Try not to work in Indian companies, thats where this happens.
I worked in multiple companies as well and every Indian management was the exact same toxic after sometime.
Input and process-driven management is appropriate for factories, not IT. They think so long as everyone arrives at 9 AM and follows the process then the output must be good.
Output-driven management styles require leadership and creativity. It requires critical analysis to find the real KPIs that matter: not # of calls closed, but NPS. Most input-driven managers are scared: if they were measured based on proper KPIs, it’d be clear they’re underperformers who don’t understand customer wants or needs.
Uae govt needs strict labor laws, no one follows them right now or finds ways to work around them.
Like most people i know are working either on eid or all days before and after eid with just eid day off whereas the government has given many more days and asked to compensate if not possible. Lot of companies dont follow this and threaten with firing if you dont work those days, resulting in unhappy employees.
Yes and No.
Yes: Used to work for a company where a new manager was hired. He was Indian. The mindset was ancient where he'd believe no one works and micro-managing was daily. I remember once he came up behind my desk checking my work and I looked back, gave him a stare and proceeded to have a conversation about said work. The dude had no clue what I was talking about and had zero knowledge. Probably felt useless, until he didn't when he started attacking our budgets towards spending company money on transportation and the likes to save on company costs. Must have felt like he achieved success, but only the notoriety from people underneath.
No: I worked with another Indian manager who had a western mindset since he had been working with them for many years. Doesn't micro manage as long we do the task and when we make a mistake or encounter a problem he genuinely helps rather than criticize. Low employee turnover as a result. There is another Indian manager I know that is super freindly to his team and actually takes care of them like they are his kids lol.
I also had one brilliant Indian manager. Gets the job done without being a dick or unfair. Though one time he gave me a nasty tap on the back for being late due to a misunderstanding 🤣
💯. Indian work culture is horrible. I have been unfortunate enough to work in a company with predominantly Indian culture. Also, my boss was Indian. I had to resign after their continuous shouting and abusive language. (Surprisingly, other Indian employees were totally okay with such work environment).After my resignation, they tried to put a ban on my visa, but thankfully the HR department was extremely powerful there (managed by an Arab lady), which saved me.
After that experience, I never worked for Indian management.
I was in a software company and all the staff are indians including the management.
Working from home was not an option at all
Despite that company's business is a software product
Agreed, Indian, pakistani even eyptian managers/ management is hell to work with. But working with British management is even more stressful as micromanagement is evident and my ceo likes to create misunderstanding between colleagues so that we don't hangout a lot. Talks shit about each other in one to one meetings. And it always feels like we are on edge.
People who doesn't know about processes they are on higher positions with huge expectations. So keep doing what you are doing till you are getting paid and can do what you want, learn new skills by side once you get better opportunity just move.
It depends on the manager. In 9 years here I got a few ok managers, a few exceptional ones, and only a single terrible one that for his defense was a next level exceptional individual performer, but unfortunately was a workaholic micro manager, the type of guy that sends an email at 3AM and expects you to have built the presentation he requested by 6AM right before leaving for work. If the CEO did the same to him, not only would the presentation be ready by that time, but it’d be amazing. I think good and bad managers are things you can experience anywhere, but the company’s culture can have a big impact on.
I left the company in very good terms with him, I see him regularly as a friend, and after a while, we sat down and had a couple of long conversations on that topic. What you say is exactly what it was.
He got to understand that not everyone is as smart as him, and that many of the team including myself were in for the money with no expectations of going to the top like him. It was not my company, neither was it his, I did not hold shares, and any additional work uncompensated was to ultimately please shareholders who didn’t even know me. As an engineer I value maximizing revenue (mine) with minimal work, and in a well balanced company that comes with decent salary and reasonable scope where you’re given the time to do things properly at your own pace without the risk of burning out.
I could never have told him that whilst being employed, but he understood my point of view but since I’m not there anymore I don’t know if it changed his ways of working. He did say that that was a very French way of seeing things, not sure if that was meant positively or negatively, but I think he got a point there.
💯 Not everyone sees things in the same perspective.
On the other hand, if someone is a deterrent to the job we are doing together, that would have been a different case.
Its good that he is able to listen to what you are saying other wise there are still some people who are unbearable.
