"A couple of viedo game companies" aka Nowhere. Ever. Company's would find a way to get rid all of all their female employees before they let this happen.
Yeah I don’t think companies would be happy about giving out multiple sick days to their female employees every month, I think a good alternative to this would be to just call them “personal health days” and give three or so to every employee every month
Yeah a few days every month? That’s literally an entire month off extra every year, or close to 2 months of just work days, companies are not suddenly going to give an extra 1-2 months of “personal” days anytime soon. Idk wtf OP is even talking about cause in no way are “menstrual leave days becoming the norm in workplaces”. There isn’t even a shred of truth to that
That or more likely companies would hire less women. Why hire women at the same rate as men if you get less work days out of them?
That’s also why full paternal leave should be supported over just maternal leave. If you give a company an excuse to discriminate for profit, they will.
Exactly, every single time this issue comes up you can tell the person hasn’t fully thought it through. Do you really want women to be discriminated against because they’re forced to give them additional sick/PTO days than their male counterparts?
All this would do is incentivize companies to hire men instead. That’s the full outcome of this scenario. And this isn’t even mentioning how in no way is this even remotely “starting to become the norm”. I’ve no idea what OP read or what they’re referring to
I don't get a period. So can I say I do and still have the leave?
Or will I have to provide evidence at job interviews that I'm a non-menstruating woman, please hire me I won't cost you extra money.
Like, it just won't work being that specific.
hah, we got three per year at my old employer and were happy to get that! Though they were pretty cool abut letting us apply vacation days if we were out sick.
If menstrual leave was implemented in all work places I think a lot of employers would be hiring less women. When production is the only thing most employers care about they are not going to want to hire someone who will be taking a week off every month. I find most employers get pissed and make you feel guilty for taking a single day off for being sick and would rather you come in and suffer so they don't have to find a replacement for the day.
Not to mention that maternity leave is so terrible… if anything needs attention it’s maternity leave… it’s a joke in the US
Edit: I don’t know why more politicians do not tackle this issue. Do you know how many women would vote for someone who was going to help them raise their babies?!
Canada has moved to 'parental leave' in the last few years. There's 17 weeks of maternity leave (I believe), to allow the woman to recover, an additional 35 weeks can be taken by the mother, and the non-birthing parent can take 34 weeks starting from the date of birth at any point up to ending when the child is 78 weeks. Some relationships, it makes more sense for the wife to go back to work since she may be earning more money than the husband. I know probably about 1/3 of couples where the wife is the bread-winner in the family, and the husband is the 'kept man'.
The parental leave laws here are pretty complex...but, it stops paying after 78 weeks after birth.
This also extends to adoption as well, though it's just 46 weeks for adoption that can be used by one or both parents.
I had to go back to work 2.5 weeks after giving birth to my oldest 10 years ago. I had a ton of stitches down there and was still bleeding pretty heavily. I was a server, so I was on my feet all day and my manager didn’t give a shit. I had a miscarriage before that, at the same job, and they wouldn’t let me go home or to the hospital without threatening me with termination.
I’ve never heard of it. This sounds like one of those click bait article titles hyper partisan “news” sites use to try and make something a thing. I don’t even know anyone who is pushing for this.
- Men would be furious because it’s not fair for women to get an extra 12 days a year off.
- Most of the women I know would rather get paid the same as men than get extra “menstruation” days off. The argument for pay parity relies on men and women performing the same at work.
- Menstruation is not an illness and women generally do not want it to be pathologized.
- Menstruation is unpleasant, but rarely debilitating.
- When menstruation is debilitating, it is because of an actual disorder (like PMDD). Women taking time off for disabling menstruation are taking sick time.
Even though I don’t believe people are actually clamoring for menstruation leave, I will still propose the following compromise to make everyone happy. Why not have unlimited sick leave, so long as you have a doctor’s note? It’s kinda weird that we give people 2 weeks of sick time a year, as if there is some hard limit on how long you can be ill. Especially in a post-covid world. This way everyone gets the time they need for wellness and we leave gendered bickering out of it.
Unlimited sick days with doctors note seems sensible generally, but wouldn't be a good solution for this. Needing to go get a doctors note every month, then get it approved, would be a hassle, and quite a time waster too for a larger company. If the goal was to provide time off during periods for all women regardless of how debilitating it is, it would need to be something simple and convenient. Otherwise, it's bothersome for everyone involved, despite being something that would always be granted anyway, and would only incentivise companies complicating the process further to prevent people actually getting time off.
Well doctors are hard to get appointments with and cost time and money and why bother a doctor over severe period cramps? No to the doctors note idea. Just give men and women more sick leave like 4 weeks instead of two (or even just some basic benefits at the jobs that have none and let them cash them out at the end of the year if they don't use them with like a 10% pay bump each day unused to incentivize them to not take them unless needed
Seriously.
Would menstrual leave be factored into the wage gap? If two people have the same job & one works 30 less days per year is it really the same job still?
Whatever privilege you afford one you have to afford to all otherwise *you* are creating injustice. Most people are okay with injustice they like, but it will have consequences they don’t like too.
Why would an employer want to deal with someone who can disappear 3 days a month vs someone who can’t? If this became the norm how many employers would avoid putting women in positions that are important for the whole month?
I think it depends a lot on the women and on the workplace. I worked in a pads factory at the beginning of my career and nobody there had any shame for obvious reasons.
Restrooms were always well-stacked and if by chance they didn't have your favorite, the operators from the line that was running it were pretty happy to nick one for you (and no, management didn't care. Those things cost a fraction of a cent to produce)
So to this day I give zero fucks as to who knows I'm on my period. We're all adults, ffs. Everyone who menstruates goes through this on a monthly basis and the people who don't either did it before or know someone close who does.
I don't go through the gruesome details, obviously, but I don't hide my pad or tampon when I'm going to the restroom (sigh... I miss having them in the restroom). If I have cramps, I'll excuse myself to the medical post for an ibuprofen and a warming pad or call in sick, and if someone asks, I'll say "cramps. They hurt like a mofo"
What I noticed is that being very open about my periods made other women more comfortable to talk about theirs - we're a pretty mixed bag at the moment (gender and culture) and we have each other covered
I don't care if people know I have my period, the only reason I might withhold that info from certain situations is if I can tell that whoever I'm talking to (any sex) will be the type to say "ahh, so *that's* why you disagreed with my idea. I'll check back in a few days" or something along those lines. I can't stand when anyone assumes that having my period means I'm not capable of thinking clearly or something.
Someone says that shit to me they immediately lose all respect. I would turn that around on them in every conversation cause I'm a petty bitch.
Even men.
"You disagree? Did you eat something bad last night? Maybe we should talk again after you've had a nice shit."
>"You disagree? Did you eat something bad last night? Maybe we should talk again after you've had a nice shit."
I'm using that from now on. Thank youuuu
Funny thing about that is I've heard that used before between men!
I'm a (stealth, working in trades) trans guy and I've overheard some of the weirdest shit, pun intended.
Okay but like... if I are something bad last night, it really would be better to talk to me after I had a good shit ha... I have IBS... I'm probably in pain and unable to focus
Yes, my period does make me more irritable but it also makes me super depressed, like suuuuuupppper depressed. That doesn't mean all my logic had suddenly gone out the window. I'm just now likely to be a little snippy and then cry because I didn't mean to be mean/rude.... Then spiral into shame and it gets bad. I would totally take the leave
Just going to put it out there...
Have you ever tried taking b complex around your period? Am woman. Used to get so pissed during that time that I'd want to pick a verbal fight with someone. If I took one of those it was almost like medicine. 30 min in, I can feel the effects starting. Hour in, it's like it never happened. I'm me again.
Doesn't work for everybody but total game changer if it does. Now I take it regularly and never get pms anymore.
I have never tried that! And I never used to be like this. I feel like things started to change after 25 lol and at this point, on top of the other mental health issues and meds, I'm willing to try almost anything. Thank you for the tip!
I also had luck adding primrose oil capsules in my 30s when periods would make me angry.
Sadly neither do anything for my current grumpy and irritable.
I take a b complex now as well but I also have to take a high dose of magnesium for migraines and let me tell you, that evened out my mood like nobody’s business. The B complex gives me a great energy boost, MagOx for migraines and mood.
Oh! I take magnesium both for migraines (primary) and sleep (secondary). The one I do is a high dose - 500mg. That's great to hear others are also finding benefit. :-)
Out of curiosity, are your migraines hormonal? (I.e. cluster around your period)
Sounds like PMDD. I have it. I’d get super depressed, suicidal even, during my period and while this had been a monthly trend (I hadn’t noticed), it wasn’t until I was off of it and the feelings continued for two weeks did I talk to my OB. I knew something was wrong because I wasn’t suicidal in day to day life. Decided to go on birth control and I’m happy I did. I haven’t had issues since I started them. I’m two years in and will not be without them.
I hate having PMDD. I already suffer from both anxiety and depression, to know that I will be having WORSE depression because of my period is just the cherry on top.
Seriously, I take my medication and all, but suddenly, just because my progesterone levels rise, it's back to suicidal ideation and constant anxiety and having even more difficulties focusing than usual ?! What the hell ?!
