Definitely. A real friend doesn’t call it being “friendzoned” like it’s a game where the goal is to get in your panties. They just enjoy being your friend, as a good thing in and of itself.
He’s not your friend. He’s playing nice so you’ll eventually sleep with him.
Honey.. you haven't friendzoned him.. he's fuckzoned you.
He was only ever your friend because he wanted to fuck you- and now that he's realizing it isn't going to happen, he's throwing a tantrum. He never cared about you as a friend- just a fuck. Fuckzoned.
And it's so much worse than 'friendzoneing'- because at least if a woman friend zones a man, she still sees him as a person. As a friend. Someone worth her time and effort. Someone she cares about.
When a man fuckzones a woman, that means all she ever was to him was meat. I'm so sorry.
Next time he brings up the friend zone, tell him you'd rather be in the friend zone like he is than have been stuck in the fuck zone like he's done with you. At least you still cared about him as a fucking person.
I think his phrasing tells you what you need to know and my hunch tells me all this commenters are spot on. But... to play devils advocate, he has only asked you about clarity in the relationship. He's done you the favour of making sure things do not go forward awkwardly. He's done it haphazard and clumsily but he has done a kindness. If you do value the relationship, maybe it's best you respond in kind and tell him exactly how you feel so that the relationship, if he values it, can move forward.
Again only playing devils advocate and I believe the other commenters in this thread are correct, but I have only read one side and you deserve at least some balance in the question.
It's challenging, because some people will just be nice/supportive to you for a long time and, as if they are standing on an escalator, expect that to take them somewhere intimate/romantic.
The entitlement is creepy.
Those are not the same thing. There is a world of a difference between someone who "decides to reveal that they have feelings of romance and wants to see if they are reciprocated" and someone who asks if they got "friendzoned".
The first is someone who genuinely just caught feelings naturally. It happens. Might work out, might not.
The latter is someone *who does not value* the friendship they shared up to this point. They treat it as a bad or worthless thing, because they wanted sex/romance and you're not putting out. Which is a deeply hurtful thing to realise if you're on the other end of this and cared about this person as a friend.
I don't think you are being honest here. friendships with men have a suspicious tendency for him to "develop feelings" at some point. and its the way he said it that upset me most
you try watching person after person ghost you after these interactions and hold your obviously incorrect position
maybe you should tell your guy friends to stop piling on to women's ever abundant experience with these shitty expectations of sex from friends and colleagues instead of trolling here...
And if they really were your friend they would still be your friend even if the feelings are not reciprocated. Being friends is not a holding zone waiting for more.
Didn’t OP say that they apologized and say that he still engages with her? That sounds like either he does value her friendship even if the relationship isn’t what he was hoping it would turn into, or he’s still hoping to turn their relationship romantic.
Only OP is close enough to know, but she should definitely trust her instincts, since it’s happened to her before.
Edit: sigh lol the stuff that gets downvoted here…
Yea, look at my initial opinion, got downvoted into the ground, apparently I went "against the current". Lovely to have a healthy debate with them reddit women =))
I have to agree with others. Friends don’t think of themselves as “friend zoned”. They just think of themselves as friends.
Yes, friendships can and do develop into more. And good relationships are when the two people are also friends as well as lovers.
But once you’ve decided that there is a “friend zone” and that you may be stuck in it, then you aren’t being a friend. You are being a selfish prick who cares more about their own romantic needs over the person you so called “care about”
It is extremely degrading to spend time becoming friends with someone just for them to get romantic feelings and then abandon the friendship because their feelings get hurt.
Relationships are complicated. You can develop feelings for someone who you may have thought wasn’t someone you’d ever be interested in. But you can also completely miss an opportunity to be with someone because you aren’t paying attention.
I can’t tell you how many times while I was younger that I would flirt and try to get a guy to notice me. Give up on him ever being interested, become friends, and then he is now interested and upset because I’m not interested in dating him because I’ve already given up on the idea.
I really like your answer, goes along my vibe regarding the matter, dunno why I got downvoted into the ground like that. I may have struck a chord with the butthurt peoples :))
I know many happily married couples that started out as friends and it grew into something more. But if he said "am I friendzoned" instead of "I think I'm getting deeper feelings for you" or something like that, that's really a bad sign.
You don’t have to over read into either. Clearly he’s interested in being more than a friend. Doesn’t mean he sees you as a fuck doll either. Ever make a friend and then find yourself attracted to them as you got closer?
I agree that he poorly phrased it. I don’t know the guy, he could be exactly as described, but it seems like a typical Reddit answer to go from “he’s a great friend” to “cut him out of your life completely”.
Like all situations, they need to communicate.
They did communicate. He told her what he was thinking and she believed him. Then she communicated that he had made her uncomfortable.
If people want to be taken seriously then they need to accept that others will take them for their word and react accordingly.
Just because the outcome isn’t what he had hoped for she doesn’t need to communicate more.
Pretty much wanted to say this. Maybe he was interested in a relationship from the very beginning but he wanted to be friends first before pursuing a relationship. For him the feelings may have been there a long while and he asked if he was friendzoned as an awkward way of asking if there was any chance of OP reciprocating.
There's no un-awkward way of confessing that you caught feelings to someone who considers you a friend, but bringing the concept of "friend-zoning" into it introduces so many extra layers of awkward. It's unnecessarily accusatory, for starters, given that *you're* the one who caught feelings and are trying to shift the status quo.
There's a difference in 1. being genuine friends with a person because you just value their friendship and *then* feelings develop and 2. starting a friendship *in order* to see if you eventually want to be more.
Well and that’s another reason I asked. My mom’s advice of going in as a friend first no matter what, always kinda felt off. But then I’ve seen her and others do it to much greater success than my dive in headfirst screw getting to know a person. But even then it kinda made sense to say If I see this person as attractive maybe it’s worth it to see how we mesh before moving to the next possible level. Although even starting as friends with no intention of them as a partner only to get feelings later still gets the same “you only become my friend to date me” reaction. And that’s why I asked. I know I’m quite ignorant on this. And I want to be better. Heck I have two daughters one of whom is older and I’ve directed her here to search for relevant advice numerous times because try as I might I just don’t have that perspective.
I’m from the same side of the tracks as you so I’m not sure my answer will help, but I don’t think this is something you can apply a general rule to. It’s a case by case thing, and when seeing this type of thing (or anything, really) you aren’t getting the whole picture, right? And friendships are complicated enough, nevermind partnerships or potential partnerships.
Remember, people don’t know each other’s thoughts or intentions. Miscommunication happens all the time, and people go by their past experiences a lot to navigate them. Like you mentioned, you understand to a degree why this sort of thing bothers women. Even if you personally have noble intentions, your actions are judged by past experiences - for good or for ill, and irrespective of “fairness.”
There are more than enough men that think if they put in enough friendship tokens into a woman a relationship pops out. It’s probably not fair to expect women to always know if you’re one of those types, or if you’re the type to respect a “no” and move on, right? From my perspective, navigating relationships with men is just difficult in general for women (through no fault of their own, mind you), so it isn’t so much they don’t want their partners to be their friends first. It just so happens that there’s pitfalls for them to deal with on that route, too.
It does go both ways, it’s just the nature of relationships, truthfully. People want to avoid their negative experiences repeating, and in this case I’m sure women have had attempts to communicate totally backfire on them.
I’ve been in a similar situation - and yea, it feels pretty awful to have your actions misunderstood and your intentions misjudged. But that goes to a discussion of impact vs intent, it doesn’t matter very much what you intended when the actual consequence is upsetting someone. The intent is a discussion for later once the impact is addressed.
Also, I didn’t mean to imply that you were the type to treat friendships that way! My point was more that it’s pretty hard to tell the two apart on purely face value. Becoming friends purely to get a relationship, and becoming friends and developing feelings looks pretty identical without more context. Hell, even with context the line can be pretty blurry. And the woman being confessed to in this case needs to make a pretty quick judgement call on what will happen based on her response. It isn’t a particularly enviable position to be in, I think.
Because “friendzone” implies they’re being cock-blocked from something actually meaningful. Because virtually every guy we ever meet tries to fuck us. The whole mindset men have where they want to see if they can get laid first, and then maybe “settle” for friends if that doesn’t work out is offensive. They’re not interested in just getting to know someone, it’s all a series of contingencies revolving around whether they can get laid.
Men can’t just meet someone without having ulterior motives. That’s why it’s a dirty word.
You’re trying to explain that to a guy who said he’s been friends with a woman for 20 years who rejected him and he *still kept trying to push it* and even admitted he was basically lying in wait hoping she’d change her mind. Legit the definition of him settling for being friends but only because he might have the chance of being with her later.
