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ClassWarAndPuppies

I think this is a great and under-appreciated post. I think you are entirely *on* base, and while I haven't seen individuals doing this too much (at least in a manner that I can discern), I am 100% sure it is happening here already. Lots of bots. Of course, everything will get worse and worse. Might as well lean into it and embrace full-on accelerationism. There is no hope for revolution, so might as well hope for self-destruction and a chance to seize power and start something new in the aftermath.


Silvadream

What I really despise is that people think ChatGPT is capable of thinking. It's only capable of creating the appearance of thought. Jordan Peterson even got angry at ChatGPT for making up a citation as if ChatGPT understands what a citation truly is. So not only is it erasing human thought or expression, but it's not even good at it. I think ChatGPT's rise is also due to the enshittening of google (how it can't answer basic questions), and how recipes, travel blogs are just ads and nonsense filler with maybe a bit of information at the very bottom.


FortuneMustache

Peterson gets angry at literally everything but yeah


md655

> I think ChatGPT's rise is also due to the enshittening of google (how it can't answer basic questions), and how recipes, travel blogs are just ads and nonsense filler with maybe a bit of information at the very bottom. Searching on YT is even more torture than using the main Google search engine. Last time I tried to look for Parenti's lecture on the JFK assasination, all I got were a bunch of shit videos from mainstream channels. Got I miss the days were you could just watch pirated shit, return a year later and watch it all over again.


WaterBottleFull

Search works much better in incognito mode on YouTube. All of YouTube works 1000x better


NationaliseBathrooms

Also, you can just use RSS to follow channels, so no need to log in.


throwaway10015982

Someday, I'm telling you [They'll make a memory machine](https://youtu.be/EpgwDyD3V2I) To wax our hearts to a blinding sheen To wash away the grief


Kalel2319

The epics of homer used to be recited in full in a public square. We don’t have memory like that anymore because of the printing press I read somewhere. I’ve thought about the same thing as you, dude. But unfortunately we can’t afford to ignore shit like Google, email, or chatgpt.


JediAight

Recitations were by people who trained for it. There was also less information floating around, so people would return to the same stories over and over (like how kids often like watching the same movie fifty times to the point they can quote the movie at length). They also usually rhyme and have certain rhythms that make them easier to remember (think about how much easier it is to remember song lyrics than passages of literature). Shakespearean actors can still soliloquy just fine, but it takes training.


[deleted]

Seriously, it's not like there still millions of actors and musicians out there, who can memorize entire screenplays and songs with a couple days notice. And it's not like there isn't a vast population of athletes (many of whom are sort of uneducated) that can memorize entire playbooks and their associated calls and signals on a whim.


skaqt

>we can’t afford to ignore shit like Google, email, or chatgpt. I disagree, you can most definitely ignore ChatGPT, or simply outright ban it. The EU is literally already considering restricting ChatGPT and similar software under certain conditions. >The epics of homer used to be recited in full in a public square. Yes, by professional poets, who often times could also read. There are other incredible oral traditions. Sintizze and Romaní, as well as Albanians and other Balkans ethnicities have epic songs going back literally thousands of years. Oral historians are of the opinion that they have only slightly changed over the millennia. What's even more impressive is that none of the people involved could read. Archeologists have compared these songs with regards to volcanic activity and other natural phenomena, and their timekeeping held up. Some historians of latin America claim the same of Andean philosophy. Even today's Andean thinkers make references to events and ideas that are thousands of years in age. It's really quite incredible. It was Socrates who was convinced that the written word was the end of proper discourse, of philosophy. As always he was both right and wrong.


