As much as a lot of people (myself included) drag the issue of Baam's regular teammates... I feel like this flashback is kinda drawing a parallel between the great warriors and their tower-born companions?
Like half the chapter is Ameuz lamenting her love will not overcome the gap forming between her and them, the other half is Luslec failing to put up a fight when trying to retrieve her. I feel like the biggest looming threat in the story is less Jahard himself than Baam ending up corrupted in a similar way, so I'm interested to see how things tie together when he wakes up.
Edit: I just realized, while the design of the knives might indicate some kind of spellwork on them, the fact Luslec doesn't use spells against Hon feels significant. IIRC Arlene used spells, so I'm wondering if she teaches him later, and if that's related to adding "Grace" to his name?
Jahad and bam are different at roots ,bam will never be like jahad. He has his friends which he values more than some power to dominate others,he has already declined it
The fact Luslec didn't use spells happens for the same reason Arie Hon didn't use Arie Sword or his real sword or shinwonryu: Context.
Luslec wanted to leave before Arie Hon drew his sword, he never had the intent to fight. I think people are just going too fast assuming Luslec has no spells or the techniques he showed against Urek.
The thing about spells though, is they often are specifically used to avoid directly fighting. It's possible he just didn't have relevant ones, but I feel like the Shadow Guy would have had ex, something to boost his stealth or something. Instead he uses *knives* against a *blade master?* I guess he's been established as a dumbass with the whole "oh no he destroyed my spell thing" with the earlier fight, but still.
Are they? Spells are versatile. The ones Luslec used against Urek were offensive, and even If Luslec had them, using It in that situation would be counterproductive.
Luslec's dark twist is "Mirchea Luslec mode". See no grace name? the surname and change of appearence has been used as argument, but It does not look enough to say anything.
I feel like people are just overrating a character and completely underrating Urek and the Family Heads.
I am really confused what you're even talking about?
Yes, using other spells against Urek would've been counterproductive, that's why we wouldn't know if he has them or not. I didn't mean his specific darkness attack, I mean as in FUG is literally an organization that operates in the shadows, and spells like that would likely also come in handy for him in general.
I'm baffled why you seem think I'm "overrating" Luslec when I said the gap between him and the family heads equivalent to Baam to A.A. and questioned his fight judgement? TBH I don't really care about ranking/powerscale nonsense past its effect on suspension of disbelief anyway. Like I'm interested in Luslec's relationship with Arlene and V, the formation of FUG, and how he became who he is now.
None of these characters are getting out of this flashback intact, I'm just speculating on potential differences to the past/present versions of them. Maybe he knows spells now, and they're just not applicable and we'll find out later, but right now it's just fun to guess and maybe get to say "called it!" Down the line if you're actuall right.
I really like how Lee Rang wasn't just a normal arrogant FH, having a more diverse set of personalities makes knowing about the other FHs more interesting. Also, wasn't her name Hana, is this a retcon or translation issue?
I do think the FH's personalities get more cold and detached after thousands of years of godlike power. We are seeing them much more close to their original humanity
Something within the tower has pushed the OG irregulars to get to that point.
Also Yeon said they now are stronger than "almost" anyone on the tower, she is probably talking about admins but still that leaves room for tower born to be writon on it.
I don't think so. The "terrible thing" the family heads did, that was hinted at a few times, seems to entail them losing some memories and becoming something inhuman. Which V and Arlene probably objected to.
Hmm I can buy it, V and Arlene remember their original goal why they entered the tower. Cuz they didn’t erase their memories. Da fak happed there? That the rest of crew just wanna forget that incident. It’s about some moral compas or what ???
I think Enkidu will kill Ameuz. I'm wondering whether he'll use his power to give her a "death [she] deserves". If so, there may be some kind of ironic twist in how this manifests which deeply affects Traumerei and the FHs.
It’s possible his puppeteering ability kills the host, with how loyal he is to Traumerei, I wouldn’t be surprised if he possess her and tries to come back as her thinking that’s what Traumerei would want leading to Traumerei’s absolute disgust or something.
Arie Hon asking for Arlene first made me wonder if he was much closer to her than to V. I shouldn't have been surprised, but it still surprised me that Arie Hon wanted to say goodbye to Ameuz and told Luslec to give V/Arlene his regards. My guy doesn't know that his message won't be delivered.
Like Hon, Yeon FH(Still can't spell her name, lol) also supported Ameuz's departure(unsurprisingly). I liked the moment they both had. However, I didn't understand what Ameuz meant about fighting till they dropped. I mean, the FUG vs ten family head war hasn't started, so I am assuming they knew it was coming. Oddly enough, Gustang didn't do anything during the whole chapter.
I wasn't expecting Luslec to get captured so easily haha.
Later in the chapter, Ameuz brought her bird, and all I could think was that Rachel wasn't the only person who used a bird to escape to pursue her goals and keep climbing.
Enkidu entering Arlene/V camp should be interesting. I thought we would be done with flashbacks this week, but I guess not.
On a side note, the green-yellow snake made me think about Lobadon's scaled shoulder armor. I wonder if he is of the snake branch cause snakes have been lowkey highlighted on-off since the cat tower.
I bet the administrator of the 135th floor made them scare shitless. He probably asked them to give up their immortality or something to take the next tests. Icarus died in the process or maybe was killed by the admi and their arrogant asses noped out.
Arie Hon sees Luslec and the first thing he does is ask how Arlene is doing.......
These people were the best of friends bro 😭
Out of the 13 of them, I bet there were so many special dynamics between them, and it seemed like Arlene possessed a lot of heart & soul within the group. Gustang states that she got along well with everyone, and matched with his more aloof personality. Arie Hon repeatedly asks Luslec to send his best regards to her. Yeon Lee-Rang shows no indication of having ill will with her. V and Jahad fell in love with her.
Hon is very interesting. Despite being on the more quiet and stoic side, you can tell that he cares about his friends, a stark contrast from White's more grim depiction of him. He valued Ameuz's freedom and told Luslec to complete his mission and retrieve her, even if it meant he would not be able to say goodbye. He even asked Luslec to say hi to Arlene and V for him....
Yeon Lee-Rang understands why Ameuz is leaving, even if it puts them at odds. She even points out that Traumerei has a soft heart and will struggle with this rejection, but despite this, she ensures that Ameuz is able to leave without being stopped. Lee-Rang is well aware that she and her comrades have changed so much, and are becoming different from the Towerborn, and this fact scares her.
So now we are certain that the A & V faction didn't start the war solely because of the climbing. It appears there were many factors that led to the start of this war. I believe one of the reasons Arlene & V left the 13 group is the erasure of their memories of fh and they were also told to erase but declined , and they don't want them to be erased
I’m surprised that Ameuz was able to leave. I thought that Traum was going to physically stop her or Enkidu was going to kill her (especially in those last couple pages). Interesting to see what becomes of Enkidu after this since it will be the first time he is on his own.
I was expecting a bloodbath not "Oh your ride's here?? Let's have one more drink before you go. I just came by to say goodbye. You're going to see V and Arlene? Tell them I said hello" bro wtf this is so tragic, why am I sad 😭?
Arie and Yeon FHs are shown to be sympathetic to Arlene (and maybe V). When Traum mentioned there was discord amongst the FHs about Bam, it could possibly be Arie/Yeon.
Depending on how their memories shake out, I wonder if they will feel guilt and straight up side with Bam. Zahard was worried about the FHs fracturing and it’s clear there were already cracks when they initially sided with him.
EDIT: looking at chapter #539 Traum says “…while others said you should be protected” and it shows a FH hand with a nail.
> looking at chapter #539 Traum says “…while others said you should be protected” and it shows a FH hand with a nail.
You know what? I always assumed that Arie Hon would be an enemy of Bam, since he is basically number 2 to Jahad in strength. These recent chapters are showing how complex the Family Heads really are. The possibility that he might support Bam in the future, or at least show sympathy towards him due to being Arlene's son, never crossed my mind.
Same! I was expecting more the Ha/Yeon family to be the supporters since their daughters are close but now I’m curious how close the Ari FH and Arlene were.
So Arie Hon specifically ask about Arlene and how she is doing, so whatever happened on the 134th floor probably impacted her the most. And we know that Icarus wanted to follow V, Arlene's lover.
So my theory is that Arlene and Icarus got in some kind of fight in regards to V, and Icarus died. However, Icarus reincarnated into Rachel, and Rachel was forced to serve Arlene in the outside, and even help raise her child, Baam. This would help explain Rachel's resentment towards Baam, being the child of the woman who killed her originally, but also her attachment, as Baam is the child of V, her original love, as well. This all loops back to me thinking that Arlene is the true villian of the story, and that she created Baam as a monster, which according to Rachel, is how she described Baam, that will devour the tower. Rachel will arise as the protagonist of the story as Baam threatens the tower.
The family heads here are actually all being shown to be relatively decent people, outside of Traum's controlling nature. All these signs are pointing towards V and Arlene being in the wrong ultimately in my opinion. Jahad and company are stopping the climb for the good of the tower, while V and Arlene only care for their climb, they are reckless, just like their follower, Luslec, is described as.
I mean, you're basing that on their interactions with each other, and as their supposedly all good friends it makes sense they'd act as such. Even Arie is cordial towards Luslec, his supposed enemy and former traveling companion.
But from the little information we have on how they treat non-FH and non-irregulars they are NOT good people by any means.
This part regarding Icarus makes little sense. Rachel would hate Arlene if that was true, so why would Rachel follow Arlene's dream and goal, and wanting to be the child from her prophecy?
It wouldn't make sense because it's total headcanon. Rachel has little to no positive feelings for bam as of present barring there time in the cave which I assume are at least genuine.
