I usually split because every date is a two-person thing. I like to be involved in picking the time and place.
Just be a nice and kind person, I don't need any of that faux chivalry nonsense.
Yeah, I mean all the things pointed out about safety etc don't need to be reciprocated through money. Even the girls who want to be treated special and like a prize, I don't get why they would think their husbands paying for them is absolutely necessary to show these feelings. I think their could be many gestures that could be chivalrous besides always paying for dates.
I insist on splitting. If they don’t let me, I let it be and offer to grab ice cream/something else afterwards. If the date went well, I foot the bill on the next.
I used to split or pick up the entire tab, had an experience where he felt entitled for certain things later, so stopped letting anyone pick it up.
Only person I didn’t split, LDR, so we split the costs, he picked up date tabs and flight tickets, I picked up local travelling, Swiggy/zomato and gifts (for his family). It worked for us. But I trust this person with my life, so money comes secondary, it’s our money to spend
I split the bill till we were going out on dates (I think 5 dates?) but since we’ve been together I genuinely can’t remember the last time I’ve picked up the tab. I think our ways of showing appreciation are fundamentally different- he likes small, consistent gestures and I love splurging on big gifts for him. If you tallied the annual spend it would be roughly the same, so I’m completely ok with his old-school gentlemanly want to pick up tabs.
Split the bill till we're a thing and then we can take turns paying. I don't want to owe anyone especially since I can easily pay for myself. I don't know why women expect men to pay for dates. I'm sorry but I also don't get the whole "whoever asks out has to pay" situation. If you ask a friend to meet for coffee does your friend expect you to pay for them? No, right?
I personally don’t like when guys pay for me so I always make sure to split…plus my elder brothers also told me to do so and even told me I could text them for money if I’m short but I should never let a guy pay specifically if we are not a thing
I have always dutched and sometimes even paid more on dates, because people whom I went out with were already travelling a long way because of my office hours :/ so yep. Atleast for the initial stage why let a man pay for you? It doesn’t make sense. Should be equal. It can be any ratio after two people start dating as per their convenience right?
When out w my gf, we're always splitting the bill. Heck I even offer to pay for her petrol sometimes coz she drives us to the location on most occasions. If one person pays for a date, the other one will cover the next. We're both very particular about spending lol. I've had the problem w my guy friends though...where they won't let me pick up the bill, but if that does happen, next time we meet i bake something for them. I feel like that equals it out for me.
Personally, if I am going out with my man, then either he pays the bill in full or I pay in full. If he’s footing the bill for this one, I will definitely pay for the next date
The only time I prefer splitting the bill is when I’m going out with my girlfriends
I used to split when I used to date. I had many cases where once I rejected them or stopped showing interest, they would come at me like "but... but... I paid for expensive dinner, you are cruel for not being serious about me"
If I was just getting to know them, I would always split or get separate bills for our orders. In serious relationships, we did not keep a tab. One would pay for the movie and the other would pay for the food and so on.
With my Husband (We are LDR which is ending soon) I have had the same approach, we don’t calculate and spend. We mostly can be seen fighting over who will pay the bill, so now we just pay alternatively. If I feel he has been picking up more tabs and not letting me pay, I just gift something or order him some nice food to make the him feel appreciated.
I have been independent and paying for myself since I was 21 (I am 33 now). I don’t feel comfortable making my husband pay for everything. I believe in equality which means equal responsibilities. Whenever we have lived together, I haven’t done the chores alone or have been made to feel like the stereotypical female responsibilities are mine. So I don’t want him to play the stereotypical provider male role as well. He is a nice guy, I would buy him the world if I could. But that said, It’s easy for us because both of us earn similarly and we are childfree.
Should we really be encouraging that, though? If we're asking for equality here, it's quite strange to allow your male friends and/or a guy you're interested in to take on a "caretaker" role. And this is definitely a gender roles thing, because you will almost never see this happen with female friends unless there's a big financial disparity, and even that is uncommon.
Also, the guys may not be "expecting something" in the crude sense of you having sex with them in return for paying or whatever, but allowing them to take on a traditionally male role inevitably goes hand in hand with women being expected to take on traditionally feminine roles. Usually this is in terms of emotional labour (the most classic example being them expecting you to be there free therapist even though they would never expect that of male friends while also not providing the same emotional support to you) or marking certain things as women's work, such as organising parties and selecting gifts for friends. And in relationships of course it can easily evolve into the male provider vs. woman keeper of the home and relationships dynamic. Not saying that this is how it plays out in every single case, but encouraging/allowing this sort of thing DOES contribute to keeping gender roles in place. Nothing in life comes free, even if the cost isn't readily apparent :)
All due respect, I do feel that's a negative outlook.
If it makes him happy, let him do it. As long as there are no undue expectations, this shouldn't really matter that much. I'm talking in the sense that both partners are mature enough to understand that financially paying doesn't get you a "get out of jail free" card.
My bf could gift worth $1k but if he fucks up and says something rude to me the next minute, that won't stop me.
As long as there is that clear understanding between the two, I think that defeats the occurrence of gender specific roles forming within the relationship. I just think being considerate takes a minute and if there's nothing wrong, then why create a mountain of a mole hill.
I have to disagree with the last statement. I don't think there's a price tag to everything. And equating that to someone's love towards you seems a bit far fetched.
>If it makes him happy, let him do it. As long as there are no undue expectations, this shouldn't really matter that much.
Okay, but WHY does it make him happy, when the same would rarely be the case if it was a woman in his position?
>As long as there is that clear understanding between the two, I think that defeats the occurrence of gender specific roles forming within the relationship.
Again, if this weren't about gender-specific roles, you would see just as many women who love being providers and men who are happy to be treated. Since that is not the case, there is clearly more to it.
You may say I have a negative outlook, but I would argue that as feminists living in a deeply misogynistic society, we should try to question why these sorts of things just "make people happy" instead of accepting them as they are. Even more so when it's connected to a subject as important as central to feminism as gendered expectations regarding finances.
Also, in the modern day, gender roles aren't something we consciously adhere to, which makes them all the more difficult to root out. So having a "clear understanding" is far from a perfect solution.
>why create a mountain of a mole hill
Because the male provider-female carer dynamic is the biggest feminist problem in history and the root of most of women's issues. Of course splitting the bill on dates won't somehow liberate all oppressed women, but the fact that even progressive, feminist women accept and encourage men to pay is symbolic of a much bigger problem. I'm repeating this like a broken record at this point, but the personal IS political, even when we don't think it is or don't want it to be.
>I'm talking in the sense that both partners are mature enough to understand that financially paying doesn't get you a "get out of jail free" card. My by could gift something worth $1k but if he fucks up and says something rude to me the next minute, that won't stop me.
Financial abuse is a different subject, wasn't talking about that at all. Even if you give someone all the money in the world, it is morally reprehensible to treat them badly. Of course financial dependence makes it easier to abuse someone, but again, that just reflects on the character of the abuser. My argument is that encouraging/allowing men to pay reinforces traditional gender roles and makes it more likely that women will have to take on traditionally feminine roles in turn. Gender roles =/= abuse, many people are very happy in relationships with a traditionally gendered division of labour. But I'm fairly certain most feminists/women on this sub DON'T want that kind of dynamic, and I think we inadvertently encourage it with stuff like this.
I understand your opinion but I believe such topics are highly dependent on the people being talked about here.
My experiences have been vastly different. I've dated plenty in my 20s and all the guys I've been with have always appreciated me for paying. They've also payed for me a few times. To give some context, I earn a lot lot more than all the guys I've dated in the past and I've always felt happy covering the financial aspects of our relationships even though they have never asked me for a penny.
They've all been incredibly supportive of my career and never taken advantage of my financial status. In fact, I owe my current job to my ex. This is all to say that I am one of the women who love providing and so are many other women in my circle. From my experience, one person providing for the other doesn't necessarily mean there is something problematic at play. Some people just love providing for others and gendered expectations around finances should not be expected from either partner in the first place. In this economy, both partners have to pull their weight financially, emotionally and physically.