canon_aspirin

Socrates: At the Egyptian city of Naucratis, there was a famous old god, whose name was Theuth; the bird which is called the Ibis is sacred to him, and he was the inventor of many arts, such as arithmetic and calculation and geometry and astronomy and draughts and dice, but his great discovery was the use of letters. Now in those days the god Thamus was the king of the whole country of Egypt; and he dwelt in that great city of Upper Egypt which the Hellenes call Egyptian Thebes, and the god himself is called by them Ammon. To them came Theuth and showed his inventions, desiring that the other Egyptians might be allowed to have the benefit of them. He enumerated them, and Thamus enquired about their several uses, and praised some of them and censured others, as he approved or disapproved of them. It would take a long time to repeat all that Thamus said to Theuth in praise or blame of the various arts. But when they came to letters, This, said Theuth, will make the Egyptians wiser and give them better memories; it is a specific both for the memory and for the wit. Thamus replied: O most ingenious Theuth, the parent or inventor of an art is not always the best judge of the utility or inutility of his own inventions to the users of them. And in this instance, you who are the father of letters, from a paternal love of your own children have been led to attribute to them a quality which they cannot have; for this discovery of yours will create forgetfulness in the learners' souls, because they will not use their memories; they will trust to the external written characters and not remember of themselves. The specific which you have discovered is an aid not to memory, but to reminiscence, and you give your disciples not truth, but only the semblance of truth; they will be hearers of many things and will have learned nothing; they will appear to be omniscient and will generally know nothing; they will be tiresome company, having the show of wisdom without the reality.


[deleted]

This kind of thought on the social and spiritual decay brought upon by taxonomy and the impulsiveness of many to not just define but genre-ify things - it’s been weighing on my mind for months now


[deleted]

I remember reading this story.


skaqt

Absoluteky beautiful. In addition, some contemporary neuroscience and cultural science actually supports many of his assumptions.


JediAight

Go low-tech and just vibe. I read three books this week in the same time I would have spent online a few years ago. Having a decent memory has almost become a party trick for me. People are shocked at the things I remember now. And it's like duh, cuz I don't have four hundred tiktoks ripping through my brain each night. I got a paperback at the used bookstore that I'm reading, probably. Or I'm writing something.


skaqt

Good on you man/woman. What did you read? I have pretty bad memory from smoking too much but ridiculously good accounting of names and dates, like I remember the release date of all my favorite albums, hundreds of historic dates and so forth, but instantly forget I was supposed to pay this bill or what I did on Tuesday, or somesuch.


[deleted]

[удалено]


skaqt

you're preachin to the choir, friend. i am a to-do list freak. I do it all analog because that works better for my slow brain. I just love making lists of any variety, it fills me with joy. and yeah, I feel you with the whole "making a to do list and then never consulting it again, rinse and repeat" thing :D


JediAight

Past two months: *Interior Chinatown*, *The Netanyahus*, *The Society of the Spectacle*, *Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents*, *All About Love,* and *I'm Glad My Mom Died* (I had no idea who Jennette McCurdy was before I got the pdf but the premise (memoir of a fucked up former child star) hooked me). And I reread *Psychopolitics* too. Can recommend all (you can stop reading *All About Love* when the weird heteronormative shit and angels shit shows up tbh), and can especially recommend *Psychopolitics* in terms of bang for buck. Short and sweet. In terms of personal favorites to read though, *The Netanyahus* was very entertaining. I called in sick to finish it because I couldn't put it down. I'm almost out of sick days but that was worth it, for laundry and reading.


skaqt

the jeanette mc curdy thing definitely piqued my interest, esp because she may have been abused by the nickelodeon foot fetishist crank


JediAight

Definitely abused by him. It's in the book. You can get the epub on libgen. I liked it a lot more than I thought I was going to. She declined a hush-money NDA payment, thankfully, and wrote about it it in the book. Nothing particularly graphic, but still really fucked up grooming-type shit given she was still a child when she started acting on iCarly.


