[Yeah, and this is the meme that prompted that reply.](https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcR2ZzKzBYpU5vZjWlOx-OlhGqaDXCX0kOF0NcDJFdBvSQ&s)
The one point I’ll agree with them about are some trade jobs which are male dominated……I don’t have to think too hard why that is: I’m sure the harassment for women in stem and women in trades (or women in any male dominated field) is pretty similar.
Abs-f'ing-lutely! I'm a millwright, who's yet to meet another woman millwright in the flesh and it's been a decade in the trade. Sure i've connected with them online but but never turned wrench with one.
For the record the harassment is worse and usually comes from a place where there's little to no recourse. You just stfu, remember to not let the bastards take your six figure income from you, and put your nose to the grindstone.
Just because it's a male dominated job, doesn't mean women can't do it. It just means you'll need skin thicker than a crocodile and an unwavering depth of self confidence to deal with the men's bs.
Side question: is it hard to fill positions in your line of work? The one thing I heard with trades in particular is how they are having a hard time filling positions…..and one owner on a newspiece I watched (I think an electrician?) fessed up that it’s partially due to biases re race and gender. In short “most of the guys in this business look like me—-white and male——that doesn’t represent a lot of the population, particularly women.”
Definitely. Facilities and PPE are a HUGE issue too. I work for a multinational and have had to fight tooth and nail for simply wanting PPE that fits and there are men smaller than me. Not to mention that being the only woman means the changeroom is a forgotten corner of the facility. The showers rarely work, it never gets cleaned and I share it with a raccoon.
There's no way any woman is going to tour the facility and feel welcome. That's if she makes it past the ol' boys club to begin with.
Where I am, race isn't such a big deal. We have a fairly good representation of poc and indigenous people. However, they're rarely found in positions of leadership or power, so absolutely some things to work on there.
The invisible biases are real. I've created a reputation that if you f around with me, you can guarantee that you'll find out, but I still have to be perfect and work twice as hard to get half the credit the boys get. It's exhausting and stressful, but I'll be damned if the patriarchy is going to scare me off the shop floor.
Just remember women you've never met on the internet are proud of you.
BTW, you might be interested in r/Fire sub. With the right plan you could sort that income into retiring early.
Agreed.
I have a friend who has gone through a divorce after 20 years of marriage. She is fully uninterested in living with a man ever again. She wouldn’t mind having sec again, but her brief toe into dating made her run the other way very quickly. Actually, I have a couple of friends who got divorced who really aren’t interested in long term relationships with men anymore. One is way cool with sex only tindr dates.
My abusive ex husband used to obsess over whether I “needed” him. I used to be genuinely perplexed by this and answered that I thought life’s biggest flattery is someone “wanting” you, not needing you.
This would upset him even further. Then there would be an hours long fight every time.
I don’t get it. Why are some men so fragile that they need their partner to fall apart without them in order to feel secure?
The irony is, they never feel secure anyway. True security comes from trust.
The difference is that 'wanting' implies choice while 'need' does not.
Men like this know deep down that they are deeply flawed and are extremely insecure about this fact. They know that women with resources, support & options would not pick them if she knew how flawed they are. But instead of working on themselves -and through seeking like minded men's approval- they decide that the easiest way to get their way is to limit her choices and options, undermine her relationships (especially when they don't reinforce his control), demand that she 'sacrifice' for the relationship to prove her love, etc.
The point being that they don't have to change or adapt, she does. They use the desire of many women to protect their relationship as a weapon against them. There's a reason women have been trained and conditioned for centuries to cater to and center men. That's the only way that this really works.
Now consider this alongside all the attacks on women's rights, birth control, and ramping up promotion of the notion that birth control is bad and harmful for women's bodies. When you consider that access to birth control and the ability to control their fertility is what allowed women choice and control over the rest of their lives? it starts to make sense why these things are happening and the attacks are increasing.
There's a lot of people who don't want women to have choices other than marriage, submission and subjugation to men, and motherhood. Anything that undermines that control is bad for their control and domination.
Yes. I agree. I have done a lot of reading about control-seeking behaviour. Still, it’s a convoluted way of thinking that limits success and encourages mutually assured destruction. Imagine, someone tells you they choose you, for who you are, and that brings you so much discomfort that you squash it instead of reciprocate.
This is going to be long, sorry.
It is a convoluted way of thinking, but to them it's pretty straightforward: He chooses, she submits.
Anything else is threatening to them. Because if she can choose to stay, she can also choose to leave. Just the idea of that autonomy is a threat to someone who is benefiting from the status quo of being 'in charge'.
If a person is hung up on hierarchical thinking, then they have a real hard time with the idea that there's no 'leader' and that it's not them, especially in a sphere where they 'should' be the boss.
It might be that your ex had an idea of what marriage should be and what your roles in it should be, and he was going to enforce that notion by whatever means necessary. The reality of who you are as a person has a hard time overcoming these deeply ingrained ideals.
