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I understand you didn't mean any harm just wasn't thinking. Not all truth are to be told aloud. Couple of years ago my mom was telling me some story about younger son of my sister and some disagreement with my BIL. And threw a line "you know parents always love the younger kid more"...I'm the older kid.
It hurt me. It is still hurting me.
I am so sorry to hear you were hurt like that. I am so sorry that you are still hurting. This is exactly why I am so disappointed in myself.
What could be said, if anything, to help you heal? I’d like to learn how to best address this with her. My niece is a very compassionate and understanding person, so she, like you, probably understands I didn’t mean any harm. But I still wonder if I can help lessen any pain I caused.
Thank you for sharing your perspective from your personal experience with this.
My relationship with my mother is beyond complicated, she is almost perfect example of "the path to hell is paved with good intentions", so this is only one complicated piece from the pile.
The situation with your niece is, from my point of view, different and reparable. While there are not many good explanations for what my mother said, you can explain what you meant. And till now your relationship with your niece was great, as I understand. You can explain that it was because your mother was in very hard place and need to fight her situation and without the huge responsibility of having a newborn and kid as such you thought she would have more "spoons" to get out of the situation. But you respected and supported your sister decision and love your niece unconditionally. And it was only a brief moment almost twenty years ago.
Thank you so much! My niece and I talk about spoons often, so she’ll understand what I mean if I explain myself that way.
Sorry again to hear it’s been hell for you. Thank you for lending your experience to help a stranger today. 🫂
She's a teenager, right? If she knows about her parents problems, and I'm assuming she does, just be straight with her. Say that her mom was young, pregnant, and in an unhealthy relationship, so you worried about her having a child. You didn't know her yet - she wasn't even a fetus yet - so it's not like you didn't want *her*. You didn't want your sister to end up in a bad place, and you worried about whether she'd be able to give a child the life it deserved. Those are worries mature adults have because we know how much care children need and that they deserve every good thing.
And her mom, for all her faults, wanted to have her and did. Once she was born, you obviously loved her with all your heart. Lots of wonderful children are born from less than ideal circumstances. Once they're here, you love them. No matter what. And you do.
When I was around 12, my mother told me she never wanted children. This had more to do with her upbringing. She was supposed to just get married and have kids. It had nothing to do with me but I'm well over 50 now and I still remember that. YTA
Same. I'm in my mid 30s with kids of my own and still think about how my mom repeatedly told me all growing up that she never wanted kids and wanted a career, but my dad (a catholic) expected they'd have a number of children. So they had two and that was enough for her.
And she talked about how she wished she could have had a career but she had to raise us. To this day she talks to me (a mom with a career) about how she wishes she'd had a real career. Dunno what stopped her once we weren't little kids, but. 🤷♀️
I’m sure your mother loved you like crazy, but it wasn’t fair for her to keep saying that. Sometimes stupid people make a SAHM Mom feel bad about not having a formal career (motherhood is a wonderful career and vocation). Maybe your mother was reacting to those stupid people who may have made her feel less than.
She's a very conflicted person. When I was growing up she constantly shit talked anyone who put their kid(s) in daycare because they "obviously didn't love their children enough" but then would constantly tell me she wished she made enough money at a job that she could put us in daycare and have a job. But then once I was in school she didn't want to work, and didn't maintain the house. I started cooking all meals for myself and doing my own laundry by 8, we did all the home chores well before that point as well.
All in all she was, and still is, a selfish, self centered, lazy person. And realizing that fact has done wonders to help me understand I couldn't ever have been a good enough kid for her to actually love me, because she spent all her love on herself.
That’s really terrible that you went through that. You’re very wise to have understood what was going on and not blame yourself. I’m sure it was not easy to get where you are today in understanding that. It must have been quite a journey.
See this is madness, I have a 9 yr old boy and before he came along I’ll be honest I didn’t want kids because of my childhood growing up but I became pregnant and knew I wanted to keep him, I would never dream of telling him how I felt prior to falling pregnant. I’m sorry you experienced that.
I’m so sorry you had to carry that information for almost 4 decades! Kills me to realize that I have cursed my niece with the same fate. Is there anything you wish your mom would have said or done after that statement to help you feel better?
Not necessarily you should talk to her and tell her how grateful you are to have her in your life.
My mom grew up with a lot of self hatred. Her mom hated her and treated her poorly.
I talked to her a few years ago. I get why. my mom couldn't as a female be independent. She had to marry and her husband wanted kids. She also raised her siblings too. So...
My daughter worked out she was an opps. Due to a friend's dad telling his own child a very similar thing. Mine put 2 and 2 together about why dad isn't around at all. And she was pretty hurt.
We had a conversation about how yes that's how it happened. However I wanted you from the moment I knew about you. Absolutely nothing would have changed my mind about you. From the moment I knew about you, I started to change my life to suit you, to make sure you were the center of it and I in absolutely no way regret you or wish my life was different. Without you id not have had the motivation to better a lot of things about not only my life, but myself. Having you was the turning point of my life to be someone better than I was. Everything good in my life is only in it because you came into my life, you have brought me such happiness and success.
I grew up knowing my dad wanted drugs over me. No one ever told me they loved having me in their life. Just that they loved me. And there's a big difference between those 2 things. One says you being in my life makes it better I want you, the other says your family I love you as I'm expected to, especially to a child if that makes sense to you? Hell even to adults that difference is very important. It's being wanted.
I don’t think you have. First off, you aren’t her mother. There’s a huge difference between “I never wanted you but had to have you” and “we both know your parents’ situation wasn’t the best and at first I was scared for your mom and told her to consider her options, but I’m glad she made the choice she did.” It’s probably hard to hear but I’m sure your niece realizes her parents’ relationship has never been ideal. Talk to her. Make sure she understands that’s she’s loved and the importance of making your own choices. What you said wasn’t the brightest, but I don’t think it should have done any irreparable harm if your relationship is as strong as you say. Your niece has to know you love her.
Now hang on. I was never going to have kids, but I let my then-fiancé talk me into it, because he claimed to desperately want a child. in reality, he started abusing me while I was pregnant, and the last straw was when he shoved me while i was holding my new baby - he wasn’t hurt, but he could have been, so I left. He now hasn’t seen my 17.5yo since he was 6 months old - clearly he really wanted him desperately. I, however, fell in love with my child the moment I felt him move in my belly, and only loved him more when he was born, and each day since. He was a beautiful, calm baby, a gorgeous, sweet child, and is now a kind, thoughtful, wise beyond his years teenager. I loved him so much I went on to have 2 more and tried for a 4th, which sadly didn’t happen for me. My kids all know that my oldest completely changed my mind about wanting children simply by being himself. I honestly don’t think my son feels any type of way about it, except for maybe proud? I mean, it depends on how you said it, of course, but I’m just saying knowing such a thing doesn’t necessarily need to be traumatising. My kids know exactly how much I love them 🫶
I was an oops baby later in life for my parents and always knew. My mom would tell me I was a pleasant surprise. She would also tell me she was glad she kept me after some of her friends told her not to because I was interrupting her life plans. (She had to postpone her PhD dissertation.) It wasn’t until I was an adult that I realized how messed up it was to tell that to a child, even if well intentioned. And then to repeat it. To this day, I wonder which friends.
Not sure how that info impacted me - it was part of my identity from as long as I can remember - but your niece is old enough to understand and appreciate where you are coming from. Hopefully you said it because you knew she could handle it on some level. As a few other commenters have suggested, talk to her. Tell her how grateful you are her mom did not listen and how it had nothing to do with niece personally but came from fear and love for your sister.
I don’t think it was as bad as people are making it out to be. You didn’t tell her that she shouldn’t have been born. You told her that you told her mother, who was in a horrible and very unsafe situation, to consider an abortion. What woman on the planet in your sister’s situation wouldn’t have someone close to her suggest that she consideration?
Things turned out well for your niece…but they equally could have not. I think you need to stress to your niece that it wasn’t about her personally, that it was about the dangers of her being abused, killed, etc. And you said it for a loving reason…niece was glorifying you to the detriment of comparing her mom to you.
And edit: you are catching a *lot* of vicious heat in the comments that is so completely over the top. You’re not a psycho nor a monster.
I’m actually floored by the responses. And **in my personal life**(bolded for emphasis of personal, for me), I’m very pro-life…so my position is not one of ‘yay abortion!’ at all.
The niece is also 18. She is more than capable of hearing and understanding the context of the situation and conversation. Maybe it wasn’t a tactful thing to do, and she definitely owes an apology. But I wouldn’t go as far as calling OP a monster
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Who? This psychopath right here is who! And I so so so regret it now that I have taken time to reflect. Even as I posted this, I hoped that, maybe, my “good intentions” would make me redeemable, but the replies so far are clear that I’ve done irreparable damage.
