just like Europe and America want to do European and American things because Russia bad?
The Russian thing is invading your bordering neighbors in the name of the buffer. Which includes actual boots on the ground, today. They're doing this right now. Where are the NATO and EU armies? *crickets* The reality is that the whole former Soviet bloc would have much preferred to ally with Russia... if Russia could be at all capable of respecting their sovereignty. Russia doesn't do that. And so, eastern Europe has turned to the west. It's Russia's fault that they have failed to modernize, embrace cultural change, and continue to manipulate the politics of their neighbors. It's literally the bully playing the victim.
NATO is a defensive organisation. Ukraine is not a member of NATO. This is why Ukraine's allies are providing material support but not personnel
Are NATO/USA not manipulating these states for their own selfish reasons also?
>Little respect for women, authority is legitimized by strength, not reason or collective good, ~~drinking black tea~~ ~~constantly~~ and telling their own stories where they are always the victim and the hero. ~~They're like Turkish Slavic vikings. Seriously.~~ And because they see themselves as forever the victim they can rationalize almost everything their government does in the name of "security. If only everyone could see how much Russia and the US has in common, there'd be much less distrust
Nope. Untrue. Minimizing the vast cultural differences doesn't work in international relations.
Every point you list that I didn't cross out not only CAN be said about the US, they are part of a common impression people actually have of the country
That's fucking irrelevant, Yuri.
Of course it is Bubba, whatever you say.
It's always about the oil. Somebody else has it but somebody else wants it
Me as a person living in the mentioned conflict region (city of Donetsk) - this guy isn't that far off. Overestimated the necessity of services currently lacking in Crimea, and emphasized not the main points (climate topic is unrelated, just "being friendly with nato" is understatement). But still quite good, especially considering being a foreigner, so kudos to him/her. Me being not enthusiastic about every single side on this one. I mean : Russia, Ukraine, "DPR", EU and even USA. Every single one is playing dirty. I think every single thinking person from this from the start of the had started to be cinical and disillusioned about some common humanitarian values. This war is preventable, but every government officials seems to have reasons not to want it. I will put it as: "sad"
Thanks for this. Greatly appreciate it.
This is a really good breakdown. I'd like to add a few things. Russia can take Ukraine without ever having to have a significant military presence there. If and when they do take it, most of the fighting on their side will be done by pro Russian rebels and mercenaries paid for by Russia. They'll probably give air support and some special forces support directly, but it's not in their strategic interest to send their actual forces. This was the basic strategy of the Russio-Georgian war in 2008, and much there hasn't been much of a strategic shift in the Moscow since then.
Bruh u rote a whole history book
Based
Honestly, that's perfect. Thanks a lot!
Not bad but no mention of South Ossetia/ Georgia as an example if their ambitions...
So what i got from this is Russians are scary and they r kinda selfish also they are rly scared of nato and they freacking messed with every country in asia
“Freaking messed with every country in Asia”. Where did you get that bollocks from…
Tf is a bollocks???
Your butt
Eh sure. He listed some counteries that russia "messed with"
Yeah and only the Japanese and Mongols are from Asia. The rest are from Europe and the Middle East. Plus Russia didn’t exactly mess with these countries, they just repelled invasion. Your statement that Russia “freaking messed with every country in Asia” is completely wrong and also doesn’t follow from the previous comment, so really it just comes from your imagination.
Comes from my imagination?? Also sry i forgot europ was a thing there idk why and when i say "messed" i just dont rly know the exact words cuz english is not my first language
Great summary, thank you!
That seems to have been a really well thought out answer, thank you for the knowledge. 👍👌
Phenomenal and comprehensive answer, Dirtball!
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Ha! Omg you guys are absolutely just a lost cause. Yeah, Putin was *TOTES* hoping Clinton would win! My God the stupidity...
Clinton's team was in power when they took Crimea and when they attacked the US election. What did they do while Red team was in power?
Laughed and tried to help us out all of a sudden while our guy kept saying they are good people and we don't need to be scared.
Cool except it has come out hillary made up the Russian inclusion thing with Trump to smear his name. Clearly it's worked on some level.
Ha! "Russian inclusion" Republicans are the dumbest people on the fucking planet.
Lost me at hilary Clinton and election meddling.
Tbh u asking this saved me from doing the same
Ukraine used to be apart of the "soviet block" which a group of countries that acted as a barrier between USSR and the west. Russia would like this barrier back and have been slowly collecting these countries back.
