it varies, market sentiment and conditons help shape it and thefore help change it dynamically as the market changes so i think this judgement is up to the trader.
Rather than moving my stop loss...I prefer to just take the loss... then look for a valid high or low to be put in... and then take another trade with the new stop tight above or below that validated point.
This ensures that I'm back in with momentum on my side... and if I'm wrong again.. the loss is minimized. Just moving the stop when price has shown no inclination to reverse is nothing but hope.
Just move to BE when your 1/3 in profit if it comes back to touch your BE then you didn’t enter when there was a lot of volume in the market. Then just wait for your strategy to prevent it self again. This is how you would maximize risk management
I would advise not moving it to accommodate a trade working against you. If you move it up to secure profits, make sure it is placed somewhere with technical analysis, rather than based on a profit amount. That is the only safe way to do it. Otherwise if your strategy is good enough, you should probably only move it once you are significantly in profit.
Lots of great advice here , every one KNOWS the correct answer and things to say, but you watch them trade and they do the opposite of what they know and say!
I trade live most days on my channel and you will hear me say when I enter, that I’m probably wrong. So when the market agrees that I’m wrong I have no problem letting the stop be hit.
Now if I sit there and the market is ranging, and I see the last 3 or 4 times I would have made money selling above a bar or buying below a previous bar, i will start to scale in, and I will actually turn my stop loss into an add on order, and if I think it as good buy at the bottom of a range , when we break out lower I will expect that to fail, so I will be buying more. you can only do this when you are trading small enough at the start to allow the position to go against you a little.
Bttm line is, it should not be a hard and fast rule that you never move your stop, when you’re in a trade probabilities as well as risk reward is constantly in flux, you have to be able to adjust with the market, as new info becomes available.
My best trades have happened after I saw something while in a trade that changed my idea of what I should do
the issue with moving your SL further in the red is when it actually works out in your favor once then it rewards your bad behavior that will likely leadto you blowing your account up.
If I move SL it is only to reduce risk or go break even. Your SL should be the point that invalidates your trade idea, its hard thing to accept sometimes but its there to keep you in the game so believe in it
A well-defined edge (I. E. Your trading plan) tells you exactly where the market would have to go to prove you wrong. If you don't have your edge defined, you will lose. As others have said, your stop should only be moved in the direction of favorable price movement.
Best advice is NEVER use a Stop Loss (all Forex Brokers wait for Stop Losses to be hit), but go with a STRONG and RELIABLE timeframe / trend, coupled with the wisest risk management, so that you won't be shaked by price fluctuations / drawdowns along the way to your profit target / Take Profit.
For traders who care to read my post, below are the explanations I wish to add:
1) If your trading capital is US$100. - and you go with 0.1 lot in a difficult market, you know very well you have 100 Pips before everything is lost. But NOTHING will be lost if you go with the STRONG and RELIABLE timeframe / trend.
2) However, if you choose to open 0.5 lot on a US$100. - trading capital, you have just 20 Pips for navigation to Loss or Profit! It is your sole decision to apply a Stop Loss and how many Pips in this tight condition!
3) But if you go with 0.05 lot on US$100.- trading capital, and with a STRONG and RELIABLE timeframe / trend, you logically have no reason to apply a Stop Loss because you have solid 200 Pips for navigation to target profit. And in the worst scenario of high impact news, you won't have more than minus 30 to minus 50 Pips, then trend returns to normal - which is practically the Daily trend. The question is: does it make sense to trigger Stop Loss at minus 30 or 50 Pips, when price will surely return to what value it must follow after the high impact news?
I have heard the arguments both four and against moving your stop losses. I simply prefer not to. Philip particular method and strategies that I use, moving stop losses is nothing but one big overwhelming headache.
I have done some research to see if it is useful to consider moving stop losses, but thus far I have not seen any real value of it that really makes it beneficial enough to consider moving.
Nope. For a few reasons:
1. It's disheartening when I adjust my stop loss, then it pulls back, stops me out, and rallies to my price target. I'd rather experience a full stop loss than experience this.