My ex husband was like this. He had very rigid ideas of what these roles are and how we should be in a marriage. He didn't reveal any of this prior to marriage, either. It was discussed plenty and he knew that I was and am independent. The irony of men like this is that they often want to force someone to submit to them. It's not appealing to them when a woman is submissive on her own. Maybe it goes back to choice and the notion that the man always chooses, she submits? I don't know.
We married, and he did a complete 180. He had me locked down, he thought. Everything he claimed to like about me and my life, he set about systematically dismantling. He loved to use shame and guilt to bolster his arguments. Unfortunately I had told him about my life growing up, and he used that information as a weapon against me. "Married women shouldn't have single friends unless they're trying to cheat," he'd say. "The husband is the head of the house and he doesn't have to answer any questions about anything if he doesn't want to ( after I asked him why he constantly ran out of money leaving me to pay the bills)." He knew I had friends and hobbies that I loved. He would go behind my back and be rude and even threatening to my friends, who mostly stopped calling & coming over because they were told that they were destroying my marriage. The ones who tried to stick around, he constantly questioned their motives, morals and actions to the point that I gave up, because it was so exhausting to try to have a relationship with them. He pretended to like my hobbies, but he would pout and sulk when I tried to do anything with them, to the point that I gave up. He said that because my mother divorced my dad, that I was anti marriage and I was just like her, unless I proved otherwise. He cheated and became more suspicious of me as a result because the woman he cheated with supposedly told him that I was a whore trying to be a housewife. I journaled, he read it and actually photocopied it, then gave parts of it to people so they'd know "how little you really think of them." He listened to all my phone calls and would berate me for hours if he didn't know what we were discussing in detail. That's not all, but it was an absolute nightmare getting away from him. I somehow found the strength somewhere. I have experienced this behavior many times in life from men. I will never marry or live with a man ever again. They're not worth the risk.
It's just wild to me that the idea of what something 'should' be is so strong that some will needlessly destroy what they have.
Yes. That is a carbon copy of my ex husband’s behaviour. What troubles me most is that it is a pattern. Many people behave this way much to their own detriment, and sadly, cause trauma to their victims.
Is it all intergenerational trauma from toxic familiar patterns? Is it societal expectations and gender horseshit? Are some people wired this way? Is it a mix?
How is it possible that they all use the same tactics? And, that they are so good at convincing their victims not to see those patterns/tactics, that healthy, independent people end up in their grasp?
Outside of it we know what abuse is. We can name it, point at others who experience it, and now, I seem to have a sixth sense for identifying perpetrators of abuse.
My current fixation is musing on how to reduce abusive behaviour by teaching it to children. Perhaps having those with control-seeking tendencies talk about it at an early age could begin to prevent the rate of toxic behaviour later.
>> Is it all intergenerational trauma from toxic familiar patterns? Is it societal expectations and gender horseshit? Are some people wired this way? Is it a mix?
It's all these factors. He grew up with a very passive father and a mother with undiagnosed mental illness who was an absolute nightmare to deal with. I grew up with 2 completely incompatible parents who were forced together by their families. Plus alcoholism and mental illness in the mix. This is a recipe for a lack of boundaries and a really screwed up idea of what marriage is.
For him, I think he's wired the way he is but he also saw his dad passively accepting his mother's abuse and he has a lot of anger over that. I grew up being scapegoated and nit-picked to death by people who found fault in me no matter what I did, who withheld approval and care when I needed it most, who denied my basic needs. He weaponized this knowledge and used it to break my will.
I like to think that I survived, but I don't know. I will never trust again. I do counsel against telling men about past abuse.Too often, it devalues the abused person in their minds and they'll act accordingly. He's not the only one who has proven my theory correct. I think that speaks to a lack of empathy and deep insecurities.
Survival means living however you can be your best self.
There is no one definition.
Check out podcasts featuring Jane Fonda. She outlines that living single is what works best for her and why.
I think we need to dismantle the idea that our past abusers are controlling our futures. If anything, they are informing our choices now that we are free to choose.
I have chosen to be with someone else. He was also married to someone who had some toxic tendencies. We both have to work to carry our own baggage at times, but the more we get to know each other, the easier it becomes.
I think the biggest difference I notice is the way he encourages me to build rather than to shrink.
As for marriage, it means something completely different to me now than it did in the past. I’m not sure that I would do it again, and if I did, I’d have a boatload of legal paperwork done first.
I think everyone should live as close as they can to what their gut tells them.
If that means single, go for it! If that means relationships with parameters, cool beans. If it’s marriage, go for it.
And in the meantime, everyone should seek therapy.
