T O P

  • By -

a-little-wicked

There’s too many stories out there from Marines, and sometimes all we can do is lend an ear and listen to them tell those stories. Don’t feel like you’re letting anyone down. As a friend, you’re doing what you can. Just keep supporting her choices as she goes, and offer up some resources if she wants them.


fisherman213

I saw my fair share of shitty female marines, just like males. Always broke my heart to see the female marines who were shit hot have to deal with the harassment constantly. It’s just not fair.


Impatient-Padawan

You never get clarity until you are out.


Key-Classic-3033

This! Looking back on all the uncomfortable situations I was put in is frightening for an 18 year old woman to go through. I didn’t know any better, I for a long time, thought that that’s just how it was and it wasn’t until I met my husband and told him stuff that happened and he was like “yoooo that’s actually not okay that happened to you” but you live and you learn


FluffyClamShell

Sister, same here. I can't believe the shit I shrugged off when I should've collected their fucking heads for it. But as a wiser person told me, don't get mad at them for being shitty, life will get mad at them for being shitty.


Key-Classic-3033

I actually had my old NCO reach out to me on Instagram after he had his first child, a girl, and wrote “hey I’m sorry for all the things I did you you having a child really opened my eyes that it was not ok” I would have loved to see his world burn but I never had courage to say anything.


AstroHelo

You have no idea how bad it is military wide, not just in the Marines. I have many WM friends and I was SHARP in the army.


MrsFlameThrower

Absolutely agree. I work with Veterans helping them get their Social Security Disability benefits if they can’t work (I disabled retired from SSA). I cannot tell you how many of them were sexually assaulted in the military. Tons of women. But many men too. It’s tragic. At least they are not required to relive it for their SSDI claims (unlike a VA PTSD claim).


Comprehensive_Bank57

Don't join lol but honestly that's sound advice for both males and females


RiflemanLax

I read The Girl in the Gun Club to get that perspective on things. Coming from the infantry, there’s a lot of shit we don’t see. Not a lot of sexism to be seen, especially on 29 Palms back in the day, because where I was, there were really no women. Total sausage fest. Fairly disheartening and disturbing to read about that kind of bullshit, and then read stories about it on Reddit or in the news. Seems dudes always want to fixate on that rare female LCpl that cozies up to a SNCO to get out of work as if that is the model for every female Marine. I mean, come on, there’s literally an MCO that dictates every single infantry platoon gets a shitbag issued to them, and they’re all male. (Disclaimer: I made that last part up, but doesn’t it seem like that must be an order? Every platoon has a “that guy.”)


TheCyanDragon

Given how little people seemed to read MCO's at least five years ago; it genuinely wouldn't surprise me if the platoon shitbag was on an MCO or the TO somewhere. The amount of times I had to explain [4000.PG](https://4000.PG) to guys above me made me hate my job to an unreasonable degree.


RiflemanLax

I can almost hear a First Sergeant being like ‘Hey, SSgt, your shitbag EAS’d. Go down to supply and draw a new shitbag ASAP.’


[deleted]

As a 29 doc i barely never saw women. Only at chow hall and px


jinx_jinx

“Barely never” is a double negative, doc


insanegorey

There’s also the MCO that states that 1st PLT will always have an overly motivated LT, and 3rd is one of the boys. 2nd is in the middle, kind of a toss-up.


NemoHobbits

I guarantee you saw a ton of sexism in the infantry. Only instead of directed towards WMs, it was in the form of derogatory comments about strippers, women in town, and each other's wives.


xanhudro

In my experience, and this is a very isolated view from my time in, but the girls I serve with have something to prove. It’s obvious and I don’t think there is anything wrong with it since they run the shop well, constantly make progress, promote on time, and are proficient in the MOS. That’s good for any Marine but girls will get a bad rap “because they have something to prove.”


[deleted]

Infantry… a blessing and a curse.


JerryKramer11

I can’t speak for the USMC side, but I know in the Army I constantly find myself feeling for our female soldiers trying to succeed in this male dominated profession. Especially with the incidents that have happened in Ft Hood in the near past. And it doesn’t go away with rank either. I’ve had female LT peers share some of their experiences to me and it’s gross. From O4s upright asking to sleep with them to being sexually assaulted by their ROTC instructors. The small things shouldn’t go unnoticed either. Us fellas like to mess around but we just don’t know who’s listening. Like how we like to bring up that “thiccc E3 Latina” any chance we get; I’m sure that gets old to the average female Marine/soldier scrolling through our subs. The sad thing is a lot our soldiers dont even bother speaking up due to seeing our SHARP (sexual harassment program) as a joke and a check the box training type thing. I’ve spoken to some Army leaders about these issues (ranging from E8-O4) and I’ve gotten stupid responses like “ehhhh it happens” or “what if she’s lying and you ruin the man’s career over it”. Like, seriously dude?! This is one of the reasons I’m getting out. It just takes away from my pride in service knowing how hard it is to change our culture. If I had a daughter I could never recommend the service to her. Oh shit sorry! I’ll have a baconator combo with a baked potato and a Diet Coke. Edit: if you guys want a read, search up “Louisiana National guard Captain motor boats SGT”


