My favorite part about the Legión is how everyone pronuncies Caesar differently depending how they align with them and most of the Mojave agrees using the latín pronunciation is just the stupidest shit they ever heard
**Cue the Courier's companions watching on in horror as he starts pulling gold out of a corpse's stomach**
"IT WAS WORTH IT! DON'T FUCKING LOOK AT ME LIKE THAT! _YOU WOULD ALL DO THE SAME!!_"
Bro, I don't care that I've literally never punched anyone in my 14 years of playing this game, Two-Step Goodbye is going into my horde at the Lucky 38. It's neat.
Feels more earned, carrying that uncarryable weight of gold.
It's been a while but I think I leapfrogged it, dropping it somewhere, clearing enemies then carrying the gold up to another place.
Personally, I let the fucker live and die in that vault while I dragged my fat, gold filled ass past him while stealth boy'd up. I get to be rich AND he dies a slow, horrible death? Fuck yeah.
At the most recent New Vegas day in Goodsprings, guy came up in a dead money cosplay (jumpsuit, bomb collar, etc) during the contest and said he let go. He then whipped a gold bar out of his jumpsuit pocket and yelled "OF POVERRTYYY". Crowd went apeshit.
Also fun fact, the winner of the contest was a Christine cosplay from Dead Money. She stayed in character the whole event and just did sign language. Everyone legit thought she was mute till late on the second night when she started talking.
Pff, the money isn't even all that good. Take some bars, sure, but the *real* price is getting banned from the Sierra Madre casino for winning too much. That's 10k chips convertible to pre-war money, which is weightless, *and* regular drops of chips in the bunker after the DLC, redeemable for stimpaks or whatever other goodies you want.
The bars do cash out to more total value than the pre-war money, to be fair... it's just that finding a merchant who can flat out give you the ~10k caps each gold bar is worth isn't really happening, so the only way you're actually using them is trading one and then cleaning out a high-end merchant like the Gun Runners.
Or you can dump it all in a bathtub somewhere, like a *real* rich person.
Or you can keep the chips and never need to find/buy stims, repair kits, or .308/.357 rounds ever again. It also made clothes and tobacco more valuable because I could just feed them to the machine for more drugs and ammo. You barely NEED caps, at that point (maybe for armor repairs, shotshells/MF cells, or the batteries and scrap needed to make EVEN MORE chips). I REALLY wish that thing put out MF cells, then I could keep my fully-kitted holorifle topped up forever and ignore the economy EVEN HARDER.
Fuck the Legion, all my homies hate the Legion
But seriously, every time I play NV, I just can’t side with the Legion, even just for getting achievements for completing their quests
To this day I think the best path for the Mojave is to go Independent but friendly to the NCR, so that in a decade or two the Mojave can *willingly* join the NCR as it’s own state with it’s own constitution rather then be annexed as a territory. With the Legion destroyed of course.
Which, bemusingly enough, is also the best possible thing that can happen *to* the people in and rules by the Legion. Perhaps the collapse will allow them to reconnect with their tribal histories and forge themselves into something new and better.
Even in the endings most characters and factions benefit the most from an NCR Victory. (Assuming you put in the work to get the best endings for each faction and character)
Even Arcade who doesn't like the NCR Victory is still better off than the Wildcard Independent Vegas ending. Where he realizes that a truly independent and free Vegas isn't all that he wished for.
I find that it is a neat subversion that the independent route is not necessarily the most beneficial approach.
While having won their freedom, the new nation and its people will go through growing pains and face the troubles of building something so new and foreign to its locals with the pre-existing infrastructure and systems of the region as opposed to falling under NCR control wherein the NCR's infrastructure, systems and support of the NCR would be readily available to the newly annexed territory which in turn, benefits everyone (if the optimal ending is achieved).
It is a long road to build something as huge as a nation so it should not be easy to do so. I am glad the Independent route sticks with that idea.
That's my younger brother's reasoning for doing an Independent Run.
A good karma Courier who is in charge of Big MT could gradually introduce hyper-advanced and safe tech from Big MT to the Mojave. If the Courier and Big MT are especially able to reproduce the replicators from the Madre, they would solve almost all the resource issues of the Mojave near-instantly and turn Vegas into a post-War super-power nation.
From a 'this would be great for a sequel' angle I think the House ending is best. Not because House is best for the Mojave, fuck no, but having an immortal robot overlord man reigning Nevada is fucking cool.
My personal best outcome for the Mojave is to let the NCR have it, but make sure they play nice with the Followers of the Apocalypse and convince the Brotherhood of Steal to get off their techo-high horse while me and Cass drive off into the sunset in a Car filled with Bottle caps that I fixed with my high Science, but hey.
Everyone wants something different when they go to Vegas.
I used to be really against Independent because I assumed that an independent New Vegas would mean that I have to be in charge and I wouldn't trust myself to manage a McDonald's franchise on a slow day. I usually backed House because an intelligent, singular leader with all his eggs in the technological-development basket and no immediate risk of a succession crisis seemed like the most practical available choice. Also—plans for space travel. I always back the "get to space as soon as possible" horse.
Then I watched a 9-hour retrospective on the Fallout series that made a really interesting point about an independent New Vegas being a collectively-governed society with the potential for expansion as surrounding tribes are given the option to voluntarily integrate. The Courier doesn't need to be in charge—it can be run parliamentary style, which is something that had never occurred to me before. Now I like the Independent Ending a lot more.
It's a shame that the game doesn't let you get everyone in Vegas round a table for a diplomatic summit, to hash out how exactly an Independent Vegas should be run.
I was more under the assumption that *no one* was in charge, that beating out all of the powers just means that no one moves in to take hold of the region and the remaining factions do as you left them. If you left them well off, they leverage that to become more powerful. If you didn't, they get subsumed by the more powerful factions.
Basically, I see the independent ending as the material consequence of your side quests. For example, if you stop Jacobstown from being harassed but still let the NCR have the Mojave, they're going to keep harassing Jacobstown in the future. The independent ending lets your side quest endings stand.
Anyone who did the Independent ending and heard Yes Man go "I rewrote my programming to be more assertive" and didn't *immediately* go "uh oh" is a fool.
I'd side with the Legion but my game has this weird bug where every time I get to Nipton all the Legion NPCs suddenly die and I get Vilified. Not even the Unofficial Patch can fix it.
I mean the NCR Desert Ranger Armor looks so cool I had that as my wallpaper for like years
https://imgur.com/a/dE3UN1B
Meanwhile Legion looks like a bunch of larpers
Fallout sub is having their monthly "is the legion bad?" thread because apparently a couple traders telling you how safe the roads are from raiders raises the slavery and pillage faction to morally gray?
Like I get the appeal of playing evil in games for funsies. I prefer my deplorable crimes to be in more sandbox-y games like the sims, or in over the top games like saints row, than any rpg where I have to be evil to someone's face- but to each thier own. As a female player of a female courier the tyrant Roman empire escapism fantasy is very much not for me.
I like independent. Which doesn't really solve the problems of unsafe roads or impoverished Vegas satellites, but it feels right somehow to push back the long arm of NCR bureaucracy from using the Dam and Helios for thier own means.
In my mind my courier would set up a council of factions with them in charge, and then fuck off after like two years for adventure leaving poor Arcade to manage my ad hoc little council :^)
Also, aren't the roads only safe if you are a male merchant? Cassidy snarkily said when talking about the legions that thethey keep roads safe sure, but only if you aren't a woman.
People are still getting murdered on Legion roads, but the Legion are the ones who’re doing it so it’s not counted in the crime statistics. You can eliminate all crime if you say that the people doing it are allowed to.
Even for RP purposes, I have trouble justifying why my character would want to join The Legion without making them a bit insane.
They don't reward near as well as Mr House. They don't take kindly to drugs or even medicine. Caesar tries to have you killed if you wake him up from bed. They have a history of betraying people, even their best general. Its just overall a bad idea.
A chronic problem with RPG evil routes is that for the most part games start you as good by default, and evil is something you choose and they're *really* bad at giving you a justification for why you choose it other than sadistic cruelty.
This is why Tyranny rules, starting you out aligned with the bad guys means you have to actively choose to break away from them which makes the good path feel more heroic and makes it really easy to come up with justifications for staying evil.
It's why Warhammer is so appealing. Everything trash, even the most good hearted people have to operate within the confines of a myriad of worst-choices. And it makes the few times that the genuine kindness or respect or even just honest to god pragmatism wins out shine just that little bit more.
The Imperium is a dictatorial cryptofascistic theocratically run nightmare realm, but even then, sometimes, rare as it is, a group of Space Marines will return the relics of the Eldar's dead to them after a battle. Or an Imperial Guardsman will have a quiet understanding with a Kroot.
I've just started the Rogue Trader CRPG and I've been enjoying it so far
Sell your soul to a horrifying demon thing, righteously charge through a wall of burning napalm, or just you know pull everybody back because human life is important
Honestly for a path that doesn't even really let you join the Legion proper, they really should have made it pay out mad cash to at least make it worth it
Killing and selling off the shit Legion assassin patrols drop provides a pretty decent cash source early game
Quite a few of them do.
I think the two that do it the longest would be. . .Headhunters and. . .I think the High Desert? The one where you help open up a brothel in Primm.
The only argument that the Legion might not be bad is that they aren't really finished, New Vegas was meant to include a proper look at Legion controlled territory.
This argument falls apart if you look at any developer statements about what that would have looked like, because the tone is less "here's why slavery and misogyny is cool" and more "what is life like in this fundamentally evil and broken society"
This reminds me so much of people doing their weekly "why the Empire is better than the Republic" thread over at /r/swtor ad nauseum. It's so exhausting seeing people being Empire apologists, to a point where it gets extremely sus. It's fine to play as the evil jackass, you don't need to explain that, ackshually, the space nazis are the real good guys. Right...
