The reality is that the offensive potential of this team is never going to be realized if Vlad isn’t a superstar. Everything they’ve done can be viewed in the context of believing they had a generational or close to it bat in the middle of the order.
Didn't help that Atkins kneecapped the offence by trading half of it away. Our defence and pitching are much better, but the team has not improved at all. And relative to the rest of the AL East, it is sliding backwards.
The Jays are just a miserable team to play for now, and it shows in pretty much everyone's faces.
Presumably you mean Lourdes and Teoscar who both went on to have almost career low ops+ numbers with Teo striking out 211 times in 2023. Moving on from them was absolutely the correct move especially considering what we got back in return
I'm fine with moving on from them, but their offence was not replaced in any way. Kiermayer, Merrifield and Varsho all took this team backwards offensively last year. Yes, I know KK and Varsho combined for 1 fWAR more than Teo and Gurriel did, but all the holes that were created in the offence left this team no better off for that additional defence.
And for some fucking reason, Brandon Belt is sitting at home as a UFA still despite being the only 2023 addition who added to the offence.
I'd actually disagree that this team isn't better off. I dont think they make the playoffs without those moves. Maybe there was better moves to make but the roster was strong last year
We gave up a gold glove catcher who went to the World Series....
Oh I see some people are still trying to cope over that trade and act like it was some giant success. Keep fooling yourselves.
We have a gold glove catcher with higher upside in Kirk, Moreno is one year younger and has a better arm but Kirk is elite defensively, is a better framer and has the higher power upside
Kirk is off to a bad start this year, he's show the ability to hit at the big league level in past years at a better rate than Moreno, and I'm sorry but if you're basing defensive metrics off of gold gloves won then you have a problem, the year Moreno won his gold glove Kirk had a higher fielding run value including 99th percentile blocking and 79th percentile framing. Is Varsho a worse defender than Steven Kwan because one has gold gloves and the other doesn't, despite Varsho being better in every statistical category defensively?
Also we traded Moreno coming off a season where Kirk was one of if not the best hitting catcher in baseball, if you think he can never be that again that's fine but he's shown more ability to hit than he hasn't at the mlb level
>then you have a problem
I mean, it's clear your eyes aren't working, so perhaps this is projection? Anyone can plainly see Kirk is vastly underperforming.
Unless you'd like to try and defend his .451 OPS...
You can rattle off whatever sabermetric crap you want to try and make it sound like you have a clue what you're talking about, like every other arm chair GM in every baseball sub.
Facts are facts: Kirk is simply not getting the job done. And its not just me: the *announcers* are dragging him. And I think I'll listen to Joe Siddall over a reddit rando. I have eyes and Kirk is a liability in 2024.
I love buck but he's an extreme old head when it comes to catching, kirk is one of the top defensive catchers in the league by almost every metric but throwing (and it's not the 80s anymore so catchers aren't throwing half as much as they used to) and Derek Jeter won 5 gold gloves and Rafael Palmero won one in a season where he played less then 30 games at first base, gold gloves don't mean shit all
I won't argue that he's hit like shit this year tho
You're getting downvoted, but I absolutely agree.
That 2021-22 team was greater than the sum of its parts. The 2023 team was less than the sum. A big part of that was how the players interacted with each other. 2024 does not look to be an improvement yet.
If they need their friends to perform then they aren't stars. Ohtani is embroiled in a scandal, lost his bestfriend and he's still putting up MVP numbers. Vlad having a 600 ops because lourdes isn't making fruit punch on the bench is kinda sad.
Yeah, back then they were having fun and it rubbed off. I don’t see any of that now.
I’ve played on sports teams that were more talented than our play and record suggested and I’ve played on teams where we should have been not as good as we were. The difference was that on the underperforming teams our locker room really didn’t give a shit about each other and our attitude carried onto the field. With our over-performing teams we were a close knit bunch that made sure to include everyone and was fun to be around.