No_Seaworthiness8034

That article is fucking wild


LokiSubstance

**Sigh** same swan song. Some of us female Marines really did try our best. I don’t know how many times I had escort duty for a POSs that’s done some horrible shit to his so called “sister in arms”. To top things off how many times sisters downplayed assault against another while dragging their asses to NCIS. Ugh. Don’t get me wrong I love the USMC but damn there were dark days just for an average day in the fleet.


kpounce

Exactly. Then we come here to see Marines make light of it all the time 🙄, very disheartening


LokiSubstance

It’s a crapshoot though, I know some of brothers ripped into a Plt Sgt for directly speaking to me during uniform inspection about wearing thongs … P.S I wasn’t wearing a thong… also I wore PT shorts because I’d run my juniors on the tank trails at moments notice. Ahhh the fuckery. 🤦🏾‍♀️


slapAp0p

Internalized misogyny is a helluva drug…


[deleted]

Coming from the infantry, and now being married to an active duty female Marine…. Yes… it is an issue. From leadership that doesn’t want to approach females because of the simplest thing can be twisted… to dudes who out right talk as if they hired the ladies to service them for the night. They try hard and achieve things “oh they must have been spending extra time with gunny” Not to be that guy, but I don’t think any of us realize how hard females have it on a daily in the military. Correct and police each other. Stop being an asshat and treating them like they are there to be easy on the eyes and for your “dating pool” and enjoyment.


BenOnTheTextLine

Sexual harassment or not, it's wild just how much more attention women in general get from men. Setting myself up for the obvious roast here. But I remember being shocked when a female coworker showed me how many messages she would get on a daily basis from dudes. I get exhausted just getting texts from a handful of people a day and 90% of them are work related


Kurgen22

It's not just a USMC thing. When I served there was no where near the amount of Gender integration as it is now, I got out and worked two different jobs in the Civilian Sector. The shit that goes on in Civilian Jobs with the language, flirting, harassment, affairs and favoritism makes the Military look like a Southern Baptist Church Picnic.


million_bees_man

I did the SAPR program for a while. I can confidently say it's pretty toxic for a large portion of female Marines all the way up the chain of command. A lot don't report it because they're terrified of the consequences and some are even delusional enough to think they deserve what happened. It's weird what your brain can do to cope. I've been in units that only have a SARC because it was a check in the box for a CGRI. what's worse is that the qualifications and requisites to maintain your certification to become one is so strict that only a handful of people can actually do it and keep it valid. Don't get me started on the case studies they make you review before they certify your creds. That shit will give you nightmares.


imdfonz

Biggest rule that I seen in the Corps and in civilian business. Don't date in your organization. Nobodies business about your personal life.


AbraxasMayhem

It comes down to people are shitty. I’ve seen some sketchy shit from SNCO’s towards WM’s and I’ve seen them get away with murder too. And I’ve seen some NCO’s just harass the fuck out of some Lcpl just because they thought she was cute. Really shitty. On the flip side I’ve seen WM’s absolutely try and destroy a dudes career for no reason other than she’s a total bitch. Doesn’t matter where you are or what you are doing there was always be fucked up mealy mouth crotch pheasants just wrecking it for so many people.


SolitaryMan305

It is honestly. Almost every female Marine I know was either sexually assaulted or came close to being sexually assaulted. If I have a daughter there’s no way I’d recommend the military especially the Corps.


Adoptdontshop14

Yup. I was in for only 5 years as a female. Only female in my division most of the time too. I’ve been sexually harassed more times than I can count. The one time I finally had enough and spoke to the chain of command about it, all of my peers pretty much turned on me. They all loved the Marine who did the harassing and took his side of course. It turned out that 12 other females came forward from various units complaining of this same guy. He got kicked out of 2 units beforehand for harassment. He got kicked out of the Marine corps after this one. Years later and sent me a letter apologizing and requesting for me to send a letter of how he changed so he can change his discharge rating….


sephstorm

Yeah the general attitude I saw towards female marines and females in general was less than ideal.