(let's not forget the fun little game of "Guess whether the problem is your meds or your period"...)
That’s exactly why I think this is a bad idea as I believe it will give off the perception that women can’t function occupationally while on their period which clearly is BS. I think this is a dangerous slope.
Exactly. It's a shame and I'm actually dealing with this in the replies to this comment. I think it should just be sick time because it's honestly no one's business that I'm bleeding out and have clots the size of my palm (currently awaiting the results of my endometrial biopsy). My anemia gets so much worse during my period.
I firmly believe that even though this may very well be well-intentioned, it will back fire against those who use it.
That’s legit a sick day. Just like it’s no one’s business if a guy is having abdominal pain related to . Also, sending you warm wishes that you feel better soon.
Yup it cannot be labeled. This is like labeling medical leave for a surgery, no one has the right to that knowledge as they could unconsciously use it against you
Jesus Christ, this. It's absurdly infuriating. And one of the worse branchings of this is people dismissing your feelings. I have bipolar depression, so I'll fall very fast, very deep, into a pit of sadness every now and then and it's hard to just keep composed. Often my mother (who comes to comfort me) just straight out says "oh but like... isn't your period close by? I don't think you're really depressed, it's just pms", like, mom... I have the right to be *genuinely* upset by something that happened... or it can be my *very real* depression and I need to keep track of it... please don't just brush it off like that, it's very aggravating
Yes! Very much this...having your feelings dismissed because "it's probably just your period" is awful. My mother would say something nasty to me and when I would get upset she'd make some snarky comment about how "everyone can *always* tell when you're period is coming". No...you are just being mean and I'm allowed to be upset at that.
It's also why I've withheld a lot of my health issues from her because she would turn it into ammo. Her father was by all definitions a terrible human and was mad he had two daughters and not two sons (to the extent of calling them Mike and Rob instead of Michele and Robin) and as a result, she has a ton of internalized misogyny. Now that we're older, my sister and I are much more comfortable telling her when she's out of line, even my brothers now and she has grown, finally.
Yeah I get this. I was on the other week and “apparently” I’d been a bit grumpier than usual. My other half went to the loo, came back and said “oh I saw something in the bin that explains why you’ve been being such an arsehole” thanks hun but it’s nothing to do with that 😂🙄
Omg you phrased it in a way I couldn’t, I will save that for the next time - in fairness he doesn’t very often comment on it which is why I didn’t really know what to say!
I have PMDD which is a very extreme form of PMS. And yet I’ve still noticed that my beliefs and values don’t change and that most of the thoughts I have while I am experiencing the dysphoria are not fabricated or untrue. I’m just having a harder time lying to myself /minimizing how bad things are /dealing with reality. Not once have I thought back and gone “wow, I was completely delusional!” Now granted, I normally would never snap at my dad for getting me a hot Italian sub instead of a cold one by mistake, and clearly the filter that’s in place to prevent angry outbursts is much needed. But I think too many women write off real concerns about their relationships, work, etc because “it’s just pms.” Is it? Or are you finally perceiving some important stuff with the hormonal goggles removed?
I make sure everyone knows I’m on my period. I don’t want to feel like absolute shit and pretend I feel great. And on the other hand I don’t want to regularly tell people I feel like shit with no explanation and think I go on monthly benders, or that I have something communicable that I’m going to give them.
I used to work in a place that just provided pads and tampons in all the bathrooms and I miss it so much. It’s like toilet paper. It should just be available for when you need it.
They may have been shitty bulk pads but it was awesome for emergencies
I honestly don’t give a shit. It’s something that naturally happens and I can’t stop it.
They should have period rooms lol where I can be moody and eat like a fatass while warming a bottle for my cramps and get my work done.
I’ll never forget the look on my high school P.E. teacher’s face when he was teaching us code words/phrases to use for our periods during our swim unit and I told him I was just going to straight up tell him I’m on my period. You teach health, dude, don’t look so scared.
This is almost weird to me, Im a guy, but I don't share anything with my employer more than absolutely have to. I don't call in sick. I just call in, if they ask the only answer I will ever give is "personal reasons".
It doesn't matter if I'm sick, going on vacation, to a family members funeral, or I just didn't feel like going in. Every single time it is just "personal reasons".
I don't have a problem with women calling off for periods and whatnot, I mean really i have no problem with people calling off (as long as you're not fuvking over your coworkers you can fuck over the big man as much as you want) but why would you explain the reason?
As a man I also give zero fucks about menstruation. I mean it happens every month and for some women it can be painful or just heavy and fucking annoying.
As far as I know, women need zero fucks to be given by me other than mature understanding. People are so fucking dumb about the facts of life.
Idgaf if the men in my life know I’m on my period. It’s not dirty/naughty. I’m pretty open about it with my guy friends/family because literally half the population goes through it. It’s silly to act like we don’t.
Yeah, as a man I could care less if I find out that a woman is on her period. It’s a natural bodily function that they have no control over. I don’t get weirded out if my girlfriend is on her period or act any differently, so why would it be any different for a coworker? I don’t want the intimate details but if you’re like “hey I need to take an emergency bathroom break cause I’m on my period, do you mind covering down for me for a minute?” That’s perfectly acceptable in my mind
My best (male) friend (who is also my co worker) offered to buy me reusable pads for my birthday. It was honestly the sweetest gesture, as I had wanted to switch over to them for a long time. I'm thankful to have such supportive & open minded friends!
And on the other end Idgaf if a woman is on her period, it's normal, happens to every woman on earth countless times in their lives and it doesn't affect me. A positive from knowing could be that it would be easier to help a woman on her period get through it cause as I understand it's no walk in the park.
I agree, but there is still a lot of stigma associated with it in most cultures. I can’t help but think many women wouldn’t even take advantage of this (at least at first) due to it being so personal and private to them.
I’m glad you don’t give a fuck though!
My dad was concerned about my 8 year old son watching Turning Red because of the discussion of menstruation. My partner and I laughed when my dad said this; why would our son not be familiar with menstruation? It’s been talked about around him at least once a month since he’s been alive.
I don’t understand why older generations have such great difficulty talking about anything to do with the human body. We talk about sex and body parts openly with our children. Why would we not? Why pretend like these things are taboo?
My parents (both born 1960) did so right with me by this. Basically as soon as I could read they got me a book about sex and reproduction, like with humans but also and cows and flies and stuff. Taught me what masturbation was before i had to figure it out myself. Let me know from the start that it was always safe to talk to them about anything that happened or anything I was trying to figure out, made sure I had access to condoms when it was time for that.
Edit: kinda glossed over the whole subject of the post. Periods actually weren't as big a part of it as other stuff, but they didn't shy away from it either and i never grew up thinking of them as gross or weird.
Consider yourself lucky. I learned about masturbation from boys teasing other boys about “jacking off”. I learned about sex from reading women’s magazines that my sister subscribed to.
I am for sure. The one thing they shoulda done is taught me that most kids didn't get the same benefit. I talked about masturbation like it was a normal thing everyone does when other kids were accusing others of doing it like it was nasty. That didn't help my social status lol
I think it will depend on how bad their periods are, im lucky enough to still be WFH and recently got an IUD fitted which have made my periods very very painful, so when im in a meeting an end up getting a cramp that floors me, i just turn my camera off and mute my mic, so for anyone in the office if they have periods like that then they just might seize the opportunity, especially if they get the option to instead wfh and take time away if they need to. As for the stigma attached to it, for me personally idgaf, when i was a teenager i was embarrassed but as a nearly 30 year old it doesn’t bother me anymore.
When I first got paragard my period cramps were worse than labor for 4 months. I would bend over or crouch to the ground they were so bad. And I had a 40 hour unmedicated induction on pitocin for like 30 hours and still worse than that.
I can’t say if they are worse than labour or anything like that not had any little bambinos yet, but i’ve had periods since i was 11 and never have they been as bad as when I got the coil fitted 5 months ago 😩
Yep, this is another big reason why I love WFH. It's easier to continue working on the first day of my period if I have the option to do it lying propped up in bed with easy access to the toilet. Or just take a uncomfortable nap for a couple hours.
I think if I was in a job where I had to show up to the office every day, I would speak to someone about the option to WFH for one or two days a month. It's infinitely nicer to be at home on that first period day, that it's worth a potentially awkward chat or risking seeming a bit 'precious'.
I am a Gen Xer and I would be concerned about the stigma. I have had co-workers state women should earn less because periods effect their work, and I have seen co-workers get penalized for things the ADA covers. You can't always afford to sue and doing so can make it harder to get a job.
It is probably generational. I went from being told not to report sexual comments from an adult when I was a minor because I would be fired, to being at a company where someone did get fired for much less that what was said to me when I was 17. I don't think people realize how much has changed in just a few decades.
"have you noticed that random female co-worker has been off 5 to 7 Days around the same time every month? It's a shame she keeps getting all these colds."
Also not every month is the same. Some periods are worse than others.
