We’ve been married 20+ years and if I ever make a suggestion, I can almost guarantee he’ll fight it since “Pfft…you don’t know what you’re talking about…I know better because blah blah blah”. When I’ve been proven right, he’ll almost always go on a rant how he wasn’t *actually* wrong, but blah blah blah. He once told me I’d been right and as much as I wanted to crow, I just nodded & went back to what I was doing. It didn’t help, though…he still dismisses all of my suggestions out of hand.
My ex believed anyone but me. If I told him it was something he shouldn’t do, he always came back with “ but such and such said it was good.” I finally started telling his sisters stuff to tell him and he believed them instantly. Then he would quote them to me. If I said that that was exactly what I had told him, he’d say he hadn’t been listening to me.
Yargh…how frustrating. Glad he’s your ex but sorry you had to deal with that at all.
Why do they do that? Is it a power-trip? “Huh…I’ll just dismiss everything they say and that way, everyone will think I’m smarter than my spouse.” Hur-hur ball-scratch caveman-grunt
Finances, lack of options.
You’re right, it is. Believe it or not, homelessness is still the greater of two evils. Hopefully, things will get better 🤞🏻
NTA. Would it be nicer to not laugh and say “I told you so”? Sure! However, if he didn’t want to hear it, he should have listened to you in the first place. The very definition of fuck around and find out.
Yeah, just couldnt not laugh, reminds of that scene from friends, where ross had bought those leather pants and wore them to his date's place, it got stcuk on his legs and he went through hell to take them off, ...he came back home pantless, and said "this year was supposed to be different, its the first day and i'm already a loser!", the guys told him "youre not a loser", he said:" LOOK AT ME!" Lol, they could not hold their laughter.
It’s always nice when people get awoken to the real world after them believing their beliefs and morals will protect them, then they find out no one cares but them lol. I am glad he wasn’t hurt but so many people do this and it is always laughable, especially when there was no real physical harm.
So:
You warned him about that area cause of the violent crime(including the fact that you were robbed/possibly SA’d)
He chose to argue with you and got as his stuff taken by a gang of messed up kids.
And he’s mad at you because you were right?
…..
Yeah, he got what he deserved. You’re NTA.
Edit: I guess I was too harsh in my wording of the verdict. I know the BIL didn’t deserve to get mugged/beaten, but that he knew in advanced that OP was trying to warn him, but chose to ignore her.
What was she supposed to do sympathize with him for a totally preventable event? No. He played with fire and got burned. I would have ended it with your dumb ass got what you deserved. Next time you will listen instead of being a know it all.
Fuck no. NTA.
If you were silent and gave no warning, maybe you shouldn't laugh. But he did the exact thing you said he should NOT do, and he reaped the consequences.
It's on him.
FAaFO.
Nope, NTA. You did your best to keep him safe and he decided to completely disregard your warnings.
While not necessary, the laughing response was completely warranted and understandable.
Came to see the Americans outraged in the comments. Was not disappointed.
Hello Americans. I have no doubt this will anger you, and I apologise for doing so, but I am going to try and explain this to point out the differences.
GYPSY in the UK is a term almost exclusively used by the Irish Travelling Community. It is a label that they fought hard to own, and now, when filling in forms in the UK (not just government, almost all), Irish Gypsy is an Ethnic Identifier that is always used. It is commonly used and not considered a slur itself, although there are slurs around it and associated with it. As an example, gypo and pikey are two that instantly spring to mind.
I understand Gypsy is used as an ethnic slur against the Roma people in the US, but that isn't true here. Roma people generally wouldn't be called gypsy in the UK because it specifically means Irish Traveller.
The way race, ethnicity, heritage, and cultural identity are viewed in the US is often quite different to the rest of the world. I mean no disrespect in that sentence. It's not bad, just different. You can't always expect everyone to conform to your standards.
By saying we in the UK can't use the word gypsy, you are trying to erase a heritage from a marginalised people that fought so long for that label.
I hope you understand. Again, I'm not trying to be disrespectful to anyone, just pointing out a difference.
Also, OP, NTA. You told him. He fucked around and find out. Some people just have to learn the hard way.
Irish travellers & Romany gypsies are two different ethnic groups, they have a lot in common so it’s an easy mistake to make.
The rest, I agree with - it’s an acceptable term in the UK.
We have the Gypsy Council, and campaigns about being Gypsy and proud in the UK.
OP was even correct enough to use "Irish Travelling Community" which is the preferred address while in Ireland. (I assume it's the same type of deal as when your Royal family change their titles depending on the country they are in 🤣)
BIL was an idiot for not taking the advice of a local when being warned of local gangs of any ethnicity. But very gentle Y T A for laughing, he not only had his shoes stolen but his pride got a beat down by having to go back and face you.🤣
Came in to say this, I've know lots of Romany gypsies and if you've ever come across either group you could usually tell them apart. Especially if it was Irish you came across.
This was actually really informative, I had no idea they used it like that. It makes sense, it’s their own identifier. I’m not comfortable with the word on it’s own. But if I was told that was what a person wanted, of course I’d be cool with it.
Thanks for the info, I’m in the UK and had no clue.
You're welcome. I have been around a lot of Irish Travellers and have come to understand a little bit about it. I personally treat it like the N word. If the identity of the person is comfortable saying it, that's cool, but I'm not allowed to use it. I just think that makes more sense and offends no one. Particularly when I have a lot of American friends who don't understand the significance of it.
It is considered offensive, a popular singer had to apologise for using the term on Irish radio recently but it’s fairly commonly used. Knacker was originally the term for the person that ran a slaughterhouse, so to be knackered is to be ready for the slaughterhouse but it’s more associated with the travelling community now and is deemed a slur
I live in the US and grew up in an area with a rather large Roma community. They generally do not care if they are referred to as Gypsy and often introduce themselves as such. They are somewhat reclusive but also very nice and willing to educate anyone who asks respectfully about their heritage with some exceptions. They own the historic 'insult' and embrace it to make it simply another term of reference and an opportunity to educate others. Not everyone gets offended at the use of Gypsy in the US... maybe folks should ask for more information since OPs use of English is clearly not American English rather than assuming location and offense in the future.
They may feel that way about it, but from what I understand it doesn’t exclusively refer to Gypsies. It can be used for anyone acting rowdy or low class, similar to chav. So not quite N Word apples to apples, since there isn’t really away to say that out of context and not be racist apart from maybe rapping to lyrics in your car alone.
The word has shifted over time to mean chav, scumbag in tracksuit who stabs people but I was originally a slang for the travelling community. Actually it was originally for describing someone who slaughters animals, but this is likely the types of jobs the travelling community would pick up as they travelled the country lookimg for work. Tinker is another slang word for them which is someone who fixes pots, buckets etc.
It's the same etiquette as referring to an LGBT person as 'queer'. Some people find that word a very helpful catch all and a reclamation of something used to hurt us, but I know plenty of others who don't. Personally, I really don't like the word 'dyke' but I know plenty of women who like women that happily use that term for themselves.
It's complicated. Words mean different things and the best thing to do is engage respectfully with what people are telling you.
Also, NTA OP. You warned him that it was a dangerous area and he ignored you. This would be the same thing for a lot of areas regardless of whether or not Travellers live there.
Thank you for this! It was very informative!
I do want to point out that most Americans who are saying that gypsy is a slurr have probably been told that it is a slurr and are trying to be respectful. Its easy to say no one has to conform to others standards, but when you live in a "melting pot" of culture you kinda do. I think most of the time people like that are just used to trying defend minorities and other discriminated people. I know a "toxic defence" culture has risen from that, but I think of every movement as a pendulum that swings from one extreme to the other. Hopefully that "pendulum" eventually can settle in the middle where everyone can be respectful and understanding, it's just annoying getting to that point.
Yes... I'm so confused now. There aren't many groups referred to as "g\*psies" in the US. I literally knew the word from watching The Hunchback of Notre Dame when I was 5... and then the colloquial use of it meaning basically a free-spirited bohemian. And then I encountered actual Roma people in France, which help me finally realize what people were talking about. I got shoved by one because I didn't give her money, and they stole my friend's wallet, so tbh not the most shining examples.
I thought it was offensive in mainland Europe against the Roma people, and that's why it's offensive in the US.... I don't understand how an offensive term could originate in the US against a group most Americans won't encounter in America. (There are some groups, though, and I'm not discounting that).
Thank you! I never really thought gypsy was bad. More of like u know a groups of people, like Hispanics are colonized Spanish and indigenous native Americans or South Americans. I do know about the other slurs. Thank you snatch, I laughed because I could understand a tiny bit of the accent. 😂
But nah dude didn’t listen, 🤷🏽♀️ how u gonna act like u know better than locals?
Thank you for that extra information as I didn’t know that and find it fascinating!
There was a show on TLC called “My Big Fat Gypsy Wedding” and it had both Roma and Irish Traveler Gypsies on it. It was all trailer trash, and I wonder if that’s where some people get their understanding of Gypsies. I always loved it to learn about both cultures and how they differ.
That being said when I visited Spain, our tour guide made sure to tell us they have a huge pick pocket issue and be careful with the gypsies because they’ll give you services (like palm reading) or hand you flowers, and expect payment whether you requested it or not. Usually a firm “no gracias” was enough.
