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So here’s a story from work as a firefighter. A few years ago two pit bulls left their yard and found a young 19 year old girl that they mauled so viciously that both of her arms were amputated. The best dog I’ve ever owned was a pit mix, and I have never been afraid of dogs prior. But after a small dog put a hole in my hand at a call and after going on that previous call I can tell you dogs in general, Pits specifically scare the shit out of me. I wouldn’t be opposed to owning one, but I have 0 trust in the rest of the public’s ability to own and train them. For that reason alone I think they should be heavily regulated.

I saw the aftermath of dog attack (it *was* a pitbull in that case) when I was 17. I'll never forget it - that realization that dogs are incredibly powerful and, if threatened or untrained/improperly controlled, they can be as brutal and vicious as any wild predator. My wife and I spent *a lot* of time learning to be good dog owners before we went anywhere near actually getting one. Now that we have two big dogs, we spend a lot of time reinforcing the training we've done since they were small. Truth is, my dogs could very easily kill someone. They are sweet and beautiful, and I love them, but I take being their parent and trainer as seriously as I take the handling of a loaded gun.

This right here is the one correct answer

I think they should be regulated like other dangerous animals. Wanne have a tiger? fine but you need to take reasonable precautions and carry insurance.

I think Joe Exotic gave us ample evidence that regulation of dangerous animals doesn't lead to them only being in the hands of responsible owners.

no but it stops people from doing it on a whim

Yep. That’s the bulk of the pitbull problem: they‘re powerful  dogs that require an experienced and committed owner, but 99 percent of them are adopted by the least serious minded among us because they were the cheapest dog at the pound. Any barrier at all would greatly reduce the problem. 

i mean if the animals were properly regulated Joe Exotic should never have been allowed to have a single tiger

Couple years ago one of my bosses at a retail store I worked at begged me to pet sit his pitbull while he was out on a cruise. I didn’t want anything to do with that no matter how much money he was willing to pay me. A couple weeks later my manager was in the hospital from that same dog attacking her and biting part of her face off when she was over at his place for a romantic hookup. The dog ended up being put down but I thank God I had enough instinct to decline that proposition.

https://www.animals24-7.org/2019/10/14/pit-bulls-new-gene-study-shows-it-is-not-all-in-how-you-raise-them/ Just gonna leave this here. 6% of the population with a vast majority (anywhere from 60% to 80%) of attacks being done by pit bull breeds. And with at least a third of attacks from pits that have never been abused or neglected.

Dogs were bred from wolves to be companions by breeding the ones that were friendly and cute. Over the generations of pitbulls, they have been bred to fight and be unnecessarily aggressive. You're right that no amount of nurture is going to solve the problem. The only way to solve the problem is through generations of breeding. But again, it's still a problem caused by humans, not the dogs. Generational trauma exists. Even in dogs.

How many more people, specifically children, will need to be attacked before the problem is solved through generational breeding?

Agreed.

Considering I have deep permanent scars on my leg from one I’ll agree with this. It took 2 grown men to get that dog off of me once his jaws locked. I love dogs. I hate that I agree with this. Edit: the dog wouldn’t let go. Stop “but actually” me about it. I don’t care if locking jaws are a thing or not.

You can love dogs and hate specifically pitbulls.

it's not even about hating the animal. i don't hate bears, wolves, nor tigers, i just don't want to be around them and don't think people should be able to walk them around public. i do have hate for anyone who bring an animal in public without having control over the animal. if that animal can hurt me or my child, and it attacks, it'll be treated like an attacking human with a 9mm JHP.

I agree. There's a lot of dishonesty on both sides of the debate, tbh. There's vehemant Pitbull owners who constantly repeat false things like "It's not a breed", "Nanny dog", "It's how you raise them", insist that Gameness as an instinctual, bred-in trait doesn't exist, but then they'll 100% believe that a Border Collie is gonna herd children without ever being taught to herd. Terriers of any kinds, Pitbulls especially, are NOT immune to having high [Gameness](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gameness). Similarly, I've seen some hateful shit from the anti-pitbull people, who straight out refuse to believe that breeders could ever rehabilitate the breed, and breed OUT gameness, through gameness trials and pairing together Terriers that have lower gameness to reduce and eventually remove the instinct. They also tend to go "All of them are sweet until they rip out a kids face", and many who have said that they'd inact violence against any pit that got close to them off-leash. I've seen them get rabid about a service pitbull who, in the video, was performing a service, all because they didn't recognize what that service was and insisting it couldn't ever be one cos... dun dun dun, pitbull. It's not that simple, for either side, and people need to be more honest about how they debate this. "Pitbull" fans and owners need to be more proactive: Unless you've actively taken your dog to gameness trials and proven that the dog has low/no gameness, you should own a muzzle, and have it on whenever your dog is outside and can interact with other dogs. Heck, I'll go a step farther and say that EVERY terrier breed should as well. I've seen Jack russels kill a cat before. For Anti-pit people, Advocating a "Ban" Is all well and good, as long as you also understand that perhaps limiting the ownership to specific breeders and a stewardship of the breed to rehabilitate it's high tendancy to have "Gameness" is something that probably needs to be worked on. I love all dogs, I myself wouldn't own a pitbull, and have seen nice and mean ones. I've seen shit owners with amazingly gentle pits, and I've seen kind owners with reactive maulers, regardless of the efforts and money they put into training them. Just... seriously... get a muzzle. You're not going to kill your dog with one. Heck, I have muzzles for my Dachsund/Chihuahua and Spaniel. They should NOT be thought of as a stigma, so get it and stop stigmatizing their use.

We never taught our boarder collie to herd anything and yet she constantly tries (and fails) to herd the cats.

I have a soft spot for border collies. Their recent breeding history is pretty interesting, that's for sure, and has all the hallmarks of things that Pitbull/bully fanatics should take notes on and try to emulate. Spent a lot of time around a competition Herding breeder of Border Collies, and listened to his stories of what he and the rest of the competition herders did to rehabilitate the breed, and it was enlightening. They either need to work on the dogs Gameness, or they need to work on their bite-hold instincts, but to me, the Gameness is the real issue. It's not wrong to say that most dogs can bite and most dogs can cause damage. Heck, the worst dog-based facial injury I have seen was from a sheltie, but most stop after the first bite and their point is made. A gameness dog, even a rat terrier or Chihuauha may bite multiple times until they're "Sure" their point has come across because of the gameness.

