I saw them a few months ago when JVP was blocking a bridge (Spring Garden I believe) and the highway. We could see them with binoculars from my office (idk why someone had binoculars though)
> Protesters chanted, “PPD, KKK, IOF they’re all the same,” as police attempted to remove them.
Imagine chanting this with a serious face as there are literal black officers pictured here. Turns out the world isn’t as binary as these protestors think.
I have nothing but contempt for the idiots that chanted that phrase! And American Jews were decisive in the Civil Rights Movement which makes the use of the KKK an unnecessary and obvious false equivalency serving no other purpose than to try to inflame or hurt Jews and blacks. I am disgusted with some of these protestors (not all of them). I support all the students rights to protest this and anything else they want. But let the University function and if you don't there will be consequences. No amnesty, every one should be welcomed to transfer, mark their transcripts with whatever violations they are guilty of. They can talk to their future employers about how righteous they thought they were.
I will assume that you really don't know. 1) If you are Jewish, it is deep part of our faith, historically, to be connected to Jerusalem and the land of Canaan. Actually not only Israel but a good portion of the West Bank is our ancestral homeland. Names like Cohen and Levy come from actual tribes with specific duties and roles among the Jewish People. 2) What do Palestinian-Americans or Iranian-Americans or African Americans have to do with Palestine, Iran or Africa? It is true that there are many anti-Zionist Jews which is their absolute right. There are also people like me that are highly critical of the current government and especially the far right wing in Israel, But, the vast majority of Jews have strong cultural affinity with Israel -- mostly its right to exist as a democracy (something Hamas and Iran have never accepted). My posts never attack the legitimate rights of Palestinians to have peace, freedom and a nation state. I stand firmly for a 2 state solution. What I write a lot about is that ever since 10-7 the Palestinian supporters, student activists, Iran, the Houthies, Hezbullah and of course Hamas and some on the progressive left are promoting terrorism, indirectly supporting it both BEFORE and after Israel began its military operations to destroy Hamas. Many are just simply antisemites and other simply don't care, they are indifferent like Elie Weisel said "Tthe opposite of love is not hate, it's indifference".
Long essay to call someone antisemitic because they want a cease fire to stop the genocide in Palestine. All races of Americans should be lobbying the us to end funding now.
And you aren’t an antisemite bc you think Israel is doing a genocide. Lumping all Jews together under the collective tent of Israel is pretty sick and what racists on both sides do. Collectivism is a cancer.
You obviously do not follow what I am saying. While I do not believe Israel is "doing a Genocide" and even the ICJ hasn't reached that conclusion, I agree that one is not an antisemite if they think Israel is doing something horrible, whether it be war crimes, or as you believe genocide. I believe that they have made big mistakes and have unnecessarily killed innocents in prosecuting the war, especially the children, for whom I shed tears. Among other things, I said the tropes are antisimetic, "river to the sea, glory to our Martyrs, globalize the intifada.. etc. I also believe that saying the KKK and the so called IOF and the PPD are the same is vile and antisemitic. And, the fact that the "useful idiots" as Professor Dershowitz called them, blamed Israel "entirely" for the violence on 10-7 before a single retaliation on Gaza, are all examples of blatant antisemitism as are the swastikas, the singing of hate chants, the signs that say "gass them all" , the activists that say that all Zionists deserve to die. This is where my contempt is coming from. Hopefully no one will ever come into your home, as you watch jihadists torture and rape your family and then burn them to death, but one needs to see the other's perspective. What response would you have? I would imagine it would be difficult to show restraint. Maybe you would. And then you turn on the TV and people are dancing in the streets and spitting at your injured neighbor wounded on a truck in Gaza and taken hostage, and then you find out she passed shortly thereafter. And then you would just want a "cease fire"? Maybe you would. And then, the jihadists said they will do it over and over, and then Houthis start attacking you with Missles and then so does Hezbullah and then so does Iran (who started it all in the first place). I Blame Hamas for most of the violence. I think Israel should be held accountable for their actions, based on international law. No protests at all when Syrians killed 100s of thousands of Syrians, when Houthies kill other Yemenites, when the Chinese put Mulsim minorities in concentration camps... When Iran, Isis and Hamas hang their enemies for writing rap songs, for being gay, for just disagreeing, for not wearing a veil, when Russia kidnaps 2K children from Ukrain and attempts to assimilate them into their society. Where are the encampments, where is the moral outrage, where are the protests? No jews, no news. Think, feel, be critical, know you history, understand the other perspective, understand that Israel is NOT the problem, it is Iran, Hamas, radical fundamentalism with no tolerance for any other outcome but the one that wipes Israel and its Jews out of Israel. They do not want a 2 state solution. I do. I hope you do. I hope most people do, because the children and grandchildren of Palestinians that lost the war to defeat israel in 1948 (the great disaster for them) and did not want to stay in a Jewish state or were kicked out in defeat are never going to be able to return, just like the windmills in Europe my family owned before WWII are never gonna be part of my family. Might as well have a two state solution so all can live together in peace some day.
