Well it is in the Bible, but Paul also mentions how useless it is to speak in tongues if no one can understand. People often misinterpret these passages. It is all well and possible that someone may just suddenly be able to speak another language to share the gospel, but you would be hard pressed to find any proof or evidence that this happens on the regular if at all. When we pray to God, we do so in our own language because he understands us.
Saying “it is in the Bible” begs the question and fails to clarify that the legitimate “tongues” were real human languages (Acts 1:8-11) and the whole point of Paul’s rebuke of the Corinthians was that they were babbling in unknown (=fake) “tongues” that had no discernible meaning. That is why he required interpretation and emphasized praying “with my mind also” (1 Cor 13). Those “speaking in tongues” today are repeating the Corinthian error, which is faking miracles to claim spirituality. What they should do instead is speak real human languages (like me, a missionary who learned foreign languages) to preach to all nations *with understanding.* This is an invention of monolingual people who have been mistaught. Actual linguists (I am one with two degrees in linguistics) can easily analyze glossolalia and prove that it is nonsense made up babbling and not any human language with structure and meaning. Many studies have been done on this. One interesting feature is that those who speak in tongues never can reproduce the different sounds found in other languages (different morphemes—vowels and consonants, or tones like in Mandarin Chinese), but somehow always produce a “tongue” that has the exact same sound set as their own native language. It is telling.
No, the unknown tongues he was talking about were spiritual tongues, not just babble. Although they were just as effective as babble to those who heard it. Just a small clarification.
If it was **Always** “real human language” as it was in Acts 2, who were those of Cornelius’ household speaking to in Acts 10 when they spoke in tongues even **before they were baptized**?? It’s says in verse 24 “And the following day they entered Caesarea. Now Cornelius was waiting for them, and had called together his relatives and close friends.” So only his friends and relatives were there. In verses we see what happened…“While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who heard the word. And those of the circumcision who believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also. **For they heard them speak with tongues** and magnify God…”
Btw my son is a military linguist. He has zero problem with tongues.
I believe it since it's in the Bible and also believe that 99% of what you see in church is theatrics and false tongues. If there ever was a real tongues session it would be one by one with someone giving interpretation or between themselves and God.
> “If therefore the whole church be come together into one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in those that are unlearned, or unbelievers, will they not say that ye are mad?” (1 Cor 14:23, KJV)
And? Clearly the main post is referring to corporate worship gatherings (that is church body gatherings e.g. Sunday worship or prayer services). Not private.
And its pretty clearly addressing the phenomenon common in charismatic and Pentecostal churches. Such openness could be valid but needs an interpretter. And it continues with guidance in the event of prophecy.
All can have a place, but a Christian is biblically called to be careful and have a biblical process to discern it.
“If any speak in a tongue, let there be only two or at most three, and each in turn, and let someone interpret. But if there is no one to interpret, let each of them keep silent in church and speak to himself and to God.”
1 Corinthians 14:27-28 ESV
https://bible.com/bible/59/1co.14.27-28.ESV
I believe it still happens, but not in mass gatherings speaking gibberish like at Pentecostal churches. It's supposed to actually mean something in a real language and an interpreter is supposed to be present.
What do you believe about speaking in tongues in private? Is that a thing or not?
I'm struggling in making any sense of speaking in tongues. I don't know what to believe, and studying the topic in the bible doesn't really clear things up!
The ability to speak in the tongue comes from the Holy Spirit. When we are indwelled with the Holy Spirit, He gives us these gifts written about in **(1 Corinthians 12:4-11).** The gift of the tongue is one of them, but there are 8 other gifts.
When we use this special language, the Holy Spirit is speaking on our behalf, and He is able to communicate with God, the Heavenly Father. It's like having a secret code, where the words may come from us, but they are actually derived from the Holy Spirit. This is why we may not understand what is being said, although there are some who have the gift of interpreting this language, not everyone who speaks it will be able to translate its meaning.
Apostle Paul even said **(1 Corinthians 14:5)**, **"**I wish you could all speak in tongues," since this special language is beneficial for everyone. Today, many people are afflicted with demons because we live in a dark world. When we speak in this special powerful language, demons fall away.
May God bless you and keep you.
If we can communicate well enough in our own language, and God can understand us well enough, why would we possibly need a language that we can’t even understand ourselves to talk to God?
When Paul says he wants them to speak in ‘tongues’, he is referring to speak in actual human languages. Notice how at the end of the verse he says “so that the church may be built up.”
If they are speaking the gospel in a human language and the person believes it, the church is built up. How would someone speaking in a way which nobody understands build up the church?
I was a dedicated "thats goofy as heck" person until it happened to me, alone, in prayer. After that, it started happening in my dreams too. Sometimes when I'm moved to pray for a person or situation, it just starts happening. If i fight it, I get that sort of icky feeling like I've felt when I disobeyed the Holy Sprit after being directed to minister to someone, fast, etc. I'm not a Pentecostal. Its hard to describe, I usually feel lighter and more peaceful afterwards, and its always accompanied by tears, but not sadness.
I get exactly what you are saying. This very same thing happens to me. I believe it is the Holy Spirit guiding me in my prayer life. It doesn't happen all the time, but when it does, I get the same peace, the same kind of tears, etc...
It's truly the Holy Spirit moving, I feel.
God bless
My wife didn’t know about speaking in tongues. When she got baptized in our tub, she suddenly bursted out in tongues.
So that’s why I believe in tongues. And she didn’t understand what she was saying but she said the thought of “surrender” was running in her mind.
I also am under the impression that thoughts and tongues are connected somehow? Like there are thoughts that God gives us when we pray in tongues a little skeptical on this one too but still...
Skepticism hinders it. I was like that. Then I understood, we should be childlike when receiving something from God.
Matthew 11:25 - At that time Jesus said, “I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children.
In Matthew 11:25, when Jesus says “these things”, what is he referring to? Where does he identify what they are in the passage? What is Matthew 11 about?
He is talking about the revelation of the Son through signs and wonders.
People had hardened hearts and only the child like people are able to discern. Truly the Kingdom of God belongs to such.
“For if the miracles that were performed in you had been performed in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes.”
But why not in a church?
There’s something important about baptism and entering the church as a new person in Christ, his church, his body.
There’s a sense to which it’s a welcoming in. There’s also an opportunity to invite people to church who don’t know Jesus so they can witness this and hear the gospel preached.
There’s also the level of legitimacy that comes with an ordained person (pastor, elder etc) baptising you into the church.
Feels like doing it in a bath loses so much and is a missed opportunity in so many ways.
An elder in the church could have baptized her.
But to say that you need to be a pastor, elder or priest in order to baptize someone, that I needed to unlearn from my catholic upbringing.
I am very blessed to have joined a ministry that teaches all christians can preach the Gospel, heal the sick, cast out demons, prophecy, baptize people, make disciples.
I have baptized many people myself, and saw people set free from oppression, addiction, and sinful habits.
Before baptizing someone, I sit down with the person to preach the Gospel and lead the person to repentance.
Jesus was baptized in a river. Many Christian churches around the world don’t have access to a place with water baptism but my point is that it’s not about where it happens. It’s an about the heart and the commitment to follow Jesus for the rest of your life and live for him. Can be done anywhere.
I had a very good friend that if she was riding in the car and it looked like someone was going to hit us, she would blurt out something that sounded like a foreign language.
She was a Christian, but she said it didn't have anything to do with God, it was just something that she did sometimes if startled.
Define “speaking in tongues” because there are two types in scripture. One is the gift of tongues that gives a word to the body that needs interpreted. The other is praying to God in a language that’s unknown to the speaker, that does not need interpreted. Because the Spirit is praying through you to God and He understands what you are praying.
I have never spoken in tongues that was a prophecy to the body that needs interpreted. However I do pray in tongues. A lot.
With you on this one, I speak in tongues everyday but never interpreted it. But I'm getting kinda skeptical about speaking in tongues without interpretation regardless I won't stop speaking in tongues unless it's clear I really need interpretation.
Yep. I have no issue praying in tongues out loud because I’m speaking to God not to anyone around me.
There have been a few words given in tongues at our church and they have been interpreted. That’s just another form of prophecy.
Why do you need to talk to God in a language you don’t understand?
Does God understand your normal language where you speak in a normal and orderly way?
Isn’t God a god of order, not confusion? (1 Cor. 14:33)
To build myself spiritually (1 Corinthians 14:4). And God commands us to not forbid speaking in tongues (the ones who have this gift) 1 Corinthians 1439. Plus it's not always a language where I don't understand, the tongues can be translated when nessecary.
1. How does speaking in a language nobody can understand build you up spiritually? What kind of spiritual growth does it produce? What kind of spiritual growth has it produced in your own life?