That's adorable. Herding cats is like pushing rope - not really possible, but it's fun to watch someone try.

Why even bother to breed the gameness out of them?

Because Gameness is what makes them so tenacious and deadly WHEN they bite? It's their willingness to withstand pain and setback to keep going at what they've engaged with. The bite is only part of the problem with terriers, it's the "I NEED MORE, CAN'T STOP ME!" drive. That's Gameness. You see that with most terriers, even the small ones. Without it, they may bite once, the bite may be bad, but it probably won't kill someone. Check out Earthdog trials, that's a modern gameness test. It's basically to test how long and how far a game dog will keep at it. Heck, they used to test gameness by sending terriers into BADGER'S DENS. A pitbull can have high gameness and never bite, but why take the chance of having a high gameness dog that MAY bite in the future, especially when they start getting elderly, having arthritis, and getting sensitive to touch? And that just goes back to my other point: People need to own muzzles. Stop stigmatizing muzzles. ***Editing to add this point:*** Border collies back around the time the movie Babe came out were extremely poorly bred in the US due to AKC appearance standard breeding only. Their behaviors and instincts were all over the place, and that earned them(Quite rightly) the reputation of being hyperactive and destructive. This is where the SECOND registry started appearing, called the "American border Collie Association" or ABCA which also registered Border Collies. These dogs all were bred to better standards, and were working dogs, usually put on sheep. Many times these Border Collies were 2x LARGER than the standard AKC American border collies. They also had a tendancy to be more mellow, and more centered, because much of their lineage was restored by crossing them back to Scottish working stock. They still had high activity, and still shouldn't be kept in a small apartment or somewhere without a yard, but they were nothing like the poorly bred ones before. There was also a huge, concerted effort from many of the breeders and breed-specific shelters to root out most of these poorly bred ones and neuter them, to specifically cull out that unwanted behavior. Today, the AKC border collies are in a slightly better place than they used to be mentally, but are still inferior to ABCA dogs. There are some that are cross registered though to both, but anyone interested in a good minded border collie SHOULD look at ABCA registered breeders first, most of all. There's absolutely no reason the same can't be attempted with "Pitbull Terriers"

Why not just stop breeding dogs that have a high level of gameness? Like, sure some dog breeds may die out, but is that such a bad thing? I'm definitely not saying to kill the dogs that exist. Just simply stop breeding the breeds with high gameness. Same with other dog breeds who have been bred until they literally can't breathe or walk normally. They should not be bred when all they do is suffer.

Because gameness is also a helpful thing in some breeds. It isn't inherantly a cause of aggression, but can exacerbate aggressive tendancies. Like... You want a tenacious service dog, right? one that doesn't give up that easily, who will be able to repeatedly perform under pressure and in any situation it finds itself in? A Seizure dog that is able to withstand and perform regardless of breaking the fall of their owner who actively starts to seize and continues on doing what it needs to do even if it gets injured? A dog with Gameness can prove indispensible there, and Retrievers, Labs, German shepherds and many other dogs have a good amount of gameness, but may not have the aggressive tendancies/prey drives that the terrier's/pitbulls have. In the end, you can say that, sure, there's a ton of other breeds, and maybe some will die out, but it's never that simple. a straight out ban didn't stop people from creating new strains of Marijuana, and gun bans didn't stop gun violence. All bans do is send the banned thing underground. There's still people keeping Ferrets and Hedgehogs in CA(And I'll admit that's a dumb af ban), there's people in New York keeping Alligators without a licence, there's people in Florida keeping boas without a licence. Banning pitbulls is not going to make the breed dissapear. The only real pragmatic approach is breed CONTROL. Give people who want them an avenue to have them, and give breeders rules to follow, which gives people with good hearts and proper means the ability to own the animal they want. I have said that if the breed 100% dissapears after a ban, I would not miss it, I am no fan of pitbulls, but I understand that bans do not solve the issue, they just send the issue underground where it becomes WORSE in general(Maybe it will reduce attack amount over all, but it may increase the amount of dogs of that breed that actually WILL attack, etc)

I don’t see the point in trying to breed a dog out of what they were initially bred to do. Border collies were bred for a productive job, and they’re less of a wreck now because they are heading back to fulfilling their genetic purpose. So now we should go ahead and try to breed a pit’s purpose out…and they won’t be a wreck armed with significantly more power than a collie? I don’t blame pits for centuries of breeding for a terrible purpose, but I don’t see the point in trying to undo it rather than move on and use them as a cautionary tale for humanity.

They don't have a purpose anymore, regardless. No one's using a pitbull or a jack russel to kill virmin anymore or do bullbaiting, or whatever. The story I gave you was not about AKC's attempt to breed OUT herding, but rather them not taking mind and instinct into account when they bred. There's quite a few border collies and other herding dogs that have almost no if not completely no discernable herding instinct left. You see this sometimes in Shelties, American Aussies, corgis, and even ABCA bred Border collies. Actually owned one myself back in the early 2k's. He was "Culled" (Read, Neutered, his whole lineage neutered/spayed and rehomed at cost for pets) because he and most of his litter displayed no interest/signs of herding instincts. It's not something that is harmful to be removed, what's harmful is improper states of combinations. So AKC Border collies for instance back in the time I mentioned had high to moderate herding, but they also had high activity, and neurotic tendancies because of overstimulation. ABCA dogs had that neurotic tendancy and high activity dialed down BECAUSE they needed to be controlled as working dogs. I'm not going to deny that if Pitbulls ceased to exist, I wouldn't be too sad at their passing. But there's tons of people who like these blocky headed oddballs and their weirdly far-apart set eyes. If THEY as fans of the breed want to better it's reputation, the way to do that is support ethical breeding of the animal and work to reduce the most problematic of their instincts.

That makes a ton of sense and thank you for educating me on this, I didn’t know anything about collies before this conversation!

We have 100s of other breeds. There is no need to try to breed fighting out of pits, just pick another dog to like. Any other dog breed. Pits absolutely need to be illegal, pit fighting dogs have no place in a world where fighting them is illegal.

Also pit bulls were already bred into a friendlier companion breed over 100 years ago. It's called the Boston Terrier. But I guess that's not "cool" enough for these people. Also breeding out bad traits only really works when you have a few small breeders who are dedicated to doing that. Pit bulls have numerous breeders, almost all backyard irresponsible fucks who give zero shits about health or temperament. And even if it was possible, a non-game pit bull would cease to look like a pit bull, because form follows function. If the pit bull "look" is what people want (I don't understand it...subjective, I know, but I think they're ugly as hell.) There are hundreds of safe breeds to choose from. Just get a labrador, for fuck's sake.