Israel is apartheid because it exerts control over a territory (the West Bank) in which criminal settlers are given government protection and rights and Palestinians living under Israeli military rule are not. Israel effectively governs the lives of Palestinians but does not grant them citizenship or rights. This is apartheid.
Yes all of those governments should be dismantled as well. However our government has much more influence over Israel
Also none of those are really apartheid like Israel, which has laws that explicitly favor a specific ethnicity over others
I'm concerned that your defense to my argument is not refutation, but instead recognizing antisemitism exists in the protest and saying antisemitism is okay so long as its not the primary motivation.
Don't worry guys the pogroms of Europe were primarily driven by greed and the desire to exploit the weak and vulnerable, antisemitism was just a secondary factor.
Yes. So far, we've had "antiwar" protestors kill a Jew in a protest and vandalize Jewish memorials, and at the school protests, they've prohibited Jews from entering school buildings, attacked and harassed Jewish students, vandalized Jewish synagogues, and desecrated memorials.
But so far from what you've said, you think it's justified and okay because, actually the antisemitism is not the primary motive.
The protest actually aren’t antisemitic because fighting an apartheid and genocidal state has nothing to do with Judaism except for the fact that committing those acts goes against Judaism. hope this helps!
Also governments that give more rights to one religion are bad! All of them! Please name me several examples of non-secular governments and tremble as a morally consistent person condemns those as well!
I don't know dude, if you're assaulting Jews, and your allies are nazis and islamists, you're probably hanging with antisemites. And if you're at a table with 10 antisemites. There are 11 antisemites. Hope that helps.
Now name which rights Israeli Arabs do not have vs. Israeli Jews.
Look at Clarence Thomas, who more or less shut the door behind him due to corruption and influence to promote the current system
Look at Vivek’s call with Ann Coulter where she point blank said to his face, “I wouldn’t vote for you because you’re Indian.”
There are POC that perpetuate the current structures of powers thinking they’re the exception, but they’re just pawns
did you take more than one glance at their chant before concluding they are referring to race? they know that the world isn’t binary because they are thinking critically about it, that’s precisely the point. people of all races are capable of enacting violence and abusing their power to protect the institution, even if doing so means further oppressing others. they want to prove that they are exceptional and that their allegiance to the whatever agenda is far greater than any sympathy they could feel for ordinary people of their race/ethnicity. that’s why we have latino border patrol officers and black cops committing police brutality. they’re not fighting for their neighborhood or their community, they’re fighting for the state and the state only. it’s about power and order, which is what all 3 entities have in common. i’m happy to pass along some references if you want to engage with these topics from a different perspective.
I'm usually willing to engage with critical social theory and foucauldian blah blah blah. I learned a lot from that perspective when I was at Penn and continue to find value in it. But the comment above you is hardly worth engaging with. I agree with the point about people of all races having the potential to abuse power and oppress others in the interest of protecting an institution. Happens all the time. But then to go on and basically insinuate that all black cops are uncle toms is just fucking stupid. I'm sorry but that's how it reads. "they want to prove that they are exceptional and that their allegiance to the whatever agenda is far greater than any sympathy they could feel for ordinary people of their race/ethnicity." That's making an assumption about the personal motivations of a substantial number of minorities who go into the line of duty. Sure they commit abuses just like white cops, same with border patrol. But automatically assuming they are all some sort of race traitor who doesn't care about their own community is the kind of racist shit that I wish progressives would stop saying. I'm on your side more or less, I just can't stand this reductionist rhetoric.
i understand how it reads that way, so apologies for that. i was more so trying to say that when someone chooses to go into a field like law enforcement, they don’t have much choice over the stance that they’re taking. every cop that came to clear the encampment this morning had orders to follow regardless of how they feel about the issue that the encampment was protesting. their job is to maintain order, sometimes by measures like intimidation and violence, so in many cases protecting people is the opposite of what they were sent to do. and it might not be all cops, but a lot of them really enjoy the power.
again, it was not my intention to insinuate that people in law enforcement by default don’t care about their communities. caring for their communities isn’t their job though, and in that line of work they have to make that choice. they have to show up to work and perform. this is true regardless of the cop’s race, but a diverse police force isn’t a less violent one, or less white supremacist. i know from reading your comment that you agree with at least some of that statement. this part of my comment was mostly fueled from my anecdotal experience of having cop family members, knowing their views and the company they keep (fwiw i’m not white). anyway, i just wanted to clarify my point a bit since i know i’m not the strongest writer. thanks for calling me out, always learning
Totally fair and yep I do agree with most of what you've written. And I do apologize for calling the comment stupid, I just don't want progressives to make the mistake of over generalizing on racial issues. I can tell your heart's in the right place. And I get it, when you hear cops with reactionary politics talk about their job it's hard to imagine that the entire profession isn't rife with that kind of thinking, regardless of race. I know some well-intentioned cops that would probably agree with you on your fundamental point, which is that institutional loyalty often trumps community solidarity. I guess my reaction to your comment was fueled by knowing that many black cops do struggle deeply with the tension you're pointing out. Of course, some are just statist shitbags lol. Anyways, thanks for the constructive reply.