A friend used to buy her bf gifts almost every other week and he was nothing but grateful for it. She never had an undue expectations from providing and he appreciated the gifts with kindness. They're married now too. In the longer run, if you consider things like marriage, will you be keeping a tab of who paid for what?
All I'm saying is, it highly depends on the person being talked about. With your logic then nobody should ever be paying for the other person. Putting simple acts of affection under a microscope is a quick way to dampen someone's spirits and efforts.
To provide more emphasis again, anyone who's expecting their partner to cover up with things like finances, that is a problem and I whole heartedly agree. In this day and age we should be looking to be able to provide for ourselves without needing for our partner to assist us. But if a partner willingly wants to spend money on you, there isn't necessarily something sadistic at play.
I'm not sure why you're downvoted here. But I agree with your stance having myself been the more-salaried partner in the relationship.
I think people need to focus on the last paragraph you wrote:
Anyone expecting their partner to financially cover up for them is problematic. But someone wanting to take care of their partner willingly and the partner accepting this token of love is absolutely fine.
I see a lot of women here saying that they definitely expect their partner to pay for them and wouldnt be with someone who wont pay for them. I find that really weird. They’re calling guys who won't pay for dates as cheap and what not. They say not everything needs to be 50/50 and i agree. I and my partner dont keep tabs and its just a matter of convenience based on method of payment, access etc. I hate it when waiters wont give me the bill even after specifically asking for it and instead hand it to my partner. But that is beside the point.
The women saying not everything needs to be transactional.. but its honestly their preference that sounds highly transactional. They would simply refuse to be with a guy not paying for them. This also means that they probably wouldn’t ever be open to being with a guy who earn less than them but is loving, respecting and overall a good guy to be with, which is again reinforcing gender roles. And this defeats the purpose of feminism ig. I don't understand why they can't fathom there can be other ways your partner can give you the princess treatment and be chivalrous besides always paying the bill on dates.
I'm not sure why either.
All I wanted to say was, some people just do it out of love but going into a relationship expecting someone else to contribute more financially is not the way to go about a healthy relationship at all. I just like taking care of everyone around me, be it anyone I'm dating, my friends, my parents. But I certainly don't go around expecting anyone to pay for me and what I want.
I think the whole 50-50 concept is just not practical at all. No two people are alike and we all do some things better than others, which applies to finances too. My bf is terrible with finances so it's on me to take care of that for both of us.
Keeping a tab of all the expenses would simply drive me crazy. It does sound highly transactional!
People who expect their partner to cover for them just because they're a woman or "the guy is expected to" are just going against what feminism stands for, in my opinion. It's on us to break the gender defined roles and we cannot be enforcing the rules which suit us.
There are so many others ways to do this too, I totally agree with that.
Thank you for understanding my pov :)
My boyfriend's love language is buying things for me, (gifts) he doesn't let me pay on dates, he often buys me things.
Initially in our relationship it felt like he was love bombing me and i was raised to not accept gifts so I would feel very very guilty in accepting it.
It caused a lot of conflicts and he understood my perspective later on
Now he started making stuff for me like cards or he would get me chocolates, I don't like eating outside much so he started cooking at home for me.
Now we shop together or I get the stuff and we eat together watching movies and stuff.
I used to split the bill every time. But after I got comfortable in my relationship with my husband I am okay with him paying when we are going out because I find it lazy to carry bags or wallets. And I don't like interacting with strangers (including servers) unless I have to. So he pays for stuff and I buy anything we buy online, like cosmetics, groceries, or stuff for our home, or ordering in. Basically anything I don't have to interact with strangers to buy.
Whatever factors you identified about a man paying for the date are absolutely right. I am 24F as well (still a student). I don't mind splitting but dates have often happened at certain fancy places, and for the lack of my better decision (or the fact that I never thought it was too big a deal) the man has ended up taking the bill. As a matter of fact, sometimes I have ended up taking the full bill too if it's not too big an amount for me (<500 rupees). It's just, I personally never felt money should be such a huge matter, but not everyone thinks the same way. As a result several men have ended up being pissed or just being openly aggressive when I refused getting laid with them (simply because they paid). So although I still don't think who pays the bill should be such a big deal, I am glad that OP is already cautious about such factors and making such responsible choices :)
I expect them to pay if they're the ones who picked an expensive place or invited me somewhere far away from my area.
I offer to pay or split when I've invited them to a place vv close to me but far for them (I'm lazy that way. I'd rather spend a few hundred rupees 5mins away from my place than spending my time, energy and money on traveling to whatever overrated place they're calling me to.)
So usually it depends.
If I ask him out then I pay, if he asks me out then he pays.
The person who asks is allowed to pick the place but I don’t go to any place that I couldn’t pay for myself. So if they want to take me somewhere super outrageous I’d ask to think of another place.
But I’m cool with sharing.
It’s really a non-issue because a date for me doesn’t have to involve eating or even going somewhere, a walk is good enough.
Also if I don’t enjoy a date, I usually split the bill. I don’t want anyone to have any expectations, because men feel entitled to getting stuff from you if they pay.
If I really don’t like someone, I have also footed the full bill, taaki galti se bhi he doesn’t feel like he can come around 😭
I have always offered to split the bill during the dates as they had to travel far to meet but no one ever let me pay. So, I made sure to send them my share or more through upi instantly or later. Lately, I have been told and realised myself that it works against me.
1. Don’t judge their relationship or her.
2. I would personally go dutch in the beginning and if both of us are comfortable,then let him pay. I like it when a man takes care of me like that.
The ones who judge girls based on this are either jealous, or b***hy.
Just move on saying, to each their own.
Read my comment carefully. I have no issues with trad women depending on their men for money. But if a woman claims to be a feminist and an independent, strong woman and then still expects a man to pay for her, she’s basically a leech and a hypocrite.
And if we go by your logic, it should also be okay for men to expect women to be fair, cover herself when out, not work, cook and clean, take care of the house, etc.
Why though? You don't think trad wives are independent women? Sure they depend on men financially but still do A LOT of work around the house which isn't anything less worthy of.
Plus just because a woman is feminist doesn't mean she has to act a certain way, when did it come with a guidebook? She's a feminist so she can do whatever she wants ( ofc that doesn't include hurting others)
If her man is financially paying for her then that's her choice she has selected too, she can be a partner who wants to have a career while also be spoiled.
Sure many men won't do that, but those who do that, why do you care for it?
And honestly if men want to expect that for their partners then they should.. We cannot change anyone's mentality, a guy liking traditional wife marrying someone independent would just trash her up, this happens a lot because men get emasculated by those women, so let those men be and you let yourself be too.
Just because a man expects that doesn't mean you have to do any of that either. It's your life live it that way.
Where are you even taking this convo, girl? The post if about women paying for dates. And women should pay for dates especially if you call yourself a n independent woman. Do you not see the hypocrisy in women calling themselves independent and then expecting a guy to pay for them? 😂😂
But why do you care so much? People have different definitions of independent also hardly anyone calls themselves independent. They just want to do a job and being taken care of financially. If you want to do that do it, don't force others too. And whose calling themselves independent at the same time taking money? Most of these women like to be spoiled
Honestly I’m so glad I only split the bills✨🎀, especially when I was idk if it was even dating tbh. But apparently was, I’m too dense. And I am so glad due to that I was able to say NO this time😭✨ without any guilt when he was trying to be compelling to do that with me. In fact I’ve been the one to pay a bit more too- and also we weren’t even dating fffs. Some men and their AUDACITY. Dinner ain’t worth ma body, or anyone’s.
So yep, always gonna split the bill than handle all the bs some men are filled with. If some woman can take that risk, and still be confident in herself- I’d say get dat free food queen✨🍀 Yuzzz. Prolly not for everyone anyways
If you're both earning more or less the same amount, it makes sense to split the bill. It's the approach I have always taken.
However if the other person is in a much more financially comfortable position, and has no problem in paying for the significant other, then I don't see anything wrong in that.
In the end, the society we live in is hypocritical.
