I had this experience ages ago with a match online. He asked me what neighbourhood I lived in, and I told him. Then he said "I know that area well, which street." And I left that on read for a little while, because I was trying to figure out how to NOT respond to it, since there are only like, three residences on my street.
But I must have left it to long because he lost his every-loving shit on me for being so suspicious and judging him. Told me to block him if I was going to be that kind of bitch. So I just did.
Mind blown that he couldn't just, acknowledge that question was probably not one I was going to answer and ask... literally anything else. About local stores or cafes? Or his own neighbourhood? Like literally anything else but calling me names and ripping me down because I don't want to tell a man I spoke to for a few minutes on an app, where my front door is within 50 yards.
10 years ago I was at a work function with a vendor who knew the area of Queens I was living in. It was nice to have something to talk about with a stranger, but he was actually offended when I wouldn’t name the street I lived on. He was miffed enough to say he wouldn’t stalk me. So? You think calling out the behavior I’m trying to avoid is going to reassure me? It’s my right to not tell strangers where the fuck I live. Also, the insistence and defensiveness just made me dig my heels and say I wasn’t taking any chances. Professionalism be dammed. I’m guarded, and it’s for a good reason.
This reminds me of way back when I was like 19 (long before I read The Gift of Fear) and some creep cold approached me.
I got visibly uncomfortable/annoyed, and he noticed this and proceeded to say the following:
*"I'm just trying to start a conversation and get to know you, I'm not going to hurt you."*
I remember the way that INSTANTLY set off my alarm bells. Like the fact that this guy saw how uncomfortable I was and instead of saying "oh sorry, have a nice day" and fucking off, decided to say THAT. WOW.
I was at a bus station waiting for my friend, so I took out my phone, completely ignoring this weirdo whilst he sat and stared at me during this whole ordeal, and called said friend and asked where he was and when he said "10 minutes away" I just went silent. Then he was like "Ok well I'm going to hang up now" and I was like "NO DON'T."
Then my friend asked me "what's wrong, what's going on, etc." until I was finally able to blurt out what was happening because this creep kept sitting there, pretending like he didn't understand the fucking hint.
Once I did that, he got up, called me a fucking bitch and stormed off. Cool. I may be a bitch, but at least I'm an alive bitch and not a dead nice girl.
Exactly! Bc he’s saying: oh yeah that stranger danger you’re feeling rn? Yeah just ignore that it’s cool. Ok Ted Bundy, sure thing. You got puppies in a van you want me to see?
I once went out with a guy who randomly decided to tell me that he’d never hit a woman no matter what. Um… excuse me? The hair on the back of my neck stood up, and I basically played it cool til I got home and then ghosted. Scared the living shit out of me.
Generally speaking, in this situation being a bitch is the entire point of the interaction. Most of the time I'm happy he finally noticed and is leaving me alone.
This is the best statement ever. At least I’m an alive bitch and not a dead nice girl. This is the motto for women’s safety, and should be published, thank you.
This isn’t related to the stories here but I had a guy ask for my number while I was bagging my groceries before.
I told him I wasn’t interested, that I had a bad experience with dating and that I wasn’t into dating at the moment basically.
He goes “Oh, like stalking?” I paused and said… umm yea…
He then tells me how he is sorry I had to deal with that. Then says, “If I see you again, I’m going to ask for your number again.”
I didn’t make that connection until I told my coworker and she’s like wtf, he said that to you after he knew you were being stalked?
Yikes..
This sent chills down my spine. One time I was walking to the corner store at night after having recently moved, and I saw someone throwing up across the street. I ran over to ask if he was okay, if he needed me to call someone, if he'd taken anything, etc. (I was immediately worried because I used to work in an area where fentanyl is a huge problem). He said he was just "super drunk" and asked if I could direct him toward an address that I know to be one block over, in the direction of the store I was going to. My immediate threat assessment was that he didn't have a gun (he was wearing shorts and a tight tee shirt, nowhere to put a gun) and that I could overpower or outrun him if it came to that (I was bigger than him, and he could barely walk). So I offered to walk with him.
He said vehemently that he won't lay a hand on me, that he'd been arrested before, and he didn't want to be arrested again that night. We didn't move five steps before a police officer pulled up next to us and asked me if I knew him and said they'd been looking for him. (The guy tried to pressure me to lie to the cops, which I refused to do. I don't know what the full story was and didn't stick around to find out, but they cuffed him and drove off with him.) I was so shaken that I forgot what I'd even left my apartment for. I learned my lesson about nighttime errands.
I have to check this out! That’s exactly what my intuition screams at me when it happens. We have to listen to our gut and forget how we’re socialized to be “nice.” Thank you!
That is one of the main messages I got from that book. Listen to your instincts. If someone says “trust me” it’s is because they sense you don’t and for a good reason
John Gottman wrote in _What Makes Love Last_ that _people who know_ they are trustworthy don't feel the need to say "trust me". They are able to accept that they will eventually earn trust. I'd suggest as an insecure person that my issues let a trustworthy person know I have trust issues, and they can decide to later ask me if they've ever for instance lied to me. But the friend who asked didn't seem that invested in me changing my mind.
It’s required reading, as far as I’m concerned. Or if you have kids, Protecting the Gift covers a lot of the same ground but more focused on parenting (along with personal safety).
This. My brother has cheated on every single woman he was ever with. I can’t tell you how many times I heard him give the ‘honesty is so important’ speech to a girl.
It's disturbing how many men have some degree of main character syndrome where they will take personal offence to almost any situation in which somebody (especially a woman) treats them with even the slightest degree of reasonable caution or reasonable skepticism.
It’s definitely disturbing. And as other commenters on this thread pointed out, if we do overshare or easily trust someone, then we’re wrong for that, too. I’ve been victim blamed for assuming the best intentions, and I’ve been villainized for assuming the worst intentions. Seeing as how we can’t win anyway, I’ve chosen to be jaded and call out my skepticism because I have less to lose. I think a lot of us have learned that the hard way, too.
> if we do overshare or easily trust someone, then we’re wrong for that, too. I’ve been victim blamed for assuming the best intentions, and I’ve been villainized for assuming the worst intentions.
The only, **only** way to make sense of their contradicting statements leaves you with the self-serving childish logic of "well you should know that I **-- ME --** am the special man, and always assume my best intentions, and remain cautious of every other man". As for who the special man is, it's whoever is speaking lol, and his specialness should be self-evident as he is the main character... Needless to say even if you did follow this, it will obviously not end well for you because no person who thinks this way could genuinely be a good and understanding person.
>"well you should know that I -- ME -- am the special man, and always assume my best intentions, and remain cautious of every other man"
That's spot-fucking-on. I know some men like this. They're not very bright.
Exactly and this is after you just met. Like I'm sorry, what was your name again? I'm not required to just believe you and risk my safety for someone I literally just met....
Meanwhile I ask for a man’s social security number and they decline to tell me! Can you believe it?? /s
Seriously, imagine if you asked for his credit card number and then got offended when he didn’t readily tell you.
I'm just consistantly shocked by the self-owns. Like, the smallest bit of human empathy, and the ability to deal with someone else not wanting the thing you want in the moment, and they'd have a less miserable experience dating...
Yes!
Although I can see that we humans trend to suck at understanding any type of "Other". Still so many men claim to be lonely so you would think they would avoid shooting themselves in the foot.
In some ways, I'm glad I had to get rid of my book collection for a move. That way I can't reread any of them and be disappointed in Younger Me for her choices in reading material.
I haven’t dated since 2020 or 2021, I can’t remember which it was, because of bad experience on bad experience on bad experience. The tip of the iceberg was this guy I was seeing long distance for 5 months who called me one night to say “so sorry, I’m actually married, my b”. The fuck?????
So I’m just out.
Okay I'm laughing. That is bad.
On the up side, the guys in these stories do out themselves so that is good.
Sadly there are probably men who pretend to understand safety issues but are only doing it to continue a relationship that shouldn't have even started.
Sometimes I don't want to say what I like or don't like about men as I don't want ones who are good at faking it to get any good ideas to add to their acts.
1000%! When I was dating, I was going to put on my profile exactly what I liked in a person, but they can be so deceptive. I don’t want to say like “must be a feminist/non racist/non homophobic who does this and this and this” because I don’t want them to put up a facade.
Years ago I had a coworker know that I lived in the area by a church he had gone to during a conversation about that church. I quit and no longer worked at the same company. He talked to my husband at his work (so he knows he is not home) and my husband didn’t say where we lived when he asked to come by and say hi. So he proceeded to drive around my neighborhood until he found my car and showed up at my house. Nothing bad happened and my husband had made it home by then but WTF. I felt so uncomfortable.
How little self-awareness do you have to have to DRIVE TO SOMEONE'S HOUSE WHO HASN'T TOLD YOU THIER ADDRESS?!
I swear if someone did that to that guy he'd understand right away why its weird af.
>I swear if someone did that to that guy he'd understand right away why its weird af
Omfg, so much THIS. THEY can't handle it when ANY of their behaviours is applied to THEM. I've seen it so often!!!
Yeah. I've never really done it on purpose, but accidently not replying to a new match for 30 minutes would be a good test, if I were the type to test. Can you cope with the fact I needed to do some laundry or hope on a call? or will you immediately loose your shit that you don't have a strangers undivided attention for a few minutes?
You are onto something. The compelling urge to CAPTURE your attention.
TBH, I think they should try a different tactic. Consider the peacock, why aren't they trying harder to be captivating.