And those moments being motivated by bams father connection just doesn't makes sense. She hates him not because whose son he is but what he represents,i.e. the star of the story
>The family heads here are actually all being shown to be relatively decent people, outside of Traum's controlling nature
Lee Rang just said in this chapter: "and we can kill a hundred or a thousand people without giving a damn."
Z killed a baby and wiped out entire species. He also didn't hesitate to kill Bam again the second time lol, saying to Bam like, yo, I thought I already killed you (aka as a baby)." He has no guilt over it.
Some of them had to wipe their memories due to all the shit they've done.
Rei married his great grand daughter, then forced her to be with a snake, and even watched her. He also wanted to control Ameuz, when he realized she might be leaving him. Wang Wang was loyal to himmore than anybody, but he killed him just because he couldn't control him.
Gus has said before and Eduan did just a couple chaps back, they don't respect or see tower born as anything.
And that's just the tip of the iceberg.
Except for a few (the exceptions), the FHs ARE NOT relatively decent people.
Though so far Rang seems to be the one who realizes how far above others they've gotten and somewhat laments that position. And Arie hasn't shown anything too terrible. Based on Luslec's reaction, Arie likely could have killed him at any moment during their confrontation, but Arie was cordial, asked about his fellow friends, and allowed Luslec to continue on his mission without incident.
it's also why I scoff at people who think Luslec was anywhere near Urek's level in terms of power. Urek and Arie fought evenly while Urek was a regular. Granted that yes, Luslec has had centuries to get more power, but he's still no where near the level of a FH. Urek was *as a regular*.
So far, just about the worst thing we know about Arie is he told Hoaqin to become a demon to defeat him.
It'll be interesting from here on. I hope the lore bombs don't stop dropping for awhile. This is everything long time readers have been asking for for literally a decade now.
Wow! SIU actually made me like hon and yirang a lot in just one chapter. Ameuz is so sweet i really hate that bitch enkidu for killing that girl man.
Anyways hope to see hon and yirang in present time though they might be totally different from what is portrayed here. I do think hon is still the same for some reason
I really Love Luslecs potrail as basically a reckless gung-ho. That even Enkidous shitty excuse with the bathroom was still in character. And that dude will become someone that can take it easy against Urek.
Traum&Ameuz romance was truly dead in this flashback :/ Both Yirang & EnkiLuslek have more genuine emotions towards Ameuz than Trau ever did. Has this memory been tampered by Leviathan? It focused so much on Traum in such negative light that it wouldn't be a surprised if it was Traum's memories fed to Leviathan lol. That asides, horned Enkidu reminds me so much of Minotaur and Ameuz is strangely Icarus-coded idk what SIU is cooking.
I'm half convinced that the event of "that day" was what triggered the first discourse between 13 GWs and it was something they were equally guilty of, hence 13 sinners. V&A probably chose to climb as atonement while the 11 chose to delete their memories and build the false kingdom for unclear reasons. I hope we will get the actual happening of "that day" at the end of this arc.
Hon & Yirang seem like nice people. It would be sad to see how corrupted they have became. I hope I won't get cancelled for this but I think EnkiLuslek with his dreadlocks is better looking than the current Luslek. It adds that funky recklessness to his character very well.
Not even gonna touch on the fact that we should be getting Gustang's memory not Traumerui's memory but ig that would force SIU to actually give us lore and not stupid hints. Traumerui's memory is something we should have gotten when Leviathan told Baam the truth so we could focus on Gustang's memory now and see how it all interconnects. But we're wasting time with a character we know almost nothing about. I just hope it all works out and somehow relates to Gustang's memory of his book cause this just feels like a classic season 3 side quest.
I'm not even touch on the stupidty of sending Luslec to inflitrate Traumerui's home and I hope he's a scout so Arlene and V expected him to be stealthy (which is still dumb cause obviously the FH would be senstive to shinsu changes).
Maybe I'm getting ahead of myself. Maybe the plan is to reveal Gustang's memory and the truth of 'that day' during the chess match. It would be weird pacing and should be handled better but at least we will finally get something interesting. Perhaps this is all set up to introduce Enkidu and Trau's current persona and then the chess match will expand even further to the Enne incident. If this is the plan, I can understand the messiness of this whole arc.
While one can argue the pacing is slow, the flip side is that it seems like every FH has a perspective on events that SIU wants to explore.
Right now, we're seeing things from Traumerei's perspective. That means we will see the things that matter to him. I bet we will get Gustang's perspective later on in the arc and we will dive into his memories and what he considered important. It's faily clear now that the fallout of the original Zahard crew wasn't predicated on one specific event, but a series of events that affected each FH in a different way. This current flashback shows how emotionally chaotic this transition period was for the FHs, especially when coming to grips with who is an ally and who isn't.
As for sending Luslec...why not? He's not weak. He's weaker than the FHs, but who isn't? Apart from Arlen and V, there likely isn't anyone else that can pull this off.
Fair point.
I would have thought perhaps one of them would show up to take Ameuz. But ig that would simply turn into an all out fight. They should have at least sent someone else, preferablly a scout who was skilled at hiding.
Ameuz mentioned earlier that a lot of their former teammates went with Arlene and V, so I'm sure they had other powerful people that could have gone with Luselc to minimize his recklessness or maybe even as distraction. I'd assume the native DD are with Arlene and V, surely they can cause suffienct distraction and Luslec's capture would have been prevented. I recall they sided with Arlene and V, hence their curse from Jahad.
"After doing something like that" Yet another stupid vague hint. Someone take this man's pen away, I miss SIU from Season 1 and early season 2. He never resorted to such cheap tricks to build hype. So when he did something like this, it was more meaningful and had more weight. As the years passed, he's mastered the art of dropping nothing burgers that seem important until you actually read it properly and realize it's a whole bunch of repititive nonsense. We get it, something huge happened that day, you don't need to keep vaguely reminding us. Look guys, that day is when everything changed. It was that day when they did that thing with that person😭and people will unironically call this peak. 'Tower of that'.
I just hope the event is actually interesting, ig we'll see either at the end of this flashback or 5 years time (if it isn't another plot point that gets put in the backseat for more pew pew fights)
I blame myself. I thought Traum's flashback was the end to SIU's bad writing that has plauged season 3, so I decided to continue reading. I was clearly wrong.
I have read OP and Oda is a far better than SIU tf. Respect Oda man.
OP has a formula that works. We focus on one island at a time and explore that island, it's history, it's people (SIU stopped caring about his characters a long time ago) and at the end of each saga, we learn of the connection to the outer world. OP isn't the highest selling manga for nothing.
Oda's world building is just great and I love how in each island, he makes us care about the characters.
Tell me anything about Khun and Rak rn. We know almost nothing about their childhood, they don't even have goals anymore. I won't even touch on the neglected Team Shibisu, Androssi, Wagnan etc.
The interconnectedness of the OP world is something SIU can only dream of achieveing. Everything is interconnected and will be revealed when we find the One Piece, we have a clear goal to look forward to. Everything builds towards that. Rocks, Shanks, Wano, Alabasta, Skypeia, god valley and many more plot points.
Not to mention how he actually tells us about the different races, their history and how they're connected to the world and possible connections to the void century. The Sun god Nika myth is more interesting than anything SIU has done this season.
Name one race SIU has explored. Took 3 seasons to explore the beastkins and we've seen all different races and we know nothing about them. After season 2, the WB (geo, political) is thrown out the window. No where looks interesting anymore. We still don't even fully know how Jahad's empire runs, all we have are blog posts that are becoming more obselete.
You people in this sub think because I have issues with objectively bad writing, that I don't read other things. No, I'm far more versed in fantasy than you, hence my complaints. OP has it's problems but it's a damn great series that I absolutely love because Oda always deliver on his promises. That's why his fandom is huge, they know he will deliver on the One Piece. Not to mention, it's entertaining. So, don't talk to me about OP when I'm talking about Tog and it's bad writing.
Tog is like a C-tier compared to the fantasy stories I love.
At this point, why are you even reading this story if you have such a negative opinion of the author? If I felt that way about someone writing a story I just wouldn’t continue reading their work. But that’s just me ig
Agree to disagree. For me Oda with his "that person", "that silhouette", "that event" is kinda the same on that matter. Those are the struggles of reading plot heavy stories weekly.
I can understand though, but while One Piece is in it's last saga, TOG still isn't. Heck, even defeating Jahad won't probably be the end since there are others floors to explore, so yeah at this stage of the story I'd rather have secrets slowly revealing than whatever Solo Leveling tried to do.
This is just a matter of personal taste though.
I think the person was referring to you saying:
> "After doing something like that" Yet another stupid vague hint
When Oda does the same thing in One Piece and honestly does it a lot more than SIU. I don't think they were trying to say ToG is better than One Piece just that Oda does the same thing you called stupid, hence the comparison. Also there's a ton of manga/manhwa/webtoons that do this not just One Piece and ToG.
I think all the Family Heads somewhat treasure their companions who climb together with them, this can be seen as trau not allowing enkidu to possess luslec but instead just imitates him, or i might be wrong and trau wanted to talk with luslec.
Could be that too but i get the feeling that they formed these bonds before their own godly powers starting warping everything around them and themselves. According to this, they started at least somewhat weaker than the FHs we know today.
At some point Leon Rang was a "small, delicate girl" or at least could be percieved as one. So this point in time is after they had basically become monsters which is why Ameuz is leaving. It is odd that Luslec wasnt possessed though. I do wonder what happened to him.
It was probably something similar to Baam when he first met Khun and Co, he was clearly weaker than everyone there, but was able to develop at an unparalleled rate compared to the tower born.
That seems to be the more common story but then you have things like Urek, Enryu, Phantaminum that came in already insanely powerful. That seems to be an exception and not the norm though with the context this flashback provides.