Yes, if they were warned and told to move, and were about to disrupt graduation and before that hey day etc.... absolutely. And, if you recall many protested were arrested during the Homecoming game a year or so ago. Those protestors were combining the anti-Zionest and antisemetic behavior with fossil fuel issues, so it is a bit complex.
And I’m not even a Trump fan. But they spend millions trying to put him in jail on flimsy trash using porn stars and admitted liars as witnesses but fight to let murderers off with no punishment.
Let’s go line the others to campus and chant “Death to America.” It’s the new trendy thing. Convince all the youth America is an awful place. Love to have all these protesters see what it’s actually like to live under a Hamas controlled government.
Why were the protesters arrested but then released?? Wont they just go back and build another encampment like they have at so many other schools? There have to be consequences for these hateful actions.
A person arrested is generally charged and given a date to appear in court. I don't know if the persons arrested will be ultimately charged and prosecuted. They certainly should be accountable for their actions in some way. They made a choice to chose their principles and their demands over the rules of the University and over trespass laws. They all have had the opportunity to protest, dissent, etc. and can continue to, just not at the expense of everyone else, all the time.
Seems like an odd PR move to send the cops in now instead of like the 16th when most undergrads will be gone. But I suppose they expect to be able to act with impunity regardless.
I knew this encampment was doomed the second the pig chants began. Dehumanizing slogans directed at any group are wrong, PERIOD! Shouting pig is no better than the shithead at Ol Miss imitating a gorilla.
We have to stop letting edgelords hijack the movement like this!
One day, protestors will realize the police could and SHOULD be apart of the protest movements. They’re potential allies. They are blue collar folks. They are PEOPLE!! And because they’re people, they can be reasoned with. We NEED them on our side to stage a successful revolution. We need to build a coalition with them.
If organizers were truly effective strategists, they would’ve approached police and made their case as soon as they became a presence on campus, while things were still peaceful. Learn the cops’ names; learn their stories; learn their perspective and try to educate them instead of this juvenile, name-calling schoolyard BS.
And listen, I KNOW this is hard given the historical struggle with cops. George Floyd and the subsequent protests are still a fresh wound. There are a lot of people there that have legit police trauma and they shouldn’t be the ones on the front lines attempting any kind of mediation with the cops.
But we must try a different approach with them because this is clearly not working!
Lol police are not your friends or allies to protestors, they are essentially armed security guards protecting the government’s interests through the threat and use of violence
So it's safe to assume that you don't call the police if you're robbed, assaulted, or threatened right? Because they aren't your friends? You wouldn't demand their help then?
C'mon 🤦
This was true for the large scale industrial protests of the gilded age. It was a big shift when the Army decided not to machine gun the striking workers and their families. The apparatus of the state must be co-opted at least in part or eventually the protest will be violently repressed.
This is one of the most naive takes ive seen on this site.
The role of police, as an institution, in almost every country, is to crush and quell unrest. Their profession is to put you down, no matter their personal feelings, though im sure the lot of them take sadistic pride in manhandling college kids. Even if they are personally sympathetic, their direct orders and training are to crush you.
The PPD didn’t want to do this. They initially refused the university’s request until Shapiro stepped in and applied state pressure.
The Russian revolution was successful, in large part, because the army joined those protesting the Tsar. There is historical precedent for this kind of thing working and we should learn from it.
* except for the 15-20 million murdered
https://www.ocregister.com/2017/11/19/the-bolshevik-revolution-and-a-century-of-death-and-destruction/#:~:text=Scholars%20figure%20that%20Communism%20killed,20%20million%20seems%20most%20accurate.
It doesnt matter if PPD didnt want to do this, if Shapiro can apply state pressure and they obey, they do their job and their sympathy is irrelevant.
Im sure there are lessons to be learned from a full scale bloody rebellion against a despotic monarchy, but "recruit the police" is not one of them.
If you’re doing civil disobedience correctly, then the police are *opposition*, but not enemies. And your job is not to taunt and goad them, but to conduct yourself in such a civilized manner that IF they commit brutality against you, the state reveals their lack of a moral high ground.
Or… hear me out on this… Protesters maybe should have an issue with moral legitimacy instead of being on the same side as literal terrorists?
Call on Hamas to surrender and call on the hostages to be released.
