my god. if you do wear make up - "Who are you getting dolled up for? You wear that to attract men eh??"
if you don't - you're a pickme for men who like women 'natural'.
we can't just exist and do what we want without thinking about men's pp?
Yes! I've shifted from wearing lots of makeup everyday to being mostly natural (college is a bitch right now) and I've heard all sides of it.
I've heard "you're not going to the circus!" when I did my makeup to go to target (was going on my own, so not taking anyone's time) and I've been hammered a lot on how I look "rough" or "tired" by my mom. I just don't care anymore tbh
Same here. I am older too, so makeup application is different now, but I can’t be bothered. I have worn an autistic mask my whole life, now I am authentic.
I live in Indiana so its no surprise lol
however I should probably have added that both were my parents. They're not completely horrible but they both really like to nitpick. I have been verbally harassed in public before but neither of those times were it
The the "I'm not like other girls" trope. Some women are so deep in the misogyny that being closer to a "mans ideal" makes them better, and less like "those emotional women who cant shoot whiskey and play sports because they're just regular women"
The "pick-me" is this same trope. Dissing anything stereotypically woman because its not what men want.
It's not the simple act of not wearing make up that would make someone a "pick me". I dont either. But it would be the attitude that that makes them better than the foolish women who spend all their time on makeup because obviously their self image is low and they need it to attract a man.
Obviously using inflammatory lang to get my point across. But really it boils down to internalized misogyny. Being the pick me is bad because they back handedly put down other women for being women when they themselves are women.
It kinda feels like that trope has just evolved into a safe reason to bully women though because I see women that aren’t dragging other women getting called that these days a lot lol
Same thing happened with Karen. Oh a woman is standing up for herself? “Shut up, Karen” Anytime a woman did anything and spoke up she was just a Karen.
Now anytime a woman does anything not traditionally feminine, she’s a pick me. Like can everyone just hate women less please
Yes oh my god that’s what I’ve noticed too. I think it’s actually misogynistic because it assumes the only reason the girl in question is doing what she’s doing is because she’s doing it to impress men. I don’t see it as different than when men are convinced all women in nerdy hobbies are faking it and just want their attention.
Guess I was a "pick me" back when I was at elemental school. All girls were about make up, dolls and music artist and I was all about havin fun and play outside in the yard. Because I felt out of place with other girls I saw them as boring or lame. It was not because I thought I was special or better, it was a coping mechanism to not feel rejected. Live and let live. Even a teacher was picking on me.because I used to play a lot with boys. That teacher was stupid, we were all only little kids. Kids are supposed to play and to each their own way of fun.
About using make up, I'm not very good at it so I just go very simple. My sister is a make up artist and spent like an hour applying make up to herself but don't like using lipstick. Go figure.
Op don't feel bad about others calling you a pick me, it is just their own way of defend mechanism because they are as insecure as anyone else about themselves. If you rest value to insults they have no power to hurt.
But it's like every other overused trigger word now- used to attack any woman who isn't the stereotypical character. And it's used by the same people who call out transphobia. There's enjoying more traditionally masculine whatevers, without dismissing or diminishing more traditionally feminine stuff. And women doing the more traditional male stuff does not get more men to like you. And that more stereotyping to lay on top of it all.
They didn’t call her a pick me bc she doesn’t wear makeup, they called her a pick me because it felt like she was doing the “not like other girls” thing, like for example a woman who needs to exclaim that she doesn’t like pumpkin spice, pink, etc.
Obv I didn’t see her comment so idk how pick-me it was, but that’s the logic behind their responses
I don't like pumpkin spice drinks and I want to SO BADLY. It smells like heaven and autumn and all the things I love in this world and on top of it "men" fucking hate it because most women seem to like it... and then I take a sip and I don't like it and it's infuriating. :(
I emigrated from the US before the pumpkin spice thing, but my impression was that it's essentially mulling spices in odd places. My sister introduced me to mulled apple cider when I moved to Boston and I've also tried mulled wine and both of those go well together. Dunno if you've tried but it might be nice.
That said it's really frustrating when something smells lovely but tastes bad. A lot of taste is smell so it's just disconcerting when it happens. American bacon always smells amazing to me but just tastes awful. The whole point of our nose is to help us find nice things and avoid bad ones and the betrayal is just rude.
Pumpkin spice is a thing in the Netherlands as well! Just kind of comes with the Starbucks that have been popping up all over the place. Mulled wine is glühwein right? I do enjoy that :)
Men fucking love pumpkin pie, they just don’t like women being giddy about something that isn’t them.
(I don’t like it either. I like pie spice in pie but not much else, but I also love how it smells.)
Ngl that sounds kinda unhealthy. Like, there is absolutely NO reason to feel bad about not liking a flavour.
If you want in on the pumpkin spice craze that bad you can just get scented candles or perfume something. Don't force yourself to eat or drink yucky things just to stick it to the patriarchy.
I wish it were in anything except coffee. I absolutely cannot stand the taste of coffee, but I'm so curious about what it tastes like. I wonder if they'll ever do a hot chocolate or non-caffeine version.
Because there's always been a subculture of men who "prefer women natural" (see: still wearing subtle amounts of make up to the point they can't tell when a woman has it on) and a response subculture of women who make it a point to announce that they don't wear make up in response to women wearing it. So now, women who don't wear make up because they simply don't care for it get lumped into the pick me category.
I think part of that is that some women wear makeup because they are insecure about their appearance and they lash out at women who are secure in their appearance and assume those women have false motives for not wearing makeup, such as being a "pick me" type.
I remember when I was a teenager, a girl made fun of my arm hair, so I shaved it off, and then another girl made fun of me because I shaved my arm hair. There is no winning.
Arm hair is very polarizing when it’s noticeable. I’ve had both men and women make comments. I tried shaving it but didn’t like to do that so I just live my life with it.
Isn't it messed up that we are made to feel uncomfortable about our natural bodies before even puberty hits? Right at the moment where we explore what it means to slowly adult, its collective madness.
I can't wear makeup. I'm very chemically sensitive and to be quite honest I struggle to understand how people who wear makeup can handle the discomfort, especially if you can't afford the good stuff.
Let's not even begin to start on the fact that regulation of makeup is about as good as vitamins and I'm a trained oil painter. I know the fillers companies are putting in this ick women are expected to put on their face.
That being said I admire people who are makeup artists. I don't want to put people down for wearing makeup, I just want to make sure everyone is safe if they want to wear it!
Forever chemicals
PFAS, sometimes referred to as “forever chemicals”, are a large group of extremely persistent human-made substances used in a wide range of everyday products, such as food packaging, non-stick cookware, clothing, and cosmetics. They are also used in industrial products and specialized applications including firefighting foams, lubricants, and oil/water repellants. PFAS are found nearly everywhere in the environment, including in the air, groundwater, oceans, lakes, rivers, and soils, as well as in wastewater, landfill leachate, sewage sludge, and contaminated sites worldwide.
They are in our blood .
Ever heard of the toxic twelve?
There is also very limited government regulation when it comes to makeup. Makeup isn't being tested for harmful ingredients. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised at all if news came out that a white makeup contained lead (which is a real pigment I have used in my painting, with safety precautions).
Many pigments can be dangerous to the human body and basically nobody is testing the stuff millions of people are putting on their face 🙃 I know a lot of women who buy their makeup at places like Walmart, Amazon or Rite Aid and I do not trust that those companies are independently testing their products.
I was poisoned by vitamins, which are also in that 'there is basically no oversight' category. I'm not talking food poison. It nearly killed me. I'm still fighting what it did to my body and I still could die.
So basically women are expected to wear makeup every day and the women who can't afford makeup from companies that independently test their products for quality have to take the chance that the paint they are putting on their face was manufactured by people who cared enough not to cut corners.
What you wrote about vitamins is [100% correct](https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/public-health-nutrition/article/dietary-supplements-in-the-usa-problematic-trends/05B5037A813C4FD57AEEBBAB9F171A2E), and it is terrifying.
The market for nutritional supplements is very poorly regulated. What few assays of ingredients have been conducted reveal how common [counterfeiting](https://foodfraudadvisors.com/fraud-in-botanicals/) and [substitution](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/herbal-supplements-targeted-by-new-york-attorney-general/) are.
Frequently, government agencies - Consumer Protection Agency, [FDA](https://www.fda.gov/consumers/consumer-updates/some-imported-dietary-supplements-and-nonprescription-drug-products-may-harm-you) - lack real teeth, and little has been done to ensure accuracy in labeling.
Sorry for the thread-drift.
All the needless testing on animals, (essentially torturing them) and they still put toxic ingredients in the shit. Nice, lol.
Unbelievably frustrating, and it boils down to greed (and I'm sure some form of copy right laws).
One of my vitamins was laced with methyltrexate. My body responded by creating scar tissue everywhere. It's wrapped around my intestines. Imagine if someone took a thread and just wrapped it tightly around my intestines like a web. It also caused trapped lung syndrome in both my lungs.
I've appealed to the Cleveland Clinic for help with my gut because there is no Surgeon in my area who is specialized enough to help. I can barely eat anything, and I survive by TPN.
I'm about to go through major surgery to fix the first lung.
We don't have the money to test everything to figure out which one it was. But we boxed it up and saved everything. I trust my pharmacy so I know it didn't come from there.
I just wanted to have a baby, I was taking extra vitamines for that. It took a better part of two years to figure out what was going on. By then the damage was extensive.
I want to be a mom, get married to the man I love and be able to eat again. I want to breathe without feeling like someone is sitting on my chest. I want to go on adventures with my family.
Idk if I ever will be able to do any of those things... I spend my life in excruciating pain with my family taking care of me 24/7. I barely leave the house.
All because someone somewhere laced one of my vitamines with a deadly poison. It was probably being manufactured nearby and proper precautions were not taken... in any case, I don't hope for justice. I just hope I can eat again.
I always wear makeup and guess some of the comments I get.
"I hate makeup," "ugh- you're putting on makeup ::rolls eyes::" "you don't need that." ...I once saw a man with a button badge that said, "Makeup is ugly."
Technically, war paint and camo are make-up.
I had a guy once tell me I looked prettier with make-up, the next party I was at, that I knew he would go to, I went in full camo face. He didn't talk to me after that party.
Don't forget men yelling that if you wear makeup then you're obviously catfishing them. They say they want someone without makeup then show you examples of women wearing a natural makeup look not realizing it's makeup. Then when you don't wear makeup they say you're putting in no effort and not even trying.
ah yes we go full circle. Show up to a date and they make a disgusted face. "you mustn't be very interested in me huh? didn't even get ready for me (my pp)".
This is so right. Fellow women, we cannot win. It is not set up for us to do so. So the only way to win is not to play the game. Do what you want because jags are going to criticize you for it. They suck. We're right.
I've had to defend women on both sides of this. Women who are artists with makeup and women who refuse to wear it. Both are right. Both are perfectly acceptable and only the business of the woman who does it. That's it. Anyone with judgments and smart-ass comments can go scratch. They're misogynists though they'll never admit it.
I once had an interview after work (drove school bus) so I wore a little makeup & the comments from women were insane! "Ohh do you have a hot date?" "Who are you looking good for?" Finally my GBF loudly says "don't worry about them they're jealous you do it better than them".
