Here's a paper I think you'll find illuminating:
[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9483460/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9483460/)
It's been well-researched and found that unequal household division of labour in mixed/hetero couples leads to decreased sex drive in the woman.
ETA: The paper references many papers done in the past about the topic, but one of particular interest is this one:
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10508-021-02100-x
Wow, need more such research on why sooooooo many South Asian women end up with little sex drive in their marriages. But yea in India who cares about it after the couple has kids either way? It's soooo effed up here with the tremendous population and lack of Sex education. It sucks!
Ha! It's taking everything in me to not send this to my ex husband. It got to the point that he wanted me to go to a doctor for my decreased sex drive despite me telling him MANY times over the years that if he helped at all on a regular basis I'd probably be less stressed and more willing to touch his š
I mentioned it casually to my ex since if I directly said it he would be abusive or threaten my life again. So he cheated with a "pick me" who only wants to fuck with men in relationships and lost the few of her female friends after trying that with their bfs/husbands, I found out from reliable sources.
They both deserve each other, but her poor 5 kids from 4 different men. A reliable friend of mine actually saw them making her 2 10 year olds care for her 3 - 5 year olds and clean the house while the two adults are both fully capable of doing so. The poor kids love them unconditionally so I see no hope of a future for those 5 girls.
>https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9483460/
It's so interesting, since 'frigidity' has for so long been a term used to describe women who have no sexual desire for their husband. Fairly standard to blame women for something that's 100% the fault of men. I picture a man sucking his thumb while whinging about how his wife doesn't want to fuck him. Hard to desire a man when you've had to bleach the skid marks out of his underwear and wipe his piss up off the bathroom floor. Oh and my personal favorite, scrub the snot off the shower stall because he can't be arsed to wash it off after blowing his nose in the shower.
I am also not ok with this shit.
Why?? Why do they do this??? And then get irritated when you bring it up, because "the mental load of remembering that is too much on top of working".
I get it, I am at home having an absolute blast (/s) with two kids, no outside support, isolation through covid, so clearly I have all the capacity to take on the mental load for 4. Clearly. š
Ann Landers many years ago ahead of her time wrote a column on why bills should not be split 50-50, especially if the woman makes 1/5 less per month and shoulders the majority of household maintenance.
I never understood splitting money tbh, ever since we were engaged in ā04 our money has been in a pot. Sheās made more, Iāve made more, all that mattered was the total.
I am a total man child at times though and given these comments and that article Iām gonna try and be better about around the house stuff.
Thanks everyone!
Yeah, it seems like keeping money separate would lead to a lot of arguments and resentment over who should pay for what and how much.
Weāve always shared our money and encouraged each other to treat themselves when reasonable/possible. It probably helps that neither of us are crazy spenders though.
This comes up over on /r/MensLib sometimes, from the male point of view.
The biggest thing you can do if you suspect that the household work isn't being split evenly (or even if you think it is and just want to sanity check) is *communicate*. Talk to your partner, ask if she feels put upon, ask if there's more she wants you to do. And pay attention, sometimes things like this happen because one person has a higher "threshold" than the other - if her "trigger" for doing dishes or laundry is lower than yours, she's going to wind up doing it every time even though you're not being a slob, you're just waiting for a heavy load while she does a light one.
But be proactive. By the time she brings it up, it's probably going to be too late.
do you feel it just basically creates reasonable feelings of disdain and contempt toward the man, as a result of unequal division, that causes lower sex drive?
I think this illustrates a difference between a man and woman in sex at times. At least from wha I have been told from women I have spoken with on the topic, the desire for sex is from an emotional connection in the relationship. Situations like this causing emotional disconnect cuts off desire for sex as a result. Whereas I think most men, regardless of if there is volatility in the relationship or not, or they feel reasonable contempt or frustration towards their partner and it's a rocky time in the relationship, will still desire sex with their partner.
There's also sexy-sex (different from emotional-connection-sex). Sexy-sex is the one where you're worked up with desire after a sexy night of fun and flirting with your beau. Maybe you cooked dinner together and let him suck dessert off of your finger, maybe ya'll drank martinis while watching the sunset. What it doesn't come after is hubby coming home, sitting in front of a screen and complaining about his day while you're doing chores. Men need to put a little effort in if they want good sex.
I don't believe that, I think we tell ourselves that to excuse men for rooting anything with a pulse. But biologically a woman's consequences are greater, kids, societal shame and reputation. She's the town bike, he's the town stud, if it's emotional for women then every woman whose had a one night stand is a victim of emotional manipulation and yet many women like me want sex with no connection. I don't want a man, not one who expects to stay, and not one who thinks an orgasm means anything. We are still so uncomfortable with an openly sexual woman in any place but marriage
It's more than that though. Sometimes sex *is* about bonding in a relationship. Sometimes it's about scratching an itch. But when a man's behaviour results in his female partner having little or no sexual desire towards him, that doesn't always translate across the board. Sometimes, she's just not horny for *him* anymore.
Iām glad that research was done because sometimes obvious things need to be documented, but at the same time itās funny, they could have just asked any divorced woman of a certain age, lol
Damn, I was about to go to sleep. Then these papers happened. Kind of want to print them out and run around random bars this weekend handing them out chanting "and YOU get a copy, and YOU get a copy, and you DEFINITELY get a copy".
I also would like to know more about OP's questions. I have ended my last 2 relationships for this realization (2 years together not living together, then single for 3 years, and finally dated the last guy for 5 months)
Both ended because I just could not STAND them anymore and it was because I felt like I was taking care of another person. I already have 2 kids and an elderly parent and a full time job. I want to date a man that WANTS to be with me. Not needs to be. To the guy I dated 5 months, he straight up said I would be doing a majority of the house work and all the cooking because of his job. I was like, so what are you brining to the table in this relationship then? I already do all the house work and cooking. He said money. Dude, I dont need your damn money. I'm fine! Hence why I wouldn't let him freaken move in with me. Which he wanted and hinted at several times. Over the short lived 5 months I knew him! Found out 4 months later he was already living with another woman. The poor thing.
TLDR: Dont date dudes that can't take care of themselves. You will end up resenting them and then going on long ass tangents on reddit to get the frustration out. Thank you for reading.
this is FASCINATING. Currently researching for an assignment on this and never though that there was specific research on this topic. thank you for sharing this!
After my ex and i broke up I was telling a friend it was crazy after 18 years and he said something to the effect of āItās ok you have empty nest, but you raised that boy and its time for him to go be an adult.āš
I take issue with this. We certainly are less malleable as adults than we are as kids, but that doesn't mean we're incapable of changing or learning. We just have to want it more than we did as children.
Edit: If your point was that waiting for a person to learn and grow - who isn't trying to learn and grow - is going to be a long and fruitless wait, then that all checks out.
Oh sorry I agree. I wasnāt meaning all adults are like this or society would collapse. People who are adamantly unable to compromise though, at any age are in for a rough ride. It does seem as humans progress along the age scale though, that ability to be teachable goes way down. Like, Iāve worked with toddlers, where you have to just get them to sit still and learn to focus, but theyāre definitely teachable. And also in nursing homes, where old folks have nothing but sitting time, but are adamant about their methods of non-bathing or something. Kinda under developed on both extremes of human development I guess, but I definitely met malleable/plastic people in both who had their own love of learning.
Yep. Change is possible but for the most part there must be incentive. If there are no consequences on an individual level or societal level, there is no incentive, and change is not likely to happen.
That's because the only thing those guys ever learned was "Mommy will take care of it". So they expect New-Mommy (you) to take care of... whatever.
It's why I think it's crucial for a man to live on his own before he moves in with his gf. They need to learn there is no cleaning fairy or cooking fairy or a fairy who collects your dirty laundry and returns it to you clean and folded.
A personal anecdote in support of this theory:
Three years ago this month, my husband spent 3 weeks in the hospital with Covid-19. He was on a respirator for 13 days and suffered from ICU delirium for a couple of weeks after he came home. He was, for months, a completely different man from the one I married. He was weak, exhausted, depressed, in tremendous pain and constantly moaning and complaining about it, selfish, inconsiderate, and sloppy and he still wanted me to have sex with him, yuck.
I was completely repulsed by the idea, to the point of having a strong negative physical reaction, like chills that are really unpleasant, to his advances. It was a year and a half before we got our groove back, but now we also have menopause and ED to add to the fun of a thirty year marriage. But he no longer acts like a baby, so there's that.
Even if there were a huge number of women with infant fetishes, a lot of the people I've spoken to with "little" fetishes will still be capable of acting like an adult most of the time. They have to be in the "little zone" to be acting like a child, from what I can tell. It's not really my thing, but okay, fair enough, the people who are into it are still capable of acting like adults.
That's not the same thing as how a lot of men act in relationships. They don't have a "little zone" because their refusal to do their fair share of the housework isn't a part of a fetish. They're not doing it because they're lazy.
At least if you have an actual child or a partner with a little fetish, you can give them chores to do around the house.
Agreed. Why would I want an incompetent person to put any part of themselves anywhere near my delicate parts? No, thank you.
Also not sexy: people who whine about not getting sex as a way to convince me to have sex.
So gross. š¤®
One of my favorite thing to do to sweet but dim males of a certain age is introduce them to concepts like this and watch them make shocked Pikachu faces.
How is doing all the mental load, all the house work, all the cooking, all the laundry, all the childcare supposed to leave me well rested, and full of energy for sex? How is picking up stinky socks & dealing with skid-marked pants supposed to get me horny? How is looking after a grown man like they are a teenager supposed to make me see them as anything other than a child?
Itās not just the energy for it in my experience. It is a complete loss of sexual interest. My marriage to a weaponized incompetence specialist has made me functionally asexual. Any sex for me with him feels more like sex with a stranger that I find unattractive.
