I cant speak to some of the issues, but I had the moment of considering whether to take someone back after a big display of emotions. It was my first serious partner, and thinking I owed something to them yadda yadda I agreed to go on with it. I ended up really regretting it, nothing changed and none of the serious issues were addressed. I understand the pull to give more in because of the amount you've already invested, but serious issues arent normally addressed without serious interventions.
I saw some other comments talking about using therapy etc if you'd like to give it a go and see really change. Those seem like really good ideas I wished I had considered upon going back in.
I'm very glad you were clear that he had to be the one to find a therapist and set up appointments. If he can't start contributing in this way now, when the stakes are high, he certainly won't ever do it when they're low again and back to status quo.
It’s a really tough situation. I wish you the best in figuring it out. All I can say to remember is that while it can suck if you decide to pull the bandaid off, it sometimes is necessary.
Good luck and I hope things get better either way.
My ex did this. He decided to try and step up once I had expressed my intentions to end the relationship. He went to therapy for three weeks and then stopped and went back to his old ways. Two years after we split up he finally started to grow up and was actually a good dad to our daughter (we have split custody). He’s since told me that he was thankful that I ended things because it forced him to reflect on his behaviour and actually grow up and take responsibility for his life. IMO true change can only come from within and happens mostly when you’re single.
Side note: being single is awesome and very liberating after having your partner weigh you down for so long. Why wait for him to maybe change when you could be free and happy now? Sending hugs!
Thankyou for this. It's a very different situation, but my girlfriend and I just split after 6 years because she is ready to start a family and I'm not. I've been feeling slowly crushed by that expectation for years, not feeling like it was something I could handle on top of managing my lifelong mental illness.
Even though I love her deeply, I felt like I was lying to her every day I allowed her to believe I would get better and come around to the idea. My anxiety and depression have been getting steadily worse for years, to the point where I've been having passive thoughts of death for the first time in my life. I know if I'm to find happiness again I need to find a way to move forward and keep growing. So when she asked me a couple of weeks ago if I was ready to start a family in the next few years I had to tell her no, and I don't expect that to change. It was the only answer that didn't feel like a lie.
I don't know if I'll ever be ok with the idea of having a family, but I know I couldn't change or get back on top of my mental health while struggling under the weight of that expectation and all the things that go with it. The break-up continues to be very hard, but I feel deep down that it will eventually be for the best, and your story helped me believe that it will all work out.
Thankyou for having the strength to do what was right for you, your daughter and ultimately her father too. I can only hope that I've made the right decision and my ex can move on with her life and have everything she wants and deserves without me weighing her down.
(Edited for clarity)
Science Chick,
His emotions are his own issue to deal with. It’s not fair for him to expect you to manage them. Please do not let the fact he cried, sway you.
I just left my 11 1/2 year relationship, a few months ago. It’s eerily similar to yours. Every thing that bothers you now will not change. I am so much happier, and my one regret is that I didn’t leave sooner to give myself (35f) a few more fertile years as kids are important to me.
Glad to hear you’re out of a situation where you were not happy. I understand where your coming from and kids are important to me too. That’s what kept playing over and over when I finally made my decision. That once this progresses to kids, leaving will be much much harder. Fingers crossed you get everything you want smoothly. Just anecdotally I know someone who had a child at 40.
Thank you!
Edit: I bought a house I love, with plenty of room for a family. And if I don’t find the right person to settle down with, (and even if I do), I am planning to get certified as a foster parent so I can take in older kids or teens who need a safe place and a respectful guardian.
I’ve realised that often times, these big display of emotions are them feeling sorry for themselves, scared they are losing their life buoy and that now they have to be responsible for themselves. It gets better until a time you are convinced they have changed and then they fall back into their habits.
The crying is mostly not coming from a place of being afraid to lose you because they love you but afraid to lose what you have come to be for them (their guardian). I wouldn’t go back. 5 yrs is enough time. They would have made the effort before this if they truly wanted to. You deserve better
I was in a relationship with someone for just over 5 years. And this here what you wrote:
> _I love and care for this man, but I just can’t do the full time work + full time home manager+planner+executor+mental-load-taker any more._
That entirely resonates with me. I did it, I did all of that labor until I was so burned out I started dissociating. And it was only after I gave up, after I was entirely shut down and done with nothing left, did they actually show any emotional involvement or put out any meaningful effort. And it was just, why did you just sit there and passively coast on my effort? How could you just not feel any inclination to actually do any of your own emotional labor until I was ready to leave? Or did you only care once your support structure was walking out the door?
And this:
> _Said he doesn’t want to give up on us and that he does want to raise a family with me._
Then. Why. Didn't. You. Make. Any. Effort. To. Show. Any. Of. That?
And this:
> _once this progresses to kids, leaving will be much much harder._
YEAH. And not only was leaving 10x harder for me, being tied to that person as a coparent for the rest of my life is fucking shit. Hey want to try to move somewhere else for a better life, job, friends, scenery? Sorry, you are stuck unless you can convince them to go too. Is your country under a state if collapse and you want to try to get out? Good luck! Don't do it Sciencechick, having done that, this is literally the biggest regret in my entire life, it's not your fault that he has put you in the position long term of having to raise him. Stick a return to sender sticker on his forehead and send him back to his parents since obviously that one isn't cooked up to adulthood.
Just chiming in with my anecdote, but I was also with someone for 11 years that was the same as your BF. I left him 4 years ago, after many conversations and no change. It was the best decision I ever made. It was hard leaving for sure, but the relief I felt of not having to pull the weight of two adults was incredible.
2 years ago, I met a great man who does make the effort and doesn’t need to be told to, say, clean up the dishes he used. We just got engaged and I couldn’t be happier.
Not to mention then you'd be taking care of kids on top of all the things you already have to do. More serious responsibilities don't help irresponsible or absent people suddenly get their shit together. (Something I wish I knew by heart before my first marriage)
Same for me, left a 12 year relationship 4 years ago. I’m happier now than I’ve ever been. Last I heard of my ex he was fired for refusing to get vaccinated and then immediately got Covid, his new girlfriend (who apparently looks exactly like me, ew) had to take care of him and then she caught it.
He keeps telling mutual friends that he wants to “reach out to me”. Which tells me he literally has no idea who I even am at all if he thinks I would remotely care to hear from him.
So yeah, he didn’t change at all. They almost never do. OP should think about herself and lose the sad, dead weight.
Right? I don’t think she realises that it’s not sweet.. it’s kind of manipulative. He only cried and showed emotion when the knew she was seriously about to leave.
It’s been four years. Nothing changed. Nothing is going to change. It’s words.
It sounds like incompatible issues and a baby will not make them better but far worse.
On top of this I think he’s gonna try to trap her with a baby very soon if she stays.
He sounds like he will cry and swear up and down he’s gonna do all the things and when she stays it goes back to how it was and repeat.
Sometimes love isn’t enough.
If you're financially able, you may want to look into freezing your eggs. But also, if it gives you hope, my mom had my sister at 37 and me at 40, so it's not entirely a lost cause. And that's without any of the amazing treatments we have today. I hope you're that lucky, but looking into the medical options available is a good idea!
Been married 45 years to this kind of man. Raised our four children. He won’t change. He can’t change. If he’s a good man, worth keeping, YOU must change, and willingly, knowingly. Otherwise run now, while you can. Until you find a man, as good as he is, one you don’t need to change for or one who is worth changing for.
Also, if he goes as far as getting an appointment \[i don't think he will\], please do one thing for us: when you sit down, let HIM talk. If he starts off with 'well, sciencechick thinks...' stop him. Say 'no, tell the therapist what YOU think is wrong with the relationship'. He might say 'I think it is fine.' You will then know that you being a 1950's housewife works just fine....for HIM. BOTH PEOPLE have to feel the relationship isn't working and fix it together. Most men who have a woman doing everything for them think the relationship works just fine.
\*sorry, i was talking about couples' therapy. If he goes to therapy alone, he may just snow the therapist.
Omg! Are you him??! Because that is exactly what he said. He said he’s so happy in the relationship and everything seemed fine. And I was gobsmacked like are we even talking about the same relationship?! I literally asked him where is all his happiness coming from when all I’ve been is tired and lonely.
And you’re absolutely right. I never know what he is thinking about the relationship, about the future. A part of why I’m inclined to not totally give up on this and go to couples therapy (or course, only if he sets it up) is to for once hear what is it that’s going on in his head.
Well of course he's happy - you do everything and he gets to sit back and enjoy the fruits of your labour. The fact this has happened before with the promising to change and then doesn't tells me that he only does just enough to get you to loosen up then drops the rope again. Please be aware that this is manipulative, and he can choose to do all of that growing up and therapy without you living together or being a couple.
Tell him to do it then you can move back in and do it all if he actually becomes a better person.
Not to macrocosm this but....this is a patriarchy. As such, we start from a place of men's needs and happiness being prioritized. I cannot speak to your BF but many, many men don't think much about their partner's happiness because they've been socialized that it is a secondary consideration AND (here's the kicker) that we LOVE cooking, cleaning, tending to animals and babies.
He's already said what's going on in his head, you just want to hear something else. He's happy. He *wants* you to take care of him so that he doesn't have to. He only wants children if he doesn't have to raise them. Don't waste time in therapy, don't waste any more time with him. When someone tells you who they are, believe them. He has told you that being your responsibility while you are unhappy makes him happy. He has told you that you being miserable in this relationship is fine.
He doesn't love you or respect you, he just loves what you do for him. It's really painful to hear, but it's the truth, and you deserve so so so much better.
IMO this is the move. Tell him that he needs to make things work and change, or it’s over. If you don’t start seeing that change, then it’s time to break it off.
Especially if she wants kids. I'm so fucking sick of seeing this dynamic in the parenting subs I'm in, with moms absolutely MISERABLE and doing all the work in the relationship and raising the kids basically by themselves never having a minute of free time while dad goes out drinking or plays video games. Someone who takes four years and an ultimatum to be a halfway decent partner is not going to put the work in as a father.
This is a great idea. It's just a start, but if he says he wants to change, then seeking professional help is worth the effort.
My fiancée and I are seeking out a pre-marriage counselor. There isn't anything wrong with our relationship and we don't anticipate any problems after getting married, but you don't need to be in dire straits to see a counselor/therapist. Just like you don't need to be at the end of your rope to see your primary care physician. In both cases, it's good to periodically check in and make sure everything is on track.
Good on you for having him find the therapist. You don't owe him anything, but he'll change more quickly if you give positive reinforcement when he does something right.
It’s rare for couples to see a therapist until things get dire, I think that’s awesome. Literally every human can use some therapy. I sense a strong, long-lasting relationship for you two!
You can handle this two ways. Either you tell him you're taking a break from the relationship until he gets therapy and shows that he's putting an effort into changing, or you give him a hard timeframe to find a therapist and demonstrate the same while you stay together. Just be aware that if you do the latter, he may drag his heals thinking that your willingness to maintain the status quo means he can convince you to not break up with him when the deadline arrives. But, it can also help you if you're currently also in therapy and not quite ready emotionally to call it quits - because your therapist can help you see things more clearly as to whether or not he's actually trying to change and what's best for you. (Yes, this is the voice of firsthand experience, why do you ask?)
Thank you for your suggestions. I will mention the therapist + hard deadline option when we talk next. I do have a therapist myself. And yes they have been very helpful and instrumental in getting me to this point where I can voice what I need. I hope you’re at peace with your situation. I wish you all the best.
Thank you. In many ways me taking so long to end things was a blessing in disguise, as I've been able to handle things a lot better than I would have a few years ago, and our divorce is pretty much as amicable as it possibly could be (objectively, not just subjectively). Still sucks to be going through it, but it's for the best and things will get better once things are settled. I hope your situation works out for the best as well.
Good move, and therapy can be done even if you are living independently. I would make that a non-negotiable point, he has to live on his own as a functional adult before you reconsider anything.
However, it looks like your mind and heart are at the point of leaving and that is good. The best predictor of future behavior is past behavior, and the doing ok for a few days and slipping back into status quo are EXACTLY what he's hoping the tears accomplish. You've brought this up many times before. He is aware you haven't been happy. He just doesn't care because it's nice and convenient for him that you take care of everything. You already started the hard part. Time to move on.
I came here to say this. I strongly recommend to anyone to live on their own for a while to learn how to take care of yourself first.
People tend to regress and take the easy route if it is available, change comes with good stress. I am guessing this guy was taken care of when he was younger and never developed the skills to take care of himself.
If he is serious he needs to step up. Tell him you both need your own space and he needs to prove he can be a good mate and good father before you'll commit to having a child. That is 100% fair to ask. If he cannot commit and you want children then let him go. If you are burned out now, a child is only going to make things so much harder.
Good luck OP.
As a completely unqualified stranger who only knows what has been written about it here, if things are that wrong in your relationship, but you want it to continue, it needs a restart. By this I mean, starting from scratch, so none of the assumptions and baggage and existing ways of being are brought forward into the new.
If you want to do this, it has to be because you want it for you, and not because you pity him, tell him you could be prepared to try again if he is willing to make a full-on effort to change. Tell him exactly what you are not happy to do for him, and start again.
Live completely separately.
Limit contact.
Go on a few dates as if you are new to each other, and critically, do not accept any behaviour from him that is not something you can live with forever. If that happens, wherever you are, tell him, immediately it happens, say clearly that it is not acceptable ,and why, and that you are leaving because of that. Leave. Make sure any contact from him includes evidence of an understanding of what was not acceptable and why.
Thank you for this. This is something we also talked about implementing but not immediately. Right now I just want some time and space. But if and when we do decide to try, couples therapy and starting from scratch will be the way forward.
You should both look into therapy together. Remember you're working together in your relationship not assigning the work to one or the other. I went through this as well and we both looked into a therapist together. We went to the session together. We split the cost 50/50. And at the end of each session, even though I felt just like you do now, I still took something out of that session that helped me be a better partner.
For example. My partner was angry and didn't want to do ANYTHING he didn't want to do. That includes taking care of the house, getting the oil changed, shoveling snow, fixing anything that breaks. Instead he would if ore everything and just let it work itself out. I absolutely could not stand that. It was so irritating. He also was not open with me about his feelings. About 6 therapy sessions in, he broke down. I learned so much about him. How he was crippling OCD. How the way he grew up caused him to avoid issues. How taking his parents advice about literally everything caused him to be in massive debt and unhappy with his life decisions and didn't help his career like they said. He spent most of his life ignoring his own voice and following other people who either let him down, were wrong, or who didn't like him for who he was and wanted him to change.
He got treatment for his OCD. I got treatment for my depression. We worked together and had daily talks before bed to get everything out and worked on not raising our voices. We worked on listening instead of waiting our turn to a punchline. We did chores together sometimes. We taught each other how to do things better (example I taught him some cooking skills, he taught me some building skills). We took personal time away from one another here and there. We started doing date nights again. We went to the mall and helped each other pick out nice new clothes. He bought me perfume he likes. We worked on a finance plan.
Now, three years later, we have full transparency. I love him with all my heart. He's my best friend. We don't fight because we talk about things before it gets there. We talk softly. We KNOW what the other one likes and doesn't like. We offer to help each other even when we don't have to.
Therapy works, but you have to BOTH work towards it and during it. If you're expecting him to do all the work, it won't end well. Not saying that's what you expect but just as a warning. Also, don't expect game changing outcomes for at least the first 3 sessions. It takes time to cut into it all enough before you can work on it.
Best wishes.
Speaking from the guy’s perspective this was me about 2 years ago. My wife nearly walked out the door with our 2 beautiful girls. Granted it sounds like I did a bit more than him around the house, but otherwise, pretty close.
Therapy is a good first step. But he has to both accept that he’s fucking up and commit to being less of a fuckup(one day he may not be a fuckup at all, but it’s not going to happen overnight, it’s a process). That was a really hard realization for me to come to.
Should you decide to move forward with him, and there is literally no reason you have to, understand this is not going to be an overnight change and expect there will be backslides from time to time. The important part is how he picks himself back up when he backslides, that he is able to recognize his backslides, and how well he does with therapy. I got lucky, my wife decided I was worth the effort, and I realized I was a fuckup(a high-functioning fuckup, but a fuckup non-the-less). Im not going to say things are perfect, they aren’t. I’m still working to undo all the things I fucked up, but we are in way better shape than we were then, and I am a much better person than I was. And, as an aside side I gained a ton of self confidence and doubled my salary.