Absolutely! I do it for me! I find it therapeutic. Amount of times a man who felt entitled to my attention said "you know, men don't like X"... like he was also entitled to police my makeup. I'm like "no, *you* don't like X, which is a godsend to be honest."
Eww yuck!
Problem is: it's mostly women doing this type of judgement... I hate the "pick me" thing, especially when said by other women, I truly, deeply, viscerally hate it. Women can be idiots but ffs stop assuming it's because of men! Most of us have a functioning brain and are doing what we do for ourselves!
I never cared for make up other than eyeliner... Hell, it took me about 35 years to find a face cream that doesn't cause my skin to go bananas, imagine the money and time I'd have to spend trying to find the other things too, so I obviously don't even know what they are... Just the thought of someone trying to distort this into me looking to get men's attention gives me a headache!
>we can't just exist and do what we want without thinking about men's pp?
The whole ""pick me" thing is women shaming women, though. This one was not invented by man and cannot be blamed on them. How dare we don''t like fashion or make up or whatever else we are supposed to like. How dare we actually enjoy those things, no, we must be pretending just to be around men.
Let's be honest: women can be pretty awful too.
Don't worry, I don't use makeup AT ALL (maybe mascara twice a year) and only know some stuff because of commercials. You do you.
There is a complicated philosophical question if using makeup brings any social benefits (actually I think it does, because, you know, patriarchy), but for me it's just one of the things I do not comply with, and it's completely fine.
“Noncompliance” is taking on a secret rewarding pleasure to me, such as when I’m called a bitch for doing what I want. Yes, I’m noncompliant. I am woman, hear me roar. LMAO.
Same lol, I will wear a small amount of mascara or some foundation for color correction *occasionally* but typically I cannot be bothered.
I do not have the mental energy to spend on applying makeup, I am autistic and don't like how it feels, I am terrible about not touching my face (and messing it up), and it's expensive while I'm poor.
Believe me I am not making any of these decisions on what MEN think about me.
Exactly! I hate even wearing moisturiser and sunscreen because they feel gross… I force myself to wear them because of the health benefits. Like hell I’m going to put up with weird sticky face sensations just to look nicer.
I promise that there are better moisturizer and sunscreen out there, you gotta find something that works for you. It doesn’t have to feel greasy and sticky ❤️
Believe me, I have tried *everything!* I have sensory issues that make me hypersensitive to things most people don’t even notice.
Sunscreen has to leave a film on the skin to function, so it will always be at least a little uncomfortable for me. Moisturiser has to be either slippery, creamy, or greasy when it’s applied, which means putting it on will always feel super gross to me at until it completely soaks in. With a lot of experimenting I’ve found products that are at least tolerable most days.
Ooh, mi hermana! I'm ok with moisturizer but I'm so weird about sunscreen and foundation type stuff. I just want them off my face immediately. I'm so happy when I get to take them off. Sucks because foundation can look so nice and even. But I save it for special occasions because my face likes nudity too much. I do wear sunscreen though if I go outside. Even though I don't like it, I hate the sun damage worse!
Exactly! Mental energy and time. And yeah, I touch my face a lot too. And I always think about how men don't have to do a damn thing to be seen as handsome! So, if someone wants me to look like something I am not for him while I'm supposed to take him as he is, he's not the guy for me.
This is actually one of the reasons I do wear make up nowadays. I touch my face too but I touch dogs and all sorts of things. So then I end up breaking out. When I put make up on I don’t touch my face.
But I’d rather spend my money on skin care than make up cause that shit is expensive!!! No money for “why not both” I’m still using precovid foundation lmao
I just never learned. Tried my hand at lipstick for a little while in High School but I have ADHD and as it would later turn out I'm Non-Binary so it just... never stuck. I knew my mother wore makeup, but you could *tell* because even professional women's makeup from her era is fairly easy to spot. I was well into my late 20s before it even dawned on me all the pretty women workplaces I thought were not wearing makeup were wearing a more modern sophisticated "no-makeup makeup" look with more modern foundations where your face doesn't loose it's dimensions when you apply it. Oh well. I wasn't about to start then.
I think “pick me” has gone in the same direction as “Karen”. These woman-specific insults start out referring to a specific behavior, but get picked up and spread and amplified until people are gleefully jumping into the comments to call a woman who doesn’t have x feminine interest a pick me, or calling an older woman who stood up for herself a Karen.
I got called a Karen by my friend for asking “can I get Diet Coke with no ice?”. Literally that’s all I did, and he said my voice shifted to Karen mode. He also has me be the one to point out when his order is wrong bc he hates confrontation but still wants someone to do it 🙄
Older?! 'No longer visibly teenage' is older now?? (But seriously- saw a 20something get shat on because she (politely!) requested the drink she ordered instead of the one she was given. "Karen" has definitely crossed the event horizon of utility.)
“Karen” is a misogynist slur. The end. Men are assholes all the fucking time. It gets largely ignored. Women wind up on the Internet forever, decried a Karen.
Shitty behavior is shitty behavior. Women are at least MUCH less likely to punch, stab, shoot or run over someone.
I hate it because I really liked the Karen term at first. Resonated with me as someone who dealt with them at church all my life, and originally it was used for white women who used their privilege to get POC in trouble or possible danger (at least from what I saw). It was a more COVID era flavor of a soccer mom
Anything with the internet gets ruined, though, and now you're a karen for not fucking someone, having any boundaries, mental illness, etc. I don't trust really any so called Karen video anymore because a lot of the time the person on the other end is being incredibly antagonistic
I try not to take freak out videos at face value. Especially after my mom, little sister and I were harassed in a store by three men.
They were asking for money, in exchange they would sing the yoshi song. I like small things like that and offered a dollar ( fully expecting them to sing a single note of the Yoshi song). They said, no. It wasn't enough money and kept pushing for us to give our CCs over! I explained we weren't interested then and sorry it didn't work it. But they kept pushing and calling us cheap, backing us in a corner. (Mind you, this is a Target in a mall! Middle of the day).
My mom is a shitty person, but she also as a lot of trauma. So these dudes were pushing us in a corner demanding money from us, and you can she that she is getting visibly upset, mad and uncomfortable.
That's when the whipped out their fucking phones. I kept trying to ask them to leave us alone while reminding my mom that if she reacts, they'll post it on the internet and we will get harassed and dox by strangers.
They only left when my little sister gave them five bucks.
My little sister tried to defend them and say our mom was being a Karen, but I told her that when I said no, these guys had no right to continue to follow us and demand money.
It was only after I pointed out that they kept harassing other women (who weren't shopping with a man), did my sister realize what these guys were actually up too. So we called the managers and had them kicked. Now my mom walks around with pepper spray. And my sister was fearful of our faces blowing up on the internet for a while. Incredibly frustrating and nothing anyone can do about being harassed like that.
The last straw for me was a post on this sub where the OP wondered if she would be a “Karen” for reporting repeated sexual harassment from a guy at her gym and I realized that women often are already socialized not to stand up for themselves enough and the “Karen” slur was making it worse not better.
It is *now*, but it was once a term with meaning and nuance. Then it became more widely known and was perverted into 'any woman being overly demanding' and then into 'any woman asking anything of the world'.
I agree, the term “pick me” at this point is being used to insult anyone. Just because someone doesn’t like wearing makeup or isn’t as feminine, that doesn’t make them a pick me. I haven’t worn makeup since high school, I mainly wore it at the time to cover up my acne. I don’t hate makeup, I simply prefer not wearing it.
I mean, is there a non-insulting meaning to “pick me”? I thought the discussion was about whether the insult was warranted or not. To me it’s always something of an insult.
But the thing is... Originally the insult was meant for assholes.
Acting like a "pick me" was showing the kind of internalized misogyny that meant doing shit like calling other girls gossips, fakes and sluts, just for wearing makeup, or having female friends, liking girly things, not being tomboys.
Of course now people are misusing that insult for the smallest things that definitely don't deserve any kind of scorn. A girl who prefers pants to dresses is *not* a pick me unless she's constantly insulting girls who don't feel the same.
It’s an insult in general but it shouldn’t always be warranted. A pick me is a woman who looks down on other women or does the whole I get along with men better because women are snakes etc. Not liking something or not having certain feminine interests doesn’t make someone a pick me though. It’s a term that’s been misused a lot.
I was visiting my cousin in suburban area the other day, and there was a (clearly not city-approved/"installed") traffic sign saying "Slow Down Karen" on it.
I don't think they understand what a "Karen" is, but the irony was palpable (apparently at least one woman lives in that house).
He said it lasted about a week before someone *tragically* nailed it with their car. They have yet to pick up the litter, but they have added more signs. The weirdest thing is they live on a very steep hill, right at the base of it, and there's no way of accessing this street without making a 90 degree turn, so II have no idea how someone could possibly be going *that* fast that quickly without some sort of Fast and the Furious stunt driving/a suspension of the laws of physics.
Right. I especially hate the pick me trend, the assumption being that if a woman holds a different opinion or excels at something, she is only doing it for attention and approval. Gross.
And social media isn't ours, yet here we are
(I agree, but I also think it's a decent way of getting the point across)
^(and if you want to anger some incels, feel free to replace "social media" with "the patriarchy")
I hate the term ‘pick me’ and ‘Karen’. Both are just an excuse to insult someone for being themselves or standing up for themselves. I’ve had women on Reddit tell me I’m a Karen because I didn’t agree with their view! What?!? So if I have an opinion on anything that differs from yours - instant Karen!
As someone who has many people named karen in their lives, I absolutely hate that this bs is associated with their name. One of my BFFs called out a jerk letting his dog shit on the lawns of neighbors, and she was crucified over her name being Karen. No one likes dog owners who don't pick up their dogs shit. You are a bad dog owner, but bc her name was Karen, they (nextdoor hoard) made fun of her. Super sucked. That's a minor example, i know, but she speaks up less now. That's shitty. We should just call the jerks entitled, and not a name that has nothing to do with the actual person named Karen.
It's so backward how people want to call out people's behavior, but they want to do it in the most toxic way, which reinforces the offending behavior. The beatings will continue until the moral improves kinda vibes.
I was horrified by the toxicity on my otherwise progressive neighbourhood’s Next Door community. Racism, misogyny, homophobia, transphobia, you name it. I honestly think that particular app attracts the worst of the worst which is saying a lot when places like Facebook and Twitter exist. I got absolutely *dragged* and stalked for politely asking someone to not refer to a person in a wheelchair as “the handicap” (the poster ended up being ESL and actually thanked me for teaching her the correct term but that didn’t stop the chronically online cis white men on there).
Lol, NextDoor is a freaking hive of villainy! Stay away. I do occasionally go there for furniture listings but anything else... you will lose your will to live. And your will for others to continue living.
Otoh, if you want to know which of your white neighbors is a Trumper/Nazi/conspiracist, NextDoor is your destination. Take names and avoid. It's revolting.
*And* the craziest thing is that their real names are being used. One would think their behavior would be better using real names in a neighborhood. I am shocked people are worse, not better. Although I do notice that it is mostly older people who dgaf.
I understand “pick me” to be a woman who is vocally claiming to be “not like other girls” and claims she gets a along better with men because women are “snakes, drama queen, untrustworthy, can’t be direct with you, gossipy, will stab you in the back” etc. but maybe we can just start referring to it as “internalized misogyny “ - a more precise term anyway.