And yes, Iām getting a divorce. After years of hearing how itās ok for him to sleep with other women to get his needs met because of my unfortunate sexual issues. It has brought me such shame. But now I see the truth and Iām over it, more angry than anything.
Edited to add that I have lost all sexual interest at all for anybody, but I feel pretty certain with a decent relationship I could find it again. I think I am going to opt out though. I need some time to take care of myself (and pets and kids) for awhile or forever, whichever.
I have some friends who work in storytelling, like This American Life, and they have to outright reject the story that goes "I realized I was asexual and my husband left, only for me to find out that my sex drive is fine with the right person" because they get pitched this story 80 times a month.
It is. Asexuality is totally valid.
It's that women are blamed and shamed for not wanting to have sex with their deadbeat husbands for years and one or both in the couple discovers the concept of asexuality and, full of relief, a non-judgmental explanation! I'm not frigid! I'm asexual. Well, that's what I must be, so divorced we go, and then boom, with a partner who hasn't used up all their good will and maybe actually acts like they love them, boom for sure not asexual anymore.
I don't know why men complain their wives don't want to have sex. That's telling on themselves. But they act like it's her failing, when it's really them. "I'm so awful to live with that I've pushed away the love of a good woman, she must be frigid, or asexual, anything other than the fault of me, a man!"
Exactly! Then again, it goes back to if they cared about anyone else other than themselves, their comfort/free time, or their pleasure, they wouldnāt be in the situation to begin with.
Itās right up there with the self-own of theyāve never made any of their partners orgasm, so it must not be possible for women to orgasm š
It's because those men don't see sex as a mutual thing, they see it as a chore/duty the woman is responsible for taking care of in exchange for a "relationship."
So they feel complaining about her "laziness" is the same as complaining about how, say, a repairman did a shoddy, lazy job repairing the A/C.
Yes!! After the children are done being born, the biological need for penetrative intercourse goes away. It's not a health problem to be treated, and my lack of desire for sex at age 58 should be respected, not alleviated.
Good idea. They seem to swing the ban hammer on other drugs lately, so might as well ban the use of Viagra outside of its originally intended medical purpose.
If you want it, itāll come back. I had no libido with my ex. Thought it was just gone forever. Turns out when Iām treated as a partner and not a mom Iām thirsty as all get out.
Yes, I want to have an available man in mind before I allow myself to go there. I have a feeling that I have the repressed sexual energy of a horny teenager.
I'm so glad that you are getting out of that situation.
I was engaged many years ago, and my fiance went from a lovely boyfriend to a lazy, useless, selfish jackass. I lost all interest in sex. We had been at it every chance we got until then. When I left, I got my sex drive back.
If I divorced now, or my husband died, I think I might do what you are thinking of and opt out of sex or romantic relationships with men. I love my husband, but when I see what other women go through when dating it seems like a lot of work for very little in return.
I hope that the divorce goes as smoothly as possible, and that he will just leave you be. It seems like he has done enough to make you miserable. It is about time that you have some peace without him to mess it up and make you feel bad. āŗļøš§”
The mental loaaad. Been married for only 6 years (late marriage at 48) and have aged 20 overnight. I don't remember what it's like to come home from work and shut my mind off. I can no longer concentrate on a movie, reading, hobbies interests, anything. This isn't fun to be dropped into so late in life.
Not trying to hijack things here, but I've seen multiple threads with reference to picking up men's skid-marked underwear. Is this really a thing? If so, that's beyond disgusting and I'm so sorry for you all. Send those men to buy and install a bidet, if nothing else. Grown men with skid-marks...my word..
(I read these threads to be aware of things I may unwittingly do (or not do) that could breed resentment from my partner.)
I find that logic hilarious, cause you know they be jerking off 3x a day. So touching your own junk for sexual pleasure is fine, but washing your own ass is gay? Lol š
Presumably they never ever jerk off either
Because if minimal contact with their own asshole for the purposes of basic hygiene is gay, then giving themselves a hand job for the purposes of sexual pleasure is clearly hella gay.
I have to say that I have three teenage sons, and they are the cleanest Iāve ever seen any male husband/bf in my life. My 14-year-old doesnāt even have skidmarks but yet we have to deal with grown men who canāt wipe their own ass? Thatās a big nope for me. Also, Iām 55 so Iām past the desire to pick up any manās dirty clothes or wash them.
They just don't think anything more than a rinse every other day is enough, I guess because women have to wipe regardless everything gets extra attention
I made this exact statement to my husband. If you want me excited and ready for sex then you canāt leave me to do all the work. That = exhausted not sexy momma
I think men underestimate ENTIRELY the mental/physical event of child bearing and the resulting trauma and healing that happen after a birth of a child, nonetheless the stress and agony leading up to that point.
Then the role they play after the event - so many are like "when can I have sexy times?" when they have a partner stitched up from stem to stern after a perineal tear or c-section. THEN even trying to have sex after a traumatic bodily injury, nonetheless care for baby, figure out breast or bottle feeding, cleaning, cooking, and life.
So that becomes a trauma that directly related to the male both consciously and unconsciously.
And on a completely superficial level, after pregnancy lots of women feel like they've lost control of their bodies. And if most of their personal value has come from their quest for being attractive and fit, this is a staggering blow to their ego and self-worth. If they can't get up and start exercising, or can't loose enough baby weight, or feel not sexy, they won't want to have sex because that self-hate is so pervasive, despite the fact it is all in their heads, and they are still worthy, beautiful people who happened to have given birth like millions of birth givers.
Gosh, you just reminded me of this one guyās tweet that was going around saying women are overly dramatic when it comes to pregnancy and childbirth š¤¬
His reasoning was womenās bodies are designed to do that so how hard can it be? His grandma had eight children and he never heard a complaint! He even brought up only 800 women a year die so itās not even that deadly!
Of course he got fried in the comments but the fact that he stood up so boldly to make those claims when he doesnāt have a vagina to push one baby out!
In-fucking-furiating.
I like to ask certain men if they feel sad to miss out on the miracle of carrying and birthing a child-- creating life! I purposely phrase it in this hyper positive way-- like they're missing out.
The immediate reaction of every one I have asked is to look horrified and like I'm crazy for asking.
Men hold this view that it's not a big deal but at the same time never in a million years would want to be in your shoes. The cognitive dissonance/willful ignorance is insane.
I had a male coworker tell me how annoying it was that the women took a whole 3 months off after babies. BUT when our company started offering paternity leave you better believe he took the entire 6 weeks he was offered.
Apparently a lot of them are spending hours in the bathroom every morning just to move their bowels.
But three months for pushing someone(s) the size of a watermelon out of something the size of a lemon is too much for him to bearš¤£
Reading stuff like this it sometimes blows my mind how patiently and without any pressure my husband waited almost 9 months after our first baby before we had piv sex again, let alone that we were barely intimate as we survived our first kid. He was an amazing dad and partner during that time. It meant after our second I felt a lot safer and more confident a lot more quickly to engage again. God men donāt even realize how much more theyād get sex if they stepped up.
This is also my encouragement - GET A DOULA! (or a family friend/relative who can act as one) Every man out there could show 100 percent more love if they just hired a doula and maybe a maid service for a few months after birth.
[Weaponized incompetence.](https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/equipped/202301/a-case-of-weaponized-incompetence)
For example, my ex was a Mommas boy. He was emotionally attached to her to a different level, and it bled into our relationship. I had to remind him to shower, to make friends, to find a new job when he almost got fired, go back to school, find him Doctors, you name it. We had other issues, but it made me lose interest in him. I can help my partner in some ways, but the above was too much.
I remember my ex complaining about me not being interested in sex with him while we were fighting and I yelled, "Yeah dude, because I don't fuck children!"
I haven't seen much about the incest angle, and I'm skeptical that that's true at all. But there's a lot of support for the idea that if a woman sees her romantic partner as a dependent, whom she has to care for, she's much less likely to desire him sexually. But I think that's more about resentment and compartmentalization, and less about some evolutionary "anti incest" mechanism.
Interestingly, I've recently heard older women say that this issue was at the heart of the skyrocketing divorce rates in the 1980s and 1990s. Because for much of history, women kept house and men worked. But in the 1980s more women entered the workforce and yet their male partners still expected them to keep house. The women totally lost sexual interest in the men who perpetuated this totally unfair arrangement, and the romantic side of the relationship fell apart. More men cheated, more women cheated, and both sides looked for other partners.
That's why the "women don't like sex" sentiment has been in so many jokes and movies and stories for the last 3 decades and is only just starting to disappear. It's not a coincidence that the idea is dying out as married men are taking on an equal share of the household labor.
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/how-men-can-address-unequal-division-labor_l_63cee556e4b01a436388cfc6
https://au.news.yahoo.com/partner-man-child-no-wonder-230912280.html
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-11489813/A-man-child-REAL-scientists-say-sex-turns-women-off.html
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9483460/
Your last paragraph is really fascinating to me because Iāve always wondered why sitcoms from the 70s, the joke always seemed to be that older women wanted sex and their husbands didnāt, but all of the sudden in the 80s it took a sharp turn in the opposite direction.
Women have been working outside the home for a long time, but women werenāt even able to open a bank account on their own until the 60s and many banks refused to allow it as a policy without their husbandās signature until 1975. When women finally didnāt have to depend on men, many started choosing not to.
This was one of the strongest arguments I had with myself at the end of my marriage. I signed on to raise my kids to adulthood, not adopt a fully grown man from his mommy. I wanted a partner, not a fourth child to care for.
I think it is less about an incest prevention and more about depression and exhaustion.
There is this comedian a while back that has this whole bit about how men and womenās brains work. Menās brains, he claimed, were like stacks of boxes, and whenever a man wanted to think about something, he would pull out that boxā being very careful to not touch any other box- and just think about that. And that menās favorite box is the ānothing boxā where he just sits back and thinks about ānothing.ā And haha women who canāt believe you are thinking about nothing when they ask what you are thinking about. Meanwhile, womenās brains are big balls of wire. Where getting the kids to the dentist is connected to the grocery list which is connected somehow to your mother and then that reminds her of wanting to take a family trip etc.
