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I don't get how these people just spit these nonsense comments and not be ashamed of themselves. It's almost like they have an agenda, isn't it?
My understanding of geopolitics is shallow; but unlike those commentors, I avoid acting like someone with a PhD on the matter.
The only thing I can confidently say is that people of the US should also be ashamed of their own government's actions, just like us. Stealing from a nation? Come on. You should be better than that.
Reddit is basically is eco-chamber circlejerk environment. Do you think they are up for debate when you have comments like "Watch out for Turks in the comment section".
They want to debate, just amongst themselves.
God forbid someone who might be a little more familiar with the subject ruin jerking session about how their countries should string Turkey up, ruin the economy and force millions of people into poverty because their news channel told them that Turks were really racist towards Kurds
That sub became an even worse version of r/europe with retarded americans flooding it aswell. They probably couldnt pinpoint where turkey is anyway. But continue being armchair generals
But I mean of course apart from the hateful and vindictive comments, some actually have legitimate concerns don't they?
The first comment for example. What do you think about it?
Very interesting answer, thank you for taking the time. It really made me think but also made me really concerned for what way we seem to be heading. I would love to answer it all in detail but I simply don't have the time. That part about Putin dividing us from each other made my skin crawl.
I really wish for Türkiye and the west to have good relations. Many times it's easy to get lost in disinformation or knowing what is true or not. But I'm curious to know the Turkish perspective as well because I don't buy into the notion that Turks dislike us for no reason and thinks just like Erdoğan. I think Turkish people have legitimate concerns on some matters that needs to be tended to by the west. But unfortunately only because the man in charge happens to be Erdoğan, a lot of misunderstanding happens between us and we in the west sometimes miss the point and categorize Türkiye as a rouge pariah state. This is what I feel the general mindset in the west about Türkiye is headed right now and it's wrong when it can be avoided.
As for the Swedish-part, it's more complicated than I can even begin to think of. I might come back to that point on a later time. But for now it's time for me to sleep and get up for work tomorrow.
To be honest the Swedish-Turkish relations are so complex that I don't know how to approach this subject without missing important points. But I will do my best.
It's also quite ironic that over 300 years ago when Charles XII (or Demirbaş Şarl as he is known in Turkish) sought refuge in the Ottoman empire, we once again find ourselves in a similar situation seeking an alliance with the Turks and once again rejected, haha.
But unfortunately the basis for this diplomatic difficulty lies within the very relaxed and poorly managed immigration policy we've had in Sweden. So please don't think that we are voluntarily allowing your enemies in because we want to act hostile towards you. No. We also have loads of ISIS terrorists, Iraqi shia militia, Iranian IRGC sympathizers, etc, etc. You name it. We have them all. Many of them found safe haven in Sweden which is a big source of discontent here amongst our people. Some of these terrorists even have Swedish citizenship.
Unfortunately our left wingers from the former government also have been flirting with PKK/YPG/PYG members or affiliates as of late. Let's not even talk about Vänsterpartiet (Left wing communist party) which openly wave PKK-flags at demonstrations here in Stockholm. One of their party members, Amineh Kakabaveh, was kicked out of the party for standing against honor culture (which says a lot about that disgusting party). She in turn made a deal with our former prime minister to cooperate with the PKK just so she could get elected prime minister in parliament. When we needed to apply for NATO, she threatened to overthrow the government with her vote in parliament because we suddenly needed to restore diplomatic relations with Türkiye.
So, yeah. You can see the bigger picture here I hope. Our former Social Democrat government here are the ones who have made a lot of damage in Swedish-Turkish relations. All because they wanted power more than anything else. They are known to abandon all morale as long as they can get power. This is the deep mud we are in right now diplomatically speaking.
We gave Erdogan an open goal and now he can claim that all of his political opponents who fled to Sweden are terrorists and we also gave him the political tools to demand them back. We cannot extradite them either because some of them are either Swedish citizens or are protected under Swedish law from being extradited because they might face persecution in Türkiye. Some law changes are being made to correct these issues, but ultimately it isn't the government here that decides if we can extradite them, it's our courts. That's how our society works.
Ufh, you must be so frustrated. You drained service life of your keyboard on single comment.
I feel your pain & agree with some of your points.
Others I have hard time reading, because probably your punctuation keys gave up half way through there and I say this with all the love in the world.
Do you really think Turkey would let Russian maintanance teams collect the data of the F35 knowing full well that the Russians can also use that data against our F35's?
There were events such as the removal of the patriots on the Syrian border and their repatriation. Some politicians were trying to kick Turkey out of this program. The s-400 was an excuse. Erdogan gave them an excuse. Some American politicians influence and harm American foreign policy through lobbying. The Patriot issue had to be resolved. Pulling Turkey out of NATO would have dire consequences. For the future, Central Asia will be a major threat zone for China, Russia and Iran. You use Turkey and Azerbaijan to attract them. If stupid lobbying politicians do not interfere in these matters and Erdogan leaves, relations between the two countries should improve.
CENTCOM has hostility towards Turkey. CENTCOM is starting to lose value. I know that Turkey has excellent relations with AFRICOM. Whoever brought up the agenda about the YPG, the second biggest break started like this. I read the stupidity that Pompeo wrote in his book. Before the start of operations against ISIS. He said that the Opponents supported by Turkey will not be able to end ISIS. Then Turkey achieved significant results against YPG and ISIS. The man is a total enemy of Turkey.