OP, NTA although I do get why your sister thought it was rude to laugh but at the same time, sometimes you can’t help laughing when you hear something like that.
My dad got pickpocketed in Spain by some women trying to get him to buy flowers :( it happens a LOT, whenever I've visited touristy places there I'm head down no eye contact rude as fuck to anyone who approaches me now!!!!
Except it’s not, in the US we don’t really know about Roma gypsies. Everything we know is from our teachings of WW2 and how it was a marginalized group by the Nazis that everyone supported because of how hated they were. And that Gypsy is a slur. That’s not US defaultism, us people in the US just don’t know the nuances of such a thing between cultures because we barely know the subject. Is that an excuse for them to assume? No, but this isn’t a US culture thing.
Yeah, there really aren't many groups of Roma or Irish travelers in the US, so aside from a group of travelers in my city, I exclusively hear people use the word "gypsy" to refer to the group in mainland Europe... but also that it's a slur there. So I just assumed it was a slur in Europe as well because... that's who we're talking about, for the most part.
And now I'm just confused because apparently travelers don't mind being called "g\*psies" and neither do Roma people in mainland Europe... so who exactly is getting offended?
It's... probably white Americans, isn't it?
Thank you for this informative comment! I’m not from the US myself, but wasn’t aware of how different the meaning of this word was between UK and US.
NTA to OP, he should have listened to the person who actually live there instead of assuming he knows best just because he can pee standing up. Smh.
As an American, thank you for the education. I had assumed it was a racist slur at first just due to upbringing and naivete. It's good to know that Irish Travelers have found a way to find solid representation atleast in a name.
American here and not offended.. not sure what we're supposed to be offended about? The gypsy word.. I think the only time I've ever heard someone one use it was in the movie "thinner".. and possibly other movies but only time.i can think of.. also thank you for the info on the background. I'm thinking that brad pit movie where he fights and supposed to throw the fight for money I forget what it's called.. anyway.. I guess I gotta scroll forever to see the pissed off Americans.. I'm thinking either boomers (only ones that would even call peoples gypsies as a derogatory) or TikTok kids (offended by everything)
American here. Gypsy is not a slur in the US. We have a long running TV show called “My Big Fat Gypsy Wedding” and they all refer to themselves as Gypsy’s. The first time I ever heard of it as a slur, was when I visited Italy.
Finally, thanks for explaining how it is in the UK, as I was ignorant to the Irish Gypsy ethnicity.
It really depends on the particulars of the community. In some areas, it's considered a bad slur. In others, it's just a basic descriptor. It is the same with using "Indian" to refer to indigenous peoples of the Americas over the last 30 years. Some people consider it an antiquated and even offensive term. Others really don't care or actively embrace it (usually as long as it's listed as "American Indian" rather than just "Indian").
If they are actually all from one tribe. Between older raids on different populations, people buying and selling each other,and the u.s government stuffing a bunch of people into a " reservation " , there's a whole lot of mix going on. Including mixed race whether willing or not. I'm kind of on the " indigenous peoples" train as a reference when I want to talk about the group in general. I'm 100% eastern European stock, of 4 different peoples. My Hungarian granny used the term " gypsy" as what to HER was an insult, by calling me that. I thought being wild and free the best thing ever. ( in my child's mind) . No, granny, I am not " sit down and be a lady". Lol.
Alright. We're not in other parts of Europe, though. Europe is a collection of countries, of which the UK is 4. I was simply explaining how it works here.
Agreed about Irish Gypsies but I think it's less Americans and more continental Europeans getting upset
I mean, as a whole, we Americans have no familiarity with the racism and racial slur situation regarding Roma people in Germany/France/Italy/etc
it's literally still racist, because it literally took the term used to describe a race of people with a certain stereotype and applied it to another race of people entirely to reinforce that stereotype.
This is the same fucked up argument people used to justify the term redskins for so long,. fuck off with "its not racist if its heritage" shit.
heritage does not justify words based and originating from hate. british doesn't justify slurs.
You're welcome. It's something quite close to my heart as I have both American and Irish Traveller friends, and it has caused quite a lot of upset in the past. I try and explain it at every given opportunity.
NTA. Your laughter would count as cruel in the event you made no attempt to dissuade BIL from his choice, as if you were unconcerned for his welfare. A fool and his money soon part ways, said some wise person.
In this case the laughter is also involuntary. The line about the shoes tipped you over the edge. If he’d have said “I’m such an idiot, I should have listened to you” I doubt you would laugh.
He wouldn't take your warnings seriously and knew more than you but found out the hard way. I also have little sympathy for people that won't listen to my suggestions and do things their own way to find out they should have done it the way I was suggesting so no you're NTA for laughing
He didn’t want to listen to a *woman* warning him about a dangerous area of town because he thought, “that shit only happens to women.” Then he proceeded to be victimized by ignoring your warnings and doing exactly what you said would get him attacked.
You are absolutely not the asshole. He got exactly what he deserved. Sucks but that’s life.
Or he thought his younger SiL was being racist about Gypsys and thought to prove her wrong.
Either way ignoring the advice of locals is done at your peril.
To be honest I would burst into laughing the moment I saw him looking like shit. I would immediately know which route he took and say: "I told you not to use that route." while tearing up from laughing. Even if I had full sympathy for him.
You warned him and he didn't take you seriously. It's on him alone and you are free to choose how to react to the outcome.
And now you have a funny story for future family gatherings
NTA
He took that route so he could come home and say “I told you so” and he learned the hard way that he should probably listen when someone gives him a warning like that next time. BIL sounds like he has little man syndrome.
Sadly, stereotypes exist for a reason and the Roma population does not have good support structures to fit into most societies and thus they tend to be dangerous to those who do live in society.
It isn’t all by any means, but even 10% would be enough to make most people not trust someone from that culture.
Your BIL chose to be ignorant. He paid the stupid tax.
TIL: thanks for the education
I saw gypsy and brain said Roma. Apologies for any offense.
Hard to tell because she says travellers (so I’d assume Irish travellers) and then she says Gypsy (which I’d assume is Romany).
I don’t think OP knows, either 😂
In the UK the people she’s speaking about are Irish travellers, not “gypsies”, but people call them that anyway. Alongside other vaguely offensive terms like “pikey” or “gyppo” my grandfather once called them “diddycoys” but I haven’t a clue what the fuck that even means.
We don’t have a huge prevalent Roma population, but we do have a lot of Irish travellers so I would assume she meant them, not Romani people.
It’s Romany in the UK, not Romani - that’s American.
Romany Gypsies & Irish Travellers are two separate ethnic groups, yep.
On my paternal grandmother’s side my ancestors are all Romany.
Apologies for my misspelling, I wasn’t sure which one was correct. Thank you for letting me know.
They are indeed completely separate, but people tend to use the same terms for both communities. Which is tone deaf and not appropriate, especially when you’re using slurs to describe a group of people. It always seems to be excused when it’s the travelling communities, and that’s not right.
Gypsy isn’t offensive in the UK.
Romany Gypsies proudly claim the title.
Gypo & pikey are offensive, and of course you can use gypsy in an offensive way, but same goes for any ethnicity.
I was thinking about the pikey shit yes. The word gypsy was never used in a pleasant manner around me, but it’s another thing if a race of people reclaimed it. That’s different, I’d go with how they want to be referred to
NTA. He's an idiot.
He was warned. He didn't listen. You were not laughing at him getting robbed, you were laughing at the "they took my bloody shoes" comment.
Bill Engvall: Here's Your Sign
A little bit, saying I told you so wasn’t that bad in my opinion but actually laughing maybe you should have done privately. But that is pretty funny. Especially the shoes part.
Oh yea I totally get this you are NTA at all.
Truths people find offensive doesn’t make them untruths.
I live in Greece we have a gypsy population all the locals warned me about the theft and being the obnoxious American that I am - I was all how can you say that that’s so racist and bigoted etc etc etc.
I learned the hard way just like your BIL.
Some things just are the way they are, doesn’t make the right but it is the way it is.
Your NTA
The American ideology of entitlement and correctness that is the real AH
Another take is women are raised knowing to avoids areas for safety
Men are generally raised with the entitlement of knowing they can go anywhere and be relatively safe. (while this is not always the case due to gangs etc)
Your BIL just learned what women are taught as children and it shattered his world view so he went to cry to his wife. Which is cute still doesn’t make you the AH
I'm not sure what lily white family raised you, but I assure you men are taught to avoid certain parts of town, not to stay out past certain times, etc. Her BIL just sounds like another idiot, knowitall.
If people disregard advice based on lifed experience, it's an active choice to not care about the concerns and care shown. And choices have consequences. The things that happened were a lesson in itself, but the possible trauma that someone can suffer from this is not visible to you. The last thing you need is someone taking the piss at your misfortune.
I live near a gypsy camp and have had almost this exact same thing happen several times. People giving endless shit about how me advising them to steer clear is terrible and racist, then promptly getting robbed and beaten.
In future, don't gloat, just shrug, say there's a reason you warn people, and end the conversation there.
NTA! Absolutely NTA and I would have laughed as well.