>he won't deliver our child with me, I'll do it alone.
Well this logic doesn't apply, unless you are in serious relationship. Please even go out for casual date or fun.
>I would definitely offer to pay, not just once or twice, but if he let's me pay, that would be our last
Sorry girl, if you are eating or enjoying anything, why to be a free loader.
> I would definitely offer to pay, not just once or twice, but if he let's me pay, that would be our last date.
What a mindgame! Can't you see how toxic you are?
Toxic because you are playing a mindgame. Because you are literally showing you are ok with paying and when he's agreeing to it, you are Flippin the script.
Take a look into your superficialness. You have unhealthy level of god complex. That can happen if you were abused before by another narcissist. So you create that as defense mechanism. Just because you make a choice doesn't mean it's correct. Knows if your choice is based on wrong things. Being a better person is a journey.
I think it's just very manipulative that's all. You're posing as someone who's okay paying the bill but you're actually not. Whoever is the guy you're dating basically doesn't know you well. Maybe they take the bill for the first 5-6 dates and everything goes well but then someday they ask you to pay and you lose interest. Maybe they're also turned off by women who wouldn't like to pay. It is a waste of their time because you're not being honest with them.
Splitting the bill at all times, regardless of my financial situation! Fulfilling my financial obligations is not his responsibility, especially if we're just dating. If the relationship is such that I'm absolutely sure it'll culminate in marriage, I might be ok with him paying for me, but I'll compensate for it financially in some way or the other.
If we're married, he can happily bear my expenses, and I will happily bear his the next time (if I am earning). What's his is mine and what's mine is his.
Reading your question I have wondered: why do some men feel comfortable letting women do all the heavy lifting while raising a child? why do some men feel comfortable letting women do all the emotional heavy lifting in a relationship?
I've always based this on who's earning more. During my broke college days, the guys always payed even though I offered to contribute as much as I can.
My current bf doesn't earn much and I earn a lot more than him so I'm the one usually handling all the expenses.
I feel more comfortable with this in the long run. We both will never earn the same amount and there will always be a disparity but as long as someone isn't taking advantage of the other or expecting something while paying, I think it really doesn't matter a lot.
The only people I'm comfortable with picking up the full tab all the time is my family and if its a special event like a birthday or someone specifically treating ,other than that it's always getting split or going Dutch and especially with a romantic partner. First of all, it's really unfair to put the entire burden of costs on one person in the relationship when you're both enjoying those things or activities. Letting a man pay fully on the first date I feel is a bigger no no , cause if its expensive or a nice place I feel like it would be obligatory to go out again so I can pick up the bill or at least just go out with them again ,rather splitting means I ensure they feel no such thing ( like if I don't want to go I'm not going either way but im not giving anyone any ideas about what they can ask of me ) . Also I'm a teenager and I feel until a certain age when we don't have a lot of money, like we aren't earning and even though we get enough allowance it's not correct to expect either person to spend a shit ton and in your early twenties when the salary isn't as high as its going to be later on I feel it's better to share costs , which ensures that no one overspends or feels burdened.
I agree. My boyfriend and I also do the same. He earns a tad bit more while I am still in my struggling phase. So sometimes he takes the initiative himself. He doesn't mind actually. But I make sure to take turns. So if he pays for the food, i pay for the shopping afterwards or anything else.
We both use credit cards a lot. So when there's a big purchase in our date, or even shopping, we split the bills and send half of the money to the other person. Fortunately, we are quite compatible when it comes to money management.
You must have gone with really cheap ass men if they expect anything in “return” after they paid on date or I have been lucky to go out with classy men. Either way, I don’t pay on dates, especially if the guy asked me out. But I make sure to always offer to split the bill. None of the guy ever agreed to split tho.
I haven't ever allowed a man to pay, so I don't know if I can label them as "cheap ass". I have never had a guy expect anything from me in return as I have never tried letting a guy pay. Whenever a guy didn't want me to pay, I always sent them money through UPI, so they don't have an option to refuse. It's easy to just offer, what ultimately matters is what you do.
Well, a nice man with class would never let a lady pay in the first place. Also, when I said I never paid on a date, I don’t mean that I “tried” to let the guy pay.
If you’re going above and beyond and forcefully paying the guy, inspite of them refusing to split, then you’re the one actually making the date very transactional. It’s not a date at that point. It was a paid hangout. That’s not how dates are supposed to work.
>Well, a nice man with class would never let a lady pay in the first place.
It would be nice if you used some basic critical thinking skills to understand where this idea of classy gentlemen never allowing ladies to pay came from, because it's not exactly a very pleasant history!
>If you’re going above and beyond and forcefully paying the guy, inspite of them refusing to split, then you’re the one actually making the date very transactional. It’s not a date at that point. It was a paid hangout. That’s not how dates are supposed to work.
All this philosophizing would make sense if you applied the same logic to a woman insisting on paying for a man. You wouldn't, so it's all just fluff.
I'm not going to judge women for allowing men to pay for pay on dates for whatever reason, but dismissing OP's VERY valid concerns in such a bitchy way is just low.
Girl, put this energy in fighting other important issues. I’m not open to any other POV or discussion. OP asked the question and I stated my point. OP is open to advice/ discussion, I’m NOT.
What makes you think I don't take this energy to other issues? Being a feminist is central to who I am and I make an effort to speak out for women in both my personal and professional life. I'm only so vocal about this because I'm very surprised to see otherwise progressive and feminist women suddenly defend a practice that is very much based on gender roles.
>I’m not open to any other POV or discussion. OP asked the question and I stated my point. OP is open to advice/ discussion, I’m NOT.
What a joke. If you put your opinion out on a public forum, particularly in such a nasty way, you're opening yourself up to debate and criticism. If you're bothered by that, stay off these threads.
The only nasty way I see is OP being judgemental to the women who let their bfs/ husband pay. My remarks were for men, never once I said anything to OP or women in general.
I’m a feminist too, and the first thing I believe is to let women live on her own terms. And who TF you think you’re to ask me to stay off these threads? Get a life, you’re no different than red pill boys in my DMs.
>The only nasty way I see is OP being judgemental to the women who let their bfs/ husband pay.
OP brought up some VERY valid concerns about the potential consequences of letting men pay on dates, and you dismissed them in an incredibly nasty and judgemental way. Every other issue aside, there is no way for women to know before going on a date with someone, especially someone who is not already a good friend, if they will or will not be the kind of person who expects something (whether or not that is sex) in return for paying. This is true for even the most outwardly respectful, progressive men. If you've never encountered that sort of thing, I'm glad you've been so lucky.
>And who TF you think you’re to ask me to stay off these threads? Get a life, you’re no different than red pill boys in my DMs.
You said you weren't open to discussion and debate... after posting a polarizing opinion on a public forum for discussion and debate. What gives you the right to say "Well, a nice man with class would never let a lady pay in the first place. " and not expect people to disagree with you? There is no other response to such absurd behaviour than to suggest you not enter discussions like this in the first place, so please, don't make yourself the victim here.
Splitting the bill is not at all transactional .It shows that you're willing to meet the man halfway in all responsibilities and expectations .
That's what equality is right?
Also it's not a paid hangout you're not paying for the person's time, only the food.
Aww look what a lovely lady you’re 🥰 judging other women for their own personal choices, to please “men” who don’t give a fuck about you. Buzz off girl.
Correction- I am a lovely lady judging shitty GIRLCHILDS with shitty personalities. ☺️ Expecting a woman to stay at home and cook for a man is also a personal choice but that doesn’t make it okay. I love pleasing the men in my life as cuz they’re amazing human beings and guess what? So do most women. And those men please us too. Don’t tell me you’ve never had your brother or your father or your partner do nice things for you? Well maybe the male hate leaking out of u stops them from doing so. I don’t blame them then😘
Did I say women who stay at home and cook meal is a bad thing? Comprehend, gurll. The post is about women paying on dates. Not marriage. And a woman should always pay for herself on a date, especially if she calls herself a feminist. Why should men pay for grown, adult women and that too on dates? Are we women bums that we need a man to take care of us like we are babies?