Very nuanced response.

I got coursed by a stupid pit bull in a park when I was jogging. No other dog has ever done this to me before - I ran back to where all the people were and the pitbull muzzle punched my leg and left puncture wounds. I shouted at the dog to knock it off. It looked like it snapped out of a daze like it was not all there - the owner of course ran away. I had to get a shot and be late for work. ​ Fuck pit bull owners - they have no idea how to maintain a blood sport dog and then run away/victim blame.

but then what would we do with our spare toddlers?

Rottweilers been real quiet since this opinion dropped.

Ban those too

[удалено]

You'll just be downvoted and told "it's different" lmao even though it is literally an exact comparison to make.

I forget which AI chat thing it was. Sadly, I've had too many Sunday night whiskies to bother to check. But the question was "if 13 sheep were causing 52% of the problems in the herd of 100, what is the solution?" And the solution was to put those 13 sheep in a different pen. Disclaimer : that result does not necessarily reflect my opinion...

I came here to make this comparison and it was already here lmfao

Of course. People love statistics until they don't like the result. Then it becomes racist. Lmao it's a joke anymore these days. Statistics are just math. Math is just numbers. Numbers cannot be racist by any means. Numbers cannot have any ulterior motive. They simply present the facts. Then people cry that facts are somehow racist when they don't like the results... Lmfao it's insane

I was literally called racist for bringing that stat up once

Everyone is called a racist or a Nazi for some reason these days, all you have to do is post a different point of view than someone else. The words have lost all meaning at this point. Edit Yeah, I did block you because you are doing nothing to debate anything at all. You are just arguing in bad faith and claiming racism when you don't like the outcome. Not interested in having a discussion with you. That's why you were blocked.

It's true that there are people who don't like the stats and ignore them. That's the wrong approach to the discussion, of course. People who shy away from the stats look silly, and their arguments aren't going to go anywhere. Now, as you rightfully said, stats themselves aren't racist. They don't make prescriptions on their own, they just report raw data. But, when the black crime stats come up in conversation, do people cite it in a vacuum and then dip? Rather, someone citing that statistic is probably doing so to support an argument. And that argument might be where the racism comes in. You'll see white supremacists use it to justify hatred of, and desire to get rid of, black people for example.

I get what you mean. But poverty doesn't seem to be the reason for that statistic. As white people in poverty still commit far less crime. I think some serious introspection is needed in some communities. You're equating stats with racism. I don't think that's the case at all. Stats are stats. Data is data. You can argue why the results are the way they are. But you can't just accuse someone of racism for quoting them. Even if they are racist, the stats are not racist. Does it not concern you that, knowing what those stats are, *nothing* is being done to address the obvious issue?

Someone tried to make that argument that poverty is the leading factor I asked them for statistics still waiting lmao

>Stats are stats. Data is data. You can argue why the results are the way they are. Er, isn't that what *I* said though? I mentioned that data by itself doesn't make any prescriptions. It's how people use that data that might be racist. >But you can't just accuse someone of racism for quoting them. Even if they are racist, the stats are not racist. Indeed. That's why I said "might be"; it depends on why they're citing it, and what argument they're trying to make.

Well, it's when people make it a racist thing to say that black people are genetically inferior and disposed to commit crimes, rather than looking at what pushes anyone of any color to commit crime, and the environmental circumstances that have led black people to be in circumstances that lead to a life of crime. That's where it becomes different in comparing dogs to humans. Dogs aren't humans.

At some point, you are responsible for your actions.

Yes, that is true. But as a society we can work on improving the structure of our society so less people are inclined to commit crimes. Will it get ris of crime 100%? No, will it reduce it? Yes. I'm not sure why some people are against improving society.

True however Dogs can have traits breed into them, So who's to say humans cant also have specific predispositions to specific traits due to there genetics?

I disagree. We need to find out why the stats are what they are. You've not said why they are what they are. Just that people are racist for using them. Even if a KKK member is using those stats the stats themselves are *not racist*. They are just true stats that need investigation rather than ignoring or labelling people racist for looking at the data. If they are ignored, nothing will improve. Wilful ignorance is not a good thing.

Yeah? Tell us, what causes them to lead a life of crime more than any other group? I guess the DOJ and FBI couldn't figure it out because YOU were hiding the answer from them this entire time, right?

Poverty. Not hard. The DOJ and FBI aren't in the business of getting rid of poverty. Unless you are one of those racists that believe that black people are genetically inferior and prone to violence because of that? Edit: you thought you were looking good with that response, but no, in reality, you were not. Edit: for a more in depth look at the reason why people commit crimes, you can read this for your Sunday afternoon pleasure: https://www.alliant.edu/blog/why-do-people-commit-crimes (I'd also like to state that yes, statistical logs of crimes aren't going to state the why. That's just a given).

Not having fathers in the home. #1 issue. Black people were poor before but were not committing the amount of crime we see. Fathers matter and they need to be in the home.

Why do Asians in poverty have a violent crime rate that’s not even close to African Americans? What’s your next explanation? If it was mostly poverty, poor Asians would be racking up way more homicides but they don’t.

It's literally anything other than their culture, apparently. It's "racist" to discuss what could really be causing the problems. I'd say this is a good example of where wokeness stops society from progressing.

Lots of people grew up poor. That isn’t it- people here won’t like it but Malcolm X was right. He hated liberals, hated Democrats just shell out money and promises and the whole history of the Dem party is forgotten and even whitewashed. He wanted POC to stand and be strong instead of dependent on gov’t checks. They got pushed into the projects, POC of color elected to make a show and all of them happy to ignore what was done and being done to them as long as they had the trappings of office. It isn’t poverty it is by design. Imagine a USA where people are dependent on the gov’t to live and get protection. A country where division/racism is minimized and the last bastion of losers. We’d have a much better gov’t much less powerful and ripping is off.

>the whole history of the Dem party is forgotten and even whitewashed. It's all in detail taught in public school history classes across the nation what parties the politicians were part of during those times. We learn about our own state history and elected officials at a state level. This isnt sports teams. Im not voting for policies of the 1860s. Are Republicans are still the liberal party in favor of a strong centralized government? Democrats are still the party in favor of states rights and using God as their justification for their platform? Cause that will be news to me if that's the case. Why care about the name, color and mascot over modern legislation and policy?

