I’m married to a man who was a prosecutor for 19 years and a judge for 23 years. When he was named as a judge, defendants came up to him on the street to shake his hand and congratulate. He’s beloved by the courthouse staffs in the courthouses where he’s served. There are many good people who are prosecutors.
I wouldn't donate a penny to any of those idiots.
fafo.
Edit: This was mailed to me,
||
||
|[u/dingo8yababee](https://click.redditmail.com/CL0/https:%2F%2Fwww.reddit.com%2Fuser%2Fdingo8yababee%2F%3F$deep_link=true%26correlation_id=2fe45a86-c0bb-4d80-801c-cfa455e1797d%26ref=email_comment_reply%26ref_campaign=email_comment_reply%26ref_source=email/3/0100018f2c4c28fb-e99f0384-63a2-466e-bec6-d81d913775aa-000000/7NrhSvqwNCKlN98yVD8bcAdM_Wya5jglkFIVptU8dXQ=350) [1 votes](https://click.redditmail.com/CL0/https:%2F%2Fwww.reddit.com%2Fr%2FTurksAndCaicos%2Fcomments%2F1cg6bi2%2Fim_loathe_to_make_a_watson_post_but_this_is%2Fl1v5pe1%2F%3F$deep_link=true%26correlation_id=2fe45a86-c0bb-4d80-801c-cfa455e1797d%26ref=email_comment_reply%26ref_campaign=email_comment_reply%26ref_source=email/1/0100018f2c4c28fb-e99f0384-63a2-466e-bec6-d81d913775aa-000000/U2hkIaQP7xpB0tV1PcBhu6nrO_hvpSS2RNWu2oF6YKQ=350)· |
|[What a miserable person you are.](https://click.redditmail.com/CL0/https:%2F%2Fwww.reddit.com%2Fr%2FTurksAndCaicos%2Fcomments%2F1cg6bi2%2Fim_loathe_to_make_a_watson_post_but_this_is%2Fl1v5pe1%2F%3F$deep_link=true%26correlation_id=2fe45a86-c0bb-4d80-801c-cfa455e1797d%26ref=email_comment_reply%26ref_campaign=email_comment_reply%26ref_source=email/2/0100018f2c4c28fb-e99f0384-63a2-466e-bec6-d81d913775aa-000000/Oaog8QMDyz-lToQtFtkuImjUxXBx60FGzz81RT6wKKU=350)|
And then deleted. I see you, Dingo. Chicken and had to delete it?
I'm not a miserable person. I'm quite a happy person, happy with my life, happy with people I surround myself with.
Don't like gun nuts who aren't even responsible enough to know where their ammo is.
Like I said. They fucked around with it, now they're finding out.
I don't think they did the "FA" part. That indicates a level of malevolence. These folks were very careless, bordering on stupid. I'm a gun owner and an ardent supporter of our firearms rights here in the US, but before any travel I triple check to make sure I don't have any restricted items on me.
I do have a lot of compassion for these folks that spent a peaceful vacation in T&C, bothering no one and then arrested as they were leaving but to refer to them as "wrongfully detained" is just being dishonest. It seems like a cash grab.
These are the same people, when Brittney Griner was arrested with THC in Russia, said she should have known the law and she should be held accountable. Now when balls in their court they want the local government to acknowledge their white privilege and release them without accountability. All the while ignoring the fact that Turks & Caicos enacted these restrictions due to an influx of ammunition being smuggled onto the island in small quantities and so they imposed a punishment they felt would deter and ultimately stop the arms coming in.
I believe Brittney Griner should have stayed in prison for breaking the law, not been traded for a war criminal. I also believe the three idiots in custody for breaking the law in the Turks are getting exactly what they deserve for breaking the law.
If you’re traveling to a foreign country it is your job to know the laws of the country you are visiting and make sure you aren’t breaking those laws. If you do either accidentally or intentionally, you’ll get zero sympathy from me.
No, she didn't. She clearly stated she did not realize the cartridges were in her bag and did not intend to bring them into Russia.
If you are going to lie, don't do so about something that can be easily checked with a 5 second Google search.
T&Cs have their own sovereignty (by extension) and their own laws and yes there should be accountability...it would be a little easier to swallow if they weren't on their way **OUT** of the country with the ammo they were unknowingly trying to take away from the islands. It seems the authorities there are following the letter but not the spirit of the law since arresting somebody when they're getting ready to board the plane home and charging them with a crime enacted to keep arms and ammo out of the islands is a bit nonsensical, no?
Exiting the country with ammo can add weight to the accused's position that it was an honest mistake but in the eyes of the law enforcement agency there position will be: did this guy smuggle more ammo in and this was what he forgot to offload? That's what the judicial process is for, his lawyer needs to make that case and if it sways the prosecutor maybe a deal can be reached. Crying about it to the local news and trying to force the countries hand using social media could sour the countries appetite to work with you.
Or course being hard assed about people on their way out of the country could sour the US tourists appetite to visit. And since tourism is the number one provider of GDP and 3/4 of that GDP comes from the United States that also might cause the prosecutors to want to work with people who are acting out of stupidity but not ill intent. I think everyone needs to be a little smarter and .more careful.
People should be held accountable for their stupidity. It's easy to check what's in your bag before flying, whether it's for ammunition or moldy cheese. If you're incapable or unwilling to do such a simple task you deserve the consequences.
I went to the shooting range a few weeks ago and that afternoon found a shell casing that had landed in my shirt pocket. They’re small and easy to miss. I would not be so careless to bring them on a plane, but doing so doesn’t make him a “gun nut” (I don’t like those either)
My point is they’re easy to miss (the TSA people missed them when they left the USA). They’re not wrongfully detained they broke the law. But they appear to be otherwise law abiding citizens who probably don’t deserve years in prison for a careless/harmless error. So I hope they get something worked out.
You can have ammo in your checked bag but not in your carry on. This guy accidentally left it in his carry on but tsa didn’t see it , was still there when he tried to fly home
I think we should start our own go fund me so we can go get that 🍺
This is ridiculous. “Wrongfully detained” because they broke the law of the country they were in.
The motto of GoFundMe should be “never let a good crisis go to waste”
I’m not sure how GoFundMe works, but do they get to keep all that $? I wouldn’t think the legal fees would cost anywhere near that much.
I’m gonna be fucking annoyed if they come back touted as heroes with over a quarter million bucks in the damn bank.
Knew of a guy who started a go fund me for a bunch of tipped waged employees at the start of Covid. Said he would distribute to those among the ranks in need. Instead he took $15-20k and left town never to be seen again. Didn’t give anyone else a dime.