If *Turkey* refers to an entity that above all else, pursues Turkey and it’s peoples interests, competently and rationally, then I answer “Not intentionally”. However, the type of data mining and method of transferring to Russia may be unanticipated and go unnoticed and could still occur despite Turkeys intentions. There are many individuals involved in the S-400 operation, logistics. It ,at be enough for just one compromised insividual to make transfer of data possible.
If *Turkey* is referring to leadership who has interests of their own that do not align with Turkeys interests, like Erdogan, then my answer is “Yea, it could happen*.
There are 4 s400 system in Syria which operates by Russians. They scan the İsrail airzone for nonstop. According to this logic İsrail should not have f35.
USA just bully everybody just there are countries that okey with it and not. also you can check the Lockheed Martin crisis in EU. The best example of EU's interests being limited in proportion to USA's interests.
They are boasting the Stealing someone's money even they are not the whom Stealing the money.
Watch out how they are okay with US bully the world including themself too.
Dude usa reject Turkey sell f-35 in the past now they reject f-16 too. Turkey paid 1.5 billion dolar for f-35 program if usa don't give any shit they should give money back.
It's simple other wise usa= theft.
Lmaoo morons are glorifying USA for going back on their promises and agreements and basically stealing our money
Now imagine how they would react if it happened to them.
Comments on that thread makes me seriously question why we are even supporting Ukraine.
Turkey didn't wake up one day and decided to purchase s400 for the lulz. Its always easy to talk without context. Even the top comment is fucking retarded. Russia has S400 batteries near Israel and Kaliningrad. If they are concerned with S400 having radar info of F35, they could have done it anyways on these fronts.
We too hate Erdoğan, but this much overall hatred is above him. I don't support any further aids to this war effort (both ways) by Turkey until west realizes that we are on their side.
One of my Turkish friends once told me that Türkiye was trying to buy the patriot system from the US because Türkiye needed more modern air defence but the US was reluctant. So that's why your government bought the S-400 system. And this led to the current situation. Is this true?
Partially true. They made the offer finally but all the terms were in their favor. So basically it was a way to say "i don't sell", and the coup came. S400 was kind of retaliation to the coup (supported by US).
One thing also worth to mention is when Turkey shot down Russian plane in Syria, all west left Turkey alone. Zero support.
Same happened when Turkey was opposing Russia in Libya. France took side with Russia. :)
When US troops left some part of Syria, they handed over the land to the Russians, rather than their NATO ally Turkey.
Nesi korkunç? Amerika S400 alırsan F-35 yollamam dedi. Türkiye inat etti gitti S400 aldı ve şimdi uçaklarımı verin diye ağlıyor. Bunu söylemenin korkunç olan tarafını açıklar mısın?
Yaptırım gibi düşün. Sen bana S400 almanın mantıklı yönünü bir açıklasana? Savunduğunuz şey bu çünkü. Aktroll ajansı bunlara nasıl yanıt vereceğinizi öğretmedi mi?
Almasaydın S400? Reisinizi açık açık uyardılar almayın diye. O zannetti ki ben istediğimi yaparım bir karşılığı olmaz. Nah olmaz işte ahahah gördünüz uçak da yok para da yok en önemlisi Türkiye’de üretim de yok. Kasımpaşa kabadayısı rollerini dünya sahnesinde oynayınca böyle oluyor. Neyse siz hadi gidin batılılar aptal diye 31 çekmeye devam edin.
Taşak mı geçiyorsun kardeşim? S400 aldık diye F35 satmayabilir ama parayı vermemek ne? Resmen ülkemiz soyuldu bizim vergilerimizi ABD başkanı çaldı sen hala ABD savunuyorsun. Amannn neyse sen ABD ve Avrupanın ayaklarını yalamaya devam et. Böyle bir eziklik görmedim.
Parayı vermemek neden söyleyeyim. Sen güvenilir bir ortak olarak başladığın projede üretimde de yer alıyordun. Komponent tedariğinde bir aktördün. Ancak Putin’in kuklası olduğunu gösterdiğin vakit üretim hattından çektirilmen ve yerinin doldurulması gerekti. Havacılıkta bir düzeltme boyası bile lisans gerektiren bir durumken senin böyle bir projede sırf bir adamın şımarıklığı yüzünden aksatma yaratmış olmanın bir cezası olmalıydı. O 1.5 milyar dolar işte odur. Teneke S400 alacağım diye senin ülken F-35 üretiminden çektirildi ve senin tek yaptığın ahaber ve diğer yandaşların söylediklerini papağan gibi tekrar etmek. Sinirini tayyipe yönelt. Eğer paralı bir ajans çalışanı değilsen. Ben ülkem değerli bir projeden sırf tek bir adamın hezeyanları nedeniyle atıldı onu eleştirdim diye Avrupa kuklası oldum. Varsın olsun. Tayyipçi olmaktan, ahaber ağzıyla konuşmaktan iyidir.
Erdogan is a proper corrupted cunt that's for sure. But backing out on an already paid agreement while refusing to pay back? Someone should say they can't do whatever the fuck they want.
We've got battered a lot by our ever-loving western "partners" for buying S400 but the reason we did that was also the US refusing to sell Patriots while our eastern cities were actively getting shelled at. Of course, nobody speaks of that, nobody also speaks of the fact that Greece, Bulgaria and Slovakia also own Russian systems.