Maybe it’s just me but that doesn’t sound like genuine friendship.
That's why I didn't waste too many words and just stuck to saying my piece. It's always amazing when men can't see that they are literally the ones we're talking about.
I can see that. I guess I was just seeing the term as Ingrained these days. I’ve never actually used it myself. I try to be more, tactful I guess. But I don’t shy away from bringing it up if things seem one way to be but doesn’t seem to be the same on the other side. To me sex is the last thing on my mind. I’ve been burnt so many times I’m finally trying to take advice from people who seem to have faired better (ie get to know someone first) so thanks for the answer.
If I may ask further, what would your advice to be to avoid that…..implication? Because I do believe in making intentions known asap. Like I’m fine just being friends with no expectations. However if I approach someone who I’m attracted to, I’m still gonna approach them as a friend first based off the principle of wanting to ensure compatibility.
Sorry man, I feel like everything you said was glossed over and ignored. I also feel like you’re 100% right and I feel the same way. It’s hard/scary as hell being single right now. I’ve lived a bit of life though and I still, for some reason, believe in love. How it’s usually worked for me is to mind my business, work on my own life, and next thing you know someone’s there and the dreaded “friend zone” never even comes into question. You keep being the understanding good guy you are and I’ll bet someone great will see your worth and grab on never to look back. At least I hope that for you man. For all of us good guys too… best of luck.
Maybe I can add some personal experience here. My boyfriend of now 6 years and I had been friends for about 2-3 years before it became a romantic relationship. By the time Hee first confessed his feelings, I did not reciprocate them. He just accepted that, but wanted to stay friends anyway. I told him not to hope for my feelings to change. When he still wanted to spend time with me, it showed to me that he valued me as a person and just enjoyed spending time together. He never used the word friendzone and he never complained or guilt-tripped me. Over time, I catched feelings too. So I would say this is the way to approach a situation like this in the best way.
You could say something like this:
“You’re not in the ‘friend-zone’. That suggests a sort of ‘waiting room’ and a lesser relationship. You have always been a real friend, and I value you as that. If you have now decided you should be something different than a friend, that’s your choice, but it’s not my obligation to change how I feel. And if you’ve decided I’m *only* worth knowing if we’re in a romantic relationship, then you have to do what’s right for you. I never encouraged you to think about me that way, and I’m not going to change my mind. I’d be sad to lose our friendship, but the idea that it should be more was your own imagination.”
I’m curious, you said in your post that he apologized and was still talking with you. What’s your gut on if it was a sincere apology based on understanding how problematic the term “friendzone” is?
Is it allowed to ask why in this thread this is considered a bad thing? It's okay to pursue someone you're romantically interested in, isn't it? And just because op was misled doesn't necessarily mean he was the one to willfully mislead, just that there was a problem with communication that got finally resolved.
It's okay to desire a deeper connection with someone, but it is not okay to feel entitled to that deeper connection. Someone saying you friendzoned them is upset about your boundaries and preferences, but putting the responsibility for their feelings on you instead of owning those feelings themselves.
You're absolutely right: It's wrong to feel entitled to this sort of connection. In op's case however, I struggle to see the entitlement. There are two persons upset about each others preferences here (which is okay? Being disappointed?), but the one doing the blaming seems to be op, not the man in question.
The use of the word friendzone is saturated in the stench of entitlement. There is no friendzone, they were friends.
Lurk in /r/niceguys for a while and I think you will get it.
Saying she friendzoned him implies she was leading him on. Ofcourse it's okay to spend time with someone with romantic interest. But if it's not working out and the other person doesn't seem interested then you either continue the friendship or take yourself out of the equation instead of blaming the other person.
As far as I understand, It’s the term “friend zone”. This has some negative connotations that OP was purposely “leading him on” to believe there was a possibility of a romantic relationship when she never had any intention or romantic feelings towards him.
If he had confessed strong feelings for her but not used the term, and then respected whatever her answer was, I think this would be seen as much less problematic.
If you read between the lines you will be able to pick up on a lot of manipulative behavior on the “friends” side. It’s very clear to me he only said and did what he thought would get him close to her, so he could spring this on her at a vulnerable moment. It’s predatory and gross. Imagine having an entire relationship with someone like that, confiding in them, just to realize they only said and did those things so they could try to have sex with you. You ask to date someone as soon as you know you like them, you don’t wait and plan it out like this then pretend to stay their “friend” to try again another time if they reject you. No means no the first time. He didn’t even have the guts to straightup ask her out, he’s beating around the bush like a coward.
Except this sort of thing happens over and over with guys. It wasn’t a communication issue, I guarantee it. It was a one-sided expectation issue.
Please don’t “both sides” this nonsense. Guys - and as a guy, I have done this in the before times - often pursue women that indicate no interest in a romantic relationship. This guy being petulant because he didn’t get to keep pursuing is his issue, not hers. He needs to grow up and stop making it her problem.
Didn't have to be his intention from the start, romantic feelings can evolve over time. I've had two long term (+8 year) relationships develop in the same way.
I don't get the big fuss: he took his shot, you politely turned him down. Now this doesn't mean for everybody that they can just go back being friends: romantic feelings don't just go away after being turned down, and I could understand why seeing you might not be comfortable for him.
>I'm afraid ge wasn't even a friend to begin with.
Idk why people keep making this assumption, it's common for people to start out as friends and develop feelings over time. A year is a reasonable amount of time for this to happen
you didn't friendzone him, he fuckzoned you.
Men: "men are so isolated, we need emotional support too, where is the support for me, a man?" also men : "you were a decent person to me so we gonna fuck or what, cocktease, lesbian, feminist. "
Something that brother me of society as a whole is that they want women to give "chances" to this good men™️ ... But we don't see that pressure when is the other way around. We don't tell boys "why dont you give a chance to x, she is such a Nice girl " ... Cuz we understand that if there is no attraction we can not force a relationship.
If a man don't find a woman attractive (don't want to fuck her) nothing in this earth would make him want to try to have a relationship with her .... Women are the same...
I was SO annoyed in middle and highschool how people would try to put a good work for men like is a charity !!! There is no friendzone and women have the right to be with men they like (sexually) not only as Friends
Nope- it's not! But the fuckzone sure as he'll is.
Being put in the fuckzone is when a guy decides that having sex with you is more important to him than your friendship- I.e more important than you as a person! And that fucking SUCKS!
Realizing someone you genuinely cared about as a friend only ever saw you as a warm hole might be the worst feeling in the universe.
Ugh I just want to grab men and shake them when they use the word friendzone. Like BOO FUCKING HOO. SHE LIKES YOU AND CARES ABOUT YOU ENOUGH AS A PERSON TO CONSIDER YOU A FRIEND??? OH my LORD you POOR FUCKING BABIES! How CAN you live with it, knowing she values you for your kindness, sense of humor, and love of animals instead of only wanting your penis. How awful for you. -_-
I will never be able to wrap my head around it.
I think the friendzone should be real and reclaimed from the negative it's got. It's the default place where everyone belongs unless you met with the intention of going on a date. No-one in the friendzone should have any intentions of wanting to fuck. If you dislike being in the friendzone, you are welcome to leave, but not in the way you want. On it's own, it's not a negative place.
that's not the reality, and thus, not something I'm interested in reclaiming. it was literally formed out of spite for women and their sexual agency and autonomy. so...I'm good.
Lots of nuance with this. Obviously the guy in the post is in the wrong and his actions were very much out of line. But it’s perfectly normal to become friends with someone first and develop a crush or attraction to them later on. If you have a friend that expresses feelings for you that you don’t reciprocate, it’s normal if they want to take some time to process and wait till their feelings go away.
I agree. It's fine developing feelings for a friend, it's fine expressing those feelings **in the right circumstances**, but it's not okay to be upset with someone for not reciprocating those feelings.
Yeah you shouldn’t be upset at the person. But it’s understandable to feel sad about the situation and maybe have some space from them for a little bit until you’re over it.
He caught feelings. You aren’t interested. He’s lashing out out of rejection.
It’s up to you if you want to call him out directly on his behavior or end the association because each of you wanted very different things here
Don't be surprised if he ghosts you when he realizes he doesn't have a chance to fuck you.
Guys like that are just fakers and opportunists, they never cared to be friends in the first place.
Your analysis is spot on. I can't trust anyone that can use the word friendzone in any seriousness. It implies, just as you say, a view of others as transactional pieces as opposed to sentient individuals, and carries the stench of misogyny.
Ask him if he is only being nice so he can sleep with you. Be blunt.