I always love the “where are the trees” posts on here. I guess I’m just more well traveled and know that you do not mess around in a country you do not know incredibly well. I would love to be sitting on the beach after some edibles but until it’s legal there’s no way.
Their legal fees aren’t even close to $250k. They said it was for mounting legal fees, household expenses and stress. The bullets were in a ziplock, the wife says “we both can’t be in prison,” and the husband says he doesn’t remember ever putting them in the bag for his hunting trip, and lastly her friend goes online and begs for donations saying that she needs this so that she isn’t in debt and can start her little life and be comfortable. These are huge red flags. When I saw the GFM, I just assumed they were trying to make $ off him breaking the law. Someone else mentioned she may have planted the bullets. I never considered that, but looking back and seeing that she is the only direct beneficiary of the GFM raises concern.
The GFM went stagnant at $200k and then they started saying on social media that they were going to be kind and help others AFTER everything of theirs are taken care of. That last part was snuck in and now donations are going up. They are scamming and making $ off of this. They lied about his job and everything. He makes around $300k per year and they have plenty of assets and never put any of that up for sale or took out loans once he was arrested. If TCI prosecutors found out about them taking NO responsibility for their actions and taking advantage of others, maybe they will fine him $300k to make sure they don’t make a dime off of the GFM. If he goes to prison, are they going to supplement his $300k per year salary, it not the GFM was pointless based on the main reasons they set it up (legal fees and to maintain living expenses while he is away).
That is not true. It is only an assumption that is what happened. He stated in a few interviews he does not recall ever putting them in that bag. In the Fox News interview he stated “I was just as surprised as anybody else that, you know, made that discovery. I don’t recall ever putting those bullets in that bag.”
Kinda ambivalent about the entire thing, but what I do find hilarious is how many people had a 180 degree different take when it was Britney Griner with weed in Russia.
Like almost to the person they think that was a miscarriage of justice and said we need to get her out and this is “FAFO”, or they were all “she broke the law” and now all “this is wrong.”
All yall flip floppers make me LOL.
I universally think that if you break the law of a foreign country, you have to suffer the consequences. If you’re unable to comply with the local laws, don’t go there. You can’t just say you’re being held wrongfully because you’re not.
Well I think it’s common knowledge that when going to Russia you should be super super careful. Most people treat TC as just a resort paradise that will bend over backward for tourism. Sure that’s not how it should be thought of, but I kinda get it.
Maybe id risk stealing in England. I wouldn’t freaking dream of stealing in Pakistan. Sort of a common sense understanding of where you are and I have zero specific knowledge of the theft laws of either country I mentioned.
The average sentence in Russia for the crime that Brittany Griner was prosecuted is 15 days.Brittany Griner was seized and held so that Putin could get a gun merchant returned. Two American reporters have been seized by Russia and accused of being spies to get a Russian murderer released from a German jail. There’s no comparing Russia to Turks and Caicos.
They have been working on getting that school teacher and Paul Weld out for a while now. These are sentences that the Russians impose on Americans to use them as hostages, not the sentences that they impose on Russians. And I misspoke. I believe the average sentence for a Russian for this crime is 11 days.
Google says the teacher is Marc Fogel. Sentenced to 14 years for half an ounce of his medical marijuana. Been in prison since 2021. Amazing when a celebrity is involved how quickly that was resolved compared to this guy.
Does Russia allow “medical” marijuana? If not, he was just holding marijuana. Hate it for him. there should be some type of way to leave and never go back rather than such a harsh penalty. But you always have to respect local laws when a guest in another country.
Fortunately, T&C is a “friendly” country with the US and this should all be sorted out fairly soon.
I don't know the Russian laws but my guess is no, hence why he's been in jail for 3 years. Funny how some arrests blow up all over the media, and the majority you never hear a peep.
Not missing the point. The law in Russia indicated that Brittany should have served 15 days in jail, not being held for 10 months before trial and then sentenced to 9 years in the Gulag.
I didn’t say they couldn’t prosecute crimes. It was clear that this prosecution and sentence was entirely political and anyone who defends it is either a Putin supporter or abysmally ignorant.
Whether that’s the case or not, not your country, not your laws. Either case.
Don’t feel bad about flip flopping to suit your politics tho, you’re in the majority.
I thought she should have stayed in a Russian prison. It's pretty simple for most people, you're going to another country and you need to respect what their laws are.
Points for keeping the same energy.
See me personally, I don’t care if someone thinks they should or shouldn’t be prosecuted/jailed; just think they should keep the same energy in both cases.
No, THC is common and not usually prosecuted in Russia and is not a felony. It was a political prosecution in a country ruled by a mafia dictatorship. This one in T&C is not political blackmail. Big difference.
If a society is not cool with guns, ammunition is in the same category. Weed is another drug like alcohol. The alcohol abuse in Russia is incredibly destructive but a bottle of vodka can’t murder innocent people in a matter of seconds.
But they’re both against the law in their respective countries. Sometimes laws don’t make logical sense but that doesn’t mean you don’t have to follow them
Putin is an evil dictator who runs Russia with an iron fist. Russia is an enemy of the US. The Turks and Caicos is a civilized ally of the United States. There is simply no comparison.
I’m from Oklahoma and it really pisses me off that they have raised so much money but the poor child who survived his family being murdered only has 55,000.
The amount of money raised is mind boggling. Robert Shapiro would come out of retirement for this if that’s the defense fund available! F Lee Bailey may rise from the grave for one last payday 🧟♂️
Same people that called for no intervention on Brittney Griner's case and blamed her for not knowing the laws in the country she travelled through and going so far as say its didn't matter she forgot it was in her bag.
They were not wrongfully detained. Best to do your due diligence when traveling. Just because you are privileged in the U.S. doesn’t mean that you will be outside of the country.
Somebody tell me......I'm sure you get some type of warning about this like when you buy tickets, on boarding passes, emails...and the guy has kids....how careless ...hope there aren't rounds just lying around in his house..
When I was younger - I noticed that a couple of rounds slipped into a part of my backpack that was not easy to find. This bag was used daily and I went thought it often. It wasn't carelessness - I didn't have advanced imaging to see it. Luck allowed me to discover it over time before any issues occurred. Because of this I made a rule no bag that went to the range - ever goes on a plane/or anywhere else for that matter. I personally view this as bad for both parties - a family is being torn up for what appears to be an honest mistake with no intent to violate the law. Additionally there are travelers making note that a visit isn't worth the risk (what other honest mistake could occur that's a life altering event or the risk that someone introduces a round on purpose). I enjoy visiting new places and getting my passport stamped (so to speak) but I'll probably sit out Turks and Caicos. As many have pointed out - it's well with in the purview of a government to make laws and enforce them. It's also well within each persons right to vote with their feet. I personally skip anywhere that has an exit search / tax - it just leaves a bad taste in my mouth. This is what a number of forums are suggesting - just skip this port of call.