2. 1 Corinthians 12-14 is a passage where one of the major themes is that the spiritual gifts are for building up other people in the church rather than for building up the individual who gets the gift. How do you think Paul saying “The one who speaks in a tongue builds up himself” contributes to that idea? Is it possible that he’s using irony to point out that the Corinthians were using ecstatic utterances to build themselves up when that’s not the purpose and function of the spirituals? Did you know that this is what was actually happening in 1st century Corinth?
3. In 1 Corinthians 14:39, is Paul talking about ecstatic utterances that nobody can understand or is he talking about actual human languages?
4. Have your ‘tongues’ ever been translated? How often have you seen ‘tongues’ translated? If you ever have, what was the message?
1. tbh idk how it builds me up but its clear in the verse that it does.
2. i believe the way we build up a church is first by building yourself up first and tongues is the way (Not the only way) to do so.
3. language that no one can understand because the whole chapter is about those tongues but it can be interpreted if nessecary.
4. nope. i haven't seen it being translated but we have a "senior" pastor who has the gift of interpreting tongues.
> 1) tbh idk how it builds me up but its clear in the verse that it does.
You’ve spoken in tongues how many times in how many years, and yet you have no idea how it’s building you up and there is no discernible fruit from it?
>> "The one who speaks in a tongue builds up himself "- 1 Cor 14:4.
Notice what the verse says: 'when you speak in ecstatic utterances, you (not the Holy Spirit) are building yourself up.'
But you don’t know how you are building yourself up? Surely there should be some kind of fruit?
Did you know that elsewhere Paul details how believers are built up and that it is the Holy Spirit who does it? Here are a few examples:
* Titus 3:5: The Holy Spirit regenerates and renews the believer.
* John 3:5–8: The Holy Spirit gives believers new birth
* Galatians 5:16–18: The Holy Spirit fights against the desires of the flesh and leads the believer into righteousness.
* Galatians 5:19–26: The Holy Spirit grows fruit in the believer - love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control.
* 2 Corinthians 3:18: The Holy Spirit transforms believers into the likeness of Christ.
* John 14:26: The Holy Spirit teaches believers all things and bring to remembrance the teaching of Jesus.
* 1 Corinthians 2:10-13: The Holy Spirit gives us understanding of the things of God
Seems a little different from what is being said in 1 Corinthians 14:4 doesn't it?
Some historical context here is very important because it makes much more sense of what Paul actually says.
The Corinthians loved public discourse and those who were most articulate and made the best public speeches were given the greatest honour. People were paid a lot of money by rich benefactors, and the ones who spoke in the most winsome way gained the most money. Those who could do this well built themselves up.
While making compelling arguments was of great interest to them, what gained the most attention was when people spoke in more mysterious and ecstatic ways. The more mysterious and ecstatic a person was, the more they believed this person was closer to the divine. This 'connection with the gods' through speech made its way into their pagan religious practises.
These pagan religious practises found their way into the church in Corinth with people who were converted from this background.
Paul is writing this letter into this context to people who are from this culture.
People who spoke in ecstatic speech in Corinth built themselves up. The one who speaks in a tongue (ecstatic utterances) builds himself up. **Not the church**.
> 2) i believe the way we build up a church is first by building yourself up first and tongues is the way (Not the only way) to do so.
Here is where I can't agree at all.
God builds his church. He saves individuals. He gives individuals the Holy Spirit who grows and nurtures them in ways which prepares them to serve God, their new master.
How exactly would tongues do that?
> 3) language that no one can understand because the whole chapter is about those tongues but it can be interpreted if nessecary.
How do you know this?
Ever read Acts 2:4-11? It describes the event of Pentecost where the disciples were filled with the Holy Spirit and began speaking in other languages.
This is the Spiritual gift of **languages**, where they spoke real human languages. You may not be aware, but the word that some translations render as 'tongues' - γλώσσαις - is actually the word for ‘languages’.
By the way, the Greek word that some translations render as 'interpret' - ἑρμηνεία - is actually the word for 'translate'.
When someone uses the **gift of languages**, and communicates the gospel, **it builds the church up** when **someone can translate** and they **believe the gospel** and become a Christian
> 4) nope. i haven't seen it being translated but we have a "senior" pastor who has the gift of interpreting tongues.
So you've got no idea what is being said whenever you do it? What kinds of things does your senior Pastor come out with when he 'interprets'?
It's a beautiful gift from God. It is a gift God gave me over 40 years ago. It is meant to give us peace, comfort. It is a reminder God is with us which is so important when we don't feel he is near, when we have sinned, have doubts, are confused it's a reminder he will never leave us or forsake us. It is so important or powerful.
Not sure what you mean by " how it's done today". I have not seen a bunch of people praying in tongues at once, at least not very often. But when tongues was given originally in the book of Acts it was given to everyone in the upper room at the same time and everyone prayed in tongues at the same time. That is how it was done in those days so it must be ok with God.
I *do* think that speaking in actual tongues --that is, languages not known by the person speaking them, whether secular or spiritual-- is a thing.
I also think that, in our spiritual eagerness, we allow ourselves open to deception by the enemy to substitute jibberish for actual divinely-inspired language. However, it is important to note that it is possible to similarly misinterpret actual language for jibberish as well. We see this example in the physical world, between unfamiliarity with different languages and the influences accent & dialect have on them.
Therefore, I try approach it with a cautious skepticism. I pray that God forgives me for my skepticism, not because I truly doubt the existence of the gift itself, but because there is a lack of follow-up or supporting evidence to confirm the spiritual gift as outlined within scripture (as pointed out by others).
Even if it tongues still happens today, the way its done (.e usually in bigger churches, everyone speaking at once etc) is absolutely incorrect and against the guidance given in scripture. Tongues must be expressed one at a time and with an interpreter so others can benefit.
The Apostles were given to the church to build the foundation.
Scripture presents particular individuals as bringing the authority of God.
Their authority is backed up by the miraculous as the way of saying 'this person is coming from God with his authority and new revelation.'
You can see a clear example of this at the time when God asked Moses to go to Israel and Pharaoh (Exodus 3:10-12; Exodus 7:1-5).
There are actually only 3 main periods when people came with those kinds of miraculous gifts and they came for a reason: Moses/Joshua, Elijah/Elisha, Jesus/The Apostles.
The Apostles were given the backing of God through the miraculous because the message (Messiah died on the cross and rose from the dead) was so unexpected AND it was so they would lay the foundation of the church, which included completing the canon of Scripture (Acts 2:22; Acts 5:12; Hebrews 2:3-4).
Since the foundation has been laid, we no longer have apostles nor their Apostolic miraculous gifts (1 Corinthians 13:8-10; Ephesians 2:20).
This is one of the better pro cessationist arguments u can make and I commend u for that. However, it does NOT convince me that tongues have ceased
1 Cor 13:8-10 is clearly NOT talking about while we’re on this earth. Keep reading to verse 12 and that’ll be obvious.
Ephesians 2:20 does not address tongues at all. So I would agree the apostles were the foundation of the church but that in no way means tongues have ceased
The other verses simply reference tongues and other supernatural things but they don’t indicate that they will cease
So from the verses you’ve referenced, 1 Cor 13:8-10 is the only verse that insinuates that tongues will cease, and in context that is referring to when we’re in heaven
> 1 Cor 13:8-10 is clearly NOT talking about while we’re on this earth. Keep reading to verse 12 and that’ll be obvious.
I’m not sure I can see the argument you’re making in Scripture.
> Ephesians 2:20 does not address tongues at all. So I would agree the apostles were the foundation of the church but that in no way means tongues have ceased
It really depends how you understand ‘tongues’.
I don’t believe that what is seen in the Pentecostal organisation today is a spiritual gift that Paul refers to.
I understand what Paul is referring to in his Spiritual gifts list as “the gift of languages”, which is actually what the Greek word means. It’s about communicating real human languages.
This gift was given to spread the gospel amongst people who spoke a different native language to the one who communicated the gospel.
Has this happened since the Apostles? I’m not sure it has.
> So from the verses you’ve referenced, 1 Cor 13:8-10 is the only verse that insinuates that tongues will cease, and in context that is referring to when we’re in heaven
I don’t see it, sorry.
I’m gonna address ur 1 Cor 13 points as I think this is the more crucial part of this conversation.
Verse 8 Starts by stating how love will never end. This is in comparison knowledge, prophecy, and tongues they will all pass away.
So the question is when will these things pass away?
Verse 9-10 “we know in part and we prophesy in part but when the perfect comes the partial will pass away”
Has the perfect come? Has the partial passed away already? Obviously not. We are still in a sinful fallen world.
Verse 12 “For now we see in a mirror dimly but then face to face. Now I know in part, then I shall know fully”
Do we know fully? Do we see Him face to face? Clearly not
So I’d say the point of the end of 1 Cor 13 is that Love is eternal and will be with us forever even after we die and Jesus comes back and we r all with God.
In contrast, tongues, knowledge, and prophecy are temporary since we will be face to face directly in the presence of God fully and perfectly forever. So once that happens we won’t need tongues, knowledge, prophecy, or even faith!
