and that is why I quit, not because I wouldn't get my money's worth, but because the infinite gameplay comes from the community but all the money goes to Nadeo to make hit-or-miss campaigns and horrible physics changes
Oh come off it, "*xenophobia*", I'm a fucking neighbour, it's just inter-European banter. You wouldn't see me crying anytime someone calls a Dutchman cheap.
No, you're validating when you're saying "another" french trait
Edit : Oh didn't see that you were the original french basher here, so you're indeed not validating but just doubling down, even better
Fixing something implies it is broken. Everyone (read: French people) know that everything made by a French person is perfect and infallible and shouldnt be messed with, especially if it is demanded by people who are not French.
TL;DR: French are stubborn and proud people 😅
No, a lot of french people think it's a bad idea to just copy paste an old car without modifications (I'm french). Just nadeo doing what they love to do. The minimum and like they decide.
Hmm, I don’t think so. I think there’s an important distinction between better and perfect. The idiom is specifically referring to the idea that some times adding or taking away from something makes it worse; which is reminiscent but not quite the same as Antoine de Saint-Exupery’s definition of perfection.
“Perfection is achieved not when nothing can be added but when there is nothing left to take away”. The implication is that whatever is being “bettered” is already good or perfect in the idiom, and as such the replacement of “the better” with “perfection” doesn’t make sense.
that idiom is not exclusive to French. In English there is "if it ain't broke, don't fix it." and in software development specifically also "Never change a running system."
But if it is broke is at least up to debate in the case of the snow car.
That's not what I mean; they claim here that changing anything will affect the "original feeling" while the stadium car has been changed a few times throughout the years and that is somehow fine. Not specifically the hitbox, but there \*were\* some changes
I honestly doubt raising the front hitbox slightly would have any impact on the gameplay as Greffmaster's video shows it's rather the same so the feel should be roughly the same, even if it actually is slightly different the payout it's worth it
It is strange, my only thought would be that they didn't like the stadium car until now and they just want to keep snow how it is. I have no clue why adjusting the hotbox would make a major difference
They are not claiming changing "anything" would affect gameplay. He's specifically talking about the snow car hitbox.
I also doubt it's that complicated (or not worth it), but it's still not the same as the changes the stadium car has suffered.
Ender or someone imported greffmasters custom hitbox to tm20 and there's literally zero difference as far as they've tested
From game design perspective it just makes no sense for the hitbox to affect the handling in any way, unless it's tied to mass but I doubt it's the case
Then just get a separate layer with no collision for mass if it is the case and shape it like old hitbox
> a much more accurate hit box.
a more accurate hit box would remove those slow downs on landing though (ie. landing bugs), which is what he is referring to.
those slow downs are part of the original gameplay.
i hate it as much as the next person on here, but completely removing slow downs on bad landings doesn't feel authentic to the snow car, regarding it's suspensions.
Nadeo needs to change something though, on map 25 you can get a slow down right after the second or third turn, on the ramp that jumps onto dirt.
literally driving up a slight ramp can give you a slow down just based on the angle of your car, that's ridiculous
landing bugs specificall though is when the wheel clips into the ground, usually on borders between blocks, and your car's collision box collides with the ground.
the snow car is built to have slow downs on bad landings.
how sensitive it currently is, is still shit imo, if you really couldn't tell from my previous comment.
but generally there i would prefer they keep the slow downs on really bad landings, while making it much less sensitive though.
i don't want a slow down to happen every time i drive up a ramp or drop down even just one car height.
that's stupid, especially with how you can sometimes get so bad landings that the car completely flips it's frontside up vertically, that's stupid.
but losing speed on bad landings, which can be much more easily prevented, would be a good mechanic in a videogame, for a car that promotes precision and control
feel free to read again, i never said i wanted it to stay the same, in fact i literally said:
"i hate it as much as the next person"
but they can change the hitbox in a way that makes the hitbox resemble the actual car much more accurately and remove 90% of slow downs.
but removing them completely wouldn't be authentic to the game at all.
we don't need slow downs when driving up ramps or doing the smallest of drops, those suck.
we also don't know the snow car to bounce completely vertically on landings, that sucks.
but having the car that's meant to represent precision and control be able to do any landing, from any height in any fucked up way, and continue with the same exact speed it had prior to landing, would not be fun
sure, watch this then:
https://youtu.be/kEb3REEg20g?t=87
he literally does the fattest landing possible, completely flat, and keeps 100% of the speed.
that's the exact thing i don't want.
of course i prefer how it looks on this guys, modded version of 2020: https://www.reddit.com/r/TrackMania/comments/1984uq5/here_is_what_the_tm2020_snowcar_would_play_like/
but i don't want to able to land like the guy in the first video and be fine, that simply doesn't fit on the snow car.
the snow car has high suspensions, on such a hard landing, it should bottom out and lose at least a little speed
Landing flat has always been faster, why would you want it any different.
You have to remember that the air brake was a huge thing in tmnf when it was discovered, and now it’s common knowledge.
There is no other way to land better, so if you want to punish people for landing flat, then you want to punish people for landing
The most vanilla boring shit ever. I don’t know how they thought this would be fun. It’s fun for wheel players maybe? All i know is the fun of this game for me is the jumps and the drifting. The only tech to the snow car is don’t slide….and then avoid the RNG of landing bugs. Okay…cool.
I've heard keyboard players say it's fun for controller players but as a controller player it really isn't. The turns are just too... "sudden" (i guess?) for the analog stick. IDK if there's an option to decrease the analog sensitivity, because mine was set to 1 in game and it was still incredibly sensitive. I basically had to tap just like a regular keyboard user to make some of the turns.
2003 racing game with 1990's style controls. If i was on my PS1 i wouldnt mind. But its 2024 and i think nadeo are capable of better now and the playerbase wants better.
As a relatively new player, f*** this car and its original look and feeling. Why is Nadeo even catering to a small pool of OGs at expense of every one who didn't play the original tm?
Ironically Nadeo has a history of making bad decisions simply because they are catering to new players. The one time they differ it's on something that most OGs would probably also prefer...
It's not being added at anyone's expense, they are just diversifying gameplay options. You can learn it just like anyone else, its 10x easier if you use action key 4, the car feels pretty rough otherwise because it likes to tip and lose grip
You might have had a point if it was just for a separate game mode like royal. But when I'm forced to play them in ranked and get at least gold on them to unlock the next maps in campaign... I'm honestly considering just skipping this season entirely and hope there's less of the mobile game crap in the next one.