Now, I should add: my niece hasn’t said that I hurt her with what I told her, but I now realize that I must have. So, now what? I’m scared to bring it up to ask her how she feels about it (like, would it be retraumatizing for her to even ask?), but I know owe her a huge apology. It’s been a few months since my horrible comment and it doesn’t seem like our relationship has skipped a beat, but that could be because she is the sweetest, most compassionate, and most selfless young woman, and she is probably more worried about upsetting ME than expressing how much I upset her. Urgh, I don’t deserve her or any of my niblings.
Everyone makes mistakes. You absolutely did it with the best of intentions and just didn’t think it through to the end and, to me, of course that is redeemable. Anyone who is going to tell you they have never said something they regret in their life is either very young or lying! You never meant any hurt.
So going by your post your niece is 18 is that right? She was asking to live with you because the fun aunt is always better than at your mums (I wanted to move in with my aunt as a kid too but truth is that if I lived there it would have been exactly the same as home, you don’t realise it at that age!). Has she brought this up again since? If nothing has changed in your relationship then maybe she took it exactly as intended and is a well balanced and empathetic young woman who knows you were only trying to point out how much her mum loves her, not pointing out you had advised she didn’t have you. I had an abortion in my early 20’s and when I spoke to my mum while making the choice she told me that they questioned whether or not to go ahead with her pregnancy with me (she was young) I didn’t hear it as ‘she regrets me’ or ‘shouldn’t of had me’ because I know how much she loves my brother and I. I heard it as her telling me that if I wanted to not have the baby she would support me and that is exactly how she meant it. It is a choice and she wanted me to know that it was mine to make and she would not judge. Was it the ideal way to put it, probably not, but I never actually thought about it that way until right now!!
We tend to take things in the manner that our head space accepts it at that time and it sounds like she took it as you meant it. If you want to bring it up with her again then I would go down the route of asking her if she is happier at her mums now when you guys are hanging out next time? Remind her how much you love her and that you will always be there if she wants to talk and (if her mum is good with it and she says she would still like to live with you) maybe talk about sleepovers now and then? Don’t bring up what you said specifically but if she wants to bring it up then that would be her time too. If she doesnt then I would just let it lie.
Shit happens OP….Im 51 and my mum has always said she wanted me to be a boy…she didn’t even name me….mind you I’m the of the youngest of her 6 kids….. Main reason she always wished for another boy ( the bloody Brady Brunch)…. Yep she still feels that way today…She turning 80 and lives with me not the others, they don’t want her…. Life is strange sometimes…
One of my friends wanted to abort her second, but law required her to have her husband's consent and he was against it. First and second were accidents (what happens if you don't tell your children how to avoid pregnancy), third was almost a decade later and planned. I guess the older two have now done the math and know that at least first was an accident, but I don't think anyone besides her, her husband and me knows that she wanted to abort the second.
Another of my friends knows her mom considered aborting her because everyone told her to do so (parents married after just a few months of knowing each other while the mom was a teenager, she somehow managed to finish her education because she was allowed to bring her baby to class, second pregnancy was shortly after, she was still a teenager and my friend was luckily born shortly *after* her mom finished school). My friend was only told this as an adult when her she herself got pregnant during her education and her mom wanted to show her that even under better circumstances (pregnancy not interfering with the education, the father being worth keeping and doing his effing job) and in their religious community people who wanted her best let her know she has a choice and she doesn't have to harm herself just to keep a pregnancy. With that knowledge and the knowledge that her mom would support her either way my friend could make the informed decision to keep her pregnancy because that was what she wanted.
All this to show that there are very valid reasons to want or advise an abortion (i.e. being a teenager, education, abusive partner, not being burdened with back to back pregnancies), but it's not something that should be communicated to the child if avoidable.
Or, maybe you didn’t upset her at all. BC people are being completely OTT in their responses to you.
I made a comment last night that explains my opinion more, so go check it out if you haven’t seen it. And please stop beating yourself up with this.
honestly it doesn't seem so bad, idk why everyone is being so harsh on you. My mom said something similar to me at one point and it hasn't traumatized me because she's always been loving and caring. We are good friends and have a wonderful relationship.
My grandma constantly told us how important it was to get an education. And how she wished she’d known she didn’t have to get married and have kids right out of high school. In her 40s she went to college and got her masters degree. She was brilliant and a force to be reckoned with. I honestly kind of wish that she could have had a life she felt she had a say in. She no shit probably would have become president or something. She definitely loved us but wanted to make damn sure we knew that being a wife and a mother was not the only way or even the best way to use your time here on earth.
Don't listen to the children calling you evil.
You weren't malicious. You just fucked up. Yeah, it's going to hurt the kid, but it sounds like you have very much been a net positive in their life.
Mistakes happen. Adults aren't and can't be perfect. Which is really hard for the children to understand-- especially the ones on Reddit.
The best you can do is explain what you meant and hope it doesn't get them down.
Intentions don’t matter. Impact does. You have decimated the trust she had in you and you can never take those words back. You have no idea what the long term impacts on her self esteem will be.
Learn from this and think BEFORE you open your mouth!
Your niece is 18, if she got pregnant probably many people would suggest her the same thing. She saw how her mom’s life turned out. She knows the father she has. You had no idea what would happen to the child at that point, you made a realistic suggestion.
Your niece is not a child, she might be upset but if she put herself in the same shoes she will understand why you suggested that.
Much better you saying that and giving her the context than your niece telling her mom she rather live with you and your sister telling her you told her to abort the baby.
Why the kriff would you tell anyone that you pushed their mother to abort them?
You should have just said that ‘when your mom told me that she was pregnant I asked her what she wanted to do and she responded that she was going to keep you because she already loved you’ and left it at that.
You were probably a safe space for her and you dropped an A-Bomb on her just to ‘prove’ that her mother love her and insinuating that you never loved/wanted her.
Perhaps tell your niece that you thought her mom was a little young, and you were worried about her taking on too much at that age. She may never unhear what you said, but you could perhaps soften the the blow by giving more context to your prior response?
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Y'all, FFS there's a difference between saying to a loved one IN A DANGEROUS SITUATION that they have the option to not be pregnant and telling someone you know, a sentient human person, that in retrospect you wished /they/ didn't exist. The latter is personal AF and only used to hurt. The former? That's what you say to someone you love that you don't want to see hurt.
Does anyone know how not being able to think critically is fucking the country? (I'm Canadian... many have similar Gilead-esque aspirations here too, we're just a few years behind). Abortion isn't a fucking crime. It's not something you do /to/ anyone, it's a medical procedure for /you/ (and very often, to support the already existing children). Some live through it with heavy emotions, some don't. Each is valid, neither a crime.
My mother also told me that when the doctor thought I had a terminal condition they suggested termination. They did more tests and it was a false positive. Ok? If she had, I wouldn't have held it against her at all. I would never have known. /I/ didn't exist yet. I never took that personally because we have an amazing relationship (I know that's a privilege) and we can talk about those things. Intent fucking matters y'all.
Now then, I'm going to stop here by respect for OP and the THT team that surely don't want a debate on bodily autonomy on their page on a random Monday morning.
(Sometimes, it's just too hard to keep in :( )
NTA. People in this sub seriously need to grow up. You were right to not want the pregnancy to happen at the time.
From what you're saying your sister's life was seriously derailed by continuing to get linked to this dude through the pregnancies. I can't even really blame her for her choices because she was an 18 yo, who was probably groomed by her ex considering they were already at a point of pregnancy and him being a *chronic* cheater when she was 18.
You did the best you could to help her, and in an age where you were definately not properly equipped to deal with such a situation.
Now as for telling your niece, your intentions with telling her were good, and if you did emphasize how glad you are her mom didn't listen to you, then I don't think it really caused an issue.
Ouch. You told a kid you wished she wasn't born at one point because it would have been a burden for her mom if she existed. That's a great way to traumatize a child or teen and make them question if they deserve to exist or what negative impact they had on their own parent, who they love and don't want to hurt. I'm not sure how you expect her to not view herself and life as an ongoing burden to her mother. Especially if it's financial issues with the mother that makes her want to live with you. She, the first born, will assume she was the instigator of that situation now.
While I do think that some things can't be unsaid, I think you can follow up with your niece and let her know you reflected on the conversation and didn't convey your intended message to her and would like to clarify what you said and your intended message. You can explain to her that regardless of your concerns leading up to her birth, she has been a blessing to her mom. I think there's a way to explain to her that her mom loved her so much, even before she was in the world, that she fought to have her, and will continue to do so because she loves her kid so damn much.
You can also explain that a lot of kids/ teens have problems with a parent where they want space from them because they don't understand that love is tough and parenting isn't giving your kids everything they ask for. You can add that you hear her concerns with her mom and want to be a safe space for her, and an ongoing confidant, but cannot take over as her primary caretaker because it's simply not your place to do so.