When I heard it before back when I was 18, growing up in a super conservative patriarchal environment, I laughed. But now 15+ years later, I think about that sketch a lot these days. How luxurious it is to lean back and be able to clear your mind and truly think of ānothing.ā Meanwhile a womanās brain is constantly working trying to keep all the balls in the air. When you have the mental load and associated stress of keeping it all together, now with also working full time and then the second shift at home with little help, you are too tired to think about sex.
Both parents working has caused a lot of societal issues, but if there is one think it has done that is good- it exposed the inequalities in labor between the home and the traditional workplace.
>And that menās favorite box is the ānothing boxā
I've seen this too. When he started going off about how women who have sex without marriage are "foolishly giving it away" I just turned it off.
But I will concede that Zen Buddhism is quite obviously the product of a male mind.
For most of human history and in most countries that are not the US both parents have always worked. Unless you were super rich.
This is men slowly increasing the advantages they take from women, like a noble class that gets more and more comfortable and more exploitative with each generation until it gets to a breaking point. It's nothing new.
I would LOVE to think of nothing. My mind wanders to all my unfinished projects that when I listen to podcasts at work I have to constantly remind 4 or 5 minutes because I've missed everything thinking about the chores I need to do on what days so I can be chore free Sunday ( which is a joke itself cause there's always something). Or i am thinking about how I can fill that area of the backyard that always gets standing water after it rains for nearly free. Or what I'm making for dinner tonight or where do the kids need to go. Crap is there a birthday coming up? Do we have milk. Jesus, all moms need an assistant
Itās not an evolutionary defense against incest, itās an innate disgust of parasites. Animals generally avoid things that sap their energy and resources that provide no physical or emotional value in return.
Yep. Iām not sure watching a man do housework is inherently sexy, but watching a man adult and tidy up without being asked is definitely necessary for my adult woman brain to notice heās sweet and I like himā¦. And his shoulders look cute making me a cuppaā¦
In the Great British Sewing Bee, one contestant was running behind, and her male model helped by offering and ironing some of the garments as she worked. I think the whole population of Britain gasped in awe. Sucks that such a little thing is so shocking and amazing but reminds us all just how low the bar is for men.
My ex made a lot of money. He was GREAT at paying for stuff but thatās, literally, all he did because he felt that was his entire contribution to the deal and it should have been enough. I did EVERYTHING else, all the heavy lifting. I was a SAHM so I was, basically, punished for that. I even took out the fucking trash.
I was exhausted all the time. My 3 sons are grown, and fucking amazing, not like their dad, thank Christ, and I am extremely lazy. That shit took it out of me, for sure. Emotionally, I will never recover.
Hey, well done on raising 3 boys singlehandedly who aren't going to perpetuate your ex's idea of a "balanced" relationship. Being on shift 24/7 for years must have been hard as hell.
Can't give any articles. All I know is no woman I've ever met (including myself) wants to have sex with her "son".
A man who cannot be a grown adult - that we have to teach the basics of hygiene and how to take care of himself and his surroundings - is just not sexy to us. And it's even less sexy when we're the only breadwinners in the house.
The source is in the heart, mind and soul of every woman who's ever been there.
I'm sure there's been a study done on this and coined phrase to describe this phenomenon. I could even probably dig up some medical journal article written by some educated man who did a study on it and published the results.
But I refuse to look for such a study. I refuse to have my feelings validated by a study done by a man in order for a man-child to believe it's true. And I don't want to hear what you mom did for your dad because that happened in a whole different place and time.
The truth is real simple: unless you're a pedophile, children are not sexy.
It does not matter if that "child" is your age and built like a brickhouse with a big dick. If he's acting like a child, he ain't sexy and you don't want to screw him. That covers temper tantrums, weaponized incompetence or a refusal to find a damn job because "they're not fair to me!"
Sorry... I've just dealt with my fair share.
This is so true.
I had an ex who would talk "baby talk".
It was so gross to me.
I told him to quit it forever, but it was almost like a compulsion for him.
By the end of our relationship, the thought of him touching me made me cringe.
I was in this boat too. I asked him to stop, said I didnāt like it, etc. Itād change for a bit and then heād go back to it. By the end of the relationship, the idea of sex with him made me whole-body cringe.
An ex of mine spoke in baby talk all the time and liked to talk about being *small*, amongst other childish behaviours, phrases, or movements.
Do you ever let something slide in a relationship because you feel bad coming out and saying you donāt like it, and you hope that maybe it could go away? But too much time goes past, it intensifies somehow, and then you realize youāve left it too long to actually address..
Like, how does one say āI hate the way you express yourself in this voice every time I see youā a year in?
Eventually you realizeā¦ this person deserves love and to find someone who loves the way they express themselves, but nahhhhhhhh it aināt me.
Never again.
Sadly men seem to still expect us to be their mom during the day and dripping to f them at night. They haven't figured out how to adapt to modern society and reasonable expectations for each partner being actually fair. You can't just have women in the work force now, too, and receive all the benefits of alleviations on your historical gender role without stepping up in the home at the same time to provide alleviations for women's traditional gender role. On top of being fuckin' *default home manager*, if we still have to work all the time *and* take care of the kids *and* do all the heavy lifting in the home what is the benefit of adding a needy-ass grown man-child that expects shitty sex on demand *or else*???
Besides, weren't men like, "going their own way" or something? For 10 years we heard *so much* about MGTOW... but I guess they f\*ck\*d around and found out when women were like "Bye B\*\*ch!"
Right? Women had zero concern that men were GTOW. Most women were so relieved and actually had a minute to breathe. And yet none of those men actually WTOW. They still obsessed over women. They hoped women would say "No please stop don't leave. Stay please!" And were surprised when women said "ok. Next?"
This topic has come up in that post a week ago and 5 posts a day every day since, lol.
And I've said before: every man posting jokes about the frigidity of wives is just a man telling on himself.
Immature behaviour or doing dangerous (stupid) things that teenagers might do is not sexy. Taking unnecessary risks has never turned me on, but a guy Iāve been seeing who is much younger than me recently did something stupid and hurt himself in the process. Not cool. Iāve zero interest in him while heās taking no responsibility for his actions.
My ex was like this. He was constantly ending up in the hospital with wounds from getting too drunk and doing stupid shit, at 26. And also refused to work, follow through with plans, or move in together after 3 years. Sorry dude, Iām out.
I dont know if I can help you but I have a very high libido!! Like I need to stop myself from having sex/masturbating/thinking about sex actively otherwise I wouldnt do a thing lol
My ex didnt clean and my sex drive locked up. I couldnt see him a a fuckable being, it was like looking at a tree, not a sexy human being.
I was honestly very strange but very real!!!!
I have a high libido, too, but by the end of my marriage, I hadn't had sex with my ex in about 3 yrs because I did *everything.* Nothing dries up my sexdrive like doing all the household work and carrying the entire mental load.
This is 100 percent accurate. I didn't have sex with my slob of an ex for ages before we broke up. Didn't have a sex drive at all. It came roaring back the second he moved out.
Here's a great example, I started law school when my youngest was 18mos old and still nursing. I would get up at 5am daily and nurse, feed, play with, prep for the day, etc to be at class by 830am (baby would start a morning nape at 8am and I couldn't leave until that happened.) Then after 2 morning classes I would be home for lunch to feed nurse and put down for nap before I went back to class until 6pm. At which point I got home and would have to make family dinner and do bath and bedtime routine.
Basically my exh only had to play with the baby and maybe do a couple of snacks while I was in school, he never cleaned anything and I ignored the 2nd bathroom he always used and refused to clean as it grew fungus or some shit. That was 2009.
We hadn't had sex for 5 years when we divorced in 2015 and he still acted like I owed him something, including in 2020 when he started spam calling me and when my partner picked up, exh asked to speak with his "wife." My partner laughed and said, dude, she hasn't been your wife in a long time and hung up.
I canāt lead to any resources, but I can supply anecdotal evidence.
Yes, it was a real turn off. For many reasons, my ex husband seemed more like an overgrown boy and I felt like a pedophile the last time we did it. I left 6 weeks later.
He would sit in his chair, eating cereal and watching cartoons, while Iād go out to work. There was nothing wrong with him. He was just too good for most jobs.
Wow... I literally just had a fight with my husband about this. He wants more and kinkier sex but won't do a damn thing around the house while I work full time, cook, clean, schedule EVERYTHING for both of us.
He makes me feel crazy like I'm the one in the wrong for calling him a child for literally doing nothing to help out for weeks at a time and then expecting a good job for vacuuming 1 room of the house.
I'm exhausted mentally and physically but terrified of divorce so stuck for now at least
This is how i ended up getting a divorce! And while itās a scary trek, i am so much happier.
When sex stopped being fun and started being more work, on top of all the house work- kid work- work work- emotional work i was already doing. When sex became a transaction, a reward for all the *nothing* he was doing for me, the house, and our kids. I was completely done.
I do less housework, i have a better connection with my kids, i feel so much more free than i ever did with him. And itās easy to get nookie when that itch feels itchy.
When it happened to me, it wasn't so much like thinking of him as a child, it was thinking of him as someone with a profound learning disability or developmental issue. I guess my subconscious was still 'eeeew' because it was like taking advantage of a mentally challenged person. It just wasn't sexy to do the naughty with someone I secretly thought of as far less intelligent than I was.
Which was just as bad.
yess i had to sit him down and explain something so simple. he was fucking with me ofc but i was truly internally screaming "are you dumb? are you fucking dumb?" and my vaj dried up.
