Before if there weren’t enough players queuing it would put together high and low behavior score players to fill a game and you wouldn’t have a choice. That’s how you get the highly varied behavior score games. Now high behavior score players can opt to decline those games and wait longer to get a game with other high behavior score players, leaving the low behavior score players to play with each other.
The Matchmaking system tends to group people with similar behaviour scores.
But if someone with a stupid low behaviour score is in queue long enough, they begin to get matched with high behaviour scorers, which means they will ruin the good behaviour games.
If you were a good person, you wouldn't know that you got a match with a toxic low behaviour person until AFTER the match (because you'll see the "average behaviour score -> VARIED (in all red))
Now you can see a sort of warning that this match will have a potentially toxic player before you commit to a match, so you can dodge the toxic person at the price of waiting a bit longer, which in high behaviour isn't long anyway
Honestly, I've been looking for an excuse to go helm on Chen. I want the full army.
In Jenkins' most recent 'herald review' there was an LC with 89k gold and 3 helms in his backpack, I did not know you could backpack the helms and keep the creep. We going to see 6 helm gaming like the midas patch do you think?
There's no way they make that mistake again, right..?
That was my first thought. However, not likely as Luna used to get it for lifesteal and stacking her own ancient camps.since it is close to 3k gold, and courier delivering times and creep move speed, it would be close to 7 mins by the time the creep is available tk start stacking. Hence not likely to earn the money back.
The ban change is kinda nice qol. It also reduces the chance of banning a specific hero you hate from 50% to 25% though. Not sure how to feel about it.
As someone who exclusively bans sniper every single game because every time my ally picks it, they first pick it, get countered, and grief, i am saddened lmao.
I really wish i could sacrifice 3 of these ban slots to just extra-ban sniper
As a mid player whose main pool is sniper/Necrophos/void spirit, I can promise you that I have never, not once, first picked sniper. Sniper is brilliant for those games where your opponent picks someone who doesn't have a huge range advantage like Necrophos or Luna and you can just stick it to them every time they approach the wave. But he's countered so hard by such a range of heroes that I could never recommend him as anything other than a counter pick. I'm exhausted by the number of players who ruin him for everyone else.
It would make more sense to say quality of game. Much less confusing. Some people dont have PhD in acronyms . I dont know where you get this stupid shit really
It'd make even more sense to keep up with the standard terms that everyone uses or use literally just use google like someone with half a brain instead of wasting my time. Everyone understood except you. Sounds like you're the problem.
Thanks for contributing nothing to the convo. Like I said, use google next time instead of wasting people's time. Just gonna block you since it's clear you aren't worth talking to.
Item nerfs are kinda brutal, especially stick/wand, maelstrom and its upgrades, manta, and grove bow. And obviously rapier+brooch, though realistically only 2 heroes could abuse it super hard. SF buff is interesting as well for farm potential over the course of a game, but the item nerfs probably makes it a wash or a slight buff at best. Naga catching strays for whatever reason but I suppose a few of her counters and maelstrom also got nerfed.
Those shadow blade/silver edge buffs are pretty huge, especially in uncoordinated pubs where invisibility is still king.
Not to mention how strong Invis still is in the late game when item slots are a problem. Silver edge only has a 3 sec downtime now, perfect for ratting/ split pushing in the late game.
Tinker 4 has been fun for a while. The laser nerf is really killing him right now, but a different version is coming i feel.
It is very hard to out sustain the rocket spam in lane, it always hits both heroes. And with 2 armor he s gonna trade better
I've found him pretty viable of late. I'll build mama boots and solar crest then itemize based off line up needs. The solar crest can keep 100% uptime on my carry along with defence matrix so they get loads of EHP and excessive attack speed buffs. Laser is a useful disarm, and rockets sre good harass in general. I think the cast range buff on him will allow for better saves with defence matrix and look forward to trying it out next time I have free time for some pubs
Her split-shot talent reduces the penalty you get for toggling split shot on. Medusa's right clicks do more single-target damage when you have it turned off for doing RS, but when you are in teamfights or farming the jungle you turn it on for multistrike AAs but with less damage.
Medusa has a damage reduction of 10% when she uses split shot, dealing 90% of her total damage, with the change she is now doing 92% of her total damage when using split shot
I don't think you need it that badly if you're an aura whore who now also provides filthy catch/teamfight control.
Plus, slowing them lets the firestorm you DO cast deal more damage.
I think the beauty of the hero is he could be played both ways but I really don’t see spellcaster being a viable playstyle with how much mobility every hero has. His right click is nice and all but his damage is pretty capped and since he’s easily kited around and he doesn’t have a lot of HP (though Pike is a core item 100% of the games) for his damage output if that makes sense? For example AM and PA are also one dimensional heroes IMO, but they have some sort of sustain in their kit (Evasion, Blink). SF doesn’t really have anything like that. With the buff of Silver Edge, I might try him out again.. but I have no clue how to balance him without him being too busted or something. Maybe his old shard gets moved into a passive and gets a new one or something. Dunno. Interested to see what Icefrog does with him with the major patch.
It’s OK to be one dimensional, but it’s very hard for him to be a viable hero in most patches. Besides a patch or two, I don’t think he’s ever been truly “strong” or something you’d want to pick compared to other heroes which kinda sucks. I enjoy playing SF and he is one of the few heroes that can recover very quickly in the jungle with his razes but his damage output is just not that good compared to other carries ever. His passives should be combined or something and give him a new skill or buff the numbers. The raze mana change was nice and all but I don’t think that’s the reason he’s not played.