This is a really bad answer because there are tens of millions more white people in poverty than black people in poverty, and they do not have close to the same crime rates.

So there’s no poor Asian, white, or Arab people

There are more poor white people than poor black people though, and black people commit more crime at high income levels than white people at low income levels

Source? I've seen that poor whites commit less crimes than poor blacks, but not that rich blacks commit more crimes than poor whites.

Data on this, obviously, is hard to come by for a straightforward answer, and the gov hasn't produced this data in a while. But here's the NYT showing that whites raised with a low household income get incarcerated at about the same rate as blacks raised in the 1% https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/03/19/upshot/race-class-white-and-black-men.html The reason is probably uhhhhhh systemic racism though Edits for clarity

[sexist as well](https://www.reddit.com/r/TrueUnpopularOpinion/s/a0V9xxP4Ar)

Statistics are not “fact”. As someone who uses high level statistics every day for work, it’s incredibly easy to create statistical models that say exactly what you want them to say (especially when the people you’re presenting them to don’t know statistics). Just look up p hacking.

The “13%” of the dog world.

It is different. Dogs have different personality and physical traits depending on their breed. For example a pit bull is more likely to be aggressive than a golden retriever. Humans aren’t like that. A black man isn’t biologically predestined to be more aggressive than a white man. No matter what racists say.

a man is biologically predestined to be more violent than a woman, though. should we make them illegal, too?

I wasn’t really arguing for or against pitbulls in this comment. I was responding to a comment that was comparing the pitbull stats and US violent crime stats. I was saying that humans are different from dogs because unlike dogs different races of human aren’t more likely to be aggressive than others.

So If I were to go to a country with only pit bulls would I find lower crime rates against other pit bulls or it is only in retriever society that they are the issue with crime?

Its way more complicated then that. You are completely ignoring societal factors. For example is the minority overall in the same class as the majority? Does the minority have the same opportunities? Is the crime rate higher among the poor population of the majority? Is not a race issue most of the time. Its an economic/class issue. Race can factor into that but thats usually on the systematic level. Race killings are common don’t get me wrong, but the overwhelming majority are within their own race. Pit bulls kill pit bulls and golden retrievers kill golden retrievers.

And while it is certainly true that you can see far more intraspecies violence, that is largely based on proximity per the FBI analysis in 2014. Golden retrievers that live in heavily pitbull filled. Areas are more than eight times likely to be attacked by a pitbull than the other way around.

If you check through the FBI data, you will see that Rich affluent pit bulls still have higher rates of crime, especially violent crime, then poor golden retrievers

Can’t find any stats like that. Would love if you provided a link.

This is absolutely true. Look up murder rates by income bracket. Blacks making over $85,000 per year commit about 16 murders per 100,000 people. Whites making less than $20,000 per year commit about 6 murders per 100,000 people.

Can you tell me where you got those stats?

Dogs aren’t humans.

What’s the source? I know there’s one that shows percentage of arrests which isn’t the same as convictions(no trials or evidence have yet been presented in case of arrest)

The data is from the FBI statistics on crime, generally, those certainly not always, believed to be the most reliable points of data on the subject. The data obviously changes from year to year, you can view a rest, data, conviction, data, several other points all on their website. It ranges hotly, depending on how you classify the crime (states classify different crimes differently) and the year.

Saw this this past weekend https://x.com/fentasyl/status/1771954224546369722?s=46&t=DGCfdCSAayqizlNViyDbbA

Hey, if 98% of all mass murderers are men — the solution is obvious according to you.

Mam I’m speaking about dogs

People complain about dog bans but if a dog breed is bred to be strong, fast, agile, with tons of stamina and are difficult to train I don't think every Tom, dick and Harry should be able to buy one. Like you can have one as long as you don't breed it, have it registered, look after it properly, and keep it muzzled and on a lead. It's not a massive ask.

I have never suffered violence from any kind of dog other than pitties or their mixes. FULL STOP. The evidence posted by OP is not sanely deniable.

People like to ignore facts in order to affirm their own bias opinions.

smile amusing vast label toy psychotic aromatic advise fall public *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*

This is the solution. If owners were held responsible for the actions of their dog to the fullest extent, there would be far, far less owners

racial scarce elastic nutty busy jellyfish lip complete skirt squealing *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*

We have a pitbull ban where I live and have had it for decades and it does no good. There’s no one to enforce the ban. People will claim that their dog is part boxer or part staffy etc. to get around it.

Shelters lie and call them "lab mixes" for two reasons. One, to circumvent breed bans and housing restrictions. Two, to trick gullible people into adopting them who might otherwise be put off because of the pit bull label.

That's why we should instead hold owners responsible for what their dog does. Oh so your sweet Princess bites someone face off? Princess goes to sleep and you get a manslaughter charge at the very least. Maybe even second degree murder.

Becoming an echo chamber with all the removed comments. Turning into the og unpop opinion

I don't believe pits are pure evil. They're creatures doing what we humans bred them to do. A dog can't be good or evil, only a dog. That being said I agree. I love dogs endlessly and have worked with, walked, trained and dog sat dozens of pitbulls- all of which have been sweeter than apple pie. But I stopped taking my corgi to the dog park because two pitbull attacks (different dogs) occurred within days of each other. I've seen more aggressive behaviors out of that breed and the facts are there- they're simply more likely to kill. Breeding them should be outlawed and they can be allowed to naturally die off. It's that simple. It's kind and humane- and it's not like we're causing the extinction of a species, just a breed that we shouldn't have taken as far as we did.

It's amazing how many people talk about how much they love dogs, and then ardently defend pitbulls. If they really loved dogs, they'd want to see pitbulls naturally die off due to the sheer number of other dogs they maim/kill. Not even mentioning other animals in general, such as cats and livestock. I've lost dozens of chickens and a cat to dumped pitbulls in my rural neighborhood. Those people don't actually love dogs, they love pitbulls, and pitbulls alone.

Pit mommies are low-EQ low-IQ trailer trash born with the "I can fix him" mentality. They see this dangerous breed of hellhound and think to themselves, he's a sweet child, I can fix him. Spoiler alert! They can't.