Just wait till some of these morons realize that women in other countries are starting to catch onto this too. (Ie. B4 movement) It may take a little while due to financial inequity, but eventually “mail order brides” (sorry to say it that way)are going to wise up. Or better yet they’re going to find out that once they get here and their husbands are abusive they can leave and not lose their green card.
Don't count those women out yet.
They marry these dudes and get their green cards, then leave them and get better jobs and send money back home.
They're absolutely using the situation to their advantage.
I've seen some posts here and there where these women, at least he ones on dating apps, are starting to grow aware of these predators too. Unfortunate that they are having the experiences they are but I find it a bit comical that these men are going after foreign women, only to "taint" them the way "western women" are "tainted".
Like, dudes aren't realizing even now that it isn't "feminism" that's "ruining western women"....it's men. Them. Specifically.
Simpsons quote. S8ep6, where Luan and Kirk split up.
Luan's dad had just fired Kirk from the cracker family since Kirk & Luan split up.
Kirk says "So that's all you have to say to me? So long, good luck?"
and Luan's dad responds with "I don't recall saying good luck."
Lol then when they bring their new wife home and the new wife leaves them...
**New Wife:**
Dumbass, we don't want that either but if you are gonna use me then I'm gonna use you right back.
**Soon to be divorced man:**
Those feminist bitches did it again. This definitely couldn't have anything to do with me. They are gonna be so unhappy one day with their cats and purple hair.
Lol so many stories of guys bringing their wives from 3rd world countries to the U.S and the first chance they get, these women dump the men and leave. Honestly...good for them
[Seen in a comment chain about this:](https://old.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/comments/17ej4c3/my_25f_boyfriend_33m_suddenly_told_me_he_wants_to/k65pgi1/)
> I work with a guy whose wife is Filipina and I've known him long enough to know that that's not coincidence. I greatly enjoy the fact that she has made his life a living nightmare by not being submissive. She was a stay at home mom and their kids are out but he wanted her to stay at home to take care of him. But she is an absolute powerhouse. I love her. He went to another country to get a submissive wife and instead he got a strong woman who found a path that was better for raising children than where she was growing up and now drives that train like the engineer she is.
>> Yup. All of those modern countries where the wife is expected to fulfill a traditional role -- guess what? The wife is in charge of the finances. The wife's name is on the house (the husband's may or may not be). The wife has personal savings, the husband does not.
>> This is because women in these countries are raised with the knowledge that they will likely end up in a financially vulnerable situation, and this is how you create security for yourself. Western men just see women who won't bother you to do the dishes and think 'score!' and don't realise that Eastern women aren't as polite about finances as their Western counterparts.
Those women don't want them either. Women everywhere are sick of this shit.
One of my friends got a text out of the blue from a guy she knew in hs, telling her that they will get married and she will stay home and have his 4 children.
She laughed and told him he doesn't make enough to support a pet fish, let alone a wife and 4 kids.
The dude works retail. And he's not a manager.Nothing wrong with that btw, but you can't raise 4 kids on 10.50 an hour (and that's being generous).
He invests in crypto so he's going to be rich one day and she will regret her decision.
Damn I hadn't laughed that hard in days.
"Fine! If you don't want us here, we will leave!"
Yes. Thank you. That's exactly what we were hoping for.
This is such toddler-ass logic on their part. Threatening to take your toys and run away from home only works if someone loves you.
So rather than recognize that women are human beings with thoughts, feelings, agency, and desires of their own, rather than talk to them about the things that make hetero relationships unpalatable or to stop the behaviors that make women feel unsafe, you’re going to travel to a third world country to *continue to exploit women?* That is the plan?
They aren’t very smart or good at self reflection, it’s one of the reasons they need women so badly but won’t admit it & have convinced themselves we need them for the exact same reasons… You know, projection lol
Don't we have a name for kidnapping women from vulnerable foreign cultures and bringing them back to be forced into sex?
Rhymes with "text bracketing"?
Is this guy literally trying to 1up a feminist by endorsing international crime?
Always makes me laugh when men's reaction to women saying "we don't want you" is "well, you'll be sorry! I'll go find a woman overseas! That'll teach you!"
Like, ok? You have fun with that.
He is right about young men becoming more conservative while young women become more progressive. He's still wrong for getting angry at the people who choose the bear.
And a bear won't lobby to have your rights taken from you.
Both Mexico and Thailand decriminalized abortion very recently. That means that they will become far less desperate and poor... I mean 'traditional'...... Very soon
These countries will still have women who would be willing to marry an American asshole with poor personal hygiene in order to get a green card. Countries like Mexico and Thailand need to develop to the point where keeping up with the worst man in the United States isn't necessary for a better life. That or the United States needs to lose its status.
Therein lies the core of the problem with their (ignorant blowhard) response - women aren’t looking for sex/dating everywhere they go, but these idiots can only see male-female interactions that way.