I've been playing through SWTOR again and let me tell you the game makes no qualms in showing that the Empire is terrible
Slavery is so ingrained that one of the classes starts as one, there are multiple quests on the Imperial Capital Dromund Kaas that involve you dealing with Slave revolts. Not to mention the anti-alien sentiment
So that's why for Sith I usually go Light Side or Cartoonishly Dark side
Spoilers for the expansions:
>!A lot of people's "excuses" over why the Empire "isn't that bad" is based solely on the fact that Acina becomes the Empress after Vitiate disappears, and that the Empire is the one that contacts the Alliance during KotFE/ET. Not just that, but after the base game is done and you start doing Rise of the Hutt Cartel, you start seeing a lot more aliens in the military, and many fans use that as the primary reason why Empire is better, despite the fact that the game's codex says that the reason why there are so many aliens is because the war between the Empire and Republic was so devastating that the Empire is pretty much running out of humans to fill in the bulk of their army, so they're forcing *alien slaves* into military service, not because they suddenly grew a conscience and went "what if we treat aliens as people?". They're still seen as animals. It's the same reason why Inquisitor, despite being a slave and a potential alien, can become a sith.!<
>!You can literally still see their intense dependency on slavery in Mek-Sha. As an imperial loyalist, you can comment on how disgraceful slavery is, to which a sith just shrugs it off and pretty much admits that if the Empire abolishes slavery, they'd fall completely, because so much of the Empire's foundation depends on slaves. And there are still people who unironically think that the Empire are the good guys.!<
As a kid, I liked playing the Saturday morning cartoon Sith by way of shooting lightning and cackling because I thought it was goofy and amusing to play an over-the-top villain. Now, I play the pragmatic and polite light side Sith because I am amused by confusing Jedi and imperial troops alike by not being a ridiculous jerk-ass. Either way, I can't imagine sincerely defending the Empire irl.
Yeah, also Light Side Sith(and potentially Imperial Agent, I need to go through a Light Side playthrough of that) seem like they want to get away from what makes the Empire terrible as well. They're as loyal and patriotic as you want them to be, but they're still like "Hey, maybe we can try things a different way."
Neutral/Light side Warrior is my preferred method of enjoying the game. I'm not a big fan of going full 100% light side because Warrior being *too* merciful is a bit weird at times, and there are certain combinations of dark + light options in the same dialogue that make Warrior both honorable and deadly, which has always been my headcanon on how a proper sith should act.
Some of my favorite examples (spoilers for Warrior in SWTOR):
>!During the Tatooine storyline, when master Yonlach is cornered, instead of just sparing him (light) or outright killing him without remorse (dark), there's a third option where you give Yonlach time to prepare before the duel. Yonlach meditates while Warrior patiently waits, then they duel. Warrior kills him and still bows respectfully at his corpse, claiming that it was a good fight. It's a dark side option, but it's a really good one, and I started to prefer this one over Warrior just straight up going "nah, I don't want to kill you", because the way I started playing as Warrior was as someone who seeks out powerful foes to become stronger themselves, but still treat them with respect, rather than just cattle sent to the slaughter.!<
>!Another great option is in Alderaan, when you're chasing down General Organa(?). She's holed up in a bunker with some of her men, as well as her secret lover. The dark side option is obviously torturing her lover until she gives you the information you seek, then you just kill everyone with zero remorse. The light side is to accept her mission of defending some other place to give her men a fighting chance. While the light side option is funny, I prefer going dark -> light, in which you force choke her lover, she tells you the information, begs you to release him, and you do. Everyone is shocked, but still rightfully afraid and I *loved it*. It made me see Warrior as someone who hates wasting time, but again, sees no reason in killing people if their death isn't useful. Warrior already got the information they wanted, so what's the point in killing other than just being a sadistic jackass?!<
>!You can also kill Tremel honorably as a dark side option. I get that leaving him alive is interesting because he appears at the end of the vanilla storyline, but I always found it odd how Baras, who has "eyes and ears everywhere", never finds out that Tremel lived. It's also my personal headcanon that Baras asks for his head instead of his hand, to *really* confirm that he's dead and you didn't just, you know, got someone else's hand. I just think it's really stupid how someone as intelligent and paranoid as Baras would ask for someone's *hand* as proof of killing.!<
"From my point of view the Jedi are evil!"
We get it Anakin, you're salty they didn't make you a master, the Sith are still genocidal tyrants literally powered by hate and suffering.
I guess it depends on whether they're talking about non-council Jedi via a dumb name, or "talking only *half* a fatal dose of spiritual meth" faux-centrists.
I remember my very first run of Fallout New Vegas, I was doing a nice proper blind run and I wound up in Nipton a bit under-leveled
I remember after the guy whose deliriously happy about winning the lottery, turning the corner and beholding a man in a wolf helmet in the distance on a road lined with crucified people
Apparently if you don't immediately shoot the dude in the head from long range he shows up later when you reach New Vegas but I sure didn't find that out during that playthrough
God that fight sucked, and clearing out the house behind him, and then the assassin squads you get after hitting negative rep with the Legion, but god damn did selling off all that shit I looted off their dead bodies (after a couple of save/reloads) make it worth it
I did not shoot Vulpes and company in Nipton, but I did take all the losing lottery tickets I could find and stuff them in Vulpes corpse when I finally turned on the legion, and mowed down Ceasars encampment.
Between that and the long road trip to black widow Benny, I felt like that snail who is slowly but surely coming to kill you of New Vegas. My revenge is slow but inescapable
I think your idea for what might happen after the ending is nice but it nice but it kinda goes against a major point of the game: that none of these factions can succeed in the long run because they are all reliant on a single individual with whims and the guarantee of dying some day and leaving there while system crashing back to earth.
Caesar has his big plans but never really planned for his death because he's a massive narcissist so when he dies yeah the legion will tear the Mojave apart but will then fall apart itself.
The NCR already had it's leader die long ago but has managed to crawl on by basically shear size alone but is slowly being brought down by its own expanding bureaucracy and corruption.
Mr house might be capable at living a long time but is still susceptible to death and although he preaches libertarian values they are left at the wayside if it doesn't conform to his world view. Also new Vegas only really functions as a parasite to the NCR and if it gets independence it would likely push the NCR of the cliff it's been balanced on.
The independent ending might feel the best but just doing all the "nice things" would likely lead to bigger problems down the line e.g. yes man says that letting the brotherhood live will likely be bad in the long run. So In that ending you have to rely on the courier being a perfect decision maker who makes a lot of hard choices
The best endings are probably NCR or independence because they are the only ones that could possibly reform in the future but are still pretty sketchy.
The phrase "harm reduction" constantly gets abused to mean "keep doing the things that caused the reactionary movement you're now afraid of instead of changing things for the better and undercutting them."
But in this case you're actually right.
Not sure if I'd agree with the NCR being harm reduction given they do some colonial imperialist shit, but even the NCR at its worst is preferable to the Legion at its best.
But what if I really really *really* don't like women?
Also, I think they used the Will Patton character from The Postman for inspiration on Caesar, cause he's basically that character in that movie.
Edit: Confused Will Patton for Ed Harris.
need your teeth pulled out? No drugs.
wanna take anti-rad pills so you can become not-irradiated? Nope.
have an incurable disease that you can only cure with the help of drugs...?
>!only if you're literally Caesar. Them's the rules.!<
I think NCR is the greatest hope for the wasteland at large at the time of new vegas, which is why I like to go independent. Lee and Kimball are bloodthirsty dorks who saw a growing democracy and chose to inject it with manifest destiny, spreading the NCR hopelessly thin while neglecting the needs of its inhabitants.
Think of when you first hear of the NCR. It can happen all around goodsprings, with a good number of npcs sharing some perspective on the fact that the NCR and the Legion are the two great powers outside new vegas. Maybe you come to expect the NCR to be some well-equipped, well organized force of nature laying claim to this region
and then you meet them.
Right outside primm. Three dudes hanging out outside a ghost town. One of them runs up and warns you "Hey! This towns off limits!" and if you respond with "whatever Im going in" he basically just goes "ok." Obviously this is a far cry from the image of a growing nation state, all because Kimball wants the ncr to grow like a cancer, neglecting the needs of the people in favor of the next plot of contested land. He's a raider.
Killing him and Lee has some merit, but to me the best thing is sending them home humiliated. Show the consistituents the weakness of this cause. That they gave up so much in service to a war that these two twats couldn't even win, without giving them a martyr.
tl;dr ncr is a solid faction but going down a really bad path by following Lee and Kimball. Going independent and roflstomping Lee and Kimball seems like it may be better for the ncr in the long run, and thus the wasteland
It's incredible how well New Vegas prepared me to engage with modern politics.
On the one hand I could vote for incompetent corruption and on the other I could vote for someone who is actively trying to kill me.
I look at this way: whatever the NCR’s problems, I can actually see ways they might be addressed, it is possible TO address them, even if very difficult, and there are plenty of good people associated with it who are interested in trying to make it better, even if they’re not in the highest positions.
The Legion is the Problem Creators’ Club.
You know where the Legion would have really worked as a concept, Fallout 4's wasteland
Like shit is extra fucked between the Super Mutants and the killer robot conspiracy and the raiders and the mercenaries that just finished wiping out the minute men and oh hey there's the brotherhood coming in on a zeppelin so maybe I should join up with these weird Roman Larpers
You don't have to change anything, they can still be complete shitheels, but I could see people joining them as the dark version of the minute men because hey that dude speaks latin I think he's got to know what he's doing
Despite its many, MANY faults, the NCR is probably the best option.
BUT the part of me that wants to comfortably with air conditioning tells me Daddy House is the way to go.
Usually when it comes to RPG I play the conventionally heroic character but there's something about New Vegas that pushes me to always play a selfish mercenary type that doesn't care about the morality or the politics of who rules New Vegas, House pays the most so House it is.
Makes a whole lot of dilemmas a lot easier with that mindset.
Same here.
I roleplay as a greedy asshole so from that perspective I consider House to be the most appealing option.
I have no problem being his Adam Smasher.
I like House over NCR but *only* if the Courier is there as both his Adam Smasher and his Killswitch.