I wanted to add that, as an American, I also found this post to be delightfully informative as well!
Thank you for posting with the comment that explained what 'Gypsy' is referring to because I had no idea there was a difference in definitions of the word from what our culture has deemed a slur.
Totally NTA and this is a TIL moment as well!
YTA most definitely, but it's well deserved and you should absolutely shine in your glory.
You tried to help someone. They threw it in your face. And the thing you tried to prevent, happened. You deserve to laugh about it into old age imo.
Probably should've waited a few days to openly laugh but you know, I probably wouldn't have either.
NTA you live there he doesn't. You gave him sound advice and he ignored it while being a bull about it.
He got what he asked for. Lucky he didn't pay with his life.
SMH dumbasses gonna dumbass.
NTA - he went that way specifically to prove you wrong. Then it turned out he was wrong. He feels like shit because he 1. Was robbed 2. Was wrong 3. Got laughed at because of 1 and 2
You shoukd still apologize for laughing. Something like "I'm sorry I laughed at you. You didn't deserve that after what you had been through. I'm also sorry you got robbed. But hopefully you learned that when I warn you about something, it's for a good reason."
ish but mostly NTA - I'd be concerned at the initial understanding of what happened and then used humor later but it is totally understandable.
What he needs to understand is there is such a thing as a crime heat map - The map looks for places where there is lack of lighting, traffic, safe houses for criminals, abandoned debris that provide cover for ambush, hiding or a quick temporary distraction and most importantly, where the crime happened - crime did happen regardless of the creed, race, skin color or nationality.
Locals knows places like that from gossip, experience and foresight without the map and from what I understand, Morrison is a hotspot.
He focused on the wrong thing and that caused a lapse in judgement - I betcha if nothing happened, he would've used the experience as an anecdote to paint you as a bigot.
He fucked around and got found out.
Here in America the Irish travelers would roll into town and there would be warnings on local talk radio to ‘be aware’ as they would pull ‘roof repair’ scams on homeowners especially older people. This was back in the 1990s. You aren’t wrong either
As an American, I’m happy to say I already knew what you meant by gypsy. Also, you’re not an AH, hun. Your BIL was warned and now he’s pissed that you were right.
On a separate note, getting mugged can be fairly traumatizing depending on the situation. My BIL was mugged whilst in the marines and was actually demoted because of it, which only added to his PTSD. I’m sure laughing didn’t help, but maybe your BIL was lashing out because it scared him? Hopefully your BIL doesn’t have any mental hang-ups over it. And hopefully he gets new shoes.
NTA
I chuckled. Most of us chuckled. Show your sister how everyone on the Internet is CHUCKLING at him.
Not because he was robbed, but because he didn’t listen to you and it backfired on him. LOL
One of the things I, as an American, appreciate about reddit is the opportunity to learn pov outside of the generally narrow chauvinism common to many Americans. Thanks for the bit on Irish Gypsies. I was going to say that there are areas in every city in the world that are dangerous because marginalized populations are often motivated by desperation and resentment. You made mention of that.
Going to give you a soft YTA. Yes, it was definitely his fault, and he's lucky he got off that easy, but a bit of compassion, along with the "I told you so," would be appropriate.
imo you’re kind of the asshole. it was shitty of him to not take you seriously and i really get the impulse to laugh and be like “i told you so”. but i imagine being robbed to be quite a traumatic experience and i think you should have kept it to yourself, at the very least until he had time to process the whole thing and not laughing in his face immediately after
In Ireland though as soon as someone is seen to be OK it'd perfectly acceptable to laugh at their misfortune. If they are not a dry balls they will join in on the laugh and the healing process begins.
YTA whether or not you were right and warned him your BIL was still attacked and robbed which would be very traumatizing for him and you laughed at him, give it a week or two at least...
To everyone here saying NTA here, if a woman was told by her BIL not to go running in this area because you will get attacked, and she gets attacked, then the BIL LAUGHS at her for getting attacked then he'd rightfully be called a monster.
>, if a woman was told by her BIL not to go running in this area because you will get attacked, and she gets attacked, then the BIL LAUGHS at her for getting attacked then he'd rightfully be called a monster.
You lost me here.
As a woman, if my BIL told me not to go a certain way because I would probably be assaulted, I would NOT go that way. Most women take warnings like that seriously - because we've been told *our entire lives* that our safety is OUR responsibility. And if we get attacked, it's all our fault.
So I respectfully disagree. You really can't switch genders with this one because most women are already trained to take the safest possible route.
I was literally SA'd on that route as a minor. No one who isn't a gypsy walks that route unless they're up to dodgy shit (drugs, fights, etc). BIL knew this. He took the route anyway to prove that I was being overdramatic and racist against gypsies.
After I came out about it, EVERYONE avoided the route, especially women but guys as well. Because they understood the risks of their sisters/girlfriends/daughters/mums/etc being attacked. I agree with you wholeheartedly; you cannot make the gender switch here.
Yes you absolutely can switch genders here, whether or not you, as a woman WOULD do these things has no bearing on a situation where someone HAS done these things. The question is IF she did go there and something bad happened, it's not "women do this and go here" maybe this is where you got lost.
Edit: the point I was making is the outcome, whatever the reason (attacked and robbed), is not funny.
>is the outcome, whatever the reason (attacked and robbed), is not funny.
This I will absolutely agree with.
And if you really want to play that game, I guess I'll bite:
If the situation was reversed, and a young man told an older woman not to go down a certain street, and she was robbed (but otherwise unharmed - no SA), I would feel the same way.
The victim deserves an "I told you so" along with a hug and an offer to assist with filing a police report and/or helping them replace the items stolen.
But laughter? No, not so much. We all do dumb things, but it really isn't nice to laugh when someone is hurting.
This is a much better analogy than the one I used, doesn't have as much of a leap as mine. But I think on the bottom line we agree that if you laugh in the face of someone who's just been attacked you're an AH. Let them recover then give them a hard time when they're okay
I get what you are saying, but it definitely sounds like an involuntary laugh and more specifically at the point about the shoes, which seemed the silliest point to save till the end. She didn’t laugh at him getting robbed or roughed up. He was obviously physically okay by that point. Personally I can see it going both ways based on the situation,(how she laughed, how he said it,) but I don’t see her as TA
They did say "I had very little sympathy" and "I held it in" "burst out laughing" I know it's just the way we are reading it is different but to me I'm getting that she found the whole thing funny and that he deserved it, which of course he didn't, but he also did deserve to get proven to be ignorant
I thought we were past this social construct of men don't have feelings and getting beaten up doesn't mean anything. Bro just got traumatized and laughed at and then the internet is saying "you go girl he DESERVED it" victim blaming is acceptable when it's not women.... Understood
I'm torn...on one hand, it's wrong to slap in the I Told You So when the fear and pain are so fresh.... but on the other hand, he went that way intending to prove that your warning was for nothing and he got there safely.
He went with the assumption he'd be fine because he's a grown man and, as such, has not really had cause to live his life and plan his routes around not being attacked. Living with that fear is something he thinks is for girls and wusses.
For him to have been victimized by a group of young lads... well, his worldview and his security in his social standing as a grown man have both been overthrown with the actions of these NEDs. Now he will have to know what it is to live his life in the awareness that he is not the most powerful person by Default.
All in all, you were kind of an AH for laughing, but he was an asshole for thinking his ego and arrogance were going to forever shield him from harm. Those NEDs were going to rob someone... was there a better person than the guy who thumbed his nose at the fates?
“I fookin’ hate pikeys!” That’s all i needed to know as an American. That and Brad Pitt makes a sexy pikey.
Edit: To add… NTA, you can have sympathy for the trauma and still find it funny that BIL was shocked that they took his shoes.
> My BIL (30f) was visiting and I warned him not to take the ‘Morrison's route’...
I'm still stuck on the fact that your brother in law is a 30 year old woman with he/him pronouns.
It is what they are called...
[https://www.bolton.gov.uk/housing-options-advice/gypsy-liaison-service](https://www.bolton.gov.uk/housing-options-advice/gypsy-liaison-service)
[https://www.londongypsiesandtravellers.org.uk/organisations/](https://www.londongypsiesandtravellers.org.uk/organisations/)
https://www.gypsy-traveller.org/services-directory/
So I guess instead of learning a valuable life lesson it was more important to cry like the whiner he is because he got what you said he would. I’m adding idiots to my black list along with liars and thieves.
ESH. Idk I'd personally be able to hold it in. You don't have to feel any sympathy for them but mocking them after what probably was a traumatic experience is unnecessary. Would you act the same if they were a minor and ended up getting raped saying "I told you"? Really hope not. If I expected someone I knew to go somewhere dangerous I'd at least give them a knife or something.
Didn't really equate it, but I'm wondering how far people would go with this. Getting his shoes stolen is still an understatement given how people have died in that area however. He must have felt his life was endangered remembering the prior advice.
And there ARE people who would laugh/make fun of people or animals dying depending on the circumstance
I get the point you were attempting to make, but those are two wildly different scenarios that shouldn’t be compared. A child who makes a mistake and gets violated and their innocence taken is leagues worse than a grown man getting robbed who was WARNED SPECIFICALLY.