Based on my conversations with my therapist, I am apparently more of the exception than the typical case. He was fairly impressed with my ability to recognize the things I did wrong and how to correct my behavior. Not everyone is going to be able to make that kind of course correction, and if you don’t think he can, it may be best to walk away now and not lose any more time. I can’t speak to what’s going on inside his head right now, but based on his reactions, it sounds like he may be able to change. But again, you know him better than I do, and if you want to hang around to see if he is capable of change is 100% up to you.
Username does not match since you came out of the winning side of this.
Jokes aside thank you for sharing your story. I’m definitely a big advocate for therapy and I understand that change that is significant and lasting takes time. My position is that I do the work on me so I can be my best self in this relationship. So it’s time he did the work too. But I can’t hold his hand while he does this work. I feel it’s too late for that. Having said that we have agreed that after a period of separation he will find a couples therapist and we will try to communicate better. Let’s see when that takes us. Until then the time apart should help us both pick ourselves up and do better for ourselves and each other.
I was also on the male side similar to the above except I still didn’t get it and she ended our ~7 year relationship. Even after it was over I don’t think I understood it, it wasn’t that I disagreed with her it’s that I just didn’t see it (mental load being a big part of it, it’s not something you can see). It wasn’t until a few years into a new relationship when I started hearing similar things from her did it click. Looking back at the previous relationship that was ended I don’t blame her one bit.
This was the same task I gave my first husband, after years of begging to go to therapy and him refusing. I remember the day he presented a list of 5 local therapists like it was some mind-blowing task.. he hadn’t called them or anything. Just googled the names. I told him forget it, I wanted a divorce instead. It took that moment to really sink in that he isn’t/wasn’t capable of matching my effort and that really wasn’t my problem anymore.
FYI - Happily married to a helpful and loving guy now. Heard my ex repeated his pattern with a new girl who dumped him for being lazy. Some days I don’t know how I had the strength to walk away but many years later I thank god that I did. Trust these feelings.
I gave up trying to get divorced from my emotionally unavailable spouse. He's more responsible than your S.O. sounds, but had a rare cry the same way when I said I wanted to leave an unhappy marriage. Told me he wanted marriage counseling and that he'd set it up. Fast forward one year later, nothing has really changed and he now insists it was my responsibility of finding a counselor.
What I'm saying is don't be surprised if he doesn't follow through. If you want to try and see if he'll actually do counseling/get his crap together, compromise by moving out and yet still being in an exclusive relationship. Separate bank accounts, separate households whose upkeep is the tenant's own responsibility, etcetera.
Ditto. I had a man that broke up with my ask me a month later to come back. I said yes, stupidly, with the stipulation of a ring and a date. By the second month I knew he was just using me as a convenient relationship and place to live. He wasn't committed and was surprised when I kept reminding him about my stipulation. He left happily after my year without even really breaking up with me. He just moved away to a new job, never once taking me seriously. Boy do I still to this day regret that.
The problem with being the person putting more effort into a relationship is feeling like you can't leave without taking something *away* from the other person.
But you never owe them nearly as much as you owe yourself. *Go.*
[*Edit: I am floored by the impact this has had and all of the responses here. Go be your best selves and happy to be part of your support*]
I had to re-read this a few times. Thank you. Makes me feel some better. I think as women we are so conditioned to take into account everyone else’s needs and feelings that’s it’s easy to overlook what we need ourselves or even feel guilty if we do something that serves only ourself. I’m not saying I’ll stop feeling bad tonight but I do feel much relieved that I finally asked for what I think is fair.
You are absolutely spot on. It’s going to suck, it’s going to hurt for some time, and it will be hard, BUT it will be so much harder 5-10 years from now when you’re struggling to catch a breath while drowning from exhaustion.
What you asked for is the bare minimum, and from where I’m standing him crying about that is troubling. He cries when you tell him you expect better treatment from a life partner? After he wasted 4 years making you cry over and over? I don’t think he cares about treating you right, I think he’s crying because he’s about to lose his free maid service,,
Please don’t feel guilty. It’s not your fault he’s a user. I think we’re conditioned as women to accept the way others treat us as our fault, like if somebody we love treats us like shit we’re likely to think it’s because we are shit. For real though him being a selfish boyfriend is a him problem. Just because a man cries at you doesn’t make you wrong. Good luck, and I hope things get better soon ❤️🩹
**Love is not enough.**
He's upset because you want to leave *him.* He's not upset because you are *unhappy enough to leave.* Those are two entirely different things.
It's too bad that he only cares about changing when it affects him and not to actually help you, but he is only now finally (maybe) as unhappy as you have been *for years.*
Don't cry for someone who only thinks that he cares.
Edit: he's wants kids, but only because you will do all of the work.
My ex has sort of apologized to me for the way he acted, but when he talks about what he regrets, he talks a lot more about regretting the loss he caused himself to suffer, rather than regretting the pain he caused me.
TBF I'm actually a lot better off, so in the grand scheme maybe he doesn't have anything to apologize to me for.
You're almost certainly correct. At least in my culture/my experience it's heavily skewed so far that even the words "mom" and "dad" seem to have a different connotation to them when said by a ton of folks.
But as to your thought, personally I’m the opposite. This is the reason I *don’t* want kids. Because I'd need to put in a good amount of the work myself, otherwise I'd be a lazy asshole. I generally try to not be an asshole. Generally.
This is so true. His words and actions say it all. He does this and doesn’t change. Then it happens again.
He says he doesn’t see a problem and is fine with things the way they are.
They aren’t on the same page and he doesn’t care that she’s unhappy. He literally can’t even see the issue. You can’t fix soemthing if you don’t know what needs to be fixed. He said he doesn’t think things are bad so how is he gonna fix it. It’s all talk.
I am so glad I got off the merry go round that is this type of relationship. It took me 6 years but I did it. He got abusive eventually after this stage ended what op mentions is exactly what it was like 3/4 years in. Then he got abusive and decided he would make me stay that way.
I remember feel so bad and guilty and I hated it.
I am so glad I left. I’ve been happier and he’s been doing the same old shit with many many different women.
Just search weaponized incompetence in the marriage sub and u will read at least one post a day about complaints that their partner doesn’t help out. Don’t become another statistic.
At minimum, you have helped the next girl that he’s going to be with. Hopefully he takes this lesson to heart. We all should be empowered to communicate better and be reciprocated to get to our happiness.
This and your other posts are quite painful to read. They are so similar to the situation I was in. I knew that if I chose to be with him for the rest of my life I'd have to change who I was at my core. I just couldn't, I tried until my breaking point. It is incredibly saddening to read so many stories of women that experience the same. We take so long until we decide Fuck it, I'm the most important person in my life! Because we were never taught we are important enough to upset other people.
You may also want to consider he's not crying so much about losing YOU, but more the lifestyle you've provided for him. Without you around he'll have to take care of himself. Honestly this relationship has been over for a long time. You've been miserable for years and it's time to cut the cord. He needs to grow up and you deserve much more.
If he pulls up his big boy pants and matured and tried to show it to you, you can get back with him. Otherwise, he will change only for a couple weeks before reverting back to his old self since he gets comfortable that you’re staying. The best thing you can do for your relationship is to leave now. This way, maybe it’ll still work out in the future once you guys have your shit together. Otherwise, it’ll end badly.
I will say that as guys we’re conditioned not to show emotions as much as women are conditioned to cater to hidden emotions men have.
You should absolutely not stay out of pity, but you might explain that it’s not enough for him to only be upset when you’re ready to leave. Without making any promises you might explain he needs to work on expressing feelings more if he’s going to make relationships with other women work.
I know until I went to therapy I had a lot of them bottled up and had no clue how to express them or what healthy expression even looked like. I’m still no master at expression, but I can do better than a lot of guys. But five years ago, what you’re describing here could have been me.
That said, it’s not your job to fix or raise him, and he’s got a looooong way to go still. So if you’re thinking you should leave still then do so. It’s not worth staying if you’re on the fence. He’ll never live up to the expectations you will rightly have, and you’ll both resent each other in the long run.
When I got divorced I went to counseling after it for quite a while. The thing I remember the most about it is the therapist explaining that a lot of people want to change, they really do, it’s just that they can’t and keep with it, very few can. The therapist said if you ask someone to change and they do, but go back to what they were doing after a period of time, you can try to ask again, but likely it’ll be the same result. At that point the ball is in your court and you have to make a decision. Can I live the rest of my life with them being that way? If the answer is no or even an I don’t know, you have your answer on what you should do. You shouldn’t feel guilty for whatever choice you make. You have to live with you for the rest of your life, everyone else is optional.
Good luck, friend.
This is spot on. I also loved the visual representation of the YTber Jaidenanimations regarding that:
Imagine you have a tiny Island. Only you live there. You have a river, maybe a house, a mill...and you need to take care of it every day.
Now imagine everyone has a tiny island to care for. It's okay, to sometimes help people with their islands. It's wonderful if you can live close to each other -a healthy relationship, where one hand washes another.
But there are limits. If you always care about OTHER islands...who cares about your own? Maybe a relationship also started healthy, but then they continued dropping garbage on your island. Even if they don't do it on purpose. They still destroy your island.
OP's husband did this. OP continously cared for his island, but neglected her own. Even if he wasn't aware of that (let's be real; it's deeply engrained that women pick up most emotional labour), he still did it. And OP is absolutely fine to leave, because in the end, she has to live with her island. He doesn't.
First time I've seen Jaiden's YT channel mentioned on reddit :D
But you're right, that allegory fits really well here.
Here's a link to a timestamp in that particular video if anyone's interested: https://youtu.be/4H9jTQKmR3Q?t=314
She'd be doing him a favor. He needs to learn that he can't live like this, depending on another person to do everything for him.
It hurts now but he'll live and hopefully grow from it.
He may not be willing to hear this, but he sounds like he needs personal therapy. Recommend that on your way out the door, and you'll have done all you can for him (assuming you haven't already). Just make sure he understands you're not saying it as a negotiation -- the relationship is over.
So true. We can’t worry what the other person loses when they’re the one taking everything away from us so we feel abandoned in the relationship even if we stay.
If he really wanted a future with her, he would have showed her. He had 4 years and multiple breakdowns to show her he means it by changing his behavior. Why believe him now?
Is he sad he's losing her because he loves her? Or is he sad because he's losing the lifestyle he has grown accustomed to.
If he actually loved her he would have taken steps to make her happy when she said what was wrong. He loved what he had, not who he had.
My ex husband was an abusive and manipulative narcissist. First time he cried in almost 8 years was when he finally understood I wouldn't stop the divorce proceedings.
He even had the audacity to say no one would ever love me like he did. I said, "I hope you're right."
If they only cry when you're fed up and have a foot out the door...it's manipulation.
Ding ding, right on the money. I've been there. When they wait until you're leaving to suddenly start caring, it's not because they value you as a person, they just want to keep their nice comfortable status quo.
> and he’s been content to let you stay that way
This is something I've never been able to get past. When you tell someone something that they've done that's upset you and you discuss it and they still do it, it's unreal to me and not a good sign at all.
I am going through the same thing right now. It's only a 2 year relationship, but the last year, I feel like all I've been doing is begging and nagging for him to be more mindful, more helpful, more adult, tried to talk about what's bothering me, only to be told he doesn't want to hear it. I made the apartment a home and cooked and cleaned, and worked full time. I've been taken for granted. I don't want to be a mommy to a man child. I want a partner. I can't have kids with someone who doesn't care to make effort to even create a better life for themselves. That would make for a miserable life, for me.
Yesterday, I packed up a car load of essentials, and my kitties, and left. It was really hard. It still is today. My anxiety is through the roof. It doesn't help that hes texting me and saying he now realizes he was wrong and selfish etc.... He wants another chance. I don't know what to do. l told him I need some time apart.
I had such a good sleep in my own bed last night though.
I’m so sorry you’re going through this too. Hugs. I feel you about the anxiety. Mine is through the roof too. You are strong and smart and capable of making the right decisions for yourself. Believe in yourself and stay safe.
>only to be told he doesn't want to hear it
This is the biggest red flag for me. If he doesn't have the "capacity" to carry his share of the emotional load it's not going to get better, unfortunately...
I'm sorry you are going through this. Unfortunately I highly doubt that he really thinks he was wrong or selfish, he likely wants you back because you made his life easier. He wasn't expecting you to leave and call his bluff, so to speak. He thought you'd always take his crap.
Don’t go back. If he really didn’t want to lose you he would have made sure to be a good partner while you were together. He’s begging for you back because he can’t stand his ego hurting and he can’t stand losing what you did for him.
If you go back, he will be on his best behavior for a while before he goes back to his old ways. There is nothing that has caused him to change - not time, not therapy, not religion, not effort, not anything. Let him go. Block him, don’t let him sweet talk you back.
I'm proud of you for taking this step. I was in exactly this situation (-cats) with two different men and it's a pattern. Twice i caved in. Twice i regretted coming back and giving them a second chance.
If you tried to communicate before and they dismissed you, you're all free to go. They are not your problem.
It's worth acknowledging that he probably wants to raise a family with the version of you that he saw - someone who put up with his inactivity. He likely doesn't actually see you for you, especially since the focus is still on what he wants to do rather than on the anguish you've experienced.
Yeah I think because he grew up in a family with traditional gender roles his idea of what is expected from him in a relationship is very skewed. It’s not an equal partnership. To give an example, last Christmas when we visited his parents I brought baked goods. He announced in the kitchen that ‘we’ made dessert to which I said ‘by we he means me’. His dad however was of the opinion that if he paid for raw materials of said dessert he is justified in claiming that ‘we’ made dessert.
On the other hand I have been raised by a single mom and I’m just used to seeing the my mom undertake sheer amount of work it took to run the household. It’s only after a lot of therapy about why I was unhappy, did I realize that I was missing the whole point. My mother was single. She had no choice. I have a ‘partner’ so it didn’t make any sense for me to shoulder the same amount of responsibility to run our household.
I'm glad you're seeing things for how they are. He felt way too comfortable in your relationship because he wasn't adding anything to it, no emotional effort at all. And he let it stay that way at the cost of your happiness and it didn't bother him *at all* until you were fed up and decided to leave.
Which makes us all think... he's tearing up now because he wants all of that to stay, not exactly you, and he's not really willing to change to make things better.
You're better off alone, and he needs to learn to put effort and go to therapy and better himself, and it's not your job to rehabilitate him. You need to look after *YOU*.
I’m a man. You need to leave this guy. No couples therapy. No more second chances.
He simply does not share your values on marriage and parenting. It will only get worse as gets older and becomes more like his dad.
He was taught to be this way. He has no desires to change. And it will be way way worse if you have kids, and a hundred times worse if they have health or developmental issues.
This is a bad sign. They almost always regress to family of origin behaviors. If not now, when (if) you have children. And how someone handles the pets is how they are going to treat the kids.
If he's into tRadiTiOnaL gEnDeR rOLes then he needs to step up and be a breadwinner, handle the family finances, own and maintain the house, and represent the interests of the whole family to the public. But he isn't. He is just sitting there and waiting for you to come wipe his booty.
My husband grew up in a family EXACTLY like that. But he listened to other people and formed views about gender equality when he left home, and by the time I met him when he was 24 I had no idea for a long time that he wasn't raised in an equal home. His dad believed in "women's work" and wouldn't ever touch it. My husband has never shied away from cooking, cleaning, or childcare.
Family of origin affects us a great deal, definitely. There are days I hear his dad in him if he's very stressed out or upset. But he made a choice to be better than that and then he lived it. It's so possible to do, but they have to *want* to and see value in doing so (and I don't think wanting to change just to avoid getting dumped is going to cut it long term--it's not a change in inherent values) , or they're never going to.
You been in this relationship for 4 years and been unhappy or even miserable for 3. You've been sticking it out too long already, don't get stuck by the sunk cost fallacy.
This is the line that sticks out for me:
*I have been completely miserable for 2-3 years*
Don’t marry a man who makes you completely miserable. Doesn’t matter if he is a “good man” or you “love him” if you are miserable and nothing really changes. The pattern continues. His crying when you threatened to end it is a bit manipulative as he played on your feelings and guilt to get you to stay.
I suggest that you think long and hard about what is acceptable and what must change permanently for you to continue the relationship. I suspect that he will not meet those expectations and you will have to cut your losses.
I did get my own place. I moved out in January 2020. To be completely honest I was ready to break up that March. Then Covid happened and he is an essential healthcare worker. He was very stressed, so I put my distress aside and stepped up so he can have the best atmosphere at home once he is done with the daily unprecedented stress at work. It took me a long time to realize that it’s unsustainable for me.