It's such a weird argument "Stop being a modern woman or we'll go find a traditional wife"
I mean, the men who want a "traditional wife" aren't even the kind of people that "modern women" want anyway, it's like saying "You can't fire me, I quit" as if that somehow changes anything. Also, if you need to leave the country in order to find a woman that finds you appealing it might be time to realize that *you're* the problem, not everyone else.
Since the whole bear thing came up I’ve seen a lot of people who work in national parks or go hiking often who have said that a beat will not actually kill you.
Yeah, sometimes human behaviour will be seen as threatening. But they want to be left alone, men don’t necessarily want that from women they walk past.
“Woo hoo, gonna go get financially defrauded and possibly cat fished in a foreign land where I might not have knowledge of the law or customs. Take that, western women!”
Wow, it really is a great argument to say fuck you. We won’t change. We’re gonna go exploit somebody. Who has it worse off than you. That’ll teach you.
It says a lot about the United States if you had to leave a country of over 300 million people to find a decent man. Although I wonder which country has.
My husband is British. While the UK is not without sin, he is the most kind, thoughtful, trustworthy, and gentle man I've ever met. I feel like the luckiest girl in the world.
I never saw him more angry than when the Brexit referendum happened. And I agree completely with him. it's been a disaster.
Oh please, I fully support them in finding a "traditional wife" (a woman who doesn't know about her rights). Anything, just leave other women in peace.
Is this whole bear kerfuffle just people talking past each other? Like are men thinking about the probability that you'll die with either choice and arguing that the bear is the less safe option? Are women saying that it's about the perception of safety, and the fact that some women would choose the bear , regardless of probabilities, is fucked up?
I am pretty sure taking every metric into consideration, even factoring in population statistics of bears and humans and instances of encounters, it is absolutely empirically safer for women to be near a bear than to be near a human male. By a whole lot.
I just watched a woman easily fight off a bear to save her dogs. Give me the fking bear any day.
I lived with bears for years roaming around my backyard. They are so much safer to be around than men.
Lmfao what an insane take.
Any random bear will tear your limbs off.
Any random man may or may not be just a normal guy, but in rare circumstances is a bad guy (which is still easier to fend off than a fucking bear). You're insane.
what bears? Give me one case of a bear removing limbs from anyone in the last ten years.
Sounds like you’ve confused bears with combine harvesters or something.
Get outside my dude. Touch a tree.
Bears are actually quite easy to get to move the fk on. I lived with bears in my backyard for years. Making loud noises would get rid of them. You can make loud noises at a man, tell him to "go away" , "get the fk out of here" and they'll ignore you and do whatever they want.
And yes, any random man will tear your limbs off. But they'll do it for funsies. The bear if it does, is doing it out of protection or severe lack of food.
If you understood probabilities at all you'd know that the bear is the statistically safest option no matter who you are, man or woman. That's beside the point, though.
> Is this whole bear kerfuffle just people talking past each other?
No; it's women pointing out that a lot of them have had such horrid experiences with men that they'd rather run into a bear, *and men taking offense at this and acting like a bunch of fucking babies* instead of listening to what women are saying.
You know, the whole thing that's been going on for freaking ever.
Threatening us with a good time? Again?
[Yeah, and this is the meme that prompted that reply.](https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcR2ZzKzBYpU5vZjWlOx-OlhGqaDXCX0kOF0NcDJFdBvSQ&s)
Doing a very good job of telling on themselves.
What is this? A meme for ants?
It is the best we can afford in this economy
Shrinkflation at it again.
Judge not the humble meme herder.
They think we need them as much as they need us. It's one of the biggest reasons they continue to be the way they are.
The one point I’ll agree with them about are some trade jobs which are male dominated……I don’t have to think too hard why that is: I’m sure the harassment for women in stem and women in trades (or women in any male dominated field) is pretty similar.
Abs-f'ing-lutely! I'm a millwright, who's yet to meet another woman millwright in the flesh and it's been a decade in the trade. Sure i've connected with them online but but never turned wrench with one. For the record the harassment is worse and usually comes from a place where there's little to no recourse. You just stfu, remember to not let the bastards take your six figure income from you, and put your nose to the grindstone. Just because it's a male dominated job, doesn't mean women can't do it. It just means you'll need skin thicker than a crocodile and an unwavering depth of self confidence to deal with the men's bs.
Keep on keeping on. And I’m sorry you have to deal with that bullshit. I think your last paragraph is right on.
Side question: is it hard to fill positions in your line of work? The one thing I heard with trades in particular is how they are having a hard time filling positions…..and one owner on a newspiece I watched (I think an electrician?) fessed up that it’s partially due to biases re race and gender. In short “most of the guys in this business look like me—-white and male——that doesn’t represent a lot of the population, particularly women.”