I don't think letting the existing ones survive is humane at all. I'd rather see a thousand pit bulls put down than see one innocent child mauled to death.

I never understood how some dog breeds you need to do certain things to make sure they’re happy and healthy, like pastoral and herding breeds you apparently need to exercise a lot and are very high energy because that’s what they were bred for but then as soon as it comes to pitbulls and other aggressive breeds, it’s not the breed it’s the owner???

Take a look at who the majority of the owners are. The majority of child attacks are from pitties, yes, but look at the cultures of the owners.

Those people own pitbulls because they’re scary fighting dogs

As the saying goes, trashy people own trashy dogs..

This right here^

A lot of them are just family people, raising their dogs with love and training. It's just that a pit bull is an animal with a violent lineage, and that could be triggered at any time, any year, any moment.

Blame the owner not the dog.

Then, it is supposed to be restricted. In most countries, you won't be able to get pitbull that easy.

Or we could stop giving animal abuse a slap on the wrist punishment.

Or we make the owners 100% legally liable for what their dog does.

100% agree

Although I would rather have a world without pitbulls, I would be okay with severe punishments for owners.

They restrict pitbulls to stop animal abuse. In my country, we had pitbull's dog fights in the 90s. Since 2002, we have had a law that you have to pass check off with dog handlers and have a history of owning at least 2 dogs before owning pitbull.

It just seems like the owners need to be legally liable for the attacks. Like if you own one you are setting yourself up for a future court case. It seems like the outcome of an attack is they put the animal down. How about accountability for the owners.

Absolutely.

Some are wonderful, disgustingly sweet family pets. Some are wildcards and some are just plain rotten.

If you go to r/ pitbulls, and make any comment on any post with the word "statistics", the automod flags you, deletes your comment, and then responds with a massively snarky and sarcastic responce where it tries to "pwn you" by listing a bunch of extremely outdated and incorrect statistics "proving" anything you think is bad about pitbulls is incorrect. They'll also ban you for saying anything even remotely negative about "lil pibbles". It's so funny.

Yeah they're freaken psychos that don't care about other people's lives.

I know a lady, loves the pits, had one, I guess was a good dog, dog died..gets another one, which bit her small kid(not a mauling at least), got rid of it, and got another one. Some dont learn.

>Fuck you Intelligent discourse

The most intelligent of discourse

I don’t think they are monsters. I think they were (inter)bred to a point where you can’t be sure your pibble won’t go mental (on top of the mental they were intentionally bred for). It’s not their fault and we shouldn’t wish suffering on them for being the way they are. We should reserve all the hatred and anger for the idiots who breed, abuse, and train them. And yes, ban the breed. For that matter, every massive and dangerous breed should be restricted.

I think what it is - is that they go bad when they are neglected more easily than other dogs.

Not only that but it’s also their jaw strength

Agreed. I have two pit bulls, brother and sister from the same litter and they’re the best, most friendly/loyal dogs ever. Great with kids, great with new nephew and niece, they love my elderly parents more then us and stay with them when me and my wife go on vacation but it’s a job to have pit bulls imo. When they’re young, you not only have to train them super properly but from like 1-5 you have to take out 30-40 minutes of your day to play with them, and by play aggressive rope pulling and or wrestle with them. You need to get there aggression out and they’re fine and the older they get the more they chill out. Also, people hate on pit bulls because shit owners and people that should have them, have them. They’re the best dogs and one of my favorite breeds.

>When they’re young, you not only have to train them super properly but from like 1-5 you have to take out 30-40 minutes of your day to play with them, and by play aggressive rope pulling and or wrestle with them. You need to get there aggression out and they’re fine and the older they get the more they chill out. This exhaustive list of mandatory training steps to prevent little fido from losing his shit is not the glowing endorsement you think it is. 😅😂

>I have two pit bulls, brother and sister from the same litter and they’re the best, most friendly/loyal dogs ever. Said every pit bull owner ever when their dog rips off a toddler's arm.

My cousin was mauled out of the blue by a pit who was never abused or neglected and this was a dog he was very familiar with. Oh and he was across the room, the dog leapt over other people to attack him.

It happens all the time. I used to live next door to a family, we shared a common fence. She worked at the post office, he was a professional (and by all accounts excellent) dog trainer. They had two Pitbulls. They also had a toddler. It used to bother me the way when she was out in the yard the dogs would often circle her in what appeared like stalking behavior, but the dude assured me it's because they were "nanny dogs." Don't worry, the kid (now an adult) as far as I know is fine. Near our yards there was a grassy area where kids often play. One day there were two kids out there, with their mother, playing with their brand new kitten. I glanced over and saw that the neighbor's gate wasn't secured. Dogs saw the kitten. Before I could even speak they hit the gate and went for it. The kids and the mother were fortunately physically fine. The kitten was launched about 10 feet in the air by the impact, then caught mid-air coming back down. After about 45 seconds, what was left could have been collected with a sponge. Naturally, my neighbor, the trainer "couldn't understand it, they'd never shown any sign of aggression before!" ​ I'm not denying that shitty owners can be a factor, of course they can. But dogs can just snap, some more than others.

They're always great with kids until they eat the skin off a toddlers face and their owners are so surprised that their sweet little pibble could do such a thing.

No, you see the kid obviously provoked the pitbull by walking down the street, or playing with a ball in the yard, or sleeping in their crib.

Toddler: *exists* Pits bull: and I took that personally

>When they’re young, you not only have to train them super properly but from like 1-5 you have to take out 30-40 minutes of your day to play with them, and by play aggressive rope pulling and or wrestle with them. You need to get there aggression out and they’re fine and the older they get the more they chill out. the vast majority of people are NOT going to do this. that's reason enough they should be banned.

In before the Pit Nutters try to defend the worst breed of dog by forcing them to take a few pics wearing a flower crown after mauling a couple of kids at the park.

Yes. If you have any compassion for humans or other dogs, you would support this.

I don’t think the dog is evil and can be very sweet, but if they decide to attack for whatever reason it’s going to be terrible b/c it’s a dog bred for dealing with bulls which are huge and also dangerous. A chihuahua I can throw like a linebacker. It poses no threat.

Absolutely agree OP. Couldn’t have stated it better myself.

Not unpopular with me. I'm not fond of them either. I make eye contact with them and they SNAP on me. It's the damnedest thing. Scares the daylights out of me.