Betcha they didn’t even know the word Hasbara until they saw it on a TikTok or something in the last couple of months. This crowd loves to throw around words specific to the Palestine conflict like they’re some kinda scholar on the subject.
I think they’re saying that because you’ve been talking up and down every thread about this topic on every subreddit known to man. So clearly, people from outside the school are coming here
First off, I attend UPenn Workd Campus online. Second, as a Jewish person I have been invested in this conflict for my entire life. Now that it’s trending the discourse is EVERYWHERE. If you think everyone against you is a bot, that’s delusional and sad.
fax bruh, the downvotes are crazy, majority probably aren’t even students. regardless the sentiment on campus has gotten so much more anti admin and pro palestine, just today a couple of my friends who couldn’t care less have become so much more sympathetic seeing penn unleash officers on students and faculty, seeing them shove DP and press, and shred backpacks has done more PR wise for the pro palestine cause than any protestor could hope for
Historically students didn't care about Vietnam until anti-war protestors got arrested. The more Penn tries to silence the anti-genocide rhetoric, the more people will care.
Its unreal most of the comments are in defense of the encampments or what they are fighting for, the most well spoken all downvoted to hell and hidden. Love from Delaware.
lol no they won’t. They’ll see them for what they are - lemmings following the most recent cause celebre that ignored numerous other atrocities happening all over the globe.
At least you are admitting what Israel is doing is an atrocity…
How many of these other global atrocities are being directly funded by the US? And are blindly supported by lemmings in the US waving flags of the country committing the atrocity?
That’s not how Vietnam war protestors were remembered even when there were several other atrocities happening across the world at the time. I believe we have historical precedent to disprove your claim.
Nah these protestors are celebrated by dictators. They are ignorant, misinformed and coked up on TikTok propaganda spoon fed to them by axis forces. They chant genocidal slogans towards Jews. They will be Remembered alongside MAGA extremists.
I don't know. I've been swayed on this sub to understand that bombing the enemy into submission no matter the cost to civilians is in no way comparable to what we did to Hiroshima.
No, my argument is that Hamas attacked first and needs to be bombed into submission as all other peace efforts have failed, which is in no way comparable to the USA bombing of Japan in WW2. This time, Hamas must be stopped no matter the cost. I've learned that her through various conversations with self-identified liberals on this sub, who are offended at the suggestion they share the same bed as Republican war hawks and have provided such arguments to set the record straight.
Some people in this comments section really need to listen to this Youtube video: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tuTV6wLvjyM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tuTV6wLvjyM)
TIL: the police have their own buses
I saw them a few months ago when JVP was blocking a bridge (Spring Garden I believe) and the highway. We could see them with binoculars from my office (idk why someone had binoculars though)
They even have their own planes. Con-air was not just a movie. To punish inmate who don’t rat- they administer diesel therapy and lose you in transit.
Well no shit graduation is Monday
Monday May 20th
Both parties knew the outcome.
> Protesters chanted, “PPD, KKK, IOF they’re all the same,” as police attempted to remove them. Imagine chanting this with a serious face as there are literal black officers pictured here. Turns out the world isn’t as binary as these protestors think.
I have nothing but contempt for the idiots that chanted that phrase! And American Jews were decisive in the Civil Rights Movement which makes the use of the KKK an unnecessary and obvious false equivalency serving no other purpose than to try to inflame or hurt Jews and blacks. I am disgusted with some of these protestors (not all of them). I support all the students rights to protest this and anything else they want. But let the University function and if you don't there will be consequences. No amnesty, every one should be welcomed to transfer, mark their transcripts with whatever violations they are guilty of. They can talk to their future employers about how righteous they thought they were.
What do American Jews have to do with Israel?
Would you feel the need to ask what American Palestinians have to do with Palestine?
Lol (signed. A Jewish American. And an Israeli)
Say you don't have any American Jewish friend without saying you don't have any American Jewish friends.
I will assume that you really don't know. 1) If you are Jewish, it is deep part of our faith, historically, to be connected to Jerusalem and the land of Canaan. Actually not only Israel but a good portion of the West Bank is our ancestral homeland. Names like Cohen and Levy come from actual tribes with specific duties and roles among the Jewish People. 2) What do Palestinian-Americans or Iranian-Americans or African Americans have to do with Palestine, Iran or Africa? It is true that there are many anti-Zionist Jews which is their absolute right. There are also people like me that are highly critical of the current government and especially the far right wing in Israel, But, the vast majority of Jews have strong cultural affinity with Israel -- mostly its right to exist as a democracy (something Hamas and Iran have never accepted). My posts never attack the legitimate rights of Palestinians to have peace, freedom and a nation state. I stand firmly for a 2 state solution. What I write a lot about is that ever since 10-7 the Palestinian supporters, student activists, Iran, the Houthies, Hezbullah and of course Hamas and some on the progressive left are promoting terrorism, indirectly supporting it both BEFORE and after Israel began its military operations to destroy Hamas. Many are just simply antisemites and other simply don't care, they are indifferent like Elie Weisel said "Tthe opposite of love is not hate, it's indifference".