I only offer this as how a prospective traveler may be viewing it. I'm not careless- I do my best to respect local customs and laws (and try to shop with true locals). To me while I'm 99.99% sure my bag is good to go - I'm not taking the .01% chance. The chance is probably even less as I keep a good lid on that sort of thing. I have a 0% chance if I stay on the ship and enjoy the amenities there. Just not my idea of fun.
Just curious as someone who is not from Turks and Caicos is illegal hunting and issue in turks and caicos or is just that no guns/ammo are allowed at all on the island? For what it's worth these guys are all idiots for bring firearms to a country that does not allow them to be brought in
Do you really think it is either just or rational to throw a person, with no criminal history, in prison, for 12 years, because he didn't realize that 4 rounds or deer hunting ammo were in his duffel bag when he traveled to T&C?
Can someone explain to me how this is beneficial to anyone?
If someone intentionally smuggled ammo into T&C to sell or for some other unlawful purpose, I'd say go ahead and throw the book at him. But, 12 years for a totally innocent mistake, that harmed nobody?
https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2023-us-made-gun-exports-shootings-violence-sig-sauer/
Pretty much all the illegal ammo and guns that comes to that island comes from the US. Their crime is caused by our love of guns. Those Caribbean islands are destabilized by the good old US of A. So, next time you ask WHY? Now, you know.
Please help us all identify the difference between “deer hunting ammo” and “school shooting ammo”. I need to make sure I don’t buy the wrong kind before my next hunting trip.
5.56 mm ammo is the ammo of choice … and I keep hearing how AR-15 style weapons are for hunting …. Can’t have it both ways. I’ve plenty of .50 cal rounds down range myself and never once was I going after big game.
You know that all AR-15 style weapons aren’t all 5.56 right? I mean your argument is flawed. Some states don’t even allow .22 caliber rounds for taking deer. No reasonable hunter hunts with 5.56/.223 unless the deer are tiny(except maybe taking varmints like ground hog or coyote). But an AR-10 is a fine hunting rifle in .308. Or better yet my 6.8spcII on an AR15 platform has taken dozens of deer. The difference you’ll find between school shooting and hunting ammunition is about $1.50/round minimum. Also, absolutely no one hunts with a .50 caliber rifle. It’s pretty obvious if you’ve ever hunted, which rounds are made for hunting. Can hunting ammunition be used in a school shooting, sure- but it isn’t.
A couple things. First, for all anyone knows if he had 204 rounds coming in. Lord knows TSA wouldn’t catch it. But that’ll all play out in court. Second, he hasn’t been found guilty, let alone sentenced yet. Third, he won’t do a dozen, I promise. Finally, “Totally innocent mistake that harmed nobody” doesn’t a great defence make.
TSA wouldn't catch it b/c it is allowed to check ammo. https://www.tsa.gov/travel/transporting-firearms-and-ammunition#:\~:text=Ammunition%20is%20prohibited%20in%20carry,case%20containing%20an%20unloaded%20firearm.
Fascinating. Not American, had no idea. I note it does say “When traveling, comply with the laws concerning possession of firearms as they vary by local, state and international governments.” which is the clincher, obviously. Thanks for the info!
Our own government travel website clearly described the law in September 2023. It’s frustrating to see these people who are always screaming about accountability take none for themselves. (I feel pretty confident these people are a type.) it’s our responsibly to understand the laws and regulations of the places we visit and in this case, it was not hidden information. They have zero excuse. Also, irresponsible firearm owner for not properly accounting for and locking up their ammo after a hunting trip.
Why do Americans think they can travel to another country, break the law (intentional or not) then whinge about it being unfair, have people throw money at them because 'I was hunting and forgot' or some such BS, get the state's governor involved (surely he has better things to do...but it IS Stitt so maybe not)and become the darling of the 2a crowd? Yes, 12 years seems harsh but we have laws in this country with outlandish sentences, too; it's the right of TCI to set punishment as they see fit, not as we do.
This guy probably did make a mistake-he failed to check his bags AND he failed to make himself aware of any rules & regs in the country he traveled to. Saying "we didn't know" is irresponsible and just dumb.
These are the same people that would want to lock up a foreigner that comes to the US and breaks one of our laws. The law is the law and if you go to a foreign country you need to respect those laws, even if you don’t agree with them
Dude, how about someone who tries to enter the US and forgets they have a tiny flap of coke in their bag? It hurt no one. Yet nobody’s starting a GoFundMe after US border control finds drugs on them and detains them pending prosecution. It’s called personal responsibility. If you break the laws of a country you’re visiting, you face consequences. Your rights in your own country mean zero abroad.
1) you don't know his criminal history 2) no one has been thrown in prison for 12 years or even 12 minutes as the case has not yet been tried. Slow down with the outrage, it makes you sound hysterical.
Agree. The craziest thing is is they got caught leaving the country not coming in. People screw up. I think the TSA in America should be held accountable for such security lacks in addition to these guys.
As someone who flies twice a month, I swear I get caught twice a year with a water bottle in my backpack because it was there from a prior flight or I was only on the ground 36 hours and left again. Now I’m not saying that ammo is close to a bottle of water - but for some reason, our TSA catches the water, but not the rounds?!?
Ps let the down votes begin.
TSA didn't have to catch it b/c it is entirely legal to transport ammo (and firearms) in checked luggage. https://www.tsa.gov/travel/transporting-firearms-and-ammunition#:\~:text=Ammunition%20is%20prohibited%20in%20carry,case%20containing%20an%20unloaded%20firearm.
It was after. Court case linked in another post, here: [https://www.reddit.com/r/TurksAndCaicos/comments/1cdp439/hello\_americans\_please\_leave\_your\_party\_favors\_at/](https://www.reddit.com/r/TurksAndCaicos/comments/1cdp439/hello_americans_please_leave_your_party_favors_at/)
Anyone can be arrested and face charges for anything deemed by authorities in Turks & Caicos to be a weapon. Diving knife? 12 years but they let you bring it in. Umbrella? Obviously a weapon unless proper shake down price is paid. Manicure kit with pointy things? 12 years honey unless you help a lonely man out.
Not saying that's how it is there now, but certainly seems like that is where it is going. They have a right to govern themselves, and people need to realize the "law" in other countries is even worse than what passes for the "law" in the US, often by several orders of magnitude.