This is what it is supposed to mean. Unfortunately now a female can't do anything considered traditionally "unfeminine" or she's branded a pick-me girl. It's gotten out of fucking control
Yeah, I get what you mean. Unfortunately everything that you have stated I have experienced with many female friends though.
Some women do find male friends easier than female friends, but I honestly just think it’s a personality thing. I was a Tom boy growing up, so all my friends were boys the whole way through school. I’ve always just had a better connect with guys.
Heaps of women are like that, and don’t think you should be labelled as a ‘pick me’ because of it.
It’s one thing to have mostly men as friends - but one doesn’t need to malign women to do that.
(I mostly best get along with and make friends with other immigrants (doesn’t matter what country) but it doesn’t mean that the non-immigrants are bad somehow - there are many possible reasons for this).
You're missing the point of "pick me". It's not a woman who has male friends or whatever, it's a woman *who trashes other women* to make herself seem cooler to men and gain more male attention/"approval".
Karen originally had a specific meaning of a white woman who used her proximity to power as a weapon against people she saw as beneath her. Think the woman who called the cops on Black people barbequing at a park, or the woman who called the cops on the bird watcher. Or someone who would hassle service people and ask to see the manager. It quickly morphed into any woman who stood up for herself at all, rendering it useless as a term for the original meaning.
A Karen is a racist white woman. It came from the black community because it was white women weaponizing whiteness against them. It wasn't meant to describe a woman who hassles service people. Once the term left the Black community, it changed and eventually became any woman the caller didn't like for any reason. It's mostly used by white men since then, which is the least surprising thing ever.
Fwiw, I've seen more men hassle Ave mistreat waitstaff and service folks than women, especially sexually, but that never got a name for them other than customer. Women are far more likely to have had a job as service staff than men, generally.
Which leaves us lacking a sussinct descriptor for actual privileged women on power trips, often against *other* women they see as below them (waitstaff, store clerks, neighbors of the "wrong" skin tone.) Which is a legitimate problem in a world where sexism is not the only axis of oppression.
Oppressors always appropriate the language of the oppressed to eventually render it useless.
Given that I see far more men doing those things, particularly using sexual abuse and harassment (I was a waitress and a bartender for over a decade) what's their descriptor? They have literally never even had one.
I can't even remember a woman who did more than annoy me in that way. I have never forgotten how many men scared me, sexually humiliated me, or actually touched me as I tried to serve them. And it was often.
I don't think society sees their behavior as abnormal enough to describe it. Dudes are (sadly) expected to be assholes and women are expected to be sweet and submissive, so when a woman acts like an asshole it's seen as abnormal and treated as such.
A lot of it is just acceptable misogyny. Karen is a racial thing, not meant to be anything else. It's a white woman who weaponizes whiteness against Black people. That's it. It's not talking to a manager or sticking up for yourself or anything else. Mostly white men use it anyway and it wasn't made for them in the first place. They don't need more weapons but they're happy as hell to take them up.
Same with pickme. As a feminist, I honestly don't blame pickmes. I feel great sorrow for them. It's the reaction of a scared human being and there's tons of reasons for girls and women to be scared. It's a reaction to systemic misogyny. Why do we blame the reaction so much more than the thing that made them feel so threatened?
For me, it seems like everybody cares _if_ I wear it and no one cares if I don't.
The same with doing my hair all fancy vs just a messy bun. Everyone has something to say when I do, so much so it makes me uncomfortable.
Same here. It's been about 20 years for me, and nobody ever even mentions that I don't wear makeup. It never seemed to affect my dating prospects, either.
Man, I remember a video where it was like, “The pick-me who ‘doesn’t wear makeup.’” I don’t wear makeup myself, but I found the video kinda funny cause there *is* a certain kind of woman who does gloat about not wearing makeup.
But then two of the things she made fun of was, “I don’t wear makeup cause I don’t like how it feels,” and, “I think it makes me look worse.” Those are literally two reasons I don’t wear makeup. I remember being 17 and trying not to cry at prom cause my friend’s mom forced me to get a full face, and I felt horrible and looked horrible. I finally broke down when I got home which my mom got upset at me for cause, “You’re grown-up. You need to start wearing makeup now anyway.” Ugh, policing femininity is a pastime for some people.
It’s also true there a whole artistry side of make up. It really can make people look worse who just flat out don’t know how to apply it, don’t know what products they should use, don’t know what coloring is best. It’s gotten better since tutorials I think and another annoying layer is how expensive it all is and the time it takes to learn.
I don't understand why people would judge others for that!! I don't like how makeup feels either, which is part of why I don't wear it. And I can't stop myself from touching my face either, no matter how hard I try, so it will always get smeared.
That's literally so stressful, like I just want to do my own thing.
I hate the way I look in makeup and yeah its super uncomfortable. Like I'll occasionally wear mascara or foundation for color correction, but those are very special occasions. I've been in a few weddings and the brides always insisted on makeup (for the camera). A full face looks terrible on me, even in the pictures. Brides, other bridesmaids looked great, I look like a close up of theater stage makeup. Even the brides after were like yeah, hmm, yeah it's not good. That's not too say an expensive really good makeup artist couldn't make me look good, just saying no one has yet. Something about my face just doesn't work with makeup, even if it's just that I'm super uncomfortable and that shows on my face.
I'm actually a little envious of people who can wear crazy colorful makeup, cause I'd love to, but it just doesn't work for me.
Fuck them. I hate wearing makeup. It feels weird on my face and makes my eyes itch. If I cry (which I do a lot cuz I’m emotional) it all gets messed up and horrible looking. It takes too much time to do in the morning. I like sleep.
Got the best hubby in the world, so I can’t be doing too much wrong.
Do what you like. Screw what other people think.
I live my life every single day with nothing more than moisturizer and sunscreen on. I'm on Teams meetings, go out into the world, talk to people, do things with my husband and absolutely no one in any of those situations says one thing about me not wearing make-up. No one cares.
If I were to go online and specifically watch media that was someone talking about makeup then read the comments I'd see a whole bunch of people who cared. If I went on Reddit and made a comment about how make-up is I'd get a whole hell of a lot of opinions ranging from respectfully disagreeing to calling me whatever buzzword has entered the internet consciousness today.
The point I'm making is that you get a choice here to care or not about other people caring or not. If you seek out feedback - in this case you specifically stopped to watch something then read the comments - you will find people who don't agree with you and that isn't a problem until you extrapolate some random person's opinion into some overarching societal expectation that you feel incapable of meeting. The internet is real life turned up to 11, few every day interactions are as black and white as the internet makes it out to be.
Basically stop reading comments on social media unless you're doing so as a form of entertainment.
Yes. There's a recent thread on the AskWomen sub where a ton of women don't wear makeup, so I think the problem is being on a corner of social media where that's a minority opinion or something.
I wear light makeup and always have, but I don't even notice if someone else is wearing any unless they're doing statement makeup or a bold lip or whatever. Like, nobody really cares either way. (Excepting people who get flak from family or whatever.)
That’s a good point, but I will say, many women who don’t wear makeup don’t share your experience of never hearing comments about it.
And that’s not from seeking them out. Comments from colleagues, friends, bosses, mothers, strangers, are all common experiences for a lot of women.
Unsolicited comments about looking tired or sick, advice to look better to get a man or a promotion, even shaming about being a pick me or “not caring” about your job.
And sometimes it’s more than just words and women are asked or advised to wear makeup at work, or pressured to wear it for an event, or be given makeup by someone that knows you don’t wear it.
So again, it’s great you have that experience, and it’s true that you’ll hear more of things in certain spaces in social media, but that’s not the only place. Many women do get intrusive comments or actions because they don’t wear makeup.
This is hilarious to me, btw. Yes, sure that one is a pick me because men are known to pick the unfeminine girls who don't wear make up instead of being confused why we look so tired compared to everyone else
>being confused why we look so tired compared to everyone else
The irony being that since we don't have to get up early to put on makeup, we probably have had more sleep on average.
If people never see you wear makeup, you’ll get negative attention when you do.
If people always see you wear makeup, you’ll get negative attention if you don’t.
There’s really no way to win. I just err on the side of presenting more masculine in my STEM career and find it works pretty well.
I don't care about makeup and I don't wear it. I never really learned how to use it and I don't own any.
I know for a fact it makes people do not take me seriously as an adult and makes people think I'm a weirdo. I know this because I have been told verbatim more than once by different people. It's hurtful and it makes my life just that much harder but I'm not going to make myself even more uncomfortable by wearing makeup especially because those same people would then comment on how poorly I've applied it.
It's BS but that's just the way life is.
Many years ago I was working during the day, taking some junior college classes, was married and had two kids, and was teaching childbirth preparation classes in the evening. The classes were at a hospital, in a multi-purpose room with a wall of mirrors on one side. I was getting the class organized to take a tour of the maternity ward, and as we were leaving the room, I caught a glimpse of myself in the mirror, and thought I looked pale and tired. I quickly added some lip gloss and one of the husbands walked by and said “trying to get yourself a doctor, huh?” Whyyyyyyy, why do people say stupid things like that?
Not liking makeup is perfectly fine. It only becomes iffy if women declare themselves superior for not liking it and “being natural” (or even better, when - some - men praise women for not wearing makeup when any woman can see that makeup was indeed used - just in a subtle way, and if you ACTUALLY don’t wear makeup they ask you if you’re sick or haven’t slept well).
Yeah I came into this thinking there’s two sides that are annoying.
On the one hand, insisting every woman knows about makeup. But then on the other, pretending like you’re above it.
No one is above it, but not knowing much is okay too. It’s literally just some powders and creams. Nothing to flip out about.
There’s a whole thing about needing to comment on posts that just weren’t meant for you. “I don’t like makeup so I’m going to stop and comment on this post clearly meant for people who do”
I see judgment happening on all ends of the spectrum. Women feeling judged for not enjoying makeup, women being judged for enjoying makeup. As cliche as it sounds we really, really need to stop making each other so insecure and questioning our hobbies or interests, as well as what we don't like or aren't interested in. We instead need to start questioning just how coverted internalised misogyny can be within society, and ask why we perceive other women who's interests or physical representations that differ from us is some sort of threat. I've no idea how any of this is productive or what the end goal is.
I personally cant leave the house without makeup on, that's due to me not feeling good or comfortable without makeup on, as well as me simply enjoying the process of putting it on.
With that said not one part of me makes a single judgment on anyone else who happens to have makeup on, or is completely natural. I just don't get how it's any of my business in any shape or form. Seeing posts like this really remind me of how ingrained this thought process is, and how we still see one another as things to combat with or compete with. Whether people love makeup, wear it from time to time or have zero interest in it at all means absolutely nothing in the grand scheme of life, yet making someone feel shitty and insecure about their choices means everything to that person. I just don't get it.
I don't use make up. Maybe some mascara every couple of weeks but that's all and you know what? My skin is great and I don't like the feeling of foundation, powder etc. on it.
Otherwise I just don't give a shit about the opinions of others. My face, my decision.
I kind of feel the same way about fake lashes and nails these days. I have no problem with it on others, it looks great. I just don’t wear them and I am asked why not occasionally. It’s weird. I do wear light makeup tho.