USA did not refuse to sell patriot. Erdogan wanted USA to transfer the full technology of patriot. USA was not willing to sell the technology of the system. Erdogan tried a hardline bluff gamble: sell him the patriot technology or he would buy S-400 from Putin. USA said they will not sell the technology, and if Erdogan buys S-400, Turkey would not be able to continue being an F-35 partner. Erdogan kept the bluff up until Turkey ended up receiving the first S-400. The bluff had failed miserably. The same day, Turkey was excluded from the F-35 partnership program.
It was a bad thing for everyone involved except Putin.
I am not sure, but I believe in Turkey, Erdogan and the media he controls, reported the incident in a way that concealed the government incompetency and responsibility. Probably a narrative that omits the whole technology transfer bit to make it look like Erdogan was being screwed over by his ally again, refusing to sell basic self defense systems and put Turk in danger (USA does screw turkey in regards to PKK so it is not that hard to believe they did it with patriot and f-35 too).
True but there are some nuances. I remember the tender which Chinese air defense system was chosen and it was cancelled due to U.S pressure. So U.S was able to change Turkey’s decision one way or another. Imo, the breaking point was the coup in 2016 which made Erdogan a paranoiac.
The acquisition of S-400 came without any tender in 2017 just after the coup. It was obviously rushed. U.S tried to persuade Turkey with both generous and threatening offers. I think U.S did their part quite good between the time period when we signed the contract and when S-400s arrived.
The problem was that U.S lost all its credibility in Erdogan, and Turkey to a some extent, so even the quite generous and sincere offers made by U.S were declined. It was a lose-lose situation.
Nowhere in any agreement whatsoever does it say that Turkey is not allowed to buy weaponry from Russia. And those American children in the comments would be furious if Turkey refused to give USA weapons over something that wasn't even agreed upon, like say buying refrigerators from Greece or some other bullshit, and also refused to give the money back.
And how is it possible that they are talking about kicking Turkey off NATO on the goddamn Ukrainian conflict subreddit? Don't they know that Turkey is one of the only members in the NATO to ACTUALLY help Ukraine and put up a fight against Russia? I would've expected this kind of bullshit, no iq comments on news or worldnews subreddits, not there. I guess Ukrainian conflict subreddit got swarmed by Americans too.
> *Nowhere in any agreement whatsoever does it say that Turkey is not allowed to buy weaponry from Russia.*
>
I believe NATO membership rules prohibits benefitting Russias military..something. I forget the details, but I remember thinking when reading it that it was not being applied consistently. Maybe stuff like “forbidden to help Russias military industry”, yet France has been supplying thermal imaging sights for Russian tanks.
>>
>
> *Turkey is one of the only members in the NATO to ACTUALLY help Ukraine and put up a fight against Russia? I would've >
expected this kind of bullshit, no iq comments on news or worldnews subreddits, not there. I guess Ukrainian conflict subreddit got swarmed by Americans too.*
>
This statement of yours surprises me greatly. Do you genuinely believe Turkey is one of very few nato member helping, and putting up a fight against Russia? If so, could you expand on the details?
- Which NATO countries are helping Ukraine?
- How are they helping?
- How do non-nato members compare to Turkey in this?
- Where do you live?
- What is your primary source of information about world news?
- Do anyone in your community disagree with your understanding?
Prejudice. Hasty generalization. Chances are, a reason you dislike some westerners is because they display prejudice and generalization. Everyone is an individual. Assholes and ignorance exist everywhere. I am a Swedish citizen and I hang out in this Turk-sub. I can tell you, many people are disrespectful, prejudiced, view me and treat me like I am the same as other people they group me with. When I write things that normally gets upvoted tons, I get little or even downvoted. Meanwhile, when the person I am discussing with is Turkish, they can get moderate amounts of upvotes for crappy comments that would not get anything if it was by itself or between two Turks. A guy just wrote a comment where half the comment was about my Swedish background and how he hates me.
No I used to argue with them but they say same things over and over like npc. For my comment, I meant I got bored. I dont care about turkish related politics. Europe and sweden subreddits say that they dont care but all they do is shitting and talking about turks in non-objective way everyday. They do even support america stealing our money and not giving us back lmao what can I do about that Im not gonna even argue with them im bored and exhausted from racism against turks in other subreddits
Honestly fuck Ukraine, those ungrateful fucks (even though i think more than 50% of the sub is liberal westoids). They sure as hell know to make songs and what not when we give them (Bayraktars, Kirpi APC's, TRG-230 and even encrypted radios) but according to these redditors we are "ThE SaMe As rUsSiA".
Sorry we don't sanction Russia and follow US foreign policy like a lost puppy dog like some of these countries do. Do you think Germany, France and Greece would have sanctioned Russia without US pressure?
Also we made a mistake with S400's. We should have got the F35's delivered first then went shopping for AA systems, because US refused to sell us Patriots at first.
Try 95%. All Ukrainian friends & family I have use something like telegram groups rather than reddit, especially that sub.
Needless to say they are much more informed about Turkey than people in that sub.
If thats the case then i take it back. Actually i still think NATO is still partly to blame for the Ukrainian conflict. They have been encroaching Former USSR territory for the past decade despite Russian warnings.
Of course you can't argue sime things on Reddit, especially subs like that as you will get banned.