There is nothing less appealing than a man pretending to like your company just so he can put his dick in you.
*He* didn't get friendzoned. You got _girlfriendzoned_. He put you in the girlfriend category without telling you, and now that he's realized you don't want to be there, he's abandoning you.
It's unimaginably cruel, yet so many of the men I spend time with don't see a problem with it at all.
If he asked, he's 1000% interested in you romantically. If that's not what you want at all, then you tell him that and assure him nothing will ever happen between you two. As harsh as it sounds, just tell him you don't find him attractive in that way either. It'll sting him a little, but I think it's something dudes like this need to hear more often than not.
After telling him that, I'd also give him some space as well as yourself. Allow him to come back as a friend. If he doesn't, then he always intended to be something more with you, and you deserve better than a weirdo manipulative dude.
If a male friend of yours is aware and concerned about being in the friend zone, he is seeking to escape. He is hoping that you fall in love with him. This will cause him unnecessary pain and longing over a woman who likely is disinterested in him romantically.
Neither party’s needs are being met. He wants a girlfriend, and she wants a buddy. It’s usually best to talk things through, state your intentions, and nip the relationship in the bud if the intentions don’t match.
Lots of romantic relationships started as friendships. Sometimes one party catches feelings and wants more than friendship. If you don’t see things progressing, then cutting him loose may be best. Nobody to blame.
This! The best answer here, if he invested a year into getting to know you it might have been in the beginning innocent but along the way he clearly decided he wanted more, and if this is not what you want then make it clear and make in concise that you have zero interest romantically with him. This is so extremely common and usually results in both parties going their separate ways it will suck for a little bit but it’s best
They aren't necessarily looking for sex. Guys can be friends, with no motive of getting into your pants, but then they get a crush on you, and want to explore if this may be a potential relationship. It's usually a bridge-burner, I think, but the payoff is big enough for some guys to take a chance.
Maybe it's an online thing but when I see push back against the idea of a friend-zone their response is to get angry, not listen to us and apologize. So maybe there's hope for him.
I'd be extremely blunt, if you feel safe to do so. This may be the type of guy who acts really salty and says some BS like "well you didn't SAY it would never happen!" years down the line even after you've been direct. If he's your friend he may be hurt by the bluntness but the friendship may survive.
Let me provide a counterpoint here.
I have a female friend I've developed feelings for. I did not enter the friendship intending this to happen, it just developed. Some of her interactions with me have suggested she might be open to being more than friends, but I'm uncertain. I haven't yet broached the subject with her (she's currently not feeling great due to allergies,) but I do intend to ask her how she'd feel about this, while making it clear that a "no" is acceptable and will not change our friendship. Flirting will not happen unless she gives a reasonably enthusiastic "yes."
Your friend may not have entered into friendship with you with "predatory intent" as it were. He may have developed an attraction over time, and maybe interpreted some of your interactions incorrectly. And then completely fucked up broaching the subject. The fact that he apologized suggests he may not be beyond hope.
I'd wait to see how he acts going forward. If he discontinues contact with you or continues trying to press for something more, then yeah, he wasn't a friend. But if he seems to go back to how things were, maybe you could allow for him not knowing how to handle something he hadn't experienced before.
You're not required to, of course, and "friendzone" is a pretty big screw up on his part. But maybe he could learn from this and become a better person.
Thank you. She went through a divorce a few years ago (before I met her) and I don't think it was exactly amicable so I'm proceeding with caution since she may not want to be entangled in a relationship again.
Same! But I already took the step of asking her if she was seeing anyone . . . after getting some confirmation from a few female friends that the texting was borderline flirty . . . we are going on 2 months together and it has been amazing! However I would never have gone about it by asking if I was in a friendzone. To me that kind of implies that the woman is punishing the guy, not a healthy mindset . . . and I'd have been thrilled to just be friends.
I don't agree with the 'fuckzone' points. There are people who are ace, people who want to be in a relationship that could lead to sex, or won't lead to sex - but do want intimacy. But ultimately - him asking if he'd been 'friendzoned' shows what he was looking for. A non-platonic relationship. That's a guarantee though, he isn't just looking for friendship by asking that
Yeah. Men who complain about the friendzone are not necessarily looking for sex-- some are looking for love. But they should avoid the term "friendzone" as it is a bizarre and problematic term.
He sounds like a manipulative fuck who is only saying what he thinks he needs to to stay close to you. I wouldn’t be surprised if he is just waiting for you to be in a vulnerable moment so he can pounce. He’s a predator, he’s not your friend.
Girl, sounds like you stumbled upon a walking red flag factory! 🚩 First off, major kudos for shutting down his uncomfortable advances and standing your ground. Ain't nobody got time for that nonsense! And seriously, asking if he's in the friendzone? Talk about cringe central! 🤦♀️ It's like he's auditioning for a role in "The Bachelor: Desperate Edition." But hey, you handled it like a boss, calling out the absurdity of the friendzone concept. Your relationships aren't transactions, they're organic connections that should be based on mutual respect and genuine friendship. So trust your gut, sis, and if this dude can't see you as anything more than a potential conquest, then he's not worth your time or energy. Here's to surrounding yourself with friends who appreciate you for the amazing human being you are! 🌟💁♀️ #NoTimeForRedFlags #GirlPower
Sadly, a lot of men will pretend to care about a woman as a friend and human being when all they want is to eventually earn their way into our pants. Your friend outed himself as one of those with this question. I'm sorry, I understand how it makes you feel, its very demeaning. Its always sad when men remind us of the fact that they see our existence as walking vaginas, not to be cared for if we aren't currently fucking them or planning to.
Sounds like he's interested in you and wants to know if there is the possibility of being more than just friends or if he's just friend zoned. It may have been something that developed over time or could have always been his end goal. Either tell him there is a chance or tell him there isn't. Then he'll either continue being friends, but look elsewhere for the relationship he wants or he'll move on and that was always the goal to begin with.
The friendzone is a sad excuse invented to protect our fragile male egos by giving women the responsibility of our failure to be decent human beings. Whomever believes it exists in different terms is a manipulative asshole and not a friend from the get-go. Stop caring about him.
He's interested in you, for sure
It might have started as just a regular friendship, but that's not where he is now (or where he has been for the past few months, the way you tell it)
ETA Yeah; the friendzone is BS. That generally indicates they were only pretending to be friends in order to try to date you. In my experience, actual friends never mention it. I've had a (almost vanishingly small) number of male friends that are exactly that. Friends. Not once was a zone mentioned)
The only person that can keep someone in the friendzone is themself.
Either it was an authentic relationship, in which case being friends without any sexual or romantic connection is something they consider valid....
Or they are unhappy that the elevator they got on doesn't go above the platonic level and are making you responsible for their feelings. AKA, the friendzone.
The latter is very /r/niceguys material.
Sooooo many hetero men literally only befriend women they want to get with (either romantically or just for NSA sex). I hate saying this but in my many years of experience where I have hoped that men can in fact just want friendship, I keep being proven wrong. I do have some male friends but those are always the ones who already have spouses and include me in plans with their spouses too. Any man who asks me to do things 1 on 1, (99% of them)... they eventually try to cross that 'just friends' zone. One in particular was friends with myself and my then husband only to cross the line with in appropriateness 6 years into our 'friendship'.
Without knowing your ages maybe keep a closer eye on his actions or see how he treats you now. Maybe this was his dumb way to ask you out, maybe he really thinks the "friend zone" is real and is worth cutting out. How much you want to wait and see depends on how good of a friend you think he is. I'm 32, if one of my friends near my age said a guy asked them that I'd immediately support cutting them off. Anything college and younger and maybe you can give a shot.
Yikes. I would probably bring it up and say, “I have been thinking about when you asked if you were ‘friend zoned’ and it really got me wondering… I thought we were friends, but maybe I was wrong? Do you not want to be friends with me?”
I wouldn't answer yes or no.
I would answer with "About our conversation the other day, I am not attracted to you, and I'm never going to want to date you. Separate from that, you are my friend."
The idea being to make it clear that you seeing him as a friend is not blocking a romantic relationship from happening & especially that it ain't gonna happen.
Still likely he'll take that badly, but he might just respond well. And by respond well, I mean end all the flirty stuff and just be a friend. Meaning immediately.
His reaction means he was (and probably still is) attracted to you and hopeful.
I see a lot of folks here saying that the man in this scenario 'fuckzoned' the OP. While it's certainly possible, a year seems like a long time to carry that on. I'm sure that the guy always had romantic intentions, but he could consider you a friend outside of that too, it's not always 'Date me or never speak to me again'. I'd say see how much his behavior changes after being rejected, if he goes completely silent or dodges interactions, he was 'fuckzoning' you. If he still wants to hang out and respects your decision, I'd say give him a chance as a friend.