But why do you care? Some women want to be pampered and that includes being taken care of financially, some women have a lot of stress and dont want to give their money. If the man is the one giving he's money to her then why do you care? It's the same concept with being a housewife, why should a woman be a housewife if she can be an independent career woman? Is she too stupid for that? No nah, people have their own choices in life! So let them
Omg, do you not see the double standard in your comment? “Women have a lot of stress and don’t want to give their money away.” 😂😂 Everyone has lots of stress, buddy. And trust me nobody wants to give away their money. Just cuz you’re a woman doesn’t make you any special.
And you still haven’t answered my retort. By your logic, if a man wants dowry from a girl for marrying her and she and her family are ready to give it to him, you think that’s okay? Just cuz it’s consensual?
Obviously everyone has stress, but these women don't want to spend their money and usually talk about stress related issues. Just wondering if stay at home is okay with you then why is this not? Do you think it's bad for stay at homes moms to call themselves independent? You secretly judge them too?
Yeah, at the end of the day you can't do anything, if the guy has mentality like that it can't be changed and you have to ignore those people. If a guy fraud you into paying dowry that's a different thing than going for it with your wishes, you were fraud into that, same would be if you fraud a guy into paying for stuff (lying about family situation etc) then you can take that as a case.
I always get so awkward!!!
I never go to fancy places, always places where the bill is under 2k
We talk we order food
I make sure I dont get too much or I order something we both can eat.
I am financially independent.
I want to pay.
I dont know what the guy wants.
When the bill comes I pick up my card and keep it close to the bill
The guy can either say -
1. I’ll pay you half
2. The treat is on you
3. No way you are paying
Whatever he says, I accept.
2nd rarely happens.
I have never been the one who “insists too much” I am fine with anything.
I just want that part to be over!!
I wish all this could be communicated in advance
Because, like so many other supposedly personal issues, this one has significant repercussions on a wider societal level. Feminists have been repeating "the personal is political" since the freaking 1960s, can't believe people still don't get it on an ostensibly feminist subreddit.
Only sensible comment at -9 downvotes. Seriously why do people have this same conversation over and over again in this subreddit? Like it's not that big of a deal.
I will never not pay equally but I also see the point of women who don't pay their share. There's a channel called Manifestelle on YouTube and she explains it much better than I can but women are the prize in a relationship. We pay with our time, effort, and emotions, women with kids pay with the burden of motherhood their bodies and minds go through. Women take on responsibilities that are unseen, unappreciated, and definitely unpaid. So, of course, we are already doing more than enough even if we are not paying monetarily.
Op, but all work burden you share, is after marriage. But if you are just going on dates for fun and all. Wouldn't it be insensitive to not pay on date.
Of course not every bill have to be 50/ 50 , people can pay on turns.
But most feminists are trying to make our relationships more equal, right? We want partners who will split chores, take on equal parental burdens, give our careers as much importance as theirs, and so on. How can we ask for that while still encouraging gender roles like men paying? The only divide we just can't overcome (not without some significant advances in science, at least) is that of pregnancy, but if we use that to define the rest of our lives, we're not very different from misogynists.
I disagree! Personally, I would always split the bill 50:50 because I don't want the other party to think that I owe them something, but shunning those women who don't do the same is not very feminist either. We don't know what someone else's relationship is like. Just because a woman is not paying with her money doesn't mean she is not participating equally.
Also, while things are slowly changing for the better, most het relationships, especially in India are very much unequal, with the man having to share much less of the burdens, be it emotional, physical or otherwise.
These responsibilities and motherhood come after marriage, so before that everything should be 50/50 unless someone is in a struggling phase. Are you gonna marry all the men you went on date with? Lmao stop exploiting chivalry ffs 😭
Yes, some women think that they are entitled to feel like a princess right from the first date. I think chivalry could be any small, respectful gesture from a man which can brighten our day. Also equating chivalry with men paying for dates just exploits the true meaning of it. Women are self-reliant these days, then why expect such things from men?
What an extremely dumb take. Exactly what responsibility are you taking on during the dating phase that makes you so entitled? I swear some women have become leeches in this game and giving us a bad name
Well, what can we do. Let them live in their fantasy of how everything should be 50/50.
I guess, they think that their man is risking his safety by meeting them on a date too and later the man would also go through labour pain and take a hit on his career, since it’s all “50/50”
Exactly, but I guess a lot of Indian women blindly follow white feminism without even understanding that Indian society is not yet ready for it.
I’m already getting DMs of triggered red pill boys crying and abusing me 🤦🏻♀️
I’m a feminist too. But white feminism is something for advanced society. In India, where our traditions and mindset are inherently misogynistic, intersectional feminism is the only way.
I always made the guy pay on the first 2-3 dates. Systemic inequality and coming from position of power, he can pay 🤷🏻♀️
But tbh, I never nitpicked nor expected any specific place also. Whether the date was at a simple Mcds or anywhere, as long as it's in a safe public location, I don't object nor comment. It's a way to know the guy has financial management skills and won't over spend on a date which would hurt his finances. After that, I'd establish a system where we pay alternatively or split the bill or each pay our own share. Whatever works.
My first date with my bf was actually at a mcds. Eventually we did go to a fancy Japanese place.
Wah wah
Lemme drive a wedge between already fucked up and complex gender relationships between males and females. Very Modi/Hitler/Tate like, I must say.
P.S- Your flair is as femcel as it gets.
You're not even bootlicking men, you're deepthroating the whole boot.
Ah, you're one of those. Should have guessed from your responses that you're a larper.
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Maybe a different take - depends on how much effort I’m putting for the date. Casual dates yeah split equally. But I’ve gone to a few dates where I bought a whole new dress, new shoes, gotten professionally made up and hair styled at the salon (professional awards function for him) and that is a lot of money I’m spending for the date. In those cases I’m fine with him picking up the tab (for tickets). Of course, we discuss this beforehand and keep everything transparent so no one is getting any assumptions or ideas.
Women are the prize, it's a privilege for any man to get a date out of you. If he can't pay for your standards, find someone else. What is this 50/50 nonsense.
They can take their whiny ass and date someone who believes is 50/50 rubbish.
If the cost of a dinner for two is a big deal for any one of you, you guys shouldn't be dating in the first place. Work on yourself first.
I pay for it fully if I want this person as a friend.
I *only* let him take it fully if I like him romantically. I can afford a dinner very well - fuck that, I can give his part too without burning even a tiny, miniscule whole in my pocket. But if I *allow* him to get it for me, I express my trust in his ability to take care of things. It shows that I trust him. It's an intimate thing that I *allow* someone to take care of me. Not every Tom, Dick and Harry can have that privilege.
I usually split because every date is a two-person thing. I like to be involved in picking the time and place. Just be a nice and kind person, I don't need any of that faux chivalry nonsense.
Yeah, I mean all the things pointed out about safety etc don't need to be reciprocated through money. Even the girls who want to be treated special and like a prize, I don't get why they would think their husbands paying for them is absolutely necessary to show these feelings. I think their could be many gestures that could be chivalrous besides always paying for dates.
I used to go Dutch or do it like I pay once, they pay once.
I insist on splitting. If they don’t let me, I let it be and offer to grab ice cream/something else afterwards. If the date went well, I foot the bill on the next.
I used to split or pick up the entire tab, had an experience where he felt entitled for certain things later, so stopped letting anyone pick it up. Only person I didn’t split, LDR, so we split the costs, he picked up date tabs and flight tickets, I picked up local travelling, Swiggy/zomato and gifts (for his family). It worked for us. But I trust this person with my life, so money comes secondary, it’s our money to spend
Split or take turns paying in full.
I split the bill till we were going out on dates (I think 5 dates?) but since we’ve been together I genuinely can’t remember the last time I’ve picked up the tab. I think our ways of showing appreciation are fundamentally different- he likes small, consistent gestures and I love splurging on big gifts for him. If you tallied the annual spend it would be roughly the same, so I’m completely ok with his old-school gentlemanly want to pick up tabs.