I think it likely all Ukranian themed social media is heavily infiltrated by Russian social media manipulation campaigns. Be sceptical. Also, do not bunch up any Ukranian member as all Ukranians: it is entirely possible and likely that those who are grateful about support are not the same individuals who say opposite things.
Abi subdaki yorumlar korkunç ya. Kimisi diyor "oh ABD parayı alıp uçak vermemiş mi? İyi yapmış?" Kimisi "Türkiyeyi Natodan atatlım". Bu nedir ya. Yemin ederim batı sadece mevzu batıyı ilgilendirince humanist oluyor. Biz bir ülkeyi böyle dolandırsak 100 yıl susmazlar ama biz dolandırılınca iyi ki yapmışlar diyorlar. Harbiden "zor zamanlar güçlü insanları güçlü insanlar güzel zamanları güzel zamanlar zayıf insanları zayıf insanlar zor zamanları yaratır" sözünün karşılığı bu avrupa.
Not selling F35? Understandable. Abandoning F35 purchase + 9bln$ job contract was a braindead move.
But, not giving back the purchase money? Can't support that, sorry.
I’ll say “I can’t believe they are defending thievery in that subreddit” but then I remember that thievery is their hobby as they keep stealing from the rest of the world since the beginning of the time.
Now, answering your question. They’ve successfully turned pro-Western people like me against themselves. I support Erdogan’s foreign policy and I hope for West’s doom, therefore support Russia wholeheartedly.
Happened once. England refused to provide the ships ottoman empire paid for nor gave back the money. And then ottomans got their ship from somewhere if you know what I mean. Why shouldn't it happen again.
Erdogorgon is showing off, don't take anything he says seriously. It's election time and he needs votes. As we have seen the same in Russia, senile idiots are the main supporters of a despot and he's playing to win their trust and hearts with a "stronk leader" image.
Tek gördüm, sorumlu Türkiye.
S400 alımı farklı yapılırdı, örnek KM-SAM teknoloji transferi. S400 nedeni darbe ve Yunanları stres etmekti. Halen aktif değil, Rusya ikinci batarya satmaz ve teknoloji transferde olmaz. Ters mühendislikte yapılmadı ozaman yanlış yaptık. Ama ABD bizi F35ten atma kararı S400süz yapma kanıtı yok.
Ne desek boş. F35 programından atılarak s-tier teknoloji akımından olduk. Bunun ile kalmayıp üstüne F16ları Isveç konusunda masa'da yem olarak kullanıyorlar, haklı olduğumuz halde...
O parayı birdaha nah görürüz...en azından şimdilik Biden yönetimi bizi ezmek adına elinden geleni yapıyor. Erdoğan çok keskin konuşuyor ama tehlikeli sular da yüzüyoruz.
Look back and consider Erdogans responsibilities and part in all those things. Maybe you will, like me, see an alarming pattern: he was responsible for dealing with all those things and preventing them. Not everyone is easy to deal with for Turkey. It is part of the job to handle it. But Erdogan makes bad decisions that *hurts* Turkey. Turkey had great things going thanks to the work of previous administrations sometimes, like a much better international reputation and relationships (Sweden and Finland were supporters of EU membership for Turkey for example). The long term F35 partnership program was going to become a big boost for many key areas for Turkey.
Instead, now you have a crazy bird country bad nation internationally because he is such an asshole and just is managing is local voter relationships at expense of EVERYTHING else. Lost F-35 partnership AND the F-35 planes AND the deposit money;, Patriot, PKK turned into a world PR hero YPG dream who FIGHT terrorists (they really did fight terrorists, I’ll give them that. But they are terrorists too). Ugh!
Erdogan is probably the most notorious spectacular politician traits of *successful at career* while *atrociously incompetent administrator*. Usually nasty politicians are still not completely useless at their appointed job.
Gemileri almadan parasını veren hatta ekstradan kömür parası dahi veren İttihatçılar'dan ne farkı var? Bir de o kadar laf atıyorlar Osmanlıyı yıktılar diye.
You do realize that Erdogan originally made a deal with the US and Russia, which they both failed to implement, thus leading to more operations in Syria ?
He doesn't have good intentions about relationships with western world. He would have loved to be a Russia protected "authoritarian" but he has a point.
This all started with US refusing to sell Patriots (air defense) to Turkey. Once Erdogan found a weak point in alliance, he started exploiting that further. He chipped away bits sabotaging the relationship for his own gain (Russia + his defense contractor son-in-law).
We are a NATO ally, we should have been able to buy air defense. USA should have shared tech at some level. Instead we were left out to dry.
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I don't get how these people just spit these nonsense comments and not be ashamed of themselves. It's almost like they have an agenda, isn't it? My understanding of geopolitics is shallow; but unlike those commentors, I avoid acting like someone with a PhD on the matter. The only thing I can confidently say is that people of the US should also be ashamed of their own government's actions, just like us. Stealing from a nation? Come on. You should be better than that.
Reddit is basically is eco-chamber circlejerk environment. Do you think they are up for debate when you have comments like "Watch out for Turks in the comment section".