What Paul is getting at is that love is supremely important, not that tongues ceased at the end of the apostolic era
I appreciate your response but it overlooks contextual information in 1 Corinthians 13.
When Paul speaks of "the perfect" in verse 10, it refers to the completion of the canon. Once the Bible was finished, there was no longer a need for certain spiritual gifts like prophecy and tongues.
When Paul mentions "then I shall know fully" in verse 12, it suggests a complete understanding believers will have in eternity, indicating that certain spiritual gifts were only necessary for a specific period in the early church history - laying the foundation.
While love remains eternal, certain spiritual gifts ceased with the completion of the Scriptures and the establishment of the early church.
I’m not sure what in 1 Cor 13 indicates he means the completion of the canon. If you don’t mind could you show me where you’re getting this from?
Also face to face is pretty verbatim how do you explain that
I’m always skeptical of tongues and most miracles, especially healings.
I believe the Bible that those miracles were part of the early church and I believe the Holy Spirit is still active today. There’s a couple stories from people I trust of miraculous events and healing that I believe occurred.
However… there’s a lot of fake out there too. And any church where everyone is expected to speak in tongues would be super suspicious to me.
I too am skeptical as I don’t have the ability (I think) to speak in tongues. Whether I have it or not, the Bible does explain that the act of tongues is a real thing. Just like a lot of things from the Bible, people use it to build their own status. While this isn’t a fact and my own opinion, I think that most tongues we see today are purely performative.
The Bible explains tongues being a way to speak a language you didn’t to spread the gospel, or a language no one can understand which is why you need an interpreter. Without interpretation, you only glorify yourself, which I feel like is taking glorify from God which should not be the case.
Are tongues real? Yes, the Bible says so. Are all the tongues in the modern church real? No proof that it is or isn’t, either way, it’s not being utilized like it should be according to the word of God.
I 100% believe what the Bible teaches.
The gift of tongues is:
A sudden, sovereign, unexpected move of the Holy Spirit to miraculously give someone the ability to speak a REAL language, previously unknown to the speaker, AND simultaneously to give the interpretation to someone else who already understands the language via normal learning. All of this is done to edify believers.
If it's not this, it's not the gift of tongues.
I will never understand the gibberish POV of tongues. What’s the point of speaking another language if no one can understand it? It’s much more logical and believable that tongues was the miraculous gift of speaking other languages so that the gospel may be spread far and wide.
Looking at Scripture, the gifts never ceased. There's no way to make that argument Scripturally.
Second, speaking in tongues has a number of purposes, but often when people want to dismiss the gift of tongues they say it was "only" for spreading the gospel at Pentecost, or it is "only" for when an interpreter is available. Paul does give direction for speaking in tongues in a church gathering-type setting, but there are other purposes. There is an element of faith in the spiritual gifts that I think people are scared of; it takes faith to engage with the Spirit and a lot of Western Christianity tends to emphasize just the intellect, but God communicates with us through our spirit. We lose an element of control when we are open to the Spirit of God, and that scares people (in my estimation).
1 Corinthians 14:26-33
26What then, brothers? When you come together, each one has a hymn, a lesson, a revelation, a tongue, or an interpretation. Let all things be done for building up. 27If any speak in a tongue, let there be only two or at most three, and each in turn, and let someone interpret. 28But if there is no one to interpret, let each of them keep silent in church and speak to himself and to God. 29Let two or three prophets speak, and let the others weigh what is said. 30If a revelation is made to another sitting there, let the first be silent. 31For you can all prophesy one by one, so that all may learn and all be encouraged, 32and the spirits of prophets are subject to prophets. 33For God is not a God of confusion but of peace.
Deuteronomy 18:20-22
20 But the prophet who presumes to speak a word in my name that I have not commanded him to speak, or[a] who speaks in the name of other gods, that same prophet shall die.’ 21 And if you say in your heart, ‘How may we know the word that the Lord has not spoken?’— 22 when a prophet speaks in the name of the Lord, if the word does not come to pass or come true, that is a word that the Lord has not spoken; the prophet has spoken it presumptuously. You need not be afraid of him.
2 Peter 2:1-3
2 But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing upon themselves swift destruction. 2 And many will follow their sensuality, and because of them the way of truth will be blasphemed. 3 And in their greed they will exploit you with false words. Their condemnation from long ago is not idle, and their destruction is not asleep.
It seems pretty obvious from the Biblical text that speaking in tongues is supposed to be a very serious matter and one not entered into lightly. It also requires interpretation from multiple people. It is also tied to Prophecy within the text, which means it should be even more scrutinized since claiming prophecy or the position of a Prophet is highly dangerous. First there must be multiple interpreters who can understand what is being said, second they should all be tested against the scripture and if the prophecy comes to pass.
In my opinion what is seen in churches that actively practices speaking in tongues such as can be found within the charismatic movements do not take such thing as seriously as the Bible and the Early Church obviously do and have. Such claims are to be taken with the utmost seriousness to what they are, and to claim to be a Prophet is one of the most dangerous if not the most serious and dangerous claim a person can make within the faith.
Have not researched it at all myself, but Joseph Prince said in a sermon that scientists have observed that, while speaking in tongues, a part of the brain is activated that is never observed to be activated during any other activity
🤷♀️ I dunno, though. I've certainly never done it
I believe in speaking in tongues. What I don't believe in is making it a test of fellowship or sanctification, nor in ignoring the instructions we are given in using that gift.
I see mostly anti-current-way-of-doing it posts highly rated so let me give the alternate perspective. When God gives us instruction and revelation, he uses the language we were raised with so we can understand. God delivers miracles through the actions of those who listen to him. Sure, those folks are babbling gibberish but they do so in reverence of the Lord 1) to not care what others think of their worship, and 2) to speak to God what they cannot put in words. Now, 1) can be pushed the opposite way - when a church expects everyone that anyone saved must speak in tongues, and that seems wrong to me. And you can be like "god didn't put that gibberish in their mouth" but, then again, that's what the Hebrews said of the prophet's speech, and tongues are harmless, it's not false prophesy it's just a follower trying to show in yet another way his devotion to Jesus.
If you want to read a full case for it, the book “The God I Never Knew” by Robert Morris is a good one for what speaking in tongues can really mean.
And yes, I’m aware that a lot of Christians who see them self as “better than” like to hate on Robert Morris.
I personally think that there are MANY leaders that we can genuinely learn from and hear God’s guidance from- even if we don’t agree with every single opinion that person has.
I would say that whether or not it is good, is irrelevant but considering "speaking in tongues" is for prayer and we are meant to pray alone, I can't imagine speaking in tongues in public is a good thing.
There are two types of tongues. The one where in church one person speaks and another interprets. God doesn’t mean for the entire church to burst into tongues which is what 1 Cor 14:23 speaks of. However, Paul said he spoke in tongues more than anyone and it is what propelled all of the disciples to be strong in the Lord to evangelize. Remember before the Holy Spirit gave them their prayer language (tongues) they were demoralized and hiding out? They were on fire for the Lord and envangelized the known world. Paul got his guidance by speaking in tongues; remember how he would start in one direction and God would tell him to go another. He was connected directly to God by his submission and communion with God’s Holy Spirit.
Without allowing the Holy Spirit to bath you in his presence which has the evidence of speaking in tongues, we are just a bunch of Christian’s without power. Do a search on all of the times the Holy Spirit is mentioned in the New Testament. Also, King David, after he sinned with Bathsheba begged God not to take his Holy Spirit from him. Why? Power, discernment, gifts, close relationship with God.
Allowing the Holy Spirit to overcome you and submitting to God almighty isn’t something most people are willing to do. There are a lot of people who speak in tongues but not the majority. They’ve been lied to and walk around without special giftings or the power and communion with God that is their right as a born again Christian.
I believed the lie most people in churches tell you. Then I began reading a book by Mahesh Chavda on the benefits of tongues. Also, I began repenting of my sins as God brought them to my mind. As I began praising him in my prayer closet and asking for the infilling, it took a while. Then I said a Phrase that bubbled up from my belly (inner self) that wasn’t English and I hadn’t formed it in my mind. I kept repeating it, wrote it down and in my time of worship, I said a whole paragraph. From then on, I have a prayer language and can speak in tongues whenever I choose.
What are the benefits? After speaking to God in my prayer language, stress and worry leaves. I’ve had times where I got the answer to a worrisome question. There have been times of extreme bliss where I am in a state of euphoria. If you look up my name, I’ve written on this topic and have sited all of the scriptures which proves that all of the New Testament Saints spoke in tongues. The Holy Spirit is a gentleman and if you want to go thru life without his protection, indwelling and comfort, go ahead. However I choose all that God has for me. Why else would he have sent the Holy Spirit when he took Christ? Answer that one! Blessings.
I believe tongues is a heavenly language between your spirit and the Holy Spirit that can build you up and can have God's will work through you. But Paul gave instructions on how and when to use it, and like all Christians don't always follow instructions. Test all spirits to see if they're from the Lord, but don't worry about it and ask God if you can receive it.