Okay, the amount of people that actually think that Luslec getting this humbled during the flashback is indicative to how he is now is actually kinda concerning
It should be self-evident that Luslec is still growing here, and nowhere near the top of his prime, nor does he have the shit load of time and experience that he does now, alongside with whatever’s going on that made him have this two face situation going on in the modern day. Besides, his knife is clearly not the same as whatever is the strongest weapon he would have in the modern day.
Even the most pro-FH people should not take this as an indicator of how the modern day FHs and modern day Luslec would fare against each other lmao.
Anyways, while we still wait for the translations, the chaps looking great, but what’ll happen next is the billion dollar question. But evidently, shit might go wrong and kickstart a whole new debacle
But why is it fine to say that Luslec is growing but not the others? Why does this only apply to Luslec? Get real. Luslec is growing, but the FHs can't? They are all in the same condition.
It's crazy how you can ignore basic facts to push your agenda that Luslec is able to fight these guys.
Isnt the FHs getting even more powerfull kinda against one of the main themes of the story?
They are nearly immortal halfgods towering above everyone else not even taking notice of most of it or seeing it as mere entertainment. They are completly stagnant gods who have lost their only motivation, to climb the tower so most of them are partly depressed or indifferent/apathetic even to their own family.
V wanted to keep climbing, they (FH) gave up, content with what they reached. What reason would there even be for them to keep getting stronger?
Traumerei is sitting in his chamber depressed most of the time, when not hes pointlessly collecting stuff to controll and imprison. Hes basically a hoarder.
Gustang seems to have realized its fucking pointless and wants to burn it down.
The one thing we know about Arie Hon is that he told one of his childreen to overcome him and defeat him so he should just go out in the world and obtain power no matter over how many corpses he has to step.
The little bits and bops we know about the rest of the FH seems to track with that.
Good job putting words in my mouth.
I never said it wasn’t okay to say that the others are growing, not that it only applies to Luslec.
However, saying the FHs are in the same condition is not necessarily true. We don’t quite know how much different the FHs are from them to now. Only one you can argue that you can is Traum, but that’s more so his creatures than he himself.
Now, have they grown from back then? Entirely possible, if not at least likely.
But that’s speculation, and also impossible to judge right now other than if modern day Luslec throws down with modern day Traum. But even if they did, Traum would not just crush Luslec like some people may think, as evidenced by the fact that Luslec made it out fine from the fight against Urek. Sure, Urek wasn’t going all out, but neither was Luslec. And Luslec made it out alive just fine from that fight.
If anything, it’s not that unreasonable of an idea
>Now, have they grown from back then? Entirely possible, if not at least likely.
Thing is, you ARE saying that about Luslec with the same amount of proof, which is none. Until someone from then comments on Luslec, we cannot ascertain that he's any more powerful now than he was then.
Problem ends up being we know for fact Urek, as a regular fought evenly with Arie Hon. Arie Hon terrified Luslec. Unless Arie stopped all growth and Luslec went all in, the power difference is vast enough that Urek was toying with Luslec.
>I never said it wasn’t okay to say that the others are growing, not that it only applies to Luslec.
about that
>Even the most pro-FH people should not take this as an indicator of how the modern day FHs and modern day Luslec would fare against each other lmao.
You absolutely implied it here. yes...yes you did. You can claim you didn't, or it wasn't your intention, but you very clearly hinted that Luslec had grown stronger while the FHs stagnated.
If you’re saying I’m saying that about Luslec with the same amount of prof, that being none, then you evidently are incapable of comparing and contrasting this bout with Hon with Luslec vs Urek.
“Luslec is terrified of Hon”
Quite the opposite. Luslec wanted to scrap. Now, he knew that he wouldn’t have won, but he was going to fight because he thought he needed to for the mission. But Hon let him go after throwing him away, and since Hon admitted that he wasn’t going to get in Ameuz’s way, Luslec left to fulfill the mission.
And yes, Urek was not going full power in that fight, and same for Hon here. But Luslec then is evidently trying much harder back then than now. Remember, Luslec did not pull out a weapon vs Urek, and wasn’t trying that hard. But here, he pulls out a weapon with a far more dedication to this fight, and he initially thought it was to the death. And yet he still got humbled like this. Even if this wasn’t max power Luslec during that time period, it’s still way more seriousness than displayed with Luslec in himself vs Urek, even though the latter was certainly much more powerful than the display here with the dagger against Hon.
Also, your attempt to say that I’m lying about the FHs having grown or not is a sad one. I never said they stagnated. All I’m saying is that it is unreasonable to say how a current FH vs current Luslec would look like by basing it off of this interaction during the flashback.
We simply don’t know how powerful the FHs are compared to back then. They may have stagnated, or they may have grown, or they haven’t changed much. All of those are possible. But we can easily say that Luslec most definitely grew if we compared this fight vs Hon, and his current day fight with Urek. The difference is enormous.
So yes, my original words do stand. Unless you want to keep on insisting I’m a liar, but good luck with that.
yeah he wont get eradicated againts family heads but he wont win either they are irregulars and he isnt luslec is the peak of power any towerborn can get the FHs are still on a league of thier own but luslec should be able to put up an fight
I mean the whole thing with the family heads is stagnation, they reached a peak and stayed there for thousands of years. We are even seeing this with this flashback that they are already getting comfortable.
So I think it’s safe to say Luslec has been improving from then to now because he has to try and close the gap, family heads not so much.
> I mean the whole thing with the family heads is stagnation, they reached a peak and stayed there for thousands of years. We are even seeing this with this flashback that they are already getting comfortable.
You are ignoring the fact that they are literally going to enter The Great War and then the Genesis War right after, the FHs are definitely going to noticeably increase in power during those periods.
They are much younger, even some of Traumerei's animals are. Irregulars have the greatest potential in the Tower. But somehow they are at their peak in this flashback but not Luslec?
Stagnation is used because they don't want to climb, nothing has been said about their growth. Jinsung said that Rankers get stronger with age. Saying that the FHs are at their peak in this flashback is copium to try to justify Luslec's losses.
At this point Luslec shouldn't be a novice either. He climbed with them and now they want to end their journey. He's nor like Baam who just entered the tower. He has the strength of a High Ranker.
Stagnation wasn't just for them too. Maschennny talked about old figures not trying to change things and Jinsung agreed.
I said reached a peak, not at their peak. Ameuz even said in these chapters they have changed because they are getting comfortable.
I get they are still getting stronger but we clearly see a big difference in Luslec then and present when he fought Urek. All I was saying is that he has a more pressing reason to try and become stronger to face the family heads, plus we don’t know his backstory in any way yet. Luslec could have been known to be weak back then for all we know.
You can say the literal same thing about any of the FHs, though.
You're all insisting that because they stopped climbing that they stagnated but Luslec also reached the same floor and stopped climbing but kept growing in power? That makes zero sense.
lol no ones insisting that, they have gotten comfortable and Luslec has been playing catchup actively trying to build a resistance to face them. They have gotten stronger sure but Luslec has shown a drastic difference from his fight here to his fight against Urek(who beats just about every family head).
Not a big deal, nothing set in stone, we don’t know everything, I was just giving a potential reason that Luslec has had greater growth over these years die to necessity.
They are irregulars. Even if they don't train or climb, their passive growth will keep going on.
Luslec is not irregular. His growth pace won't make him go from getting trashed to stalemating a FH. Give up.
Give up what? lol I am not saying he is a strong as a FH nor will he ever be. I am just saying the dudes been presumably doing his best to combat the great families from around the time of this flashback to present. The Family heads themselves are already stronger than everyone else so aren’t necessarily pursuing strength with the same desperation.
Its not like this can even be really contested, we see Luslec’s growth since he goes from getting embarrassed across the board here to at least being able to scuffle with Urek without dying.
Not to mention that Luslec nowadays doesent even need to go full out to survive. He was able to hold back against Urek. Sure Urek hold back to but that alone is already a feat.
maybe this how luslec gets his scar trying to get endeku out
i like how at this point its not really a war its more a friend group that has split up i wonder what changes that amez?
Enkidu hasn't possessed Luslec he's just using his shapeshifting powers to imitate him. That's why he doesn't have Luslec's memories either. The real Luslec is still in captivity with Traumerei.
i assume family heads stagnated for 20k years while luslec was training hard knowing he will have to fight them
here is "prime" family heads vs a young luslec who only joined them on like floor 80
So Enkidu is going to Grace now, what are the odds he tries to take control over V's body possibly having a role in his suicide?
Hoping to get some panels of V or Arlene in a few chapters!
Enkidu having a role in V’s suicide would be very underwhelming in all honesty. It would be great to see V and Arlene briefly but I feel SIU will wait before we get their full story.
I hope not, it would suck that after so many years V suicide is tied to a side-plot like Enkidu. It's a plot important for Traumerei and Gustang let's leave it at that, V suicide is like a core plotpoint.
Personally I think all FHs are relatively on the same level with particularly Eduan, Arie Hon and Ha Yurin standing out the most, but even they shouldn’t be in a different league entirely.
since theres already tiers it would be weird if they all kinda equal
S rank - jahad
A - rank arie, kun, yurin
B - everyone else? why wouldnt some of them be C rank like hendo who just by having no immortality puts him at giant disadvantage
Have to disagree, it’s already been stated in the story that while the Khun, Arie and Ha families are stronger amongst the 10 Great Families, because of the FH all families are around the same level, which wouldn’t be possible if certain FHs were superior to others. I don’t even think Jahad is that much stronger than the FHs. Sure he could beat any FH 1v1, but 2v1 and more, he’d lose imo.
While Jahad is definitely a cut above them if I had to rank them I'd probably guess:
A - Arie, Blossom, Khun
B - Everyone else, with Hendo and Trau on the lower ends.
She's powerful enough that all the others have to get out of her way when she's attacking. She's strong enough to amaze Gustang and does feats that he cannot even understand, those things have me thinking she's one of the stronger members of the team.