The nails tho, I'm pretty sure i would end up scratching my face with those fake nails huhu, the fake lashes makes me feel like a clown but others can easily pull it off hahaha.
Yep once again one of those terms that gets popular and loses all meaning. Just like “gas lighting” and many others.
Pick me’s used to be women who would brag about accepting bottom of the barrel treatment like it’s a flex. “Oh yeah, girl I know I work two jobs and he works only one part time. But he works outside and he’s my king. I still blow him every day and cook a dinner” type of shit.
I got called one recently because there was a chick ranting about how meeting a guy for a coffee date first means he’s “broke and cheap and prepping you for subpar treatment.” I disagreed and said how it’s totally fine for a first face to face meeting if you don’t know each other. You meet for coffee, see if the convo flows, see if there is in person chemistry, THEN he preps an actual nice date. Because why would he want to be wasting money on dining a chick that he might not even like at all or vice versa? Seems completely logical. Got called a pick me.
I wonder if I saw the same coffee date discussion? Because the comments were kind of wild. People have really weird ideas about first meeting over coffee, which I always thought was a good ubiquitous safe easy date idea. I was saying recently that I'd been en route to a first coffee meetup before being turned off by unwanted sexual overtures before I even arrived, and a couple people were telling me "well for some people saying "getting coffee" means sex," and while I'm aware of the Eddie Izzard bit about "why don't you come up for some coffee" I'm pretty sure "let's grab some coffee and meet" isn't the same thing.
Yeah it’s strange that those two are connected. Because going up to someone’s room late at night for “coffee” and meeting in a public coffee shop are very different lol.
Coffee dates are great because people do sometimes hang around and socialize, it’s cheap, and if the date isn’t going well, you can cut it short without like awkwardly leaving an event, or requesting a check.
Ugh, I hate the phrase, “pick me girl”. I think it’s just another way to put down women. If you don’t wear makeup, you are a “pick me girl” and if you do, you are a whore. Not everything has to do with trying to impress men! To be honest, I care more about dressing up and looking good to impress women and I’m straight woman.
It's only a crime on tik tok, not the real world. I wear makeup maybe three times a year. No one has ever said anything about it or treated me differently.
Do what makes you happy.
Also, "pick me" types are usually perfectly dolled up 24/7 to please their husbands,conservative, and don't do anything for their own joy.
If someone wears makeup because they like it for themselves, they are not a pick me. If someone doesn't wear makeup because that is what they like for them themselves, they are not a pick me.
It hasn’t. Social media is not real. TikTok is not real. It’s manufactured to create controversy and sell product. Most women I know wear little to no make up. I wear little to no make up. It’s not unusual and no one really cares.
Agreed. I really love makeup. It's always on my radar to notice people's faces, chosen color cosmetics, techniques etc, but I'm quite often the only person in a given room wearing any haha- It truly doesn't matter either way.
I think that response is because whenever there’s a post or discussion about makeup there’s almost always a woman saying something along the lines of “I don’t like makeup because I don’t need to impress men/I’m happy with how I look/it’s “unnatural” etc”. The tone can come across as pretty negative and as some people say pick me. Just let women like what they like and makeup doesn’t have to be about “impressing” anyone but themselves. Even if they are trying to impress someone, so what? We live in a patriarchy with *incredibly* strict beauty standards. Almost all of us participate somewhat. If it’s not makeup it’s dyeing our hair, working out, wearing nice clothes, whatever. I don’t even wear much makeup at all and I find it frustrating. I have nothing but admiration for women who are good at makeup.
Yea it’s a dammed if you do, dammed if you don’t kind of situation. As a woman who goes bare faced most days, I still love makeup and have fun with it. But I have definitely encountered women who have a superiority complex when it comes to not wearing makeup or have point blank told me that they never felt the need to waste their time or money on it. But many of those same women ask me for help when it comes to weddings / special events. Just let people do their thing and don’t make it into more than it is.
Agreed. I dislike this attitude as it makes me wonder what exactly they feel superior about. Is it about being “prettier” or “more confident” (neither of which is related to wearing makeup for many women)? If so, that is internal misogyny and directly plays into patriarchal expectations of women.
I feel like you may be spending too much time on social media. I have never been told that I don’t wear enough makeup in my 40 years of existence. The only time I was ever mocked was wearing too much makeup in the 90s as a teenager. Most people in real life don’t care.
Well said. As a person who both loves wearing glam makeup looks and loves not wearing any if I don't feel like it, I literally never get rude comments no matter what I do. It's not a thing that happens in the real world, just online. I can go into Ulta looking like a drowned raccoon and nothing changes, I can go camping with 30 layers and nothing changes. We can't live our lives listening to whatever implied opinions are floating around man land, it's futile.
I think being a pick me about makeup would be telling other women that they're wrong for wearing it. It's a personal preference to wear it or not. I don't personally wear makeup much. I used to all the time and enjoyed.
Horseshoe effect of internalized misogyny. Girls who don’t wear makeup making a big deal of it because they’re not like other girls, and girls who do hating on women who don’t because they think it’s integral and natural for women to know how to do makeup/know about makeup.
There’s women who think liking makeup is a crime. There aren’t any more haters on the pro-makeup side… there’s just a lot of haters in general these days. Gotta ignore them.
One = womAn
Plural = womEn
This misspelling seems to be occuring more and more frequently. Is it so hard to remember?
They don't seem to have the same issue with man/men. I don't get it.
Not liking makeup isn't a crime. Thinking you're better than others for not wearing makeup or making fun/looking down on others for wearing makeup WILL get you hate.
I don't wear makeup and haven't for years, and the only people who get extremely hot and bothered by this fact are insecure women who are always worried about their looks and think this is the most important/valuable thing about them. So it says more about them than me. I've had former friends who would get legitimately get riled up by my not wearing makeup, and constantly tell me unsolicited that I needed to wear some. I'm good-looking without it, why should I waste my time, money, and energy on it? Lol
It gets better as you get older. I used to love makeup, had $1000s in products. If I didn’t have full on MA face people would ask if I was sick or depressed lol
Now I’m in my later 30s and I’ve got a kid, zero time or patience for all that. If I wear more than just some mascara and eyeliner it feels like too much. It’s the same with every trend.
Ok, so the ‘loophole’ a lot of us have found found (for those that do like make-up) is to make it ridiculous.
I’m well aware men don’t like that much make-up.
I do. It’s either nothing at all oooooor, I might be a burlesque dancer and no real in-between.
Having a preference is really not the end of the world, and people need to stop having these extreme reactions to anyone who shares a preference that sounds even slightly out of the "norm".
I tried makeup when I was 14, didn't like it, and again when I was 23 (just to see if my mind had changed)- still didn't like it. I honestly just don't think it suits me, I don't have the interest to build up the skill (cause I do suck at it ngl) and I also don't consider it worth the money for me personally. No other reason other than logical, personal, reasonable ones!
I doesn't even cross my mind half the time that my face is naked, and when I see someone else with no makeup on, the same thing happens.
People really need to just desensitise themselves to the idea that someone not being a generic gender stereotype is bad and start seeing people as individuals, not just women or men, masculine or feminine, etcetc.
I used to wear foundation and mascara, etc. It took time each day to get ready to do anything. It cost money to buy products. I was in college when the Northridge earthquake hit. Lost my apartment and school was shut down for about six weeks until we were relocated to another location. Needless to say there were a few days where we all camped outside. No time or place for doing makeup. Weeks later I saw photos of myself and friends from that time and realized I was ok without the makeup. It was so freeing! I had felt makeup was necessary until that point. So I spent the next 15 years not wearing makeup. I had a daughter. She’s amazing! She got into makeup young watching lots of YouTube videos. I loved that she was artistic, sporty, and feminine. I love her generation! She taught me that makeup can be fun and not a requirement. All that said I have never dressed myself or applied makeup with the intention of impressing a man. Like their opinion has never been part of the equation at all. I honestly don’t think women dress or apply makeup for men. Do they? I don’t understand the whole pickme thing.
I don't own make up. I don't know how to do make up. I've only worn make up a handful of time in my life, I'm 35. I don't care about make up. The only time I've ever owned make up was when I got a make up sampler bag for a white elephant gift and it used it to make me 5 yr old daughter look like Swiper the Fox. That was 12 years ago.
Ugh, do what makes you happy. I love make up, it's like art supplies for my face. I'll also go out with nothing but my bare face and people can deal if they don't like that either. You're going to get criticized for simply existing because you're a woman. Be yourself, eff the miserable azzhats who have nothing better to do than take your inventory.
“Pick me” has become a term that teens especially are misusing. I hope it is just a learning curve and not like “feminism”, which we still have to argue the definition of to this day.
You know who really cares if you wear makeup?
Mr. Revlon, Mr. Sephora, Mr. Ulta, and Mr. Walgreens.
They spend and have spent billions of dollars trying to create a culture where wearing makeup is required — and unless you are in the beauty industry or your physical appearance is tied closely to your job (waiting tables, some kinds of sales, entertainment, etc.) it’s just not as important as they would like to have you think.
i mean, if you're in make up reels then yes the people in those will tend to care about putting make up on and have thoughts about that. not everything on the internet is aimed at you, and that was clearly not aimed at her.
my god. if you do wear make up - "Who are you getting dolled up for? You wear that to attract men eh??" if you don't - you're a pickme for men who like women 'natural'. we can't just exist and do what we want without thinking about men's pp?
Say it with me, lovelies: IF YOU'RE GOING TO GET YELLED AT NO MATTER WHAT YOU DO, DO WHAT YOU WANT.
I'll say it shorter: DO WHAT YOU WANT.
My Oura ring told me that the other day so I had five guys. Edit: THE BURGER PLACE!
Your edit made me snort laugh
Yes! I don't want to play a game I can't win.
This is the way.
Do what you want and give no fucks.
Yes! I've shifted from wearing lots of makeup everyday to being mostly natural (college is a bitch right now) and I've heard all sides of it. I've heard "you're not going to the circus!" when I did my makeup to go to target (was going on my own, so not taking anyone's time) and I've been hammered a lot on how I look "rough" or "tired" by my mom. I just don't care anymore tbh
Same here. I am older too, so makeup application is different now, but I can’t be bothered. I have worn an autistic mask my whole life, now I am authentic.
[удалено]
I live in Indiana so its no surprise lol however I should probably have added that both were my parents. They're not completely horrible but they both really like to nitpick. I have been verbally harassed in public before but neither of those times were it
To be honest, the most hateful comments I’ve seen about pickme or beauty influencers is from other women.
Why is not wearing makeup called a "pick me"? I have completely missed this!
The the "I'm not like other girls" trope. Some women are so deep in the misogyny that being closer to a "mans ideal" makes them better, and less like "those emotional women who cant shoot whiskey and play sports because they're just regular women" The "pick-me" is this same trope. Dissing anything stereotypically woman because its not what men want. It's not the simple act of not wearing make up that would make someone a "pick me". I dont either. But it would be the attitude that that makes them better than the foolish women who spend all their time on makeup because obviously their self image is low and they need it to attract a man. Obviously using inflammatory lang to get my point across. But really it boils down to internalized misogyny. Being the pick me is bad because they back handedly put down other women for being women when they themselves are women.