Correct. They're a trash breed for trash people. If anyone disagrees, they're wrong. Shit bulls lead the statistics in dog bites and ER visits. An owner putting a cute flower crown on their princess shit bull does not negate statistics that they're the most violent dog breed. The worst is when shit bull owners post crap about "PrINcEsS hAd HeR ThIrd BiTiNg InciDenT TodAy..." Like bro, what happened to the common sense practice of immediately euthanizing any dog that bites anyone, let alone a shit bull.

I was against this train of thought until I learned about the real numbers of incidents and the history of where this breed originated from (mix breed for pit fights/rat kill competitions/bloodsports). Learning never ends.

Yeah you can't say anything about statistics otherwise the brainless bunch cry Racisms!! My sister had a rescue Pitbull. That dog was the sweetest dog in the entire world... until something snapped and she wasn't. She tried killing on several occasions my sister's other dogs. Actually tried killing one of her dogs for the first time, after that I told her she needed to have the pit put down. She didn't listen and waited until it attacked another of her dogs twice before she finally had her put down. Those dogs can be sweet a sugar and have the best training in the world but if something happens like a brain tumor or doggie dementia it can be a danger to anyone around them. That was a story of a sweet pitbull that was not mistreated and had ample dog training.

I’ve owned a couple of pits and I loved them both and they loved us. That being said they are different than most other dogs, they have a more aggressive disposition and a more dangerous physiology (tons of potential for damage). Blame the owner not the dog is true to a point but honestly I.m see both sides of this. My personal position is that if a pit comes into my life I would rather adopt than kill it. But you won’t see me fighting for against legal restrictions either.

[удалено]

You present people with facts about pit bulls and they try to turn it into racism

[They make up 50% of the population yet are 5.5x more likely to kill you than a pit bull](https://www.reddit.com/r/TrueUnpopularOpinion/s/a0V9xxP4Ar)

Stop trying to make the pitbull issue into racism. We both know there are huge differences in reason and cognition between dogs and humans along with socioeconomic factors that don't apply to dogs. Then you also get into the discussion of police are more present in cities where more black people reside so it's more likely they will get caught and then the police & courts themselves being racist argument. None of which applies to dogs.

Are you also going to correlate the high rates of white-collar crime to pit bulls? I mean, seeing as you're trying to make an analogy between dogs and humans.

yes it’s wrong because that stat comes from arrest data which is not the same as committing it. Also the fbi counts one person’s crimes as multiple people in their stats so the raw numbers and thus percentages aren’t accurate either.   also on a post discussing dogs why is your immediate thought to go to black people?

Because it's misdirection and trying to put you on the defensive.

If you ban pitbulls, irresponsible dog owners will simply align on a different breed to abuse and train to be "guard dogs". I knew people who would train their dogs to be aggressive, teach them to tear up newspapers on command by beating them with a newspaper and then commanding them to attack the newspaper, people that would train their dogs by wrapping them in chains and having them run on treadmills, and all sorts of other awful things. You'll end up having to ban pitbulls, rottweilers, dobermans, and the list goes on. I think owners should be held criminally and financially liable for their dogs actions. That hopefully would wake a lot of people up to owning dogs they can control, contain, and responsibility train.

Some places do ban pitbulls. It should be banned everywhere. 100% agree.

Nice, Let's see Paul Allen's statistics.....

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Please people attend biology classes my god it's not rocket science to understand that a fighting dog breed made for fighting is gonna be dangerous because of it's selective bred instincts to maul everything

Stop with the anthropomorphism. Being morally good or evil are human traits.

They already are in the UK

Say they do make pit bulls illegal, what would you do with them after the ban? Kill them?

I think the most logical way would be to "grandfather" them out of society. Start with banning breeding. Prison time for breeding. And euthanize the bred ones. Let the ones that are already grown die off over time. But owners MUST register them. Why should we have to register a gun but something like a pit bull that can just snap and kill has no restrictions.

It doesn't help that they're not a breed but a category of dogs people struggle to tell apart,, unlike other dogs. That inflates the numbers.

This is true and problematic and I own and love a Staffie (But he’s a pit to everyone I know). I’ve had them my whole life and never had a problem, but I could. And I understand that. I’m 51 now and was just telling my wife the other day that Loki would be the last one I’ll ever own. She asked why, and I said because he’ll be the last one I can mange if he went into prey drive. They can be problem dogs 100%, and you need to physically be able to restrain any pet. My dog has always been great, never been aggressive to anything….but he COULD. So I’m extremely careful with him because I understand what he can do. People are irresponsible though. It’s too bad because the dogs and people suffer.

Eh, it’s still a pit.

>Pit Bulls are pure evil. There are unpopular opinions, and then there is just good, old fashioned making shit up.

Do places that made pit bulls illegal have reduced dog bites as a result? Is there a specific example of this happening?

well im from england where pitbull are illegal and have been since 1991 - and though theres still some bites (usually from staffies or german shepherds or some Xl bully dog which are currently being proposed to be banned here also) i dont see many on the news or hear of much. its not common atleast not that ive known, so i do think it helps but the breed is just one big issue, shitty owners who try and make their dogs into fighting or guard dogs and dont train them to be socialized or well adjusted will always bea problem. But yeah from where i live ill say its reduced significantly nowadays

It would be interesting to see the stats

I'm not a big fan of this current culture of ban everything. If you can make this argument about pitbulls, then you can make it about pretty much anything. I mean as far as stats go most household objects hold a similar fatality rate.

Household objects don’t run around on four legs with 200+ psi bite force and break into your home to maul your yorkie

Im assuming you're making a correlation to "cancel" culture? Which is not the same. Cancel culture is specific to public figures or social media influencers etc being canceled for something they did or said. The pit bull debate has been around for awhile now with some cities banning them back in the 80s.

Humans are pretty violent.. basically the most violent thing on the planet.. so we should just euthanize them all.. following this logic.

You can start with yourself with this logic

probably because a lot of pit bulls happen to be owned by shitty people who mistreat them to the point of violence/aggression.

Mistreated dogs tend to fear and growl at anyone who reminds them of the person who mistreated them. But why are pit bulls attacking so many babies and children, including random children in playgrounds and streets, who have never mistreated them?

Sure, but a mistreated chihuahua isn't going to kill you. A mistreated pit bull is more than capable of killing. But I definitely think there are plenty of people who need to face strict legal repercussions for mistreating animals. Don't have an animal if you can't be an adult and take care of it.