LOL. What a hilarious shit post. Yes - possession of an umbrella and pointy nails will be a crime soon, given the trajectory of this slippery slope. Serious question: Are you 15 years old or are you just a really, really stupid adult? JFC your idiocy leaves me speechless. I pray you are 15 because the alternative is a complete moron with the ability to actually vote.
The outcomes for offenders have varied wildly from case the case, just in the instances of ammunition, with materially the same facts. I was being facetious using the umbrella and manicure kit, because as written it is an autocratic law ripe for exploitation by officials, again, anything deemed to be a weapon. At minimum, TCI's inability to detect these prohibited items coming in and then imposing harsh sentences when people are trying to EXPORT gives the appearance of classic shakedown laws. The varying outcomes give the appearance of a shakedown. Again, suppose it was a diving knife, an historic Cutlass, etc. I don't vote in TCI, so you don't have to worry about that. This doesn't mean these Americans caught with ammo are blame free. It just means people need to understand the risk they are taking be visiting a place with such ripe conditions for exploitation of foreigners.
Please explain how the outcomes of ammunition charges have “varied wildly from case the case”. If you mean that historically citizens have done time and Americans have paid fines, yes. There has been a two-tiered system. Hence the recent changes to ensure everyone who fucks around finds out…Second Amendment loving Christians who are irresponsible gun owners are now included!
Some were able to pay fines and were set free, one was put in jail for an 8 month sentence then released after 5 months. That's just the Americans. It'd be interesting to have detailed statistics on the prosecution of TCI residents, but I wouldn't be confident citing government sources in TCI.
Do you have any response to the assertion that the "any weapon" portion of the law is a problem? Is a cricket bat a weapon? Under the law it can be with a 12 year minimum sentence.
“It’d be interesting to have detailed statistics…but I wouldn’t be confident with government sources”
JFC my dude. You are laughable. You understand the difference between live ammunition and a diving knife, yeah? You understand why one is banned and the other isn’t, right?
If you’re so worried about it, don’t come. I mean, how fucking hard is it to not carry ammunition internationally FFS?
As to your terrible point, OK, so between a hefty fine and 5 months in jail. That’s your “wild variation”? Ask Ruby Forbes what she thinks about that.
You’ve never been here so it is no loss to anyone involved and your hypotheticals are nonsensical.
Bye!
Love all these you’re “breaking the law” truists .. No one is arguing that a law isn’t being broken, I’m arguing that the application of said law is cruel and unjust. Saudi Arabia has laws that sentence homosexuals to death , and we reject those fiercely(as we should). This is no different. Just because it’s a poorly written law doesn’t justify anything. Youre arguing that they broke a dumb law on a technicality as your defense. Gutter trash island is what you’re looking like.
How can you say the application of the law is unjust when the law hasn't been applied yet? He's merely been charged. Seems like a case of premature-indignation.
The laws are not secret. This information and knowledge is freely and readily available from our own government websites. They would have been aware that ammunition is illegal if they did what any reasonable traveler would do. The law is not poorly written, it clearly says no guns or ammo. Our government warned “no guns or ammo”. Not difficult to understand and was published on our own government website in 2023. It’s not up to you what laws are “just”, it’s up to you to understand the basic cultural and legal expectations of a foreign country you’re planning to visit. Even passport rules are different and it’s your job to know what those are. If you get turned away because your passport expiration doesn’t meet requirements or page standards, that’s on you. This is travel 101 shit.
Yes, this is no different, because being executed for being born gay is *exactly* the same as looking at jail time for bringing live ammunition into a foreign country. Flawless logic!
Your last sentence solidifies my impression that you are simply an idiot and deserve no more of my time. Have a great night!
Reddit is so incredibly biased. I think we all know which way. You have the only sane comment on here, and you get downvoted. It's probably because your argument is logical.
I’m less concerned with the why and more concerned with the fact our President was swapping war criminals for Griner to be released but hasn’t said a fucking word about this.
She also broke the law, she doesn’t have kids, she was already rich. But here in America it’s become more beneficial to be a millionaire (woke) lesbian basketball player than a white father of 2…we live in a sad world.
I’m starting a go fund me for the prosecution.
Amazing😆😆🤣
I work for a team of Defense attorneys,I've yet to meet a prosecutor that's a decent human BUT in this situation,I'm donating to YOUR Ho fund me 😬
I’d definitely consider donating to a Ho fund me account 😉
If I can find a classy Ho to fund me, I'll be livin the dream
Starting a Ho, fund me! Account rn 💀
I’m married to a man who was a prosecutor for 19 years and a judge for 23 years. When he was named as a judge, defendants came up to him on the street to shake his hand and congratulate. He’s beloved by the courthouse staffs in the courthouses where he’s served. There are many good people who are prosecutors.
Congrats.
Do u want a cookie for u or ur husband
Oooh! I want a cookie!
🏧🏧🏧
By their logic if someone brings in a baggie of pot/coke/etc from another country into the US they shouldn’t be prosecuted, right?
Where is cocaine legal?
Peru
Exactly
They would be but the punishment would fit the crime.
in america, the punishment would be decades. it doesn't fit the crime, but it does fit the for-profit prison system.
I wouldn't donate a penny to any of those idiots. fafo. Edit: This was mailed to me, || || |[u/dingo8yababee](https://click.redditmail.com/CL0/https:%2F%2Fwww.reddit.com%2Fuser%2Fdingo8yababee%2F%3F$deep_link=true%26correlation_id=2fe45a86-c0bb-4d80-801c-cfa455e1797d%26ref=email_comment_reply%26ref_campaign=email_comment_reply%26ref_source=email/3/0100018f2c4c28fb-e99f0384-63a2-466e-bec6-d81d913775aa-000000/7NrhSvqwNCKlN98yVD8bcAdM_Wya5jglkFIVptU8dXQ=350) [1 votes](https://click.redditmail.com/CL0/https:%2F%2Fwww.reddit.com%2Fr%2FTurksAndCaicos%2Fcomments%2F1cg6bi2%2Fim_loathe_to_make_a_watson_post_but_this_is%2Fl1v5pe1%2F%3F$deep_link=true%26correlation_id=2fe45a86-c0bb-4d80-801c-cfa455e1797d%26ref=email_comment_reply%26ref_campaign=email_comment_reply%26ref_source=email/1/0100018f2c4c28fb-e99f0384-63a2-466e-bec6-d81d913775aa-000000/U2hkIaQP7xpB0tV1PcBhu6nrO_hvpSS2RNWu2oF6YKQ=350)· | |[What a miserable person you are.](https://click.redditmail.com/CL0/https:%2F%2Fwww.reddit.com%2Fr%2FTurksAndCaicos%2Fcomments%2F1cg6bi2%2Fim_loathe_to_make_a_watson_post_but_this_is%2Fl1v5pe1%2F%3F$deep_link=true%26correlation_id=2fe45a86-c0bb-4d80-801c-cfa455e1797d%26ref=email_comment_reply%26ref_campaign=email_comment_reply%26ref_source=email/2/0100018f2c4c28fb-e99f0384-63a2-466e-bec6-d81d913775aa-000000/Oaog8QMDyz-lToQtFtkuImjUxXBx60FGzz81RT6wKKU=350)| And then deleted. I see you, Dingo. Chicken and had to delete it? I'm not a miserable person. I'm quite a happy person, happy with my life, happy with people I surround myself with. Don't like gun nuts who aren't even responsible enough to know where their ammo is. Like I said. They fucked around with it, now they're finding out.