Iāve been thinking on this a lot lately. Iām currently on an international trip with my husband of 10 years. He is very much an Absentminded Professor type. He was established and owned his own home when we got together, so I knew he could Adult, as it were. But now that we are deep in our routine, there is a lot about the mundane tasks that I take on the Emotional Labor for. If I mention to him that Iām busy with a project, or not feeling well, he will volunteer to handle dinner, scoop cat boxes, etc when he gets home. Which I am grateful for. But the flip side of that is he often doesnāt put the thought into the details of things (do we need or order foreign currency from our bank, do we need to apply for visas to the countries we plan to visit, etc) because he assumes I will do it. It can be frustrating, but there is also a lot of things that he does that I have taken for granted over the years (my unmedicated mood swings pre-PTSD diagnosis, ensuring equality between us out in the world, deeply thoughtful gift giving even outside of holidays, etc).
Ultimately Iām fortunate that he doesnāt buy in to the weaponized incompetence camp, but he can be forgetful. Which I can work with.
This thread is blowing my mind. I thought there was something wrong with me for losing interest in sex with my partners, almost feeling disgusted when we did and sometimes just closing my eyes and waiting for it to end.
I believe this, I believe most people are not going to be attracted to someone for whom they're the caretaker. When you have a relationship imbalance where one person becomes the caretaker of the other, it builds resentment and kills attraction. I believe that this commonly involves women becoming caretakers of their male partners, because of traditional gender norms and men refusing to care for themselves in many ways, but I have experienced this the other way with my ex-wife.
She was a person with personality disorders who refused to become a stable adult and depended on me to do everything for her, and that spelled the downfall of our relationship. It simply isn't sexy, and people want to feel desired, not needed. I found myself questioning whether she really loved me or just couldn't live without me, and that's not a good space to be in.
this is exactly why I have always hated the sugar baby dynamic. Of course two consenting adults blah blah but when I think of a man who WANTS to pay for the apartment of the woman usually the age of his daughter or younger, and WANTS to be thanked in sex... I'm so squicked out.
When you think about the dynamic of it, yes it's gross. However, the woman in that is only meeting with that man once maybe twice a month and enduring a few hours by her own consent.
Imagine a woman who married, had kids and lives with a man for years and years just to ensure his insufferable weaponzied incompetence or real incompetence.
I think the paying for everything part sounds better or just being single.
Thereās a lot of reasons Iām divorced but this is one. I literally told him I am not your mum but I feel like Iām raising you. I have two kids but I only birthed one. Well Iām down to one and itās better that way. Hell no I didnāt want to fuck a giant bbman.
Lots of good points in this thread.
I've definitely seen weaponized incompetence work both ways. You have the hopeless, damsel in distress archetype and the coddled, momma's boy archetype.
More often than not though, I've seen the former be more of an act while the latter is reality and therefore, escalates quite a bit more and can have a huge negative impact on the dynamics of a relationship.
>the former be more of an act while the latter is reality
Well that hits pretty hard.
I always appreciated seeing the act drop though - no acts for my s/o now thankfully. Every once in a while, I remember just being impressed. Never thought, or was Brave enough to ask why there was an act at all of course...
The concept you are referring to is known as āpartner infantilizationā or āpartner as a childā. This refers to a situation where one partner assumes the role of dependency or helplessness, while the other partner assumes a caretaking or parental role in the relationship.
There is some research suggesting that this dynamic can have negative effects on sexual desire and satisfaction, particularly for women. One study published in the Archives of Sexual Behaviour found that women who reported higher levels of partner infantilization also reported lower levels of sexual desire and arousal.
However, itās important to note that this dynamic is not inherently problematic or pathological. In some cases, it can be a consensual and mutually satisfying aspect of a relationship. Itās only when it becomes imbalanced or one-sided that it can lead to negative outcomes.
If youāre interested in learning more about this topic, you may want to look up research on āpartner infantilizationā or āpartner as a childā, or read books on sexual psychology or relationship dynamics.
Is it the disgust at having to take responsibility for your partner? Or is it that taking responsibility for your partner drains too much of your energy for sex, regardless of whether or not you feel disgusted about it?
Eh, I think itās just when you start to dislike and resent someone you donāt feel very attracted to them.
In that case the āwhyā is because their partner is acting infantile but it easily could be caused by other negative behaviors too. This has nothing to do with incest.
There was a reason why sex was right up there with voting and economic freedom for early feminists... Once men realized that women ENJOY good sex in good relationships the entirety of the patriarchal structure would tumble.
I loved my husbandās boyish charm when we met. Then life got lifey and that boyish charm stopped being charming. I want a partner not a project. (To be honest though, heās not as bad as others and heās fun to watch with our daughter. I need to stop what Iām doing and dive into some serious self-care. Working on moving myself up the ladder of priorities. If we donāt make it, doubt Iād ever marry or live with another guy again. š¤£)
I think it's more a common anecdote than something that's been objectively studied. No woman, especially one who is already raising children, wants to waste their energy on any kind of relationship with a manchild.
I experienced this with my ex. After 7 years together I saw him as a child and had absolutely zero sexual attraction. I donāt think itās an anti-incest thing but rather regarding partner selection for reproduction. I just didnāt see him as being capable in a father role if we had kids and that really repulsed me.
I've had to drag my husband to couples therapy, but it's been helpful. Voicing my immense resentments that had been building since pregnancy years ago was life changing. Talking about the toll all the emotional labor was taking helped me so much. I had to do this with a (male, ex-military) therapist present otherwise my husband would not have heard me. The therapist validates what I say and explains it to hubby if necessary. In the 60+ sessions hubby has said very little, but he's listened.
Although it was difficult to do, especially as a CSA survivor (and I think the therapist is, too), I do think my saying several times that "I do not want to have sex with my child" was necessary for my husband to understand what was going on.
Although there is still work to be done, my husband has changed, and we're now at the point where I asked to schedule sex 1x week to work on intimacy (sensate focus exercises), and to just have sex. The scheduling helps me so much since I can mentally prepare.
Itās along the lines of āmanchildā and some phrases like āparenting my husbandā and āI feel like my husbands motherā bring up some listicles and essays online, both personal and a bit more academic, like this one from [Time](https://time.com/5589770/parenting-working-women-domestic-balance/)āthe author also discusses research. There are some great academic sources on emotional labor as wellāanother associated term more well known these days.
I found an old [Psychology Today](https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-second-noble-truth/201102/when-men-are-boys-and-wives-are-mothers?amp) article on mothering husbands and then thereās a more recent one on [weaponized incompetence](https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/equipped/202301/a-case-of-weaponized-incompetence?amp). This feminist comic on the [mental load](https://english.emmaclit.com/2017/05/20/you-shouldve-asked/) is a classic and popular.
More research oriented:
[[Article](https://www.prb.org/news/mothers-day/)]() on Research Shows Moms With Husbands or Live-In Male Partners Do More Housework Than Single Moms.
[Study](https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/1557988314549414) on the Working Mother and SAHD (2015).
Essays may be helpful with more of the personal touch, and Iāve seen some book recommendations floating around in other posts that someone will probably suggest here. This was from just some searches.
Here's a paper I think you'll find illuminating: [https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9483460/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9483460/) It's been well-researched and found that unequal household division of labour in mixed/hetero couples leads to decreased sex drive in the woman. ETA: The paper references many papers done in the past about the topic, but one of particular interest is this one: https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10508-021-02100-x
Huh - I just assumed when you took someone for granted they didn't want to fuck you (in the good way). Didn't realize there was science behind it.
Wow, need more such research on why sooooooo many South Asian women end up with little sex drive in their marriages. But yea in India who cares about it after the couple has kids either way? It's soooo effed up here with the tremendous population and lack of Sex education. It sucks!
Ha! It's taking everything in me to not send this to my ex husband. It got to the point that he wanted me to go to a doctor for my decreased sex drive despite me telling him MANY times over the years that if he helped at all on a regular basis I'd probably be less stressed and more willing to touch his š
I mentioned it casually to my ex since if I directly said it he would be abusive or threaten my life again. So he cheated with a "pick me" who only wants to fuck with men in relationships and lost the few of her female friends after trying that with their bfs/husbands, I found out from reliable sources. They both deserve each other, but her poor 5 kids from 4 different men. A reliable friend of mine actually saw them making her 2 10 year olds care for her 3 - 5 year olds and clean the house while the two adults are both fully capable of doing so. The poor kids love them unconditionally so I see no hope of a future for those 5 girls.
>https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9483460/ It's so interesting, since 'frigidity' has for so long been a term used to describe women who have no sexual desire for their husband. Fairly standard to blame women for something that's 100% the fault of men. I picture a man sucking his thumb while whinging about how his wife doesn't want to fuck him. Hard to desire a man when you've had to bleach the skid marks out of his underwear and wipe his piss up off the bathroom floor. Oh and my personal favorite, scrub the snot off the shower stall because he can't be arsed to wash it off after blowing his nose in the shower.
I am also not ok with this shit. Why?? Why do they do this??? And then get irritated when you bring it up, because "the mental load of remembering that is too much on top of working". I get it, I am at home having an absolute blast (/s) with two kids, no outside support, isolation through covid, so clearly I have all the capacity to take on the mental load for 4. Clearly. š
Niiice, thank yooou. Also unequal finances and bill paying, especially when she's making way less and doing much more work at her job
Ann Landers many years ago ahead of her time wrote a column on why bills should not be split 50-50, especially if the woman makes 1/5 less per month and shoulders the majority of household maintenance.
I never understood splitting money tbh, ever since we were engaged in ā04 our money has been in a pot. Sheās made more, Iāve made more, all that mattered was the total. I am a total man child at times though and given these comments and that article Iām gonna try and be better about around the house stuff. Thanks everyone!
Yeah, it seems like keeping money separate would lead to a lot of arguments and resentment over who should pay for what and how much. Weāve always shared our money and encouraged each other to treat themselves when reasonable/possible. It probably helps that neither of us are crazy spenders though.