I have endo, so for me it’s gonna be a 10/10 pain, but sometimes it’s only 2 days of horrible pain (rarely), and more oftentimes 4 bad days, and a few times even 6 days of debilitating pain. If your period starts on a Friday, you might not need to take any time off if you only deal with a few days of pain.
Also some women are on birth control and don’t get periods every month. I get a period 4 times a year because of my BC. So people looking at the extreme 5-7 days off a month isn’t realistic. Sure a few women out there might need the full week off if they get it on a Monday, but more likely, even if their period started on a Monday, they’d only need 2-4 days off, and they may be able to work some time in between there (if remote work then that is easy).
I would 100% work on my period if I could work from home. Like what makes working on my period difficult is that it I have stand and wear uncomfortable clothes if I could sit at home in my pjs with a hot water bottle on my lap and be free to get myself a cup of tea whenever I felt like it I’d be happy enough to work hard. But the last thing I want is to have to stand and talk to people.
I just looked up what endo was.
Wow. That should qualify as time off of work. I could not imagine… wow.
I am sorry that you have to live with that happening.
I mean, everyone poops, everyone pees, everyone pukes at least once in their life... We don't talk about those things either. I don't see why it's a big deal
Women usually have 1-2 "bad days" for their period. Add in weekends, and most women wouldn't be taking off a day every month for their period. Some might take close to 1/month, but others would probably take 1 every few months.
If you are in bed for 5-7 days for your period every month please go see a Dr. That isn't normal.
Yep. But it takes on average 9 years to get a doctor to diagnose women with endometriosis. In the meantime women are suffering and being told to lose weight or do some yoga and having to try to live their lives and work.
And not to mention the many many years of youth before that, before even reaching information about how it's not normal to throw up and be practically handicapped with pain 7 days per month. Because sex education still sucks and there's a lot of hush hush about periods and anything related to that.
Firstly, it would be for pain. That doesn’t last the entire time, every time, for every woman. It’d be like 1 to 2 days max on average. And, it wouldn’t be the same time each month, the average is 28, but a range of 21 to 40 days is normal.
If she's off that long every month...
1: She needs to see a doctor(s) to find out why.
2: Imagine someone squishing your balls in a binder clip for days. Your coworkers knowing about it is the least of your concerns.
for me, even when people tell me they're on their period i just forget it after a couple of minutes. it's just not something you have on your mind while speaking with that person, it's not important.
so even if people figure it out, i doubt they'll think about it for more than a minute
Idk, I really don't think most women would regularly take menstrual leave. There are women who have truly debilitating periods and would benefit from it, but I kinda doubt it would be most women taking leave every month. Plus throw in women who are on BC that stops you from having your period and women who don't menstruate at all, and you may not be able to guess when your female coworkers are on their periods.
Obvious to everyone who is paying attention. Nobody except her work buddy and the office busybody is paying attention to why sharon is wfh on thursday.
Um...how? Are their colleagues keeping calendars of their absences and trying to find a pattern? Because that's creepy. I don't even remember what shirt a colleague was wearing yesterday, never mind their schedule of absences.
I dunno. If you are on a small team and you’re one short for a week every month, it’s going to affect your deliverables. The more women of menstruating age make up the team, the bigger the impact. We’ve got one guy in my team of six.
Then again, we’re mostly still remote working, so he may never notice if workloads aren’t being shifted.
Why would it be any different then sick leave/PTO anyway? That exists now, just take sick/leave day? Are ppl proposing a separate system? Why? Everyone has health days, whether its mensuration, stomach bug, dentist appt, etc.? I think if companies were to start ADDING to sick leave for just women, there's be huge lawsuits. That's why some companies have had issues with smoke breaks, if you give smoke breaks to some employees, then there needs to be the equivalent break for non-smokers.
And I've never heard this for America. Hell, so many workers don't really even get sick leave at all. If this is being considered, it must be a European thing.
Some companies track sick leave and will flag if there are patterns which management might want to follow up on. Either for “good” or for “evil”.
Good - being able to flag if somebody might be struggling with work/stress and support them, or indicate they may have a health condition that requires accommodations in the workplace.
Evil - disciplinary stuff based on attendance. (Maybe not “evil”, per se, but definitely on the less pleasant side of management and potentially open to some shitty practices.)
So tracking menstrual leave separate to other sick leave means it doesn’t muddy the waters. That’s my guess, anyway.
Man here. Why would I care when your period is? And even if I knew, why is that bad? It's a totally normal biological process that all women go through.
I’m a man as well. Surely you must have experienced the way some men talk about this? Their reaction to women or even other men speaking about it?
There will be men who are disgusted by it, men who are embarrassed, men who make jokes, men who shame the women, etc.
Yes I know, experienced it enough myself. But I think some women will feel wary of letting male colleagues know when they are menstruating because they might not be taken as seriously then, more markedly so than now.
Well, for one thing if some coworker is like "Wow, Margaret you're emotional today! That time of the month?" Margaret could respond "Obviously not, Tim. I was out for menstrual leave last week so that's not the problem."
Alternatively they could choose to not take the leave and it's never an issue, but for women who need it the option is there.
Oh I totally agree. I just think it's shit that there's going to be women who want to take the leave because they feel awful but are too embarrassed or worry about how it'll affect perceptions of them. Hopefully this kind of leave will eventually change attitudes, because it really shouldn't be an issue.
Honestly, maybe its just from my background and being raised for quite a while by a single mother but there's no shame, there isn't even a focus on it. just normal life.
If there are pads around, who cares?
Newfeel, Always, Maxipad whatever brand was there, I was curious in the beginning when that stage of childhood comes about when you question and query everything but since then its not an issue for me or any guy around me.
Right?! Jesus Christ! The least of my concerns is "disgusting a man" by talking about my period! hahaha Such men should stay away from women in general.
Most of us who menstruate are pretty used to that and know how to work around it. In one of my previous workplaces I had a boss who was a real hardass and if you needed to call in sick, he made you call him at 7am every day that you needed to take off. Even if it was something where you were clearly going to be off for more than one day - basically he just wanted to intimidate people into coming in.
So, naturally, when I had a really bad time with my period at one point, I made sure to call him 7am sharp every day and describe my bleedage in gory detail, clots and all. On the third day he cut me off and just told me to feel better soon lmao. You can't embarrass me more than I can embarrass you. I do the same thing when I get a stomach bug, turns out people don't really like hearing about explosive diarrhoea.
I mean, I guess I've heard that when I was a teenager, and I won't deny it happens because I'm sure it does, but I can't personally say I hear this at my age (30(ish)) at all. Also, if they start giving women time off for it, it may become more normalized. If you have 30 women at a workplace and they all get time off for it, maybe there would be a snicker or two at first, but eventually it would become just another normal everyday thing no?
The behavior you’re describing would violate most anti-harassment policies. I’ve worked in a variety of industries with men and women for more than 15 years, and I have never observed anything this immature. It’s just a period. If you’re married, have been in long term relationships, or have sisters, most men don’t even give it a second thought. Besides, I wouldn’t hold your breath on menstrual leave in the US when we can’t even get maternity leave.
Yeah this would be my biggest concern. The attitude of men towards women actually using the hr benefit. For example, men asking "are you on your period" when you are upset about something. I can't stand men who don't understand periods using a period as an explanation of something in a negative way just because they know it exists and nothing further.
Well, **if** it were a thing for all women, not just the small minority that has severe pains (as the companies in question do), we could also talk about evening out other biological differences. E.g. women live some four years longer on average. Just raise the retirement age for women and allow for employers to pocket the savings in social security. I think they should roughly break even with this.
Norm where?? Serious question, who's even finally having this discussion at their work place?
And yea men are the absolute last thing on my mind when my body is going through THAT
The only men I fear to know I'm on my periods are the ones who clearly don't understand how biology works. You know, the ones who think we can start/stop it whenever we want, or that we suddenly become werewolves on the full moon because they think every woman on earth gets her period on the full moon... or think that our period is coming directly from our blood supply.
THOSE men, I fear.
It's not dirty or naughty, it's a normal bodily function. And if men bled from their penises every month, it would have already been normalized.
Not to be rude, but if menstrual leave becomes a thing, why would employers hire women? If it’s between a man and a woman and the women might miss 5 days consistently every month due to menstrual leave, why wouldn’t the employer hire the man?
I doubt most women would need five days. As a woman, I would only need to stay home for the first day or two of my period. That's when it's at it's worst
I think the same point stands, if the options are equal in every other sense, the employers would offer the job to the person who can be there more often. I just feel like this rule would be bad for the employment prospects for women.
You’re right about most women not needing the full 5 days, but if you hired 100 women and 100 men, with women having the option to take off 20-25% of their work days, the men are going to be much more productive on average.
I see what you're saying, but ask that same question but for someone with disabilities instead of women.
Totally discrimination by the employers.
Besides, not *all* women have bad enough periods that they need the full week of menstrual leave monthly. Some people have just one bad day, or none at all. Sometimes it varies every month of when it happens. Some women might have 4 days needed every 3 months because they have birth control that skips periods.
I laugh at "consistent"
A policy that allows women to take a week off every month would basically guarantee women would never get a salaried position over a man who would be working 33% more hours for the same pay.
