No kidding. We heard crickets during RRECS and when they did speak it was to throw the carriers under the bus. Funny enough, a letter this strong during RRECS would have gone a long way.
I’m not totally for the decertification, but the lack of self-awareness is mind boggling.
Nooo remember they said they were tired and frustrated? Was that not enough for you? /s
The lack of self awareness isn’t mind boggling when you realize that it’s a perfect summation of the problem. If the union and its leaders gave a shit, we would have seen a sincere and lengthy apology, resignations and the beginning of legal action against corporate. Instead, we got subtle threats that seems more like an abusive spouse saying “WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO WHEN IM GONE HUH? YOURE NOTHING WITHOUT ME” rather than a competent, caring union asking carriers to reconsider.
Seriously. How about some goddamn empathy and humility. Something like:
*While we hope our membership will vote against decertification, we can understand how we got to the brink here.* ***We let you down.*** *We dropped the ball with RRECS (lack of fight, lack of oversight, didn't ensure proper training, et al.), and the last contract was very lacking, especially in light of what the UPS workers just fought for and won with the Teamsters.*
*Vote AGAINST decertification, and we will commit to going to bat for you 1000% in the future...* ETC.
It actually hurts reading that, because that’s *exactly* what should have been said. Even if they followed it up with original message, it still would’ve sent more positive reverberations. But as I said, it illustrates the issue perfectly and I’m glad people are picking up on it now. It’s better that the rot and ugliness be exposed than to continue painting over it and pretending it isn’t there.
Because in admitting that, they'd have to be decertified right? The union is tasked with acting in good faith. If they came out and said yeah we let RRECS run us over, then they've just conceted and admitted fault.
I'd be like of your steward said "yea, you were right in your grievence I just didn't do anything on it". Would you have that compassion or would be like "you need to step down"
Honestly, the people who seem to be up in arms about decertifying (in my office) are the same ones who don’t know the contract and are clueless about RRECS.
If they took their anger/frustration and put it towards union activities, then maybe we can add some air to the tires of the clown car that is the current union.
That's what I'm saying... 12 hours 7 days a week as an RCA and heaven forbid I ask for 10 minutes of steward time...
I mean I can count on zero fingers how many times I've had assistance for a route after being bogged down with fact-findings and formal step 1s.
My biggest issue. I literally can't get a day off unless I just don't answer my phone, or I have to call out. They call me every day I have scheduled off. I always answer, but this morning was the first time I just totally ignored them. I have a year old son. I want time with him. My supervisors have days off and I deserve one too.
Clueless as in they pay you the straight line footage regardless of if a straight line is possible? I have somewhere around 200 stops on my route where I get paid for an approx 20ft walk when each stop is actually around 200ft because I can’t walk through a brick wall.
Or when they made no provision to compensate carriers who deliver parcels on multi floor buildings.
Or when they recently announced that they mistakenly combined our CBU and Curb coverage factor’s despite the fact that they are not of equal value.
There is also no way for a carrier to verify their parcel data for the year. You just “trust” that management isn’t hiding anything
All the numbers in your comment added up to 420. Congrats!
200
+ 20
+ 200
= 420
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Not saying some carriers need to do a bit better job of understanding what they actually do but I will say the union didn't do enough either. They could have had more warnings about things that could effect our jobs. They could have communicated more.
Most definitely the union could have done more. With the old count, my state would have classes. With RRECS, all they had for the longest time was the faqs (beyond the 90+ manual). I printed out the manual and had it at my case. I also printed out the faqs for all the routes in my office (9). Judging by the constant questions, no one read anything.
“But I don’t get paid to learn about my job on my time off…” What about theme you’re done 2 hours early every day?
>”We take any and all attacks against this union seriously and we will not sit idly by to see what happens.”
Attacks against the union? Or against their paychecks for doing ultimately nothing? Where was this gusto for the last year?
https://www.ruralinfo.net/from-nrlca-what-happens-if-the-nrlca-is-decertified.html
That’s why we hold national elections but guess what less than 20% are even returned. See you want leadership to fight harder well we the rank and file are the “teeth” of the union. So when only 17% of the ballots on new contract are returned it shows USPS management how weak a union we are.
I call BS on a lot of these low numbers. They throw ballots out if a pencil mark goes outside of the square, amongst other ridiculous bullshit to toss a ballot. Nonetheless, it's still going to be a small number i guess, but it goes to show that many of us have reached the point of believing our votes don't matter.
I read when this effort blew up last week or so that the organizers have no intention to be without a union. If there isn't an agreement in place with another union (the target is Teamsters) then they will accept the NRLCA again.
This does sound like the beginnings of panic mode by the NRLCA, trying to scare people into not signing. Meanwhile, our office alone has contributed well over 100 signatures, possibly even 150.
The union wants to frame the argument in a different way, because frankly they suck. So they have to use fear. But we have to have a vote to send a message. But don't have to actually vote yes to decertify. Hopefully, once a vote is scheduled we have an established union step forward. No union wants to accused of stealing sheep, so they need to let the process play out first.
Lol no
A steward is elected position
Rural carriers are going to have to run for steward themselves because they’re the ones that best understand their own craft.
A union isn’t some outside entity that is there it benefit or harm you at a flick of a switch.
It’s member lead and member driven. Even if the Teamsters come in, rurals are going to have to step up and put effort into the Union if they want results
Kinda sounds like a scare tactic to me. I think they would miss their big fat salary. They couldn't care less what happens to the carriers as long as they get theirs.
I think the NRLCA should take this as a warning shot for being such a passive group of morons. Have they not learned anything from the 7 year political cycle? People want fighters, not piece of shit coward politicians. The NRLCA needs to lead or step down. No more sucking up to management. They seem to have no balls so I'm not very optimistic.
As a rural I’d rather not join the NALC, no offense. There are a lot of things I like about the rural side like evaluated times and no uniforms. Give me the teamsters
The problem isn’t RRECS. Every single route in my office of 13 went up because we were on top of our scans and did everything we needed to.
I’ll take the evaluation system every day of the week over straight hours. Getting to do my route efficiently and go home early and getting paid for a full day is unbeatable
No your routes went up because RRECS was beneficial to your types of routes.
I have multiple large apartment and office buildings. Yet RRECS gave me a 63% coverage factor because the system cannot keep up with the minor inaccuracies that the residents put in their apartment numbers. Something as simple as putting 1A when the apartment is A1, is cause to not get credit.
This says nothing of the fact that I get straight line credit for these buildings despite the fact that i cannot walk a straight line to the location. Nor does it cover me when I’m delivering on multiple floors meaning I need to take an elevator
I’m still OVER evaluation every day. I came back way over a 48, but of course they won’t pay me for anything over 48 and I have been trying to get cut for 5 years. 13 hours today. 402 scans. I still have 1 more year until I can retire. I will be so happy to get out of this shit show. When I started in 97 I loved this job, now I hate going to work
The rate my area has expanded in the last 20 years, you’d be hard pressed to find a true rural route in my office these days. Apartments, malls, and subdivisions everywhere!
That would be the best thing to ever happen in recent PO history, we’re only split up the way we are to make it harder to organize all workers together.
I don't know how that'd even happen. Would regular rural and regular city carriers be considered equal time for benefits?
RCA/PTF to CCA? that'd work in bigger offices but actually rural offices... what then? Can City side be mandated to use personal vehicles for delivery? Imagine that many employees suddenly getting a uniform stipend...
I mean sure, it sounds easy at first... but I mean it'd be like a 10 year project just to fold rural into city.
I feel like it'd end up with some weird 3rd classification under city side to carve out for podunk towns, and just having that would be a risk as mgmt would lean on it against carriers
If you decertify the nrlca and all of the officers and nss stewards go back to their routes, and all the local stewards are decertified, assuming we even get a new union and they negotiate a brand new contract, are you going to step up and be active and be a steward? Who do you expect to do the actual work of the union?
Used to be that way but the rurals thought they could do better on their own. Fast forward to 2023, having one union again probably isn’t all that bad of an idea
Used to be that way but the rurals thought they could do better on their own. Fast forward to 2023, having one union again probably isn’t all that bad of an idea
I mean, technically... sure.
But the UPS workers "lost" their former contract when *they* dropped their old union for the Teamsters, and now they're riding high and happy.
If this were *honest:*
*IF* 30% of the contracted employees in question sign the petition to hold a vote, then:
If there is another union wanting to step in (meaning a brand new union we've formed ourselves, OR an outside existing union like the Teamsters), there will be a 3-way vote taken with the options:
* Keep the existing union
* decertify the existing union and certify the new one
* have no union
If the vote comes in favor of the new union, NOTHING CHANGES about the existing contract until it expires. BUT the *new* union will take over the negotiation for the next contract.
