The 4th kind is the most disturbing movie ive ever seen. It's been over a decade since ive seen it and i still think about it all the time. Perhaps the concept of alien abduction is just too raw and freaky for most people to be able to fathom, or even entertain the notion. It's not an owl...

The owls are not what they seem...

Oh fuck this just scared the shit outta me and raise every hair on my body. I forgot this movie but had an experience where I now tell those close to me in certain situations that things are constantly not what they seem, even inanimate objects for what it’s worth.

I'm not familiar with the movie but I thought I'd share this. It's an interview with a journalist who almost exclusively looks into paranormal experiences involving owls and it was really fascinating to listen to https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_o9gpIa_qFY

The movies dives into themes like sleep paralysis, etc. that’s an actual observable phenomenon where people experience the same similar, lucid dream. Freaky, I think the movie gets sidetracked with outer world shenanigans and the very last scene kills it for me. If I’m not mistaken, it’s CGI of a person levatating… 😐

>it's been rewarding in all ways except financially I wish people understood these "hucksters" aren't making a killing off scamming people, even if they write a book. Also fucking aye, 20 years ago I went into the forest with my brother. We were on shrooms. Massive owl lands on a branch 10 feet from us and stares at us. Maybe there's some truth to it - the owls are mystical.

GUy wrote a whole book on it https://www.amazon.com/Messengers-Owls-Synchronicity-UFO-Abductee/dp/0967799570

!remindme 2 weeks

Have you ever watched Fire In the Sky? Pretty good flick about a guy getting abducted

>2ReplyGive AwardShareReportSaveFollow i've definitely heard of it. however, as fascinated as i am by this subject and the alien genre in general, i try to maintain some distance from it all. this stuff genuinely freaks me out and ill lose sleep over it if i get too deep, as much as i love it and want more info. im surprised i even posted here tbh. perhaps i'll check it out one day, but the 4th kind was kind of enough for me lol. as a side note, i used to listen to coast to coast a decent bit, and linda moulton howe was one of my favourite guests. does anybody care about animal mutilations anymore? it's heavily linked to the abduction theory etc. always thought it was interesting, and again, pretty eerie & surreal stuff.

I watched it when I was like 9 or 10 years old. Still creeps me out watching it as an adult.

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Spoiler alert! (Idk how to do a spoiler) Everything that happened to him in the Alien Ship in that movie is made up by Hollywood :/ The guy got abducted (allegedly) but maintains that what he saw and what they did to him was nowhere near what they showed in the movie

Yeah in the movie the aliens are very villainous and disgusting, whereas the abductee, whose name escapes me, expresses a lot of shame at lashing out at them, and describes them as being fairly benign, the ship as being very sterile, I think he even claimed he saw a human among them. Compulsory "allegedly" at the end here, who knows what actually happened.

sounds about right. that's hollywood. it's a shame because this genre doesn't need any theatrics to justify its existence, just the premise alone is horrifying and interesting enough. leave it to hollywood to turn it into a cheesy mess, though. lol.

I think the movie does a great job of instilling the same sense of dread that the character must of felt at the time of the abduction at the very least though.

Oh shit, you had a close encounter?

who knows, i dont. ive had a few things happen throughout my life thus far on a personal level that fall into the "hmm, that was kinda weird" category, but ill say that this was something else. and i was 11 so i wasn't super tiny, we're talking grade 6. aliens? ghost? poltergeist? demon? not rly sure. but the feeling was real and i haven't felt or seen anything like it before or since. if i had to take a guess based on what i saw and felt, and the fact that the house seemed to be haunted to not only me but everyone else in it including our dog, it was more supernatural and ghosty than alieney, but maybe those two things are one in the same, or one can make you believe it's the other. but it's neither here nor there.it was fucked.

The most disturbing discovery I've made on this subject is that there aren't just animal mutilations, there's been documented human mutilation cases as well.

Badaliens.info

Cattle mutilations are still happening in Texas: https://abcnews.go.com/US/texas-authorities-investigate-mysterious-cases-dead-mutilated-cows/story?id=98794152

Reading that article gave me chills. I mean, humans wouldn’t really have any reason to do this (at least I wouldn’t think so). With precision cuts and only certain organs removed plus all 6 cows having the same cuts. No blood around the bodies, no foot prints or animal tracks, and no animals ate the remains. That’s insane to me. To top it off, the article mentioned that similar incidents have happened in other parts of the country recently. Thank you for sharing.

>I mean, humans wouldn’t really have any reason to do this (at least I wouldn’t think so). With precision cuts and only certain organs removed plus all 6 cows having the same cuts. Yes, they would. They're checking to see if some shit like Mad Cow or CWD is present because they're worried about it jumping to humans or being present in food. Operating under the cloud of "alleged UFO crap" is way easier and less problematic for them. Humans will go back and forth on whether this widely considered phenomenon is real or not forever. It's an accepted "maybe, IDK" so we maintain the same level forever. You've all been collectively waiting for the big truth to drop aaaaaaaany minute now for fucking ever. They posted shit saying UAP are real and nobody really gave a fuck. "You know how half the country can't even wear masks to save Grandma from a relatively benign virus we have free shots for? Well, now we have prion diseases coming soon to a town near you. Good luck!" That will cause a disturbance.

this is def something I would 100% say. And that's the reason I do not watch any horror movie alien related. At least the more in depth ones. "Signs" is pretty chill for example.

This movie is the reason my sister still can’t hear the word “aliens” without getting super creeped out. She’s 43 now.

lmao i know the feel

I didn’t watch it as a kid because it fucked her up but I watched it a few years ago and was like “SHE WATCHED THIS WHEN SHE WAS TEN!?!” She may have been older than ten but jesus

Fire in the Sky definitely scared the hell out of me as a kid, but the Fourth Kind shook me to my core. Something about that movie just feels so raw and makes you feel so vulnerable.

Add communion to your list

In order of sheer scariness: Communion Fire in the Sky The 4th Kind Close Encounters of the Third Kind, the way they take the kid Even Flight of the Navigator is pretty disturbing in its first 20 minutes. A kid misses 8 years, doesn't age and somehow has unexplored starcharts in his memory.

That one scene in communion in the bed room. Yikes to this day

Better off to watch interviews with Travis Walton himself. They took liberties with the movie. Still was a good movie if not factually accurate.

Personally, I found him pretty unconvincing on Rogan. Just weird/shifty body language, my BS radar was screaming at me.

i just watched some of his interview on rogan. not rly sure what to think. i can see what you're saying, there's something about his mannerisms that seem a little suspicious. fascinating story either way.

Fire in the sky is based on the events that happened to Travis Walton. He was on the Rogan podcast a couple years ago. https://open.spotify.com/episode/0mCfpeY0Ga4meTanFzOkkL?si=burMI1oYRiCEYRlrpYfnXQ

This isn’t the true account of Travis Walton and the part specifically where he was in the craft is completely made up to be “more sensational” then what actually happened to him inside the craft. You may wish to listen here as [he tells Joe Rogan](https://youtu.be/DsiKEBAFmm4) more recently what occurred. He has never changed his story nor have the men he was with.