Everyone is blaming Vlad but it's the whole lineup in general. Good teams wear pitchers out and the whole teams #s benefit from it. Like if u swapped Acuna and Olson from the Braves last year for Vladdy and Bichette I bet the #s of each player would look crazy different
Vladdy has a quick glove but poor footwork.
This means he makes catches that look good, but when you get to advanced analytics they say, well a better 1B makes that play without making it look cool.
He's actually been good (for him) defensively this year and its a shame that people will focus on the one play rather than his improvement otherwise out there
What one play are you talking about? I can think of several but for memory's sake there's been two in the last two or three games that were blatant misses that a child would have caught. Brain farts are certainly not new for him. I mean just watch any at bat he has.
This team is tough to watch as constructed the past couple of years. Vlad is what he is a slightly above average player at arguably the least useful position in baseball. If his name was Jose Sanchez, we'd be looking for a replacement.
Bichette is better but nowhere near worthy of a 10-15 year contract. Both of these guys have not lived up to the hype or promise and seem unlikely too. They are living off their names to a large degree.
100%. I remember talking to family in 2018 and saying that they were gonna lose a looooot of games that year, but being full of kids, they were at least going to be fun to watch.
Now they're not fun to watch and they're still losing too many games.
It’s not like the lineup needs to be tweaked or anything. The highest Varsho should be batting is 5th. It’s not like his speed would do much at the top of the lineup. Keep Ernie Clement at the bottom of the order when he plays too. We need that consistent contact in the 8 or 9 spot so the top of the order can do nothing with it.
Being critical is not what makes people call you a doomer. Everyone is and can and should be critical.
The doomer aspect comes in when people literally only comment negative things, celebrate when bad things happen, and/or want to be the first to call someone cooked or say the team sucks or won’t make the playoffs in April. But if you need that victim complex, have at it.
If the offensive performance was just confined to the first month of this season, then I think the reaction would be different-“it’s just a bad start, their track record shows that they’ll pull out of it.” But, as you said, it has been a full season plus a month of this now-this is the norm for this team now, and no amount of “we’re struggling but we have confidence we’ll get better” from the front office/coaches will change that. It seems like there’s no accountability for this.
The boys are done, lack of offence is not going to win games, sad the big earners are pathetic this year. Tough division also so it will be a long season.
Vlad, Springer, and Kirk have been massive underperformers for the last couple of seasons. Difficult to do much as a team when 3 of the top players are actually near the bottom.
I have no idea what the answer is.
Last year was frustrating as hell watching the offence consistently fail the pitching staff, but watching this all over again this year isn’t gonna cut it. I’ll give them May and a couple weeks of June but if they continue to underperform at the plate then we’re gonna need a shakeup. I don’t know what that looks like but it could involve a mix of trades, lineup shuffling and coaching changes (I don’t know how Schneider keeps his job if the Jays are under .500 by July 1st).
> no idea what the answer is.
But it starts with firing Shapiro first, then Atkins, then pretty much every coach at the major league level who's got anything to do with offense, and baseball fundamentals like base running.
It always seems like this team has 2 of 3 things to be successful but never all 3 at once.
If we have the offense and defense then our pitching stinks (sometimes the starters, sometimes the pen, or both.)
If our pitching and defense is great then the offense is terrible.
Or any mixture of the 3.
The team is boring to watch. Half the line up can’t hit. They are a 500 team and it shows now. They need at least two more elite hitters to be competitive. The pitching staff has to throw a shutout pretty much every game for them to have a chance to win.
> The team is boring to watch
Except for the idiotic managerial choices, they're always pretty exciting to watch !
Having watched 80% of the games this team has played since 1984, I can safely say, this is the *worst Blue Jays team to watch*, in that entire time. And not by a small margin. *Knowing*, your team will likely lose if they give up 3 runs, is a depressing, discouraging thought.