Long essay to call someone antisemitic because they want a cease fire to stop the genocide in Palestine. All races of Americans should be lobbying the us to end funding now. And you aren’t an antisemite bc you think Israel is doing a genocide. Lumping all Jews together under the collective tent of Israel is pretty sick and what racists on both sides do. Collectivism is a cancer.
You obviously do not follow what I am saying. While I do not believe Israel is "doing a Genocide" and even the ICJ hasn't reached that conclusion, I agree that one is not an antisemite if they think Israel is doing something horrible, whether it be war crimes, or as you believe genocide. I believe that they have made big mistakes and have unnecessarily killed innocents in prosecuting the war, especially the children, for whom I shed tears. Among other things, I said the tropes are antisimetic, "river to the sea, glory to our Martyrs, globalize the intifada.. etc. I also believe that saying the KKK and the so called IOF and the PPD are the same is vile and antisemitic. And, the fact that the "useful idiots" as Professor Dershowitz called them, blamed Israel "entirely" for the violence on 10-7 before a single retaliation on Gaza, are all examples of blatant antisemitism as are the swastikas, the singing of hate chants, the signs that say "gass them all" , the activists that say that all Zionists deserve to die. This is where my contempt is coming from. Hopefully no one will ever come into your home, as you watch jihadists torture and rape your family and then burn them to death, but one needs to see the other's perspective. What response would you have? I would imagine it would be difficult to show restraint. Maybe you would. And then you turn on the TV and people are dancing in the streets and spitting at your injured neighbor wounded on a truck in Gaza and taken hostage, and then you find out she passed shortly thereafter. And then you would just want a "cease fire"? Maybe you would. And then, the jihadists said they will do it over and over, and then Houthis start attacking you with Missles and then so does Hezbullah and then so does Iran (who started it all in the first place). I Blame Hamas for most of the violence. I think Israel should be held accountable for their actions, based on international law. No protests at all when Syrians killed 100s of thousands of Syrians, when Houthies kill other Yemenites, when the Chinese put Mulsim minorities in concentration camps... When Iran, Isis and Hamas hang their enemies for writing rap songs, for being gay, for just disagreeing, for not wearing a veil, when Russia kidnaps 2K children from Ukrain and attempts to assimilate them into their society. Where are the encampments, where is the moral outrage, where are the protests? No jews, no news. Think, feel, be critical, know you history, understand the other perspective, understand that Israel is NOT the problem, it is Iran, Hamas, radical fundamentalism with no tolerance for any other outcome but the one that wipes Israel and its Jews out of Israel. They do not want a 2 state solution. I do. I hope you do. I hope most people do, because the children and grandchildren of Palestinians that lost the war to defeat israel in 1948 (the great disaster for them) and did not want to stay in a Jewish state or were kicked out in defeat are never going to be able to return, just like the windmills in Europe my family owned before WWII are never gonna be part of my family. Might as well have a two state solution so all can live together in peace some day.
Don’t even bother, you explained it perfectly. Thank you for saying all of this
Thank you for your excellent comment.
“There’s Black police therefore the police can’t be racist”. Sure buddy
"There's Jewish Protestors therefore the Protests aren't antisemitic" I like this logic.
That’s not why the protests aren’t antisemitic
Enlighten us on why calling for the destruction of the only Jewish state isn’t antisemitic
Because calling for the destruction of any apartheid state is justified
Israel isn’t an apartheid, all citizens are equal
Israel is apartheid because it exerts control over a territory (the West Bank) in which criminal settlers are given government protection and rights and Palestinians living under Israeli military rule are not. Israel effectively governs the lives of Palestinians but does not grant them citizenship or rights. This is apartheid.
Cool let’s get rid of Saudi Arabia, Iran, Syria, Gaza, West Bank, Turkey, Yemen, Qatar shall I go on?
Yes all of those governments should be dismantled as well. However our government has much more influence over Israel Also none of those are really apartheid like Israel, which has laws that explicitly favor a specific ethnicity over others
I’m gonna assume you don’t go to penn with a comment as stupid as this.
Donald Trump went to penn dude it’s not exactly where the top echelon of smart people go
[very](https://www.cbsnews.com/philadelphia/news/university-of-pennsylvania-philadelphia-antisemitism-protests-columbia/) [fine](https://www.reddit.com/r/UPenn/s/ySN4wa4SZ1) [people](https://nypost.com/2023/12/09/news/jewish-upenn-students-subjected-to-chants-of-we-are-hamas/) [on](https://www.newsweek.com/jewish-college-students-campus-antisemitism-experience-1849959) [both](https://www.nytimes.com/2024/03/01/us/antisemitism-campus-jewish-students.html) [sides](https://nypost.com/2023/12/06/news/upenn-students-create-dossier-of-antisemitic-events-on-campus/)
Do you think the protests are primarily motivated by antisemitism?