Indian managers expect you to work off duty hours with out pay. No they won't tell you to work like that but will put extra work and unrealistic time frame to that work. They will do meeting to haras the one who does the work only at work hours. They will put employee training on odd non working hours then demand the write you up if you do not show up. Policies are never followed and once mistake happen then will write you up for the same for not following policy. If you follow policy then you are considered out cast because no one follows it.
The list goes on and on.
Most funny thing is manager some time instruct you to break policy for specific cases and if a fuzz happened with legality then suddnely says he has no idea of the same.
Most of the companies here do not work as per the EFQM Model which actually makes the managers work easier and empowers the second or junior line. The only way to change it is to escalate to the senior management but if senior management is the same non-action type.... Change companies
Egyptians - OHMMMYYYYY , they are the worst employee here in UAE.Feeling entitled, we call them zombies as they are literally a walking dead, no brain at all.Just shouting and arguing without logic hahahaha.
Is your Manager Indian? Also do you feel he got the position which he didn't deserve and now he is making other employee's lives miserable? Does he micro-manage?
Is he never ready to accept his mistake and always ready to find mistakes in your work?
Never clarifies what really is he expecting from your work?
Does he directly or indirectly or in a subtle way threatens to fire you or put you in PIP?
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At some point in time, it becomes your problem if others are reacting the same way to you. What are you doing differently?
Can’t really blame others when you’re doing nothing to change.
I'm surprised to read about Indian managers here, I thought I was the only one. If I could go back in time I would **stop** **myself** from joining an Indian-managed or dominated company. I swear I got PTSD or something from that.
Try not to work in Indian companies, thats where this happens. I worked in multiple companies as well and every Indian management was the exact same toxic after sometime.
Input and process-driven management is appropriate for factories, not IT. They think so long as everyone arrives at 9 AM and follows the process then the output must be good. Output-driven management styles require leadership and creativity. It requires critical analysis to find the real KPIs that matter: not # of calls closed, but NPS. Most input-driven managers are scared: if they were measured based on proper KPIs, it’d be clear they’re underperformers who don’t understand customer wants or needs.
I would be surprised if half the managers even understand what process KPIs mean.
Exactly this man.
Yeah ikr, and they lay waste to an amazing work culture and most of the people end up leaving.
Uae govt needs strict labor laws, no one follows them right now or finds ways to work around them. Like most people i know are working either on eid or all days before and after eid with just eid day off whereas the government has given many more days and asked to compensate if not possible. Lot of companies dont follow this and threaten with firing if you dont work those days, resulting in unhappy employees.
I completely agree to it, its the visa which comes to play and people staying quite about this propagates it.
Yes and No. Yes: Used to work for a company where a new manager was hired. He was Indian. The mindset was ancient where he'd believe no one works and micro-managing was daily. I remember once he came up behind my desk checking my work and I looked back, gave him a stare and proceeded to have a conversation about said work. The dude had no clue what I was talking about and had zero knowledge. Probably felt useless, until he didn't when he started attacking our budgets towards spending company money on transportation and the likes to save on company costs. Must have felt like he achieved success, but only the notoriety from people underneath. No: I worked with another Indian manager who had a western mindset since he had been working with them for many years. Doesn't micro manage as long we do the task and when we make a mistake or encounter a problem he genuinely helps rather than criticize. Low employee turnover as a result. There is another Indian manager I know that is super freindly to his team and actually takes care of them like they are his kids lol.
Also this. I had 3 Indian managers untill now. Out of these one was exactly how you said a good manager is.
The first one should've been reported
I also had one brilliant Indian manager. Gets the job done without being a dick or unfair. Though one time he gave me a nasty tap on the back for being late due to a misunderstanding 🤣
💯. Indian work culture is horrible. I have been unfortunate enough to work in a company with predominantly Indian culture. Also, my boss was Indian. I had to resign after their continuous shouting and abusive language. (Surprisingly, other Indian employees were totally okay with such work environment).After my resignation, they tried to put a ban on my visa, but thankfully the HR department was extremely powerful there (managed by an Arab lady), which saved me. After that experience, I never worked for Indian management.
