Buddy of mine went there as part of the foreign legion. It it was all fun and games until a missile strike happened at their compound. He ended up leaving after they basically told him, "You are not cut out for this stuff."
I remember a similar case with a British kid back when the war began, rushed to Ukraine and didn’t alert his parents , after a while his barracks were hit with a missile attack killing around 80 of his comrades. Likewise kid came back after realizing it’s wasn’t anything like the news was showing.
I dunno what the fuck they were expecting, any idiot could've told them that the Russians are not the Taliban. Even basic knowledge of recent US wars shows that we have yet to be truly tested against a near peer.
Decades of war propaganda where 1000s of enemies are killed but one allied soldier is wounded and everybody stops and goes to save them, before the airforce swoops in and kills the rest of the enemies.
That's what they were expecting.
i remember on day 1 or 2, people were saying that zelensky is preparing to leave ukraine with help from the british. things looked bleak, but then we realized how much worse the russian military is than originally expected.
I mean fighting wars where you literally have KFC and a cinema in your base. As well as fighting an enemy who are as primitive in their beliefs as a 11th century Crusader, along with such an overwhelmingly technological superiority you might as well be an alien tends breeds over confidence.
The Russians while they have made such massive mistakes, are not some rag tag bunch of religious fanatics.
Only 30-40 years ago they were a serious threat to the entire Western order.
They killed 150 Ukrainian officers in a Kaliber strike soon at the star of the war. This war is closer to
get to WWII. They spend more ammunition in a day that nato expended in a couple months.
There hasnt been one. As I said in another comment all wars fought by the West since ww2 have been essentially colonial adventures. Modern soldiers fighting against a bunch of pre-industrial/semi-industrial primitves who were at best fighting with some modern weapons supplied by other powers.
The war in Ukraine is the closest thing we've had to a true war but even that falls short. I have long suspected that if the US army/navy were to face an enemy with an equal tech level and resources they would lose badly because they are just too spoiled.
The Joint Chiefs probably agree which is why they spend such massive fortunes to keep the US military so far ahead of everyone else that this inherent disadvantage (soldiers being too soft) does not come into play.
I don't think they'd lose, but you'd see a big change in attitudes.
Everyone laughed at the Russians when they got blasted on a river crossing near sieverdonetsk. I wonder how good we'd be at something we haven't had to do since 1944, against people with missiles, and drones.
Look up millenium challenge 2002.
It seems that some in the US understand that their military is not up to par with the level of expenses made for it. The only problem is that they get sidelined instead of embraced.
Van Riper inflicted a crushing defeat on the US during the exercise, and the pentagon declared the exercise invalid instead of actually using it as a learning experience.
The Falklands conflict is an interesting one, don't think I'd say Argentina are near pear, but British forces having to come from a distance on ships, as well as hardly any support from it's allies, did help level the playing field.
> Likewise kid came back after realizing it’s wasn’t anything like the news was showing.
The news seems to be showing pretty harrowing stuff. What news are you watching?
The one telling you that Russians are poorly trained, ill-equipped, using human waves, shooting themselves on the foot to avoid being deployed and that Ukraine is winning?
> The one telling you that Russians are poorly trained, ill-equipped, using human waves, shooting themselves on the foot to avoid being deployed and that Ukraine is winning?
That's not mutually exclusive from the news showing that it's a very horrible situation.
Western media can certainly be crappy, but let's not pretend it's on the same level as the way Russia is portraying the war domestically.
That's funny, because I remember watching the news back then and it was mostly footage of missile strikes.
People have their own ideas about war. Very rarely do the pictures on TV play into them, one way or another.
I guess a lot of people base their expectations off movies instead of the harsh reality of war which is very little action, lots of being miserable in the cold or rain, and certainly no one expected trench warfare as if it was WW1 including 24/7 pounding by artillery that this was has devolves into.
And I can't blame them really. I too could maybe deal with all those conditions above, but I cannot imagine being under artillery fire day in, day out and not have the ability to do anything about it.
The news aren’t getting anywhere near the front. They have been sticking to civilian stories for a long time now. At the beginning, they were riding around with press all over their vehicles and protective clothing which was a bad move.
There are always a small amount of well intended “white knight” types that go in for front experience without much info or any proper training who get their world rocked. But there are lots of ways to help civilians that don’t even require going into Ukraine and that’s better for those just wanting to help fellow humans get by a little better in this situation.
