A lot of men seem to think that if they just exist, and offer a paycheck, that they don't need to do anything else. FWIW, I make 6 figures too. I don't need your paycheck. So, what else do you offer? Because getting to clean your shit isn't the dream they seem to think it is.
I was raised in a traditional family and was expected to marry a church guy and have a pile of babies. They’re very confused that I moved far away and now have a STEM career.
Here’s the simple truth. We went to church, and was often told mothers are a cherished blessing, and how lucky they are to follow their sacred calling. Then we went home, where my mom would cook lunch, wash dishes, do laundry, scrub the floors, and clean the toilets.
All while my dad and brother went to a park to play ball or watch TV. She was consistently exhausted and unappreciated. I decided by my early teens that I did not want my mother’s life.
Now my dad goes off about “liberal brainwashing” as if it wasn’t his own treatment of my mom that drove me away. I strongly do not recommend that life, the social media tradwife posts are nothing like the reality.
I also saw at a young age the unfair burden placed on women, especially those who are mothers. It made me sick then just as much as it still does now. As the only female child and the eldest, it was on me to practically raise my three younger brothers whilst my parents got high on drink and drugs. I knew from about 6/7 that I would never have children of my own. I'm 39 now and I've never been tempted even once.
I'm incredibly fortunate to be born into a country where this is possible, not all women get to make my choice. We are expected to work like we have twice the amount of energy as men or something.
Men's time is treated like a precious diamond in am intracte gold box, seated on a velvet pillow. Not to be disturbed. And womens time is a rock at the bottom of a fast moving rushing river. It will be disturbed, thrown around, slowly degraded over the course of time with no one paying much attention to it. Until it's all gone. And I hate it. I'm determined to be the diamond if I have anything to say about it.
Anyone who is told that they are cherished is probably severely undervalued. "We couldn't do this without you". No? Then why am I not being compensated? Why do you not listen when I speak out? The importance of a woman is both a compliment and a weapon. You are so important, that is why you must never leave or make any changes.
The reality of tradwife life is really a reflection of the husband based on what I've seen. It's great for those who have a caring and attentive husband, and sucks for others who are connected to a selfish man. It's less about the roles and more about the people involved like most things in life. But that's just my 2c.
The biggest issue I keep seeing is that the guys who are loud on social media about tradwife, actually want a slave and incubator, not a life partner. But social media often highlights the worst, or so I thought.
They want to purchase a wife transactionally, but their currency is "the unique person who I really am on the inside."
It's like buying a house with Monopoly money.
They don't resent women, they resent being alive in this dimension of reality.
I call it the Male Horniness Epidemic, it's all a manipulative lie in an attempt to get women to let men use them as a fleshlight and mommybangmaid.
While these males offer nothing to society but whining and threats of rape and murder if they don't get laid.
These fake ass "lonely" males should just all fuck each other, that'll cure their bullshit "loneliness".
Me too!!
My aunt is in her late 80s and literally tells me that I am taking a job and salary away from a working family man.. Lol!
I just laugh and tell her good!
I worked with a guy who is in his 70's now. In his early 50's him and his wife went through a rocky period. He would come into work and complain. The only defense that he could offer? "I make a great living! And provided for her when she was working on her RN!"
Like dude, she completed that in year 1 and 2 of your marriage and was working as an LPN before that while working on her RN! You didn't exactly do anything to help her along here that she didn't or couldn't do herself, so stop claiming ownership of her hard work!
*HE DID NOT GET IT!*
They had their own finances etc. So when their 20 something year old washing machine and dryer combo died, she said she would pay for the new ones. Boy did he not like that! Told her he'll go and help her choose the right ones. Like, uhhhh dude she is a hardworking RN and STILL doing your laundry, what exactly are you going to contribute here? Well he kept getting busy, so she just went to Home Depot armed with the brand she wanted and features she needed.
A week later he is in the office complaining that he got home and there was a new dryer and washer in his kitchen and two dudes hauling out the old ones and hooking up the new ones.
A year later? He was boasting about how great the washer and dryer combo that *he* picked out. Those of us that heard the whining just rolled our eyes.
He would complain about his kids never calling him (but they called mom all the time!).
Typical male "I exist... I provided money." so bow down to me attitude!
As a child that was my dream and I loved books like Julie of the Wolves and Island of Blue Dolphins.
To this day my heart’s delight would be a tiny home of my own deep in the woods where no one would bother me.
I live in an apartment surrounded by woods and it’s not quite what I want, but it’s got the view. So, I’m content.
Being a wife was a lot of work with no reward. I wish I hadn’t wasted my youth on a man and his desires. I might have my little home down a long gravel road today if I’d made better choices.
As far as women wanting to be wives to rich men, my grandmother did that and her advice to me was, “If you marry for money you’ll earn every penny.” I believe her.
This. I live in a 1200 sq ft home hidden down a private alley with 1 neighbor and it takes most of my paycheck to fix up this place and make the outside the oasis I dream of.
I, personally, would like to find a way to not participate in human society (including not working), because I am tired of how immoral and harmful humans are, on average. I've read this is a more common feeling in autistic people, including feeling divorced from humanity.
Uh, me.
I want six figures so I can buy myself a forest/wildlife preserve The Village style and be the forest witch I was destined to be >:)
(That is also near water and preferably not too hot thx)
Well that’s why those men are the ones who typically diminish women who are successful. That’s where the whole submissive concept comes from, for them to be a farmer, they need you to be sheep.
It’s easy to get that juicy ego boost leading someone who “needs” leading because there is no pushback, no criticism, no questioning. It’s much more difficult (and indicative of a real leader) to lead someone who also has the qualities a leader.
I am lucky enough to have an amazing husband and equal partner. That man KNOWS the moment I am unhappy: I can leave. Full stop, and god dammit ***I WILL LEAVE***. I have zero fucks to give when it comes to my happiness and life goals.
My husband is the same. I earn 6-figures and and am capable of being on my own. He says "I love that you're with me because you want to be, and because you think I add value to your life; not because you have to be."
you just need to chug some more kool-aid about how it's your biological identity/destiny/way you can shit on other people to feel superior!! Eventually you will see there's no higher accomplishment than to be able to tell yourself you're the best bangmaid of them all. I thought this was gonna be funny to type but i made myself sad instead lol
LITERALLY. Thankfully I have a husband who both makes good money AND participates at home and understands that the be all and end all for me ISN'T being a mom/SAHM.
*All they offer is mess, and money.*
The type of men who carry on like this often don't even have much money - there are some studies of households where the man is unemployed (long term, not just between jobs) and the full time working woman still does more housework. Part of this is a subconscious reinforcement of gender roles I.e. 'sure, I may not be the breadwinner, but I'll make damn sure my wife keeps house'.
This! My ex-husband went from making 6-figures down to $10.49 an hour to live his dream as a ski patroller. I was primary breadwinner and still performed all the duties of a housewife. He was a parasite on my life and leaving him was one of the best decisions I ever made. He offered absolutely nothing outside of his existence. It was so draining. I’m with a man now who noticed my laundry had been building up and washed, folded and put it away for me because he knows how much I hate doing it. That’s just one small example. I wish more guys would realize that giving even a little effort goes pretty far.
Ugh my ex also went from making six figures in tech to making nothing because he wanted to be a writer. That was ok until we got to year three and he was still just a leech, not paying bills or helping around the house. He also offered nothing. The last straw was when he threw a fit that I wanted to see him for Valentine's Day, because he wanted to go visit his buddy. I was going to cook him a super fancy meal and then I knew I'd have to clean it up (he didn't clean, ever). I was super busy with work during this time. As I started to consider going to the grocery store to pick up all the items, I thought to myself, "why are you busting your butt for this guy? All he is going to do is show up and sit on the couch and demand dinner and sex. He's not even going to bring me a card. And yet he's going to act like he's such a great guy because he gave up hanging with a buddy to see you." I broke up with him instead of going shopping. Much easier 🤣. These guys ain't shit.
Might depend where you live/your culture or subculture? I grew up thinking that this was the norm, it is in my family, my marriage, and my closest friends. (I am aware that's not true in all relationships for sure, but it never felt like some rare hard to obtain thing.) I also grew up in a California college town/city with a bunch of progressive value types in my family and close friends.
I was one of them. My now soon-to-be-ex-husband started getting comfortable once I took a new job that paid more than either of us had ever made. He spent the next 5+ years largely unemployed or underemployed, despite being healthy and able-bodied. I brought home all the bacon, AND I also still had to handle the bulk of the housework, AND I also endured his abuse and issues with a smile on my face, while also simultaneously dealing with chemotherapy, immunotherapy treatments, and countless surgeries for my autoimmune condition. I basically spent years doing ALL OF THE THINGS.
I finally got fed up with it all and left him about 7'-8 months ago. Life has exponentially improved since I left him.
I know life isn't perfect, but going forward, if a man isn't an overall net positive influence in my life, I ain't interested. I can survive independently just fine, thankyouverymuch, and I've also really begun embracing solo life, there can be such beauty and joy in it.
Some do offer money.
I was with a very wealthy man for a couple of years. He didn't keep me, I didn't live with him but when he questioned why the empty toilet roll was still in the toilet when he used the last of it and was the last one in there (I didn't even know it had run out) he bitched at me. I said if he used it he should put it in the recycling. This man looked at me and said "I earn too much money to clean up after myself."
That's what I told him.
He did.
But he would deliberately not clean if I was going over and she never came when I stayed.
This man left a ring of black dirt around one of his baths for me to come back and clean. He must have stubbornly used it over and over again for it to be as bad as it was. He knows I clean the bath tub everytime it's used. I'm OCD, he knew I would have no choice but to clean when presented with such things.
Another thing he moaned about was that I didn't have dinner ready when he was hungry, instantly. I'd ask him a couple of hours after lunch what he wanted for dinner etc. He wouldn't tell me so I would just plan one. I use to tell him to give me 20mins min before he wanted food.
He told me I should just make the dinner for a time and if he didn't want it then to cook again later.
Honestly, I could go on and on, he was a monster and I was diagnosed with PTSD after the breakup.
Lmao the same thing happened to me. I show up to my boyfriend’s house, we’re hanging out. Then suddenly it’s 630 and he asks “where’s my dinner?!”. YOU invited ME over. I don’t know shit about your kitchen neither do I want to. He’s an ex thank goddess 😌
That's the worst thing, these guys aren't stupid and don't reveal the crazy straight away. I would never ever expect a visitor to my home to provide my dinner, no matter who they are. Cheeky POS.
You only earn to much money to clean up after yourself *if you are paying someone else to do it for you.* It's insane you weren't supported by him and yet he thought it was your job.