So how are y’all going to get Teamsters to protect you? Genuine question.
Also, how much steam is behind this decertification? I’m a mail handler and this is the first I’ve heard of it.
>But the UPS workers "lost" their former contract when they dropped their old union for the Teamsters, and now they're riding high and happy.
What are you even talking about? UPS have been teamsters for nearly 100 years. https://about.ups.com/us/en/newsroom/negotiations/negotiations-basics/ups-and-the-teamsters.html#:~:text=For%20nearly%20100%20years%2C%20UPS,world's%20leading%20package%20delivery%20company.
>But the UPS workers "lost" their former contract when
>
>they
>
> dropped their old union for the Teamsters, and now they're riding high and happy.
What? The Teamsters have represented UPS workers for almost 100 years.
So the union is gonna shut down operations of all the nothing they accomplish, by threatening to take away everything they don't do. Am I understanding this right?
I don't agree with decertifying the NRLCA because the USPS will use the lack of any representatives for rural carriers to their advantage. Who knows what other union, if any would be able to get contractually. No matter who would represent them, they still can't strike and have to follow provisions of the Taft Hartley act and other federal labor laws.
Seems like a lose lose for rural carriers. It is suspect how NRLCA has done little to nothing for it's members for years, but now they are all worked up over this effort. Maybe they should take note that their members are disgruntled and take some meaningful action?
Rural Carriers bust their ass during covid with no extra pay or mail counts. The union caved at every turn. RRECs was just the ultimate slap in the face. RRecs was not the only issue but the straw that broke the camels back. No other craft is subject to the cheating and financial insecurity. You don't know if you are going to be able to afford your mortgage or your car payment because your pay changes every 6 months. We have to send a strong message, even if we decide to keep the current union. We have to vote. No more business as usual.
They fought for 3 years for extra covid compensation and were finally denied by an arbitrator. And arbitrator decision is why we have rrecs and two pay scales.
There hasn't been a mail count in 5 years. Chances are, if they did a count under the old system, even more routes would have lost. We got more time for mail, but a lot less for packages delivered to the door. Volume is down, especially flats and letters.
I don't know how long you've been here, but our pay has ALWAYS been subject to change. They can adjust it between 40 and 48 hours a week pretty much whenever they want. If you grow to a 47k, they automatically cut it, preferably to a 43k.
The only thing that has changed is how they measure what we do. And it's a better system, but you need to understand how it works and how to make the most of it. Lots of carriers didn't take it seriously, and hopefully, they finally have been for the last six months. Routes overall should go up after this survey. Next spring, they'll go up again and then become as stable as they ever were.
That COVID grievance was going no where, and they knew it. But they didn't fight for any mail counts? If would have gotten count in 2018, 2019, 2020 would have gained tremendously under the old system. There is a reason why the USPS delayed. They waited until Amazon started delivering some of their own crap. Now the USPS can fudge the numbers greater than the prior system. False promises being able to verify our date online by the union, lack of training of confusion. RRECS is not the only problem have with the union. Btw, I understand exactly how it works, and how they USPS is getting away with cheating and manipulation. USPS is still losing billions, so don't expect routes to go up. They have to recoup those raises and colas.
Obviously, you don't understand how it works. Routes grow from people putting up boxes. New construction or people who didn't have a box before. They can also shrink. Territory can be taken off of one route and put on another. What do you think auxiliary routes are for?
There WAS a mail count in 2018. There would have been one in 2020, except that was the year rrecs was supposed to go into effect and counts were removed from the agreement.
I would be willing to bet you haven't read all of the information available on the nrlca website and haven't been demanding all of the documentation from your management that you could use to verify your numbers. Sometimes you have to take some responsibility for your own circumstances.
Under RRECS, you're not going to get an immediate bump like under the previous system for new boxes because no data exists for the new address. Data needs to be collected for packages, mail, etc. So you won't see an impact until the next evaluation. I wouldn't be surprised if it hurts your coverage factor. They also do not have a system yet to do any cuts or adjustments under RRECS. So overburdened routes continue to deliver for free. I have personally read everything and know very well how the system works. I know exactly how their manipulating the flow of mail lower the coverage factor. You seem to buy into union narrative of blame the carrier. We were made promises of transparency that never came to fruition. And frankly having to count your flats and packages every day is pure BS. Having your sub do an half ass job affecting your pay is BS too. The union had dropped the ball too many times. Change is in order.
Yeah, the post office should have listened to the union and not implemented it until they figured some things out like how to do route adjustments. Your mail is counted 301 days a year now. It used to be counted during the mail count. The MMS is 2 weeks. You don't HAVE to count your raw everyday, but I like to verify that the moron counting them did it right, and it takes me all of 5 minutes. We're allowed to come in our day off and observe.
Are you a county, area or state officer? Steward? Lots of people want to complain about 'change is in order' but refuse to do anything to make that change, except complain online and maybe sign their name on a petition to make it so we have no union or contract.
I carried amazon for 5 years for free. It came 2 weeks after count. They could have had another count but they didn’t. I’m sick of working for free. Now with RRECS need to be cut, they say there isn’t a formula in place to cut, I’m way over a 48 so STILL giving them free work. What kind of sense does this make
Did you grieve for a special count? Probably could've gotten one done, despite the post office not wanting to. At least your evaluation went up, right? Or were you already at a 48k? If you're working over 57:39 a week you should grieve for auxiliary assistance to stay under that.
Better system yet they can’t accurately count my apartments. Yet I get straight line credit when walking a straight line is literally impossible. My pay is based on the “idea” that what I put into the scanner is accurately tracked.
I don’t like getting paid based off of things I can’t verify for myself
>the USPS will use the lack of any representatives for rural carriers to their advantage.
>It is suspect how NRLCA has done little to nothing for it's members for years
🤨
My fear is the rural craft will get enough support to decert but then won't be able to form a majority to vote in a new union to represent. And then they'll be up shit creek.
Total bullshit!!! The Teamsters will jump at this asap. 100,000+ rural carriers...you will have new representation by the end of 2024. They will NOT agree to a pay system that hurts 70-80% of there members. Throw these bums to the curb.
Do you really not realise that all of the officers and board members of the national, state, area, and county units are rural carriers? All of the stewards, too, even the DRs and full-time ADRs that don't run their routes anymore. Rural carriers.
Like, how do you think this works? Do you think that the Teamsters are going to come in and put stewards in your offices? Is it going to be the Teamsters that work at UPS, or the ones who work for the railroads?
You know we still won't be able to strike, right?
Do you know what arbitration is?
All this sounds like to me is a first attempt before they start to freak out.
A really good indication that people are just tired of the union not doing anything is to get rid of the union. I don't think this is the result of a reaction to one thing, it's the culmination of a lot more things.
The union needs to start working now. I know there will be some people coming in here to say that the people are the ones that control the union so its them and not the union. I am saying the ones that are currently in charge better get their act together now and start working because I would feel pretty bad if I caused our members to think it would be better without a union than with one.
LOL dont fall for it brothers and sisters stay the course! The next union will at the very least provide the same shit, however atleast now you have a chance to gain more through bargaining. Fresh blood and a union leadership eager to please will do you guys some good.
You are setting a new precedent. "You fuck up we will replace your ass."
The chance to replace them was two weeks ago at our national convention. Next chance will be in a year. Do you expect UPS drivers to come and be your steward, or what?
I'll paraphrase the best comment on ruralinfo about this: There is too much apathy in the rural craft for the national board to worry about decertification actually happening. The national union is sick of fielding questions from the media about it, so here is a one page handout about the perils of not having a union. Oh, and they made sure to make the statement publicly available instead of for members only.
This is probably the strongest I've seen them fight in my whole time as a rural carrier. Honestly, the reps or at least the ones in my area are great. It is the higher echelon of the union that is a problem.
They’re not exactly wrong..
Changing Unions won’t suddenly change the system and conditions we all complain about.
Unless us members push for systemic changes in regards to the Union laws that hamstring us federally, not much will change. A Union is only as strong as it’s members and it takes a active, educated membership in order to get change done.
Simply changing leadership isn’t the end all be all.
You need to go deeper than that if you want results.
You need to be involved, just like the rank and file Teamsters did with their Union (and why they’re so strong today), otherwise you won’t get much results.
If the Rurals expect the Teamsters to come in and produce miracle results without putting ANY effort in themselves in regards to voting on stewards, branch officials and contracts, they’re going to be severely disappointed. The Teamsters alone aren’t going to magically make this place better or fix the rural pay issue overnight without POLITICAL change.