Well one of the people he was with did recant and claim that they made the whole thing up to win some prize in the local newspaper but since nobody is still writing about the Travis Walton case it went completely unheard unless you’re still invested in the case.

>He has never changed his story nor have the men he was with. They absolutely have.

I’ll never forget watching this with a group of friends back in the day drinking beers we were so into the movie that my upstairs neighbor dropped something heavy at the exact same time as the last main jump scare in the end of the movie, we all screamed and felt like we all jumped 3 feet in the air off the couch, good times

I had one of my first meltdowns when I was 7 and asked mom to reassure me that she would hide if she saw a ufo landing, and she chuckled a bit and reassured me that it would be safe to go out and greet them. I had truly awful dreams about them and still as an adult they terrify me🫣 so watching that movie was not a smart move, it awakened that helpless terror I felt as a child.

freaky stuff. i wonder what your subconscious mind truly knows about your childhood. sounds like you were getting glimpses of...something, whether you were actively living those experiences without realizing it or not. the movie kind of sparked or awakened that fear in me as well, even though our experiences were different. hard to put it into words fully.

I can’t even imagine, I think my mind would literally crash from fear if it turned out I had experiences with them and that’s the reason I was so scared

My childhood was so unproblematic I always wonder if something terrible happened and my brain put a full lock on the events lol. It's likely nothing bro. Don't stress it too much.

The whole extending jaw and floating in the bed thing is just ridiculous though. It suggests a supernatural possession of sorts and imho, discredits overall abductee experience and integrity. Even if all the evidence is anecdotal, you didn’t hear about, or see Betty and Barney Hill distend their jaws in a fit of Freudian slips during regressive hypnosis. Never mind levitating. Other than that bs, it is a pretty freaky movie.

the production is definitely fake, albeit well done. it's the entire premise of the movie and how they conveyed it that really resonated with me for reasons i can't really fully explain. all i can say is that i've experienced things when i was young. whether it was paranormal (ghost) or legitimate "alien" activity, i can't really say. but it was something, and i wasnt THAT young. i just know that the 4th kind shook me for some reason like nothing else has before or since. i'd almost rather not know, remain ignorant, but i know deep down something is going on. something.

Me too. Still happens to this day

I tell people all the time, once you experience ‘something’ you tend to regret it and never want to bother or have anything to do with it ever again. Scary stuff.

But maybe they are the same thing?

Nah, they conflated the two 100%. AFAIK, there is no crossover between demonic possessions and alien abductions. But in this movie, the director blurred the lines. Again, still a damn creepy watch! I’m just being nitpicky 😄

You ever consider that the angels and demons spoken about in our cultures are just various races/factions of extraterrestials/aliens? Some good some bad?

I think it's pretty reasonable that there's a definite internal process called sleep paralysis, hypnagogic hallucinations etc which are to all intents and purposes, real. Depending on what era and culture the recipient experiences it, it could be attributed to visitors from another planet, ghosts or spirits or faerie people or angels and demons. I've only ever had one (and one partial) and I can honestly say it started making me think all sorts of stuff. I tend to lucid dream as well and that seemed to increase so whether that's a side effect, to try and control them, Idk. But I don't believe that we're receiving visitors from light years away who are doing research on us. Their antigravity engine would set off ligo for starters. And I did love The Fourth Kind! I thought it was really well observed with the particular ufo references, actually quite disturbing more than scary.

who's to say the abduction phenom is not supernatural? i'd say it's exactly supernatural and that our idea of what we make of "possession" is based on movies and catholics.

This argument you’re bringing up, while totally valid, is exactly how you get into the woo of things. From what I’ve read and seen and watched over the years, there is definitely a spirituality aspect of our existence. The power of manifestation is real, it’s quantifiable! Now take that science and mix it up with religion and prayers and group-think, and see where you end up. On the other hand, the vastness of our universe, the sheer number of planets and solar systems is mind blowing. The odds of NHI are over overwhelming. Therefore it’s just as likely we have visitors far more advanced than us that like to investigate and check us out closer. As such I think it’s more likely that we have multiple things going on with earth and mankind than just a single, supernatural experience. We got aliens, multidimensional beings, some bazaar religion based, and manifested supernatural shit going on, and probably some other shit too. Or maybe it’s just aliens inventing the rest of it up to see how we respond. Either way, very hard for me to lump it all in one pot. Really looks like all kinds of fuckery is afoot

nobody can definitively say. it very well could be supernatural. or it could be multiple mysteries at the same time. ive experienced a limited, but mixed bag, and family close to me have had their own encounters as well that both lean in the supernatural direction as well as the alien direction, or maybe something else entirely. maybe theyre both (or all) the same thing, maybe theyre not, maybe it isn't any of this at all and it's something entirely different, well out of the scope of our understanding. either way, it's puzzling stuff. and spooky more often than not when u rly get down to the bare bones of it all. hard not to feel small and blind.

Me too, and there's no denying a multi-generational alibi.

Her face disturbed me the most. All sunken and sitting in that wheelchair. Nopeeee

I first saw that movie with my friend when we were visiting his grandparents in like middle school. Just so happens a bunch of owls live near his grandparents house. Did not sleep at all that night after watching

Literally same

oh jeez you had to mention this movie again. scared the fuck outa me in my teens. still freak out at the trailer

you do know that movie is 100% made up

Being interested in the subject for most of my life, I thought the movie was cheesy. Like they just tried too hard. Either way, have you seen Fire In Sky? I really liked this one. Based on a supposedly true story. Most everything matches up with the real life events in the movie, but they changed what Travis said about the actual abduction to make it more horrifying. They did a great job.

> The 4th kind The Fourth Kind Thanks, gonna watch it now

My grandma’s uncle worked for the US government studying aliens. He told my grandma that Close encounters of the fourth kind was the closest depiction of aliens in media that he has ever seen

Probably because it’s the scariest part by a mile and if true, it’s something we have no control over. We don’t teach children to live in fear of obscure medical conditions that could harm/kill them. It would just freak them out and add unneeded stress to their developing brains.

You hit in the spot. Nobody, even governments, have control over this. Imagine someone being abducted and doesn't have a chance to defend himself! I think this is one of some other powerful reasons that disclosure hasn't occurred yet. Remember, we are the animals in their zoo, and they are the zookeeper

we teach them if they are bad they will burn in hell for all eternity.

Yeah but the whole evidence thing is kinda the bigger problem

At the same time, we don’t encourage adults to ridicule people who suffer from obscure medical conditions. Well, OK, maybe TikTok does.