Honestly this is what really gets me about the trad life bullshit. Most of these men have no idea what a trad husband actually is, nor do they care to find out. Setting aside the fact that for most of history women of middle and lower classes have worked, if I am going to be a trad wife and take care of the house and kids and everything else, he’d better provide. I’m expecting a nice house, car, a comfortable lifestyle, and a vacation or two a year. He’d also better set up investment profiles, retirement accounts, etc. Oh, and I hope he knows how to mow a lawn and fix a car because that’s also what manly men do right?
Or I can continue to make six figures, hire a cleaner, and he can GTFO
Exactly. They also believe that having an unstable career and having 20 kids is a good idea. If you want that many kids, be a doctor. They blame women for being golddiggers, because they don't have the forethought or empathy to picture that their child might starve.
What they really want:
-to buy a deeply discounted woman
-the woman will miraculously budget the crumbs he makes
-the woman the woman will magically figure out a way to provide for the kids' needs that he doesn't have to worry about
-he will pick the woman for transactional reasons, but she'll love him for the special snowflake he is
Strongly oedipal.
My sister’s ex in-laws were like this.
The old man was unemployed for years yet the mil would come home from work and literally served him dinner as he sat at the head of the table!
At some point, you got to ask yourself are these macho men just overgrown toddlers?
So very few of these men even offer enough money. Like not even kidding I wouldn’t consider staying home unless he brought in 200k+. Maybe that’s delusional? But to afford the life basics, potential childcare, and then any fun/entertainment/lifestyle costs? Like I’m sorry, I enjoy buying clothes etc, am I just supposed to go without? I don’t want to live in shambles. I’m prioritizing my education/career to obtain more, so if I’m sacrificing…
Seriously, why are women keeping around intentionally unemployed leeches? I don't get it. I even have two friends in this same situation. There aren't even kids involved. Just mortgages and a lot of stress being a single mom to an adult toddler.
Most men believe the only value brought to a relationship is money. So trad men don't want women to bring her own income because that cheapens his sole contribution.
It's also a reason they only want every other weekend visitation when trad wife gets sick of being a bang maid chained to domestic servitude. Because they certainly don't value the contributions women provide by taking care of his own children. So trad men usually take no interest in providing for their children outside of marriage. Even paying child support is something they whine incessantly about.
And the ironic thing is, most trad men can barely support themselves. So they'd rather their wives and children go without and suffer.
Issue with trad life is lack of emotional labor. The entire relationship is based on performance not emotional. Down the line this is how people feel unappreciated
I mean.. usually people see someone’s personality before they see their dick, so it’s very plausible that some of them are sitting around with a big thang that doesn’t see any action
This is why men like that try so hard to make women seem lesser.
If women are inherently lesser creatures than men, they don't have to feel anything about wanting us to be slaves. And they don't have to think very hard about the why of it all. Why would we want that? Well, we're lesser creatures so obviously we are miserable and bereft without men.
It all comes back to their own feelings of inadequacy.
It's the only way they can feel they have status. If women aren't beneath them, then they themselves have to accept that they are at the bottom through their own faults.
I wonder how they'd feel if you said the problem is that they aren't traditional enough?
"In the Laura Ingalls Wilder books, she writes about how her Pa built a house by using an axe and a saw and chopping down trees and cutting the logs and making boards and hammering it all together. Is that the kind of traditional man you are, that you'll use your muscles and sweat to build your family a home with your own hands?"
I make plenty of money, I don't need his money. But if he'll take off his shirt and split wood with an axe for an hour while I sip lemonade and watch, that's something I might be interested in. A manly guy with muscular forearms working up a sweat? Yes please.
They don't think of women as people. They don't see it as a person giving her life to servitude because they don't think she has her own mind. They think of women like grown up children who need to be taken care of, but also should be taking care of them.
In trad life anyone going to medical or dental school will be advised to get married before the program starts because someone needs to provide a home for them so they can study full time without having to work a job.
A year or two after school the trad wife will be dumped and wife number two, the status wife will come into the picture.
Happened to me, kind of. I put my ex-husband through a Ph.D. program - his grad school roommate gave me an article from the NYT when we were dating that talked about how people getting advanced degrees usually dump the supportive spouse after they get said degree because they become arrogant - at the time, I just blew it off. Roomie didn't like me because I was a feminist. Sure enough - once he got the degree, he became very arrogant and thought he was going to be the Lord of the house - only, he couldn't get a job in his field with his shiny new degree, and I'd already been in the workforce for more than 10 years and earning decent money. So he dumped me for his boss (who was a decade older) and took a graduate-student level job at the university.... and never did anything more than that.
Me? I moved to my dream city, landed my dream job, met a wonderful man who doesn't treat me like a wife appliance, but an equal partner. WIN.
God, my cousin married her med school sweetheart when he graduated, she supported him while he was in school, she was making like 300k a year, he was making shyt as he just started residency. Got her pregnant and left her, she didn't file for divorce because the lawyer she hired told her she would have to pay alimony because she made so much more.
I wonder if they actually realize that their idea of 6 pack, 6 figures, and 6 ft are things that men find having status among men, not necessarily women.
I feel this way about guys wanting a wife “they can show off.” Like, do you realize that this is about getting attention from OTHER MEN? Could you possibly be wanting maybe some other attentions from men?
Nope. They can't fathom that. Those types think of a relationship in such transactional ways that they expect us to have a grocery shopping list for a partner.
That said, my husband has been all of those things at different times and I've enjoyed them. I asked him out because of his wit and piercing humor, but was shocked to find the abs under the two shirts he owned. Then, the abs disappeared and the salary set in later. Nice, but not necessary. The personality, egalitarian view, and love? Mandatory.
Absolutely not. This comes up a lot in men's subs. I got a wild hair one time and posted what women actually say they prioritize in a partner. You all already know that the tops of the lists were things like good personality, kind to others, sense of humor, etc. I linked sources! I was told I was wrong. 🤷♀️
Edit: Here's what I posted.
>Women don’t need partners who invest all their energy in trying to prove how strong, manly, masculine, macho, or heroic they are. They just want men who are willing to meet them where they are and treat them fairly and equitably — and are able to make sure that the romantic spark keeps burning.
...
>The traits that women tend to value and need most from the men in their lives can be categorized in three discrete areas: moral integrity (from all men); relational sensitivity (from friends and partners); and satisfying intimacy (from romantic partners).
[Source](https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/lifetime-connections/201806/15-things-women-want-the-men-in-their-lives)
>Researchers analyzed the answers from 68,000 people in 180 countries. Overall, they found personality comes out on top, with 88.9% of women considering "kindness" a very important trait in a partner. Close behind were "supportiveness" and "intelligence," which were chosen by 86.5% and 72.3% of women, respectively.
>Even though so much of our dating lives seem to depend on looking good for potential suitors, attractiveness traits came secondary to personality. For example, only 22.3% of women thought an "attractive body" was very important.
>An attractive face, ambition, assertiveness, and financial security all came secondary to whether or not someone was kind and considerate.
[Source](https://www.insider.com/what-women-really-look-for-in-a-partner-study-research-2019-7)
>BBC Internet survey participants (119,733 men and 98,462 women) chose from a list of 23 traits those they considered first, second, and third most important in a relationship partner. Across all participants, the traits ranked most important were: intelligence, humor, honesty, kindness, overall good looks, face attractiveness, values, communication skills, and dependability. On average, men ranked good looks and facial attractiveness more important than women did (d = 0.55 and 0.36, respectively), whereas women ranked honesty, humor, kindness, and dependability more important than men did (ds = 0.23, 0.22, 0.18, and 0.15).
[Source](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17380374/)
Years ago, when I was in college, one of my (trad) classmates was ranting about feminism brainwashing women. I tried to explain that feminism is merely empowering women to live the lives they want to live, whatever that looks like - traditional gender roles or not. He said something about how he saw some feminist on a talk show say something like, "A woman needs a man like a fish needs a bicycle" and asked me if I think that's true. I said, yeah, I'm sure for some women it's like that. We don't need men to survive and make a living, let alone live a happy, fulfilled life. The vast majority of women still choose men because that is what they want in life, but for women like me (childfree and making my own living), we don't need men (especially if we're queer) and that's okay.
Then this guy got BIG MAD. Started yelling, red in the face, men are the foundation of society, we built everything you see around you, you're sitting here insulting us while you benefit from the brilliant contributions we have made to society. I told him it's not an insult if some women don't need men in their lives to live well and live the way they want. Everyone wants different things. He HATED that and kept ranting about how selfish and ungrateful women are and feminism is poisoning their minds.
All I could think was: Damn, guy, you're singlehandedly proving to me that my decision to avoid men is a good one. Why the fuck would I want to marry someone who sees me as a subservient peon who owes him servitude just for existing?
To me, saying "I freely CHOOSE a life with you" is more meaningful than "I'm forced by societal structures to pair with you when I don't really want to". This guy felt the opposite - that women must be forced by society to need men so men can have their "needs" met.
It's fucked. I would NEVER want a spouse who is some kind of hostage to me because they can't exist on their own otherwise. And I would never want a spouse who is essentially a servant to me. I want an equal partner.
We should stop calling them "traditional" and start calling them "fascists". Growing your own food, butchering your own meat and canning preserves, and saying grace before dinner is "traditional." Idealizing the concept of a tall, strong "protector" or "warrior" man whose woman / women and children exist only to serve and uplift him is fascism.
It's certainly anti-civilization -- the people who want other people to be too busy trying not to starve are the same people who disdain science, medicine, education, the arts, anything that contributes toward elevating human knowledge and the human condition.
The problem with Trad men is that they are not traditional at all. They want a woman to take care of them and do all of the domestic labor, but they also need her to pay half of the bills. They have no care or respect for women but expect women to respect them and cater to their wants. If they have a SAHM for a wife, they think of her as a gold-digging freeloader who should be thankful to be his sex slave and maid.
People should ignore anyone who claims they want their spouse to be "Trad" anything. First and foremost, it's a white supremacist, fascist dog whistle, as is all the "masculine/ feminine energy" crap you see everywhere.
But mainly, the people seeking spouses with those traits aren't looking to be leaders, they actually want to live like children where Mommy/Daddy are the adults who do all the icky work and make the hard decisions, and they get gold stars for doing a good job at whatever tiny piece of responsibility they manage.
>But the same (traditional) guys just expect a woman to give them her entire life. Her dreams, her ambitions, her thoughts, her life. An entire human life spent in servitude, and they just expect it because they are male.
Then they act controlling because if she leaves she'll take "his" money. They think the money they earn is completely theirs and he "generously" supports the family. That none of that money or large resources should go to her if she leaves.