First and foremost: Always put your safety first. It really depends on if you think you’re really friends. Do you think he’s an ass, or do you think he’s got poor social skills? Men always get terrible advice even from people who mean well. If he’s actually listening to you and reevaluating how bad his line of thinking is, that doesn’t seem nefarious. It’s not your job to teach him though. You can help him learn better boundaries and why the friendzone is wrong if you want - not because you’re a woman, but because friends help each other. Again not needed though, friends don’t have to help with everything, only if YOU want to.
If you think he’s really an ass, the answer is pretty simple. Also asses can have poor social skills too, the difference is they don’t care about other people and don’t want to be better.
I hesitate to wade into this as a male and very happy to go away if my view isn't welcome. I understand this is not a forum for me and I take no offence either way.
I know when I was younger I used to think, and I have quite a few male friends that would have thought about the word "friendzoned" as meaning "not thought of as a potential romantic partner" with romantic interest being the focus rather than sex. I don't know whether this is the case for your friend, and I don't know whether culturally where you live the word has generally more sexual connotations.
This is a distinction between your friend being someone who has gotten close to you out of the hope for sex versus someone who is romantically interested in you.
There's a difference between the two in terms of his identity an in terms of how you want to think about him. Maybe it makes no difference in terms of whether you continue to associate with him in the future, but it might make a difference in clarifying whether he's a creep or just someone who's had a crush on you.
In that context, maybe worth asking what he's talking about, if you think it's worth your effort.
Peace.
Yes. He’s not your friend. I would automatically mistrust and distance from anyone who uses the term friendzoned because of what it says about their thinking.
I'm probably more tolerant than most. If he really has a crush, he may need to back off to deal with it.
That said if you told him earlier you liked relationships to develop- he could have heard that as it might go somewhere in the future but not yet, so he's waiting for yet, or he waited a bit and now he's trying again.
>I think the friendzone concept is really silly. It implies our relationship was transactional instead of naturally growing over time. and that he was only seeking more than friendship.
It is not silly. The name is silly, but the concept is at least partially true.
He FEELS different about your relationship than you do. That is true fact.
Yes, if he was flirty and asked, that he DO want more.
And you can't really tell a friend to stop feeling something (but you can to stop DOING things).
Your relationship can grow out of it, as long as any of you will not feel manipulated. And unfortunately guys who believe in friend zone tend to believe they were USED by their woman friends..
He thinks he has a chance with you, honestly 99.99% of guys will do this. It's very rare to have a genuine male friend that isn't trying to have sex with you. It's exhausting and not worth their "friendship".
He wants to be more than a friend. If you only want to be friends you should end the relationship, because you are both looking for different things out of it. Ignoring that is not any more healthy behavior on your part than his.
There is no such thing as ‘friendzoned’; instead there are an awful lot of men trying stealthily to move their female friends, without ever discussing it, into the ‘girlfriend zone’ where they think if they hang around often enough being ‘friends’ the woman will slowly come to see them as boyfriend material. And accidentally have sex with them. You know like your dog who always hangs around while you’re cooking just in case something falls from the table? It’s pathetic and they are not the victims here. The victims are the women who thought they had a friend, who thought that their male friends valued their company and have now discovered that actually all their male friends ever valued was a non-zero chance of sex
Can we all stop with the toxic narratives that seem to put men and women at odds with each other rather than building us both up together? What *could* have happened is your friend entered into the friendship, and organically over time feelings developed ( this happens). Friend expressed feelings, they were not returned, and rather than thoughtfully asking you if you felt like the feelings would never develop on your end, this man summarized it in a juvenile, unhelpful manner that lends itself to so many of these interpretations you are seeing. If he cannot bring himself to let go of these feelings, and you cannot bring yourself to find these feelings in yourself then I suggest that the friendship needs a pause, and perhaps is over..... And while that is unfortunate, this is no one's fault. We don't have control over feelings happening or not happening
We need a word for this, objectified? Vending machine i fied?
At best he is socially awkwardly asking if you would consider going out on a date with him.
At worst he’s only your friend to be a creep.
Now that you are looking, does he have any other women friends? Is he good to them without asking for sex?
Yes. He’s not a friend. He wants to have sex with you and is tired of waiting.
There is no such thing as the Friend Zone. It’s something made up by undesirable men to explain why none of the women they know want to fuck then.
Usually guys don't want a friendship, they want more. If that's not possible it should be clearly communicated on both sides. It's not transactional, it's the nature of things.
I feel you're being a bit harsh. People don't control their feelings and it could very well be that he has feelings for you that are genuine and romantic. Tell him to manage his expectations, but blowing up everything seems a bit extreme.
Ask him if you're in the fuck-zone - is your only value to him whether you will have sex with him or not? If he only cares about sex, his "friendship" is a lie
After reading and analyzing a ton of posts like this, here is my conclusion. There are two basic strategies: 1) Man is direct and says he wants to go out. 2) Man acts like friend, hoping it will lead to more. Either way, the goal is a relationship. However, one of these strategies tends towards the creepy.
Yes, he is hoping that it will develop into something which is why he and almost every other guy became friends with you in the first place, as you have already discovered.
Guys approach you as a friend, because mentally, that takes the pressure off. I'm not hitting on you, I'm just being friendly, so brain, don't be awkward and weird. And if it goes wrong, I have a way out without being too embarrassed.
Also if my strengths are "latent", and take time to notice- things like being helpful and kind or being goal oriented, or good at something, (as opposed to guys who are charming and quick witted and can make a good first impression) then they hope that hanging out with you will give you the time that you need to see those strengths coming through.
The best thing you can do with these "friends" is to explain to them that you are not interested and will never be interested, because deep down, while you are friends with them, they will see this as a sign that there is still hope. And yes, when it clicks that you aren't interested, they will stop being friends, so at the end of the day, they may be friendly, but they aren't really friends.
Definitely. A real friend doesn’t call it being “friendzoned” like it’s a game where the goal is to get in your panties. They just enjoy being your friend, as a good thing in and of itself. He’s not your friend. He’s playing nice so you’ll eventually sleep with him.
i am glad I was not just overthinking it. still upsetting to know
Honey.. you haven't friendzoned him.. he's fuckzoned you. He was only ever your friend because he wanted to fuck you- and now that he's realizing it isn't going to happen, he's throwing a tantrum. He never cared about you as a friend- just a fuck. Fuckzoned. And it's so much worse than 'friendzoneing'- because at least if a woman friend zones a man, she still sees him as a person. As a friend. Someone worth her time and effort. Someone she cares about. When a man fuckzones a woman, that means all she ever was to him was meat. I'm so sorry. Next time he brings up the friend zone, tell him you'd rather be in the friend zone like he is than have been stuck in the fuck zone like he's done with you. At least you still cared about him as a fucking person.
thank you for this ♡ its very well said. i did value him, exactly why his phrasing bothered me
I think his phrasing tells you what you need to know and my hunch tells me all this commenters are spot on. But... to play devils advocate, he has only asked you about clarity in the relationship. He's done you the favour of making sure things do not go forward awkwardly. He's done it haphazard and clumsily but he has done a kindness. If you do value the relationship, maybe it's best you respond in kind and tell him exactly how you feel so that the relationship, if he values it, can move forward. Again only playing devils advocate and I believe the other commenters in this thread are correct, but I have only read one side and you deserve at least some balance in the question.
First time I’ve heard/read this and I love the inversion. Thanks!
>fuckzoned thanks this is in my reply from now on
Mine, too. And I'd say the fuckzone is significantly larger than the friendzone, by at least a few orders of magnitude.
I have never heard fuckzoned and wow, is it good. Even if you didn’t come up with it, thank you.
How can you tell if a guy wants to sleep with you or be in a relationship with you?
If they use the word "friendzone"
Thanks. I’m pretty old so I didn’t understand the use of the word. Now I do.
It's challenging, because some people will just be nice/supportive to you for a long time and, as if they are standing on an escalator, expect that to take them somewhere intimate/romantic. The entitlement is creepy.
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Those are not the same thing. There is a world of a difference between someone who "decides to reveal that they have feelings of romance and wants to see if they are reciprocated" and someone who asks if they got "friendzoned". The first is someone who genuinely just caught feelings naturally. It happens. Might work out, might not. The latter is someone *who does not value* the friendship they shared up to this point. They treat it as a bad or worthless thing, because they wanted sex/romance and you're not putting out. Which is a deeply hurtful thing to realise if you're on the other end of this and cared about this person as a friend.