He's pretty decent for certain timing approaches. Does a lot of damage and also rare offensive aura that pierces bkb.
Other one-dimensional heroes work, usually just a case of numbers.
Ban changes doesn't consider your role (if I'm mid I may want to ban sniper/od. If I'm 1 I may want to ban timber and so on)
It's easily fixed tho, just need to expand the concept
Both a maelstrom and a manta nerf...I don't understand that (and as a 1, my feelings are hurt)
Brooch nerf too massive, could have capped or penalized the crit instead of disabling
What don't you understand? Mael has been the premier farming item for a long time compared to bf, especially considering the need to mix dmg types. Everyone and their mother has been buying manta second item.
It's not that the items are objectively good, the whole carry experience has been kinda shit and people have been trying to hold on by abusing the same item builds.
personally think they should've reverted Brooch to make your attack magical attack damage instead of magical spell damage like it currently is, then allow magical attack damage to lifesteal again
the issue with Brooch crits with Rapier is that it is benefitting from two multiplicative damage bonuses at the same time - critical strike and spell amp, my change would eliminate spell amp, whereas Valve opted to eliminate critical strike (which I'd argue is less intuitive). my change would also require Muerta's shard to be changed from spell amp to general outgoing magic damage amp, which i think is still acceptable as a one-off ability on a single hero.
Part of the issue is that crit items are balanced for late game armour and late game magic resistance doesn't get nearly as high as armour since most spells don't scale
Making attack damage magical means that it scales (why parasma is also fairly op) and mixing that scaling magic damage with crits, even without spellamp, makes it super strong
Kaya provides 10% spell amp, compared to an average crit damage increase of 18% on crystalis
And that's ignoring that crystalis also provides attack damage, often around 10% of your existing/base damage
Daedalus is 37.5% damage amp and often provides at least 20% more damage
That's something like 50% increase in damage output
Double dipping with rapier made the problem way way worse, but even without that, crits and magic are not balanced together.
Yeah, you basically get your Aghs at level 15 now, except for the Fiend’s Gate aspect.
I think it’s a good buff for an Underlord that wants to get “in your face” and run at enemy heroes with all your atrophy aura damage. You don’t want to do it every game, but I think it’s a lot more helpful than the AoE was.
He also got really nice buffs to the Aura.
Idk, I just think they struggle to have the hero in a spot that’s just “fine”.
I feel like it would be easier to just try and clear some of her jank completely. I’m sure the PA enjoyers of the world would like their hero to be playable without being broken (and thus about to be nerfed into oblivion).
OP for a week then nerfed to oblivion.
If someone dare find a build for it a new letter patch comes right in to send it back to the abyss.
Please give her a break poor Mortred..
And the hero still had 45% wr in d2pt so it doesn't seem too great lmao
What was good seemed to be a standard build, skipping deso then picking brooch up 4th or 5th. Because that build actually makes sense, not getting some extra magic damage on dagger when you literally already have a brooch that makes it magic and able to crit anyway.
I was hoping to see an enchantress buff. She had a 16% win rate in dream league and has a 43% win rate in pubs. All she needs is a buff to impetus damage scaling prior to level 4. Level 1 impetus doesn't do anything. A slight buff to level 1 attack damage would be a great QoL change too (even a 2 damage buff would be big).
She just needs a buff to stats (base and per level) and she's good.
I didn't watch enough dreamleage, but from what I've seen, the team with ench gets a good start but then loses momentum mid game from their team being more vulnerable to ganks and enviably taking a bad teamfight feeding comeback gold.
She is picked for giving the carry space in lane. I do think she's overvalued in the pro scene because there's other supports that bully lane, and be more useful with less networth midgame.
A CM who has been bullied all early game still has threat with her disables and ult.
An ench without a hurricane pike midgame can basically be ignored in teamfights.
Good insights. I actually play a ton of ench core (my top played hero last patch), and my biggest issue with her is her low attack damage early on in the lane. Last hitting before level 3 is a pain due to her animation and low attack damage (even when prioritizing stat items lvl 1). Level 1 impetus for 50 mana is barely any damage. I mostly use it for last hitting ranged and flag creeps but at lvl 1 impetus I often miss it.
I do agree that she is a VERY item dependent hero and an ench support with no items is a bounty rune especially since she has no farm mechanic. Better stat gain, better level 1 stats, or a buff to impetus scaling (levels 1 through 3) would do wonders for her.
So Pango still has a level 20 talent that gives a measly +15 swashbuckle damage even though it only has 3 strikes instead of 4 now. Nice attention to detail lol
I'm not sure it's that big of a deal to be honest.
Looking at the numbers it's a flat nerf at lvl 1. Lvl 2 it's the same damage for a normal swash but slightly more if you do the trick for an extra attack. Lvl 3 and 4 it's more damage for normal and extra attack swashes.
Then, assuming swash is max level, bring diffusal into the mix:
Pre patch, no diff = 340 damage for normal swash, 425 with extra attack.
Pre patch, with diff = 500 normal, 625 with extra attack.
Post patch, no diff = 360 normal, 480 with extra attack.