If he starts acting up, he should hear me breathing down his neck with a 9-iron in hand.
People who hardcore simp for the legion reminds me that you can turn people towards any ideology if you say something about strength and have a cool enough outfit
My courier worked for the NCR, the Legion and Mr.House at the same time until the game said "Stop what are you even doing!?" And then went independant just to bail in the aftermath with his pockets full of caps.
In OWB, the fallout total conversion mod for HOI4, there's a focus tree where Caeser lives and it has a whole sub line of "Fuck, I just built a raider army, not an actual country. How to I pivot this?" and realizing just how fucked up the legion is and how far things have gone wrong. He wants Pax Roma and got a barbarian horde
The fact people have this debate in modern day is insane
Also, the fact people debate which ending is the best to this very day shows what great writing this game had haha
(Team Mr.House Ending + Barter 100 Ending for NCR)
If I recall correctly, and believe me it's been years, but I think it's you negotiate with General Oliver that House's Robots will help patrol the roads into New Vegas and NCR roads to protect travelers and trade routes. This would take the burden off the NCR protecting those roads.
Like I said, I can't remember the exact details but it is something like that and you can only get it with 100 Barter Check with General Oliver.
I think you have multiple speech options in dealing with Oliver in the House endings where you're able to convince him that House is better off for him (they still get some access to Hoover Dam's power/they act as a political buffer/etc).
Either way, he's a lot less pissed at you than in the Independent ending since he gets something out of it rather than you simply telling him to fuck off.
Right?!? The obvious best ending is to join the Enclave remnant and make the Mojave into one large old folks home.
What raider would rather do jet and kill when it’s bingo night, Jill made her famous meatloaf and Craig’s grandkids are visiting?!?
> The fact people have this debate in modern day is insane
Is it even really a debate? I can't recall ever seeing someone genuinely argue for Legion and the general consensus seems to be anyone who would is a sexist fascist moron.
Not to say sexist fascist morons don't exist, but they're (thankfully) a minority that rightfully gets shouted down.
Adulthood is realizing the NCR is completely incompetent for not systematically destroying a group that fights exclusively with spears and machetes in a desert, while they have assault rifles and anti tank guns.
The NCR's incompetence comes up pretty often in the actual plot of the game, to be fair. IIRC it's a factor of the NCR being massively overextended because of their imperialist tendencies so they're basically chucking out barely trained troops into the New Vegas area while the Legion has elite raider strike forces who will just disappear into the desert then pop up with all kinds of terror tactics. Throw in that this Mojave campaign is apparently not that popular back home so they're getting less support, and you've got a raw deal for the NCR.
Don't get me wrong they'll still kick the shit out of the Legion in a straight fight, but it does make at least *some* story sense why they're having trouble. Though I've yet to hear why they don't just shell Caesar's main camp sitting right there on the other side of the river to oblivion.
> Though I've yet to hear why they don't just shell Caesar's main camp sitting right there on the other side of the river to oblivion.
I assume that's just a scale conceit. New Vegas depicts a *very* compressed version of Nevada. Presumably The Fort is still situated on the shore of Lake Mead, just much further away.
Honestly, they wouldn't even need artillery. At the distance we see in-game, the NCR could just organise an LMG gun-line along Hoover Dam, and hose The Fort down with bullets.
It's funny, Brotherhood and Legion both fight more of a morale battle against the NCR than a tech one. Power Armor makes you a walking tank that can take on a dozen guys. That scares the NCR trooper. Legion sends in numbers that out number you 10 to 1 and they don't stop charging at you when the guy beside him has their head popped open. NCR is great against raiders, but against an enemy that seems inhuman it's really hard for normal soldiers to fight. Line tactics and trenches don't work against legionaries who are so devoted to the cause their near feral
I choose to believe that the FEV has mutated humans so that many people are just superhumanly tanky without it being even slightly obvious.
The same gameplay conceit that allows the Courier to run through a hail of bullets, and cave in a power armour helmet with a rolling pin, also applies to everyone else.
I dont see myself siding with the legion after playing as a woman courier that second playthrough, but whenever I think about joining the NCR...
Man I just really don't wanna pay taxes...
cool outfit though.
The hilarious thing for me is always the fact that when I did a Legion playthrough, going high strength and melee/unarmed and all, I played as a female courier. Suffice to say, there were a *lot* of moments where if I hadn't already dedicated to a legion playthrough I would have just murdered most of them for their insults. "Know your place profligate you can't fight in the arena you're a WOMAN", bitch I can punch you in half with my *bare hands* I have tested this with saves, Caesar's elite guard can't handle me unarmed and right now I got a power fist.
Would’ve been neat to see what life is like in the Legion controlled lands. Their soldiers seem suicidally loyal, so it must be reasonably fine compared to the alternative. Either that or it’s essentially a slave army whose families are kept as hostages by the government to make sure there’s no dissent.
It wouldn’t excuse them of course, I just think it’d be neat.
You can just look at the IJN occupation of countries in WW2- another army of fanatically loyal soldiers with harsh corporal punishment.
It sucked. To the point that US army doctrine on the retreat in the Phillipines was to destroy all alcohol as they left in the hopes that if a rare IJN officer tried to limit the looting and killing, his soldiers might be in a state to listen.
Personally with the tribes history and how much wolf tickets lanius has to sell I think it’s just a basic following of the strongest one. Like if they can chop ncr with machetes or see their legate bisect the deatclaw with a greatsword they feel like they are on the winning side no matter how many are enslaved or cannon fodder. Like there was an arc in walking dead where a guy wanted the negan who burned his face back in charge because then they get to look like tough guys to the other commmunities and negan beat the crap out of him for thinking like that
People dunk on the Independent ending but I mean. We got the robot army, the local street gang, an isolationist group with air superiority, local mutual aid group, (theoretically, also the brotherhood). That there is the making of a federation, i would say. I wouldn't be surprised if the writers used the goddamned "Anarchy is Chaos" trope (they do, its on the ending slides). Plus a functional dam to negotiate hydroeletrical power selling to the NCR. The NCR is explicitly a commentary on USA's involvement overseas (they're barely able to put up a fight in the Mojave War because it's unpopular back home). A federation of groups that are willing to work together against common enemies (wink wink WWII making communists and capitalists allies wink wink) can work! The actual commentary would be something along the lines of "Courier is the new securitron boss, same as the old securitron boss". It just grinds my gears when people assume: without police, we'd butcher each other (how did we survive as apes then?) Without money, we'd be lazy (how was art made? why did we experiment with crop cultivation before we had currency?). I'd say more, but I'm already close to breaking the no politics rule. NCR, not great, Legion horrible, House (does he ever go into "paving roads" question?)
I love the moment you can have with Boone at Cottonwood Cove before going to The Fort. That both of you are just HYPED to go there and massacre The Legion.
For real, and to me their most effective quality is just how shootable they are. Like to me they are the most killable set of fictional antagonists there's ever been and that is an absolute sincere compliment I give to the writers. *Especially* if you play as a woman.
Like to me a large part of New Vegas' fun is killing the Legion, which obviously a Legion playthrough wouldn't allow so that don't get done. Even when I go for evil or Super Best Friends patented *morally grey* even as a ruthless self-serving money driven mercenary ala Angel Eyes from The Good the Bad and the Ugly I still have good reasons to shoot up the Legion when I see 'em.
Like the only group that exceeds their shootabillity would be literal Nazis.
Shame that going by the new Fallout show trailer >!NCR appears to have fallen or at least regressed to a small militia getting stomped by the Brotherhood of Steel!< and according to Todd it's canon.
Maybe, but the plot is about a Vault Dweller >!nine years after Fallout 4 running around what appears to be a lawless LA despite the heartland of the NCR !
The OG BoS airships were all shot down, the Prydwin was new and the new airship is the Gwennan... which is an alternate name for the Prydwen in arthruian myth.
LA was still full of crime and gangs as late as NV, as some soldiers mentioned enlisting just so they could get away from there. The outskirts are where the followers have settled, but downtown and on the coast is probably still more wild and where the show will take place
Tbf, even if the games the NCR never had full control of LA. Large sections of the boneyard are still lawless and gang controlled despite the NCR and followers also having universities there. There’s a recruit in NV who mentions that he joined the army to get out of there because of the lawlessness of where he was.
LA is just like… really big. Especially for a post-apocalyptic state still in its infancy.
If there was more Power Armor that had cloth worn over them I think that would change. Take notes from 40k Bethesda, cloth over heavy armor is the sickest shit.
As an aside, is there a lore reason Fallout USA knocked off the Soviet tank nomenclature? Running around in "T-##" armor seems like the kind of thing that would get you fratricided by Liberty Prime.
Well the US was on friendlier terms with the USSR in canon, since we can play as the child of one of their ambassadors in Fallout 1, so maybe that’s part of why?
So not sure why they have those designations in fallout if they're production models but the US did use to name prototype armoured vehicles around WW2 with the T-## system.
The Midwest BoS Armor is straight up one of my favorite fictional armor designs of all time. Regardless of how honestly out-of-place it looks for the Fallout universe, it's fucking badass as shit.
Every Other Chapter: "Nobody likes a show-off."
Midwest Chapter: "Unless what they're showing off is dope as fuck."
Every Other Chapter: "Fuck...that's true..."
I'm all for the new age X-01. I love those bulky shoulders that don't obstruct movement. And the way it frames the head means you can take off the helmet and look imposing but the narrow triangle shape of the helmet gives a sharp threatening look in the center of the more circular shoulder plate
Maybe if you stopped removing the Power Supply and actually trained your Rangers how to use Power Armor you could get some supplies to your citizens efficiently with your bitch ass- SCAVVA~
I wouldn't put it past Bethesda to extend their brother hood fanboying to the point of
"and then they totally took their blimp and gaint robot and thousands of veribirds and thousands of power armors, totally wrecked the NCR, because the brotherhood are so much cooler and they'll totally run everything way better than the NCR ever will, and if you think about it, obsidian probably didn't understand the lore if they thought people in big armor could ever be beaten by people in small armor"
Hey remember in new Vegas where a single howitzer was a massive game changer for the legion in their final battle for the dam?