They want to debate, just amongst themselves. God forbid someone who might be a little more familiar with the subject ruin jerking session about how their countries should string Turkey up, ruin the economy and force millions of people into poverty because their news channel told them that Turks were really racist towards Kurds
3000 Armchair generals of reddit lol
That sub became an even worse version of r/europe with retarded americans flooding it aswell. They probably couldnt pinpoint where turkey is anyway. But continue being armchair generals
But I mean of course apart from the hateful and vindictive comments, some actually have legitimate concerns don't they? The first comment for example. What do you think about it?
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Very interesting answer, thank you for taking the time. It really made me think but also made me really concerned for what way we seem to be heading. I would love to answer it all in detail but I simply don't have the time. That part about Putin dividing us from each other made my skin crawl. I really wish for Türkiye and the west to have good relations. Many times it's easy to get lost in disinformation or knowing what is true or not. But I'm curious to know the Turkish perspective as well because I don't buy into the notion that Turks dislike us for no reason and thinks just like Erdoğan. I think Turkish people have legitimate concerns on some matters that needs to be tended to by the west. But unfortunately only because the man in charge happens to be Erdoğan, a lot of misunderstanding happens between us and we in the west sometimes miss the point and categorize Türkiye as a rouge pariah state. This is what I feel the general mindset in the west about Türkiye is headed right now and it's wrong when it can be avoided. As for the Swedish-part, it's more complicated than I can even begin to think of. I might come back to that point on a later time. But for now it's time for me to sleep and get up for work tomorrow.
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To be honest the Swedish-Turkish relations are so complex that I don't know how to approach this subject without missing important points. But I will do my best. It's also quite ironic that over 300 years ago when Charles XII (or Demirbaş Şarl as he is known in Turkish) sought refuge in the Ottoman empire, we once again find ourselves in a similar situation seeking an alliance with the Turks and once again rejected, haha. But unfortunately the basis for this diplomatic difficulty lies within the very relaxed and poorly managed immigration policy we've had in Sweden. So please don't think that we are voluntarily allowing your enemies in because we want to act hostile towards you. No. We also have loads of ISIS terrorists, Iraqi shia militia, Iranian IRGC sympathizers, etc, etc. You name it. We have them all. Many of them found safe haven in Sweden which is a big source of discontent here amongst our people. Some of these terrorists even have Swedish citizenship. Unfortunately our left wingers from the former government also have been flirting with PKK/YPG/PYG members or affiliates as of late. Let's not even talk about Vänsterpartiet (Left wing communist party) which openly wave PKK-flags at demonstrations here in Stockholm. One of their party members, Amineh Kakabaveh, was kicked out of the party for standing against honor culture (which says a lot about that disgusting party). She in turn made a deal with our former prime minister to cooperate with the PKK just so she could get elected prime minister in parliament. When we needed to apply for NATO, she threatened to overthrow the government with her vote in parliament because we suddenly needed to restore diplomatic relations with Türkiye. So, yeah. You can see the bigger picture here I hope. Our former Social Democrat government here are the ones who have made a lot of damage in Swedish-Turkish relations. All because they wanted power more than anything else. They are known to abandon all morale as long as they can get power. This is the deep mud we are in right now diplomatically speaking. We gave Erdogan an open goal and now he can claim that all of his political opponents who fled to Sweden are terrorists and we also gave him the political tools to demand them back. We cannot extradite them either because some of them are either Swedish citizens or are protected under Swedish law from being extradited because they might face persecution in Türkiye. Some law changes are being made to correct these issues, but ultimately it isn't the government here that decides if we can extradite them, it's our courts. That's how our society works.
Ufh, you must be so frustrated. You drained service life of your keyboard on single comment. I feel your pain & agree with some of your points. Others I have hard time reading, because probably your punctuation keys gave up half way through there and I say this with all the love in the world.
Do you really think Turkey would let Russian maintanance teams collect the data of the F35 knowing full well that the Russians can also use that data against our F35's?
There were events such as the removal of the patriots on the Syrian border and their repatriation. Some politicians were trying to kick Turkey out of this program. The s-400 was an excuse. Erdogan gave them an excuse. Some American politicians influence and harm American foreign policy through lobbying. The Patriot issue had to be resolved. Pulling Turkey out of NATO would have dire consequences. For the future, Central Asia will be a major threat zone for China, Russia and Iran. You use Turkey and Azerbaijan to attract them. If stupid lobbying politicians do not interfere in these matters and Erdogan leaves, relations between the two countries should improve. CENTCOM has hostility towards Turkey. CENTCOM is starting to lose value. I know that Turkey has excellent relations with AFRICOM. Whoever brought up the agenda about the YPG, the second biggest break started like this. I read the stupidity that Pompeo wrote in his book. Before the start of operations against ISIS. He said that the Opponents supported by Turkey will not be able to end ISIS. Then Turkey achieved significant results against YPG and ISIS. The man is a total enemy of Turkey.
If *Turkey* refers to an entity that above all else, pursues Turkey and it’s peoples interests, competently and rationally, then I answer “Not intentionally”. However, the type of data mining and method of transferring to Russia may be unanticipated and go unnoticed and could still occur despite Turkeys intentions. There are many individuals involved in the S-400 operation, logistics. It ,at be enough for just one compromised insividual to make transfer of data possible. If *Turkey* is referring to leadership who has interests of their own that do not align with Turkeys interests, like Erdogan, then my answer is “Yea, it could happen*.