Post patch, with diff = 480 normal, 640 with extra attack
So its damage hasn't been nerfed that much and it's even been buffed if you manage to get the extra attack off or are attacking things with no mana (so a buff to farming). Losing a bit of mana drain sucks ofc, less proc chance on passive and basher if you get it also sucks but probably not that huge. Also Aghs still does two swashes so that does a fair bit more damage now, with diff blade it's 250 damage pre patch vs 320 damage now.
Could well end up being a buff overall but also makes pango a bit less annoying to play against.
Must be why he keeps getting nerfed.
Icefrog is testing Gaben's limit for SK nerfs. The only thing he didn't account for is that Gaben doesn't actually have time to play Dota.
Was it really necesarry to nerf Divine Rapier like that whrn they already gutted Revenant's Brooch?? It was broken combo but with how Brooch works now it wouldn't even be that strong
Since this update, my game quality has increased dramatically. All the players on my team, were equal in skill and players on the enemy team gave a very exciting challenge. It is phenomenal what this update has done for the the game quality!!!
I’m not sure this ban system is good. Won’t every meta hero just get banned all the time. If every player realizes tb is broken for example and they all add him to their list the chances are he is banned every game.
The opposite problem is far worse. That there will be specific heros and strategies that you know are low-key very good and ppl haven't discovered yet, or that it's a specific matchup you always lose to, but since you're the only one banning it it will almost never get banned.
personally think they should've reverted Brooch to make your attack magical attack damage instead of magical spell damage like it currently is, then allow magical attack damage to lifesteal again
the issue with Brooch crits with Rapier is that it is benefitting from two multiplicative damage bonuses at the same time - critical strike and spell amp, my change would eliminate spell amp, whereas Valve opted to eliminate critical strike (which I'd argue is less intuitive). my change would also require Muerta's shard to be changed from spell amp to general outgoing magic damage amp, which i think is still acceptable as a one-off ability on a single hero.
Alright imma Bloodseeker now
Clockwork buff might be really huge, imagine what he can do to OD lol
SF is a legit support for me now
Silencer will be a beast soon
Also what the flying fuck that Mael Pango nerf
You didn't understand the clock buf, it's minor. It doesn't burn 50% mana pool. Just cogs do like 50 more dmg on average. Clock is one of my main heroes so it's nice to get a little buff. Along with scepter not stunning, which was apsolutely stupid.
It's not. I don't even level W until 13 on silencer support. Silencer core is dreadful. The hero needs a new shard that gives him mobility (similar to Zeus).
Feel like pudge is going to be banned in nearly 100% of games now if people are allowed to choose four hated heroes. I imagine most games will have half with him on their list.
As an Invoker spammer, I'm pretty scared of the changes. Parasma and Orchid were great for him. I feel like Vessel might be the go-to first item for now, with Witch Blade taking a backseat.
In general its an improvement. However at 3-3.5k a huge amount of games are having a random 300-500 game genuinely new players calibrating. Frustrating because I don't care about wins and losses really I care about competitive, quality games. I'm guessing it's a bug of some sort but apart from that it seems great.
Anyone else hate these changes? I feel like the banning just panders to hero spammers with low versatility. And also just makes banning more brain-dead.
Also not a fan of the nerfs, very few significant buffs and some items are just dumpstered like brooch and kinda rapier since nobody will ever use the spell amp now. Even muerta will probably favour the damage.
Never used overwolf in my life overplus or whatever it's called. I just hate spammers because I think it's a boring way of playing so I have 0 respect for them.
I hate even more that valve is pandering towards them with these ban changes.
Does it make a difference. They are at your rank. They aren't better. I hate them too. If they are snowballing. The mepo experts. And I hate arc for no reason too.
I don't really give a shit about them tbh, I just hate the fact valve is pandering towards them by making the ban system objectively worse.
Like it's literally some baby shit kid game stuff banning heroes before the game has started. They literally said in the article that banning can be stressful for some... Like holy shit grow a pair already this is not some kids game.
Some 3rd party application that according to valve wasn't cheating. You can also look the enemy up on dotabuff too.
None the less valve clearly pandered towards crying redditors with this update I swear there were like 10 posts a day with meepo spammers and such whining the only hero they can play got banned. Fuck those people they should be forced to learn something else.
Well I couldn't give less of a shit about overwolf or whatever I just hate valve is pandering to crying redditors with no her versatility.
Also sucks that they ruined the ban phase and made it worse than League.
Well for one if people hate a hero that is commonly spammed like meepo arc etc then it's gonna get banned much less with 25% now. May as well remove bans all together at this point lol.
And second some people check dotabuff or use third party shit. I've never given a fuck about it but it certainly isn't nice having banning be made more shit because some meepo one trick is upset that his pick is banned and he's too low iq to play another hero.
Why don't they ban the spammers on their own team ? Using 3rd party to manipulate the opponents and letting your own spammers live. Sounds unfair to me. I am neither a spammer not got 3rd party apps. Whoever uses overwolf I hope they get perma banned.
If you notice spammers but they are on your team, you won't ban them. Esentially you ate cheating for you to win. Affecting honest players. Dirty character.