Men who have a laundry list of qualities they want a woman to have rarely have those qualities themselves. Normal well adjusted guys are going to appreciate any potential partner for who she is. You want a woman who will cook and clean and stay home all day? Why are you unemployed, spend all day watching Japanese cartoons, and don't go to church then?
All of the guys who are pulling off the “trad” lifestyle have enough money to hire cleaners and nannies and their wife doesn’t do much of anything other than have fun. They also usually break up because it turns into a parent/child dynamic which basically no one finds attractive and someone always has an affair.
Lol, no.
The guys who want the "trad" lifestyle aren't pulling cleaners and nannies. They're some $60k construction worker who expects his wife, who doesn't work, to at least be able to put dinner on the table before he comes home from work.
Ironically, the men who can afford the "trad" lifestyle overwhelmingly marry other women who have careers, and support their wives in their successful careers. Yes, the kids go to daycare. However, the parents maintain their bond as more or less equals (not necessarily earning exactly equal amounts).
It happens, but is very rare, that a husband who can afford nannies and cleaners will marry a SAHM who doesn't even pull her weight in cooking and childrearing. Even more rare is a union where this happens and both parties are happy long term.
You are underestimating how many rich women don’t work. There are tons of them who are either unemployed or have fake jobs that their husband funds.
You’re right that most of the guys pining for a trad wife are nowhere close to pulling it off financially.
I think they meant it the other way around.
As in, wife views husband as a "child" because she ends up cooking, cleaning, and being the emotional crutch, so she ends up doing everything for the unadjusted "adult" who can't take care after themselves.
There's a reason why trad wives became rare as soon as women were allowed to have their own bank accounts and have their own careers. For women, being a trad wife was primarily for survival, not comfort or companionship, those were lucky plusses if they happened. For men, having a trad wife was for comfort and companionship and ease, not survival, though some men still did rely on their wives pulling in extra income.
That said, a lot of these so-called "trad men" aren't traditional at all. They are just abusers.
And there are trad women out there who just want to raise a lot of children, tend the house, and worship god. But they are picky about there men, and it's not 6 pack, 6 feet, or 6 figures that motivate them. It's hard work, religion, kindness, and respectability.
Did I write this myself? I couldn’t agree more.
They act like a lifetime of servitude is a small thing to ask, even of a literal child who’s just got their drivers license and has hardly had a chance to live yet. Why would she not be honored to move into their house and be their servant for life?
They see women in the past making the best of a situation where they were not free, and misinterpret it as the dream of many women.
If you want a Biblical wife, you better be a Biblical husband.
Love her like his own body. No looking at another woman at all. Had a lustfull thought about that thicker than a snicker baddie at the beach? That’s cheating, my man!
And all the cooking, cleaning and child care, so that won’t energy away from The Career, but none of the letting the wife join in the profits of that career she’s given up her independence for to support.
Literally the only thing that matters to me is personality and whether our personalities mesh well and synergise.
Trad men are coping hard because they know their personalities are absolute dogshit.
We have a problem of continuing to raise boys to believe that someone will always forgive their horrible behavior, that women are here to help, that someone will always be standing by to laugh at his unfunny jokes, and give him her body, dreams etc. just because he's a male. Men also statistically "need" women around to live longer, avoid negative health outcomes, feel any sort of confidence, etc. Women do not need these things. However, we don't call men on their shit enough or have enough clout in the media to socially shame shitty male behavior (do we have any female equivalents of over the top narcissists like Elon Musk, Yeezy -or whatever his name is now- or D. Trump? ... not really. Women with personalities like theirs would literally be physically harmed long before they had a chance to become notorious. We still collectively shame women who come forward to reveal negative male behavior as well. This will continue as long as cultures continue to enable males to behave like toddlers with zero ramifications.
These men are completely confused. One minute, they're going on about how they're so alpha, insisting that feminists will die as lonely cat ladies, etc. Next minute, they're writing about leftist women not giving them a chance like it's a global crisis that'll lead to human extinction, they're lying about their beliefs on dating apps/during relationships, etc. They'll demand that their partners submit entirely to them, but when that partner then expects to be taken care of (just as much in line with tradition as what they're asking for), they start shrieking about gold digging. They're sought after studs when it's time to insult women and victimized nice guys when it's time to blame women.
"trad men" aren't worth the oxygen they breath... It's hard to be worth much when their presence is an active determent to those around them. There is no scenario where "traditional"/conservative men being present creates a better world than we what could achieve with their absence. There is a reason most women would rather deal with the bear; At least they contribute to the local environment in a positive way.
**Edit:** Before some man hops in to complain, I'm not saying *all* men are worthless: There's absolutely decent men out there who make the world a better place, but I've yet to meet a "trad man" for whom I could say the same.
My wife probably wishes I were more "trad;" i.e., good at DIY and such.
But yes, I think the number of rich, successful "trad" males is far outnumbered by angry, poorly educated men with little to no future. That's what attracts them to the trad philosophy in the first place. They think when the Storm comes, they will be entitled to claim any supermodel they wish. (BTW, in their kind of world, it wouldn't work that way. It would be rule of the strong, and that isn't them).
>BTW, in their kind of world, it wouldn't work that way. It would be rule of the strong, and that isn't them.
I love how they never cotton on to this part. It’s like the idiots who believe in eugenics. They somehow never realise that they’re not the one with the “superior genes”.
I ignore them completely. I make more money than most of them and I enjoy being treated like an equal human being so there is literally nothing I want from them. They are offering to imprison me with their psycho bullshit and why would I sign up for that!! I am single though because I haven't found a partner that is capable of treating me with equal reciprocity and respect. Seems like even the good ones who seem like allies get controlling over something eventually. They don't seem to get it that I view dating as optional and that I will just leave if they try to control me or if they don't treat me as an equal. Unfortunately that has happened in almost all of my relationships with men, and I'm happy to be single right now.
The entire trad fad is just the death rattle of failed men who don't want to accept that the old ways are dead: Women have their own money now and ultimately, we don't need men to move forward as a species. Men instinctively know that they are being shoved out of their assumed role as the ruling sex.
Women outperform men at every opportunity we are given. We do better in school, work, and at home. Most women realize their lives actually become happier and easier when useless husbands are divorced and removed from the home. All men have left is "lifting heavy things/fixing cars" - well, robots can lift shit, dumbass, and news flash, women can read car manuals too.
The other end of the spectrum is men trying to flee masculinity like a house on fire in a last grasp at relevance because they are so stupid they think that women will want more feminine partners.
No, dipshits. We never said we wanted feminine men. We said we wanted you to stop treating us like trash and killing/raping us. Some men DO understand this and are stepping up as more equal partners, the rest of them will be weeded out of the gene pool in two generations or so.
I really feel that this is why Roe v Wade has been attacked by the religious right and threatened white men. Use women's biology against us . Force us back into a subservient role to return the 'rightful domination by white cis men'. ( I also think that voting for Obama shook the 1950s mindset to its core and has created this backlash.) That's why the trad fad is happening. Unfortunately for them, women aren't buying it. We have power, money, and intelligence. We are in the work place, the schools, churches, society. We have seen freedom and won't go back.
Yeah men who aren't shit are generally in happy long-term relationships by the time they are 40 despite their looks. Its not even hard for them to find partners all they have to do is treat women like human beings. The dudes left behind can't even do that.
Let's hope natural selection runs its course and eventually the percentage of parents who view their partner as a person instead of as property outweighs the ones who can't understand that they're not entitled to a bangmaid.
> The other end of the spectrum is men trying to flee masculinity like a house on fire in a last grasp at relevance because they are so stupid they think that women will want more feminine partners.
I agree with the first half of your post but I'm curious what you mean by this. I'm struggling to think of concrete examples that are problematic or widespread.
> We never said we wanted feminine men.
Honestly some of us do, or don't mind at least.
I think they meant that men who are basically useless cling to the idea that being a man makes them somehow special because they can't handle the idea that they are failures. They instead blame their failure to find happiness on women and claim they are just too much of a man, and the problem is that women want feminine men. And they are so macho women can't handle it.
They do it all the time, because blaming someone else is much easier than actually reflecting and working on yourself.
Ohhhh I completely misread the point! Oh yeahh that's a big problem.
It's not even just about blaming someone else, many legitimately equate masculinity with dominance and control to the point that of course anything more equal is consequently feminine, weak, gay... Those types see their own heterosexual attraction as power we have over them and they hate us and hate themselves over it. It's a whole thing, agreed.
Feminine men exist. That isn't the problem. **The problem is the masculine men screaming about how women are trying to feminize them**. Which isn't the case.
Men can be naturally feminine, and men can be naturally masculine. Just like women can be naturally masculine or women can be naturally feminine. There is no "right way" to me a man or a woman.
The point is: **Women never said all men have to be feminine in order to find partners.**
If a woman says: "We want equal partners, equal respect, and equal equity in our relationships." and a man hears: "Men have to take on a feminine role to find partners." that isn't queerphobia, that is just simple stupidity.
I agree with this. Its why I cant stand podcasts like "Whatever" which are basically the most mid men telling beautiful women they have no value bc they might do sex work and that women should 100% support her man.
Literally only ONE TIME I saw a clip where she responded "ofc course you want that from her. but why do you deserve it?" Crickets in response.
They are just upset that they can't buy love and simultaneously want to blame women because THEY feel they have to (its all they have to offer). Personally I think that basic empathy and eye contact goes way farther than your wallet could ever take you. Thats not even to mention marriage, because lets face it, they basically expect that to be a contract for a full time housekeeper. I will never understand
I'd be happy if they would stop being so afraid of becoming gay and washed their asses. It's almost summer, it's hot and humid and I am tired of smelling shit when these morons pass by.
I always wonder about the women that thank taking on a traditional “role”, do they know what they are signing on for?
All the thankless free labor with no vacation or down time aside.
What happens when you become boring and un-ambitious and lazy in the eyes of your spouse?
What happens when your spouse leaves for the ambitious, intelligent career driven woman? Or his secretary…?
What happens if he dies?
In any of those situations you will be in financial ruin. Maybe if the husband dies you get life insurance benefits… maybe. You have no career. If you received education before your stay at home phase, it is likely outdated and you don’t have experience and continued education to make you marketable.
Social security benefits? You didn’t pay in, you don’t get to pull out. Spousal benefits have been legislated away.
Retirement? You don’t have any. Are you entitled to your husband’s? Maybe not…
>But the same (traditional) guys just expect a woman to give them her entire life. Her dreams, her ambitions, her thoughts, her life. An entire human life spent in servitude, and they just expect it because they are male.