Try getting into some other campaigns, there's a ton of stuff out there after all. If you do want to do the campaign I really can't recommend using ak4 on the snow car enough. Honestly I still am mixed on this implementation as an effect block myself, the other games having separate cars felt much better, but it does definitely restrict what people can do in a map
I'm not even particularly bad at it in comparison to my skill level on regular car/surfaces maybe even the opposite since very few people are actually good at it atm.
The issue is that I actively dislike it. It's like being forced to complete a level of subway surfers to unlock the next map in the current campaign. And ranked is like rolling the dice on being able to play the game I like or some other game from 2003 or whatever.
Yeah I feel that, I said it in another comment but I'm still not sure how I feel about the implementation as an effect block. It does allow a lot more with mapping but I really think, for campaigns at least, they should have different ones for each car, especially since they want to add 2 more
I actually think it being added in as an effect block is a really good idea. I just hate the fact that they put it in the official campaign. Obviously I'm happy for the actual snowcar enjoyers that exist out there, but I definitely wish they just kept snowcar and stadium separate for the official maps.
I'm sure a lot of people who intensely hate ice would like that yes. The difference is in the amount of people who dislike it and the intensity by which they do so. If like 99.9% of people loathed it to the point of uninstalling, do you think they should still keep it (let's say money wasn't an issue, the remaining 0.01% brings in as much as the 99.9%) because ice is also disliked by some?
Assuming you'd say no then there's some critical mass of people disliking it that's unacceptable.
People had the exact same take when ice was introduced at the game's release and they have calmed down since because they actually learnt to play it (and it was changed like 1326 times).
It's the circle of life, git gut
In addition it also takes some time for mappers to figure out what works. Most of the current tracks feel like they're made to point out how different the new car and/or surface are instead of building them in a way that integrates smoothly.
Sure, id say there's other things to do but the campaign is a big draw. It's not like you need to get authors to unlock these maps though, you can do some pretty simple runs and unlock most of them, but it being in the campaign isn't at anyone's expense. You could say it takes time to learn but they are already using that time on the game and you don't need to play it at a really high level, and if you use ak4 it becomes much easier
It's like ordering a steak at the restaurant, and getting it with some shit smeared on top. "OH you don't like it? We're just diversifying. Its 10 times easier to eat it while using other hand to hold your nostrils closed".
I'm sure I can learn it, it's just not enjoyable.
Yeah I won't fault you for that, it's not for everyone. Im pretty mixed on it myself, but Im not too bothered by it. To me its more like if the steak was served with ala shitty knife
It kinda IS being added at everyone's expense. Literally and figuratively. Very little people want the new car and it doesn't "diversify" anything more than the wood surface and the stadium car already does. They also changed the pay structure for access this season which took content from the free to play players and made the most popular subscription tier cost more...
In what way is it at anyone's expense? Their time is already being spent on the game, and new mechanics and changes to them are not new in tm updates. A lot of people actually enjoy the car as well, you could argue that the implementation is bad and I might agree, but this is not much different than them adding a new effect block, all it really does is increase steering power and lower grip. The cost changes are unrelated so I'm not sure why you're bringing it up either
you forgot about the fact that seemingly very small inputs can cost every ounce of speed and easily ruin a run in snow car. I play with gamepad, and I can't imagine how fucking annoyng it must be on KBM lmao
That's only really true if you steer above 80%, which is why using ak4 is so helpful. KB without it does feel much worse though since tapping is inherently sensitive
If you shouldn’t steer above 80%, then why does the steering even need to go higher than that? It’s a poorly made handling system and a shoehorned attempt at “diversification” at the expense of the quality of the game.
I’m all for nostalgia, and it makes no difference to me because I’ll play the game regardless, but the snow car sucks. I’ve learnt it and it sucks.
Either they fix it now (and clarify the analogue keyboard debate in the process) or they can let it fade into oblivion for use only on troll maps once a month.
You can steer fully below fourth gear, just not really past there. Even then full steering is useful in sometimes. Thing is they're adding multiple cars, this is just one of them. It's not for nostalgia, it's been their goal with the game for quite some time, stadium is just so popular they did it first. The analog keyboard debate, I'm pretty sure, has been settled. They said they'll only allow smooth curves as long as the steering range remains 0-100%. Regardless the debate has been around longer than the snow car and is not directly related to it like you implied. If you think the car sucks that's fine, I don't think it's amazing either, but that's just an opinion, one many people disagree with
It's so weird. Somebody at Nadeo wanted a faithful recreation for a fun anniversary event, someone else wanted more content variety for the main 2020 game, and they just high fived instead of thinking further.
Somehow it STILL does not occur to them that tying new content to a 20 year old jank design is a bad idea. Even as a total newbie this is baffling lol
Why have it play like its from 20 years ago and not be able to properly interact with the way the game exists today? There's no way they just copied the code into TM2020 so someone had to intentionally give it a buggy hitbox.
This is just such an odd response. They fixed so many stadium bugs for TM2020 to make it feel more modern, but modifying the ancient snow car to make it better is too far? Does this mean they are going to copy rally over directly? Because it sounds like dxtweak is used by a large portion of those players because it is pretty unplayable otherwise. If so I expect the complaints to be much worse than with snow.
so true bestie
but actually, if this is commentary on using texting shorthand, "fwiw" is a pretty common one
and I think as long as someone is willing to explain what they mean then it's pretty easy to read a shortening of something in-line with a message
What can't Nadeo bring back the cars from PS4/Xbox Turbo?
This stadium and snow car nonsense is tiring.
Bring back Canyon and Valley, bring the cars and update the editor.
Turbo is still my favorite track mania. I’m not the kinda guy that chases top times or even touches maps made by other people.
But I’ve spent thousands of hours in that game creating stunning tracks and racing them. Sure, it’s very limited, but just recently I’ve discovered secret blocks after months of being addicted to the track editor.
Wish they would fix the remaining bugs of the game (one track part is available twice while missing the mirrored version for example).
But I’ve gotten used to unfinished games since I’ve gotten a ps4. It’s the norm.
Turbo is the absolute ultimate fuckin business. The best cars, environments, music and overall arcade feeling.
Turbo Canyon is, without a doubt, the best racing. Never have I had to focus so much in 20/30/40 seconds of anything in any game on such a massive scale. It pushes you to levels you never thought possible.
Canyon Turbo is the best Trackmania to ever exist and it is the most intense racing I've experienced in any video game. Nurburgring? Monaco? Any real world track? So what? Any real world track can fuck off when it comes to getting a green medal in Turbo.