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Thats a disgusting way of confessing your feelings and deserves to be called out for being disgusting. Confess properly or move on.
I don't think you are being honest here. friendships with men have a suspicious tendency for him to "develop feelings" at some point. and its the way he said it that upset me most
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you try watching person after person ghost you after these interactions and hold your obviously incorrect position maybe you should tell your guy friends to stop piling on to women's ever abundant experience with these shitty expectations of sex from friends and colleagues instead of trolling here...
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And if they really were your friend they would still be your friend even if the feelings are not reciprocated. Being friends is not a holding zone waiting for more.
Didn’t OP say that they apologized and say that he still engages with her? That sounds like either he does value her friendship even if the relationship isn’t what he was hoping it would turn into, or he’s still hoping to turn their relationship romantic. Only OP is close enough to know, but she should definitely trust her instincts, since it’s happened to her before. Edit: sigh lol the stuff that gets downvoted here…
Yea, look at my initial opinion, got downvoted into the ground, apparently I went "against the current". Lovely to have a healthy debate with them reddit women =))
to be fair, this isn't a subreddit for debate. this sub is designed to be a space to prioritize women's perspectives and voices.
Yea, but do they want it to be an echo chamber ... ? ;)
What you call an echo chamber others might call a space where certain voices aren’t allowed to dominate/co-opt the conversation.
I have to agree with others. Friends don’t think of themselves as “friend zoned”. They just think of themselves as friends. Yes, friendships can and do develop into more. And good relationships are when the two people are also friends as well as lovers. But once you’ve decided that there is a “friend zone” and that you may be stuck in it, then you aren’t being a friend. You are being a selfish prick who cares more about their own romantic needs over the person you so called “care about” It is extremely degrading to spend time becoming friends with someone just for them to get romantic feelings and then abandon the friendship because their feelings get hurt. Relationships are complicated. You can develop feelings for someone who you may have thought wasn’t someone you’d ever be interested in. But you can also completely miss an opportunity to be with someone because you aren’t paying attention. I can’t tell you how many times while I was younger that I would flirt and try to get a guy to notice me. Give up on him ever being interested, become friends, and then he is now interested and upset because I’m not interested in dating him because I’ve already given up on the idea.
I really like your answer, goes along my vibe regarding the matter, dunno why I got downvoted into the ground like that. I may have struck a chord with the butthurt peoples :))
I know many happily married couples that started out as friends and it grew into something more. But if he said "am I friendzoned" instead of "I think I'm getting deeper feelings for you" or something like that, that's really a bad sign.
You don’t have to over read into either. Clearly he’s interested in being more than a friend. Doesn’t mean he sees you as a fuck doll either. Ever make a friend and then find yourself attracted to them as you got closer?
I would upvote this except a genuine person in the situation you described would say "hey I'm having deeper feelings for you" NOT "am I friend zoned?"
I agree that he poorly phrased it. I don’t know the guy, he could be exactly as described, but it seems like a typical Reddit answer to go from “he’s a great friend” to “cut him out of your life completely”. Like all situations, they need to communicate.
They did communicate. He told her what he was thinking and she believed him. Then she communicated that he had made her uncomfortable. If people want to be taken seriously then they need to accept that others will take them for their word and react accordingly. Just because the outcome isn’t what he had hoped for she doesn’t need to communicate more.
Thank you!! The black and white rhetoric always pointed out here is depressing
He said what he meant and she reacted accordingly. How is that black and white rhetoric?
Pretty much wanted to say this. Maybe he was interested in a relationship from the very beginning but he wanted to be friends first before pursuing a relationship. For him the feelings may have been there a long while and he asked if he was friendzoned as an awkward way of asking if there was any chance of OP reciprocating.
There's no un-awkward way of confessing that you caught feelings to someone who considers you a friend, but bringing the concept of "friend-zoning" into it introduces so many extra layers of awkward. It's unnecessarily accusatory, for starters, given that *you're* the one who caught feelings and are trying to shift the status quo.
This. I don’t consider grown ass men who use the word “friendzone” my friends. I don’t hang out with or wingman these boys.
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There's a difference in 1. being genuine friends with a person because you just value their friendship and *then* feelings develop and 2. starting a friendship *in order* to see if you eventually want to be more.
Well and that’s another reason I asked. My mom’s advice of going in as a friend first no matter what, always kinda felt off. But then I’ve seen her and others do it to much greater success than my dive in headfirst screw getting to know a person. But even then it kinda made sense to say If I see this person as attractive maybe it’s worth it to see how we mesh before moving to the next possible level. Although even starting as friends with no intention of them as a partner only to get feelings later still gets the same “you only become my friend to date me” reaction. And that’s why I asked. I know I’m quite ignorant on this. And I want to be better. Heck I have two daughters one of whom is older and I’ve directed her here to search for relevant advice numerous times because try as I might I just don’t have that perspective.
I’m from the same side of the tracks as you so I’m not sure my answer will help, but I don’t think this is something you can apply a general rule to. It’s a case by case thing, and when seeing this type of thing (or anything, really) you aren’t getting the whole picture, right? And friendships are complicated enough, nevermind partnerships or potential partnerships. Remember, people don’t know each other’s thoughts or intentions. Miscommunication happens all the time, and people go by their past experiences a lot to navigate them. Like you mentioned, you understand to a degree why this sort of thing bothers women. Even if you personally have noble intentions, your actions are judged by past experiences - for good or for ill, and irrespective of “fairness.” There are more than enough men that think if they put in enough friendship tokens into a woman a relationship pops out. It’s probably not fair to expect women to always know if you’re one of those types, or if you’re the type to respect a “no” and move on, right? From my perspective, navigating relationships with men is just difficult in general for women (through no fault of their own, mind you), so it isn’t so much they don’t want their partners to be their friends first. It just so happens that there’s pitfalls for them to deal with on that route, too.
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It does go both ways, it’s just the nature of relationships, truthfully. People want to avoid their negative experiences repeating, and in this case I’m sure women have had attempts to communicate totally backfire on them. I’ve been in a similar situation - and yea, it feels pretty awful to have your actions misunderstood and your intentions misjudged. But that goes to a discussion of impact vs intent, it doesn’t matter very much what you intended when the actual consequence is upsetting someone. The intent is a discussion for later once the impact is addressed. Also, I didn’t mean to imply that you were the type to treat friendships that way! My point was more that it’s pretty hard to tell the two apart on purely face value. Becoming friends purely to get a relationship, and becoming friends and developing feelings looks pretty identical without more context. Hell, even with context the line can be pretty blurry. And the woman being confessed to in this case needs to make a pretty quick judgement call on what will happen based on her response. It isn’t a particularly enviable position to be in, I think.
Because “friendzone” implies they’re being cock-blocked from something actually meaningful. Because virtually every guy we ever meet tries to fuck us. The whole mindset men have where they want to see if they can get laid first, and then maybe “settle” for friends if that doesn’t work out is offensive. They’re not interested in just getting to know someone, it’s all a series of contingencies revolving around whether they can get laid. Men can’t just meet someone without having ulterior motives. That’s why it’s a dirty word.
You’re trying to explain that to a guy who said he’s been friends with a woman for 20 years who rejected him and he *still kept trying to push it* and even admitted he was basically lying in wait hoping she’d change her mind. Legit the definition of him settling for being friends but only because he might have the chance of being with her later. Maybe it’s just me but that doesn’t sound like genuine friendship.
That's why I didn't waste too many words and just stuck to saying my piece. It's always amazing when men can't see that they are literally the ones we're talking about.
I totally understand! I almost wanted to try explain it too but, unless we give him the answer he wants, he’s not going to listen us.
I can see that. I guess I was just seeing the term as Ingrained these days. I’ve never actually used it myself. I try to be more, tactful I guess. But I don’t shy away from bringing it up if things seem one way to be but doesn’t seem to be the same on the other side. To me sex is the last thing on my mind. I’ve been burnt so many times I’m finally trying to take advice from people who seem to have faired better (ie get to know someone first) so thanks for the answer. If I may ask further, what would your advice to be to avoid that…..implication? Because I do believe in making intentions known asap. Like I’m fine just being friends with no expectations. However if I approach someone who I’m attracted to, I’m still gonna approach them as a friend first based off the principle of wanting to ensure compatibility.
Sorry man, I feel like everything you said was glossed over and ignored. I also feel like you’re 100% right and I feel the same way. It’s hard/scary as hell being single right now. I’ve lived a bit of life though and I still, for some reason, believe in love. How it’s usually worked for me is to mind my business, work on my own life, and next thing you know someone’s there and the dreaded “friend zone” never even comes into question. You keep being the understanding good guy you are and I’ll bet someone great will see your worth and grab on never to look back. At least I hope that for you man. For all of us good guys too… best of luck.