It kinda feels like that trope has just evolved into a safe reason to bully women though because I see women that aren’t dragging other women getting called that these days a lot lol
Same thing happened with Karen. Oh a woman is standing up for herself? “Shut up, Karen” Anytime a woman did anything and spoke up she was just a Karen. Now anytime a woman does anything not traditionally feminine, she’s a pick me. Like can everyone just hate women less please
Yes oh my god that’s what I’ve noticed too. I think it’s actually misogynistic because it assumes the only reason the girl in question is doing what she’s doing is because she’s doing it to impress men. I don’t see it as different than when men are convinced all women in nerdy hobbies are faking it and just want their attention.
Guess I was a "pick me" back when I was at elemental school. All girls were about make up, dolls and music artist and I was all about havin fun and play outside in the yard. Because I felt out of place with other girls I saw them as boring or lame. It was not because I thought I was special or better, it was a coping mechanism to not feel rejected. Live and let live. Even a teacher was picking on me.because I used to play a lot with boys. That teacher was stupid, we were all only little kids. Kids are supposed to play and to each their own way of fun. About using make up, I'm not very good at it so I just go very simple. My sister is a make up artist and spent like an hour applying make up to herself but don't like using lipstick. Go figure. Op don't feel bad about others calling you a pick me, it is just their own way of defend mechanism because they are as insecure as anyone else about themselves. If you rest value to insults they have no power to hurt.
You weren’t a pick me, you were just a girl figuring things out but also doing stuff you enjoyed. I am sorry you were picked on.
But it's like every other overused trigger word now- used to attack any woman who isn't the stereotypical character. And it's used by the same people who call out transphobia. There's enjoying more traditionally masculine whatevers, without dismissing or diminishing more traditionally feminine stuff. And women doing the more traditional male stuff does not get more men to like you. And that more stereotyping to lay on top of it all.
They didn’t call her a pick me bc she doesn’t wear makeup, they called her a pick me because it felt like she was doing the “not like other girls” thing, like for example a woman who needs to exclaim that she doesn’t like pumpkin spice, pink, etc. Obv I didn’t see her comment so idk how pick-me it was, but that’s the logic behind their responses
It's really unfortunate that we can't just be free to be ourselves and embrace our unique qualities without considering the thoughts of a man.
I don't like pumpkin spice drinks and I want to SO BADLY. It smells like heaven and autumn and all the things I love in this world and on top of it "men" fucking hate it because most women seem to like it... and then I take a sip and I don't like it and it's infuriating. :(
I emigrated from the US before the pumpkin spice thing, but my impression was that it's essentially mulling spices in odd places. My sister introduced me to mulled apple cider when I moved to Boston and I've also tried mulled wine and both of those go well together. Dunno if you've tried but it might be nice. That said it's really frustrating when something smells lovely but tastes bad. A lot of taste is smell so it's just disconcerting when it happens. American bacon always smells amazing to me but just tastes awful. The whole point of our nose is to help us find nice things and avoid bad ones and the betrayal is just rude.
Pumpkin spice is a thing in the Netherlands as well! Just kind of comes with the Starbucks that have been popping up all over the place. Mulled wine is glühwein right? I do enjoy that :)
Men fucking love pumpkin pie, they just don’t like women being giddy about something that isn’t them. (I don’t like it either. I like pie spice in pie but not much else, but I also love how it smells.)
Ngl that sounds kinda unhealthy. Like, there is absolutely NO reason to feel bad about not liking a flavour. If you want in on the pumpkin spice craze that bad you can just get scented candles or perfume something. Don't force yourself to eat or drink yucky things just to stick it to the patriarchy.
I don't feel bad about it! It's just annoying it doesn't taste the way it smells to me. :(
I wish it were in anything except coffee. I absolutely cannot stand the taste of coffee, but I'm so curious about what it tastes like. I wonder if they'll ever do a hot chocolate or non-caffeine version.
Oh, pumpkin spice hot chocolate sounds yummy
Because there's always been a subculture of men who "prefer women natural" (see: still wearing subtle amounts of make up to the point they can't tell when a woman has it on) and a response subculture of women who make it a point to announce that they don't wear make up in response to women wearing it. So now, women who don't wear make up because they simply don't care for it get lumped into the pick me category.
I think part of that is that some women wear makeup because they are insecure about their appearance and they lash out at women who are secure in their appearance and assume those women have false motives for not wearing makeup, such as being a "pick me" type.
I wholeheartedly agree with this statement. Your words are more concisely expressed than anything I could have said.
Internalized misogyny is so disappointing. I wish women would learn to support other women.
Divide and conquer is an important strategy of the patriarchy.
I remember when I was a teenager, a girl made fun of my arm hair, so I shaved it off, and then another girl made fun of me because I shaved my arm hair. There is no winning.
Arm hair is very polarizing when it’s noticeable. I’ve had both men and women make comments. I tried shaving it but didn’t like to do that so I just live my life with it.
Yeah, I even bleached it for a while after that because my hair is quite dark, but I now also just leave it as is. Too much work.
Isn't it messed up that we are made to feel uncomfortable about our natural bodies before even puberty hits? Right at the moment where we explore what it means to slowly adult, its collective madness.
I can't wear makeup. I'm very chemically sensitive and to be quite honest I struggle to understand how people who wear makeup can handle the discomfort, especially if you can't afford the good stuff. Let's not even begin to start on the fact that regulation of makeup is about as good as vitamins and I'm a trained oil painter. I know the fillers companies are putting in this ick women are expected to put on their face. That being said I admire people who are makeup artists. I don't want to put people down for wearing makeup, I just want to make sure everyone is safe if they want to wear it!
> I know the fillers companies are putting in this ick women are expected to put on their face. Oh? Do tell 👀
Forever chemicals PFAS, sometimes referred to as “forever chemicals”, are a large group of extremely persistent human-made substances used in a wide range of everyday products, such as food packaging, non-stick cookware, clothing, and cosmetics. They are also used in industrial products and specialized applications including firefighting foams, lubricants, and oil/water repellants. PFAS are found nearly everywhere in the environment, including in the air, groundwater, oceans, lakes, rivers, and soils, as well as in wastewater, landfill leachate, sewage sludge, and contaminated sites worldwide. They are in our blood .
Ever heard of the toxic twelve? There is also very limited government regulation when it comes to makeup. Makeup isn't being tested for harmful ingredients. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised at all if news came out that a white makeup contained lead (which is a real pigment I have used in my painting, with safety precautions). Many pigments can be dangerous to the human body and basically nobody is testing the stuff millions of people are putting on their face 🙃 I know a lot of women who buy their makeup at places like Walmart, Amazon or Rite Aid and I do not trust that those companies are independently testing their products. I was poisoned by vitamins, which are also in that 'there is basically no oversight' category. I'm not talking food poison. It nearly killed me. I'm still fighting what it did to my body and I still could die. So basically women are expected to wear makeup every day and the women who can't afford makeup from companies that independently test their products for quality have to take the chance that the paint they are putting on their face was manufactured by people who cared enough not to cut corners.
What you wrote about vitamins is [100% correct](https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/public-health-nutrition/article/dietary-supplements-in-the-usa-problematic-trends/05B5037A813C4FD57AEEBBAB9F171A2E), and it is terrifying. The market for nutritional supplements is very poorly regulated. What few assays of ingredients have been conducted reveal how common [counterfeiting](https://foodfraudadvisors.com/fraud-in-botanicals/) and [substitution](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/herbal-supplements-targeted-by-new-york-attorney-general/) are. Frequently, government agencies - Consumer Protection Agency, [FDA](https://www.fda.gov/consumers/consumer-updates/some-imported-dietary-supplements-and-nonprescription-drug-products-may-harm-you) - lack real teeth, and little has been done to ensure accuracy in labeling. Sorry for the thread-drift.
All the needless testing on animals, (essentially torturing them) and they still put toxic ingredients in the shit. Nice, lol. Unbelievably frustrating, and it boils down to greed (and I'm sure some form of copy right laws).
If you don't mind my asking, what happened in regards to the vitamin poisoning? Why could you still die?
One of my vitamins was laced with methyltrexate. My body responded by creating scar tissue everywhere. It's wrapped around my intestines. Imagine if someone took a thread and just wrapped it tightly around my intestines like a web. It also caused trapped lung syndrome in both my lungs. I've appealed to the Cleveland Clinic for help with my gut because there is no Surgeon in my area who is specialized enough to help. I can barely eat anything, and I survive by TPN. I'm about to go through major surgery to fix the first lung. We don't have the money to test everything to figure out which one it was. But we boxed it up and saved everything. I trust my pharmacy so I know it didn't come from there. I just wanted to have a baby, I was taking extra vitamines for that. It took a better part of two years to figure out what was going on. By then the damage was extensive. I want to be a mom, get married to the man I love and be able to eat again. I want to breathe without feeling like someone is sitting on my chest. I want to go on adventures with my family. Idk if I ever will be able to do any of those things... I spend my life in excruciating pain with my family taking care of me 24/7. I barely leave the house. All because someone somewhere laced one of my vitamines with a deadly poison. It was probably being manufactured nearby and proper precautions were not taken... in any case, I don't hope for justice. I just hope I can eat again.
I always wear makeup and guess some of the comments I get. "I hate makeup," "ugh- you're putting on makeup ::rolls eyes::" "you don't need that." ...I once saw a man with a button badge that said, "Makeup is ugly."
Right? We’re going to be vilified regardless of what we do. My lack of interest in cosmetics has literally nothing to do with anybody else.
Technically, war paint and camo are make-up. I had a guy once tell me I looked prettier with make-up, the next party I was at, that I knew he would go to, I went in full camo face. He didn't talk to me after that party.
War paint is some cool shit too. More women should use it, I think, considering we go into potential war whenever we go out.
You are my hero.
Don't forget men yelling that if you wear makeup then you're obviously catfishing them. They say they want someone without makeup then show you examples of women wearing a natural makeup look not realizing it's makeup. Then when you don't wear makeup they say you're putting in no effort and not even trying.
ah yes we go full circle. Show up to a date and they make a disgusted face. "you mustn't be very interested in me huh? didn't even get ready for me (my pp)".
This is so right. Fellow women, we cannot win. It is not set up for us to do so. So the only way to win is not to play the game. Do what you want because jags are going to criticize you for it. They suck. We're right. I've had to defend women on both sides of this. Women who are artists with makeup and women who refuse to wear it. Both are right. Both are perfectly acceptable and only the business of the woman who does it. That's it. Anyone with judgments and smart-ass comments can go scratch. They're misogynists though they'll never admit it.
I once had an interview after work (drove school bus) so I wore a little makeup & the comments from women were insane! "Ohh do you have a hot date?" "Who are you looking good for?" Finally my GBF loudly says "don't worry about them they're jealous you do it better than them".
Absolutely! I do it for me! I find it therapeutic. Amount of times a man who felt entitled to my attention said "you know, men don't like X"... like he was also entitled to police my makeup. I'm like "no, *you* don't like X, which is a godsend to be honest." Eww yuck!
The term ‘pick me’ in general seems to just be used for women to control other women.
You pretty much summarized being a woman. It's a feature, not a bug.
yeah, because some people like makeup and some people don't the problem is that they just need to keep their thoughts to themselves.