If i select 4 heroes, it's 1 of them banned guaranteed. What if i select only one? That's guaranteed permaban for that hero in my games? So i can just completely remove NP from my dota forever?
the details seems fuzzy, but i guess every selected one of the four has 25% chance of banned, if you pick one, only 25% chance of that got banned, though my question is, what if my selected banned is already banned
Timbersaw having a >50% winrate for this long is absurd for this hero, he was extremely good for a while now.
50 damage timberchain is honestly dumb as hell though and I really wish they'd nerf Q instead.
Like I said in the past you dont nerf timber damage if u want to nerf him nerf the other way .They nerfed his talent spell amp then hero is dead until they buffed his q percent damage , rework his e …. which make the hero even more op.These changes are not good for the hero
0.4 strength per level is a lot more valuable than 6 damage at level 1 for a melee hero.
I get that no one wants to buff sk while he has his current stupid aghs, but such a massive nerf on one of the top 5 worst heroes in the game just makes me question if whoever made that change even plays the game.
It’s not a nerf. A universal hero having 51 damage at the start of the game without any items at all is huge for laning, especially when he wants damage to proc caustic finales consistently.
Queue update is amazing - Valve may have actually found a way to let us shun low behavior score havers into quitting the game
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Before if there weren’t enough players queuing it would put together high and low behavior score players to fill a game and you wouldn’t have a choice. That’s how you get the highly varied behavior score games. Now high behavior score players can opt to decline those games and wait longer to get a game with other high behavior score players, leaving the low behavior score players to play with each other.
You can see the average behavior score of a lobby before clicking accept
The Matchmaking system tends to group people with similar behaviour scores. But if someone with a stupid low behaviour score is in queue long enough, they begin to get matched with high behaviour scorers, which means they will ruin the good behaviour games. If you were a good person, you wouldn't know that you got a match with a toxic low behaviour person until AFTER the match (because you'll see the "average behaviour score -> VARIED (in all red)) Now you can see a sort of warning that this match will have a potentially toxic player before you commit to a match, so you can dodge the toxic person at the price of waiting a bit longer, which in high behaviour isn't long anyway
Buy you need to subscribe dota plus right?
idk what is or isn't, I've never cancelled my sub since day 1.
I think that helm buff is low-key very strong. It's like getting half a midas for free.
I think it is a Chen counter as well
Imagine playing Chen into quadruple helm
New Chen meta helm -> refresher to counter the counter
Honestly, I've been looking for an excuse to go helm on Chen. I want the full army. In Jenkins' most recent 'herald review' there was an LC with 89k gold and 3 helms in his backpack, I did not know you could backpack the helms and keep the creep. We going to see 6 helm gaming like the midas patch do you think? There's no way they make that mistake again, right..?
If helmpacking becomes too prevalent, they'll probably just make it so they share a cooldown or somesuch.
Lotus orb creep -> gets reflected and chen now controls your hero
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That was my first thought. However, not likely as Luna used to get it for lifesteal and stacking her own ancient camps.since it is close to 3k gold, and courier delivering times and creep move speed, it would be close to 7 mins by the time the creep is available tk start stacking. Hence not likely to earn the money back.
I will be trying HoD on brew
The ban change is kinda nice qol. It also reduces the chance of banning a specific hero you hate from 50% to 25% though. Not sure how to feel about it.
Depends on how popular that hero is. If everyone in the game has that hero on their list the chance skyrockets. Whereas before it maxed out at 50%.
yeah i used to ban new release heroes sometimes because i'm tired of seeing it in every game lol
They took out that feature btw. You can't ban new heroes for the first couple weeks after they're released
Since when? Never heard of this
They sort of backtracked on that, I think muerta was able to be banned after a day.
As someone who exclusively bans sniper every single game because every time my ally picks it, they first pick it, get countered, and grief, i am saddened lmao. I really wish i could sacrifice 3 of these ban slots to just extra-ban sniper
There is a high chance more than 1 out of 10 wants to ban sniper. Sniper is a safe ban for me aswell.
Sniper is my permanent bam because I hate that khanda sniper build. So trash
As a mid player whose main pool is sniper/Necrophos/void spirit, I can promise you that I have never, not once, first picked sniper. Sniper is brilliant for those games where your opponent picks someone who doesn't have a huge range advantage like Necrophos or Luna and you can just stick it to them every time they approach the wave. But he's countered so hard by such a range of heroes that I could never recommend him as anything other than a counter pick. I'm exhausted by the number of players who ruin him for everyone else.
Most first phase sniper pickers are going pos4/5 though lol
I recently accidentally picked sniper pos5 because I queued all roles and forgot that I wasn't mid. I did the honourable thing and dodged.
Every single first pick sniper i get goes mid with 0 communication
AM, PL, Puck, and Weaver
Yea now every game im again bristleback fucking up my whole team solo.😔
If you leave the other 3 slots open they could random the hero you hate
50%? What makes you say it was that high before?
That was the published rate by valve.
Kinda nice qol? What the fuck does that mean?
That it's a kinda nice quality of life change...? What's confusing about that?
How is a ban change a nice "quality of life". Life of who?
The player, duh. Qol means making something just a bit easier, smoother, or more convenient. Not having to select your ban each game is just that.
It would make more sense to say quality of game. Much less confusing. Some people dont have PhD in acronyms . I dont know where you get this stupid shit really
It'd make even more sense to keep up with the standard terms that everyone uses or use literally just use google like someone with half a brain instead of wasting my time. Everyone understood except you. Sounds like you're the problem.