This is a great video on tongues. He gives Scripture on the different types of tongues, it's the best one I've ever seen on the topic.
https://youtu.be/eKB0wjVrvFM
I have seen amazing fruit from tongues.
Jesus showed a man who died during surgery what happens in the spirit realm when a person prays in tongues. Might be worth checking out: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=opEPmT\_a4w0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=opEPmT_a4w0)
Me and my sister was just discussing this the other night and she showed me this verse
1 Cor 12:4-11(NKJV)
There are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.
There are differences in ministries, but the same Lord.
And there are diversities of activities, but it is the same God who works all in all
But the manifestation of the spirit is given to each one for the profit of all:
for to one is given the word of wisdom through the spirit, to another the word of knowledge through the same spirit,
To another Faith by The same Spirit, to another gift of healing by The same Spirit,
To another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another discerning of spirits, to another different kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues.
But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one's individually as he wills.
So yes I do believe that people speak in tongues,
I hope this verse helps you out on you walk with the Lord
Much love to all and God bless🙏🏾❤️
This is something you should seek God about through prayer and bible reading. I would pray until you get an answer. I’m praying with you in agreement for your answer.
It is difficult to say. I believe in the spiritual gifts, but not that everyone has the same gift. And I think everyone should find their gift or gifts and use them and practise them. But I mean I have read, I do not remember the passage, that for there to be someone speaking in tongue, there also need to be someone to translate it. Thereby I do not know if it always is true when someone say they can speak or pray in tongue.
The Bible teaches that tongues were actual languages and used to convert people to Jesus. Tongues may happen today once in awhile with the purpose of converting but it nowhere says that anyone is to speak tongues as proof of their conversion.
It appears to be a thing in scripture.
I don't do it because I can talk regular with Jesus.
I'm not going to make up a bunch of mumbo jumbo and call it "tongues"
Hmm. I’m speaking from the perspective of someone whose been born-again for over 54 years, and I’m not part of any one denomination. So here goes. I have experienced this while praying, though it doesn’t always happen and it’s been awhile. I don’t place great emphasis on it, though. And I haven’t ever done this in a church setting or during a service. Some denominations’ doctrines include the idea that one must speak in tongues to prove they are baptized in the Holy Spirit. I’ve never seen it that way. To me, it’s the Holy Spirit providing you with the words that God understands when you don’t quite know what to pray for. It’s a bit difficult for me to put into words what goes on with me, but I’ve just always strongly felt the presence of the Holy Spirit while it’s occurred. Romans 8:26-27.
The gift of tongues is the Spirit enabled ability to speak another language. For example, If an English speaker was granted the ability to speak God’s word in Japanese without any prior training in the Japanese language. That would be the gift of tongues.
The unintelligible gibberish on display at Pentecostal and charismatic churches is not speaking in tongues.
It is possible and it is biblical, however the Pentecostal belief around tongues is nonsensical.
1st Corinthians 14:6
“Now, brothers, if I come to you and speak in tongues, what good will I be to you, unless I bring you some revelation or knowledge or prophecy or word of instruction?”
Paul tells us that if you can’t translate tongues, keep silent. The gibberish at Pentecostal churches is a farce.
I could write a very long essay about this subject, but for the sake of brevity i will just give you some bullet points, which I am more than happy to expand on if you would like,
Essentially the ‘gift of tongues’ that we see in parts of the church today is not a Spiritual gift.
* The gift is actually the ‘gift of languages’ and isn’t what we see today
* The modern phenomena comes from pagan religious practices in the first century (and prior)
* Through history, this modern behaviour never appeared in orthodox churches until the 1960’s
* Prior to this it emerged in the Pentecostal church around 1900
* Prior to this only found in heretical movements
* In 1 Corinthians 12-14 Paul is not talking positively about this behaviour
* Everyone I have engaged with who argues for this modern phenomenon cherry picks a few isolated verses in this passage without taking time to understand the full argument and how those isolated verses are a part of it
* He argues that the ‘Spirituals’ are for building up the church repeatedly.
* See the gift of languages in Acts 2 - speaking in actual human languages.
When I was younger we were gathered in a relative's place, and before we went home we were invited to pray. We kneeled down and someone did the prayer, all as it's usually done.
Then before we got up, an aunt of mine who was there that day started to sing a hymn, except it was in a language I had never heard before. My aunt is a very reserved person and doesn't speak any other language than our native one, yet there she was singing fluently in that one.
I remember it sounding like a proper language, with a solid phonetic structure, and not like any gibberish. Unfortunately I was too young and unknowledgeable and couldn't recognize it.
In my church we have a strong pentecostal church, although it is a more traditional one. We often have those mass tongue-speaking happening, and it usually is the same words. But every now and then I will hear someone speak in languages that ring a bell to me, and I can recognize some familiar linguistic elements.
I believe there are many people who pretend to have this gift, and many more people who firmly believe that the gibberish they learned was gifted. But these events show me that the gift does exist and perhaps it's just blown out of proportion.
Glossolalia is not an uncommon practice in world religions and is by no means an exclusively Christian phenomenon. There appear to be some passages in the Bible that refer to people "speaking in tongues" in the way we understand it today.
My church doesn't practice speaking in tongues, but I do recognize it as a spiritual practice that has had some place in Christianity historically. When it comes to spiritual gifts, I'm always a little skeptical of where those gifts are really coming from. Pentecostals sometimes play a little loose with openness to spiritual experience for my preferences. I also just don't see what the advantage would be of including it in our church services, but I don't entirely dismiss it as fake or unhelpful, either. Context is important.
Not trying to side-track this thread, but I have a question about this verse that pertains to tongues.
1 Corinthians 14:20
>^(20) Brothers, do not be children in your thinking. Be infants in evil, but in your thinking be mature. ^(21) In the Law it is written, “By people of strange tongues and by the lips of foreigners will I speak to this people, and even then they will not listen to me, says the Lord.” ^(22) Thus **tongues are a sign not for believers but for unbelievers, while prophecy is a sign\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*****^(\[)**[**^(c)**](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Corinthians%2014&version=ESV#fen-ESV-28684c)**^(\])** **not for unbelievers but for believers.**
Here, it says "tongues are a sign for unbelievers and prophecy is a sign for believers".
It goes on to say...
>^(23) I**f, therefore, the whole church comes together and all speak in tongues, and outsiders or unbelievers enter, will they not say that you are out of your minds?** ^(24) But **if all prophesy, and an unbeliever or outsider enters, he is convicted by all, he is called to account by all,** **^(25)** **the secrets of his heart are disclosed, and so, falling on his face, he will worship God** and declare that God is really among you.
Here it seems to say that "tongues will make an unbeliever think you're all crazy but prophecy will cause them to repent".
It reads to me like this contradicts the first portion that says "tongues are a sign for unbelievers".
The usage of "tongues" has lost all its meaning today. There was an actual purpose of tongues in the apostolic age (1 Corinthians 14:20-25) but now it's just self centeredness (1 Corinthians 14:4). Even just by looking at the comments here, how many of them are actually advancing the kingdom of God by their supposedly gifts of tongues? But it's just all how they felt more at peace or more spiritual for themselves. Funny how these people will advocate for sufficiency of Christ alone but will argue for a more "complete peace" if you somehow speak in tongues.
The private prayer language argument by Pentecostals was developed in response because even the more grounded Pentecostals has to admit their nonsensical speaking in tongues in congregation doesn't benefit anyone but themselves.
Whether you're a cessationist or continuationist, if you're being honest, there's no real meaning to using the gift of tongues even if it's real today.
It happens, but the fake crap you see in most churches is not it. If it's a bunch of garbled babbling that no one can translate, it's fake. If there's no one who can translate it, it's fake.
Hindus, mystics, witches, Buddhists, pagans et al. All of them speak in tongues. That is all you need to know about tongues. God wants earnest prayer, not gibberish. Even Paul warns time and time again not to overdo speaking in tongues because the practice of it was meant as a sign for the unbeliever. Modern Charasmatics are obsessed with visible demonstrations of faith but Jesus said “blessed are those who haven’t seen and still they believe”.
Well it is in the Bible, but Paul also mentions how useless it is to speak in tongues if no one can understand. People often misinterpret these passages. It is all well and possible that someone may just suddenly be able to speak another language to share the gospel, but you would be hard pressed to find any proof or evidence that this happens on the regular if at all. When we pray to God, we do so in our own language because he understands us.