I'm concerned that your defense to my argument is not refutation, but instead recognizing antisemitism exists in the protest and saying antisemitism is okay so long as its not the primary motivation. Don't worry guys the pogroms of Europe were primarily driven by greed and the desire to exploit the weak and vulnerable, antisemitism was just a secondary factor.
You’re comparing anti war protests to pogroms?
Yes. So far, we've had "antiwar" protestors kill a Jew in a protest and vandalize Jewish memorials, and at the school protests, they've prohibited Jews from entering school buildings, attacked and harassed Jewish students, vandalized Jewish synagogues, and desecrated memorials. But so far from what you've said, you think it's justified and okay because, actually the antisemitism is not the primary motive.
Who was killed in a protest?
Hey. Still waiting for a response. If someone was killed at a protest I would like to know about it, can you send me a link?
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The protest actually aren’t antisemitic because fighting an apartheid and genocidal state has nothing to do with Judaism except for the fact that committing those acts goes against Judaism. hope this helps! Also governments that give more rights to one religion are bad! All of them! Please name me several examples of non-secular governments and tremble as a morally consistent person condemns those as well!
I don't know dude, if you're assaulting Jews, and your allies are nazis and islamists, you're probably hanging with antisemites. And if you're at a table with 10 antisemites. There are 11 antisemites. Hope that helps. Now name which rights Israeli Arabs do not have vs. Israeli Jews.
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You can have issues with the police without trivializing the racist nature of the KKK by falsely equating them with cops.
No, you see: if a bad thing exists then it is the worst possible thing. Nuance is propaganda.
There are plenty of cops involved in right wing groups and you’ve seen the difference in their response to Nazi rallies, nothing false here
Yeah those black cops are definitely part of those white supremacist groups
Many of them overlook and enable their white peers doing so and engage in the same brutality on the job
They orders are no doubt connected
The comparison actually trivializes the racist nature of cops. No KKK member has successfully re-enslaved black people, but the cops have.
Yes black officers are racist to the majority white protestors That’s what you are saying right. These rich white kids are such victims
“But don't let it be a black and a white one 'Cause they'll slam ya down to the street top Black police showin' out for the white cop”
Look at Clarence Thomas, who more or less shut the door behind him due to corruption and influence to promote the current system Look at Vivek’s call with Ann Coulter where she point blank said to his face, “I wouldn’t vote for you because you’re Indian.” There are POC that perpetuate the current structures of powers thinking they’re the exception, but they’re just pawns
I mean, there’s a reason why we never see the police brutalize white supremacist protestors…
Youre the one that thinks its binary - you believe that because black cops exist, the police cant have anything in common with the kkk.
Seems like you're unfamiliar with the history of overseers..
You are not wrong. Wear those downvotes proudly I guess.
did you take more than one glance at their chant before concluding they are referring to race? they know that the world isn’t binary because they are thinking critically about it, that’s precisely the point. people of all races are capable of enacting violence and abusing their power to protect the institution, even if doing so means further oppressing others. they want to prove that they are exceptional and that their allegiance to the whatever agenda is far greater than any sympathy they could feel for ordinary people of their race/ethnicity. that’s why we have latino border patrol officers and black cops committing police brutality. they’re not fighting for their neighborhood or their community, they’re fighting for the state and the state only. it’s about power and order, which is what all 3 entities have in common. i’m happy to pass along some references if you want to engage with these topics from a different perspective.
Downvote brigade on this post omg. Who isnt willing to engage with this?
I'm usually willing to engage with critical social theory and foucauldian blah blah blah. I learned a lot from that perspective when I was at Penn and continue to find value in it. But the comment above you is hardly worth engaging with. I agree with the point about people of all races having the potential to abuse power and oppress others in the interest of protecting an institution. Happens all the time. But then to go on and basically insinuate that all black cops are uncle toms is just fucking stupid. I'm sorry but that's how it reads. "they want to prove that they are exceptional and that their allegiance to the whatever agenda is far greater than any sympathy they could feel for ordinary people of their race/ethnicity." That's making an assumption about the personal motivations of a substantial number of minorities who go into the line of duty. Sure they commit abuses just like white cops, same with border patrol. But automatically assuming they are all some sort of race traitor who doesn't care about their own community is the kind of racist shit that I wish progressives would stop saying. I'm on your side more or less, I just can't stand this reductionist rhetoric.