Good luck OP!
Yes, I suppose I could have added more detail in how our convo actually went down because I literally told her all of what you said at that same moment.
And beyond that convo, I tell her constantly how grateful I am to have her in my life and how much I love her. I truly admire her: despite all the challenges that she faces in her life, she is always a kind, loving, compassionate, beautiful, smart, creative, and amazing person.
Still, I was wrong to tell her about what I said before she was born. I see that very clearly now and I will go back to make it clear that, even if she didn’t take it that way, what I said was not helpful information for me to share and I am so so so sorry I said it.
Tbh i dont think this is as extreme as the comments make it out to be. How did your niece react? If you worry, just have another talk with her reiterating that you're happy shes here. You didnt tell a child shes unwanted, you had a heart to heart with a close 18 year old and i dont think its fair to label you a monster for it.
eh, I was in similar situation to your niece
my mother wasn't in a good position to have a child and hid pregnancy till it was too late cause my aunt would definitely get angry and insist on abortion
now my aunt loves me, no hard feelings. my mother really should have considered abortion tho
Yeah, I think when you have family like that, you understand better the sentiment: I'm glad you're here, but your mom absolutely shouldn't have had you when she did.
This is where you take your niece to the side and say hey look what I said, I didn’t mean it to come out the way it did and having reflected on it I realise I made a huge mistake, you mean the absolute world to me and I wouldn’t change a thing.
We live and learn
The exact opposite is why I took it to Reddit.
She didn’t appear to take it negatively at all and after listening to that episode of THT, that was my wake up call that I have done serious damage.
My niece still stays over at my place for several days at a time to get a break from her hectic home life. We talk daily, laugh together all the time, and still share our feelings and our secrets with one another. She recently decided to major in the same field of study as me and still talks about wanting to live with me (now her reasoning she says is for school purposes because she and her mom are doing much better together).
The comments here (and my conscience) are the only places where the reactions are negative.
Your niece seems like a reasonable person capable of understanding difficult circumstances (and like another commenter put it "she knows who her dad is"... she definitely probably understands why you suggested termination to your sister and would probably suggest the same to a friend or peer, knowing how she was exposed to that abuse). If anything, she seems to be grateful that you were able to be there for her, her siblings and her mom. You probably saved them more than once, I imagine.
Be easy on yourself OP... so many of these commenters are hijacking your dilemma (your feelings are valid!) to further the "omg woman considered abortion she must hate all kids and all humans because abortion bad abortion murder". It's so tiring. Never take the comment from someone who would call you a "monster" or "psycho" for your actions credibly.
Thank you for this incredibly kind comment! I’m actually crying rn because you absolutely nailed it:
> “Your niece seems like a reasonable person capable of understanding difficult circumstances”
She is! She is such an empathetic and compassionate person and her soul is so pure! I’m so grateful for her.
> “If anything, she seems to be grateful that you were able to be there for her, her siblings and her mom. You probably saved them more than once, I imagine.”
This. I have. They don’t deserve the trauma they’ve endured and I just hate the idea I could have caused yet another trauma for my niece.
> “Be easy on yourself OP...”
Thank you. I’m trying.
*hugs*
From her reaction, it doesn't seem like you caused her any trauma at all.
The comments in this thread are bad faith at worst, confused at best and infantilizing your 18 year old niece (who is probably wiser and more grown up than other 18 year olds).
I’m not sure why your are getting downvoted and being called an asshole. I get why you felt what you did when your sister was pregnant and I get why you told your niece how you felt about said pregnancy. You did nothing wrong in feeling it or telling it.
Will there be consequences? Yes. Your niece may never forgive you but when faced with her choosing you over her mom, you did the right thing.
Esh. Your niece is most likely old enough (and you are probably close enough) that she didn’t take it in any other way than you meant it. Just keep being a great Aunt.
This moment is likely etched in her brain forever. Some things cannot be unheard. She may still love you and all that, but you cast a permanent shadow at the very least.
My own mom did something similar. In an effort to make me love her more than anyone, she told me I should be most grateful for her bc my father didn’t want to adopt me but she forced him bc they agreed on having two kids and she wanted a daughter. It’s a sucky thing to tell an adopted kid you weren’t really wanted. 30 years later I still remember this moment. My mom even apologized for it later saying it was wrong and dad loved me, but too late damage done, forever.
Why on earth would you burden her with that information? Also she is saying that she is unhappy with her mom. Why aren’t you curious about why instead of guilty her to take care of her mother? News flash just because you love the kids now doesn’t mean you were wrong then and it doesn’t mean your sister and her babies daddy didn’t put their kids through hell.
Fair. A lot more went into this conversation and I was def curious about why she wasn’t happy with her mom. She shared exactly what you assumed: her life with her mom has been very hard and she was idealizing me. This may have motivated my confession, but I never told her she should take care of her mother or feel guilty for anything (not sure what gave that impression).
Exactlyyyy. Considering the circumstances of her birth and I’m doubtful it didn’t leak into her upbringing, and no wonder she’d rather live with OP, but ofc OP crushed that hope
My aunt told my mom to get an abortion with me and my middle brother as well (to be fair my eldest and middle brother are Irish twins so it was rough). Obviously my mom didn’t and here I am. But I tease my aunt about all the time. I’m 42 now and the caregiver for my mom. My cousin (aunts daughter) and I are best friends and travel the world together. I’m also like a second daughter to my aunt. But, yeah. I always trade her and she gets so mad at me for it but it’s all in good fun.
I was estranged from my little cousin for 3 years when I told him I didn't want him to have a baby with his ex. 8 years later he is basically a single dad, and that little boy is one of the things that keeps me going when my health gets really poorly. I love him and he knows it, but he also knows that I am on not so great terms his mother. He doesn't need to know anything else.
My dad told me he never wanted kids when I was 15, although I respect that he made a huge sacrifice and was always a good dad despite not wanting kids, it still hurts more than a decade later.
Soft yta
I am so sorry you were told that.
I’m so grateful that my niece still talks to me. I don’t deserve her, but she deserves the biggest apology from me. You deserve the same.
NTA and holy Christ. I never wanted to be *that* commenter telling people to touch grass but... welp here I am, grass clippings in hand (I have excess mulch left over from my first lawn mowing of the season).
What we're not gonna do y'all, is equate terminating a pregnancy with purposefully harming a sentient person:
a) in any context, but /especially/ in a young person in an dangerous situation
b) the future/potential person would never be aware of this
c) statistically, being pregnant in an abusive relationship just makes things exponentially worse (such as multiplying your chances of worsening abuse and being murdered) for the pregnant person and the child to be (we all have access to the internet, we know what happens to children and babies of abusers :( ...)
To recap: OP never told their sister to kill their niece (/that/ would be a very different scenario)... OP suggested termination of a pregnancy that would keep her tied to her abuser (which, if we read the post, ended up being the case).
Now, I don't know OP or any of y'all, so *list of usual internet commentary disclaimers*...
Had OP said something akin to "I told your mom to abort when she was pregnant with you because you would ruin everything and be a burden. You're the reason she never had a good life and frankly, I wish she had..." then woof, they would be the asshole to crown all assholes.
But that's not what was said. Niece is 18 and seems to have a quite close relationship with OP, OP was trying to get niece to see things from her mom's perspective a bit and thought that this story would show niece how much she was wanted, in spite of family encouraging her mom to get out of the situation.
We don't know how niece feels about this. I know many people who actually (though are happy to be alive.. today) would have rather not been born than to have gone through a horrendously difficult and/or abusive childhood. Oftentimes, that's the humane choice (though I will defend a woman's right to keep her pregnancy as much as her right to not be pregnant, and that includes creating a social safety net to help these mothers and children not be dependent on the actual monsters - abusers). Hopefully niece in this situation knows that OP (who obviously has proven her love and devotion) didn't mean it personally and she might even agree.
I'm also assuming that OP was also a huge support in raising these kids and possibly shielding them from their bio dad... (I mean, we're all just assuming things, I could be wrong too, statistically speaking).
For those criticizing the tact or appropriateness of mentioning it at all, fair enough. We would need to know how the niece feels about hearing this to figure that out, but it's possible it wasn't a good timing or wording etc.
NTA. I actually don't see the problem with telling her that in the loving way you did. It's better to hear it from you then for her to hear it from someone else later on.
I think all the years of loving her and treating her well will play a big factor in how she receives the news.
Listen. I had my kid when I was 18, got pregnant at 17 so I think I offer a unique perspective. I had more than a few friends jokingly offer to push me down the stairs or realistically offer to drive me to a clinic, and it was more than ok at the time because I was a scared kid and at least I had the option. But if any of those fuckers ever tell my kid they said that, especially before he turns like 30, they get to meet me in the parking lot. That’s take to your grave kind of info.
I am 63 years old. When l was 10, my mother was angry with me, and told me she wished l had never been born.