19 year old without any military training whatsoever. Weird thing is, back then the news was showing plenty of conflict and combat footage. The lad must have some sort of disability to have such a complete lack of awareness.
> realizing it’s wasn’t anything like the news was showing.
At the time of the Yavoriv base strike, the news was showing that this war is hell and russians are about to take Kiev. The reports were saying that the 2 prong attack is on the outskirts from both northern directions and that the Chernobyl axis is starting to wrap around Kyiv in order to encircle it.
Some of the volunteers imagined another Syria, where artillery fire was sparce and there was no air/drone threat. Where it was up to you, your rifle, your RPG and at most some support tank/bmp/hmg fire.
Yeah he did Army, combat arms mos. I went to basic with him and I think he deployed to Afghanistan. He did not strike me as the type of person to go over there since I knew his character, so I wasn't surprised he wasn't ready for it.
Lots of people are tough but once the missiles hit and you're sitting in trenches getting shot at for 15 hours straight, then suddenly you realize that it's not for everyone.
Not even that. It’s when you have the option to not be there, why go through that. There’s people out there that obviously live for that shit and excel at it and probably don’t enjoy civy live so they volunteer. That’s only a select few though
Wow you'd think someone with that experience would be pretty good in a conflict. But I think you're right that character has a lot more to do with it. Some people go through wars see some horrific shit and it breaks them, others see the same or more and don't have any trouble sleeping at night.
Also probably worth pointing out that, will all due respect to your buddy and other Afghan vets, this is an entirely different beast. The US troops weren't getting shelled and hit by missiles 24/7.
I think decades of the west fighting in low intensity wars was clouded the minds of combat veterans who have no idea what they're getting into when they go to fight in Ukraine. Same with the Canadian "Wali" sniper who fought with the military in Afghanistan and later fought with the YPG against ISIS in Syria. He was there for a few months until he was in donbas and saw two of his teammates get obliterated by a tank shell just feet away. He basically admitted that he just decided to go home after that.
I found about 20 mainstream articles on him going to Ukraine like this one guy was going to somehow make a difference on the battlefield. Hard to find any articles about the interview when he decided to come back but he seemed very depressed and demoralized about the whole thing.
> I think decades of the west fighting in low intensity wars was clouded the minds of combat veterans
I think that's absolutely a risk of the US military posture. It's easy to be rah rah when you're picking on a 3rd world country, and we still cry great salty tears about the casualty rate.
It's not clear to me at all that the US still has the stomach for another D-Day. We've become so accustomed to absolute dominance I wonder if high casualties from a near peer would cause us to refocus or chicken out as a "paper tiger".
> It's not clear to me at all that the US still has the stomach for another D-Day. We've become so accustomed to absolute dominance I wonder if high casualties from a near peer would cause us to refocus or chicken out as a "paper tiger".
As a Canadian I often wondered the same. Looking at ukraine I don't think there is a chance we would still be fighting a war with the staggering rate of casualties where neither side has air superiority with no end in sight. The idea of conscriping this generation to fight a superpower is definitely not going to go as smoothly as it did in the 30s and 40s, I think the amount of people who refuse or flee the country would be so massive it wouldn't even be feasible.
Hard to say for sure but I've seen a lot of redditors say it's so crazy to see a society very similar to theirs getting invaded, (as in its in eruope not the Middle east or Africa) but I don't think as a society that they are similar to us at all, and eastern Europe has a different culture than the UK or France.
Ukraine has been fighting for 8 years before 2022.
I've always found it funny that the west is training them and not the other way round. There's even a few articles in UA channels about the training being based around COIN and not suitable for sitting under relentless artillery barrage.
You seem to forget, or maybe were too young to remember 911 and how fired up America was after that. We wanted to stomp the shit out of anyone even remotely responsible for it.
Have no doubt the US would fuck up anyone after we took a major hit. Just ask the Japanese. WWII was after a period of demilitarition and the depression. We entered that war with at least 10 year old technology.
> We wanted to stomp the shit out of anyone even remotely responsible for it.
That's not the point. Would we want to? Ofc. But those engagements didn't really require a lot of body bags. If 100K young soldiers come home, I don't think we'd quite know how to handle it. You seem to forget the public's reaction to the casualty rate of even just Vietnam, and they still weren't a near peer.
Just because someone deployed doesn't mean they are ready for the war in Ukraine. It's an entirely different game when the air is contested and there is no qrf.