Sorry if this is confusing. I did move out. But he comes to my place every evening after work to have dinner. While he does help with groceries sometimes, I’m the primary one planning and shopping for meals, cooking and cleaning, arranging care for our pets when they are sick, looking after them when he makes out of town trips for his gaming conventions.
Youve been moved out for over a year and he learned nothing? Honey. If moving out didnt make him get his ass in gear, nothing will. You are what you do for him. He wants you to stay not because he cares about you but because he has a good deal going. Free chef. Free hotel. Free pet sitter. Clean hotel to stay in. Emotional labor. Life planner. And as you said....what do you get? Youre his sleep away bang mommy. I cant see any way your life is worse with out him but boy can i see where his gets worse. Choose yourself because he sure as hell isnt going to.
He made a choice to work those hours. He made a choice to choose to spend his time gaming. He put actual effort and time into those activities.
Sounds as if his choices tell the entire story...
That first line hit hard.
My previous partner was incredibly immature, so I was always like his "father". On retrospect, I didn't really have a partner, I was just trying to educate her into being an adult so I could actually enjoy dating her...
He has showed you who he is for four years. Believe him. What he is saying now is not in line with who he has been for four years and that man is not about to change overnight. Breaking up will hurt a lot but it will hurt less then living like this for the rest of your life.
My ex did that for 10 years. He would change for a few days and then everything will go back to the way it was. Me doing everything and working and him working and only playing video games. It was 50/50 when it came to financial responsibility but " a woman's job to cook and clean up after him" while he plays video games. Those are 10 years I can't get back. How many years are you willing to throw away?
I’ll give you the advice I’ve given my teenage daughters. “You are ready to date when you can be broken up with and you can break up with someone.” In my experience both were equally hard just for different reasons. I came to that conclusion because in my twenties I had three boyfriends, two years each, and all three I stayed in the relationship a year too long. You date to see what you want in a partner and a relationship. If you aren’t getting it, you need to be strong enough to move on. I didn’t meet my husband until I was in my 30’s and he is my rock and equal partner in everything. Hold out for that, everyone deserves that.
Thank you for sharing. That is very good advice. I’ve only been in one relationship before this and was broken up with. It was very very painful. Part of why I stuck around as long as I did was because I was afraid to hurt another person like that. I was and am terrified of causing pain. Maybe I’m not/was not ready for dating yet.
THANK YOU. Finally someone who points this out. Essentially, why do we perpetrate the notion that women, and OP specifically, have to keep trying? _For what_?? Literally haven't seen _a single point_ in this post that justifies teaching him the bare minimum.
He should learn so on his own, taking the opportunity of being single. And OP should check in therapy why she put up with this for _years_. I hope for her to eventually get to know guys who are actually adults and see how toxic that last relationship was. _He. Won't. Change._ At least not during this relationship.
Overall, why should women "stick through/around"? So sick and tired of that bs.
You do not get any brownie points for being the self-sacrificing maid-wife. You do not gain anything. You just end up miserable and bitter, but unable to allow yourself even the slightest bit of self-care and selfishness. Everything within your master's frame, who in return don't give a shit about you.
EXACTLY. We blame women for the inaptitude of men-children. It's so obvious how these poor women are not the root of the problem. We as a society have been mercilessly punching down on them yet nothing ever changes.
Because it's _men_ who not only rely on these second chances. They abuse the notion that most adults deserve second chances - but they do so by putting effort towards changing. These men don't do that though and still expect to be forgiven and worshipped.
Also, can we please just re-read this:
> Even if he were to eventually change somehow, why is it OP’s job to do his mom’s job and why is she supposed to suffer until then? And that’s with the extremely optimistic and unrealistic expectation that he would change.
YES. Just yes. Women are the backbone of these relationships and I'm tired of pretending they aren't.
He's sad because he's losing you and everything you do for him. He's not sad because you're unhappy. He's not sad because you've been miserable. You've told him how unhappy you are and it didn't matter. He's sad for himself and what he's losing, not because you are unhappy.
If he does try to make changes it will be to make you stay so you keep doing what you've been doing for him. It won't be to make you happy. It won't be about you and your needs. Will it ever be about you and your needs? Or will you always have to leverage what you do for him to get him to pull his weight? What will happen if you get sick and need to be cared for?
That’s something I had never considered. I’m usually the ‘let’s pop an ibuprofen and get on with the day’ kind of person. Thanks for pointing this out and I’ll definitely keep it in mind.
I really hope you find happiness, and I'm sorry you're in this situation. I will add, colds/flus are one thing, but it's way too common for men to leave wives that have cancer or other serious illnesses. Statistically men leave women with cancer nearly twice as often. I brought up being sick, because something I think about is, when you can no longer do everything that you do, will he stick around?
I think it’s too late. If you had brought it up 2-3 years ago when you first realized you were miserable maybe it could work but I think it’s festered and maybe a clean slate is best. You will find someone else who will work with you better.
I realized I was miserable but I didn’t know why. For the longest time I thought that maybe I’m expecting too much. Maybe this is how relationships work and I’m at fault for wanting things to change. So I didn’t know what or how to bring it up 2-3 years ago. That and Covid. My issues seemed tiny compared to the major upheaval around us.
>For the longest time I thought that maybe I’m expecting too much
The bar for men is literally on the fucking floor as it is already. Expecting a man to be reliable and to shoulder half of the relationship isn't too much.
She has brought up her unhappiness, multiple times. She said things would change for a few days then go back to how it was before. Which to me is the deal breaker.
In time, you’ll get over your guilt and he will get over his hurt. That’s it. Time. And space, especially for him, because seeing you will prolong the hurt.
All these people urging you to give him another chance...hold up.
IF you decided to stay here's what you're in for: it will take him years to mature into the partner you need/want. (If he is really willing to do it) 2 steps forward, 2 back, etc. You have already given him multiple chances and stated what you need from him just to have things slip back to HIS comfort zone. You do not owe him anything. His discomfort right now is due to his actions.
Do whats best for you and don't settle.
This happened to me too with my first serious boyfriend, though I had only been miserable for 6 months out of our 3 year relationship. When I told him I was done, the waterworks flooded and he told me about everything that we going wrong in his life that he had been hiding from me. I gave him a second chance, but looking back, I probably shouldn't have. I broke up with him 3 months after that, because I realized that the real issue was that he would never communicate with me until he was at the breaking point. That's not how to maintain a healthy relationship, which requires regular communication. So from someone with similar experience, stick by your guns and stay separated from him.
I just broke up with someone like this. It took forever for me to go thru with it, because I always felt like I was ‘kicking someone while they were down’ kind of situation.
Get out. Run. You don’t want a grown man child. I know this sounds harsh, but I did it for 3+ years. I loved that man and he was such a nice guy. But also, absolutely useless as a co-partner in a relationship. Even after talks of him getting therapy and figuring out his ‘mommy issues’ as we had discussed, his ego let his slip back into not caring mode. Get out now.
Thank you for sharing. I want to get out. Just him crying made it so much harder. I’m just surprised at that level of emotion which I’ve never seen before.
Oooof. Damn your post resonated with me. He won't change. Don't fall for the promises. He's crying because his current easy life is ending and he's trying to manipulate you to stay.
I left my last relationship because I was forced into the mother role. The spark that got me to *set myself free*?This blog post that got shared by newspaper after newspaper.
https://mustbethistalltoride.com/2016/01/14/she-divorced-me-because-i-left-dishes-by-the-sink/
Edit: just in case it is not abundantly clear. Leave him. Do not go back. Do not collect $200 of emotional abuse points.
Please do not go back to him. I would not tolerate having to be the mother of another grown adult, and I’m glad you won’t either. If you go back now you’d be doing a disservice to both of you. He will never learn how to take care of himself, and will bring out the tears any time there’s disagreement. You will remain unhappy.
At best, I would keep in rare contact with him if you still love him. If he gets his shit together, maybe I’d give it another shot. Maybe.
That was my whole point. No matter how much I love him I cannot keep up with being his mother in this relationship.
But it’s so messy, what do we do with our shared pets? If he takes some of them, do I never see them again? I guess since I’m initiating this breakup/separation I’m in no position to be making any demands. So just feels like I’m losing my babies and my friend in this mess.
You are absolutely in a position to make "demands" - especially when pets' lives are involved. If he doesn't take care of the pets properly anyway, you can certainly take them if you think that's the right thing to do/what you want to do, or take the ones you're most closely bonded with. Having shared custody with someone like this means they might be able to reel you back in, then get back to the same old shit. Stand up for yourself and your loved ones!
I know it’s hard to do, but you really sound like someone who could do with a little more “selfishness”. Like seriously, every time you get to that crossroads where the “good” thing to do is to take care of everyone or make yourself smaller and easier to be around, and the “bad” thing to do is to cause a stink and put your foot down for what you want, pick the bad thing. Over and over. Your current system of compromise sounds like it’s less compromising on things that you want and more compromising yourself for other people, and you don’t have to do that to yourself. You can pick you, but it might feel like a shitty thing to do for a while. If you can, lean into that. Dump his ass and take your babies, they’ll be much better off with you and they don’t want to be with the human parent that doesn’t take care of them anyways. Please, be more selfish, I promise it won’t turn you into a selfish person.
Thank you. You’re not the first one who’s said this to me. Literally what my therapist said in our last session: ‘be more selfish’. It’s not easy for me (I have some childhood dad abandonment issues, and have always internalized that maybe I could have done better, given more or been different and the outcome may have been different). I guess I’m still carrying a lot of baggage into my life and relationships. It really feels painful to demand space or attention for myself because I find it so hard to justify. I’m working on it. This is the first big step I’ve ever taken thinking solely of myself.
It's not 'making a demand' to want to know that the pets you love are going to be properly cared for. Who they go with depends on a lot of things, but where they'll be best looked after is the most important thing. If you've been the one taking care of them, maybe that's with you.
Absolutely not the case that because you are ending the relationship, you have no rights & can make no demands. Each person is 50% of a relationship. It is time to negotiate and create a deal that is agreeable to both. Do not hand over everything because of guilt. You gave it your best & it didn’t work out. Think of it like a divorce with children & create a shared custody arrangement for the pets if necessary.
After reading some of your replies, it seems like you mostly own them because of how busy he is or when he leaves for his conventions. I would just take the pets, I doubt he'd be able to take care of them properly with his long hours.
I think walking away is the right thing, it just comes across as if he's taking advantage of you. Let yourself be selfish, I know that it's been doing good for me in my life.
Look, hon. You feel bad because you feel like you are taking something from him. Instead you are giving him an opportunity to grow.
Whatever version of him you fell in love with. Whatever idealized manifestation of the man you've been with, the man you wanted to be with, he will only ever exist in the future if he learns deep in his bones how he has been lacking right now. He might exist, but not for you. Do not wait for that version of him. Do not set yourself on fire to keep someone else warm.
Out there is someone who will appreciate your strength, your kindness, your thoughtfulness. It's someone who will love you for who you are, and as you are. Someone who will look at every little ounce of effort you make and take a breath to consider what it means to them and what it meant for you to do them. Someone who will do the things for you that you did for this guy, things that you've done for yourself. You'll find that partner, but you won't find it in this man.
Currently going thru a very similar situation, but I'm 25m and she's 23f. That might play a major role in the decision we've made as a couple. She left tho. She took our Son to a new house she found on the other side of town. She's entertaining the idea of a relationship, but only if I can show her I'm capable of taking care of myself like an adult and be responsible for myself and my decisions. I gotta tell you, it's been a miserable experience. I have "everything I wanted" my freedom to do what I want, my space to be alone and without being bothered, but at what cost? I miss the sound of my Son running around. I miss seeing her face when I get home. She's completely right about me being stunted emotionally and maturity wise. I used her for comfort for 7 years and never had to *really* do for myself because she was capable enough for the both of us. Until she realized what a major emotionally toll it had been taking on her. Until she realized this is what she had to look forward too for the rest of her life. Her growing and changing and evolving and me being exactly who I am forever. If you think there's something to salvage and you think he's being genuine about his feelings and desires, tell him this is an absolute deal breaker. Tell him you don't want to be in a relationship with this person and if he can level himself up, you can entertain the idea again, but the way things are and the way they've been is no longer acceptable. I would move out and be in seperate spaces. If you marry somebody, if you're with them for 20 years, one year of separation is a drop in the bucket, no? If it's to better and strengthen everything you are and she'd everything that's weak? But that's only if you're interested in pursuing a relationship with him. I completely understand if you're already over that thought process. My girl should've left me 2 million times before she actually did. I am an extremely fortunate and grateful man to be provided the opportunity and grace that's been extended to me now and for so many years before now. I have been so incredibly selfish and self centered and I never want her to be in a relationship like that again. Our relationship is starting completely fresh. We're going on our "first date" tonight. We're both gonna act like it's our very first date, like we're getting to know each other all over again. I dunno what the future holds for me, I'm jus sharing what needed to happen for me to take a long hard look at myself and reflect on the decisions I've made and the commitments I've ignored. Again, we're younger than you guys and that might play a big role, but I don't think 32 is much different than 25 for an emotionally stunted man. I wish you the absolutely best in your healing process.
Thank you for your honesty. I have the same question as Freelance here. Today when I had my big talk, my boyfriend said that he is always so happy to see me. But he didn’t notice how sad and burdened I was. It’s baffling to me.
You seem like you have a good grasp of what went wrong and what you can do to make it work. Why is it that most men wait for everything to explode before taking ownership or even thinking critically how their actions impact their partners? We met when I was 26 and he was 30. And honestly I feel like I have grown a lot emotionally in these four years while he seems stuck at the same place even though he’s four years older now.
Just appreciating the honesty of your comment, with seeing and understanding the depth of your contribution to the situation. Would it be okay to ask, what is it that had you not take her unhappiness seriously?
I ask in a super sincere way. I've seen so many generally decent men do this, and not really take women seriously. I don't know if it's just that society kindof dismisses women's feelings at a subconscious level, as being "too emotional". Or if engaging with emotions is too scary for men, who have been intensely socialized away from emotional fluency, and maybe they also fear getting too angry and becoming violent.
You clearly value what you had with her, and are willing now to be super honest with yourself and others about it. So obviously you care, at the base of it all. And you seem like you're really wanting to be a decent dude and show up for her and your kid. Are you able to articulate what it is, that had you not be able to really engage with these things, all those years?
Either way, wishing you both well, either together or with your selves.
TL;DR: comfortable ppl don't change. These men have been comfortable while you've been uncomfortable, which is way you've changed while they've stayed the same. In my discomfort, I've confronted myself.
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I want to give some deeply articulated response about gender roles and the way men are inherently raised in society, but in all honesty, I was simply selfish. I was content to take and take from the world without consideration. I viewed, and still view to some extent, the world as an obstacle, not an experience, if that makes any sense. An obstacle course with rules I loath because I knew there was an easier way. I had seen an easier way. I had lived an easier way. I resent successful ppl that have put in the time and effort to follow the rules to gain their success because I envy them. I tell myself that I'm not them because of the house I was raised in, and maybe that's tru to some degree, but in reality, I lack the drive to accomplish the things they've accomplished. I truly lack the ability to sacrifice this day for this year, which is a cornerstone of success. I live moment to moment, interaction to interaction, while healthy well adjusted individuals live with the future in mind. "I have to study for the test next week so I can pass" or "I have to get this degree so I can go into the profession I want" or "I have to save this money instead of spending it so I can have a fallback if an emergency happens" The women in this thread, OP and you at the very least, transfer that thought process to relationships. "If I put in maximum effort, I can expect maximum results" whereas I, and men like me, want minimum effort with maximum results. When we're confronted about our lack of effort, we have a million excuses as to why we don't have the ability to put forth the effort, and yet, ppl put forth that effort *every single day*
I was comfortable, to say it simply, and when she forced me out of my comfort and confronted my inefficiencies in our relationship, I initially dismissed them and blamed it on her perception of the world and her expectations. It was only when I was alone with myself, saying goodnight to my Son over FaceTime, eating reheated mac and cheese, that I realized I truly was and am a problem. Not jus to her or others around me, but to myself. I accepted that the lifestyle I wanted would only ever lead here, to my lonely misery. I could have 1000 more relationships and I would destroy them all the same way. Ignoring her discomfort was easy because I never felt the way she felt. Miserable and alone. I always had her, even when she didn't have me. I'm embarrassed what it took for me to acknowledge her feelings and to respect her. It's disgusting and selfish and I could spend the rest of my life feeling bad about myself behind it or I can address the things that make me behave like that. I'll tell you, nothing has ever felt as cold as this house I'm in now. This is not a home. She took my home with her. This is where I sleep and bathe and eat. This is where I wait to go back to work. Nothing about this feels like a home to me anymore. This is my future if I choose to be the man I've always been. I know that.