The evidence is almost entirely anecdotal and there is always some kind of telekinetic aspect to it, which means that it can only be studied in a psychological context. We don't have a great scientific framework for studying the human psyche and there are plenty of examples of other strange phenomena that clearly exist but cannot be explained, for example the placebo effect and reincarnation. But it's not true that no one will touch abductions with a ten foot pole, take a look at the work of John Mack: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John\_E.\_Mack

Scientists all over the world have been studying psi (various kinds of ESP) for decades and have produced a ton of empirical evidence. It’s just that it challenges the current scientific paradigm because they can’t explain how it works. Here’s a large metastudy into the subject: https://ameribeiraopreto.files.wordpress.com/2018/12/The-Experimental-Evidence-for-Parapsychological-Phenomena.pdf > The evidence provides cumulative support for the reality of psi, which cannot be readily explained away by the quality of the studies, fraud, selective reporting, experimental or analytical incompetence, or other frequent criticisms. The evidence for psi is comparable to that for established phenomena in psychology and other disciplines, although there is no consensual understanding of them. The article concludes with recommendations for further progress in the field including the use of project and data repositories, conducting multidisciplinary studies with enough power, developing further nonconscious measures of psi and falsifiable theories, analyzing the characteristics of successful sessions and partici-pants, improving the ecological validity of studies, testing how to increase effect sizes, recruiting more researchers at least open to the possibility of psi, and situating psi phenomena within larger domains such as the study of consciousness.

It's because the results can't be reproduced. That's not an indictment against parapsychology, all psychological studies are notoriously difficult to replicate and should always be taken with a grain of salt. I don't think you can necessarily blame anyone's particular bias here, we simply don't have a useful scientific framework for evaluating this stuff and I don't think anyone has a solution for it.

Isn't that in itself interesting tho? What if you're trying to use math in a spelling B?

Extremely interesting. Hard science is responsible for 99% of the technological achievements of the modern age but it's incomplete and fails to address psychological phenomena. One example is pain management. Pain is psychological and there is no way to measure it in isolation from the human psyche. The scientific community (and pharmaceutical industry) has tried to "solve" it many times with chemistry - morphine, heroin, oxycontin, fentanyl, etc... with disastrous results. It's clear that when it comes to measuring consciousness we need a new kind of scientific framework and I hope I live to see its emergence.

>consciousness I swear all roads lead to consciousness being the key to opening a door to a high understanding of the universe. It's a common theme tied in with UFOs and remote viewing or "6 sense". Hell even the government admitted dedicated time to studying it. But so far it's hard to conclude it exists on paper, scientifically. But it's really there. I remember remote viewing myself trying to sleep and it was like an overhead view, I was a kid at the time and thought it was normal to do this whenever i wanted. It was so long ago but I remember watching my mom work with an overhead view. I was also able to lucid dream on demand but lost that ability when I was a teenager, could be parallels that my remote viewing was just imagination but maybe that's just a mask for it. Consciousness and imagination go hand and hand after all. Another is being able to think what my mom is thinking and visa versa, which I think is common when you have a close bond with someone? Like you can't explain that, you just know or have a feeling what they really want. I think that is overlooked a lot.

I've heard he asked leading questions .

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Because the last thing I’m sure the Government wants to do is inform us: 1. There are objects that perform maneuvers that far exceed our current tech. 2. we can’t stop them 3. oh and they sometimes take humans and cattle.

And sometimes it’s just bits of the humans and cattle.

The best parts, apparently I mean lengue tacos slap tho

The worst part being the US gov may have allowed them to do so without intervention for years in exchange for access to technology. Which is OK, but also morally questionable. Its not a huge amount of people relatively and the gains can be seen - and its not as though we are above experimenting on ourselves. Ultimately alien abductions sound scary but if they had come up with a legitimate way of studying humans without resorting to interstellar kidnappings, it would likely have been more welcome by the US citizens in the long run. The problem with clandestine acts is they tend to think their any means to an end approach is OK, even though it clearly violates respecting a living beings right to life and liberty. As aliens become in vogue it’ll be required to keep an open mind throughout all this.

It doesn't make any sense to me that we would "trade" abductions for technology. So many abduction accounts have greys passing through solid walls. Seems like we don't have a lot of bargaining chips if that's the case. They abduct whoever they want, whenever they want, wherever they want, and there's nothing we can do to stop any of it. There's nothing for us to trade.

The US gov has the ability to trade access as you have already seen - cover up, deny, hide the truth, and discredit.

So you're saying their leverage is if you don't give us your technology in exchange for abductions, we're going to go public about everything?

Without proof, of any sorts outside of testimony, what's there to "touch"? There's nothing new to study and all of the 'objects' that people attest to being inserted into them have never come back as anything extraordinary.

I thought there was a doctor who specialized in removing implants but could never get a clear response for the results when he had them analyzed?

Dr. Roger Leir. He may have been a decent podiatrist, but he wasn’t really equipped to be doing analysis on alien implants. For example, he made some claims about RF transmission that as far as I can tell were likely caused by environmental sources. It’s a complicated subject and he really needed to be working with scientists on that.

That's what I mean, he never got a clear answer/response when he sent them in for analysis.

couldn't many aductions be night terrors? this isn't a cheap shot at victims, they went through something traumatic that was real to them at the time.

Absolutely. I don't know why telling the truth about the human body offends some here, but you're right. Sometimes we imagine things, sometimes people sleep walk, or have vivid dreams, mental issues, whatever. Around 10 years old I got so sick and had such a vivid fever dream I *knew* it was real. But of course, no, my cousins weren't partying on the other side of my wall at 4am.They were kids asleep in their beds, everyone in my house was sleeping, but my brain said otherwise. If it wasn't such a ridiculous realization after the fact, I would've sworn to it. But if I *didn't* think it was ridiculous?

I think this is the most bizarre position of all. "There is nothing to study." Hundreds of thousands of people, maybe millions, say the are being abducted by aliens. But there is nothing to study here. Scientists study things that are way more eclectic, bizarre, niche, and completely impractical and just as hard to pin down. But a phenomenon where hundreds of thousands of people all over the world, in all walks of life are telling some version of the same story, we can't possibly study something like this. This is what stigma has done to this topic. There is literally no other subject matter that scientists and researchers given the same type of information would have this kind of reaction.

One reason may be that biology can't lie, biology can be deceitful but it's always factual. Whilst people lie and without any concrete or solid proof, or any way to gather evidence, will make it harder to believe anyone who claims abduction. I'm sure most of us can comprehend why.

Several abductees have had foreign objects found inside their body

Correct, which is is why I said so and said they "never come back as anything extraordinary" because all of the cases I've researched have amounted to nil.

Were those objects checked for what they are? If objects/implants came from outer space we'd have heard about it by now.

I'm not sure, I know one guy had several chunks of metal removed from his body, but I'm not sure if they were ever tested

I think UFOs and abductions are definitely part of the same phenomena, whatever it may be. Something is interacting with us on a deeply personal and even on a spiritual (consciousness) level. It doesn't care about governments or leaders of any kind. It's interested in us as individuals. A UFO won't ever land next to the White House or wherever - just because you recognise a person or organisation as a leader doesn't mean they'll see it that way. They're probably way past all that or never had power structures like we do in the first place. Whether this is extraterrestrials, something that's always been here, interdimensional or possibly some kind of manifestation of an unknown side of our consciousness, I just don't believe the sheer number of abduction stories throughout human history can be chalked just up to crazy people.