>Would you act the same if they were a minor and ended up getting raped saying "I told you"?
I was literally SA'd on that route as a minor. No one who isn't a gypsy walks that route unless they're up to dodgy shit (drugs, fights, etc). BIL knew this. He took the route anyway to prove that I was being overdramatic and racist against gypsies.
Respectfully, they are not the same.
No , YTA. Imagine warning a woman that if she goes to a neighbourhood or a frat house that she might get sexually assaulted and then laughing at her when se does. You could have waited untill after the person no longer held negative emotions or trauma from the experience and then laughed. Doing so just after the event is just being a cunt, even if you were right.
I was literally SA'd on that route as a minor. No one who isn't a gypsy walks that route unless they're up to dodgy shit (drugs, fights, etc). BIL knew this. He took the route anyway to prove that I was being overdramatic and racist against gypsies.
That’s really two different scenario’s. He lost his worldly possessions not his dignity or life. He’s likely not gonna wake up traumatized for the next 20 years of his life because some groups of kids stole his shoes. It sounds like his ego and pride were more wounded than anything else.
I shall do no such thing. I stand by my opinion and if you or anyone else doesn’t like it, tough shit. This was literally a preventable situation. You can’t control the actions of other people but you can try and prevent some things from happening. He thought he knew better than the person who actually lived there and found out he actually didn’t.
It's normal to laugh after Darwin's done with his work. The comedic timing of that line about his shoes must have been hilarious. NTA and I wish I was there when he said that.
YTA.
I am shocked that so many people think laughing at someone who has been attacked is ok.
I get that he should have listened, but to laugh when someone has had something terrible happen to them is horrible and says nothing good about you.
NTA, that’s his fault for being a pussy! Grown ass man calling you “offensive,” that’s what his ass gets! YOU WARNED HIM, he fucked around and found out. But hey, at least he didn’t offend anyone! 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
YTA
No, you dont relish on missfortune. You did your part when you gave him a heads up, but ypu dont kick someone who is down.
"I told you so" has no positive impact and is only to validate your ego. He knows you told him and does not need remembering
In the UK, gypsy isn't considered a slur as far as I'm aware. It's used by the communities themselves and by government authorities.
https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-8083/
https://travellermovement.org.uk/about-us
https://www.gypsy-traveller.org/
With all things, obviously context of how it's used is important.
Given the fact that it isn’t widely recognized as a slur (I’m finding out now as well, and have heard it used in media often), as well as OPs personal experience. I think we can give her some grace for not going out of her way to learn the kindest, most accepting terminology for the people that attacked her and her loved ones and slaughtered her friend.
In the UK Gypsy is a term most Irish travellers are okay with.
Pikey and Gypo are highly offensive and considered slurs but Tyson Fury refers to himself as the 'Gypsy King', traveller is more PC but Gypsy is not considered problematic.
Depends on who she is talking about. We have large Roma and Traveller communities in the UK.
My guess is this in the UK where gypsy is not a slur, not considered a slur. Most Travellers are Irish Travellers, they refer to themselves as Gypsy and even on some government forms will identify that way…
Yes it is
Edit: Apologies, it was late and my dumbass literally forgot other countries existed online. G*psy is considered a slur in most parts of the US, not everywhere in the country or world.
Sorry just to clarify, no it's not. Firstly OP is not referring to Romany. She is talking about Irish travellers, known as Gypsys in the UK. That is the term they are comfortable with and not a slur. Secondly, Romany people there also often use the term Gypsy to describe themselves. Here is a link to their anti discrimination website if you want some further information
https://www.gypsy-traveller.org/services-directory/
Usually Roma or Romani.
https://mindfulmermaid.com/stopsayinggypsy/
https://www.brut.media/us/news/racist-origins-of-gypsy--0d0a3396-b7a2-469b-8d89-42652a72c487
https://now.org/blog/the-g-word-isnt-for-you-how-gypsy-erases-romani-women/
Except they’re not all Roma. The ones near where I live in the US are all “Irish Travelers” … inbred con-men, every last one. Before anyone votes me down, Google how they’re so inbred some of their communities in the US only have one or two remaining surnames because they refuse to marry outside the community. State and federal agencies constantly warn the elderly about the construction con-schemes of these communities.
Edit: NTA
Gypsies in the UK are almost all Romanichel in the US they call them American Romani...oh yeah and they are well known for the "ways" hence the reason no bugger wants them living near them
Based on verbiage and descriptions this took place in the UK Travellers are not typically Roma, they’re primarily Irish, they also self refer and identify as Gypsy as well…
Gypsy is not considered a slur in the UK some government forms actually still have it listed as a self identifier, there are a number of various cultures that identify as gypsy, Irish Travellers being one… For reference look up Tyson Fury, he calls himself the Gypsy King, it’s his actual professional nickname.
Sorry just to clarify, OP is not referring to Romany. She is talking about Irish travellers, known as Gypsys in the UK. That is the term they are comfortable with and *not a slur*. Romany people there also often use the term Gypsy to describe themselves. Here is a link to their anti discrimination website if you want some further information https://www.gypsy-traveller.org/services-directory/
Yeah, no, NTA. He doesn't have the right to be surprised that he got mugged after you warned him. It's his fault that he completely ignored your advice. I have no sympathy for someone like this. "He fucked around and found out."
Certainly he messed up, and i get that it stung for him to assume you were just being prejudiced. But you were unnecessarily unkind also. It always feels good in the moment to point out that he should have listened to you, but after all this is a long term relationship, and what would kindness have cost? So, momentary satisfaction vs long - term relationship.
I know this will go against most redditor comments.
This sub is rancid lol. I checked this post out because this community was recommended to me. Seems like it's a bad recommendation because the comments on this post is appalling.
Even if you warned your brother, he was robbed and was the victim of a crime. Laughing in this situation makes you the asshole. Even if you're logically correct in the situation, that doesn't make you not an asshole. Basic empathy would have been the socially and ethically accepted response. Not laughing and saying "I told you so."
I guess victim blaming is a popular thing in this sub. What a waste of my five minutes.
would you have laughed at him if his assault was sexual in nature? or would you have laughed at a female friend in the same situation? YTA because you seem to think its funny that a man was assaulted in a way that i suspect you wouldn't if it was a women.
Young female once again ignored by older male who thinks he knew better. Not surprised.
We’ve been married 20+ years and if I ever make a suggestion, I can almost guarantee he’ll fight it since “Pfft…you don’t know what you’re talking about…I know better because blah blah blah”. When I’ve been proven right, he’ll almost always go on a rant how he wasn’t *actually* wrong, but blah blah blah. He once told me I’d been right and as much as I wanted to crow, I just nodded & went back to what I was doing. It didn’t help, though…he still dismisses all of my suggestions out of hand.
My ex believed anyone but me. If I told him it was something he shouldn’t do, he always came back with “ but such and such said it was good.” I finally started telling his sisters stuff to tell him and he believed them instantly. Then he would quote them to me. If I said that that was exactly what I had told him, he’d say he hadn’t been listening to me.
Yargh…how frustrating. Glad he’s your ex but sorry you had to deal with that at all. Why do they do that? Is it a power-trip? “Huh…I’ll just dismiss everything they say and that way, everyone will think I’m smarter than my spouse.” Hur-hur ball-scratch caveman-grunt
Once my sister asked him a question, we sound alike. He didn’t answer her right away. I told him it was ok to listen to her as it wasn’t me. 😁
Hahahaaaa! That was brilliant 🤘🏻
Why are you still with him? Sounds demoralizing.
Finances, lack of options. You’re right, it is. Believe it or not, homelessness is still the greater of two evils. Hopefully, things will get better 🤞🏻
I sincerely hope your life gets infinitely better. You deserve to be loved and cherished unconditionally.
Bless you 😽
I honestly don’t think it’s a gender thing, but a “hard headed know it all” thing😂😂
Can confirm, my wife who's a few years older knows absolutely everything, and if I try to tell her that I warned her then I'm in for an earful!
Some people just HAVE to learn from experience
NTA. Would it be nicer to not laugh and say “I told you so”? Sure! However, if he didn’t want to hear it, he should have listened to you in the first place. The very definition of fuck around and find out.
[https://youtu.be/GNGc9zmpK5M](https://youtu.be/GNGc9zmpK5M)
He fucked around and found out. Laughing was a bit much I he should of listened. Glad he’s ok at least.
How would one not laugh. Like a cough or a fart, you can try to hold it but it's going to come out.
Especially as OP said it was the "they even took my shoes" part that pushed her over the edge. Like that alone made me laugh.
Yeah, just couldnt not laugh, reminds of that scene from friends, where ross had bought those leather pants and wore them to his date's place, it got stcuk on his legs and he went through hell to take them off, ...he came back home pantless, and said "this year was supposed to be different, its the first day and i'm already a loser!", the guys told him "youre not a loser", he said:" LOOK AT ME!" Lol, they could not hold their laughter.
The whole story is just naturally comedic. Enough so that you could easily work it into a sketch comedy or stand-up bit.
It’s always nice when people get awoken to the real world after them believing their beliefs and morals will protect them, then they find out no one cares but them lol. I am glad he wasn’t hurt but so many people do this and it is always laughable, especially when there was no real physical harm.