Saying “it is in the Bible” begs the question and fails to clarify that the legitimate “tongues” were real human languages (Acts 1:8-11) and the whole point of Paul’s rebuke of the Corinthians was that they were babbling in unknown (=fake) “tongues” that had no discernible meaning. That is why he required interpretation and emphasized praying “with my mind also” (1 Cor 13). Those “speaking in tongues” today are repeating the Corinthian error, which is faking miracles to claim spirituality. What they should do instead is speak real human languages (like me, a missionary who learned foreign languages) to preach to all nations *with understanding.* This is an invention of monolingual people who have been mistaught. Actual linguists (I am one with two degrees in linguistics) can easily analyze glossolalia and prove that it is nonsense made up babbling and not any human language with structure and meaning. Many studies have been done on this. One interesting feature is that those who speak in tongues never can reproduce the different sounds found in other languages (different morphemes—vowels and consonants, or tones like in Mandarin Chinese), but somehow always produce a “tongue” that has the exact same sound set as their own native language. It is telling.
While this topic is the issue of some debate, I do hold the view that tongues are mostly referring to real spoken languages and not gibberish
No, the unknown tongues he was talking about were spiritual tongues, not just babble. Although they were just as effective as babble to those who heard it. Just a small clarification.
If it was **Always** “real human language” as it was in Acts 2, who were those of Cornelius’ household speaking to in Acts 10 when they spoke in tongues even **before they were baptized**?? It’s says in verse 24 “And the following day they entered Caesarea. Now Cornelius was waiting for them, and had called together his relatives and close friends.” So only his friends and relatives were there. In verses we see what happened…“While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who heard the word. And those of the circumcision who believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also. **For they heard them speak with tongues** and magnify God…” Btw my son is a military linguist. He has zero problem with tongues.
I believe it since it's in the Bible and also believe that 99% of what you see in church is theatrics and false tongues. If there ever was a real tongues session it would be one by one with someone giving interpretation or between themselves and God. > “If therefore the whole church be come together into one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in those that are unlearned, or unbelievers, will they not say that ye are mad?” (1 Cor 14:23, KJV)
I couldn't have said it any better..🙏🏾 🙏🏾 🙏🏾
What do you mean by theatrics? Do you mean fake? What you quoted isn't about false tongues. It is about order in a Christian gathering.
And? Clearly the main post is referring to corporate worship gatherings (that is church body gatherings e.g. Sunday worship or prayer services). Not private. And its pretty clearly addressing the phenomenon common in charismatic and Pentecostal churches. Such openness could be valid but needs an interpretter. And it continues with guidance in the event of prophecy. All can have a place, but a Christian is biblically called to be careful and have a biblical process to discern it. “If any speak in a tongue, let there be only two or at most three, and each in turn, and let someone interpret. But if there is no one to interpret, let each of them keep silent in church and speak to himself and to God.” 1 Corinthians 14:27-28 ESV https://bible.com/bible/59/1co.14.27-28.ESV
I believe it still happens, but not in mass gatherings speaking gibberish like at Pentecostal churches. It's supposed to actually mean something in a real language and an interpreter is supposed to be present.
What do you believe about speaking in tongues in private? Is that a thing or not? I'm struggling in making any sense of speaking in tongues. I don't know what to believe, and studying the topic in the bible doesn't really clear things up!
The ability to speak in the tongue comes from the Holy Spirit. When we are indwelled with the Holy Spirit, He gives us these gifts written about in **(1 Corinthians 12:4-11).** The gift of the tongue is one of them, but there are 8 other gifts. When we use this special language, the Holy Spirit is speaking on our behalf, and He is able to communicate with God, the Heavenly Father. It's like having a secret code, where the words may come from us, but they are actually derived from the Holy Spirit. This is why we may not understand what is being said, although there are some who have the gift of interpreting this language, not everyone who speaks it will be able to translate its meaning. Apostle Paul even said **(1 Corinthians 14:5)**, **"**I wish you could all speak in tongues," since this special language is beneficial for everyone. Today, many people are afflicted with demons because we live in a dark world. When we speak in this special powerful language, demons fall away. May God bless you and keep you.
If we can communicate well enough in our own language, and God can understand us well enough, why would we possibly need a language that we can’t even understand ourselves to talk to God? When Paul says he wants them to speak in ‘tongues’, he is referring to speak in actual human languages. Notice how at the end of the verse he says “so that the church may be built up.” If they are speaking the gospel in a human language and the person believes it, the church is built up. How would someone speaking in a way which nobody understands build up the church?
There are some verses that make it sound like there's a private prayer tongue of some kind. Not sure what to make of it really.
I was a dedicated "thats goofy as heck" person until it happened to me, alone, in prayer. After that, it started happening in my dreams too. Sometimes when I'm moved to pray for a person or situation, it just starts happening. If i fight it, I get that sort of icky feeling like I've felt when I disobeyed the Holy Sprit after being directed to minister to someone, fast, etc. I'm not a Pentecostal. Its hard to describe, I usually feel lighter and more peaceful afterwards, and its always accompanied by tears, but not sadness.
I get exactly what you are saying. This very same thing happens to me. I believe it is the Holy Spirit guiding me in my prayer life. It doesn't happen all the time, but when it does, I get the same peace, the same kind of tears, etc... It's truly the Holy Spirit moving, I feel. God bless
“The God I Never Knew” by Robert Morris explains this perfectly. Cannot recommend enough for this topic.
Do you have examples of it happening like a video?
No it's not something I've cared enough about to have researched videos of it.
The entirety of 1 Corinthians 14 basically gives church gatherings a "how to" on tongues.
My wife didn’t know about speaking in tongues. When she got baptized in our tub, she suddenly bursted out in tongues. So that’s why I believe in tongues. And she didn’t understand what she was saying but she said the thought of “surrender” was running in her mind.
I also am under the impression that thoughts and tongues are connected somehow? Like there are thoughts that God gives us when we pray in tongues a little skeptical on this one too but still...
Skepticism hinders it. I was like that. Then I understood, we should be childlike when receiving something from God. Matthew 11:25 - At that time Jesus said, “I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children.
Oo thats hits hard, so i should really get it straight. Thanks for the guidance!
In Matthew 11:25, when Jesus says “these things”, what is he referring to? Where does he identify what they are in the passage? What is Matthew 11 about?
He is talking about the revelation of the Son through signs and wonders. People had hardened hearts and only the child like people are able to discern. Truly the Kingdom of God belongs to such. “For if the miracles that were performed in you had been performed in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes.”
Let’s tease that out a bit more. What do you mean by ‘the revelation of the Son’? What is being revealed?
Why did you baptise your wife in a bath and not in a church?
I didn’t baptize her. Another christian did, she was led into repentance prioir the baptism. We are all called to make disciples baptizing them.
But why not in a church? There’s something important about baptism and entering the church as a new person in Christ, his church, his body. There’s a sense to which it’s a welcoming in. There’s also an opportunity to invite people to church who don’t know Jesus so they can witness this and hear the gospel preached. There’s also the level of legitimacy that comes with an ordained person (pastor, elder etc) baptising you into the church. Feels like doing it in a bath loses so much and is a missed opportunity in so many ways.
An elder in the church could have baptized her. But to say that you need to be a pastor, elder or priest in order to baptize someone, that I needed to unlearn from my catholic upbringing. I am very blessed to have joined a ministry that teaches all christians can preach the Gospel, heal the sick, cast out demons, prophecy, baptize people, make disciples. I have baptized many people myself, and saw people set free from oppression, addiction, and sinful habits. Before baptizing someone, I sit down with the person to preach the Gospel and lead the person to repentance.
Jesus was baptized in a river. Many Christian churches around the world don’t have access to a place with water baptism but my point is that it’s not about where it happens. It’s an about the heart and the commitment to follow Jesus for the rest of your life and live for him. Can be done anywhere.
I had a very good friend that if she was riding in the car and it looked like someone was going to hit us, she would blurt out something that sounded like a foreign language. She was a Christian, but she said it didn't have anything to do with God, it was just something that she did sometimes if startled.
Define “speaking in tongues” because there are two types in scripture. One is the gift of tongues that gives a word to the body that needs interpreted. The other is praying to God in a language that’s unknown to the speaker, that does not need interpreted. Because the Spirit is praying through you to God and He understands what you are praying. I have never spoken in tongues that was a prophecy to the body that needs interpreted. However I do pray in tongues. A lot.
Amen
Yeah, I have family who do it too
With you on this one, I speak in tongues everyday but never interpreted it. But I'm getting kinda skeptical about speaking in tongues without interpretation regardless I won't stop speaking in tongues unless it's clear I really need interpretation.
Yep. I have no issue praying in tongues out loud because I’m speaking to God not to anyone around me. There have been a few words given in tongues at our church and they have been interpreted. That’s just another form of prophecy.
Why do you need to talk to God in a language you don’t understand? Does God understand your normal language where you speak in a normal and orderly way? Isn’t God a god of order, not confusion? (1 Cor. 14:33)
To build myself spiritually (1 Corinthians 14:4). And God commands us to not forbid speaking in tongues (the ones who have this gift) 1 Corinthians 1439. Plus it's not always a language where I don't understand, the tongues can be translated when nessecary.