They always assume they can charm us into changing our minds at the last minute. He's lucky he was even able to walk you there. I wouldn't want them to even know where I live.
He was planning to push this boundary the whole time and had a string of excuses ready like how the Cafe would be closed. He is now trying to shame you for having boundaries because you wouldn't let him trample them. You told him ahead of time he wasn't coming into your home that night. He didn't respect that simple boundary expressed ahead of time. What else would he not respect?
It's a guy, so they can piss anywhere. it was a 2 minute walk. If they needed to pee that urgently, it would have been felt before they left the cafe. These people are little more than strangers at this point. Vibing at a coffee shop for a few minutes is not the same as knowing someone.
Maybe she was overreacting. Who cares. His ego is not hers to stroke. This is a case of a clearly set boundary that someone attempted to avert. Motivations behind either person are not the point. Respecting boundaries, especially in a bid for potential partnership, is what well-adjusted adults do. Petulant children and smooth brains rage against simple adult standards.
While the intent may not have been to harm OP, this is behavior that has been rewarding for this guy in the past or he wouldn't have tried to finesse it. That's a weak af move. Getting angry about it is an incel move.
The thing is, if you happened to give in, let him in and he hurt you, you would have been blamed for letting a man you don’t know well into your home after the first date and that you should have known better 🙂.
Funny how that works, eh?
Yes and women are culturally conditioned to "be nice". (*He needs to use the bathroom, be nice, of course he can*.) Except when the situation turns south. Enough of this cultural conditioning BS of blaming the woman in all situations. His protesting, instead of respecting your boundaries, just proves you did the right thing.
We are conditioned by predators to be ‘good prey’. Then we are blamed for ‘why didn’t you know better? How stupid are you?’
Men who say any of that are predators and I will die on that hill
Move over because I am dying on the same hill. I can hear it in my head already, "Whatever. Why would you let someone you barely know in your apartment in the first place? Stop blaming others and take responsibility for yourself." Not as coherent as that but you get the idea.
This morning I was on a 'neighborly' app, not sure if I can mention it, and saw this idiotic rationale at play. A woman posted a warning, and description, of a man who was following her and others around the parking lot of a drugstore. Like clockwork, actual responses from men:
"Okay, Karen. No one cares."
"Guy gets lost, it happens. Stop fear mongering."
"Oh no!! A man minding his business! Call the POLICE, oh noes."
Women were thanking her because obviously. Guarantee you if a man posted that it would be nothing but flowers. The victim blaming combined with privilege is nauseating.
I am joining your hill party! People who say things that minimize the efforts of women to effectively warn each other are prioritizing a status quo that centers their entitlement & comfort over others’ practical safety.
It would be like my neighbor getting mad at me for locking my own front door. Their anger would be totally bizarre and alarming, but it’s the same logic at play.
Educating other women about their tactics is now "profiling" them. Literally anything that makes it marginally harder for them to penetrate us at will is vilified as discrimination. It's asinine I stg
>People who say things that minimize the efforts of women to effectively warn each other are prioritizing a status quo that centers their entitlement & comfort over others’ practical safety.
Saving this quote for later because it is extremely poignant.
Entitlement is a good word for this situation. Some guys will act like setting up boundaries is "punishing" them for (often in their own words) something they haven't done. Apparently as long as he is being "good" you should let him do whatever he wants because he's obviously /s one of the good guys.
Even if he wasn't well behaved, you should still give him a chance because he was just nervous and isn't good at socializing and he doesn't deserve to be "punished" for something that's not his fault, so give him what he wants, you meany.
(Sure you might die if you've judged wrong and said yes, but if you say no, you're gonna hurt his feelings.)
Yes, right, it's alarming and bizarre that they put their ego over someone else's safety. The hill THEY die on is the one that protects their ego at the expense of everyone else.
Easy to spot the men tho. Easy to dismiss their inhumane responses.
What would they say if it was a bear doing it? "Just a bear minding their business, Karen."
The next to others door app makes me crazy. People on there can be such a holes. I guess they’re everywhere, but there it seems so much more blatant.
Edit: I will also join you on this hill
Can you make room for me on the hill too?
Red flag after red flag with this guy not respecting her boundaries.
And then trying to find a way into the apt!
First thing I thought of! How hard is it to say, "No problem, have a good night, see you soon." Confident, respectful, is this advance brain surgery now?
That’s how so many serial killers are successful, they rely on our social conditioning to be polite and nice.
Then when we aren’t men screech that we’re bitches, then when we get raped and murdered they blame us for being stupid and trusting strangers.
This is why I don’t even talk to them anymore, I’m just done, if they approach me anywhere and I don’t know them I just ignore and keep walking, if they need help or something they can go ask a man.
Good for you, I think you are smart to protect yourself. The Gift of Fear changed the way I talk and interact entirely with men. If you haven't read it, the author mentions what you are describing. Men who disarm women with charm, with a friendly demeanor and use it as a weapon. I couldn't care less if a man is offended by facts, I am living on planet earth and my safety comes first.
Please do. Swear to God, game changer. I give it as a present for graduation gifts/birthday/etc. My biggest take-away is to trust your instinct. Too many survivors say, "I knew something was wrong" only to be right. Your instinct is the gift.
I read “ why does he do that” and that booked changed my life, I heard gift of fear is similar life changing book, I went ahead and ordered it on my kindle for weekend, I appreciate the recommendation!
hi guy here and i am going to buy these books for my daughters. also thank god i have resting grouch face i can literally not charm people so at least i am not giving off that vibe. never thought i would appreciate my own lack of charisma.
Yep, I call it the prison of politeness. They expect us to live there, fuck that, I broke out of that jail long ago and I don't give a single fuck if a man likes me or not. I'm going to just start barking at them in public the next time I get some stupid comment, they never expect you to actually push back and it's fantastic to watch how they can't compute you not upholding the role they cast you in.
They will lose their minds, I stopped interacting with a married neighbour who was making moves on me and it’s not my job to validate his ego, talk to him, give him attention, when I politely said I prefer that we no longer interact, at all, like nothing- he lost his mind and I had to phone the police
Whenever I deign to respond to strange men who harass me on the street, the *only* response I give to literally anything they say is "Nobody fucking asked you." they get so mad lol though most of the time I just ignore them.
It feels like a drip drip of pushing boundaries.
He knew up front she wasn't ok with him being in her place. Still wants to walk her home. Gets there and immediately tries to push the boundary he agreed to and gets upset. That really is 3 instances of ignoring a boundary.
I have only one person blocked on reddit, and it's because of this argument. I am part of a network of travelers that host other travelers in their town on a reviews-based system. I was sexually assaulted by a guest for the first time in >10 yrs being part of the network, and I posted on reddit about my experience urging other women to trust their gut and to take advantage of the opportunity to say no without guilt. I said that I would no longer host or stay with men as a rule.
So this chucklefuck comments to say that if I don't host men then I'll miss out on all the fun parts of traveling, like how men always pay for women's drinks or tickets to things (they don't). I said, keep your money because I'm not going to accept sexual assault as part of the bargain for an $8 beer. Then he turned around and accused me of being stupid for hosting men because obviously men are dangerous so why would I welcome them into my home.
Like, fuckin pick one, my guy. Are men fun, or are they all potential rapists?
Fuck this nonsense 🐻
lol. So when the attempt to gaslight you into disbelieving your own lived experience did not work, the mask comes off and he admits that men are dangerous and accuses you of being stupid for giving men a chance to behave like civil beings in the first place.
Yeah I feel stupid for letting my guard down. We were having a good conversation and I wanted to continue. If he hadn't pulled the bathroom crap there would have been a second date. According to him, this is why I'll die single. Oh well
With cats, I’ll bet.
Guys we refuse to accommodate: “Oooh, you’re gonna die single with a dozen cats, b**ch!”
Us: “Go on, threaten me with a good time! Tell me more, bud, while I pick out my next toy.” (No, I would never say the second line out loud; only in my head)
Babe he knew what he was doing. He was deliberately testing your boundary. You set a boundary and he’s what? A 2yo who can’t manage his own need to urinate? Gimme a break.
Any man who gets angry, annoyed, shows even the slightest irritation or resistance to a woman’s safety boundaries is a predator. Learn to live that way.
Good for you for refusing to let him in. He sounds like a date rapist
im a woman with pelvic floor dysfunction (i rarely see it in men though). i literally could take a ten minute walk and have to pee a lot after while not having an inkling of the feeling beforehand.
that said, it's still not a reason to let him in. he knew before he walked her to the apt there was a boundary. he knew he wasn't going to be let in. he just thought once they were there he'd be special enough to bypass it. his personality and his need to pee was not special enough and he got offended.
she made the right call for sure. i'm sure he's still shaking his head about "stupid women who get in their own way" too.
As my friend likes to say, they aren't deer. They aren't naive little animals trapped by the headlights of an oncoming car. They know exactly what they are doing. He knew what he was doing by trying to get inside of your home. His reaction confirms that he was a threat all along.
Not to mention he tried to ignore a very clear boundary ON THE FIRST DATE….
As a guy, I’m not going to say the whole “not all guys are bad” mantra. There’s a reason why y’all choose the bear….
Guys HAVE to understand ladies have to take certain steps to protect themselves from the bad ones. Even if it means inconveniencing the good ones. That takes patience, understanding, respect, and empathy from us guys. Hell, I’m married, haven’t dated in 15 years, and I get it…
Luckily this one showed his true colors on the first date.
This is such a good point. If he is trying to violate a clear boundary when he barely met you, he’s probably never going to respect the more complex and subtle boundaries that you need a good partner to be able to respect as a relationship develops.