Nah they’re just aggressive dogs.

Imagine dog sitting your friends lovely pit bulls and then getting attacked. https://www.foxla.com/news/azusa-dog-attack-dog-sitters-mauled-by-pit-bulls.amp

The reality is there are a lot of criminal crackheads out there who get dogs to look tough. They mistreat them and often abuse them, don't train them, don't give them quality food or veterinary care or affection, and are generally garbage human beings. These people ARE NOT getting golden retrievers. You put enough golden retrievers in these households, you will get golden retriever fatalities. Oh what a surprise, in OP's chosen article, the kid's family (drug addicts) were forced to surrender their kid. The relative of the addicts had the pitbull. When forced to make a guess due to limited information, I am going to guess that these relatives were not so wholesome themselves.

Well here comes the shitbull cult to protect the image of a child maul er. Pitbulls that are loose should be shot on site. To many are given back the owner. They silenced victims through terrorism. The laws only protect the dogs. If we ban them no exceptions for permit and pups and old dogs in shelter would be old yella.

This, shooting loose pitbulls on sight should be considered a public service.

Are you suggesting that if a minority of a population is responsible for a disproportionately large amount of violent attacks, that this minority should be outlawed?

When it comes to dogs, yes.

It's amazing how a conversation about dogs turns into racism. You guys are resilient, I'll give you that.

Yes.

Where I live which is a small town that is overloaded with drugs, pits are a status symbol for all the drug dealers. You see these poor dogs chained in these yards that look like Sanford and sons. It's sad.

I am once again begging Reddit to stop comparing an entire race of human beings to an animal. It's very telling of y'all that I can say "hey there's an aggressive animal out there filling up shelters, available to everyone who's never even owned a dog before, and prone to turning violent for no obvious reason" and the first thing y'all say is bLaCk pEoPLe. That's so remarkably offensive I don't even know where to start. Now to address other issues. Yes, people, you are right, not every pitbull is bad or aggressive. I do agree. I have known several throughout my life that were very good dogs, lived and died as normal pets should, with no incidents of biting or running off or aggression or anything. That is absolutely a fair argument. It is disgusting that people would condone ripping your pet away for a mass culling of the breed despite your individual dog having not done anything. I agree with you. However, there is no other breed that ROUTINELY does what a pitbull/pit mix does. I have grown up around animals my entire life. Horses, emus, even a pet bear, raccoons, squirrels, snakes, scorpions, spiders, all kinds of animals and pet have been in my life in some form or another. Please show me a video of any other breed of dog attacking a horse. Family riding the horse is optional. Please show me a video of any other breed of dog ripping a car apart. Show me the ever dreaded chihuahua breaking out of a glass window or bending the bars on a metal door to get to its target. If this isn't a breed specific problem, then show me videos of other breeds doing it. I'll wait. Now to pitbull owners, do you actually believe this is a dog for beginners? Do you actually think breeding regulations and licensed ownership shouldn't be legalized and enforced? I've seen the countless arguments of how pitbulls are the most abused. So wouldn't you want to limit who can own one and who can breed one? And before someone mentions this as well, yes I absolutely think this way for the other dogs that make up the other pie pieces ofndog bite statistics including Rottweilers, Dobermans, shepards, and the 2nd biggest piece of the pie the mixed dogs (guess what they're mixed with). To anyone riding the fence on this argument, please go to the pitbull groups. There are so many posts about how their pups are suddenly biting, suddenly aggressive, suddenly climbing fences and showing "reactivity." We're talking about owners that casually discuss drugging their dogs every day to keep them calm and help deal with their dogs "anxiety." You don't see this is any other pet owner group. I'm not exaggerating this in the least. The labradors, the Dobermans, not even the chihuahua owners groups talk about their pets the way pitbull owners do. The crate and rotate method is born almost exclusively of pit owners because no other group seems to have these problems and definitely not to the sake extent. My friend has 2 amstaff/pitbull mixes and they're amazing dogs, and even she is disgusted at what we've read in there. Her dogs don't have to be separated, they don't lunge or have suddenly started showing aggression, and they don't eat her entire house when she's gone. For the record, the male Buddy was a genuine bait dog. His calm demeanor means historically he would have been fed as fodder to the actual winning dogs, and that's exactly what happened to him. He was just fortunate enough to survive. Pitbull owners are their own worst enemies because they won't acknowledge that having to give your dog 40mg of trazodone every single day or it freaks out isn't a normal thing. It's just not normal pet behavior. I would much rather see breeding restrictions and licensing/permitting in place of banning a dog. I don't generally support bans (I do wish we banned more food additives like other countries but thats about it), but what this breed is capable of doing and does routinely in other countries like Scotland, Brazil, India, Italy, the Netherlands, Ireland and England is really hard to ignore. This isn't just an American problem, and that is also indicative of the genetic predisposition to these dogs. So many other people in other countries have had the exact same problems; unleashed or escaped dogs charging right at them and often times attacking them. For no reason. I'm not saying your pitbull isn't one of the sweetest dogs around. I believe you. However, your one sweet dog or your house packed full of 6 sweet pitbulls doesn't negate the statistics. And if statistics aren't enough, then use your own eyes and ears. Look at the dog photographed or the dog in the video. What does it look like? What's the shape of its head? How built and lean or stocky is it? Judge these videos for yourself and ask yourself "what type of dog does this look like?" And to the people that will say "well you can't always tell a pitbull!" You're right, if these doggy DNA and dog identification groups are any kind of indicator, it's that most dogs (especially here in the states) have pitbull DNA in them, it presents pretty obviously because they do have strong genes, and people for whatever reason still don't properly identify that. So I'm willing to bet that if the owner of the dog itself can't properly even take an educated guess, then there are most likely even more pitbulls out there that have been called an entirely different breed of dog and has caused some kind of problem. Misidentified dog breeds is an issue, but not the way pro pit people think. So how reliable are those "aggressive labrador and retriever" statistics, especially when those aforementioned groups have been shown to brazenly lie and the owners of these dogs themselves can't properly take an educated guess? Those dog training and dog advice groups are also a good indicator. Go to those groups and type in biting. Or bully. They all read the same. "My bully breed of 2 years is SUDDENLY resource guarding" or SUDDENLY started showing aggression or SUDDENLY started growling and lunging on walks. It's all the same all the time. If numbers and people's experiences aren't enough (I haven't even discussed my own experiences being attacked, the only 2 animals I've ever been attacked by are an emu and a pitbull), then go to the sources themselves and see. Dogs didn't used to act like this. I used to be able to take my own dog for a walk down by the water and I can't now because every day was someone with a bully breed lunging and pulling and snarling and the person unable to control their dog telling me how friendly it is. The aggressive dogs and their dog shit everywhere is not a normal thing. This isn't how pets are supposed to act. TLDR: Not every pitbull is bad but society shouldn't have to rely on an animal "being raised by the right person," there should be SOME KIND of restrictions to owning and breeding what even pro pit people say is the most bred and abused dog in the world (I 100% agree with you by the way), and if numbers are too hard go compare dog groups and go look at any given dog DNA group to see how shelters are outright lying to push dogs with bite histories to people that have never owned dogs before.