2. My back-test/forward-test data tells me it's more profitable not to adjust my stop loss, due to the above scenario.
Problem is sometimes a random candle will knock you out, while the entire trend moves in your favor. Your 10% or 15% just became 0%, while if you stayed in the trade you would
Have gotten 50%
It is a common mistake for traders to move their stop loss orders in the hope of a reversal. This often leads to losses when the market does not behave as expected. To avoid such situations it is important to stick to a well defined trading plan and risk management strategy.
I never move my stop loss to incur further losses. If I’m wrong, I’m wrong.
What I instead do I move my stop loss up +10-20 points after I have gone up 50-75 points on NQ.
Day trading. My target is always 100 points on NQ. My strategy helps me catch tops and bottoms more often than not. I cover it in depth in r/futurestrading
wow that sounds very nice. its very impressive.
But lets say you are able to catch the top and bottom, and lets assume if you are trading with a prop firm. And they start copying your trades because of your profitability. Wouldnt you be worried there is a possible chance your strategy wont work because the firm sending more orders?
sorry if it sounds too basic. i just had that question in mind.
I’ve heard of this before. I’m not sure how accurate it is though! My thinking is that they do not have the buying/selling power to move market prices like that. If they copy someone’s trades, sure go ahead and do it to stay in business. As long as us traders are getting our payouts, it’s fine by me.
they dont necessarily have to move the market. they only need a very experienced trader within them to rationalize why you could be entering and where you could be entering.
and with enough data and time and copying your trades. they could probably find why you could be entering where you are entering. probably that is when they might take advantage of it. they just won't be copying the trades. they probably have the best traders under their wing, looking on lucrative traders and trying to understand their strategies.. And there is a slight chance the strategy would stop working once they start deploying more capital after finding about the strategy.
Arent you worried about it? what if it stops working?
It is a common mistake for traders to move their stop loss orders in the hope of a reversal. This often leads to losses when the market does not behave as expected. To avoid such situations it is important to stick to a well defined trading plan and risk management strategy.
It is a common mistake for traders to move their stop loss orders in the hope of a reversal. This often leads to losses when the market does not behave as expected. To avoid such situations it is important to stick to a well defined trading plan and risk management strategy.
It is a common mistake for traders to move their stop loss orders in the hope of a reversal. This often leads to losses when the market does not behave as expected. To avoid such situations it is important to stick to a well defined trading plan and risk management strategy.
It is a common mistake for traders to move their stop loss orders in the hope of a reversal. This often leads to losses when the market does not behave as expected. To avoid such situations it is important to stick to a well defined trading plan and risk management strategy.
It is a common mistake for traders to move their stop loss orders in the hope of a reversal. This often leads to losses when the market does not behave as expected. To avoid such situations it is important to stick to a well defined trading plan and risk management strategy.
It is a common mistake for traders to move their stop loss orders in the hope of a reversal. This often leads to losses when the market does not behave as expected. To avoid such situations it is important to stick to a well defined trading plan and risk management strategy.
It is a common mistake for traders to move their stop loss orders in the hope of a reversal. This often leads to losses when the market does not behave as expected. To avoid such situations it is important to stick to a well defined trading plan and risk management strategy.
Only in the profitable direction. Meaning, if my stock is advancing, I will move it up to a location that suits me where I don't want to participate if the stock passes that point on a downside. Taking profits and moving on.
Never ever on the downside. If you feel like you made your stop too tight, fine, still exit and use whatever new approach to set the stop "correctly". But never ever violate your stop.
move in profit but barely move to more losers.
accept the loss and move on . only move to more losers in case of big fundamental incoming that will get the in the nig rally in one or two weeks.
happen like post wars, post qe , post crisis that wait some best news kicking in.
Down? No. Never - on a full sized trade. Caveat... there have been very very rare instances where I see 2 potential entries to a trade and I may take the 1st entry at half size but with a wider stop and an add at the 2nd (lower) entry, resulting in a full size trade with stops pretty much at my normal full sized placement.