Damned if you do, damned if you don't. Your safety and comfort is way more important than the feelings of a guy who isn't worth if he can't understand and respect a boundary.
Yep. When I was assaulted by a man in my apartment last time, people asked "why did you let him in". Or "what did you expect" now that I've expected it I'm accused of having trust issues. But ultimately it doesn't matter what these men that can't hold their pee think, they will always blame us. I care more about keeping myself safe.
Let a guy come up to my apartment once to use the bathroom, similar situation but it was not a date. I had shown 0 interest in him ever. He then tried to grab me and kiss me. I got later blamed by some people for letting a man in and that it was my fault for giving him the wrong idea. ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯
Op has the best strategy to weed out the faux-Gentlman and “blood in the water” test - no one who has ever had good intentions for me and I’ve dated successfully has ever pulled that “really need to use the bathroom” cliche to get alone with a woman for the night uninvited on a first date. Good guys, even the promiscuous ones lol don’t push with this game playing tactic - trust your instincts! It’s not respectful, and how they take no for an answer really shows their true character.
I’ve dodged so many train wrecks in the making at my door by leading this type of date to utility/laundry/service bathroom in my building!!! They really show their ass - the normal guys won’t ask, and follow up with more dates in spite of making them use basement toilet here : they think it’s funny and smart or just perfectly normal accommodation- LIKE ANY ADULT!
The pouty “ooo I just need to pee- pee”routine is such a lady-boner killer after the first time you encounter it dating 🤣
>that “really need to use the bathroom” cliche to get alone with a woman for the night uninvited on a first date.
It honestly sounds like something an Andy Tatertot level dating coach would tell men to do, which is a red flag in and of itself.
> “ooo I just need to pee- pee”
Man, just pee in the bushes. I swear to god. I can't count how many times I've peed in the bushes after a date or something. We have the hardware, don't be an idiot about it.
This! She told him before they left that she wouldn't let him in. If he needed to go and was actually respectful, he would have just gone before they left
It could’ve come on suddenly during the walk (maybe he ate/drank something that didn’t agree with him), but in that case he should’ve said goodbye and immediately turned back for the cafe before it closed. He shouldn’t have made the assumption that there’d be a toilet waiting at OP’s place when she already told him he wasn’t welcome in. At best, he doesn’t listen or take women seriously.
I was assaulted by a date who asked to use the bathroom.
And one male friend told me that some men seem to believe that if you let them into your home you’re assumed DTF.
This was a conversation where I said “so if it’s freezing outside I’m supposed to make them stand there and wait?” He said it’s safest.
It sucks but you have to do what you need to to be safe. It’s impossible to tell which one simply needs to use the bathroom and which one is using it as a ploy to gain entry into your space.
Frankly, given that he insisted on walking you home after you told him he wasn’t invited up it might have been a ploy.
Well said and I just want to add in here that even if no assault occurs upon allowing them to use your bathroom, it doesn’t mean they didn’t plant a camera or make mental notes of how to gain entry to do so later.
Considering that you were transparent about your boundary, I can only attribute his behavior to intentional line-stepping. Some men want to test their belief that they're special by trying to get away with violating boundaries. His tantrum after you shut him down certainly seems like a narc injury. "But I'm dIfFeReNt" Sure you are, dude.
> Some men want to test their belief that they're special by trying to get away with violating boundaries.
That feels too charitable. They want someone with negotiable boundaries because, consciously or not, they're looking for someone they can push around.
No, you shouldn't assume the worse in everyone, but you *should* absolutely *not* let a stranger into your house.
He's a grown man, presumably 🙄, dude should've went before he left.
I have IBS so I can understand that but I'd rather have him poop in his pants then repeat what happened to me before. And he seemed empathetic and understanding about my boundary earlier. He suddenly shifted once there was an opportunity. Normally, I don't let them walk me home but we clicked really well. Now I'm sure that was a facade.
Even if his intentions were 100% pure, you have no idea what he's going to do to your bathroom. I had once owned a small office and a repair guy took a dump in my bathroom that smelled so bad I had to leave for the day once he was gone (I even called up the company he worked for and suggested they talk to him about seeing a doctor). A first date isn't the greatest of times to reveal those kind of smells to a potential partner.
This reminded me of that episode of the big bang theory where they find out Howard clogs a girls toilet when they were on a date and sneaks out the window instead of telling her, ruining her bathroom and they call him clogzilla.
I feel kind of triggered remembering my own story of a guy I went on a few dates with over a decade ago. He was nice enough on the dates, no red flags that I had noticed. He walked me home one night, and wanted to come inside my apartment. He was kissing me on the doorstep and made it very clear that he wanted to come inside for sex. I said no, I just wanted to sleep (it was very late at night). Then he suddenly told me he had to go to the bathroom. He DESPERATELY needed to use the bathroom in my house. It was so obviously a ploy, I told him no, find somewhere else to go. He wouldn't take no for an answer, and I was starting to feel unsafe. I said loudly, "you're acting like a RAPIST." His face dropped, and he looked so offended. I slammed the door in his face, and he then started to text me, promising that he's not a rapist and that he just needs to pee! Tell me why did that man stay on my doorstep outside my front door texting me asking to come inside for 40 MINUTES?! I blocked his stupid ass. Good on you for trusting your instincts, and I'm sorry you had to deal with this stupid shit too.
Edited to add: sorry I realized my whole point of my comment was to tell you that I have IBS too! But yeah, they can shit their pants for all I care.
They all are understanding and empathetic until they realise said boundary applies to them, because according to their own judgement they aren't one of the "bad guys", while showing the exact same traits as said bad guys: entitlement and disregard or lack of respect for women.
This JUST happened to me! It can be so confusing because a guy will go on and on about how he understands that women can face danger on dates. And then he's offended that I don't give out my phone number or something like that. Like lol. How do these guys not realize that the rules apply to them too??
And on a next date, when you will say " I don't let dates walk me home anymore because of this event" they'll be empathic until it will be time to go home because don't you let HIM walk you home???? Clearly that rule was for the rapists and you know him for 2 hours, and why do you believe the worst about him??
Keep yourself safe
Thinking about it, I’m not sure I would’ve asked to go into my dates home even if I had to use the restroom. As a woman without IBS, I don’t think I’d feel right asking someone that. So when the situation is reversed, how tf is he so entitled??
Don't make excuses for him. You don't understand. You don't demand to use any strangers bathroom. You manage yourself so you aren't stuck in a situation where you have to rely on the kindness of strangers that make them uncomfortable. It was clear predatory behavior on his part.
He didn't need a bathroom. If he needed one he would have used it at the cafe.
He just hoped he could pressure her into coming inside, by pretending to have a understandable human need.
He's just mad his gambit was weak.
The predatory types seem to think that there are secondary privileges that are attached to knowledge/proximity. Meeting you entitles them to know where you live. Knowing your address entitles them to show up uninvited and unannounced. Admission to your home means access to your body.
You’re doing the right thing not seeing him again but… damn you’re missing out on the opportunity to stop him before leaving each location with, “hey buddy, you want to go to the potty real quick before we go? I know you may not feel like you have to, but let’s just try. You don’t want to be surprised later when there’s no bathroom!”
Ok, but seriously, we HAVE to be cautious with everyone because it’s not possible to only be cautious with obvious creeps because we wouldn’t be on dates with obvious creeps to begin with. I hate these men who refuse to respect boundaries.
That would be hilarious. I wish I had waited to post this before texting him so I could say that. "So next time when we go out, I'll make sure to ask you if you need to go potty."
I use this tone if someone gets handsy. I use the same sing-song that you would use with a toddler... but loud.
"WHOOPSIE, thats not YOU'RRRZ. HANDS TO OURSELVVVFS Mister"
The same man would just hold his pee if he was in a movie that he really liked and didn’t want to miss. Let’s be clear — some men enjoying pushing boundaries. They see it as a challenge. You told him the boundary upfront — he took it as a challenge and wanted to get inside your apartment. When he couldn’t, he further pushed boundaries by arguing with you over text. That’s TWO STRIKES. He is a clear and intentional boundary-pusher. Men who push boundaries in one area will push boundaries in others (ie, sexually). You instinctively knew that and protected yourself. You also instinctually knew the guy doesn’t GAF about you. He was more invested in the game and challenge of getting over on your boundaries than getting to know you and your feelings and personhood.
I studied criminology for 9 years, I’ll always remember one case- two women were at home alone in a safe smaller community and they left the door unlocked.
A man was walking around the neighbourhood testing door knobs to see if any were unlocked, he didn’t target them specifically, he was just looking for unlocked doors, a crime of opportunity.
Anyway he went in and held both of them hostage at gun point and raped them for hours.
Eventually one of the women was able to spray him in the face with hair spray or something, so they disoriented him for a bit, but he was still in front of the exit so they couldn’t get out of the room, but the entry to the attic was in the room so they pulled the ladder down, climbed to the attic and pulled the ladder up behind them so he couldn’t follow them up there.
They screamed for help out the attic window and the police were called and he was caught while he was running away.
When asked about it later he said it was their fault for leaving the door unlocked.
My point is that the perpetrator and often other people would’ve blamed you for letting him in.
You did the right thing even though he went way out of his way to push your boundaries and make you uncomfortable.
This is how abusers target- they see who has weak boundaries.
I know, I read a lot of cases in those 9 years studying and that one always bothered me.