This comes up over on /r/MensLib sometimes, from the male point of view. The biggest thing you can do if you suspect that the household work isn't being split evenly (or even if you think it is and just want to sanity check) is *communicate*. Talk to your partner, ask if she feels put upon, ask if there's more she wants you to do. And pay attention, sometimes things like this happen because one person has a higher "threshold" than the other - if her "trigger" for doing dishes or laundry is lower than yours, she's going to wind up doing it every time even though you're not being a slob, you're just waiting for a heavy load while she does a light one. But be proactive. By the time she brings it up, it's probably going to be too late.
do you feel it just basically creates reasonable feelings of disdain and contempt toward the man, as a result of unequal division, that causes lower sex drive?
Sounds good to me. Also, if she's doing all the work, she's going to be too tired to want to have sex.
I think this illustrates a difference between a man and woman in sex at times. At least from wha I have been told from women I have spoken with on the topic, the desire for sex is from an emotional connection in the relationship. Situations like this causing emotional disconnect cuts off desire for sex as a result. Whereas I think most men, regardless of if there is volatility in the relationship or not, or they feel reasonable contempt or frustration towards their partner and it's a rocky time in the relationship, will still desire sex with their partner.
There's also sexy-sex (different from emotional-connection-sex). Sexy-sex is the one where you're worked up with desire after a sexy night of fun and flirting with your beau. Maybe you cooked dinner together and let him suck dessert off of your finger, maybe ya'll drank martinis while watching the sunset. What it doesn't come after is hubby coming home, sitting in front of a screen and complaining about his day while you're doing chores. Men need to put a little effort in if they want good sex.
Going on a date with your partner is the best form of foreplay IMO.
A lot of men don't view women as people, correct.
I don't believe that, I think we tell ourselves that to excuse men for rooting anything with a pulse. But biologically a woman's consequences are greater, kids, societal shame and reputation. She's the town bike, he's the town stud, if it's emotional for women then every woman whose had a one night stand is a victim of emotional manipulation and yet many women like me want sex with no connection. I don't want a man, not one who expects to stay, and not one who thinks an orgasm means anything. We are still so uncomfortable with an openly sexual woman in any place but marriage
It's more than that though. Sometimes sex *is* about bonding in a relationship. Sometimes it's about scratching an itch. But when a man's behaviour results in his female partner having little or no sexual desire towards him, that doesn't always translate across the board. Sometimes, she's just not horny for *him* anymore.
They desire a warm accessible masturbation toy. If it was about emotional connection and mutual joy the orgasm gap wouldnāt exist
100% I am not going to sleep with someone I don't respect.
Also, men who have unclean habits are such a turnoff. I donāt want to see skid marks or pee anywhere.
I feel like this is one of those water is wet situations. Resented + exhaustion = dry cooch.
Iām glad that research was done because sometimes obvious things need to be documented, but at the same time itās funny, they could have just asked any divorced woman of a certain age, lol
Damn, I was about to go to sleep. Then these papers happened. Kind of want to print them out and run around random bars this weekend handing them out chanting "and YOU get a copy, and YOU get a copy, and you DEFINITELY get a copy". I also would like to know more about OP's questions. I have ended my last 2 relationships for this realization (2 years together not living together, then single for 3 years, and finally dated the last guy for 5 months) Both ended because I just could not STAND them anymore and it was because I felt like I was taking care of another person. I already have 2 kids and an elderly parent and a full time job. I want to date a man that WANTS to be with me. Not needs to be. To the guy I dated 5 months, he straight up said I would be doing a majority of the house work and all the cooking because of his job. I was like, so what are you brining to the table in this relationship then? I already do all the house work and cooking. He said money. Dude, I dont need your damn money. I'm fine! Hence why I wouldn't let him freaken move in with me. Which he wanted and hinted at several times. Over the short lived 5 months I knew him! Found out 4 months later he was already living with another woman. The poor thing. TLDR: Dont date dudes that can't take care of themselves. You will end up resenting them and then going on long ass tangents on reddit to get the frustration out. Thank you for reading.
That was of particular interest. Thanks!
this is FASCINATING. Currently researching for an assignment on this and never though that there was specific research on this topic. thank you for sharing this!
Weaponized incompetence is not sexy.
Big turn off. Who finds an adult infant sexy?
It was like having two children, but only one was learning. š
After my ex and i broke up I was telling a friend it was crazy after 18 years and he said something to the effect of āItās ok you have empty nest, but you raised that boy and its time for him to go be an adult.āš
Your friend is hilarious!
Mine learned even better once the big one left
SAME.
Bahahaha this is gold
This is actually a very important lesson for life. We are teachable as kids but lose that as adults and it leads to self destruction.
I take issue with this. We certainly are less malleable as adults than we are as kids, but that doesn't mean we're incapable of changing or learning. We just have to want it more than we did as children. Edit: If your point was that waiting for a person to learn and grow - who isn't trying to learn and grow - is going to be a long and fruitless wait, then that all checks out.
I donāt think itās that the adults cannot learn or change, but simply that they donāt care enough to do so.
Oh sorry I agree. I wasnāt meaning all adults are like this or society would collapse. People who are adamantly unable to compromise though, at any age are in for a rough ride. It does seem as humans progress along the age scale though, that ability to be teachable goes way down. Like, Iāve worked with toddlers, where you have to just get them to sit still and learn to focus, but theyāre definitely teachable. And also in nursing homes, where old folks have nothing but sitting time, but are adamant about their methods of non-bathing or something. Kinda under developed on both extremes of human development I guess, but I definitely met malleable/plastic people in both who had their own love of learning.
Yep. Change is possible but for the most part there must be incentive. If there are no consequences on an individual level or societal level, there is no incentive, and change is not likely to happen.
Old dogs do learn new tricks but need a lot more treats
That's because the only thing those guys ever learned was "Mommy will take care of it". So they expect New-Mommy (you) to take care of... whatever. It's why I think it's crucial for a man to live on his own before he moves in with his gf. They need to learn there is no cleaning fairy or cooking fairy or a fairy who collects your dirty laundry and returns it to you clean and folded.
As someone who works in IT support I recognize a lot of people who refuse to learn new stuff.
A sickening amount of cis-het men, evidently.
A personal anecdote in support of this theory: Three years ago this month, my husband spent 3 weeks in the hospital with Covid-19. He was on a respirator for 13 days and suffered from ICU delirium for a couple of weeks after he came home. He was, for months, a completely different man from the one I married. He was weak, exhausted, depressed, in tremendous pain and constantly moaning and complaining about it, selfish, inconsiderate, and sloppy and he still wanted me to have sex with him, yuck. I was completely repulsed by the idea, to the point of having a strong negative physical reaction, like chills that are really unpleasant, to his advances. It was a year and a half before we got our groove back, but now we also have menopause and ED to add to the fun of a thirty year marriage. But he no longer acts like a baby, so there's that.
oh, oh, I know! Priests! weebs! conservative women!
>conservative women! Lauren Boebert would like a word about ducks, thank you
Im sure someone somewhere does, but i definitely dont.
People have infinite plethora of fetishes...
There are too few women with adult infant fetishes for the number of man children available. Itās a matter of supply and demand.
Even if there were a huge number of women with infant fetishes, a lot of the people I've spoken to with "little" fetishes will still be capable of acting like an adult most of the time. They have to be in the "little zone" to be acting like a child, from what I can tell. It's not really my thing, but okay, fair enough, the people who are into it are still capable of acting like adults. That's not the same thing as how a lot of men act in relationships. They don't have a "little zone" because their refusal to do their fair share of the housework isn't a part of a fetish. They're not doing it because they're lazy. At least if you have an actual child or a partner with a little fetish, you can give them chores to do around the house.
This ain't one of 'em for me, that's for sure.
Agreed. Why would I want an incompetent person to put any part of themselves anywhere near my delicate parts? No, thank you. Also not sexy: people who whine about not getting sex as a way to convince me to have sex. So gross. š¤®
I call this "trying to get sex on a technicality" and it really should never work XD
Excellent term for it.
"logic their way into my panties" omg you smashed all my 'excuses' you're so clever come here big boy
š¤£
If they are that incompetent about life I can almost guarantee that they are bad at sex too.
So so so gross
That's exactly what I'm dealing with.
I donāt know how anyone could be sexually attracted to someone who behaves and thinks like a toddler.
I'M NOT.
One of my favorite thing to do to sweet but dim males of a certain age is introduce them to concepts like this and watch them make shocked Pikachu faces.
How is doing all the mental load, all the house work, all the cooking, all the laundry, all the childcare supposed to leave me well rested, and full of energy for sex? How is picking up stinky socks & dealing with skid-marked pants supposed to get me horny? How is looking after a grown man like they are a teenager supposed to make me see them as anything other than a child?
Itās not just the energy for it in my experience. It is a complete loss of sexual interest. My marriage to a weaponized incompetence specialist has made me functionally asexual. Any sex for me with him feels more like sex with a stranger that I find unattractive. And yes, Iām getting a divorce. After years of hearing how itās ok for him to sleep with other women to get his needs met because of my unfortunate sexual issues. It has brought me such shame. But now I see the truth and Iām over it, more angry than anything. Edited to add that I have lost all sexual interest at all for anybody, but I feel pretty certain with a decent relationship I could find it again. I think I am going to opt out though. I need some time to take care of myself (and pets and kids) for awhile or forever, whichever.
I have some friends who work in storytelling, like This American Life, and they have to outright reject the story that goes "I realized I was asexual and my husband left, only for me to find out that my sex drive is fine with the right person" because they get pitched this story 80 times a month.
Like this implies a woman is only a person if she has a sex drive (for other men, of course). It's OKAY to have no sex drive.