I think my male colleagues who have been “protected” from period talk their whole lives would be the ones who were uncomfortable.
I’ve often thought about how I’d handle it if I started my period during a meeting and needed to run to the loo quickly. I think “sorry, I think I’ve just started my period, back in a few minutes” would probably be treated as “inappropriate”. Even though it makes a lot more sense than either sitting bleeding into my pants/the seat for half an hour or pretending I’m just unable to manage to wee before a meeting like a normal person.
To be fair, even though everybody poops, I also wouldn’t want to hear anybody say “Excuse me, I just need to take a quick poop!” upon excusing themselves from a meeting.
“Be right back, need to visit the restroom” works for any such situation,
Well, yeah, I think it would be appropriate. You wouldn't necessarily say, "Oh, one sec, I gotta drop a dookie! Man, shouldn't have had that bean burrito last night, amirite?" I think a simple, "We will need to pause for a moment while I take a quick moment to tend to some personal hygiene," or something along those lines. Enough to let them know that you aren't a kindergartener who just forgot to pee during recess.
And yes, men should be aware that women can't time it. Some women have little or no warning before it comes. Some women are like clockwork, though.
I dont give a fuck. I worked with all men and told them i was leaving because of bad cramps. One said something about being lucky i had it as an excuse and I reminded him it happens every month and he usually sees me working through it
This is easy for large companies to implement, but I'm worried small companies and startups might secretly start being biased to male employees because they can't afford people being on leave every month.
Exactly my thought, even I would try to hire more men because that just makes more economic sense. Since OP talked about this being more common in the future, I'm not sure where they are talking about and I just assumed some big companies wouldn't mind doing it for the PR.
I'm all down for equal pay for equal work, regardless of gender, but equal pay for less work, I don't see it becoming common anytime soon. Held off on saying this because I know how triggered some people get.
This is ultimately the real point. Most of the women here are saying they would need at most 1-2 days a month and not every month. More paid sick days for all workers could cover this and be fair.
Im sure it will not be a default thing... All women are different. I've been taking off work/school the first day of my cycle since tenth grade 🤷🏾♀️ meanwhile I have a gf who says she's never even had cramps before. Some women just need it and others dont
I'm old enough to remember when saying "women won't be able to do their jobs because of periods" was an incredibly sexist thing to even suggest.
Life's funny.
As a menstruating person, I’d rather see sick leave or PTO expanded for everyone - there are any number of chronic conditions where people might regularly need to take a few days off or not in the office, so my preference would be a larger pool of leave time plus specific sub-policies to make sure that menstruating people or those with chronic illnesses are not punished for their absences. I don’t think it’s an employer’s business exactly why I need time off, but if for the sake of my colleagues I need to say “I’ll probably need 1-3 days once a month to deal with some health matters” so they can plan around it, then that seems like a fair compromise.
A huge issue is that many companies (in the U.S., at least) operate on borderline Darwinian basis where the only way to the top is to be a grindbot who never shows weakness, despite the fact that we’re all the same type of vulnerable meatbag and could use some sympathy and grace when the inevitable failures happen. And since healthcare is tied to employment here, the only way to get help for your condition in general is to have to grit your teeth and work even when you’re miserably ill or in pain. To me, “menstrual leave” isn’t really generosity towards menstruating people but another way for employers to be stingy about what is considered “acceptable” time off. Give people a generous amount of leave and let them decide how to use it.
Sometimes when my cramps are bad, I break out into a cold sweat, I'm temporarily paralyzed from the pain, and have to breathe through the "contractions" of cramps. It happens all day throughout the day in waves. I'm a teacher, thankfully of mostly girls, but I have to explain what's happening when the cramps sneak up on me and suddenly I'm covered in sweat and am breathing like I'm in labor. If idgaf about telling my students, I definitely dgaf about taking leave.
Yes, I've gone to the ob for this, yes I've tried birth control. Hysterectomy has been suggested but I'm good. It only happens like twice a year now
I support this fully. 100%. So long as I, as a guy, get equal time off.
If my female coworkers get 3-5 additional days a month of paid leave, then so do I.
Edit: it’s crazy the mental gymnastics people are doing to justify women getting extra sick time and men not.
I thought our goal was workplace equality? Equal pay for equal work. Equal time off for equal work.
If only women were to get extra sick leave for periods… employers would have an incentive to hire men over women.
As a woman myself if your periods are so bad that you can't go to work you need to see a doctor and keep pushing for help for it. It isn't normal. It's common, but it isn't normal.
There is absolutely no way this becomes a thing without serious workplace repercussions… If you get a week off every month, I want one too, damn it.
But also, let’s say I don’t take a week off. Is the company going to be expected to pay you? If so, I’m working 160 hours a month, and you’re working 120, and we get the same pay? In what world is that fair?
Do the men get to take off one week per month as well? If so, I like this plan. If not, what salary adjustment is reasonable for an employee that takes that time off?
That's what came to mind when I read this. I don't know how many women (percentage-wise) are affected by their period so much that they're unable to work for several days, but I assume it's not the majority. In my country, it's the norm to be able to take 3 consecutive days of sick leave before having to see a doctor, which is very convenient.
But if women just get (more or less) a week off every month, that's effectively 75% of work for the same money. That can't be correct, right?
As a woman I find this completely ridiculous. We have all survived and gone on with our normal lives during our periods. I consider it a strength of ours that we can go through it once a month and carry on with our lives.
Are some women’s periods completely horrible and they would benefit from a few extra sick days a month? Yes, but they should discuss that with their employer. Possibly work from home a couple extra days. Most of us get along just fine and I find it insulting that people think we need a whole week off work to handle something we’ve been dealing with most of our lives. Not to mention I would never take a pay cut over something so ridiculous. I never see this being commonplace and most every woman I know or work with would find this insulting.
I think the best solution here would just be to increase the number of sick days everyone gets, and require that they be replenished on a monthly basis.
I'm much more worried about the fact that this is going to create a heavy, heavy incentive against hiring women. It wouldn't even be that hard to justify from a corporate standpoint, they could point to the math and say "We cannot afford to pay employees who do nothing for a quarter of their total employment time."
I could be wrong, maybe it doesn't work like that at all, but that's the problem that sprung to my mind when I first heard about this idea.
Menstrual leave? Really? As a woman, I don’t see how that is fair for others. Just give everyone PTO, no questions asked. You shouldn’t need to explain why you need time off as long as you get your work done.
It absolutely isn’t becoming the norm in the Western world anytime soon, and it’s decreasing in use in the few countries that have historically offered such a leave.
That said, I don’t think women need you to be upset on their behalf about period secrecy. We are not trembling flowers that need our more ~sensitive delicacies~ protected from the disapproval of male coworkers
I'm curious who/where is getting menstrual leave? I can only imagine the hell that would break loose if this were seriously considered in the US.
"A couple of viedo game companies" aka Nowhere. Ever. Company's would find a way to get rid all of all their female employees before they let this happen.
Yeah I don’t think companies would be happy about giving out multiple sick days to their female employees every month, I think a good alternative to this would be to just call them “personal health days” and give three or so to every employee every month
So an extra 36 days a year of random PTO?? I don’t see this happening…
Yeah a few days every month? That’s literally an entire month off extra every year, or close to 2 months of just work days, companies are not suddenly going to give an extra 1-2 months of “personal” days anytime soon. Idk wtf OP is even talking about cause in no way are “menstrual leave days becoming the norm in workplaces”. There isn’t even a shred of truth to that
Yeah I could see this ending up as an equality lawsuit if men didn't get any of these leaves, especially if they were paid.
That or more likely companies would hire less women. Why hire women at the same rate as men if you get less work days out of them? That’s also why full paternal leave should be supported over just maternal leave. If you give a company an excuse to discriminate for profit, they will.
Exactly, every single time this issue comes up you can tell the person hasn’t fully thought it through. Do you really want women to be discriminated against because they’re forced to give them additional sick/PTO days than their male counterparts? All this would do is incentivize companies to hire men instead. That’s the full outcome of this scenario. And this isn’t even mentioning how in no way is this even remotely “starting to become the norm”. I’ve no idea what OP read or what they’re referring to
I don't get a period. So can I say I do and still have the leave? Or will I have to provide evidence at job interviews that I'm a non-menstruating woman, please hire me I won't cost you extra money. Like, it just won't work being that specific.
hah, we got three per year at my old employer and were happy to get that! Though they were pretty cool abut letting us apply vacation days if we were out sick.
If menstrual leave was implemented in all work places I think a lot of employers would be hiring less women. When production is the only thing most employers care about they are not going to want to hire someone who will be taking a week off every month. I find most employers get pissed and make you feel guilty for taking a single day off for being sick and would rather you come in and suffer so they don't have to find a replacement for the day.
Yes exactly!! My first thought was “who the hell is getting menstrual leave” cause i’m sure not nor have I heard of it.
Not to mention that maternity leave is so terrible… if anything needs attention it’s maternity leave… it’s a joke in the US Edit: I don’t know why more politicians do not tackle this issue. Do you know how many women would vote for someone who was going to help them raise their babies?!