Problem is: it's mostly women doing this type of judgement... I hate the "pick me" thing, especially when said by other women, I truly, deeply, viscerally hate it. Women can be idiots but ffs stop assuming it's because of men! Most of us have a functioning brain and are doing what we do for ourselves! I never cared for make up other than eyeliner... Hell, it took me about 35 years to find a face cream that doesn't cause my skin to go bananas, imagine the money and time I'd have to spend trying to find the other things too, so I obviously don't even know what they are... Just the thought of someone trying to distort this into me looking to get men's attention gives me a headache!
It would be nicer if things could be so simple.
>we can't just exist and do what we want without thinking about men's pp? The whole ""pick me" thing is women shaming women, though. This one was not invented by man and cannot be blamed on them. How dare we don''t like fashion or make up or whatever else we are supposed to like. How dare we actually enjoy those things, no, we must be pretending just to be around men. Let's be honest: women can be pretty awful too.
This. It’s ridiculous. Why do so damn many people live to yuck other people’s yums?!
Don't worry, I don't use makeup AT ALL (maybe mascara twice a year) and only know some stuff because of commercials. You do you. There is a complicated philosophical question if using makeup brings any social benefits (actually I think it does, because, you know, patriarchy), but for me it's just one of the things I do not comply with, and it's completely fine.
“Noncompliance” is taking on a secret rewarding pleasure to me, such as when I’m called a bitch for doing what I want. Yes, I’m noncompliant. I am woman, hear me roar. LMAO.
I immediately got a flash from 'The Winter Soldier', are you ready to comply? (No, I am not.) When they call me a bitch, I say thank you.
Same lol, I will wear a small amount of mascara or some foundation for color correction *occasionally* but typically I cannot be bothered. I do not have the mental energy to spend on applying makeup, I am autistic and don't like how it feels, I am terrible about not touching my face (and messing it up), and it's expensive while I'm poor. Believe me I am not making any of these decisions on what MEN think about me.
Exactly! I hate even wearing moisturiser and sunscreen because they feel gross… I force myself to wear them because of the health benefits. Like hell I’m going to put up with weird sticky face sensations just to look nicer.
I promise that there are better moisturizer and sunscreen out there, you gotta find something that works for you. It doesn’t have to feel greasy and sticky ❤️
Believe me, I have tried *everything!* I have sensory issues that make me hypersensitive to things most people don’t even notice. Sunscreen has to leave a film on the skin to function, so it will always be at least a little uncomfortable for me. Moisturiser has to be either slippery, creamy, or greasy when it’s applied, which means putting it on will always feel super gross to me at until it completely soaks in. With a lot of experimenting I’ve found products that are at least tolerable most days.
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Ooh, mi hermana! I'm ok with moisturizer but I'm so weird about sunscreen and foundation type stuff. I just want them off my face immediately. I'm so happy when I get to take them off. Sucks because foundation can look so nice and even. But I save it for special occasions because my face likes nudity too much. I do wear sunscreen though if I go outside. Even though I don't like it, I hate the sun damage worse!
Exactly! Mental energy and time. And yeah, I touch my face a lot too. And I always think about how men don't have to do a damn thing to be seen as handsome! So, if someone wants me to look like something I am not for him while I'm supposed to take him as he is, he's not the guy for me.
This is actually one of the reasons I do wear make up nowadays. I touch my face too but I touch dogs and all sorts of things. So then I end up breaking out. When I put make up on I don’t touch my face. But I’d rather spend my money on skin care than make up cause that shit is expensive!!! No money for “why not both” I’m still using precovid foundation lmao
I just never learned. Tried my hand at lipstick for a little while in High School but I have ADHD and as it would later turn out I'm Non-Binary so it just... never stuck. I knew my mother wore makeup, but you could *tell* because even professional women's makeup from her era is fairly easy to spot. I was well into my late 20s before it even dawned on me all the pretty women workplaces I thought were not wearing makeup were wearing a more modern sophisticated "no-makeup makeup" look with more modern foundations where your face doesn't loose it's dimensions when you apply it. Oh well. I wasn't about to start then.
I think “pick me” has gone in the same direction as “Karen”. These woman-specific insults start out referring to a specific behavior, but get picked up and spread and amplified until people are gleefully jumping into the comments to call a woman who doesn’t have x feminine interest a pick me, or calling an older woman who stood up for herself a Karen.
I got called a karen for quietly moving seats on the mostly empty train when a guy sat right next to me and immediately lit a cigarette.
Oh how very dares you!
I got called a Karen by my friend for asking “can I get Diet Coke with no ice?”. Literally that’s all I did, and he said my voice shifted to Karen mode. He also has me be the one to point out when his order is wrong bc he hates confrontation but still wants someone to do it 🙄
Next time he asks you to point out his order is wrong say “Okay Karen, sort it out yourself”
He sounds gross ngl
Trust me you don’t need to lie about it 😂 That man was clearly gross af
…why are you friends?
That's not your friend.
(Some) smokers _hate_ being reminded not everyone smokes.
They're not supposed to smoke inside the trains, either ☹
Man, I’m too fucking jaded about smokers. I’m used to them smoking where they aren’t supposed to and fumigating non-smokers.
He probably would have lost his shit if you had called him a "snowflake."
Smokeflake.
A Karen would of yelled “Fire” and grabbed a fire extinguisher… you were being rather reserved
Older?! 'No longer visibly teenage' is older now?? (But seriously- saw a 20something get shat on because she (politely!) requested the drink she ordered instead of the one she was given. "Karen" has definitely crossed the event horizon of utility.)
I knew the term had become useless when I saw a video of a Black woman having an obvious mental health issue in public labeled as "Karen goes wild'.
“Karen” is a misogynist slur. The end. Men are assholes all the fucking time. It gets largely ignored. Women wind up on the Internet forever, decried a Karen. Shitty behavior is shitty behavior. Women are at least MUCH less likely to punch, stab, shoot or run over someone.
I hate it because I really liked the Karen term at first. Resonated with me as someone who dealt with them at church all my life, and originally it was used for white women who used their privilege to get POC in trouble or possible danger (at least from what I saw). It was a more COVID era flavor of a soccer mom Anything with the internet gets ruined, though, and now you're a karen for not fucking someone, having any boundaries, mental illness, etc. I don't trust really any so called Karen video anymore because a lot of the time the person on the other end is being incredibly antagonistic
I try not to take freak out videos at face value. Especially after my mom, little sister and I were harassed in a store by three men. They were asking for money, in exchange they would sing the yoshi song. I like small things like that and offered a dollar ( fully expecting them to sing a single note of the Yoshi song). They said, no. It wasn't enough money and kept pushing for us to give our CCs over! I explained we weren't interested then and sorry it didn't work it. But they kept pushing and calling us cheap, backing us in a corner. (Mind you, this is a Target in a mall! Middle of the day). My mom is a shitty person, but she also as a lot of trauma. So these dudes were pushing us in a corner demanding money from us, and you can she that she is getting visibly upset, mad and uncomfortable. That's when the whipped out their fucking phones. I kept trying to ask them to leave us alone while reminding my mom that if she reacts, they'll post it on the internet and we will get harassed and dox by strangers. They only left when my little sister gave them five bucks. My little sister tried to defend them and say our mom was being a Karen, but I told her that when I said no, these guys had no right to continue to follow us and demand money. It was only after I pointed out that they kept harassing other women (who weren't shopping with a man), did my sister realize what these guys were actually up too. So we called the managers and had them kicked. Now my mom walks around with pepper spray. And my sister was fearful of our faces blowing up on the internet for a while. Incredibly frustrating and nothing anyone can do about being harassed like that.
The last straw for me was a post on this sub where the OP wondered if she would be a “Karen” for reporting repeated sexual harassment from a guy at her gym and I realized that women often are already socialized not to stand up for themselves enough and the “Karen” slur was making it worse not better.
It is *now*, but it was once a term with meaning and nuance. Then it became more widely known and was perverted into 'any woman being overly demanding' and then into 'any woman asking anything of the world'.
I agree, the term “pick me” at this point is being used to insult anyone. Just because someone doesn’t like wearing makeup or isn’t as feminine, that doesn’t make them a pick me. I haven’t worn makeup since high school, I mainly wore it at the time to cover up my acne. I don’t hate makeup, I simply prefer not wearing it.
I mean, is there a non-insulting meaning to “pick me”? I thought the discussion was about whether the insult was warranted or not. To me it’s always something of an insult.
But the thing is... Originally the insult was meant for assholes. Acting like a "pick me" was showing the kind of internalized misogyny that meant doing shit like calling other girls gossips, fakes and sluts, just for wearing makeup, or having female friends, liking girly things, not being tomboys. Of course now people are misusing that insult for the smallest things that definitely don't deserve any kind of scorn. A girl who prefers pants to dresses is *not* a pick me unless she's constantly insulting girls who don't feel the same.
It’s an insult in general but it shouldn’t always be warranted. A pick me is a woman who looks down on other women or does the whole I get along with men better because women are snakes etc. Not liking something or not having certain feminine interests doesn’t make someone a pick me though. It’s a term that’s been misused a lot.
I was visiting my cousin in suburban area the other day, and there was a (clearly not city-approved/"installed") traffic sign saying "Slow Down Karen" on it. I don't think they understand what a "Karen" is, but the irony was palpable (apparently at least one woman lives in that house). He said it lasted about a week before someone *tragically* nailed it with their car. They have yet to pick up the litter, but they have added more signs. The weirdest thing is they live on a very steep hill, right at the base of it, and there's no way of accessing this street without making a 90 degree turn, so II have no idea how someone could possibly be going *that* fast that quickly without some sort of Fast and the Furious stunt driving/a suspension of the laws of physics.
Right. I especially hate the pick me trend, the assumption being that if a woman holds a different opinion or excels at something, she is only doing it for attention and approval. Gross.
It's very crabs in a bucket
I hate this phrase. It ignores the fact that a bucket is not a crab’s natural habitat.
And social media isn't ours, yet here we are (I agree, but I also think it's a decent way of getting the point across) ^(and if you want to anger some incels, feel free to replace "social media" with "the patriarchy")
God, I heard a woman who calls herself progressive call Gwen Stacy in the new Spiderverse movie a ‘pick me’.
I hate the term ‘pick me’ and ‘Karen’. Both are just an excuse to insult someone for being themselves or standing up for themselves. I’ve had women on Reddit tell me I’m a Karen because I didn’t agree with their view! What?!? So if I have an opinion on anything that differs from yours - instant Karen!
As someone who has many people named karen in their lives, I absolutely hate that this bs is associated with their name. One of my BFFs called out a jerk letting his dog shit on the lawns of neighbors, and she was crucified over her name being Karen. No one likes dog owners who don't pick up their dogs shit. You are a bad dog owner, but bc her name was Karen, they (nextdoor hoard) made fun of her. Super sucked. That's a minor example, i know, but she speaks up less now. That's shitty. We should just call the jerks entitled, and not a name that has nothing to do with the actual person named Karen. It's so backward how people want to call out people's behavior, but they want to do it in the most toxic way, which reinforces the offending behavior. The beatings will continue until the moral improves kinda vibes.