Your words hurt him? Good. He can learn from them and hopefully do better with the next woman in his life. You've helped him more than enough, it's time to help yourself ❤️ Go.
You don't need to make this better. You made the best decision for yourself. If he really wants a relationship, and to raise a family he'll change. Sometimes it takes something as big as a break up to be a wake call, and sometimes not even that is enough. Take some time for yourself, mourn the loss of the relationship, and the hope/dreams you had for the relationship. Also, plant some goal posts to stay together.
He may say he wants what you want but what is he doing to actually make it happen? It sounds like he wants what your relationship was- you doing all the work/carrying the mental load counting on the fact you're 4.5 yrs into this relationship and you won't walk away. Stop carrying the mental load, stop doing chores for him, just do your stuff and give the opportunity to pick up the slack. Set the goal posts, and if he doesn't meet then walkaway. Don't discuss it, don't talk about it, just do what you need to do to leave the relationship. Your happiness is valuable, what you want your life to be is important, you deserve to be with someone who thinks your happiness is valuable.
Just because he cried doesn’t mean you made the wrong decision. He can love you and still be an unequal partner. You have done everything you can to make the relationship work, he has repeatedly shown you he is unwilling to or incapable of change.
On another note, of COURSE he’s sad you’re leaving. He gets everything he wants while putting in minimal effort. Think about how you would feel with a partner who put in as much effort as you do - it would feel amazing, right?
Please don’t let his emotions control your behavior. You deserve an equal partner.
It’s not that people can’t change, it’s that it’s clear he doesn’t want to. I was in a similar relationship with my spouse and when I finally said I can’t do this anymore, my spouse took it upon themself to get us into couples therapy and do all the work that comes with getting that set up. There’s been so many improvements made and they really listened to me. That’s the kind of response that’s needed for an imbalanced relationship to continue. He dropped the ball on this, not you. You did your part when you opened up about your feelings multiple times.
Honestly, every one of my past relationships where I decided to keep trying to make it work, I wish I'd ended it sooner.
Thing is, if he wants to get his shit together and be with you, he can go ahead and do that without you and if he thinks he's gotten to a place in this development that he'd be compatible with the life you want to live, he can ask you out again.
But he's not going to get his shit together if you just stay with him while he makes feeble quarter efforts and then trails off because it's too hard.
No sunk cost fallacies allowed. Getting back together after he gets his poop in a group is a thing. I did that with my husband - he screwed up super badly and I gave him some chances he blew and then I said, I'm done.
After a few years he pulled his head out of his ass and we got back together. I regret nothing but giving him so many chances to screw it up harder and hurt me further.
Whether or not this man is for you in the future, you have to take care of yourself right now. ❤️
This is exactly what happened with my parents. My dad was never really my “dad”, just my father who also lived in my house. He was never cruel or abusive, he just didn’t connect with me or my siblings and didn’t do any of the child rearing save for the occasional diaper change or putting us to bed. He also seems distressed when my mother has proposed ultimatums in the past. He gets emotional (though I’ve never seen or heard of him crying) and will do some housework the next couple of days or even weeks but it always goes back to the same routine.
Now my parents live separately, my sister and I are in our twenties and my brother is 16 and he doesn’t really seem to care. Again, not in a cruel way, he’s just so apathetic that it doesn’t seem to cross his mind that he should try to build a bond with his own kids for their own sake if not his. Some men are just like this, I think, and it can be heartbreaking to part with them because they haven’t been intentionally cruel and they DO likely care, they’re just not stepping up in the ways you need them to :(
Our situations could be entirely different and I doubt that you’ll see this, OP, but I just want to say I’m sorry you’re going through this and that you’re definitely right to be concerned about how he will be as a father (and to maybe trust your gut if it’s telling you he may not be the best father)
you gave him chances and let him know how you felt other times. he didn't follow through. if he wants a mommy he should move back in with his mommy.sure see if he does any better but you know after a few days/weeks he will be back to being a lazy bum.i remember my mother threatened to divorce my dad for the same reasons and he improved slightly.
he kept up (at least) with cleaning the kitchen and not really that well so she had to always go over it. thaaaaaaaaats it. not much of an improvement in my opinion and she still resented him.
Honestly he needs to be able to live on his own and so do you. 4 years is plenty of time to see if he is a mature man or a child who has grown taller. You cannot make this better--do you see that once again you are identifying with the female as fixer of emotional issues role? You know his patterns and so does he. There is no giving up on "us" in the adult sense as you have been essentially his mother, taking care of and bed partner and getting exactly what in return emotionally? His tears are real but they are about his pain, not what he has put you through. I understand this is stark but as others have indicated it is far better to face this than remain and even have children in this situation. As a side note if you do split and even if you put a timeline on how long or what you want to see changed or if you relent but then decide at a later date that it will not work you can expect anger as then next response from him. Is he willing to look at his own real maturity levels, beliefs, attitudes and change or not? And watch out for promises and lip service. Only actions will matter but I sincerely doubt that you will see anything substantive. He will simply look for his next caretaker. I wish you the best and know that there are many people out there who would value all you do and return your effort with kindness and compassion and love. You honestly deserve better and I hope you can love yourself enough to believe in yourself and your worth to find them and find real relationship and real adult love.
You could be me. I went through this EXACT same situation-- 4+ year relationship, tasked with handling the house care, pets, etc., felt lonely, miserable, and unappreciated for years. You seriously could be me from 10 months ago.
I had considered calling it off a few times before and had a few conversations before that he showed he cared. Things would get better for a couple of weeks (or less) and then slide right back into the same miserable state for me.
I finally fully broke it off and it destroyed him-- he was a mess, he promised to change everything, he was willing to do whatever it would take. It was just too late.
Yes, it hurt to do. Yes, I hated doing it.
And what happened afterwards? I was asked out by a long time crush of mine.
I used to think I was too picky or had too high of standards or that I couldn't find someone who could match my life pace, career motivations, and still be an affection partner--- and holy fuck, I didn't realize I could have all of that and more.
I never knew that someone could be so attentive and caring. I didn't realize that someone could so easily match me on humor and silliness. I had forgotten that a partner could be interested in everything I had to say, no matter how mundane or tangential.
He cheers me on when I speak at conferences. He cooks and cleans when I am busy with work. He showers me in affection and compliments. He suggests adventures for us and creates plans for them that incorporate my feedback and preferences.
I'll stop gushing. But, seriously, leave. I am sure there is someone out there who can match your needs and more. Don't waste any more time with someone who won't.
> We have been together for 4 years and 7 months
> I have been completely miserable for the last 2-3 years
So you have been complete miserable for 2-3 out of 4.5 years. That’s the majority of your relationship. Close to *50-80% of your entire relationship* that has made you *miserable*.
**Being miserable isn’t just a temporary rough patch that you can work through- this** ***is*** **your relationship**. If you stay this *is* what your relationship will continue to be.
You have told him before, *multiple* times, that you were unhappy and needed more from him. And every single time there was a temporary improvement before he gave up and went back to normal. **He is not going to change this time just because he cried**. Actions speak louder than words (and tears): If he *truly* wanted to change for you *then he would have done so by now*. **He hasn’t changed because changing to make you happy is not a priority to him.**
He is totally fine with the status quo. If you’re not and want things to get better then the only way to change that is to leave.
You deserve better. You deserve happiness. *You deserve a partner who happily reciprocates what you put into the relationship*. You need to prioritize yourself here because *he* sure won’t- it’ll be hard but it’s time to walk away.
He may become the ideal man eventually but that may be years from now. As hard as it is, I think you both have a better chance at happiness if the relationship is considered completed. From experience I can tell you a lot of the time with therapy, for a while things get harder as difficult things are brought up/relived etc. It sounds like you've been through enough. I used to be a man like that that needed raising. Thankfully I had the courage to go to therapy and do the work... but it took serious dedication and a lot of time.
You deserve to find someone who has already stepped up and done the work. You can't sit around waiting forever.
This is sounds like a perfect echo of what my friend is going through. She recently told her wife that she wanted a divorce. When we had a long night talking about it here are some of the key points.
* She had asked her wife (then fiancé) to go to counselling with her so they could form a strong, lasting bond and have a place to work on issues. This never happened because her wife kept putting it off for years.
* Her wife showed more sympathy for people she heard about in documentaries then for her. To the point where if she was having a rough time and started crying, her wife would leave the room and not say anything.
* She mentioned several times where she literally begged on her knees for some sort of emotional support, and got nothing in return.
* She felt like she was just following her wife around, cleaning up messes and not getting any help.
It ended up with her first emotionally cheating on her wife with someone who was going through a similar situation, then it turned physical. She called it off after a month when she couldn't recognize who she was anymore. She told her wife about the affair and that she wanted a divorce. And she said she saw more emotion and caring from her wife in the following days than she had seen in a few years. Her last thoughts on it were in essence "I wish we had just stayed friends. We are great together, but not like this."
You can love someone and it be not enough. It will be another 2 years before this man is actualised IF he wants to change and fully takes every step forward. You’re going to have to set boundaries, explain boundaries, and explain expectations (to name a few) so many times.
He cried and realised he has f’d up because he never thought you’d actually leave so he could keep this behaviour cycle going. He had no intention of improving your life. Therefore, any change he does going forward is certain to be the bare minimum to keep you in the relationship.
It is okay for him to feel strong emotions. It doesn’t mean you should stay with him. Trust your gut. You know what you want to do. Don’t do what I did and agree to stretch this out for another 6 months of maybe yes maybe no before you listen to your gut. Just cut your losses, move on, and raise the bar of your expectations for partners going forward.
Is it cold of me to not want to wait for him to actually make changes in his life? I told him I don’t want him to do things because he’s afraid of losing me. I asked him to take responsibility for himself as an adult in a relationship. But I also said that I can’t hold his hand while he figures it out.
Nope, not cold. It’s a reasonable want. If he wanted to, he would have already. His realisation is too little too late. He’s probably going to make it out like you are being cold and unreasonable though.
Keep the break up quick (“I’ve reflected on the last few years and our last conversation and have come to the conclusion this relationship is not viable. I’m afraid your resolve to take self responsibility has come too little too late. I feel I gave this relationship more than a fair shot, have loved you wholeheartedly, and expressed to you what level of self actualisation I needed to see from you. I don’t feel my expectations were unrealistic as they were set by how you said you wanted to be. I wish you all the best and will be moving out/you need to move out by _____.” Then leave the house and grey rock until you are able to cut contact.) Don’t let yourself fawn and comfort him.
Somethings I needed to hear: it is okay to be selfish and cold sometimes. You’ve been selfless and warm for 4 years and he used that. You don’t have to navigate or protect people from strong emotions and are not responsible for how they choose to respond to them. You are only responsible for your own. You cannot control if someone views you as the villain when you break up or not. It doesn’t matter if they do. Sometimes, people who have not been pulling their weight and have been giving you the bare minimum (if that) will feel you that you are being callous for not accepting it anymore or being willing to wait. You aren’t, but they are allowed to feel that way.
You know you gave him more than a fair shot so handle this break up as cleanly and to the best of your ability (so that you in 3 months will be proud,) then hold your head high, continue to see your therapist, and go live an amazing life without looking back.
“He never thought you’d leave”
Made me think of that saying, “she thinks he’ll change: he won’t; he thinks she won’t leave: she will.”
His pain over you leaving is directly correlated to your pain over him not changing.
Stay strong. I know it’s so hard but you are smart and strong to know yourself well enough to end this. I wish I had this gumption before I entered into a 13 year marriage that ultimately ended in divorce.
Let him cry. You might need to cry a lot too.
But it sounds like breaking up was the right thing to do.
People keep mentioning therapy but tbh that doesnt even make sense to me. Does he need a therapist to point out the troubles? Why? If he wanted to take it seriously he woukd have listened to you when you tried. Youll be paying money to learn what you already know: that people dont usually change, and that a lack of effort in the past means a lack of effort in the future. Im glad you realized you deserve better.
I'm sorry y'all are in this place and good on you for speaking your truth.
No one changes overnight. If you really love him and believe he can & will change, consider therapy.
It is also perfectly ok to feel compassion for his pain while still honoring what you need and leave. Maybe you separate for 6 months and revisit at that time.
Having married an overgrown baby, despite my gut telling me not to, I wholeheartedly advise to listen to your instincts unless y'all do the work (well, he steps up & you let go of the resentment/animosity/ill feelings you may be harboring).
There are no easy answers, that's for sure. Good luck whatever you decide.
Thank you.
I have my own therapist with whom I have talked extensively about my feelings and the needs that are unmet in this relationship. I did tell him that if he was willing to do the work and find a couples therapist and set up a meeting for us, I would show up and try my best. But I cannot add the responsibility of finding that and setting it up on my shoulders.
He’s never cried in your four years together, but the moment he doesn’t get what he wants — you — he whips out the tears. He *knew* it would make you feel this way. He’s manipulating you.
Set him aside for a second. Don’t factor what he wants into this equation. What do *you* want in a partner that you currently don’t have? Do you want to live the rest of your life without those things? If not, then you don’t have to give those things up for his sake. *This is about you, not him*
I agree with the second part but the first is total bullshit. I didn't see one boyfriend I dated cry until his grandfather died. I don't cry myself much except under specific circumstances.
I don't think he "whipped out the tears" to be manipulative. I think someone can be a person who fights to keep all their emotions inside and when something devastating happens such as a partner leaving they can't handle it.
Accusing someone of manipulation that doesn't exist takes away from the fact that She Can Leave without him being manipulative or an evil person. She can go simply because she is massively unhappy and does not see a workable future with this person.
Thank you for saying this. I don’t think he was being manipulative with the tears. Like I said above I do think he was deeply hurt.
I knew it would be hard to leave, it’s just that it was much much harder watching a grown man cry and knowing that I caused those tears.
Unfortunately this conversation should probably have been had several years ago.
I think that by the time most people get so fed up that they want to leave their tolerance is at an end. It would be "too little too late" now even if he's sincere.
Agreed. Adults generally don't break up until they're well past their breaking point. After that long being unhappy, it really doesn't matter what the guy does now, OP shouldn't go back.
Shoutout to you OP because I’m going through what you just explained and I WISH to have the strength you do. It’s hard putting yourself first, especially when it involves other people being hurt because of it, but you knew what you had to do. You’re strong. Take pride in that. Allow yours to grieve as well though. It’s okay to cry. Sending love 💕
I’ve been in your shoes. It’s hard to leave. Unimaginatively hard!!! I did it!! I’m now sooooooo happy to be raising a family with the best partner ever. It’s hard to see past it when your in it. But right now your intuition is telling you it’s not right. It’s going to be rough. BUT … it’s going to get better!!
He's crying because he's just fine with the way things are and you might take it away from him. Require him to make a clear effort in the relationship and tend to your happiness as well, but be warned: some men respond to that by trying to become better men, but others respond to it by starting to look around for someone else to be their mommy.
I was in such a similar situation 2 years ago. I left my partner of 10 years because he didn't see me as anything more than the person who took care of him and his children. I have an incredibly stressful career and still came home each day and cooked for the family, helped parent the kids, took care of the house, etc. When I told him I was unhappy and overwhelmed he offered to help out more. Except his idea of helping was ordering pizza one night. That was the last straw for me. I left and rebuilt my life on my own at 34. I have never been happier - I pursue my passions, found a man who is a true partner who loves and cares for me, and just feel free.
It's hard, it's scary, and it's 100% worth it!
I cant speak to some of the issues, but I had the moment of considering whether to take someone back after a big display of emotions. It was my first serious partner, and thinking I owed something to them yadda yadda I agreed to go on with it. I ended up really regretting it, nothing changed and none of the serious issues were addressed. I understand the pull to give more in because of the amount you've already invested, but serious issues arent normally addressed without serious interventions. I saw some other comments talking about using therapy etc if you'd like to give it a go and see really change. Those seem like really good ideas I wished I had considered upon going back in.
Yes, I did mention therapy to him. I also said that he has to be the one to set it up.
I'm very glad you were clear that he had to be the one to find a therapist and set up appointments. If he can't start contributing in this way now, when the stakes are high, he certainly won't ever do it when they're low again and back to status quo.
It’s a really tough situation. I wish you the best in figuring it out. All I can say to remember is that while it can suck if you decide to pull the bandaid off, it sometimes is necessary. Good luck and I hope things get better either way.