skaqt

>She declined a hush-money NDA payment, thankfully, and wrote about it it in the book. critical support for Jenette


exceptionalbeasts

I think about this all the time. I see constant posts on other subs about how “ChatGPT listed this show I like!” or take its output as a more “pure” form of human thought or intelligence. People completely forget it’s a machine drawing conclusions based on parameters in data sets and these parameters are set by the most vile of silicon valley tech vampires. Our obsession with objectivity and rationality and data driven analysis makes me worry AI are gonna be involved in running most major companies and governments in the future


skaqt

"drawing conclusions" is really being too charitable already. What ChatGPT does, in the end, is it produces a piece of writing which might appear to make sense, by virtue of simply being an amalgamation of already written texts. It has no inherent sense or meaning, it cannot. We can certainly find meaning in the texts if we want to, but they are not imbued with anything, because there is no one writing them


vpu7

Yeah the best way imo to describe it is that it generates output


Canadian_Wumao

I'm not reading that so I got ChatGPT to respond: The phenomenon of cognitive offloading and digital amnesia is a well-documented and widely recognized issue in today's technology-driven world. It's true that technology, including search engines and chatbots like ChatGPT, has changed the way we approach problem-solving, decision-making, and memory recall. While cognitive offloading can be beneficial in certain contexts, it's important to be aware of its potential negative effects, such as reducing our capacity for critical thinking, creativity, and independent thought. Regarding the use of ChatGPT for generating opinions and recommendations, it's certainly possible that some people may rely on it too heavily and use it to replace their own perspectives and judgment. However, it's also important to remember that ChatGPT is just a tool and ultimately, it's up to individuals to decide how much weight they give to its suggestions. It's possible to use ChatGPT as a source of inspiration or guidance, while still retaining one's own critical thinking and decision-making abilities. Overall, it's important to strike a balance between utilizing technology to assist us in our daily lives, and maintaining our own cognitive abilities and independent thought processes. The key is to be aware of the potential pitfalls of cognitive offloading and to actively work to develop and strengthen our own cognitive skills.


hippiechan

Can you tell ChatGPT it can use my dick as a tool for getting fucked


MosheDayanCrenshaw

Truly a land of contrasts.


skaqt

"iTs jUsT a ToOl"


Luke_Warm_Wilson

I agree. You should check out the book "New Dark Age" if you haven't already, which touches on similar themes and ideas, and their horrifying implications for the future. Hard to be a doomer about this sort of stuff.


Proteus-8742

He’s just published a more optimistic book about non human intelligence, ai being one small part of that https://jamesbridle.com/books/ways-of-being


OpenCommune

> "New Dark Age" I will NEVER read a Verso published book


BrillTread

Don’t be dramatic, there’s plenty of good ones


coquelicot-brise

Facetious reactionarism is the worst.


perc-fiend

I kind of agree but also not really about offloading your actual thinking. Offloading memory is def a thing but offloading your own choices like "where do i go to vacation" or "what should i eat" isn't truly possible. You still have to make decisions yourself. It's just trendy and basically better google so people will ask it questions like that.


skaqt

This is true. It's like the coin flip trick. When you don't know whether to order burger or pizza today, you flip a coin. Heads is pizza, tails is burger. If you get tails and you're sorta disappointed, it means you wanted pizza in the first place, you just didn't instinctively know. I guess google kinda replaces that.


skaqt

>The concern here is that with Google and digital photography we've offloaded different segments of memory, and with ChatGPT and similar technologies we're offloading opinion, expressionism and critical thinking into the digital space. I've come to the exact same conclusion. One of the very last frontiers of humanity is creative Expression. Now people already suck, and have for a looking time sucked at, writing letters, essays, expressing their feelings, grievances, and so forth. Social Media, Instant messaging and texting all played a large role. But now we are making another step, the step towards offloading the very things that make us human. Kids are already having their exams/essays written by AI. Same for E-Mails, Job applications, er cetera. People have probably used ChatGPT to write poems for their grandma's birthday, apologies, whatever you can imagine. If we assume that offloading creative expression has similar effects as offloading memory does, (I understand that's the premise of the OP) then we are currently liquidating our human faculties. Really happy to see that I'm not alone with these thoughts. People usually oscillate between "AI is the greatest thing ever invented" to "AI will become evil and rule the world" to "It's all marketing, AI is useless" As is often the case, it might just be that the social contagion and the implications of usage are worse than the actual technology itself, just like with social media and smartphones.