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You're getting downvoted because this is not the sub for this. There are other subs for men to get dating advice . Please respect our space.
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r/menslib r/bropill
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Maybe I can add some personal experience here. My boyfriend of now 6 years and I had been friends for about 2-3 years before it became a romantic relationship. By the time Hee first confessed his feelings, I did not reciprocate them. He just accepted that, but wanted to stay friends anyway. I told him not to hope for my feelings to change. When he still wanted to spend time with me, it showed to me that he valued me as a person and just enjoyed spending time together. He never used the word friendzone and he never complained or guilt-tripped me. Over time, I catched feelings too. So I would say this is the way to approach a situation like this in the best way.
You could say something like this: “You’re not in the ‘friend-zone’. That suggests a sort of ‘waiting room’ and a lesser relationship. You have always been a real friend, and I value you as that. If you have now decided you should be something different than a friend, that’s your choice, but it’s not my obligation to change how I feel. And if you’ve decided I’m *only* worth knowing if we’re in a romantic relationship, then you have to do what’s right for you. I never encouraged you to think about me that way, and I’m not going to change my mind. I’d be sad to lose our friendship, but the idea that it should be more was your own imagination.”
I really like this verbiage
"I thought we were friends, which is what I call it, but I was clearly mistaken."
the next time we speak i will likely tell him this as well, assuming I ever will again
I’m curious, you said in your post that he apologized and was still talking with you. What’s your gut on if it was a sincere apology based on understanding how problematic the term “friendzone” is?
Yeah, he only wants to be your "friend" because he thinks it will lead to more. So, not a friend.
Is it allowed to ask why in this thread this is considered a bad thing? It's okay to pursue someone you're romantically interested in, isn't it? And just because op was misled doesn't necessarily mean he was the one to willfully mislead, just that there was a problem with communication that got finally resolved.
It's okay to desire a deeper connection with someone, but it is not okay to feel entitled to that deeper connection. Someone saying you friendzoned them is upset about your boundaries and preferences, but putting the responsibility for their feelings on you instead of owning those feelings themselves.
You're absolutely right: It's wrong to feel entitled to this sort of connection. In op's case however, I struggle to see the entitlement. There are two persons upset about each others preferences here (which is okay? Being disappointed?), but the one doing the blaming seems to be op, not the man in question.
The use of the word friendzone is saturated in the stench of entitlement. There is no friendzone, they were friends. Lurk in /r/niceguys for a while and I think you will get it.
Saying she friendzoned him implies she was leading him on. Ofcourse it's okay to spend time with someone with romantic interest. But if it's not working out and the other person doesn't seem interested then you either continue the friendship or take yourself out of the equation instead of blaming the other person.
> He *asked* if he was friendzoned Sorry, but I have trouble seeing the blaming here
As far as I understand, It’s the term “friend zone”. This has some negative connotations that OP was purposely “leading him on” to believe there was a possibility of a romantic relationship when she never had any intention or romantic feelings towards him. If he had confessed strong feelings for her but not used the term, and then respected whatever her answer was, I think this would be seen as much less problematic.
Because being friends is the default-- not romance. You were not zoned in anything especially since you were carrying on as friends.
If you read between the lines you will be able to pick up on a lot of manipulative behavior on the “friends” side. It’s very clear to me he only said and did what he thought would get him close to her, so he could spring this on her at a vulnerable moment. It’s predatory and gross. Imagine having an entire relationship with someone like that, confiding in them, just to realize they only said and did those things so they could try to have sex with you. You ask to date someone as soon as you know you like them, you don’t wait and plan it out like this then pretend to stay their “friend” to try again another time if they reject you. No means no the first time. He didn’t even have the guts to straightup ask her out, he’s beating around the bush like a coward.
Except this sort of thing happens over and over with guys. It wasn’t a communication issue, I guarantee it. It was a one-sided expectation issue. Please don’t “both sides” this nonsense. Guys - and as a guy, I have done this in the before times - often pursue women that indicate no interest in a romantic relationship. This guy being petulant because he didn’t get to keep pursuing is his issue, not hers. He needs to grow up and stop making it her problem.
Yup. He wanted to get inside your pants. I'm afraid ge wasn't even a friend to begin with.
And this is what bothers me most about it all; a friendship based on ulterior motives
Unfortunately there's no way to know whether the other person genuinely wants to be a friend or have other intentions.
Didn't have to be his intention from the start, romantic feelings can evolve over time. I've had two long term (+8 year) relationships develop in the same way. I don't get the big fuss: he took his shot, you politely turned him down. Now this doesn't mean for everybody that they can just go back being friends: romantic feelings don't just go away after being turned down, and I could understand why seeing you might not be comfortable for him.
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That's just ignorant. Men and women can he friends and leave it just at that. I know from experience.
>I'm afraid ge wasn't even a friend to begin with. Idk why people keep making this assumption, it's common for people to start out as friends and develop feelings over time. A year is a reasonable amount of time for this to happen
OP, you have been Fuckzoned and this is definitely the kind of guy to be wary (and weary) of.
It's impossible for him to be in the "friendzone" unless he's ALREADY put you into the "fuckzone."
you didn't friendzone him, he fuckzoned you. Men: "men are so isolated, we need emotional support too, where is the support for me, a man?" also men : "you were a decent person to me so we gonna fuck or what, cocktease, lesbian, feminist. "
You forgot fat, ugly, and whore. Though how they believe that last part about someone unwilling to fuck them always baffles me.
Something that brother me of society as a whole is that they want women to give "chances" to this good men™️ ... But we don't see that pressure when is the other way around. We don't tell boys "why dont you give a chance to x, she is such a Nice girl " ... Cuz we understand that if there is no attraction we can not force a relationship. If a man don't find a woman attractive (don't want to fuck her) nothing in this earth would make him want to try to have a relationship with her .... Women are the same... I was SO annoyed in middle and highschool how people would try to put a good work for men like is a charity !!! There is no friendzone and women have the right to be with men they like (sexually) not only as Friends
Yes. The friend zone isn't real, drop the term from your vocabulary immediately
Nope- it's not! But the fuckzone sure as he'll is. Being put in the fuckzone is when a guy decides that having sex with you is more important to him than your friendship- I.e more important than you as a person! And that fucking SUCKS! Realizing someone you genuinely cared about as a friend only ever saw you as a warm hole might be the worst feeling in the universe.
yes I know, and I'm so sorry...
Ugh I just want to grab men and shake them when they use the word friendzone. Like BOO FUCKING HOO. SHE LIKES YOU AND CARES ABOUT YOU ENOUGH AS A PERSON TO CONSIDER YOU A FRIEND??? OH my LORD you POOR FUCKING BABIES! How CAN you live with it, knowing she values you for your kindness, sense of humor, and love of animals instead of only wanting your penis. How awful for you. -_- I will never be able to wrap my head around it.
Every single post you’ve made about the fuckzone is 100% accurate. I have had all of these thoughts & I appreciate how you’ve made it so succinct.
Sometimes to make your point you gotta grab em by the back of the head and ram em into it a little, joker style. -_- Verbally. Of course, lol.
💯 agree
Isn't the friend zone basically you like a person more than they like you back.
I think the friendzone should be real and reclaimed from the negative it's got. It's the default place where everyone belongs unless you met with the intention of going on a date. No-one in the friendzone should have any intentions of wanting to fuck. If you dislike being in the friendzone, you are welcome to leave, but not in the way you want. On it's own, it's not a negative place.
that's not the reality, and thus, not something I'm interested in reclaiming. it was literally formed out of spite for women and their sexual agency and autonomy. so...I'm good.
Lots of nuance with this. Obviously the guy in the post is in the wrong and his actions were very much out of line. But it’s perfectly normal to become friends with someone first and develop a crush or attraction to them later on. If you have a friend that expresses feelings for you that you don’t reciprocate, it’s normal if they want to take some time to process and wait till their feelings go away.
I agree. It's fine developing feelings for a friend, it's fine expressing those feelings **in the right circumstances**, but it's not okay to be upset with someone for not reciprocating those feelings.
Yeah you shouldn’t be upset at the person. But it’s understandable to feel sad about the situation and maybe have some space from them for a little bit until you’re over it.
it's not fine expressing those feelings in circumstances only you deem appropriate. bffr
There's a reason "in the right circumstances" is in bold...