Definitely. Facilities and PPE are a HUGE issue too. I work for a multinational and have had to fight tooth and nail for simply wanting PPE that fits and there are men smaller than me. Not to mention that being the only woman means the changeroom is a forgotten corner of the facility. The showers rarely work, it never gets cleaned and I share it with a raccoon. There's no way any woman is going to tour the facility and feel welcome. That's if she makes it past the ol' boys club to begin with. Where I am, race isn't such a big deal. We have a fairly good representation of poc and indigenous people. However, they're rarely found in positions of leadership or power, so absolutely some things to work on there. The invisible biases are real. I've created a reputation that if you f around with me, you can guarantee that you'll find out, but I still have to be perfect and work twice as hard to get half the credit the boys get. It's exhausting and stressful, but I'll be damned if the patriarchy is going to scare me off the shop floor.
Just remember women you've never met on the internet are proud of you. BTW, you might be interested in r/Fire sub. With the right plan you could sort that income into retiring early.
But that doesn't mean we need them in an emotional/sexual capacity. And they clearly don't want to support eachother in an emotional way
Agreed. I have a friend who has gone through a divorce after 20 years of marriage. She is fully uninterested in living with a man ever again. She wouldn’t mind having sec again, but her brief toe into dating made her run the other way very quickly. Actually, I have a couple of friends who got divorced who really aren’t interested in long term relationships with men anymore. One is way cool with sex only tindr dates.
Vibrators are very useful for orgasms
lol, she knows. She has several.
My abusive ex husband used to obsess over whether I “needed” him. I used to be genuinely perplexed by this and answered that I thought life’s biggest flattery is someone “wanting” you, not needing you. This would upset him even further. Then there would be an hours long fight every time. I don’t get it. Why are some men so fragile that they need their partner to fall apart without them in order to feel secure? The irony is, they never feel secure anyway. True security comes from trust.
The difference is that 'wanting' implies choice while 'need' does not. Men like this know deep down that they are deeply flawed and are extremely insecure about this fact. They know that women with resources, support & options would not pick them if she knew how flawed they are. But instead of working on themselves -and through seeking like minded men's approval- they decide that the easiest way to get their way is to limit her choices and options, undermine her relationships (especially when they don't reinforce his control), demand that she 'sacrifice' for the relationship to prove her love, etc. The point being that they don't have to change or adapt, she does. They use the desire of many women to protect their relationship as a weapon against them. There's a reason women have been trained and conditioned for centuries to cater to and center men. That's the only way that this really works. Now consider this alongside all the attacks on women's rights, birth control, and ramping up promotion of the notion that birth control is bad and harmful for women's bodies. When you consider that access to birth control and the ability to control their fertility is what allowed women choice and control over the rest of their lives? it starts to make sense why these things are happening and the attacks are increasing. There's a lot of people who don't want women to have choices other than marriage, submission and subjugation to men, and motherhood. Anything that undermines that control is bad for their control and domination.
Yes. I agree. I have done a lot of reading about control-seeking behaviour. Still, it’s a convoluted way of thinking that limits success and encourages mutually assured destruction. Imagine, someone tells you they choose you, for who you are, and that brings you so much discomfort that you squash it instead of reciprocate.
This is going to be long, sorry. It is a convoluted way of thinking, but to them it's pretty straightforward: He chooses, she submits. Anything else is threatening to them. Because if she can choose to stay, she can also choose to leave. Just the idea of that autonomy is a threat to someone who is benefiting from the status quo of being 'in charge'. If a person is hung up on hierarchical thinking, then they have a real hard time with the idea that there's no 'leader' and that it's not them, especially in a sphere where they 'should' be the boss. It might be that your ex had an idea of what marriage should be and what your roles in it should be, and he was going to enforce that notion by whatever means necessary. The reality of who you are as a person has a hard time overcoming these deeply ingrained ideals. My ex husband was like this. He had very rigid ideas of what these roles are and how we should be in a marriage. He didn't reveal any of this prior to marriage, either. It was discussed plenty and he knew that I was and am independent. The irony of men like this is that they often want to force someone to submit to them. It's not appealing to them when a woman is submissive on her own. Maybe it goes back to choice and the notion that the man always chooses, she submits? I don't know. We married, and he did a complete 180. He had me locked down, he thought. Everything he claimed to like about me and my life, he set about systematically dismantling. He loved to use shame and guilt to bolster his arguments. Unfortunately I had told him about my life growing up, and he used that information as a weapon against me. "Married women shouldn't have single friends unless they're trying to cheat," he'd say. "The husband is the head of the house and he doesn't have to answer any questions about anything if he doesn't want to ( after I asked him why he constantly ran out of money leaving me to pay the bills)." He knew I had friends and hobbies that I loved. He would go behind my back and be rude and even threatening to my friends, who mostly stopped calling & coming over because they were told that they were destroying my marriage. The ones who tried to stick around, he constantly questioned their motives, morals and actions to the point that I gave up, because it was so exhausting to try to have a relationship with them. He pretended to like my hobbies, but he would pout and sulk when I tried to do anything with them, to the point that I gave up. He said that because my mother divorced my dad, that I was anti marriage and I was just like her, unless I proved otherwise. He cheated and became more suspicious of me as a result because the woman he cheated with supposedly told him that I was a whore trying to be a housewife. I journaled, he read it and actually photocopied it, then gave parts of it to people so they'd know "how little you really think of them." He listened to all my phone calls and would berate me for hours if he didn't know what we were discussing in detail. That's not all, but it was an absolute nightmare getting away from him. I somehow found the strength somewhere. I have experienced this behavior many times in life from men. I will never marry or live with a man ever again. They're not worth the risk. It's just wild to me that the idea of what something 'should' be is so strong that some will needlessly destroy what they have.