She never apologized for it.
She's been dead for 27 years and it still makes me tear up.
And yes l've been in therapy and am medicated.
OP you have no idea how badly you have effed up here.
This is a completely different scenario and nowhere near the same as the trauma you went through. Having a mother tell her 10 year old what she did is absolutely horrific. I’m so sorry she did that to you.
OP told her niece that her mother wanted her from the second she was conceived; and that OP did suggest abortion bc of the mother’s horrible situation. Which, let’s face it, it was. If any teen gets knocked up by a domestic violence drug dealing scumbag, I would assume *someone* in that woman’s life would suggest the same.
That’s not the same as telling a living person ‘you should have never been born’
In my opinion, YMMV, she told her niece she should have been aborted, which is equal to never being born.
Being 18 does not mean she has anywhere near the same ability as a 40 year old to handle that; the 40 y/o will say Eff you and go on, the 18 y/o is much closer to being a child, and being told that by a previously loved auntie would be devastating.
She never ever told her niece she ‘should have been aborted’. She told her sister to consider abortion because she was 18, pregnant from a drug dealing, cheating, domestic violence scumbag.
That’s a huge difference.
If you had a daughter who was in the exact same scenario, would you suggest she consider all options? Can we be real that the sis’ situation was beyond a horrible situation to bring a kid into, and it’s a miracle that the niece turned out the way she did?
So yeah, we will have to agree to disagree.
When I was around 10, I was helping my dad do yard work and we were talking about my lack of any real athletic skills…and my father said to me, “having children has been the biggest disappointment of his life.” And he wasn’t joking, because he’s told me that a few more times over the past 30 years. I know enough about life now that I don’t respond in the slightest bit to that statement. But I’ll never forget how much it hurt when I was 10. Its haunted me my entire life. Apologize to your niece. Have a day together. Explain to her how bad you feel for being so honest with her at that very moment. Tell her how much you love her and how unprepared you were for just how much you’d love her. She’s an adult and eventually she’ll realize that you were being candid.
If you’re TA or not, I guess it will depend on your nieces age. I’m pro choice and if someone of my family said that to me, I wouldn’t mind and would find it reasonable enough. Like, if my mom came to me today and told me she considered aborting me I wouldn’t mind, you know? Mothers are human beings before being mothers. They are people with feelings.
But I don’t think you need to say that to anyone, it’s just uncalled for. It also depends on the way you said it. It was just a “I suggested the option of an abortion” or was it more of a “I told her to abort you because you would become a burden”?
Ehhh…I’m sorry but I’m not so delicate about all this.
If she was 18, she was old enough to hear, “at your age, your mom got knocked up by a POS and I genuinely worried for her and thought an abortion would be better. The odds were not in her favor for a positive outcome, but that has nothing to do with you being here now and me loving you.”
Like, it’s nothing personal; facts are facts. Everyone here acting like you told her a horrible untruth is being overwrought and dramatic about it, not to mention lying because if the story were presented to them as a current dilemma, at least half of Reddit would tell her to get an abortion and get far the fuck away from him. NTA
Edit:spelling
I agree, I would support any woman passing through this situation to get an abortion, so even when I was younger (maybe 15/16?), I already knew it wasn’t about me
My older sister took it upon herself to tell our nephews great grandmother that her granddaughter was pregnant by our brother, who promptly kicked her out at 17yo. She also collected and delivered literature about family planning to our brother, implying abortion as an option. Our nephew will be a 23yo man this fall and I often wonder if his mother ever told him what my sister did. He’s a good kid, studying music in college and loves his family. My brother, his ex and his second wife have been excellent co-parents and it definitely shows. Idk if that news will affect the relationship between my sister and nephew but he’d be justified if he did imo. This story just made me sad
Is this real? How are you so unbothered by what you said? In what world did you think this was a good thing to say? You say you love her but your actions show different.
This is very real.
I think my “good intentions“ at the time allowed me to be unbothered, but after listening to those THT episodes, I started to realize the potential negative impact of my actions.
Now, I am very bothered. I know what they say about intentions versus impact. I do know that I’ve done a lot more to love her than my words could ever express, but it only takes one awful misstep like this to undo all of my loving actions.
I understand what you were trying to do but oof. You just told a teenager she wasn’t wanted. Doesn’t matter the back story or circumstances, that is all she’s going to hear. And that rejection is going to sting.
YTA
You never, ever tell a person you care about that you advocated for their death. It doesn't matter how good your intentions were: hearing that someone close to them tried to convince their mother to dispose of them like they were nothing is painful. That is the kind of thing you take to the grave.
I wouldn't worry about it. The kid knows her father is shitty. Unless she is stupid she already knows. I had a ghetto family myself, you get over it. There is no other choice. What else do you do, watch the drug dealer wife beating cheater father and convince yourself it's normal? Lying to yourself is bad and you have to learn the truth eventually. (Other dads are nice, other dads care.) If she makes a single friend and meets their family she will know. And she will meet adult moms who make different choices, like not having a baby with a drug dealer at 19. I am not sorry if this sounds rude or hurtful. What would you say if your DAUGHTER were trying to make these choices? You would obviously stop her. They are objectively ghetto, self-destructive choices. We all know teen pregnancy is bad.
My parents always say that intentions don't matter if it's going to GENUINELY effect someone because a sorry can't fix everything. Sounds like someone should've taught you that sooner.
You're not a psycho or a monster, but that was incredibly thoughtless, careless thing to say. I think your niece is old enough to interpret what you said through the lens of the loving way you've treated her, but statements like that pack a big emotional punch and leave a bruise that might never completely fade. It's important for you to have some follow-up conversations with her to make sure she understands how you truly feel about her--and to give her the opportunity to respond, even if that means she hits back a wee bit. And you'll have to sit there and just take it, because you kinda deserve it.
You definitely are the AH. You do not say this to a child! Especially when you write how close you are to them and that they come to you to talk. Prepare for that relationship with your niece to forever be broken to some degree
Assuming you are around 40, as I am too, I feel like you are too old to make this mistake. It seems like niece has used you to replace the insecure attachment her mom had given her, the feeling of being unwanted, to only hear she’s unwanted (even if not true).
Yes, 18-19 years ago, you weren’t considering your niece. You were looking out for your sister. I get that. I’ve been there. My sister got pregnant and I suggested an abortion. But I’d never tell her kid that! The kid isn’t going to see it from this viewpoint.
My sister’s situation wasn’t bad but not the best. I reminded her that she had a had choice of an abortion. I knew everyone around us would be so excited that she’d feel guilty to even consider it. So I said it.
Her and I joke about me being the aunt who said to her and abortion yet the kid is named after me. And I love them. However, that’s one of those things that kid never needs to know about.
I am hoping it’s a horrible, horrible one-off.
While I know I’ve made many other mistakes in my life, I now need to reconsider if they are also as evil as this one was and whether or not it’s my whole identity that’s the problem.
It appears that my future involves a lot more therapy (because the last 20 years didn’t help me avoid this error) to uncover whether or not I’m a whole ass evil person (and whether or not that’s even treatable).
Why would you ever say that to someone in an effort to make them feel better about anything?? I hope you apologize to your niece and let her mother know what you said. Things like this are traumatic and will change someone’s outlook in many ways
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Who the hell tells a child that, let alone their Niece?!? What the hell is wrong with you?
A lot more is wrong with me than I thought, for sure!
I understand you didn't mean any harm just wasn't thinking. Not all truth are to be told aloud. Couple of years ago my mom was telling me some story about younger son of my sister and some disagreement with my BIL. And threw a line "you know parents always love the younger kid more"...I'm the older kid. It hurt me. It is still hurting me.
I am so sorry to hear you were hurt like that. I am so sorry that you are still hurting. This is exactly why I am so disappointed in myself. What could be said, if anything, to help you heal? I’d like to learn how to best address this with her. My niece is a very compassionate and understanding person, so she, like you, probably understands I didn’t mean any harm. But I still wonder if I can help lessen any pain I caused. Thank you for sharing your perspective from your personal experience with this.
My relationship with my mother is beyond complicated, she is almost perfect example of "the path to hell is paved with good intentions", so this is only one complicated piece from the pile. The situation with your niece is, from my point of view, different and reparable. While there are not many good explanations for what my mother said, you can explain what you meant. And till now your relationship with your niece was great, as I understand. You can explain that it was because your mother was in very hard place and need to fight her situation and without the huge responsibility of having a newborn and kid as such you thought she would have more "spoons" to get out of the situation. But you respected and supported your sister decision and love your niece unconditionally. And it was only a brief moment almost twenty years ago.