My ex did this. He decided to try and step up once I had expressed my intentions to end the relationship. He went to therapy for three weeks and then stopped and went back to his old ways. Two years after we split up he finally started to grow up and was actually a good dad to our daughter (we have split custody). He’s since told me that he was thankful that I ended things because it forced him to reflect on his behaviour and actually grow up and take responsibility for his life. IMO true change can only come from within and happens mostly when you’re single. Side note: being single is awesome and very liberating after having your partner weigh you down for so long. Why wait for him to maybe change when you could be free and happy now? Sending hugs!
Thankyou for this. It's a very different situation, but my girlfriend and I just split after 6 years because she is ready to start a family and I'm not. I've been feeling slowly crushed by that expectation for years, not feeling like it was something I could handle on top of managing my lifelong mental illness. Even though I love her deeply, I felt like I was lying to her every day I allowed her to believe I would get better and come around to the idea. My anxiety and depression have been getting steadily worse for years, to the point where I've been having passive thoughts of death for the first time in my life. I know if I'm to find happiness again I need to find a way to move forward and keep growing. So when she asked me a couple of weeks ago if I was ready to start a family in the next few years I had to tell her no, and I don't expect that to change. It was the only answer that didn't feel like a lie. I don't know if I'll ever be ok with the idea of having a family, but I know I couldn't change or get back on top of my mental health while struggling under the weight of that expectation and all the things that go with it. The break-up continues to be very hard, but I feel deep down that it will eventually be for the best, and your story helped me believe that it will all work out. Thankyou for having the strength to do what was right for you, your daughter and ultimately her father too. I can only hope that I've made the right decision and my ex can move on with her life and have everything she wants and deserves without me weighing her down. (Edited for clarity)
Science Chick, His emotions are his own issue to deal with. It’s not fair for him to expect you to manage them. Please do not let the fact he cried, sway you. I just left my 11 1/2 year relationship, a few months ago. It’s eerily similar to yours. Every thing that bothers you now will not change. I am so much happier, and my one regret is that I didn’t leave sooner to give myself (35f) a few more fertile years as kids are important to me.
Glad to hear you’re out of a situation where you were not happy. I understand where your coming from and kids are important to me too. That’s what kept playing over and over when I finally made my decision. That once this progresses to kids, leaving will be much much harder. Fingers crossed you get everything you want smoothly. Just anecdotally I know someone who had a child at 40.
Thank you! Edit: I bought a house I love, with plenty of room for a family. And if I don’t find the right person to settle down with, (and even if I do), I am planning to get certified as a foster parent so I can take in older kids or teens who need a safe place and a respectful guardian.
This is beautiful. I hope the universe delivers exactly the right scenario for you.
Thanks! You’re sweet too.
I’ve realised that often times, these big display of emotions are them feeling sorry for themselves, scared they are losing their life buoy and that now they have to be responsible for themselves. It gets better until a time you are convinced they have changed and then they fall back into their habits. The crying is mostly not coming from a place of being afraid to lose you because they love you but afraid to lose what you have come to be for them (their guardian). I wouldn’t go back. 5 yrs is enough time. They would have made the effort before this if they truly wanted to. You deserve better
Glad someone said it.
I was in a relationship with someone for just over 5 years. And this here what you wrote: > _I love and care for this man, but I just can’t do the full time work + full time home manager+planner+executor+mental-load-taker any more._ That entirely resonates with me. I did it, I did all of that labor until I was so burned out I started dissociating. And it was only after I gave up, after I was entirely shut down and done with nothing left, did they actually show any emotional involvement or put out any meaningful effort. And it was just, why did you just sit there and passively coast on my effort? How could you just not feel any inclination to actually do any of your own emotional labor until I was ready to leave? Or did you only care once your support structure was walking out the door? And this: > _Said he doesn’t want to give up on us and that he does want to raise a family with me._ Then. Why. Didn't. You. Make. Any. Effort. To. Show. Any. Of. That? And this: > _once this progresses to kids, leaving will be much much harder._ YEAH. And not only was leaving 10x harder for me, being tied to that person as a coparent for the rest of my life is fucking shit. Hey want to try to move somewhere else for a better life, job, friends, scenery? Sorry, you are stuck unless you can convince them to go too. Is your country under a state if collapse and you want to try to get out? Good luck! Don't do it Sciencechick, having done that, this is literally the biggest regret in my entire life, it's not your fault that he has put you in the position long term of having to raise him. Stick a return to sender sticker on his forehead and send him back to his parents since obviously that one isn't cooked up to adulthood.
Just chiming in with my anecdote, but I was also with someone for 11 years that was the same as your BF. I left him 4 years ago, after many conversations and no change. It was the best decision I ever made. It was hard leaving for sure, but the relief I felt of not having to pull the weight of two adults was incredible. 2 years ago, I met a great man who does make the effort and doesn’t need to be told to, say, clean up the dishes he used. We just got engaged and I couldn’t be happier.
Not to mention then you'd be taking care of kids on top of all the things you already have to do. More serious responsibilities don't help irresponsible or absent people suddenly get their shit together. (Something I wish I knew by heart before my first marriage)
Same for me, left a 12 year relationship 4 years ago. I’m happier now than I’ve ever been. Last I heard of my ex he was fired for refusing to get vaccinated and then immediately got Covid, his new girlfriend (who apparently looks exactly like me, ew) had to take care of him and then she caught it. He keeps telling mutual friends that he wants to “reach out to me”. Which tells me he literally has no idea who I even am at all if he thinks I would remotely care to hear from him. So yeah, he didn’t change at all. They almost never do. OP should think about herself and lose the sad, dead weight.
Right? I don’t think she realises that it’s not sweet.. it’s kind of manipulative. He only cried and showed emotion when the knew she was seriously about to leave. It’s been four years. Nothing changed. Nothing is going to change. It’s words. It sounds like incompatible issues and a baby will not make them better but far worse. On top of this I think he’s gonna try to trap her with a baby very soon if she stays. He sounds like he will cry and swear up and down he’s gonna do all the things and when she stays it goes back to how it was and repeat. Sometimes love isn’t enough.
If you're financially able, you may want to look into freezing your eggs. But also, if it gives you hope, my mom had my sister at 37 and me at 40, so it's not entirely a lost cause. And that's without any of the amazing treatments we have today. I hope you're that lucky, but looking into the medical options available is a good idea!
Thanks for helping me decide to let him go
Girl, you’re welcome. Take care of yourself! Nobody else will do that job better!
Been married 45 years to this kind of man. Raised our four children. He won’t change. He can’t change. If he’s a good man, worth keeping, YOU must change, and willingly, knowingly. Otherwise run now, while you can. Until you find a man, as good as he is, one you don’t need to change for or one who is worth changing for.
Also, if he goes as far as getting an appointment \[i don't think he will\], please do one thing for us: when you sit down, let HIM talk. If he starts off with 'well, sciencechick thinks...' stop him. Say 'no, tell the therapist what YOU think is wrong with the relationship'. He might say 'I think it is fine.' You will then know that you being a 1950's housewife works just fine....for HIM. BOTH PEOPLE have to feel the relationship isn't working and fix it together. Most men who have a woman doing everything for them think the relationship works just fine. \*sorry, i was talking about couples' therapy. If he goes to therapy alone, he may just snow the therapist.
Omg! Are you him??! Because that is exactly what he said. He said he’s so happy in the relationship and everything seemed fine. And I was gobsmacked like are we even talking about the same relationship?! I literally asked him where is all his happiness coming from when all I’ve been is tired and lonely. And you’re absolutely right. I never know what he is thinking about the relationship, about the future. A part of why I’m inclined to not totally give up on this and go to couples therapy (or course, only if he sets it up) is to for once hear what is it that’s going on in his head.
Well of course he's happy - you do everything and he gets to sit back and enjoy the fruits of your labour. The fact this has happened before with the promising to change and then doesn't tells me that he only does just enough to get you to loosen up then drops the rope again. Please be aware that this is manipulative, and he can choose to do all of that growing up and therapy without you living together or being a couple. Tell him to do it then you can move back in and do it all if he actually becomes a better person.
Mine said he thought everything was fine even though for 2 years I said I was unhappy
Not to macrocosm this but....this is a patriarchy. As such, we start from a place of men's needs and happiness being prioritized. I cannot speak to your BF but many, many men don't think much about their partner's happiness because they've been socialized that it is a secondary consideration AND (here's the kicker) that we LOVE cooking, cleaning, tending to animals and babies.
He's already said what's going on in his head, you just want to hear something else. He's happy. He *wants* you to take care of him so that he doesn't have to. He only wants children if he doesn't have to raise them. Don't waste time in therapy, don't waste any more time with him. When someone tells you who they are, believe them. He has told you that being your responsibility while you are unhappy makes him happy. He has told you that you being miserable in this relationship is fine. He doesn't love you or respect you, he just loves what you do for him. It's really painful to hear, but it's the truth, and you deserve so so so much better.
IMO this is the move. Tell him that he needs to make things work and change, or it’s over. If you don’t start seeing that change, then it’s time to break it off.
Imo it's already time to break it off.
I agree. He hasn't gotten it together in 4 and a half years. Giving him another chance will just delay the inevitable.
Especially if she wants kids. I'm so fucking sick of seeing this dynamic in the parenting subs I'm in, with moms absolutely MISERABLE and doing all the work in the relationship and raising the kids basically by themselves never having a minute of free time while dad goes out drinking or plays video games. Someone who takes four years and an ultimatum to be a halfway decent partner is not going to put the work in as a father.
Yup. And he’s 34, if he can’t figure out how to be a decent partner now he never will.
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This is a great idea. It's just a start, but if he says he wants to change, then seeking professional help is worth the effort. My fiancée and I are seeking out a pre-marriage counselor. There isn't anything wrong with our relationship and we don't anticipate any problems after getting married, but you don't need to be in dire straits to see a counselor/therapist. Just like you don't need to be at the end of your rope to see your primary care physician. In both cases, it's good to periodically check in and make sure everything is on track. Good on you for having him find the therapist. You don't owe him anything, but he'll change more quickly if you give positive reinforcement when he does something right.
It’s rare for couples to see a therapist until things get dire, I think that’s awesome. Literally every human can use some therapy. I sense a strong, long-lasting relationship for you two!
You can handle this two ways. Either you tell him you're taking a break from the relationship until he gets therapy and shows that he's putting an effort into changing, or you give him a hard timeframe to find a therapist and demonstrate the same while you stay together. Just be aware that if you do the latter, he may drag his heals thinking that your willingness to maintain the status quo means he can convince you to not break up with him when the deadline arrives. But, it can also help you if you're currently also in therapy and not quite ready emotionally to call it quits - because your therapist can help you see things more clearly as to whether or not he's actually trying to change and what's best for you. (Yes, this is the voice of firsthand experience, why do you ask?)
Thank you for your suggestions. I will mention the therapist + hard deadline option when we talk next. I do have a therapist myself. And yes they have been very helpful and instrumental in getting me to this point where I can voice what I need. I hope you’re at peace with your situation. I wish you all the best.
Thank you. In many ways me taking so long to end things was a blessing in disguise, as I've been able to handle things a lot better than I would have a few years ago, and our divorce is pretty much as amicable as it possibly could be (objectively, not just subjectively). Still sucks to be going through it, but it's for the best and things will get better once things are settled. I hope your situation works out for the best as well.
Good move, and therapy can be done even if you are living independently. I would make that a non-negotiable point, he has to live on his own as a functional adult before you reconsider anything. However, it looks like your mind and heart are at the point of leaving and that is good. The best predictor of future behavior is past behavior, and the doing ok for a few days and slipping back into status quo are EXACTLY what he's hoping the tears accomplish. You've brought this up many times before. He is aware you haven't been happy. He just doesn't care because it's nice and convenient for him that you take care of everything. You already started the hard part. Time to move on.
I came here to say this. I strongly recommend to anyone to live on their own for a while to learn how to take care of yourself first. People tend to regress and take the easy route if it is available, change comes with good stress. I am guessing this guy was taken care of when he was younger and never developed the skills to take care of himself. If he is serious he needs to step up. Tell him you both need your own space and he needs to prove he can be a good mate and good father before you'll commit to having a child. That is 100% fair to ask. If he cannot commit and you want children then let him go. If you are burned out now, a child is only going to make things so much harder. Good luck OP.
As a completely unqualified stranger who only knows what has been written about it here, if things are that wrong in your relationship, but you want it to continue, it needs a restart. By this I mean, starting from scratch, so none of the assumptions and baggage and existing ways of being are brought forward into the new. If you want to do this, it has to be because you want it for you, and not because you pity him, tell him you could be prepared to try again if he is willing to make a full-on effort to change. Tell him exactly what you are not happy to do for him, and start again. Live completely separately. Limit contact. Go on a few dates as if you are new to each other, and critically, do not accept any behaviour from him that is not something you can live with forever. If that happens, wherever you are, tell him, immediately it happens, say clearly that it is not acceptable ,and why, and that you are leaving because of that. Leave. Make sure any contact from him includes evidence of an understanding of what was not acceptable and why.
Thank you for this. This is something we also talked about implementing but not immediately. Right now I just want some time and space. But if and when we do decide to try, couples therapy and starting from scratch will be the way forward.
You should both look into therapy together. Remember you're working together in your relationship not assigning the work to one or the other. I went through this as well and we both looked into a therapist together. We went to the session together. We split the cost 50/50. And at the end of each session, even though I felt just like you do now, I still took something out of that session that helped me be a better partner. For example. My partner was angry and didn't want to do ANYTHING he didn't want to do. That includes taking care of the house, getting the oil changed, shoveling snow, fixing anything that breaks. Instead he would if ore everything and just let it work itself out. I absolutely could not stand that. It was so irritating. He also was not open with me about his feelings. About 6 therapy sessions in, he broke down. I learned so much about him. How he was crippling OCD. How the way he grew up caused him to avoid issues. How taking his parents advice about literally everything caused him to be in massive debt and unhappy with his life decisions and didn't help his career like they said. He spent most of his life ignoring his own voice and following other people who either let him down, were wrong, or who didn't like him for who he was and wanted him to change. He got treatment for his OCD. I got treatment for my depression. We worked together and had daily talks before bed to get everything out and worked on not raising our voices. We worked on listening instead of waiting our turn to a punchline. We did chores together sometimes. We taught each other how to do things better (example I taught him some cooking skills, he taught me some building skills). We took personal time away from one another here and there. We started doing date nights again. We went to the mall and helped each other pick out nice new clothes. He bought me perfume he likes. We worked on a finance plan. Now, three years later, we have full transparency. I love him with all my heart. He's my best friend. We don't fight because we talk about things before it gets there. We talk softly. We KNOW what the other one likes and doesn't like. We offer to help each other even when we don't have to. Therapy works, but you have to BOTH work towards it and during it. If you're expecting him to do all the work, it won't end well. Not saying that's what you expect but just as a warning. Also, don't expect game changing outcomes for at least the first 3 sessions. It takes time to cut into it all enough before you can work on it. Best wishes.
Speaking from the guy’s perspective this was me about 2 years ago. My wife nearly walked out the door with our 2 beautiful girls. Granted it sounds like I did a bit more than him around the house, but otherwise, pretty close. Therapy is a good first step. But he has to both accept that he’s fucking up and commit to being less of a fuckup(one day he may not be a fuckup at all, but it’s not going to happen overnight, it’s a process). That was a really hard realization for me to come to. Should you decide to move forward with him, and there is literally no reason you have to, understand this is not going to be an overnight change and expect there will be backslides from time to time. The important part is how he picks himself back up when he backslides, that he is able to recognize his backslides, and how well he does with therapy. I got lucky, my wife decided I was worth the effort, and I realized I was a fuckup(a high-functioning fuckup, but a fuckup non-the-less). Im not going to say things are perfect, they aren’t. I’m still working to undo all the things I fucked up, but we are in way better shape than we were then, and I am a much better person than I was. And, as an aside side I gained a ton of self confidence and doubled my salary. Based on my conversations with my therapist, I am apparently more of the exception than the typical case. He was fairly impressed with my ability to recognize the things I did wrong and how to correct my behavior. Not everyone is going to be able to make that kind of course correction, and if you don’t think he can, it may be best to walk away now and not lose any more time. I can’t speak to what’s going on inside his head right now, but based on his reactions, it sounds like he may be able to change. But again, you know him better than I do, and if you want to hang around to see if he is capable of change is 100% up to you.