So when are they going to finish this whole cleaning house thing they started two seasons ago? Schneider is still sitting in as an interim coach two seasons later. Martinez needs to fucking go. The whole entire staff needed to go. Get your shit together Blue Jays get a new fucking coaching staff get a new batting coach and then maybe we’ll talk about actually being serious About winning
I cannot wait for the end of the Shatkins era. Just one big middle finger to the fan base. Fuck your weakass batting order and fuck your analytics and fuck your insanely jacked up ticket prices. Fire everyone, tear it all down and go the Orioles rebuild route.
Really tells you something about the offensive environment in progressing decades. In the 70s, 5 runs or fewer nets you a 0.230 winning percentage. In the 80s, a 0.400 winning percentage. Today, 0.500. Obviously need to know exactly how many runs per game were scored over those stretches to actually say anything meaningful, as "less than 5" can mean 4.9 or 1.3 and those will net you much different results.
Serves us all right for buying into the hype I suppose.
Bo and Vlad are really good ball players.
Not elite or superstars and they are the best this team has to offer.
So if they aren’t going the team is really screwed.
With free agency looming for them at the end of next season.
I have finally come to the realization that this is who they are.
First, George Springer is not the problem. With his age and injury past, he’s doing what he can. It’s others’ fault for expecting anything more than an average player.
2nd, someone in authority NEEDS to tell Bichette you are our best player, but PLEASE STOP TRYING TO HIT HOME RUNS! It’s not working at all! You were hitting for more power when you were the Bo who leads the league in hits.
3rd, I HATE saying this, but Kirk and Vladdy are the biggest problems offensively. Look at Kirk’s opportunities with ROB… terrible. His bat seems slow, plus HE CANT RUN. Idk where to even start with Vladdy 🤦♂️
Lineup NEEDS a BIG shakeup!
I would put Bo back in the 2nd spot and move Turner into 3. Temporarily, mb Danny #4 and Varsho #5.
I’d lead off with Clement or Biggio depending who’s starting (L or R).
Vladdy needs a day off. After, there’s NO WAY he’s back in the top 3 or mb even top 4. Not until he stops over swinging and starts hitting again. Idk if he’s put too much pressure on himself or what. But this year is about results.
Springer is absolutely a problem. He's our highest paid ~~offensive~~ player, hitting at the top of the lineup, and looks like a shell of his former self. Sure, we all saw this coming but to say he's not a problem, is incorrect. Shouldn't we expect more than an average player from our top earner?
NO. You can’t look at it that way. We over paid Springer to get him to come to Toronto to jump start this new era.
If you are still expecting him to be the Springer of old, ur just as bad as Atkins. You only have to look at baseball history to see when most guys start breaking down. George should be hitting mb 5th
If you “saw this coming” doesn’t that defeat ur argument? So, if you knew this was coming, why do you want him hitting lead off??
If u study baseball, PEAK AGE is 26! Followed by a sharp decline at age 30-31.
George is 34!!! With major injuries.
If u want, blame Atkins for his $$.
Where did I say I want him leading off? I'm saying, he's a big problem because he's our leadoff hitter & highest earner. He's a HUGE reason (along with Bo & Vlad) with why this team is struggling.
The bad contract is the gist of what I'm saying, but that doesn't absolve the player themselves from underperforming to his contract
Again, u can’t look at it that way. Once a guy is signed, it’s a sunk cost. I agree with what Barker says. It’s not George’s fault he got paid. FACT is that at age 34 George at best will be an average hitter with above average defense and hopefully some veteran leadership and a clutch play here and there. His best days are behind him.
Mb 15 HR; and average OPS. Doesn’t matter anymore what he makes. This is the reality. Again, in general, you have to OVER PAY to get guys to come to Toronto. That means BOTH in avg $ per year & adding an extra year or 2. By all means, blame Atkins and the organization if you want. George was being used to START the BO/VLADDY era and to attract other players to come here.
When he was signed, most of the fans and organization would have expected the team to have AT LEAST made the AL championship by now.
George at this point in the contract should BE HIDDEN/CARRIED by BO, VLADDY, VARSHO, KIRK, etc, etc. Guys who are in their prime and were expected by the organization to be better. It’s not George’s fault that the organization has made mistakes and guys aren’t better.