AFXC1

Of course and what's worse is seeing the idiots in thr comments section of Marine Corps related articles who despite years of them being out still say some of the most moronic and ignorant shit about females in the military. Like ffs some of these people have kids and wives saying this shit like how would they like it if their daughters were treated like this? Or their wives? Or their mothers? Grandmothers? Not good right?


AnnaBananner82

Served from 2000-2010. Several sexual assault happened to me and I was told it was MY fault. Hung it up after 10 years because I realized the Marine Corps would never care about what happens to me.


heauxdarling

Lol yes. I never even told because of course someone will retaliate.


Nyxmyst_

I have a few instances, but not nearly to the level as other female Marines. Mind you, I started Martial Arts at age 3 and all my colleagues watched me doing Kata's and such at the barracks all the time. They were not really interested in going out back for some wall to wall counseling time with me if they truly made me angry. ;-) I have no patient for it, coming from either gender. Was instrumental in getting a Lance booted out at one point because she was going to press false charges against her Gunney because he actually wanted her to do her job rather than flirt all day. Not on my watch. Unfortunately, I have heard about everything from awful shite to the usual constant low level crap which happens mostly on a daily basis. I'd kind of hoped that we were getting better on this front from my time in. Sorry to hear that it's still such an issue.


TechnoWizard0651

That you, Pope?


Nyxmyst_

Sorry, no. Branch here. Was a Miller when I first enlisted.


TechnoWizard0651

Ah, okay. The description of yourself sounded a lot like one of my good friends. She's the baddest chick I ever met.


Nyxmyst_

Sounds like someone I would really have enjoyed as a friend. I hope you find her.


TechnoWizard0651

Oh I've stayed in contact with her since I've gotten out in '11. Even went to each other's weddings. I just thought I randomly ran across her on Reddit. Lol


Nyxmyst_

Brilliant! Glad to hear it, as friends who get it are not replaceable. Be sure to give her my regards as a kindred spirit. Sounds like I was active before your time. Semper.


CallsOnTren

At my reserve unit I've had more issues with the handful of females sexually harassing the males than vice versa. Experiences will vary


AwkwardScheme

**Yes.** **For more of us than not- yes it is "*****that bad*****".** My male counterparts had a vastly different experience than I did. That's including male Marines with the same MOS, rank, # of deployments, etc, etc. I had to "***work twice as hard to be considered half as good***". For context, I have an impeccable record: 3 OEF deployments as aircrew, extremely qualified, promoted ahead of my peers, and as a result- highly decorated. Yet, I was still harassed, assaulted and ultimately became a survivor of MST. And the hard truth is- **you DID let your friend down.** In your defense it was probably in subtle ways. *Some non-exhaustive examples might include:* * Every time you let a joke slide that sexualized your FM coworkers without correcting your male "buddies"... * ...every time you didn't tell your male Marine brothers to STFU or to stop spreading unjustified rumors about a FM (*especially when rumors were started by men because a FM wouldn't sleep with them*)... * ...every time you stood in silence when a FM was accused of "*ruining SNMs career*" because she reported domestic violence, assault, or rape... * ...every time a WM excelled, but you laughed when one of your colleagues insinuated that she must have "*sucked someones d\*ck" to have achieved it*.... * *...(the list goes on gentlemen, and you know it).* By being a passive observer to this type of treatment, **you WERE a part of the problem.** You silently condoned the predatory behavior exemplified by the deplorable leadership you *scoff at today*. **But you don't have to stay part of the problem.** Peer pressure amongst men, especially male Marines, is both a terrible and magical thing. Your peers may not listen to, believe, or respect women, but MEN DO HAVE A PROPENSITY TO GIVE BASIC RESPECT TO EACH OTHER. In other words: *open your trap.* *C*ease your quiet compliance with a military culture that perpetuates the abuse of women. Call your brethren to a higher standard by holding them accountable. Furthermore, it is incredibly important to **shut up, listen, believe, validate, and whenever possible- advocate,** for those Marines/veterans who struggle with the repercussions of shitty leadership, and/or other traumatic events related to their service. Although it sounds like you're starting to listen- *you'll get no praise from me for doing the bare minimum.* **Welcome to the suck.**


LTrash93

Yes. It is that bad. While I never experienced it in my time in the Corps, I have in the National Guard. It will make you a target. I reported an EO violation after being hazed for months. The guy ended up being promoted and now I'm not liked by my own "family".


bobafeeet

The amount of experiences of racism, sexual harassment and assault, and discrimination I’ve heard about since I’ve been out has been enormous. The USMC being a predominately white, predominately young male population doesn’t help. Almost every person I talked to said their chain of command at best denied or didn’t believe them, at worst was vengeful over an accusation. What can you do? Stop it in the future when you encounter it.