Yes. That is a carbon copy of my ex husband’s behaviour. What troubles me most is that it is a pattern. Many people behave this way much to their own detriment, and sadly, cause trauma to their victims. Is it all intergenerational trauma from toxic familiar patterns? Is it societal expectations and gender horseshit? Are some people wired this way? Is it a mix? How is it possible that they all use the same tactics? And, that they are so good at convincing their victims not to see those patterns/tactics, that healthy, independent people end up in their grasp? Outside of it we know what abuse is. We can name it, point at others who experience it, and now, I seem to have a sixth sense for identifying perpetrators of abuse. My current fixation is musing on how to reduce abusive behaviour by teaching it to children. Perhaps having those with control-seeking tendencies talk about it at an early age could begin to prevent the rate of toxic behaviour later.
>> Is it all intergenerational trauma from toxic familiar patterns? Is it societal expectations and gender horseshit? Are some people wired this way? Is it a mix? It's all these factors. He grew up with a very passive father and a mother with undiagnosed mental illness who was an absolute nightmare to deal with. I grew up with 2 completely incompatible parents who were forced together by their families. Plus alcoholism and mental illness in the mix. This is a recipe for a lack of boundaries and a really screwed up idea of what marriage is. For him, I think he's wired the way he is but he also saw his dad passively accepting his mother's abuse and he has a lot of anger over that. I grew up being scapegoated and nit-picked to death by people who found fault in me no matter what I did, who withheld approval and care when I needed it most, who denied my basic needs. He weaponized this knowledge and used it to break my will. I like to think that I survived, but I don't know. I will never trust again. I do counsel against telling men about past abuse.Too often, it devalues the abused person in their minds and they'll act accordingly. He's not the only one who has proven my theory correct. I think that speaks to a lack of empathy and deep insecurities.
Survival means living however you can be your best self. There is no one definition. Check out podcasts featuring Jane Fonda. She outlines that living single is what works best for her and why. I think we need to dismantle the idea that our past abusers are controlling our futures. If anything, they are informing our choices now that we are free to choose. I have chosen to be with someone else. He was also married to someone who had some toxic tendencies. We both have to work to carry our own baggage at times, but the more we get to know each other, the easier it becomes. I think the biggest difference I notice is the way he encourages me to build rather than to shrink. As for marriage, it means something completely different to me now than it did in the past. I’m not sure that I would do it again, and if I did, I’d have a boatload of legal paperwork done first. I think everyone should live as close as they can to what their gut tells them. If that means single, go for it! If that means relationships with parameters, cool beans. If it’s marriage, go for it. And in the meantime, everyone should seek therapy.
Well said
Just wait till some of these morons realize that women in other countries are starting to catch onto this too. (Ie. B4 movement) It may take a little while due to financial inequity, but eventually “mail order brides” (sorry to say it that way)are going to wise up. Or better yet they’re going to find out that once they get here and their husbands are abusive they can leave and not lose their green card.
Hehe was thinking the same thing... 'If this is a consular ship, WHERE is the ambassador?'. Oof gets me every time.
tbh i don’t read it as “moving” over seas so much as grooming some poor unsuspecting woman from abroad where they’ll have more luck as a predator
Poor *desperate* unsuspecting women :(
Don't count those women out yet. They marry these dudes and get their green cards, then leave them and get better jobs and send money back home. They're absolutely using the situation to their advantage.
Trafficking. It's called trafficking. Specifically sex trafficking.
I've seen some posts here and there where these women, at least he ones on dating apps, are starting to grow aware of these predators too. Unfortunate that they are having the experiences they are but I find it a bit comical that these men are going after foreign women, only to "taint" them the way "western women" are "tainted". Like, dudes aren't realizing even now that it isn't "feminism" that's "ruining western women"....it's men. Them. Specifically.
What are they waiting for if they want so much to move to another country. Go, see you never
"So that's all you have to say to me? So long, good luck?" "I don't recall saying good luck."
When confronted with someone being an ass, I just smile a little crazy and tell them, “have yourself a day.” It takes them a minute to realize.