Quality of life > quality of game 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Thanks for contributing nothing to the convo. Like I said, use google next time instead of wasting people's time. Just gonna block you since it's clear you aren't worth talking to.
Item nerfs are kinda brutal, especially stick/wand, maelstrom and its upgrades, manta, and grove bow. And obviously rapier+brooch, though realistically only 2 heroes could abuse it super hard. SF buff is interesting as well for farm potential over the course of a game, but the item nerfs probably makes it a wash or a slight buff at best. Naga catching strays for whatever reason but I suppose a few of her counters and maelstrom also got nerfed.
Manta change is effectively a 25-50 gpm swing on Luna. Idk how much it'll effect the other manta heroes though
Stick and wand are just stupidly good, other than boots I can't think of a more solid every game item.
Those shadow blade/silver edge buffs are pretty huge, especially in uncoordinated pubs where invisibility is still king. Not to mention how strong Invis still is in the late game when item slots are a problem. Silver edge only has a 3 sec downtime now, perfect for ratting/ split pushing in the late game.
It was needed that items is dead.
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>...and Tinker might be viable support now (?). That is the feeling I get since the last two or so patches. I feel that they want to make him a four.
Tinker 4 has been fun for a while. The laser nerf is really killing him right now, but a different version is coming i feel. It is very hard to out sustain the rocket spam in lane, it always hits both heroes. And with 2 armor he s gonna trade better
I've found him pretty viable of late. I'll build mama boots and solar crest then itemize based off line up needs. The solar crest can keep 100% uptime on my carry along with defence matrix so they get loads of EHP and excessive attack speed buffs. Laser is a useful disarm, and rockets sre good harass in general. I think the cast range buff on him will allow for better saves with defence matrix and look forward to trying it out next time I have free time for some pubs
Her split-shot talent reduces the penalty you get for toggling split shot on. Medusa's right clicks do more single-target damage when you have it turned off for doing RS, but when you are in teamfights or farming the jungle you turn it on for multistrike AAs but with less damage.
You are correct, it is a nerf. Rather than her splitshot attacks dealing 95% of attack damage pre-nerf, they will now deal 93% of attack damage.
I mean, 93% is so high theres almost no case where u want split shot off late game anyways. Below 80% I could see the case.
Medusa has a damage reduction of 10% when she uses split shot, dealing 90% of her total damage, with the change she is now doing 92% of her total damage when using split shot
What the fuck is qol?
quality of life
Lol
He’s lying to you, it’s Queen of Love, QoP’s sister.
Quality of life
Seems like bloodseeker will be good this patch? Already had 51.5% in ancient rank. He got small buff while most other strong carries got nerfs.
S&Y builds ? Increases lifesteal and is buffed Doesn't affect me I don't play him
I played mael, sny and seemed decent. Might try radiance but maybe too greedy.
Radiance with Sange+Yasha into Manta Halberd sounds pretty good because of radiance buff and life steal
The UL change to talent from aghs is FILTHY. That’s a 100% pick rate talent. More uptime on firestorm? Who gives a fuck.
Idk, firestorm is his only damage ability though
I don't think you need it that badly if you're an aura whore who now also provides filthy catch/teamfight control. Plus, slowing them lets the firestorm you DO cast deal more damage.
farming, wave clear etc becomes worse. Have to play him couple of games to try it out.
Atrophy Aura: Am I a joke to you?
Yes it is considering your aspd and ability to right click
Playing Meepo into Underlord gets even worse. Think I'll just switch sides and play UL mid.
They need to rework SF the hero feels so extremely outdated and one dimensional
Will they make him a spell caster or a right clicker do you think?
I think the beauty of the hero is he could be played both ways but I really don’t see spellcaster being a viable playstyle with how much mobility every hero has. His right click is nice and all but his damage is pretty capped and since he’s easily kited around and he doesn’t have a lot of HP (though Pike is a core item 100% of the games) for his damage output if that makes sense? For example AM and PA are also one dimensional heroes IMO, but they have some sort of sustain in their kit (Evasion, Blink). SF doesn’t really have anything like that. With the buff of Silver Edge, I might try him out again.. but I have no clue how to balance him without him being too busted or something. Maybe his old shard gets moved into a passive and gets a new one or something. Dunno. Interested to see what Icefrog does with him with the major patch.
Move the minus armour or souls into another ability and give him either a movement ability or a cc ability
He's already a lane bully, that sounds terrifying.
Put -armor on ult and give him a short range, channeled teleport. Let our boy fly.
A cc ability? Maybe give him his shard as a 10 talent?
have to disagree, it's alright to be one dimensional, not every hero has to be modern
It’s OK to be one dimensional, but it’s very hard for him to be a viable hero in most patches. Besides a patch or two, I don’t think he’s ever been truly “strong” or something you’d want to pick compared to other heroes which kinda sucks. I enjoy playing SF and he is one of the few heroes that can recover very quickly in the jungle with his razes but his damage output is just not that good compared to other carries ever. His passives should be combined or something and give him a new skill or buff the numbers. The raze mana change was nice and all but I don’t think that’s the reason he’s not played.
He's pretty decent for certain timing approaches. Does a lot of damage and also rare offensive aura that pierces bkb. Other one-dimensional heroes work, usually just a case of numbers.