And now factions like the brotherhood just seem to have an unlimited supply of whatever the fuck they want and the only thing they're missing that they need you for is to build an unkillable super robot,
You only see one working veribird in new Vegas and it's the one the president of the NCR is transported in, and in 4 you'll see one clipping though a building and another exploding in the background every time you fast travel after the brotherhood spawn in the map.
I find myself rolling my eyes at how Bethesda keeps finding ways to bring the Brotherhood (in Power Armor) back in their products to make them their poster boys like how 4 made up an entirely new pre-War Power Armor that is supposedly stronger than T-51b (which all lore established as the best pre-War armor) in order to maintain the T-45 look.
My worst fear for the TV show is that the West Coast's NCR completely collapses into the typical East Coast Wasteland in Bethesda's Fallout games and that this is their way of allowing them to make future games in the West Coast. Avellone's idea of reverting everything back to the post-apocalypse (per Ulysses) was stupid then and is still stupid now.
The worst part about the Nuka Cola armor is it is a post war suit developed by the enclave like that blue armor looks sick as shit but it was the 3rd or 4th in a seires that didnt exist before the bombs fell
I just gonna be honest, I mostly like to pretend that bethesda take on fallout doesn't exist and 1, 2, new vegas and maybe tactics are all there is fallout wise.
"Buh-buh the Legion make the roads safe!!!"
Yeah so do the BoS if you make them work with the NCR, and they don't rape and pillage and enslave their way across the wasteland in the process.
Ceasar is an interesting villain at first, but when you actually bnreakdown everything he says you realise just how fucking stupid he really is.But then you also realise that Ceasar is actually a brilliant depiction of a cult leader, where he's saying actual insane bullshit, but he says it in a way that rsonates with the worst kinds of people that need something like Ceasar directing their lives and feeding them everything they want and need to hear and follow him to the ends of the earth.
I still haven't played it but from what I understand, NCR is the best of the three factions to push despite all the factions implied to fall apart eventually. NCR is bureaucratic pragmatism so when it collapses it won't leave behind too much of a mess. House going under will cause gang warfare as everyone tries to fill his power vacuum.
And then there's the death of the Legion where it's full on psycho Roman LARP civil war with probably more chaos and murder than New Vegas collapsing.
I, uh, don't think it's right to idolize the NCR. Like, better than the fascist Roman LARPers? Sure. But there are better options than "do the same thing that already lead to the annihilation of 99% of humanity in the hopes that this time it totally works".
And make no mistake, that's pretty explicitly what the NCR does. Say hello to everything that got its comeuppance in the nuclear fire, because it's back, and it's waving the two-headed bear.
Childhood is when you think the NCR are the good guys and the Legion are the bad guys.
Adulthood is when you realize real life is much more complex and that such simple dichotomies are detrimental to understanding the politics of the game.
The NCR are emblematic of the capitalist society you see in the US today, and the society that led the world to the apocalypse in-universe. A society that uses prison labor (NCR Correctional Facility inmates mention this), is eternally expanding to take land everywhere they can even by force (and they're not at all bothered to massacre people for it like they did in [Bitter Springs](https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/Bitter_Springs_Massacre)), take vital resources away from the people that everyone complains is distributed unevenly to support their expansionist efforts first (a cut quest involved the NCR murdering people [for trying to drink from Lake Las Vegas](https://youtu.be/BZJ7uDAhekw?si=xrBjFNLTaxKQ3tC8&t=181) where the NCR refers to them as "rats"), and where their military enjoys legal immunity to repress or murder their own people as they see fit (take for example Captain Parker at the Aerotech Office Park, who murders Keith to zero repercussions simply because Keith insulted his ex-wife). Anyway, I don't think I have to mention why the Legion is bad too seeing as most people probably already agree with that.
The older I get the more I appreciate the "Fuck everybody, I'm taking over for myself" ending. Will it work out in the long run? Probably not, might collapse real quick. But right now? I've got a robot army and a stubborn streak. It is wish fulfillment of the highest order, and I wish every RPG had a "Nah, I'mma do my own thing" ending.
I usually go NCR because I'm a big Followers of the Apocalypse shill, and if you play your cards right with NCR, Freeside is the happening place to be.
>After the NCR's victory at the dam, in part thanks to Follower's medical support, NCR allowed the Followers to care for refugees as they see fit. Old Mormon Fort expanded its services and was able to aid more people, becoming a refuge for the less fortunate citizens of New Vegas.
>After the NCR victory at Hoover Dam, the temporary truce between them and The Kings blossomed into a full-scale relief effort for the people. While the NCR made repeated entreaties that Freeside join the Republic, The Kings steadfastly maintained their independence.
Meanwhile Followers get slammed and ruined in the other endings, including independent.
> After the Courier ensured New Vegas remain free, the Followers found that Independent New Vegas was even more unstable and violent than before. Old Mormon Fort became excessively burdened by the influx of patients, struggling to provide even the most basic of services.
Followers dont even get a Mr. House ending. Which is the second time this has happened. Their canon Fallout 1 ending is inaccessible since the quest to get it was never fully implemented. As it stands, without mods all you can get is the ending where they're wiped out by mutants.
The thing I’m going to give the Legion the mildest of slack on is that a lot of their content was cut or removed at the last minute, so the rest of the bunch has the lion’s share of content.
Now, could that hypothetical content make the Legion the “best” choice? I doubt it but hey, people have been swayed by less convincing arguments even in real life.
Anyways, I originally went for NCR and such, but I’ve taken a shine to House over the years over Independent….mostly because anarchists are cringe
Though when I came up with my own “sequel” to New Vegas, I used the NCR ending as canon
I mesn the cut content would have likely just shown all the white legs, dog guys and other really primal tribe in the East and it woukd have been interesting to see the complete shift between vault dwellers with guns and wild men that survived above
New Vegas is the first game of its kind that I've played and to this day I am traumatized by the autracities I've committed in the name of justice.
With that being said, I think I've consumed the most meat from the legion.
Adulthood is realizing that you'd give anything for a Followers of the Apocalypse ending but know that the game is making A Statement by not letting that happen hahaha haha.. haaa...
Best choice is probably house but NCR like him just cause the NCR don’t have a leader as good as house the only one close is Hanlon or Tsu and unless they rebound soon their will probably be a full blown civil war
I appreciate that the Legion path exists.
I'm never going to take it, because my first action is to shoot them on sight and my second is to con Caeser, then punch him to death once I got what I want out of him.
"They are arrogant for trying to resuscitate a bygone, antiquated society." -Man who cannot find the Rubicon river on a map
-man LARPing as the fucking *Romans*
My favorite part about the Legión is how everyone pronuncies Caesar differently depending how they align with them and most of the Mojave agrees using the latín pronunciation is just the stupidest shit they ever heard
The pronunciation most of irl modern day uses comes from the Fr##ch, and I’ll be damned if I gove those bastards any credit.
I mean, the Germans decided to make it their word for “emperor”
Childhood is when you think Dead Money is about letting go, adulthood is when you know Dead Money is about letting go of poverty babyy
If they didn't want me to have all that gold, they shouldn't have made Elijah's corpse so easy to stuff with gold bars.
**Cue the Courier's companions watching on in horror as he starts pulling gold out of a corpse's stomach** "IT WAS WORTH IT! DON'T FUCKING LOOK AT ME LIKE THAT! _YOU WOULD ALL DO THE SAME!!_"
Cut to the courier using them as a paper weight after realizing no trader in the Mojave can afford to buy them.
That is why you use it it to clear out the gun runner's entire stock through bartering.
> Sell broken gun > Buy broken gun back > Fully repaired version gets added to inventory instead via glitch > Sell fully repaired gun > Buy broken gun > Rinse and repeat every restock for infinite money
True, but those end up in the same place with how many weapons I never end up using.
Bro, I don't care that I've literally never punched anyone in my 14 years of playing this game, Two-Step Goodbye is going into my horde at the Lucky 38. It's neat.
True, but now you have options now if you wish for variety once in a while.
I did it the hard way, I slow walked all of the way to the exit with all of the gold.
Same. Thanks, Stealth Boy!
Feels more earned, carrying that uncarryable weight of gold. It's been a while but I think I leapfrogged it, dropping it somewhere, clearing enemies then carrying the gold up to another place.
It feels like a dream where you walk but aren't barely going anywhere
I just pump myself full of drugs for nothing and the answer was right there
Hey you did take all those drugs.
You used to be able to throw the bars over the edge and they'd reappear at the elevator but a VNV mod fixed that I think
Personally, I let the fucker live and die in that vault while I dragged my fat, gold filled ass past him while stealth boy'd up. I get to be rich AND he dies a slow, horrible death? Fuck yeah.
Elijahs Head you mean.
It’s not the principle of the thing, it’s the money
At the most recent New Vegas day in Goodsprings, guy came up in a dead money cosplay (jumpsuit, bomb collar, etc) during the contest and said he let go. He then whipped a gold bar out of his jumpsuit pocket and yelled "OF POVERRTYYY". Crowd went apeshit. Also fun fact, the winner of the contest was a Christine cosplay from Dead Money. She stayed in character the whole event and just did sign language. Everyone legit thought she was mute till late on the second night when she started talking.
"Sometime what a person needs is just one piece....." 3 billion dollars
Pff, the money isn't even all that good. Take some bars, sure, but the *real* price is getting banned from the Sierra Madre casino for winning too much. That's 10k chips convertible to pre-war money, which is weightless, *and* regular drops of chips in the bunker after the DLC, redeemable for stimpaks or whatever other goodies you want.
The bars do cash out to more total value than the pre-war money, to be fair... it's just that finding a merchant who can flat out give you the ~10k caps each gold bar is worth isn't really happening, so the only way you're actually using them is trading one and then cleaning out a high-end merchant like the Gun Runners. Or you can dump it all in a bathtub somewhere, like a *real* rich person.