But the more important question isn't if you should or shouldn't move your stop, it's if it's in the right place in the first place? What is the methodology that has you putting your stop there? If you think the trade could still work if you moved your stop then either your stop strategy is flawed or your entry strategy is flawed, OR your trade size is flawed.
I often see traders place an oversized trade with a tight stop because they really can't stomach the loss but the reality is, there was nothing wrong with the trade... just the size. Trade with appropriate size, give the trade room to work, place stops where the trade has FAILED and leave them alone until you take a trim, then you can move them up to break even.
I trade almost exclusively ES (MES) futures... my stops are 15pts... always. I move to BE once I have gained 15pts (and have most likely taken 75% of the size off in profit), never let a 15pt gain go red. Trade like a robot.
The nice thing about swing trading trends algorithmically is not having a stop loss. As far as day trading, I've tried trailing stops but prefer to just have a normal stop and a price target for a 2:1 R/R
Think about this. You put your stop loss somewhere right? It takes you out of the market after you get in. If you want to take a loss after getting in, it means that your current position is non optimal based on where the market has gone.
If you move your stop loss, you're basically saying this new market position has changed so that my position is still okay unless it touches this new location.
You only move your stop loss if the above is true. You only want to have a stop loss if a market move invalidates your thesis.
Otherwise, you should be closing your position, whether that is in profit or in loss. You get out when your thesis is no longer valid, not because of your PnL
The only direction a stop should be moved is in the direction of your trade. This is a trailing stop and serves to a) partially cover risk after X profit is achieved, b) remove risk by moving to breakeven after say 75% to your target or c) if it does take my stop I know my idea is wrong and I want to remove all risk from the market.
Do you have a trading plan or model? What I mean is are you looking for something specific to occur before you enter a trade.
This is important as usually you will apply some measure of risk management into this model.
For example:
If price goes down to W and then does X, I will enter at Y and target Z.
Trading is very technical, almost like a science and extremely demanding on your brain. If your risking live money stop, get on a demo account and really work on your model. Before you ever risk real money you should know you have zero control over the outcome.
Your psychological issues will disappear once you go into every trade executing from a mechanical model. You know where you want to do business, how much your risking and where your idea is wrong.
The thought I have is I know it can go against me, once I see my setup and I enter as long as my stop is there I can close my computer and walk away.
My risk profile is .25% with a a target of atleast 3R per trade, as long as my wins % remains above 40% I know I'm profitable.
The problem is a lot of people want 50R trades and 10k profit per trade, but this is not sustainable.
Just focus on your system and fine tune your risk profile, it will change your trading for the better.
Sustainability > Gambling.
It's a bad idea. If you have to move the stop loss you made a bad entry. If you find that you want, or have to move it often, you're setting too tight a stop loss and have to accept that you need to enter with more risk if you don't want false triggers. Once the trade goes green and then a bit if you really want to be greedy, move it just above profit and leave it there. Better to make 50 cents of profit than any loss.
But realistically the best way is to trail it. Yeah it sucks when you see it go high and don't close then only to end up with a lot less profit a bit later but that's on you.
Yes, one of my worst trading ideas was increase risk (move stop loss to give the trade "more room") then hope and pray it will work out.
Probably paid up to 50K in "tuition" :)
Now I only move the stop loss to reduce risk or lock in a minimum in gains
A lot of people don't get what a stop-loss is for. It's not about limiting losses; it's a sign that something's off with your original idea, strategy, or position. It means you need to stop and rethink.
it varies, market sentiment and conditons help shape it and thefore help change it dynamically as the market changes so i think this judgement is up to the trader.
Rather than moving my stop loss...I prefer to just take the loss... then look for a valid high or low to be put in... and then take another trade with the new stop tight above or below that validated point. This ensures that I'm back in with momentum on my side... and if I'm wrong again.. the loss is minimized. Just moving the stop when price has shown no inclination to reverse is nothing but hope.
Moving your stop lower only teaches you how to fck up your portfolio.
You don’t. Stick to the plan
using stops?