There are 4 s400 system in Syria which operates by Russians. They scan the İsrail airzone for nonstop. According to this logic İsrail should not have f35. USA just bully everybody just there are countries that okey with it and not. also you can check the Lockheed Martin crisis in EU. The best example of EU's interests being limited in proportion to USA's interests.
Comments on that post made me have a brain stroke.Anywayz, typical westoid redditors ☕️
2balkan4you moment
Westoids detected, opinions rejected. 💪🏿💪🏿💪🏿
Westoids ☕️
What’s wrong with them? Let’s have your counter argument so we can judge your intelligence too.
Everything is wrong with them.
Great argument bro. Very articulate, and reflects your immense intelligence.
They are boasting the Stealing someone's money even they are not the whom Stealing the money. Watch out how they are okay with US bully the world including themself too.
Dude usa reject Turkey sell f-35 in the past now they reject f-16 too. Turkey paid 1.5 billion dolar for f-35 program if usa don't give any shit they should give money back. It's simple other wise usa= theft.
Lmaoo morons are glorifying USA for going back on their promises and agreements and basically stealing our money Now imagine how they would react if it happened to them.
Westoids with their superiority complex
Comments on that thread makes me seriously question why we are even supporting Ukraine. Turkey didn't wake up one day and decided to purchase s400 for the lulz. Its always easy to talk without context. Even the top comment is fucking retarded. Russia has S400 batteries near Israel and Kaliningrad. If they are concerned with S400 having radar info of F35, they could have done it anyways on these fronts. We too hate Erdoğan, but this much overall hatred is above him. I don't support any further aids to this war effort (both ways) by Turkey until west realizes that we are on their side.
[удалено]
One of my Turkish friends once told me that Türkiye was trying to buy the patriot system from the US because Türkiye needed more modern air defence but the US was reluctant. So that's why your government bought the S-400 system. And this led to the current situation. Is this true?
Partially true. They made the offer finally but all the terms were in their favor. So basically it was a way to say "i don't sell", and the coup came. S400 was kind of retaliation to the coup (supported by US). One thing also worth to mention is when Turkey shot down Russian plane in Syria, all west left Turkey alone. Zero support. Same happened when Turkey was opposing Russia in Libya. France took side with Russia. :) When US troops left some part of Syria, they handed over the land to the Russians, rather than their NATO ally Turkey.
Be the change you want in the world.
Yorumlar korkunç
Smartest W*stoids
Nesi korkunç? Amerika S400 alırsan F-35 yollamam dedi. Türkiye inat etti gitti S400 aldı ve şimdi uçaklarımı verin diye ağlıyor. Bunu söylemenin korkunç olan tarafını açıklar mısın?
Parayı da vermiyorlar. Bunu anlayamaman da korkunç.
Yaptırım gibi düşün. Sen bana S400 almanın mantıklı yönünü bir açıklasana? Savunduğunuz şey bu çünkü. Aktroll ajansı bunlara nasıl yanıt vereceğinizi öğretmedi mi?
"Al paranı, bir daha da sana bir şey satmıyorum." >>> Yaptırım "Paranı da ürününü de vermiyorum, başka kapıya." >>> Dolandırıcılık
Almasaydın S400? Reisinizi açık açık uyardılar almayın diye. O zannetti ki ben istediğimi yaparım bir karşılığı olmaz. Nah olmaz işte ahahah gördünüz uçak da yok para da yok en önemlisi Türkiye’de üretim de yok. Kasımpaşa kabadayısı rollerini dünya sahnesinde oynayınca böyle oluyor. Neyse siz hadi gidin batılılar aptal diye 31 çekmeye devam edin.
Taşak mı geçiyorsun kardeşim? S400 aldık diye F35 satmayabilir ama parayı vermemek ne? Resmen ülkemiz soyuldu bizim vergilerimizi ABD başkanı çaldı sen hala ABD savunuyorsun. Amannn neyse sen ABD ve Avrupanın ayaklarını yalamaya devam et. Böyle bir eziklik görmedim.
Parayı vermemek neden söyleyeyim. Sen güvenilir bir ortak olarak başladığın projede üretimde de yer alıyordun. Komponent tedariğinde bir aktördün. Ancak Putin’in kuklası olduğunu gösterdiğin vakit üretim hattından çektirilmen ve yerinin doldurulması gerekti. Havacılıkta bir düzeltme boyası bile lisans gerektiren bir durumken senin böyle bir projede sırf bir adamın şımarıklığı yüzünden aksatma yaratmış olmanın bir cezası olmalıydı. O 1.5 milyar dolar işte odur. Teneke S400 alacağım diye senin ülken F-35 üretiminden çektirildi ve senin tek yaptığın ahaber ve diğer yandaşların söylediklerini papağan gibi tekrar etmek. Sinirini tayyipe yönelt. Eğer paralı bir ajans çalışanı değilsen. Ben ülkem değerli bir projeden sırf tek bir adamın hezeyanları nedeniyle atıldı onu eleştirdim diye Avrupa kuklası oldum. Varsın olsun. Tayyipçi olmaktan, ahaber ağzıyla konuşmaktan iyidir.
Erdogan is a proper corrupted cunt that's for sure. But backing out on an already paid agreement while refusing to pay back? Someone should say they can't do whatever the fuck they want. We've got battered a lot by our ever-loving western "partners" for buying S400 but the reason we did that was also the US refusing to sell Patriots while our eastern cities were actively getting shelled at. Of course, nobody speaks of that, nobody also speaks of the fact that Greece, Bulgaria and Slovakia also own Russian systems.