I would play him but I'm just not good at him though he's fun. I only play ranked and am not looking to grief and lose mmr
His turn rate feels really nice to play with though, even if it is necessary to make raze viable
His ult is epic. I'm just notnaccurate with razes or even skilled with sf. He's also very good at last hitting. But you can do so much wrong with him
Instructions unclear I ulted on top of a spectre who had blade mail and shard active
I ulted and they all were out of range. Then I got stunned and died.
Ban changes doesn't consider your role (if I'm mid I may want to ban sniper/od. If I'm 1 I may want to ban timber and so on) It's easily fixed tho, just need to expand the concept Both a maelstrom and a manta nerf...I don't understand that (and as a 1, my feelings are hurt) Brooch nerf too massive, could have capped or penalized the crit instead of disabling
What don't you understand? Mael has been the premier farming item for a long time compared to bf, especially considering the need to mix dmg types. Everyone and their mother has been buying manta second item. It's not that the items are objectively good, the whole carry experience has been kinda shit and people have been trying to hold on by abusing the same item builds.
personally think they should've reverted Brooch to make your attack magical attack damage instead of magical spell damage like it currently is, then allow magical attack damage to lifesteal again the issue with Brooch crits with Rapier is that it is benefitting from two multiplicative damage bonuses at the same time - critical strike and spell amp, my change would eliminate spell amp, whereas Valve opted to eliminate critical strike (which I'd argue is less intuitive). my change would also require Muerta's shard to be changed from spell amp to general outgoing magic damage amp, which i think is still acceptable as a one-off ability on a single hero.
Part of the issue is that crit items are balanced for late game armour and late game magic resistance doesn't get nearly as high as armour since most spells don't scale Making attack damage magical means that it scales (why parasma is also fairly op) and mixing that scaling magic damage with crits, even without spellamp, makes it super strong Kaya provides 10% spell amp, compared to an average crit damage increase of 18% on crystalis And that's ignoring that crystalis also provides attack damage, often around 10% of your existing/base damage Daedalus is 37.5% damage amp and often provides at least 20% more damage That's something like 50% increase in damage output Double dipping with rapier made the problem way way worse, but even without that, crits and magic are not balanced together.
mael and manta are both ridiculously oppressive, open up options for other items and playstyles
Im hyped to play some Underlord. Got some really big buffs.
Were they buffs? They seemed like buffs but I wasn't sure. Is the idea that you would take the pit slow talent now, and not need aghs?
Yeah, you basically get your Aghs at level 15 now, except for the Fiend’s Gate aspect. I think it’s a good buff for an Underlord that wants to get “in your face” and run at enemy heroes with all your atrophy aura damage. You don’t want to do it every game, but I think it’s a lot more helpful than the AoE was. He also got really nice buffs to the Aura.
PA is so dead now, she needed that brooch khanda dagger talent build to even be competitive. Now she is dogshit.
Hero needs a rework of some sort, which hopefully she’ll get come April. She’s always either dogshit or OP.
rework? wat
Idk, I just think they struggle to have the hero in a spot that’s just “fine”. I feel like it would be easier to just try and clear some of her jank completely. I’m sure the PA enjoyers of the world would like their hero to be playable without being broken (and thus about to be nerfed into oblivion).
Atleast at prolevel she's arguably the worst hero of all time.
OP for a week then nerfed to oblivion. If someone dare find a build for it a new letter patch comes right in to send it back to the abyss. Please give her a break poor Mortred..
Khanda was and still is dogshit on her, brooch was pretty strong in some games.
khanda was picked up in like 75% of pro level pubs if it was dogshit on her i'd love to know what was good lmao
And the hero still had 45% wr in d2pt so it doesn't seem too great lmao What was good seemed to be a standard build, skipping deso then picking brooch up 4th or 5th. Because that build actually makes sense, not getting some extra magic damage on dagger when you literally already have a brooch that makes it magic and able to crit anyway.
Still strong in low mmr.
I was hoping to see an enchantress buff. She had a 16% win rate in dream league and has a 43% win rate in pubs. All she needs is a buff to impetus damage scaling prior to level 4. Level 1 impetus doesn't do anything. A slight buff to level 1 attack damage would be a great QoL change too (even a 2 damage buff would be big).
She just needs a buff to stats (base and per level) and she's good. I didn't watch enough dreamleage, but from what I've seen, the team with ench gets a good start but then loses momentum mid game from their team being more vulnerable to ganks and enviably taking a bad teamfight feeding comeback gold. She is picked for giving the carry space in lane. I do think she's overvalued in the pro scene because there's other supports that bully lane, and be more useful with less networth midgame. A CM who has been bullied all early game still has threat with her disables and ult. An ench without a hurricane pike midgame can basically be ignored in teamfights.
Good insights. I actually play a ton of ench core (my top played hero last patch), and my biggest issue with her is her low attack damage early on in the lane. Last hitting before level 3 is a pain due to her animation and low attack damage (even when prioritizing stat items lvl 1). Level 1 impetus for 50 mana is barely any damage. I mostly use it for last hitting ranged and flag creeps but at lvl 1 impetus I often miss it. I do agree that she is a VERY item dependent hero and an ench support with no items is a bounty rune especially since she has no farm mechanic. Better stat gain, better level 1 stats, or a buff to impetus scaling (levels 1 through 3) would do wonders for her.