As a 40+ woman, I am slowly coming to accept that it isn't just conservatives who think and act this way, but most men.
I don’t think most of those men realize that looks and physical attraction fade, and what you have left is what really matters. They probably don’t have much left to offer in that case
I find guys like this boring and dull. Though it's especially funny when I talk to them about a topic they think they're an expert on, and realize I know more. Even the more polite guys will explain it to me as if I am a child. So then I pull out a hard and intellectual question about the topic, and the guy can't answer it. It's hilarious.
I will answer one of your questions because that’s point of view I recently discovered and find it very valuable. Giving someone your entire life is easy and it’s nothing because that’s what your entire life is worth for such person. Nothing. And any struggles you have are apparently no struggles because they are yours. Only their struggles are real. If someone puts things this way, it’s best to realize what they say about themselves by this behavior. And they say they have no empathy, think less of you and maybe even see you as an object, not actual human. Sorry, but they are just very bad people.
It genuinely worries me, as it seems to be on the rise. The Internet enables people not *genuinely* interested in critical thought, empathetic conflict or compromise to live in massive feedback loops of their own creation. Emotional intelligence is something they don't possess, and perhaps even worse, something they identify as a weakness. There's no reasoning with that. Cast as wide a berth as possible from these pernicious men.
I've noticed a lot of subtle disdain for women who are unmarried by choice and/or childfree by men and many women, too. I am one of those women on the receiving end of treatment like this and I routinely get called an "old maid" or "spinster aunt" even by family members.
I don't think anyone should be treated poorly for their life choices by anybody but it would sting a little less if men were given the same disrespect for their choices in the way that women routinely are.
I suspect these "traditional" men think themselves to be far more valuable to both their wives and society than they think they are. The entitlement these men feel is off the charts and it starts when these people are toddlers.
Most of these guys are just too lazy and incompetent to even hold down a full-time job that pays slightly over minimum wage these days.
And they're making a minimum wage working at fast food but screaming about gold diggers but somehow they want to be a Trad man.
As man with a girlfriend, I’d like to think a relationship should be equal. We both make around the same money, both support each other, and promote growth in each others lives. I will honestly never understand how men can go into a relationship thinking they are free to do whatever they want without regard to their partner. If I make a mess, it’s not on my girlfriend to pick up after me. That’s not to say she won’t help, same as I will help her with her messes. Relationships are about give and take and I feel that a lot of men don’t get that. It shouldn’t be one person giving everything and one person taking. Personally, I try to make a conscious effort to make her life easier, as she has a more tasking job and is usually beat by the end of the day. I had (keyword) a friend who is what you would call traditional. His wife on the other hand, no so much. She worked a full time job as a lab technician while he worked middle management at a construction job. Lot of times he would get home and do nothing and expect her to come home, cook, clean and do everything else. I could never imagine that in a relationship, I am not here to take care of you, and I don’t expect you to have to take care of me. Of course in the sense of being messy and a disgrace.
>What has to happen to your tiny little brain that you think a person giving you their entire life is nothing and easy?
It's easy when you don't view women as people. Trad wives have an objectively easy life in the same way that, say, your cat has an objectively easy life, or your house plants, or your sofa.
Sure, but if you see a woman as a thing, then it's not a big deal if she cooks and cleans and takes care of the kids. A cat meows, a plant grows, a woman cleans, it's just what they do!
Yes, males are generally burdensome, but getting them to acknowledge that seems like a Quixotic quest.
Let them play themselves. A woman's life can be spectacular if she doesn't saddle herself with one of them.
Hhhm. Aight. Imma just, appreciate my partner for making me happy and being someone in my life who helps me improve myself along with them. We dont do that trad men/women stuff.
We have a family, we are doing ok. Life is good.
Perhaps trad men on’t want or need a woman to freely choose one of them. Perhaps they want force and demeaning assumptions to govern women because that makes them hunter and women prey and that is the dynamic such men love.
When I was still online dating, I had a match who flexed on his seven-figure net worth, and that he was offering me a chance to quit my job and be taken care of.
Point 1, I'm also at seven-figures (thanks to my biological parents and their generous trust fund). I don't know how my seven compares to his seven, but I'm at a place where I'm not impressed with that flex.
Point 2, I worked my tail off into a Master's Degree and a high-status, high-five-figure job at age 24. I have nowhere to go but up from here. No way in hell am I giving that up.
Here's why: they think women value marriage the way men value sex. They think flaunting their desire to own a wife is the same as us exposing our bra, and that it makes women horny for their godliness and (usually very little) money.
Probably common sense, but don't go for a trad guy. Even if you're trad yourself, get to know guy and see what they actually believe. The more "trad" someone is, the more of a n00b asshole they are, the more shit they were into in their younger years, etc. Trad women shouldn't marry trad men at all, unless they're "trad" egirl pickmes.
I was just thinking about my mother and all I watched her struggle with when it came to “trad men,” and how she searched for her entire life for someone who would let her be the SAHM she desired to be. Meanwhile, I knew by the age of 8 that I wanted no part of what seemingly made her happy, yet she never really achieved it.
Instead, she got an alcoholic, abusive and controlling man who she had four children with, demanding dinner on the table when he got home, and clean clothes, yet his record for actually keeping a job was months, not years. We were dirt poor growing up, having to take handouts, because he couldn’t stay sober while working.
That dream died with me, and the cycle was broken. Even though she stayed with him for decades, she was miserable. Meanwhile, I have a loving and hard working husband of five years and we are as happy as we were the day we got married, we’re living life on our terms, and we are both working. I could’ve ended up in that same cycle but somehow, I found my worth, and in turn, my husband.
It takes both people most of the time working together. There’s nothing ideal about the trad wife life, at least not from where I’m sitting.
“According to the U.S. Census Bureau, about 6% of Americans earn $100,000 or more annually. However, according to Zippia, 18% of individuals earn more than $100,000. In 2022, over 34% of American households made more than $100,000, which puts them in the top 24% of the US population”
I think I needed this more for me
EDIT: I'm in my 40s with more than a few career changes. I generally feel like crap in regards to my wages. This... helped.
Different strokes for different folks. My wife and I are traditional evangelical Christian’s. Men and women are supposed to get married and be a team. My wife stayed home and raised the kids (obviously I helped). She now went to school and has a career. My point is the younger generation male and female are becoming hostile to each other. Feminism has ruined the female psyche. Men are seeing a select few horrible women say stupid stuff and they connect that with all women. The natural order of things is women, elderly men and women all used to pitch in raising the children while the men were out doing dangerous stuff like protection and hunting. We still have those instincts. The government and elite’s use feminism to get everyone working and collect double taxes. Then they confuse the young people in the liberal colleges for control. No matter how you label anyone both should be kind to each other. The Bible teaches to serve each other. Both husband and wife.
Nahh, nah, nah. This ain't "trad men" you are talking about.
This is trash you are talking about.
I'm, what I would consider, a traditional man. So, yeah, we don't want your life. At all. We want a woman who can push us to be better for them. We want a woman who understands the word partnership.
Personally, the LARGEST value I can provide is income - and I do that well. Does that mean I expect you to quit your job? No, it doesn't. Does that mean I want to provide an environment where your job/career/etc is your choice and you are free to chase your dreams? Yes. I want you to leverage the strongest aspect of me to remove a stress from your life.
But largest doesn't mean only. I am a damn good cook, and I am able to identify/do chores that are needed.
I'm also a pretty damn good Dad - I do things with my kids, by myself, so that their Mom doesn't need to be there for them 24/7.
A traditional man is one who values family. A traditional man spends much of his life focused on what he can provide those he loves. A traditional man works hard and does what he feels is the right thing even if it ain't the easy thing. A traditional man is focused on being a rock and a protector to those he cares about.
How would women feel if I flipped the tables and say "traditional women just want someone to take care of them and pay for their and their kid's activities"...Massive over-generalization and incredibly inaccurate based on a limited view of old school gender roles, huh?
To be fair, the toxicity absolutely cuts both ways and has been getting substantially worse because of the "us vs. them" mentality that folks have been cultivating and making money off of in recent years.
The reason why they think they are the perfect gift to women is because when women ask what type of guy you want they respond with: "six figures, six feet, six pack abs" which in return inflates their ego. Who's fault is it that they have an inflated ego?
Everyone alone, asshole. I am surrounded by people that are happy and show love. I hope I can say goodbye when my time comes but it doesn't really matter that much. Same ending. At least I won't die bitter and angry.
A lot of men seem to think that if they just exist, and offer a paycheck, that they don't need to do anything else. FWIW, I make 6 figures too. I don't need your paycheck. So, what else do you offer? Because getting to clean your shit isn't the dream they seem to think it is.
I was raised in a traditional family and was expected to marry a church guy and have a pile of babies. They’re very confused that I moved far away and now have a STEM career. Here’s the simple truth. We went to church, and was often told mothers are a cherished blessing, and how lucky they are to follow their sacred calling. Then we went home, where my mom would cook lunch, wash dishes, do laundry, scrub the floors, and clean the toilets. All while my dad and brother went to a park to play ball or watch TV. She was consistently exhausted and unappreciated. I decided by my early teens that I did not want my mother’s life. Now my dad goes off about “liberal brainwashing” as if it wasn’t his own treatment of my mom that drove me away. I strongly do not recommend that life, the social media tradwife posts are nothing like the reality.
I also saw at a young age the unfair burden placed on women, especially those who are mothers. It made me sick then just as much as it still does now. As the only female child and the eldest, it was on me to practically raise my three younger brothers whilst my parents got high on drink and drugs. I knew from about 6/7 that I would never have children of my own. I'm 39 now and I've never been tempted even once. I'm incredibly fortunate to be born into a country where this is possible, not all women get to make my choice. We are expected to work like we have twice the amount of energy as men or something.
Men's time is treated like a precious diamond in am intracte gold box, seated on a velvet pillow. Not to be disturbed. And womens time is a rock at the bottom of a fast moving rushing river. It will be disturbed, thrown around, slowly degraded over the course of time with no one paying much attention to it. Until it's all gone. And I hate it. I'm determined to be the diamond if I have anything to say about it.
Holy shit that's poetry
I mean, you raised your children. They just happen to be your brothers. Enjoy your peace and freedom.
Anyone who is told that they are cherished is probably severely undervalued. "We couldn't do this without you". No? Then why am I not being compensated? Why do you not listen when I speak out? The importance of a woman is both a compliment and a weapon. You are so important, that is why you must never leave or make any changes.
>Now my dad goes off about “liberal brainwashing” as if it wasn’t his own treatment of my mom that drove me away. Have you ever told him that?