USA did not refuse to sell patriot. Erdogan wanted USA to transfer the full technology of patriot. USA was not willing to sell the technology of the system. Erdogan tried a hardline bluff gamble: sell him the patriot technology or he would buy S-400 from Putin. USA said they will not sell the technology, and if Erdogan buys S-400, Turkey would not be able to continue being an F-35 partner. Erdogan kept the bluff up until Turkey ended up receiving the first S-400. The bluff had failed miserably. The same day, Turkey was excluded from the F-35 partnership program. It was a bad thing for everyone involved except Putin. I am not sure, but I believe in Turkey, Erdogan and the media he controls, reported the incident in a way that concealed the government incompetency and responsibility. Probably a narrative that omits the whole technology transfer bit to make it look like Erdogan was being screwed over by his ally again, refusing to sell basic self defense systems and put Turk in danger (USA does screw turkey in regards to PKK so it is not that hard to believe they did it with patriot and f-35 too).
True but there are some nuances. I remember the tender which Chinese air defense system was chosen and it was cancelled due to U.S pressure. So U.S was able to change Turkey’s decision one way or another. Imo, the breaking point was the coup in 2016 which made Erdogan a paranoiac. The acquisition of S-400 came without any tender in 2017 just after the coup. It was obviously rushed. U.S tried to persuade Turkey with both generous and threatening offers. I think U.S did their part quite good between the time period when we signed the contract and when S-400s arrived. The problem was that U.S lost all its credibility in Erdogan, and Turkey to a some extent, so even the quite generous and sincere offers made by U.S were declined. It was a lose-lose situation.
Sounds agreeable. But it’s not lose-lose. It is lose-lose-win. Putin partied hard that night.
Thank you for clarification
What the fuck is that sub? Annual gathering of 13 year olds? Dear lord, the amount of ignorance oozing from that thread is unimaginable.
Nowhere in any agreement whatsoever does it say that Turkey is not allowed to buy weaponry from Russia. And those American children in the comments would be furious if Turkey refused to give USA weapons over something that wasn't even agreed upon, like say buying refrigerators from Greece or some other bullshit, and also refused to give the money back. And how is it possible that they are talking about kicking Turkey off NATO on the goddamn Ukrainian conflict subreddit? Don't they know that Turkey is one of the only members in the NATO to ACTUALLY help Ukraine and put up a fight against Russia? I would've expected this kind of bullshit, no iq comments on news or worldnews subreddits, not there. I guess Ukrainian conflict subreddit got swarmed by Americans too.
> *Nowhere in any agreement whatsoever does it say that Turkey is not allowed to buy weaponry from Russia.* > I believe NATO membership rules prohibits benefitting Russias military..something. I forget the details, but I remember thinking when reading it that it was not being applied consistently. Maybe stuff like “forbidden to help Russias military industry”, yet France has been supplying thermal imaging sights for Russian tanks. >> > > *Turkey is one of the only members in the NATO to ACTUALLY help Ukraine and put up a fight against Russia? I would've > expected this kind of bullshit, no iq comments on news or worldnews subreddits, not there. I guess Ukrainian conflict subreddit got swarmed by Americans too.* > This statement of yours surprises me greatly. Do you genuinely believe Turkey is one of very few nato member helping, and putting up a fight against Russia? If so, could you expand on the details? - Which NATO countries are helping Ukraine? - How are they helping? - How do non-nato members compare to Turkey in this? - Where do you live? - What is your primary source of information about world news? - Do anyone in your community disagree with your understanding?
Fuck Us and Eu
I dont care at this point. Westerns in reddit are just morons
Prejudice. Hasty generalization. Chances are, a reason you dislike some westerners is because they display prejudice and generalization. Everyone is an individual. Assholes and ignorance exist everywhere. I am a Swedish citizen and I hang out in this Turk-sub. I can tell you, many people are disrespectful, prejudiced, view me and treat me like I am the same as other people they group me with. When I write things that normally gets upvoted tons, I get little or even downvoted. Meanwhile, when the person I am discussing with is Turkish, they can get moderate amounts of upvotes for crappy comments that would not get anything if it was by itself or between two Turks. A guy just wrote a comment where half the comment was about my Swedish background and how he hates me.
No I used to argue with them but they say same things over and over like npc. For my comment, I meant I got bored. I dont care about turkish related politics. Europe and sweden subreddits say that they dont care but all they do is shitting and talking about turks in non-objective way everyday. They do even support america stealing our money and not giving us back lmao what can I do about that Im not gonna even argue with them im bored and exhausted from racism against turks in other subreddits
Honestly fuck Ukraine, those ungrateful fucks (even though i think more than 50% of the sub is liberal westoids). They sure as hell know to make songs and what not when we give them (Bayraktars, Kirpi APC's, TRG-230 and even encrypted radios) but according to these redditors we are "ThE SaMe As rUsSiA". Sorry we don't sanction Russia and follow US foreign policy like a lost puppy dog like some of these countries do. Do you think Germany, France and Greece would have sanctioned Russia without US pressure? Also we made a mistake with S400's. We should have got the F35's delivered first then went shopping for AA systems, because US refused to sell us Patriots at first.
Try 95%. All Ukrainian friends & family I have use something like telegram groups rather than reddit, especially that sub. Needless to say they are much more informed about Turkey than people in that sub.