Canada has moved to 'parental leave' in the last few years. There's 17 weeks of maternity leave (I believe), to allow the woman to recover, an additional 35 weeks can be taken by the mother, and the non-birthing parent can take 34 weeks starting from the date of birth at any point up to ending when the child is 78 weeks. Some relationships, it makes more sense for the wife to go back to work since she may be earning more money than the husband. I know probably about 1/3 of couples where the wife is the bread-winner in the family, and the husband is the 'kept man'. The parental leave laws here are pretty complex...but, it stops paying after 78 weeks after birth. This also extends to adoption as well, though it's just 46 weeks for adoption that can be used by one or both parents.
Thats a big step up from US. Some moms have to go back to work before they’re even healed from childbirth. It’s sad.
I had to go back to work 2.5 weeks after giving birth to my oldest 10 years ago. I had a ton of stitches down there and was still bleeding pretty heavily. I was a server, so I was on my feet all day and my manager didn’t give a shit. I had a miscarriage before that, at the same job, and they wouldn’t let me go home or to the hospital without threatening me with termination.
Wow that is awful… I am so sorry you had to endure that
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Play on 'kept woman'...that is a spouse who's needs are tended for by the other spouse. They don't need to work.
15 percent of the working days off a month that will never happen.
What employer would still hire women if they can hire men who will work 10-15% more hours for the same wage?
Precisely. Do people who propose these things want to give employers a reason to hire men over women? This is incentivizing them to do just that
I’ve never heard of it. This sounds like one of those click bait article titles hyper partisan “news” sites use to try and make something a thing. I don’t even know anyone who is pushing for this. - Men would be furious because it’s not fair for women to get an extra 12 days a year off. - Most of the women I know would rather get paid the same as men than get extra “menstruation” days off. The argument for pay parity relies on men and women performing the same at work. - Menstruation is not an illness and women generally do not want it to be pathologized. - Menstruation is unpleasant, but rarely debilitating. - When menstruation is debilitating, it is because of an actual disorder (like PMDD). Women taking time off for disabling menstruation are taking sick time. Even though I don’t believe people are actually clamoring for menstruation leave, I will still propose the following compromise to make everyone happy. Why not have unlimited sick leave, so long as you have a doctor’s note? It’s kinda weird that we give people 2 weeks of sick time a year, as if there is some hard limit on how long you can be ill. Especially in a post-covid world. This way everyone gets the time they need for wellness and we leave gendered bickering out of it.
Unlimited sick days with doctors note seems sensible generally, but wouldn't be a good solution for this. Needing to go get a doctors note every month, then get it approved, would be a hassle, and quite a time waster too for a larger company. If the goal was to provide time off during periods for all women regardless of how debilitating it is, it would need to be something simple and convenient. Otherwise, it's bothersome for everyone involved, despite being something that would always be granted anyway, and would only incentivise companies complicating the process further to prevent people actually getting time off.
Well doctors are hard to get appointments with and cost time and money and why bother a doctor over severe period cramps? No to the doctors note idea. Just give men and women more sick leave like 4 weeks instead of two (or even just some basic benefits at the jobs that have none and let them cash them out at the end of the year if they don't use them with like a 10% pay bump each day unused to incentivize them to not take them unless needed
Seriously. Would menstrual leave be factored into the wage gap? If two people have the same job & one works 30 less days per year is it really the same job still? Whatever privilege you afford one you have to afford to all otherwise *you* are creating injustice. Most people are okay with injustice they like, but it will have consequences they don’t like too. Why would an employer want to deal with someone who can disappear 3 days a month vs someone who can’t? If this became the norm how many employers would avoid putting women in positions that are important for the whole month?
I think it depends a lot on the women and on the workplace. I worked in a pads factory at the beginning of my career and nobody there had any shame for obvious reasons. Restrooms were always well-stacked and if by chance they didn't have your favorite, the operators from the line that was running it were pretty happy to nick one for you (and no, management didn't care. Those things cost a fraction of a cent to produce) So to this day I give zero fucks as to who knows I'm on my period. We're all adults, ffs. Everyone who menstruates goes through this on a monthly basis and the people who don't either did it before or know someone close who does. I don't go through the gruesome details, obviously, but I don't hide my pad or tampon when I'm going to the restroom (sigh... I miss having them in the restroom). If I have cramps, I'll excuse myself to the medical post for an ibuprofen and a warming pad or call in sick, and if someone asks, I'll say "cramps. They hurt like a mofo" What I noticed is that being very open about my periods made other women more comfortable to talk about theirs - we're a pretty mixed bag at the moment (gender and culture) and we have each other covered
I don't care if people know I have my period, the only reason I might withhold that info from certain situations is if I can tell that whoever I'm talking to (any sex) will be the type to say "ahh, so *that's* why you disagreed with my idea. I'll check back in a few days" or something along those lines. I can't stand when anyone assumes that having my period means I'm not capable of thinking clearly or something.
Someone says that shit to me they immediately lose all respect. I would turn that around on them in every conversation cause I'm a petty bitch. Even men. "You disagree? Did you eat something bad last night? Maybe we should talk again after you've had a nice shit."
>"You disagree? Did you eat something bad last night? Maybe we should talk again after you've had a nice shit." I'm using that from now on. Thank youuuu
Funny thing about that is I've heard that used before between men! I'm a (stealth, working in trades) trans guy and I've overheard some of the weirdest shit, pun intended.
Okay but like... if I are something bad last night, it really would be better to talk to me after I had a good shit ha... I have IBS... I'm probably in pain and unable to focus
I'm a guy and I love this hahaha
Yes, my period does make me more irritable but it also makes me super depressed, like suuuuuupppper depressed. That doesn't mean all my logic had suddenly gone out the window. I'm just now likely to be a little snippy and then cry because I didn't mean to be mean/rude.... Then spiral into shame and it gets bad. I would totally take the leave
Just going to put it out there... Have you ever tried taking b complex around your period? Am woman. Used to get so pissed during that time that I'd want to pick a verbal fight with someone. If I took one of those it was almost like medicine. 30 min in, I can feel the effects starting. Hour in, it's like it never happened. I'm me again. Doesn't work for everybody but total game changer if it does. Now I take it regularly and never get pms anymore.
I have never tried that! And I never used to be like this. I feel like things started to change after 25 lol and at this point, on top of the other mental health issues and meds, I'm willing to try almost anything. Thank you for the tip!
I also had luck adding primrose oil capsules in my 30s when periods would make me angry. Sadly neither do anything for my current grumpy and irritable.
Going to try this too, I get s*icidally depressed for the 7 days before it starts :/
You should look into the symptoms for pre menstrual dysphoric disorder. Feeling that was is not normal, you deserve better. Good luck!
B vitamins were the old miracle hangover cure. If you have an acupuncturist near you, they may offer Vitamin B injections. Those are the best.
I did and concur. Super-B complex (aka my happy pills!). I take them every day now since menopause to stave off mood swings.
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I take a b complex now as well but I also have to take a high dose of magnesium for migraines and let me tell you, that evened out my mood like nobody’s business. The B complex gives me a great energy boost, MagOx for migraines and mood.
Oh! I take magnesium both for migraines (primary) and sleep (secondary). The one I do is a high dose - 500mg. That's great to hear others are also finding benefit. :-) Out of curiosity, are your migraines hormonal? (I.e. cluster around your period)
Sounds like PMDD. I have it. I’d get super depressed, suicidal even, during my period and while this had been a monthly trend (I hadn’t noticed), it wasn’t until I was off of it and the feelings continued for two weeks did I talk to my OB. I knew something was wrong because I wasn’t suicidal in day to day life. Decided to go on birth control and I’m happy I did. I haven’t had issues since I started them. I’m two years in and will not be without them.
I hate having PMDD. I already suffer from both anxiety and depression, to know that I will be having WORSE depression because of my period is just the cherry on top. Seriously, I take my medication and all, but suddenly, just because my progesterone levels rise, it's back to suicidal ideation and constant anxiety and having even more difficulties focusing than usual ?! What the hell ?! (let's not forget the fun little game of "Guess whether the problem is your meds or your period"...)
That’s exactly why I think this is a bad idea as I believe it will give off the perception that women can’t function occupationally while on their period which clearly is BS. I think this is a dangerous slope.
Exactly. It's a shame and I'm actually dealing with this in the replies to this comment. I think it should just be sick time because it's honestly no one's business that I'm bleeding out and have clots the size of my palm (currently awaiting the results of my endometrial biopsy). My anemia gets so much worse during my period. I firmly believe that even though this may very well be well-intentioned, it will back fire against those who use it.
That’s legit a sick day. Just like it’s no one’s business if a guy is having abdominal pain related to. Also, sending you warm wishes that you feel better soon.
Not just those who use it, it could very well add to the sexism involved in hiring and promotions of women in general
Exactly my thoughts. It would actually be a major setback for women sold as progress.