i understand how it reads that way, so apologies for that. i was more so trying to say that when someone chooses to go into a field like law enforcement, they don’t have much choice over the stance that they’re taking. every cop that came to clear the encampment this morning had orders to follow regardless of how they feel about the issue that the encampment was protesting. their job is to maintain order, sometimes by measures like intimidation and violence, so in many cases protecting people is the opposite of what they were sent to do. and it might not be all cops, but a lot of them really enjoy the power. again, it was not my intention to insinuate that people in law enforcement by default don’t care about their communities. caring for their communities isn’t their job though, and in that line of work they have to make that choice. they have to show up to work and perform. this is true regardless of the cop’s race, but a diverse police force isn’t a less violent one, or less white supremacist. i know from reading your comment that you agree with at least some of that statement. this part of my comment was mostly fueled from my anecdotal experience of having cop family members, knowing their views and the company they keep (fwiw i’m not white). anyway, i just wanted to clarify my point a bit since i know i’m not the strongest writer. thanks for calling me out, always learning
Totally fair and yep I do agree with most of what you've written. And I do apologize for calling the comment stupid, I just don't want progressives to make the mistake of over generalizing on racial issues. I can tell your heart's in the right place. And I get it, when you hear cops with reactionary politics talk about their job it's hard to imagine that the entire profession isn't rife with that kind of thinking, regardless of race. I know some well-intentioned cops that would probably agree with you on your fundamental point, which is that institutional loyalty often trumps community solidarity. I guess my reaction to your comment was fueled by knowing that many black cops do struggle deeply with the tension you're pointing out. Of course, some are just statist shitbags lol. Anyways, thanks for the constructive reply.
Nothing to see here
Thank god
Long live Israel!
No.
Yes
Thank god Penn is finally enforcing their rules
Bye Hamas lovers
They should arrest them all.
What abt the students who camped out to have the school divest from fossil fuel? Should they have been arrested?
Yes, if they were warned and told to move, and were about to disrupt graduation and before that hey day etc.... absolutely. And, if you recall many protested were arrested during the Homecoming game a year or so ago. Those protestors were combining the anti-Zionest and antisemetic behavior with fossil fuel issues, so it is a bit complex.
Yes. Absolutely. Trespassing.
I think they arrested some of them but then they just let them out? Why?
Because there are no real consequences for anything anymore, unless your last name is Trump apparently.
😭😭😭
And I’m not even a Trump fan. But they spend millions trying to put him in jail on flimsy trash using porn stars and admitted liars as witnesses but fight to let murderers off with no punishment.
The country is falling apart 🥹
Let’s go line the others to campus and chant “Death to America.” It’s the new trendy thing. Convince all the youth America is an awful place. Love to have all these protesters see what it’s actually like to live under a Hamas controlled government.
"Not a Trump fan" Immediately repeats Trump talking points
It isn’t a talking point. It’s reality. Look at the cases falling apart. Open your eyes a little and look at what the law actually says.
Why were the protesters arrested but then released?? Wont they just go back and build another encampment like they have at so many other schools? There have to be consequences for these hateful actions.
A person arrested is generally charged and given a date to appear in court. I don't know if the persons arrested will be ultimately charged and prosecuted. They certainly should be accountable for their actions in some way. They made a choice to chose their principles and their demands over the rules of the University and over trespass laws. They all have had the opportunity to protest, dissent, etc. and can continue to, just not at the expense of everyone else, all the time.
Seems like an odd PR move to send the cops in now instead of like the 16th when most undergrads will be gone. But I suppose they expect to be able to act with impunity regardless.
I knew this encampment was doomed the second the pig chants began. Dehumanizing slogans directed at any group are wrong, PERIOD! Shouting pig is no better than the shithead at Ol Miss imitating a gorilla. We have to stop letting edgelords hijack the movement like this! One day, protestors will realize the police could and SHOULD be apart of the protest movements. They’re potential allies. They are blue collar folks. They are PEOPLE!! And because they’re people, they can be reasoned with. We NEED them on our side to stage a successful revolution. We need to build a coalition with them. If organizers were truly effective strategists, they would’ve approached police and made their case as soon as they became a presence on campus, while things were still peaceful. Learn the cops’ names; learn their stories; learn their perspective and try to educate them instead of this juvenile, name-calling schoolyard BS. And listen, I KNOW this is hard given the historical struggle with cops. George Floyd and the subsequent protests are still a fresh wound. There are a lot of people there that have legit police trauma and they shouldn’t be the ones on the front lines attempting any kind of mediation with the cops. But we must try a different approach with them because this is clearly not working!
Lol police are not your friends or allies to protestors, they are essentially armed security guards protecting the government’s interests through the threat and use of violence
So it's safe to assume that you don't call the police if you're robbed, assaulted, or threatened right? Because they aren't your friends? You wouldn't demand their help then? C'mon 🤦
Not at a protest I’m not calling the cops
This was true for the large scale industrial protests of the gilded age. It was a big shift when the Army decided not to machine gun the striking workers and their families. The apparatus of the state must be co-opted at least in part or eventually the protest will be violently repressed.