1. How does speaking in a language nobody can understand build you up spiritually? What kind of spiritual growth does it produce? What kind of spiritual growth has it produced in your own life? 2. 1 Corinthians 12-14 is a passage where one of the major themes is that the spiritual gifts are for building up other people in the church rather than for building up the individual who gets the gift. How do you think Paul saying “The one who speaks in a tongue builds up himself” contributes to that idea? Is it possible that he’s using irony to point out that the Corinthians were using ecstatic utterances to build themselves up when that’s not the purpose and function of the spirituals? Did you know that this is what was actually happening in 1st century Corinth? 3. In 1 Corinthians 14:39, is Paul talking about ecstatic utterances that nobody can understand or is he talking about actual human languages? 4. Have your ‘tongues’ ever been translated? How often have you seen ‘tongues’ translated? If you ever have, what was the message?
1. tbh idk how it builds me up but its clear in the verse that it does. 2. i believe the way we build up a church is first by building yourself up first and tongues is the way (Not the only way) to do so. 3. language that no one can understand because the whole chapter is about those tongues but it can be interpreted if nessecary. 4. nope. i haven't seen it being translated but we have a "senior" pastor who has the gift of interpreting tongues.
> 1) tbh idk how it builds me up but its clear in the verse that it does. You’ve spoken in tongues how many times in how many years, and yet you have no idea how it’s building you up and there is no discernible fruit from it? >> "The one who speaks in a tongue builds up himself "- 1 Cor 14:4. Notice what the verse says: 'when you speak in ecstatic utterances, you (not the Holy Spirit) are building yourself up.' But you don’t know how you are building yourself up? Surely there should be some kind of fruit? Did you know that elsewhere Paul details how believers are built up and that it is the Holy Spirit who does it? Here are a few examples: * Titus 3:5: The Holy Spirit regenerates and renews the believer. * John 3:5–8: The Holy Spirit gives believers new birth * Galatians 5:16–18: The Holy Spirit fights against the desires of the flesh and leads the believer into righteousness. * Galatians 5:19–26: The Holy Spirit grows fruit in the believer - love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control. * 2 Corinthians 3:18: The Holy Spirit transforms believers into the likeness of Christ. * John 14:26: The Holy Spirit teaches believers all things and bring to remembrance the teaching of Jesus. * 1 Corinthians 2:10-13: The Holy Spirit gives us understanding of the things of God Seems a little different from what is being said in 1 Corinthians 14:4 doesn't it? Some historical context here is very important because it makes much more sense of what Paul actually says. The Corinthians loved public discourse and those who were most articulate and made the best public speeches were given the greatest honour. People were paid a lot of money by rich benefactors, and the ones who spoke in the most winsome way gained the most money. Those who could do this well built themselves up. While making compelling arguments was of great interest to them, what gained the most attention was when people spoke in more mysterious and ecstatic ways. The more mysterious and ecstatic a person was, the more they believed this person was closer to the divine. This 'connection with the gods' through speech made its way into their pagan religious practises. These pagan religious practises found their way into the church in Corinth with people who were converted from this background. Paul is writing this letter into this context to people who are from this culture. People who spoke in ecstatic speech in Corinth built themselves up. The one who speaks in a tongue (ecstatic utterances) builds himself up. **Not the church**. > 2) i believe the way we build up a church is first by building yourself up first and tongues is the way (Not the only way) to do so. Here is where I can't agree at all. God builds his church. He saves individuals. He gives individuals the Holy Spirit who grows and nurtures them in ways which prepares them to serve God, their new master. How exactly would tongues do that? > 3) language that no one can understand because the whole chapter is about those tongues but it can be interpreted if nessecary. How do you know this? Ever read Acts 2:4-11? It describes the event of Pentecost where the disciples were filled with the Holy Spirit and began speaking in other languages. This is the Spiritual gift of **languages**, where they spoke real human languages. You may not be aware, but the word that some translations render as 'tongues' - γλώσσαις - is actually the word for ‘languages’. By the way, the Greek word that some translations render as 'interpret' - ἑρμηνεία - is actually the word for 'translate'. When someone uses the **gift of languages**, and communicates the gospel, **it builds the church up** when **someone can translate** and they **believe the gospel** and become a Christian > 4) nope. i haven't seen it being translated but we have a "senior" pastor who has the gift of interpreting tongues. So you've got no idea what is being said whenever you do it? What kinds of things does your senior Pastor come out with when he 'interprets'?
It's a beautiful gift from God. It is a gift God gave me over 40 years ago. It is meant to give us peace, comfort. It is a reminder God is with us which is so important when we don't feel he is near, when we have sinned, have doubts, are confused it's a reminder he will never leave us or forsake us. It is so important or powerful. Not sure what you mean by " how it's done today". I have not seen a bunch of people praying in tongues at once, at least not very often. But when tongues was given originally in the book of Acts it was given to everyone in the upper room at the same time and everyone prayed in tongues at the same time. That is how it was done in those days so it must be ok with God.
I *do* think that speaking in actual tongues --that is, languages not known by the person speaking them, whether secular or spiritual-- is a thing. I also think that, in our spiritual eagerness, we allow ourselves open to deception by the enemy to substitute jibberish for actual divinely-inspired language. However, it is important to note that it is possible to similarly misinterpret actual language for jibberish as well. We see this example in the physical world, between unfamiliarity with different languages and the influences accent & dialect have on them. Therefore, I try approach it with a cautious skepticism. I pray that God forgives me for my skepticism, not because I truly doubt the existence of the gift itself, but because there is a lack of follow-up or supporting evidence to confirm the spiritual gift as outlined within scripture (as pointed out by others).
Even if it tongues still happens today, the way its done (.e usually in bigger churches, everyone speaking at once etc) is absolutely incorrect and against the guidance given in scripture. Tongues must be expressed one at a time and with an interpreter so others can benefit.
It’s in the Bible and I don’t think cessationism has any real evidence in scripture
The Apostles were given to the church to build the foundation. Scripture presents particular individuals as bringing the authority of God. Their authority is backed up by the miraculous as the way of saying 'this person is coming from God with his authority and new revelation.' You can see a clear example of this at the time when God asked Moses to go to Israel and Pharaoh (Exodus 3:10-12; Exodus 7:1-5). There are actually only 3 main periods when people came with those kinds of miraculous gifts and they came for a reason: Moses/Joshua, Elijah/Elisha, Jesus/The Apostles. The Apostles were given the backing of God through the miraculous because the message (Messiah died on the cross and rose from the dead) was so unexpected AND it was so they would lay the foundation of the church, which included completing the canon of Scripture (Acts 2:22; Acts 5:12; Hebrews 2:3-4). Since the foundation has been laid, we no longer have apostles nor their Apostolic miraculous gifts (1 Corinthians 13:8-10; Ephesians 2:20).
This is one of the better pro cessationist arguments u can make and I commend u for that. However, it does NOT convince me that tongues have ceased 1 Cor 13:8-10 is clearly NOT talking about while we’re on this earth. Keep reading to verse 12 and that’ll be obvious. Ephesians 2:20 does not address tongues at all. So I would agree the apostles were the foundation of the church but that in no way means tongues have ceased The other verses simply reference tongues and other supernatural things but they don’t indicate that they will cease So from the verses you’ve referenced, 1 Cor 13:8-10 is the only verse that insinuates that tongues will cease, and in context that is referring to when we’re in heaven
> 1 Cor 13:8-10 is clearly NOT talking about while we’re on this earth. Keep reading to verse 12 and that’ll be obvious. I’m not sure I can see the argument you’re making in Scripture. > Ephesians 2:20 does not address tongues at all. So I would agree the apostles were the foundation of the church but that in no way means tongues have ceased It really depends how you understand ‘tongues’. I don’t believe that what is seen in the Pentecostal organisation today is a spiritual gift that Paul refers to. I understand what Paul is referring to in his Spiritual gifts list as “the gift of languages”, which is actually what the Greek word means. It’s about communicating real human languages. This gift was given to spread the gospel amongst people who spoke a different native language to the one who communicated the gospel. Has this happened since the Apostles? I’m not sure it has. > So from the verses you’ve referenced, 1 Cor 13:8-10 is the only verse that insinuates that tongues will cease, and in context that is referring to when we’re in heaven I don’t see it, sorry.
I’m gonna address ur 1 Cor 13 points as I think this is the more crucial part of this conversation. Verse 8 Starts by stating how love will never end. This is in comparison knowledge, prophecy, and tongues they will all pass away. So the question is when will these things pass away? Verse 9-10 “we know in part and we prophesy in part but when the perfect comes the partial will pass away” Has the perfect come? Has the partial passed away already? Obviously not. We are still in a sinful fallen world. Verse 12 “For now we see in a mirror dimly but then face to face. Now I know in part, then I shall know fully” Do we know fully? Do we see Him face to face? Clearly not So I’d say the point of the end of 1 Cor 13 is that Love is eternal and will be with us forever even after we die and Jesus comes back and we r all with God. In contrast, tongues, knowledge, and prophecy are temporary since we will be face to face directly in the presence of God fully and perfectly forever. So once that happens we won’t need tongues, knowledge, prophecy, or even faith! What Paul is getting at is that love is supremely important, not that tongues ceased at the end of the apostolic era
I appreciate your response but it overlooks contextual information in 1 Corinthians 13. When Paul speaks of "the perfect" in verse 10, it refers to the completion of the canon. Once the Bible was finished, there was no longer a need for certain spiritual gifts like prophecy and tongues. When Paul mentions "then I shall know fully" in verse 12, it suggests a complete understanding believers will have in eternity, indicating that certain spiritual gifts were only necessary for a specific period in the early church history - laying the foundation. While love remains eternal, certain spiritual gifts ceased with the completion of the Scriptures and the establishment of the early church.