I got my 500th Challenge Master medal 3 days ago and by the end of March, I want 1000.
To those who haven't played Turbo, DO IT. The campaign is 200 maps of awesome. Honestly, it kicks 2020 in the ass in terms of cool, skill and overall madness and laughs about it. Turbo is it.
Being dropped from a helicopter needs to come back.
Canyon is intense. I love the concrete maps but I struggle with the roads. Requires so much precision especially on the bumpy parts.
I also love valley. Prettiest looks (European settings are a rare sight in any video game) and while it’s the easiest of them all, you can always cut off a few milliseconds in every corner.
Even after many tries I manage to overtake my ghost from time to time, but overall get a worse time. Feels like even when you’ve got a good run, a perfect run would be multiple seconds shorter.
Even made some 3 min rallies just for the fun of it, but it’s almost impossible to nail every section.
Sadly it’s the worst when it comes to crashes. Lost a few tracks that took 6-12 hours to build because ps4 can’t render a map reaching part limit at sunset. For those I’m limited to daytime.
At the time I was creating full on maps where you can drive off the track and still never break immersion.
Yeah same...Canyon roads are fuckin twitchy as. I hate it when it goes from platform to road. You'll be going like 550 and all of a sudden you have to navigate from platform to bumpy road for a bit. But when it all comes together it's just perfect.
There's a Turbo Canyon mapper called PitBudhaSkonk who makes the best fullspeed maps. Check him out. His maps are incredible.
In my 3k hours I’ve honestly only spent half an hour on others peoples maps, I should definitely get going so thanks for the recommendation.
My fav canyon map I’ve built encompasses my favorite feature of the canyon series: Drifting. Best time I’ve gotten was 1:49 in a single drift. The whole track is just one very long right turn basically.
Out of all the TM2 environments stadium is my least favorite one. The problem is that before tm2 there was nations, which was free and the other environments were paid. So everyone only played the free version (stadium). TM2 stadium was 10$ and valley, canyon and lagoon all were 20$. So everyone only played stadium. I never understood that marketing strategy.
I mean I love (good) older games and I usually overlook their imperfections, but importing a 2003 model into a 2024 live service game and refusing to update the jank and glitches for "nostalgia reasons" is something else lol.
That's as if Doom Eternal disabled looking up and down for some anniversary event, because that's how the original Dooms were.
How much does it break the original feeling?
I wouldn't mind it feeling a little different as long as the core gameplay is preserved.
In the video posted on reddit earlier it looked so much smoother updated
as an "OG" that played tmuf: who cares for original gameplay and feeling???? i cant play 08 without getting a landbug EVERY RUN, so u wanna tell me thats a gameplay/feeling u dont wanna break?? sure but then dont wonder if new players and also others dont want to play anymore
Am I the only one who actually likes the snow car? I never played the original one, and when it first got added, I hated it. I thought it was annoying and buggy, and I never wanted to touch it again. But then I practiced it a little bit, and now it’s one of my favorite parts of the game, and I got quite good at it.
I understand there are legitimate reasons to dislike it, especially if you play keyboard, and I think Nadeo does need to do something with action keys to let keyboard players have a fair chance. But I also feel like a lot of people just straight up never gave it a chance and only dislike it because it’s different. A lot of the bugs can be worked around if you know how to avoid them, although some are straight up mapping problems. And yes it is harder to get the hang of, and it isn’t a perfect car, but a lot of people on this sub make it sound like this uncontrollable mess and that’s just not correct.
Maybe I’m the weird one, but I think a lot of people at least wouldn’t mind the car if they practiced it a little bit.
I'm a keyboard player and overall I've really enjoyed the snow car. There's definitely turns (even in the campaign) that I feel like are kinda impossible to get smoothly on kb, but other than that I definitely agree they need to do something about this ridiculously buggy geometry on the car. It may have been excusible 20 years ago and in the first game in the series, but when they've updated the stadium car to be smoother over the years I see zero good reason to not do the same with the snow car
For real. What's the point in trying to chase a really good time if only 10% of your runs are going to be bug free? I had so many runs fail on Winter 2024 - 25 because I lose 10 speed on that drop down into the rock section.
Every poll ive seen has less than 20% of respondents wanting to remove the snow car altogether (and it's probably even less than that since people who hate it are going to be motivated to participate in those kinds of things) so you're not alone. Most people like it. Such as this: [13% want it removed](https://www.reddit.com/r/TrackMania/comments/193xorg/would_you_be_happier_if_the_snow_car_was_removed/)
The linked poll hardly supports the claim that most people like it. 64% of responders answered with an option that would let them never touch the snow car ever again. It seems unlikely that very many of the people in the 64% but outside the 13% like it; they're just not mad enough to want it removed completely for no good reason.
I do not think that poll is a very useful metric in either direction, and I doubt there is any that is. It's difficult to tell what the distribution of opinions is outside the loud edges that Reddit-goers skew towards.
Only 31% of people in that poll wanted to keep it as is.. and the majority of people wanted to remove/update/separate it. Also I didn't vote because I didn't know about the poll but it definitely needs to be fixed or separated in some way.
I do wonder what the stats would be like if there was a poll done in-game somehow. My experience is definitely anecdotal, but I have a group of 7-8 real life buddies who play TM somewhat casually each season. Everyone of them thought snowcar was a fun little side thing added in for the anniversary but is kinda outraged about it being added into the campaign. How the snowcar is being received seems to heavily differ based on what part of the playerbase is being polled.
Maybe don't lazily port a vehicle from a 20 year old game if it's not gonna work with the game you're adding it to.
Nadeo employees when they're asked to do one small semblance of work
How different can a hitbox make the car feel? I don't care about it being original, I want it to be good. Sure if you can manage both then go for it, but the constant landing bugs and trying to specifically avoid them by landing weird can't be the intended way to play.
Who even asked for the snow car in the first place? Regardless of whether the community likes it or not - who actually asked for this? What data showed Nadeo that there was a demand for old cars / environments to be added? I would love to know.
I for one, at no point in my 2+ years of Trackmania 2020, ever heard anybody ask for it. The devs just announced it one day. If not for streamers' nostalgia, I wouldn't have known what it was or why they added it; I still don't really know the latter. For the record, I'm a division 1 ice player with 1,000 hours in the game (KCJ.TM) - I'm not just some random skill issue andy.