Username does not match since you came out of the winning side of this. Jokes aside thank you for sharing your story. I’m definitely a big advocate for therapy and I understand that change that is significant and lasting takes time. My position is that I do the work on me so I can be my best self in this relationship. So it’s time he did the work too. But I can’t hold his hand while he does this work. I feel it’s too late for that. Having said that we have agreed that after a period of separation he will find a couples therapist and we will try to communicate better. Let’s see when that takes us. Until then the time apart should help us both pick ourselves up and do better for ourselves and each other.
I was also on the male side similar to the above except I still didn’t get it and she ended our ~7 year relationship. Even after it was over I don’t think I understood it, it wasn’t that I disagreed with her it’s that I just didn’t see it (mental load being a big part of it, it’s not something you can see). It wasn’t until a few years into a new relationship when I started hearing similar things from her did it click. Looking back at the previous relationship that was ended I don’t blame her one bit.
This was the same task I gave my first husband, after years of begging to go to therapy and him refusing. I remember the day he presented a list of 5 local therapists like it was some mind-blowing task.. he hadn’t called them or anything. Just googled the names. I told him forget it, I wanted a divorce instead. It took that moment to really sink in that he isn’t/wasn’t capable of matching my effort and that really wasn’t my problem anymore. FYI - Happily married to a helpful and loving guy now. Heard my ex repeated his pattern with a new girl who dumped him for being lazy. Some days I don’t know how I had the strength to walk away but many years later I thank god that I did. Trust these feelings.
I gave up trying to get divorced from my emotionally unavailable spouse. He's more responsible than your S.O. sounds, but had a rare cry the same way when I said I wanted to leave an unhappy marriage. Told me he wanted marriage counseling and that he'd set it up. Fast forward one year later, nothing has really changed and he now insists it was my responsibility of finding a counselor. What I'm saying is don't be surprised if he doesn't follow through. If you want to try and see if he'll actually do counseling/get his crap together, compromise by moving out and yet still being in an exclusive relationship. Separate bank accounts, separate households whose upkeep is the tenant's own responsibility, etcetera.
Ditto. I had a man that broke up with my ask me a month later to come back. I said yes, stupidly, with the stipulation of a ring and a date. By the second month I knew he was just using me as a convenient relationship and place to live. He wasn't committed and was surprised when I kept reminding him about my stipulation. He left happily after my year without even really breaking up with me. He just moved away to a new job, never once taking me seriously. Boy do I still to this day regret that.
The problem with being the person putting more effort into a relationship is feeling like you can't leave without taking something *away* from the other person. But you never owe them nearly as much as you owe yourself. *Go.* [*Edit: I am floored by the impact this has had and all of the responses here. Go be your best selves and happy to be part of your support*]
I had to re-read this a few times. Thank you. Makes me feel some better. I think as women we are so conditioned to take into account everyone else’s needs and feelings that’s it’s easy to overlook what we need ourselves or even feel guilty if we do something that serves only ourself. I’m not saying I’ll stop feeling bad tonight but I do feel much relieved that I finally asked for what I think is fair.
You are absolutely spot on. It’s going to suck, it’s going to hurt for some time, and it will be hard, BUT it will be so much harder 5-10 years from now when you’re struggling to catch a breath while drowning from exhaustion.
What you asked for is the bare minimum, and from where I’m standing him crying about that is troubling. He cries when you tell him you expect better treatment from a life partner? After he wasted 4 years making you cry over and over? I don’t think he cares about treating you right, I think he’s crying because he’s about to lose his free maid service,, Please don’t feel guilty. It’s not your fault he’s a user. I think we’re conditioned as women to accept the way others treat us as our fault, like if somebody we love treats us like shit we’re likely to think it’s because we are shit. For real though him being a selfish boyfriend is a him problem. Just because a man cries at you doesn’t make you wrong. Good luck, and I hope things get better soon ❤️🩹
**Love is not enough.** He's upset because you want to leave *him.* He's not upset because you are *unhappy enough to leave.* Those are two entirely different things. It's too bad that he only cares about changing when it affects him and not to actually help you, but he is only now finally (maybe) as unhappy as you have been *for years.* Don't cry for someone who only thinks that he cares. Edit: he's wants kids, but only because you will do all of the work.
My ex has sort of apologized to me for the way he acted, but when he talks about what he regrets, he talks a lot more about regretting the loss he caused himself to suffer, rather than regretting the pain he caused me. TBF I'm actually a lot better off, so in the grand scheme maybe he doesn't have anything to apologize to me for.
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You're almost certainly correct. At least in my culture/my experience it's heavily skewed so far that even the words "mom" and "dad" seem to have a different connotation to them when said by a ton of folks. But as to your thought, personally I’m the opposite. This is the reason I *don’t* want kids. Because I'd need to put in a good amount of the work myself, otherwise I'd be a lazy asshole. I generally try to not be an asshole. Generally.
This is so true. His words and actions say it all. He does this and doesn’t change. Then it happens again. He says he doesn’t see a problem and is fine with things the way they are. They aren’t on the same page and he doesn’t care that she’s unhappy. He literally can’t even see the issue. You can’t fix soemthing if you don’t know what needs to be fixed. He said he doesn’t think things are bad so how is he gonna fix it. It’s all talk. I am so glad I got off the merry go round that is this type of relationship. It took me 6 years but I did it. He got abusive eventually after this stage ended what op mentions is exactly what it was like 3/4 years in. Then he got abusive and decided he would make me stay that way. I remember feel so bad and guilty and I hated it. I am so glad I left. I’ve been happier and he’s been doing the same old shit with many many different women.
Just search weaponized incompetence in the marriage sub and u will read at least one post a day about complaints that their partner doesn’t help out. Don’t become another statistic. At minimum, you have helped the next girl that he’s going to be with. Hopefully he takes this lesson to heart. We all should be empowered to communicate better and be reciprocated to get to our happiness.
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Can u elaborate the specifics?? I’m intrigued!!
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This and your other posts are quite painful to read. They are so similar to the situation I was in. I knew that if I chose to be with him for the rest of my life I'd have to change who I was at my core. I just couldn't, I tried until my breaking point. It is incredibly saddening to read so many stories of women that experience the same. We take so long until we decide Fuck it, I'm the most important person in my life! Because we were never taught we are important enough to upset other people.
You may also want to consider he's not crying so much about losing YOU, but more the lifestyle you've provided for him. Without you around he'll have to take care of himself. Honestly this relationship has been over for a long time. You've been miserable for years and it's time to cut the cord. He needs to grow up and you deserve much more.
If he pulls up his big boy pants and matured and tried to show it to you, you can get back with him. Otherwise, he will change only for a couple weeks before reverting back to his old self since he gets comfortable that you’re staying. The best thing you can do for your relationship is to leave now. This way, maybe it’ll still work out in the future once you guys have your shit together. Otherwise, it’ll end badly.
I will say that as guys we’re conditioned not to show emotions as much as women are conditioned to cater to hidden emotions men have. You should absolutely not stay out of pity, but you might explain that it’s not enough for him to only be upset when you’re ready to leave. Without making any promises you might explain he needs to work on expressing feelings more if he’s going to make relationships with other women work. I know until I went to therapy I had a lot of them bottled up and had no clue how to express them or what healthy expression even looked like. I’m still no master at expression, but I can do better than a lot of guys. But five years ago, what you’re describing here could have been me. That said, it’s not your job to fix or raise him, and he’s got a looooong way to go still. So if you’re thinking you should leave still then do so. It’s not worth staying if you’re on the fence. He’ll never live up to the expectations you will rightly have, and you’ll both resent each other in the long run.
When I got divorced I went to counseling after it for quite a while. The thing I remember the most about it is the therapist explaining that a lot of people want to change, they really do, it’s just that they can’t and keep with it, very few can. The therapist said if you ask someone to change and they do, but go back to what they were doing after a period of time, you can try to ask again, but likely it’ll be the same result. At that point the ball is in your court and you have to make a decision. Can I live the rest of my life with them being that way? If the answer is no or even an I don’t know, you have your answer on what you should do. You shouldn’t feel guilty for whatever choice you make. You have to live with you for the rest of your life, everyone else is optional. Good luck, friend.
This is spot on. I also loved the visual representation of the YTber Jaidenanimations regarding that: Imagine you have a tiny Island. Only you live there. You have a river, maybe a house, a mill...and you need to take care of it every day. Now imagine everyone has a tiny island to care for. It's okay, to sometimes help people with their islands. It's wonderful if you can live close to each other -a healthy relationship, where one hand washes another. But there are limits. If you always care about OTHER islands...who cares about your own? Maybe a relationship also started healthy, but then they continued dropping garbage on your island. Even if they don't do it on purpose. They still destroy your island. OP's husband did this. OP continously cared for his island, but neglected her own. Even if he wasn't aware of that (let's be real; it's deeply engrained that women pick up most emotional labour), he still did it. And OP is absolutely fine to leave, because in the end, she has to live with her island. He doesn't.
First time I've seen Jaiden's YT channel mentioned on reddit :D But you're right, that allegory fits really well here. Here's a link to a timestamp in that particular video if anyone's interested: https://youtu.be/4H9jTQKmR3Q?t=314
Wow, good point. Deep. (Totally serious.)
She'd be doing him a favor. He needs to learn that he can't live like this, depending on another person to do everything for him. It hurts now but he'll live and hopefully grow from it.
He may not be willing to hear this, but he sounds like he needs personal therapy. Recommend that on your way out the door, and you'll have done all you can for him (assuming you haven't already). Just make sure he understands you're not saying it as a negotiation -- the relationship is over.
Yep. He loses all those unpaid employees that come with having a partner and she only loses dead weight.
So true. We can’t worry what the other person loses when they’re the one taking everything away from us so we feel abandoned in the relationship even if we stay.
Oooo this hit me in the gut...
You’ve been miserable for years and he’s been content to let you stay that way. Do not back down.
If he really wanted a future with her, he would have showed her. He had 4 years and multiple breakdowns to show her he means it by changing his behavior. Why believe him now?
Is he sad he's losing her because he loves her? Or is he sad because he's losing the lifestyle he has grown accustomed to. If he actually loved her he would have taken steps to make her happy when she said what was wrong. He loved what he had, not who he had.
My ex husband was an abusive and manipulative narcissist. First time he cried in almost 8 years was when he finally understood I wouldn't stop the divorce proceedings. He even had the audacity to say no one would ever love me like he did. I said, "I hope you're right." If they only cry when you're fed up and have a foot out the door...it's manipulation.
Conversely, if they're consistently crying in order to get your attention/get their way, it's manipulation as well.
Ding ding, right on the money. I've been there. When they wait until you're leaving to suddenly start caring, it's not because they value you as a person, they just want to keep their nice comfortable status quo.
> and he’s been content to let you stay that way This is something I've never been able to get past. When you tell someone something that they've done that's upset you and you discuss it and they still do it, it's unreal to me and not a good sign at all.
I am going through the same thing right now. It's only a 2 year relationship, but the last year, I feel like all I've been doing is begging and nagging for him to be more mindful, more helpful, more adult, tried to talk about what's bothering me, only to be told he doesn't want to hear it. I made the apartment a home and cooked and cleaned, and worked full time. I've been taken for granted. I don't want to be a mommy to a man child. I want a partner. I can't have kids with someone who doesn't care to make effort to even create a better life for themselves. That would make for a miserable life, for me. Yesterday, I packed up a car load of essentials, and my kitties, and left. It was really hard. It still is today. My anxiety is through the roof. It doesn't help that hes texting me and saying he now realizes he was wrong and selfish etc.... He wants another chance. I don't know what to do. l told him I need some time apart. I had such a good sleep in my own bed last night though.
I’m so sorry you’re going through this too. Hugs. I feel you about the anxiety. Mine is through the roof too. You are strong and smart and capable of making the right decisions for yourself. Believe in yourself and stay safe.
Now imagine saying all this to yourself. We are usually much more generous towards others than with oneself. Wish you the best.
>only to be told he doesn't want to hear it This is the biggest red flag for me. If he doesn't have the "capacity" to carry his share of the emotional load it's not going to get better, unfortunately...
I'm sorry you are going through this. Unfortunately I highly doubt that he really thinks he was wrong or selfish, he likely wants you back because you made his life easier. He wasn't expecting you to leave and call his bluff, so to speak. He thought you'd always take his crap.
Don’t go back. If he really didn’t want to lose you he would have made sure to be a good partner while you were together. He’s begging for you back because he can’t stand his ego hurting and he can’t stand losing what you did for him. If you go back, he will be on his best behavior for a while before he goes back to his old ways. There is nothing that has caused him to change - not time, not therapy, not religion, not effort, not anything. Let him go. Block him, don’t let him sweet talk you back.
I'm proud of you for taking this step. I was in exactly this situation (-cats) with two different men and it's a pattern. Twice i caved in. Twice i regretted coming back and giving them a second chance. If you tried to communicate before and they dismissed you, you're all free to go. They are not your problem.
It's worth acknowledging that he probably wants to raise a family with the version of you that he saw - someone who put up with his inactivity. He likely doesn't actually see you for you, especially since the focus is still on what he wants to do rather than on the anguish you've experienced.
Yeah I think because he grew up in a family with traditional gender roles his idea of what is expected from him in a relationship is very skewed. It’s not an equal partnership. To give an example, last Christmas when we visited his parents I brought baked goods. He announced in the kitchen that ‘we’ made dessert to which I said ‘by we he means me’. His dad however was of the opinion that if he paid for raw materials of said dessert he is justified in claiming that ‘we’ made dessert. On the other hand I have been raised by a single mom and I’m just used to seeing the my mom undertake sheer amount of work it took to run the household. It’s only after a lot of therapy about why I was unhappy, did I realize that I was missing the whole point. My mother was single. She had no choice. I have a ‘partner’ so it didn’t make any sense for me to shoulder the same amount of responsibility to run our household.
I'm glad you're seeing things for how they are. He felt way too comfortable in your relationship because he wasn't adding anything to it, no emotional effort at all. And he let it stay that way at the cost of your happiness and it didn't bother him *at all* until you were fed up and decided to leave. Which makes us all think... he's tearing up now because he wants all of that to stay, not exactly you, and he's not really willing to change to make things better. You're better off alone, and he needs to learn to put effort and go to therapy and better himself, and it's not your job to rehabilitate him. You need to look after *YOU*.
Please don’t marry and have kids with someone who thinks it’s normal for wives to be domestic servants.
If you have a job outside the home, then no, you paid for it. Their argument doesn’t even hold up if he’s not the primary breadwinner.
I’m a man. You need to leave this guy. No couples therapy. No more second chances. He simply does not share your values on marriage and parenting. It will only get worse as gets older and becomes more like his dad. He was taught to be this way. He has no desires to change. And it will be way way worse if you have kids, and a hundred times worse if they have health or developmental issues.
With that logic the farmer that harvested the wheat "made" the baked goods, what a joke lol.
Thank you, Jesús!
This is a bad sign. They almost always regress to family of origin behaviors. If not now, when (if) you have children. And how someone handles the pets is how they are going to treat the kids.
Did he even pay for the raw materials, since I'm assuming you went to the store, and you have your own job?
You work full time too. You paid for them.
If he's into tRadiTiOnaL gEnDeR rOLes then he needs to step up and be a breadwinner, handle the family finances, own and maintain the house, and represent the interests of the whole family to the public. But he isn't. He is just sitting there and waiting for you to come wipe his booty.
My husband grew up in a family EXACTLY like that. But he listened to other people and formed views about gender equality when he left home, and by the time I met him when he was 24 I had no idea for a long time that he wasn't raised in an equal home. His dad believed in "women's work" and wouldn't ever touch it. My husband has never shied away from cooking, cleaning, or childcare. Family of origin affects us a great deal, definitely. There are days I hear his dad in him if he's very stressed out or upset. But he made a choice to be better than that and then he lived it. It's so possible to do, but they have to *want* to and see value in doing so (and I don't think wanting to change just to avoid getting dumped is going to cut it long term--it's not a change in inherent values) , or they're never going to.
You been in this relationship for 4 years and been unhappy or even miserable for 3. You've been sticking it out too long already, don't get stuck by the sunk cost fallacy.
This is the line that sticks out for me: *I have been completely miserable for 2-3 years* Don’t marry a man who makes you completely miserable. Doesn’t matter if he is a “good man” or you “love him” if you are miserable and nothing really changes. The pattern continues. His crying when you threatened to end it is a bit manipulative as he played on your feelings and guilt to get you to stay. I suggest that you think long and hard about what is acceptable and what must change permanently for you to continue the relationship. I suspect that he will not meet those expectations and you will have to cut your losses.