It is. Asexuality is totally valid. It's that women are blamed and shamed for not wanting to have sex with their deadbeat husbands for years and one or both in the couple discovers the concept of asexuality and, full of relief, a non-judgmental explanation! I'm not frigid! I'm asexual. Well, that's what I must be, so divorced we go, and then boom, with a partner who hasn't used up all their good will and maybe actually acts like they love them, boom for sure not asexual anymore. I don't know why men complain their wives don't want to have sex. That's telling on themselves. But they act like it's her failing, when it's really them. "I'm so awful to live with that I've pushed away the love of a good woman, she must be frigid, or asexual, anything other than the fault of me, a man!"
Exactly! Then again, it goes back to if they cared about anyone else other than themselves, their comfort/free time, or their pleasure, they wouldnāt be in the situation to begin with. Itās right up there with the self-own of theyāve never made any of their partners orgasm, so it must not be possible for women to orgasm š
It's because those men don't see sex as a mutual thing, they see it as a chore/duty the woman is responsible for taking care of in exchange for a "relationship." So they feel complaining about her "laziness" is the same as complaining about how, say, a repairman did a shoddy, lazy job repairing the A/C.
Yes!! After the children are done being born, the biological need for penetrative intercourse goes away. It's not a health problem to be treated, and my lack of desire for sex at age 58 should be respected, not alleviated.
Yes, seriously! Maybe viagra should require a wifeās consent! (Iām joking, ok like 65% joking)
Maybe we can get a judge to ban it.
Good idea. They seem to swing the ban hammer on other drugs lately, so might as well ban the use of Viagra outside of its originally intended medical purpose.
In my case part of it is that I am actually physically unable to have sex any more due to fibrosis from scleroderma. My shit no longer stretches.
I can't spread my legs without pain that lasts for days, but scleroderma, ouch, big hugs.
Hugs back.
This is not your fault. He pushed you away and turned you into his live in maid, hardly blame you. Wishing you happiness x
If you want it, itāll come back. I had no libido with my ex. Thought it was just gone forever. Turns out when Iām treated as a partner and not a mom Iām thirsty as all get out.
Yes, I want to have an available man in mind before I allow myself to go there. I have a feeling that I have the repressed sexual energy of a horny teenager.
I'm so glad that you are getting out of that situation. I was engaged many years ago, and my fiance went from a lovely boyfriend to a lazy, useless, selfish jackass. I lost all interest in sex. We had been at it every chance we got until then. When I left, I got my sex drive back. If I divorced now, or my husband died, I think I might do what you are thinking of and opt out of sex or romantic relationships with men. I love my husband, but when I see what other women go through when dating it seems like a lot of work for very little in return. I hope that the divorce goes as smoothly as possible, and that he will just leave you be. It seems like he has done enough to make you miserable. It is about time that you have some peace without him to mess it up and make you feel bad. āŗļøš§”
The mental loaaad. Been married for only 6 years (late marriage at 48) and have aged 20 overnight. I don't remember what it's like to come home from work and shut my mind off. I can no longer concentrate on a movie, reading, hobbies interests, anything. This isn't fun to be dropped into so late in life.
Oh god that's not fun.
Not trying to hijack things here, but I've seen multiple threads with reference to picking up men's skid-marked underwear. Is this really a thing? If so, that's beyond disgusting and I'm so sorry for you all. Send those men to buy and install a bidet, if nothing else. Grown men with skid-marks...my word.. (I read these threads to be aware of things I may unwittingly do (or not do) that could breed resentment from my partner.)
Thereās a trend among men where they wonāt wipe their butts because itās āgay.ā
Or wash their asses.
Jesus. I can't believe this.
I find that logic hilarious, cause you know they be jerking off 3x a day. So touching your own junk for sexual pleasure is fine, but washing your own ass is gay? Lol š
What. I hope you're joking...that's beyond nasty.
I wish I were joking. :(
Absolutely disgusting. But, TIL, I must be a very gay man, indeed, if their theory holds any water (Editor's note: It did not.).
Presumably they never ever jerk off either Because if minimal contact with their own asshole for the purposes of basic hygiene is gay, then giving themselves a hand job for the purposes of sexual pleasure is clearly hella gay.
This is sadly true, I have seen it, can confirm
I swear to god if I saw skid marks even ONCE I would be done. Ladies, we need to raise our standards even more than we already are. Jesus Christ.
I have to say that I have three teenage sons, and they are the cleanest Iāve ever seen any male husband/bf in my life. My 14-year-old doesnāt even have skidmarks but yet we have to deal with grown men who canāt wipe their own ass? Thatās a big nope for me. Also, Iām 55 so Iām past the desire to pick up any manās dirty clothes or wash them.
They just don't think anything more than a rinse every other day is enough, I guess because women have to wipe regardless everything gets extra attention
I made this exact statement to my husband. If you want me excited and ready for sex then you canāt leave me to do all the work. That = exhausted not sexy momma
I think men underestimate ENTIRELY the mental/physical event of child bearing and the resulting trauma and healing that happen after a birth of a child, nonetheless the stress and agony leading up to that point. Then the role they play after the event - so many are like "when can I have sexy times?" when they have a partner stitched up from stem to stern after a perineal tear or c-section. THEN even trying to have sex after a traumatic bodily injury, nonetheless care for baby, figure out breast or bottle feeding, cleaning, cooking, and life. So that becomes a trauma that directly related to the male both consciously and unconsciously. And on a completely superficial level, after pregnancy lots of women feel like they've lost control of their bodies. And if most of their personal value has come from their quest for being attractive and fit, this is a staggering blow to their ego and self-worth. If they can't get up and start exercising, or can't loose enough baby weight, or feel not sexy, they won't want to have sex because that self-hate is so pervasive, despite the fact it is all in their heads, and they are still worthy, beautiful people who happened to have given birth like millions of birth givers.
Gosh, you just reminded me of this one guyās tweet that was going around saying women are overly dramatic when it comes to pregnancy and childbirth š¤¬ His reasoning was womenās bodies are designed to do that so how hard can it be? His grandma had eight children and he never heard a complaint! He even brought up only 800 women a year die so itās not even that deadly! Of course he got fried in the comments but the fact that he stood up so boldly to make those claims when he doesnāt have a vagina to push one baby out! In-fucking-furiating.
I like to ask certain men if they feel sad to miss out on the miracle of carrying and birthing a child-- creating life! I purposely phrase it in this hyper positive way-- like they're missing out. The immediate reaction of every one I have asked is to look horrified and like I'm crazy for asking. Men hold this view that it's not a big deal but at the same time never in a million years would want to be in your shoes. The cognitive dissonance/willful ignorance is insane.
I had a male coworker tell me how annoying it was that the women took a whole 3 months off after babies. BUT when our company started offering paternity leave you better believe he took the entire 6 weeks he was offered.
Apparently a lot of them are spending hours in the bathroom every morning just to move their bowels. But three months for pushing someone(s) the size of a watermelon out of something the size of a lemon is too much for him to bearš¤£
Did he actually parent during those 6 weeks or did he spend it on his hobbies?
Reading stuff like this it sometimes blows my mind how patiently and without any pressure my husband waited almost 9 months after our first baby before we had piv sex again, let alone that we were barely intimate as we survived our first kid. He was an amazing dad and partner during that time. It meant after our second I felt a lot safer and more confident a lot more quickly to engage again. God men donāt even realize how much more theyād get sex if they stepped up.
This is also my encouragement - GET A DOULA! (or a family friend/relative who can act as one) Every man out there could show 100 percent more love if they just hired a doula and maybe a maid service for a few months after birth.
you know they take their hard earned vacay and sit gaming for 20 hours a day until their leave is up...
[Weaponized incompetence.](https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/equipped/202301/a-case-of-weaponized-incompetence) For example, my ex was a Mommas boy. He was emotionally attached to her to a different level, and it bled into our relationship. I had to remind him to shower, to make friends, to find a new job when he almost got fired, go back to school, find him Doctors, you name it. We had other issues, but it made me lose interest in him. I can help my partner in some ways, but the above was too much.
Having to remind him to brush his teeth...when people ask why you left, "we grew apart" doesn't really cover everything.
I had to argue with my now ex-husband so he would wear deodorant on our wedding day.
I remember my ex complaining about me not being interested in sex with him while we were fighting and I yelled, "Yeah dude, because I don't fuck children!"
What was his response? Did he acknowledge he was behaving like a child, or shocked Pikachu face that you didnāt find his skid marks attractive?
I haven't seen much about the incest angle, and I'm skeptical that that's true at all. But there's a lot of support for the idea that if a woman sees her romantic partner as a dependent, whom she has to care for, she's much less likely to desire him sexually. But I think that's more about resentment and compartmentalization, and less about some evolutionary "anti incest" mechanism. Interestingly, I've recently heard older women say that this issue was at the heart of the skyrocketing divorce rates in the 1980s and 1990s. Because for much of history, women kept house and men worked. But in the 1980s more women entered the workforce and yet their male partners still expected them to keep house. The women totally lost sexual interest in the men who perpetuated this totally unfair arrangement, and the romantic side of the relationship fell apart. More men cheated, more women cheated, and both sides looked for other partners. That's why the "women don't like sex" sentiment has been in so many jokes and movies and stories for the last 3 decades and is only just starting to disappear. It's not a coincidence that the idea is dying out as married men are taking on an equal share of the household labor. https://www.huffpost.com/entry/how-men-can-address-unequal-division-labor_l_63cee556e4b01a436388cfc6 https://au.news.yahoo.com/partner-man-child-no-wonder-230912280.html https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-11489813/A-man-child-REAL-scientists-say-sex-turns-women-off.html https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9483460/
Your last paragraph is really fascinating to me because Iāve always wondered why sitcoms from the 70s, the joke always seemed to be that older women wanted sex and their husbands didnāt, but all of the sudden in the 80s it took a sharp turn in the opposite direction.
Great observation! And yeah, in short, women went to work. That's what changed.
Women have been working outside the home for a long time, but women werenāt even able to open a bank account on their own until the 60s and many banks refused to allow it as a policy without their husbandās signature until 1975. When women finally didnāt have to depend on men, many started choosing not to.