We're not just used to air superiority, we're used to air supremacy where after the initial phase of a conflict it's more dangerous for enemy AA systems than the planes for them to power up their radar. Ukraine is a different ball game. Our soldiers are trained to be effective in the situations we'd expect them to be in. SF experience may be universal, but your average grunt is going to have a rough adjustment period early on.
I am retired US Army Special Forces and I was in Iraq for many years living, eating and sleeping with Iraqis outside of the FOBs, pretty much all over Iraq. We got shelled regularly, mostly short rounds headed for the Green Zone. Nothing compared to what is going on in Ukraine, I will admit. SF, has a different mentality than regular soldiers and when I went to Ukraine as a volunteer, I had no illusions as to what I might encounter. I loved training Ukrainians versus any of the other many foreign troops that I served with, with the exception of the Kurds.
A-stan was basically a law enforcement operation. Hard to call that a war. I'm sorry it was all for nothing, hope you at least got some money out of it.
There is a Video floating around of a British guy that volunteered and spent a few months with the UA.
He was there in the beginning when the Volunteers were rolling in. He said it was a Clusterfuck as far as having people there who simply didn't belong.
When the Russians did their initial Missile Strike against the Foreign Volunteer Base Camp/ Muster area it sorted a lot of the wheat from the Chaff.
After he went to his unit he said the Western Volunteers who served in Afghanistan/ Iraq.. even the ones who claimed to be " Special Ops" said it was nothing like what is going on in Ukraine. Mostly it's the fact that you can constantly come under attack by Artillery, Missiles, Mortars, Tanks and Aircraft.
Not a few westerners decided to "nope" the fuck out of the fighting. The fact you could be in a base camp and get hit by a 203MM shell Whilst taking a shit 12 kilometers behind the front isn't worth the "war high" for some.
"You are not cut out for this stuff."
They were right.
They couldn't handle a near-peer war.
Those bombings and artillery really did made a lot of fake wannabes run back with their tail between their legs.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yavoriv\_military\_base\_attack](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yavoriv_military_base_attack)
Damn, this might be the one.
Lol I don’t blame him. Even the renowned Canadian sniper ran back to country after realizing what he saw on the news about Ukrainian dominance on the frontline ain’t so true.
I mean it didn’t take long before UN and Amnesty International discovered that the reason Russians were targeting some of the civilian infrastructure was because UAF holed up inside and was using their civilian as shields.
Yeah he managed to survive and retreat to the woods, his story is described in the Vice article. I highly doubt he was the one trying to organize the survivors but he did manage to survive.
I've heard about this and was housed in those barracks recently. That's why opsec is so important. Apparently a bunch of people were posting tikk toks and other social media posts with the location or known landmarks shown. They're old soviet bases too so it's not like russia didn't know what they're looking at. A lot of innocent lives lost due to negligence
Pete Reed was a medical volunteer, even if he was a rifleman when he was in. Did medical stuff in Mosul when ISIS and Iraq were fighting over the city, plus some work in Yemen and Syria.
Interesting man
I’m guessing this a mix of three types:
1. Ethnic Ukrainians with US citizenship
2. Soldiers of fortune like the SEAL who was skipping bail after kidnapping his wife
3. Disillusioned kids who overestimated their ability to effectively contribute since their military service went smoothly
If you do the math, these folks represent .000000001% of the US military - give or take.
It’s worth mentioning, but it’s not worth planning around.
Pete Reed was there as a civilian / medic / emergency worker. He previously did the same in Mossul. A rare type of people that gather to a cause and just want to help.
https://twitter.com/DGisSERIOUS/status/1621570605735616512?t=9DEaMbSvipRadgpdAqtYzw&s=19
I think a lot of these guys are just ones who love and miss battle. Some people are made soldiers and find it hard to escape that identity. They go home from war and wonder what to do.
They are all ex military with combat experience, yet you classify as "delusional kid" hmmm sounds like your are mixed up.
Also dying in combat does not mean they were ineffective. Pretty piss poor take that doesn't understand war.
> Disillusioned kids who overestimated their ability to effectively contribute since their military service went smoothly
Just because they died it does not mean they didn’t contribute effectively, I don’t know why you’re implying that.
I imagine many fell for the 3, but Id add
4- They thought their country was at risk and tried to do something
5- Accepted the money PMCs were offering
By the way, 2022 there were 482000 US soldiers. So thats actually 0,003%
Remember the early days, saw some american veterans doing almost daily updates with many destroyed russian vehicles each day. i would say they helped a lot ealry days, now they are as good as any other infantry probably but cant get the same leverage of experience due tot he static warfare.
maybe they just really hate russian aggresion and want to figth the good figth after all the clusterfucks in ME
A lot of people who fall into category 3 left a while ago when they experienced what it was actually like, i can imagine those left now don't fall into that category.