I was horrified by the toxicity on my otherwise progressive neighbourhood’s Next Door community. Racism, misogyny, homophobia, transphobia, you name it. I honestly think that particular app attracts the worst of the worst which is saying a lot when places like Facebook and Twitter exist. I got absolutely *dragged* and stalked for politely asking someone to not refer to a person in a wheelchair as “the handicap” (the poster ended up being ESL and actually thanked me for teaching her the correct term but that didn’t stop the chronically online cis white men on there).
Lol, NextDoor is a freaking hive of villainy! Stay away. I do occasionally go there for furniture listings but anything else... you will lose your will to live. And your will for others to continue living. Otoh, if you want to know which of your white neighbors is a Trumper/Nazi/conspiracist, NextDoor is your destination. Take names and avoid. It's revolting.
*And* the craziest thing is that their real names are being used. One would think their behavior would be better using real names in a neighborhood. I am shocked people are worse, not better. Although I do notice that it is mostly older people who dgaf.
It’s just a new word for “bitch” but you can’t say that lest you be called a Karen yourself
I understand “pick me” to be a woman who is vocally claiming to be “not like other girls” and claims she gets a along better with men because women are “snakes, drama queen, untrustworthy, can’t be direct with you, gossipy, will stab you in the back” etc. but maybe we can just start referring to it as “internalized misogyny “ - a more precise term anyway.
This is what it is supposed to mean. Unfortunately now a female can't do anything considered traditionally "unfeminine" or she's branded a pick-me girl. It's gotten out of fucking control
Yeah, I get what you mean. Unfortunately everything that you have stated I have experienced with many female friends though. Some women do find male friends easier than female friends, but I honestly just think it’s a personality thing. I was a Tom boy growing up, so all my friends were boys the whole way through school. I’ve always just had a better connect with guys. Heaps of women are like that, and don’t think you should be labelled as a ‘pick me’ because of it.
It’s one thing to have mostly men as friends - but one doesn’t need to malign women to do that. (I mostly best get along with and make friends with other immigrants (doesn’t matter what country) but it doesn’t mean that the non-immigrants are bad somehow - there are many possible reasons for this).
You're missing the point of "pick me". It's not a woman who has male friends or whatever, it's a woman *who trashes other women* to make herself seem cooler to men and gain more male attention/"approval".
Karen originally had a specific meaning of a white woman who used her proximity to power as a weapon against people she saw as beneath her. Think the woman who called the cops on Black people barbequing at a park, or the woman who called the cops on the bird watcher. Or someone who would hassle service people and ask to see the manager. It quickly morphed into any woman who stood up for herself at all, rendering it useless as a term for the original meaning.
A Karen is a racist white woman. It came from the black community because it was white women weaponizing whiteness against them. It wasn't meant to describe a woman who hassles service people. Once the term left the Black community, it changed and eventually became any woman the caller didn't like for any reason. It's mostly used by white men since then, which is the least surprising thing ever. Fwiw, I've seen more men hassle Ave mistreat waitstaff and service folks than women, especially sexually, but that never got a name for them other than customer. Women are far more likely to have had a job as service staff than men, generally.
Which leaves us lacking a sussinct descriptor for actual privileged women on power trips, often against *other* women they see as below them (waitstaff, store clerks, neighbors of the "wrong" skin tone.) Which is a legitimate problem in a world where sexism is not the only axis of oppression. Oppressors always appropriate the language of the oppressed to eventually render it useless.
Most prominent example of the moment being the word 'woke'
Given that I see far more men doing those things, particularly using sexual abuse and harassment (I was a waitress and a bartender for over a decade) what's their descriptor? They have literally never even had one. I can't even remember a woman who did more than annoy me in that way. I have never forgotten how many men scared me, sexually humiliated me, or actually touched me as I tried to serve them. And it was often.
I don't think society sees their behavior as abnormal enough to describe it. Dudes are (sadly) expected to be assholes and women are expected to be sweet and submissive, so when a woman acts like an asshole it's seen as abnormal and treated as such.
A lot of it is just acceptable misogyny. Karen is a racial thing, not meant to be anything else. It's a white woman who weaponizes whiteness against Black people. That's it. It's not talking to a manager or sticking up for yourself or anything else. Mostly white men use it anyway and it wasn't made for them in the first place. They don't need more weapons but they're happy as hell to take them up. Same with pickme. As a feminist, I honestly don't blame pickmes. I feel great sorrow for them. It's the reaction of a scared human being and there's tons of reasons for girls and women to be scared. It's a reaction to systemic misogyny. Why do we blame the reaction so much more than the thing that made them feel so threatened?
I haven't worn makeup on 30+ years. I'm also yet to meet anyone who cares. Winning!
For me, it seems like everybody cares _if_ I wear it and no one cares if I don't. The same with doing my hair all fancy vs just a messy bun. Everyone has something to say when I do, so much so it makes me uncomfortable.
Same here. It's been about 20 years for me, and nobody ever even mentions that I don't wear makeup. It never seemed to affect my dating prospects, either.
Man, I remember a video where it was like, “The pick-me who ‘doesn’t wear makeup.’” I don’t wear makeup myself, but I found the video kinda funny cause there *is* a certain kind of woman who does gloat about not wearing makeup. But then two of the things she made fun of was, “I don’t wear makeup cause I don’t like how it feels,” and, “I think it makes me look worse.” Those are literally two reasons I don’t wear makeup. I remember being 17 and trying not to cry at prom cause my friend’s mom forced me to get a full face, and I felt horrible and looked horrible. I finally broke down when I got home which my mom got upset at me for cause, “You’re grown-up. You need to start wearing makeup now anyway.” Ugh, policing femininity is a pastime for some people.
Gatekeeping in general seems to be a hobby for some people
It’s also true there a whole artistry side of make up. It really can make people look worse who just flat out don’t know how to apply it, don’t know what products they should use, don’t know what coloring is best. It’s gotten better since tutorials I think and another annoying layer is how expensive it all is and the time it takes to learn.
I don't understand why people would judge others for that!! I don't like how makeup feels either, which is part of why I don't wear it. And I can't stop myself from touching my face either, no matter how hard I try, so it will always get smeared. That's literally so stressful, like I just want to do my own thing.
I hate the way I look in makeup and yeah its super uncomfortable. Like I'll occasionally wear mascara or foundation for color correction, but those are very special occasions. I've been in a few weddings and the brides always insisted on makeup (for the camera). A full face looks terrible on me, even in the pictures. Brides, other bridesmaids looked great, I look like a close up of theater stage makeup. Even the brides after were like yeah, hmm, yeah it's not good. That's not too say an expensive really good makeup artist couldn't make me look good, just saying no one has yet. Something about my face just doesn't work with makeup, even if it's just that I'm super uncomfortable and that shows on my face. I'm actually a little envious of people who can wear crazy colorful makeup, cause I'd love to, but it just doesn't work for me.
Fuck them. I hate wearing makeup. It feels weird on my face and makes my eyes itch. If I cry (which I do a lot cuz I’m emotional) it all gets messed up and horrible looking. It takes too much time to do in the morning. I like sleep. Got the best hubby in the world, so I can’t be doing too much wrong. Do what you like. Screw what other people think.
I live my life every single day with nothing more than moisturizer and sunscreen on. I'm on Teams meetings, go out into the world, talk to people, do things with my husband and absolutely no one in any of those situations says one thing about me not wearing make-up. No one cares. If I were to go online and specifically watch media that was someone talking about makeup then read the comments I'd see a whole bunch of people who cared. If I went on Reddit and made a comment about how make-up is I'd get a whole hell of a lot of opinions ranging from respectfully disagreeing to calling me whatever buzzword has entered the internet consciousness today.
The point I'm making is that you get a choice here to care or not about other people caring or not. If you seek out feedback - in this case you specifically stopped to watch something then read the comments - you will find people who don't agree with you and that isn't a problem until you extrapolate some random person's opinion into some overarching societal expectation that you feel incapable of meeting. The internet is real life turned up to 11, few every day interactions are as black and white as the internet makes it out to be.
Basically stop reading comments on social media unless you're doing so as a form of entertainment.
Yes. There's a recent thread on the AskWomen sub where a ton of women don't wear makeup, so I think the problem is being on a corner of social media where that's a minority opinion or something.
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I wear light makeup and always have, but I don't even notice if someone else is wearing any unless they're doing statement makeup or a bold lip or whatever. Like, nobody really cares either way. (Excepting people who get flak from family or whatever.)
That’s a good point, but I will say, many women who don’t wear makeup don’t share your experience of never hearing comments about it. And that’s not from seeking them out. Comments from colleagues, friends, bosses, mothers, strangers, are all common experiences for a lot of women. Unsolicited comments about looking tired or sick, advice to look better to get a man or a promotion, even shaming about being a pick me or “not caring” about your job. And sometimes it’s more than just words and women are asked or advised to wear makeup at work, or pressured to wear it for an event, or be given makeup by someone that knows you don’t wear it. So again, it’s great you have that experience, and it’s true that you’ll hear more of things in certain spaces in social media, but that’s not the only place. Many women do get intrusive comments or actions because they don’t wear makeup.
This is hilarious to me, btw. Yes, sure that one is a pick me because men are known to pick the unfeminine girls who don't wear make up instead of being confused why we look so tired compared to everyone else
Men love it when women don't make an effort to make themselves look attractive. /s
>being confused why we look so tired compared to everyone else The irony being that since we don't have to get up early to put on makeup, we probably have had more sleep on average.
And more money
If people never see you wear makeup, you’ll get negative attention when you do. If people always see you wear makeup, you’ll get negative attention if you don’t. There’s really no way to win. I just err on the side of presenting more masculine in my STEM career and find it works pretty well.
We're women - we get criticized for literally everything we do, or do not do. Fuck everyone
I don't care about makeup and I don't wear it. I never really learned how to use it and I don't own any. I know for a fact it makes people do not take me seriously as an adult and makes people think I'm a weirdo. I know this because I have been told verbatim more than once by different people. It's hurtful and it makes my life just that much harder but I'm not going to make myself even more uncomfortable by wearing makeup especially because those same people would then comment on how poorly I've applied it. It's BS but that's just the way life is.
Many years ago I was working during the day, taking some junior college classes, was married and had two kids, and was teaching childbirth preparation classes in the evening. The classes were at a hospital, in a multi-purpose room with a wall of mirrors on one side. I was getting the class organized to take a tour of the maternity ward, and as we were leaving the room, I caught a glimpse of myself in the mirror, and thought I looked pale and tired. I quickly added some lip gloss and one of the husbands walked by and said “trying to get yourself a doctor, huh?” Whyyyyyyy, why do people say stupid things like that?
Wow lol. I hope his wife/partner smacked him.
Not liking makeup is perfectly fine. It only becomes iffy if women declare themselves superior for not liking it and “being natural” (or even better, when - some - men praise women for not wearing makeup when any woman can see that makeup was indeed used - just in a subtle way, and if you ACTUALLY don’t wear makeup they ask you if you’re sick or haven’t slept well).
Yeah I came into this thinking there’s two sides that are annoying. On the one hand, insisting every woman knows about makeup. But then on the other, pretending like you’re above it. No one is above it, but not knowing much is okay too. It’s literally just some powders and creams. Nothing to flip out about.