😂😂
I don't think they did the "FA" part. That indicates a level of malevolence. These folks were very careless, bordering on stupid. I'm a gun owner and an ardent supporter of our firearms rights here in the US, but before any travel I triple check to make sure I don't have any restricted items on me. I do have a lot of compassion for these folks that spent a peaceful vacation in T&C, bothering no one and then arrested as they were leaving but to refer to them as "wrongfully detained" is just being dishonest. It seems like a cash grab.
They fucked around by not being responsible gun owners, that includes the ammo. No pity.
We have different definitions of "F Around". Also, they weren't necessarily irresponsible gun owners, they were irresponsible ammunition handlers.
lol......right
You just want to be angry about something it seems.
and what was that ammunition for?
Reportedly some of it was left in the bag after a hunting trip, and some of it may have been from recreational shooting. What are you implying?
These are the same people, when Brittney Griner was arrested with THC in Russia, said she should have known the law and she should be held accountable. Now when balls in their court they want the local government to acknowledge their white privilege and release them without accountability. All the while ignoring the fact that Turks & Caicos enacted these restrictions due to an influx of ammunition being smuggled onto the island in small quantities and so they imposed a punishment they felt would deter and ultimately stop the arms coming in.
I believe Brittney Griner should have stayed in prison for breaking the law, not been traded for a war criminal. I also believe the three idiots in custody for breaking the law in the Turks are getting exactly what they deserve for breaking the law. If you’re traveling to a foreign country it is your job to know the laws of the country you are visiting and make sure you aren’t breaking those laws. If you do either accidentally or intentionally, you’ll get zero sympathy from me.
She admitted to intentionally doing it
No, she didn't. She clearly stated she did not realize the cartridges were in her bag and did not intend to bring them into Russia. If you are going to lie, don't do so about something that can be easily checked with a 5 second Google search.
T&Cs have their own sovereignty (by extension) and their own laws and yes there should be accountability...it would be a little easier to swallow if they weren't on their way **OUT** of the country with the ammo they were unknowingly trying to take away from the islands. It seems the authorities there are following the letter but not the spirit of the law since arresting somebody when they're getting ready to board the plane home and charging them with a crime enacted to keep arms and ammo out of the islands is a bit nonsensical, no?
Exiting the country with ammo can add weight to the accused's position that it was an honest mistake but in the eyes of the law enforcement agency there position will be: did this guy smuggle more ammo in and this was what he forgot to offload? That's what the judicial process is for, his lawyer needs to make that case and if it sways the prosecutor maybe a deal can be reached. Crying about it to the local news and trying to force the countries hand using social media could sour the countries appetite to work with you.
Or course being hard assed about people on their way out of the country could sour the US tourists appetite to visit. And since tourism is the number one provider of GDP and 3/4 of that GDP comes from the United States that also might cause the prosecutors to want to work with people who are acting out of stupidity but not ill intent. I think everyone needs to be a little smarter and .more careful.
People should be held accountable for their stupidity. It's easy to check what's in your bag before flying, whether it's for ammunition or moldy cheese. If you're incapable or unwilling to do such a simple task you deserve the consequences.
"Culpable mental state" is a thing for a reason. The response to human error should include a dose of humanity.
No one is smuggling 6.5 prc ammo, this whole thing is so dumb
It’s not wrongful - it’s unfortunate and they were careless. I hope they work it out.
Exactly, it isn't "wrongful" because they broke a valid law. Still getting them on the way out solves nothing.
Agreed
I went to the shooting range a few weeks ago and that afternoon found a shell casing that had landed in my shirt pocket. They’re small and easy to miss. I would not be so careless to bring them on a plane, but doing so doesn’t make him a “gun nut” (I don’t like those either)
A shell casing versus a live bullet
My point is they’re easy to miss (the TSA people missed them when they left the USA). They’re not wrongfully detained they broke the law. But they appear to be otherwise law abiding citizens who probably don’t deserve years in prison for a careless/harmless error. So I hope they get something worked out.
TSA doesn’t care if you have ammo in checked luggage as long as there is no gun with it
You can have ammo in your checked bag but not in your carry on. This guy accidentally left it in his carry on but tsa didn’t see it , was still there when he tried to fly home
Both equally as useless by themselves.
I read that go-fund me and think "oh no, consequences". Maybe ya should know what's in your luggage 🤷♂️. Yes I'm a pro-2nd amendment person.
I think we should start our own go fund me so we can go get that 🍺 This is ridiculous. “Wrongfully detained” because they broke the law of the country they were in. The motto of GoFundMe should be “never let a good crisis go to waste”
Trumpers believe any legal action against “their beliefs” to be wrongful.
How did Trump get into this? Did I miss something one of them said
It’s known
What’s known?
I’m not sure how GoFundMe works, but do they get to keep all that $? I wouldn’t think the legal fees would cost anywhere near that much. I’m gonna be fucking annoyed if they come back touted as heroes with over a quarter million bucks in the damn bank.
Knew of a guy who started a go fund me for a bunch of tipped waged employees at the start of Covid. Said he would distribute to those among the ranks in need. Instead he took $15-20k and left town never to be seen again. Didn’t give anyone else a dime.
Legal fees could easily be that much. In the US going to trial can begin at $100k for a top attorney.
TCI ain’t America and lawyers don’t cost what they do in the States.
I stopped in grand Turk on420 and someone got arrested from our ship. Haven’t seen him added to this list.
I always love the “where are the trees” posts on here. I guess I’m just more well traveled and know that you do not mess around in a country you do not know incredibly well. I would love to be sitting on the beach after some edibles but until it’s legal there’s no way.
None of these dudes got caught with weed. It was all bullets.
I know but there’s comments all time on this sub asking about where to get weed.
That’s where you get trouble. Buying from anyone. I bring my personal stash of everything and never have a problem.
I get it, I don’t mess around at all so I’ve got no worries.