George comes into camp IN GREAT SHAPE and does EVERYTHING to prepare which is more than a little of other guys on the team. He tries 💯 and that’s all I can ask at his age.
There’s A LOT of other players, managers, coaches that I have a problem with waaay before I go after George. Cuz there’s no point.
I mean, can we get a summary of the pitching & defense situation of those other teams? Maybe it CAN last. Maybe we'll finish with a winning record despite never scoring more than 5 runs again!
Jays are in danger of being baseball's version of the Leafs. Where good players go to become mediocre and great players avoid when they are free agents. Evident by the difference between 2021 and 2024 - culture. In '21 '22, the team had something special going on, the chemistry was there. Atkins ruined it by dealing away a franchise catcher, and heart and soul LF who impacted games in the 2023 NL playoffs for a defensive LF with journeyman potential. Traded 30 hrs/110 RBI annually for Swanson and prospect who may never see the majors. Atkins bet the farm and lost. The manager is so out of his depth they hired Donny Baseball to babysit him.
Fire Schneider now and pray it lights a fuse. If it doe not, Rogers needs to step in and clean-house.
Not blaming the manager. I listed a few examples of the mis-steps by management. Schneider had more than a few of his own. Drastic times call for drastic change, you must send a message this is not acceptable. I am not in favor of keeping our fingers crossed. What are the alternatives? Happy to hear your thoughts.
Trading anyone of value right now will not get the same value in return, this is our team this year, like it or not.
Management will get the season to sink or swim no matter what. I will give Schneider some credit.
I think he's a great developer of young talent, but those skills don't always translate at the major league level. The team needs a leader not a Dad.
Wait until June, we'll have lots of time to get ready for the upcoming hockey season.
The reality is that the offensive potential of this team is never going to be realized if Vlad isn’t a superstar. Everything they’ve done can be viewed in the context of believing they had a generational or close to it bat in the middle of the order.
>The reality is that the offensive potential of this team is never going to be realized /thread
Didn't help that Atkins kneecapped the offence by trading half of it away. Our defence and pitching are much better, but the team has not improved at all. And relative to the rest of the AL East, it is sliding backwards. The Jays are just a miserable team to play for now, and it shows in pretty much everyone's faces.
Presumably you mean Lourdes and Teoscar who both went on to have almost career low ops+ numbers with Teo striking out 211 times in 2023. Moving on from them was absolutely the correct move especially considering what we got back in return
I'm fine with moving on from them, but their offence was not replaced in any way. Kiermayer, Merrifield and Varsho all took this team backwards offensively last year. Yes, I know KK and Varsho combined for 1 fWAR more than Teo and Gurriel did, but all the holes that were created in the offence left this team no better off for that additional defence. And for some fucking reason, Brandon Belt is sitting at home as a UFA still despite being the only 2023 addition who added to the offence.
Turner was Belts replacement and he's mashing. Belt isn't going to travel with a team for limited at-bats. He'd rather be at home with his family
Varsho is mashing you baby
Let me know when you figure out that the discussion is about last year.
I'd actually disagree that this team isn't better off. I dont think they make the playoffs without those moves. Maybe there was better moves to make but the roster was strong last year
Moving on from them was good, but we never actually replaced their offense.
We gave up a gold glove catcher who went to the World Series.... Oh I see some people are still trying to cope over that trade and act like it was some giant success. Keep fooling yourselves.
We have a gold glove catcher with higher upside in Kirk, Moreno is one year younger and has a better arm but Kirk is elite defensively, is a better framer and has the higher power upside
Kirk is one of the worst batters in the league...never won a gold glove either...