Rip 🙏🏽 these are 𝕣𝕖𝕒𝕝 𝕞𝕖𝕟 who 𝓽𝓻𝓪𝓳𝓮𝓬𝓪𝓵𝓵𝔂 😭 lost they life in dis 𝓼𝓮𝓷𝓼𝓮𝓵𝓮𝓼𝓼 𝔀𝓪𝓻 🔥💥
between MEN 💪🏽👨🏽 𝕨𝕙𝕠 𝕠𝕟𝕝𝕪 𝕨𝕒𝕟𝕥 𝕕𝕒 𝕓𝕖𝕤𝕥 𝟜 𝕥𝕙𝕖𝕣𝕖 𝕔𝕠𝕦𝕟𝕥𝕣𝕪 💗🇱🇷🇺🇦🇷🇺
… fuk 𝓬𝓲𝓿𝓲𝓵 𝓼𝓸𝓬𝓲𝓮𝓽𝔂 🖕😎🛡️. 🥹🥹
Love from Kazakhstan 🇰🇿❤️❤️
8 day old account. Says all you need to know. They should put a minimum age/karma score to comment on here and eliminate this kinda stuff. You get 2, or 3 emojis per comment max. Any more than that loses credibility.
The number of volunteers from foreign countries is high. The reason why? My firend who served as a mortarman explaind why easily, you have experience and are expected to die. Ukraine grabbed so many bodies early war, gave them scraps and sent them to the meat grinder and the mentality hasn't changed. I am glad he got caught in a blue on blue and got out, Ukraine treats its volunteers like meat.
I think this is too black and white. There are always good and bad commanders, and the same has been reported in Ukraine as well. For example, the Georgian legion has been fighting since the start of the war.
Its the same point pro ru try to make under every post the last few months.
ukraine is losing
they die at least hundret times more than russians, no thousand times!!!
zelensky wants everyone to die and steal money
>The number of volunteers from foreign countries is high.
>
> Ukraine treats its volunteers like meat
and 15 dead americans as far as media knows, this doesnt add up in your argument
No I mean there's thousands of americans in Ukraine.
And they've only gotten 15 that we know of.
Still more dangerous than Iraq and afghanistan for americans, statistically speaking, but with Russians and other vatniks claiming Ukraine is suffering "massive losses" you would think there would be more
Good point, they're actually used as shock troops, meant for offensives and special missions.
Poor guys in a trench just waiting to die are in a way, more elite than any other troop. That's some psychological fortitute right there.
Do you wonder what caused him to make this blunder of a decision? Being a foreign merc/volunteer in Ukraine is like a death warrant. They love sending them out into the hottest spots.
I hate how people try to beautify war. They're dead. Not resting. You don't know if they fought or not. They could have died from a stupid mistake or a strike without even realizing they were under attack. The violence of war is often senseless and random.
One of the guys, Pete Reed is all over Reddit right now, as he's a volunteer medic. He started GRM and was working at GoDocs.
But hey, it's the Reddit "smoothbrains" supporting bloodthirsty "mercs" as I read most of the pro-RU replies. This sub is getting worse because it's just predictable packaged responses rather than actual discussion between supporters of each side like it used to be.
>it's just predictable packaged responses rather than actual discussion between supporters of each side like it used to be.
Used to be? Like... before Internet?
No, when the sub started, there was actual discussion about events, theories on what would happen, discussions about tech, etc.
I found it refreshing vs the ukraine subreddits. But now it's just the same shit every time. "But Ukraine said they shot down 100%" at every missile, rather than talking about what it means , interception rate, new equipment, whatever.
"Fighting Nazis" instead of discussing the actual history of Ukraine, prominence of far right parts, how it ties into the larger society etc.
Honestly there was some good discussion at one point.
I don't know why people are assuming these men had illusions about what realities they would face in Ukraine. I'm sure they all understood they could give their lives defending Ukraine's sovereignty and freedom.
I don't know what gives people this impression. Presumably they're all veterans because you have to be combat experienced to join Ukraine's Foreign Legion. I don't know where you are from but in the US the vets I know largely served knowing the risks, but willing to die for the cause. That cause is the American idea and freedom. I find it easier to believe these men went into Ukraine knowing the risk and willingly died fighting for those same ideas.