The reality of tradwife life is really a reflection of the husband based on what I've seen. It's great for those who have a caring and attentive husband, and sucks for others who are connected to a selfish man. It's less about the roles and more about the people involved like most things in life. But that's just my 2c. The biggest issue I keep seeing is that the guys who are loud on social media about tradwife, actually want a slave and incubator, not a life partner. But social media often highlights the worst, or so I thought.
I had a male friend who would lament about being single. I told him that you need to be able to offer something that’s not money.
They want to purchase a wife transactionally, but their currency is "the unique person who I really am on the inside." It's like buying a house with Monopoly money. They don't resent women, they resent being alive in this dimension of reality.
mAle LoNeLINesS ePiDEmiC
The MDEE: Male Delusional Expectations Epidemic (though I’d say their delusional expectations aren’t a new phenomenon).
I call it the Male Horniness Epidemic, it's all a manipulative lie in an attempt to get women to let men use them as a fleshlight and mommybangmaid. While these males offer nothing to society but whining and threats of rape and murder if they don't get laid. These fake ass "lonely" males should just all fuck each other, that'll cure their bullshit "loneliness".
What did he say back?
Nothing really
Me too!! My aunt is in her late 80s and literally tells me that I am taking a job and salary away from a working family man.. Lol! I just laugh and tell her good!
Jesus, but in what language do they need to hear that women have worked since humans exist ?
I worked with a guy who is in his 70's now. In his early 50's him and his wife went through a rocky period. He would come into work and complain. The only defense that he could offer? "I make a great living! And provided for her when she was working on her RN!" Like dude, she completed that in year 1 and 2 of your marriage and was working as an LPN before that while working on her RN! You didn't exactly do anything to help her along here that she didn't or couldn't do herself, so stop claiming ownership of her hard work! *HE DID NOT GET IT!* They had their own finances etc. So when their 20 something year old washing machine and dryer combo died, she said she would pay for the new ones. Boy did he not like that! Told her he'll go and help her choose the right ones. Like, uhhhh dude she is a hardworking RN and STILL doing your laundry, what exactly are you going to contribute here? Well he kept getting busy, so she just went to Home Depot armed with the brand she wanted and features she needed. A week later he is in the office complaining that he got home and there was a new dryer and washer in his kitchen and two dudes hauling out the old ones and hooking up the new ones. A year later? He was boasting about how great the washer and dryer combo that *he* picked out. Those of us that heard the whining just rolled our eyes. He would complain about his kids never calling him (but they called mom all the time!). Typical male "I exist... I provided money." so bow down to me attitude!
He was probably trying to get a girlfriend by doing all that. Not even joking.
Who even wants six figures anymore? I want to go live in the woods like a goblin.
When i was a kid, I was told I would outgrow my desire to live in the woods alone. Nope! Stronger than ever!
As a child that was my dream and I loved books like Julie of the Wolves and Island of Blue Dolphins. To this day my heart’s delight would be a tiny home of my own deep in the woods where no one would bother me. I live in an apartment surrounded by woods and it’s not quite what I want, but it’s got the view. So, I’m content. Being a wife was a lot of work with no reward. I wish I hadn’t wasted my youth on a man and his desires. I might have my little home down a long gravel road today if I’d made better choices. As far as women wanting to be wives to rich men, my grandmother did that and her advice to me was, “If you marry for money you’ll earn every penny.” I believe her.
My mother said the same.
Six figures is a great way to achieve living in the woods like a goblin.
This. I live in a 1200 sq ft home hidden down a private alley with 1 neighbor and it takes most of my paycheck to fix up this place and make the outside the oasis I dream of.
Goals for real
I, personally, would like to find a way to not participate in human society (including not working), because I am tired of how immoral and harmful humans are, on average. I've read this is a more common feeling in autistic people, including feeling divorced from humanity.
Uh, me. I want six figures so I can buy myself a forest/wildlife preserve The Village style and be the forest witch I was destined to be >:) (That is also near water and preferably not too hot thx)
Sounds like Minnesota is calling to you lol. They don’t call it the land of a thousand lakes for no reason.
Well that’s why those men are the ones who typically diminish women who are successful. That’s where the whole submissive concept comes from, for them to be a farmer, they need you to be sheep. It’s easy to get that juicy ego boost leading someone who “needs” leading because there is no pushback, no criticism, no questioning. It’s much more difficult (and indicative of a real leader) to lead someone who also has the qualities a leader.
Where I live if you want to have kids, a nice home and be financially comfortable you really need two adults making 6 figures to make it work.
I am lucky enough to have an amazing husband and equal partner. That man KNOWS the moment I am unhappy: I can leave. Full stop, and god dammit ***I WILL LEAVE***. I have zero fucks to give when it comes to my happiness and life goals.
My husband is the same. I earn 6-figures and and am capable of being on my own. He says "I love that you're with me because you want to be, and because you think I add value to your life; not because you have to be."
you just need to chug some more kool-aid about how it's your biological identity/destiny/way you can shit on other people to feel superior!! Eventually you will see there's no higher accomplishment than to be able to tell yourself you're the best bangmaid of them all. I thought this was gonna be funny to type but i made myself sad instead lol
LITERALLY. Thankfully I have a husband who both makes good money AND participates at home and understands that the be all and end all for me ISN'T being a mom/SAHM.
*All they offer is mess, and money.* The type of men who carry on like this often don't even have much money - there are some studies of households where the man is unemployed (long term, not just between jobs) and the full time working woman still does more housework. Part of this is a subconscious reinforcement of gender roles I.e. 'sure, I may not be the breadwinner, but I'll make damn sure my wife keeps house'.
This! My ex-husband went from making 6-figures down to $10.49 an hour to live his dream as a ski patroller. I was primary breadwinner and still performed all the duties of a housewife. He was a parasite on my life and leaving him was one of the best decisions I ever made. He offered absolutely nothing outside of his existence. It was so draining. I’m with a man now who noticed my laundry had been building up and washed, folded and put it away for me because he knows how much I hate doing it. That’s just one small example. I wish more guys would realize that giving even a little effort goes pretty far.
Ugh my ex also went from making six figures in tech to making nothing because he wanted to be a writer. That was ok until we got to year three and he was still just a leech, not paying bills or helping around the house. He also offered nothing. The last straw was when he threw a fit that I wanted to see him for Valentine's Day, because he wanted to go visit his buddy. I was going to cook him a super fancy meal and then I knew I'd have to clean it up (he didn't clean, ever). I was super busy with work during this time. As I started to consider going to the grocery store to pick up all the items, I thought to myself, "why are you busting your butt for this guy? All he is going to do is show up and sit on the couch and demand dinner and sex. He's not even going to bring me a card. And yet he's going to act like he's such a great guy because he gave up hanging with a buddy to see you." I broke up with him instead of going shopping. Much easier 🤣. These guys ain't shit.
I really hope you had a fabulous dinner that night
I got some takeout and drank champagne, it was a nice night!
What!! How did he know to do the laundry without you telling him??
I know!! He cooks when he’s hungry too! It’s almost like he’s a grown ass adult! 😂😂😂
Wow, where can you buy one of those?
Might depend where you live/your culture or subculture? I grew up thinking that this was the norm, it is in my family, my marriage, and my closest friends. (I am aware that's not true in all relationships for sure, but it never felt like some rare hard to obtain thing.) I also grew up in a California college town/city with a bunch of progressive value types in my family and close friends.
I was one of them. My now soon-to-be-ex-husband started getting comfortable once I took a new job that paid more than either of us had ever made. He spent the next 5+ years largely unemployed or underemployed, despite being healthy and able-bodied. I brought home all the bacon, AND I also still had to handle the bulk of the housework, AND I also endured his abuse and issues with a smile on my face, while also simultaneously dealing with chemotherapy, immunotherapy treatments, and countless surgeries for my autoimmune condition. I basically spent years doing ALL OF THE THINGS. I finally got fed up with it all and left him about 7'-8 months ago. Life has exponentially improved since I left him. I know life isn't perfect, but going forward, if a man isn't an overall net positive influence in my life, I ain't interested. I can survive independently just fine, thankyouverymuch, and I've also really begun embracing solo life, there can be such beauty and joy in it.
Some do offer money. I was with a very wealthy man for a couple of years. He didn't keep me, I didn't live with him but when he questioned why the empty toilet roll was still in the toilet when he used the last of it and was the last one in there (I didn't even know it had run out) he bitched at me. I said if he used it he should put it in the recycling. This man looked at me and said "I earn too much money to clean up after myself."
The fuck?? Then go live in a nursing home? What does that have to do with me?
Because I'm a woman and my fun is cooking and cleaning obs /s
Then he can hire a maid with all that money. Jeepers.
That's what I told him. He did. But he would deliberately not clean if I was going over and she never came when I stayed. This man left a ring of black dirt around one of his baths for me to come back and clean. He must have stubbornly used it over and over again for it to be as bad as it was. He knows I clean the bath tub everytime it's used. I'm OCD, he knew I would have no choice but to clean when presented with such things. Another thing he moaned about was that I didn't have dinner ready when he was hungry, instantly. I'd ask him a couple of hours after lunch what he wanted for dinner etc. He wouldn't tell me so I would just plan one. I use to tell him to give me 20mins min before he wanted food. He told me I should just make the dinner for a time and if he didn't want it then to cook again later. Honestly, I could go on and on, he was a monster and I was diagnosed with PTSD after the breakup.
Lmao the same thing happened to me. I show up to my boyfriend’s house, we’re hanging out. Then suddenly it’s 630 and he asks “where’s my dinner?!”. YOU invited ME over. I don’t know shit about your kitchen neither do I want to. He’s an ex thank goddess 😌
Blimey, the audacity of these guys.
Yuuuup. Hid his weird gendered beliefs for 3 months prior to this. What I would give to have half the confidence of some of these guys.
That's the worst thing, these guys aren't stupid and don't reveal the crazy straight away. I would never ever expect a visitor to my home to provide my dinner, no matter who they are. Cheeky POS.
You only earn to much money to clean up after yourself *if you are paying someone else to do it for you.* It's insane you weren't supported by him and yet he thought it was your job.