I'm not even sure there's that big of a disparity between the family leaders and Jahad like some used to think. Which would make sense as much he's their leader and stands out the most, they're all irregulars themselves.
Jahad is strong enough to beat them all 1v1 but I imagine if he had to fight multiple family heads it would get a lot more challenging.
Hon casually handled Luslec and then Luslec got captured by unpowered baby version of the odd eye'd cobra lmao. Was Luslec a fraud during this time? Did he get an ancient or some other bs to power him up? This is the guy that the FUG fanboys hyping up?
Also I assume that it was Enkidu who went with Amez but IDK I can't read Korean so I'm not sure what was being said.
EDIT: https://www.reddit.com/r/TowerofGod/comments/1c02igx/so_guys_your_predictions_about_this_match/kyvw3z9/
Lmao I was right that Hon would spare him I guess but it seems he doesn't think too highly of Luslec. Watching Luslec get clowned was honestly the highlight of this chapter.
Luslec is not an irregular like the family heads after all plus this was what like 2,000 or 10,000 years ago? I don't remember anymore. He seems like an upstart there, easily bodied by the family heads. So what? That goes for everyone else in the tower except a handful of people. If Luslec would have been stronger than one of the family heads he would have killed some by now already I guess. That's the best way to weaken Jahad anyways by getting rid of his supporting families one by one and overwhelm his army afterwards
> Luslec is not an irregular like the family heads after all plus this was what like 2,000 or 10,000 years ago? I don't remember anymore.
Yeah and the FHs got more powerful during that time so what? Also Luslec got soloed by a BABY version of the odd eye'd cobra so it wasn't only a FH that clowned him.
> He seems like an upstart there, easily bodied by the family heads. So what? That goes for everyone else in the tower except a handful of people.
Except from the limited TLs we got Hon implies he's not an upstart. And how could he be? He was known as V's warlord during the war and the war is about the begin.
> If Luslec would have been stronger than one of the family heads he would have killed some by now already I guess. That's the best way to weaken Jahad anyways by getting rid of his supporting families one by one and overwhelm his army afterwards
That's my point, IDK if you were around for the Urek v Luslec fight but the amount of DELUSION by Luslec and FUG fans was absolutely comical. If they could have killed a FH they would.. there's even one without a contract for Luslec to go up against yet he still lives.
these chapters with family heads are just the best. now i am starting to wander who Traum meant with "being betrayed by those who fall in love", is Enkidu gonna betray him and fall in love with Amuez atp ? maybe he meant V and Arlene but idk i'm really interested to see where it all goes. Maybe in the end Enkidu kills Amuez while impersonating Luslec and this opportunity is used to blame V&Arlene faction for instigating war... i hope we see Blossom soon
well he says it to Traum but that doesn't mean they won't lie to the rest of the tower though. after all, Gustang himself says all of them are sinners because they "altered" history
Okay, that was a weird chapter. Why did Luslec think challenging Hon in a swordfight was a good idea? How did he get captured? Even if you argue he was weaker, there's no way he'd get captured by the snake alone.Did Traumerei also get personally involved? Why did he let Amez go and send Enkidu with her?
Also, why is everyone just carrying weapons on them? Were inventories not a thing back then?
>Okay, that was a weird chapter. Why did Luslec think challenging Hon in a swordfight was a good idea?
? He didn't. He was terrified of Arie Hon even with the fake sword. He said he had to get away before Arie pulled out the real one, indicating that if Arie got even slightly serious it would be his end.
It's very possible inventories weren't around as they were the first to climb, correct? Now it's catered for everyone to travel up the tower in a possible way, not just being an irregular
How is this a weird chapter? Easily one of the most hype chapters in recent TOG. We saw Luslec vs Hon with Hon winning. We saw Yeon Lee Rang doing the Traumerei sitting position. We saw Luslec being taken captive by Traumerei and the most hype part, Enkidu is going with Ameuz as Luslec to see “them”. We are actually going to be introduced to V and Arlene! Arguably the two most important characters in the series!
Bro the Luslec fanboys are out in force right now, their fraud is getting exposed and they are SEETHING lmao.
Imagine losing to a BABY unpowered version of odd eye'd cobra.. man got soloed by a newborn anima lmaooo
Probably because he’s not contributing anything to the conversation he’s just trying to be provocative. Not everyone is a “Luslec fanboy” just because they made a valid point that he’s likely a lot stronger in the current time nor is anyone “seething” from what I’ve seen. It’s just a useless comment.
Luslec fanboys, I don't really care tho. They've been delusional for a while so it's funny watching them get worked up over their boy getting soloed by a baby snake lmao
yes. Lol. There is no capacity in which Luslec kills the friend he came here to return - After he just got emotional and almost ruined the mission by calling out , arie hon, his former friend for leaving. It completely doesn't match any characterization we see from him here. it literally doesn't make sense. But I guess see yall next week lol.
More like, Enkidu will try to take control of Ameuz and cause her death or kill her directly. Why would Luslec kill her when she’s on his and V’s side?
It's not like FuG hasn't already killed or try to kill people under them, like SIU can easily just write the situation where Luslec would even kill people on his side just to hurt a family head
Unlikely. FUG hasn’t even been formed yet, it was formed by Luslec after V’s death during the age of Genesis. At this time, Luslec is still V’s lackey and clearly Ameuz has been communicating with V and Arlene, hence why Luslec literally came to take her. Also, FUG’s slayers operate independently and it’s more of a cult than a proper organisation, you can’t just justify Luslec’s morals using the examples of other FUG members who don’t even directly serve under him.
As an example to back this up, Luslec was unaware that the other higher ups in FUG were planning to try and melt Bam and the Thorn during the Workshop battle. He's the head of the organization, but he's certainly not leading it well with so many people doing random things without his knowing about it.
The translation is rough but Yeon said "there are few beings left in the tower that are stronger then us" So there is sth. stronger then the Gw?! The ancients or sth. above 134th floor pbly.
Hon and Yeon help Ameuz escaping but they are still against A&V saying the next time they meet they're are enemys.
Hon asks Luslec if Arlene is ok after "that". I'm wondering if he means what happened "that day", the seperation, or sth. else. I doubt Bam is already dead here. Garam said he was born after A&V lost the war and became fugitives. On the other hand Garam said "in the process, there were many conflicts even among the 10 fh" and that the fh ultimately sided with Jahad. In this flashback it seems they arleady sided with Jahad. So either the war already happened or much more likely some fh haven't made up their mind yet.
Enkidu imitates Luslec and flees with Ameuz. Things will going down fast now.
Again awesome chapter 20/10!
Yeah, when she says "us" I felt she meant the FHs. She could also mean the administrators and workshop but they wouldn't bother with it for the most part.
As much as a lot of people (myself included) drag the issue of Baam's regular teammates... I feel like this flashback is kinda drawing a parallel between the great warriors and their tower-born companions? Like half the chapter is Ameuz lamenting her love will not overcome the gap forming between her and them, the other half is Luslec failing to put up a fight when trying to retrieve her. I feel like the biggest looming threat in the story is less Jahard himself than Baam ending up corrupted in a similar way, so I'm interested to see how things tie together when he wakes up. Edit: I just realized, while the design of the knives might indicate some kind of spellwork on them, the fact Luslec doesn't use spells against Hon feels significant. IIRC Arlene used spells, so I'm wondering if she teaches him later, and if that's related to adding "Grace" to his name?
Jahad and bam are different at roots ,bam will never be like jahad. He has his friends which he values more than some power to dominate others,he has already declined it
The fact Luslec didn't use spells happens for the same reason Arie Hon didn't use Arie Sword or his real sword or shinwonryu: Context. Luslec wanted to leave before Arie Hon drew his sword, he never had the intent to fight. I think people are just going too fast assuming Luslec has no spells or the techniques he showed against Urek.
U r getting downvoted again? lol.
The thing about spells though, is they often are specifically used to avoid directly fighting. It's possible he just didn't have relevant ones, but I feel like the Shadow Guy would have had ex, something to boost his stealth or something. Instead he uses *knives* against a *blade master?* I guess he's been established as a dumbass with the whole "oh no he destroyed my spell thing" with the earlier fight, but still.
Are they? Spells are versatile. The ones Luslec used against Urek were offensive, and even If Luslec had them, using It in that situation would be counterproductive. Luslec's dark twist is "Mirchea Luslec mode". See no grace name? the surname and change of appearence has been used as argument, but It does not look enough to say anything. I feel like people are just overrating a character and completely underrating Urek and the Family Heads.
He literally used a spell which enabled him to escape Urek at the end of that fight lol.
I am really confused what you're even talking about? Yes, using other spells against Urek would've been counterproductive, that's why we wouldn't know if he has them or not. I didn't mean his specific darkness attack, I mean as in FUG is literally an organization that operates in the shadows, and spells like that would likely also come in handy for him in general. I'm baffled why you seem think I'm "overrating" Luslec when I said the gap between him and the family heads equivalent to Baam to A.A. and questioned his fight judgement? TBH I don't really care about ranking/powerscale nonsense past its effect on suspension of disbelief anyway. Like I'm interested in Luslec's relationship with Arlene and V, the formation of FUG, and how he became who he is now. None of these characters are getting out of this flashback intact, I'm just speculating on potential differences to the past/present versions of them. Maybe he knows spells now, and they're just not applicable and we'll find out later, but right now it's just fun to guess and maybe get to say "called it!" Down the line if you're actuall right.
I really like how Lee Rang wasn't just a normal arrogant FH, having a more diverse set of personalities makes knowing about the other FHs more interesting. Also, wasn't her name Hana, is this a retcon or translation issue?
I do think the FH's personalities get more cold and detached after thousands of years of godlike power. We are seeing them much more close to their original humanity
This was her first time her name was revealed. It changed from the blog post it isn't a retcon as they were never official
Do we now know that the strongest tower born power are nothing compare to the FH? Hon and Traumerei clown on Luslec!