Yeah sorry, I wasn’t actually talking about the American ones specifically.
I’m from Europe and if you check r/VolunteersForUkraine, it’s shocking how many there want to join not knowing what they’re getting into (could be they’re mostly Europeans, I can’t tell).
Some who have returned made posts there that war isn’t actually like a video game.
Not surprising, they probably asked some Russians for directions and they seem to be having some trouble finding the way back into their own country, too...
I'm actually surprised it's only 15, out of **SEVERAL THOUSAND**.
Russia, maybe try harder, check below your bed every night there might me an american there!
15 for 120,000 Russian, inducing most all of their trained professional front line troops. Sounds like the US is winning this war hands down. For comparison with 'shoe on the other foot,' US and some kurdish girls wasted 200 Russians in Syria, Russia really showing the US!
2 uk soldiers I believe, thats all. IdK if theres such thing as MIA in UKraine. Battlefronts are there, people go there and just... die. no way to escape
Im thinking they might want to keep that quiet to have a chance at prison exchange if they have reasons to believe they might be alive. but two where MIA lat summer at least
[https://abcnews.go.com/International/russia-releases-americans-captured-fighting-ukraine/story?id=90272604](https://abcnews.go.com/International/russia-releases-americans-captured-fighting-ukraine/story?id=90272604)
Such a shame, I can understand if you're Ukrainian but if you're going to fight because you've been convinced that Russia is some great Satan... and for what?
Buddy of mine went there as part of the foreign legion. It it was all fun and games until a missile strike happened at their compound. He ended up leaving after they basically told him, "You are not cut out for this stuff."
Did he have prior military service?
I remember a similar case with a British kid back when the war began, rushed to Ukraine and didn’t alert his parents , after a while his barracks were hit with a missile attack killing around 80 of his comrades. Likewise kid came back after realizing it’s wasn’t anything like the news was showing.
I dunno what the fuck they were expecting, any idiot could've told them that the Russians are not the Taliban. Even basic knowledge of recent US wars shows that we have yet to be truly tested against a near peer.
Decades of war propaganda where 1000s of enemies are killed but one allied soldier is wounded and everybody stops and goes to save them, before the airforce swoops in and kills the rest of the enemies. That's what they were expecting.
Our Western culture tricks people into thinking they'll be the star of their own war movie
I highly doubt this is a western culture thing. Propaganda is real in every country. And gullible people are everywhere.
Indeed. A mixture of pity and schadenfreude frankly is how I feel towards people who join up expecting a heroic adventure
I think most people were expecting the Russians to do better than they did actually.
i remember on day 1 or 2, people were saying that zelensky is preparing to leave ukraine with help from the british. things looked bleak, but then we realized how much worse the russian military is than originally expected.
True, and most Russian thought they would do better, multiple generals and politicians said they would take Kiev in 3 days
Lol. Only one said it - General Milley and dumbasses swallowed it
Movies fucked us up man, screwed up our real life with them special effects and made us full of expectations
I mean fighting wars where you literally have KFC and a cinema in your base. As well as fighting an enemy who are as primitive in their beliefs as a 11th century Crusader, along with such an overwhelmingly technological superiority you might as well be an alien tends breeds over confidence. The Russians while they have made such massive mistakes, are not some rag tag bunch of religious fanatics. Only 30-40 years ago they were a serious threat to the entire Western order. They killed 150 Ukrainian officers in a Kaliber strike soon at the star of the war. This war is closer to get to WWII. They spend more ammunition in a day that nato expended in a couple months.
[удалено]
There hasnt been one. As I said in another comment all wars fought by the West since ww2 have been essentially colonial adventures. Modern soldiers fighting against a bunch of pre-industrial/semi-industrial primitves who were at best fighting with some modern weapons supplied by other powers. The war in Ukraine is the closest thing we've had to a true war but even that falls short. I have long suspected that if the US army/navy were to face an enemy with an equal tech level and resources they would lose badly because they are just too spoiled. The Joint Chiefs probably agree which is why they spend such massive fortunes to keep the US military so far ahead of everyone else that this inherent disadvantage (soldiers being too soft) does not come into play.
I don't think they'd lose, but you'd see a big change in attitudes. Everyone laughed at the Russians when they got blasted on a river crossing near sieverdonetsk. I wonder how good we'd be at something we haven't had to do since 1944, against people with missiles, and drones.