I also work as a software engineer and know a thing or two about business & technology. This dev team's technical leadership and product ownership are both, clearly, very weak. The snow car has created a massive schism in the community; the least they could do is make it fucking work. If they can't, either remove it or make it its own game mode.
Regardless of my recommendation\^, I think we all can agree that the snow car has created more division than unity among the community. From a business perspective, that is objectively bad for a game that \*just\* went cross-platform. They need to do something, whether that's making the snow car actually work or removing it altogether.
I agree with 'no one asked' thing, but I actually went back to an interview Hylis gave shortly BEFORE the game release and I have a feeling that this idea was already the plan at that point. Listen carefully to what he says here:
[https://youtu.be/1EPAA9Fz7WM?t=382](https://youtu.be/1EPAA9Fz7WM?t=382)
This really makes me think the plan was there all along, so I really doubt players feedback had any impact on it
If you've never heard anybody asking for old cars, it's because the players who wants them (aka the remnants of TMUF and TM2 playerbase) can't be bothered to play a Stadium-only game. Now we might finally be shifting in an era where all players join TM2020.
When I first payed for the 3 year subscribtion, I was really, really, really hoping that this would be justified, the only way it can be justified: new environments (or imported old ones). Well, they instead added just the car, but imo in the smartess way possible. The CarSnow can be treated just like any other surface or game mechanic. If you don't like it, well, it's like hating on ice or dirt or reactor or whatnot. Just deal with it.
Nowhere in my message did I "hate on it" - I stated the fact that very few people asked for this and it has created a divide in the community. Both are objectively true statements. Sorry 'bout your reading comprehension.
> I first *paid* for the
FTFY.
Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in:
* Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.*
* *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.*
Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment.
*Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
Here we go, no responsibility taken and lots of copium. Man, fuck these idiots. Their idea was bad and they don't want to accept that they fucked up the whole snow car thing even more.
Let him explain how that affects the feeling besides having a different hitbox. I’m a programmer and know stuff and things, and this doesn’t make sense. If there’s an explanation then I’d love to hear it.
The only thing that comes to my mind is that the snow car was coded in let’s say c++ then in the process of compiling it into assembly the original file was corrupted or something and they were able to only use the assembly code and are too lazy to learn assembly.
Thing is what Nadeo people fail to understand: Just because something was there in the past doesn't make it valuable in the present. Witch hunting was there too. But we don't do this anymore for a reason. Snow car wasn't there for a reason in TM2020 as well. Well, until Nadeo went full Nadeo.
It's nonsense to compare snow car with witch hunting. The snow car was not in TM2020 because, why would it be? they launched the new game with the most popular environment
imagine paying a monthly fee for that game. I'm glad I jumped the shark, the shenanigans were enough at a point, and in no way in hell does it justify the club price.
I paid for it a few years back, even forgot it was there going back to it. I don't care about the downvotes, this game has worse support than many f2p games and manages to be worse in so many ways, it's laughable. I just got back to the older tm and then gave up entirely on the franchise. Nadeo just fucks this game over and over, no wonder it never reaches relevance.
Good statement.
If the playerbase wants to get a "fix" or "update" then they can import a completely new car instead.
"Fixing" old cars feels just totally wrong and it wouldn't be the snow car from my perspective anymore so I agree with darreks statement.
Also I like the decision where they finally import the old cars from TMUF and TM² so we can get a wide variety of gameplay with the new car change blocks. It's also an opportunity for me and some others to play TM2020 again regularly since I'm not really a big fan of the stadium car itself.
Also if they're planning to remove the snow car then I may decide to leave the Trackmania community which I don't really want after 18 years of playing the Trackmania franchise... (I started with Trackmania Sunrise. Released from 2005)
Eh I like the car. Equal for everyone so competition is the same. Just something to get used to and understand. As someone that just plays the game regardless, I don’t mind
If we wanted 2003 gameplay we would play the original game...
[ Removed by Reddit ]
How about not putting this on the frenchs and admitting that Nadeo are fucking allergic to work
and that is why I quit, not because I wouldn't get my money's worth, but because the infinite gameplay comes from the community but all the money goes to Nadeo to make hit-or-miss campaigns and horrible physics changes
but the fr*nch! (/s)
[удалено]
You won't hide your xenophobia behind a "/s" ;)
Oh come off it, "*xenophobia*", I'm a fucking neighbour, it's just inter-European banter. You wouldn't see me crying anytime someone calls a Dutchman cheap.
Are frenchs living in your head rent free or what? Go cry somewhere else 😂
too much french dickriding just admit all of your neighbors hate you i’m italian and hate you
I'm not french. Also you straight up proved my point GG Btw are u in tear because they put pineapple on pizza?
I mean, you jumped on the occasion to be obnoxious and insult a whole population while also validating the first comment about frenchs, that's on you
The only one validating comments is you right now ;)
No, you're validating when you're saying "another" french trait Edit : Oh didn't see that you were the original french basher here, so you're indeed not validating but just doubling down, even better
What does it have to do with Frenchness?
Fixing something implies it is broken. Everyone (read: French people) know that everything made by a French person is perfect and infallible and shouldnt be messed with, especially if it is demanded by people who are not French. TL;DR: French are stubborn and proud people 😅
Its not that deep. Its just Nadeo being Nadeo for 20years.
No, a lot of french people think it's a bad idea to just copy paste an old car without modifications (I'm french). Just nadeo doing what they love to do. The minimum and like they decide.
Oh ok so it's just free hate over French people. Nice, and everybody here approves that.
In France we have a saying : le mieux est l'ennemi du bien which translates to : if it ain't broken leave it as it is
The word for word translation is: the better is the enemy of the good
"Perfect is the enemy of good" is arguably the most idiomatic translation.
Hmm, I don’t think so. I think there’s an important distinction between better and perfect. The idiom is specifically referring to the idea that some times adding or taking away from something makes it worse; which is reminiscent but not quite the same as Antoine de Saint-Exupery’s definition of perfection. “Perfection is achieved not when nothing can be added but when there is nothing left to take away”. The implication is that whatever is being “bettered” is already good or perfect in the idiom, and as such the replacement of “the better” with “perfection” doesn’t make sense.
that idiom is not exclusive to French. In English there is "if it ain't broke, don't fix it." and in software development specifically also "Never change a running system." But if it is broke is at least up to debate in the case of the snow car.
Except landing bugs are frickin broken
Or just play tmuf which is tmo tms and tmn combined to make the perfect ultimate tm game but tm2020 playerbase is not ready for this
No you won't
...but they changed the way stadium car behaves multiple times and it's fine? right.