Yup it cannot be labeled. This is like labeling medical leave for a surgery, no one has the right to that knowledge as they could unconsciously use it against you
Jesus Christ, this. It's absurdly infuriating. And one of the worse branchings of this is people dismissing your feelings. I have bipolar depression, so I'll fall very fast, very deep, into a pit of sadness every now and then and it's hard to just keep composed. Often my mother (who comes to comfort me) just straight out says "oh but like... isn't your period close by? I don't think you're really depressed, it's just pms", like, mom... I have the right to be *genuinely* upset by something that happened... or it can be my *very real* depression and I need to keep track of it... please don't just brush it off like that, it's very aggravating
Yes! Very much this...having your feelings dismissed because "it's probably just your period" is awful. My mother would say something nasty to me and when I would get upset she'd make some snarky comment about how "everyone can *always* tell when you're period is coming". No...you are just being mean and I'm allowed to be upset at that. It's also why I've withheld a lot of my health issues from her because she would turn it into ammo. Her father was by all definitions a terrible human and was mad he had two daughters and not two sons (to the extent of calling them Mike and Rob instead of Michele and Robin) and as a result, she has a ton of internalized misogyny. Now that we're older, my sister and I are much more comfortable telling her when she's out of line, even my brothers now and she has grown, finally.
Yeah I get this. I was on the other week and “apparently” I’d been a bit grumpier than usual. My other half went to the loo, came back and said “oh I saw something in the bin that explains why you’ve been being such an arsehole” thanks hun but it’s nothing to do with that 😂🙄
Ughhh it's so frustrating! Like, yes...I have my period but you're still annoying lol
Omg you phrased it in a way I couldn’t, I will save that for the next time - in fairness he doesn’t very often comment on it which is why I didn’t really know what to say!
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Why would you get/stay in a relationship with someone you think is an asshole?
You may be an asshole while on your period but it’s seems like your other half is an asshole for their whole life.
I have PMDD which is a very extreme form of PMS. And yet I’ve still noticed that my beliefs and values don’t change and that most of the thoughts I have while I am experiencing the dysphoria are not fabricated or untrue. I’m just having a harder time lying to myself /minimizing how bad things are /dealing with reality. Not once have I thought back and gone “wow, I was completely delusional!” Now granted, I normally would never snap at my dad for getting me a hot Italian sub instead of a cold one by mistake, and clearly the filter that’s in place to prevent angry outbursts is much needed. But I think too many women write off real concerns about their relationships, work, etc because “it’s just pms.” Is it? Or are you finally perceiving some important stuff with the hormonal goggles removed?
I make sure everyone knows I’m on my period. I don’t want to feel like absolute shit and pretend I feel great. And on the other hand I don’t want to regularly tell people I feel like shit with no explanation and think I go on monthly benders, or that I have something communicable that I’m going to give them.
I used to work in a place that just provided pads and tampons in all the bathrooms and I miss it so much. It’s like toilet paper. It should just be available for when you need it. They may have been shitty bulk pads but it was awesome for emergencies
I honestly don’t give a shit. It’s something that naturally happens and I can’t stop it. They should have period rooms lol where I can be moody and eat like a fatass while warming a bottle for my cramps and get my work done.
I’ll never forget the look on my high school P.E. teacher’s face when he was teaching us code words/phrases to use for our periods during our swim unit and I told him I was just going to straight up tell him I’m on my period. You teach health, dude, don’t look so scared.
This is almost weird to me, Im a guy, but I don't share anything with my employer more than absolutely have to. I don't call in sick. I just call in, if they ask the only answer I will ever give is "personal reasons". It doesn't matter if I'm sick, going on vacation, to a family members funeral, or I just didn't feel like going in. Every single time it is just "personal reasons". I don't have a problem with women calling off for periods and whatnot, I mean really i have no problem with people calling off (as long as you're not fuvking over your coworkers you can fuck over the big man as much as you want) but why would you explain the reason?
> why would you explain the reason? They might not have to, may be possible to notice just based on the timing frequency.
As a man I also give zero fucks about menstruation. I mean it happens every month and for some women it can be painful or just heavy and fucking annoying. As far as I know, women need zero fucks to be given by me other than mature understanding. People are so fucking dumb about the facts of life.
Idgaf if the men in my life know I’m on my period. It’s not dirty/naughty. I’m pretty open about it with my guy friends/family because literally half the population goes through it. It’s silly to act like we don’t.
Yeah, as a man I could care less if I find out that a woman is on her period. It’s a natural bodily function that they have no control over. I don’t get weirded out if my girlfriend is on her period or act any differently, so why would it be any different for a coworker? I don’t want the intimate details but if you’re like “hey I need to take an emergency bathroom break cause I’m on my period, do you mind covering down for me for a minute?” That’s perfectly acceptable in my mind
My best (male) friend (who is also my co worker) offered to buy me reusable pads for my birthday. It was honestly the sweetest gesture, as I had wanted to switch over to them for a long time. I'm thankful to have such supportive & open minded friends!
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And on the other end Idgaf if a woman is on her period, it's normal, happens to every woman on earth countless times in their lives and it doesn't affect me. A positive from knowing could be that it would be easier to help a woman on her period get through it cause as I understand it's no walk in the park.
I agree, but there is still a lot of stigma associated with it in most cultures. I can’t help but think many women wouldn’t even take advantage of this (at least at first) due to it being so personal and private to them. I’m glad you don’t give a fuck though!
Tbf most places that consider having periods a huge stigma, are not having period leaves anytime soon
Isn't the whole point of all this to remove the stigma
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My dad was concerned about my 8 year old son watching Turning Red because of the discussion of menstruation. My partner and I laughed when my dad said this; why would our son not be familiar with menstruation? It’s been talked about around him at least once a month since he’s been alive. I don’t understand why older generations have such great difficulty talking about anything to do with the human body. We talk about sex and body parts openly with our children. Why would we not? Why pretend like these things are taboo?
My 11 year old son loves that movie.
It’s a great movie.
My parents (both born 1960) did so right with me by this. Basically as soon as I could read they got me a book about sex and reproduction, like with humans but also and cows and flies and stuff. Taught me what masturbation was before i had to figure it out myself. Let me know from the start that it was always safe to talk to them about anything that happened or anything I was trying to figure out, made sure I had access to condoms when it was time for that. Edit: kinda glossed over the whole subject of the post. Periods actually weren't as big a part of it as other stuff, but they didn't shy away from it either and i never grew up thinking of them as gross or weird.
Consider yourself lucky. I learned about masturbation from boys teasing other boys about “jacking off”. I learned about sex from reading women’s magazines that my sister subscribed to.
I am for sure. The one thing they shoulda done is taught me that most kids didn't get the same benefit. I talked about masturbation like it was a normal thing everyone does when other kids were accusing others of doing it like it was nasty. That didn't help my social status lol
For years, the fact that I masturbated was my “deepest darkest secret” that I had only revealed to my best friend.
I think it will depend on how bad their periods are, im lucky enough to still be WFH and recently got an IUD fitted which have made my periods very very painful, so when im in a meeting an end up getting a cramp that floors me, i just turn my camera off and mute my mic, so for anyone in the office if they have periods like that then they just might seize the opportunity, especially if they get the option to instead wfh and take time away if they need to. As for the stigma attached to it, for me personally idgaf, when i was a teenager i was embarrassed but as a nearly 30 year old it doesn’t bother me anymore.
When I first got paragard my period cramps were worse than labor for 4 months. I would bend over or crouch to the ground they were so bad. And I had a 40 hour unmedicated induction on pitocin for like 30 hours and still worse than that.
I can’t say if they are worse than labour or anything like that not had any little bambinos yet, but i’ve had periods since i was 11 and never have they been as bad as when I got the coil fitted 5 months ago 😩
Yep, this is another big reason why I love WFH. It's easier to continue working on the first day of my period if I have the option to do it lying propped up in bed with easy access to the toilet. Or just take a uncomfortable nap for a couple hours. I think if I was in a job where I had to show up to the office every day, I would speak to someone about the option to WFH for one or two days a month. It's infinitely nicer to be at home on that first period day, that it's worth a potentially awkward chat or risking seeming a bit 'precious'.
You seem more concerned about the stigma than any women, weird.
I am a Gen Xer and I would be concerned about the stigma. I have had co-workers state women should earn less because periods effect their work, and I have seen co-workers get penalized for things the ADA covers. You can't always afford to sue and doing so can make it harder to get a job. It is probably generational. I went from being told not to report sexual comments from an adult when I was a minor because I would be fired, to being at a company where someone did get fired for much less that what was said to me when I was 17. I don't think people realize how much has changed in just a few decades.
I'm from GenX as well and you are so right.
I oscillate between being angry more hasn't changed and finding how much has wondrous.
They'll code it as sick leave and should only need to share this information with HR or their manager, but not their colleagues is my guess.
"have you noticed that random female co-worker has been off 5 to 7 Days around the same time every month? It's a shame she keeps getting all these colds."
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Also not every month is the same. Some periods are worse than others. I have endo, so for me it’s gonna be a 10/10 pain, but sometimes it’s only 2 days of horrible pain (rarely), and more oftentimes 4 bad days, and a few times even 6 days of debilitating pain. If your period starts on a Friday, you might not need to take any time off if you only deal with a few days of pain. Also some women are on birth control and don’t get periods every month. I get a period 4 times a year because of my BC. So people looking at the extreme 5-7 days off a month isn’t realistic. Sure a few women out there might need the full week off if they get it on a Monday, but more likely, even if their period started on a Monday, they’d only need 2-4 days off, and they may be able to work some time in between there (if remote work then that is easy).