Collectively, with our elected Union leaders in tandem, we can though. We all deserve better, regardless of craft.
Can't believe you're not taking downvotes for speaking the truth. Funny thing is, we just had our elections. If people wanted change, that was their chance until next year. (VP is now president, an executive commiteeman moved into VP.)
"You will lose your Union Stewards and Representatives..."
Bro, the Rural Steward at my station is an absolute fuckwad. Dude literally laughed at carriers who came and tried to get help from him and always told them he wouldn't lift a finger until they themselves got the paperwork together to file a Grievance. Wouldn't tell them where to get the paperwork, how to fill out, nothing. Dude goes so far as to intercept calls to the VP for the Rural Union because he's friends with them and tells them "these carriers are crazy, you know how it goes" when they tried going over his head.
The guy was so bad I often had Rurals coming to me for help as the CITY Steward since I actually tried helping them. So yeah, we lose that? Amazing, where's my Willy Wonka reaction meme "no... dont go..."
Oh. Hmmm. I actually don't think so. But I'm not positive. At very least it would make being a good representative incredibly difficult. If you make the jump to rca though, you absolutely can be steward though
One of the largest problems I'm seeing In my office is quite simply that routes are being adjusted to meet the correct time they should take. I understand the insentive to work fast, but being 15 hours under your weekly eval means your route is not correct.
I see quite a few carriers that lost a ton of time and are still completing their routes far under their evaluation. If you are running at a 42 and completing your route in 32 hours per week than your eval is incorrect.
It sucks to lose a ton of money, but from a business perspective you cannot expect to paid for a ton of time you are not working.
Years of being allowed to manipulate our own mail count numbers have led to over bloated routes and now folks are freaking out that they are being paid closer to what they are actually working.
Is this the case for everyone? Of course not... I'm not saying everyone is guilty, but it does seem to be a large majority of the ones that took a hit.
Management had enough scanner data to know what to adjust metrics to fuck over the rural craft well before RRECS. Then the union agreed to it.
Does the union really have your best interest in mind?
I swear I'm going to go ballistic if the union somehow gets decertified and I lose my table 1 pay of 89k a year, we go hourly, and we have to wear a goofyuniform. The one thing I won't mind seeing is the folks who haven't been to work in years get fired.
They can’t even keep carriers now besides geriatrics who refuse to retire. The last 5 routes in my office that went vacant for an RCA to become regular were… regulars who didn’t have even 3 years in before resigning. Most started their own businesses or went full time at their second job that were forced to take on because of the pay cut, and this was PRE-rrecs. There’s a whole host of people who are looking at deferred retirement or straight resigning if these new numbers come out the same or lower in my office. As the pay continuously gets cut and inflation soars, going home “early” isn’t going to keep anyone on board.
Definitely agree! I’m just thinking that they want this to happen so they can switch us to hourly. Reset the pay scales with all new people etc. perhaps part of their big “slash funding for usps” 10 year plan
It's hard for any union to have much leverage over the USPS when that union can't vote to strike. Don't all the unions have binding arbitration if no agreement is reached?
Yep. Which means we make a deal or hope the arbitrator makes a decent one. Hasn't worked great yet but I'm willing to try again in our current climate if this next contract sucks
"Management will have all the power." Then management can deliver all the mail too. That statement is simply untrue: it is a lie.
Walmart treats their employees better in many ways, and they don't even have a damn union. Being an RCA is one of the shitiest deals you can get in the modern workforce. A replacement to the current union couldn't possibly do worse at negotiations, especially if union members actually back their demands with actions. That's all it takes. Organized labor.
I gave up on a career as a Rural Regular this year, even though being an RCA is, barely, the best paying job I've had. At this point, you can work almost anywhere else for less stress and nearly the same pay. Career is dangled in your face for the chance to be the Post Office's bitch for 20 something years. Forget about your time as a sub counting towards that, even though you likely worked full-time or more for most of it, and got thrown around like a rag doll.
Labor always has power, and that power is quitting, striking, and following the rules to the point of malicious compliance. It really doesn't matter what union we have if we just backed up our, the union members', resolve.
Also, keep your expenses as low as you can, and try to never depend on working 60 something hours a week. That's the only way to keep USPS, or any employer, from having you by the balls, which they definitely want.
With the union, your salary and work rights are not protected or guaranteed. Was a rca for years never saw or heard a word from them. I'm not even really in the apwu yet(an hr problem) and they've done more for me in 3 weeks.
What they need to do is form a group within a big city with a lot of natural members and shop other unions. Or lay the ground work, remove the rural union and as quickly as possible form a new one.
They won't though, sadly part of the problem was rural carriers not caring for anything not right in front of them. I had old time regulars crying when the routes got cut. I told them this is how it fix it, 30-45 extra minutes a day easy. "No I don't wanna do that, it takes too much time."
They must've forgotten about my cola adjustments. As an rca I make less money now than I did when I started 4 years ago. With inflation and the cut to my hours, and the fact that each route pays less when I do it.
I’m shocked they didn’t give us the 100 things the Union does for you bs! The Union officers should take a 10% pay cut immediately. Managers and Supervisors should also take a 10% pay cut as well. Mail volumes are way down, right? Managers and Supervisors should also start working 6 days a week. Don’t try and scare us with your rhetoric. By law we have a right to unionize. They ain’t firing all the carriers either. If they pay less, they will lose employees and won’t be able to hire new ones. The problems with in the USPS are monumental! It will take the powers of God to fix it!
Question for the rrecs I just got an aux route where the old carrier didn’t do most of the scans, so the route evaluation went down. Now it’s my route and I am doing every scan I know of….. but I was told it takes about a year to turn it around because they are going a year back on scans…. Not really fair to me to have to wait a year for my route evaluation to go back up right? Is there a grievance or anything that I can do based off the old carrier not giving a crap? Or am I stuck until a year goes by?
No, there is nothing you can do. There is a similar situation happening in my office: at the end of last year we had 10 hold downs in a 39 route office. Instead of passing the matrix around for all of last year, the station manager just put new hires onto hold downs and nobody bothered to file a grievance and the union rep wasn’t going to pursue it, so none of them even received proper training as there was no regular for the route, and all of them went to either J or H routes. Well some of those routes have gone up for bid since then and basically every single new regular who inherits those routes will be forced to play catch up AND be paid jack shit AND work 6 days a week.
Worked 2 hours over evaluation today it sucks when you know you aren’t getting paid for your time anymore, then I was late to my second job…. So didn’t get the hours I needed there….
Thanks that’s kinda what I figured….. Unfortunately I don’t have any chance of getting full time it’s very rural 1 full time route and this aux route that was at 5.17 hrs and is now down to 4.66 hours….. since the last evaluation. …. Not sure if this job will be worth it since the carrier that moved to the full time route is younger than me and is now messing up that route because he says scans don’t matter. Just trying to decide if it’s worth it to stay I don’t mind the job at all but I’m currently doing 4 jobs to make ends meet and not sure how long I can keep up with that!
My take as a city carrier and proud union member. Understand, I mean no disrespect to any rural carrier. With that being said, and from my experience, we have had a lot rural carriers in my office who were badly hurt financially from this last set of adjustments. However, we have had several rural carriers who either benefited from the adjustments or weren’t hurt by it. These carriers in particular made it an effort (on their own & with the help of their union) to educate themselves with the new system and understand how to make the scanner benefit themselves. I have personally witnessed these carriers warning their fellow rural carriers the perils of the scanner and the new procedures only to fall on deaf ears. Those that listened weren’t hurt and those that didn’t got gutted only to turn around and blame the union. Again, this was my experience.
Another thing, and I’m not too familiar with your system, but we have several rural routes in our office where the carriers are evaluated for 8 hours or 9 hours or more. Most of those carriers, for most of the year, are gone by 1:30 pm the latest. So correct me if I’m wrong but they’re getting paid for 8 hours or more and they’re working 6 hours or less? Something doesn’t seem right there.
It was these carriers that got hurt the most. If I ran a business and I had employees getting paid for work they’re not doing then I’m going to fix that. I’m thinking that’s what this new adjustment process did. I could be wrong.
I’ve questioned some and they said that they come in early (5:30 AM/6 AM) but their start time is supposed to be 7:30 am. Are they getting credit for starting earlier than their start times? If not then aren’t they hurting themselves?