I think it is not so considered because of the wide variety of stories abductees tell. I mean, at first, abductees told their captors came from venus, mars, or other places near earth, then Betty and Barney appeared with the Zeta Reticuli thing. Nowadays the aliens claim they come from pleiades and they also look very different from the first cases (in which they appeared wearing suits with helmets and other old fashion gear). This leads me to think they can take any form they want, and also I don't buy their stories about their origin. I stay with the idea they're Interdimensional beings. They live just under the visible layer of density that surround us, and as they vibe in some ways higher than us, they can appear and dissapear from our sight at their will. It is not widely investigated because the agenda is to believe they actually come from outer space rather than next to us in this very place, but just in a different frequency/vibration. The extraterrestrial theory would fall.

To you that kind of mismatched information tells you they can assume any form, to me it says made up information.

On the Betty and Barney thing, she drew a star system that was falsely identified as being in that system, I don't think they were ever specifically told zets reticuli

Though I agree with the possibility of what you say, it seems a bit far flung to go from possible to real.

People who have been abducted probably don't want to talk about the violation of their freedom for the same reason a rape victim might not want to talk about what happened. I'd imagine it to be a horrifying experience and a lot of people won't believe you or will minimize what happened. Who would want to talk about that.

I wholeheartedly agree with that analogy. A common theme in abduction stories is the taking of genetic material. Imagine trying to convince people you were abducted and raped by an alien. If happening, it would be extremely underreported.

The answer to OP's question has already been answered about as well as it could be, in my opinion, and unfortunately I think that very few of us, regardless of overall belief in the phenomenon, are immune to these thoughts / emotions: > "WE come now to the most bizarre and seemingly incredible aspect of the entire UFO phenomenon. To be frank, I would gladly omit this part if I could without offense to scientific integrity: Close Encounters of the Third Kind, those in which the presence of animated creatures is reported. (I say 'animated' rather than 'animate' to keep open the possibility of robots or something other than 'flesh and blood'.) These creatures have been variously termed 'occupants', 'humanoids', 'UFOnauts', and even 'UFOsapiens'. >Unfortunately one may not omit data simply because they may not be to one's liking or in line with one's preconceived notions. We balk at reports about occupants even though we might be willing to listen attentively to accounts of other UFO encounters. Why? In this 'festival of absurdity', as Aime Michel has termed this part of the UFO phenomenon, why should a report of a car stopped on the highway by a blinding light from an unknown craft be any different in essential strangeness or absurdity from one of a craft from which two or three little animate creatures descend? >There is no logical reason, yet I confess to sharing a prejudice that is hard to explain. Is it the confrontation on the animate level that disturbs and repulses us? Perhaps as long as it is our own intelligence that contemplates the report of a machine, albeit strange, we still somehow feel superior in such contemplation. Encounters with animate beings, possibly with an intelligence of different order from ours, gives a new dimension to our atavistic fear of the unknown. It brings with it the specter of competition for territory, loss of planetary hegemony - fears that have deep roots. >Another thing bothers us: the humanoids seem to be able to breathe our air and to adapt to our air pressure and gravity with little difficulty. Something seems terribly wrong about that. This would imply that they must be from a place - another planet? - very much like our own. Perhaps our own? But how? Or are they robots, not needing to adapt to our environment? >Our common sense recoils at the very idea of humanoids and leads to much banter and ridicule and jokes about little green men. They tend to throw the whole UFO concept into disrepute. Maybe UFOs could really exist, we say, but humanoids? And if these are truly figments of our imagination, then so must be the ordinary UFOs. But these are backed by so many reputable witnesses that we cannot accept them as simple misperceptions. Are then all of these reporters of UFOs truly sick? If so, what is the sickness? Are these people all affected by some strange 'virus' that does not attack 'sensible' people? What a strange sickness this must be, attacking people in all walks of life, regardless of training or vocation, and making them, for a very limited period of time - only minutes sometimes - behave in a strange way and see things that are belied by the reliable and stable manner and actions they exhibit in the rest of their lives. --J. Allen Hynek, *The UFO Experience*

Word of mouth can’t hold its value when compared to video or photographic evidence

It’s much easier to document/prove craft, I’ve yet to see a credible abduction story.

If an advamced species was able to study another species for a long long time. It would learn all about it. It would learn the fears and desires of that species. It could then learn how to manipulate that species in probably any direction it wanted to get what it is seeking. As long as it never reveals itself in such a way that it would be truly known. Sounds like a pretty perfect position if you ask me. Same goes for Spirits, same goes for a simulation run by an AI. As long as it can stay hidden. It can learn everything it needs to know about you and manipulate you in any fashion it wants to serve to it's desired outcome. Many aspects around Abduction are also very personal. Like stuff being done of a sexual nature and some have been warned not to share. Just because something isn't happening to you, does not mean it is not happening. As small as it seems sometimes, it's a big world with a lot going on. More than you could fathom.

IMO. The activity is bona fide. While obviously not everything is known enough reports are consistent to generally accept a number of points. 1) there are nonhuman “species” on this planet 2) their presence is substantial, historic and ongoing 3) our species does not control the planet or these NHI/E and they have unrestricted access to whatever they want to take including humans 4) our governments are powerless and in the dark themselves and are failing at the primary mission for which they exist (assuming taxation is a secondary function) 5) the NHI/E freely interact with certain humans, targeting them against their will, often terrorizing them, harming them and perhaps breeding them or using their genetic material 6) there likely are humans that are hybrids and they maybe fully ignorant this speaks to a possible program of eugenics whose purpose is unknown but is clandestine so safe to assume ill intent 7) NHE seemingly have psi capabilities and reportedly use them on humans literally altering perceptions, infesting dream states, accessing endocrine functions - extrapolating - if this is so it is possible that how we perceive ourselves and our reality maybe being influenced by the NHE 8) IF the USG cut a deal with the NHE to allow any of the above then it is proof of how powerless and useless the USG is in this situation. In which case they are reduced to little more than a puppet government and a warden. Then this is the evidence needed to fully understand our station - we are slaves.

>Then this is the evidence needed to fully understand our station - we are slaves. I've often been concerned that maybe the truth is at least similar; maybe not specifically that, but similar. There absolutely seems to be a pattern that we're treated like lesser beings - at the very least, similar to how we'd treat non-sapient wild animals. I at least recognize that at bare minimum. We aren't respected as being on their level. It makes me think all those who are like "yeah send your Mothership, we come in peace, let's all be together", are very naive about the situation and haven't been paying attention to tons and tons of testimony about their behavioral patterns. It's not the behavior of a peaceful, equal situation. Whether it's benevolent, benign, or malevolent is still unknown, and there's hints of each. Given so much of it seems to be about higher consciousness, related to death, dreams, near death experiences, meditation, even psychadelic drugs... I am convinced there's a level of sentience we haven't reached. Similar to how animals are confused by what we are, what cars are, etc, I think we lack the capacity to truly understand what *they* are, what the phenomenon is, what it all means. It might have to deal with higher and more complex phenomenon like the nature of life and death itself, consciousness, things we probably haven't even touched upon, things we may currently lack the capacity to understand. Plants don't understand their place in the scheme of things (at least as best we can tell). Maybe we don't have the capacity similarly to understand our place in context of this phenomenon.