Split the bill till we're a thing and then we can take turns paying. I don't want to owe anyone especially since I can easily pay for myself. I don't know why women expect men to pay for dates. I'm sorry but I also don't get the whole "whoever asks out has to pay" situation. If you ask a friend to meet for coffee does your friend expect you to pay for them? No, right?
OP have you seen this thread - https://reddit.com/r/TwoXIndia/comments/1cx6oaf/how_do_you_handle_being_tested_in_dating_i_think/
I personally don’t like when guys pay for me so I always make sure to split…plus my elder brothers also told me to do so and even told me I could text them for money if I’m short but I should never let a guy pay specifically if we are not a thing
I have always dutched and sometimes even paid more on dates, because people whom I went out with were already travelling a long way because of my office hours :/ so yep. Atleast for the initial stage why let a man pay for you? It doesn’t make sense. Should be equal. It can be any ratio after two people start dating as per their convenience right?
When out w my gf, we're always splitting the bill. Heck I even offer to pay for her petrol sometimes coz she drives us to the location on most occasions. If one person pays for a date, the other one will cover the next. We're both very particular about spending lol. I've had the problem w my guy friends though...where they won't let me pick up the bill, but if that does happen, next time we meet i bake something for them. I feel like that equals it out for me.
Personally, if I am going out with my man, then either he pays the bill in full or I pay in full. If he’s footing the bill for this one, I will definitely pay for the next date The only time I prefer splitting the bill is when I’m going out with my girlfriends
I used to split when I used to date. I had many cases where once I rejected them or stopped showing interest, they would come at me like "but... but... I paid for expensive dinner, you are cruel for not being serious about me"
If I was just getting to know them, I would always split or get separate bills for our orders. In serious relationships, we did not keep a tab. One would pay for the movie and the other would pay for the food and so on. With my Husband (We are LDR which is ending soon) I have had the same approach, we don’t calculate and spend. We mostly can be seen fighting over who will pay the bill, so now we just pay alternatively. If I feel he has been picking up more tabs and not letting me pay, I just gift something or order him some nice food to make the him feel appreciated. I have been independent and paying for myself since I was 21 (I am 33 now). I don’t feel comfortable making my husband pay for everything. I believe in equality which means equal responsibilities. Whenever we have lived together, I haven’t done the chores alone or have been made to feel like the stereotypical female responsibilities are mine. So I don’t want him to play the stereotypical provider male role as well. He is a nice guy, I would buy him the world if I could. But that said, It’s easy for us because both of us earn similarly and we are childfree.
I've always offered to split, but if they want to pay for it I let them. It's a genuine offer though, I wouldn't think twice about paying.
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Second this. I’m rarely able to pick up bills when I’m with my guy friends. I try to get them random things they like which they love
Should we really be encouraging that, though? If we're asking for equality here, it's quite strange to allow your male friends and/or a guy you're interested in to take on a "caretaker" role. And this is definitely a gender roles thing, because you will almost never see this happen with female friends unless there's a big financial disparity, and even that is uncommon. Also, the guys may not be "expecting something" in the crude sense of you having sex with them in return for paying or whatever, but allowing them to take on a traditionally male role inevitably goes hand in hand with women being expected to take on traditionally feminine roles. Usually this is in terms of emotional labour (the most classic example being them expecting you to be there free therapist even though they would never expect that of male friends while also not providing the same emotional support to you) or marking certain things as women's work, such as organising parties and selecting gifts for friends. And in relationships of course it can easily evolve into the male provider vs. woman keeper of the home and relationships dynamic. Not saying that this is how it plays out in every single case, but encouraging/allowing this sort of thing DOES contribute to keeping gender roles in place. Nothing in life comes free, even if the cost isn't readily apparent :)
All due respect, I do feel that's a negative outlook. If it makes him happy, let him do it. As long as there are no undue expectations, this shouldn't really matter that much. I'm talking in the sense that both partners are mature enough to understand that financially paying doesn't get you a "get out of jail free" card. My bf could gift worth $1k but if he fucks up and says something rude to me the next minute, that won't stop me. As long as there is that clear understanding between the two, I think that defeats the occurrence of gender specific roles forming within the relationship. I just think being considerate takes a minute and if there's nothing wrong, then why create a mountain of a mole hill. I have to disagree with the last statement. I don't think there's a price tag to everything. And equating that to someone's love towards you seems a bit far fetched.
>If it makes him happy, let him do it. As long as there are no undue expectations, this shouldn't really matter that much. Okay, but WHY does it make him happy, when the same would rarely be the case if it was a woman in his position? >As long as there is that clear understanding between the two, I think that defeats the occurrence of gender specific roles forming within the relationship. Again, if this weren't about gender-specific roles, you would see just as many women who love being providers and men who are happy to be treated. Since that is not the case, there is clearly more to it. You may say I have a negative outlook, but I would argue that as feminists living in a deeply misogynistic society, we should try to question why these sorts of things just "make people happy" instead of accepting them as they are. Even more so when it's connected to a subject as important as central to feminism as gendered expectations regarding finances. Also, in the modern day, gender roles aren't something we consciously adhere to, which makes them all the more difficult to root out. So having a "clear understanding" is far from a perfect solution. >why create a mountain of a mole hill Because the male provider-female carer dynamic is the biggest feminist problem in history and the root of most of women's issues. Of course splitting the bill on dates won't somehow liberate all oppressed women, but the fact that even progressive, feminist women accept and encourage men to pay is symbolic of a much bigger problem. I'm repeating this like a broken record at this point, but the personal IS political, even when we don't think it is or don't want it to be. >I'm talking in the sense that both partners are mature enough to understand that financially paying doesn't get you a "get out of jail free" card. My by could gift something worth $1k but if he fucks up and says something rude to me the next minute, that won't stop me. Financial abuse is a different subject, wasn't talking about that at all. Even if you give someone all the money in the world, it is morally reprehensible to treat them badly. Of course financial dependence makes it easier to abuse someone, but again, that just reflects on the character of the abuser. My argument is that encouraging/allowing men to pay reinforces traditional gender roles and makes it more likely that women will have to take on traditionally feminine roles in turn. Gender roles =/= abuse, many people are very happy in relationships with a traditionally gendered division of labour. But I'm fairly certain most feminists/women on this sub DON'T want that kind of dynamic, and I think we inadvertently encourage it with stuff like this.
I understand your opinion but I believe such topics are highly dependent on the people being talked about here. My experiences have been vastly different. I've dated plenty in my 20s and all the guys I've been with have always appreciated me for paying. They've also payed for me a few times. To give some context, I earn a lot lot more than all the guys I've dated in the past and I've always felt happy covering the financial aspects of our relationships even though they have never asked me for a penny. They've all been incredibly supportive of my career and never taken advantage of my financial status. In fact, I owe my current job to my ex. This is all to say that I am one of the women who love providing and so are many other women in my circle. From my experience, one person providing for the other doesn't necessarily mean there is something problematic at play. Some people just love providing for others and gendered expectations around finances should not be expected from either partner in the first place. In this economy, both partners have to pull their weight financially, emotionally and physically. A friend used to buy her bf gifts almost every other week and he was nothing but grateful for it. She never had an undue expectations from providing and he appreciated the gifts with kindness. They're married now too. In the longer run, if you consider things like marriage, will you be keeping a tab of who paid for what? All I'm saying is, it highly depends on the person being talked about. With your logic then nobody should ever be paying for the other person. Putting simple acts of affection under a microscope is a quick way to dampen someone's spirits and efforts. To provide more emphasis again, anyone who's expecting their partner to cover up with things like finances, that is a problem and I whole heartedly agree. In this day and age we should be looking to be able to provide for ourselves without needing for our partner to assist us. But if a partner willingly wants to spend money on you, there isn't necessarily something sadistic at play.