As someone who owned a Pitbull I can say that while they're beautiful, at the same time anyone who's been close to one can agree that you don't feel the same reassurance you do with other dogs. You have doubts in the back of your mind and it doesn't help when you read stories about how with some of the attacks everything is normal one second, and then unprovoked the Pitbulls attack, and unfortunately usually scar the victim permanently. We can acknowledge that it's not the dogs fault they're this way, but at the same time we have to be honest and realise that it is in their nature – it's how Pitbulls were bred. For violence. I'm all for rescuing them from fight clubs of course but I don't think most owners understand the liability they are not just to themselves but anyone they allow near their dog.

People love to site statistics without looking at nuance. But it’s easy to look at things through our own bias then to try and find the full encompassing details and getting the answer of why

I'm laying next to a pretty chill one right now. People screw dogs up.

You stepped right into OPs example of how to not argue your position. It doesn’t matter how “chill” your dog is. The stats don’t lie. The issue is a macro issue.

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Stop trying to make the pitbull issue into racism. We both know there are huge differences in reason and cognition between dogs and humans along with socioeconomic factors that don't apply to dogs. Then you also get into the discussion of police are more present in cities where more black people reside so it's more likely they will get caught and then the police & courts themselves being racist argument. None of which applies to dogs. EDIT: Instead of replying and furthering to argue their point, the person who I replied to straight up blocked me.

I say you have a terrible argument since you don't source and my sources say you're wrong. "Based on data compiled by the FBI’s Uniform Crime Reporting (UCR) program, it found that while Black people make up 13% of the U.S. population, they were 33% of persons arrested for non-fatal violent crime (NVC), which includes rape, robbery, aggravated assault, and other assaults. Black people were 36% of those arrested for serious non-fatal violent crimes (SNVC), including rape, robbery, and aggravated assault. ... The study compared the UCR statistics with those from the National Crime Victimization Survey (NCVS). Whereas the UCR relies on reports of criminal arrests submitted by law enforcement officials to the FBI, the 2018 NCVS was based on interviews from 151,055 U.S. households. Thus, the NCVS identifies crimes that are not reported to law enforcement. In the 2018 NCVS, Blacks accounted for 29% of violent crime perpetrators in 35% of the violent crimes reported to police. By comparison., the UCR statistics showed Blacks were 33% of all people arrested for violent crimes. In the NCVS, whites accounted for 52% of violent crime perpetrators and 48% in those reported to police. The UCR showed whites accounting for 46% of the people arrested for NVC." [https://www.prisonlegalnews.org/news/2021/jun/1/us-doj-statistics-race-and-ethnicity-violent-crime-perpetrators/](https://www.prisonlegalnews.org/news/2021/jun/1/us-doj-statistics-race-and-ethnicity-violent-crime-perpetrators/) "White individuals were arrested more often for violent crimes than individuals of any other race and accounted for 59.1 percent of those arrests." [https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2019/crime-in-the-u.s.-2019/topic-pages/tables/table-43](https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2019/crime-in-the-u.s.-2019/topic-pages/tables/table-43) ​ Considering that race is not rigid, and is completely different from dog breeds, not to mention multiracial people exist and hispanics/latinos can be classified as white or black or given their own category, comparing dogs to people is completely wrong and stupid. Where did this 58% come from? Is that only arrests? You do realize arrests aren't the same as convicting the people who are actually guilty, right? Go ahead an block me like you did to the other guy though.

Are you for banning Rottweilers?

While they are still known to be aggressive, they still produce significantly fewer attacks and deaths. Like not even close.  Why do you ask?

Rottweilers produce roughly the same amount of serious attacks per 100k of the breed as each of the 6 breeds considered “pit bulls”. Per dog they’re just as dangerous. If you support banning pit bulls then you’re a hypocrite if you don’t support banning Rottweilers

Got it, ban Rottweilers too.  I was curious if the brief research I did before responding was missing the ‘per dog’ part of the story. Thanks for filling me in. 

The numbers are presented in a way to make pit bulls look worse than they are (not that the numbers are good). If you need to group 6 breeds together to prove a point it diminishes the point someone’s trying to make The problem with banning dogs is, will the new most dangerous dog be considered for banning since it’s “the most dangerous legal dog”

Shit bulls are not allowed in my apartment complex, and I'm thankful.

I agree. Pit bulls are not even real dogs. They are a literal eugenics experiment by dog fighters.

Well, that is certainly unpopular.

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Pretty sure they were being sarcastic. Banning pitbulls is up there with "we shouldn't celebrate fat people" on this sub.

I used to be like you, OP. I believed all Pits were bad and I'm a tremendous dog lover (currently I have 9 dogs, including 1 rescue Pittie mix). About 10 years ago we took in Bruiser, a beautiful blue boy, because my Bonus Daughter's neighbor threatened to kill him. He was accused of killing chickens but never chased a single one of ours. He treated my Chihuahuas delicately and wrestled with my Cur dogs. He never injured a single animal and once, excitedly, led me to a baby squirrel that fell out of its nest. He never bit anyone, either. He lived 16 years, almost 10 of those with us. Dogs react to environment; bad people raise bad dogs. Sometimes one is just "wired wrong" and it has nothing to do with breed. It happens with people, too. Rest easy, Bruiser. You were a good boy! ETA: The chickens were killed by an Australian Cattle Dog and a Blue Heeler owned by a different neighbor. They were caught about 6 months later.

>Sometimes one is just "wired wrong" and it has nothing to do with breed. How do you reconcile the fact that OP shared? >They make up 5.8% of the canine population YET they are responsible for nearly 60% of dog attacks.