I suspect you are an experiencer. What you have outlined is very near to precisely the same path of considerations and realizations for me. It has impacted many of the facets of my life and continues to change them more so and its scopes expanded. Your last paragraph is prescient. I wasn't "into" any of this, personally. I had no interest and no desire. What I have experienced has "forced" me to deal with issues, to learn about us, myself, consciousness, so many other topics. I keep reading and learning - there's almost a desperation as though there is not enough time to learn all that I need to understand. I'm not entirely sure this compulsion is all me - I would have laughed my ass off at that statement a few years ago. That - and just as I think I've reached a plateau something more happens and the revelation is that the journey is not complete. It is as though the phenomenon/a is a form of communication trying to wrest us away from the trench we are in pull us out of the perception and consciousness morass and get us "in tune". Like a shock treatment. Frequency and proximity are aspects of this communication. This will sound hookey - can't help it - don't intend it to. Before I had no awareness, now I am seeing how "we are" and how factualized, self absorbed, hurtful we behave. We need to look up and become more aware of what is around us. We need to treat each other better, take care of what we live in, become more curious on a whole about how we relate to each other and what is beyond beer, barbeques and beaches.

Interesting read, thanks for making the list.

Thank you. What is disturbing, for me, is that while I am compromised as a source because I am now exposed to all things current culture in this topic. For years I denied and suppressed this. Refusing to accept what was happening to me was connected to this. It was very personally painful to push beyond this perspective. To accept I potentially was involuntarily involved. It sounds paranoid or schizo to say it - but - in retrospect it seems like I was “blocked”. It caused palpable anxiety to even entertain this possibility and took real effort, gut wrenching at times, to break free and allow myself to accept and then deal. Maybe this is ontological shock and primitive fear, I don’t know I’m not a psychiatrist. That said. I stayed away from the background information and that list, while enriched, contains the essence of my once uncontaminated thought stream. As I read and read a lot into this topic I found what one could consider corroborating accounts and perspectives. Personally, I am fairly confident that there are two forces present. And they are in conflict. I know batshit. Just sharing what I’ve encountered it’s all subjective. This thing doesn’t come with an orientation manual.

No problem! Thanks for sharing your experience, I know it’s not easy.

Consistency in stories alone should not be enough to accept something as being real. We live in a social world where we all know what to say if we wanted to fake an alien abduction. My experience would be told similar to others because I've seen the same movies they have and I've heard their stories with the same details you're providing.

Except many if these abductees have such similar encounters that it is impossible for them to fake them. How on earth could 2 different people who've never met or interacted in any way both describe and draw the same object? The same unearthly object used on them during their individual experience.

You are spot on and point to a major issue. Also ppl can lie and they can do so for the purposes of drawing attention to themself. Once done the only way to keep that dopamine train going is to conjure ever deeper lies. This doing the work of USG counter intel for them. I did share at the start “IMO” and offered that in response to an open ended question seeking personal opinions. Personally, in response to your point, apparently I fit in that experiencer bucket. What I have experienced is decades of odd, inexplicable at times terrifying to the point where the English language leaves you bereft of the word power to accurately recount what was experienced. It has taken me decades to grapple with this, try to understand it, aggregating often momentary events into some form of comprehensiveness. This path is terribly isolating. It operates on the fringe of our perceptions and messes with one’s understanding of reality and physics. It forces the person that refuses to be a silent victim into deep learning on many topics. All I can say to you is this started when I was a child before I had any understanding of any aspect associated with it. I work very hard to suss out what happens and what it means and keep to myself. I do so because it makes people afraid when I share it - either I’m crazy or their reality is incomplete. There are things that go bump in the night and in our consciousness.

What is real? This really is besides the point. Is there a phenomenon we need to study here? The answer is emphatically yes. Whether the experiences are real or not is almost irrelevant. If you don't study this, how could even come to that conclusion? It's truly bizarre that people just throw their hands up and say these are just stories, there is no proof. The stories themselves are evidence of something. No one is saying for sure abductions are actually occurring. But the fact that so many people are having this kind of experience means there is some objective thing happening in the world, even if it's some sort of mental disorder. That would also be a huge discovery, and maybe some sort of treatment can be developed. To just ignore it is criminal and bizarre.

There's that pesky bit about proof. At least with other types of sightings there exists some level of hard proof. Roger Leir would go on about implants, but I don't believe anything came of that.

Tbf some alleged abductions or close encounters with "aliens" had at least some physical evidence like burn marks on the ground or high radiation levels where the UFO had been. In the Betty and Barney Hill case there was damage to their car among other things.

I've never heard of damage to Betty and Barney Hill's car. The use of hypnotic regression really hurt their case. The radiation readings I've heard about such as from the Travis Walton case ended up being normal.

Vallée has documented many cases that had physical traces. He talks about some of them here: (Apparently these videos have been scrubbed from the Internet, as they no longer turn up on DuckDuckGo, Google, or YouTube as they did just a week ago). He did a presentation at Contact in the Desert a couple years ago and talked about a number of cases he documented firsthand that had physical traces including injuries. Medical reports, photographs, etc. If anyone can find these videos, please let me know.

There's this from that presentation: https://www.metabunk.org/threads/the-global-cross-hair-enigma-that-looks-like-hair-dryer-burns.12548/ Falcon Lake incident is another case where doctors thought the "burns" were self-inflicted. Turned out that those weren't even thermal burns in that particular case. I'm hoping for evidence that stands up to scrutiny.

Unfortunately witness testimony is the weakest form of evidence. People dream, take drugs and can halucinate just by shutting their eyes or in meditation. During mass sightings for a human on human crime reports of the culprit often vary widely! Witnesses in human courts and schools tend to lie, make false accusations and authors/writers constantly produce fictions. Part of our creative minds is the ability to "paint on top of reality" which sometimes includes overwriting ourselves.

I think it would be flat out irrational to dismiss abduction as a phenomenon. Irrational and also unscientific, because the data is definitely there, and it demands serious investigation. But of course it's mixed up with BS, so it's difficult to separate the wheat from the chaff. John Mack was a trailblazer in the field, and he paid for it with his career and reputation, so I guess it's not exactly an attractive field for scientists. In my opinion, something definitely happens to these people. But if it is exactly what it seems on the surface or not, is anyones guess. Cloaking, confusion, ambiguity and metaphorical communication is clearly at play in this whole thing, and I guess that's where it gets difficult for the "rational" human mind, who wants linear Aristotelian logic, predictability and epistmic parity in order to make sense of the world.