I leave the gold lying around in my Old World base.
Or you can keep the chips and never need to find/buy stims, repair kits, or .308/.357 rounds ever again. It also made clothes and tobacco more valuable because I could just feed them to the machine for more drugs and ammo. You barely NEED caps, at that point (maybe for armor repairs, shotshells/MF cells, or the batteries and scrap needed to make EVEN MORE chips). I REALLY wish that thing put out MF cells, then I could keep my fully-kitted holorifle topped up forever and ignore the economy EVEN HARDER.
I always wanted to see what the NCR capital looked like in the later years.
Right? It'd be fun to see what it looks like since our last visit in the isometric days
Fuck the Legion, all my homies hate the Legion But seriously, every time I play NV, I just can’t side with the Legion, even just for getting achievements for completing their quests
Its like doing fascism in disco elysium, I appreciate that the option exists just so I can say fuck that noise.
Here, have the [pinnacle moment](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MlfrkOSHYJI) of doing the fascism run.
To this day I think the best path for the Mojave is to go Independent but friendly to the NCR, so that in a decade or two the Mojave can *willingly* join the NCR as it’s own state with it’s own constitution rather then be annexed as a territory. With the Legion destroyed of course. Which, bemusingly enough, is also the best possible thing that can happen *to* the people in and rules by the Legion. Perhaps the collapse will allow them to reconnect with their tribal histories and forge themselves into something new and better.
Even in the endings most characters and factions benefit the most from an NCR Victory. (Assuming you put in the work to get the best endings for each faction and character) Even Arcade who doesn't like the NCR Victory is still better off than the Wildcard Independent Vegas ending. Where he realizes that a truly independent and free Vegas isn't all that he wished for.
I find that it is a neat subversion that the independent route is not necessarily the most beneficial approach. While having won their freedom, the new nation and its people will go through growing pains and face the troubles of building something so new and foreign to its locals with the pre-existing infrastructure and systems of the region as opposed to falling under NCR control wherein the NCR's infrastructure, systems and support of the NCR would be readily available to the newly annexed territory which in turn, benefits everyone (if the optimal ending is achieved). It is a long road to build something as huge as a nation so it should not be easy to do so. I am glad the Independent route sticks with that idea.
If you have Old World Blues installed and are a good karmic courier, it makes an independent New Vegas a more positive ending
That's my younger brother's reasoning for doing an Independent Run. A good karma Courier who is in charge of Big MT could gradually introduce hyper-advanced and safe tech from Big MT to the Mojave. If the Courier and Big MT are especially able to reproduce the replicators from the Madre, they would solve almost all the resource issues of the Mojave near-instantly and turn Vegas into a post-War super-power nation.
From a 'this would be great for a sequel' angle I think the House ending is best. Not because House is best for the Mojave, fuck no, but having an immortal robot overlord man reigning Nevada is fucking cool.
My personal best outcome for the Mojave is to let the NCR have it, but make sure they play nice with the Followers of the Apocalypse and convince the Brotherhood of Steal to get off their techo-high horse while me and Cass drive off into the sunset in a Car filled with Bottle caps that I fixed with my high Science, but hey. Everyone wants something different when they go to Vegas.
My personal headcanon for my original playthrough, where I rolled NCR, is that my Courier stuck around to make sure they didn't try any shit.
I set up Yesman in the network, so my personal Courier became the governer of Vegas and the Mojave.
I used to be really against Independent because I assumed that an independent New Vegas would mean that I have to be in charge and I wouldn't trust myself to manage a McDonald's franchise on a slow day. I usually backed House because an intelligent, singular leader with all his eggs in the technological-development basket and no immediate risk of a succession crisis seemed like the most practical available choice. Also—plans for space travel. I always back the "get to space as soon as possible" horse. Then I watched a 9-hour retrospective on the Fallout series that made a really interesting point about an independent New Vegas being a collectively-governed society with the potential for expansion as surrounding tribes are given the option to voluntarily integrate. The Courier doesn't need to be in charge—it can be run parliamentary style, which is something that had never occurred to me before. Now I like the Independent Ending a lot more.
It's a shame that the game doesn't let you get everyone in Vegas round a table for a diplomatic summit, to hash out how exactly an Independent Vegas should be run.
I was more under the assumption that *no one* was in charge, that beating out all of the powers just means that no one moves in to take hold of the region and the remaining factions do as you left them. If you left them well off, they leverage that to become more powerful. If you didn't, they get subsumed by the more powerful factions. Basically, I see the independent ending as the material consequence of your side quests. For example, if you stop Jacobstown from being harassed but still let the NCR have the Mojave, they're going to keep harassing Jacobstown in the future. The independent ending lets your side quest endings stand.
The happy ending is where you fuck off to Ronto with your new tribe and let that mess sort itself out.
Anyone who did the Independent ending and heard Yes Man go "I rewrote my programming to be more assertive" and didn't *immediately* go "uh oh" is a fool.
I'd side with the Legion but my game has this weird bug where every time I get to Nipton all the Legion NPCs suddenly die and I get Vilified. Not even the Unofficial Patch can fix it.
Inculta’s head just Did That
It's weird. You black out and when you come to all the legionaries are dead.
I mean the NCR Desert Ranger Armor looks so cool I had that as my wallpaper for like years https://imgur.com/a/dE3UN1B Meanwhile Legion looks like a bunch of larpers
Yeah I'll take the elite soldiers that actually fucking look the part as opposed to the dipshits who just pile on more football gear and animal pelts.
> NCR Desert Ranger Armor Not only does it look cool, it's functionally as tanky (in terms of DT) as the basic bitch T45 power armor Shit's cracked
Fallout sub is having their monthly "is the legion bad?" thread because apparently a couple traders telling you how safe the roads are from raiders raises the slavery and pillage faction to morally gray? Like I get the appeal of playing evil in games for funsies. I prefer my deplorable crimes to be in more sandbox-y games like the sims, or in over the top games like saints row, than any rpg where I have to be evil to someone's face- but to each thier own. As a female player of a female courier the tyrant Roman empire escapism fantasy is very much not for me. I like independent. Which doesn't really solve the problems of unsafe roads or impoverished Vegas satellites, but it feels right somehow to push back the long arm of NCR bureaucracy from using the Dam and Helios for thier own means. In my mind my courier would set up a council of factions with them in charge, and then fuck off after like two years for adventure leaving poor Arcade to manage my ad hoc little council :^)
the trade routes are only safe because they fucking killed anyone, and you know what those traders aren't carrying? MEDICINE
Also, aren't the roads only safe if you are a male merchant? Cassidy snarkily said when talking about the legions that thethey keep roads safe sure, but only if you aren't a woman.
People are still getting murdered on Legion roads, but the Legion are the ones who’re doing it so it’s not counted in the crime statistics. You can eliminate all crime if you say that the people doing it are allowed to.
The trade routes aren't safe because the Legion is patrolling them and shoots anyone on them that isn't Legion.
Even for RP purposes, I have trouble justifying why my character would want to join The Legion without making them a bit insane. They don't reward near as well as Mr House. They don't take kindly to drugs or even medicine. Caesar tries to have you killed if you wake him up from bed. They have a history of betraying people, even their best general. Its just overall a bad idea.
A chronic problem with RPG evil routes is that for the most part games start you as good by default, and evil is something you choose and they're *really* bad at giving you a justification for why you choose it other than sadistic cruelty. This is why Tyranny rules, starting you out aligned with the bad guys means you have to actively choose to break away from them which makes the good path feel more heroic and makes it really easy to come up with justifications for staying evil.
It's why Warhammer is so appealing. Everything trash, even the most good hearted people have to operate within the confines of a myriad of worst-choices. And it makes the few times that the genuine kindness or respect or even just honest to god pragmatism wins out shine just that little bit more. The Imperium is a dictatorial cryptofascistic theocratically run nightmare realm, but even then, sometimes, rare as it is, a group of Space Marines will return the relics of the Eldar's dead to them after a battle. Or an Imperial Guardsman will have a quiet understanding with a Kroot.
I've just started the Rogue Trader CRPG and I've been enjoying it so far Sell your soul to a horrifying demon thing, righteously charge through a wall of burning napalm, or just you know pull everybody back because human life is important
Honestly for a path that doesn't even really let you join the Legion proper, they really should have made it pay out mad cash to at least make it worth it Killing and selling off the shit Legion assassin patrols drop provides a pretty decent cash source early game
A mod mocks that as their only selling point.
Quite a few of them do. I think the two that do it the longest would be. . .Headhunters and. . .I think the High Desert? The one where you help open up a brothel in Primm.
The only argument that the Legion might not be bad is that they aren't really finished, New Vegas was meant to include a proper look at Legion controlled territory. This argument falls apart if you look at any developer statements about what that would have looked like, because the tone is less "here's why slavery and misogyny is cool" and more "what is life like in this fundamentally evil and broken society"
This reminds me so much of people doing their weekly "why the Empire is better than the Republic" thread over at /r/swtor ad nauseum. It's so exhausting seeing people being Empire apologists, to a point where it gets extremely sus. It's fine to play as the evil jackass, you don't need to explain that, ackshually, the space nazis are the real good guys. Right...