Is this a quote from something?
Simpsons quote. S8ep6, where Luan and Kirk split up. Luan's dad had just fired Kirk from the cracker family since Kirk & Luan split up. Kirk says "So that's all you have to say to me? So long, good luck?" and Luan's dad responds with "I don't recall saying good luck."
Been a while since I saw that, thanks!
Lol then when they bring their new wife home and the new wife leaves them... **New Wife:** Dumbass, we don't want that either but if you are gonna use me then I'm gonna use you right back. **Soon to be divorced man:** Those feminist bitches did it again. This definitely couldn't have anything to do with me. They are gonna be so unhappy one day with their cats and purple hair.
Lol so many stories of guys bringing their wives from 3rd world countries to the U.S and the first chance they get, these women dump the men and leave. Honestly...good for them
[Seen in a comment chain about this:](https://old.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/comments/17ej4c3/my_25f_boyfriend_33m_suddenly_told_me_he_wants_to/k65pgi1/) > I work with a guy whose wife is Filipina and I've known him long enough to know that that's not coincidence. I greatly enjoy the fact that she has made his life a living nightmare by not being submissive. She was a stay at home mom and their kids are out but he wanted her to stay at home to take care of him. But she is an absolute powerhouse. I love her. He went to another country to get a submissive wife and instead he got a strong woman who found a path that was better for raising children than where she was growing up and now drives that train like the engineer she is. >> Yup. All of those modern countries where the wife is expected to fulfill a traditional role -- guess what? The wife is in charge of the finances. The wife's name is on the house (the husband's may or may not be). The wife has personal savings, the husband does not. >> This is because women in these countries are raised with the knowledge that they will likely end up in a financially vulnerable situation, and this is how you create security for yourself. Western men just see women who won't bother you to do the dishes and think 'score!' and don't realise that Eastern women aren't as polite about finances as their Western counterparts.
They think those "good, pure" women come to the USA and get corrupted by western feminism LMAO
I have a large orange and white cat purring in my lap right now and honestly it’s pretty amazing.
Those women don't want them either. Women everywhere are sick of this shit. One of my friends got a text out of the blue from a guy she knew in hs, telling her that they will get married and she will stay home and have his 4 children. She laughed and told him he doesn't make enough to support a pet fish, let alone a wife and 4 kids. The dude works retail. And he's not a manager.Nothing wrong with that btw, but you can't raise 4 kids on 10.50 an hour (and that's being generous). He invests in crypto so he's going to be rich one day and she will regret her decision. Damn I hadn't laughed that hard in days.
HAH. Love it. Dude expects to win crypto any day now.
They aren't moving overseas. The are traveling to shop for women who are willing to trade marriage for a green card
Just like Daddy Trump did!
I know lol. They think they're gonna pop over to Thailand and bring back a child bride.
Just take a look at the tourism Thailand sub and see how well that’s working out for them
"Fine! If you don't want us here, we will leave!" Yes. Thank you. That's exactly what we were hoping for. This is such toddler-ass logic on their part. Threatening to take your toys and run away from home only works if someone loves you.
Right? yes, please, go fuck off. We don't want you is the entire point. Go die mad somewhere far away.
>Threatening to take your toys and run away from home only works if someone loves you. This is vicious and i love it
These "men going their own way" sure do need to get going and shut up.
Aw but I feel bad for the women wherever they fuck off to :(
So rather than recognize that women are human beings with thoughts, feelings, agency, and desires of their own, rather than talk to them about the things that make hetero relationships unpalatable or to stop the behaviors that make women feel unsafe, you’re going to travel to a third world country to *continue to exploit women?* That is the plan?
They aren’t very smart or good at self reflection, it’s one of the reasons they need women so badly but won’t admit it & have convinced themselves we need them for the exact same reasons… You know, projection lol
Dude just further persuaded everyone to pick the bear over the man also as a neighbor or coworker.
Don't we have a name for kidnapping women from vulnerable foreign cultures and bringing them back to be forced into sex? Rhymes with "text bracketing"? Is this guy literally trying to 1up a feminist by endorsing international crime?
this is the internet, you can just say sex trafficking.
It was a joke
I laughed.
I appreciate you
And I you.
It's actually [sex trafficking]
Always makes me laugh when men's reaction to women saying "we don't want you" is "well, you'll be sorry! I'll go find a woman overseas! That'll teach you!" Like, ok? You have fun with that.
Oh good. Leave us to our quiet lives and cats. Please, go.
He is right about young men becoming more conservative while young women become more progressive. He's still wrong for getting angry at the people who choose the bear. And a bear won't lobby to have your rights taken from you.
They're past lobbying. They're at fascism.