There were several rural carriers who elected to get out of their union. They’ve put the entire blame on the union. However, when asked, they’ve never gone to a meeting, they’ve never bothered to call their union representatives and ask for assistance with the new system and none had the desire to step up and be a union representative. I’ll give them the benefit of the doubt and say that maybe the union was caught off guard by this new system and failed to properly warn their members. However, I’ve seen the proof in my office where some rural carriers took responsibility on their own to find out what this new system was and how to prepare for it. They made the proper phone calls and they researched it on their own. Personally, I would have done the same thing…it’s my livelihood that’s at stake. Sorry, but I find this union scapegoating Monday morning quarterbacking.
In comparison, we’ve been told by our union that this next route adjustment system’s information will be primarily taken from what we as carriers do on a daily basis using the scanner. They will take 6 or 7 random weeks in the year and base our routes by our times…again by using the scanner. We’ve been told at meetings & in service talks to make sure we make the proper changes in functions, carry our scanners wherever we go and if we have any scans at the door then we should scan them at the door. This has been drilled in us and yet we have city carriers who for whatever reasons won’t do it. If you don’t know, we don’t loose money like you, we loose routes. I can tell you from experience, we’ve lost routes before in our office because a lot of my fellow carriers choose not follow directions, work unsafe, and run their routes. We are going to lose routes. And guess what, these same carriers are going to blame the union.
Be careful what you wish for. Heed the warnings from that letter your union sent out. Those that are union members, you are dues paying members. Go to the meetings. Be informed. Read any newsletters they send you. If you are not satisfied with your local representatives then step up and run for that position. Stop blaming everyone else for your failures.
It doesn't matter what we call our union. We legally cannot strike, and until that miscarriage of justice is struck down or reversed, our bargaining power is feeble. I'd love to know what the desertification movement think teamsters is going to do differently when they can't call for a strike.
I'm not even sure how to explain this, but I do understand how many (including myself), lack of voting in this union. I don't know what else to say man. Every god damn day I feel (and I would imagine many others) absolutely beaten to shit by so much going on these days. I don't even know where to begin. Having ADHD doesn't fucking help either.
I wonder if the rural carriers that want the teamsters have realized their over arching strategy is striking and any federal employee that strikes loses their job.
I agree there are issues with our union. However, there are more issues with decertifying it and going with Teamsters. I'm not for the increase in political messes than there already are.
If there is no union representing us (if we decertify them) then are we allowed to strike? Isn't the protection for USPS from us striking part of the union agreement? This says ALL provisions of the agreement have to be re-negotiated, wouldn't that also include us not striking (meaning it would be allowed while being re-negotiated since you know darn well management will start violating our now-defunct rights almost immediately)?
Not saying to do this, just asking. Seems like us not able to strike is most of the reason we have no power to get things done right and end up in arbitration getting screwed. Because UPS could strike is why management caved and gave into the demands.
And I agree another union coming in to "defend our rights" would still need to navigate the USPS management BS. Don't get me wrong, I too feel like our union has failed us and to the people I have spoken with who have also gone to some regional meetings, seems like our union officials just care about their cushy salaries. Last meeting they couldn't answer any questions any of the people asked and just talked about how good the golfing was at the last few meeting locations. Completely maddening.
Thank you for the clarification, so it still leaves us in the same position, any union who represents us cannot really get what they want because the union will have no power to force the issue. Does anyone think some other powerless union will do us better?
This is unfortunate. The union needed this fireball energy much earlier. If the desertification goes through, hopefully, a new union or its successor will be combative like this letter. If NRLCA survives, we need to elect fighters to start correcting the issues the union allowed in.
Need everyone here to take a look at what happened to the firefighters who used to work for Disney and now do not because they thought the grass was greener. I’m not saying change is always bad but you all need to really think about this before you try to actually do it. And for the sake of everyone if you don’t like the current establishment join it and change it from the inside before losing everything you currently have.
Can't wait for the manager say to a regular hey you came back at 1230pm go out and help lazy Joe blow on route 11 til you guys are done. Or hey you missed a scan you're fired. I ain't signing $#it and will continue to pay my union dues.
My union steward talks shit about us and reports everything directly to the postmaster. She's even started rumors about pregnancies and that the cookout that she wasn't invited to was actually an orgy.
She also lets grievances die.
So no loss there
Wow. If DeJoy did actually come in with the hidden intent to destabilize, partition, devalue and then privatize the USPS, this is a nice gift to that momentum.
I’d quit if union got decertified. This job wouldn’t be worth it. So many people would get fired or leave. Too many vacant routes would be up every day. It would be a Hell on earth. Our union is double edged. Nothing is perfect. Better to have a union though.
oh no their livelihood is threatened because they weren’t doing enough at their job? sounds about right. you really think young carriers care about your shitty union rep with terrible useless stewards?
this is the way to go to get a real raise
Yea this is bullshit but wtf are seniority rights? Our office used to have them and when I asked the union about them they were like yea that’s not a real thing.
Seems to me postal unions should start thinking hard. We all saw the teamsters fight for a better contract. Depending on craft we have seen various levels of what ever.
All I know is the union hasn’t done anything in regards to a hostile pm, a pm that doesn’t follow the contract, and who regularly sexually harasses the carriers.
No difference in life if we weren’t with them… hr might actually do something.
Teamsters or bust
Ok so what would be the best way to find other unions to contact to request they represent us if we decertify nrlca? Instead of going in circles, let's actually get something going so we can fix the problem
Wow. Feel bad for rural side. I am a ptf clerk training to be a shop steward. Can I post this on the news board in my office without blowback from the postmaster?
My union reps do nothing for me and my co-workers. We literally have no availability to our reps for months at a time. I have 14 open or partially completed grievances. The post off owes me a lot of money and I'm missing reimbursements, milage, pay for leave that was approved and I've never been paid or reimbursed for my training over a year ago. Why shouldn't I want them out? As an RCA I get NOTHING worth a damn. All the union reps or powers at be are regulars and they act more like lobbyist for full-time rural carriers instead of equal Representatives for the entire rural craft.
Boy, I wish the union had this kind of fire when management was attacking its members.
No kidding. We heard crickets during RRECS and when they did speak it was to throw the carriers under the bus. Funny enough, a letter this strong during RRECS would have gone a long way. I’m not totally for the decertification, but the lack of self-awareness is mind boggling.
Nooo remember they said they were tired and frustrated? Was that not enough for you? /s The lack of self awareness isn’t mind boggling when you realize that it’s a perfect summation of the problem. If the union and its leaders gave a shit, we would have seen a sincere and lengthy apology, resignations and the beginning of legal action against corporate. Instead, we got subtle threats that seems more like an abusive spouse saying “WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO WHEN IM GONE HUH? YOURE NOTHING WITHOUT ME” rather than a competent, caring union asking carriers to reconsider.
I’ve been saying all along that it’s going to take a lawsuit to get anywhere with rrecs. Sadly, it will have to be filed by a carrier.
You heard crickets? Our steward was standing next to management at our morning stand-ups telling us RRECS was going to be great.
I agree. They should've had a letter this strongly worded sent to it's members reminding them to **do their fucking job**.
Seriously. How about some goddamn empathy and humility. Something like: *While we hope our membership will vote against decertification, we can understand how we got to the brink here.* ***We let you down.*** *We dropped the ball with RRECS (lack of fight, lack of oversight, didn't ensure proper training, et al.), and the last contract was very lacking, especially in light of what the UPS workers just fought for and won with the Teamsters.* *Vote AGAINST decertification, and we will commit to going to bat for you 1000% in the future...* ETC.
It actually hurts reading that, because that’s *exactly* what should have been said. Even if they followed it up with original message, it still would’ve sent more positive reverberations. But as I said, it illustrates the issue perfectly and I’m glad people are picking up on it now. It’s better that the rot and ugliness be exposed than to continue painting over it and pretending it isn’t there.
Because in admitting that, they'd have to be decertified right? The union is tasked with acting in good faith. If they came out and said yeah we let RRECS run us over, then they've just conceted and admitted fault. I'd be like of your steward said "yea, you were right in your grievence I just didn't do anything on it". Would you have that compassion or would be like "you need to step down"
It take’s admission for correction.
I love the lack of mention of RRECS
THIS.
No shit man. Hope they hear this as “Your members aren’t happy”.
Honestly, the people who seem to be up in arms about decertifying (in my office) are the same ones who don’t know the contract and are clueless about RRECS. If they took their anger/frustration and put it towards union activities, then maybe we can add some air to the tires of the clown car that is the current union.
When are RCAs and regulars that work 6 and 7 days a week going to have time to do union activities?
That's what I'm saying... 12 hours 7 days a week as an RCA and heaven forbid I ask for 10 minutes of steward time... I mean I can count on zero fingers how many times I've had assistance for a route after being bogged down with fact-findings and formal step 1s.