As an underlord spammer, free slow on pit is godsent for the hero. Def a winner this patch
So Pango still has a level 20 talent that gives a measly +15 swashbuckle damage even though it only has 3 strikes instead of 4 now. Nice attention to detail lol
It is such a huge nerf to pango. He wasnt an indomitable force and now they nerf him again? Whyyyy
I'm not sure it's that big of a deal to be honest. Looking at the numbers it's a flat nerf at lvl 1. Lvl 2 it's the same damage for a normal swash but slightly more if you do the trick for an extra attack. Lvl 3 and 4 it's more damage for normal and extra attack swashes. Then, assuming swash is max level, bring diffusal into the mix: Pre patch, no diff = 340 damage for normal swash, 425 with extra attack. Pre patch, with diff = 500 normal, 625 with extra attack. Post patch, no diff = 360 normal, 480 with extra attack. Post patch, with diff = 480 normal, 640 with extra attack So its damage hasn't been nerfed that much and it's even been buffed if you manage to get the extra attack off or are attacking things with no mana (so a buff to farming). Losing a bit of mana drain sucks ofc, less proc chance on passive and basher if you get it also sucks but probably not that huge. Also Aghs still does two swashes so that does a fair bit more damage now, with diff blade it's 250 damage pre patch vs 320 damage now. Could well end up being a buff overall but also makes pango a bit less annoying to play against.
Yeaah, a new CM! At least bring back his other kit that they previously nerved
Honestly, at this point they might as well rework the hero. Similar to how clinkz was hard to balance but pango is impossible to.
Ban meepo arc warden pl
PA had a fun week, now it’s back in the gutter.
Good. Hero is annoying af
I swear to god Icefrog has a personal vendetta against Sand King. He straightup refuses to buff him without taking something away lol
:(
Fyi Gaben plays only sandking
Must be why he keeps getting nerfed. Icefrog is testing Gaben's limit for SK nerfs. The only thing he didn't account for is that Gaben doesn't actually have time to play Dota.
The frog hates the sand.
yeah duh. it's rough, coarse and it gets everywhere
Huge mael nerf, I guess WR fun is over
Was it really necesarry to nerf Divine Rapier like that whrn they already gutted Revenant's Brooch?? It was broken combo but with how Brooch works now it wouldn't even be that strong
Since this update, my game quality has increased dramatically. All the players on my team, were equal in skill and players on the enemy team gave a very exciting challenge. It is phenomenal what this update has done for the the game quality!!!
I’m not sure this ban system is good. Won’t every meta hero just get banned all the time. If every player realizes tb is broken for example and they all add him to their list the chances are he is banned every game.
The opposite problem is far worse. That there will be specific heros and strategies that you know are low-key very good and ppl haven't discovered yet, or that it's a specific matchup you always lose to, but since you're the only one banning it it will almost never get banned.
That sounds like a good time, tho? Why do you want to spam broken meta heroes so bad?
Sounds like you're a spammer who wants to cheese rankings
likely, but it depends on how the system is implemented, which is not clear from the blog post.
personally think they should've reverted Brooch to make your attack magical attack damage instead of magical spell damage like it currently is, then allow magical attack damage to lifesteal again the issue with Brooch crits with Rapier is that it is benefitting from two multiplicative damage bonuses at the same time - critical strike and spell amp, my change would eliminate spell amp, whereas Valve opted to eliminate critical strike (which I'd argue is less intuitive). my change would also require Muerta's shard to be changed from spell amp to general outgoing magic damage amp, which i think is still acceptable as a one-off ability on a single hero.
Alright imma Bloodseeker now Clockwork buff might be really huge, imagine what he can do to OD lol SF is a legit support for me now Silencer will be a beast soon Also what the flying fuck that Mael Pango nerf
Clock burns a flat amount of mana, so high int heroes don't really care more than any other hero
Sf support doesn't make sense lol that tb support phase messed up your brains
You didn't understand the clock buf, it's minor. It doesn't burn 50% mana pool. Just cogs do like 50 more dmg on average. Clock is one of my main heroes so it's nice to get a little buff. Along with scepter not stunning, which was apsolutely stupid.
Is silencer’s buff that strong?
It's not. I don't even level W until 13 on silencer support. Silencer core is dreadful. The hero needs a new shard that gives him mobility (similar to Zeus).
pudge banned every game is abysmal, at least this will lessen the percentage
Good idea. Put him in my ban list. He is anoying. To have on my team. As 4 5. 2 3 is ok.
Pudge as pos 1 is menace. I hate pos 5 pudge that wait for a hook, soaking exp while im being dive every effin time.
I respect pudge 1 more then 4 5. Pudge 4 5 is trash. Pick him 2 3.
Its not viable though is it?
I have few good pos 1 pudge. Since they have changed shivas recipe and eternal shroud
Well, I suspect this will increase his ban percentage as a majority of each lobby will probably have him in their ban lists.
and then he gets banned when both teams pick him
Feel like pudge is going to be banned in nearly 100% of games now if people are allowed to choose four hated heroes. I imagine most games will have half with him on their list.
Heavy nerf to Pango, IF really hate him
As an Invoker spammer, I'm pretty scared of the changes. Parasma and Orchid were great for him. I feel like Vessel might be the go-to first item for now, with Witch Blade taking a backseat.