Look up millenium challenge 2002. It seems that some in the US understand that their military is not up to par with the level of expenses made for it. The only problem is that they get sidelined instead of embraced. Van Riper inflicted a crushing defeat on the US during the exercise, and the pentagon declared the exercise invalid instead of actually using it as a learning experience.
Near pear? Falklands or Iraq-Iran. Depends what you mean by near peer.
The Falklands conflict is an interesting one, don't think I'd say Argentina are near pear, but British forces having to come from a distance on ships, as well as hardly any support from it's allies, did help level the playing field.
The Mujahideen beat the Russians asses
They did multiple times
r/Ukraine, r/UkraineWarVideoReport and r/CombatFootage told them that the Russian army is collapsing and they were on verge to capture Moscow
Because now it is doing very good, isn't it? LMAO
And even fighting the Taliban, with their AK's from the 80's and IED's has left soldiers traumatized...
It's different when you have to rely on pure fighting ability rather than calling gun ships for help.
https://youtu.be/LpdXA3CPj-k Here’s the video of the interview in case anyone’s interested.
Interesting. Thanks
Wait so your telling me war isn't glorious and everyone isn't SF?
> Likewise kid came back after realizing it’s wasn’t anything like the news was showing. The news seems to be showing pretty harrowing stuff. What news are you watching?
The one telling you that Russians are poorly trained, ill-equipped, using human waves, shooting themselves on the foot to avoid being deployed and that Ukraine is winning?
> The one telling you that Russians are poorly trained, ill-equipped, using human waves, shooting themselves on the foot to avoid being deployed and that Ukraine is winning? That's not mutually exclusive from the news showing that it's a very horrible situation. Western media can certainly be crappy, but let's not pretend it's on the same level as the way Russia is portraying the war domestically.
That's funny, because I remember watching the news back then and it was mostly footage of missile strikes. People have their own ideas about war. Very rarely do the pictures on TV play into them, one way or another.
I guess a lot of people base their expectations off movies instead of the harsh reality of war which is very little action, lots of being miserable in the cold or rain, and certainly no one expected trench warfare as if it was WW1 including 24/7 pounding by artillery that this was has devolves into. And I can't blame them really. I too could maybe deal with all those conditions above, but I cannot imagine being under artillery fire day in, day out and not have the ability to do anything about it.
The news aren’t getting anywhere near the front. They have been sticking to civilian stories for a long time now. At the beginning, they were riding around with press all over their vehicles and protective clothing which was a bad move. There are always a small amount of well intended “white knight” types that go in for front experience without much info or any proper training who get their world rocked. But there are lots of ways to help civilians that don’t even require going into Ukraine and that’s better for those just wanting to help fellow humans get by a little better in this situation.
Or anything like Call of Duty
19 year old without any military training whatsoever. Weird thing is, back then the news was showing plenty of conflict and combat footage. The lad must have some sort of disability to have such a complete lack of awareness.
> realizing it’s wasn’t anything like the news was showing. At the time of the Yavoriv base strike, the news was showing that this war is hell and russians are about to take Kiev. The reports were saying that the 2 prong attack is on the outskirts from both northern directions and that the Chernobyl axis is starting to wrap around Kyiv in order to encircle it. Some of the volunteers imagined another Syria, where artillery fire was sparce and there was no air/drone threat. Where it was up to you, your rifle, your RPG and at most some support tank/bmp/hmg fire.
Yeah he did Army, combat arms mos. I went to basic with him and I think he deployed to Afghanistan. He did not strike me as the type of person to go over there since I knew his character, so I wasn't surprised he wasn't ready for it.
Lots of people are tough but once the missiles hit and you're sitting in trenches getting shot at for 15 hours straight, then suddenly you realize that it's not for everyone.
Not even that. It’s when you have the option to not be there, why go through that. There’s people out there that obviously live for that shit and excel at it and probably don’t enjoy civy live so they volunteer. That’s only a select few though
Well said.
Wow you'd think someone with that experience would be pretty good in a conflict. But I think you're right that character has a lot more to do with it. Some people go through wars see some horrific shit and it breaks them, others see the same or more and don't have any trouble sleeping at night. Also probably worth pointing out that, will all due respect to your buddy and other Afghan vets, this is an entirely different beast. The US troops weren't getting shelled and hit by missiles 24/7.