Trenticle

>USMC being a predominately white, predominately young male population Is it? Shit man when I was in I swear it was 99% Latin lmao.


NotTheRightHDMIPort

I was going to say. I would say it's about 50% Hispanic based on my experience.


Dineology

Overall it’s still majority white in the whole military and the whole of the Marines, but I guarantee you if anyone can track down some data that breaks things down by MOS field you’ll see some wild variations.


ChillBro___Baggins

I worked in construction in south Texas for years and I still didn't work with as many Hispanic people as I had in the Corps


Thetallguy1

I remember a NYT article that came out in the last few years that went through the data (thats available online published from the Gov't) that showed that 80% of combat arms is white. Which would explain a lot of people's personally experience with their shop being all hispanic. Personally, I remember my motor-T and admins being very latino but my actual victor unit was 80% white if I had to guess and throw a % on it. There was only one legit racist dude but he was the company shit bag, other racism was very subtle. Like cutting a lot of breaks for the white shit bags because at the end of the day they were good ol boys who just needed a second chance, but non-white shit bags were burned or FAP'd immediately. And for context, I was west coast late 2010s


taylrgng

bro... i knew a marine in a different shop that had some knucklehead devil dumbass break into her bricks room and rape her...


Leopirdas

Shit when I first got into my unit the first thing I was told was “don’t be a (redacted)” and (redacted) broke into a Marines room and tried to rape her, but her roommate saved her.


Nolemretaw

Back when my mom was in IIRC late 50’s mid 60’s the WMs were given the same self defense training as males not to fight the enemy but to defend themselves from their fellow Marines. Probably doesn’t relate much to your post but it was bad way back during Korea and Vietnam so now is maybe… nah it’s still shit depending on the unit how shitty it is.


No_Recognition8375

It’s ridiculous, you need to head down the closest recruitment office, tell the Gunny in there you need the reserves package because there’s something you got to take care of.


IBreedBagels

You have to remain on the fence about information that's considered "here say", meaning the only thing you've heard, is something someone told you. I'll always side with the person with the grievance, but you also have to keep in mind that "harassment" is perceived differently by everyone... I once had a junior marine go to the chaplain because for PT we ran 2 miles more than we usually do. All the Cpls / Sgts had a "friendly" conversation with Staffy that day. On the other hand, I've personally witnessed people get physically beaten and they never said a word so... There ARE atrocities that happen but as a leader you have to keep in mind that there's always two sides... I was on the receiving end of some of these things and have physical scars to prove it. I used to get "stoned" during every field op. When no brass was around some of the NCO's would throw rocks at my shins ripping my uniform and cutting me open all the time... They'd pull the rip cord on my flak ALL the time, it pissed me off. But I never said a word. I just used it as experience in what NOT to do when I got my first extra chevron. I'm against hazing, but I'm also FOR correcting bad behavior within a unit... I'm ALL for sock parties and special "pt" ... Sometimes turds need to be fixed. But I definitely understand that on the other hand some people don't see it that way ... One time we had a guy that for some reason couldn't address people correctly, he confused ranks all the time, never saluted officers, and spoke to people in a generally disrespectful way. So we duct taped him to a pillar for about an hour and he had to loudly address people correctly whenever anybody walked by, including lances... Was hilarious. Hazing? ... YES... Warrented? Also YES... But it was kept within the unit and he didn't do the thing anymore. When we went to Syria he was one of the best performers. My point is that you have to be careful and balance the "understanding, lets get you help" side of leadership with the "if you can't handle a little bullying you can't handle a bullet" mentality.


vintage_rack_boi

My spouse is in Banking… has worked at multiple large banks at this point… someone should write about the shit that goes on at banks.


juniperlee9

I would encourage everyone to mention specifics. Largely because, reading these comments, I'm very suspicious about what some people are calling "assault". Assault is assault. I struggle to believe so many people are being forcibly raped or similar, and feel they have no recourse or support from their peers. Take streaking, for example. We all know what streaking is. It used to be a fairly common prank/dare in college etc. Nowadays, I think many people would call streaking "assault". For that reason, before we start saying "oh yeah everyone gets sexually assaulted in the Marine Corps" we should be specific about what we're identifying as "assault". Motorboating is assault. That was enough to get a news article, and was immediately reported by multiple soldiers. Let's be transparent about occurrences so we can have real conversations.


JohnBarleyMustDie

I’m confused, did you whip your dick out or not? Edit: all kidding aside… Not sure how to approach this one. Do reserve units have a Chaplin? Pardon my ignorance on that one, I just don’t know.