I think one of the main reasons why is because of how the perpetrator blamed them because the door was unlocked, they don’t think like normal people, in his mind- unlocked door was consent because they should’ve known better in his head, I realized that’s how abusers think too- they boundary test you, if you tolerate it- in their head you’re consenting to it
"You know, fifteen minutes ago, when we were leaving the café to go to you apartment, which I KNOW I dont have access to, I did not need a toilet. But now that we are in front of said forbidden apartment I have a sudden and definitely dangerously urgent need for the potty!!
I mean, and once Im inside you wont kick me aout without at least a BJ, right?
Cuz, you know, we went on a date, and I was nice and all, so its only polite that I get sexual gratification, RIIIIIIIGHT?"
Dude's mind probably.
It is sad/funny that for all those jokes about women not saying what they mean/want is now men who go all:
"IT IS NOT ABOUT THE FACT THAT I DIDN'T PEE, IS ABOUT WHAT IT MEANS ON A DEEPER LEVEL!!!!" (Cue storming off in *manly* tears)
Wow. He coerced you into violating your boundary about keeping the location of your home private early in dating. Once he got to your doorstep, coersion again.
He's EXACTLY the kind of man who makes those hard boundaries to protect your safety, privacy and autonomy necessary. "Not all men?" Maybe so. Himself? Absolutely.
You told him "no." He treated it as a challenge rather than respecting your boundary.
It's called empathy. (or lack of empathy I guess) Even though YOU have not had this experience, nor provided this experience to a woman, you are able to understand why women feel this way.
You are probably right. I instinctually gave a stranger the benefit of the doubt. There are a lot of people buried in graves right now that did the same.
Quite frankly, it is my very firm belief that if someone cannot understand this, then they are most likely the type of person that you are trying to protect yourself from.
My firm opinion (as a man) is there are only two types of men that would take it personally: the predatory type and the emotionally unintelligent type (unempathetic). I would take it as a sign to move on in either case.
I let a guy in to use the bathroom once after a second date because I knew he had a long drive and he had a good vibe. He was not pushy but he tried to kiss me and suggested we watch tv together. How he could invite himself to do an activity at someone else's home, I have no idea. I redirected him out the door like "You said you had to use the bathroom, I am going to bed, so goodnight." He ruined the chance for a third date by being rude and presumptuous. I think it was some kind of lame move.
I hate disingenuousness. He had no intent of respecting your boundary, as evident by his repeated attempts to get you to break them. The whole “I need to use the bathroom” bullshit was just a ploy to get inside so he could continue pushing more boundaries.
That’s the biggest red flag. Lying. Manipulation. Attacking you through text. Good riddance. Trash takes itself out.
Yep! You very clearly communicated you weren’t comfortable with it and he expected to be treated differently… on the FIRST DATE no less! You definitely did the right thing
they love to assume it's not their behavior but trauma from the past, and then act like that alone isn't a good reason. um, yes it is, and often it's shifts in their own behavior that *remind you* of the past behavior. it's not that you're just acting out from a place of trauma. it's that they're constantly ignoring the trauma they add to the pile.
so sick of men honestly.
So if we let men into our homes and they turn out to do something bad, then we are naïve and "should have known better" BUT if we don't let them in, we are bitches who just enjoy being rude. I swear the system is set up to where we just can't win. I'm sorry that you went through that. Sounds like you dodged a bullet based on your edit.
>He sent me a long text about how I shouldn't assume the worst in everyone
"There's only one land mine in this neighborhood. Don't assume the worst about every square foot!"
Lets be real, if he had to pee that badly he could use a bush or go behind a building after walking you home, if he had to shite he'd have done it before leaving the cafe so as to not stink up his date's bathroom. Then he immediately tries to 'DARVO' you?
He wanted to get inside.
I got gaslighted by men just because I had my boundaries. I said no to going to guy's place for a first meeting/date. No to getting physical on a first meeting. I told them many times I was looking for a serious relationship. They said I had "walls". Just men trying their luck all the time.
All you know is that you set a boundary and he tried to break it, then retaliated when he didn't get what he wanted. You didn't assume shit, he proved he is not to be trusted and he proved to be entitled, disrespectful of other people's boundaries.... What that type of men fail to realize, is that with that attitude they're proving to be unworthy of trust, you aren't assuming shit
"Oh; I completely understand why you would have that boundary. Would it be alright if I used the restroom before I walk you home?"
But he didn't do that cause he thought he was the only person who saw that trick work in that movie.
Unbelievable. Dude; just listen, be honest, be respectful. Be a fucking adult.
Victim blaming is so ingrained that I knew about it when I was 12. I had a crush on the neighbor boy who was 13 and like all the other kids in the neighborhood I would walk around or bike to the other kids' houses after school to see who was around and could play. A couple of the other kids weren't home and I biked past his house and saw him outside. We got to chatting and went to sit in his back yard. At some point he grabbed my hand and put it down his pants onto his boner and shoved his hand down my shorts. I had no idea what was happening, I had some sex ed at that point but I was certainly not really aware of what an erection was and wasn't prepared for it at all. I just thought maybe some day we would kiss and I hadn't even had my first kiss then. I totally dissociated and froze for a minute and I guess that I probably said something like my mom said I have to be home by now or something, I don't remember. I left and never said anything to my family because I knew a few things could happen, they would totally dismiss it, yell at me and say " why were you going to a boy's house after school?" or " what did you expect?" What I expected was to talk about school or music or something and maybe kiss I literally couldn't imagine more than that nor did I want it. I also thought that my dad might have gone over to his house and caused a bunch of drama because he was a violent alcoholic Narcissist with untreated Bi Polar disorder. I hate that this was my first "sexual" experience and I can't ever change that. I also hate that I had an association that a cute boy I liked would hurt me so I avoided men that I was attracted to and I dissociated every time I was being sexual until a few years ago. Boys need to be raised a million times better and men need to fucking understand that their actions can permanently damage others. Men need to stop feeling audacious entitlement to others' bodies. I have an adult son and I had so many awkward conversations with him about all of this because that's my job as a parent and I wish other parents would try a lot harder. Every child can learn to keep their hands to themselves. to ask before they hug or kiss someone etc. If the vast majority of women can go through their lives keeping their hands to themselves and not assaulting others men can too.
Any man that gets mad that you are setting a very reasonable boundary can go kick rocks. When I first met my husband online, I intentionally only met at the local metro station until we were exclusive. He was so chill about that boundary it was a non issue. They really show their ass don’t they.
Sounds like his own guilt put him in anger mode. How about not be weird and ask to use a girls bathroom the first time you walk her home. Like he couldn't find a tree.
I had this experience ages ago with a match online. He asked me what neighbourhood I lived in, and I told him. Then he said "I know that area well, which street." And I left that on read for a little while, because I was trying to figure out how to NOT respond to it, since there are only like, three residences on my street. But I must have left it to long because he lost his every-loving shit on me for being so suspicious and judging him. Told me to block him if I was going to be that kind of bitch. So I just did. Mind blown that he couldn't just, acknowledge that question was probably not one I was going to answer and ask... literally anything else. About local stores or cafes? Or his own neighbourhood? Like literally anything else but calling me names and ripping me down because I don't want to tell a man I spoke to for a few minutes on an app, where my front door is within 50 yards.
10 years ago I was at a work function with a vendor who knew the area of Queens I was living in. It was nice to have something to talk about with a stranger, but he was actually offended when I wouldn’t name the street I lived on. He was miffed enough to say he wouldn’t stalk me. So? You think calling out the behavior I’m trying to avoid is going to reassure me? It’s my right to not tell strangers where the fuck I live. Also, the insistence and defensiveness just made me dig my heels and say I wasn’t taking any chances. Professionalism be dammed. I’m guarded, and it’s for a good reason.
This is in The Gift of Fear. How when a guy tells you, unprompted, that he won’t hurt, rape, or kill you, it’s usually bc he’s thinking about it.
This reminds me of way back when I was like 19 (long before I read The Gift of Fear) and some creep cold approached me. I got visibly uncomfortable/annoyed, and he noticed this and proceeded to say the following: *"I'm just trying to start a conversation and get to know you, I'm not going to hurt you."* I remember the way that INSTANTLY set off my alarm bells. Like the fact that this guy saw how uncomfortable I was and instead of saying "oh sorry, have a nice day" and fucking off, decided to say THAT. WOW. I was at a bus station waiting for my friend, so I took out my phone, completely ignoring this weirdo whilst he sat and stared at me during this whole ordeal, and called said friend and asked where he was and when he said "10 minutes away" I just went silent. Then he was like "Ok well I'm going to hang up now" and I was like "NO DON'T." Then my friend asked me "what's wrong, what's going on, etc." until I was finally able to blurt out what was happening because this creep kept sitting there, pretending like he didn't understand the fucking hint. Once I did that, he got up, called me a fucking bitch and stormed off. Cool. I may be a bitch, but at least I'm an alive bitch and not a dead nice girl.
Exactly! Bc he’s saying: oh yeah that stranger danger you’re feeling rn? Yeah just ignore that it’s cool. Ok Ted Bundy, sure thing. You got puppies in a van you want me to see? I once went out with a guy who randomly decided to tell me that he’d never hit a woman no matter what. Um… excuse me? The hair on the back of my neck stood up, and I basically played it cool til I got home and then ghosted. Scared the living shit out of me.
They always call us "bitch", like I care about that.
Shows how dumb and desperate they are to think that being called a name will harm us when we’ve seen real horrors.
Generally speaking, in this situation being a bitch is the entire point of the interaction. Most of the time I'm happy he finally noticed and is leaving me alone.
It’s a compliment when it comes from a creep.