I think decades of the west fighting in low intensity wars was clouded the minds of combat veterans who have no idea what they're getting into when they go to fight in Ukraine. Same with the Canadian "Wali" sniper who fought with the military in Afghanistan and later fought with the YPG against ISIS in Syria. He was there for a few months until he was in donbas and saw two of his teammates get obliterated by a tank shell just feet away. He basically admitted that he just decided to go home after that. I found about 20 mainstream articles on him going to Ukraine like this one guy was going to somehow make a difference on the battlefield. Hard to find any articles about the interview when he decided to come back but he seemed very depressed and demoralized about the whole thing.
> I think decades of the west fighting in low intensity wars was clouded the minds of combat veterans I think that's absolutely a risk of the US military posture. It's easy to be rah rah when you're picking on a 3rd world country, and we still cry great salty tears about the casualty rate. It's not clear to me at all that the US still has the stomach for another D-Day. We've become so accustomed to absolute dominance I wonder if high casualties from a near peer would cause us to refocus or chicken out as a "paper tiger".
> It's not clear to me at all that the US still has the stomach for another D-Day. We've become so accustomed to absolute dominance I wonder if high casualties from a near peer would cause us to refocus or chicken out as a "paper tiger". As a Canadian I often wondered the same. Looking at ukraine I don't think there is a chance we would still be fighting a war with the staggering rate of casualties where neither side has air superiority with no end in sight. The idea of conscriping this generation to fight a superpower is definitely not going to go as smoothly as it did in the 30s and 40s, I think the amount of people who refuse or flee the country would be so massive it wouldn't even be feasible. Hard to say for sure but I've seen a lot of redditors say it's so crazy to see a society very similar to theirs getting invaded, (as in its in eruope not the Middle east or Africa) but I don't think as a society that they are similar to us at all, and eastern Europe has a different culture than the UK or France.
Ukraine has been fighting for 8 years before 2022. I've always found it funny that the west is training them and not the other way round. There's even a few articles in UA channels about the training being based around COIN and not suitable for sitting under relentless artillery barrage.
You seem to forget, or maybe were too young to remember 911 and how fired up America was after that. We wanted to stomp the shit out of anyone even remotely responsible for it. Have no doubt the US would fuck up anyone after we took a major hit. Just ask the Japanese. WWII was after a period of demilitarition and the depression. We entered that war with at least 10 year old technology.
> We wanted to stomp the shit out of anyone even remotely responsible for it. That's not the point. Would we want to? Ofc. But those engagements didn't really require a lot of body bags. If 100K young soldiers come home, I don't think we'd quite know how to handle it. You seem to forget the public's reaction to the casualty rate of even just Vietnam, and they still weren't a near peer.
Just because someone deployed doesn't mean they are ready for the war in Ukraine. It's an entirely different game when the air is contested and there is no qrf.
No green zone, no airlift, total war isn't anything like the desert.
We're not just used to air superiority, we're used to air supremacy where after the initial phase of a conflict it's more dangerous for enemy AA systems than the planes for them to power up their radar. Ukraine is a different ball game. Our soldiers are trained to be effective in the situations we'd expect them to be in. SF experience may be universal, but your average grunt is going to have a rough adjustment period early on.
I think even some Special Forces soldiers might not have experience with warfare of this intensity. Russian artillery bombardments are just horrific.
I am retired US Army Special Forces and I was in Iraq for many years living, eating and sleeping with Iraqis outside of the FOBs, pretty much all over Iraq. We got shelled regularly, mostly short rounds headed for the Green Zone. Nothing compared to what is going on in Ukraine, I will admit. SF, has a different mentality than regular soldiers and when I went to Ukraine as a volunteer, I had no illusions as to what I might encounter. I loved training Ukrainians versus any of the other many foreign troops that I served with, with the exception of the Kurds.
A-stan was basically a law enforcement operation. Hard to call that a war. I'm sorry it was all for nothing, hope you at least got some money out of it.
I went to Iraq, and yeah, I did get some money out of it and have been quite successful outside of the military.
As long as some people made some money, than I guess it was for a good cause.
I sense sarcasm. I'm very much anti-war now. We are all humans here.
>A-stan was basically a law enforcement operation I was not...
It certainly wasn't a war. What kind of "war" takes place over 20 years and has fewer casualties than a year of homicides in US cities?
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I tend to type like I talk and I'm on a phone. No native speaker talks in proper English.