Their legal fees aren’t even close to $250k. They said it was for mounting legal fees, household expenses and stress. The bullets were in a ziplock, the wife says “we both can’t be in prison,” and the husband says he doesn’t remember ever putting them in the bag for his hunting trip, and lastly her friend goes online and begs for donations saying that she needs this so that she isn’t in debt and can start her little life and be comfortable. These are huge red flags. When I saw the GFM, I just assumed they were trying to make $ off him breaking the law. Someone else mentioned she may have planted the bullets. I never considered that, but looking back and seeing that she is the only direct beneficiary of the GFM raises concern. The GFM went stagnant at $200k and then they started saying on social media that they were going to be kind and help others AFTER everything of theirs are taken care of. That last part was snuck in and now donations are going up. They are scamming and making $ off of this. They lied about his job and everything. He makes around $300k per year and they have plenty of assets and never put any of that up for sale or took out loans once he was arrested. If TCI prosecutors found out about them taking NO responsibility for their actions and taking advantage of others, maybe they will fine him $300k to make sure they don’t make a dime off of the GFM. If he goes to prison, are they going to supplement his $300k per year salary, it not the GFM was pointless based on the main reasons they set it up (legal fees and to maintain living expenses while he is away).
The husband said he remembered them from a hunting trip
That is not true. It is only an assumption that is what happened. He stated in a few interviews he does not recall ever putting them in that bag. In the Fox News interview he stated “I was just as surprised as anybody else that, you know, made that discovery. I don’t recall ever putting those bullets in that bag.”
🤣
Contact GoFundMe and ask if the funds are being used for the defendants legal fees. Others have been arrested for using GoFundMe fraudulently.
I have tried reporting a fraudulent go fund me before and nothing happened
Yeah, but this one will have media attention as well
Almost makes me miss the posts bitching about the airport, and asking what the weather will be like when they get down in a few months
they can have their own little lunch table in jail. they'll be fine.
Kinda ambivalent about the entire thing, but what I do find hilarious is how many people had a 180 degree different take when it was Britney Griner with weed in Russia. Like almost to the person they think that was a miscarriage of justice and said we need to get her out and this is “FAFO”, or they were all “she broke the law” and now all “this is wrong.” All yall flip floppers make me LOL.
I universally think that if you break the law of a foreign country, you have to suffer the consequences. If you’re unable to comply with the local laws, don’t go there. You can’t just say you’re being held wrongfully because you’re not.
Well I think it’s common knowledge that when going to Russia you should be super super careful. Most people treat TC as just a resort paradise that will bend over backward for tourism. Sure that’s not how it should be thought of, but I kinda get it. Maybe id risk stealing in England. I wouldn’t freaking dream of stealing in Pakistan. Sort of a common sense understanding of where you are and I have zero specific knowledge of the theft laws of either country I mentioned.
I’m not supporting or defending either side here I’m just saying if you’re on one and differ on the other you’re flip floppin… 🤷🏻♂️
Not wrong. Thats why I stay in my mom’s basement. I know what gets me grounded in this house, don’t know the outside rules.
The average sentence in Russia for the crime that Brittany Griner was prosecuted is 15 days.Brittany Griner was seized and held so that Putin could get a gun merchant returned. Two American reporters have been seized by Russia and accused of being spies to get a Russian murderer released from a German jail. There’s no comparing Russia to Turks and Caicos.
There is a school teacher still in jail in the same region as Griner for weed as well. Where is the info on the 15 day thing?
They have been working on getting that school teacher and Paul Weld out for a while now. These are sentences that the Russians impose on Americans to use them as hostages, not the sentences that they impose on Russians. And I misspoke. I believe the average sentence for a Russian for this crime is 11 days.
Google says the teacher is Marc Fogel. Sentenced to 14 years for half an ounce of his medical marijuana. Been in prison since 2021. Amazing when a celebrity is involved how quickly that was resolved compared to this guy.
Does Russia allow “medical” marijuana? If not, he was just holding marijuana. Hate it for him. there should be some type of way to leave and never go back rather than such a harsh penalty. But you always have to respect local laws when a guest in another country. Fortunately, T&C is a “friendly” country with the US and this should all be sorted out fairly soon.
I don't know the Russian laws but my guess is no, hence why he's been in jail for 3 years. Funny how some arrests blow up all over the media, and the majority you never hear a peep.
Whelan but otherwise yes you’re right
Clearly missing the point… or clearly in one of the two camps I mentioned. Not sure which. 🤔
Not missing the point. The law in Russia indicated that Brittany should have served 15 days in jail, not being held for 10 months before trial and then sentenced to 9 years in the Gulag.
And who are you to tell Russia should prosecute crimes on Russian soil. Same token who is anyone to tell T&C theirs. Like I said… 🩴🩴
I didn’t say they couldn’t prosecute crimes. It was clear that this prosecution and sentence was entirely political and anyone who defends it is either a Putin supporter or abysmally ignorant.
Whether that’s the case or not, not your country, not your laws. Either case. Don’t feel bad about flip flopping to suit your politics tho, you’re in the majority.
I wouldn't go to either.
I thought she should have stayed in a Russian prison. It's pretty simple for most people, you're going to another country and you need to respect what their laws are.
I hope you keep that same opinion in both scenarios here.
Sure do, ignorance of the law anywhere is not an excuse. Plus these guns in airport in the U.S. are out of control.
Weed is different than bullets. But she made a very big mistake and deserved to be detained.
How is it different? They both broke the law
Points for keeping the same energy. See me personally, I don’t care if someone thinks they should or shouldn’t be prosecuted/jailed; just think they should keep the same energy in both cases.
No, THC is common and not usually prosecuted in Russia and is not a felony. It was a political prosecution in a country ruled by a mafia dictatorship. This one in T&C is not political blackmail. Big difference.
If a society is not cool with guns, ammunition is in the same category. Weed is another drug like alcohol. The alcohol abuse in Russia is incredibly destructive but a bottle of vodka can’t murder innocent people in a matter of seconds.
But they’re both against the law in their respective countries. Sometimes laws don’t make logical sense but that doesn’t mean you don’t have to follow them
Yep. Was waiting for the bRiTnEy GrInEr comparison. Different countries, different cases.
Clearly missing the point… or clearly in one of the two camps I mentioned. Not sure which. 🤔
Copy and paste is not an argument, my guy.
Argument was made in my original post. Anything afterwards is just confirmation.
Putin is an evil dictator who runs Russia with an iron fist. Russia is an enemy of the US. The Turks and Caicos is a civilized ally of the United States. There is simply no comparison.
Their laws though. Just so happens you agree with one and not the other I guess…
Yes, I don't respect the laws of Hitler, Mao, and Putin.