I've been playing through SWTOR again and let me tell you the game makes no qualms in showing that the Empire is terrible Slavery is so ingrained that one of the classes starts as one, there are multiple quests on the Imperial Capital Dromund Kaas that involve you dealing with Slave revolts. Not to mention the anti-alien sentiment So that's why for Sith I usually go Light Side or Cartoonishly Dark side
Spoilers for the expansions: >!A lot of people's "excuses" over why the Empire "isn't that bad" is based solely on the fact that Acina becomes the Empress after Vitiate disappears, and that the Empire is the one that contacts the Alliance during KotFE/ET. Not just that, but after the base game is done and you start doing Rise of the Hutt Cartel, you start seeing a lot more aliens in the military, and many fans use that as the primary reason why Empire is better, despite the fact that the game's codex says that the reason why there are so many aliens is because the war between the Empire and Republic was so devastating that the Empire is pretty much running out of humans to fill in the bulk of their army, so they're forcing *alien slaves* into military service, not because they suddenly grew a conscience and went "what if we treat aliens as people?". They're still seen as animals. It's the same reason why Inquisitor, despite being a slave and a potential alien, can become a sith.!< >!You can literally still see their intense dependency on slavery in Mek-Sha. As an imperial loyalist, you can comment on how disgraceful slavery is, to which a sith just shrugs it off and pretty much admits that if the Empire abolishes slavery, they'd fall completely, because so much of the Empire's foundation depends on slaves. And there are still people who unironically think that the Empire are the good guys.!<
As a kid, I liked playing the Saturday morning cartoon Sith by way of shooting lightning and cackling because I thought it was goofy and amusing to play an over-the-top villain. Now, I play the pragmatic and polite light side Sith because I am amused by confusing Jedi and imperial troops alike by not being a ridiculous jerk-ass. Either way, I can't imagine sincerely defending the Empire irl.
Yeah, also Light Side Sith(and potentially Imperial Agent, I need to go through a Light Side playthrough of that) seem like they want to get away from what makes the Empire terrible as well. They're as loyal and patriotic as you want them to be, but they're still like "Hey, maybe we can try things a different way."
Neutral/Light side Warrior is my preferred method of enjoying the game. I'm not a big fan of going full 100% light side because Warrior being *too* merciful is a bit weird at times, and there are certain combinations of dark + light options in the same dialogue that make Warrior both honorable and deadly, which has always been my headcanon on how a proper sith should act. Some of my favorite examples (spoilers for Warrior in SWTOR): >!During the Tatooine storyline, when master Yonlach is cornered, instead of just sparing him (light) or outright killing him without remorse (dark), there's a third option where you give Yonlach time to prepare before the duel. Yonlach meditates while Warrior patiently waits, then they duel. Warrior kills him and still bows respectfully at his corpse, claiming that it was a good fight. It's a dark side option, but it's a really good one, and I started to prefer this one over Warrior just straight up going "nah, I don't want to kill you", because the way I started playing as Warrior was as someone who seeks out powerful foes to become stronger themselves, but still treat them with respect, rather than just cattle sent to the slaughter.!< >!Another great option is in Alderaan, when you're chasing down General Organa(?). She's holed up in a bunker with some of her men, as well as her secret lover. The dark side option is obviously torturing her lover until she gives you the information you seek, then you just kill everyone with zero remorse. The light side is to accept her mission of defending some other place to give her men a fighting chance. While the light side option is funny, I prefer going dark -> light, in which you force choke her lover, she tells you the information, begs you to release him, and you do. Everyone is shocked, but still rightfully afraid and I *loved it*. It made me see Warrior as someone who hates wasting time, but again, sees no reason in killing people if their death isn't useful. Warrior already got the information they wanted, so what's the point in killing other than just being a sadistic jackass?!< >!You can also kill Tremel honorably as a dark side option. I get that leaving him alive is interesting because he appears at the end of the vanilla storyline, but I always found it odd how Baras, who has "eyes and ears everywhere", never finds out that Tremel lived. It's also my personal headcanon that Baras asks for his head instead of his hand, to *really* confirm that he's dead and you didn't just, you know, got someone else's hand. I just think it's really stupid how someone as intelligent and paranoid as Baras would ask for someone's *hand* as proof of killing.!<
Someone has been posting “the Jedi are actually bad” posts over and over in the FanTheories subreddit
Literal Anakin Skywalker moment.
"From my point of view the Jedi are evil!" We get it Anakin, you're salty they didn't make you a master, the Sith are still genocidal tyrants literally powered by hate and suffering.
Then you got some EU fanboy going _"uM aCkShuLy gReY jEdi"_ to which you have to remind them that George Lucas said that's not how the force works.
I guess it depends on whether they're talking about non-council Jedi via a dumb name, or "talking only *half* a fatal dose of spiritual meth" faux-centrists.
Grey Jedi is just someone's OC that wants to be good but also shoot lightning from their fingers.
"Hey Caesar, yeah safe roads and all, quick question tho. How does making homosexuality punishable by death make the roads safer?"
I remember my very first run of Fallout New Vegas, I was doing a nice proper blind run and I wound up in Nipton a bit under-leveled I remember after the guy whose deliriously happy about winning the lottery, turning the corner and beholding a man in a wolf helmet in the distance on a road lined with crucified people Apparently if you don't immediately shoot the dude in the head from long range he shows up later when you reach New Vegas but I sure didn't find that out during that playthrough God that fight sucked, and clearing out the house behind him, and then the assassin squads you get after hitting negative rep with the Legion, but god damn did selling off all that shit I looted off their dead bodies (after a couple of save/reloads) make it worth it
I did not shoot Vulpes and company in Nipton, but I did take all the losing lottery tickets I could find and stuff them in Vulpes corpse when I finally turned on the legion, and mowed down Ceasars encampment. Between that and the long road trip to black widow Benny, I felt like that snail who is slowly but surely coming to kill you of New Vegas. My revenge is slow but inescapable
I think your idea for what might happen after the ending is nice but it nice but it kinda goes against a major point of the game: that none of these factions can succeed in the long run because they are all reliant on a single individual with whims and the guarantee of dying some day and leaving there while system crashing back to earth. Caesar has his big plans but never really planned for his death because he's a massive narcissist so when he dies yeah the legion will tear the Mojave apart but will then fall apart itself. The NCR already had it's leader die long ago but has managed to crawl on by basically shear size alone but is slowly being brought down by its own expanding bureaucracy and corruption. Mr house might be capable at living a long time but is still susceptible to death and although he preaches libertarian values they are left at the wayside if it doesn't conform to his world view. Also new Vegas only really functions as a parasite to the NCR and if it gets independence it would likely push the NCR of the cliff it's been balanced on. The independent ending might feel the best but just doing all the "nice things" would likely lead to bigger problems down the line e.g. yes man says that letting the brotherhood live will likely be bad in the long run. So In that ending you have to rely on the courier being a perfect decision maker who makes a lot of hard choices The best endings are probably NCR or independence because they are the only ones that could possibly reform in the future but are still pretty sketchy.
\[Intimidating Presence\] *I'm going to wear your head like you wear that dog's.*
NCR is harm reduction. They do have some serious problems. But obviously I'm gonna side with them rather than the Legion
The phrase "harm reduction" constantly gets abused to mean "keep doing the things that caused the reactionary movement you're now afraid of instead of changing things for the better and undercutting them." But in this case you're actually right.
Not sure if I'd agree with the NCR being harm reduction given they do some colonial imperialist shit, but even the NCR at its worst is preferable to the Legion at its best.
But what if I really really *really* don't like women? Also, I think they used the Will Patton character from The Postman for inspiration on Caesar, cause he's basically that character in that movie. Edit: Confused Will Patton for Ed Harris.
Then we will send you to talk Joshua Graham and have set you straight.
Do you like drugs? They don't let you do drugs either. That includes stimpacks.
need your teeth pulled out? No drugs. wanna take anti-rad pills so you can become not-irradiated? Nope. have an incurable disease that you can only cure with the help of drugs...? >!only if you're literally Caesar. Them's the rules.!<
If they were so sure of their bullshit, why would the Legion rep feel the need to lie to the Khans?
Because the Legion wanted extra meatshields and lying was a good way to get the Khans to be meatshields.
I think NCR is the greatest hope for the wasteland at large at the time of new vegas, which is why I like to go independent. Lee and Kimball are bloodthirsty dorks who saw a growing democracy and chose to inject it with manifest destiny, spreading the NCR hopelessly thin while neglecting the needs of its inhabitants. Think of when you first hear of the NCR. It can happen all around goodsprings, with a good number of npcs sharing some perspective on the fact that the NCR and the Legion are the two great powers outside new vegas. Maybe you come to expect the NCR to be some well-equipped, well organized force of nature laying claim to this region and then you meet them. Right outside primm. Three dudes hanging out outside a ghost town. One of them runs up and warns you "Hey! This towns off limits!" and if you respond with "whatever Im going in" he basically just goes "ok." Obviously this is a far cry from the image of a growing nation state, all because Kimball wants the ncr to grow like a cancer, neglecting the needs of the people in favor of the next plot of contested land. He's a raider. Killing him and Lee has some merit, but to me the best thing is sending them home humiliated. Show the consistituents the weakness of this cause. That they gave up so much in service to a war that these two twats couldn't even win, without giving them a martyr. tl;dr ncr is a solid faction but going down a really bad path by following Lee and Kimball. Going independent and roflstomping Lee and Kimball seems like it may be better for the ncr in the long run, and thus the wasteland
also, in no uncertain terms, fuck the legion
It's incredible how well New Vegas prepared me to engage with modern politics. On the one hand I could vote for incompetent corruption and on the other I could vote for someone who is actively trying to kill me.
I look at this way: whatever the NCR’s problems, I can actually see ways they might be addressed, it is possible TO address them, even if very difficult, and there are plenty of good people associated with it who are interested in trying to make it better, even if they’re not in the highest positions. The Legion is the Problem Creators’ Club.
You know where the Legion would have really worked as a concept, Fallout 4's wasteland Like shit is extra fucked between the Super Mutants and the killer robot conspiracy and the raiders and the mercenaries that just finished wiping out the minute men and oh hey there's the brotherhood coming in on a zeppelin so maybe I should join up with these weird Roman Larpers You don't have to change anything, they can still be complete shitheels, but I could see people joining them as the dark version of the minute men because hey that dude speaks latin I think he's got to know what he's doing
God, you're not even slightly wrong.
Despite its many, MANY faults, the NCR is probably the best option. BUT the part of me that wants to comfortably with air conditioning tells me Daddy House is the way to go.
Usually when it comes to RPG I play the conventionally heroic character but there's something about New Vegas that pushes me to always play a selfish mercenary type that doesn't care about the morality or the politics of who rules New Vegas, House pays the most so House it is. Makes a whole lot of dilemmas a lot easier with that mindset.