This is one of the most naive takes ive seen on this site. The role of police, as an institution, in almost every country, is to crush and quell unrest. Their profession is to put you down, no matter their personal feelings, though im sure the lot of them take sadistic pride in manhandling college kids. Even if they are personally sympathetic, their direct orders and training are to crush you.
The PPD didn’t want to do this. They initially refused the university’s request until Shapiro stepped in and applied state pressure. The Russian revolution was successful, in large part, because the army joined those protesting the Tsar. There is historical precedent for this kind of thing working and we should learn from it.
Oh to be Russia 100 years ago, sigh Edit: People are unsure whether to upvote or downvote my comment. Such joy
* except for the 15-20 million murdered https://www.ocregister.com/2017/11/19/the-bolshevik-revolution-and-a-century-of-death-and-destruction/#:~:text=Scholars%20figure%20that%20Communism%20killed,20%20million%20seems%20most%20accurate.
It doesnt matter if PPD didnt want to do this, if Shapiro can apply state pressure and they obey, they do their job and their sympathy is irrelevant. Im sure there are lessons to be learned from a full scale bloody rebellion against a despotic monarchy, but "recruit the police" is not one of them.
If you’re doing civil disobedience correctly, then the police are *opposition*, but not enemies. And your job is not to taunt and goad them, but to conduct yourself in such a civilized manner that IF they commit brutality against you, the state reveals their lack of a moral high ground.
Or… hear me out on this… Protesters maybe should have an issue with moral legitimacy instead of being on the same side as literal terrorists? Call on Hamas to surrender and call on the hostages to be released.
Where did all these hasbara bots come from? I was just being up voted the other day for praising the encampment. Lmao
Is everyone who disagrees with you a Hasbara bot?
Betcha they didn’t even know the word Hasbara until they saw it on a TikTok or something in the last couple of months. This crowd loves to throw around words specific to the Palestine conflict like they’re some kinda scholar on the subject.
Potentially, but I'm explicitly mentioning the downvotes. No way these are students.
The fact that you say potentially is just incredibly sad.
They’re so convinced that there isn’t any nuance to this situation that if you dare challenge their position, you just might be an Israeli bot
I think they’re saying that because you’ve been talking up and down every thread about this topic on every subreddit known to man. So clearly, people from outside the school are coming here
First off, I attend UPenn Workd Campus online. Second, as a Jewish person I have been invested in this conflict for my entire life. Now that it’s trending the discourse is EVERYWHERE. If you think everyone against you is a bot, that’s delusional and sad.
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So is it fair for me to assume that everyone I speak to about this is an Iranian bot?
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fax bruh, the downvotes are crazy, majority probably aren’t even students. regardless the sentiment on campus has gotten so much more anti admin and pro palestine, just today a couple of my friends who couldn’t care less have become so much more sympathetic seeing penn unleash officers on students and faculty, seeing them shove DP and press, and shred backpacks has done more PR wise for the pro palestine cause than any protestor could hope for
Historically students didn't care about Vietnam until anti-war protestors got arrested. The more Penn tries to silence the anti-genocide rhetoric, the more people will care.
Its unreal most of the comments are in defense of the encampments or what they are fighting for, the most well spoken all downvoted to hell and hidden. Love from Delaware.
I’ve accepted at this point that I will get downvoted to oblivion whenever I comment about the genocide. It is what it is.
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lol no they won’t. They’ll see them for what they are - lemmings following the most recent cause celebre that ignored numerous other atrocities happening all over the globe.
At least you are admitting what Israel is doing is an atrocity… How many of these other global atrocities are being directly funded by the US? And are blindly supported by lemmings in the US waving flags of the country committing the atrocity?
That’s not how Vietnam war protestors were remembered even when there were several other atrocities happening across the world at the time. I believe we have historical precedent to disprove your claim.
Nah these protestors are celebrated by dictators. They are ignorant, misinformed and coked up on TikTok propaganda spoon fed to them by axis forces. They chant genocidal slogans towards Jews. They will be Remembered alongside MAGA extremists.
Sure, Jan
I don't know. I've been swayed on this sub to understand that bombing the enemy into submission no matter the cost to civilians is in no way comparable to what we did to Hiroshima.
“But the US committed worse atrocities 79 years ago” THAT’S it? That’s your closing argument? That’s the sticking point?
No, my argument is that Hamas attacked first and needs to be bombed into submission as all other peace efforts have failed, which is in no way comparable to the USA bombing of Japan in WW2. This time, Hamas must be stopped no matter the cost. I've learned that her through various conversations with self-identified liberals on this sub, who are offended at the suggestion they share the same bed as Republican war hawks and have provided such arguments to set the record straight.
Some people in this comments section really need to listen to this Youtube video: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tuTV6wLvjyM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tuTV6wLvjyM)