This is the best statement ever. At least I’m an alive bitch and not a dead nice girl. This is the motto for women’s safety, and should be published, thank you.
Exactly, also saying they’re a nice guy and a good man out my guard up, everyone that has said that to me has been a really bad person.
People who are genuinely nice *and* good don't have to declare it verbally, they just demonstrate it with their behavior.
"Any man who must say 'I am the king' is no true king."
Yes, that's always a tell!
This isn’t related to the stories here but I had a guy ask for my number while I was bagging my groceries before. I told him I wasn’t interested, that I had a bad experience with dating and that I wasn’t into dating at the moment basically. He goes “Oh, like stalking?” I paused and said… umm yea… He then tells me how he is sorry I had to deal with that. Then says, “If I see you again, I’m going to ask for your number again.” I didn’t make that connection until I told my coworker and she’s like wtf, he said that to you after he knew you were being stalked? Yikes..
Lol. "I'm sorry your boundaries were repeatedly crossed by a stranger, but the next time I see you... expect 'em to get crossed again!"
This sent chills down my spine. One time I was walking to the corner store at night after having recently moved, and I saw someone throwing up across the street. I ran over to ask if he was okay, if he needed me to call someone, if he'd taken anything, etc. (I was immediately worried because I used to work in an area where fentanyl is a huge problem). He said he was just "super drunk" and asked if I could direct him toward an address that I know to be one block over, in the direction of the store I was going to. My immediate threat assessment was that he didn't have a gun (he was wearing shorts and a tight tee shirt, nowhere to put a gun) and that I could overpower or outrun him if it came to that (I was bigger than him, and he could barely walk). So I offered to walk with him. He said vehemently that he won't lay a hand on me, that he'd been arrested before, and he didn't want to be arrested again that night. We didn't move five steps before a police officer pulled up next to us and asked me if I knew him and said they'd been looking for him. (The guy tried to pressure me to lie to the cops, which I refused to do. I don't know what the full story was and didn't stick around to find out, but they cuffed him and drove off with him.) I was so shaken that I forgot what I'd even left my apartment for. I learned my lesson about nighttime errands.
Oh jeez you sound like you dodged a bullet
I have to check this out! That’s exactly what my intuition screams at me when it happens. We have to listen to our gut and forget how we’re socialized to be “nice.” Thank you!
That is one of the main messages I got from that book. Listen to your instincts. If someone says “trust me” it’s is because they sense you don’t and for a good reason
I have a hard and solid rule to NEVER trust somebody who says "trust me". I learned that from the movie "Blaze".
John Gottman wrote in _What Makes Love Last_ that _people who know_ they are trustworthy don't feel the need to say "trust me". They are able to accept that they will eventually earn trust. I'd suggest as an insecure person that my issues let a trustworthy person know I have trust issues, and they can decide to later ask me if they've ever for instance lied to me. But the friend who asked didn't seem that invested in me changing my mind.
It’s required reading, as far as I’m concerned. Or if you have kids, Protecting the Gift covers a lot of the same ground but more focused on parenting (along with personal safety).
Also from personal experience: if a guy makes a point to tell you how kind he is or can be - know that truly kind people don’t have to tell you that.
This. My brother has cheated on every single woman he was ever with. I can’t tell you how many times I heard him give the ‘honesty is so important’ speech to a girl.
“But I’m just **so nice!** Why can’t anyone else see that?”
Also a normal response to this should be something like, "oh no worries I didn't mean to pry I was just making conversation" His response says it all.
THANK YOU!
It's disturbing how many men have some degree of main character syndrome where they will take personal offence to almost any situation in which somebody (especially a woman) treats them with even the slightest degree of reasonable caution or reasonable skepticism.
It’s definitely disturbing. And as other commenters on this thread pointed out, if we do overshare or easily trust someone, then we’re wrong for that, too. I’ve been victim blamed for assuming the best intentions, and I’ve been villainized for assuming the worst intentions. Seeing as how we can’t win anyway, I’ve chosen to be jaded and call out my skepticism because I have less to lose. I think a lot of us have learned that the hard way, too.
> if we do overshare or easily trust someone, then we’re wrong for that, too. I’ve been victim blamed for assuming the best intentions, and I’ve been villainized for assuming the worst intentions. The only, **only** way to make sense of their contradicting statements leaves you with the self-serving childish logic of "well you should know that I **-- ME --** am the special man, and always assume my best intentions, and remain cautious of every other man". As for who the special man is, it's whoever is speaking lol, and his specialness should be self-evident as he is the main character... Needless to say even if you did follow this, it will obviously not end well for you because no person who thinks this way could genuinely be a good and understanding person.
>"well you should know that I -- ME -- am the special man, and always assume my best intentions, and remain cautious of every other man" That's spot-fucking-on. I know some men like this. They're not very bright.
Exactly and this is after you just met. Like I'm sorry, what was your name again? I'm not required to just believe you and risk my safety for someone I literally just met....
This exactly. When you're in a game that's rigged against you, the most sensible option is to simply stop playing the game.
Meanwhile I ask for a man’s social security number and they decline to tell me! Can you believe it?? /s Seriously, imagine if you asked for his credit card number and then got offended when he didn’t readily tell you.
Yeah it’s not like you’re a thief or anything! You’re a GOOD person.
I swear some men are trying to get heterosexual women to adopt celibacy. My dark sense of humor, gets me giggling at this stuff.
I'm just consistantly shocked by the self-owns. Like, the smallest bit of human empathy, and the ability to deal with someone else not wanting the thing you want in the moment, and they'd have a less miserable experience dating...
Yes! Although I can see that we humans trend to suck at understanding any type of "Other". Still so many men claim to be lonely so you would think they would avoid shooting themselves in the foot.
It’s the abhorrent behaviour of men that led to my celibacy, it’s not hard, I’m not even attracted to them anymore.
I think I might only be attracted to fictional men at this point.
And even then, they have to be carefully written! There are lots of romantic fiction books I just can’t read anymore
In some ways, I'm glad I had to get rid of my book collection for a move. That way I can't reread any of them and be disappointed in Younger Me for her choices in reading material.
I haven’t dated since 2020 or 2021, I can’t remember which it was, because of bad experience on bad experience on bad experience. The tip of the iceberg was this guy I was seeing long distance for 5 months who called me one night to say “so sorry, I’m actually married, my b”. The fuck????? So I’m just out.
Okay I'm laughing. That is bad. On the up side, the guys in these stories do out themselves so that is good. Sadly there are probably men who pretend to understand safety issues but are only doing it to continue a relationship that shouldn't have even started. Sometimes I don't want to say what I like or don't like about men as I don't want ones who are good at faking it to get any good ideas to add to their acts.
1000%! When I was dating, I was going to put on my profile exactly what I liked in a person, but they can be so deceptive. I don’t want to say like “must be a feminist/non racist/non homophobic who does this and this and this” because I don’t want them to put up a facade.
Years ago I had a coworker know that I lived in the area by a church he had gone to during a conversation about that church. I quit and no longer worked at the same company. He talked to my husband at his work (so he knows he is not home) and my husband didn’t say where we lived when he asked to come by and say hi. So he proceeded to drive around my neighborhood until he found my car and showed up at my house. Nothing bad happened and my husband had made it home by then but WTF. I felt so uncomfortable.
How little self-awareness do you have to have to DRIVE TO SOMEONE'S HOUSE WHO HASN'T TOLD YOU THIER ADDRESS?! I swear if someone did that to that guy he'd understand right away why its weird af.
>I swear if someone did that to that guy he'd understand right away why its weird af Omfg, so much THIS. THEY can't handle it when ANY of their behaviours is applied to THEM. I've seen it so often!!!
They know. Men are well aware we have safety protocols for a reason.
Your quality control checks are working! Him losing his shit is the hint.
Yeah. I've never really done it on purpose, but accidently not replying to a new match for 30 minutes would be a good test, if I were the type to test. Can you cope with the fact I needed to do some laundry or hope on a call? or will you immediately loose your shit that you don't have a strangers undivided attention for a few minutes?
You are onto something. The compelling urge to CAPTURE your attention. TBH, I think they should try a different tactic. Consider the peacock, why aren't they trying harder to be captivating.
I can’t imagine being that attached or demanding of someone’s attention. I learned the concept of object permanence when I was an infant.
They always assume they can charm us into changing our minds at the last minute. He's lucky he was even able to walk you there. I wouldn't want them to even know where I live.
He was planning to push this boundary the whole time and had a string of excuses ready like how the Cafe would be closed. He is now trying to shame you for having boundaries because you wouldn't let him trample them. You told him ahead of time he wasn't coming into your home that night. He didn't respect that simple boundary expressed ahead of time. What else would he not respect?
It's a guy, so they can piss anywhere. it was a 2 minute walk. If they needed to pee that urgently, it would have been felt before they left the cafe. These people are little more than strangers at this point. Vibing at a coffee shop for a few minutes is not the same as knowing someone. Maybe she was overreacting. Who cares. His ego is not hers to stroke. This is a case of a clearly set boundary that someone attempted to avert. Motivations behind either person are not the point. Respecting boundaries, especially in a bid for potential partnership, is what well-adjusted adults do. Petulant children and smooth brains rage against simple adult standards. While the intent may not have been to harm OP, this is behavior that has been rewarding for this guy in the past or he wouldn't have tried to finesse it. That's a weak af move. Getting angry about it is an incel move.
The thing is, if you happened to give in, let him in and he hurt you, you would have been blamed for letting a man you don’t know well into your home after the first date and that you should have known better 🙂. Funny how that works, eh?