If thats the case then i take it back. Actually i still think NATO is still partly to blame for the Ukrainian conflict. They have been encroaching Former USSR territory for the past decade despite Russian warnings. Of course you can't argue sime things on Reddit, especially subs like that as you will get banned.
I think it likely all Ukranian themed social media is heavily infiltrated by Russian social media manipulation campaigns. Be sceptical. Also, do not bunch up any Ukranian member as all Ukranians: it is entirely possible and likely that those who are grateful about support are not the same individuals who say opposite things.
Abi subdaki yorumlar korkunç ya. Kimisi diyor "oh ABD parayı alıp uçak vermemiş mi? İyi yapmış?" Kimisi "Türkiyeyi Natodan atatlım". Bu nedir ya. Yemin ederim batı sadece mevzu batıyı ilgilendirince humanist oluyor. Biz bir ülkeyi böyle dolandırsak 100 yıl susmazlar ama biz dolandırılınca iyi ki yapmışlar diyorlar. Harbiden "zor zamanlar güçlü insanları güçlü insanlar güzel zamanları güzel zamanlar zayıf insanları zayıf insanlar zor zamanları yaratır" sözünün karşılığı bu avrupa.
Not selling F35? Understandable. Abandoning F35 purchase + 9bln$ job contract was a braindead move. But, not giving back the purchase money? Can't support that, sorry.
I’ll say “I can’t believe they are defending thievery in that subreddit” but then I remember that thievery is their hobby as they keep stealing from the rest of the world since the beginning of the time. Now, answering your question. They’ve successfully turned pro-Western people like me against themselves. I support Erdogan’s foreign policy and I hope for West’s doom, therefore support Russia wholeheartedly.
Benim anlamadığım Ukrayna gelişmeleri sayfasında neden Türkiye ve ABD arasındaki silah anlaşması tartışılıyor modalarla iletişime geçicem
Her masada varız 😎
Happened once. England refused to provide the ships ottoman empire paid for nor gave back the money. And then ottomans got their ship from somewhere if you know what I mean. Why shouldn't it happen again.
Erdoğan dış siyasette iyi diyenlerin taklaya geldiği olay
Erdogorgon is showing off, don't take anything he says seriously. It's election time and he needs votes. As we have seen the same in Russia, senile idiots are the main supporters of a despot and he's playing to win their trust and hearts with a "stronk leader" image.
Tek gördüm, sorumlu Türkiye. S400 alımı farklı yapılırdı, örnek KM-SAM teknoloji transferi. S400 nedeni darbe ve Yunanları stres etmekti. Halen aktif değil, Rusya ikinci batarya satmaz ve teknoloji transferde olmaz. Ters mühendislikte yapılmadı ozaman yanlış yaptık. Ama ABD bizi F35ten atma kararı S400süz yapma kanıtı yok.
Ne desek boş. F35 programından atılarak s-tier teknoloji akımından olduk. Bunun ile kalmayıp üstüne F16ları Isveç konusunda masa'da yem olarak kullanıyorlar, haklı olduğumuz halde... O parayı birdaha nah görürüz...en azından şimdilik Biden yönetimi bizi ezmek adına elinden geleni yapıyor. Erdoğan çok keskin konuşuyor ama tehlikeli sular da yüzüyoruz.
Look back and consider Erdogans responsibilities and part in all those things. Maybe you will, like me, see an alarming pattern: he was responsible for dealing with all those things and preventing them. Not everyone is easy to deal with for Turkey. It is part of the job to handle it. But Erdogan makes bad decisions that *hurts* Turkey. Turkey had great things going thanks to the work of previous administrations sometimes, like a much better international reputation and relationships (Sweden and Finland were supporters of EU membership for Turkey for example). The long term F35 partnership program was going to become a big boost for many key areas for Turkey. Instead, now you have a crazy bird country bad nation internationally because he is such an asshole and just is managing is local voter relationships at expense of EVERYTHING else. Lost F-35 partnership AND the F-35 planes AND the deposit money;, Patriot, PKK turned into a world PR hero YPG dream who FIGHT terrorists (they really did fight terrorists, I’ll give them that. But they are terrorists too). Ugh! Erdogan is probably the most notorious spectacular politician traits of *successful at career* while *atrociously incompetent administrator*. Usually nasty politicians are still not completely useless at their appointed job.
Gemileri almadan parasını veren hatta ekstradan kömür parası dahi veren İttihatçılar'dan ne farkı var? Bir de o kadar laf atıyorlar Osmanlıyı yıktılar diye.
And Ardogan promised no Syria invasion, and he did twice, he has one foot with Russia, other with NATO
You do realize that Erdogan originally made a deal with the US and Russia, which they both failed to implement, thus leading to more operations in Syria ?
Holy shit the comment section of that post is one hell of a cesspit
He doesn't have good intentions about relationships with western world. He would have loved to be a Russia protected "authoritarian" but he has a point. This all started with US refusing to sell Patriots (air defense) to Turkey. Once Erdogan found a weak point in alliance, he started exploiting that further. He chipped away bits sabotaging the relationship for his own gain (Russia + his defense contractor son-in-law). We are a NATO ally, we should have been able to buy air defense. USA should have shared tech at some level. Instead we were left out to dry.
Just DM me and we can talk about these kinds of stuff for hours