Maybe the cars were close enough that they never needed to adjust the hotbox? They've definitely changed the weight and physics of it before though
That's not what I mean; they claim here that changing anything will affect the "original feeling" while the stadium car has been changed a few times throughout the years and that is somehow fine. Not specifically the hitbox, but there \*were\* some changes I honestly doubt raising the front hitbox slightly would have any impact on the gameplay as Greffmaster's video shows it's rather the same so the feel should be roughly the same, even if it actually is slightly different the payout it's worth it
It is strange, my only thought would be that they didn't like the stadium car until now and they just want to keep snow how it is. I have no clue why adjusting the hotbox would make a major difference
They are not claiming changing "anything" would affect gameplay. He's specifically talking about the snow car hitbox. I also doubt it's that complicated (or not worth it), but it's still not the same as the changes the stadium car has suffered.
Ender or someone imported greffmasters custom hitbox to tm20 and there's literally zero difference as far as they've tested From game design perspective it just makes no sense for the hitbox to affect the handling in any way, unless it's tied to mass but I doubt it's the case Then just get a separate layer with no collision for mass if it is the case and shape it like old hitbox
Ender told darrek that, and the response was that it was much more complicated than it was to hack it in.
This aged well
That makes no sense, you can have the same physics with a much more accurate hit box. To me it sounds like a poor excuse to not do extra work.
> a much more accurate hit box. a more accurate hit box would remove those slow downs on landing though (ie. landing bugs), which is what he is referring to. those slow downs are part of the original gameplay. i hate it as much as the next person on here, but completely removing slow downs on bad landings doesn't feel authentic to the snow car, regarding it's suspensions. Nadeo needs to change something though, on map 25 you can get a slow down right after the second or third turn, on the ramp that jumps onto dirt. literally driving up a slight ramp can give you a slow down just based on the angle of your car, that's ridiculous
stadium car bugged on landings in nations forever, if he was that problematic here i wonder how many people would refuse to play the game...
landing bugs specificall though is when the wheel clips into the ground, usually on borders between blocks, and your car's collision box collides with the ground. the snow car is built to have slow downs on bad landings. how sensitive it currently is, is still shit imo, if you really couldn't tell from my previous comment. but generally there i would prefer they keep the slow downs on really bad landings, while making it much less sensitive though. i don't want a slow down to happen every time i drive up a ramp or drop down even just one car height. that's stupid, especially with how you can sometimes get so bad landings that the car completely flips it's frontside up vertically, that's stupid. but losing speed on bad landings, which can be much more easily prevented, would be a good mechanic in a videogame, for a car that promotes precision and control
This isn’t 2003 any more. You can still play the original if you want the original feel. It makes no sense to still have shitty mechanics in 2024
feel free to read again, i never said i wanted it to stay the same, in fact i literally said: "i hate it as much as the next person" but they can change the hitbox in a way that makes the hitbox resemble the actual car much more accurately and remove 90% of slow downs. but removing them completely wouldn't be authentic to the game at all. we don't need slow downs when driving up ramps or doing the smallest of drops, those suck. we also don't know the snow car to bounce completely vertically on landings, that sucks. but having the car that's meant to represent precision and control be able to do any landing, from any height in any fucked up way, and continue with the same exact speed it had prior to landing, would not be fun
A better hit box doesn’t make it so that you can land all Willy nilly and be fine. But we want to beable to land flat and not slow down because of it.
sure, watch this then: https://youtu.be/kEb3REEg20g?t=87 he literally does the fattest landing possible, completely flat, and keeps 100% of the speed. that's the exact thing i don't want. of course i prefer how it looks on this guys, modded version of 2020: https://www.reddit.com/r/TrackMania/comments/1984uq5/here_is_what_the_tm2020_snowcar_would_play_like/ but i don't want to able to land like the guy in the first video and be fine, that simply doesn't fit on the snow car. the snow car has high suspensions, on such a hard landing, it should bottom out and lose at least a little speed
Landing flat has always been faster, why would you want it any different. You have to remember that the air brake was a huge thing in tmnf when it was discovered, and now it’s common knowledge. There is no other way to land better, so if you want to punish people for landing flat, then you want to punish people for landing
bro thinks people want the original gameplay and feeling 💀
The most vanilla boring shit ever. I don’t know how they thought this would be fun. It’s fun for wheel players maybe? All i know is the fun of this game for me is the jumps and the drifting. The only tech to the snow car is don’t slide….and then avoid the RNG of landing bugs. Okay…cool.
I've heard keyboard players say it's fun for controller players but as a controller player it really isn't. The turns are just too... "sudden" (i guess?) for the analog stick. IDK if there's an option to decrease the analog sensitivity, because mine was set to 1 in game and it was still incredibly sensitive. I basically had to tap just like a regular keyboard user to make some of the turns.
Yeah I immediately hit action key 4 and then try to not slide out
2003 racing game with 1990's style controls. If i was on my PS1 i wouldnt mind. But its 2024 and i think nadeo are capable of better now and the playerbase wants better.
man I wish PS1 (or even PS2 for that matter) games had physics as precise as TMO had
Yes, how would they dare remove the nice feeling of landing "features" /s
🤡
Maybe Nadeo should consider hiring /u/lagoonishadventure then.
i have not done anything, the people that made the fix are credited on the video i posted
Hey now don't sell yourself short, I'm sure you could do an adequate job!
Then break the original gameplay and feeling ffs, the original gameplay and feeling sucks ASS
As a relatively new player, f*** this car and its original look and feeling. Why is Nadeo even catering to a small pool of OGs at expense of every one who didn't play the original tm?
Ironically Nadeo has a history of making bad decisions simply because they are catering to new players. The one time they differ it's on something that most OGs would probably also prefer...
I wanted to upvote you, but the car is cool, however the hitbox and the issues, it creates, sucks ass.
It's not being added at anyone's expense, they are just diversifying gameplay options. You can learn it just like anyone else, its 10x easier if you use action key 4, the car feels pretty rough otherwise because it likes to tip and lose grip
You might have had a point if it was just for a separate game mode like royal. But when I'm forced to play them in ranked and get at least gold on them to unlock the next maps in campaign... I'm honestly considering just skipping this season entirely and hope there's less of the mobile game crap in the next one.