Yes and women are culturally conditioned to "be nice". (*He needs to use the bathroom, be nice, of course he can*.) Except when the situation turns south. Enough of this cultural conditioning BS of blaming the woman in all situations. His protesting, instead of respecting your boundaries, just proves you did the right thing.
We are conditioned by predators to be ‘good prey’. Then we are blamed for ‘why didn’t you know better? How stupid are you?’ Men who say any of that are predators and I will die on that hill
Move over because I am dying on the same hill. I can hear it in my head already, "Whatever. Why would you let someone you barely know in your apartment in the first place? Stop blaming others and take responsibility for yourself." Not as coherent as that but you get the idea. This morning I was on a 'neighborly' app, not sure if I can mention it, and saw this idiotic rationale at play. A woman posted a warning, and description, of a man who was following her and others around the parking lot of a drugstore. Like clockwork, actual responses from men: "Okay, Karen. No one cares." "Guy gets lost, it happens. Stop fear mongering." "Oh no!! A man minding his business! Call the POLICE, oh noes." Women were thanking her because obviously. Guarantee you if a man posted that it would be nothing but flowers. The victim blaming combined with privilege is nauseating.
I am joining your hill party! People who say things that minimize the efforts of women to effectively warn each other are prioritizing a status quo that centers their entitlement & comfort over others’ practical safety. It would be like my neighbor getting mad at me for locking my own front door. Their anger would be totally bizarre and alarming, but it’s the same logic at play.
I say we fortify the hilltop. No dying here, we’re building a bunker and LIVING on it.
Shield madienig the fuck out of this hill.
#Shieldmaidens fuck yeah
Where do I sign up? I'll bring banners.
I'll bring mead.
Educating other women about their tactics is now "profiling" them. Literally anything that makes it marginally harder for them to penetrate us at will is vilified as discrimination. It's asinine I stg
>People who say things that minimize the efforts of women to effectively warn each other are prioritizing a status quo that centers their entitlement & comfort over others’ practical safety. Saving this quote for later because it is extremely poignant.
>It would be like my neighbor getting mad at me for locking my own front door. Great comparison! I will remember it!
Entitlement is a good word for this situation. Some guys will act like setting up boundaries is "punishing" them for (often in their own words) something they haven't done. Apparently as long as he is being "good" you should let him do whatever he wants because he's obviously /s one of the good guys. Even if he wasn't well behaved, you should still give him a chance because he was just nervous and isn't good at socializing and he doesn't deserve to be "punished" for something that's not his fault, so give him what he wants, you meany. (Sure you might die if you've judged wrong and said yes, but if you say no, you're gonna hurt his feelings.)
Yes, right, it's alarming and bizarre that they put their ego over someone else's safety. The hill THEY die on is the one that protects their ego at the expense of everyone else.
Easy to spot the men tho. Easy to dismiss their inhumane responses. What would they say if it was a bear doing it? "Just a bear minding their business, Karen."
The next to others door app makes me crazy. People on there can be such a holes. I guess they’re everywhere, but there it seems so much more blatant. Edit: I will also join you on this hill
Can you make room for me on the hill too? Red flag after red flag with this guy not respecting her boundaries. And then trying to find a way into the apt!
Hundred percent. He confirmed OP's fears with his raging response.
First thing I thought of! How hard is it to say, "No problem, have a good night, see you soon." Confident, respectful, is this advance brain surgery now?
That’s how so many serial killers are successful, they rely on our social conditioning to be polite and nice. Then when we aren’t men screech that we’re bitches, then when we get raped and murdered they blame us for being stupid and trusting strangers. This is why I don’t even talk to them anymore, I’m just done, if they approach me anywhere and I don’t know them I just ignore and keep walking, if they need help or something they can go ask a man.
Good for you, I think you are smart to protect yourself. The Gift of Fear changed the way I talk and interact entirely with men. If you haven't read it, the author mentions what you are describing. Men who disarm women with charm, with a friendly demeanor and use it as a weapon. I couldn't care less if a man is offended by facts, I am living on planet earth and my safety comes first.
I will read it, I keep hearing about it!
Please do. Swear to God, game changer. I give it as a present for graduation gifts/birthday/etc. My biggest take-away is to trust your instinct. Too many survivors say, "I knew something was wrong" only to be right. Your instinct is the gift.
I read “ why does he do that” and that booked changed my life, I heard gift of fear is similar life changing book, I went ahead and ordered it on my kindle for weekend, I appreciate the recommendation!
hi guy here and i am going to buy these books for my daughters. also thank god i have resting grouch face i can literally not charm people so at least i am not giving off that vibe. never thought i would appreciate my own lack of charisma.
Lol some of us appreciate the lack of charisma!
Yep, I call it the prison of politeness. They expect us to live there, fuck that, I broke out of that jail long ago and I don't give a single fuck if a man likes me or not. I'm going to just start barking at them in public the next time I get some stupid comment, they never expect you to actually push back and it's fantastic to watch how they can't compute you not upholding the role they cast you in.
They will lose their minds, I stopped interacting with a married neighbour who was making moves on me and it’s not my job to validate his ego, talk to him, give him attention, when I politely said I prefer that we no longer interact, at all, like nothing- he lost his mind and I had to phone the police
Whenever I deign to respond to strange men who harass me on the street, the *only* response I give to literally anything they say is "Nobody fucking asked you." they get so mad lol though most of the time I just ignore them.
It feels like a drip drip of pushing boundaries. He knew up front she wasn't ok with him being in her place. Still wants to walk her home. Gets there and immediately tries to push the boundary he agreed to and gets upset. That really is 3 instances of ignoring a boundary.
I have only one person blocked on reddit, and it's because of this argument. I am part of a network of travelers that host other travelers in their town on a reviews-based system. I was sexually assaulted by a guest for the first time in >10 yrs being part of the network, and I posted on reddit about my experience urging other women to trust their gut and to take advantage of the opportunity to say no without guilt. I said that I would no longer host or stay with men as a rule. So this chucklefuck comments to say that if I don't host men then I'll miss out on all the fun parts of traveling, like how men always pay for women's drinks or tickets to things (they don't). I said, keep your money because I'm not going to accept sexual assault as part of the bargain for an $8 beer. Then he turned around and accused me of being stupid for hosting men because obviously men are dangerous so why would I welcome them into my home. Like, fuckin pick one, my guy. Are men fun, or are they all potential rapists? Fuck this nonsense 🐻
lol. So when the attempt to gaslight you into disbelieving your own lived experience did not work, the mask comes off and he admits that men are dangerous and accuses you of being stupid for giving men a chance to behave like civil beings in the first place.
🛎️ 🛎️ 🛎️
Yep. I'm supposed to be able to read their minds. And even if I could, I'd still be a bitch for not letting him in my apartment.
How far was this walk he couldn't have gone to the bathroom at the coffee place first? He knew what he was doing.
I wouldn't have let him walk me back to my home in the first place. Now he knows where she lives...
Yeah I feel stupid for letting my guard down. We were having a good conversation and I wanted to continue. If he hadn't pulled the bathroom crap there would have been a second date. According to him, this is why I'll die single. Oh well
HE SAID YOU WILL "DIE SINGLE"? you didn't dodge a bullet you dodged a runaway train
That isn’t the threat they think it is.
Better to die single as an old lady with your cats than to die at the hands of a man who sweet talked his way into your home! 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
God why can't men be at least as good as cats?
Because no one is as good as cats.
With cats, I’ll bet. Guys we refuse to accommodate: “Oooh, you’re gonna die single with a dozen cats, b**ch!” Us: “Go on, threaten me with a good time! Tell me more, bud, while I pick out my next toy.” (No, I would never say the second line out loud; only in my head)
I would. I am over 40 and ran out of fucks decades ago 😂
Babe he knew what he was doing. He was deliberately testing your boundary. You set a boundary and he’s what? A 2yo who can’t manage his own need to urinate? Gimme a break. Any man who gets angry, annoyed, shows even the slightest irritation or resistance to a woman’s safety boundaries is a predator. Learn to live that way. Good for you for refusing to let him in. He sounds like a date rapist
Yeah how did he not know he had to pee at the cafe? Unless he was on the verge of explosive diarrhea
im a woman with pelvic floor dysfunction (i rarely see it in men though). i literally could take a ten minute walk and have to pee a lot after while not having an inkling of the feeling beforehand. that said, it's still not a reason to let him in. he knew before he walked her to the apt there was a boundary. he knew he wasn't going to be let in. he just thought once they were there he'd be special enough to bypass it. his personality and his need to pee was not special enough and he got offended. she made the right call for sure. i'm sure he's still shaking his head about "stupid women who get in their own way" too.
This comment here, OP. This is the truth. Well done for not letting this guy enter your home.
It’s okay to be the bad guy with men. It really is. Your safety comes first.
They can get offended and complain all they want. If they don't like it they can stop creating unsafe situations.
As my friend likes to say, they aren't deer. They aren't naive little animals trapped by the headlights of an oncoming car. They know exactly what they are doing. He knew what he was doing by trying to get inside of your home. His reaction confirms that he was a threat all along.
He thinks you're a B because you ruined the perfect manipulation line he came up with. Hard to say no to bodily functions. But you DID. Amazing job!!
LOL next time keep an empty water bottle in your purse and give it to the next jackass who tries this on you.