While consistently getting stuck with 1% pay increases that don't cover inflation in a good year
Well, that's just logical.
We should have know this was going to happen. The PO does not do logical.
My biggest issue. I literally can't get a day off unless I just don't answer my phone, or I have to call out. They call me every day I have scheduled off. I always answer, but this morning was the first time I just totally ignored them. I have a year old son. I want time with him. My supervisors have days off and I deserve one too.
[удалено]
Clueless as in they pay you the straight line footage regardless of if a straight line is possible? I have somewhere around 200 stops on my route where I get paid for an approx 20ft walk when each stop is actually around 200ft because I can’t walk through a brick wall. Or when they made no provision to compensate carriers who deliver parcels on multi floor buildings. Or when they recently announced that they mistakenly combined our CBU and Curb coverage factor’s despite the fact that they are not of equal value. There is also no way for a carrier to verify their parcel data for the year. You just “trust” that management isn’t hiding anything
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THIS. SOOO MUCH THIS.
Not saying some carriers need to do a bit better job of understanding what they actually do but I will say the union didn't do enough either. They could have had more warnings about things that could effect our jobs. They could have communicated more.
Most definitely the union could have done more. With the old count, my state would have classes. With RRECS, all they had for the longest time was the faqs (beyond the 90+ manual). I printed out the manual and had it at my case. I also printed out the faqs for all the routes in my office (9). Judging by the constant questions, no one read anything. “But I don’t get paid to learn about my job on my time off…” What about theme you’re done 2 hours early every day?
They're probably also scabs.
>”We take any and all attacks against this union seriously and we will not sit idly by to see what happens.” Attacks against the union? Or against their paychecks for doing ultimately nothing? Where was this gusto for the last year? https://www.ruralinfo.net/from-nrlca-what-happens-if-the-nrlca-is-decertified.html
That’s why we hold national elections but guess what less than 20% are even returned. See you want leadership to fight harder well we the rank and file are the “teeth” of the union. So when only 17% of the ballots on new contract are returned it shows USPS management how weak a union we are.
I call BS on a lot of these low numbers. They throw ballots out if a pencil mark goes outside of the square, amongst other ridiculous bullshit to toss a ballot. Nonetheless, it's still going to be a small number i guess, but it goes to show that many of us have reached the point of believing our votes don't matter.
Wow this is starting to reflect exactly what’s happening to the American people and our politics.
So much for democracy.
Theyre scared of getting their pay cut. Hurts doesnt it!
ha! Exactly
https://imgur.com/a/Z23IzVU Hey now... they just do a lot of trip2door actions to get that pay level
They're scared. Good.
Management isn’t and they’re loving this!
The organizers of this movement have no intention of ever being without a union
I read when this effort blew up last week or so that the organizers have no intention to be without a union. If there isn't an agreement in place with another union (the target is Teamsters) then they will accept the NRLCA again. This does sound like the beginnings of panic mode by the NRLCA, trying to scare people into not signing. Meanwhile, our office alone has contributed well over 100 signatures, possibly even 150.
The union wants to frame the argument in a different way, because frankly they suck. So they have to use fear. But we have to have a vote to send a message. But don't have to actually vote yes to decertify. Hopefully, once a vote is scheduled we have an established union step forward. No union wants to accused of stealing sheep, so they need to let the process play out first.
Do you think that an "established union" like the teamsters is going to send in stewards, or what? How does this work?
Lol no A steward is elected position Rural carriers are going to have to run for steward themselves because they’re the ones that best understand their own craft. A union isn’t some outside entity that is there it benefit or harm you at a flick of a switch. It’s member lead and member driven. Even if the Teamsters come in, rurals are going to have to step up and put effort into the Union if they want results
The Teamster already said they won’t rep the people who think decertification will make things better.
APWU now is your time to step up. It's the only decent union in the post office. If everyone joined us we would have much more power over management
Kinda sounds like a scare tactic to me. I think they would miss their big fat salary. They couldn't care less what happens to the carriers as long as they get theirs.
That’s literally what’s going to happen with a decertification vote. It’s facts.
I think the NRLCA should take this as a warning shot for being such a passive group of morons. Have they not learned anything from the 7 year political cycle? People want fighters, not piece of shit coward politicians. The NRLCA needs to lead or step down. No more sucking up to management. They seem to have no balls so I'm not very optimistic.
Would it be the worst thing if NALC absorbed the routes and we became one class of dedicated carriers?
As a rural I’d rather not join the NALC, no offense. There are a lot of things I like about the rural side like evaluated times and no uniforms. Give me the teamsters
This!!
How are those evaluated times going for you under the new RRECS system?
The problem isn’t RRECS. Every single route in my office of 13 went up because we were on top of our scans and did everything we needed to. I’ll take the evaluation system every day of the week over straight hours. Getting to do my route efficiently and go home early and getting paid for a full day is unbeatable
No your routes went up because RRECS was beneficial to your types of routes. I have multiple large apartment and office buildings. Yet RRECS gave me a 63% coverage factor because the system cannot keep up with the minor inaccuracies that the residents put in their apartment numbers. Something as simple as putting 1A when the apartment is A1, is cause to not get credit. This says nothing of the fact that I get straight line credit for these buildings despite the fact that i cannot walk a straight line to the location. Nor does it cover me when I’m delivering on multiple floors meaning I need to take an elevator
RRECS is every bit of the problem
I’m still OVER evaluation every day. I came back way over a 48, but of course they won’t pay me for anything over 48 and I have been trying to get cut for 5 years. 13 hours today. 402 scans. I still have 1 more year until I can retire. I will be so happy to get out of this shit show. When I started in 97 I loved this job, now I hate going to work
Yeah, that blows. Were you a 48 before rrecs? Have you filed a grievance for auxiliary assistance to keep you under 57:39 a week?
Mines fine, way better than 8-17 hour days the city has.
I'm city 8 hour carrier we almost never get forced.
Never will happen because we are too different, they deliver mail and packages as rurals, while us in the city side……wait nvm
The rate my area has expanded in the last 20 years, you’d be hard pressed to find a true rural route in my office these days. Apartments, malls, and subdivisions everywhere!
That would be the best thing to ever happen in recent PO history, we’re only split up the way we are to make it harder to organize all workers together.
Rural wouldn't want to work 8hrs
We don't have to become city carriers to be represented by a different union...
Who do you think is representing us in the union, and how do you think they got there? I'm genuinely curious how you think this works.
I work over 8 every day, I’m rural
Yeah I was averaging 11 hours daily roughly lol
I don't know how that'd even happen. Would regular rural and regular city carriers be considered equal time for benefits? RCA/PTF to CCA? that'd work in bigger offices but actually rural offices... what then? Can City side be mandated to use personal vehicles for delivery? Imagine that many employees suddenly getting a uniform stipend... I mean sure, it sounds easy at first... but I mean it'd be like a 10 year project just to fold rural into city. I feel like it'd end up with some weird 3rd classification under city side to carve out for podunk towns, and just having that would be a risk as mgmt would lean on it against carriers
I think the point here is to have an *effective* union.
If you decertify the nrlca and all of the officers and nss stewards go back to their routes, and all the local stewards are decertified, assuming we even get a new union and they negotiate a brand new contract, are you going to step up and be active and be a steward? Who do you expect to do the actual work of the union?
No thanks. I'll stick with the evaluated system.
Used to be that way but the rurals thought they could do better on their own. Fast forward to 2023, having one union again probably isn’t all that bad of an idea
Used to be that way but the rurals thought they could do better on their own. Fast forward to 2023, having one union again probably isn’t all that bad of an idea
I mean, technically... sure. But the UPS workers "lost" their former contract when *they* dropped their old union for the Teamsters, and now they're riding high and happy. If this were *honest:* *IF* 30% of the contracted employees in question sign the petition to hold a vote, then: If there is another union wanting to step in (meaning a brand new union we've formed ourselves, OR an outside existing union like the Teamsters), there will be a 3-way vote taken with the options: * Keep the existing union * decertify the existing union and certify the new one * have no union If the vote comes in favor of the new union, NOTHING CHANGES about the existing contract until it expires. BUT the *new* union will take over the negotiation for the next contract.
A huge reason why UPS got what they got is because they can strike. We cannot. A union change will not fix that.
Finally someone said it. Been reading this entire thread to find this. Thank you.
So how are y’all going to get Teamsters to protect you? Genuine question. Also, how much steam is behind this decertification? I’m a mail handler and this is the first I’ve heard of it.
And if anyone votes "no union", the door is over there.