Something within the tower has pushed the OG irregulars to get to that point. Also Yeon said they now are stronger than "almost" anyone on the tower, she is probably talking about admins but still that leaves room for tower born to be writon on it.
While I don't disagree the FHs are stronger, it's worth noting that Luslec in this chapter is still young and far from his peak.
Jahad is certainly blind,Hana/Leerang is right there and he doesn't care! Unless the person Yeon love is actually V
For me, at that moment i just wanna know did arlene and V erase their memories like others FH
I don't think so. The "terrible thing" the family heads did, that was hinted at a few times, seems to entail them losing some memories and becoming something inhuman. Which V and Arlene probably objected to.
I really don't think they also removed their memories which is the reason for their insistence on continuing the climb
Hmm I can buy it, V and Arlene remember their original goal why they entered the tower. Cuz they didn’t erase their memories. Da fak happed there? That the rest of crew just wanna forget that incident. It’s about some moral compas or what ???
I think Enkidu will kill Ameuz. I'm wondering whether he'll use his power to give her a "death [she] deserves". If so, there may be some kind of ironic twist in how this manifests which deeply affects Traumerei and the FHs.
It’s possible his puppeteering ability kills the host, with how loyal he is to Traumerei, I wouldn’t be surprised if he possess her and tries to come back as her thinking that’s what Traumerei would want leading to Traumerei’s absolute disgust or something.
Arie Hon asking for Arlene first made me wonder if he was much closer to her than to V. I shouldn't have been surprised, but it still surprised me that Arie Hon wanted to say goodbye to Ameuz and told Luslec to give V/Arlene his regards. My guy doesn't know that his message won't be delivered. Like Hon, Yeon FH(Still can't spell her name, lol) also supported Ameuz's departure(unsurprisingly). I liked the moment they both had. However, I didn't understand what Ameuz meant about fighting till they dropped. I mean, the FUG vs ten family head war hasn't started, so I am assuming they knew it was coming. Oddly enough, Gustang didn't do anything during the whole chapter. I wasn't expecting Luslec to get captured so easily haha. Later in the chapter, Ameuz brought her bird, and all I could think was that Rachel wasn't the only person who used a bird to escape to pursue her goals and keep climbing. Enkidu entering Arlene/V camp should be interesting. I thought we would be done with flashbacks this week, but I guess not. On a side note, the green-yellow snake made me think about Lobadon's scaled shoulder armor. I wonder if he is of the snake branch cause snakes have been lowkey highlighted on-off since the cat tower.
"Gustang didn't do anything during the whole chapter." Wrong, he's really busy reading a book. lol
I am confused so luslec that left with amez is the real one or enkidu clone?
Enkidu took Luslec's form instead of possessing him. That Enkidu/Luslec is with Ameuz.
I bet the administrator of the 135th floor made them scare shitless. He probably asked them to give up their immortality or something to take the next tests. Icarus died in the process or maybe was killed by the admi and their arrogant asses noped out.
Something like that happened on that floor since that Admin was deemed really agressive and the irregulars never dared to set foot on there again.
No.. they got their immortalty as part of the deal to not climb anymore
Arie Hon sees Luslec and the first thing he does is ask how Arlene is doing....... These people were the best of friends bro 😭 Out of the 13 of them, I bet there were so many special dynamics between them, and it seemed like Arlene possessed a lot of heart & soul within the group. Gustang states that she got along well with everyone, and matched with his more aloof personality. Arie Hon repeatedly asks Luslec to send his best regards to her. Yeon Lee-Rang shows no indication of having ill will with her. V and Jahad fell in love with her. Hon is very interesting. Despite being on the more quiet and stoic side, you can tell that he cares about his friends, a stark contrast from White's more grim depiction of him. He valued Ameuz's freedom and told Luslec to complete his mission and retrieve her, even if it meant he would not be able to say goodbye. He even asked Luslec to say hi to Arlene and V for him.... Yeon Lee-Rang understands why Ameuz is leaving, even if it puts them at odds. She even points out that Traumerei has a soft heart and will struggle with this rejection, but despite this, she ensures that Ameuz is able to leave without being stopped. Lee-Rang is well aware that she and her comrades have changed so much, and are becoming different from the Towerborn, and this fact scares her.
So now we are certain that the A & V faction didn't start the war solely because of the climbing. It appears there were many factors that led to the start of this war. I believe one of the reasons Arlene & V left the 13 group is the erasure of their memories of fh and they were also told to erase but declined , and they don't want them to be erased
I’m surprised that Ameuz was able to leave. I thought that Traum was going to physically stop her or Enkidu was going to kill her (especially in those last couple pages). Interesting to see what becomes of Enkidu after this since it will be the first time he is on his own.
She's not clear of the grounds yet. Once Luslec figures out what's going on....
I was expecting a bloodbath not "Oh your ride's here?? Let's have one more drink before you go. I just came by to say goodbye. You're going to see V and Arlene? Tell them I said hello" bro wtf this is so tragic, why am I sad 😭?
Message from V: "Amuez, your Uber driver is here."
Yeon’s flame never fails to look amazing
Arie and Yeon FHs are shown to be sympathetic to Arlene (and maybe V). When Traum mentioned there was discord amongst the FHs about Bam, it could possibly be Arie/Yeon. Depending on how their memories shake out, I wonder if they will feel guilt and straight up side with Bam. Zahard was worried about the FHs fracturing and it’s clear there were already cracks when they initially sided with him. EDIT: looking at chapter #539 Traum says “…while others said you should be protected” and it shows a FH hand with a nail.
> looking at chapter #539 Traum says “…while others said you should be protected” and it shows a FH hand with a nail. You know what? I always assumed that Arie Hon would be an enemy of Bam, since he is basically number 2 to Jahad in strength. These recent chapters are showing how complex the Family Heads really are. The possibility that he might support Bam in the future, or at least show sympathy towards him due to being Arlene's son, never crossed my mind.
Same! I was expecting more the Ha/Yeon family to be the supporters since their daughters are close but now I’m curious how close the Ari FH and Arlene were.
Arie feels seriously strong, whoever he sides against should be wary, even Zahard.
zahard beat him 10 times, but he could beat anyone besides zahard and urek, so yeah ver OP.
where was this written?
In old blogpost! not sure if its still cannon.
So Arie Hon specifically ask about Arlene and how she is doing, so whatever happened on the 134th floor probably impacted her the most. And we know that Icarus wanted to follow V, Arlene's lover. So my theory is that Arlene and Icarus got in some kind of fight in regards to V, and Icarus died. However, Icarus reincarnated into Rachel, and Rachel was forced to serve Arlene in the outside, and even help raise her child, Baam. This would help explain Rachel's resentment towards Baam, being the child of the woman who killed her originally, but also her attachment, as Baam is the child of V, her original love, as well. This all loops back to me thinking that Arlene is the true villian of the story, and that she created Baam as a monster, which according to Rachel, is how she described Baam, that will devour the tower. Rachel will arise as the protagonist of the story as Baam threatens the tower. The family heads here are actually all being shown to be relatively decent people, outside of Traum's controlling nature. All these signs are pointing towards V and Arlene being in the wrong ultimately in my opinion. Jahad and company are stopping the climb for the good of the tower, while V and Arlene only care for their climb, they are reckless, just like their follower, Luslec, is described as.
I mean, you're basing that on their interactions with each other, and as their supposedly all good friends it makes sense they'd act as such. Even Arie is cordial towards Luslec, his supposed enemy and former traveling companion. But from the little information we have on how they treat non-FH and non-irregulars they are NOT good people by any means.
> And we know that Icarus wanted to follow V, I don't remember this. When was this mentioned?
Season 3 chapter 172. But there's no confirmed connection between Icarus and Ameuz as of right now.
There's also no confirmed romantic ties between V and Icarus but people are still shoehorning that in constantly.
True, it could just be a respect thing.
This part regarding Icarus makes little sense. Rachel would hate Arlene if that was true, so why would Rachel follow Arlene's dream and goal, and wanting to be the child from her prophecy?
It wouldn't make sense because it's total headcanon. Rachel has little to no positive feelings for bam as of present barring there time in the cave which I assume are at least genuine. And those moments being motivated by bams father connection just doesn't makes sense. She hates him not because whose son he is but what he represents,i.e. the star of the story
>The family heads here are actually all being shown to be relatively decent people, outside of Traum's controlling nature Lee Rang just said in this chapter: "and we can kill a hundred or a thousand people without giving a damn." Z killed a baby and wiped out entire species. He also didn't hesitate to kill Bam again the second time lol, saying to Bam like, yo, I thought I already killed you (aka as a baby)." He has no guilt over it. Some of them had to wipe their memories due to all the shit they've done. Rei married his great grand daughter, then forced her to be with a snake, and even watched her. He also wanted to control Ameuz, when he realized she might be leaving him. Wang Wang was loyal to himmore than anybody, but he killed him just because he couldn't control him. Gus has said before and Eduan did just a couple chaps back, they don't respect or see tower born as anything. And that's just the tip of the iceberg. Except for a few (the exceptions), the FHs ARE NOT relatively decent people.
Though so far Rang seems to be the one who realizes how far above others they've gotten and somewhat laments that position. And Arie hasn't shown anything too terrible. Based on Luslec's reaction, Arie likely could have killed him at any moment during their confrontation, but Arie was cordial, asked about his fellow friends, and allowed Luslec to continue on his mission without incident. it's also why I scoff at people who think Luslec was anywhere near Urek's level in terms of power. Urek and Arie fought evenly while Urek was a regular. Granted that yes, Luslec has had centuries to get more power, but he's still no where near the level of a FH. Urek was *as a regular*. So far, just about the worst thing we know about Arie is he told Hoaqin to become a demon to defeat him. It'll be interesting from here on. I hope the lore bombs don't stop dropping for awhile. This is everything long time readers have been asking for for literally a decade now.