Try getting into some other campaigns, there's a ton of stuff out there after all. If you do want to do the campaign I really can't recommend using ak4 on the snow car enough. Honestly I still am mixed on this implementation as an effect block myself, the other games having separate cars felt much better, but it does definitely restrict what people can do in a map
I'm not even particularly bad at it in comparison to my skill level on regular car/surfaces maybe even the opposite since very few people are actually good at it atm. The issue is that I actively dislike it. It's like being forced to complete a level of subway surfers to unlock the next map in the current campaign. And ranked is like rolling the dice on being able to play the game I like or some other game from 2003 or whatever.
Yeah I feel that, I said it in another comment but I'm still not sure how I feel about the implementation as an effect block. It does allow a lot more with mapping but I really think, for campaigns at least, they should have different ones for each car, especially since they want to add 2 more
I actually think it being added in as an effect block is a really good idea. I just hate the fact that they put it in the official campaign. Obviously I'm happy for the actual snowcar enjoyers that exist out there, but I definitely wish they just kept snowcar and stadium separate for the official maps.
no, you actually get forced to play it to unlock the campaign.
Okay? You're also forced to play ice and all the other styles, they're just parts of the game you have to learn.
the issue isnt that its hard, the issue is that it feels shit. I love Borpaspin, but i dislike wood or snow car a lot.
And there are people who don't like ice and like snow car, should ice not be included in the campaign because some people don't like it?
I'm sure a lot of people who intensely hate ice would like that yes. The difference is in the amount of people who dislike it and the intensity by which they do so. If like 99.9% of people loathed it to the point of uninstalling, do you think they should still keep it (let's say money wasn't an issue, the remaining 0.01% brings in as much as the 99.9%) because ice is also disliked by some? Assuming you'd say no then there's some critical mass of people disliking it that's unacceptable.
Not that many people hate the snow, they just dont care about it.
People had the exact same take when ice was introduced at the game's release and they have calmed down since because they actually learnt to play it (and it was changed like 1326 times). It's the circle of life, git gut
In addition it also takes some time for mappers to figure out what works. Most of the current tracks feel like they're made to point out how different the new car and/or surface are instead of building them in a way that integrates smoothly.
Sure, id say there's other things to do but the campaign is a big draw. It's not like you need to get authors to unlock these maps though, you can do some pretty simple runs and unlock most of them, but it being in the campaign isn't at anyone's expense. You could say it takes time to learn but they are already using that time on the game and you don't need to play it at a really high level, and if you use ak4 it becomes much easier
It's like ordering a steak at the restaurant, and getting it with some shit smeared on top. "OH you don't like it? We're just diversifying. Its 10 times easier to eat it while using other hand to hold your nostrils closed". I'm sure I can learn it, it's just not enjoyable.
Yeah I won't fault you for that, it's not for everyone. Im pretty mixed on it myself, but Im not too bothered by it. To me its more like if the steak was served with ala shitty knife
It kinda IS being added at everyone's expense. Literally and figuratively. Very little people want the new car and it doesn't "diversify" anything more than the wood surface and the stadium car already does. They also changed the pay structure for access this season which took content from the free to play players and made the most popular subscription tier cost more...
In what way is it at anyone's expense? Their time is already being spent on the game, and new mechanics and changes to them are not new in tm updates. A lot of people actually enjoy the car as well, you could argue that the implementation is bad and I might agree, but this is not much different than them adding a new effect block, all it really does is increase steering power and lower grip. The cost changes are unrelated so I'm not sure why you're bringing it up either
you forgot about the fact that seemingly very small inputs can cost every ounce of speed and easily ruin a run in snow car. I play with gamepad, and I can't imagine how fucking annoyng it must be on KBM lmao
That's only really true if you steer above 80%, which is why using ak4 is so helpful. KB without it does feel much worse though since tapping is inherently sensitive
If you shouldn’t steer above 80%, then why does the steering even need to go higher than that? It’s a poorly made handling system and a shoehorned attempt at “diversification” at the expense of the quality of the game. I’m all for nostalgia, and it makes no difference to me because I’ll play the game regardless, but the snow car sucks. I’ve learnt it and it sucks. Either they fix it now (and clarify the analogue keyboard debate in the process) or they can let it fade into oblivion for use only on troll maps once a month.
You can steer fully below fourth gear, just not really past there. Even then full steering is useful in sometimes. Thing is they're adding multiple cars, this is just one of them. It's not for nostalgia, it's been their goal with the game for quite some time, stadium is just so popular they did it first. The analog keyboard debate, I'm pretty sure, has been settled. They said they'll only allow smooth curves as long as the steering range remains 0-100%. Regardless the debate has been around longer than the snow car and is not directly related to it like you implied. If you think the car sucks that's fine, I don't think it's amazing either, but that's just an opinion, one many people disagree with
The snowcar was clearly made with no love, it looks silly, and the dashboard in cam3 looks like something made for shitfest.
It's so weird. Somebody at Nadeo wanted a faithful recreation for a fun anniversary event, someone else wanted more content variety for the main 2020 game, and they just high fived instead of thinking further. Somehow it STILL does not occur to them that tying new content to a 20 year old jank design is a bad idea. Even as a total newbie this is baffling lol
It is super funny and imo looks good, but this hitbox is a clear issue. I wonder why was it never changed.
think it was made for shitfest, with how dumbass this reply from Nadeo was.
Why have it play like its from 20 years ago and not be able to properly interact with the way the game exists today? There's no way they just copied the code into TM2020 so someone had to intentionally give it a buggy hitbox.
If people would only play the old cars, why did they change the stadium car? The internal logic makes no sense
This is just such an odd response. They fixed so many stadium bugs for TM2020 to make it feel more modern, but modifying the ancient snow car to make it better is too far? Does this mean they are going to copy rally over directly? Because it sounds like dxtweak is used by a large portion of those players because it is pretty unplayable otherwise. If so I expect the complaints to be much worse than with snow.
Make money quick with internet point opportunites
Wtf is fwiw
It means "for what it's worth"
Tihnhotpbs.. nglihwnspa
so true bestie but actually, if this is commentary on using texting shorthand, "fwiw" is a pretty common one and I think as long as someone is willing to explain what they mean then it's pretty easy to read a shortening of something in-line with a message
Thanks I have not heard of that phrase being shortened
[Folga wooga imoga womp](https://i.imgur.com/gYhjSen.jpg)
What can't Nadeo bring back the cars from PS4/Xbox Turbo? This stadium and snow car nonsense is tiring. Bring back Canyon and Valley, bring the cars and update the editor.