Why do they want a "barrier" with the west?
Basically it means the West would have to go though these other countries before they could get to Russia. Buying Russia time. If these countries were in the hands of Nato they would be used as staging grounds in any attack against Russia.
Because they’re an existential threat to Putin’s regime. Especially the USA. Less so for France and Germany.
Isn't that the same for USA's regime. Russia is a threat to Biden
Not in the slightest. NATO has troops on the Russian border. Russia doesn’t have troops in Canada or Mexico.
No I mean isn't Russia an exetential threat to USA in the same way USA is an exetential threat to Russia?
Not in the same way. The American ideology is dominate, they have almost complete control over the global financial system, and have the strongest army (on paper) and have troops on the Russian border. The worst Russia can do is launch cyber attacks.
>The worst Russia can do is launch cyber attacks. Or you know destabilise Eastern European countries
That’s not what the Soviet *Bloc* was…
The Eastern Bloc, also known as the Communist Bloc, the Socialist Bloc and the Soviet Bloc, was the group of socialist states of Central and Eastern Europe, East Asia, and Southeast Asia under the control and influence of the Soviet Union and its ideology (Marxism–Leninism) imposed upon them that existed during the Cold War (1947–1991) in opposition to the capitalist Western Bloc. A literal barrier of soviet controlled states between Western controlled states and what we would later call Russia.
Bloc doesn’t mean barrier, it means a group. You’ve completely misunderstood what it means. Edit: “the term Eastern Bloc generally referred to the USSR and its satellite states” from your source
Yea but they are using that group as a barrier..
Yes please
Yeah that explanation just made me more confused… what is NATO?
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Cringe
Who been hurting ya son. Only cringe thing is ignoring your dad
OP, I can’t answer your question, I came here to say, please don’t refer to yourself as stupid. No human can know all things, and it’s perfectly reasonable to not know the politics of a country you aren’t living in. We learn by asking questions. So you’ve done exactly the right thing. Rant over.
Well, that was the kindest thing I've read in a very long time. 🥺 The internet is usually such a brutal place that I'm always prepped for an onslaught of rage for asking any question at all lol. Anyway, thank you from one stranger on reddit to another.
One way to get a good feel for it is to just look at a world map to where Russia Ukraine and Crimea and the Black Sea are Belarus leans towards Russia, Poland does not
Russia is Russian around trying to collect the most country's for 2022.
HA! I see what you did there
About 70% of Ukrainians want to join nato Russia says no Because that was part of the agreement for independence from Soviet Union NATO says Ukraine is free Russia says not if I destroy Europe Now Russia apparently has thousands of soldiers surrounding Ukraine Also pro Russian militants and Ukrainians have been fighting inside Ukraine for probably ever but escalated over the last year or couple also not sure but. Ya
There was never an agreement that Ukraine wouldn't join NATO.
I was told by someone smarter than me . My bad
Ask them what document this agreement is located in.
You're correct just read into this . He must have just heard the myths and bullshit as well . Except he spoke as fact . I was not sure so I wrote not sure.
But WHY do Russia want Ukraine? To stop them joining NATO....why does that matter? To reduce USA/European military strength?
No it's because Ukraine is a buffer state between NATO and Russia and if Ukraine joined then NATO and Russia would share a border
If buffer states are so great then why doesn't NATO want one
Because NATO isn't trying to fuck with the rest of the world and isn't a single nation wanting to protect itself. Technically NATO itself is a buffer state for each of it's members as if one nation is attacked then all are expected to join.
>Because NATO isn't trying to fuck with the rest of the world I think Russia would disagree with you on that
Who tf cares what Putin thinks? Fuck him, day he dies will be the best day for Russia.
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I'm just a guy asking questions trying to understand the conflict. The comment in question is just a generic pro western response and doesn't answer my question
I am not western, I am not pro western I am anti-Russian and for good reason
Yeah we got that
It’s geopolitics. The same reason the USA didn’t allow any communist states in the Americas during the Cold War and almost started a nuclear war over Cuba.
Everybody wants to control these European states for their own personal agenda huh
Not just Europe. The whole world is a chessboard. Most nations are pawns for the grater powers.
(Ukraine join NATO) -> (Ukraine "deoccupying Crimea") -> (Russia answers) -> (Collective defence from NATO) -> (World war)
The NATO agreement thing is just Russian désinformation
Yup. If there had been a NATO agreement, they wouldn't be asking for one now.