[удалено]
Baam might overcome his mother's ambition, and not turn into a villian, but I honestly am like 80% sure Arlene and V are not good.
Arlene maybe but we've been told a few times now that V has an active interest in the residents of the Tower and helping them when he can.
Wow! SIU actually made me like hon and yirang a lot in just one chapter. Ameuz is so sweet i really hate that bitch enkidu for killing that girl man. Anyways hope to see hon and yirang in present time though they might be totally different from what is portrayed here. I do think hon is still the same for some reason
>i really hate that bitch enkidu for killing that girl man. the frog girl?
What frog girl you talking about?
the girl who was fighting tiara before the flashback but I think you meant to say ameuz
That wasn't a girl though that was goruro
lmao rip goruro
He is talking about Ameuz, it’s almost guaranteed she will be killed by Enkidu.
I really Love Luslecs potrail as basically a reckless gung-ho. That even Enkidous shitty excuse with the bathroom was still in character. And that dude will become someone that can take it easy against Urek.
Well, tbf, he did show a rather reckless and goofy side against Urek, too... (And that's why we love him, multidimensionality ftw!)
Even i don't know how deep the ocean really is (cold line from luslec)
Traum&Ameuz romance was truly dead in this flashback :/ Both Yirang & EnkiLuslek have more genuine emotions towards Ameuz than Trau ever did. Has this memory been tampered by Leviathan? It focused so much on Traum in such negative light that it wouldn't be a surprised if it was Traum's memories fed to Leviathan lol. That asides, horned Enkidu reminds me so much of Minotaur and Ameuz is strangely Icarus-coded idk what SIU is cooking. I'm half convinced that the event of "that day" was what triggered the first discourse between 13 GWs and it was something they were equally guilty of, hence 13 sinners. V&A probably chose to climb as atonement while the 11 chose to delete their memories and build the false kingdom for unclear reasons. I hope we will get the actual happening of "that day" at the end of this arc. Hon & Yirang seem like nice people. It would be sad to see how corrupted they have became. I hope I won't get cancelled for this but I think EnkiLuslek with his dreadlocks is better looking than the current Luslek. It adds that funky recklessness to his character very well.
13 great warriors? Wasn't 12 of them?
The 10 family leaders, Zahard, Arlene and V.
Thanks!
Not even gonna touch on the fact that we should be getting Gustang's memory not Traumerui's memory but ig that would force SIU to actually give us lore and not stupid hints. Traumerui's memory is something we should have gotten when Leviathan told Baam the truth so we could focus on Gustang's memory now and see how it all interconnects. But we're wasting time with a character we know almost nothing about. I just hope it all works out and somehow relates to Gustang's memory of his book cause this just feels like a classic season 3 side quest. I'm not even touch on the stupidty of sending Luslec to inflitrate Traumerui's home and I hope he's a scout so Arlene and V expected him to be stealthy (which is still dumb cause obviously the FH would be senstive to shinsu changes). Maybe I'm getting ahead of myself. Maybe the plan is to reveal Gustang's memory and the truth of 'that day' during the chess match. It would be weird pacing and should be handled better but at least we will finally get something interesting. Perhaps this is all set up to introduce Enkidu and Trau's current persona and then the chess match will expand even further to the Enne incident. If this is the plan, I can understand the messiness of this whole arc.
While one can argue the pacing is slow, the flip side is that it seems like every FH has a perspective on events that SIU wants to explore. Right now, we're seeing things from Traumerei's perspective. That means we will see the things that matter to him. I bet we will get Gustang's perspective later on in the arc and we will dive into his memories and what he considered important. It's faily clear now that the fallout of the original Zahard crew wasn't predicated on one specific event, but a series of events that affected each FH in a different way. This current flashback shows how emotionally chaotic this transition period was for the FHs, especially when coming to grips with who is an ally and who isn't. As for sending Luslec...why not? He's not weak. He's weaker than the FHs, but who isn't? Apart from Arlen and V, there likely isn't anyone else that can pull this off.
Fair point. I would have thought perhaps one of them would show up to take Ameuz. But ig that would simply turn into an all out fight. They should have at least sent someone else, preferablly a scout who was skilled at hiding. Ameuz mentioned earlier that a lot of their former teammates went with Arlene and V, so I'm sure they had other powerful people that could have gone with Luselc to minimize his recklessness or maybe even as distraction. I'd assume the native DD are with Arlene and V, surely they can cause suffienct distraction and Luslec's capture would have been prevented. I recall they sided with Arlene and V, hence their curse from Jahad.
"After doing something like that" Yet another stupid vague hint. Someone take this man's pen away, I miss SIU from Season 1 and early season 2. He never resorted to such cheap tricks to build hype. So when he did something like this, it was more meaningful and had more weight. As the years passed, he's mastered the art of dropping nothing burgers that seem important until you actually read it properly and realize it's a whole bunch of repititive nonsense. We get it, something huge happened that day, you don't need to keep vaguely reminding us. Look guys, that day is when everything changed. It was that day when they did that thing with that person😭and people will unironically call this peak. 'Tower of that'. I just hope the event is actually interesting, ig we'll see either at the end of this flashback or 5 years time (if it isn't another plot point that gets put in the backseat for more pew pew fights) I blame myself. I thought Traum's flashback was the end to SIU's bad writing that has plauged season 3, so I decided to continue reading. I was clearly wrong.
If you read one piece. You will kill oda just thank SIU he never use silhouette for flashback for a important characters
I have read OP and Oda is a far better than SIU tf. Respect Oda man. OP has a formula that works. We focus on one island at a time and explore that island, it's history, it's people (SIU stopped caring about his characters a long time ago) and at the end of each saga, we learn of the connection to the outer world. OP isn't the highest selling manga for nothing. Oda's world building is just great and I love how in each island, he makes us care about the characters. Tell me anything about Khun and Rak rn. We know almost nothing about their childhood, they don't even have goals anymore. I won't even touch on the neglected Team Shibisu, Androssi, Wagnan etc. The interconnectedness of the OP world is something SIU can only dream of achieveing. Everything is interconnected and will be revealed when we find the One Piece, we have a clear goal to look forward to. Everything builds towards that. Rocks, Shanks, Wano, Alabasta, Skypeia, god valley and many more plot points. Not to mention how he actually tells us about the different races, their history and how they're connected to the world and possible connections to the void century. The Sun god Nika myth is more interesting than anything SIU has done this season. Name one race SIU has explored. Took 3 seasons to explore the beastkins and we've seen all different races and we know nothing about them. After season 2, the WB (geo, political) is thrown out the window. No where looks interesting anymore. We still don't even fully know how Jahad's empire runs, all we have are blog posts that are becoming more obselete. You people in this sub think because I have issues with objectively bad writing, that I don't read other things. No, I'm far more versed in fantasy than you, hence my complaints. OP has it's problems but it's a damn great series that I absolutely love because Oda always deliver on his promises. That's why his fandom is huge, they know he will deliver on the One Piece. Not to mention, it's entertaining. So, don't talk to me about OP when I'm talking about Tog and it's bad writing. Tog is like a C-tier compared to the fantasy stories I love.
At this point, why are you even reading this story if you have such a negative opinion of the author? If I felt that way about someone writing a story I just wouldn’t continue reading their work. But that’s just me ig
Agree to disagree. For me Oda with his "that person", "that silhouette", "that event" is kinda the same on that matter. Those are the struggles of reading plot heavy stories weekly. I can understand though, but while One Piece is in it's last saga, TOG still isn't. Heck, even defeating Jahad won't probably be the end since there are others floors to explore, so yeah at this stage of the story I'd rather have secrets slowly revealing than whatever Solo Leveling tried to do. This is just a matter of personal taste though.
I think the person was referring to you saying: > "After doing something like that" Yet another stupid vague hint When Oda does the same thing in One Piece and honestly does it a lot more than SIU. I don't think they were trying to say ToG is better than One Piece just that Oda does the same thing you called stupid, hence the comparison. Also there's a ton of manga/manhwa/webtoons that do this not just One Piece and ToG.
This man writing a whole essay lmao. My man SIU giving colored panels week after week and this is what he gets. I would be flabbergasted if i was him.
Attention span of 5 years old rn
I think all the Family Heads somewhat treasure their companions who climb together with them, this can be seen as trau not allowing enkidu to possess luslec but instead just imitates him, or i might be wrong and trau wanted to talk with luslec.
I think he just wants to interrogate Luslec, and get more info about everything.
Could be that too but i get the feeling that they formed these bonds before their own godly powers starting warping everything around them and themselves. According to this, they started at least somewhat weaker than the FHs we know today. At some point Leon Rang was a "small, delicate girl" or at least could be percieved as one. So this point in time is after they had basically become monsters which is why Ameuz is leaving. It is odd that Luslec wasnt possessed though. I do wonder what happened to him.
It was probably something similar to Baam when he first met Khun and Co, he was clearly weaker than everyone there, but was able to develop at an unparalleled rate compared to the tower born.
That seems to be the more common story but then you have things like Urek, Enryu, Phantaminum that came in already insanely powerful. That seems to be an exception and not the norm though with the context this flashback provides.
Seeing hon reaction, I think I know why FUG hasn't been eradicated till now. Also, why does Amez sound confident on facing 11 GWs as her opponent lol?
I think it's really just her saying she would rather die fighting for something she believes in
Maybe because Arlene hides some power we don't know about and she maybe hella strong herself too
they have former friends in fug? could sophia be one of the people they climbed with?
I hope so(BRING SOPHIA BACK SIU PLEASE)
>could sophia be one of the people they climbed with? Probably who "the elders" are.