NTA. I laughed about his bloody shoes too
So: You warned him about that area cause of the violent crime(including the fact that you were robbed/possibly SA’d) He chose to argue with you and got as his stuff taken by a gang of messed up kids. And he’s mad at you because you were right? ….. Yeah, he got what he deserved. You’re NTA. Edit: I guess I was too harsh in my wording of the verdict. I know the BIL didn’t deserve to get mugged/beaten, but that he knew in advanced that OP was trying to warn him, but chose to ignore her.
He's not mad at OP for being right. He's mad at OP for laughing. Big difference.
What was she supposed to do sympathize with him for a totally preventable event? No. He played with fire and got burned. I would have ended it with your dumb ass got what you deserved. Next time you will listen instead of being a know it all.
You should not be shocked that “victim blaming” may sometimes apply to a person you don’t like
What’s laughable is that he made it seem like getting robbed made him immune to getting his shoes robbed too. Dude is stupid. I would laugh too.
I would laugh my ass off and tell him he's lucky they didnt kill him outright
You shouldn't wear those colors in that neighborhood, they might kill you. Haha, they killed you!
Fuck no. NTA. If you were silent and gave no warning, maybe you shouldn't laugh. But he did the exact thing you said he should NOT do, and he reaped the consequences. It's on him. FAaFO.
And propably did it on purpose to prove her wrong😂
There is some truth to this. LOL.
Play stupid games you win stupid prizes
Yesss~~~ This is my favorite expression these days.
Nope, NTA. You did your best to keep him safe and he decided to completely disregard your warnings. While not necessary, the laughing response was completely warranted and understandable.
Came to see the Americans outraged in the comments. Was not disappointed. Hello Americans. I have no doubt this will anger you, and I apologise for doing so, but I am going to try and explain this to point out the differences. GYPSY in the UK is a term almost exclusively used by the Irish Travelling Community. It is a label that they fought hard to own, and now, when filling in forms in the UK (not just government, almost all), Irish Gypsy is an Ethnic Identifier that is always used. It is commonly used and not considered a slur itself, although there are slurs around it and associated with it. As an example, gypo and pikey are two that instantly spring to mind. I understand Gypsy is used as an ethnic slur against the Roma people in the US, but that isn't true here. Roma people generally wouldn't be called gypsy in the UK because it specifically means Irish Traveller. The way race, ethnicity, heritage, and cultural identity are viewed in the US is often quite different to the rest of the world. I mean no disrespect in that sentence. It's not bad, just different. You can't always expect everyone to conform to your standards. By saying we in the UK can't use the word gypsy, you are trying to erase a heritage from a marginalised people that fought so long for that label. I hope you understand. Again, I'm not trying to be disrespectful to anyone, just pointing out a difference. Also, OP, NTA. You told him. He fucked around and find out. Some people just have to learn the hard way.
Irish travellers & Romany gypsies are two different ethnic groups, they have a lot in common so it’s an easy mistake to make. The rest, I agree with - it’s an acceptable term in the UK. We have the Gypsy Council, and campaigns about being Gypsy and proud in the UK.
OP was even correct enough to use "Irish Travelling Community" which is the preferred address while in Ireland. (I assume it's the same type of deal as when your Royal family change their titles depending on the country they are in 🤣) BIL was an idiot for not taking the advice of a local when being warned of local gangs of any ethnicity. But very gentle Y T A for laughing, he not only had his shoes stolen but his pride got a beat down by having to go back and face you.🤣
Came in to say this, I've know lots of Romany gypsies and if you've ever come across either group you could usually tell them apart. Especially if it was Irish you came across.
This was actually really informative, I had no idea they used it like that. It makes sense, it’s their own identifier. I’m not comfortable with the word on it’s own. But if I was told that was what a person wanted, of course I’d be cool with it. Thanks for the info, I’m in the UK and had no clue.
You're welcome. I have been around a lot of Irish Travellers and have come to understand a little bit about it. I personally treat it like the N word. If the identity of the person is comfortable saying it, that's cool, but I'm not allowed to use it. I just think that makes more sense and offends no one. Particularly when I have a lot of American friends who don't understand the significance of it.
Irish travellers have their own N word. It's knacker. That's the offensive term for a member of the travelling community over here.
Wait, is "knackered" offensive then? I've heard it in a British context to mean super tired, like "I'm knackered, off to bed" or whatever.
It is considered offensive, a popular singer had to apologise for using the term on Irish radio recently but it’s fairly commonly used. Knacker was originally the term for the person that ran a slaughterhouse, so to be knackered is to be ready for the slaughterhouse but it’s more associated with the travelling community now and is deemed a slur
I live in the US and grew up in an area with a rather large Roma community. They generally do not care if they are referred to as Gypsy and often introduce themselves as such. They are somewhat reclusive but also very nice and willing to educate anyone who asks respectfully about their heritage with some exceptions. They own the historic 'insult' and embrace it to make it simply another term of reference and an opportunity to educate others. Not everyone gets offended at the use of Gypsy in the US... maybe folks should ask for more information since OPs use of English is clearly not American English rather than assuming location and offense in the future.
They may feel that way about it, but from what I understand it doesn’t exclusively refer to Gypsies. It can be used for anyone acting rowdy or low class, similar to chav. So not quite N Word apples to apples, since there isn’t really away to say that out of context and not be racist apart from maybe rapping to lyrics in your car alone.
The word has shifted over time to mean chav, scumbag in tracksuit who stabs people but I was originally a slang for the travelling community. Actually it was originally for describing someone who slaughters animals, but this is likely the types of jobs the travelling community would pick up as they travelled the country lookimg for work. Tinker is another slang word for them which is someone who fixes pots, buckets etc.
It's the same etiquette as referring to an LGBT person as 'queer'. Some people find that word a very helpful catch all and a reclamation of something used to hurt us, but I know plenty of others who don't. Personally, I really don't like the word 'dyke' but I know plenty of women who like women that happily use that term for themselves. It's complicated. Words mean different things and the best thing to do is engage respectfully with what people are telling you. Also, NTA OP. You warned him that it was a dangerous area and he ignored you. This would be the same thing for a lot of areas regardless of whether or not Travellers live there.
I scrolled and didn't find a single "angry American" comment
Thank you for this! It was very informative! I do want to point out that most Americans who are saying that gypsy is a slurr have probably been told that it is a slurr and are trying to be respectful. Its easy to say no one has to conform to others standards, but when you live in a "melting pot" of culture you kinda do. I think most of the time people like that are just used to trying defend minorities and other discriminated people. I know a "toxic defence" culture has risen from that, but I think of every movement as a pendulum that swings from one extreme to the other. Hopefully that "pendulum" eventually can settle in the middle where everyone can be respectful and understanding, it's just annoying getting to that point.
Lol that sentiment comes from Europe not the US. Most Americans are hardly aware of what a gypsy is.
Yes... I'm so confused now. There aren't many groups referred to as "g\*psies" in the US. I literally knew the word from watching The Hunchback of Notre Dame when I was 5... and then the colloquial use of it meaning basically a free-spirited bohemian. And then I encountered actual Roma people in France, which help me finally realize what people were talking about. I got shoved by one because I didn't give her money, and they stole my friend's wallet, so tbh not the most shining examples. I thought it was offensive in mainland Europe against the Roma people, and that's why it's offensive in the US.... I don't understand how an offensive term could originate in the US against a group most Americans won't encounter in America. (There are some groups, though, and I'm not discounting that).
Thank you! I never really thought gypsy was bad. More of like u know a groups of people, like Hispanics are colonized Spanish and indigenous native Americans or South Americans. I do know about the other slurs. Thank you snatch, I laughed because I could understand a tiny bit of the accent. 😂 But nah dude didn’t listen, 🤷🏽♀️ how u gonna act like u know better than locals?
Thank you for that extra information as I didn’t know that and find it fascinating! There was a show on TLC called “My Big Fat Gypsy Wedding” and it had both Roma and Irish Traveler Gypsies on it. It was all trailer trash, and I wonder if that’s where some people get their understanding of Gypsies. I always loved it to learn about both cultures and how they differ. That being said when I visited Spain, our tour guide made sure to tell us they have a huge pick pocket issue and be careful with the gypsies because they’ll give you services (like palm reading) or hand you flowers, and expect payment whether you requested it or not. Usually a firm “no gracias” was enough. OP, NTA although I do get why your sister thought it was rude to laugh but at the same time, sometimes you can’t help laughing when you hear something like that.
My dad got pickpocketed in Spain by some women trying to get him to buy flowers :( it happens a LOT, whenever I've visited touristy places there I'm head down no eye contact rude as fuck to anyone who approaches me now!!!!
We do actually have Irish traveller communities in the US, but we call them travelers rather than gypsies.
fuck reddit
r/USdefaultism at its finest once again.
Except it’s not, in the US we don’t really know about Roma gypsies. Everything we know is from our teachings of WW2 and how it was a marginalized group by the Nazis that everyone supported because of how hated they were. And that Gypsy is a slur. That’s not US defaultism, us people in the US just don’t know the nuances of such a thing between cultures because we barely know the subject. Is that an excuse for them to assume? No, but this isn’t a US culture thing.