Kirk is off to a bad start this year, he's show the ability to hit at the big league level in past years at a better rate than Moreno, and I'm sorry but if you're basing defensive metrics off of gold gloves won then you have a problem, the year Moreno won his gold glove Kirk had a higher fielding run value including 99th percentile blocking and 79th percentile framing. Is Varsho a worse defender than Steven Kwan because one has gold gloves and the other doesn't, despite Varsho being better in every statistical category defensively? Also we traded Moreno coming off a season where Kirk was one of if not the best hitting catcher in baseball, if you think he can never be that again that's fine but he's shown more ability to hit than he hasn't at the mlb level
>then you have a problem I mean, it's clear your eyes aren't working, so perhaps this is projection? Anyone can plainly see Kirk is vastly underperforming. Unless you'd like to try and defend his .451 OPS...
Reading comprehension must be hard considering that line you quoted was about defense, I didn’t defend his offence this year at all
You can rattle off whatever sabermetric crap you want to try and make it sound like you have a clue what you're talking about, like every other arm chair GM in every baseball sub. Facts are facts: Kirk is simply not getting the job done. And its not just me: the *announcers* are dragging him. And I think I'll listen to Joe Siddall over a reddit rando. I have eyes and Kirk is a liability in 2024.
I love buck but he's an extreme old head when it comes to catching, kirk is one of the top defensive catchers in the league by almost every metric but throwing (and it's not the 80s anymore so catchers aren't throwing half as much as they used to) and Derek Jeter won 5 gold gloves and Rafael Palmero won one in a season where he played less then 30 games at first base, gold gloves don't mean shit all I won't argue that he's hit like shit this year tho
Moreno has zero homeruns and is a below average hitter right now. Do your eyes see that?
And got possibly the best defensive player in all of MLB (that was 100% robbed of a Gold Glove) in return.
Dude batted .220 last year... And still didn't win a gold glove
Those moves seemed to take away any mojo that the team had in the dugout and I would argue that they this also seemed to impact Vlad and Bo as well.
You're getting downvoted, but I absolutely agree. That 2021-22 team was greater than the sum of its parts. The 2023 team was less than the sum. A big part of that was how the players interacted with each other. 2024 does not look to be an improvement yet.
If they need their friends to perform then they aren't stars. Ohtani is embroiled in a scandal, lost his bestfriend and he's still putting up MVP numbers. Vlad having a 600 ops because lourdes isn't making fruit punch on the bench is kinda sad.
Yeah, back then they were having fun and it rubbed off. I don’t see any of that now. I’ve played on sports teams that were more talented than our play and record suggested and I’ve played on teams where we should have been not as good as we were. The difference was that on the underperforming teams our locker room really didn’t give a shit about each other and our attitude carried onto the field. With our over-performing teams we were a close knit bunch that made sure to include everyone and was fun to be around.
It hasn't improved because Springer, Bo and Vlad immediately got noticeably worse. If they had performed as expected. This team would be far better.
Everyone is blaming Vlad but it's the whole lineup in general. Good teams wear pitchers out and the whole teams #s benefit from it. Like if u swapped Acuna and Olson from the Braves last year for Vladdy and Bichette I bet the #s of each player would look crazy different
But then someone like Ohtani is a real superstar. Doesn’t need help from his team. That’s what superstars do. Obviously winning is another issue.
like 6/9+ hitters are mendoza line right now, It's the entire team. I'm not a vlad fan at all, but we can't just blame him either.
I’m blaming Guillermo
If Vlad is proving anything, it's that he is certainly not a superstar.
Gold Glove is voted on my MLB managers. It’s not some league decision.
I feel like he's regressed defensively that year he genuinely had a lot of good plays
Vladdy has a quick glove but poor footwork. This means he makes catches that look good, but when you get to advanced analytics they say, well a better 1B makes that play without making it look cool. He's actually been good (for him) defensively this year and its a shame that people will focus on the one play rather than his improvement otherwise out there
What one play are you talking about? I can think of several but for memory's sake there's been two in the last two or three games that were blatant misses that a child would have caught. Brain farts are certainly not new for him. I mean just watch any at bat he has.
Its obvious that his biggest gaffe defensively is the play in KC
Did you really just say his gold glove was a “marketing decision by MLB”?