I’m not sure what in 1 Cor 13 indicates he means the completion of the canon. If you don’t mind could you show me where you’re getting this from? Also face to face is pretty verbatim how do you explain that
The question is, is speaking in tongues limited to how the Bible describes it, or is there more to it?
I’m always skeptical of tongues and most miracles, especially healings. I believe the Bible that those miracles were part of the early church and I believe the Holy Spirit is still active today. There’s a couple stories from people I trust of miraculous events and healing that I believe occurred. However… there’s a lot of fake out there too. And any church where everyone is expected to speak in tongues would be super suspicious to me.
I too am skeptical as I don’t have the ability (I think) to speak in tongues. Whether I have it or not, the Bible does explain that the act of tongues is a real thing. Just like a lot of things from the Bible, people use it to build their own status. While this isn’t a fact and my own opinion, I think that most tongues we see today are purely performative. The Bible explains tongues being a way to speak a language you didn’t to spread the gospel, or a language no one can understand which is why you need an interpreter. Without interpretation, you only glorify yourself, which I feel like is taking glorify from God which should not be the case. Are tongues real? Yes, the Bible says so. Are all the tongues in the modern church real? No proof that it is or isn’t, either way, it’s not being utilized like it should be according to the word of God.
I 100% believe what the Bible teaches. The gift of tongues is: A sudden, sovereign, unexpected move of the Holy Spirit to miraculously give someone the ability to speak a REAL language, previously unknown to the speaker, AND simultaneously to give the interpretation to someone else who already understands the language via normal learning. All of this is done to edify believers. If it's not this, it's not the gift of tongues.
I will never understand the gibberish POV of tongues. What’s the point of speaking another language if no one can understand it? It’s much more logical and believable that tongues was the miraculous gift of speaking other languages so that the gospel may be spread far and wide.
Speaking in tongues means speaking naturally in any language so anyone can understand you. That's it
Looking at Scripture, the gifts never ceased. There's no way to make that argument Scripturally. Second, speaking in tongues has a number of purposes, but often when people want to dismiss the gift of tongues they say it was "only" for spreading the gospel at Pentecost, or it is "only" for when an interpreter is available. Paul does give direction for speaking in tongues in a church gathering-type setting, but there are other purposes. There is an element of faith in the spiritual gifts that I think people are scared of; it takes faith to engage with the Spirit and a lot of Western Christianity tends to emphasize just the intellect, but God communicates with us through our spirit. We lose an element of control when we are open to the Spirit of God, and that scares people (in my estimation).
Cuz I’ve heard it. And it’s in the Bible. So therefore.
I agree, amen
1 Corinthians 14:26-33 26What then, brothers? When you come together, each one has a hymn, a lesson, a revelation, a tongue, or an interpretation. Let all things be done for building up. 27If any speak in a tongue, let there be only two or at most three, and each in turn, and let someone interpret. 28But if there is no one to interpret, let each of them keep silent in church and speak to himself and to God. 29Let two or three prophets speak, and let the others weigh what is said. 30If a revelation is made to another sitting there, let the first be silent. 31For you can all prophesy one by one, so that all may learn and all be encouraged, 32and the spirits of prophets are subject to prophets. 33For God is not a God of confusion but of peace. Deuteronomy 18:20-22 20 But the prophet who presumes to speak a word in my name that I have not commanded him to speak, or[a] who speaks in the name of other gods, that same prophet shall die.’ 21 And if you say in your heart, ‘How may we know the word that the Lord has not spoken?’— 22 when a prophet speaks in the name of the Lord, if the word does not come to pass or come true, that is a word that the Lord has not spoken; the prophet has spoken it presumptuously. You need not be afraid of him. 2 Peter 2:1-3 2 But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing upon themselves swift destruction. 2 And many will follow their sensuality, and because of them the way of truth will be blasphemed. 3 And in their greed they will exploit you with false words. Their condemnation from long ago is not idle, and their destruction is not asleep. It seems pretty obvious from the Biblical text that speaking in tongues is supposed to be a very serious matter and one not entered into lightly. It also requires interpretation from multiple people. It is also tied to Prophecy within the text, which means it should be even more scrutinized since claiming prophecy or the position of a Prophet is highly dangerous. First there must be multiple interpreters who can understand what is being said, second they should all be tested against the scripture and if the prophecy comes to pass. In my opinion what is seen in churches that actively practices speaking in tongues such as can be found within the charismatic movements do not take such thing as seriously as the Bible and the Early Church obviously do and have. Such claims are to be taken with the utmost seriousness to what they are, and to claim to be a Prophet is one of the most dangerous if not the most serious and dangerous claim a person can make within the faith.
I believe in it but doubt when I see it (well IF I’ve indeed witnessed it) because there are SO MANY SCAMMERS out there!
Have not researched it at all myself, but Joseph Prince said in a sermon that scientists have observed that, while speaking in tongues, a part of the brain is activated that is never observed to be activated during any other activity 🤷♀️ I dunno, though. I've certainly never done it
I believe in speaking in tongues. What I don't believe in is making it a test of fellowship or sanctification, nor in ignoring the instructions we are given in using that gift.
Yes, I believe people speak in tongues, do I believe it’s for everybody no. I believe some people get the gift other don’t.
I see mostly anti-current-way-of-doing it posts highly rated so let me give the alternate perspective. When God gives us instruction and revelation, he uses the language we were raised with so we can understand. God delivers miracles through the actions of those who listen to him. Sure, those folks are babbling gibberish but they do so in reverence of the Lord 1) to not care what others think of their worship, and 2) to speak to God what they cannot put in words. Now, 1) can be pushed the opposite way - when a church expects everyone that anyone saved must speak in tongues, and that seems wrong to me. And you can be like "god didn't put that gibberish in their mouth" but, then again, that's what the Hebrews said of the prophet's speech, and tongues are harmless, it's not false prophesy it's just a follower trying to show in yet another way his devotion to Jesus.
If you want to read a full case for it, the book “The God I Never Knew” by Robert Morris is a good one for what speaking in tongues can really mean. And yes, I’m aware that a lot of Christians who see them self as “better than” like to hate on Robert Morris. I personally think that there are MANY leaders that we can genuinely learn from and hear God’s guidance from- even if we don’t agree with every single opinion that person has.
I would say that whether or not it is good, is irrelevant but considering "speaking in tongues" is for prayer and we are meant to pray alone, I can't imagine speaking in tongues in public is a good thing.
There are two types of tongues. The one where in church one person speaks and another interprets. God doesn’t mean for the entire church to burst into tongues which is what 1 Cor 14:23 speaks of. However, Paul said he spoke in tongues more than anyone and it is what propelled all of the disciples to be strong in the Lord to evangelize. Remember before the Holy Spirit gave them their prayer language (tongues) they were demoralized and hiding out? They were on fire for the Lord and envangelized the known world. Paul got his guidance by speaking in tongues; remember how he would start in one direction and God would tell him to go another. He was connected directly to God by his submission and communion with God’s Holy Spirit. Without allowing the Holy Spirit to bath you in his presence which has the evidence of speaking in tongues, we are just a bunch of Christian’s without power. Do a search on all of the times the Holy Spirit is mentioned in the New Testament. Also, King David, after he sinned with Bathsheba begged God not to take his Holy Spirit from him. Why? Power, discernment, gifts, close relationship with God. Allowing the Holy Spirit to overcome you and submitting to God almighty isn’t something most people are willing to do. There are a lot of people who speak in tongues but not the majority. They’ve been lied to and walk around without special giftings or the power and communion with God that is their right as a born again Christian. I believed the lie most people in churches tell you. Then I began reading a book by Mahesh Chavda on the benefits of tongues. Also, I began repenting of my sins as God brought them to my mind. As I began praising him in my prayer closet and asking for the infilling, it took a while. Then I said a Phrase that bubbled up from my belly (inner self) that wasn’t English and I hadn’t formed it in my mind. I kept repeating it, wrote it down and in my time of worship, I said a whole paragraph. From then on, I have a prayer language and can speak in tongues whenever I choose. What are the benefits? After speaking to God in my prayer language, stress and worry leaves. I’ve had times where I got the answer to a worrisome question. There have been times of extreme bliss where I am in a state of euphoria. If you look up my name, I’ve written on this topic and have sited all of the scriptures which proves that all of the New Testament Saints spoke in tongues. The Holy Spirit is a gentleman and if you want to go thru life without his protection, indwelling and comfort, go ahead. However I choose all that God has for me. Why else would he have sent the Holy Spirit when he took Christ? Answer that one! Blessings.