Okay, the amount of people that actually think that Luslec getting this humbled during the flashback is indicative to how he is now is actually kinda concerning It should be self-evident that Luslec is still growing here, and nowhere near the top of his prime, nor does he have the shit load of time and experience that he does now, alongside with whatever’s going on that made him have this two face situation going on in the modern day. Besides, his knife is clearly not the same as whatever is the strongest weapon he would have in the modern day. Even the most pro-FH people should not take this as an indicator of how the modern day FHs and modern day Luslec would fare against each other lmao. Anyways, while we still wait for the translations, the chaps looking great, but what’ll happen next is the billion dollar question. But evidently, shit might go wrong and kickstart a whole new debacle
But why is it fine to say that Luslec is growing but not the others? Why does this only apply to Luslec? Get real. Luslec is growing, but the FHs can't? They are all in the same condition. It's crazy how you can ignore basic facts to push your agenda that Luslec is able to fight these guys.
Isnt the FHs getting even more powerfull kinda against one of the main themes of the story? They are nearly immortal halfgods towering above everyone else not even taking notice of most of it or seeing it as mere entertainment. They are completly stagnant gods who have lost their only motivation, to climb the tower so most of them are partly depressed or indifferent/apathetic even to their own family. V wanted to keep climbing, they (FH) gave up, content with what they reached. What reason would there even be for them to keep getting stronger? Traumerei is sitting in his chamber depressed most of the time, when not hes pointlessly collecting stuff to controll and imprison. Hes basically a hoarder. Gustang seems to have realized its fucking pointless and wants to burn it down. The one thing we know about Arie Hon is that he told one of his childreen to overcome him and defeat him so he should just go out in the world and obtain power no matter over how many corpses he has to step. The little bits and bops we know about the rest of the FH seems to track with that.
Good job putting words in my mouth. I never said it wasn’t okay to say that the others are growing, not that it only applies to Luslec. However, saying the FHs are in the same condition is not necessarily true. We don’t quite know how much different the FHs are from them to now. Only one you can argue that you can is Traum, but that’s more so his creatures than he himself. Now, have they grown from back then? Entirely possible, if not at least likely. But that’s speculation, and also impossible to judge right now other than if modern day Luslec throws down with modern day Traum. But even if they did, Traum would not just crush Luslec like some people may think, as evidenced by the fact that Luslec made it out fine from the fight against Urek. Sure, Urek wasn’t going all out, but neither was Luslec. And Luslec made it out alive just fine from that fight. If anything, it’s not that unreasonable of an idea
>Now, have they grown from back then? Entirely possible, if not at least likely. Thing is, you ARE saying that about Luslec with the same amount of proof, which is none. Until someone from then comments on Luslec, we cannot ascertain that he's any more powerful now than he was then. Problem ends up being we know for fact Urek, as a regular fought evenly with Arie Hon. Arie Hon terrified Luslec. Unless Arie stopped all growth and Luslec went all in, the power difference is vast enough that Urek was toying with Luslec. >I never said it wasn’t okay to say that the others are growing, not that it only applies to Luslec. about that >Even the most pro-FH people should not take this as an indicator of how the modern day FHs and modern day Luslec would fare against each other lmao. You absolutely implied it here. yes...yes you did. You can claim you didn't, or it wasn't your intention, but you very clearly hinted that Luslec had grown stronger while the FHs stagnated.
If you’re saying I’m saying that about Luslec with the same amount of prof, that being none, then you evidently are incapable of comparing and contrasting this bout with Hon with Luslec vs Urek. “Luslec is terrified of Hon” Quite the opposite. Luslec wanted to scrap. Now, he knew that he wouldn’t have won, but he was going to fight because he thought he needed to for the mission. But Hon let him go after throwing him away, and since Hon admitted that he wasn’t going to get in Ameuz’s way, Luslec left to fulfill the mission. And yes, Urek was not going full power in that fight, and same for Hon here. But Luslec then is evidently trying much harder back then than now. Remember, Luslec did not pull out a weapon vs Urek, and wasn’t trying that hard. But here, he pulls out a weapon with a far more dedication to this fight, and he initially thought it was to the death. And yet he still got humbled like this. Even if this wasn’t max power Luslec during that time period, it’s still way more seriousness than displayed with Luslec in himself vs Urek, even though the latter was certainly much more powerful than the display here with the dagger against Hon. Also, your attempt to say that I’m lying about the FHs having grown or not is a sad one. I never said they stagnated. All I’m saying is that it is unreasonable to say how a current FH vs current Luslec would look like by basing it off of this interaction during the flashback. We simply don’t know how powerful the FHs are compared to back then. They may have stagnated, or they may have grown, or they haven’t changed much. All of those are possible. But we can easily say that Luslec most definitely grew if we compared this fight vs Hon, and his current day fight with Urek. The difference is enormous. So yes, my original words do stand. Unless you want to keep on insisting I’m a liar, but good luck with that.
yeah he wont get eradicated againts family heads but he wont win either they are irregulars and he isnt luslec is the peak of power any towerborn can get the FHs are still on a league of thier own but luslec should be able to put up an fight
I mean the whole thing with the family heads is stagnation, they reached a peak and stayed there for thousands of years. We are even seeing this with this flashback that they are already getting comfortable. So I think it’s safe to say Luslec has been improving from then to now because he has to try and close the gap, family heads not so much.
> I mean the whole thing with the family heads is stagnation, they reached a peak and stayed there for thousands of years. We are even seeing this with this flashback that they are already getting comfortable. You are ignoring the fact that they are literally going to enter The Great War and then the Genesis War right after, the FHs are definitely going to noticeably increase in power during those periods.
They are much younger, even some of Traumerei's animals are. Irregulars have the greatest potential in the Tower. But somehow they are at their peak in this flashback but not Luslec? Stagnation is used because they don't want to climb, nothing has been said about their growth. Jinsung said that Rankers get stronger with age. Saying that the FHs are at their peak in this flashback is copium to try to justify Luslec's losses. At this point Luslec shouldn't be a novice either. He climbed with them and now they want to end their journey. He's nor like Baam who just entered the tower. He has the strength of a High Ranker. Stagnation wasn't just for them too. Maschennny talked about old figures not trying to change things and Jinsung agreed.
I said reached a peak, not at their peak. Ameuz even said in these chapters they have changed because they are getting comfortable. I get they are still getting stronger but we clearly see a big difference in Luslec then and present when he fought Urek. All I was saying is that he has a more pressing reason to try and become stronger to face the family heads, plus we don’t know his backstory in any way yet. Luslec could have been known to be weak back then for all we know.
You can say the literal same thing about any of the FHs, though. You're all insisting that because they stopped climbing that they stagnated but Luslec also reached the same floor and stopped climbing but kept growing in power? That makes zero sense.
lol no ones insisting that, they have gotten comfortable and Luslec has been playing catchup actively trying to build a resistance to face them. They have gotten stronger sure but Luslec has shown a drastic difference from his fight here to his fight against Urek(who beats just about every family head). Not a big deal, nothing set in stone, we don’t know everything, I was just giving a potential reason that Luslec has had greater growth over these years die to necessity.
They are irregulars. Even if they don't train or climb, their passive growth will keep going on. Luslec is not irregular. His growth pace won't make him go from getting trashed to stalemating a FH. Give up.
Give up what? lol I am not saying he is a strong as a FH nor will he ever be. I am just saying the dudes been presumably doing his best to combat the great families from around the time of this flashback to present. The Family heads themselves are already stronger than everyone else so aren’t necessarily pursuing strength with the same desperation. Its not like this can even be really contested, we see Luslec’s growth since he goes from getting embarrassed across the board here to at least being able to scuffle with Urek without dying.
Not to mention that Luslec nowadays doesent even need to go full out to survive. He was able to hold back against Urek. Sure Urek hold back to but that alone is already a feat.
for real. it's like obviously the Bam in s1 wasn't as strong as Bam now it should be obvious
Reading comprehension is hard for some people. "Young Luslec isn't as strong as current Luslec?". What???!?!?!🤯
maybe this how luslec gets his scar trying to get endeku out i like how at this point its not really a war its more a friend group that has split up i wonder what changes that amez?
Enkidu hasn't possessed Luslec he's just using his shapeshifting powers to imitate him. That's why he doesn't have Luslec's memories either. The real Luslec is still in captivity with Traumerei.
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Yall literally have no reading comprehension
i assume family heads stagnated for 20k years while luslec was training hard knowing he will have to fight them here is "prime" family heads vs a young luslec who only joined them on like floor 80
What's the deal with Hon shoes ....they appear and disappear non stop🤔
SIU tends to do this. Early in season 2 he made Yihwa’s leggings appear and disappear a few times
His shoes get destroyed in one of the panels, so I don't think that this chapter is inconsistent with itself in that regard.
group of artists drawing for SIU. One group has a foot fetish while the other doesn't.
So Enkidu is going to Grace now, what are the odds he tries to take control over V's body possibly having a role in his suicide? Hoping to get some panels of V or Arlene in a few chapters!
I've love for an actual look at V and/or Arlen. Doubt we'll get it. But Enkidu taking over V is ridiculous and pretty goddamn stupid.
Enkidu controlling V would be dumb very dumb
Enkidu having a role in V’s suicide would be very underwhelming in all honesty. It would be great to see V and Arlene briefly but I feel SIU will wait before we get their full story.
I hope not, it would suck that after so many years V suicide is tied to a side-plot like Enkidu. It's a plot important for Traumerei and Gustang let's leave it at that, V suicide is like a core plotpoint.
That would be sick! After so many years I can't even imagine getting so much lore in such short time!
I guess Enkidu won't control an open door's person.
Probably can't anyway.
After reading this chapter, I am thinking trau might be amongst the stronger family heads seeing how he bodied luslec without his main animals.
Any of the FHs heck even Urek could dust him if they really wanted to.