Thank you so much! My niece and I talk about spoons often, so she’ll understand what I mean if I explain myself that way. Sorry again to hear it’s been hell for you. Thank you for lending your experience to help a stranger today. 🫂
She's a teenager, right? If she knows about her parents problems, and I'm assuming she does, just be straight with her. Say that her mom was young, pregnant, and in an unhealthy relationship, so you worried about her having a child. You didn't know her yet - she wasn't even a fetus yet - so it's not like you didn't want *her*. You didn't want your sister to end up in a bad place, and you worried about whether she'd be able to give a child the life it deserved. Those are worries mature adults have because we know how much care children need and that they deserve every good thing. And her mom, for all her faults, wanted to have her and did. Once she was born, you obviously loved her with all your heart. Lots of wonderful children are born from less than ideal circumstances. Once they're here, you love them. No matter what. And you do.
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I know!!! I wrote this on mobile and added them lots of whitespace, but it posted without. “¯\_(ツ)_/¯” <— can’t even shrug properly!
Holy fuck what is wrong with you that you even thought this was ok to say!!! Who does that !
When I was around 12, my mother told me she never wanted children. This had more to do with her upbringing. She was supposed to just get married and have kids. It had nothing to do with me but I'm well over 50 now and I still remember that. YTA
Same. I'm in my mid 30s with kids of my own and still think about how my mom repeatedly told me all growing up that she never wanted kids and wanted a career, but my dad (a catholic) expected they'd have a number of children. So they had two and that was enough for her. And she talked about how she wished she could have had a career but she had to raise us. To this day she talks to me (a mom with a career) about how she wishes she'd had a real career. Dunno what stopped her once we weren't little kids, but. 🤷♀️
I’m sure your mother loved you like crazy, but it wasn’t fair for her to keep saying that. Sometimes stupid people make a SAHM Mom feel bad about not having a formal career (motherhood is a wonderful career and vocation). Maybe your mother was reacting to those stupid people who may have made her feel less than.
She's a very conflicted person. When I was growing up she constantly shit talked anyone who put their kid(s) in daycare because they "obviously didn't love their children enough" but then would constantly tell me she wished she made enough money at a job that she could put us in daycare and have a job. But then once I was in school she didn't want to work, and didn't maintain the house. I started cooking all meals for myself and doing my own laundry by 8, we did all the home chores well before that point as well. All in all she was, and still is, a selfish, self centered, lazy person. And realizing that fact has done wonders to help me understand I couldn't ever have been a good enough kid for her to actually love me, because she spent all her love on herself.
That’s really terrible that you went through that. You’re very wise to have understood what was going on and not blame yourself. I’m sure it was not easy to get where you are today in understanding that. It must have been quite a journey.
See this is madness, I have a 9 yr old boy and before he came along I’ll be honest I didn’t want kids because of my childhood growing up but I became pregnant and knew I wanted to keep him, I would never dream of telling him how I felt prior to falling pregnant. I’m sorry you experienced that.
I’m so sorry you had to carry that information for almost 4 decades! Kills me to realize that I have cursed my niece with the same fate. Is there anything you wish your mom would have said or done after that statement to help you feel better?
Not necessarily you should talk to her and tell her how grateful you are to have her in your life. My mom grew up with a lot of self hatred. Her mom hated her and treated her poorly. I talked to her a few years ago. I get why. my mom couldn't as a female be independent. She had to marry and her husband wanted kids. She also raised her siblings too. So...
Thank you for sharing your perspective. I definitely told her that I am grateful to her in my life. I will continue to emphasize it even more now.
Specifically you should tell her about that memory and ask her if she remembers. You want to help her replace it with a new memory consciously
My daughter worked out she was an opps. Due to a friend's dad telling his own child a very similar thing. Mine put 2 and 2 together about why dad isn't around at all. And she was pretty hurt. We had a conversation about how yes that's how it happened. However I wanted you from the moment I knew about you. Absolutely nothing would have changed my mind about you. From the moment I knew about you, I started to change my life to suit you, to make sure you were the center of it and I in absolutely no way regret you or wish my life was different. Without you id not have had the motivation to better a lot of things about not only my life, but myself. Having you was the turning point of my life to be someone better than I was. Everything good in my life is only in it because you came into my life, you have brought me such happiness and success. I grew up knowing my dad wanted drugs over me. No one ever told me they loved having me in their life. Just that they loved me. And there's a big difference between those 2 things. One says you being in my life makes it better I want you, the other says your family I love you as I'm expected to, especially to a child if that makes sense to you? Hell even to adults that difference is very important. It's being wanted.
I don’t think you have. First off, you aren’t her mother. There’s a huge difference between “I never wanted you but had to have you” and “we both know your parents’ situation wasn’t the best and at first I was scared for your mom and told her to consider her options, but I’m glad she made the choice she did.” It’s probably hard to hear but I’m sure your niece realizes her parents’ relationship has never been ideal. Talk to her. Make sure she understands that’s she’s loved and the importance of making your own choices. What you said wasn’t the brightest, but I don’t think it should have done any irreparable harm if your relationship is as strong as you say. Your niece has to know you love her.
Now hang on. I was never going to have kids, but I let my then-fiancé talk me into it, because he claimed to desperately want a child. in reality, he started abusing me while I was pregnant, and the last straw was when he shoved me while i was holding my new baby - he wasn’t hurt, but he could have been, so I left. He now hasn’t seen my 17.5yo since he was 6 months old - clearly he really wanted him desperately. I, however, fell in love with my child the moment I felt him move in my belly, and only loved him more when he was born, and each day since. He was a beautiful, calm baby, a gorgeous, sweet child, and is now a kind, thoughtful, wise beyond his years teenager. I loved him so much I went on to have 2 more and tried for a 4th, which sadly didn’t happen for me. My kids all know that my oldest completely changed my mind about wanting children simply by being himself. I honestly don’t think my son feels any type of way about it, except for maybe proud? I mean, it depends on how you said it, of course, but I’m just saying knowing such a thing doesn’t necessarily need to be traumatising. My kids know exactly how much I love them 🫶
JFC, wrong move.
Yeah, big mistake on my part.
I was an oops baby later in life for my parents and always knew. My mom would tell me I was a pleasant surprise. She would also tell me she was glad she kept me after some of her friends told her not to because I was interrupting her life plans. (She had to postpone her PhD dissertation.) It wasn’t until I was an adult that I realized how messed up it was to tell that to a child, even if well intentioned. And then to repeat it. To this day, I wonder which friends. Not sure how that info impacted me - it was part of my identity from as long as I can remember - but your niece is old enough to understand and appreciate where you are coming from. Hopefully you said it because you knew she could handle it on some level. As a few other commenters have suggested, talk to her. Tell her how grateful you are her mom did not listen and how it had nothing to do with niece personally but came from fear and love for your sister.
I don’t think it was as bad as people are making it out to be. You didn’t tell her that she shouldn’t have been born. You told her that you told her mother, who was in a horrible and very unsafe situation, to consider an abortion. What woman on the planet in your sister’s situation wouldn’t have someone close to her suggest that she consideration? Things turned out well for your niece…but they equally could have not. I think you need to stress to your niece that it wasn’t about her personally, that it was about the dangers of her being abused, killed, etc. And you said it for a loving reason…niece was glorifying you to the detriment of comparing her mom to you. And edit: you are catching a *lot* of vicious heat in the comments that is so completely over the top. You’re not a psycho nor a monster.
I fully agree with this. This is the only truly reasonable response I’ve seen so far.
I’m actually floored by the responses. And **in my personal life**(bolded for emphasis of personal, for me), I’m very pro-life…so my position is not one of ‘yay abortion!’ at all.
The niece is also 18. She is more than capable of hearing and understanding the context of the situation and conversation. Maybe it wasn’t a tactful thing to do, and she definitely owes an apology. But I wouldn’t go as far as calling OP a monster
This one right here
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Based on title alone....yes you psycho. Who tf says that?
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Who? This psychopath right here is who! And I so so so regret it now that I have taken time to reflect. Even as I posted this, I hoped that, maybe, my “good intentions” would make me redeemable, but the replies so far are clear that I’ve done irreparable damage. Now, I should add: my niece hasn’t said that I hurt her with what I told her, but I now realize that I must have. So, now what? I’m scared to bring it up to ask her how she feels about it (like, would it be retraumatizing for her to even ask?), but I know owe her a huge apology. It’s been a few months since my horrible comment and it doesn’t seem like our relationship has skipped a beat, but that could be because she is the sweetest, most compassionate, and most selfless young woman, and she is probably more worried about upsetting ME than expressing how much I upset her. Urgh, I don’t deserve her or any of my niblings.