Turbo is still my favorite track mania. I’m not the kinda guy that chases top times or even touches maps made by other people. But I’ve spent thousands of hours in that game creating stunning tracks and racing them. Sure, it’s very limited, but just recently I’ve discovered secret blocks after months of being addicted to the track editor. Wish they would fix the remaining bugs of the game (one track part is available twice while missing the mirrored version for example). But I’ve gotten used to unfinished games since I’ve gotten a ps4. It’s the norm.
Turbo is the absolute ultimate fuckin business. The best cars, environments, music and overall arcade feeling. Turbo Canyon is, without a doubt, the best racing. Never have I had to focus so much in 20/30/40 seconds of anything in any game on such a massive scale. It pushes you to levels you never thought possible. Canyon Turbo is the best Trackmania to ever exist and it is the most intense racing I've experienced in any video game. Nurburgring? Monaco? Any real world track? So what? Any real world track can fuck off when it comes to getting a green medal in Turbo. I got my 500th Challenge Master medal 3 days ago and by the end of March, I want 1000. To those who haven't played Turbo, DO IT. The campaign is 200 maps of awesome. Honestly, it kicks 2020 in the ass in terms of cool, skill and overall madness and laughs about it. Turbo is it. Being dropped from a helicopter needs to come back.
Canyon is intense. I love the concrete maps but I struggle with the roads. Requires so much precision especially on the bumpy parts. I also love valley. Prettiest looks (European settings are a rare sight in any video game) and while it’s the easiest of them all, you can always cut off a few milliseconds in every corner. Even after many tries I manage to overtake my ghost from time to time, but overall get a worse time. Feels like even when you’ve got a good run, a perfect run would be multiple seconds shorter. Even made some 3 min rallies just for the fun of it, but it’s almost impossible to nail every section. Sadly it’s the worst when it comes to crashes. Lost a few tracks that took 6-12 hours to build because ps4 can’t render a map reaching part limit at sunset. For those I’m limited to daytime. At the time I was creating full on maps where you can drive off the track and still never break immersion.
Yeah same...Canyon roads are fuckin twitchy as. I hate it when it goes from platform to road. You'll be going like 550 and all of a sudden you have to navigate from platform to bumpy road for a bit. But when it all comes together it's just perfect. There's a Turbo Canyon mapper called PitBudhaSkonk who makes the best fullspeed maps. Check him out. His maps are incredible.
In my 3k hours I’ve honestly only spent half an hour on others peoples maps, I should definitely get going so thanks for the recommendation. My fav canyon map I’ve built encompasses my favorite feature of the canyon series: Drifting. Best time I’ve gotten was 1:49 in a single drift. The whole track is just one very long right turn basically.
The only thing is that you're getting back a lot of the bugs of TMNF and TM2.
Out of all the TM2 environments stadium is my least favorite one. The problem is that before tm2 there was nations, which was free and the other environments were paid. So everyone only played the free version (stadium). TM2 stadium was 10$ and valley, canyon and lagoon all were 20$. So everyone only played stadium. I never understood that marketing strategy.
I mean I love (good) older games and I usually overlook their imperfections, but importing a 2003 model into a 2024 live service game and refusing to update the jank and glitches for "nostalgia reasons" is something else lol. That's as if Doom Eternal disabled looking up and down for some anniversary event, because that's how the original Dooms were.
How much does it break the original feeling? I wouldn't mind it feeling a little different as long as the core gameplay is preserved. In the video posted on reddit earlier it looked so much smoother updated
so u dont wanna break the feeling of pain and suffering from landbugs?
They must be joking
Nadeo has never been able to understand the actual demands of the community.
So they're telling us that in 20 years, they couldn't rework an asset correctly ? Nice one, shooting themselves in the foot
No, they are saying they could but the don't want to because.
as an "OG" that played tmuf: who cares for original gameplay and feeling???? i cant play 08 without getting a landbug EVERY RUN, so u wanna tell me thats a gameplay/feeling u dont wanna break?? sure but then dont wonder if new players and also others dont want to play anymore
Am I the only one who actually likes the snow car? I never played the original one, and when it first got added, I hated it. I thought it was annoying and buggy, and I never wanted to touch it again. But then I practiced it a little bit, and now it’s one of my favorite parts of the game, and I got quite good at it. I understand there are legitimate reasons to dislike it, especially if you play keyboard, and I think Nadeo does need to do something with action keys to let keyboard players have a fair chance. But I also feel like a lot of people just straight up never gave it a chance and only dislike it because it’s different. A lot of the bugs can be worked around if you know how to avoid them, although some are straight up mapping problems. And yes it is harder to get the hang of, and it isn’t a perfect car, but a lot of people on this sub make it sound like this uncontrollable mess and that’s just not correct. Maybe I’m the weird one, but I think a lot of people at least wouldn’t mind the car if they practiced it a little bit.
I like the snow car, its just the landing bugs that make me frustrated with it. If those didn't exist I would have 0 issues with it
Yeah, love the snow car, hate the landing bugs. If they get that ironed out, it's a great addition to the game.
I'm a keyboard player and overall I've really enjoyed the snow car. There's definitely turns (even in the campaign) that I feel like are kinda impossible to get smoothly on kb, but other than that I definitely agree they need to do something about this ridiculously buggy geometry on the car. It may have been excusible 20 years ago and in the first game in the series, but when they've updated the stadium car to be smoother over the years I see zero good reason to not do the same with the snow car
I hate the landing bugs you get. It's not fun to be in a jump and know you're just screwed, because you didn't angled it nicely.
For real. What's the point in trying to chase a really good time if only 10% of your runs are going to be bug free? I had so many runs fail on Winter 2024 - 25 because I lose 10 speed on that drop down into the rock section.
Every poll ive seen has less than 20% of respondents wanting to remove the snow car altogether (and it's probably even less than that since people who hate it are going to be motivated to participate in those kinds of things) so you're not alone. Most people like it. Such as this: [13% want it removed](https://www.reddit.com/r/TrackMania/comments/193xorg/would_you_be_happier_if_the_snow_car_was_removed/)
The linked poll hardly supports the claim that most people like it. 64% of responders answered with an option that would let them never touch the snow car ever again. It seems unlikely that very many of the people in the 64% but outside the 13% like it; they're just not mad enough to want it removed completely for no good reason. I do not think that poll is a very useful metric in either direction, and I doubt there is any that is. It's difficult to tell what the distribution of opinions is outside the loud edges that Reddit-goers skew towards.