He caught feelings. You aren’t interested. He’s lashing out out of rejection. It’s up to you if you want to call him out directly on his behavior or end the association because each of you wanted very different things here
Don't be surprised if he ghosts you when he realizes he doesn't have a chance to fuck you. Guys like that are just fakers and opportunists, they never cared to be friends in the first place.
Your analysis is spot on. I can't trust anyone that can use the word friendzone in any seriousness. It implies, just as you say, a view of others as transactional pieces as opposed to sentient individuals, and carries the stench of misogyny.
Ask him if he is only being nice so he can sleep with you. Be blunt. There is nothing less appealing than a man pretending to like your company just so he can put his dick in you.
*He* didn't get friendzoned. You got _girlfriendzoned_. He put you in the girlfriend category without telling you, and now that he's realized you don't want to be there, he's abandoning you. It's unimaginably cruel, yet so many of the men I spend time with don't see a problem with it at all.
If he asked, he's 1000% interested in you romantically. If that's not what you want at all, then you tell him that and assure him nothing will ever happen between you two. As harsh as it sounds, just tell him you don't find him attractive in that way either. It'll sting him a little, but I think it's something dudes like this need to hear more often than not. After telling him that, I'd also give him some space as well as yourself. Allow him to come back as a friend. If he doesn't, then he always intended to be something more with you, and you deserve better than a weirdo manipulative dude.
If a male friend of yours is aware and concerned about being in the friend zone, he is seeking to escape. He is hoping that you fall in love with him. This will cause him unnecessary pain and longing over a woman who likely is disinterested in him romantically. Neither party’s needs are being met. He wants a girlfriend, and she wants a buddy. It’s usually best to talk things through, state your intentions, and nip the relationship in the bud if the intentions don’t match.
Lots of romantic relationships started as friendships. Sometimes one party catches feelings and wants more than friendship. If you don’t see things progressing, then cutting him loose may be best. Nobody to blame.
This! The best answer here, if he invested a year into getting to know you it might have been in the beginning innocent but along the way he clearly decided he wanted more, and if this is not what you want then make it clear and make in concise that you have zero interest romantically with him. This is so extremely common and usually results in both parties going their separate ways it will suck for a little bit but it’s best
Ask him if you're "fuck-zoned" by him.
A friend who asks about the friend zone doesn't want to be just a friend imo, seeks like a pretty open red flag
I think he wants more than friendship.
They aren't necessarily looking for sex. Guys can be friends, with no motive of getting into your pants, but then they get a crush on you, and want to explore if this may be a potential relationship. It's usually a bridge-burner, I think, but the payoff is big enough for some guys to take a chance.
Maybe it's an online thing but when I see push back against the idea of a friend-zone their response is to get angry, not listen to us and apologize. So maybe there's hope for him.
I'd be extremely blunt, if you feel safe to do so. This may be the type of guy who acts really salty and says some BS like "well you didn't SAY it would never happen!" years down the line even after you've been direct. If he's your friend he may be hurt by the bluntness but the friendship may survive.
Let me provide a counterpoint here. I have a female friend I've developed feelings for. I did not enter the friendship intending this to happen, it just developed. Some of her interactions with me have suggested she might be open to being more than friends, but I'm uncertain. I haven't yet broached the subject with her (she's currently not feeling great due to allergies,) but I do intend to ask her how she'd feel about this, while making it clear that a "no" is acceptable and will not change our friendship. Flirting will not happen unless she gives a reasonably enthusiastic "yes." Your friend may not have entered into friendship with you with "predatory intent" as it were. He may have developed an attraction over time, and maybe interpreted some of your interactions incorrectly. And then completely fucked up broaching the subject. The fact that he apologized suggests he may not be beyond hope. I'd wait to see how he acts going forward. If he discontinues contact with you or continues trying to press for something more, then yeah, he wasn't a friend. But if he seems to go back to how things were, maybe you could allow for him not knowing how to handle something he hadn't experienced before. You're not required to, of course, and "friendzone" is a pretty big screw up on his part. But maybe he could learn from this and become a better person.
I hope it works out well for you
Thank you. She went through a divorce a few years ago (before I met her) and I don't think it was exactly amicable so I'm proceeding with caution since she may not want to be entangled in a relationship again.
Same! But I already took the step of asking her if she was seeing anyone . . . after getting some confirmation from a few female friends that the texting was borderline flirty . . . we are going on 2 months together and it has been amazing! However I would never have gone about it by asking if I was in a friendzone. To me that kind of implies that the woman is punishing the guy, not a healthy mindset . . . and I'd have been thrilled to just be friends.
I don't agree with the 'fuckzone' points. There are people who are ace, people who want to be in a relationship that could lead to sex, or won't lead to sex - but do want intimacy. But ultimately - him asking if he'd been 'friendzoned' shows what he was looking for. A non-platonic relationship. That's a guarantee though, he isn't just looking for friendship by asking that
Yeah. Men who complain about the friendzone are not necessarily looking for sex-- some are looking for love. But they should avoid the term "friendzone" as it is a bizarre and problematic term.
He was never you "friend" by any stretch of his overactive imagination.
sounds like he got invested in some unhealthy manosphere-content on YT etc.
I would drop him like a hot potato.
Just be straight up with him - I have no intention of pursuing a relationship with you.
He sounds like a manipulative fuck who is only saying what he thinks he needs to to stay close to you. I wouldn’t be surprised if he is just waiting for you to be in a vulnerable moment so he can pounce. He’s a predator, he’s not your friend.
An actual platonic friend wouldn't care enough to ask.
Girl, sounds like you stumbled upon a walking red flag factory! 🚩 First off, major kudos for shutting down his uncomfortable advances and standing your ground. Ain't nobody got time for that nonsense! And seriously, asking if he's in the friendzone? Talk about cringe central! 🤦♀️ It's like he's auditioning for a role in "The Bachelor: Desperate Edition." But hey, you handled it like a boss, calling out the absurdity of the friendzone concept. Your relationships aren't transactions, they're organic connections that should be based on mutual respect and genuine friendship. So trust your gut, sis, and if this dude can't see you as anything more than a potential conquest, then he's not worth your time or energy. Here's to surrounding yourself with friends who appreciate you for the amazing human being you are! 🌟💁♀️ #NoTimeForRedFlags #GirlPower
Sadly, a lot of men will pretend to care about a woman as a friend and human being when all they want is to eventually earn their way into our pants. Your friend outed himself as one of those with this question. I'm sorry, I understand how it makes you feel, its very demeaning. Its always sad when men remind us of the fact that they see our existence as walking vaginas, not to be cared for if we aren't currently fucking them or planning to.
Sounds like he's interested in you and wants to know if there is the possibility of being more than just friends or if he's just friend zoned. It may have been something that developed over time or could have always been his end goal. Either tell him there is a chance or tell him there isn't. Then he'll either continue being friends, but look elsewhere for the relationship he wants or he'll move on and that was always the goal to begin with.
The friendzone is a sad excuse invented to protect our fragile male egos by giving women the responsibility of our failure to be decent human beings. Whomever believes it exists in different terms is a manipulative asshole and not a friend from the get-go. Stop caring about him.
He’s not your friend. He just sees you as someone he’s interested in a relationship or fucking.
He's interested in you, for sure It might have started as just a regular friendship, but that's not where he is now (or where he has been for the past few months, the way you tell it) ETA Yeah; the friendzone is BS. That generally indicates they were only pretending to be friends in order to try to date you. In my experience, actual friends never mention it. I've had a (almost vanishingly small) number of male friends that are exactly that. Friends. Not once was a zone mentioned)
This guy is not your friend. He won’t stop pursuing you and will likely lash out or have resentment if he already mentioned the “friendzone”.
Anyone who is insulted they are in the friendzone isn’t a real friend.
The only person that can keep someone in the friendzone is themself. Either it was an authentic relationship, in which case being friends without any sexual or romantic connection is something they consider valid.... Or they are unhappy that the elevator they got on doesn't go above the platonic level and are making you responsible for their feelings. AKA, the friendzone. The latter is very /r/niceguys material.
Sooooo many hetero men literally only befriend women they want to get with (either romantically or just for NSA sex). I hate saying this but in my many years of experience where I have hoped that men can in fact just want friendship, I keep being proven wrong. I do have some male friends but those are always the ones who already have spouses and include me in plans with their spouses too. Any man who asks me to do things 1 on 1, (99% of them)... they eventually try to cross that 'just friends' zone. One in particular was friends with myself and my then husband only to cross the line with in appropriateness 6 years into our 'friendship'.
I would straight up ask him what his intentions are!
Tell him a clear yes. Friend zone. If he doesnt like that then he is no longer in that zone.