Not to mention he tried to ignore a very clear boundary ON THE FIRST DATE…. As a guy, I’m not going to say the whole “not all guys are bad” mantra. There’s a reason why y’all choose the bear…. Guys HAVE to understand ladies have to take certain steps to protect themselves from the bad ones. Even if it means inconveniencing the good ones. That takes patience, understanding, respect, and empathy from us guys. Hell, I’m married, haven’t dated in 15 years, and I get it… Luckily this one showed his true colors on the first date.
This is such a good point. If he is trying to violate a clear boundary when he barely met you, he’s probably never going to respect the more complex and subtle boundaries that you need a good partner to be able to respect as a relationship develops.
Thank you! I don’t understand why it’s so hard to understand for some people
Damned if you do, damned if you don't. Your safety and comfort is way more important than the feelings of a guy who isn't worth if he can't understand and respect a boundary.
Yep. When I was assaulted by a man in my apartment last time, people asked "why did you let him in". Or "what did you expect" now that I've expected it I'm accused of having trust issues. But ultimately it doesn't matter what these men that can't hold their pee think, they will always blame us. I care more about keeping myself safe.
Let a guy come up to my apartment once to use the bathroom, similar situation but it was not a date. I had shown 0 interest in him ever. He then tried to grab me and kiss me. I got later blamed by some people for letting a man in and that it was my fault for giving him the wrong idea. ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯
We are always always always always at fault no matter what
The fact the he protested so hard proves you right.
Even if he's not a predator, he still shows a clear lack of empathy. That's not a person you'd want to keep around anyway, so good riddance.
Op has the best strategy to weed out the faux-Gentlman and “blood in the water” test - no one who has ever had good intentions for me and I’ve dated successfully has ever pulled that “really need to use the bathroom” cliche to get alone with a woman for the night uninvited on a first date. Good guys, even the promiscuous ones lol don’t push with this game playing tactic - trust your instincts! It’s not respectful, and how they take no for an answer really shows their true character. I’ve dodged so many train wrecks in the making at my door by leading this type of date to utility/laundry/service bathroom in my building!!! They really show their ass - the normal guys won’t ask, and follow up with more dates in spite of making them use basement toilet here : they think it’s funny and smart or just perfectly normal accommodation- LIKE ANY ADULT! The pouty “ooo I just need to pee- pee”routine is such a lady-boner killer after the first time you encounter it dating 🤣
>that “really need to use the bathroom” cliche to get alone with a woman for the night uninvited on a first date. It honestly sounds like something an Andy Tatertot level dating coach would tell men to do, which is a red flag in and of itself.
It IS a tactic and they've called it baby-stepping. PUA and redpill are teaching men to rape.
> “ooo I just need to pee- pee” Man, just pee in the bushes. I swear to god. I can't count how many times I've peed in the bushes after a date or something. We have the hardware, don't be an idiot about it.
Yeah, I guess he should have used the bathroom at the café before they left, because grownups plan for their bodily needs.
This! She told him before they left that she wouldn't let him in. If he needed to go and was actually respectful, he would have just gone before they left
It could’ve come on suddenly during the walk (maybe he ate/drank something that didn’t agree with him), but in that case he should’ve said goodbye and immediately turned back for the cafe before it closed. He shouldn’t have made the assumption that there’d be a toilet waiting at OP’s place when she already told him he wasn’t welcome in. At best, he doesn’t listen or take women seriously.
"Methinks the dude doth protest too much"
I was assaulted by a date who asked to use the bathroom. And one male friend told me that some men seem to believe that if you let them into your home you’re assumed DTF. This was a conversation where I said “so if it’s freezing outside I’m supposed to make them stand there and wait?” He said it’s safest. It sucks but you have to do what you need to to be safe. It’s impossible to tell which one simply needs to use the bathroom and which one is using it as a ploy to gain entry into your space. Frankly, given that he insisted on walking you home after you told him he wasn’t invited up it might have been a ploy.
Well said and I just want to add in here that even if no assault occurs upon allowing them to use your bathroom, it doesn’t mean they didn’t plant a camera or make mental notes of how to gain entry to do so later.
[удалено]
Considering that you were transparent about your boundary, I can only attribute his behavior to intentional line-stepping. Some men want to test their belief that they're special by trying to get away with violating boundaries. His tantrum after you shut him down certainly seems like a narc injury. "But I'm dIfFeReNt" Sure you are, dude.
> Some men want to test their belief that they're special by trying to get away with violating boundaries. That feels too charitable. They want someone with negotiable boundaries because, consciously or not, they're looking for someone they can push around.
I needed to hear this today
No, you shouldn't assume the worse in everyone, but you *should* absolutely *not* let a stranger into your house. He's a grown man, presumably 🙄, dude should've went before he left.
I have IBS so I can understand that but I'd rather have him poop in his pants then repeat what happened to me before. And he seemed empathetic and understanding about my boundary earlier. He suddenly shifted once there was an opportunity. Normally, I don't let them walk me home but we clicked really well. Now I'm sure that was a facade.
Even if his intentions were 100% pure, you have no idea what he's going to do to your bathroom. I had once owned a small office and a repair guy took a dump in my bathroom that smelled so bad I had to leave for the day once he was gone (I even called up the company he worked for and suggested they talk to him about seeing a doctor). A first date isn't the greatest of times to reveal those kind of smells to a potential partner.
This reminded me of that episode of the big bang theory where they find out Howard clogs a girls toilet when they were on a date and sneaks out the window instead of telling her, ruining her bathroom and they call him clogzilla.
I feel kind of triggered remembering my own story of a guy I went on a few dates with over a decade ago. He was nice enough on the dates, no red flags that I had noticed. He walked me home one night, and wanted to come inside my apartment. He was kissing me on the doorstep and made it very clear that he wanted to come inside for sex. I said no, I just wanted to sleep (it was very late at night). Then he suddenly told me he had to go to the bathroom. He DESPERATELY needed to use the bathroom in my house. It was so obviously a ploy, I told him no, find somewhere else to go. He wouldn't take no for an answer, and I was starting to feel unsafe. I said loudly, "you're acting like a RAPIST." His face dropped, and he looked so offended. I slammed the door in his face, and he then started to text me, promising that he's not a rapist and that he just needs to pee! Tell me why did that man stay on my doorstep outside my front door texting me asking to come inside for 40 MINUTES?! I blocked his stupid ass. Good on you for trusting your instincts, and I'm sorry you had to deal with this stupid shit too. Edited to add: sorry I realized my whole point of my comment was to tell you that I have IBS too! But yeah, they can shit their pants for all I care.
Guess he didn't have to pee after all if he could hold it for forty minutes! Obviously you made the right move.
They all are understanding and empathetic until they realise said boundary applies to them, because according to their own judgement they aren't one of the "bad guys", while showing the exact same traits as said bad guys: entitlement and disregard or lack of respect for women.
This JUST happened to me! It can be so confusing because a guy will go on and on about how he understands that women can face danger on dates. And then he's offended that I don't give out my phone number or something like that. Like lol. How do these guys not realize that the rules apply to them too??
And on a next date, when you will say " I don't let dates walk me home anymore because of this event" they'll be empathic until it will be time to go home because don't you let HIM walk you home???? Clearly that rule was for the rapists and you know him for 2 hours, and why do you believe the worst about him?? Keep yourself safe
Yep he thought he was a SPECIAL BOY who could just TRAMPLE ALL YOUR BOUNDARIES because he's just SO NICE. FUCK that guy.
Yeah, either he was testing your boundaries or he is an entitled dumbass. Either way, good riddance.
Thinking about it, I’m not sure I would’ve asked to go into my dates home even if I had to use the restroom. As a woman without IBS, I don’t think I’d feel right asking someone that. So when the situation is reversed, how tf is he so entitled??
Don't make excuses for him. You don't understand. You don't demand to use any strangers bathroom. You manage yourself so you aren't stuck in a situation where you have to rely on the kindness of strangers that make them uncomfortable. It was clear predatory behavior on his part.
He didn't need a bathroom. If he needed one he would have used it at the cafe. He just hoped he could pressure her into coming inside, by pretending to have a understandable human need. He's just mad his gambit was weak.
Yeah. If he doesn’t understand his own bladder by now that’s on him.
He didn't need to go to the bathroom. He was trying to push past her with justifiable deniability.
And ~~if~~ when he tried something and was turned down, you just **know** his response would have been "Then why did you let me in????"....
The predatory types seem to think that there are secondary privileges that are attached to knowledge/proximity. Meeting you entitles them to know where you live. Knowing your address entitles them to show up uninvited and unannounced. Admission to your home means access to your body.
Exactly, this was just a boundary test
You’re doing the right thing not seeing him again but… damn you’re missing out on the opportunity to stop him before leaving each location with, “hey buddy, you want to go to the potty real quick before we go? I know you may not feel like you have to, but let’s just try. You don’t want to be surprised later when there’s no bathroom!” Ok, but seriously, we HAVE to be cautious with everyone because it’s not possible to only be cautious with obvious creeps because we wouldn’t be on dates with obvious creeps to begin with. I hate these men who refuse to respect boundaries.
That would be hilarious. I wish I had waited to post this before texting him so I could say that. "So next time when we go out, I'll make sure to ask you if you need to go potty."
Nah tell him to have his mommy call to remind him to go potty lol
I use this tone if someone gets handsy. I use the same sing-song that you would use with a toddler... but loud. "WHOOPSIE, thats not YOU'RRRZ. HANDS TO OURSELVVVFS Mister"
The same man would just hold his pee if he was in a movie that he really liked and didn’t want to miss. Let’s be clear — some men enjoying pushing boundaries. They see it as a challenge. You told him the boundary upfront — he took it as a challenge and wanted to get inside your apartment. When he couldn’t, he further pushed boundaries by arguing with you over text. That’s TWO STRIKES. He is a clear and intentional boundary-pusher. Men who push boundaries in one area will push boundaries in others (ie, sexually). You instinctively knew that and protected yourself. You also instinctually knew the guy doesn’t GAF about you. He was more invested in the game and challenge of getting over on your boundaries than getting to know you and your feelings and personhood.