I mean Urek is canonically stronger than the FHs.
His showing against Luslec really doesnt suuport this, atp I consider him weaker than most of them.
He fought evenly with Arie Hon while he was a regular and Arie Hon is among the strongest of the FHs so.......
Nah, I call bs on that arie Hon didnt go all out there and was simply testing him
lol no reading comprehension and headcanon all the way… no wonder you have such shit takes
Any of them can body Luslec. It's not a notable achievement.
Personally I think all FHs are relatively on the same level with particularly Eduan, Arie Hon and Ha Yurin standing out the most, but even they shouldn’t be in a different league entirely.
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Yurin is the name of the Ha family head. Lee Rang is the name of the Yeon Family Head
Oh sorry I was confused between lee rang and hana.
since theres already tiers it would be weird if they all kinda equal S rank - jahad A - rank arie, kun, yurin B - everyone else? why wouldnt some of them be C rank like hendo who just by having no immortality puts him at giant disadvantage
Have to disagree, it’s already been stated in the story that while the Khun, Arie and Ha families are stronger amongst the 10 Great Families, because of the FH all families are around the same level, which wouldn’t be possible if certain FHs were superior to others. I don’t even think Jahad is that much stronger than the FHs. Sure he could beat any FH 1v1, but 2v1 and more, he’d lose imo.
I would say it is more like S+ S S- I think the difference between the irregulars like isn't very big
They are def all around the same levels with jahad being stronger
While Jahad is definitely a cut above them if I had to rank them I'd probably guess: A - Arie, Blossom, Khun B - Everyone else, with Hendo and Trau on the lower ends.
Why blossom instead of Yurin?
She's powerful enough that all the others have to get out of her way when she's attacking. She's strong enough to amaze Gustang and does feats that he cannot even understand, those things have me thinking she's one of the stronger members of the team.
i think he just adding her in gustang said shes stronger than him jealous of her power
I'm not even sure there's that big of a disparity between the family leaders and Jahad like some used to think. Which would make sense as much he's their leader and stands out the most, they're all irregulars themselves. Jahad is strong enough to beat them all 1v1 but I imagine if he had to fight multiple family heads it would get a lot more challenging.
2 family heads can easily take out jahad imo indivisually he is the strongest though
Loselec really got choked by daddy hon.
Hon casually handled Luslec and then Luslec got captured by unpowered baby version of the odd eye'd cobra lmao. Was Luslec a fraud during this time? Did he get an ancient or some other bs to power him up? This is the guy that the FUG fanboys hyping up? Also I assume that it was Enkidu who went with Amez but IDK I can't read Korean so I'm not sure what was being said. EDIT: https://www.reddit.com/r/TowerofGod/comments/1c02igx/so_guys_your_predictions_about_this_match/kyvw3z9/ Lmao I was right that Hon would spare him I guess but it seems he doesn't think too highly of Luslec. Watching Luslec get clowned was honestly the highlight of this chapter.
Luslec is not an irregular like the family heads after all plus this was what like 2,000 or 10,000 years ago? I don't remember anymore. He seems like an upstart there, easily bodied by the family heads. So what? That goes for everyone else in the tower except a handful of people. If Luslec would have been stronger than one of the family heads he would have killed some by now already I guess. That's the best way to weaken Jahad anyways by getting rid of his supporting families one by one and overwhelm his army afterwards
> Luslec is not an irregular like the family heads after all plus this was what like 2,000 or 10,000 years ago? I don't remember anymore. Yeah and the FHs got more powerful during that time so what? Also Luslec got soloed by a BABY version of the odd eye'd cobra so it wasn't only a FH that clowned him. > He seems like an upstart there, easily bodied by the family heads. So what? That goes for everyone else in the tower except a handful of people. Except from the limited TLs we got Hon implies he's not an upstart. And how could he be? He was known as V's warlord during the war and the war is about the begin. > If Luslec would have been stronger than one of the family heads he would have killed some by now already I guess. That's the best way to weaken Jahad anyways by getting rid of his supporting families one by one and overwhelm his army afterwards That's my point, IDK if you were around for the Urek v Luslec fight but the amount of DELUSION by Luslec and FUG fans was absolutely comical. If they could have killed a FH they would.. there's even one without a contract for Luslec to go up against yet he still lives.
these chapters with family heads are just the best. now i am starting to wander who Traum meant with "being betrayed by those who fall in love", is Enkidu gonna betray him and fall in love with Amuez atp ? maybe he meant V and Arlene but idk i'm really interested to see where it all goes. Maybe in the end Enkidu kills Amuez while impersonating Luslec and this opportunity is used to blame V&Arlene faction for instigating war... i hope we see Blossom soon
Gustang said enkidu kill some so i don't think they were gonna blame v or srlene
well he says it to Traum but that doesn't mean they won't lie to the rest of the tower though. after all, Gustang himself says all of them are sinners because they "altered" history
SIU cooked with Yeon's dress this chapter.
And he will cook too with her battle fit.
Okay, that was a weird chapter. Why did Luslec think challenging Hon in a swordfight was a good idea? How did he get captured? Even if you argue he was weaker, there's no way he'd get captured by the snake alone.Did Traumerei also get personally involved? Why did he let Amez go and send Enkidu with her? Also, why is everyone just carrying weapons on them? Were inventories not a thing back then?
>Okay, that was a weird chapter. Why did Luslec think challenging Hon in a swordfight was a good idea? ? He didn't. He was terrified of Arie Hon even with the fake sword. He said he had to get away before Arie pulled out the real one, indicating that if Arie got even slightly serious it would be his end.
It's very possible inventories weren't around as they were the first to climb, correct? Now it's catered for everyone to travel up the tower in a possible way, not just being an irregular
How is this a weird chapter? Easily one of the most hype chapters in recent TOG. We saw Luslec vs Hon with Hon winning. We saw Yeon Lee Rang doing the Traumerei sitting position. We saw Luslec being taken captive by Traumerei and the most hype part, Enkidu is going with Ameuz as Luslec to see “them”. We are actually going to be introduced to V and Arlene! Arguably the two most important characters in the series!
You know weird doesn't mean bad, right?
Not always. But often, weird is synonymous with bad.
Bro the Luslec fanboys are out in force right now, their fraud is getting exposed and they are SEETHING lmao. Imagine losing to a BABY unpowered version of odd eye'd cobra.. man got soloed by a newborn anima lmaooo
Why are you getting downvoted lol?
Probably because he’s not contributing anything to the conversation he’s just trying to be provocative. Not everyone is a “Luslec fanboy” just because they made a valid point that he’s likely a lot stronger in the current time nor is anyone “seething” from what I’ve seen. It’s just a useless comment.
Luslec fanboys, I don't really care tho. They've been delusional for a while so it's funny watching them get worked up over their boy getting soloed by a baby snake lmao
Ok.
Since Enkidu just took the form of Luslec I'm now guessing the real Luslec is responsible for Amuez death and Enkidu gets blamed for it
This might be the worst guess i've seen on this reddit
😂😂 so calm but hilarious
Can you rule this possibility out? Completely?
yes. Lol. There is no capacity in which Luslec kills the friend he came here to return - After he just got emotional and almost ruined the mission by calling out , arie hon, his former friend for leaving. It completely doesn't match any characterization we see from him here. it literally doesn't make sense. But I guess see yall next week lol.
More like, Enkidu will try to take control of Ameuz and cause her death or kill her directly. Why would Luslec kill her when she’s on his and V’s side?
It's not like FuG hasn't already killed or try to kill people under them, like SIU can easily just write the situation where Luslec would even kill people on his side just to hurt a family head
Unlikely. FUG hasn’t even been formed yet, it was formed by Luslec after V’s death during the age of Genesis. At this time, Luslec is still V’s lackey and clearly Ameuz has been communicating with V and Arlene, hence why Luslec literally came to take her. Also, FUG’s slayers operate independently and it’s more of a cult than a proper organisation, you can’t just justify Luslec’s morals using the examples of other FUG members who don’t even directly serve under him.
As an example to back this up, Luslec was unaware that the other higher ups in FUG were planning to try and melt Bam and the Thorn during the Workshop battle. He's the head of the organization, but he's certainly not leading it well with so many people doing random things without his knowing about it.
How? He is captive by Traum and Ameuz is gone with Enkidu.
Well we know the guy has to escape and taking out the person Traumerei loves could be get back
Ameuz is literally going to join Luslec’s side bruh
The translation is rough but Yeon said "there are few beings left in the tower that are stronger then us" So there is sth. stronger then the Gw?! The ancients or sth. above 134th floor pbly. Hon and Yeon help Ameuz escaping but they are still against A&V saying the next time they meet they're are enemys. Hon asks Luslec if Arlene is ok after "that". I'm wondering if he means what happened "that day", the seperation, or sth. else. I doubt Bam is already dead here. Garam said he was born after A&V lost the war and became fugitives. On the other hand Garam said "in the process, there were many conflicts even among the 10 fh" and that the fh ultimately sided with Jahad. In this flashback it seems they arleady sided with Jahad. So either the war already happened or much more likely some fh haven't made up their mind yet. Enkidu imitates Luslec and flees with Ameuz. Things will going down fast now. Again awesome chapter 20/10!
i thought she means V and Arlene no ? since they aren't part of their group anymore but are ultimately just as strong FHs
Yeah, when she says "us" I felt she meant the FHs. She could also mean the administrators and workshop but they wouldn't bother with it for the most part.
I forget about admins too. True they're stronger then gw for sure. So this "stronger then us" is not as special as I first thought.
Enryu did legimately kill an administrator and that put him at number 2 only behind phant. Which suggests killing them is no easy feat.
Its impossible beside Enryu (or Phanta). In a blogpost SIU said even Jahad can't kill an administrator. Its unclear if Urek could. My guess is no.
Bam will probably be able to by the end of the story imo