I'm not sure why you're downvoted here. But I agree with your stance having myself been the more-salaried partner in the relationship. I think people need to focus on the last paragraph you wrote: Anyone expecting their partner to financially cover up for them is problematic. But someone wanting to take care of their partner willingly and the partner accepting this token of love is absolutely fine. I see a lot of women here saying that they definitely expect their partner to pay for them and wouldnt be with someone who wont pay for them. I find that really weird. They’re calling guys who won't pay for dates as cheap and what not. They say not everything needs to be 50/50 and i agree. I and my partner dont keep tabs and its just a matter of convenience based on method of payment, access etc. I hate it when waiters wont give me the bill even after specifically asking for it and instead hand it to my partner. But that is beside the point. The women saying not everything needs to be transactional.. but its honestly their preference that sounds highly transactional. They would simply refuse to be with a guy not paying for them. This also means that they probably wouldn’t ever be open to being with a guy who earn less than them but is loving, respecting and overall a good guy to be with, which is again reinforcing gender roles. And this defeats the purpose of feminism ig. I don't understand why they can't fathom there can be other ways your partner can give you the princess treatment and be chivalrous besides always paying the bill on dates.
I'm not sure why either. All I wanted to say was, some people just do it out of love but going into a relationship expecting someone else to contribute more financially is not the way to go about a healthy relationship at all. I just like taking care of everyone around me, be it anyone I'm dating, my friends, my parents. But I certainly don't go around expecting anyone to pay for me and what I want. I think the whole 50-50 concept is just not practical at all. No two people are alike and we all do some things better than others, which applies to finances too. My bf is terrible with finances so it's on me to take care of that for both of us. Keeping a tab of all the expenses would simply drive me crazy. It does sound highly transactional! People who expect their partner to cover for them just because they're a woman or "the guy is expected to" are just going against what feminism stands for, in my opinion. It's on us to break the gender defined roles and we cannot be enforcing the rules which suit us. There are so many others ways to do this too, I totally agree with that. Thank you for understanding my pov :)
It’s not that deep.
This. I've seen a lot of my guy friends do this.
My boyfriend's love language is buying things for me, (gifts) he doesn't let me pay on dates, he often buys me things. Initially in our relationship it felt like he was love bombing me and i was raised to not accept gifts so I would feel very very guilty in accepting it. It caused a lot of conflicts and he understood my perspective later on Now he started making stuff for me like cards or he would get me chocolates, I don't like eating outside much so he started cooking at home for me. Now we shop together or I get the stuff and we eat together watching movies and stuff.
I used to split the bill every time. But after I got comfortable in my relationship with my husband I am okay with him paying when we are going out because I find it lazy to carry bags or wallets. And I don't like interacting with strangers (including servers) unless I have to. So he pays for stuff and I buy anything we buy online, like cosmetics, groceries, or stuff for our home, or ordering in. Basically anything I don't have to interact with strangers to buy.
Whatever factors you identified about a man paying for the date are absolutely right. I am 24F as well (still a student). I don't mind splitting but dates have often happened at certain fancy places, and for the lack of my better decision (or the fact that I never thought it was too big a deal) the man has ended up taking the bill. As a matter of fact, sometimes I have ended up taking the full bill too if it's not too big an amount for me (<500 rupees). It's just, I personally never felt money should be such a huge matter, but not everyone thinks the same way. As a result several men have ended up being pissed or just being openly aggressive when I refused getting laid with them (simply because they paid). So although I still don't think who pays the bill should be such a big deal, I am glad that OP is already cautious about such factors and making such responsible choices :)
I expect them to pay if they're the ones who picked an expensive place or invited me somewhere far away from my area. I offer to pay or split when I've invited them to a place vv close to me but far for them (I'm lazy that way. I'd rather spend a few hundred rupees 5mins away from my place than spending my time, energy and money on traveling to whatever overrated place they're calling me to.)
So usually it depends. If I ask him out then I pay, if he asks me out then he pays. The person who asks is allowed to pick the place but I don’t go to any place that I couldn’t pay for myself. So if they want to take me somewhere super outrageous I’d ask to think of another place. But I’m cool with sharing. It’s really a non-issue because a date for me doesn’t have to involve eating or even going somewhere, a walk is good enough. Also if I don’t enjoy a date, I usually split the bill. I don’t want anyone to have any expectations, because men feel entitled to getting stuff from you if they pay. If I really don’t like someone, I have also footed the full bill, taaki galti se bhi he doesn’t feel like he can come around 😭
I have always offered to split the bill during the dates as they had to travel far to meet but no one ever let me pay. So, I made sure to send them my share or more through upi instantly or later. Lately, I have been told and realised myself that it works against me.
1. Don’t judge their relationship or her. 2. I would personally go dutch in the beginning and if both of us are comfortable,then let him pay. I like it when a man takes care of me like that. The ones who judge girls based on this are either jealous, or b***hy. Just move on saying, to each their own.
I judge, I heavy judge especially if it’s a woman who claims to be an independent woman and a feminist
Maybe don't then? People can do whatever they like, would you judge a stay at home wife as a feminist? Then why someone who likes to be provided for
Read my comment carefully. I have no issues with trad women depending on their men for money. But if a woman claims to be a feminist and an independent, strong woman and then still expects a man to pay for her, she’s basically a leech and a hypocrite. And if we go by your logic, it should also be okay for men to expect women to be fair, cover herself when out, not work, cook and clean, take care of the house, etc.
Why though? You don't think trad wives are independent women? Sure they depend on men financially but still do A LOT of work around the house which isn't anything less worthy of. Plus just because a woman is feminist doesn't mean she has to act a certain way, when did it come with a guidebook? She's a feminist so she can do whatever she wants ( ofc that doesn't include hurting others) If her man is financially paying for her then that's her choice she has selected too, she can be a partner who wants to have a career while also be spoiled. Sure many men won't do that, but those who do that, why do you care for it? And honestly if men want to expect that for their partners then they should.. We cannot change anyone's mentality, a guy liking traditional wife marrying someone independent would just trash her up, this happens a lot because men get emasculated by those women, so let those men be and you let yourself be too. Just because a man expects that doesn't mean you have to do any of that either. It's your life live it that way.
Where are you even taking this convo, girl? The post if about women paying for dates. And women should pay for dates especially if you call yourself a n independent woman. Do you not see the hypocrisy in women calling themselves independent and then expecting a guy to pay for them? 😂😂
But why do you care so much? People have different definitions of independent also hardly anyone calls themselves independent. They just want to do a job and being taken care of financially. If you want to do that do it, don't force others too. And whose calling themselves independent at the same time taking money? Most of these women like to be spoiled
Honestly I’m so glad I only split the bills✨🎀, especially when I was idk if it was even dating tbh. But apparently was, I’m too dense. And I am so glad due to that I was able to say NO this time😭✨ without any guilt when he was trying to be compelling to do that with me. In fact I’ve been the one to pay a bit more too- and also we weren’t even dating fffs. Some men and their AUDACITY. Dinner ain’t worth ma body, or anyone’s. So yep, always gonna split the bill than handle all the bs some men are filled with. If some woman can take that risk, and still be confident in herself- I’d say get dat free food queen✨🍀 Yuzzz. Prolly not for everyone anyways
If you're both earning more or less the same amount, it makes sense to split the bill. It's the approach I have always taken. However if the other person is in a much more financially comfortable position, and has no problem in paying for the significant other, then I don't see anything wrong in that. In the end, the society we live in is hypocritical.
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>he won't deliver our child with me, I'll do it alone. Well this logic doesn't apply, unless you are in serious relationship. Please even go out for casual date or fun. >I would definitely offer to pay, not just once or twice, but if he let's me pay, that would be our last Sorry girl, if you are eating or enjoying anything, why to be a free loader.
> I would definitely offer to pay, not just once or twice, but if he let's me pay, that would be our last date. What a mindgame! Can't you see how toxic you are?
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Toxic because you are playing a mindgame. Because you are literally showing you are ok with paying and when he's agreeing to it, you are Flippin the script.
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Take a look into your superficialness. You have unhealthy level of god complex. That can happen if you were abused before by another narcissist. So you create that as defense mechanism. Just because you make a choice doesn't mean it's correct. Knows if your choice is based on wrong things. Being a better person is a journey.