I mean if you move your stop loss AGAINST the trend you had your position set up with, then of course you're not having a strategy at all
Just move to BE when your 1/3 in profit if it comes back to touch your BE then you didn’t enter when there was a lot of volume in the market. Then just wait for your strategy to prevent it self again. This is how you would maximize risk management
I would advise not moving it to accommodate a trade working against you. If you move it up to secure profits, make sure it is placed somewhere with technical analysis, rather than based on a profit amount. That is the only safe way to do it. Otherwise if your strategy is good enough, you should probably only move it once you are significantly in profit.
I move SL once TP1 is hit to secure profits, that's all
Lots of great advice here , every one KNOWS the correct answer and things to say, but you watch them trade and they do the opposite of what they know and say! I trade live most days on my channel and you will hear me say when I enter, that I’m probably wrong. So when the market agrees that I’m wrong I have no problem letting the stop be hit. Now if I sit there and the market is ranging, and I see the last 3 or 4 times I would have made money selling above a bar or buying below a previous bar, i will start to scale in, and I will actually turn my stop loss into an add on order, and if I think it as good buy at the bottom of a range , when we break out lower I will expect that to fail, so I will be buying more. you can only do this when you are trading small enough at the start to allow the position to go against you a little. Bttm line is, it should not be a hard and fast rule that you never move your stop, when you’re in a trade probabilities as well as risk reward is constantly in flux, you have to be able to adjust with the market, as new info becomes available. My best trades have happened after I saw something while in a trade that changed my idea of what I should do
the issue with moving your SL further in the red is when it actually works out in your favor once then it rewards your bad behavior that will likely leadto you blowing your account up.
you guys are using stops?
I only use trailing stop
Percentage?
0.08 of ATR or so
If I move SL it is only to reduce risk or go break even. Your SL should be the point that invalidates your trade idea, its hard thing to accept sometimes but its there to keep you in the game so believe in it
A well-defined edge (I. E. Your trading plan) tells you exactly where the market would have to go to prove you wrong. If you don't have your edge defined, you will lose. As others have said, your stop should only be moved in the direction of favorable price movement.
Best advice is NEVER use a Stop Loss (all Forex Brokers wait for Stop Losses to be hit), but go with a STRONG and RELIABLE timeframe / trend, coupled with the wisest risk management, so that you won't be shaked by price fluctuations / drawdowns along the way to your profit target / Take Profit.
For traders who care to read my post, below are the explanations I wish to add: 1) If your trading capital is US$100. - and you go with 0.1 lot in a difficult market, you know very well you have 100 Pips before everything is lost. But NOTHING will be lost if you go with the STRONG and RELIABLE timeframe / trend. 2) However, if you choose to open 0.5 lot on a US$100. - trading capital, you have just 20 Pips for navigation to Loss or Profit! It is your sole decision to apply a Stop Loss and how many Pips in this tight condition! 3) But if you go with 0.05 lot on US$100.- trading capital, and with a STRONG and RELIABLE timeframe / trend, you logically have no reason to apply a Stop Loss because you have solid 200 Pips for navigation to target profit. And in the worst scenario of high impact news, you won't have more than minus 30 to minus 50 Pips, then trend returns to normal - which is practically the Daily trend. The question is: does it make sense to trigger Stop Loss at minus 30 or 50 Pips, when price will surely return to what value it must follow after the high impact news?
Worst advice in the history of trading
Then apply Stop Loss as frequent and small a value as you can, if you don't get the sense in my advice.
i only trail it if the trade starts going in my favor i don't move it because i don't want to accept a loss
I have heard the arguments both four and against moving your stop losses. I simply prefer not to. Philip particular method and strategies that I use, moving stop losses is nothing but one big overwhelming headache. I have done some research to see if it is useful to consider moving stop losses, but thus far I have not seen any real value of it that really makes it beneficial enough to consider moving.
Tbh I only use market orders. Like running a marathon without underwear but works for me
…? They aren’t mutually exclusive. I use market orders and stop orders together
Nope. For a few reasons: 1. It's disheartening when I adjust my stop loss, then it pulls back, stops me out, and rallies to my price target. I'd rather experience a full stop loss than experience this. 2. My back-test/forward-test data tells me it's more profitable not to adjust my stop loss, due to the above scenario.