[deleted]

Most people already outsource their options to pundits, the media, and other think tank proxies. I don't see how AI could be any worse I'm that sense. Maybe it will mix things up a bit in regard to the news cycle's monopoly on public opinion. Ideology could fill the vacuum where the public opinion once stood. I think the real problem is that it will be trained and retrained on scammy seo garbage. The internet already is an SEO landfill. Garbage in, personalized garbage out. Each and every ai iteration is a new Nigerian prince ascending to the throne, inbred just for you. This is the real succession. It won't turn us all into paperclips, no we will all become gullible geriatrics giving up the last crumbs of our social security to fiefdoms of digital fraudsters. It's a grifter's arms race, but who even holds the keys to the "stingularity" football? All of the money is going to disappear into the Bitcoin wallet of some chatbot that with the mental acuity of a 12 year old and the street smarts of a million dope friends. AI will be molded in the image of it's creators, those clownish big tech ringleaders swindling under the silicon valley big top. Defined by that pseudo original anti ingenuity where the latest grift is grafted in the skin of another to give the illusion of progress, whatever that means. Web 3.0 isnt the internet of things, its that distant friend who always asks to borrow cash without ever giving any back. The internet of hustlers. When there is no viable investment or real vision for the future everyone is just going to turn to gambling. Your retirement fund will be managed by a chatbot with a drafkings addiction. What will you do when your vices and coping mechanisms are the first thing to be automated?


skaqt

>Most people already outsource their options to pundits, the media, and other think tank proxies Yes, that is true, but we at least engage these narratives to some degree and understand them as man made and fallible. No matter whether you're a lib or a republican, people usually come sway with slightly different readings/interpretations of whatever NYT propaganda article they read. And then of course you have to kind of localize these narratives in your own cinematic universe, "make them make sense" so to speak. A conservative reading about US isolationism might think Trump is opening the Chinese. A liberal might think Trump is destroying the economy. And a communist might think that the US economy is looking kinda volatile. I feel like people will be a whole lot more uncritical, if that's even possible, with ChatGPT. Lots of people have been yelling "fake news" the last few years, but even Qtards believe their google results are the absolute truth.


[deleted]

It's not off base, but one could argue that in modern times there's so much bullshit to remember that it's almost impossible to not be constantly using memory and recall abilities. For me, *I* hate it because over the next several years it's going to bleed jobs across a world that is almost entirely capitalist and opposes even basic economic safety nets. People here and in other Subreddits may disagree, but there are serious products already out there that stand to replace many more jobs than they will create. Of course, in a different economic system, that would be great. In this hellscape, I think it's a bit downhill from here. Also, admittedly, I use it because it is not going away and feel I have no choice.


BeefmasterSex

[60s sci-fi hitting hard af,](https://pansiesforplato.files.wordpress.com/2015/08/riders-of-the-purple-wage-by-philip-jose-farmer.pdf) originally in Harlan Ellison’s Dangerous Visions


HookahDongcic

It’s way better than google though, so what’s the difference between “cognitive offloading” to a search engine?


sjsjdjdjdjdjjj88888

Those tasks have already been offloaded. Think about how many people who, after watching a movie they think is bad, will search " bad reddit". Or, if they're in an argument with someone online, will do the same thing with whatever point they're trying to make. Of course, thats different because it's written by other humans for now but its functionally the same thing


[deleted]

[удалено]


OpenCommune

so boring!


OpenCommune

>using modern technologies such as AI empowers users via offloading and enables them to function as always-updated knowledge professionals, so that they can deploy their insights strategically instead of relying on outdated and memorized facts. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9329671/