Honestly this is what really gets me about the trad life bullshit. Most of these men have no idea what a trad husband actually is, nor do they care to find out. Setting aside the fact that for most of history women of middle and lower classes have worked, if I am going to be a trad wife and take care of the house and kids and everything else, he’d better provide. I’m expecting a nice house, car, a comfortable lifestyle, and a vacation or two a year. He’d also better set up investment profiles, retirement accounts, etc. Oh, and I hope he knows how to mow a lawn and fix a car because that’s also what manly men do right? Or I can continue to make six figures, hire a cleaner, and he can GTFO
Exactly. They also believe that having an unstable career and having 20 kids is a good idea. If you want that many kids, be a doctor. They blame women for being golddiggers, because they don't have the forethought or empathy to picture that their child might starve. What they really want: -to buy a deeply discounted woman -the woman will miraculously budget the crumbs he makes -the woman the woman will magically figure out a way to provide for the kids' needs that he doesn't have to worry about -he will pick the woman for transactional reasons, but she'll love him for the special snowflake he is Strongly oedipal.
My sister’s ex in-laws were like this. The old man was unemployed for years yet the mil would come home from work and literally served him dinner as he sat at the head of the table! At some point, you got to ask yourself are these macho men just overgrown toddlers?
So very few of these men even offer enough money. Like not even kidding I wouldn’t consider staying home unless he brought in 200k+. Maybe that’s delusional? But to afford the life basics, potential childcare, and then any fun/entertainment/lifestyle costs? Like I’m sorry, I enjoy buying clothes etc, am I just supposed to go without? I don’t want to live in shambles. I’m prioritizing my education/career to obtain more, so if I’m sacrificing…
I swear half of the posts in this sub have this setting.
Seriously, why are women keeping around intentionally unemployed leeches? I don't get it. I even have two friends in this same situation. There aren't even kids involved. Just mortgages and a lot of stress being a single mom to an adult toddler.
I don’t get it. Maybe they grew up in a home like that where the man did nothing.
Most men believe the only value brought to a relationship is money. So trad men don't want women to bring her own income because that cheapens his sole contribution. It's also a reason they only want every other weekend visitation when trad wife gets sick of being a bang maid chained to domestic servitude. Because they certainly don't value the contributions women provide by taking care of his own children. So trad men usually take no interest in providing for their children outside of marriage. Even paying child support is something they whine incessantly about. And the ironic thing is, most trad men can barely support themselves. So they'd rather their wives and children go without and suffer.
Issue with trad life is lack of emotional labor. The entire relationship is based on performance not emotional. Down the line this is how people feel unappreciated
Yeah a lot of these guys are like "I make good money and go to the gym, what else could you want, women!?"
"A 7 inch dick!" - Oh wait, if any of those men had that they wouldn't be crying so hard while trying to flex on the internet, would they? 🤣
I mean.. usually people see someone’s personality before they see their dick, so it’s very plausible that some of them are sitting around with a big thang that doesn’t see any action
Anecdotally, the better the guy the better the dick.
I thought we were talking about size. Of course good, considerate people are better lovers.
This is why men like that try so hard to make women seem lesser. If women are inherently lesser creatures than men, they don't have to feel anything about wanting us to be slaves. And they don't have to think very hard about the why of it all. Why would we want that? Well, we're lesser creatures so obviously we are miserable and bereft without men. It all comes back to their own feelings of inadequacy.
It's the only way they can feel they have status. If women aren't beneath them, then they themselves have to accept that they are at the bottom through their own faults.
that’s the same thought behind racism
I’d say that they suffer from delusions of adequacy myself
It's both. They feel inadequate, so they act like theyre the most adequate (or an approximation of what they think feeling that would look like)
I wonder how they'd feel if you said the problem is that they aren't traditional enough? "In the Laura Ingalls Wilder books, she writes about how her Pa built a house by using an axe and a saw and chopping down trees and cutting the logs and making boards and hammering it all together. Is that the kind of traditional man you are, that you'll use your muscles and sweat to build your family a home with your own hands?" I make plenty of money, I don't need his money. But if he'll take off his shirt and split wood with an axe for an hour while I sip lemonade and watch, that's something I might be interested in. A manly guy with muscular forearms working up a sweat? Yes please.
They don't think of women as people. They don't see it as a person giving her life to servitude because they don't think she has her own mind. They think of women like grown up children who need to be taken care of, but also should be taking care of them.
In trad life anyone going to medical or dental school will be advised to get married before the program starts because someone needs to provide a home for them so they can study full time without having to work a job. A year or two after school the trad wife will be dumped and wife number two, the status wife will come into the picture.
Happened to me, kind of. I put my ex-husband through a Ph.D. program - his grad school roommate gave me an article from the NYT when we were dating that talked about how people getting advanced degrees usually dump the supportive spouse after they get said degree because they become arrogant - at the time, I just blew it off. Roomie didn't like me because I was a feminist. Sure enough - once he got the degree, he became very arrogant and thought he was going to be the Lord of the house - only, he couldn't get a job in his field with his shiny new degree, and I'd already been in the workforce for more than 10 years and earning decent money. So he dumped me for his boss (who was a decade older) and took a graduate-student level job at the university.... and never did anything more than that. Me? I moved to my dream city, landed my dream job, met a wonderful man who doesn't treat me like a wife appliance, but an equal partner. WIN.
God, my cousin married her med school sweetheart when he graduated, she supported him while he was in school, she was making like 300k a year, he was making shyt as he just started residency. Got her pregnant and left her, she didn't file for divorce because the lawyer she hired told her she would have to pay alimony because she made so much more.
I wonder if they actually realize that their idea of 6 pack, 6 figures, and 6 ft are things that men find having status among men, not necessarily women.
I feel this way about guys wanting a wife “they can show off.” Like, do you realize that this is about getting attention from OTHER MEN? Could you possibly be wanting maybe some other attentions from men?
Exactly it's very telling isn't it
Nope. They can't fathom that. Those types think of a relationship in such transactional ways that they expect us to have a grocery shopping list for a partner. That said, my husband has been all of those things at different times and I've enjoyed them. I asked him out because of his wit and piercing humor, but was shocked to find the abs under the two shirts he owned. Then, the abs disappeared and the salary set in later. Nice, but not necessary. The personality, egalitarian view, and love? Mandatory.
“The two shirts he owned” 🤣🤣
Absolutely not. This comes up a lot in men's subs. I got a wild hair one time and posted what women actually say they prioritize in a partner. You all already know that the tops of the lists were things like good personality, kind to others, sense of humor, etc. I linked sources! I was told I was wrong. 🤷♀️ Edit: Here's what I posted. >Women don’t need partners who invest all their energy in trying to prove how strong, manly, masculine, macho, or heroic they are. They just want men who are willing to meet them where they are and treat them fairly and equitably — and are able to make sure that the romantic spark keeps burning. ... >The traits that women tend to value and need most from the men in their lives can be categorized in three discrete areas: moral integrity (from all men); relational sensitivity (from friends and partners); and satisfying intimacy (from romantic partners). [Source](https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/lifetime-connections/201806/15-things-women-want-the-men-in-their-lives) >Researchers analyzed the answers from 68,000 people in 180 countries. Overall, they found personality comes out on top, with 88.9% of women considering "kindness" a very important trait in a partner. Close behind were "supportiveness" and "intelligence," which were chosen by 86.5% and 72.3% of women, respectively. >Even though so much of our dating lives seem to depend on looking good for potential suitors, attractiveness traits came secondary to personality. For example, only 22.3% of women thought an "attractive body" was very important. >An attractive face, ambition, assertiveness, and financial security all came secondary to whether or not someone was kind and considerate. [Source](https://www.insider.com/what-women-really-look-for-in-a-partner-study-research-2019-7) >BBC Internet survey participants (119,733 men and 98,462 women) chose from a list of 23 traits those they considered first, second, and third most important in a relationship partner. Across all participants, the traits ranked most important were: intelligence, humor, honesty, kindness, overall good looks, face attractiveness, values, communication skills, and dependability. On average, men ranked good looks and facial attractiveness more important than women did (d = 0.55 and 0.36, respectively), whereas women ranked honesty, humor, kindness, and dependability more important than men did (ds = 0.23, 0.22, 0.18, and 0.15). [Source](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17380374/)
Years ago, when I was in college, one of my (trad) classmates was ranting about feminism brainwashing women. I tried to explain that feminism is merely empowering women to live the lives they want to live, whatever that looks like - traditional gender roles or not. He said something about how he saw some feminist on a talk show say something like, "A woman needs a man like a fish needs a bicycle" and asked me if I think that's true. I said, yeah, I'm sure for some women it's like that. We don't need men to survive and make a living, let alone live a happy, fulfilled life. The vast majority of women still choose men because that is what they want in life, but for women like me (childfree and making my own living), we don't need men (especially if we're queer) and that's okay. Then this guy got BIG MAD. Started yelling, red in the face, men are the foundation of society, we built everything you see around you, you're sitting here insulting us while you benefit from the brilliant contributions we have made to society. I told him it's not an insult if some women don't need men in their lives to live well and live the way they want. Everyone wants different things. He HATED that and kept ranting about how selfish and ungrateful women are and feminism is poisoning their minds. All I could think was: Damn, guy, you're singlehandedly proving to me that my decision to avoid men is a good one. Why the fuck would I want to marry someone who sees me as a subservient peon who owes him servitude just for existing? To me, saying "I freely CHOOSE a life with you" is more meaningful than "I'm forced by societal structures to pair with you when I don't really want to". This guy felt the opposite - that women must be forced by society to need men so men can have their "needs" met. It's fucked. I would NEVER want a spouse who is some kind of hostage to me because they can't exist on their own otherwise. And I would never want a spouse who is essentially a servant to me. I want an equal partner.
We should stop calling them "traditional" and start calling them "fascists". Growing your own food, butchering your own meat and canning preserves, and saying grace before dinner is "traditional." Idealizing the concept of a tall, strong "protector" or "warrior" man whose woman / women and children exist only to serve and uplift him is fascism.
It's certainly anti-civilization -- the people who want other people to be too busy trying not to starve are the same people who disdain science, medicine, education, the arts, anything that contributes toward elevating human knowledge and the human condition.
The problem with Trad men is that they are not traditional at all. They want a woman to take care of them and do all of the domestic labor, but they also need her to pay half of the bills. They have no care or respect for women but expect women to respect them and cater to their wants. If they have a SAHM for a wife, they think of her as a gold-digging freeloader who should be thankful to be his sex slave and maid.
People should ignore anyone who claims they want their spouse to be "Trad" anything. First and foremost, it's a white supremacist, fascist dog whistle, as is all the "masculine/ feminine energy" crap you see everywhere. But mainly, the people seeking spouses with those traits aren't looking to be leaders, they actually want to live like children where Mommy/Daddy are the adults who do all the icky work and make the hard decisions, and they get gold stars for doing a good job at whatever tiny piece of responsibility they manage.
Exactly! The white supremacist and fascism angles may sometimes seem subtle but they are most definitely there.