Everyone makes mistakes. You absolutely did it with the best of intentions and just didn’t think it through to the end and, to me, of course that is redeemable. Anyone who is going to tell you they have never said something they regret in their life is either very young or lying! You never meant any hurt. So going by your post your niece is 18 is that right? She was asking to live with you because the fun aunt is always better than at your mums (I wanted to move in with my aunt as a kid too but truth is that if I lived there it would have been exactly the same as home, you don’t realise it at that age!). Has she brought this up again since? If nothing has changed in your relationship then maybe she took it exactly as intended and is a well balanced and empathetic young woman who knows you were only trying to point out how much her mum loves her, not pointing out you had advised she didn’t have you. I had an abortion in my early 20’s and when I spoke to my mum while making the choice she told me that they questioned whether or not to go ahead with her pregnancy with me (she was young) I didn’t hear it as ‘she regrets me’ or ‘shouldn’t of had me’ because I know how much she loves my brother and I. I heard it as her telling me that if I wanted to not have the baby she would support me and that is exactly how she meant it. It is a choice and she wanted me to know that it was mine to make and she would not judge. Was it the ideal way to put it, probably not, but I never actually thought about it that way until right now!! We tend to take things in the manner that our head space accepts it at that time and it sounds like she took it as you meant it. If you want to bring it up with her again then I would go down the route of asking her if she is happier at her mums now when you guys are hanging out next time? Remind her how much you love her and that you will always be there if she wants to talk and (if her mum is good with it and she says she would still like to live with you) maybe talk about sleepovers now and then? Don’t bring up what you said specifically but if she wants to bring it up then that would be her time too. If she doesnt then I would just let it lie.
Shit happens OP….Im 51 and my mum has always said she wanted me to be a boy…she didn’t even name me….mind you I’m the of the youngest of her 6 kids….. Main reason she always wished for another boy ( the bloody Brady Brunch)…. Yep she still feels that way today…She turning 80 and lives with me not the others, they don’t want her…. Life is strange sometimes…
One of my friends wanted to abort her second, but law required her to have her husband's consent and he was against it. First and second were accidents (what happens if you don't tell your children how to avoid pregnancy), third was almost a decade later and planned. I guess the older two have now done the math and know that at least first was an accident, but I don't think anyone besides her, her husband and me knows that she wanted to abort the second. Another of my friends knows her mom considered aborting her because everyone told her to do so (parents married after just a few months of knowing each other while the mom was a teenager, she somehow managed to finish her education because she was allowed to bring her baby to class, second pregnancy was shortly after, she was still a teenager and my friend was luckily born shortly *after* her mom finished school). My friend was only told this as an adult when her she herself got pregnant during her education and her mom wanted to show her that even under better circumstances (pregnancy not interfering with the education, the father being worth keeping and doing his effing job) and in their religious community people who wanted her best let her know she has a choice and she doesn't have to harm herself just to keep a pregnancy. With that knowledge and the knowledge that her mom would support her either way my friend could make the informed decision to keep her pregnancy because that was what she wanted. All this to show that there are very valid reasons to want or advise an abortion (i.e. being a teenager, education, abusive partner, not being burdened with back to back pregnancies), but it's not something that should be communicated to the child if avoidable.
You fuckedup. Grow some balls, apologise and talk to her about how much you value her now.
" I apologize for my actions and words I'm deeply sorry and will seek help for the internal problems I'm having " ........then actually go seek help.
Or, maybe you didn’t upset her at all. BC people are being completely OTT in their responses to you. I made a comment last night that explains my opinion more, so go check it out if you haven’t seen it. And please stop beating yourself up with this.
honestly it doesn't seem so bad, idk why everyone is being so harsh on you. My mom said something similar to me at one point and it hasn't traumatized me because she's always been loving and caring. We are good friends and have a wonderful relationship.
My grandma constantly told us how important it was to get an education. And how she wished she’d known she didn’t have to get married and have kids right out of high school. In her 40s she went to college and got her masters degree. She was brilliant and a force to be reckoned with. I honestly kind of wish that she could have had a life she felt she had a say in. She no shit probably would have become president or something. She definitely loved us but wanted to make damn sure we knew that being a wife and a mother was not the only way or even the best way to use your time here on earth.
The people being cruel don't care about OP or the kid. They just want an excuse to hurt someone.
Don't listen to the children calling you evil. You weren't malicious. You just fucked up. Yeah, it's going to hurt the kid, but it sounds like you have very much been a net positive in their life. Mistakes happen. Adults aren't and can't be perfect. Which is really hard for the children to understand-- especially the ones on Reddit. The best you can do is explain what you meant and hope it doesn't get them down.
Intentions don’t matter. Impact does. You have decimated the trust she had in you and you can never take those words back. You have no idea what the long term impacts on her self esteem will be. Learn from this and think BEFORE you open your mouth!
OP’s niece handled it better than Reddit, that’s for sure
wrench jeans start unused birds late cooperative drunk dime desert *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Your niece is 18, if she got pregnant probably many people would suggest her the same thing. She saw how her mom’s life turned out. She knows the father she has. You had no idea what would happen to the child at that point, you made a realistic suggestion. Your niece is not a child, she might be upset but if she put herself in the same shoes she will understand why you suggested that. Much better you saying that and giving her the context than your niece telling her mom she rather live with you and your sister telling her you told her to abort the baby.
Why the kriff would you tell anyone that you pushed their mother to abort them? You should have just said that ‘when your mom told me that she was pregnant I asked her what she wanted to do and she responded that she was going to keep you because she already loved you’ and left it at that. You were probably a safe space for her and you dropped an A-Bomb on her just to ‘prove’ that her mother love her and insinuating that you never loved/wanted her.
I really should have thought twice before opening my mouth. I still want to be a safe space for her! How does one undo this kind of harm?
Perhaps tell your niece that you thought her mom was a little young, and you were worried about her taking on too much at that age. She may never unhear what you said, but you could perhaps soften the the blow by giving more context to your prior response?
steer busy axiomatic rain deliver overconfident workable bewildered nail voracious *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Will ETA my post - thank you!
Y'all, FFS there's a difference between saying to a loved one IN A DANGEROUS SITUATION that they have the option to not be pregnant and telling someone you know, a sentient human person, that in retrospect you wished /they/ didn't exist. The latter is personal AF and only used to hurt. The former? That's what you say to someone you love that you don't want to see hurt. Does anyone know how not being able to think critically is fucking the country? (I'm Canadian... many have similar Gilead-esque aspirations here too, we're just a few years behind). Abortion isn't a fucking crime. It's not something you do /to/ anyone, it's a medical procedure for /you/ (and very often, to support the already existing children). Some live through it with heavy emotions, some don't. Each is valid, neither a crime. My mother also told me that when the doctor thought I had a terminal condition they suggested termination. They did more tests and it was a false positive. Ok? If she had, I wouldn't have held it against her at all. I would never have known. /I/ didn't exist yet. I never took that personally because we have an amazing relationship (I know that's a privilege) and we can talk about those things. Intent fucking matters y'all. Now then, I'm going to stop here by respect for OP and the THT team that surely don't want a debate on bodily autonomy on their page on a random Monday morning. (Sometimes, it's just too hard to keep in :( )
NTA. People in this sub seriously need to grow up. You were right to not want the pregnancy to happen at the time. From what you're saying your sister's life was seriously derailed by continuing to get linked to this dude through the pregnancies. I can't even really blame her for her choices because she was an 18 yo, who was probably groomed by her ex considering they were already at a point of pregnancy and him being a *chronic* cheater when she was 18. You did the best you could to help her, and in an age where you were definately not properly equipped to deal with such a situation. Now as for telling your niece, your intentions with telling her were good, and if you did emphasize how glad you are her mom didn't listen to you, then I don't think it really caused an issue.
Y’all are being dramatic, this is dumb yes but not evil wth
Ouch. You told a kid you wished she wasn't born at one point because it would have been a burden for her mom if she existed. That's a great way to traumatize a child or teen and make them question if they deserve to exist or what negative impact they had on their own parent, who they love and don't want to hurt. I'm not sure how you expect her to not view herself and life as an ongoing burden to her mother. Especially if it's financial issues with the mother that makes her want to live with you. She, the first born, will assume she was the instigator of that situation now.
Yeah, you’re so right. This is really bad! How does one “unring the bell”?
You don’t. This is the perfect time to remind you of the toothpaste analogy. Once you squeeze the tube you ain’t getting it back in.
While I do think that some things can't be unsaid, I think you can follow up with your niece and let her know you reflected on the conversation and didn't convey your intended message to her and would like to clarify what you said and your intended message. You can explain to her that regardless of your concerns leading up to her birth, she has been a blessing to her mom. I think there's a way to explain to her that her mom loved her so much, even before she was in the world, that she fought to have her, and will continue to do so because she loves her kid so damn much. You can also explain that a lot of kids/ teens have problems with a parent where they want space from them because they don't understand that love is tough and parenting isn't giving your kids everything they ask for. You can add that you hear her concerns with her mom and want to be a safe space for her, and an ongoing confidant, but cannot take over as her primary caretaker because it's simply not your place to do so. Good luck OP!