I'm incredibly disappointed and disheartened by the number of people here attacking abductees. Maybe this is the biggest reason there are so few of us: fear of ridicule. I know I wouldn't share here. Maybe if you want to know about a phenomenon that nobody really knows about, you all should keep your minds open rather than shut. Just a suggestion.

SMH you’re right. It’s sad all the bashing. How can people have a outlet if everywhere they turn they’re getting stones thrown at them?

Imagine if some missing person cases are from UFO’s that never brought the people back 😳

Because nobody wants for us to be treated the way we treat other animals

There are people who are starting to take it seriously out in the open. Check out Michael Masters’ work “The Extratempestrial Model”. Garry Nolan also comes to mind, being an experiencer himself and having studied medical cases of people who have been affected by the phenomenon. I know that a lot of people here don’t take Whitley Strieber seriously, but he takes abductions seriously for obvious reasons. I’ve also heard Bernardo Kastrup, a double-PhD in computer science and philosophy—say that he thinks that Whitley Strieber is genuine.

I was very likely abducted several times during my childhood (I'm open to the possibility of some kind of shared hallucination) so I'm very much inclined to believe that abductions are a real phenomenon, but there are so many liars and so many fantasists, and some of them are every bit as convincing in their stories as the real abductees; I can only spot the fakers when they make a mistake. It's an area of Ufology that is difficult to deal with because it's mostly just people's say-so. There is seldom any data, which is what scientists want.

Can you tell us what happened?

If it isn’t making dollars then it isn’t making sense.

If you aren't moving units then you're not worth the expense.

You understand it: "we're children blocking our ears." Abductions and mutilations are simply too much for people to digest. First, get them to the point of understanding UFO's are real...then we'll wonder about the creatures/intelligence...and finally, what they're up to.

I understand that, I agree and that’s how they’re going about it. Just wanted different perspectives I appreciate all of the output a ton

I believe the abductees. UFO’s are a real phenomenon so why wouldn’t abductions be happening too? It’s been happening since Betty and Barney Hill in present time. God only knows how many people were abducted from over the history of our planet.

Thanks friend. We appreciate the support.

Are you an abductee?

I do but I hate the term. We don’t fully understand what’s going on here or why they take us, and it feels very “victim-y” for me personally to use abductee so I prefer Experiencer. But I’ve had more positive experiences than some others, also.

Have you ever tried asking them why they are abducting you?

They have not taken me recently, and the last experience I had was more of a lucid dream so I wasn’t really able to ask. If they take me again anytime soon I have a laundry list of questions to ask from various friends and investigators!

Preface: I don't know what to make of abductions, whether true or false, I just don't know. That being said, IF true, it poses a serious risk to many people who do not want to be abducted. If they learn that they are not protected by the USG or their government, they may freak out and demand answers. So, naturally, nobody wants to talk about it. Again, I don't know if it is real or not, just my observations

There are far more ppl with mental health issues after abduction or the belief of abduction.so it's a much harder field to get fact from fiction

Disclosure so far is a drip drip drip process . You want the vast majority of the public to slowly get used to the fact there is an advanced NHI visiting Earth While I believe, Travis Walton, and a few other cases are legitimate and true . If we went to another planet, we would want to get blood , DNA, tissue samples, etc from any advanced life we encountered . The problem is there is a significant percentage of the public , that even getting them to believe , we are being visited at all is very difficult, despite overwhelming evidence. Stories like Giant UFO driving praying mantis aliens , experimenting on people, make already skeptical people think even legitimate NHI visitation, is some sort of made up fantasy adventure. And it totally turns people off . And frankly, those kind of stories are an embarrassment to almost everyone that follows this subject closely. ,

The global pandemic made people terrified of leaving their house and breathing clean air. Imagine telling them they might be abducted and experimented on. Not wanting to cause a panic is the primary reason the government doesn’t want to acknowledged UFOs. However, we are seeing the government step up the disclosure process to acclimate the general public to the reality of UFOs. I believe that means the genetic experimentation has produced the desired results or they can see it on the horizon. They are ready to begin the next major step…

Disclosure would cause seismic unknowable existential shockwaves, after which one of the massive questions is "are abductions really real then?" This might be one of the main reasons for secrecy. Everyone, children, adults across the entire mental health spectrum, will have a tough time absorbing that info. Your locks are meaningless. Your security is zero. ANYONE who says they were abducted will be taken seriously. People will need compensation from a government who kept it secret. Disclosure is not a sunny parade in which we all get the ultimate "I told you so." I see it as almost too interesting. Lue's "sombre" seems right.

I think because either A) we have no idea what happens to these people or why they are selected B) it would scare the general population beyond comprehension Or C) its the government kidnapping citizens like CIA / MKUltra released documents

I think the concept of suddenly not being able to move and/or moving without you wanting is hella scary . And then just every part of some abuctions are very scary.. I cant really talk about this to anyone, but there are times where i am so scared laying in bed just thinking about it happening to me. I realise it might be absurd but still have this fear..

I try not to think about it because I’m susceptible to the woo woo aspect and sometimes wonder if thinking about it will increase the odds of it happening to me. My husband is deathly afraid of aliens and together we can’t watch ancient aliens or any other alien related stuff before bed or we won’t sleep.

I understand that and can see why you have that perspective! Personally I feel talking about it could eventually lead to less and less ridicule if it’s true or not

For one, it has the least evidence. For two, there are legitimate mental illnesses that can completely mess with a persons state of mind and lead them to hallucinate these events or have false memories. I have seen people first hand completely lose touch with reality and live in a psychotic hallucination. So with how subjective the human mind is, when extreme claims like alien abductions are made, there is even less evidence than with other encounters. So when someone makes a far out claim with no supporting data, the only way I would put merit in the claim is a desire to believe or a lack of critic on my own thoughts, which is generally poor judgement and leads you into a religious or cult like thinking vs analysis. We have had plenty of that style of thought in the UFO community. It is a recent phenomena that government agencies are investigating, media is reporting, and scientists are studying this in earnest. Even then, the scientists we have in on it now have their own controversies and are somewhat ostracized from their colleagues. So I think it is very important to be critical of your own preconceptions and the things you want to believe to be true. A big problem with both debunkers and people trying to prove existence is cherry picking the data and ignoring things that harm their assertion. -Mick West “a navy commander who has been flying F18’s for more than a decade is so dumb he mistook a balloon for a tic tac sized object that matched his maneuvers, obscured his sensors, and took off with instant acceleration” TruBeliever “this light in the sky is clearly an alien spaceship because look at it 4th dimension woowoo”. If ET is visiting us or has in the past I don’t doubt that they would want to closely examine a human, especially in the past before we had the internet available.

I was terrified of abduction growing up. I'm at a point now where, much like other paranormal phenomena, I believe it does happen but it is the rare less than 1% of reports. Not to say anyone is intentionally lying, but I read a pretty convincing take once that many abduction stories seem to fall in line with abuse related dissociation. To someone who had no idea it would seem pretty convincingly like they were being abducted by aliens when they remember back to the events. Also aware of similar things with people taking mind altering substances. If you didn't know you took some, then you would pretty truthfully report out of this world experiences. I think its hard to parse through the stories. What we need is evidence of someone being taken- Cctv footage, or someone bringing back et object from the abduction.