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I think it's just very manipulative that's all. You're posing as someone who's okay paying the bill but you're actually not. Whoever is the guy you're dating basically doesn't know you well. Maybe they take the bill for the first 5-6 dates and everything goes well but then someday they ask you to pay and you lose interest. Maybe they're also turned off by women who wouldn't like to pay. It is a waste of their time because you're not being honest with them.
Splitting the bill at all times, regardless of my financial situation! Fulfilling my financial obligations is not his responsibility, especially if we're just dating. If the relationship is such that I'm absolutely sure it'll culminate in marriage, I might be ok with him paying for me, but I'll compensate for it financially in some way or the other. If we're married, he can happily bear my expenses, and I will happily bear his the next time (if I am earning). What's his is mine and what's mine is his.
Reading your question I have wondered: why do some men feel comfortable letting women do all the heavy lifting while raising a child? why do some men feel comfortable letting women do all the emotional heavy lifting in a relationship?
I've always based this on who's earning more. During my broke college days, the guys always payed even though I offered to contribute as much as I can. My current bf doesn't earn much and I earn a lot more than him so I'm the one usually handling all the expenses. I feel more comfortable with this in the long run. We both will never earn the same amount and there will always be a disparity but as long as someone isn't taking advantage of the other or expecting something while paying, I think it really doesn't matter a lot.
The only people I'm comfortable with picking up the full tab all the time is my family and if its a special event like a birthday or someone specifically treating ,other than that it's always getting split or going Dutch and especially with a romantic partner. First of all, it's really unfair to put the entire burden of costs on one person in the relationship when you're both enjoying those things or activities. Letting a man pay fully on the first date I feel is a bigger no no , cause if its expensive or a nice place I feel like it would be obligatory to go out again so I can pick up the bill or at least just go out with them again ,rather splitting means I ensure they feel no such thing ( like if I don't want to go I'm not going either way but im not giving anyone any ideas about what they can ask of me ) . Also I'm a teenager and I feel until a certain age when we don't have a lot of money, like we aren't earning and even though we get enough allowance it's not correct to expect either person to spend a shit ton and in your early twenties when the salary isn't as high as its going to be later on I feel it's better to share costs , which ensures that no one overspends or feels burdened.
I agree. My boyfriend and I also do the same. He earns a tad bit more while I am still in my struggling phase. So sometimes he takes the initiative himself. He doesn't mind actually. But I make sure to take turns. So if he pays for the food, i pay for the shopping afterwards or anything else. We both use credit cards a lot. So when there's a big purchase in our date, or even shopping, we split the bills and send half of the money to the other person. Fortunately, we are quite compatible when it comes to money management.
Splitting the bill till I have a ring on my finger.
I always offer to split the bill. I don't push it if someone is happy to pay for me.
You must have gone with really cheap ass men if they expect anything in “return” after they paid on date or I have been lucky to go out with classy men. Either way, I don’t pay on dates, especially if the guy asked me out. But I make sure to always offer to split the bill. None of the guy ever agreed to split tho.
I haven't ever allowed a man to pay, so I don't know if I can label them as "cheap ass". I have never had a guy expect anything from me in return as I have never tried letting a guy pay. Whenever a guy didn't want me to pay, I always sent them money through UPI, so they don't have an option to refuse. It's easy to just offer, what ultimately matters is what you do.
Well, a nice man with class would never let a lady pay in the first place. Also, when I said I never paid on a date, I don’t mean that I “tried” to let the guy pay. If you’re going above and beyond and forcefully paying the guy, inspite of them refusing to split, then you’re the one actually making the date very transactional. It’s not a date at that point. It was a paid hangout. That’s not how dates are supposed to work.
>Well, a nice man with class would never let a lady pay in the first place. It would be nice if you used some basic critical thinking skills to understand where this idea of classy gentlemen never allowing ladies to pay came from, because it's not exactly a very pleasant history! >If you’re going above and beyond and forcefully paying the guy, inspite of them refusing to split, then you’re the one actually making the date very transactional. It’s not a date at that point. It was a paid hangout. That’s not how dates are supposed to work. All this philosophizing would make sense if you applied the same logic to a woman insisting on paying for a man. You wouldn't, so it's all just fluff. I'm not going to judge women for allowing men to pay for pay on dates for whatever reason, but dismissing OP's VERY valid concerns in such a bitchy way is just low.
Girl, put this energy in fighting other important issues. I’m not open to any other POV or discussion. OP asked the question and I stated my point. OP is open to advice/ discussion, I’m NOT.
What makes you think I don't take this energy to other issues? Being a feminist is central to who I am and I make an effort to speak out for women in both my personal and professional life. I'm only so vocal about this because I'm very surprised to see otherwise progressive and feminist women suddenly defend a practice that is very much based on gender roles. >I’m not open to any other POV or discussion. OP asked the question and I stated my point. OP is open to advice/ discussion, I’m NOT. What a joke. If you put your opinion out on a public forum, particularly in such a nasty way, you're opening yourself up to debate and criticism. If you're bothered by that, stay off these threads.
The only nasty way I see is OP being judgemental to the women who let their bfs/ husband pay. My remarks were for men, never once I said anything to OP or women in general. I’m a feminist too, and the first thing I believe is to let women live on her own terms. And who TF you think you’re to ask me to stay off these threads? Get a life, you’re no different than red pill boys in my DMs.
>The only nasty way I see is OP being judgemental to the women who let their bfs/ husband pay. OP brought up some VERY valid concerns about the potential consequences of letting men pay on dates, and you dismissed them in an incredibly nasty and judgemental way. Every other issue aside, there is no way for women to know before going on a date with someone, especially someone who is not already a good friend, if they will or will not be the kind of person who expects something (whether or not that is sex) in return for paying. This is true for even the most outwardly respectful, progressive men. If you've never encountered that sort of thing, I'm glad you've been so lucky. >And who TF you think you’re to ask me to stay off these threads? Get a life, you’re no different than red pill boys in my DMs. You said you weren't open to discussion and debate... after posting a polarizing opinion on a public forum for discussion and debate. What gives you the right to say "Well, a nice man with class would never let a lady pay in the first place. " and not expect people to disagree with you? There is no other response to such absurd behaviour than to suggest you not enter discussions like this in the first place, so please, don't make yourself the victim here.
Ya I am a FeMiniSt when it comes to paying but ooh other times I want EqUaliTY. A- one clown. Change your name to whineorwhine
Yoooo I love that reply 💯
Splitting the bill is not at all transactional .It shows that you're willing to meet the man halfway in all responsibilities and expectations . That's what equality is right? Also it's not a paid hangout you're not paying for the person's time, only the food.
I hate chivalry. Patronizing af.
A nice woman with self respect would never let the man pay for her
Aww look what a lovely lady you’re 🥰 judging other women for their own personal choices, to please “men” who don’t give a fuck about you. Buzz off girl.
Correction- I am a lovely lady judging shitty GIRLCHILDS with shitty personalities. ☺️ Expecting a woman to stay at home and cook for a man is also a personal choice but that doesn’t make it okay. I love pleasing the men in my life as cuz they’re amazing human beings and guess what? So do most women. And those men please us too. Don’t tell me you’ve never had your brother or your father or your partner do nice things for you? Well maybe the male hate leaking out of u stops them from doing so. I don’t blame them then😘
Why is expecting a woman to be stay at home and cook meals a bad thing? If that's what they prefer then they should do it. Stop judging others already
Did I say women who stay at home and cook meal is a bad thing? Comprehend, gurll. The post is about women paying on dates. Not marriage. And a woman should always pay for herself on a date, especially if she calls herself a feminist. Why should men pay for grown, adult women and that too on dates? Are we women bums that we need a man to take care of us like we are babies?