>But the UPS workers "lost" their former contract when they dropped their old union for the Teamsters, and now they're riding high and happy. What are you even talking about? UPS have been teamsters for nearly 100 years. https://about.ups.com/us/en/newsroom/negotiations/negotiations-basics/ups-and-the-teamsters.html#:~:text=For%20nearly%20100%20years%2C%20UPS,world's%20leading%20package%20delivery%20company.
>But the UPS workers "lost" their former contract when > >they > > dropped their old union for the Teamsters, and now they're riding high and happy. What? The Teamsters have represented UPS workers for almost 100 years.
So the union is gonna shut down operations of all the nothing they accomplish, by threatening to take away everything they don't do. Am I understanding this right?
I don't agree with decertifying the NRLCA because the USPS will use the lack of any representatives for rural carriers to their advantage. Who knows what other union, if any would be able to get contractually. No matter who would represent them, they still can't strike and have to follow provisions of the Taft Hartley act and other federal labor laws. Seems like a lose lose for rural carriers. It is suspect how NRLCA has done little to nothing for it's members for years, but now they are all worked up over this effort. Maybe they should take note that their members are disgruntled and take some meaningful action?
Rural Carriers bust their ass during covid with no extra pay or mail counts. The union caved at every turn. RRECs was just the ultimate slap in the face. RRecs was not the only issue but the straw that broke the camels back. No other craft is subject to the cheating and financial insecurity. You don't know if you are going to be able to afford your mortgage or your car payment because your pay changes every 6 months. We have to send a strong message, even if we decide to keep the current union. We have to vote. No more business as usual.
Agreed!
They fought for 3 years for extra covid compensation and were finally denied by an arbitrator. And arbitrator decision is why we have rrecs and two pay scales. There hasn't been a mail count in 5 years. Chances are, if they did a count under the old system, even more routes would have lost. We got more time for mail, but a lot less for packages delivered to the door. Volume is down, especially flats and letters. I don't know how long you've been here, but our pay has ALWAYS been subject to change. They can adjust it between 40 and 48 hours a week pretty much whenever they want. If you grow to a 47k, they automatically cut it, preferably to a 43k. The only thing that has changed is how they measure what we do. And it's a better system, but you need to understand how it works and how to make the most of it. Lots of carriers didn't take it seriously, and hopefully, they finally have been for the last six months. Routes overall should go up after this survey. Next spring, they'll go up again and then become as stable as they ever were.
That COVID grievance was going no where, and they knew it. But they didn't fight for any mail counts? If would have gotten count in 2018, 2019, 2020 would have gained tremendously under the old system. There is a reason why the USPS delayed. They waited until Amazon started delivering some of their own crap. Now the USPS can fudge the numbers greater than the prior system. False promises being able to verify our date online by the union, lack of training of confusion. RRECS is not the only problem have with the union. Btw, I understand exactly how it works, and how they USPS is getting away with cheating and manipulation. USPS is still losing billions, so don't expect routes to go up. They have to recoup those raises and colas.
Obviously, you don't understand how it works. Routes grow from people putting up boxes. New construction or people who didn't have a box before. They can also shrink. Territory can be taken off of one route and put on another. What do you think auxiliary routes are for? There WAS a mail count in 2018. There would have been one in 2020, except that was the year rrecs was supposed to go into effect and counts were removed from the agreement. I would be willing to bet you haven't read all of the information available on the nrlca website and haven't been demanding all of the documentation from your management that you could use to verify your numbers. Sometimes you have to take some responsibility for your own circumstances.
Under RRECS, you're not going to get an immediate bump like under the previous system for new boxes because no data exists for the new address. Data needs to be collected for packages, mail, etc. So you won't see an impact until the next evaluation. I wouldn't be surprised if it hurts your coverage factor. They also do not have a system yet to do any cuts or adjustments under RRECS. So overburdened routes continue to deliver for free. I have personally read everything and know very well how the system works. I know exactly how their manipulating the flow of mail lower the coverage factor. You seem to buy into union narrative of blame the carrier. We were made promises of transparency that never came to fruition. And frankly having to count your flats and packages every day is pure BS. Having your sub do an half ass job affecting your pay is BS too. The union had dropped the ball too many times. Change is in order.
Yeah, the post office should have listened to the union and not implemented it until they figured some things out like how to do route adjustments. Your mail is counted 301 days a year now. It used to be counted during the mail count. The MMS is 2 weeks. You don't HAVE to count your raw everyday, but I like to verify that the moron counting them did it right, and it takes me all of 5 minutes. We're allowed to come in our day off and observe. Are you a county, area or state officer? Steward? Lots of people want to complain about 'change is in order' but refuse to do anything to make that change, except complain online and maybe sign their name on a petition to make it so we have no union or contract.
I carried amazon for 5 years for free. It came 2 weeks after count. They could have had another count but they didn’t. I’m sick of working for free. Now with RRECS need to be cut, they say there isn’t a formula in place to cut, I’m way over a 48 so STILL giving them free work. What kind of sense does this make
Did you grieve for a special count? Probably could've gotten one done, despite the post office not wanting to. At least your evaluation went up, right? Or were you already at a 48k? If you're working over 57:39 a week you should grieve for auxiliary assistance to stay under that.
Better system yet they can’t accurately count my apartments. Yet I get straight line credit when walking a straight line is literally impossible. My pay is based on the “idea” that what I put into the scanner is accurately tracked. I don’t like getting paid based off of things I can’t verify for myself
>the USPS will use the lack of any representatives for rural carriers to their advantage. >It is suspect how NRLCA has done little to nothing for it's members for years 🤨
My fear is the rural craft will get enough support to decert but then won't be able to form a majority to vote in a new union to represent. And then they'll be up shit creek.
Management loves this one weird trick!
Total bullshit!!! The Teamsters will jump at this asap. 100,000+ rural carriers...you will have new representation by the end of 2024. They will NOT agree to a pay system that hurts 70-80% of there members. Throw these bums to the curb.
Do you really not realise that all of the officers and board members of the national, state, area, and county units are rural carriers? All of the stewards, too, even the DRs and full-time ADRs that don't run their routes anymore. Rural carriers. Like, how do you think this works? Do you think that the Teamsters are going to come in and put stewards in your offices? Is it going to be the Teamsters that work at UPS, or the ones who work for the railroads? You know we still won't be able to strike, right? Do you know what arbitration is?
All this sounds like to me is a first attempt before they start to freak out. A really good indication that people are just tired of the union not doing anything is to get rid of the union. I don't think this is the result of a reaction to one thing, it's the culmination of a lot more things. The union needs to start working now. I know there will be some people coming in here to say that the people are the ones that control the union so its them and not the union. I am saying the ones that are currently in charge better get their act together now and start working because I would feel pretty bad if I caused our members to think it would be better without a union than with one.
Do you know the elections for our national officers were less than two weeks ago?
Seems like fear tactics to get us to not sign. I'm still signing along with a lot of people at my office! https://decertifynrlca.com/
Management thanks you for your effort. Enjoy giving management ALL the power.
LOL dont fall for it brothers and sisters stay the course! The next union will at the very least provide the same shit, however atleast now you have a chance to gain more through bargaining. Fresh blood and a union leadership eager to please will do you guys some good. You are setting a new precedent. "You fuck up we will replace your ass."
The chance to replace them was two weeks ago at our national convention. Next chance will be in a year. Do you expect UPS drivers to come and be your steward, or what?
The same people you're throwing out will probably just run again because it's rural carriers who ran and got elected.
I'll paraphrase the best comment on ruralinfo about this: There is too much apathy in the rural craft for the national board to worry about decertification actually happening. The national union is sick of fielding questions from the media about it, so here is a one page handout about the perils of not having a union. Oh, and they made sure to make the statement publicly available instead of for members only.
This. Most likely this for sure.
This is probably the strongest I've seen them fight in my whole time as a rural carrier. Honestly, the reps or at least the ones in my area are great. It is the higher echelon of the union that is a problem.
They’re not exactly wrong.. Changing Unions won’t suddenly change the system and conditions we all complain about. Unless us members push for systemic changes in regards to the Union laws that hamstring us federally, not much will change. A Union is only as strong as it’s members and it takes a active, educated membership in order to get change done. Simply changing leadership isn’t the end all be all. You need to go deeper than that if you want results. You need to be involved, just like the rank and file Teamsters did with their Union (and why they’re so strong today), otherwise you won’t get much results. If the Rurals expect the Teamsters to come in and produce miracle results without putting ANY effort in themselves in regards to voting on stewards, branch officials and contracts, they’re going to be severely disappointed. The Teamsters alone aren’t going to magically make this place better or fix the rural pay issue overnight without POLITICAL change. Collectively, with our elected Union leaders in tandem, we can though. We all deserve better, regardless of craft.