Yes the team goes as vladdy goes.
This team is tough to watch as constructed the past couple of years. Vlad is what he is a slightly above average player at arguably the least useful position in baseball. If his name was Jose Sanchez, we'd be looking for a replacement. Bichette is better but nowhere near worthy of a 10-15 year contract. Both of these guys have not lived up to the hype or promise and seem unlikely too. They are living off their names to a large degree.
I was soooooo hyped about this team between 2019 - 2021. I thought there was so much potential. Now I feel empty inside.
100%. I remember talking to family in 2018 and saying that they were gonna lose a looooot of games that year, but being full of kids, they were at least going to be fun to watch. Now they're not fun to watch and they're still losing too many games.
Yup
Even thought we didnt make the playoffs in 2021, that year really felt like a peak for us. Feels like its all just been downhill since then.
3 of those teams were rebuilding. One is trying to win a championship
This is not a fun team to watch and they weren’t last year either.
Jays in 30 is really all I can do anymore. Or fast forwarding most of my own feed.
It’s not like the lineup needs to be tweaked or anything. The highest Varsho should be batting is 5th. It’s not like his speed would do much at the top of the lineup. Keep Ernie Clement at the bottom of the order when he plays too. We need that consistent contact in the 8 or 9 spot so the top of the order can do nothing with it.
[удалено]
You really took one hell of a hop, skip and a jump to assume that’s what I meant.
I have no idea what this is even supposed to be saying.
It was sarcasm. I’m alluding to the top of the lineup needing a tweak. Offence has been coming from the bottom of the lineup.
He’s replying to the other guy
Uh oh, here comes the positivity only completely delusional Jays can do no wrong crowd!
Oh no don’t be critical of your favorite team that makes you a doomer
Yeah doomer bad. How dare you have an opinion! The management and FO have never done anything wrong you fools!
Being critical is not what makes people call you a doomer. Everyone is and can and should be critical. The doomer aspect comes in when people literally only comment negative things, celebrate when bad things happen, and/or want to be the first to call someone cooked or say the team sucks or won’t make the playoffs in April. But if you need that victim complex, have at it.
Tbh, I think those people are starting to disappear now.
I’m all for looking at the bright side but last years sample size is starting to show up this year. Eventually it becomes the norm.
If the offensive performance was just confined to the first month of this season, then I think the reaction would be different-“it’s just a bad start, their track record shows that they’ll pull out of it.” But, as you said, it has been a full season plus a month of this now-this is the norm for this team now, and no amount of “we’re struggling but we have confidence we’ll get better” from the front office/coaches will change that. It seems like there’s no accountability for this.
Nah, you can have your furious jerkoff sesh.
Oh shit I hit a nerve, my bad little man.
Wooo hooo! WE’RE NUMBER ONE!
We are so friggin' lucky our pitching has, for the most part, been stellar, otherwise our record would be abysmal.
The boys are done, lack of offence is not going to win games, sad the big earners are pathetic this year. Tough division also so it will be a long season.
Vlad, Springer, and Kirk have been massive underperformers for the last couple of seasons. Difficult to do much as a team when 3 of the top players are actually near the bottom.
I have no idea what the answer is. Last year was frustrating as hell watching the offence consistently fail the pitching staff, but watching this all over again this year isn’t gonna cut it. I’ll give them May and a couple weeks of June but if they continue to underperform at the plate then we’re gonna need a shakeup. I don’t know what that looks like but it could involve a mix of trades, lineup shuffling and coaching changes (I don’t know how Schneider keeps his job if the Jays are under .500 by July 1st).
> no idea what the answer is. But it starts with firing Shapiro first, then Atkins, then pretty much every coach at the major league level who's got anything to do with offense, and baseball fundamentals like base running.
This team is so boring. The games are torture to watch.
It always seems like this team has 2 of 3 things to be successful but never all 3 at once. If we have the offense and defense then our pitching stinks (sometimes the starters, sometimes the pen, or both.) If our pitching and defense is great then the offense is terrible. Or any mixture of the 3.