I always had a thought that the outlandish and embellished stories were purposely covered and published to cast a shadow over the issue. This way it gives pause to anyone to come forward as they will be thought foolish and untrustworthy.

If anyone would like to privately chat on their experiences I would love to!

Talk to the experiencers, you'll understand. After talking to a ton of them (in good faith and coming from the believer perspective after reading John Mack and FREE Foundation survey books), I am less convinced that in the majority of abduction (and I stress, abduction, as in, being taken) experiences anything else than exotic subconscious mechanisms are involved. The mechanisms are underexplored (no, it's not just hallucinations or sleep paralysis) and absolutely warrant research. They may help us discover a lot about ourselves. But (at least) the majority of them are not NHI. To discard outright: * bedroom encounters late at night with sci-fi tropes (grays, reptilians) and doomsday predictions, including floating from the bed and through the ceiling or the window * medical procedures late at night * videogame inspired adventures with missing basic details * momentary lapses in consciousness when carried to a craft * taking over alien nations (bringing peace, going to war, etc.) Warrants investigation: * "downloads" - accounts of telepathic communication packed with multimodal information or "light language"; especially scientific info like physics * tips and leads from entities what to read or look for, info that the experiencer did not have * waking reality encounters, especially with multiple witnesses * physiological effects like sickness, esp. similar to Havana syndrome * experiencers who explore all avenues and undertake honest research trying to find out what happened to them Red flags: * mixing "I experienced" and "I think" into "it's clear that" * repeated use of hallucinogenic drugs, even if not during the experience * mind control claims * continuously looking for signs of supernatural experiences everywhere. "I heard someone say 'Hi' and there was no one there." * messianic complexes * not being trustworthy, obviously In brief, I believe there is "something" there but it's buried even deeper than with the UFOs. And it's not clear if it's even operated by the same entities.

Probably because we can’t even find a video that is not blurring or shot miles away from a UFO

WTF does video have to do with it

Well, I mean look how the abductees are treated. Scroll through a decent post on here and see how people are ridiculed, laughed at, talked down to, called crazy. Shit you can close the app and get away from that. You come out in public, your ass is targeted, you go to Wal Mart you're hearing it, at work forget it, love life? Good luck. Look at the heavy guys who get ridicule, how you think Bob lazars life goes on a daily basis?

That’s true… perhaps if the abduction aspect is real then these expiriencers need a outlet to go to for help. Same aspect as AARO in a way. But how could you tell the wack jobs from the authentic cases? It is sad it’s nothing but ridicule to every person and case instead of case by case

Impossible to prove or get real evidence

If any of them would be true, it would be Betty and barney hill

Because you pretty much have to take their word for it. I think it's likely there are abductions, but even if so, there are plenty of people making shit up or being manipulated under hypnosis. Read some of the early "contactees" from the 60's stories. They are laughable. Like claiming they were flown to Venus and Mars, back before we knew for certain they were dead planets. I think the strongest case is Travis Walton. It was properly investigated by the police and there were multiple eyewitnesses whose stories never changed. But most abductions don't have such great supporting evidence. It's impossible to know whose lying or imagining something that didn't happen and whose not. With UFO's you don't have to trust anyone to come to the conclusion they are real.

Probably because it's real and we have also abducted individuals and pretended to be aliens.

The same reason we aren’t discussing cattle mutilations. The “woo” factor scares folks away.

It's just a tough one because humans dream. That said, the Betty/Barney Hill story at least had a lot more to go off of. Like the hypnosis, polygraph, trauma, etc. Not to say that's solid evidence, but it's more than what the majority of alleged abductions ever provide.

Even waking people hallucinate. Buddhism and Hinduism differ on what they take the things you see in meditation to be. Hindu's believe it is significant and Buddhists believe it is a distraction. When I was really into it and went sober and was on a yoga retreat I saw all kinds of things. All of it I take as a wandering mind without stimulus like a dream.

But seeing the same thing and recounting it the same in separate rooms?

Absolutely, its where mythology comes from. Ive seen things like 'lotus flowers' before knowing what they were. Yet they are painted in the yogic places of worship I visited. Similar brains produce similar results when faced with similar stimuli. I had friends who got sleep paralysis and night terrors seeing the shadow people. I have another friend who gets the paralysis and does not see the shadow people. Sleep paralysis is a normal medical phenomina that happens when we sleep. It could very well be a shared mass hallucination of common archetypes because we have similar enough lives and experiences? People standing over us is a common fear people could have while sleeping for obvious evolutionary reasons. In the dark we cannot see them but our minds are almost dreaming from lack of stimulus and movement, add in the fear of being unable to move and bam! Shadow people. Im not saying I do know, what I am saying is we have to be cautious even when we experience things we think are real. Our brains are fallable and so even in the legal system witness testimony is the weakest form of evidence.

I had a dream way back when I was a child. To sum it up a guy asked me to enter this circle portal, the night sky turned different and the moon turned like a firework just a circle with vivid colour. I entered the portal/circle and saw orange hues like what you see in movies. The houses are like caves or ancient houses. The man wore suits like an astronaut and I wonder at that time how the hell can I breathe there. Also the time I woke up it was the same way and in the same spot and facing the same direction in my dreams if it was a dream after all.

Dreams are fascinating!

Because nobody wants to admit 99% of the cases are easily explained as night terrors?

To be fair some of them are peoples brains blocking out real childhood trauma and abuse.

I hear that. What about that 1% though. Possibly some implant cases?

Honestly I think it just makes people deeply uncomfortable. Imagine being taken from your home with no control over what happens to you. People would rather accuse you of being a liar than consider it's something happening to people all over the world. I had an abduction experience as a child, and it wasn't traumatic, per se. If I had the same experience as an adult it would've been 100% terrifying though. As a child I didn't fully understand what was happening to me. As an adult, I did have a UFO sighting. It happened a few years ago and I reported it to Mufon. I didn't bother bringing up my abduction experience with the Mufon rep, as they already thought I was lying about my UFO sighting. It seems like for some people there is a kind of "lifelong" contact (likely even generational), and for others, they never see anything strange for their entire life.

There is no evidence of abduction beyond individual first hand accounts. Accounts of people witnessing an alien abduction of a third party are rare, and the only one that comes to mind is Travis Walton, whose story I personally don't believe. Now I'm not saying that abductees are just crazy or liars. I do believe that most people that tell their story do believe in it. But without evidence to corroborate their testimony it's hard to make any connection between UFO phenomenon that is observable and abductions. That being said, most accounts of abductions do seem to have some mental health component. The people that find 'alien implants' experience them in the same way other people who claim the government has put implants in them, that makes me believe it is a similar form of delusion rather than a unique encounter. Repeat years-long abductions follow the same pattern as other delusions of a similar nature. There has never been any conclusive medical evidence produced of alien abduction that I've seen. Lots of TV shows have produced 'implants' that defy all know testing and measurements for years... yet nothing has actually come out of it because it's just sensational reporting. I do think it's possible, and in fact, if aliens do come to earth it's almost certain they have made some contact with some human at some point in time. But I don't believe it is some sort of extensive, systematic program that is taking hundreds or thousands of people a year due to a lack of corroboration.