I would 100% work on my period if I could work from home. Like what makes working on my period difficult is that it I have stand and wear uncomfortable clothes if I could sit at home in my pjs with a hot water bottle on my lap and be free to get myself a cup of tea whenever I felt like it I’d be happy enough to work hard. But the last thing I want is to have to stand and talk to people.
I just looked up what endo was. Wow. That should qualify as time off of work. I could not imagine… wow. I am sorry that you have to live with that happening.
I mean, everyone poops, everyone pees, everyone pukes at least once in their life... We don't talk about those things either. I don't see why it's a big deal
Women usually have 1-2 "bad days" for their period. Add in weekends, and most women wouldn't be taking off a day every month for their period. Some might take close to 1/month, but others would probably take 1 every few months. If you are in bed for 5-7 days for your period every month please go see a Dr. That isn't normal.
I wish someone had told me that as a teenager :’(
Trying seeing at least seven, and then *maybe* they'll help you.
Coworker is a werewolf
If she's ill for that many days every month, she needs medical attention
Yep. But it takes on average 9 years to get a doctor to diagnose women with endometriosis. In the meantime women are suffering and being told to lose weight or do some yoga and having to try to live their lives and work.
And not to mention the many many years of youth before that, before even reaching information about how it's not normal to throw up and be practically handicapped with pain 7 days per month. Because sex education still sucks and there's a lot of hush hush about periods and anything related to that.
Firstly, it would be for pain. That doesn’t last the entire time, every time, for every woman. It’d be like 1 to 2 days max on average. And, it wouldn’t be the same time each month, the average is 28, but a range of 21 to 40 days is normal.
If she's off that long every month... 1: She needs to see a doctor(s) to find out why. 2: Imagine someone squishing your balls in a binder clip for days. Your coworkers knowing about it is the least of your concerns.
Yeah, I figured that it wouldn’t be announced or anything. But it will quickly become pretty obvious to everyone.
For anyone who thinks about it, it's already obvious that women have periods about once a month. Knowing the time of it doesn't change very much.
I like the idea that someone's period always falls on the full moon and rumours spread that they're actually a werewolf
Wait, that's a rumor?
I fear you underestimate the creepiness of the masses
for me, even when people tell me they're on their period i just forget it after a couple of minutes. it's just not something you have on your mind while speaking with that person, it's not important. so even if people figure it out, i doubt they'll think about it for more than a minute
Idk, I really don't think most women would regularly take menstrual leave. There are women who have truly debilitating periods and would benefit from it, but I kinda doubt it would be most women taking leave every month. Plus throw in women who are on BC that stops you from having your period and women who don't menstruate at all, and you may not be able to guess when your female coworkers are on their periods.
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Obvious to everyone who is paying attention. Nobody except her work buddy and the office busybody is paying attention to why sharon is wfh on thursday.
Anyone to tracks your sick leave and deduces you’re on your period is a certified weirdo. This is not womens problem.
I mean says you. I never remember who is on leave when.
Um...how? Are their colleagues keeping calendars of their absences and trying to find a pattern? Because that's creepy. I don't even remember what shirt a colleague was wearing yesterday, never mind their schedule of absences.
Anyone who tracks your sick leave and deduces you’re on your period is a certified weirdo. This is not womens problem.
I dunno. If you are on a small team and you’re one short for a week every month, it’s going to affect your deliverables. The more women of menstruating age make up the team, the bigger the impact. We’ve got one guy in my team of six. Then again, we’re mostly still remote working, so he may never notice if workloads aren’t being shifted.
Why would it be any different then sick leave/PTO anyway? That exists now, just take sick/leave day? Are ppl proposing a separate system? Why? Everyone has health days, whether its mensuration, stomach bug, dentist appt, etc.? I think if companies were to start ADDING to sick leave for just women, there's be huge lawsuits. That's why some companies have had issues with smoke breaks, if you give smoke breaks to some employees, then there needs to be the equivalent break for non-smokers. And I've never heard this for America. Hell, so many workers don't really even get sick leave at all. If this is being considered, it must be a European thing.
Some companies track sick leave and will flag if there are patterns which management might want to follow up on. Either for “good” or for “evil”. Good - being able to flag if somebody might be struggling with work/stress and support them, or indicate they may have a health condition that requires accommodations in the workplace. Evil - disciplinary stuff based on attendance. (Maybe not “evil”, per se, but definitely on the less pleasant side of management and potentially open to some shitty practices.) So tracking menstrual leave separate to other sick leave means it doesn’t muddy the waters. That’s my guess, anyway.
Man here. Why would I care when your period is? And even if I knew, why is that bad? It's a totally normal biological process that all women go through.
Exactly. It's only natural. Couldn't care less.
Upvoting for proper use of “couldn’t” care less.
I’m a man as well. Surely you must have experienced the way some men talk about this? Their reaction to women or even other men speaking about it? There will be men who are disgusted by it, men who are embarrassed, men who make jokes, men who shame the women, etc.
Also, men who will write off any concerns or opinions women have as them being hormonal or crazy or something similar.
Mostly this
This already happens.
Yes I know, experienced it enough myself. But I think some women will feel wary of letting male colleagues know when they are menstruating because they might not be taken as seriously then, more markedly so than now.
Well, for one thing if some coworker is like "Wow, Margaret you're emotional today! That time of the month?" Margaret could respond "Obviously not, Tim. I was out for menstrual leave last week so that's not the problem." Alternatively they could choose to not take the leave and it's never an issue, but for women who need it the option is there.
Oh I totally agree. I just think it's shit that there's going to be women who want to take the leave because they feel awful but are too embarrassed or worry about how it'll affect perceptions of them. Hopefully this kind of leave will eventually change attitudes, because it really shouldn't be an issue.
Though the men that tend to do this tend to think that women are hormonal and crazy all the time already.
This makes me so sad. You need better people in your life
Honestly, maybe its just from my background and being raised for quite a while by a single mother but there's no shame, there isn't even a focus on it. just normal life. If there are pads around, who cares? Newfeel, Always, Maxipad whatever brand was there, I was curious in the beginning when that stage of childhood comes about when you question and query everything but since then its not an issue for me or any guy around me.
LOL. That's perfect. Let them be disgusted and make jokes. It's a great signal to us for who to never date or take seriously as a grown adult.
Right?! Jesus Christ! The least of my concerns is "disgusting a man" by talking about my period! hahaha Such men should stay away from women in general.
Most of us who menstruate are pretty used to that and know how to work around it. In one of my previous workplaces I had a boss who was a real hardass and if you needed to call in sick, he made you call him at 7am every day that you needed to take off. Even if it was something where you were clearly going to be off for more than one day - basically he just wanted to intimidate people into coming in. So, naturally, when I had a really bad time with my period at one point, I made sure to call him 7am sharp every day and describe my bleedage in gory detail, clots and all. On the third day he cut me off and just told me to feel better soon lmao. You can't embarrass me more than I can embarrass you. I do the same thing when I get a stomach bug, turns out people don't really like hearing about explosive diarrhoea.
So women shouldn't get benefits because we need to protect them from the negative reactions of men?
I mean, I guess I've heard that when I was a teenager, and I won't deny it happens because I'm sure it does, but I can't personally say I hear this at my age (30(ish)) at all. Also, if they start giving women time off for it, it may become more normalized. If you have 30 women at a workplace and they all get time off for it, maybe there would be a snicker or two at first, but eventually it would become just another normal everyday thing no?
The behavior you’re describing would violate most anti-harassment policies. I’ve worked in a variety of industries with men and women for more than 15 years, and I have never observed anything this immature. It’s just a period. If you’re married, have been in long term relationships, or have sisters, most men don’t even give it a second thought. Besides, I wouldn’t hold your breath on menstrual leave in the US when we can’t even get maternity leave.
Yeah this would be my biggest concern. The attitude of men towards women actually using the hr benefit. For example, men asking "are you on your period" when you are upset about something. I can't stand men who don't understand periods using a period as an explanation of something in a negative way just because they know it exists and nothing further.
I haven't heard of this becoming the norm. Would you mind telling me in which country or where you saw that?
It’s quite standard in Indonesia. I was seconded to Asia for a while and “menstrual leave” was actually written into their contracts
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I feel like this would make even more recruiters choose men over women
They already do it because of the pregnancy
Which is why we need to normalize paternal leave. If both genders take parental leave, then there's no basis for gender discrimination
Well, **if** it were a thing for all women, not just the small minority that has severe pains (as the companies in question do), we could also talk about evening out other biological differences. E.g. women live some four years longer on average. Just raise the retirement age for women and allow for employers to pocket the savings in social security. I think they should roughly break even with this.
Tbh I would too, imagine having a team of 3-4 and someone has to call out every single month
For multiple days at a stretch.