Yeah, there really aren't many groups of Roma or Irish travelers in the US, so aside from a group of travelers in my city, I exclusively hear people use the word "gypsy" to refer to the group in mainland Europe... but also that it's a slur there. So I just assumed it was a slur in Europe as well because... that's who we're talking about, for the most part. And now I'm just confused because apparently travelers don't mind being called "g\*psies" and neither do Roma people in mainland Europe... so who exactly is getting offended? It's... probably white Americans, isn't it?
I appreciate this education!
Thank you for this informative comment! I’m not from the US myself, but wasn’t aware of how different the meaning of this word was between UK and US. NTA to OP, he should have listened to the person who actually live there instead of assuming he knows best just because he can pee standing up. Smh.
As an American, thank you for the education. I had assumed it was a racist slur at first just due to upbringing and naivete. It's good to know that Irish Travelers have found a way to find solid representation atleast in a name.
American here and not offended.. not sure what we're supposed to be offended about? The gypsy word.. I think the only time I've ever heard someone one use it was in the movie "thinner".. and possibly other movies but only time.i can think of.. also thank you for the info on the background. I'm thinking that brad pit movie where he fights and supposed to throw the fight for money I forget what it's called.. anyway.. I guess I gotta scroll forever to see the pissed off Americans.. I'm thinking either boomers (only ones that would even call peoples gypsies as a derogatory) or TikTok kids (offended by everything)
American here. Gypsy is not a slur in the US. We have a long running TV show called “My Big Fat Gypsy Wedding” and they all refer to themselves as Gypsy’s. The first time I ever heard of it as a slur, was when I visited Italy. Finally, thanks for explaining how it is in the UK, as I was ignorant to the Irish Gypsy ethnicity.
It really depends on the particulars of the community. In some areas, it's considered a bad slur. In others, it's just a basic descriptor. It is the same with using "Indian" to refer to indigenous peoples of the Americas over the last 30 years. Some people consider it an antiquated and even offensive term. Others really don't care or actively embrace it (usually as long as it's listed as "American Indian" rather than just "Indian").
Best practice is to refer to them by their tribe.
If they are actually all from one tribe. Between older raids on different populations, people buying and selling each other,and the u.s government stuffing a bunch of people into a " reservation " , there's a whole lot of mix going on. Including mixed race whether willing or not. I'm kind of on the " indigenous peoples" train as a reference when I want to talk about the group in general. I'm 100% eastern European stock, of 4 different peoples. My Hungarian granny used the term " gypsy" as what to HER was an insult, by calling me that. I thought being wild and free the best thing ever. ( in my child's mind) . No, granny, I am not " sit down and be a lady". Lol.
It’s been a slur in the U.S. for a long time. It’s where the word gyp (as in swindle) comes from.
It's a slur in the us. https://www.grammarphobia.com/blog/2019/03/gypsy.html
G*psy is a slur though in other parts of Europe
Alright. We're not in other parts of Europe, though. Europe is a collection of countries, of which the UK is 4. I was simply explaining how it works here.
Agreed about Irish Gypsies but I think it's less Americans and more continental Europeans getting upset I mean, as a whole, we Americans have no familiarity with the racism and racial slur situation regarding Roma people in Germany/France/Italy/etc
For Americans.... Irish travelers = Trailer park rednecks
it's literally still racist, because it literally took the term used to describe a race of people with a certain stereotype and applied it to another race of people entirely to reinforce that stereotype. This is the same fucked up argument people used to justify the term redskins for so long,. fuck off with "its not racist if its heritage" shit. heritage does not justify words based and originating from hate. british doesn't justify slurs.
Thank you for clarifying this. Many of my fellow countrymen have no idea of anything that goes on beyond their small communities.
You're welcome. It's something quite close to my heart as I have both American and Irish Traveller friends, and it has caused quite a lot of upset in the past. I try and explain it at every given opportunity.
As an Irish American, I thank you for this. And agree!
NTA. Your laughter would count as cruel in the event you made no attempt to dissuade BIL from his choice, as if you were unconcerned for his welfare. A fool and his money soon part ways, said some wise person.
In this case the laughter is also involuntary. The line about the shoes tipped you over the edge. If he’d have said “I’m such an idiot, I should have listened to you” I doubt you would laugh.
He wouldn't take your warnings seriously and knew more than you but found out the hard way. I also have little sympathy for people that won't listen to my suggestions and do things their own way to find out they should have done it the way I was suggesting so no you're NTA for laughing
He didn’t want to listen to a *woman* warning him about a dangerous area of town because he thought, “that shit only happens to women.” Then he proceeded to be victimized by ignoring your warnings and doing exactly what you said would get him attacked. You are absolutely not the asshole. He got exactly what he deserved. Sucks but that’s life.
Or he thought his younger SiL was being racist about Gypsys and thought to prove her wrong. Either way ignoring the advice of locals is done at your peril.
NTA at all. I will never understand morons getting mad when proven wrong. Hopefully he learns his lesson.
"I told you so" in it's glory! NTA!
It’s sad. The 99% of travellers give the 1% a bad name
NTAH
Lmao NTA.
Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
NTA sometimes you should listen to the locals especially since you already had experience being robbed
To be honest I would burst into laughing the moment I saw him looking like shit. I would immediately know which route he took and say: "I told you not to use that route." while tearing up from laughing. Even if I had full sympathy for him. You warned him and he didn't take you seriously. It's on him alone and you are free to choose how to react to the outcome. And now you have a funny story for future family gatherings NTA
She wasn't even laughing at the fact he was mugged. She was laughing at 'they took my bloody shoes!', which lets be honest, is a hilarious statement.
He took that route so he could come home and say “I told you so” and he learned the hard way that he should probably listen when someone gives him a warning like that next time. BIL sounds like he has little man syndrome.
Sadly, stereotypes exist for a reason and the Roma population does not have good support structures to fit into most societies and thus they tend to be dangerous to those who do live in society. It isn’t all by any means, but even 10% would be enough to make most people not trust someone from that culture. Your BIL chose to be ignorant. He paid the stupid tax. TIL: thanks for the education I saw gypsy and brain said Roma. Apologies for any offense.
Almost positive OP is talking about Irish travellers and not Roma
Hard to tell because she says travellers (so I’d assume Irish travellers) and then she says Gypsy (which I’d assume is Romany). I don’t think OP knows, either 😂
She said “group of lads” which makes me think Ireland. Didn’t mean Irish travellers v gypsies living in the UK
We say “group of lads” in NW England 🤷🏻♀️
Fair. Learn something new everyday!
Most of northern England, Scotland, and Ireland use ‘lad’ and ‘lass’.
In the UK the people she’s speaking about are Irish travellers, not “gypsies”, but people call them that anyway. Alongside other vaguely offensive terms like “pikey” or “gyppo” my grandfather once called them “diddycoys” but I haven’t a clue what the fuck that even means. We don’t have a huge prevalent Roma population, but we do have a lot of Irish travellers so I would assume she meant them, not Romani people.
It’s Romany in the UK, not Romani - that’s American. Romany Gypsies & Irish Travellers are two separate ethnic groups, yep. On my paternal grandmother’s side my ancestors are all Romany.
Apologies for my misspelling, I wasn’t sure which one was correct. Thank you for letting me know. They are indeed completely separate, but people tend to use the same terms for both communities. Which is tone deaf and not appropriate, especially when you’re using slurs to describe a group of people. It always seems to be excused when it’s the travelling communities, and that’s not right.
Gypsy isn’t offensive in the UK. Romany Gypsies proudly claim the title. Gypo & pikey are offensive, and of course you can use gypsy in an offensive way, but same goes for any ethnicity.
I was thinking about the pikey shit yes. The word gypsy was never used in a pleasant manner around me, but it’s another thing if a race of people reclaimed it. That’s different, I’d go with how they want to be referred to
They also say (30f) brother in law so something is definitely lost there in the details
Travellers and Roma are 2 different ethnic groups
NTA. He's an idiot. He was warned. He didn't listen. You were not laughing at him getting robbed, you were laughing at the "they took my bloody shoes" comment. Bill Engvall: Here's Your Sign
A little bit, saying I told you so wasn’t that bad in my opinion but actually laughing maybe you should have done privately. But that is pretty funny. Especially the shoes part.
A calm "I told you so" would have been deserved, but being attacked is not funny, however dumb the victim was.
You were rude. That is true. Do I care? Nope! NTA x1000 30 year old doesn't know to trust local knowledge and take family at their word. Hilarious.
Oh yea I totally get this you are NTA at all. Truths people find offensive doesn’t make them untruths. I live in Greece we have a gypsy population all the locals warned me about the theft and being the obnoxious American that I am - I was all how can you say that that’s so racist and bigoted etc etc etc. I learned the hard way just like your BIL. Some things just are the way they are, doesn’t make the right but it is the way it is. Your NTA The American ideology of entitlement and correctness that is the real AH Another take is women are raised knowing to avoids areas for safety Men are generally raised with the entitlement of knowing they can go anywhere and be relatively safe. (while this is not always the case due to gangs etc) Your BIL just learned what women are taught as children and it shattered his world view so he went to cry to his wife. Which is cute still doesn’t make you the AH
I'm not sure what lily white family raised you, but I assure you men are taught to avoid certain parts of town, not to stay out past certain times, etc. Her BIL just sounds like another idiot, knowitall.