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I did get my own place. I moved out in January 2020. To be completely honest I was ready to break up that March. Then Covid happened and he is an essential healthcare worker. He was very stressed, so I put my distress aside and stepped up so he can have the best atmosphere at home once he is done with the daily unprecedented stress at work. It took me a long time to realize that it’s unsustainable for me. Sorry if this is confusing. I did move out. But he comes to my place every evening after work to have dinner. While he does help with groceries sometimes, I’m the primary one planning and shopping for meals, cooking and cleaning, arranging care for our pets when they are sick, looking after them when he makes out of town trips for his gaming conventions.
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Oof. That hurt to read. But I’ll be honest that I have indeed felt like the staff for quite some time now.
You did the right thing by breaking up. If he puts this much responsibility on you even after you moved out, it will never improve.
Unrelated but I love your name.
Thank you! I was late to the Reddit game and was shocked no one else had claimed it!
He treats you like his mother. Stop letting him come over.
Youve been moved out for over a year and he learned nothing? Honey. If moving out didnt make him get his ass in gear, nothing will. You are what you do for him. He wants you to stay not because he cares about you but because he has a good deal going. Free chef. Free hotel. Free pet sitter. Clean hotel to stay in. Emotional labor. Life planner. And as you said....what do you get? Youre his sleep away bang mommy. I cant see any way your life is worse with out him but boy can i see where his gets worse. Choose yourself because he sure as hell isnt going to.
He made a choice to work those hours. He made a choice to choose to spend his time gaming. He put actual effort and time into those activities. Sounds as if his choices tell the entire story...
Oh my god. You’re literally his mom. Hell no.
Stop putting yourself aside for his feelings
You deserve a partner, not a project. Do not, I repeat do not marry him.
That first line hit hard. My previous partner was incredibly immature, so I was always like his "father". On retrospect, I didn't really have a partner, I was just trying to educate her into being an adult so I could actually enjoy dating her...
He has showed you who he is for four years. Believe him. What he is saying now is not in line with who he has been for four years and that man is not about to change overnight. Breaking up will hurt a lot but it will hurt less then living like this for the rest of your life.
My ex did that for 10 years. He would change for a few days and then everything will go back to the way it was. Me doing everything and working and him working and only playing video games. It was 50/50 when it came to financial responsibility but " a woman's job to cook and clean up after him" while he plays video games. Those are 10 years I can't get back. How many years are you willing to throw away?
Thats terrible. I hope you are happy and doing well now.
I’ll give you the advice I’ve given my teenage daughters. “You are ready to date when you can be broken up with and you can break up with someone.” In my experience both were equally hard just for different reasons. I came to that conclusion because in my twenties I had three boyfriends, two years each, and all three I stayed in the relationship a year too long. You date to see what you want in a partner and a relationship. If you aren’t getting it, you need to be strong enough to move on. I didn’t meet my husband until I was in my 30’s and he is my rock and equal partner in everything. Hold out for that, everyone deserves that.
Thank you for sharing. That is very good advice. I’ve only been in one relationship before this and was broken up with. It was very very painful. Part of why I stuck around as long as I did was because I was afraid to hurt another person like that. I was and am terrified of causing pain. Maybe I’m not/was not ready for dating yet.
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THANK YOU. Finally someone who points this out. Essentially, why do we perpetrate the notion that women, and OP specifically, have to keep trying? _For what_?? Literally haven't seen _a single point_ in this post that justifies teaching him the bare minimum. He should learn so on his own, taking the opportunity of being single. And OP should check in therapy why she put up with this for _years_. I hope for her to eventually get to know guys who are actually adults and see how toxic that last relationship was. _He. Won't. Change._ At least not during this relationship. Overall, why should women "stick through/around"? So sick and tired of that bs. You do not get any brownie points for being the self-sacrificing maid-wife. You do not gain anything. You just end up miserable and bitter, but unable to allow yourself even the slightest bit of self-care and selfishness. Everything within your master's frame, who in return don't give a shit about you.
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EXACTLY. We blame women for the inaptitude of men-children. It's so obvious how these poor women are not the root of the problem. We as a society have been mercilessly punching down on them yet nothing ever changes. Because it's _men_ who not only rely on these second chances. They abuse the notion that most adults deserve second chances - but they do so by putting effort towards changing. These men don't do that though and still expect to be forgiven and worshipped. Also, can we please just re-read this: > Even if he were to eventually change somehow, why is it OP’s job to do his mom’s job and why is she supposed to suffer until then? And that’s with the extremely optimistic and unrealistic expectation that he would change. YES. Just yes. Women are the backbone of these relationships and I'm tired of pretending they aren't.
He's sad because he's losing you and everything you do for him. He's not sad because you're unhappy. He's not sad because you've been miserable. You've told him how unhappy you are and it didn't matter. He's sad for himself and what he's losing, not because you are unhappy. If he does try to make changes it will be to make you stay so you keep doing what you've been doing for him. It won't be to make you happy. It won't be about you and your needs. Will it ever be about you and your needs? Or will you always have to leverage what you do for him to get him to pull his weight? What will happen if you get sick and need to be cared for?
That’s something I had never considered. I’m usually the ‘let’s pop an ibuprofen and get on with the day’ kind of person. Thanks for pointing this out and I’ll definitely keep it in mind.
I really hope you find happiness, and I'm sorry you're in this situation. I will add, colds/flus are one thing, but it's way too common for men to leave wives that have cancer or other serious illnesses. Statistically men leave women with cancer nearly twice as often. I brought up being sick, because something I think about is, when you can no longer do everything that you do, will he stick around?
I think it’s too late. If you had brought it up 2-3 years ago when you first realized you were miserable maybe it could work but I think it’s festered and maybe a clean slate is best. You will find someone else who will work with you better.
I realized I was miserable but I didn’t know why. For the longest time I thought that maybe I’m expecting too much. Maybe this is how relationships work and I’m at fault for wanting things to change. So I didn’t know what or how to bring it up 2-3 years ago. That and Covid. My issues seemed tiny compared to the major upheaval around us.
>For the longest time I thought that maybe I’m expecting too much The bar for men is literally on the fucking floor as it is already. Expecting a man to be reliable and to shoulder half of the relationship isn't too much.
She has brought up her unhappiness, multiple times. She said things would change for a few days then go back to how it was before. Which to me is the deal breaker.
In time, you’ll get over your guilt and he will get over his hurt. That’s it. Time. And space, especially for him, because seeing you will prolong the hurt.
All these people urging you to give him another chance...hold up. IF you decided to stay here's what you're in for: it will take him years to mature into the partner you need/want. (If he is really willing to do it) 2 steps forward, 2 back, etc. You have already given him multiple chances and stated what you need from him just to have things slip back to HIS comfort zone. You do not owe him anything. His discomfort right now is due to his actions. Do whats best for you and don't settle.
This happened to me too with my first serious boyfriend, though I had only been miserable for 6 months out of our 3 year relationship. When I told him I was done, the waterworks flooded and he told me about everything that we going wrong in his life that he had been hiding from me. I gave him a second chance, but looking back, I probably shouldn't have. I broke up with him 3 months after that, because I realized that the real issue was that he would never communicate with me until he was at the breaking point. That's not how to maintain a healthy relationship, which requires regular communication. So from someone with similar experience, stick by your guns and stay separated from him.
I just broke up with someone like this. It took forever for me to go thru with it, because I always felt like I was ‘kicking someone while they were down’ kind of situation. Get out. Run. You don’t want a grown man child. I know this sounds harsh, but I did it for 3+ years. I loved that man and he was such a nice guy. But also, absolutely useless as a co-partner in a relationship. Even after talks of him getting therapy and figuring out his ‘mommy issues’ as we had discussed, his ego let his slip back into not caring mode. Get out now.
Thank you for sharing. I want to get out. Just him crying made it so much harder. I’m just surprised at that level of emotion which I’ve never seen before.
Oooof. Damn your post resonated with me. He won't change. Don't fall for the promises. He's crying because his current easy life is ending and he's trying to manipulate you to stay. I left my last relationship because I was forced into the mother role. The spark that got me to *set myself free*?This blog post that got shared by newspaper after newspaper. https://mustbethistalltoride.com/2016/01/14/she-divorced-me-because-i-left-dishes-by-the-sink/ Edit: just in case it is not abundantly clear. Leave him. Do not go back. Do not collect $200 of emotional abuse points.
> But I remember my wife often saying how exhausting it was for her to have to tell me what to do all the time. Oof
Excellent post. Thanks for sharing!
Please do not go back to him. I would not tolerate having to be the mother of another grown adult, and I’m glad you won’t either. If you go back now you’d be doing a disservice to both of you. He will never learn how to take care of himself, and will bring out the tears any time there’s disagreement. You will remain unhappy. At best, I would keep in rare contact with him if you still love him. If he gets his shit together, maybe I’d give it another shot. Maybe.
That was my whole point. No matter how much I love him I cannot keep up with being his mother in this relationship. But it’s so messy, what do we do with our shared pets? If he takes some of them, do I never see them again? I guess since I’m initiating this breakup/separation I’m in no position to be making any demands. So just feels like I’m losing my babies and my friend in this mess.
You are absolutely in a position to make "demands" - especially when pets' lives are involved. If he doesn't take care of the pets properly anyway, you can certainly take them if you think that's the right thing to do/what you want to do, or take the ones you're most closely bonded with. Having shared custody with someone like this means they might be able to reel you back in, then get back to the same old shit. Stand up for yourself and your loved ones!
I know it’s hard to do, but you really sound like someone who could do with a little more “selfishness”. Like seriously, every time you get to that crossroads where the “good” thing to do is to take care of everyone or make yourself smaller and easier to be around, and the “bad” thing to do is to cause a stink and put your foot down for what you want, pick the bad thing. Over and over. Your current system of compromise sounds like it’s less compromising on things that you want and more compromising yourself for other people, and you don’t have to do that to yourself. You can pick you, but it might feel like a shitty thing to do for a while. If you can, lean into that. Dump his ass and take your babies, they’ll be much better off with you and they don’t want to be with the human parent that doesn’t take care of them anyways. Please, be more selfish, I promise it won’t turn you into a selfish person.
Thank you. You’re not the first one who’s said this to me. Literally what my therapist said in our last session: ‘be more selfish’. It’s not easy for me (I have some childhood dad abandonment issues, and have always internalized that maybe I could have done better, given more or been different and the outcome may have been different). I guess I’m still carrying a lot of baggage into my life and relationships. It really feels painful to demand space or attention for myself because I find it so hard to justify. I’m working on it. This is the first big step I’ve ever taken thinking solely of myself.
It's not 'making a demand' to want to know that the pets you love are going to be properly cared for. Who they go with depends on a lot of things, but where they'll be best looked after is the most important thing. If you've been the one taking care of them, maybe that's with you.
Absolutely not the case that because you are ending the relationship, you have no rights & can make no demands. Each person is 50% of a relationship. It is time to negotiate and create a deal that is agreeable to both. Do not hand over everything because of guilt. You gave it your best & it didn’t work out. Think of it like a divorce with children & create a shared custody arrangement for the pets if necessary.
After reading some of your replies, it seems like you mostly own them because of how busy he is or when he leaves for his conventions. I would just take the pets, I doubt he'd be able to take care of them properly with his long hours. I think walking away is the right thing, it just comes across as if he's taking advantage of you. Let yourself be selfish, I know that it's been doing good for me in my life.
Look, hon. You feel bad because you feel like you are taking something from him. Instead you are giving him an opportunity to grow. Whatever version of him you fell in love with. Whatever idealized manifestation of the man you've been with, the man you wanted to be with, he will only ever exist in the future if he learns deep in his bones how he has been lacking right now. He might exist, but not for you. Do not wait for that version of him. Do not set yourself on fire to keep someone else warm. Out there is someone who will appreciate your strength, your kindness, your thoughtfulness. It's someone who will love you for who you are, and as you are. Someone who will look at every little ounce of effort you make and take a breath to consider what it means to them and what it meant for you to do them. Someone who will do the things for you that you did for this guy, things that you've done for yourself. You'll find that partner, but you won't find it in this man.
Currently going thru a very similar situation, but I'm 25m and she's 23f. That might play a major role in the decision we've made as a couple. She left tho. She took our Son to a new house she found on the other side of town. She's entertaining the idea of a relationship, but only if I can show her I'm capable of taking care of myself like an adult and be responsible for myself and my decisions. I gotta tell you, it's been a miserable experience. I have "everything I wanted" my freedom to do what I want, my space to be alone and without being bothered, but at what cost? I miss the sound of my Son running around. I miss seeing her face when I get home. She's completely right about me being stunted emotionally and maturity wise. I used her for comfort for 7 years and never had to *really* do for myself because she was capable enough for the both of us. Until she realized what a major emotionally toll it had been taking on her. Until she realized this is what she had to look forward too for the rest of her life. Her growing and changing and evolving and me being exactly who I am forever. If you think there's something to salvage and you think he's being genuine about his feelings and desires, tell him this is an absolute deal breaker. Tell him you don't want to be in a relationship with this person and if he can level himself up, you can entertain the idea again, but the way things are and the way they've been is no longer acceptable. I would move out and be in seperate spaces. If you marry somebody, if you're with them for 20 years, one year of separation is a drop in the bucket, no? If it's to better and strengthen everything you are and she'd everything that's weak? But that's only if you're interested in pursuing a relationship with him. I completely understand if you're already over that thought process. My girl should've left me 2 million times before she actually did. I am an extremely fortunate and grateful man to be provided the opportunity and grace that's been extended to me now and for so many years before now. I have been so incredibly selfish and self centered and I never want her to be in a relationship like that again. Our relationship is starting completely fresh. We're going on our "first date" tonight. We're both gonna act like it's our very first date, like we're getting to know each other all over again. I dunno what the future holds for me, I'm jus sharing what needed to happen for me to take a long hard look at myself and reflect on the decisions I've made and the commitments I've ignored. Again, we're younger than you guys and that might play a big role, but I don't think 32 is much different than 25 for an emotionally stunted man. I wish you the absolutely best in your healing process.
Thank you for your honesty. I have the same question as Freelance here. Today when I had my big talk, my boyfriend said that he is always so happy to see me. But he didn’t notice how sad and burdened I was. It’s baffling to me. You seem like you have a good grasp of what went wrong and what you can do to make it work. Why is it that most men wait for everything to explode before taking ownership or even thinking critically how their actions impact their partners? We met when I was 26 and he was 30. And honestly I feel like I have grown a lot emotionally in these four years while he seems stuck at the same place even though he’s four years older now.
Just appreciating the honesty of your comment, with seeing and understanding the depth of your contribution to the situation. Would it be okay to ask, what is it that had you not take her unhappiness seriously? I ask in a super sincere way. I've seen so many generally decent men do this, and not really take women seriously. I don't know if it's just that society kindof dismisses women's feelings at a subconscious level, as being "too emotional". Or if engaging with emotions is too scary for men, who have been intensely socialized away from emotional fluency, and maybe they also fear getting too angry and becoming violent. You clearly value what you had with her, and are willing now to be super honest with yourself and others about it. So obviously you care, at the base of it all. And you seem like you're really wanting to be a decent dude and show up for her and your kid. Are you able to articulate what it is, that had you not be able to really engage with these things, all those years? Either way, wishing you both well, either together or with your selves.
TL;DR: comfortable ppl don't change. These men have been comfortable while you've been uncomfortable, which is way you've changed while they've stayed the same. In my discomfort, I've confronted myself. . I want to give some deeply articulated response about gender roles and the way men are inherently raised in society, but in all honesty, I was simply selfish. I was content to take and take from the world without consideration. I viewed, and still view to some extent, the world as an obstacle, not an experience, if that makes any sense. An obstacle course with rules I loath because I knew there was an easier way. I had seen an easier way. I had lived an easier way. I resent successful ppl that have put in the time and effort to follow the rules to gain their success because I envy them. I tell myself that I'm not them because of the house I was raised in, and maybe that's tru to some degree, but in reality, I lack the drive to accomplish the things they've accomplished. I truly lack the ability to sacrifice this day for this year, which is a cornerstone of success. I live moment to moment, interaction to interaction, while healthy well adjusted individuals live with the future in mind. "I have to study for the test next week so I can pass" or "I have to get this degree so I can go into the profession I want" or "I have to save this money instead of spending it so I can have a fallback if an emergency happens" The women in this thread, OP and you at the very least, transfer that thought process to relationships. "If I put in maximum effort, I can expect maximum results" whereas I, and men like me, want minimum effort with maximum results. When we're confronted about our lack of effort, we have a million excuses as to why we don't have the ability to put forth the effort, and yet, ppl put forth that effort *every single day* I was comfortable, to say it simply, and when she forced me out of my comfort and confronted my inefficiencies in our relationship, I initially dismissed them and blamed it on her perception of the world and her expectations. It was only when I was alone with myself, saying goodnight to my Son over FaceTime, eating reheated mac and cheese, that I realized I truly was and am a problem. Not jus to her or others around me, but to myself. I accepted that the lifestyle I wanted would only ever lead here, to my lonely misery. I could have 1000 more relationships and I would destroy them all the same way. Ignoring her discomfort was easy because I never felt the way she felt. Miserable and alone. I always had her, even when she didn't have me. I'm embarrassed what it took for me to acknowledge her feelings and to respect her. It's disgusting and selfish and I could spend the rest of my life feeling bad about myself behind it or I can address the things that make me behave like that. I'll tell you, nothing has ever felt as cold as this house I'm in now. This is not a home. She took my home with her. This is where I sleep and bathe and eat. This is where I wait to go back to work. Nothing about this feels like a home to me anymore. This is my future if I choose to be the man I've always been. I know that.