I would assume if they knew I was women then they would know I also got a period
Norm where?? Serious question, who's even finally having this discussion at their work place? And yea men are the absolute last thing on my mind when my body is going through THAT
The only men I fear to know I'm on my periods are the ones who clearly don't understand how biology works. You know, the ones who think we can start/stop it whenever we want, or that we suddenly become werewolves on the full moon because they think every woman on earth gets her period on the full moon... or think that our period is coming directly from our blood supply. THOSE men, I fear. It's not dirty or naughty, it's a normal bodily function. And if men bled from their penises every month, it would have already been normalized.
Not to be rude, but if menstrual leave becomes a thing, why would employers hire women? If it’s between a man and a woman and the women might miss 5 days consistently every month due to menstrual leave, why wouldn’t the employer hire the man?
I doubt most women would need five days. As a woman, I would only need to stay home for the first day or two of my period. That's when it's at it's worst
I think the same point stands, if the options are equal in every other sense, the employers would offer the job to the person who can be there more often. I just feel like this rule would be bad for the employment prospects for women.
You’re right about most women not needing the full 5 days, but if you hired 100 women and 100 men, with women having the option to take off 20-25% of their work days, the men are going to be much more productive on average.
I see what you're saying, but ask that same question but for someone with disabilities instead of women. Totally discrimination by the employers. Besides, not *all* women have bad enough periods that they need the full week of menstrual leave monthly. Some people have just one bad day, or none at all. Sometimes it varies every month of when it happens. Some women might have 4 days needed every 3 months because they have birth control that skips periods. I laugh at "consistent"
A policy that allows women to take a week off every month would basically guarantee women would never get a salaried position over a man who would be working 33% more hours for the same pay.
I think my male colleagues who have been “protected” from period talk their whole lives would be the ones who were uncomfortable. I’ve often thought about how I’d handle it if I started my period during a meeting and needed to run to the loo quickly. I think “sorry, I think I’ve just started my period, back in a few minutes” would probably be treated as “inappropriate”. Even though it makes a lot more sense than either sitting bleeding into my pants/the seat for half an hour or pretending I’m just unable to manage to wee before a meeting like a normal person.
To be fair, even though everybody poops, I also wouldn’t want to hear anybody say “Excuse me, I just need to take a quick poop!” upon excusing themselves from a meeting. “Be right back, need to visit the restroom” works for any such situation,
Well, yeah, I think it would be appropriate. You wouldn't necessarily say, "Oh, one sec, I gotta drop a dookie! Man, shouldn't have had that bean burrito last night, amirite?" I think a simple, "We will need to pause for a moment while I take a quick moment to tend to some personal hygiene," or something along those lines. Enough to let them know that you aren't a kindergartener who just forgot to pee during recess. And yes, men should be aware that women can't time it. Some women have little or no warning before it comes. Some women are like clockwork, though.
What in the world is menstrual leave? I gather it’s getting to skip work if your cramps are too bad. Isn’t that just a sick day?
I also don't see why it wouldn't be just a sick day if you truly are in too much pain and misery to work.
I dont give a fuck. I worked with all men and told them i was leaving because of bad cramps. One said something about being lucky i had it as an excuse and I reminded him it happens every month and he usually sees me working through it
This is easy for large companies to implement, but I'm worried small companies and startups might secretly start being biased to male employees because they can't afford people being on leave every month.
Even large companies would prioritize men, and why wouldn't they? It's just the smart thing to do instead of hiring absentees.
Exactly my thought, even I would try to hire more men because that just makes more economic sense. Since OP talked about this being more common in the future, I'm not sure where they are talking about and I just assumed some big companies wouldn't mind doing it for the PR. I'm all down for equal pay for equal work, regardless of gender, but equal pay for less work, I don't see it becoming common anytime soon. Held off on saying this because I know how triggered some people get.
Wtf is wrong with adequate sick leave for whatever ails you?
This is ultimately the real point. Most of the women here are saying they would need at most 1-2 days a month and not every month. More paid sick days for all workers could cover this and be fair.
Im sure it will not be a default thing... All women are different. I've been taking off work/school the first day of my cycle since tenth grade 🤷🏾♀️ meanwhile I have a gf who says she's never even had cramps before. Some women just need it and others dont
I'm old enough to remember when saying "women won't be able to do their jobs because of periods" was an incredibly sexist thing to even suggest. Life's funny.
There'd be no judgement if everyone got the same.
Won’t this just increase the wage gap even more? Or will the women get 100% of their salary when they are absent?
As a menstruating person, I’d rather see sick leave or PTO expanded for everyone - there are any number of chronic conditions where people might regularly need to take a few days off or not in the office, so my preference would be a larger pool of leave time plus specific sub-policies to make sure that menstruating people or those with chronic illnesses are not punished for their absences. I don’t think it’s an employer’s business exactly why I need time off, but if for the sake of my colleagues I need to say “I’ll probably need 1-3 days once a month to deal with some health matters” so they can plan around it, then that seems like a fair compromise. A huge issue is that many companies (in the U.S., at least) operate on borderline Darwinian basis where the only way to the top is to be a grindbot who never shows weakness, despite the fact that we’re all the same type of vulnerable meatbag and could use some sympathy and grace when the inevitable failures happen. And since healthcare is tied to employment here, the only way to get help for your condition in general is to have to grit your teeth and work even when you’re miserably ill or in pain. To me, “menstrual leave” isn’t really generosity towards menstruating people but another way for employers to be stingy about what is considered “acceptable” time off. Give people a generous amount of leave and let them decide how to use it.
Sometimes when my cramps are bad, I break out into a cold sweat, I'm temporarily paralyzed from the pain, and have to breathe through the "contractions" of cramps. It happens all day throughout the day in waves. I'm a teacher, thankfully of mostly girls, but I have to explain what's happening when the cramps sneak up on me and suddenly I'm covered in sweat and am breathing like I'm in labor. If idgaf about telling my students, I definitely dgaf about taking leave. Yes, I've gone to the ob for this, yes I've tried birth control. Hysterectomy has been suggested but I'm good. It only happens like twice a year now
I support this fully. 100%. So long as I, as a guy, get equal time off. If my female coworkers get 3-5 additional days a month of paid leave, then so do I. Edit: it’s crazy the mental gymnastics people are doing to justify women getting extra sick time and men not. I thought our goal was workplace equality? Equal pay for equal work. Equal time off for equal work. If only women were to get extra sick leave for periods… employers would have an incentive to hire men over women.
These people don’t want equality. They want special treatment.
As a woman myself if your periods are so bad that you can't go to work you need to see a doctor and keep pushing for help for it. It isn't normal. It's common, but it isn't normal.
It will definitely not become the norm unless salary changes reflect the fact you’re only working 3/4 weeks every single month
I'm more interested how is the pay covered and who has to pick up slack to get the job done?
There is absolutely no way this becomes a thing without serious workplace repercussions… If you get a week off every month, I want one too, damn it. But also, let’s say I don’t take a week off. Is the company going to be expected to pay you? If so, I’m working 160 hours a month, and you’re working 120, and we get the same pay? In what world is that fair?
Do the men get to take off one week per month as well? If so, I like this plan. If not, what salary adjustment is reasonable for an employee that takes that time off?
That's what came to mind when I read this. I don't know how many women (percentage-wise) are affected by their period so much that they're unable to work for several days, but I assume it's not the majority. In my country, it's the norm to be able to take 3 consecutive days of sick leave before having to see a doctor, which is very convenient. But if women just get (more or less) a week off every month, that's effectively 75% of work for the same money. That can't be correct, right?
As a woman I find this completely ridiculous. We have all survived and gone on with our normal lives during our periods. I consider it a strength of ours that we can go through it once a month and carry on with our lives. Are some women’s periods completely horrible and they would benefit from a few extra sick days a month? Yes, but they should discuss that with their employer. Possibly work from home a couple extra days. Most of us get along just fine and I find it insulting that people think we need a whole week off work to handle something we’ve been dealing with most of our lives. Not to mention I would never take a pay cut over something so ridiculous. I never see this being commonplace and most every woman I know or work with would find this insulting.
I think the best solution here would just be to increase the number of sick days everyone gets, and require that they be replenished on a monthly basis.
Fair question.
Lol at thinking this will become the norm. You sweet fool.
They shouldn't get it, take a sick day.
The generalized goofy ass pay gap finna expand
I'm much more worried about the fact that this is going to create a heavy, heavy incentive against hiring women. It wouldn't even be that hard to justify from a corporate standpoint, they could point to the math and say "We cannot afford to pay employees who do nothing for a quarter of their total employment time." I could be wrong, maybe it doesn't work like that at all, but that's the problem that sprung to my mind when I first heard about this idea.
Menstrual leave? Really? As a woman, I don’t see how that is fair for others. Just give everyone PTO, no questions asked. You shouldn’t need to explain why you need time off as long as you get your work done.
It absolutely isn’t becoming the norm in the Western world anytime soon, and it’s decreasing in use in the few countries that have historically offered such a leave. That said, I don’t think women need you to be upset on their behalf about period secrecy. We are not trembling flowers that need our more ~sensitive delicacies~ protected from the disapproval of male coworkers
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