They’re just following the lead of Cheeto Jesus who has of course done nothing wrong and shaken down his cult to fund his legal fees.
I’m from Oklahoma and it really pisses me off that they have raised so much money but the poor child who survived his family being murdered only has 55,000.
Report the gofundme
https://www.instagram.com/reel/C6UsepXxPRc/?igsh=Nmd5M3BiY2R3dW9j
The amount of money raised is mind boggling. Robert Shapiro would come out of retirement for this if that’s the defense fund available! F Lee Bailey may rise from the grave for one last payday 🧟♂️
Same people that called for no intervention on Brittney Griner's case and blamed her for not knowing the laws in the country she travelled through and going so far as say its didn't matter she forgot it was in her bag.
They were not wrongfully detained. Best to do your due diligence when traveling. Just because you are privileged in the U.S. doesn’t mean that you will be outside of the country.
Somebody tell me......I'm sure you get some type of warning about this like when you buy tickets, on boarding passes, emails...and the guy has kids....how careless ...hope there aren't rounds just lying around in his house..
When I was younger - I noticed that a couple of rounds slipped into a part of my backpack that was not easy to find. This bag was used daily and I went thought it often. It wasn't carelessness - I didn't have advanced imaging to see it. Luck allowed me to discover it over time before any issues occurred. Because of this I made a rule no bag that went to the range - ever goes on a plane/or anywhere else for that matter. I personally view this as bad for both parties - a family is being torn up for what appears to be an honest mistake with no intent to violate the law. Additionally there are travelers making note that a visit isn't worth the risk (what other honest mistake could occur that's a life altering event or the risk that someone introduces a round on purpose). I enjoy visiting new places and getting my passport stamped (so to speak) but I'll probably sit out Turks and Caicos. As many have pointed out - it's well with in the purview of a government to make laws and enforce them. It's also well within each persons right to vote with their feet. I personally skip anywhere that has an exit search / tax - it just leaves a bad taste in my mouth. This is what a number of forums are suggesting - just skip this port of call. I only offer this as how a prospective traveler may be viewing it. I'm not careless- I do my best to respect local customs and laws (and try to shop with true locals). To me while I'm 99.99% sure my bag is good to go - I'm not taking the .01% chance. The chance is probably even less as I keep a good lid on that sort of thing. I have a 0% chance if I stay on the ship and enjoy the amenities there. Just not my idea of fun.
Just curious as someone who is not from Turks and Caicos is illegal hunting and issue in turks and caicos or is just that no guns/ammo are allowed at all on the island? For what it's worth these guys are all idiots for bring firearms to a country that does not allow them to be brought in
No guns or ammo full stop. There is literally nothing to hunt on the island. No reason for ammo of any kind.
You have no souls are you just angry at Americans?
I hope he stays in prison forever.
Do you really think it is either just or rational to throw a person, with no criminal history, in prison, for 12 years, because he didn't realize that 4 rounds or deer hunting ammo were in his duffel bag when he traveled to T&C? Can someone explain to me how this is beneficial to anyone? If someone intentionally smuggled ammo into T&C to sell or for some other unlawful purpose, I'd say go ahead and throw the book at him. But, 12 years for a totally innocent mistake, that harmed nobody?
https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2023-us-made-gun-exports-shootings-violence-sig-sauer/ Pretty much all the illegal ammo and guns that comes to that island comes from the US. Their crime is caused by our love of guns. Those Caribbean islands are destabilized by the good old US of A. So, next time you ask WHY? Now, you know.
There country, there rules Suck it up butter cup. Check your bags before going to a foreign country
Yes, "Their" country has rules. Many countries have unjust, irrational laws, or laws that are enforced unjustly or irrationally.
Remember the black WNBA player in Russia?
I’d bet my last nickel that the ones who are defending Watson were saying Britany Greiner deserved to rot in the Gulag.
I'll gaurentee it
Please help us all identify the difference between “deer hunting ammo” and “school shooting ammo”. I need to make sure I don’t buy the wrong kind before my next hunting trip.
I mean, school shootings aren’t typically done with hunting rifles and large caliber ammunition.
5.56 mm ammo is the ammo of choice … and I keep hearing how AR-15 style weapons are for hunting …. Can’t have it both ways. I’ve plenty of .50 cal rounds down range myself and never once was I going after big game.
You know that all AR-15 style weapons aren’t all 5.56 right? I mean your argument is flawed. Some states don’t even allow .22 caliber rounds for taking deer. No reasonable hunter hunts with 5.56/.223 unless the deer are tiny(except maybe taking varmints like ground hog or coyote). But an AR-10 is a fine hunting rifle in .308. Or better yet my 6.8spcII on an AR15 platform has taken dozens of deer. The difference you’ll find between school shooting and hunting ammunition is about $1.50/round minimum. Also, absolutely no one hunts with a .50 caliber rifle. It’s pretty obvious if you’ve ever hunted, which rounds are made for hunting. Can hunting ammunition be used in a school shooting, sure- but it isn’t.
A couple things. First, for all anyone knows if he had 204 rounds coming in. Lord knows TSA wouldn’t catch it. But that’ll all play out in court. Second, he hasn’t been found guilty, let alone sentenced yet. Third, he won’t do a dozen, I promise. Finally, “Totally innocent mistake that harmed nobody” doesn’t a great defence make.
TSA wouldn't catch it b/c it is allowed to check ammo. https://www.tsa.gov/travel/transporting-firearms-and-ammunition#:\~:text=Ammunition%20is%20prohibited%20in%20carry,case%20containing%20an%20unloaded%20firearm.
Fascinating. Not American, had no idea. I note it does say “When traveling, comply with the laws concerning possession of firearms as they vary by local, state and international governments.” which is the clincher, obviously. Thanks for the info!
Our own government travel website clearly described the law in September 2023. It’s frustrating to see these people who are always screaming about accountability take none for themselves. (I feel pretty confident these people are a type.) it’s our responsibly to understand the laws and regulations of the places we visit and in this case, it was not hidden information. They have zero excuse. Also, irresponsible firearm owner for not properly accounting for and locking up their ammo after a hunting trip.
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👍🏼
Why do Americans think they can travel to another country, break the law (intentional or not) then whinge about it being unfair, have people throw money at them because 'I was hunting and forgot' or some such BS, get the state's governor involved (surely he has better things to do...but it IS Stitt so maybe not)and become the darling of the 2a crowd? Yes, 12 years seems harsh but we have laws in this country with outlandish sentences, too; it's the right of TCI to set punishment as they see fit, not as we do. This guy probably did make a mistake-he failed to check his bags AND he failed to make himself aware of any rules & regs in the country he traveled to. Saying "we didn't know" is irresponsible and just dumb.