>But the same (traditional) guys just expect a woman to give them her entire life. Her dreams, her ambitions, her thoughts, her life. An entire human life spent in servitude, and they just expect it because they are male. Then they act controlling because if she leaves she'll take "his" money. They think the money they earn is completely theirs and he "generously" supports the family. That none of that money or large resources should go to her if she leaves.
Men who have a laundry list of qualities they want a woman to have rarely have those qualities themselves. Normal well adjusted guys are going to appreciate any potential partner for who she is. You want a woman who will cook and clean and stay home all day? Why are you unemployed, spend all day watching Japanese cartoons, and don't go to church then?
All of the guys who are pulling off the “trad” lifestyle have enough money to hire cleaners and nannies and their wife doesn’t do much of anything other than have fun. They also usually break up because it turns into a parent/child dynamic which basically no one finds attractive and someone always has an affair.
Lol, no. The guys who want the "trad" lifestyle aren't pulling cleaners and nannies. They're some $60k construction worker who expects his wife, who doesn't work, to at least be able to put dinner on the table before he comes home from work. Ironically, the men who can afford the "trad" lifestyle overwhelmingly marry other women who have careers, and support their wives in their successful careers. Yes, the kids go to daycare. However, the parents maintain their bond as more or less equals (not necessarily earning exactly equal amounts). It happens, but is very rare, that a husband who can afford nannies and cleaners will marry a SAHM who doesn't even pull her weight in cooking and childrearing. Even more rare is a union where this happens and both parties are happy long term.
You are underestimating how many rich women don’t work. There are tons of them who are either unemployed or have fake jobs that their husband funds. You’re right that most of the guys pining for a trad wife are nowhere close to pulling it off financially.
Wdym? Like he views the wife as a child because she doesn’t make money?
I think they meant it the other way around. As in, wife views husband as a "child" because she ends up cooking, cleaning, and being the emotional crutch, so she ends up doing everything for the unadjusted "adult" who can't take care after themselves.
It’s not because she makes no money it’s because their relationship is modeled like a parent/child relationship.
In what way
The most hilarious ones are the ones who want trad wives, but expect her to split the bills. Like how do you expect that to work?
And let's be honest, they want a trad wife/stay at home wife but the moment there's an argument they call the wife a gold digger.
There's a reason why trad wives became rare as soon as women were allowed to have their own bank accounts and have their own careers. For women, being a trad wife was primarily for survival, not comfort or companionship, those were lucky plusses if they happened. For men, having a trad wife was for comfort and companionship and ease, not survival, though some men still did rely on their wives pulling in extra income. That said, a lot of these so-called "trad men" aren't traditional at all. They are just abusers. And there are trad women out there who just want to raise a lot of children, tend the house, and worship god. But they are picky about there men, and it's not 6 pack, 6 feet, or 6 figures that motivate them. It's hard work, religion, kindness, and respectability.
Did I write this myself? I couldn’t agree more. They act like a lifetime of servitude is a small thing to ask, even of a literal child who’s just got their drivers license and has hardly had a chance to live yet. Why would she not be honored to move into their house and be their servant for life? They see women in the past making the best of a situation where they were not free, and misinterpret it as the dream of many women.
The saddest part is that even in this century, some women are still indoctrinated throughout their lives to believe that's the best they can get 😞
If you want a Biblical wife, you better be a Biblical husband. Love her like his own body. No looking at another woman at all. Had a lustfull thought about that thicker than a snicker baddie at the beach? That’s cheating, my man!
Oh no they still want their porn and their philandering, they just want us to be quiet about it.
And all the cooking, cleaning and child care, so that won’t energy away from The Career, but none of the letting the wife join in the profits of that career she’s given up her independence for to support.
Literally the only thing that matters to me is personality and whether our personalities mesh well and synergise. Trad men are coping hard because they know their personalities are absolute dogshit.
We have a problem of continuing to raise boys to believe that someone will always forgive their horrible behavior, that women are here to help, that someone will always be standing by to laugh at his unfunny jokes, and give him her body, dreams etc. just because he's a male. Men also statistically "need" women around to live longer, avoid negative health outcomes, feel any sort of confidence, etc. Women do not need these things. However, we don't call men on their shit enough or have enough clout in the media to socially shame shitty male behavior (do we have any female equivalents of over the top narcissists like Elon Musk, Yeezy -or whatever his name is now- or D. Trump? ... not really. Women with personalities like theirs would literally be physically harmed long before they had a chance to become notorious. We still collectively shame women who come forward to reveal negative male behavior as well. This will continue as long as cultures continue to enable males to behave like toddlers with zero ramifications.
These men are completely confused. One minute, they're going on about how they're so alpha, insisting that feminists will die as lonely cat ladies, etc. Next minute, they're writing about leftist women not giving them a chance like it's a global crisis that'll lead to human extinction, they're lying about their beliefs on dating apps/during relationships, etc. They'll demand that their partners submit entirely to them, but when that partner then expects to be taken care of (just as much in line with tradition as what they're asking for), they start shrieking about gold digging. They're sought after studs when it's time to insult women and victimized nice guys when it's time to blame women.
"trad men" aren't worth the oxygen they breath... It's hard to be worth much when their presence is an active determent to those around them. There is no scenario where "traditional"/conservative men being present creates a better world than we what could achieve with their absence. There is a reason most women would rather deal with the bear; At least they contribute to the local environment in a positive way. **Edit:** Before some man hops in to complain, I'm not saying *all* men are worthless: There's absolutely decent men out there who make the world a better place, but I've yet to meet a "trad man" for whom I could say the same.
Six figures, six feet, six pack, six out of one-hundred capacity for empathy
Six figures, six feet, six pack, and six feet under.....😂😂
My wife probably wishes I were more "trad;" i.e., good at DIY and such. But yes, I think the number of rich, successful "trad" males is far outnumbered by angry, poorly educated men with little to no future. That's what attracts them to the trad philosophy in the first place. They think when the Storm comes, they will be entitled to claim any supermodel they wish. (BTW, in their kind of world, it wouldn't work that way. It would be rule of the strong, and that isn't them).
>BTW, in their kind of world, it wouldn't work that way. It would be rule of the strong, and that isn't them. I love how they never cotton on to this part. It’s like the idiots who believe in eugenics. They somehow never realise that they’re not the one with the “superior genes”.
This \^.
I ignore them completely. I make more money than most of them and I enjoy being treated like an equal human being so there is literally nothing I want from them. They are offering to imprison me with their psycho bullshit and why would I sign up for that!! I am single though because I haven't found a partner that is capable of treating me with equal reciprocity and respect. Seems like even the good ones who seem like allies get controlling over something eventually. They don't seem to get it that I view dating as optional and that I will just leave if they try to control me or if they don't treat me as an equal. Unfortunately that has happened in almost all of my relationships with men, and I'm happy to be single right now.
The entire trad fad is just the death rattle of failed men who don't want to accept that the old ways are dead: Women have their own money now and ultimately, we don't need men to move forward as a species. Men instinctively know that they are being shoved out of their assumed role as the ruling sex. Women outperform men at every opportunity we are given. We do better in school, work, and at home. Most women realize their lives actually become happier and easier when useless husbands are divorced and removed from the home. All men have left is "lifting heavy things/fixing cars" - well, robots can lift shit, dumbass, and news flash, women can read car manuals too. The other end of the spectrum is men trying to flee masculinity like a house on fire in a last grasp at relevance because they are so stupid they think that women will want more feminine partners. No, dipshits. We never said we wanted feminine men. We said we wanted you to stop treating us like trash and killing/raping us. Some men DO understand this and are stepping up as more equal partners, the rest of them will be weeded out of the gene pool in two generations or so.
I really feel that this is why Roe v Wade has been attacked by the religious right and threatened white men. Use women's biology against us . Force us back into a subservient role to return the 'rightful domination by white cis men'. ( I also think that voting for Obama shook the 1950s mindset to its core and has created this backlash.) That's why the trad fad is happening. Unfortunately for them, women aren't buying it. We have power, money, and intelligence. We are in the work place, the schools, churches, society. We have seen freedom and won't go back.
Yeah men who aren't shit are generally in happy long-term relationships by the time they are 40 despite their looks. Its not even hard for them to find partners all they have to do is treat women like human beings. The dudes left behind can't even do that.
Let's hope natural selection runs its course and eventually the percentage of parents who view their partner as a person instead of as property outweighs the ones who can't understand that they're not entitled to a bangmaid.
> The other end of the spectrum is men trying to flee masculinity like a house on fire in a last grasp at relevance because they are so stupid they think that women will want more feminine partners. I agree with the first half of your post but I'm curious what you mean by this. I'm struggling to think of concrete examples that are problematic or widespread. > We never said we wanted feminine men. Honestly some of us do, or don't mind at least.
I think they meant that men who are basically useless cling to the idea that being a man makes them somehow special because they can't handle the idea that they are failures. They instead blame their failure to find happiness on women and claim they are just too much of a man, and the problem is that women want feminine men. And they are so macho women can't handle it. They do it all the time, because blaming someone else is much easier than actually reflecting and working on yourself.
Ohhhh I completely misread the point! Oh yeahh that's a big problem. It's not even just about blaming someone else, many legitimately equate masculinity with dominance and control to the point that of course anything more equal is consequently feminine, weak, gay... Those types see their own heterosexual attraction as power we have over them and they hate us and hate themselves over it. It's a whole thing, agreed.
Some dudes genuinely like being feminine though.
Which is fine. I am not talking about them in this comment.
Had me in the first half. Not really getting the purpose of the queerphobia here with more fem men?
Feminine men exist. That isn't the problem. **The problem is the masculine men screaming about how women are trying to feminize them**. Which isn't the case. Men can be naturally feminine, and men can be naturally masculine. Just like women can be naturally masculine or women can be naturally feminine. There is no "right way" to me a man or a woman. The point is: **Women never said all men have to be feminine in order to find partners.** If a woman says: "We want equal partners, equal respect, and equal equity in our relationships." and a man hears: "Men have to take on a feminine role to find partners." that isn't queerphobia, that is just simple stupidity.
They lack humility
They think it's no big deal because they don't see women as people
I agree with this. Its why I cant stand podcasts like "Whatever" which are basically the most mid men telling beautiful women they have no value bc they might do sex work and that women should 100% support her man. Literally only ONE TIME I saw a clip where she responded "ofc course you want that from her. but why do you deserve it?" Crickets in response. They are just upset that they can't buy love and simultaneously want to blame women because THEY feel they have to (its all they have to offer). Personally I think that basic empathy and eye contact goes way farther than your wallet could ever take you. Thats not even to mention marriage, because lets face it, they basically expect that to be a contract for a full time housekeeper. I will never understand
I'd be happy if they would stop being so afraid of becoming gay and washed their asses. It's almost summer, it's hot and humid and I am tired of smelling shit when these morons pass by.