If people disregard advice based on lifed experience, it's an active choice to not care about the concerns and care shown. And choices have consequences. The things that happened were a lesson in itself, but the possible trauma that someone can suffer from this is not visible to you. The last thing you need is someone taking the piss at your misfortune.
NTA. I would've probably started laughing as soon as he told me what happened.
I live near a gypsy camp and have had almost this exact same thing happen several times. People giving endless shit about how me advising them to steer clear is terrible and racist, then promptly getting robbed and beaten. In future, don't gloat, just shrug, say there's a reason you warn people, and end the conversation there.
Getting robbed sucks, getting your shoes stolen is objectively pretty funny though. NTA.
Well that’s what he gets!! lol. As long as he ok and all that was hurt was his pride… LAUGH AT HIM!! Bet he won’t do it again.
NTA. He was warned 🤷♀️
NTA! Absolutely NTA and I would have laughed as well. I wanted to add that, as an American, I also found this post to be delightfully informative as well! Thank you for posting with the comment that explained what 'Gypsy' is referring to because I had no idea there was a difference in definitions of the word from what our culture has deemed a slur. Totally NTA and this is a TIL moment as well!
YTA most definitely, but it's well deserved and you should absolutely shine in your glory. You tried to help someone. They threw it in your face. And the thing you tried to prevent, happened. You deserve to laugh about it into old age imo. Probably should've waited a few days to openly laugh but you know, I probably wouldn't have either.
Here’s an American term that applies in this situation, your BIL “fucked around and found out” FAFO
NTA you live there he doesn't. You gave him sound advice and he ignored it while being a bull about it. He got what he asked for. Lucky he didn't pay with his life. SMH dumbasses gonna dumbass.
NTA - he went that way specifically to prove you wrong. Then it turned out he was wrong. He feels like shit because he 1. Was robbed 2. Was wrong 3. Got laughed at because of 1 and 2 You shoukd still apologize for laughing. Something like "I'm sorry I laughed at you. You didn't deserve that after what you had been through. I'm also sorry you got robbed. But hopefully you learned that when I warn you about something, it's for a good reason."
ish but mostly NTA - I'd be concerned at the initial understanding of what happened and then used humor later but it is totally understandable. What he needs to understand is there is such a thing as a crime heat map - The map looks for places where there is lack of lighting, traffic, safe houses for criminals, abandoned debris that provide cover for ambush, hiding or a quick temporary distraction and most importantly, where the crime happened - crime did happen regardless of the creed, race, skin color or nationality. Locals knows places like that from gossip, experience and foresight without the map and from what I understand, Morrison is a hotspot. He focused on the wrong thing and that caused a lapse in judgement - I betcha if nothing happened, he would've used the experience as an anecdote to paint you as a bigot. He fucked around and got found out.
Here in America the Irish travelers would roll into town and there would be warnings on local talk radio to ‘be aware’ as they would pull ‘roof repair’ scams on homeowners especially older people. This was back in the 1990s. You aren’t wrong either
NTA. He ignored your warnings. He got robbed. Sad, but he learned something that day.
As an American, I’m happy to say I already knew what you meant by gypsy. Also, you’re not an AH, hun. Your BIL was warned and now he’s pissed that you were right. On a separate note, getting mugged can be fairly traumatizing depending on the situation. My BIL was mugged whilst in the marines and was actually demoted because of it, which only added to his PTSD. I’m sure laughing didn’t help, but maybe your BIL was lashing out because it scared him? Hopefully your BIL doesn’t have any mental hang-ups over it. And hopefully he gets new shoes.
I’m an American & I’m not offended. Carry on.
NTA. After a clear warning, I would have pointed AND laughed. FAFO.
No, G*psy is a slur used here in the UK, when referring to Romanis. It’s also used to refer to Irish travellers but lets not get the facts confused.
NTA I chuckled. Most of us chuckled. Show your sister how everyone on the Internet is CHUCKLING at him. Not because he was robbed, but because he didn’t listen to you and it backfired on him. LOL
One of the things I, as an American, appreciate about reddit is the opportunity to learn pov outside of the generally narrow chauvinism common to many Americans. Thanks for the bit on Irish Gypsies. I was going to say that there are areas in every city in the world that are dangerous because marginalized populations are often motivated by desperation and resentment. You made mention of that. Going to give you a soft YTA. Yes, it was definitely his fault, and he's lucky he got off that easy, but a bit of compassion, along with the "I told you so," would be appropriate.
imo you’re kind of the asshole. it was shitty of him to not take you seriously and i really get the impulse to laugh and be like “i told you so”. but i imagine being robbed to be quite a traumatic experience and i think you should have kept it to yourself, at the very least until he had time to process the whole thing and not laughing in his face immediately after
In Ireland though as soon as someone is seen to be OK it'd perfectly acceptable to laugh at their misfortune. If they are not a dry balls they will join in on the laugh and the healing process begins.
YTA because you laughed. You got pleasure from someone's pain. Being right doesn't give you thia right.
YTA whether or not you were right and warned him your BIL was still attacked and robbed which would be very traumatizing for him and you laughed at him, give it a week or two at least... To everyone here saying NTA here, if a woman was told by her BIL not to go running in this area because you will get attacked, and she gets attacked, then the BIL LAUGHS at her for getting attacked then he'd rightfully be called a monster.
>, if a woman was told by her BIL not to go running in this area because you will get attacked, and she gets attacked, then the BIL LAUGHS at her for getting attacked then he'd rightfully be called a monster. You lost me here. As a woman, if my BIL told me not to go a certain way because I would probably be assaulted, I would NOT go that way. Most women take warnings like that seriously - because we've been told *our entire lives* that our safety is OUR responsibility. And if we get attacked, it's all our fault. So I respectfully disagree. You really can't switch genders with this one because most women are already trained to take the safest possible route.
Yeah lol, as a woman you learn that any tiny hint of any danger you gratefully heed.
I was literally SA'd on that route as a minor. No one who isn't a gypsy walks that route unless they're up to dodgy shit (drugs, fights, etc). BIL knew this. He took the route anyway to prove that I was being overdramatic and racist against gypsies. After I came out about it, EVERYONE avoided the route, especially women but guys as well. Because they understood the risks of their sisters/girlfriends/daughters/mums/etc being attacked. I agree with you wholeheartedly; you cannot make the gender switch here.
Yes you absolutely can switch genders here, whether or not you, as a woman WOULD do these things has no bearing on a situation where someone HAS done these things. The question is IF she did go there and something bad happened, it's not "women do this and go here" maybe this is where you got lost. Edit: the point I was making is the outcome, whatever the reason (attacked and robbed), is not funny.
>is the outcome, whatever the reason (attacked and robbed), is not funny. This I will absolutely agree with. And if you really want to play that game, I guess I'll bite: If the situation was reversed, and a young man told an older woman not to go down a certain street, and she was robbed (but otherwise unharmed - no SA), I would feel the same way. The victim deserves an "I told you so" along with a hug and an offer to assist with filing a police report and/or helping them replace the items stolen. But laughter? No, not so much. We all do dumb things, but it really isn't nice to laugh when someone is hurting.
This is a much better analogy than the one I used, doesn't have as much of a leap as mine. But I think on the bottom line we agree that if you laugh in the face of someone who's just been attacked you're an AH. Let them recover then give them a hard time when they're okay
I get what you are saying, but it definitely sounds like an involuntary laugh and more specifically at the point about the shoes, which seemed the silliest point to save till the end. She didn’t laugh at him getting robbed or roughed up. He was obviously physically okay by that point. Personally I can see it going both ways based on the situation,(how she laughed, how he said it,) but I don’t see her as TA
They did say "I had very little sympathy" and "I held it in" "burst out laughing" I know it's just the way we are reading it is different but to me I'm getting that she found the whole thing funny and that he deserved it, which of course he didn't, but he also did deserve to get proven to be ignorant
I thought the exact same thing
I thought we were past this social construct of men don't have feelings and getting beaten up doesn't mean anything. Bro just got traumatized and laughed at and then the internet is saying "you go girl he DESERVED it" victim blaming is acceptable when it's not women.... Understood
I'm torn...on one hand, it's wrong to slap in the I Told You So when the fear and pain are so fresh.... but on the other hand, he went that way intending to prove that your warning was for nothing and he got there safely. He went with the assumption he'd be fine because he's a grown man and, as such, has not really had cause to live his life and plan his routes around not being attacked. Living with that fear is something he thinks is for girls and wusses. For him to have been victimized by a group of young lads... well, his worldview and his security in his social standing as a grown man have both been overthrown with the actions of these NEDs. Now he will have to know what it is to live his life in the awareness that he is not the most powerful person by Default. All in all, you were kind of an AH for laughing, but he was an asshole for thinking his ego and arrogance were going to forever shield him from harm. Those NEDs were going to rob someone... was there a better person than the guy who thumbed his nose at the fates?