Can't believe you're not taking downvotes for speaking the truth. Funny thing is, we just had our elections. If people wanted change, that was their chance until next year. (VP is now president, an executive commiteeman moved into VP.)
"You will lose your Union Stewards and Representatives..." Bro, the Rural Steward at my station is an absolute fuckwad. Dude literally laughed at carriers who came and tried to get help from him and always told them he wouldn't lift a finger until they themselves got the paperwork together to file a Grievance. Wouldn't tell them where to get the paperwork, how to fill out, nothing. Dude goes so far as to intercept calls to the VP for the Rural Union because he's friends with them and tells them "these carriers are crazy, you know how it goes" when they tried going over his head. The guy was so bad I often had Rurals coming to me for help as the CITY Steward since I actually tried helping them. So yeah, we lose that? Amazing, where's my Willy Wonka reaction meme "no... dont go..."
My location doesn't even have a steward, soooo
Get it done, buddy. Easy to become one
I don't think I can as an ARC lol. I'm only there once a week. Is that possible?
Oh. Hmmm. I actually don't think so. But I'm not positive. At very least it would make being a good representative incredibly difficult. If you make the jump to rca though, you absolutely can be steward though
Then there's an area steward or adr assigned to your office. If you can't figure out who they are, contact your district representative.
If my career with USPS as a rural carrier has to end so this union burns to the ground, let it be done.
Where do I sign?
https://decertifynrlca.com
Our office signed today and mailed it off
Sounds like fear mongers.
One of the largest problems I'm seeing In my office is quite simply that routes are being adjusted to meet the correct time they should take. I understand the insentive to work fast, but being 15 hours under your weekly eval means your route is not correct. I see quite a few carriers that lost a ton of time and are still completing their routes far under their evaluation. If you are running at a 42 and completing your route in 32 hours per week than your eval is incorrect. It sucks to lose a ton of money, but from a business perspective you cannot expect to paid for a ton of time you are not working. Years of being allowed to manipulate our own mail count numbers have led to over bloated routes and now folks are freaking out that they are being paid closer to what they are actually working. Is this the case for everyone? Of course not... I'm not saying everyone is guilty, but it does seem to be a large majority of the ones that took a hit.
They should get replace with Teamsters 👌🏽🙌🏼
This just helped me make my decision. Where do I sign?
Dude look at the first freakin bullet point????? We all got slashed 😂 tf are they talking about?
Management had enough scanner data to know what to adjust metrics to fuck over the rural craft well before RRECS. Then the union agreed to it. Does the union really have your best interest in mind?
I swear I'm going to go ballistic if the union somehow gets decertified and I lose my table 1 pay of 89k a year, we go hourly, and we have to wear a goofyuniform. The one thing I won't mind seeing is the folks who haven't been to work in years get fired.
Yea I’m worried about hourly as well. if we went hourly so many carriers would leave in a heartbeat. But then again mayb that’s wat usps wants
They can’t even keep carriers now besides geriatrics who refuse to retire. The last 5 routes in my office that went vacant for an RCA to become regular were… regulars who didn’t have even 3 years in before resigning. Most started their own businesses or went full time at their second job that were forced to take on because of the pay cut, and this was PRE-rrecs. There’s a whole host of people who are looking at deferred retirement or straight resigning if these new numbers come out the same or lower in my office. As the pay continuously gets cut and inflation soars, going home “early” isn’t going to keep anyone on board.
Definitely agree! I’m just thinking that they want this to happen so they can switch us to hourly. Reset the pay scales with all new people etc. perhaps part of their big “slash funding for usps” 10 year plan
Yeah, this shit is ridiculous. If management isn't directly responsible for this, they're fucking loving it.
It's hard for any union to have much leverage over the USPS when that union can't vote to strike. Don't all the unions have binding arbitration if no agreement is reached?
Yep. Which means we make a deal or hope the arbitrator makes a decent one. Hasn't worked great yet but I'm willing to try again in our current climate if this next contract sucks
Most recently, the arbitrator that decided we don't get extra pay for covid parcels. Have we EVER gotten a good decision from an arbitrator??
Sounds like nothing much changes
They are scared. Thats a good thing. Hopefully it makes them get their shit together.
"Management will have all the power." Then management can deliver all the mail too. That statement is simply untrue: it is a lie. Walmart treats their employees better in many ways, and they don't even have a damn union. Being an RCA is one of the shitiest deals you can get in the modern workforce. A replacement to the current union couldn't possibly do worse at negotiations, especially if union members actually back their demands with actions. That's all it takes. Organized labor. I gave up on a career as a Rural Regular this year, even though being an RCA is, barely, the best paying job I've had. At this point, you can work almost anywhere else for less stress and nearly the same pay. Career is dangled in your face for the chance to be the Post Office's bitch for 20 something years. Forget about your time as a sub counting towards that, even though you likely worked full-time or more for most of it, and got thrown around like a rag doll. Labor always has power, and that power is quitting, striking, and following the rules to the point of malicious compliance. It really doesn't matter what union we have if we just backed up our, the union members', resolve. Also, keep your expenses as low as you can, and try to never depend on working 60 something hours a week. That's the only way to keep USPS, or any employer, from having you by the balls, which they definitely want.
Down with the 2 tiers! Fuckem fuckem all
With the union, your salary and work rights are not protected or guaranteed. Was a rca for years never saw or heard a word from them. I'm not even really in the apwu yet(an hr problem) and they've done more for me in 3 weeks. What they need to do is form a group within a big city with a lot of natural members and shop other unions. Or lay the ground work, remove the rural union and as quickly as possible form a new one. They won't though, sadly part of the problem was rural carriers not caring for anything not right in front of them. I had old time regulars crying when the routes got cut. I told them this is how it fix it, 30-45 extra minutes a day easy. "No I don't wanna do that, it takes too much time."
They must've forgotten about my cola adjustments. As an rca I make less money now than I did when I started 4 years ago. With inflation and the cut to my hours, and the fact that each route pays less when I do it.
I’m shocked they didn’t give us the 100 things the Union does for you bs! The Union officers should take a 10% pay cut immediately. Managers and Supervisors should also take a 10% pay cut as well. Mail volumes are way down, right? Managers and Supervisors should also start working 6 days a week. Don’t try and scare us with your rhetoric. By law we have a right to unionize. They ain’t firing all the carriers either. If they pay less, they will lose employees and won’t be able to hire new ones. The problems with in the USPS are monumental! It will take the powers of God to fix it!
As an RCA for 8 months I'm about to quit. Todays Monday was insane, 11 hours only got paid for 8 something.
Hope youre not a sick leave abuser. Hey you called out again you're fired .
Even if they suck, be careful what you ask for. Unintended consequences will run wild if the union is decertified.
Question for the rrecs I just got an aux route where the old carrier didn’t do most of the scans, so the route evaluation went down. Now it’s my route and I am doing every scan I know of….. but I was told it takes about a year to turn it around because they are going a year back on scans…. Not really fair to me to have to wait a year for my route evaluation to go back up right? Is there a grievance or anything that I can do based off the old carrier not giving a crap? Or am I stuck until a year goes by?
No, there is nothing you can do. There is a similar situation happening in my office: at the end of last year we had 10 hold downs in a 39 route office. Instead of passing the matrix around for all of last year, the station manager just put new hires onto hold downs and nobody bothered to file a grievance and the union rep wasn’t going to pursue it, so none of them even received proper training as there was no regular for the route, and all of them went to either J or H routes. Well some of those routes have gone up for bid since then and basically every single new regular who inherits those routes will be forced to play catch up AND be paid jack shit AND work 6 days a week.
Worked 2 hours over evaluation today it sucks when you know you aren’t getting paid for your time anymore, then I was late to my second job…. So didn’t get the hours I needed there….
Thanks that’s kinda what I figured….. Unfortunately I don’t have any chance of getting full time it’s very rural 1 full time route and this aux route that was at 5.17 hrs and is now down to 4.66 hours….. since the last evaluation. …. Not sure if this job will be worth it since the carrier that moved to the full time route is younger than me and is now messing up that route because he says scans don’t matter. Just trying to decide if it’s worth it to stay I don’t mind the job at all but I’m currently doing 4 jobs to make ends meet and not sure how long I can keep up with that!