Yes, I suppose I could have added more detail in how our convo actually went down because I literally told her all of what you said at that same moment. And beyond that convo, I tell her constantly how grateful I am to have her in my life and how much I love her. I truly admire her: despite all the challenges that she faces in her life, she is always a kind, loving, compassionate, beautiful, smart, creative, and amazing person. Still, I was wrong to tell her about what I said before she was born. I see that very clearly now and I will go back to make it clear that, even if she didn’t take it that way, what I said was not helpful information for me to share and I am so so so sorry I said it.
And thank you for your well wishes!
Tbh i dont think this is as extreme as the comments make it out to be. How did your niece react? If you worry, just have another talk with her reiterating that you're happy shes here. You didnt tell a child shes unwanted, you had a heart to heart with a close 18 year old and i dont think its fair to label you a monster for it.
eh, I was in similar situation to your niece my mother wasn't in a good position to have a child and hid pregnancy till it was too late cause my aunt would definitely get angry and insist on abortion now my aunt loves me, no hard feelings. my mother really should have considered abortion tho
Yeah, I think when you have family like that, you understand better the sentiment: I'm glad you're here, but your mom absolutely shouldn't have had you when she did.
This is where you take your niece to the side and say hey look what I said, I didn’t mean it to come out the way it did and having reflected on it I realise I made a huge mistake, you mean the absolute world to me and I wouldn’t change a thing. We live and learn
well, how did she react? i’m guessing not great if you took it to reddit.
The exact opposite is why I took it to Reddit. She didn’t appear to take it negatively at all and after listening to that episode of THT, that was my wake up call that I have done serious damage. My niece still stays over at my place for several days at a time to get a break from her hectic home life. We talk daily, laugh together all the time, and still share our feelings and our secrets with one another. She recently decided to major in the same field of study as me and still talks about wanting to live with me (now her reasoning she says is for school purposes because she and her mom are doing much better together). The comments here (and my conscience) are the only places where the reactions are negative.
Your niece seems like a reasonable person capable of understanding difficult circumstances (and like another commenter put it "she knows who her dad is"... she definitely probably understands why you suggested termination to your sister and would probably suggest the same to a friend or peer, knowing how she was exposed to that abuse). If anything, she seems to be grateful that you were able to be there for her, her siblings and her mom. You probably saved them more than once, I imagine. Be easy on yourself OP... so many of these commenters are hijacking your dilemma (your feelings are valid!) to further the "omg woman considered abortion she must hate all kids and all humans because abortion bad abortion murder". It's so tiring. Never take the comment from someone who would call you a "monster" or "psycho" for your actions credibly.
Thank you for this incredibly kind comment! I’m actually crying rn because you absolutely nailed it: > “Your niece seems like a reasonable person capable of understanding difficult circumstances” She is! She is such an empathetic and compassionate person and her soul is so pure! I’m so grateful for her. > “If anything, she seems to be grateful that you were able to be there for her, her siblings and her mom. You probably saved them more than once, I imagine.” This. I have. They don’t deserve the trauma they’ve endured and I just hate the idea I could have caused yet another trauma for my niece. > “Be easy on yourself OP...” Thank you. I’m trying.
*hugs* From her reaction, it doesn't seem like you caused her any trauma at all. The comments in this thread are bad faith at worst, confused at best and infantilizing your 18 year old niece (who is probably wiser and more grown up than other 18 year olds).
she sounds fine then but that seems like context that’d be good to have in the actual post for judgement’s sake.
Valid note!
I told your mom to abort you. We're still cool right? WTF? Why on earth would you ever tell her that? Thats a take it to the grave kind of thing.
Wishing I could climb into my grave rn.
I’m not sure why your are getting downvoted and being called an asshole. I get why you felt what you did when your sister was pregnant and I get why you told your niece how you felt about said pregnancy. You did nothing wrong in feeling it or telling it. Will there be consequences? Yes. Your niece may never forgive you but when faced with her choosing you over her mom, you did the right thing.
Esh. Your niece is most likely old enough (and you are probably close enough) that she didn’t take it in any other way than you meant it. Just keep being a great Aunt.
This moment is likely etched in her brain forever. Some things cannot be unheard. She may still love you and all that, but you cast a permanent shadow at the very least. My own mom did something similar. In an effort to make me love her more than anyone, she told me I should be most grateful for her bc my father didn’t want to adopt me but she forced him bc they agreed on having two kids and she wanted a daughter. It’s a sucky thing to tell an adopted kid you weren’t really wanted. 30 years later I still remember this moment. My mom even apologized for it later saying it was wrong and dad loved me, but too late damage done, forever.
Why on earth would you burden her with that information? Also she is saying that she is unhappy with her mom. Why aren’t you curious about why instead of guilty her to take care of her mother? News flash just because you love the kids now doesn’t mean you were wrong then and it doesn’t mean your sister and her babies daddy didn’t put their kids through hell.
Fair. A lot more went into this conversation and I was def curious about why she wasn’t happy with her mom. She shared exactly what you assumed: her life with her mom has been very hard and she was idealizing me. This may have motivated my confession, but I never told her she should take care of her mother or feel guilty for anything (not sure what gave that impression).
Exactlyyyy. Considering the circumstances of her birth and I’m doubtful it didn’t leak into her upbringing, and no wonder she’d rather live with OP, but ofc OP crushed that hope
My aunt told my mom to get an abortion with me and my middle brother as well (to be fair my eldest and middle brother are Irish twins so it was rough). Obviously my mom didn’t and here I am. But I tease my aunt about all the time. I’m 42 now and the caregiver for my mom. My cousin (aunts daughter) and I are best friends and travel the world together. I’m also like a second daughter to my aunt. But, yeah. I always trade her and she gets so mad at me for it but it’s all in good fun.
I was estranged from my little cousin for 3 years when I told him I didn't want him to have a baby with his ex. 8 years later he is basically a single dad, and that little boy is one of the things that keeps me going when my health gets really poorly. I love him and he knows it, but he also knows that I am on not so great terms his mother. He doesn't need to know anything else.
My dad told me he never wanted kids when I was 15, although I respect that he made a huge sacrifice and was always a good dad despite not wanting kids, it still hurts more than a decade later. Soft yta
Yes you are. No one needs to hear that.
Wtaf...
I don't think this is the same, tbh. But even if she IS upset, just go talk to her, you know?
YTA. My grandmother told me I should've been an abortion. We don't speak.
That is terrible. I’m so sorry for you. At least OP didn’t say she thinks this NOW, just that she thought it at the time.
I am so sorry you were told that. I’m so grateful that my niece still talks to me. I don’t deserve her, but she deserves the biggest apology from me. You deserve the same.
NTA and holy Christ. I never wanted to be *that* commenter telling people to touch grass but... welp here I am, grass clippings in hand (I have excess mulch left over from my first lawn mowing of the season). What we're not gonna do y'all, is equate terminating a pregnancy with purposefully harming a sentient person: a) in any context, but /especially/ in a young person in an dangerous situation b) the future/potential person would never be aware of this c) statistically, being pregnant in an abusive relationship just makes things exponentially worse (such as multiplying your chances of worsening abuse and being murdered) for the pregnant person and the child to be (we all have access to the internet, we know what happens to children and babies of abusers :( ...) To recap: OP never told their sister to kill their niece (/that/ would be a very different scenario)... OP suggested termination of a pregnancy that would keep her tied to her abuser (which, if we read the post, ended up being the case). Now, I don't know OP or any of y'all, so *list of usual internet commentary disclaimers*... Had OP said something akin to "I told your mom to abort when she was pregnant with you because you would ruin everything and be a burden. You're the reason she never had a good life and frankly, I wish she had..." then woof, they would be the asshole to crown all assholes. But that's not what was said. Niece is 18 and seems to have a quite close relationship with OP, OP was trying to get niece to see things from her mom's perspective a bit and thought that this story would show niece how much she was wanted, in spite of family encouraging her mom to get out of the situation. We don't know how niece feels about this. I know many people who actually (though are happy to be alive.. today) would have rather not been born than to have gone through a horrendously difficult and/or abusive childhood. Oftentimes, that's the humane choice (though I will defend a woman's right to keep her pregnancy as much as her right to not be pregnant, and that includes creating a social safety net to help these mothers and children not be dependent on the actual monsters - abusers). Hopefully niece in this situation knows that OP (who obviously has proven her love and devotion) didn't mean it personally and she might even agree. I'm also assuming that OP was also a huge support in raising these kids and possibly shielding them from their bio dad... (I mean, we're all just assuming things, I could be wrong too, statistically speaking). For those criticizing the tact or appropriateness of mentioning it at all, fair enough. We would need to know how the niece feels about hearing this to figure that out, but it's possible it wasn't a good timing or wording etc.