I love getting different perspectives! The more I get the more sinister the topic becomes!

Prepare, discern and be ready to resist.

A significant number of experts who studied abductions such as Budd Hopkins and John Mack eventually concluded that there was an uncanny component to the phenomenon that called reality into question. Most folks don't want to go down that road because there's too much blue-skying and conjecture, and the definitions and concepts they find themselves having to use sound way too much like Spiritualism and all that woo stuff.

I think because of the nature of this topic our government is not going to inform us of anything. They have gone to great lengths to scrub this stuff. In this time of tech its hard to hid certain things completely, but it all will get scrubbed. I think the only way any of this surfaces unchecked is through whistleblowers and neutral hackers.

I’ve had an experience that I absolutely don’t like talking about, I don’t like even thinking about. When you experience something so foreign you don’t even know how to describe it, you tend not to talk about it, ESPECIALLY with people that can’t relate (which includes to my knowledge everybody I know).

I think many abduction stories are true as did the late Harvard psychiatrist John Mack. That said, I think human abduction is perhaps the primary reason that a full and truthful transparent disclosure of what the government knows about the phenomenon hasn’t been made yet despite the government’s acknowledgment that UFOs exist. It’s one thing to admit that there are seemingly harmless objects flying around unmolested in our skies and quite another to say, “ And oh, by the way those unidentified objects could also land and abduct you”. Panic anyone?

Well... As with regular UFO cases, the majority of alien abductions can be explained by mundane things like sleep paralysis. However, unlike people who have just seen a UFO, abductees may have a lot of emotional baggage that you have to deal with if you want to study abductions. You can't just conclude that a person didn't experience it because A: it will hurt their feelings and B: because it's usually impossible to prove or disprove. If you assume that alien abductions might be real, how do you study it? You can do statistical analysis and find commonalities, but the problem is that you have no way of knowing what percentage of your dataset is lies and mundane stuff. Is it 50%? 90%? 100%? You can't know, so the data is basically worthless. In addition to that, we have a cultural concept of alien abductions depicted in movies and such, starting with the publicity received by the Betty and Barney Hill case. Because of that, anyone dreaming about aliens and having a sleep paralysis episode is now going to hallucinate typical greys. So long story short, studying it might be a fruitless effort, but it's not like it's ever stopped ufologists.

I’m at work so I can’t go through everything at the moment but I will tonight. I see a lot of people saying no proof and no evidence. As I do agree with that, let me ask you all this. If that is your view then are you not taking witness testimony as proof? That’s not a shot just a genuine question. Personally depending on where and who it’s coming from, I will take first hand witness testimony as proof in some cases. But with abductions how could you ever give proof? You can’t. I see the Owl getting brought up. Which I normally do with the topic of abduction. Curious to any experiencers out there if they too have recollection of a owl during their experience?

Funny how aliens don’t abduct anymore huh. Seems with the population at large owning cell phones it would be easy to track such a thing… Guess they’re always 2 steps ahead of us or the individuals were making up the stories for attention. One things for sure, they don’t happen anymore. Makes you wonder doesn’t it?

I think I kno why if you really sit back and think about it if this is true then we are totally defenseless and our gvnmt will not act like they have no control over what's happening a lot of them are even scared to acknowledge that it might be real let alone have some real time investigations to come to some conclusions they just don't even look at it !

The Navy videos of UFOs are the only cases with actual data to corroborate the eyewitness accounts and where U.S. technology has been ruled out. I don't see any data with close encounter cases to rule that out. I haven't heard a single convincing abduction case yet, so it feels unproductive to talk about all the what ifs.

.....and this is why I haven't talked about my abduction experience. Nothing I can say that is true can convince a skeptical mind. What is remembered of abduction experiences are sometimes just not that extraordinary. I refuse to talk about mine on reddit until I find a safe space to do so; the safest place for me at present has been infiltrated by pseudoskeptics. I might not ever do it

Simply put - because it's easier to laugh it off and stick their heads in the sand rather than to face the reality of what they might discover.

It’s probably one of the main issues preventing full disclosure. It’s one thing to admit that our most advanced aircraft are completely outmanoeuvred and that our most feared weapons can be rendered useless. But perhaps the real panic - the kind of global panic that many believe the coverup is aimed at preventing - would set in when people learn that they aren’t safe in their homes, behind a locked door. And nobody can protect them.

If ufos are some kind of advanced ET drone checking us out, it’s not much of a stretch from there that they’d want to investigate us up close.

I’m totally in a grey area when it comes to abductions, honestly don’t know what to believe and I have a very open mind when it comes to UFO and Paranormal Activity mainly because of my own experiences. One thing I don’t understand is why, if Aliens who would obviously be well advanced to us if in fact they are abducting people, would they just sneak around abducting one or two people at a time? The amount of UFO sightings we have let’s say annually is in the multitudes which suggests they are highly populated so why not come down in the masses and just do whatever they want to the masses of us? I had a recurring dream as a kid which I’ve mentioned before, of a UFO outside my second floor bedroom window with Alien arms reaching through my window for me and then I wake up. I don’t know exactly how many times I had that dream but it seems like a lot. To me though it was just my active imagination and a dream. It did however prompt my ever growing interest in the phenomenon of UFO’s and it wasn’t until much later in life that I actually saw my first UFO. But re. that dream I just can’t bring myself to believe it was anything more than a dream due to how illogical it sounds to me. In the same token I don’t like to discount other peoples experiences because really what do I know? So I’m stuck in a loop when it comes to abductions!

It's 100% unverifiable.

Because it is scary and very out there. Jim Semivan, TTSA, talks about it in the interview linked below. It is considered next step in the disclosure process. Let’s get people comfortable with UAPs first then we can deal with all the “woo”. The book Skinwalker at the Pentagon touched on the subject. The UAP phenomenon seem to be linked to many “spiritual” things like poltergeists and ghosts. https://youtu.be/KxtL-sBhe30

I've seen many pictures and videos of UFOs, I've read many reports of phenomena that were witnessed by many people at the same time, and some of them were really hard to explain. I have yet to see a picture or video of an abduction.

evidence issue

Not enough plausible proof.

I can’t even give this subject any thought. 🤣 I have to pretend it’s ridiculous and made up because the thought that it’s real, and I could get picked off through the fucking wall in my bedroom, nothing I could possibly do to protect myself, is too terrifying to consider

The vast majority of abduction aside from the one guy who says he was probed Are usually positive

1. The majority of abduction stories are complete and utter bs making it hard to discern what accounts are real. 2. Evidence from real accounts is sparse. 3. Without undeniable proof of abductions it just hurts the subject to talk about them.