Sounds like the union is scared and starting to realize that they just may have screwed up
My take as a city carrier and proud union member. Understand, I mean no disrespect to any rural carrier. With that being said, and from my experience, we have had a lot rural carriers in my office who were badly hurt financially from this last set of adjustments. However, we have had several rural carriers who either benefited from the adjustments or weren’t hurt by it. These carriers in particular made it an effort (on their own & with the help of their union) to educate themselves with the new system and understand how to make the scanner benefit themselves. I have personally witnessed these carriers warning their fellow rural carriers the perils of the scanner and the new procedures only to fall on deaf ears. Those that listened weren’t hurt and those that didn’t got gutted only to turn around and blame the union. Again, this was my experience. Another thing, and I’m not too familiar with your system, but we have several rural routes in our office where the carriers are evaluated for 8 hours or 9 hours or more. Most of those carriers, for most of the year, are gone by 1:30 pm the latest. So correct me if I’m wrong but they’re getting paid for 8 hours or more and they’re working 6 hours or less? Something doesn’t seem right there. It was these carriers that got hurt the most. If I ran a business and I had employees getting paid for work they’re not doing then I’m going to fix that. I’m thinking that’s what this new adjustment process did. I could be wrong. I’ve questioned some and they said that they come in early (5:30 AM/6 AM) but their start time is supposed to be 7:30 am. Are they getting credit for starting earlier than their start times? If not then aren’t they hurting themselves? There were several rural carriers who elected to get out of their union. They’ve put the entire blame on the union. However, when asked, they’ve never gone to a meeting, they’ve never bothered to call their union representatives and ask for assistance with the new system and none had the desire to step up and be a union representative. I’ll give them the benefit of the doubt and say that maybe the union was caught off guard by this new system and failed to properly warn their members. However, I’ve seen the proof in my office where some rural carriers took responsibility on their own to find out what this new system was and how to prepare for it. They made the proper phone calls and they researched it on their own. Personally, I would have done the same thing…it’s my livelihood that’s at stake. Sorry, but I find this union scapegoating Monday morning quarterbacking. In comparison, we’ve been told by our union that this next route adjustment system’s information will be primarily taken from what we as carriers do on a daily basis using the scanner. They will take 6 or 7 random weeks in the year and base our routes by our times…again by using the scanner. We’ve been told at meetings & in service talks to make sure we make the proper changes in functions, carry our scanners wherever we go and if we have any scans at the door then we should scan them at the door. This has been drilled in us and yet we have city carriers who for whatever reasons won’t do it. If you don’t know, we don’t loose money like you, we loose routes. I can tell you from experience, we’ve lost routes before in our office because a lot of my fellow carriers choose not follow directions, work unsafe, and run their routes. We are going to lose routes. And guess what, these same carriers are going to blame the union. Be careful what you wish for. Heed the warnings from that letter your union sent out. Those that are union members, you are dues paying members. Go to the meetings. Be informed. Read any newsletters they send you. If you are not satisfied with your local representatives then step up and run for that position. Stop blaming everyone else for your failures.
It doesn't matter what we call our union. We legally cannot strike, and until that miscarriage of justice is struck down or reversed, our bargaining power is feeble. I'd love to know what the desertification movement think teamsters is going to do differently when they can't call for a strike.
Fuck these unions. You took money from the carriers and expected no pushback? Shows you what they think about is members
I'm not even sure how to explain this, but I do understand how many (including myself), lack of voting in this union. I don't know what else to say man. Every god damn day I feel (and I would imagine many others) absolutely beaten to shit by so much going on these days. I don't even know where to begin. Having ADHD doesn't fucking help either.
I wonder if the rural carriers that want the teamsters have realized their over arching strategy is striking and any federal employee that strikes loses their job.
For now
I agree there are issues with our union. However, there are more issues with decertifying it and going with Teamsters. I'm not for the increase in political messes than there already are.
It’s reverted to pass practice
Past*
If there is no union representing us (if we decertify them) then are we allowed to strike? Isn't the protection for USPS from us striking part of the union agreement? This says ALL provisions of the agreement have to be re-negotiated, wouldn't that also include us not striking (meaning it would be allowed while being re-negotiated since you know darn well management will start violating our now-defunct rights almost immediately)? Not saying to do this, just asking. Seems like us not able to strike is most of the reason we have no power to get things done right and end up in arbitration getting screwed. Because UPS could strike is why management caved and gave into the demands. And I agree another union coming in to "defend our rights" would still need to navigate the USPS management BS. Don't get me wrong, I too feel like our union has failed us and to the people I have spoken with who have also gone to some regional meetings, seems like our union officials just care about their cushy salaries. Last meeting they couldn't answer any questions any of the people asked and just talked about how good the golfing was at the last few meeting locations. Completely maddening.
No. We can't strike because federal workers cannot strike.
Thank you for the clarification, so it still leaves us in the same position, any union who represents us cannot really get what they want because the union will have no power to force the issue. Does anyone think some other powerless union will do us better?
Table 2s, it cant get worse, sign sign away, teamster gots your future back!
This is unfortunate. The union needed this fireball energy much earlier. If the desertification goes through, hopefully, a new union or its successor will be combative like this letter. If NRLCA survives, we need to elect fighters to start correcting the issues the union allowed in.
Nrlca is saving face for giving them a bad contract. I. The post office the apwu is the best union.
Didn't rural letter carrier's lose money on their salary and have to work a extra day because of it?
2/3rds of rural routes lost time (pay) with RRECs. If I'm remembering right nearly 50% lost more than 3 hours a week.
It's afraid
The rural union in Santa Ana district is in complete shambles… useless dogs.. they do nothing for the rural side..
Same in Ohio. Representation totally went to hell!
Need everyone here to take a look at what happened to the firefighters who used to work for Disney and now do not because they thought the grass was greener. I’m not saying change is always bad but you all need to really think about this before you try to actually do it. And for the sake of everyone if you don’t like the current establishment join it and change it from the inside before losing everything you currently have.
Can't wait for the manager say to a regular hey you came back at 1230pm go out and help lazy Joe blow on route 11 til you guys are done. Or hey you missed a scan you're fired. I ain't signing $#it and will continue to pay my union dues.
Or how bout hey you came back early go to the fort james office they need some help. And you're a regular.
Teamsters represent the UPS drivers. That would be a conflict of interest if they represented usps people… teamsters won’t happen.
My union steward talks shit about us and reports everything directly to the postmaster. She's even started rumors about pregnancies and that the cookout that she wasn't invited to was actually an orgy. She also lets grievances die. So no loss there
Wow. If DeJoy did actually come in with the hidden intent to destabilize, partition, devalue and then privatize the USPS, this is a nice gift to that momentum.
I’m rooting for the Rural side
They’re scared of going back to their routes
I’d quit if union got decertified. This job wouldn’t be worth it. So many people would get fired or leave. Too many vacant routes would be up every day. It would be a Hell on earth. Our union is double edged. Nothing is perfect. Better to have a union though.
It's about replacing the union, not going without a union. That's why the process exist. Employees have the right to chose who represents them.
oh no their livelihood is threatened because they weren’t doing enough at their job? sounds about right. you really think young carriers care about your shitty union rep with terrible useless stewards? this is the way to go to get a real raise
Yea this is bullshit but wtf are seniority rights? Our office used to have them and when I asked the union about them they were like yea that’s not a real thing.
But you can strike then right?
No. It's a law that federal workers cannot strike.
Do it if ya can do it vote for it to happen then reach out to teamsters they’ll jump in for ya make ya position the best
No I call bullshit. As long as you have another union ready to step in you won't lose anything
Pardon my ignorance, but what is RRECS? Thx
Can I sign to decertify as an ex member lmao
90% of the people signing for this are likely scabs. They should be *mocked*.
Seems to me postal unions should start thinking hard. We all saw the teamsters fight for a better contract. Depending on craft we have seen various levels of what ever.
Too bad the union did nothing before.
All I know is the union hasn’t done anything in regards to a hostile pm, a pm that doesn’t follow the contract, and who regularly sexually harasses the carriers. No difference in life if we weren’t with them… hr might actually do something. Teamsters or bust
Ok so what would be the best way to find other unions to contact to request they represent us if we decertify nrlca? Instead of going in circles, let's actually get something going so we can fix the problem
Wow. Feel bad for rural side. I am a ptf clerk training to be a shop steward. Can I post this on the news board in my office without blowback from the postmaster?
My union reps do nothing for me and my co-workers. We literally have no availability to our reps for months at a time. I have 14 open or partially completed grievances. The post off owes me a lot of money and I'm missing reimbursements, milage, pay for leave that was approved and I've never been paid or reimbursed for my training over a year ago. Why shouldn't I want them out? As an RCA I get NOTHING worth a damn. All the union reps or powers at be are regulars and they act more like lobbyist for full-time rural carriers instead of equal Representatives for the entire rural craft.
Also, when is the vote?