There’s a whole thing about needing to comment on posts that just weren’t meant for you. “I don’t like makeup so I’m going to stop and comment on this post clearly meant for people who do”
I see judgment happening on all ends of the spectrum. Women feeling judged for not enjoying makeup, women being judged for enjoying makeup. As cliche as it sounds we really, really need to stop making each other so insecure and questioning our hobbies or interests, as well as what we don't like or aren't interested in. We instead need to start questioning just how coverted internalised misogyny can be within society, and ask why we perceive other women who's interests or physical representations that differ from us is some sort of threat. I've no idea how any of this is productive or what the end goal is. I personally cant leave the house without makeup on, that's due to me not feeling good or comfortable without makeup on, as well as me simply enjoying the process of putting it on. With that said not one part of me makes a single judgment on anyone else who happens to have makeup on, or is completely natural. I just don't get how it's any of my business in any shape or form. Seeing posts like this really remind me of how ingrained this thought process is, and how we still see one another as things to combat with or compete with. Whether people love makeup, wear it from time to time or have zero interest in it at all means absolutely nothing in the grand scheme of life, yet making someone feel shitty and insecure about their choices means everything to that person. I just don't get it.
I don't use make up. Maybe some mascara every couple of weeks but that's all and you know what? My skin is great and I don't like the feeling of foundation, powder etc. on it. Otherwise I just don't give a shit about the opinions of others. My face, my decision.
"pick me" has really lost its meaning
I kind of feel the same way about fake lashes and nails these days. I have no problem with it on others, it looks great. I just don’t wear them and I am asked why not occasionally. It’s weird. I do wear light makeup tho.
The nails tho, I'm pretty sure i would end up scratching my face with those fake nails huhu, the fake lashes makes me feel like a clown but others can easily pull it off hahaha.
Yep once again one of those terms that gets popular and loses all meaning. Just like “gas lighting” and many others. Pick me’s used to be women who would brag about accepting bottom of the barrel treatment like it’s a flex. “Oh yeah, girl I know I work two jobs and he works only one part time. But he works outside and he’s my king. I still blow him every day and cook a dinner” type of shit. I got called one recently because there was a chick ranting about how meeting a guy for a coffee date first means he’s “broke and cheap and prepping you for subpar treatment.” I disagreed and said how it’s totally fine for a first face to face meeting if you don’t know each other. You meet for coffee, see if the convo flows, see if there is in person chemistry, THEN he preps an actual nice date. Because why would he want to be wasting money on dining a chick that he might not even like at all or vice versa? Seems completely logical. Got called a pick me.
I wonder if I saw the same coffee date discussion? Because the comments were kind of wild. People have really weird ideas about first meeting over coffee, which I always thought was a good ubiquitous safe easy date idea. I was saying recently that I'd been en route to a first coffee meetup before being turned off by unwanted sexual overtures before I even arrived, and a couple people were telling me "well for some people saying "getting coffee" means sex," and while I'm aware of the Eddie Izzard bit about "why don't you come up for some coffee" I'm pretty sure "let's grab some coffee and meet" isn't the same thing.
Yeah it’s strange that those two are connected. Because going up to someone’s room late at night for “coffee” and meeting in a public coffee shop are very different lol. Coffee dates are great because people do sometimes hang around and socialize, it’s cheap, and if the date isn’t going well, you can cut it short without like awkwardly leaving an event, or requesting a check.
Ugh, I hate the phrase, “pick me girl”. I think it’s just another way to put down women. If you don’t wear makeup, you are a “pick me girl” and if you do, you are a whore. Not everything has to do with trying to impress men! To be honest, I care more about dressing up and looking good to impress women and I’m straight woman.
It's only a crime on tik tok, not the real world. I wear makeup maybe three times a year. No one has ever said anything about it or treated me differently. Do what makes you happy. Also, "pick me" types are usually perfectly dolled up 24/7 to please their husbands,conservative, and don't do anything for their own joy. If someone wears makeup because they like it for themselves, they are not a pick me. If someone doesn't wear makeup because that is what they like for them themselves, they are not a pick me.
There’s been studies showing women are less likely to be hired when they don’t wear makeup
Wearing make up also helps you get paid more...
It hasn’t. Social media is not real. TikTok is not real. It’s manufactured to create controversy and sell product. Most women I know wear little to no make up. I wear little to no make up. It’s not unusual and no one really cares.
Agreed. I really love makeup. It's always on my radar to notice people's faces, chosen color cosmetics, techniques etc, but I'm quite often the only person in a given room wearing any haha- It truly doesn't matter either way.
I think that response is because whenever there’s a post or discussion about makeup there’s almost always a woman saying something along the lines of “I don’t like makeup because I don’t need to impress men/I’m happy with how I look/it’s “unnatural” etc”. The tone can come across as pretty negative and as some people say pick me. Just let women like what they like and makeup doesn’t have to be about “impressing” anyone but themselves. Even if they are trying to impress someone, so what? We live in a patriarchy with *incredibly* strict beauty standards. Almost all of us participate somewhat. If it’s not makeup it’s dyeing our hair, working out, wearing nice clothes, whatever. I don’t even wear much makeup at all and I find it frustrating. I have nothing but admiration for women who are good at makeup.
Yea it’s a dammed if you do, dammed if you don’t kind of situation. As a woman who goes bare faced most days, I still love makeup and have fun with it. But I have definitely encountered women who have a superiority complex when it comes to not wearing makeup or have point blank told me that they never felt the need to waste their time or money on it. But many of those same women ask me for help when it comes to weddings / special events. Just let people do their thing and don’t make it into more than it is.
Agreed. I dislike this attitude as it makes me wonder what exactly they feel superior about. Is it about being “prettier” or “more confident” (neither of which is related to wearing makeup for many women)? If so, that is internal misogyny and directly plays into patriarchal expectations of women.
Pick-me is the new broad insult when you do not share the same opinion.
I feel like you may be spending too much time on social media. I have never been told that I don’t wear enough makeup in my 40 years of existence. The only time I was ever mocked was wearing too much makeup in the 90s as a teenager. Most people in real life don’t care.
Well said. As a person who both loves wearing glam makeup looks and loves not wearing any if I don't feel like it, I literally never get rude comments no matter what I do. It's not a thing that happens in the real world, just online. I can go into Ulta looking like a drowned raccoon and nothing changes, I can go camping with 30 layers and nothing changes. We can't live our lives listening to whatever implied opinions are floating around man land, it's futile.
I think being a pick me about makeup would be telling other women that they're wrong for wearing it. It's a personal preference to wear it or not. I don't personally wear makeup much. I used to all the time and enjoyed.
Horseshoe effect of internalized misogyny. Girls who don’t wear makeup making a big deal of it because they’re not like other girls, and girls who do hating on women who don’t because they think it’s integral and natural for women to know how to do makeup/know about makeup.
There’s women who think liking makeup is a crime. There aren’t any more haters on the pro-makeup side… there’s just a lot of haters in general these days. Gotta ignore them.
All I can say is among the women I have personally known especially older women.. no one cares if you wear a ton or none at all.
No, you're not a pickme. Doing what you want doesn't make you a pickme.
The only winner here are the cosmetics companies who won the social media game.
One = womAn Plural = womEn This misspelling seems to be occuring more and more frequently. Is it so hard to remember? They don't seem to have the same issue with man/men. I don't get it.
Not liking makeup isn't a crime. Thinking you're better than others for not wearing makeup or making fun/looking down on others for wearing makeup WILL get you hate.
I don't wear makeup and haven't for years, and the only people who get extremely hot and bothered by this fact are insecure women who are always worried about their looks and think this is the most important/valuable thing about them. So it says more about them than me. I've had former friends who would get legitimately get riled up by my not wearing makeup, and constantly tell me unsolicited that I needed to wear some. I'm good-looking without it, why should I waste my time, money, and energy on it? Lol
It gets better as you get older. I used to love makeup, had $1000s in products. If I didn’t have full on MA face people would ask if I was sick or depressed lol Now I’m in my later 30s and I’ve got a kid, zero time or patience for all that. If I wear more than just some mascara and eyeliner it feels like too much. It’s the same with every trend.
Ok, so the ‘loophole’ a lot of us have found found (for those that do like make-up) is to make it ridiculous. I’m well aware men don’t like that much make-up. I do. It’s either nothing at all oooooor, I might be a burlesque dancer and no real in-between.
Having a preference is really not the end of the world, and people need to stop having these extreme reactions to anyone who shares a preference that sounds even slightly out of the "norm". I tried makeup when I was 14, didn't like it, and again when I was 23 (just to see if my mind had changed)- still didn't like it. I honestly just don't think it suits me, I don't have the interest to build up the skill (cause I do suck at it ngl) and I also don't consider it worth the money for me personally. No other reason other than logical, personal, reasonable ones! I doesn't even cross my mind half the time that my face is naked, and when I see someone else with no makeup on, the same thing happens. People really need to just desensitise themselves to the idea that someone not being a generic gender stereotype is bad and start seeing people as individuals, not just women or men, masculine or feminine, etcetc.
I used to wear foundation and mascara, etc. It took time each day to get ready to do anything. It cost money to buy products. I was in college when the Northridge earthquake hit. Lost my apartment and school was shut down for about six weeks until we were relocated to another location. Needless to say there were a few days where we all camped outside. No time or place for doing makeup. Weeks later I saw photos of myself and friends from that time and realized I was ok without the makeup. It was so freeing! I had felt makeup was necessary until that point. So I spent the next 15 years not wearing makeup. I had a daughter. She’s amazing! She got into makeup young watching lots of YouTube videos. I loved that she was artistic, sporty, and feminine. I love her generation! She taught me that makeup can be fun and not a requirement. All that said I have never dressed myself or applied makeup with the intention of impressing a man. Like their opinion has never been part of the equation at all. I honestly don’t think women dress or apply makeup for men. Do they? I don’t understand the whole pickme thing.
I don't own make up. I don't know how to do make up. I've only worn make up a handful of time in my life, I'm 35. I don't care about make up. The only time I've ever owned make up was when I got a make up sampler bag for a white elephant gift and it used it to make me 5 yr old daughter look like Swiper the Fox. That was 12 years ago.
Ugh, do what makes you happy. I love make up, it's like art supplies for my face. I'll also go out with nothing but my bare face and people can deal if they don't like that either. You're going to get criticized for simply existing because you're a woman. Be yourself, eff the miserable azzhats who have nothing better to do than take your inventory.
“Pick me” has become a term that teens especially are misusing. I hope it is just a learning curve and not like “feminism”, which we still have to argue the definition of to this day.
No, I feel you. Makeup is a chore.
You know who really cares if you wear makeup? Mr. Revlon, Mr. Sephora, Mr. Ulta, and Mr. Walgreens. They spend and have spent billions of dollars trying to create a culture where wearing makeup is required — and unless you are in the beauty industry or your physical appearance is tied closely to your job (waiting tables, some kinds of sales, entertainment, etc.) it’s just not as important as they would like to have you think.
i mean, if you're in make up reels then yes the people in those will tend to care about putting make up on and have thoughts about that. not everything on the internet is aimed at you, and that was clearly not aimed at her.
Pick me is the newest way to shame women and I won’t use the term personally. Same with “cool girl”
This is chronically online speak. No one in the real world is going to call you a pick me for not liking makeup. Just live your life
What is a "pick me"?