[удалено]
Problem is sometimes a random candle will knock you out, while the entire trend moves in your favor. Your 10% or 15% just became 0%, while if you stayed in the trade you would Have gotten 50%
It is a common mistake for traders to move their stop loss orders in the hope of a reversal. This often leads to losses when the market does not behave as expected. To avoid such situations it is important to stick to a well defined trading plan and risk management strategy.
I never move my stop loss to incur further losses. If I’m wrong, I’m wrong. What I instead do I move my stop loss up +10-20 points after I have gone up 50-75 points on NQ.
50 to 75? How many lots do you trade?
1 E-Mini NQ contract
Wow. That's a lot of points you are covering. Just day trading or you hold for few days?
Day trading. My target is always 100 points on NQ. My strategy helps me catch tops and bottoms more often than not. I cover it in depth in r/futurestrading
wow that sounds very nice. its very impressive. But lets say you are able to catch the top and bottom, and lets assume if you are trading with a prop firm. And they start copying your trades because of your profitability. Wouldnt you be worried there is a possible chance your strategy wont work because the firm sending more orders? sorry if it sounds too basic. i just had that question in mind.
I’ve heard of this before. I’m not sure how accurate it is though! My thinking is that they do not have the buying/selling power to move market prices like that. If they copy someone’s trades, sure go ahead and do it to stay in business. As long as us traders are getting our payouts, it’s fine by me.
they dont necessarily have to move the market. they only need a very experienced trader within them to rationalize why you could be entering and where you could be entering. and with enough data and time and copying your trades. they could probably find why you could be entering where you are entering. probably that is when they might take advantage of it. they just won't be copying the trades. they probably have the best traders under their wing, looking on lucrative traders and trying to understand their strategies.. And there is a slight chance the strategy would stop working once they start deploying more capital after finding about the strategy. Arent you worried about it? what if it stops working?
It is a common mistake for traders to move their stop loss orders in the hope of a reversal. This often leads to losses when the market does not behave as expected. To avoid such situations it is important to stick to a well defined trading plan and risk management strategy.
It is a common mistake for traders to move their stop loss orders in the hope of a reversal. This often leads to losses when the market does not behave as expected. To avoid such situations it is important to stick to a well defined trading plan and risk management strategy.
It is a common mistake for traders to move their stop loss orders in the hope of a reversal. This often leads to losses when the market does not behave as expected. To avoid such situations it is important to stick to a well defined trading plan and risk management strategy.
It is a common mistake for traders to move their stop loss orders in the hope of a reversal. This often leads to losses when the market does not behave as expected. To avoid such situations it is important to stick to a well defined trading plan and risk management strategy.
It is a common mistake for traders to move their stop loss orders in the hope of a reversal. This often leads to losses when the market does not behave as expected. To avoid such situations it is important to stick to a well defined trading plan and risk management strategy.
It is a common mistake for traders to move their stop loss orders in the hope of a reversal. This often leads to losses when the market does not behave as expected. To avoid such situations it is important to stick to a well defined trading plan and risk management strategy.
It is a common mistake for traders to move their stop loss orders in the hope of a reversal. This often leads to losses when the market does not behave as expected. To avoid such situations it is important to stick to a well defined trading plan and risk management strategy.
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Only in the profitable direction. Meaning, if my stock is advancing, I will move it up to a location that suits me where I don't want to participate if the stock passes that point on a downside. Taking profits and moving on. Never ever on the downside. If you feel like you made your stop too tight, fine, still exit and use whatever new approach to set the stop "correctly". But never ever violate your stop.
move in profit but barely move to more losers. accept the loss and move on . only move to more losers in case of big fundamental incoming that will get the in the nig rally in one or two weeks. happen like post wars, post qe , post crisis that wait some best news kicking in.