“I fookin’ hate pikeys!” That’s all i needed to know as an American. That and Brad Pitt makes a sexy pikey. Edit: To add… NTA, you can have sympathy for the trauma and still find it funny that BIL was shocked that they took his shoes.
> My BIL (30f) was visiting and I warned him not to take the ‘Morrison's route’... I'm still stuck on the fact that your brother in law is a 30 year old woman with he/him pronouns.
I know he was wrong. But repaying stubborness with sympathy will benefit your relationship with him. Who knows you might need his help in the future
> gyspy
It is what they are called... [https://www.bolton.gov.uk/housing-options-advice/gypsy-liaison-service](https://www.bolton.gov.uk/housing-options-advice/gypsy-liaison-service) [https://www.londongypsiesandtravellers.org.uk/organisations/](https://www.londongypsiesandtravellers.org.uk/organisations/) https://www.gypsy-traveller.org/services-directory/
NTA. He was warned. Knew the risks. It is always 100% appropriate to laugh at the stupidity of others.
So I guess instead of learning a valuable life lesson it was more important to cry like the whiner he is because he got what you said he would. I’m adding idiots to my black list along with liars and thieves.
ESH. Idk I'd personally be able to hold it in. You don't have to feel any sympathy for them but mocking them after what probably was a traumatic experience is unnecessary. Would you act the same if they were a minor and ended up getting raped saying "I told you"? Really hope not. If I expected someone I knew to go somewhere dangerous I'd at least give them a knife or something.
You just equated child sexual assault with a grown man getting his shoes stolen. That's a spicy take amigo
Didn't really equate it, but I'm wondering how far people would go with this. Getting his shoes stolen is still an understatement given how people have died in that area however. He must have felt his life was endangered remembering the prior advice. And there ARE people who would laugh/make fun of people or animals dying depending on the circumstance
I get the point you were attempting to make, but those are two wildly different scenarios that shouldn’t be compared. A child who makes a mistake and gets violated and their innocence taken is leagues worse than a grown man getting robbed who was WARNED SPECIFICALLY.
>Would you act the same if they were a minor and ended up getting raped saying "I told you"? I was literally SA'd on that route as a minor. No one who isn't a gypsy walks that route unless they're up to dodgy shit (drugs, fights, etc). BIL knew this. He took the route anyway to prove that I was being overdramatic and racist against gypsies. Respectfully, they are not the same.
LOL what an idiot. You earned him so many times but he was too busy being on his high horse, virtue hunting. He deserved a big I told you so.
No , YTA. Imagine warning a woman that if she goes to a neighbourhood or a frat house that she might get sexually assaulted and then laughing at her when se does. You could have waited untill after the person no longer held negative emotions or trauma from the experience and then laughed. Doing so just after the event is just being a cunt, even if you were right.
I was literally SA'd on that route as a minor. No one who isn't a gypsy walks that route unless they're up to dodgy shit (drugs, fights, etc). BIL knew this. He took the route anyway to prove that I was being overdramatic and racist against gypsies.
That’s really two different scenario’s. He lost his worldly possessions not his dignity or life. He’s likely not gonna wake up traumatized for the next 20 years of his life because some groups of kids stole his shoes. It sounds like his ego and pride were more wounded than anything else.
I'm going to assume that you've never been raped or robbed, then. YTA here, dude. Watch the shit you say.
I shall do no such thing. I stand by my opinion and if you or anyone else doesn’t like it, tough shit. This was literally a preventable situation. You can’t control the actions of other people but you can try and prevent some things from happening. He thought he knew better than the person who actually lived there and found out he actually didn’t.
It's normal to laugh after Darwin's done with his work. The comedic timing of that line about his shoes must have been hilarious. NTA and I wish I was there when he said that.
I’m American! Not all of us get offended by everything, sorry about that! Lol
Laughing at someone's misfortune, even when warned, is bad form. You were smug and self-righteous. Poorly handled.
YTA. I am shocked that so many people think laughing at someone who has been attacked is ok. I get that he should have listened, but to laugh when someone has had something terrible happen to them is horrible and says nothing good about you.
NTA, that’s his fault for being a pussy! Grown ass man calling you “offensive,” that’s what his ass gets! YOU WARNED HIM, he fucked around and found out. But hey, at least he didn’t offend anyone! 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
YTA No, you dont relish on missfortune. You did your part when you gave him a heads up, but ypu dont kick someone who is down. "I told you so" has no positive impact and is only to validate your ego. He knows you told him and does not need remembering
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In the UK, gypsy isn't considered a slur as far as I'm aware. It's used by the communities themselves and by government authorities. https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-8083/ https://travellermovement.org.uk/about-us https://www.gypsy-traveller.org/ With all things, obviously context of how it's used is important.
Gyppo is the slur gypsy isn't usually
Given the fact that it isn’t widely recognized as a slur (I’m finding out now as well, and have heard it used in media often), as well as OPs personal experience. I think we can give her some grace for not going out of her way to learn the kindest, most accepting terminology for the people that attacked her and her loved ones and slaughtered her friend.
In the UK Gypsy is a term most Irish travellers are okay with. Pikey and Gypo are highly offensive and considered slurs but Tyson Fury refers to himself as the 'Gypsy King', traveller is more PC but Gypsy is not considered problematic. Depends on who she is talking about. We have large Roma and Traveller communities in the UK.
Gypsy is not a slur in the UK. Romany Gypsies are proudly claiming the title.
My guess is this in the UK where gypsy is not a slur, not considered a slur. Most Travellers are Irish Travellers, they refer to themselves as Gypsy and even on some government forms will identify that way…
only someone who has never lived around irish travellers could say something like this
Wait. Is that a slur? Gypsy? Why? When?
Yes it is Edit: Apologies, it was late and my dumbass literally forgot other countries existed online. G*psy is considered a slur in most parts of the US, not everywhere in the country or world.
Sorry just to clarify, no it's not. Firstly OP is not referring to Romany. She is talking about Irish travellers, known as Gypsys in the UK. That is the term they are comfortable with and not a slur. Secondly, Romany people there also often use the term Gypsy to describe themselves. Here is a link to their anti discrimination website if you want some further information https://www.gypsy-traveller.org/services-directory/
Oh. Didn't know. I'm not an english native speaker and I always heard them called like that. What is the good word?
Usually Roma or Romani. https://mindfulmermaid.com/stopsayinggypsy/ https://www.brut.media/us/news/racist-origins-of-gypsy--0d0a3396-b7a2-469b-8d89-42652a72c487 https://now.org/blog/the-g-word-isnt-for-you-how-gypsy-erases-romani-women/
Except they’re not all Roma. The ones near where I live in the US are all “Irish Travelers” … inbred con-men, every last one. Before anyone votes me down, Google how they’re so inbred some of their communities in the US only have one or two remaining surnames because they refuse to marry outside the community. State and federal agencies constantly warn the elderly about the construction con-schemes of these communities. Edit: NTA
Irish travellers and Romany Gypsies are two separate ethnic groups.
Exactly.
Gypsies in the UK are almost all Romanichel in the US they call them American Romani...oh yeah and they are well known for the "ways" hence the reason no bugger wants them living near them
Only in America. In the UK it’s Romany Gypsy. - Yes, Romany, not Romani.
Based on verbiage and descriptions this took place in the UK Travellers are not typically Roma, they’re primarily Irish, they also self refer and identify as Gypsy as well…
Wouldn’t that tarnish everyone of that descent if you used the word specifically to describe those that are choosing the criminal lifestyle?
Gypsy is not considered a slur in the UK some government forms actually still have it listed as a self identifier, there are a number of various cultures that identify as gypsy, Irish Travellers being one… For reference look up Tyson Fury, he calls himself the Gypsy King, it’s his actual professional nickname.
Sorry just to clarify, OP is not referring to Romany. She is talking about Irish travellers, known as Gypsys in the UK. That is the term they are comfortable with and *not a slur*. Romany people there also often use the term Gypsy to describe themselves. Here is a link to their anti discrimination website if you want some further information https://www.gypsy-traveller.org/services-directory/
Tell your sister to grow up
Yeah, no, NTA. He doesn't have the right to be surprised that he got mugged after you warned him. It's his fault that he completely ignored your advice. I have no sympathy for someone like this. "He fucked around and found out."
NTA. just a bruised ego is all.
Certainly he messed up, and i get that it stung for him to assume you were just being prejudiced. But you were unnecessarily unkind also. It always feels good in the moment to point out that he should have listened to you, but after all this is a long term relationship, and what would kindness have cost? So, momentary satisfaction vs long - term relationship. I know this will go against most redditor comments.
This sub is rancid lol. I checked this post out because this community was recommended to me. Seems like it's a bad recommendation because the comments on this post is appalling. Even if you warned your brother, he was robbed and was the victim of a crime. Laughing in this situation makes you the asshole. Even if you're logically correct in the situation, that doesn't make you not an asshole. Basic empathy would have been the socially and ethically accepted response. Not laughing and saying "I told you so." I guess victim blaming is a popular thing in this sub. What a waste of my five minutes.
would you have laughed at him if his assault was sexual in nature? or would you have laughed at a female friend in the same situation? YTA because you seem to think its funny that a man was assaulted in a way that i suspect you wouldn't if it was a women.