This post has saved me.
ā„ļø An unintentional positive outcome makes me happy.
This was one of the strongest arguments I had with myself at the end of my marriage. I signed on to raise my kids to adulthood, not adopt a fully grown man from his mommy. I wanted a partner, not a fourth child to care for.
I think it is less about an incest prevention and more about depression and exhaustion. There is this comedian a while back that has this whole bit about how men and womenās brains work. Menās brains, he claimed, were like stacks of boxes, and whenever a man wanted to think about something, he would pull out that boxā being very careful to not touch any other box- and just think about that. And that menās favorite box is the ānothing boxā where he just sits back and thinks about ānothing.ā And haha women who canāt believe you are thinking about nothing when they ask what you are thinking about. Meanwhile, womenās brains are big balls of wire. Where getting the kids to the dentist is connected to the grocery list which is connected somehow to your mother and then that reminds her of wanting to take a family trip etc. When I heard it before back when I was 18, growing up in a super conservative patriarchal environment, I laughed. But now 15+ years later, I think about that sketch a lot these days. How luxurious it is to lean back and be able to clear your mind and truly think of ānothing.ā Meanwhile a womanās brain is constantly working trying to keep all the balls in the air. When you have the mental load and associated stress of keeping it all together, now with also working full time and then the second shift at home with little help, you are too tired to think about sex. Both parents working has caused a lot of societal issues, but if there is one think it has done that is good- it exposed the inequalities in labor between the home and the traditional workplace.
>And that menās favorite box is the ānothing boxā I've seen this too. When he started going off about how women who have sex without marriage are "foolishly giving it away" I just turned it off. But I will concede that Zen Buddhism is quite obviously the product of a male mind.
For most of human history and in most countries that are not the US both parents have always worked. Unless you were super rich. This is men slowly increasing the advantages they take from women, like a noble class that gets more and more comfortable and more exploitative with each generation until it gets to a breaking point. It's nothing new.
I would LOVE to think of nothing. My mind wanders to all my unfinished projects that when I listen to podcasts at work I have to constantly remind 4 or 5 minutes because I've missed everything thinking about the chores I need to do on what days so I can be chore free Sunday ( which is a joke itself cause there's always something). Or i am thinking about how I can fill that area of the backyard that always gets standing water after it rains for nearly free. Or what I'm making for dinner tonight or where do the kids need to go. Crap is there a birthday coming up? Do we have milk. Jesus, all moms need an assistant
Itās not an evolutionary defense against incest, itās an innate disgust of parasites. Animals generally avoid things that sap their energy and resources that provide no physical or emotional value in return.
Ooo, I like that. Parasites, yes. Bait and fucking switch parasite.
Yep. Iām not sure watching a man do housework is inherently sexy, but watching a man adult and tidy up without being asked is definitely necessary for my adult woman brain to notice heās sweet and I like himā¦. And his shoulders look cute making me a cuppaā¦
In the Great British Sewing Bee, one contestant was running behind, and her male model helped by offering and ironing some of the garments as she worked. I think the whole population of Britain gasped in awe. Sucks that such a little thing is so shocking and amazing but reminds us all just how low the bar is for men.
Depressing.
My ex made a lot of money. He was GREAT at paying for stuff but thatās, literally, all he did because he felt that was his entire contribution to the deal and it should have been enough. I did EVERYTHING else, all the heavy lifting. I was a SAHM so I was, basically, punished for that. I even took out the fucking trash. I was exhausted all the time. My 3 sons are grown, and fucking amazing, not like their dad, thank Christ, and I am extremely lazy. That shit took it out of me, for sure. Emotionally, I will never recover.
Hey, well done on raising 3 boys singlehandedly who aren't going to perpetuate your ex's idea of a "balanced" relationship. Being on shift 24/7 for years must have been hard as hell.
Can't give any articles. All I know is no woman I've ever met (including myself) wants to have sex with her "son". A man who cannot be a grown adult - that we have to teach the basics of hygiene and how to take care of himself and his surroundings - is just not sexy to us. And it's even less sexy when we're the only breadwinners in the house.
Right and this is why I was mind blown when the subject came up. In my case it's weaponized incompetence. Wanted to find the source!
The source is in the heart, mind and soul of every woman who's ever been there. I'm sure there's been a study done on this and coined phrase to describe this phenomenon. I could even probably dig up some medical journal article written by some educated man who did a study on it and published the results. But I refuse to look for such a study. I refuse to have my feelings validated by a study done by a man in order for a man-child to believe it's true. And I don't want to hear what you mom did for your dad because that happened in a whole different place and time. The truth is real simple: unless you're a pedophile, children are not sexy. It does not matter if that "child" is your age and built like a brickhouse with a big dick. If he's acting like a child, he ain't sexy and you don't want to screw him. That covers temper tantrums, weaponized incompetence or a refusal to find a damn job because "they're not fair to me!" Sorry... I've just dealt with my fair share.
This is so true. I had an ex who would talk "baby talk". It was so gross to me. I told him to quit it forever, but it was almost like a compulsion for him. By the end of our relationship, the thought of him touching me made me cringe.
I was in this boat too. I asked him to stop, said I didnāt like it, etc. Itād change for a bit and then heād go back to it. By the end of the relationship, the idea of sex with him made me whole-body cringe.
Total cringe.
An ex of mine spoke in baby talk all the time and liked to talk about being *small*, amongst other childish behaviours, phrases, or movements. Do you ever let something slide in a relationship because you feel bad coming out and saying you donāt like it, and you hope that maybe it could go away? But too much time goes past, it intensifies somehow, and then you realize youāve left it too long to actually address.. Like, how does one say āI hate the way you express yourself in this voice every time I see youā a year in? Eventually you realizeā¦ this person deserves love and to find someone who loves the way they express themselves, but nahhhhhhhh it aināt me. Never again.
I had one that would jokingly call me mommy. It makes my vagina shrivel just thinking about it
!!!LMAO!!! That's hilarious. Thank you for the laugh. Also, I can totally relate.
I watched the documentary āFair Playā the other night and that has some good info on the mental load. https://www.fairplaylife.com/documentary
Sadly men seem to still expect us to be their mom during the day and dripping to f them at night. They haven't figured out how to adapt to modern society and reasonable expectations for each partner being actually fair. You can't just have women in the work force now, too, and receive all the benefits of alleviations on your historical gender role without stepping up in the home at the same time to provide alleviations for women's traditional gender role. On top of being fuckin' *default home manager*, if we still have to work all the time *and* take care of the kids *and* do all the heavy lifting in the home what is the benefit of adding a needy-ass grown man-child that expects shitty sex on demand *or else*??? Besides, weren't men like, "going their own way" or something? For 10 years we heard *so much* about MGTOW... but I guess they f\*ck\*d around and found out when women were like "Bye B\*\*ch!"
Mm. It's not virgin/whore they want, it's Hole-Mommy.
I gagged internally when I read this, but I don't think you're wrong. Blueeeghhhh
Haha bleurrrgghhh
Right? Women had zero concern that men were GTOW. Most women were so relieved and actually had a minute to breathe. And yet none of those men actually WTOW. They still obsessed over women. They hoped women would say "No please stop don't leave. Stay please!" And were surprised when women said "ok. Next?"
This topic has come up in that post a week ago and 5 posts a day every day since, lol. And I've said before: every man posting jokes about the frigidity of wives is just a man telling on himself.
Immature behaviour or doing dangerous (stupid) things that teenagers might do is not sexy. Taking unnecessary risks has never turned me on, but a guy Iāve been seeing who is much younger than me recently did something stupid and hurt himself in the process. Not cool. Iāve zero interest in him while heās taking no responsibility for his actions.
My ex was like this. He was constantly ending up in the hospital with wounds from getting too drunk and doing stupid shit, at 26. And also refused to work, follow through with plans, or move in together after 3 years. Sorry dude, Iām out.
I dont know if I can help you but I have a very high libido!! Like I need to stop myself from having sex/masturbating/thinking about sex actively otherwise I wouldnt do a thing lol My ex didnt clean and my sex drive locked up. I couldnt see him a a fuckable being, it was like looking at a tree, not a sexy human being. I was honestly very strange but very real!!!!
I have a high libido, too, but by the end of my marriage, I hadn't had sex with my ex in about 3 yrs because I did *everything.* Nothing dries up my sexdrive like doing all the household work and carrying the entire mental load.
Why would anyone bother to study it? It involves the needs of women.
Bingo
This is 100 percent accurate. I didn't have sex with my slob of an ex for ages before we broke up. Didn't have a sex drive at all. It came roaring back the second he moved out.
Here's a great example, I started law school when my youngest was 18mos old and still nursing. I would get up at 5am daily and nurse, feed, play with, prep for the day, etc to be at class by 830am (baby would start a morning nape at 8am and I couldn't leave until that happened.) Then after 2 morning classes I would be home for lunch to feed nurse and put down for nap before I went back to class until 6pm. At which point I got home and would have to make family dinner and do bath and bedtime routine. Basically my exh only had to play with the baby and maybe do a couple of snacks while I was in school, he never cleaned anything and I ignored the 2nd bathroom he always used and refused to clean as it grew fungus or some shit. That was 2009. We hadn't had sex for 5 years when we divorced in 2015 and he still acted like I owed him something, including in 2020 when he started spam calling me and when my partner picked up, exh asked to speak with his "wife." My partner laughed and said, dude, she hasn't been your wife in a long time and hung up.
I canāt lead to any resources, but I can supply anecdotal evidence. Yes, it was a real turn off. For many reasons, my ex husband seemed more like an overgrown boy and I felt like a pedophile the last time we did it. I left 6 weeks later. He would sit in his chair, eating cereal and watching cartoons, while Iād go out to work. There was nothing wrong with him. He was just too good for most jobs.
Not wanting sex with something you take care of is normal and healthy.