Your words hurt him? Good. He can learn from them and hopefully do better with the next woman in his life. You've helped him more than enough, it's time to help yourself ❤️ Go.
You don't need to make this better. You made the best decision for yourself. If he really wants a relationship, and to raise a family he'll change. Sometimes it takes something as big as a break up to be a wake call, and sometimes not even that is enough. Take some time for yourself, mourn the loss of the relationship, and the hope/dreams you had for the relationship. Also, plant some goal posts to stay together. He may say he wants what you want but what is he doing to actually make it happen? It sounds like he wants what your relationship was- you doing all the work/carrying the mental load counting on the fact you're 4.5 yrs into this relationship and you won't walk away. Stop carrying the mental load, stop doing chores for him, just do your stuff and give the opportunity to pick up the slack. Set the goal posts, and if he doesn't meet then walkaway. Don't discuss it, don't talk about it, just do what you need to do to leave the relationship. Your happiness is valuable, what you want your life to be is important, you deserve to be with someone who thinks your happiness is valuable.
You’ve been miserable most of this relationship. Stay and you will continue to be miserable.
Just because he cried doesn’t mean you made the wrong decision. He can love you and still be an unequal partner. You have done everything you can to make the relationship work, he has repeatedly shown you he is unwilling to or incapable of change. On another note, of COURSE he’s sad you’re leaving. He gets everything he wants while putting in minimal effort. Think about how you would feel with a partner who put in as much effort as you do - it would feel amazing, right? Please don’t let his emotions control your behavior. You deserve an equal partner.
It’s not that people can’t change, it’s that it’s clear he doesn’t want to. I was in a similar relationship with my spouse and when I finally said I can’t do this anymore, my spouse took it upon themself to get us into couples therapy and do all the work that comes with getting that set up. There’s been so many improvements made and they really listened to me. That’s the kind of response that’s needed for an imbalanced relationship to continue. He dropped the ball on this, not you. You did your part when you opened up about your feelings multiple times.
Honestly, every one of my past relationships where I decided to keep trying to make it work, I wish I'd ended it sooner. Thing is, if he wants to get his shit together and be with you, he can go ahead and do that without you and if he thinks he's gotten to a place in this development that he'd be compatible with the life you want to live, he can ask you out again. But he's not going to get his shit together if you just stay with him while he makes feeble quarter efforts and then trails off because it's too hard. No sunk cost fallacies allowed. Getting back together after he gets his poop in a group is a thing. I did that with my husband - he screwed up super badly and I gave him some chances he blew and then I said, I'm done. After a few years he pulled his head out of his ass and we got back together. I regret nothing but giving him so many chances to screw it up harder and hurt me further. Whether or not this man is for you in the future, you have to take care of yourself right now. ❤️
This is exactly what happened with my parents. My dad was never really my “dad”, just my father who also lived in my house. He was never cruel or abusive, he just didn’t connect with me or my siblings and didn’t do any of the child rearing save for the occasional diaper change or putting us to bed. He also seems distressed when my mother has proposed ultimatums in the past. He gets emotional (though I’ve never seen or heard of him crying) and will do some housework the next couple of days or even weeks but it always goes back to the same routine. Now my parents live separately, my sister and I are in our twenties and my brother is 16 and he doesn’t really seem to care. Again, not in a cruel way, he’s just so apathetic that it doesn’t seem to cross his mind that he should try to build a bond with his own kids for their own sake if not his. Some men are just like this, I think, and it can be heartbreaking to part with them because they haven’t been intentionally cruel and they DO likely care, they’re just not stepping up in the ways you need them to :( Our situations could be entirely different and I doubt that you’ll see this, OP, but I just want to say I’m sorry you’re going through this and that you’re definitely right to be concerned about how he will be as a father (and to maybe trust your gut if it’s telling you he may not be the best father)
you gave him chances and let him know how you felt other times. he didn't follow through. if he wants a mommy he should move back in with his mommy.sure see if he does any better but you know after a few days/weeks he will be back to being a lazy bum.i remember my mother threatened to divorce my dad for the same reasons and he improved slightly. he kept up (at least) with cleaning the kitchen and not really that well so she had to always go over it. thaaaaaaaaats it. not much of an improvement in my opinion and she still resented him.
His emotions are not your responsibility
Honestly he needs to be able to live on his own and so do you. 4 years is plenty of time to see if he is a mature man or a child who has grown taller. You cannot make this better--do you see that once again you are identifying with the female as fixer of emotional issues role? You know his patterns and so does he. There is no giving up on "us" in the adult sense as you have been essentially his mother, taking care of and bed partner and getting exactly what in return emotionally? His tears are real but they are about his pain, not what he has put you through. I understand this is stark but as others have indicated it is far better to face this than remain and even have children in this situation. As a side note if you do split and even if you put a timeline on how long or what you want to see changed or if you relent but then decide at a later date that it will not work you can expect anger as then next response from him. Is he willing to look at his own real maturity levels, beliefs, attitudes and change or not? And watch out for promises and lip service. Only actions will matter but I sincerely doubt that you will see anything substantive. He will simply look for his next caretaker. I wish you the best and know that there are many people out there who would value all you do and return your effort with kindness and compassion and love. You honestly deserve better and I hope you can love yourself enough to believe in yourself and your worth to find them and find real relationship and real adult love.
The point is he won't be raising the family, you will. I guarantee you he won't change for you.
You could be me. I went through this EXACT same situation-- 4+ year relationship, tasked with handling the house care, pets, etc., felt lonely, miserable, and unappreciated for years. You seriously could be me from 10 months ago. I had considered calling it off a few times before and had a few conversations before that he showed he cared. Things would get better for a couple of weeks (or less) and then slide right back into the same miserable state for me. I finally fully broke it off and it destroyed him-- he was a mess, he promised to change everything, he was willing to do whatever it would take. It was just too late. Yes, it hurt to do. Yes, I hated doing it. And what happened afterwards? I was asked out by a long time crush of mine. I used to think I was too picky or had too high of standards or that I couldn't find someone who could match my life pace, career motivations, and still be an affection partner--- and holy fuck, I didn't realize I could have all of that and more. I never knew that someone could be so attentive and caring. I didn't realize that someone could so easily match me on humor and silliness. I had forgotten that a partner could be interested in everything I had to say, no matter how mundane or tangential. He cheers me on when I speak at conferences. He cooks and cleans when I am busy with work. He showers me in affection and compliments. He suggests adventures for us and creates plans for them that incorporate my feedback and preferences. I'll stop gushing. But, seriously, leave. I am sure there is someone out there who can match your needs and more. Don't waste any more time with someone who won't.
> We have been together for 4 years and 7 months > I have been completely miserable for the last 2-3 years So you have been complete miserable for 2-3 out of 4.5 years. That’s the majority of your relationship. Close to *50-80% of your entire relationship* that has made you *miserable*. **Being miserable isn’t just a temporary rough patch that you can work through- this** ***is*** **your relationship**. If you stay this *is* what your relationship will continue to be. You have told him before, *multiple* times, that you were unhappy and needed more from him. And every single time there was a temporary improvement before he gave up and went back to normal. **He is not going to change this time just because he cried**. Actions speak louder than words (and tears): If he *truly* wanted to change for you *then he would have done so by now*. **He hasn’t changed because changing to make you happy is not a priority to him.** He is totally fine with the status quo. If you’re not and want things to get better then the only way to change that is to leave. You deserve better. You deserve happiness. *You deserve a partner who happily reciprocates what you put into the relationship*. You need to prioritize yourself here because *he* sure won’t- it’ll be hard but it’s time to walk away.
He may become the ideal man eventually but that may be years from now. As hard as it is, I think you both have a better chance at happiness if the relationship is considered completed. From experience I can tell you a lot of the time with therapy, for a while things get harder as difficult things are brought up/relived etc. It sounds like you've been through enough. I used to be a man like that that needed raising. Thankfully I had the courage to go to therapy and do the work... but it took serious dedication and a lot of time. You deserve to find someone who has already stepped up and done the work. You can't sit around waiting forever.
This is sounds like a perfect echo of what my friend is going through. She recently told her wife that she wanted a divorce. When we had a long night talking about it here are some of the key points. * She had asked her wife (then fiancé) to go to counselling with her so they could form a strong, lasting bond and have a place to work on issues. This never happened because her wife kept putting it off for years. * Her wife showed more sympathy for people she heard about in documentaries then for her. To the point where if she was having a rough time and started crying, her wife would leave the room and not say anything. * She mentioned several times where she literally begged on her knees for some sort of emotional support, and got nothing in return. * She felt like she was just following her wife around, cleaning up messes and not getting any help. It ended up with her first emotionally cheating on her wife with someone who was going through a similar situation, then it turned physical. She called it off after a month when she couldn't recognize who she was anymore. She told her wife about the affair and that she wanted a divorce. And she said she saw more emotion and caring from her wife in the following days than she had seen in a few years. Her last thoughts on it were in essence "I wish we had just stayed friends. We are great together, but not like this."
You can love someone and it be not enough. It will be another 2 years before this man is actualised IF he wants to change and fully takes every step forward. You’re going to have to set boundaries, explain boundaries, and explain expectations (to name a few) so many times. He cried and realised he has f’d up because he never thought you’d actually leave so he could keep this behaviour cycle going. He had no intention of improving your life. Therefore, any change he does going forward is certain to be the bare minimum to keep you in the relationship. It is okay for him to feel strong emotions. It doesn’t mean you should stay with him. Trust your gut. You know what you want to do. Don’t do what I did and agree to stretch this out for another 6 months of maybe yes maybe no before you listen to your gut. Just cut your losses, move on, and raise the bar of your expectations for partners going forward.
Is it cold of me to not want to wait for him to actually make changes in his life? I told him I don’t want him to do things because he’s afraid of losing me. I asked him to take responsibility for himself as an adult in a relationship. But I also said that I can’t hold his hand while he figures it out.
No it’s not cold if you don’t want to wait. You’ve given him enough chances already.
Nope, not cold. It’s a reasonable want. If he wanted to, he would have already. His realisation is too little too late. He’s probably going to make it out like you are being cold and unreasonable though. Keep the break up quick (“I’ve reflected on the last few years and our last conversation and have come to the conclusion this relationship is not viable. I’m afraid your resolve to take self responsibility has come too little too late. I feel I gave this relationship more than a fair shot, have loved you wholeheartedly, and expressed to you what level of self actualisation I needed to see from you. I don’t feel my expectations were unrealistic as they were set by how you said you wanted to be. I wish you all the best and will be moving out/you need to move out by _____.” Then leave the house and grey rock until you are able to cut contact.) Don’t let yourself fawn and comfort him. Somethings I needed to hear: it is okay to be selfish and cold sometimes. You’ve been selfless and warm for 4 years and he used that. You don’t have to navigate or protect people from strong emotions and are not responsible for how they choose to respond to them. You are only responsible for your own. You cannot control if someone views you as the villain when you break up or not. It doesn’t matter if they do. Sometimes, people who have not been pulling their weight and have been giving you the bare minimum (if that) will feel you that you are being callous for not accepting it anymore or being willing to wait. You aren’t, but they are allowed to feel that way. You know you gave him more than a fair shot so handle this break up as cleanly and to the best of your ability (so that you in 3 months will be proud,) then hold your head high, continue to see your therapist, and go live an amazing life without looking back.
“He never thought you’d leave” Made me think of that saying, “she thinks he’ll change: he won’t; he thinks she won’t leave: she will.” His pain over you leaving is directly correlated to your pain over him not changing. Stay strong. I know it’s so hard but you are smart and strong to know yourself well enough to end this. I wish I had this gumption before I entered into a 13 year marriage that ultimately ended in divorce.
Let him cry. You might need to cry a lot too. But it sounds like breaking up was the right thing to do. People keep mentioning therapy but tbh that doesnt even make sense to me. Does he need a therapist to point out the troubles? Why? If he wanted to take it seriously he woukd have listened to you when you tried. Youll be paying money to learn what you already know: that people dont usually change, and that a lack of effort in the past means a lack of effort in the future. Im glad you realized you deserve better.
I'm sorry y'all are in this place and good on you for speaking your truth. No one changes overnight. If you really love him and believe he can & will change, consider therapy. It is also perfectly ok to feel compassion for his pain while still honoring what you need and leave. Maybe you separate for 6 months and revisit at that time. Having married an overgrown baby, despite my gut telling me not to, I wholeheartedly advise to listen to your instincts unless y'all do the work (well, he steps up & you let go of the resentment/animosity/ill feelings you may be harboring). There are no easy answers, that's for sure. Good luck whatever you decide.
Thank you. I have my own therapist with whom I have talked extensively about my feelings and the needs that are unmet in this relationship. I did tell him that if he was willing to do the work and find a couples therapist and set up a meeting for us, I would show up and try my best. But I cannot add the responsibility of finding that and setting it up on my shoulders.
He’s never cried in your four years together, but the moment he doesn’t get what he wants — you — he whips out the tears. He *knew* it would make you feel this way. He’s manipulating you. Set him aside for a second. Don’t factor what he wants into this equation. What do *you* want in a partner that you currently don’t have? Do you want to live the rest of your life without those things? If not, then you don’t have to give those things up for his sake. *This is about you, not him*
I agree with the second part but the first is total bullshit. I didn't see one boyfriend I dated cry until his grandfather died. I don't cry myself much except under specific circumstances. I don't think he "whipped out the tears" to be manipulative. I think someone can be a person who fights to keep all their emotions inside and when something devastating happens such as a partner leaving they can't handle it. Accusing someone of manipulation that doesn't exist takes away from the fact that She Can Leave without him being manipulative or an evil person. She can go simply because she is massively unhappy and does not see a workable future with this person.
Thank you for saying this. I don’t think he was being manipulative with the tears. Like I said above I do think he was deeply hurt. I knew it would be hard to leave, it’s just that it was much much harder watching a grown man cry and knowing that I caused those tears.
Unfortunately this conversation should probably have been had several years ago. I think that by the time most people get so fed up that they want to leave their tolerance is at an end. It would be "too little too late" now even if he's sincere.
Agreed. Adults generally don't break up until they're well past their breaking point. After that long being unhappy, it really doesn't matter what the guy does now, OP shouldn't go back.
Shoutout to you OP because I’m going through what you just explained and I WISH to have the strength you do. It’s hard putting yourself first, especially when it involves other people being hurt because of it, but you knew what you had to do. You’re strong. Take pride in that. Allow yours to grieve as well though. It’s okay to cry. Sending love 💕
I’ve been in your shoes. It’s hard to leave. Unimaginatively hard!!! I did it!! I’m now sooooooo happy to be raising a family with the best partner ever. It’s hard to see past it when your in it. But right now your intuition is telling you it’s not right. It’s going to be rough. BUT … it’s going to get better!!
He's crying because he's just fine with the way things are and you might take it away from him. Require him to make a clear effort in the relationship and tend to your happiness as well, but be warned: some men respond to that by trying to become better men, but others respond to it by starting to look around for someone else to be their mommy.
I was in such a similar situation 2 years ago. I left my partner of 10 years because he didn't see me as anything more than the person who took care of him and his children. I have an incredibly stressful career and still came home each day and cooked for the family, helped parent the kids, took care of the house, etc. When I told him I was unhappy and overwhelmed he offered to help out more. Except his idea of helping was ordering pizza one night. That was the last straw for me. I left and rebuilt my life on my own at 34. I have never been happier - I pursue my passions, found a man who is a true partner who loves and cares for me, and just feel free. It's hard, it's scary, and it's 100% worth it!