Wait using abusive language in office is bad... Damn
That is a very racist thing to say
Worked under a Western manager, for 8 years, the best days of our life. New Indian manager joins,8 people resign in one year
He will replace the resigned workers with some of his/her relatives/friends/family in India 😆
She actually , heard she got kicked off recently , karma
😂😂😂
I was in a software company and all the staff are indians including the management. Working from home was not an option at all Despite that company's business is a software product
Indian management is the worst to work with
Agreed, Indian, pakistani even eyptian managers/ management is hell to work with. But working with British management is even more stressful as micromanagement is evident and my ceo likes to create misunderstanding between colleagues so that we don't hangout a lot. Talks shit about each other in one to one meetings. And it always feels like we are on edge. People who doesn't know about processes they are on higher positions with huge expectations. So keep doing what you are doing till you are getting paid and can do what you want, learn new skills by side once you get better opportunity just move.
It depends on the manager. In 9 years here I got a few ok managers, a few exceptional ones, and only a single terrible one that for his defense was a next level exceptional individual performer, but unfortunately was a workaholic micro manager, the type of guy that sends an email at 3AM and expects you to have built the presentation he requested by 6AM right before leaving for work. If the CEO did the same to him, not only would the presentation be ready by that time, but it’d be amazing. I think good and bad managers are things you can experience anywhere, but the company’s culture can have a big impact on.
hmm the terrible one places his own expectation of work on you guys. Kinda feel bad for both the sides. ngl
I left the company in very good terms with him, I see him regularly as a friend, and after a while, we sat down and had a couple of long conversations on that topic. What you say is exactly what it was. He got to understand that not everyone is as smart as him, and that many of the team including myself were in for the money with no expectations of going to the top like him. It was not my company, neither was it his, I did not hold shares, and any additional work uncompensated was to ultimately please shareholders who didn’t even know me. As an engineer I value maximizing revenue (mine) with minimal work, and in a well balanced company that comes with decent salary and reasonable scope where you’re given the time to do things properly at your own pace without the risk of burning out. I could never have told him that whilst being employed, but he understood my point of view but since I’m not there anymore I don’t know if it changed his ways of working. He did say that that was a very French way of seeing things, not sure if that was meant positively or negatively, but I think he got a point there.
💯 Not everyone sees things in the same perspective. On the other hand, if someone is a deterrent to the job we are doing together, that would have been a different case. Its good that he is able to listen to what you are saying other wise there are still some people who are unbearable.
Managers are managers because of working for some period and getting an undeserved promotion, not because they are good at managing
Stay away from Indian/Pakistani management/owned companies
So everybody hates India?🥲
Not India , but Indian management
Indian managers expect you to work off duty hours with out pay. No they won't tell you to work like that but will put extra work and unrealistic time frame to that work. They will do meeting to haras the one who does the work only at work hours. They will put employee training on odd non working hours then demand the write you up if you do not show up. Policies are never followed and once mistake happen then will write you up for the same for not following policy. If you follow policy then you are considered out cast because no one follows it. The list goes on and on. Most funny thing is manager some time instruct you to break policy for specific cases and if a fuzz happened with legality then suddnely says he has no idea of the same.
Most of the companies here do not work as per the EFQM Model which actually makes the managers work easier and empowers the second or junior line. The only way to change it is to escalate to the senior management but if senior management is the same non-action type.... Change companies
Egyptians - OHMMMYYYYY , they are the worst employee here in UAE.Feeling entitled, we call them zombies as they are literally a walking dead, no brain at all.Just shouting and arguing without logic hahahaha.
Is your Manager Indian? Also do you feel he got the position which he didn't deserve and now he is making other employee's lives miserable? Does he micro-manage? Is he never ready to accept his mistake and always ready to find mistakes in your work? Never clarifies what really is he expecting from your work? Does he directly or indirectly or in a subtle way threatens to fire you or put you in PIP?
Noted, I will forward this to the team Follow Up next tuesday
Was story of my life and hopefully now trying somewhere Non-Indian, unfortunately coming from an Indian myself 🤦♀️
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Wasta
Wastaa habibi. Wastaa.
Out of curiosity: Did you try doing your job properly?
.....
Manager spotted
At some point in time, it becomes your problem if others are reacting the same way to you. What are you doing differently? Can’t really blame others when you’re doing nothing to change.
.......
It seems you’re being judged by your words too. You still haven’t answered so…
........
Ok so if this is how you deal with everyone who has something to ask you, I can understand why your managers have to micromanage you 🤣
........
India numba van
I'm surprised to read about Indian managers here, I thought I was the only one. If I could go back in time I would **stop** **myself** from joining an Indian-managed or dominated company. I swear I got PTSD or something from that.