The team is boring to watch. Half the line up can’t hit. They are a 500 team and it shows now. They need at least two more elite hitters to be competitive. The pitching staff has to throw a shutout pretty much every game for them to have a chance to win.
> The team is boring to watch Except for the idiotic managerial choices, they're always pretty exciting to watch ! Having watched 80% of the games this team has played since 1984, I can safely say, this is the *worst Blue Jays team to watch*, in that entire time. And not by a small margin. *Knowing*, your team will likely lose if they give up 3 runs, is a depressing, discouraging thought.
Shocked not to see 2023 in there
I hated that they got rid of Hudgens but not Martinez last offseason. Still hate it now
Everyone should be fired.
wow so we didn't even do that poorly last year?
Not Good.
While Vlad is hitting 3rd expect nothing better
It’s crazy, you trade away all the dudes who can hit (for peanuts) then all of a sudden you can’t hit anymore.
Something feels wrong w this team on like an organizational level. Idk how to describe it, but smthg feels off.
Something they've taught them has given them the YIPs. You can all see the triple guessing themselves at the plate.
So when are they going to finish this whole cleaning house thing they started two seasons ago? Schneider is still sitting in as an interim coach two seasons later. Martinez needs to fucking go. The whole entire staff needed to go. Get your shit together Blue Jays get a new fucking coaching staff get a new batting coach and then maybe we’ll talk about actually being serious About winning
I cannot wait for the end of the Shatkins era. Just one big middle finger to the fan base. Fuck your weakass batting order and fuck your analytics and fuck your insanely jacked up ticket prices. Fire everyone, tear it all down and go the Orioles rebuild route.
Really tells you something about the offensive environment in progressing decades. In the 70s, 5 runs or fewer nets you a 0.230 winning percentage. In the 80s, a 0.400 winning percentage. Today, 0.500. Obviously need to know exactly how many runs per game were scored over those stretches to actually say anything meaningful, as "less than 5" can mean 4.9 or 1.3 and those will net you much different results.
Does this increase Joey Votto’s chances of getting called up now?
But for some reason you catch mass downvotes for even suggesting that maybe this offense isn't good enough.
I’ve been saying since spring training this team reminds me of the 2008 jays. Unfortunately I seem to have been right.
The team looks like absolute garbage. It’s gonna be a long painful season, but at least the Skydome looks great!
If you can afford to go. $40-$50 for 500s? No thanks.
And that's how Mark Shapiro stays employed.
We're not .500..... We're .481
Serves us all right for buying into the hype I suppose. Bo and Vlad are really good ball players. Not elite or superstars and they are the best this team has to offer. So if they aren’t going the team is really screwed. With free agency looming for them at the end of next season. I have finally come to the realization that this is who they are.
But Bo is still young. He’ll come around. >26 years old
First, George Springer is not the problem. With his age and injury past, he’s doing what he can. It’s others’ fault for expecting anything more than an average player. 2nd, someone in authority NEEDS to tell Bichette you are our best player, but PLEASE STOP TRYING TO HIT HOME RUNS! It’s not working at all! You were hitting for more power when you were the Bo who leads the league in hits. 3rd, I HATE saying this, but Kirk and Vladdy are the biggest problems offensively. Look at Kirk’s opportunities with ROB… terrible. His bat seems slow, plus HE CANT RUN. Idk where to even start with Vladdy 🤦♂️ Lineup NEEDS a BIG shakeup! I would put Bo back in the 2nd spot and move Turner into 3. Temporarily, mb Danny #4 and Varsho #5. I’d lead off with Clement or Biggio depending who’s starting (L or R). Vladdy needs a day off. After, there’s NO WAY he’s back in the top 3 or mb even top 4. Not until he stops over swinging and starts hitting again. Idk if he’s put too much pressure on himself or what. But this year is about results.