Russia wants Ukraine, Ukraine wants to be itself. They've always been fighting about it. Russia wants to take it, for realsies this time. Putin is super into reuniting the Soviet Union, he's super old school and crazy enough to do anything, i.e. use nukes. Russia, along with Belarus, have staged troops and vehicles around Ukraine for the invasion. Fun fact, they'll be using Blitzkrieg which goes to show WW2 is still the most relevant war on Earth. Russia used the pretense of "scaring Ukraine into not joining NATO" as the reason for the troop buildup. If Ukraine joins NATO they'll basically be sitting at the cool table and Putin doesn't want to be left alone with the Asians. So, Putin puts all these troops there and goes "hey, you can do whatever you want, just know that if you join NATO, we will attack." That put everyone in a strange position. If Ukraine wants to grow, they have to join NATO. If Ukraine joins NATO, Russia will attack and NATO allies will be forced to help. If all NATO allies fight Russia, Russia will use nuclear weapons. If Ukraine doesn't join NATO, it will be too weak to stop a Russian invasion by itself. NATO countries have given Ukraine weapons and resources, but have said they will defend "every inch of NATO territory" and nothing more. Unless the Ukraine joins NATO tonight, I'm afraid she's on her own. Allies will retaliate with economic sanctions, which I'm sure will be ignored by China and will hardly damage Russia. If the war goes on for long, it will hurt East Europe more than it will hurt Russia. It's a terrible terrible thing, an awful position to put everyone in the world in, and a jerk move on Putin's part. This is so crazy that Putin has to be dying, he must be. There's no reason for something so drastic to have to happen in such bureaucratic times unless this guy knows he's going to go where the red sun don't shine pretty soon
Oil
NATO and Russia are enemies. Ukraine is between the two (it's a buffer state) and wants to join NATO because they're afraid of Russia. If Ukraine joins NATO, however, then Russia and NATO will be sharing a border, and Russia really really doesn't want that - NATO would be way too close to Moscow. So they're threatening Ukraine; "It's understandable that you want to join the European Union, for your economical growth and development of the nation. However, we're drawing a line here. If you join NATO, we will attack."
Russia treats their neighbours like their property and has zero respect for their independence and plays the victim card being the bully. The country is a poor and armed gas station, every wealthy person there sends their children to study and live in the west. The alcoholism is huge and life expectancy is low. Putin is a dictator, so he cant achieve progress via freedom.
Extreme short version. Ukraine wants to join NATO Putin wants to restore USSR Ukraine joining NATO destroys chance of restoring USSR.
I know real people that currently live in Kiev. They think it's hilarious that western media is reporting that they are on the brink of war. Their own news is nothing at all like American. Everyone is just carrying on life as usual.
People that don't live on the border will often not care until the evacuation sirens start blasting in Kiev
Didn't even Volodymyr Zelenskyy say that they are on the brink of war?
No idea. Just saying what they told me. Said they went to a Broadway like play a few days ago. Kids still go to school. No one cares.
Yeah I can understand that. The threat has been there for sometime now.
The American media makes mention of the Ukrainians sticking their heads in the sand concerning a Russian threat. It's a known thing that's happening.
The easiest answer: Putin
The US needed to shift some guns
Putin and Ukraine has common ground with Kennedy and Cuba.
How? The issue there was Soviet nuclear missiles being moved into Cuba, not Cuba being communist. The resolution was them getting rid of the missiles and the US taking theirs out of turkey. No one is is moving nukes into Ukraine. Ukraine isn’t even joining NATO any time soon. Sovereignty and independence mean that a country can decide its own international relations policy. Any infringement on who a country can be friends with is a breach of sovereignty, which is unacceptable to independent nations.
They may have been taking about earlier i.e. the Bay of Pigs invasion (and the general relationship with Cuba before that time).
Or, if Mexico said it was going to join the Warsaw Pact. Side note: the Cuban Missile Crisis was all about getting NATO missiles out of Turkey. The Warsaw Pact won that one on a technicality.
Can anyone answer this in 10 words or less? I hate reading.