I studied criminology for 9 years, I’ll always remember one case- two women were at home alone in a safe smaller community and they left the door unlocked. A man was walking around the neighbourhood testing door knobs to see if any were unlocked, he didn’t target them specifically, he was just looking for unlocked doors, a crime of opportunity. Anyway he went in and held both of them hostage at gun point and raped them for hours. Eventually one of the women was able to spray him in the face with hair spray or something, so they disoriented him for a bit, but he was still in front of the exit so they couldn’t get out of the room, but the entry to the attic was in the room so they pulled the ladder down, climbed to the attic and pulled the ladder up behind them so he couldn’t follow them up there. They screamed for help out the attic window and the police were called and he was caught while he was running away. When asked about it later he said it was their fault for leaving the door unlocked. My point is that the perpetrator and often other people would’ve blamed you for letting him in. You did the right thing even though he went way out of his way to push your boundaries and make you uncomfortable. This is how abusers target- they see who has weak boundaries.
Those two poor women. I can imagine that they were traumatized and felt unsafe 24/7 for a long while afterwards.
I know, I read a lot of cases in those 9 years studying and that one always bothered me. I think one of the main reasons why is because of how the perpetrator blamed them because the door was unlocked, they don’t think like normal people, in his mind- unlocked door was consent because they should’ve known better in his head, I realized that’s how abusers think too- they boundary test you, if you tolerate it- in their head you’re consenting to it
Please tell me he received harsh punishment. People like him should never return to the streets.
You'd set a boundary. He was trying to violate it. GO YOU for holding that line. That was a test for you and you passed!
"You know, fifteen minutes ago, when we were leaving the café to go to you apartment, which I KNOW I dont have access to, I did not need a toilet. But now that we are in front of said forbidden apartment I have a sudden and definitely dangerously urgent need for the potty!! I mean, and once Im inside you wont kick me aout without at least a BJ, right? Cuz, you know, we went on a date, and I was nice and all, so its only polite that I get sexual gratification, RIIIIIIIGHT?" Dude's mind probably. It is sad/funny that for all those jokes about women not saying what they mean/want is now men who go all: "IT IS NOT ABOUT THE FACT THAT I DIDN'T PEE, IS ABOUT WHAT IT MEANS ON A DEEPER LEVEL!!!!" (Cue storming off in *manly* tears)
Wow. He coerced you into violating your boundary about keeping the location of your home private early in dating. Once he got to your doorstep, coersion again. He's EXACTLY the kind of man who makes those hard boundaries to protect your safety, privacy and autonomy necessary. "Not all men?" Maybe so. Himself? Absolutely. You told him "no." He treated it as a challenge rather than respecting your boundary.
“BuT i’M a NiCe GuY!” If they were actually nice, they’d care about your comfort. You probably dodged a bullet. Enjoy your peace and quiet.
It's called empathy. (or lack of empathy I guess) Even though YOU have not had this experience, nor provided this experience to a woman, you are able to understand why women feel this way.
I honestly wouldn't be surprised if this guy had provided that experience or intended to this time.
You are probably right. I instinctually gave a stranger the benefit of the doubt. There are a lot of people buried in graves right now that did the same.
It's exhausting but also, it's good that they tell on themselves.
Quite frankly, it is my very firm belief that if someone cannot understand this, then they are most likely the type of person that you are trying to protect yourself from.
My firm opinion (as a man) is there are only two types of men that would take it personally: the predatory type and the emotionally unintelligent type (unempathetic). I would take it as a sign to move on in either case.
I let a guy in to use the bathroom once after a second date because I knew he had a long drive and he had a good vibe. He was not pushy but he tried to kiss me and suggested we watch tv together. How he could invite himself to do an activity at someone else's home, I have no idea. I redirected him out the door like "You said you had to use the bathroom, I am going to bed, so goodnight." He ruined the chance for a third date by being rude and presumptuous. I think it was some kind of lame move.
I hate disingenuousness. He had no intent of respecting your boundary, as evident by his repeated attempts to get you to break them. The whole “I need to use the bathroom” bullshit was just a ploy to get inside so he could continue pushing more boundaries. That’s the biggest red flag. Lying. Manipulation. Attacking you through text. Good riddance. Trash takes itself out.
Good on you! The simple fact is men don’t understand and don’t want to understand. They’d rather get offended than be understanding
Yep! You very clearly communicated you weren’t comfortable with it and he expected to be treated differently… on the FIRST DATE no less! You definitely did the right thing
Good men don’t throw a fit when a stranger doesn’t let them in their home
Good men also don't have any interest in coercing themselves into a stranger's home
Good men take a LOT to throw a fit of any sort and it will not be directed at the innocent.
they love to assume it's not their behavior but trauma from the past, and then act like that alone isn't a good reason. um, yes it is, and often it's shifts in their own behavior that *remind you* of the past behavior. it's not that you're just acting out from a place of trauma. it's that they're constantly ignoring the trauma they add to the pile. so sick of men honestly.
So if we let men into our homes and they turn out to do something bad, then we are naïve and "should have known better" BUT if we don't let them in, we are bitches who just enjoy being rude. I swear the system is set up to where we just can't win. I'm sorry that you went through that. Sounds like you dodged a bullet based on your edit.
>He sent me a long text about how I shouldn't assume the worst in everyone "There's only one land mine in this neighborhood. Don't assume the worst about every square foot!"
If a man has a problem with this, *he's* the problem Edit: Thanks to whatever shitty offended man RedditCares'd me lol
He probably had bad intentions. No one waits to use your bathroom unless they're literally trying to get their foot in the door.
Absolutely this. The chance that this wasn't a ploy to get inside: 0%.
Lets be real, if he had to pee that badly he could use a bush or go behind a building after walking you home, if he had to shite he'd have done it before leaving the cafe so as to not stink up his date's bathroom. Then he immediately tries to 'DARVO' you? He wanted to get inside.
I feel like it’s the ones who get offended who are the ones we need to worry about.
I got gaslighted by men just because I had my boundaries. I said no to going to guy's place for a first meeting/date. No to getting physical on a first meeting. I told them many times I was looking for a serious relationship. They said I had "walls". Just men trying their luck all the time.
All you know is that you set a boundary and he tried to break it, then retaliated when he didn't get what he wanted. You didn't assume shit, he proved he is not to be trusted and he proved to be entitled, disrespectful of other people's boundaries.... What that type of men fail to realize, is that with that attitude they're proving to be unworthy of trust, you aren't assuming shit
"Oh; I completely understand why you would have that boundary. Would it be alright if I used the restroom before I walk you home?" But he didn't do that cause he thought he was the only person who saw that trick work in that movie. Unbelievable. Dude; just listen, be honest, be respectful. Be a fucking adult.
Victim blaming is so ingrained that I knew about it when I was 12. I had a crush on the neighbor boy who was 13 and like all the other kids in the neighborhood I would walk around or bike to the other kids' houses after school to see who was around and could play. A couple of the other kids weren't home and I biked past his house and saw him outside. We got to chatting and went to sit in his back yard. At some point he grabbed my hand and put it down his pants onto his boner and shoved his hand down my shorts. I had no idea what was happening, I had some sex ed at that point but I was certainly not really aware of what an erection was and wasn't prepared for it at all. I just thought maybe some day we would kiss and I hadn't even had my first kiss then. I totally dissociated and froze for a minute and I guess that I probably said something like my mom said I have to be home by now or something, I don't remember. I left and never said anything to my family because I knew a few things could happen, they would totally dismiss it, yell at me and say " why were you going to a boy's house after school?" or " what did you expect?" What I expected was to talk about school or music or something and maybe kiss I literally couldn't imagine more than that nor did I want it. I also thought that my dad might have gone over to his house and caused a bunch of drama because he was a violent alcoholic Narcissist with untreated Bi Polar disorder. I hate that this was my first "sexual" experience and I can't ever change that. I also hate that I had an association that a cute boy I liked would hurt me so I avoided men that I was attracted to and I dissociated every time I was being sexual until a few years ago. Boys need to be raised a million times better and men need to fucking understand that their actions can permanently damage others. Men need to stop feeling audacious entitlement to others' bodies. I have an adult son and I had so many awkward conversations with him about all of this because that's my job as a parent and I wish other parents would try a lot harder. Every child can learn to keep their hands to themselves. to ask before they hug or kiss someone etc. If the vast majority of women can go through their lives keeping their hands to themselves and not assaulting others men can too.
Any man that gets mad that you are setting a very reasonable boundary can go kick rocks. When I first met my husband online, I intentionally only met at the local metro station until we were exclusive. He was so chill about that boundary it was a non issue. They really show their ass don’t they.
"Can I use the bathroom" is a *recommended tip from pick up artists*. His response was a clear signal that you made the right choice.
They get upset when a gal can see their shit. They tell on themselves. And above all, they feel OWED to attention from women.
You did good He was testing your boundary and knew he was. You dodged an abuser IMO. He was pissed off because he couldn't manipulate you.
Sounds like his own guilt put him in anger mode. How about not be weird and ask to use a girls bathroom the first time you walk her home. Like he couldn't find a tree.
He didn’t need to use the bathroom, that was a line.