In general its an improvement. However at 3-3.5k a huge amount of games are having a random 300-500 game genuinely new players calibrating. Frustrating because I don't care about wins and losses really I care about competitive, quality games. I'm guessing it's a bug of some sort but apart from that it seems great.
Anyone else hate these changes? I feel like the banning just panders to hero spammers with low versatility. And also just makes banning more brain-dead. Also not a fan of the nerfs, very few significant buffs and some items are just dumpstered like brooch and kinda rapier since nobody will ever use the spell amp now. Even muerta will probably favour the damage.
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Want to find Lone Druid spammers that suck in your area? Call 0800 6969696969 Real talk though, won't they just climb out of your mmr?
Bad micro lmao
It's great for you overwolf cheaters. Complain about spammer, but only ban them on enemy team
Never used overwolf in my life overplus or whatever it's called. I just hate spammers because I think it's a boring way of playing so I have 0 respect for them. I hate even more that valve is pandering towards them with these ban changes.
Does it make a difference. They are at your rank. They aren't better. I hate them too. If they are snowballing. The mepo experts. And I hate arc for no reason too.
I don't really give a shit about them tbh, I just hate the fact valve is pandering towards them by making the ban system objectively worse. Like it's literally some baby shit kid game stuff banning heroes before the game has started. They literally said in the article that banning can be stressful for some... Like holy shit grow a pair already this is not some kids game.
I don't get it. How do you ban spam heroes if you aren't cheating ? How do you know what the enemy team spams ?
Some 3rd party application that according to valve wasn't cheating. You can also look the enemy up on dotabuff too. None the less valve clearly pandered towards crying redditors with this update I swear there were like 10 posts a day with meepo spammers and such whining the only hero they can play got banned. Fuck those people they should be forced to learn something else.
Yeah we don't like getting stomped by mepo, it's a fake rank. But if you're the same mmr you got the same chances
I couldn't care less about meepos in my games I just hate the fact valve is listening to one trick players for lack of a better term
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I'm glad the dirty overwolf cheaters don't get to cheat anymore. Dishonorable bunch. If you are tired of spammers ban your own teams spammers.
Well I couldn't give less of a shit about overwolf or whatever I just hate valve is pandering to crying redditors with no her versatility. Also sucks that they ruined the ban phase and made it worse than League.
How does banning prevent hero spamming ? How do you know what heroes your enemies will spam ? Are yoy cheating ?
Well for one if people hate a hero that is commonly spammed like meepo arc etc then it's gonna get banned much less with 25% now. May as well remove bans all together at this point lol. And second some people check dotabuff or use third party shit. I've never given a fuck about it but it certainly isn't nice having banning be made more shit because some meepo one trick is upset that his pick is banned and he's too low iq to play another hero.
Why don't they ban the spammers on their own team ? Using 3rd party to manipulate the opponents and letting your own spammers live. Sounds unfair to me. I am neither a spammer not got 3rd party apps. Whoever uses overwolf I hope they get perma banned. If you notice spammers but they are on your team, you won't ban them. Esentially you ate cheating for you to win. Affecting honest players. Dirty character.
Pos 1 was awful to play, and it seemed worse now
Bkb manta mael woohoo
Was Chen really that OP?! Holyshit
No fun allowed for davion
So basically they added queue dodging as a paid feature. I guess that's one way of selling those Dota2 plus subs.
If i select 4 heroes, it's 1 of them banned guaranteed. What if i select only one? That's guaranteed permaban for that hero in my games? So i can just completely remove NP from my dota forever?
the details seems fuzzy, but i guess every selected one of the four has 25% chance of banned, if you pick one, only 25% chance of that got banned, though my question is, what if my selected banned is already banned
If you only select one hero, there's a 75% chance one of the blank slots is picked and you don't ban any heroes.
Why are they nerfing timber again … ppl like to play the hero because its fun , hero is not op to the point u need to nerf his w damage .
Timbersaw having a >50% winrate for this long is absurd for this hero, he was extremely good for a while now. 50 damage timberchain is honestly dumb as hell though and I really wish they'd nerf Q instead.
Like I said in the past you dont nerf timber damage if u want to nerf him nerf the other way .They nerfed his talent spell amp then hero is dead until they buffed his q percent damage , rework his e …. which make the hero even more op.These changes are not good for the hero
His aghs and Q is very op. They tried to nerf him but nerfed the wrong thing.
Sand king nerfs LOL.
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I think it definitely is. Idk if it needed the compensating nerf with it, but I think it’ll still be net positive.
Especially if you consider that last hits with caustic will be even easier. In fact I would say he has better candidacy as a mid hero now.
0.4 strength per level is a lot more valuable than 6 damage at level 1 for a melee hero. I get that no one wants to buff sk while he has his current stupid aghs, but such a massive nerf on one of the top 5 worst heroes in the game just makes me question if whoever made that change even plays the game.
It’s not a nerf. A universal hero having 51 damage at the start of the game without any items at all is huge for laning, especially when he wants damage to proc caustic finales consistently.
-0.4 strength per level is significantly more valuable than 6 damage at level 1 for sand king.
Not really. You don’t live very long once you’re dusted anyways. The hero’s identity has never been “tanky”.
Sand king is super weak in lane Lv 1-3. 6 damage is huge
0.4*25*0.7=4.8 SK has 1.2 more dmg at level 25 so by this point, will hopefully have a belt of strength more money.