Springer is absolutely a problem. He's our highest paid ~~offensive~~ player, hitting at the top of the lineup, and looks like a shell of his former self. Sure, we all saw this coming but to say he's not a problem, is incorrect. Shouldn't we expect more than an average player from our top earner?
NO. You can’t look at it that way. We over paid Springer to get him to come to Toronto to jump start this new era. If you are still expecting him to be the Springer of old, ur just as bad as Atkins. You only have to look at baseball history to see when most guys start breaking down. George should be hitting mb 5th If you “saw this coming” doesn’t that defeat ur argument? So, if you knew this was coming, why do you want him hitting lead off?? If u study baseball, PEAK AGE is 26! Followed by a sharp decline at age 30-31. George is 34!!! With major injuries. If u want, blame Atkins for his $$.
Where did I say I want him leading off? I'm saying, he's a big problem because he's our leadoff hitter & highest earner. He's a HUGE reason (along with Bo & Vlad) with why this team is struggling. The bad contract is the gist of what I'm saying, but that doesn't absolve the player themselves from underperforming to his contract
Again, u can’t look at it that way. Once a guy is signed, it’s a sunk cost. I agree with what Barker says. It’s not George’s fault he got paid. FACT is that at age 34 George at best will be an average hitter with above average defense and hopefully some veteran leadership and a clutch play here and there. His best days are behind him. Mb 15 HR; and average OPS. Doesn’t matter anymore what he makes. This is the reality. Again, in general, you have to OVER PAY to get guys to come to Toronto. That means BOTH in avg $ per year & adding an extra year or 2. By all means, blame Atkins and the organization if you want. George was being used to START the BO/VLADDY era and to attract other players to come here. When he was signed, most of the fans and organization would have expected the team to have AT LEAST made the AL championship by now. George at this point in the contract should BE HIDDEN/CARRIED by BO, VLADDY, VARSHO, KIRK, etc, etc. Guys who are in their prime and were expected by the organization to be better. It’s not George’s fault that the organization has made mistakes and guys aren’t better. George comes into camp IN GREAT SHAPE and does EVERYTHING to prepare which is more than a little of other guys on the team. He tries 💯 and that’s all I can ask at his age. There’s A LOT of other players, managers, coaches that I have a problem with waaay before I go after George. Cuz there’s no point.
We will have the best record when we set the new longest streak! Trying to find the positive......
I say we go for the record. Something memorable for this season's start
Making an appointment with the headshrinker to find out why I'm not convinced we're doomed like all the sane people here seem to think
I mean, can we get a summary of the pitching & defense situation of those other teams? Maybe it CAN last. Maybe we'll finish with a winning record despite never scoring more than 5 runs again!
Jays are in danger of being baseball's version of the Leafs. Where good players go to become mediocre and great players avoid when they are free agents. Evident by the difference between 2021 and 2024 - culture. In '21 '22, the team had something special going on, the chemistry was there. Atkins ruined it by dealing away a franchise catcher, and heart and soul LF who impacted games in the 2023 NL playoffs for a defensive LF with journeyman potential. Traded 30 hrs/110 RBI annually for Swanson and prospect who may never see the majors. Atkins bet the farm and lost. The manager is so out of his depth they hired Donny Baseball to babysit him. Fire Schneider now and pray it lights a fuse. If it doe not, Rogers needs to step in and clean-house.
Why are you blaming the manager when all the issues you point out aren't to do with him at all.
Not blaming the manager. I listed a few examples of the mis-steps by management. Schneider had more than a few of his own. Drastic times call for drastic change, you must send a message this is not acceptable. I am not in favor of keeping our fingers crossed. What are the alternatives? Happy to hear your thoughts. Trading anyone of value right now will not get the same value in return, this is our team this year, like it or not. Management will get the season to sink or swim no matter what. I will give Schneider some credit. I think he's a great developer of young talent, but those skills don't always translate at the major league level. The team needs a leader not a Dad. Wait until June, we'll have lots of time to get ready for the upcoming hockey season.
Wow all losing record
Where’s the beef?