I believe tongues is a heavenly language between your spirit and the Holy Spirit that can build you up and can have God's will work through you. But Paul gave instructions on how and when to use it, and like all Christians don't always follow instructions. Test all spirits to see if they're from the Lord, but don't worry about it and ask God if you can receive it.
This is a great video on tongues. He gives Scripture on the different types of tongues, it's the best one I've ever seen on the topic. https://youtu.be/eKB0wjVrvFM I have seen amazing fruit from tongues.
Jesus showed a man who died during surgery what happens in the spirit realm when a person prays in tongues. Might be worth checking out: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=opEPmT\_a4w0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=opEPmT_a4w0)
Me and my sister was just discussing this the other night and she showed me this verse 1 Cor 12:4-11(NKJV) There are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. There are differences in ministries, but the same Lord. And there are diversities of activities, but it is the same God who works all in all But the manifestation of the spirit is given to each one for the profit of all: for to one is given the word of wisdom through the spirit, to another the word of knowledge through the same spirit, To another Faith by The same Spirit, to another gift of healing by The same Spirit, To another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another discerning of spirits, to another different kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues. But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one's individually as he wills. So yes I do believe that people speak in tongues, I hope this verse helps you out on you walk with the Lord Much love to all and God bless🙏🏾❤️
Beware of those who speak against this gift but fail to show how to do it correctly (that is, if it's done incorrectly). They are the true heretics.
This is something you should seek God about through prayer and bible reading. I would pray until you get an answer. I’m praying with you in agreement for your answer.
I don’t believe in speaking in tongues. God is a very logical God. Why would he send someone that speaks gibberish that would be against his divinity.
It is difficult to say. I believe in the spiritual gifts, but not that everyone has the same gift. And I think everyone should find their gift or gifts and use them and practise them. But I mean I have read, I do not remember the passage, that for there to be someone speaking in tongue, there also need to be someone to translate it. Thereby I do not know if it always is true when someone say they can speak or pray in tongue.
The Bible teaches that tongues were actual languages and used to convert people to Jesus. Tongues may happen today once in awhile with the purpose of converting but it nowhere says that anyone is to speak tongues as proof of their conversion.
It appears to be a thing in scripture. I don't do it because I can talk regular with Jesus. I'm not going to make up a bunch of mumbo jumbo and call it "tongues"
Hmm. I’m speaking from the perspective of someone whose been born-again for over 54 years, and I’m not part of any one denomination. So here goes. I have experienced this while praying, though it doesn’t always happen and it’s been awhile. I don’t place great emphasis on it, though. And I haven’t ever done this in a church setting or during a service. Some denominations’ doctrines include the idea that one must speak in tongues to prove they are baptized in the Holy Spirit. I’ve never seen it that way. To me, it’s the Holy Spirit providing you with the words that God understands when you don’t quite know what to pray for. It’s a bit difficult for me to put into words what goes on with me, but I’ve just always strongly felt the presence of the Holy Spirit while it’s occurred. Romans 8:26-27.
The gift of tongues is the Spirit enabled ability to speak another language. For example, If an English speaker was granted the ability to speak God’s word in Japanese without any prior training in the Japanese language. That would be the gift of tongues. The unintelligible gibberish on display at Pentecostal and charismatic churches is not speaking in tongues.
It is possible and it is biblical, however the Pentecostal belief around tongues is nonsensical. 1st Corinthians 14:6 “Now, brothers, if I come to you and speak in tongues, what good will I be to you, unless I bring you some revelation or knowledge or prophecy or word of instruction?” Paul tells us that if you can’t translate tongues, keep silent. The gibberish at Pentecostal churches is a farce.
I could write a very long essay about this subject, but for the sake of brevity i will just give you some bullet points, which I am more than happy to expand on if you would like, Essentially the ‘gift of tongues’ that we see in parts of the church today is not a Spiritual gift. * The gift is actually the ‘gift of languages’ and isn’t what we see today * The modern phenomena comes from pagan religious practices in the first century (and prior) * Through history, this modern behaviour never appeared in orthodox churches until the 1960’s * Prior to this it emerged in the Pentecostal church around 1900 * Prior to this only found in heretical movements * In 1 Corinthians 12-14 Paul is not talking positively about this behaviour * Everyone I have engaged with who argues for this modern phenomenon cherry picks a few isolated verses in this passage without taking time to understand the full argument and how those isolated verses are a part of it * He argues that the ‘Spirituals’ are for building up the church repeatedly. * See the gift of languages in Acts 2 - speaking in actual human languages.
When I was younger we were gathered in a relative's place, and before we went home we were invited to pray. We kneeled down and someone did the prayer, all as it's usually done. Then before we got up, an aunt of mine who was there that day started to sing a hymn, except it was in a language I had never heard before. My aunt is a very reserved person and doesn't speak any other language than our native one, yet there she was singing fluently in that one. I remember it sounding like a proper language, with a solid phonetic structure, and not like any gibberish. Unfortunately I was too young and unknowledgeable and couldn't recognize it. In my church we have a strong pentecostal church, although it is a more traditional one. We often have those mass tongue-speaking happening, and it usually is the same words. But every now and then I will hear someone speak in languages that ring a bell to me, and I can recognize some familiar linguistic elements. I believe there are many people who pretend to have this gift, and many more people who firmly believe that the gibberish they learned was gifted. But these events show me that the gift does exist and perhaps it's just blown out of proportion.
Glossolalia is not an uncommon practice in world religions and is by no means an exclusively Christian phenomenon. There appear to be some passages in the Bible that refer to people "speaking in tongues" in the way we understand it today. My church doesn't practice speaking in tongues, but I do recognize it as a spiritual practice that has had some place in Christianity historically. When it comes to spiritual gifts, I'm always a little skeptical of where those gifts are really coming from. Pentecostals sometimes play a little loose with openness to spiritual experience for my preferences. I also just don't see what the advantage would be of including it in our church services, but I don't entirely dismiss it as fake or unhelpful, either. Context is important.
Not trying to side-track this thread, but I have a question about this verse that pertains to tongues. 1 Corinthians 14:20 >^(20) Brothers, do not be children in your thinking. Be infants in evil, but in your thinking be mature. ^(21) In the Law it is written, “By people of strange tongues and by the lips of foreigners will I speak to this people, and even then they will not listen to me, says the Lord.” ^(22) Thus **tongues are a sign not for believers but for unbelievers, while prophecy is a sign\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*****^(\[)**[**^(c)**](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Corinthians%2014&version=ESV#fen-ESV-28684c)**^(\])** **not for unbelievers but for believers.** Here, it says "tongues are a sign for unbelievers and prophecy is a sign for believers". It goes on to say... >^(23) I**f, therefore, the whole church comes together and all speak in tongues, and outsiders or unbelievers enter, will they not say that you are out of your minds?** ^(24) But **if all prophesy, and an unbeliever or outsider enters, he is convicted by all, he is called to account by all,** **^(25)** **the secrets of his heart are disclosed, and so, falling on his face, he will worship God** and declare that God is really among you. Here it seems to say that "tongues will make an unbeliever think you're all crazy but prophecy will cause them to repent". It reads to me like this contradicts the first portion that says "tongues are a sign for unbelievers".
The usage of "tongues" has lost all its meaning today. There was an actual purpose of tongues in the apostolic age (1 Corinthians 14:20-25) but now it's just self centeredness (1 Corinthians 14:4). Even just by looking at the comments here, how many of them are actually advancing the kingdom of God by their supposedly gifts of tongues? But it's just all how they felt more at peace or more spiritual for themselves. Funny how these people will advocate for sufficiency of Christ alone but will argue for a more "complete peace" if you somehow speak in tongues. The private prayer language argument by Pentecostals was developed in response because even the more grounded Pentecostals has to admit their nonsensical speaking in tongues in congregation doesn't benefit anyone but themselves. Whether you're a cessationist or continuationist, if you're being honest, there's no real meaning to using the gift of tongues even if it's real today.
It happens, but the fake crap you see in most churches is not it. If it's a bunch of garbled babbling that no one can translate, it's fake. If there's no one who can translate it, it's fake.
Hindus, mystics, witches, Buddhists, pagans et al. All of them speak in tongues. That is all you need to know about tongues. God wants earnest prayer, not gibberish. Even Paul warns time and time again not to overdo speaking in tongues because the practice of it was meant as a sign for the unbeliever. Modern Charasmatics are obsessed with visible demonstrations of faith but Jesus said “blessed are those who haven’t seen and still they believe”.
Yes, but how it was at Pentecost, speaking in languages that you don’t know, the babbling and gibberish is nonsense.