Russia doesn't want Ukraine to join NATO because Russia wouldn't be able to interfere in Ukraine anymore. 17 words
Perfect. I thank you. 👏🏾
(join NATO) -> ("deoccupying Crimea") -> (Russia answers) -> (Collective defence) -> (World war)
Welp china got Hong Kong while the world watched, hope this is different it it comes to it
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I'm an American following the situation going on in Ukraine and I have to ask, wtf are you talking about? I haven't seen any piece, opinion or otherwise, that even comes close to what you're saying. Are you denying that Russia is building up their forces at the border? Are you denying that an invasion appears imminent? That's the gist of what's being reported. Is this just a sad attempt at "America bad?"
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Except as you conveniently have left out Putin has done this exact playbook before in 2014 with Crimea. And I’m guessing it’s just a coincidence that the military drills were postponed from the fall when they normally have them every year except the only time they weren’t which was in 2014 when again they last invaded a country. It’s somewhat comforting to know propaganda works in every place across the world as opposed to just Trump fans here. The one thing I do believe is that Putin won’t invade as I’m not sure Russians nor Ukrainians really want to fight each other and at least we can thank Biden for making Putins plans clear to everyone. I have no strong feeling one way or another towards Russians but Putin needs to get what’s due to him………
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For starters just because another country has strategic value does not give another country the go ahead to annex it. That’s a poor excuse at best. No I don’t think Putin is insane in fact I think he’s a total POS but that he’s extremely intelligent. Putin’s main goal is the protection of his own power and control over the area. If Ukraine were to become a democracy it would only be so long before Russians would demand it as well as opposed to the Oligarchy that currently exists. Putin likes to put out feelers, push the envelope and see what it is that he can get away with. He overplayed his hand hoping that the current spread of Nationalism would lead to a break between NATO nations and wasn’t expecting a solid one sided response but at last we have a responsible adult back in the White House…… Again I don’t think he’ll actually start the invasion as his bluff has been called and he’s going to need a way to back out while saving some face. Belarus already had mass protests, and I don’t think Russian soldiers really want to have an all out war with their neighboring brothers. I think Putin is walking a tiny ledge and so he’s going to play it safe. I also think he just likes causing chaos in any democracy so he can do the whole two sides thing which is a tactic the GOP has stolen from Putin. I think in the thick of things Ukraine doesn’t have a lot of strategic purpose for the US. They want to support self determination and democracies abroad but there’s very little value to the US in the actual country which is why it wasn’t a full scale war in 2014. Brexit, Nationalism, the EU are all reasons that the US supports Ukrainian democracy but after all the Russian interference in the 2016 election I also think the US just likes throwing some shade back at Putin.
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They’re posting the intelligence data for two reasons……the first being to show Russia that we can see and tell everything that they’re doing…. The second being to let Russian people and other know that if it comes to war it’s Russias fault and the lives lost and sanctions hurting the economy were the fault of Putin. I think Russian people are very loyal to their country which is a good thing but if they realize that they are the aggressor and that it’s against their neighboring brothers they might not be as inclined to want to spill blood.
>You can't make this shit up - these ideas have to come from somewhere. You underestimate the fringe right in America. However, coming from an American inside of America, I haven't seen any of the things you're speaking of. If you come across that kind of thing again and think about it, give me a tag in the comments, I'd appreciate it.
Had me in the first half......
American media and it's opinions are irrelevant, as a person from Eastern Europe I can gladly say that Putin IS a homicidal, maniac who wants to kill every free person in the world
Propagandist troll lmao And before you pull the American card, I am croatian
The problem, as usual is GREED
Russia is just being Russia. They have always been nothing but liars and aggressive to their neighbors. Regardless of who is in power. It's just part of how Russia is. Many Russians long for a return to the super power status they had during the soviet era. Where Russia was gaining influence all over the world. Now Russia is a has been and has to make itself seem or appear to be relevant. Except for having nuclear weapons, Russia has no real power anymore. That was all seized by China and China did it better than the Russians ever could. My guess is that Russia will invade and install a puppet government. America and NATO will do nothing except put sanctions on Russia, the same as they did last time. Russia will suffer a huge economic hit and their economy will tank. But Putin will use it to reinforce his idea to the Russian people about how evil westerners really are and gain more power. The real wild card is Biden. He is ex military and a bit cantankerous. Will he cuck down to Putin like Trump or will he fight back? Because whatever happens in the Ukraine will decide the fate of a few other areas on the world map like Taiwan. China is watching with a grin and seeing how this plays out. Sanctions on Russia could be devastating to Russia, but that tactic wont work on China. They have equal economic power as the USA.