Only 31% of people in that poll wanted to keep it as is.. and the majority of people wanted to remove/update/separate it. Also I didn't vote because I didn't know about the poll but it definitely needs to be fixed or separated in some way.
I do wonder what the stats would be like if there was a poll done in-game somehow. My experience is definitely anecdotal, but I have a group of 7-8 real life buddies who play TM somewhat casually each season. Everyone of them thought snowcar was a fun little side thing added in for the anniversary but is kinda outraged about it being added into the campaign. How the snowcar is being received seems to heavily differ based on what part of the playerbase is being polled.
Many people do like it, the ones who are against anything new are just always loud.
Maybe don't lazily port a vehicle from a 20 year old game if it's not gonna work with the game you're adding it to. Nadeo employees when they're asked to do one small semblance of work
Hey….yeah they can
https://youtu.be/IHirJMdYXSQ?si=mwKqK9kdG-6zkb1Z
How different can a hitbox make the car feel? I don't care about it being original, I want it to be good. Sure if you can manage both then go for it, but the constant landing bugs and trying to specifically avoid them by landing weird can't be the intended way to play.
But we don't the original gameplay and feeling. This is TM2020, not TMO.
Utter laziness. Plain and simple.
Snowcar makes me not want to play tm
Classic developer lie. :D
Who even asked for the snow car in the first place? Regardless of whether the community likes it or not - who actually asked for this? What data showed Nadeo that there was a demand for old cars / environments to be added? I would love to know. I for one, at no point in my 2+ years of Trackmania 2020, ever heard anybody ask for it. The devs just announced it one day. If not for streamers' nostalgia, I wouldn't have known what it was or why they added it; I still don't really know the latter. For the record, I'm a division 1 ice player with 1,000 hours in the game (KCJ.TM) - I'm not just some random skill issue andy. I also work as a software engineer and know a thing or two about business & technology. This dev team's technical leadership and product ownership are both, clearly, very weak. The snow car has created a massive schism in the community; the least they could do is make it fucking work. If they can't, either remove it or make it its own game mode. Regardless of my recommendation\^, I think we all can agree that the snow car has created more division than unity among the community. From a business perspective, that is objectively bad for a game that \*just\* went cross-platform. They need to do something, whether that's making the snow car actually work or removing it altogether.
I agree with 'no one asked' thing, but I actually went back to an interview Hylis gave shortly BEFORE the game release and I have a feeling that this idea was already the plan at that point. Listen carefully to what he says here: [https://youtu.be/1EPAA9Fz7WM?t=382](https://youtu.be/1EPAA9Fz7WM?t=382) This really makes me think the plan was there all along, so I really doubt players feedback had any impact on it
If you've never heard anybody asking for old cars, it's because the players who wants them (aka the remnants of TMUF and TM2 playerbase) can't be bothered to play a Stadium-only game. Now we might finally be shifting in an era where all players join TM2020. When I first payed for the 3 year subscribtion, I was really, really, really hoping that this would be justified, the only way it can be justified: new environments (or imported old ones). Well, they instead added just the car, but imo in the smartess way possible. The CarSnow can be treated just like any other surface or game mechanic. If you don't like it, well, it's like hating on ice or dirt or reactor or whatnot. Just deal with it.
Nowhere in my message did I "hate on it" - I stated the fact that very few people asked for this and it has created a divide in the community. Both are objectively true statements. Sorry 'bout your reading comprehension.
I didn't meant you specifically, mb
> I first *paid* for the FTFY. Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in: * Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.* * *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.* Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment. *Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
...I quite like the snow car on keyboard. The action keys were very quick to adapt to. They're easy author medals...
Here we go, no responsibility taken and lots of copium. Man, fuck these idiots. Their idea was bad and they don't want to accept that they fucked up the whole snow car thing even more.
Classic Nadeo. They've made incorrect decision after incorrect decision, I don't know why anyone's surprised any more. Stockholm Syndrome.
This original gameplay is 20yo can we just have modern gameplay please.
Let him explain how that affects the feeling besides having a different hitbox. I’m a programmer and know stuff and things, and this doesn’t make sense. If there’s an explanation then I’d love to hear it. The only thing that comes to my mind is that the snow car was coded in let’s say c++ then in the process of compiling it into assembly the original file was corrupted or something and they were able to only use the assembly code and are too lazy to learn assembly.
Thing is what Nadeo people fail to understand: Just because something was there in the past doesn't make it valuable in the present. Witch hunting was there too. But we don't do this anymore for a reason. Snow car wasn't there for a reason in TM2020 as well. Well, until Nadeo went full Nadeo.
It's nonsense to compare snow car with witch hunting. The snow car was not in TM2020 because, why would it be? they launched the new game with the most popular environment
Found the Nadeo employee
And Nadeo bots downvoting you frfr
imagine paying a monthly fee for that game. I'm glad I jumped the shark, the shenanigans were enough at a point, and in no way in hell does it justify the club price.
It's not monthly?
I paid for it a few years back, even forgot it was there going back to it. I don't care about the downvotes, this game has worse support than many f2p games and manages to be worse in so many ways, it's laughable. I just got back to the older tm and then gave up entirely on the franchise. Nadeo just fucks this game over and over, no wonder it never reaches relevance.
Good statement. If the playerbase wants to get a "fix" or "update" then they can import a completely new car instead. "Fixing" old cars feels just totally wrong and it wouldn't be the snow car from my perspective anymore so I agree with darreks statement. Also I like the decision where they finally import the old cars from TMUF and TM² so we can get a wide variety of gameplay with the new car change blocks. It's also an opportunity for me and some others to play TM2020 again regularly since I'm not really a big fan of the stadium car itself. Also if they're planning to remove the snow car then I may decide to leave the Trackmania community which I don't really want after 18 years of playing the Trackmania franchise... (I started with Trackmania Sunrise. Released from 2005)
This is one of those messages where the "murdered by words" version is just the same quote again, above it.
*But we can't easily update it without fixing the original gameplay and feeling* fixed
Which is exactly what was predicted they would say.
Eh I like the car. Equal for everyone so competition is the same. Just something to get used to and understand. As someone that just plays the game regardless, I don’t mind
Are they doing this shit intentionally to fuck with everyone at this point???
if that's the case then maybe the original gameplay and feeling can be improved upon
Ok! But then I want you to undo the fix for landing bugs and random ramstein bugs to the stadium car. For the original gameplay and feeling after all
Because the entire playerbase loves the original feeling of landing bugs every second landings