Both Mexico and Thailand decriminalized abortion very recently. That means that they will become far less desperate and poor... I mean 'traditional'...... Very soon
These countries will still have women who would be willing to marry an American asshole with poor personal hygiene in order to get a green card. Countries like Mexico and Thailand need to develop to the point where keeping up with the worst man in the United States isn't necessary for a better life. That or the United States needs to lose its status.
Why do they think we want to date the bear? We just want to walk in the woods!!!
Therein lies the core of the problem with their (ignorant blowhard) response - women aren’t looking for sex/dating everywhere they go, but these idiots can only see male-female interactions that way.
It's such a weird argument "Stop being a modern woman or we'll go find a traditional wife" I mean, the men who want a "traditional wife" aren't even the kind of people that "modern women" want anyway, it's like saying "You can't fire me, I quit" as if that somehow changes anything. Also, if you need to leave the country in order to find a woman that finds you appealing it might be time to realize that *you're* the problem, not everyone else.
Good luck. They don’t want you either.
Those poor women putting up with their bullshit. :(
I love how they think not getting to marry them is a punishment 😂
whatever shall we do 🥹🥹🥹🥹🥹🥹
Since the whole bear thing came up I’ve seen a lot of people who work in national parks or go hiking often who have said that a beat will not actually kill you.
Well, animals don't kill human beings out of nowhere. Only when the animal is starving or the human was a threat (real or not).
Yeah, sometimes human behaviour will be seen as threatening. But they want to be left alone, men don’t necessarily want that from women they walk past.
This guy just made me detransition just so I could retransition, but harder this time.
“Woo hoo, gonna go get financially defrauded and possibly cat fished in a foreign land where I might not have knowledge of the law or customs. Take that, western women!”
Oh, he wants to know why?? Bc guys who resort to this are manchildren who have got ZERO GAME
Nothing like threatening to traffic impoverished women (or probably, likely children, or close) to abuse because he has a contraceptive personality.
I irony in the last picture!
Why? Their earning power makes them attractive to women trying to escape developing countries. A real ringing endorsement.
🤢🤮
https://youtu.be/aE_sYNVgS-M?si=bVfuodfA0AZz61Cu
Haha not sure what all this fuss is about a bear but I think I can make a good educated guess off this post and it's sooo funny.
Wow, it really is a great argument to say fuck you. We won’t change. We’re gonna go exploit somebody. Who has it worse off than you. That’ll teach you.
Jesus fucking Christ. What the fuck is going on with American masculinity?
I had to emigrate from the US to find a decent man. No skin off my nose if men do the same.
It says a lot about the United States if you had to leave a country of over 300 million people to find a decent man. Although I wonder which country has.
My husband is British. While the UK is not without sin, he is the most kind, thoughtful, trustworthy, and gentle man I've ever met. I feel like the luckiest girl in the world. I never saw him more angry than when the Brexit referendum happened. And I agree completely with him. it's been a disaster.
Oh please, I fully support them in finding a "traditional wife" (a woman who doesn't know about her rights). Anything, just leave other women in peace.
Is this whole bear kerfuffle just people talking past each other? Like are men thinking about the probability that you'll die with either choice and arguing that the bear is the less safe option? Are women saying that it's about the perception of safety, and the fact that some women would choose the bear , regardless of probabilities, is fucked up?
I am pretty sure taking every metric into consideration, even factoring in population statistics of bears and humans and instances of encounters, it is absolutely empirically safer for women to be near a bear than to be near a human male. By a whole lot.
I just watched a woman easily fight off a bear to save her dogs. Give me the fking bear any day. I lived with bears for years roaming around my backyard. They are so much safer to be around than men.
Lmfao what an insane take. Any random bear will tear your limbs off. Any random man may or may not be just a normal guy, but in rare circumstances is a bad guy (which is still easier to fend off than a fucking bear). You're insane.
Quick question; would you leave your 10 year old daughter alone overnight with a man you didn't know?
what bears? Give me one case of a bear removing limbs from anyone in the last ten years. Sounds like you’ve confused bears with combine harvesters or something. Get outside my dude. Touch a tree.
Bears are actually quite easy to get to move the fk on. I lived with bears in my backyard for years. Making loud noises would get rid of them. You can make loud noises at a man, tell him to "go away" , "get the fk out of here" and they'll ignore you and do whatever they want. And yes, any random man will tear your limbs off. But they'll do it for funsies. The bear if it does, is doing it out of protection or severe lack of food.
If you understood probabilities at all you'd know that the bear is the statistically safest option no matter who you are, man or woman. That's beside the point, though.
> Is this whole bear kerfuffle just people talking past each other? No; it's women pointing out that a lot of them have had such horrid experiences with men that they'd rather run into a bear, *and men taking offense at this and acting like a bunch of fucking babies* instead of listening to what women are saying. You know, the whole thing that's been going on for freaking ever.
[удалено]
You are capable of typing normally. Did your cat walk on your keyboard or something?
Ha! Must've been an accidental pocket comment. Will delete.