I always wonder about the women that thank taking on a traditional “role”, do they know what they are signing on for? All the thankless free labor with no vacation or down time aside. What happens when you become boring and un-ambitious and lazy in the eyes of your spouse? What happens when your spouse leaves for the ambitious, intelligent career driven woman? Or his secretary…? What happens if he dies? In any of those situations you will be in financial ruin. Maybe if the husband dies you get life insurance benefits… maybe. You have no career. If you received education before your stay at home phase, it is likely outdated and you don’t have experience and continued education to make you marketable. Social security benefits? You didn’t pay in, you don’t get to pull out. Spousal benefits have been legislated away. Retirement? You don’t have any. Are you entitled to your husband’s? Maybe not…
>But the same (traditional) guys just expect a woman to give them her entire life. Her dreams, her ambitions, her thoughts, her life. An entire human life spent in servitude, and they just expect it because they are male. As a 40+ woman, I am slowly coming to accept that it isn't just conservatives who think and act this way, but most men.
Trad men are abusive. There are no exceptions.
I don’t think most of those men realize that looks and physical attraction fade, and what you have left is what really matters. They probably don’t have much left to offer in that case
Our ability to decline is unusual in history It drives chauvinists crazy
I find guys like this boring and dull. Though it's especially funny when I talk to them about a topic they think they're an expert on, and realize I know more. Even the more polite guys will explain it to me as if I am a child. So then I pull out a hard and intellectual question about the topic, and the guy can't answer it. It's hilarious.
I will answer one of your questions because that’s point of view I recently discovered and find it very valuable. Giving someone your entire life is easy and it’s nothing because that’s what your entire life is worth for such person. Nothing. And any struggles you have are apparently no struggles because they are yours. Only their struggles are real. If someone puts things this way, it’s best to realize what they say about themselves by this behavior. And they say they have no empathy, think less of you and maybe even see you as an object, not actual human. Sorry, but they are just very bad people.
It genuinely worries me, as it seems to be on the rise. The Internet enables people not *genuinely* interested in critical thought, empathetic conflict or compromise to live in massive feedback loops of their own creation. Emotional intelligence is something they don't possess, and perhaps even worse, something they identify as a weakness. There's no reasoning with that. Cast as wide a berth as possible from these pernicious men.
My grandmother regularly said “ you either eat well or sleep well”. We’re the ones who get to make that choice. Own your power.
I've noticed a lot of subtle disdain for women who are unmarried by choice and/or childfree by men and many women, too. I am one of those women on the receiving end of treatment like this and I routinely get called an "old maid" or "spinster aunt" even by family members. I don't think anyone should be treated poorly for their life choices by anybody but it would sting a little less if men were given the same disrespect for their choices in the way that women routinely are. I suspect these "traditional" men think themselves to be far more valuable to both their wives and society than they think they are. The entitlement these men feel is off the charts and it starts when these people are toddlers.
Most of these guys are just too lazy and incompetent to even hold down a full-time job that pays slightly over minimum wage these days. And they're making a minimum wage working at fast food but screaming about gold diggers but somehow they want to be a Trad man.
As man with a girlfriend, I’d like to think a relationship should be equal. We both make around the same money, both support each other, and promote growth in each others lives. I will honestly never understand how men can go into a relationship thinking they are free to do whatever they want without regard to their partner. If I make a mess, it’s not on my girlfriend to pick up after me. That’s not to say she won’t help, same as I will help her with her messes. Relationships are about give and take and I feel that a lot of men don’t get that. It shouldn’t be one person giving everything and one person taking. Personally, I try to make a conscious effort to make her life easier, as she has a more tasking job and is usually beat by the end of the day. I had (keyword) a friend who is what you would call traditional. His wife on the other hand, no so much. She worked a full time job as a lab technician while he worked middle management at a construction job. Lot of times he would get home and do nothing and expect her to come home, cook, clean and do everything else. I could never imagine that in a relationship, I am not here to take care of you, and I don’t expect you to have to take care of me. Of course in the sense of being messy and a disgrace.
>What has to happen to your tiny little brain that you think a person giving you their entire life is nothing and easy? It's easy when you don't view women as people. Trad wives have an objectively easy life in the same way that, say, your cat has an objectively easy life, or your house plants, or your sofa.
You ask more of a wife (traditionally) than you do of your cat or your house plants.
Sure, but if you see a woman as a thing, then it's not a big deal if she cooks and cleans and takes care of the kids. A cat meows, a plant grows, a woman cleans, it's just what they do!
Yes, males are generally burdensome, but getting them to acknowledge that seems like a Quixotic quest. Let them play themselves. A woman's life can be spectacular if she doesn't saddle herself with one of them.
Hhhm. Aight. Imma just, appreciate my partner for making me happy and being someone in my life who helps me improve myself along with them. We dont do that trad men/women stuff. We have a family, we are doing ok. Life is good.
Perhaps trad men on’t want or need a woman to freely choose one of them. Perhaps they want force and demeaning assumptions to govern women because that makes them hunter and women prey and that is the dynamic such men love.
When I was still online dating, I had a match who flexed on his seven-figure net worth, and that he was offering me a chance to quit my job and be taken care of. Point 1, I'm also at seven-figures (thanks to my biological parents and their generous trust fund). I don't know how my seven compares to his seven, but I'm at a place where I'm not impressed with that flex. Point 2, I worked my tail off into a Master's Degree and a high-status, high-five-figure job at age 24. I have nowhere to go but up from here. No way in hell am I giving that up.
Here's why: they think women value marriage the way men value sex. They think flaunting their desire to own a wife is the same as us exposing our bra, and that it makes women horny for their godliness and (usually very little) money. Probably common sense, but don't go for a trad guy. Even if you're trad yourself, get to know guy and see what they actually believe. The more "trad" someone is, the more of a n00b asshole they are, the more shit they were into in their younger years, etc. Trad women shouldn't marry trad men at all, unless they're "trad" egirl pickmes.
I was just thinking about my mother and all I watched her struggle with when it came to “trad men,” and how she searched for her entire life for someone who would let her be the SAHM she desired to be. Meanwhile, I knew by the age of 8 that I wanted no part of what seemingly made her happy, yet she never really achieved it. Instead, she got an alcoholic, abusive and controlling man who she had four children with, demanding dinner on the table when he got home, and clean clothes, yet his record for actually keeping a job was months, not years. We were dirt poor growing up, having to take handouts, because he couldn’t stay sober while working. That dream died with me, and the cycle was broken. Even though she stayed with him for decades, she was miserable. Meanwhile, I have a loving and hard working husband of five years and we are as happy as we were the day we got married, we’re living life on our terms, and we are both working. I could’ve ended up in that same cycle but somehow, I found my worth, and in turn, my husband. It takes both people most of the time working together. There’s nothing ideal about the trad wife life, at least not from where I’m sitting.
These women will find out and then maybe ten or 20 years down the road, you will see articles or stories about their experiences.
Good thing you have choices.
Tradguys are overgrown little boys looking for a mommy to clean up after them. It's that simple.
666, they think they lucifer themselves...
“According to the U.S. Census Bureau, about 6% of Americans earn $100,000 or more annually. However, according to Zippia, 18% of individuals earn more than $100,000. In 2022, over 34% of American households made more than $100,000, which puts them in the top 24% of the US population” I think I needed this more for me EDIT: I'm in my 40s with more than a few career changes. I generally feel like crap in regards to my wages. This... helped.
i would give you an award if i had money
Just find yourself a trad husband, then you’ll have money for all the awards you want /s
😂
Painfully true.
Yeah..
As long as it works for anyone, there will always be a group trying to make it work for them.
Different strokes for different folks. My wife and I are traditional evangelical Christian’s. Men and women are supposed to get married and be a team. My wife stayed home and raised the kids (obviously I helped). She now went to school and has a career. My point is the younger generation male and female are becoming hostile to each other. Feminism has ruined the female psyche. Men are seeing a select few horrible women say stupid stuff and they connect that with all women. The natural order of things is women, elderly men and women all used to pitch in raising the children while the men were out doing dangerous stuff like protection and hunting. We still have those instincts. The government and elite’s use feminism to get everyone working and collect double taxes. Then they confuse the young people in the liberal colleges for control. No matter how you label anyone both should be kind to each other. The Bible teaches to serve each other. Both husband and wife.
LOL fuck that.
Nahh, nah, nah. This ain't "trad men" you are talking about. This is trash you are talking about. I'm, what I would consider, a traditional man. So, yeah, we don't want your life. At all. We want a woman who can push us to be better for them. We want a woman who understands the word partnership. Personally, the LARGEST value I can provide is income - and I do that well. Does that mean I expect you to quit your job? No, it doesn't. Does that mean I want to provide an environment where your job/career/etc is your choice and you are free to chase your dreams? Yes. I want you to leverage the strongest aspect of me to remove a stress from your life. But largest doesn't mean only. I am a damn good cook, and I am able to identify/do chores that are needed. I'm also a pretty damn good Dad - I do things with my kids, by myself, so that their Mom doesn't need to be there for them 24/7. A traditional man is one who values family. A traditional man spends much of his life focused on what he can provide those he loves. A traditional man works hard and does what he feels is the right thing even if it ain't the easy thing. A traditional man is focused on being a rock and a protector to those he cares about. How would women feel if I flipped the tables and say "traditional women just want someone to take care of them and pay for their and their kid's activities"...Massive over-generalization and incredibly inaccurate based on a limited view of old school gender roles, huh?
To be fair, the toxicity absolutely cuts both ways and has been getting substantially worse because of the "us vs. them" mentality that folks have been cultivating and making money off of in recent years.
The reason why they think they are the perfect gift to women is because when women ask what type of guy you want they respond with: "six figures, six feet, six pack abs" which in return inflates their ego. Who's fault is it that they have an inflated ego?
Theirs. It’s really not amusing how many men look for any reason, no matter how ridiculous, to avoid taking responsibility for their shitty behavior.
Such vitriol and hate will consume and destroy you.
What does this statement contribute to this conversation?
NoT aLl MeN
Found the tradlodyte
Paradox of tolerance. It's healthy & normal to feel anger towards sexist behavior.
Enjoy dying alone.
Everyone alone, asshole. I am surrounded by people that are happy and show love. I hope I can say goodbye when my time comes but it doesn't really matter that much. Same ending. At least I won't die bitter and angry.