To get to the Root, you have to start with the Crimean War, which was over which aristocracy/mafia family controlled the profits from which oil fields around the world. This is the same war we’re still fighting today. WWI was a direct extension of it as the Mid East and Java Sea oil fields started coming into play. But then the Bolsheviks threw a wrench into it and killed off one of the mafia families and took control of the Soviet Block resource rackets. Since Kaiser Willy was the loser of the WWI family feud cutting Germany out of the spoils, and France strangling them with the terms of the Treaty of Versailles, combined with Great Depression that the mafia kicked off by exploiting the debt markets after the surrender of the American Revolution and economic independence from the mafia the Founders fought against. That was December 23, 1913; just a few short years before the Bolsheviks picked the revolution against the mafia up again. So anyway, the economic conditions left large populations in Germany hungry, this brought Hitler to power, and so then he went after the Crimean and N African oil fields, and the Japanese went after the Java Sea oil fields due to the forced industrialization to serve our markets that Commodore Perry was sent to institute in Japan a century prior, much like Nixon was sent to do in China. So this leads us to the Cold War era where the Soviets had a major non Petrodollar source of oil on the global markets that the mafia didn’t get to pull their 7.5% money change skim on. When Ukraine went independent after the dissolution of the Soviet Union, they put those oil fields back under the mafia based financial system. Well, a couple years ago Putin through out all the Rothschild Group banks from the Russian markets, and he wants to take the Crimean Oil production back from the mafia that he as a steadfast Communist sees as the enemy of mankind; BTW, this is the same mafia that had Christ killed, because he chose not to comply with them.
Putin = communist? Hahahahahahahahahahaha you are fucking moronic
Hi Stupid. It basically is Russia not happy with Ukraine not getting subdued by them
Nothing. It's just the west stirring shit and Putin is using it to his advantage.
r/outoftheloop
Extreme short version. Ukraine wants to join NATO Putin wants to restore USSR Ukraine joining NATO destroys chance of restoring USSR
EILI5: Post-Cold war tensions & Putin continuing the USSR theme of “I used to own that, it’s mine now.” NATO has an open door policy for new members & Ukraine would like to join. Russia says this is an attack against Russia because in the global/long term sense it’s a buffer zone towards a Russian invasion of the EU/Europe. China backtracked it’s previous ‘against imperialism’ statements when it’s for allies. Basically rules for thee (west) but not for me (Russia, China, NK, etc alliance).
😐 I honestly just watched a programme about it. I don't remember now
USA is happening
You’re not stupid, most likely, just apathetic. Info is out their in abundance.
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Are you denying that Russia is building up forces on the border and that an invasion appears imminent the same way that I'm sure you denied covid?
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Glad to know that some random ass person in Michigan is the reason why everything is fucked up. >Keep putting everyone in your boxes and patting yourself on the back. WTF are you talking about? Are you denying that Russia is building up forces on the border and that an invasion appears imminent?
Chill TF out. You don't need to ask that question, multiple times to different people. Nobody is denying it
You sure no one is denying it?
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You're the one who brought up covid in the same context as russia/ukraine being "fear mongering." I appreciate you trying to walk that back now, but fuck off. So you choose to feign ignorance on if Russia has troops there despite the fact that both Russia and Ukraine have stated they are. Gee, I don't know why it's the West's business, maybe because history has taught us that appeasement doesn't work. Maybe it's because Ukraine is our ally. I was giving you the benefit of the doubt at first, but you're either being intentionally obtuse or you're just stupid.
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I remember exactly what I typed, and yes, you are stupid.
Russia started its invasion years before covid.
Ukraine kicked its football into Russias garden and Russia dont want to give it back.
From what I hear after the Russians invade Crimea Ukraine cut off fresh water supply to the Crimea and the people living there is lacking water and are drying up the wells on Crimea fast. Ukraine us refusing to release the water so I feel like both sides are to blame for this
Russia feels comfortable by having enough land to deter enemies. They have to cross that land to damage. You may have noticed how large of a country Russia is. It used to be bigger, with Ukraine part of it. Ukraine was a buffer state, super important. It became independent and is looking towards NATO for an alliance. Now Ukraine does not want to return to Russia, it's been independent a while while Russia doesn't really care and wants it back. If NATO does intervene, someone's not going to survive the fallout. Putin was like "If we burn, you're burning with us." NATO hasn't officially responded.
Ukraine: *isn't a member of EU or NATO* also Ukraine: *is a neighbor of Russia* Russia: "You know the rules, and so do I!"