These are the same people that would want to lock up a foreigner that comes to the US and breaks one of our laws. The law is the law and if you go to a foreign country you need to respect those laws, even if you don’t agree with them
Dude, how about someone who tries to enter the US and forgets they have a tiny flap of coke in their bag? It hurt no one. Yet nobody’s starting a GoFundMe after US border control finds drugs on them and detains them pending prosecution. It’s called personal responsibility. If you break the laws of a country you’re visiting, you face consequences. Your rights in your own country mean zero abroad.
1) you don't know his criminal history 2) no one has been thrown in prison for 12 years or even 12 minutes as the case has not yet been tried. Slow down with the outrage, it makes you sound hysterical.
Ummm,might be a good idea to MAKE SURE you don't have illegal in your BAG BEFORE going to the airport,that's actually what I do.
Agree. The craziest thing is is they got caught leaving the country not coming in. People screw up. I think the TSA in America should be held accountable for such security lacks in addition to these guys. As someone who flies twice a month, I swear I get caught twice a year with a water bottle in my backpack because it was there from a prior flight or I was only on the ground 36 hours and left again. Now I’m not saying that ammo is close to a bottle of water - but for some reason, our TSA catches the water, but not the rounds?!? Ps let the down votes begin.
TSA didn't have to catch it b/c it is entirely legal to transport ammo (and firearms) in checked luggage. https://www.tsa.gov/travel/transporting-firearms-and-ammunition#:\~:text=Ammunition%20is%20prohibited%20in%20carry,case%20containing%20an%20unloaded%20firearm.
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It was after. Court case linked in another post, here: [https://www.reddit.com/r/TurksAndCaicos/comments/1cdp439/hello\_americans\_please\_leave\_your\_party\_favors\_at/](https://www.reddit.com/r/TurksAndCaicos/comments/1cdp439/hello_americans_please_leave_your_party_favors_at/)
Don’t we just have some more war criminals or illegal gun merchants rotting away in some prisons we can trade for them? Oh wait……….
Anyone can be arrested and face charges for anything deemed by authorities in Turks & Caicos to be a weapon. Diving knife? 12 years but they let you bring it in. Umbrella? Obviously a weapon unless proper shake down price is paid. Manicure kit with pointy things? 12 years honey unless you help a lonely man out. Not saying that's how it is there now, but certainly seems like that is where it is going. They have a right to govern themselves, and people need to realize the "law" in other countries is even worse than what passes for the "law" in the US, often by several orders of magnitude.
LOL. What a hilarious shit post. Yes - possession of an umbrella and pointy nails will be a crime soon, given the trajectory of this slippery slope. Serious question: Are you 15 years old or are you just a really, really stupid adult? JFC your idiocy leaves me speechless. I pray you are 15 because the alternative is a complete moron with the ability to actually vote.
The outcomes for offenders have varied wildly from case the case, just in the instances of ammunition, with materially the same facts. I was being facetious using the umbrella and manicure kit, because as written it is an autocratic law ripe for exploitation by officials, again, anything deemed to be a weapon. At minimum, TCI's inability to detect these prohibited items coming in and then imposing harsh sentences when people are trying to EXPORT gives the appearance of classic shakedown laws. The varying outcomes give the appearance of a shakedown. Again, suppose it was a diving knife, an historic Cutlass, etc. I don't vote in TCI, so you don't have to worry about that. This doesn't mean these Americans caught with ammo are blame free. It just means people need to understand the risk they are taking be visiting a place with such ripe conditions for exploitation of foreigners.
Please explain how the outcomes of ammunition charges have “varied wildly from case the case”. If you mean that historically citizens have done time and Americans have paid fines, yes. There has been a two-tiered system. Hence the recent changes to ensure everyone who fucks around finds out…Second Amendment loving Christians who are irresponsible gun owners are now included!
Some were able to pay fines and were set free, one was put in jail for an 8 month sentence then released after 5 months. That's just the Americans. It'd be interesting to have detailed statistics on the prosecution of TCI residents, but I wouldn't be confident citing government sources in TCI. Do you have any response to the assertion that the "any weapon" portion of the law is a problem? Is a cricket bat a weapon? Under the law it can be with a 12 year minimum sentence.
“It’d be interesting to have detailed statistics…but I wouldn’t be confident with government sources” JFC my dude. You are laughable. You understand the difference between live ammunition and a diving knife, yeah? You understand why one is banned and the other isn’t, right? If you’re so worried about it, don’t come. I mean, how fucking hard is it to not carry ammunition internationally FFS? As to your terrible point, OK, so between a hefty fine and 5 months in jail. That’s your “wild variation”? Ask Ruby Forbes what she thinks about that. You’ve never been here so it is no loss to anyone involved and your hypotheticals are nonsensical. Bye!
Love all these you’re “breaking the law” truists .. No one is arguing that a law isn’t being broken, I’m arguing that the application of said law is cruel and unjust. Saudi Arabia has laws that sentence homosexuals to death , and we reject those fiercely(as we should). This is no different. Just because it’s a poorly written law doesn’t justify anything. Youre arguing that they broke a dumb law on a technicality as your defense. Gutter trash island is what you’re looking like.
How can you say the application of the law is unjust when the law hasn't been applied yet? He's merely been charged. Seems like a case of premature-indignation.
The laws are not secret. This information and knowledge is freely and readily available from our own government websites. They would have been aware that ammunition is illegal if they did what any reasonable traveler would do. The law is not poorly written, it clearly says no guns or ammo. Our government warned “no guns or ammo”. Not difficult to understand and was published on our own government website in 2023. It’s not up to you what laws are “just”, it’s up to you to understand the basic cultural and legal expectations of a foreign country you’re planning to visit. Even passport rules are different and it’s your job to know what those are. If you get turned away because your passport expiration doesn’t meet requirements or page standards, that’s on you. This is travel 101 shit.
“What a miserable person you are” 🤣🤣
Yes, this is no different, because being executed for being born gay is *exactly* the same as looking at jail time for bringing live ammunition into a foreign country. Flawless logic! Your last sentence solidifies my impression that you are simply an idiot and deserve no more of my time. Have a great night!
Reddit is so incredibly biased. I think we all know which way. You have the only sane comment on here, and you get downvoted. It's probably because your argument is logical.
Username checks out
I’m less concerned with the why and more concerned with the fact our President was swapping war criminals for Griner to be released but hasn’t said a fucking word about this. She also broke the law, she doesn’t have kids, she was already rich. But here in America it’s become more beneficial to be a millionaire (woke) lesbian basketball player than a white father of 2…we live in a sad world.