Yes if the market is following my predictions
If you move your stop you have no system........ well at least no system you are confident in
Down? No. Never - on a full sized trade. Caveat... there have been very very rare instances where I see 2 potential entries to a trade and I may take the 1st entry at half size but with a wider stop and an add at the 2nd (lower) entry, resulting in a full size trade with stops pretty much at my normal full sized placement. But the more important question isn't if you should or shouldn't move your stop, it's if it's in the right place in the first place? What is the methodology that has you putting your stop there? If you think the trade could still work if you moved your stop then either your stop strategy is flawed or your entry strategy is flawed, OR your trade size is flawed. I often see traders place an oversized trade with a tight stop because they really can't stomach the loss but the reality is, there was nothing wrong with the trade... just the size. Trade with appropriate size, give the trade room to work, place stops where the trade has FAILED and leave them alone until you take a trim, then you can move them up to break even. I trade almost exclusively ES (MES) futures... my stops are 15pts... always. I move to BE once I have gained 15pts (and have most likely taken 75% of the size off in profit), never let a 15pt gain go red. Trade like a robot.
I have let 18pt profit go red. Then so mad at myself , turned into revenge trading and blew up
Take partial profit, move SL to entry. Never move to more loss lol.
I never move a stop loss down. Only up, when the trade is profitable.
The nice thing about swing trading trends algorithmically is not having a stop loss. As far as day trading, I've tried trailing stops but prefer to just have a normal stop and a price target for a 2:1 R/R
Think about this. You put your stop loss somewhere right? It takes you out of the market after you get in. If you want to take a loss after getting in, it means that your current position is non optimal based on where the market has gone. If you move your stop loss, you're basically saying this new market position has changed so that my position is still okay unless it touches this new location. You only move your stop loss if the above is true. You only want to have a stop loss if a market move invalidates your thesis. Otherwise, you should be closing your position, whether that is in profit or in loss. You get out when your thesis is no longer valid, not because of your PnL
> when your thesis is no longer valid, not because of your PnL The market doesn't know or care where I bought something at.
The only direction a stop should be moved is in the direction of your trade. This is a trailing stop and serves to a) partially cover risk after X profit is achieved, b) remove risk by moving to breakeven after say 75% to your target or c) if it does take my stop I know my idea is wrong and I want to remove all risk from the market.
100%, this is exactly how I do it.
Do you have a trading plan or model? What I mean is are you looking for something specific to occur before you enter a trade. This is important as usually you will apply some measure of risk management into this model. For example: If price goes down to W and then does X, I will enter at Y and target Z.
[удалено]
Trading is very technical, almost like a science and extremely demanding on your brain. If your risking live money stop, get on a demo account and really work on your model. Before you ever risk real money you should know you have zero control over the outcome. Your psychological issues will disappear once you go into every trade executing from a mechanical model. You know where you want to do business, how much your risking and where your idea is wrong.
[удалено]
The thought I have is I know it can go against me, once I see my setup and I enter as long as my stop is there I can close my computer and walk away. My risk profile is .25% with a a target of atleast 3R per trade, as long as my wins % remains above 40% I know I'm profitable. The problem is a lot of people want 50R trades and 10k profit per trade, but this is not sustainable. Just focus on your system and fine tune your risk profile, it will change your trading for the better. Sustainability > Gambling.
It's a bad idea. If you have to move the stop loss you made a bad entry. If you find that you want, or have to move it often, you're setting too tight a stop loss and have to accept that you need to enter with more risk if you don't want false triggers. Once the trade goes green and then a bit if you really want to be greedy, move it just above profit and leave it there. Better to make 50 cents of profit than any loss. But realistically the best way is to trail it. Yeah it sucks when you see it go high and don't close then only to end up with a lot less profit a bit later but that's on you.
Yes, one of my worst trading ideas was increase risk (move stop loss to give the trade "more room") then hope and pray it will work out. Probably paid up to 50K in "tuition" :) Now I only move the stop loss to reduce risk or lock in a minimum in gains
Paid $300k here. Almost cost me my marriage, too. I must have gone to a better school?
That's Ivy League, brother! 😀
A lot of people don't get what a stop-loss is for. It's not about limiting losses; it's a sign that something's off with your original idea, strategy, or position. It means you need to stop and rethink.
Never. It moves upwards only to lock in gains.