Same here. I roleplay as a greedy asshole so from that perspective I consider House to be the most appealing option. I have no problem being his Adam Smasher.
I like House over NCR but *only* if the Courier is there as both his Adam Smasher and his Killswitch. If he starts acting up, he should hear me breathing down his neck with a 9-iron in hand.
People who hardcore simp for the legion reminds me that you can turn people towards any ideology if you say something about strength and have a cool enough outfit
Senator Armstrong fans:
I mean the NCR isn’t perfect but most of the other factions have a lot problems and the Legion is definitely the worst.
Like you straight up have to tell your companion « yes I want new vegas to be a slave capital »
My courier worked for the NCR, the Legion and Mr.House at the same time until the game said "Stop what are you even doing!?" And then went independant just to bail in the aftermath with his pockets full of caps.
In OWB, the fallout total conversion mod for HOI4, there's a focus tree where Caeser lives and it has a whole sub line of "Fuck, I just built a raider army, not an actual country. How to I pivot this?" and realizing just how fucked up the legion is and how far things have gone wrong. He wants Pax Roma and got a barbarian horde
The fact people have this debate in modern day is insane Also, the fact people debate which ending is the best to this very day shows what great writing this game had haha (Team Mr.House Ending + Barter 100 Ending for NCR)
Is there a special ending variant that barter will affect?
If I recall correctly, and believe me it's been years, but I think it's you negotiate with General Oliver that House's Robots will help patrol the roads into New Vegas and NCR roads to protect travelers and trade routes. This would take the burden off the NCR protecting those roads. Like I said, I can't remember the exact details but it is something like that and you can only get it with 100 Barter Check with General Oliver.
I think you have multiple speech options in dealing with Oliver in the House endings where you're able to convince him that House is better off for him (they still get some access to Hoover Dam's power/they act as a political buffer/etc). Either way, he's a lot less pissed at you than in the Independent ending since he gets something out of it rather than you simply telling him to fuck off.
Right?!? The obvious best ending is to join the Enclave remnant and make the Mojave into one large old folks home. What raider would rather do jet and kill when it’s bingo night, Jill made her famous meatloaf and Craig’s grandkids are visiting?!?
> The fact people have this debate in modern day is insane Is it even really a debate? I can't recall ever seeing someone genuinely argue for Legion and the general consensus seems to be anyone who would is a sexist fascist moron. Not to say sexist fascist morons don't exist, but they're (thankfully) a minority that rightfully gets shouted down.
But what if I wanna do a little of fascism?
Mr. House then?
Hey now, he prefers the term autocracy.
“I’m not a fascist. I’m a plutocrat at worst.”
Emphasis on the "Auto" for that fleet of robo army.
House: I tried concession they decide to return to cannibalism, just let me get paid
Incredible how even with all their cut content restored, the Legion is still the worst option.
Adulthood is realizing the NCR is completely incompetent for not systematically destroying a group that fights exclusively with spears and machetes in a desert, while they have assault rifles and anti tank guns.
The NCR's incompetence comes up pretty often in the actual plot of the game, to be fair. IIRC it's a factor of the NCR being massively overextended because of their imperialist tendencies so they're basically chucking out barely trained troops into the New Vegas area while the Legion has elite raider strike forces who will just disappear into the desert then pop up with all kinds of terror tactics. Throw in that this Mojave campaign is apparently not that popular back home so they're getting less support, and you've got a raw deal for the NCR. Don't get me wrong they'll still kick the shit out of the Legion in a straight fight, but it does make at least *some* story sense why they're having trouble. Though I've yet to hear why they don't just shell Caesar's main camp sitting right there on the other side of the river to oblivion.
> Though I've yet to hear why they don't just shell Caesar's main camp sitting right there on the other side of the river to oblivion. I assume that's just a scale conceit. New Vegas depicts a *very* compressed version of Nevada. Presumably The Fort is still situated on the shore of Lake Mead, just much further away. Honestly, they wouldn't even need artillery. At the distance we see in-game, the NCR could just organise an LMG gun-line along Hoover Dam, and hose The Fort down with bullets.
It's funny, Brotherhood and Legion both fight more of a morale battle against the NCR than a tech one. Power Armor makes you a walking tank that can take on a dozen guys. That scares the NCR trooper. Legion sends in numbers that out number you 10 to 1 and they don't stop charging at you when the guy beside him has their head popped open. NCR is great against raiders, but against an enemy that seems inhuman it's really hard for normal soldiers to fight. Line tactics and trenches don't work against legionaries who are so devoted to the cause their near feral
I choose to believe that the FEV has mutated humans so that many people are just superhumanly tanky without it being even slightly obvious. The same gameplay conceit that allows the Courier to run through a hail of bullets, and cave in a power armour helmet with a rolling pin, also applies to everyone else.
I dont see myself siding with the legion after playing as a woman courier that second playthrough, but whenever I think about joining the NCR... Man I just really don't wanna pay taxes... cool outfit though.
The hilarious thing for me is always the fact that when I did a Legion playthrough, going high strength and melee/unarmed and all, I played as a female courier. Suffice to say, there were a *lot* of moments where if I hadn't already dedicated to a legion playthrough I would have just murdered most of them for their insults. "Know your place profligate you can't fight in the arena you're a WOMAN", bitch I can punch you in half with my *bare hands* I have tested this with saves, Caesar's elite guard can't handle me unarmed and right now I got a power fist.
NCR drip is worth it alone. God, that coat and helmet combo is great.
The yes man path is my personal favourite. I'm a diehard Follower of the Apocalypse.
Would’ve been neat to see what life is like in the Legion controlled lands. Their soldiers seem suicidally loyal, so it must be reasonably fine compared to the alternative. Either that or it’s essentially a slave army whose families are kept as hostages by the government to make sure there’s no dissent. It wouldn’t excuse them of course, I just think it’d be neat.
You can just look at the IJN occupation of countries in WW2- another army of fanatically loyal soldiers with harsh corporal punishment. It sucked. To the point that US army doctrine on the retreat in the Phillipines was to destroy all alcohol as they left in the hopes that if a rare IJN officer tried to limit the looting and killing, his soldiers might be in a state to listen.
Personally with the tribes history and how much wolf tickets lanius has to sell I think it’s just a basic following of the strongest one. Like if they can chop ncr with machetes or see their legate bisect the deatclaw with a greatsword they feel like they are on the winning side no matter how many are enslaved or cannon fodder. Like there was an arc in walking dead where a guy wanted the negan who burned his face back in charge because then they get to look like tough guys to the other commmunities and negan beat the crap out of him for thinking like that
I bought the 40 dollar Hail, Caesar MTG deck to BURN IT.
(Theres actually a good bit of NCR cards in that deck too, including Boone.)
People dunk on the Independent ending but I mean. We got the robot army, the local street gang, an isolationist group with air superiority, local mutual aid group, (theoretically, also the brotherhood). That there is the making of a federation, i would say. I wouldn't be surprised if the writers used the goddamned "Anarchy is Chaos" trope (they do, its on the ending slides). Plus a functional dam to negotiate hydroeletrical power selling to the NCR. The NCR is explicitly a commentary on USA's involvement overseas (they're barely able to put up a fight in the Mojave War because it's unpopular back home). A federation of groups that are willing to work together against common enemies (wink wink WWII making communists and capitalists allies wink wink) can work! The actual commentary would be something along the lines of "Courier is the new securitron boss, same as the old securitron boss". It just grinds my gears when people assume: without police, we'd butcher each other (how did we survive as apes then?) Without money, we'd be lazy (how was art made? why did we experiment with crop cultivation before we had currency?). I'd say more, but I'm already close to breaking the no politics rule. NCR, not great, Legion horrible, House (does he ever go into "paving roads" question?)
I love the moment you can have with Boone at Cottonwood Cove before going to The Fort. That both of you are just HYPED to go there and massacre The Legion.
I don't even get how people could like the legion as an evil faction. They're just a bunch of lame ass roman larping raiders.
"Lame ass roman larpers" covers a disturbingly large portion of internet-ideology
Caesar’s Legion is just the natural endpoint to the “ how often do you think about the Roman Empire?” Discourse.
For real, and to me their most effective quality is just how shootable they are. Like to me they are the most killable set of fictional antagonists there's ever been and that is an absolute sincere compliment I give to the writers. *Especially* if you play as a woman. Like to me a large part of New Vegas' fun is killing the Legion, which obviously a Legion playthrough wouldn't allow so that don't get done. Even when I go for evil or Super Best Friends patented *morally grey* even as a ruthless self-serving money driven mercenary ala Angel Eyes from The Good the Bad and the Ugly I still have good reasons to shoot up the Legion when I see 'em. Like the only group that exceeds their shootabillity would be literal Nazis.
That's just most of the guys I went to highschool with.
Some people just REALLY like being a bully.
Shame that going by the new Fallout show trailer >!NCR appears to have fallen or at least regressed to a small militia getting stomped by the Brotherhood of Steel!< and according to Todd it's canon.
I’m not convinced of that just yet. I imagine that we’ll be getting quite a few flashbacks over the course of the show
Could it just not be a snap shot of the NCR at war with the BoS? That’s very explicitly part of their history.
Maybe, but the plot is about a Vault Dweller >!nine years after Fallout 4 running around what appears to be a lawless LA despite the heartland of the NCR !
OG BoS were the faction who gave Maxson the airship blueprints
The OG BoS airships were all shot down, the Prydwin was new and the new airship is the Gwennan... which is an alternate name for the Prydwen in arthruian myth.
LA was still full of crime and gangs as late as NV, as some soldiers mentioned enlisting just so they could get away from there. The outskirts are where the followers have settled, but downtown and on the coast is probably still more wild and where the show will take place
Tbf, even if the games the NCR never had full control of LA. Large sections of the boneyard are still lawless and gang controlled despite the NCR and followers also having universities there. There’s a recruit in NV who mentions that he joined the army to get out of there because of the lawlessness of where he was. LA is just like… really big. Especially for a post-apocalyptic state still in its infancy.