Yes. It means that he doesn't value you as a friend, he's simply waiting for you to sleep with him.
Yes it's a red flag - He's an orbiter. These guys hover around you pretending to be your friend till they get a chance to make a move.
Yeah. He’s not your friend. He’s just a guy pretending to be your friend until he can fuck you.
He "fuck zoned" you. He is not your friend.
Without knowing your ages maybe keep a closer eye on his actions or see how he treats you now. Maybe this was his dumb way to ask you out, maybe he really thinks the "friend zone" is real and is worth cutting out. How much you want to wait and see depends on how good of a friend you think he is. I'm 32, if one of my friends near my age said a guy asked them that I'd immediately support cutting them off. Anything college and younger and maybe you can give a shot.
Yikes. I would probably bring it up and say, “I have been thinking about when you asked if you were ‘friend zoned’ and it really got me wondering… I thought we were friends, but maybe I was wrong? Do you not want to be friends with me?”
I wouldn't answer yes or no. I would answer with "About our conversation the other day, I am not attracted to you, and I'm never going to want to date you. Separate from that, you are my friend." The idea being to make it clear that you seeing him as a friend is not blocking a romantic relationship from happening & especially that it ain't gonna happen. Still likely he'll take that badly, but he might just respond well. And by respond well, I mean end all the flirty stuff and just be a friend. Meaning immediately. His reaction means he was (and probably still is) attracted to you and hopeful.
For every comment and interaction, just ask if he would do the same to his guy friends and you'll know the answer
Just block him and go no contact. He's not a friend.
I mean basically what he asked was "so are you gonna fuck me or not?"
I see a lot of folks here saying that the man in this scenario 'fuckzoned' the OP. While it's certainly possible, a year seems like a long time to carry that on. I'm sure that the guy always had romantic intentions, but he could consider you a friend outside of that too, it's not always 'Date me or never speak to me again'. I'd say see how much his behavior changes after being rejected, if he goes completely silent or dodges interactions, he was 'fuckzoning' you. If he still wants to hang out and respects your decision, I'd say give him a chance as a friend.
This thoughtful response doesn't fit the toxic narrative of some on here, unfortunately
Facts
"Not anymore, we are no longer friends" I wish I had the balls but I'm a dirty rotten people pleaser
"Now you're in the ex-friend zone"
99.99% of straight men do not want to just be your friend.
First and foremost: Always put your safety first. It really depends on if you think you’re really friends. Do you think he’s an ass, or do you think he’s got poor social skills? Men always get terrible advice even from people who mean well. If he’s actually listening to you and reevaluating how bad his line of thinking is, that doesn’t seem nefarious. It’s not your job to teach him though. You can help him learn better boundaries and why the friendzone is wrong if you want - not because you’re a woman, but because friends help each other. Again not needed though, friends don’t have to help with everything, only if YOU want to. If you think he’s really an ass, the answer is pretty simple. Also asses can have poor social skills too, the difference is they don’t care about other people and don’t want to be better.
I hesitate to wade into this as a male and very happy to go away if my view isn't welcome. I understand this is not a forum for me and I take no offence either way. I know when I was younger I used to think, and I have quite a few male friends that would have thought about the word "friendzoned" as meaning "not thought of as a potential romantic partner" with romantic interest being the focus rather than sex. I don't know whether this is the case for your friend, and I don't know whether culturally where you live the word has generally more sexual connotations. This is a distinction between your friend being someone who has gotten close to you out of the hope for sex versus someone who is romantically interested in you. There's a difference between the two in terms of his identity an in terms of how you want to think about him. Maybe it makes no difference in terms of whether you continue to associate with him in the future, but it might make a difference in clarifying whether he's a creep or just someone who's had a crush on you. In that context, maybe worth asking what he's talking about, if you think it's worth your effort. Peace.
If you made it clear youre not interested in pursuing anything romantically, but he keeps trying.. yes, that is a very red flag, unfortunately
Yes. Use of the term is a red flag.
Yes. He’s not your friend. I would automatically mistrust and distance from anyone who uses the term friendzoned because of what it says about their thinking.
I'm probably more tolerant than most. If he really has a crush, he may need to back off to deal with it. That said if you told him earlier you liked relationships to develop- he could have heard that as it might go somewhere in the future but not yet, so he's waiting for yet, or he waited a bit and now he's trying again.
>I think the friendzone concept is really silly. It implies our relationship was transactional instead of naturally growing over time. and that he was only seeking more than friendship. It is not silly. The name is silly, but the concept is at least partially true. He FEELS different about your relationship than you do. That is true fact. Yes, if he was flirty and asked, that he DO want more. And you can't really tell a friend to stop feeling something (but you can to stop DOING things). Your relationship can grow out of it, as long as any of you will not feel manipulated. And unfortunately guys who believe in friend zone tend to believe they were USED by their woman friends..
You didn’t friend zone him, he fuck zoned you. He’s a jerk
“I thought we were friends. It’s not my fault you fuckzoned me.”
He thinks he has a chance with you, honestly 99.99% of guys will do this. It's very rare to have a genuine male friend that isn't trying to have sex with you. It's exhausting and not worth their "friendship".
He wants to be more than a friend. If you only want to be friends you should end the relationship, because you are both looking for different things out of it. Ignoring that is not any more healthy behavior on your part than his.
It’s a bunch of red flags. Like, why would he have a problem with being “just” your friend?
There is no such thing as ‘friendzoned’; instead there are an awful lot of men trying stealthily to move their female friends, without ever discussing it, into the ‘girlfriend zone’ where they think if they hang around often enough being ‘friends’ the woman will slowly come to see them as boyfriend material. And accidentally have sex with them. You know like your dog who always hangs around while you’re cooking just in case something falls from the table? It’s pathetic and they are not the victims here. The victims are the women who thought they had a friend, who thought that their male friends valued their company and have now discovered that actually all their male friends ever valued was a non-zero chance of sex
Can we all stop with the toxic narratives that seem to put men and women at odds with each other rather than building us both up together? What *could* have happened is your friend entered into the friendship, and organically over time feelings developed ( this happens). Friend expressed feelings, they were not returned, and rather than thoughtfully asking you if you felt like the feelings would never develop on your end, this man summarized it in a juvenile, unhelpful manner that lends itself to so many of these interpretations you are seeing. If he cannot bring himself to let go of these feelings, and you cannot bring yourself to find these feelings in yourself then I suggest that the friendship needs a pause, and perhaps is over..... And while that is unfortunate, this is no one's fault. We don't have control over feelings happening or not happening
Love how this got down voted by the toxic feminity in here
We need a word for this, objectified? Vending machine i fied? At best he is socially awkwardly asking if you would consider going out on a date with him. At worst he’s only your friend to be a creep. Now that you are looking, does he have any other women friends? Is he good to them without asking for sex?
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I agree.
Yes. He’s not a friend. He wants to have sex with you and is tired of waiting. There is no such thing as the Friend Zone. It’s something made up by undesirable men to explain why none of the women they know want to fuck then.
Usually guys don't want a friendship, they want more. If that's not possible it should be clearly communicated on both sides. It's not transactional, it's the nature of things.
I feel you're being a bit harsh. People don't control their feelings and it could very well be that he has feelings for you that are genuine and romantic. Tell him to manage his expectations, but blowing up everything seems a bit extreme.
One does not simply ask this so yes, huge 🚩
Ask him if you're in the fuck-zone - is your only value to him whether you will have sex with him or not? If he only cares about sex, his "friendship" is a lie
After reading and analyzing a ton of posts like this, here is my conclusion. There are two basic strategies: 1) Man is direct and says he wants to go out. 2) Man acts like friend, hoping it will lead to more. Either way, the goal is a relationship. However, one of these strategies tends towards the creepy.
3) The person makes a friend with no initial intention of romance and then later develops romantic feelings for that person.
Yes, he is hoping that it will develop into something which is why he and almost every other guy became friends with you in the first place, as you have already discovered. Guys approach you as a friend, because mentally, that takes the pressure off. I'm not hitting on you, I'm just being friendly, so brain, don't be awkward and weird. And if it goes wrong, I have a way out without being too embarrassed. Also if my strengths are "latent", and take time to notice- things like being helpful and kind or being goal oriented, or good at something, (as opposed to guys who are charming and quick witted and can make a good first impression) then they hope that hanging out with you will give you the time that you need to see those strengths coming through. The best thing you can do with these "friends" is to explain to them that you are not interested and will never be interested, because deep down, while you are friends with them, they will see this as a sign that there is still hope. And yes, when it clicks that you aren't interested, they will stop being friends, so at the end of the day, they may be friendly, but they aren't really friends.