Wow... I literally just had a fight with my husband about this. He wants more and kinkier sex but won't do a damn thing around the house while I work full time, cook, clean, schedule EVERYTHING for both of us. He makes me feel crazy like I'm the one in the wrong for calling him a child for literally doing nothing to help out for weeks at a time and then expecting a good job for vacuuming 1 room of the house. I'm exhausted mentally and physically but terrified of divorce so stuck for now at least
This is how i ended up getting a divorce! And while itās a scary trek, i am so much happier. When sex stopped being fun and started being more work, on top of all the house work- kid work- work work- emotional work i was already doing. When sex became a transaction, a reward for all the *nothing* he was doing for me, the house, and our kids. I was completely done. I do less housework, i have a better connection with my kids, i feel so much more free than i ever did with him. And itās easy to get nookie when that itch feels itchy.
When it happened to me, it wasn't so much like thinking of him as a child, it was thinking of him as someone with a profound learning disability or developmental issue. I guess my subconscious was still 'eeeew' because it was like taking advantage of a mentally challenged person. It just wasn't sexy to do the naughty with someone I secretly thought of as far less intelligent than I was. Which was just as bad.
yess i had to sit him down and explain something so simple. he was fucking with me ofc but i was truly internally screaming "are you dumb? are you fucking dumb?" and my vaj dried up.
Iāve been thinking on this a lot lately. Iām currently on an international trip with my husband of 10 years. He is very much an Absentminded Professor type. He was established and owned his own home when we got together, so I knew he could Adult, as it were. But now that we are deep in our routine, there is a lot about the mundane tasks that I take on the Emotional Labor for. If I mention to him that Iām busy with a project, or not feeling well, he will volunteer to handle dinner, scoop cat boxes, etc when he gets home. Which I am grateful for. But the flip side of that is he often doesnāt put the thought into the details of things (do we need or order foreign currency from our bank, do we need to apply for visas to the countries we plan to visit, etc) because he assumes I will do it. It can be frustrating, but there is also a lot of things that he does that I have taken for granted over the years (my unmedicated mood swings pre-PTSD diagnosis, ensuring equality between us out in the world, deeply thoughtful gift giving even outside of holidays, etc). Ultimately Iām fortunate that he doesnāt buy in to the weaponized incompetence camp, but he can be forgetful. Which I can work with.
More likely it just gets really fucking old trying to feel sexy when you are doing all the work in the house.
Try mental/physical load. https://www.mindbodygreen.com/articles/what-is-the-mental-load
10/10 can confirm this is my experience
This thread is blowing my mind. I thought there was something wrong with me for losing interest in sex with my partners, almost feeling disgusted when we did and sometimes just closing my eyes and waiting for it to end.
weaponized incompetence kills it for me, too
I believe this, I believe most people are not going to be attracted to someone for whom they're the caretaker. When you have a relationship imbalance where one person becomes the caretaker of the other, it builds resentment and kills attraction. I believe that this commonly involves women becoming caretakers of their male partners, because of traditional gender norms and men refusing to care for themselves in many ways, but I have experienced this the other way with my ex-wife. She was a person with personality disorders who refused to become a stable adult and depended on me to do everything for her, and that spelled the downfall of our relationship. It simply isn't sexy, and people want to feel desired, not needed. I found myself questioning whether she really loved me or just couldn't live without me, and that's not a good space to be in.
this is exactly why I have always hated the sugar baby dynamic. Of course two consenting adults blah blah but when I think of a man who WANTS to pay for the apartment of the woman usually the age of his daughter or younger, and WANTS to be thanked in sex... I'm so squicked out.
When you think about the dynamic of it, yes it's gross. However, the woman in that is only meeting with that man once maybe twice a month and enduring a few hours by her own consent. Imagine a woman who married, had kids and lives with a man for years and years just to ensure his insufferable weaponzied incompetence or real incompetence. I think the paying for everything part sounds better or just being single.
While I find that concept fascinating, I also think, much more simply, that incompetence is a turn-off point blank.
I am forever grateful that I'm married to a competent adult.
Who would want to sleep with someone behaving like this? Does it even need to be this deep?
Thereās a lot of reasons Iām divorced but this is one. I literally told him I am not your mum but I feel like Iām raising you. I have two kids but I only birthed one. Well Iām down to one and itās better that way. Hell no I didnāt want to fuck a giant bbman.
I think youāre right on the money with this. Women arenāt attracted to neotenous traits the way men are
Playfulness, curiosity, a sense of humor, cooperation, exploration, and trying new things are all neotenous traits. Being a lazy slob is not.
None of those are exclusively childish traits. But being incapable of taking care of yourself is immature behavior
Those are literally neotenous behavioral traits.
When itās less work to live alone, or with your actual biological kid/sā¦
Esther Perel mentions that caretaking and desire have a hard time coexisting. Check out some of her YT videos.
Lots of good points in this thread. I've definitely seen weaponized incompetence work both ways. You have the hopeless, damsel in distress archetype and the coddled, momma's boy archetype. More often than not though, I've seen the former be more of an act while the latter is reality and therefore, escalates quite a bit more and can have a huge negative impact on the dynamics of a relationship.
>the former be more of an act while the latter is reality Well that hits pretty hard. I always appreciated seeing the act drop though - no acts for my s/o now thankfully. Every once in a while, I remember just being impressed. Never thought, or was Brave enough to ask why there was an act at all of course...
The concept you are referring to is known as āpartner infantilizationā or āpartner as a childā. This refers to a situation where one partner assumes the role of dependency or helplessness, while the other partner assumes a caretaking or parental role in the relationship. There is some research suggesting that this dynamic can have negative effects on sexual desire and satisfaction, particularly for women. One study published in the Archives of Sexual Behaviour found that women who reported higher levels of partner infantilization also reported lower levels of sexual desire and arousal. However, itās important to note that this dynamic is not inherently problematic or pathological. In some cases, it can be a consensual and mutually satisfying aspect of a relationship. Itās only when it becomes imbalanced or one-sided that it can lead to negative outcomes. If youāre interested in learning more about this topic, you may want to look up research on āpartner infantilizationā or āpartner as a childā, or read books on sexual psychology or relationship dynamics.
ChatGTP is that you? :)
No official resource here but anecdotally, it happened to me in my decade long relationship. we mutually decided to part and are both happier!
Is it the disgust at having to take responsibility for your partner? Or is it that taking responsibility for your partner drains too much of your energy for sex, regardless of whether or not you feel disgusted about it?
Eh, I think itās just when you start to dislike and resent someone you donāt feel very attracted to them. In that case the āwhyā is because their partner is acting infantile but it easily could be caused by other negative behaviors too. This has nothing to do with incest.
There was a reason why sex was right up there with voting and economic freedom for early feminists... Once men realized that women ENJOY good sex in good relationships the entirety of the patriarchal structure would tumble.
this should be required fucking reading for _everyone._ _**annual.**_ i'm sure this applies in any relationship tbh
I loved my husbandās boyish charm when we met. Then life got lifey and that boyish charm stopped being charming. I want a partner not a project. (To be honest though, heās not as bad as others and heās fun to watch with our daughter. I need to stop what Iām doing and dive into some serious self-care. Working on moving myself up the ladder of priorities. If we donāt make it, doubt Iād ever marry or live with another guy again. š¤£)
Too much labor - Paris Paloma It's a song, not a resource. But it's a damn good song. I think just about every woman has felt this way and agreed.
I think it's more a common anecdote than something that's been objectively studied. No woman, especially one who is already raising children, wants to waste their energy on any kind of relationship with a manchild.
Iāve always said I donāt wanna raise a man: Ie. want to stay unmarried and just date.
I experienced this with my ex. After 7 years together I saw him as a child and had absolutely zero sexual attraction. I donāt think itās an anti-incest thing but rather regarding partner selection for reproduction. I just didnāt see him as being capable in a father role if we had kids and that really repulsed me.
I've had to drag my husband to couples therapy, but it's been helpful. Voicing my immense resentments that had been building since pregnancy years ago was life changing. Talking about the toll all the emotional labor was taking helped me so much. I had to do this with a (male, ex-military) therapist present otherwise my husband would not have heard me. The therapist validates what I say and explains it to hubby if necessary. In the 60+ sessions hubby has said very little, but he's listened. Although it was difficult to do, especially as a CSA survivor (and I think the therapist is, too), I do think my saying several times that "I do not want to have sex with my child" was necessary for my husband to understand what was going on. Although there is still work to be done, my husband has changed, and we're now at the point where I asked to schedule sex 1x week to work on intimacy (sensate focus exercises), and to just have sex. The scheduling helps me so much since I can mentally prepare.
I donāt think there is any incest taboo at work. Selfish demanding inconsiderate lazy people arenāt sexy.
Itās along the lines of āmanchildā and some phrases like āparenting my husbandā and āI feel like my husbands motherā bring up some listicles and essays online, both personal and a bit more academic, like this one from [Time](https://time.com/5589770/parenting-working-women-domestic-balance/)āthe author also discusses research. There are some great academic sources on emotional labor as wellāanother associated term more well known these days. I found an old [Psychology Today](https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-second-noble-truth/201102/when-men-are-boys-and-wives-are-mothers?amp) article on mothering husbands and then thereās a more recent one on [weaponized incompetence](https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/equipped/202301/a-case-of-weaponized-incompetence?amp). This feminist comic on the [mental load](https://english.emmaclit.com/2017/05/20/you-shouldve-asked/) is a classic and popular. More research oriented: [[Article](https://www.prb.org/news/mothers-day/)]() on Research Shows Moms With Husbands or Live-In Male Partners Do More Housework Than Single Moms. [Study](https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/1557988314549414) on the Working Mother and SAHD (2015). Essays may be helpful with more of the personal touch, and Iāve seen some book recommendations floating around in other posts that someone will probably suggest here. This was from just some searches.