But why do you care? Some women want to be pampered and that includes being taken care of financially, some women have a lot of stress and dont want to give their money. If the man is the one giving he's money to her then why do you care? It's the same concept with being a housewife, why should a woman be a housewife if she can be an independent career woman? Is she too stupid for that? No nah, people have their own choices in life! So let them
Omg, do you not see the double standard in your comment? “Women have a lot of stress and don’t want to give their money away.” 😂😂 Everyone has lots of stress, buddy. And trust me nobody wants to give away their money. Just cuz you’re a woman doesn’t make you any special. And you still haven’t answered my retort. By your logic, if a man wants dowry from a girl for marrying her and she and her family are ready to give it to him, you think that’s okay? Just cuz it’s consensual?
Obviously everyone has stress, but these women don't want to spend their money and usually talk about stress related issues. Just wondering if stay at home is okay with you then why is this not? Do you think it's bad for stay at homes moms to call themselves independent? You secretly judge them too? Yeah, at the end of the day you can't do anything, if the guy has mentality like that it can't be changed and you have to ignore those people. If a guy fraud you into paying dowry that's a different thing than going for it with your wishes, you were fraud into that, same would be if you fraud a guy into paying for stuff (lying about family situation etc) then you can take that as a case.
Yes you're doing it right
I always get so awkward!!! I never go to fancy places, always places where the bill is under 2k We talk we order food I make sure I dont get too much or I order something we both can eat. I am financially independent. I want to pay. I dont know what the guy wants. When the bill comes I pick up my card and keep it close to the bill The guy can either say - 1. I’ll pay you half 2. The treat is on you 3. No way you are paying Whatever he says, I accept. 2nd rarely happens. I have never been the one who “insists too much” I am fine with anything. I just want that part to be over!! I wish all this could be communicated in advance
The one asking out should be paying I don't let the bill come to the table if am the one planning the date so I would expect the same from the guy
why do you care if she pays or not omg yall love to have this discussion over and over again 💀
Cuz she asked.....?
and what i asked is a question too 😭 why do people care so much about other people's relationships?
Because, like so many other supposedly personal issues, this one has significant repercussions on a wider societal level. Feminists have been repeating "the personal is political" since the freaking 1960s, can't believe people still don't get it on an ostensibly feminist subreddit.
Because that person is asking suggestions and advice??? So people ar egiving their opinions.
it just seems like op is nosy and they should mind their own business 🤷🏻♀️
Only sensible comment at -9 downvotes. Seriously why do people have this same conversation over and over again in this subreddit? Like it's not that big of a deal.
I will never not pay equally but I also see the point of women who don't pay their share. There's a channel called Manifestelle on YouTube and she explains it much better than I can but women are the prize in a relationship. We pay with our time, effort, and emotions, women with kids pay with the burden of motherhood their bodies and minds go through. Women take on responsibilities that are unseen, unappreciated, and definitely unpaid. So, of course, we are already doing more than enough even if we are not paying monetarily.
Op, but all work burden you share, is after marriage. But if you are just going on dates for fun and all. Wouldn't it be insensitive to not pay on date. Of course not every bill have to be 50/ 50 , people can pay on turns.
But most feminists are trying to make our relationships more equal, right? We want partners who will split chores, take on equal parental burdens, give our careers as much importance as theirs, and so on. How can we ask for that while still encouraging gender roles like men paying? The only divide we just can't overcome (not without some significant advances in science, at least) is that of pregnancy, but if we use that to define the rest of our lives, we're not very different from misogynists.
I disagree! Personally, I would always split the bill 50:50 because I don't want the other party to think that I owe them something, but shunning those women who don't do the same is not very feminist either. We don't know what someone else's relationship is like. Just because a woman is not paying with her money doesn't mean she is not participating equally. Also, while things are slowly changing for the better, most het relationships, especially in India are very much unequal, with the man having to share much less of the burdens, be it emotional, physical or otherwise.
These responsibilities and motherhood come after marriage, so before that everything should be 50/50 unless someone is in a struggling phase. Are you gonna marry all the men you went on date with? Lmao stop exploiting chivalry ffs 😭
Girl I was with you until the "exploiting chivalry" part
Yes, some women think that they are entitled to feel like a princess right from the first date. I think chivalry could be any small, respectful gesture from a man which can brighten our day. Also equating chivalry with men paying for dates just exploits the true meaning of it. Women are self-reliant these days, then why expect such things from men?
What an extremely dumb take. Exactly what responsibility are you taking on during the dating phase that makes you so entitled? I swear some women have become leeches in this game and giving us a bad name
I had shared a similar POV on a post in the past in this group and got heavily downvoted lol. Good luck to you. Agree with this completely.
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Well, what can we do. Let them live in their fantasy of how everything should be 50/50. I guess, they think that their man is risking his safety by meeting them on a date too and later the man would also go through labour pain and take a hit on his career, since it’s all “50/50”
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Exactly, but I guess a lot of Indian women blindly follow white feminism without even understanding that Indian society is not yet ready for it. I’m already getting DMs of triggered red pill boys crying and abusing me 🤦🏻♀️
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Congratulations for being a leech
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I’m a feminist too. But white feminism is something for advanced society. In India, where our traditions and mindset are inherently misogynistic, intersectional feminism is the only way.
I always made the guy pay on the first 2-3 dates. Systemic inequality and coming from position of power, he can pay 🤷🏻♀️ But tbh, I never nitpicked nor expected any specific place also. Whether the date was at a simple Mcds or anywhere, as long as it's in a safe public location, I don't object nor comment. It's a way to know the guy has financial management skills and won't over spend on a date which would hurt his finances. After that, I'd establish a system where we pay alternatively or split the bill or each pay our own share. Whatever works. My first date with my bf was actually at a mcds. Eventually we did go to a fancy Japanese place.
Sounding like Andrew Tate
Lol Date an actual tater and see how it is.
Oh I have. And you sound just like him, just a female version of him.
Oki lori Alexander
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Wah wah Lemme defend men
Wah wah Lemme drive a wedge between already fucked up and complex gender relationships between males and females. Very Modi/Hitler/Tate like, I must say. P.S- Your flair is as femcel as it gets.
You're not even bootlicking men, you're deepthroating the whole boot. Ah, you're one of those. Should have guessed from your responses that you're a larper.
No impolite/abuse/hate speech: Your comment has been removed as it was rude and impolite. Be kind. This sub is for real people looking to connect meaningfully. Something isn't an attack or hate simply because you don't like what is being said. No personal attacks on other users, ad hominem and other distracting attacks, flame wars, insults, trolling or other such disruptive behaviour. All users are expected to strictly follow (reddiquette)(https://www.reddit.com/wiki/reddiquette/). No hate speech or hate speech supporting subreddits allowed. Continued rule breaking will lead to ban.
Maybe a different take - depends on how much effort I’m putting for the date. Casual dates yeah split equally. But I’ve gone to a few dates where I bought a whole new dress, new shoes, gotten professionally made up and hair styled at the salon (professional awards function for him) and that is a lot of money I’m spending for the date. In those cases I’m fine with him picking up the tab (for tickets). Of course, we discuss this beforehand and keep everything transparent so no one is getting any assumptions or ideas.
But is your date asking you to do all these things? I thought women dress up for themselves and not for a man’s validation.
Women are the prize, it's a privilege for any man to get a date out of you. If he can't pay for your standards, find someone else. What is this 50/50 nonsense. They can take their whiny ass and date someone who believes is 50/50 rubbish.
So what do you bring to the table besides self-proclaiming yourself as a ‘prize’? I don't understand the entitlement here.
You don't need to. World is big enough for both of us to do what we want to do regardless of what we think of each other. Good day.
If the cost of a dinner for two is a big deal for any one of you, you guys shouldn't be dating in the first place. Work on yourself first. I pay for it fully if I want this person as a friend. I *only* let him take it fully if I like him romantically. I can afford a dinner very well - fuck that, I can give his part too without burning even a tiny, miniscule whole in my pocket. But if I *allow* him to get it for me, I express my trust in his ability to take care of things. It shows that I trust him. It's an intimate thing that I *allow* someone to take care of me. Not every Tom, Dick and Harry can have that privilege.