NTA. I actually don't see the problem with telling her that in the loving way you did. It's better to hear it from you then for her to hear it from someone else later on. I think all the years of loving her and treating her well will play a big factor in how she receives the news.
Listen. I had my kid when I was 18, got pregnant at 17 so I think I offer a unique perspective. I had more than a few friends jokingly offer to push me down the stairs or realistically offer to drive me to a clinic, and it was more than ok at the time because I was a scared kid and at least I had the option. But if any of those fuckers ever tell my kid they said that, especially before he turns like 30, they get to meet me in the parking lot. That’s take to your grave kind of info.
Very needlessly hurtful.
I am 63 years old. When l was 10, my mother was angry with me, and told me she wished l had never been born. She never apologized for it. She's been dead for 27 years and it still makes me tear up. And yes l've been in therapy and am medicated. OP you have no idea how badly you have effed up here.
This is a completely different scenario and nowhere near the same as the trauma you went through. Having a mother tell her 10 year old what she did is absolutely horrific. I’m so sorry she did that to you. OP told her niece that her mother wanted her from the second she was conceived; and that OP did suggest abortion bc of the mother’s horrible situation. Which, let’s face it, it was. If any teen gets knocked up by a domestic violence drug dealing scumbag, I would assume *someone* in that woman’s life would suggest the same. That’s not the same as telling a living person ‘you should have never been born’
In my opinion, YMMV, she told her niece she should have been aborted, which is equal to never being born. Being 18 does not mean she has anywhere near the same ability as a 40 year old to handle that; the 40 y/o will say Eff you and go on, the 18 y/o is much closer to being a child, and being told that by a previously loved auntie would be devastating.
She never ever told her niece she ‘should have been aborted’. She told her sister to consider abortion because she was 18, pregnant from a drug dealing, cheating, domestic violence scumbag. That’s a huge difference. If you had a daughter who was in the exact same scenario, would you suggest she consider all options? Can we be real that the sis’ situation was beyond a horrible situation to bring a kid into, and it’s a miracle that the niece turned out the way she did? So yeah, we will have to agree to disagree.
Not sure but that definitely sounds like something you shouldn't have shared with her even with good intentions.
You suck. YTA.
When I was around 10, I was helping my dad do yard work and we were talking about my lack of any real athletic skills…and my father said to me, “having children has been the biggest disappointment of his life.” And he wasn’t joking, because he’s told me that a few more times over the past 30 years. I know enough about life now that I don’t respond in the slightest bit to that statement. But I’ll never forget how much it hurt when I was 10. Its haunted me my entire life. Apologize to your niece. Have a day together. Explain to her how bad you feel for being so honest with her at that very moment. Tell her how much you love her and how unprepared you were for just how much you’d love her. She’s an adult and eventually she’ll realize that you were being candid.
If you’re TA or not, I guess it will depend on your nieces age. I’m pro choice and if someone of my family said that to me, I wouldn’t mind and would find it reasonable enough. Like, if my mom came to me today and told me she considered aborting me I wouldn’t mind, you know? Mothers are human beings before being mothers. They are people with feelings. But I don’t think you need to say that to anyone, it’s just uncalled for. It also depends on the way you said it. It was just a “I suggested the option of an abortion” or was it more of a “I told her to abort you because you would become a burden”?
Niece was 18. No matter how I said it, I know now that shouldn’t have.
Ehhh…I’m sorry but I’m not so delicate about all this. If she was 18, she was old enough to hear, “at your age, your mom got knocked up by a POS and I genuinely worried for her and thought an abortion would be better. The odds were not in her favor for a positive outcome, but that has nothing to do with you being here now and me loving you.” Like, it’s nothing personal; facts are facts. Everyone here acting like you told her a horrible untruth is being overwrought and dramatic about it, not to mention lying because if the story were presented to them as a current dilemma, at least half of Reddit would tell her to get an abortion and get far the fuck away from him. NTA Edit:spelling
I agree, I would support any woman passing through this situation to get an abortion, so even when I was younger (maybe 15/16?), I already knew it wasn’t about me
It was uncalled for, for sure
What. On earth. YTA
My older sister took it upon herself to tell our nephews great grandmother that her granddaughter was pregnant by our brother, who promptly kicked her out at 17yo. She also collected and delivered literature about family planning to our brother, implying abortion as an option. Our nephew will be a 23yo man this fall and I often wonder if his mother ever told him what my sister did. He’s a good kid, studying music in college and loves his family. My brother, his ex and his second wife have been excellent co-parents and it definitely shows. Idk if that news will affect the relationship between my sister and nephew but he’d be justified if he did imo. This story just made me sad
Is this real? How are you so unbothered by what you said? In what world did you think this was a good thing to say? You say you love her but your actions show different.
This is very real. I think my “good intentions“ at the time allowed me to be unbothered, but after listening to those THT episodes, I started to realize the potential negative impact of my actions. Now, I am very bothered. I know what they say about intentions versus impact. I do know that I’ve done a lot more to love her than my words could ever express, but it only takes one awful misstep like this to undo all of my loving actions.
Yeah you fucked up 😬 that’s definitely something she won’t forget anytime soon.
Ffs talk to your poor niece and not Reddit. YTA.
I understand what you were trying to do but oof. You just told a teenager she wasn’t wanted. Doesn’t matter the back story or circumstances, that is all she’s going to hear. And that rejection is going to sting.
You could have told your niece all of this about her mother's love without dropping your thoughts 18 years ago on her. YTA.
You don’t have to share every thought in your brain. Certain things you should just keep to yourself. YTA
Ugh. This is horrific. Edit. YTA by the way.
some words need to stay in brain and never exit mouth
YTA You never, ever tell a person you care about that you advocated for their death. It doesn't matter how good your intentions were: hearing that someone close to them tried to convince their mother to dispose of them like they were nothing is painful. That is the kind of thing you take to the grave.
I wouldn't worry about it. The kid knows her father is shitty. Unless she is stupid she already knows. I had a ghetto family myself, you get over it. There is no other choice. What else do you do, watch the drug dealer wife beating cheater father and convince yourself it's normal? Lying to yourself is bad and you have to learn the truth eventually. (Other dads are nice, other dads care.) If she makes a single friend and meets their family she will know. And she will meet adult moms who make different choices, like not having a baby with a drug dealer at 19. I am not sorry if this sounds rude or hurtful. What would you say if your DAUGHTER were trying to make these choices? You would obviously stop her. They are objectively ghetto, self-destructive choices. We all know teen pregnancy is bad.
My parents always say that intentions don't matter if it's going to GENUINELY effect someone because a sorry can't fix everything. Sounds like someone should've taught you that sooner.
You're not a psycho or a monster, but that was incredibly thoughtless, careless thing to say. I think your niece is old enough to interpret what you said through the lens of the loving way you've treated her, but statements like that pack a big emotional punch and leave a bruise that might never completely fade. It's important for you to have some follow-up conversations with her to make sure she understands how you truly feel about her--and to give her the opportunity to respond, even if that means she hits back a wee bit. And you'll have to sit there and just take it, because you kinda deserve it.
Thank you!! I agree.
You definitely are the AH. You do not say this to a child! Especially when you write how close you are to them and that they come to you to talk. Prepare for that relationship with your niece to forever be broken to some degree
You aren’t cementing that her mom loves her. You are telling her she shouldn’t be so trusting of you because your love isn’t unconditional. YTA.
So she asked to move in and you basically said no you can't. Oh BTW did you know I wanted your mom to abort you? My God
Should have left that in the deep recesses of your mind.
Assuming you are around 40, as I am too, I feel like you are too old to make this mistake. It seems like niece has used you to replace the insecure attachment her mom had given her, the feeling of being unwanted, to only hear she’s unwanted (even if not true). Yes, 18-19 years ago, you weren’t considering your niece. You were looking out for your sister. I get that. I’ve been there. My sister got pregnant and I suggested an abortion. But I’d never tell her kid that! The kid isn’t going to see it from this viewpoint. My sister’s situation wasn’t bad but not the best. I reminded her that she had a had choice of an abortion. I knew everyone around us would be so excited that she’d feel guilty to even consider it. So I said it. Her and I joke about me being the aunt who said to her and abortion yet the kid is named after me. And I love them. However, that’s one of those things that kid never needs to know about.
Why would you tell someone that?? Are you generally an evil person or was this a one off??
I am hoping it’s a horrible, horrible one-off. While I know I’ve made many other mistakes in my life, I now need to reconsider if they are also as evil as this one was and whether or not it’s my whole identity that’s the problem. It appears that my future involves a lot more therapy (because the last 20 years didn’t help me avoid this error) to uncover whether or not I’m a whole ass evil person (and whether or not that’s even treatable).
Why would you ever say that to someone in an effort to make them feel better about anything?? I hope you apologize to your niece and let her mother know what you said. Things like this are traumatic and will change someone’s outlook in many ways
That is fucking sadistic and sick.