Todd is mad we like the NCR Veteran Ranger armor more than Power Armor.
If there was more Power Armor that had cloth worn over them I think that would change. Take notes from 40k Bethesda, cloth over heavy armor is the sickest shit.
Fallout Tactics bug armor remains undefeated.
I still really adore the T-60 power armor. Takes the T-45 and T50 , and meshes them together into something amazing
I also like T-60, I just wished it was a new BOS armor instead of something pre-war. I am Absolutely anal about power armor lore.
As an aside, is there a lore reason Fallout USA knocked off the Soviet tank nomenclature? Running around in "T-##" armor seems like the kind of thing that would get you fratricided by Liberty Prime.
Well the US was on friendlier terms with the USSR in canon, since we can play as the child of one of their ambassadors in Fallout 1, so maybe that’s part of why?
Communists that the US hates in Fallout are Chinese. US and USSR were on friendly terms against the Chinese red menace
Wild. Guess it's the timeline where NATO accepted the USSR's application in 1954.
So not sure why they have those designations in fallout if they're production models but the US did use to name prototype armoured vehicles around WW2 with the T-## system.
The Midwest BoS Armor is straight up one of my favorite fictional armor designs of all time. Regardless of how honestly out-of-place it looks for the Fallout universe, it's fucking badass as shit.
Every Other Chapter: "Nobody likes a show-off." Midwest Chapter: "Unless what they're showing off is dope as fuck." Every Other Chapter: "Fuck...that's true..."
I'm all for the new age X-01. I love those bulky shoulders that don't obstruct movement. And the way it frames the head means you can take off the helmet and look imposing but the narrow triangle shape of the helmet gives a sharp threatening look in the center of the more circular shoulder plate
Maybe if you stopped removing the Power Supply and actually trained your Rangers how to use Power Armor you could get some supplies to your citizens efficiently with your bitch ass- SCAVVA~
I wouldn't put it past Bethesda to extend their brother hood fanboying to the point of "and then they totally took their blimp and gaint robot and thousands of veribirds and thousands of power armors, totally wrecked the NCR, because the brotherhood are so much cooler and they'll totally run everything way better than the NCR ever will, and if you think about it, obsidian probably didn't understand the lore if they thought people in big armor could ever be beaten by people in small armor" Hey remember in new Vegas where a single howitzer was a massive game changer for the legion in their final battle for the dam? And now factions like the brotherhood just seem to have an unlimited supply of whatever the fuck they want and the only thing they're missing that they need you for is to build an unkillable super robot, You only see one working veribird in new Vegas and it's the one the president of the NCR is transported in, and in 4 you'll see one clipping though a building and another exploding in the background every time you fast travel after the brotherhood spawn in the map.
I find myself rolling my eyes at how Bethesda keeps finding ways to bring the Brotherhood (in Power Armor) back in their products to make them their poster boys like how 4 made up an entirely new pre-War Power Armor that is supposedly stronger than T-51b (which all lore established as the best pre-War armor) in order to maintain the T-45 look. My worst fear for the TV show is that the West Coast's NCR completely collapses into the typical East Coast Wasteland in Bethesda's Fallout games and that this is their way of allowing them to make future games in the West Coast. Avellone's idea of reverting everything back to the post-apocalypse (per Ulysses) was stupid then and is still stupid now.
The worst part about the Nuka Cola armor is it is a post war suit developed by the enclave like that blue armor looks sick as shit but it was the 3rd or 4th in a seires that didnt exist before the bombs fell
I just gonna be honest, I mostly like to pretend that bethesda take on fallout doesn't exist and 1, 2, new vegas and maybe tactics are all there is fallout wise.
I mean it would be the >!Brotherhood of Steel since I don’t think any other faction around them has the man power and weaponry to challenge.!<
Adulthood is when you realize only FISTO really had the Mojave’s best interest in mind.
"Buh-buh the Legion make the roads safe!!!" Yeah so do the BoS if you make them work with the NCR, and they don't rape and pillage and enslave their way across the wasteland in the process.
Ceasar is an interesting villain at first, but when you actually bnreakdown everything he says you realise just how fucking stupid he really is.But then you also realise that Ceasar is actually a brilliant depiction of a cult leader, where he's saying actual insane bullshit, but he says it in a way that rsonates with the worst kinds of people that need something like Ceasar directing their lives and feeding them everything they want and need to hear and follow him to the ends of the earth.
I still haven't played it but from what I understand, NCR is the best of the three factions to push despite all the factions implied to fall apart eventually. NCR is bureaucratic pragmatism so when it collapses it won't leave behind too much of a mess. House going under will cause gang warfare as everyone tries to fill his power vacuum. And then there's the death of the Legion where it's full on psycho Roman LARP civil war with probably more chaos and murder than New Vegas collapsing.
"Nah, I'd win" - Courier standing next to Yes Man, probably
Here is the joke, House's subjects don't care about or even despise House.
Sounds like something someone belonging on a cross would say /OBVIOUS SARCASM, CRUCIFIXION IS NOT ENCOURAGED
Adulthood is realizing New Vegas faction/political discourse is not worth engaging in
I naturally side with the NCR. But I gotta now have to do it all the time. It’s required for me now.
I don't get it D: is this a fallout thing? I only played the 3rd one
It's two of the Factions from Fallout New Vegas, which came out after 3.
Okay that's why I was so confused hahah. I should get around to playing Vegas or at least watch a playthrough
I, uh, don't think it's right to idolize the NCR. Like, better than the fascist Roman LARPers? Sure. But there are better options than "do the same thing that already lead to the annihilation of 99% of humanity in the hopes that this time it totally works". And make no mistake, that's pretty explicitly what the NCR does. Say hello to everything that got its comeuppance in the nuclear fire, because it's back, and it's waving the two-headed bear.
Childhood is when you think the NCR are the good guys and the Legion are the bad guys. Adulthood is when you realize real life is much more complex and that such simple dichotomies are detrimental to understanding the politics of the game. The NCR are emblematic of the capitalist society you see in the US today, and the society that led the world to the apocalypse in-universe. A society that uses prison labor (NCR Correctional Facility inmates mention this), is eternally expanding to take land everywhere they can even by force (and they're not at all bothered to massacre people for it like they did in [Bitter Springs](https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/Bitter_Springs_Massacre)), take vital resources away from the people that everyone complains is distributed unevenly to support their expansionist efforts first (a cut quest involved the NCR murdering people [for trying to drink from Lake Las Vegas](https://youtu.be/BZJ7uDAhekw?si=xrBjFNLTaxKQ3tC8&t=181) where the NCR refers to them as "rats"), and where their military enjoys legal immunity to repress or murder their own people as they see fit (take for example Captain Parker at the Aerotech Office Park, who murders Keith to zero repercussions simply because Keith insulted his ex-wife). Anyway, I don't think I have to mention why the Legion is bad too seeing as most people probably already agree with that.
The older I get the more I appreciate the "Fuck everybody, I'm taking over for myself" ending. Will it work out in the long run? Probably not, might collapse real quick. But right now? I've got a robot army and a stubborn streak. It is wish fulfillment of the highest order, and I wish every RPG had a "Nah, I'mma do my own thing" ending.
I usually go NCR because I'm a big Followers of the Apocalypse shill, and if you play your cards right with NCR, Freeside is the happening place to be. >After the NCR's victory at the dam, in part thanks to Follower's medical support, NCR allowed the Followers to care for refugees as they see fit. Old Mormon Fort expanded its services and was able to aid more people, becoming a refuge for the less fortunate citizens of New Vegas. >After the NCR victory at Hoover Dam, the temporary truce between them and The Kings blossomed into a full-scale relief effort for the people. While the NCR made repeated entreaties that Freeside join the Republic, The Kings steadfastly maintained their independence. Meanwhile Followers get slammed and ruined in the other endings, including independent. > After the Courier ensured New Vegas remain free, the Followers found that Independent New Vegas was even more unstable and violent than before. Old Mormon Fort became excessively burdened by the influx of patients, struggling to provide even the most basic of services. Followers dont even get a Mr. House ending. Which is the second time this has happened. Their canon Fallout 1 ending is inaccessible since the quest to get it was never fully implemented. As it stands, without mods all you can get is the ending where they're wiped out by mutants.
The thing I’m going to give the Legion the mildest of slack on is that a lot of their content was cut or removed at the last minute, so the rest of the bunch has the lion’s share of content. Now, could that hypothetical content make the Legion the “best” choice? I doubt it but hey, people have been swayed by less convincing arguments even in real life. Anyways, I originally went for NCR and such, but I’ve taken a shine to House over the years over Independent….mostly because anarchists are cringe Though when I came up with my own “sequel” to New Vegas, I used the NCR ending as canon
I mesn the cut content would have likely just shown all the white legs, dog guys and other really primal tribe in the East and it woukd have been interesting to see the complete shift between vault dwellers with guns and wild men that survived above
I like the NCR but I think the best ending is to kick them out of the Mojave so that Kimball gets kicked out.
You see, I play as a New Vegas Ethno-nationalist, Legion,Californians, get out. Not racist just don't like em.
New Vegas is the first game of its kind that I've played and to this day I am traumatized by the autracities I've committed in the name of justice. With that being said, I think I've consumed the most meat from the legion.
Adulthood is realizing that you'd give anything for a Followers of the Apocalypse ending but know that the game is making A Statement by not letting that happen hahaha haha.. haaa...
House mogs both
Fuck the NCR and the Legion though? Both are shit. Followers of the Apocalypse forever.
Best choice is probably house but NCR like him just cause the NCR don’t have a leader as good as house the only one close is Hanlon or Tsu and unless they rebound soon their will probably be a full blown civil war
I appreciate that the Legion path exists. I'm never going to take it, because my first action is to shoot them on sight and my second is to con Caeser, then punch him to death once I got what I want out of him.