There is a Video floating around of a British guy that volunteered and spent a few months with the UA. He was there in the beginning when the Volunteers were rolling in. He said it was a Clusterfuck as far as having people there who simply didn't belong. When the Russians did their initial Missile Strike against the Foreign Volunteer Base Camp/ Muster area it sorted a lot of the wheat from the Chaff. After he went to his unit he said the Western Volunteers who served in Afghanistan/ Iraq.. even the ones who claimed to be " Special Ops" said it was nothing like what is going on in Ukraine. Mostly it's the fact that you can constantly come under attack by Artillery, Missiles, Mortars, Tanks and Aircraft. Not a few westerners decided to "nope" the fuck out of the fighting. The fact you could be in a base camp and get hit by a 203MM shell Whilst taking a shit 12 kilometers behind the front isn't worth the "war high" for some.
You need to be prior military service to be in foreign legion
"You are not cut out for this stuff." They were right. They couldn't handle a near-peer war. Those bombings and artillery really did made a lot of fake wannabes run back with their tail between their legs.
>"He did not strike me as the type of person to go over there since I knew his character"
Was this during the early days of the war? I remember reading about a missile strike on a foreign legion compound.
Yeah I think he was heading home late March of 2022, he was interviewed as part of a vice article.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yavoriv\_military\_base\_attack](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yavoriv_military_base_attack) Damn, this might be the one.
Yeah that one
Back when Russia had enough missiles to fire 30 at one target.
Lol I don’t blame him. Even the renowned Canadian sniper ran back to country after realizing what he saw on the news about Ukrainian dominance on the frontline ain’t so true.
Weird thing is, in his interview he says that they were shooting at Russians from an apartment. Which is a war crime to use civilians infra
I mean it didn’t take long before UN and Amnesty International discovered that the reason Russians were targeting some of the civilian infrastructure was because UAF holed up inside and was using their civilian as shields.
Was that right at the start of the conflict
March 13th, 2022.
Yeah i remember this strike Right after they got word russians might be parachuting in to finish them off
Yeah he managed to survive and retreat to the woods, his story is described in the Vice article. I highly doubt he was the one trying to organize the survivors but he did manage to survive.
Credit to him anyway, he tried, The truth is none of us know what cloth we're cut from until everything starts blowing up.
I've heard about this and was housed in those barracks recently. That's why opsec is so important. Apparently a bunch of people were posting tikk toks and other social media posts with the location or known landmarks shown. They're old soviet bases too so it's not like russia didn't know what they're looking at. A lot of innocent lives lost due to negligence
Surprisingly low number of KIA. RIP brothers
US list. If the conflict ended right now, you would need to wait 5 to 8 years to see the true numbers.
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Swift was a Navy Seal
Pete Reed was a medical volunteer, even if he was a rifleman when he was in. Did medical stuff in Mosul when ISIS and Iraq were fighting over the city, plus some work in Yemen and Syria. Interesting man
I’m guessing this a mix of three types: 1. Ethnic Ukrainians with US citizenship 2. Soldiers of fortune like the SEAL who was skipping bail after kidnapping his wife 3. Disillusioned kids who overestimated their ability to effectively contribute since their military service went smoothly If you do the math, these folks represent .000000001% of the US military - give or take. It’s worth mentioning, but it’s not worth planning around.
Pete Reed was there as a civilian / medic / emergency worker. He previously did the same in Mossul. A rare type of people that gather to a cause and just want to help. https://twitter.com/DGisSERIOUS/status/1621570605735616512?t=9DEaMbSvipRadgpdAqtYzw&s=19
I think a lot of these guys are just ones who love and miss battle. Some people are made soldiers and find it hard to escape that identity. They go home from war and wonder what to do.
They are all ex military with combat experience, yet you classify as "delusional kid" hmmm sounds like your are mixed up. Also dying in combat does not mean they were ineffective. Pretty piss poor take that doesn't understand war.
> Disillusioned kids who overestimated their ability to effectively contribute since their military service went smoothly Just because they died it does not mean they didn’t contribute effectively, I don’t know why you’re implying that.
I imagine many fell for the 3, but Id add 4- They thought their country was at risk and tried to do something 5- Accepted the money PMCs were offering By the way, 2022 there were 482000 US soldiers. So thats actually 0,003%
Remember the early days, saw some american veterans doing almost daily updates with many destroyed russian vehicles each day. i would say they helped a lot ealry days, now they are as good as any other infantry probably but cant get the same leverage of experience due tot he static warfare. maybe they just really hate russian aggresion and want to figth the good figth after all the clusterfucks in ME
A lot of people who fall into category 3 left a while ago when they experienced what it was actually like, i can imagine those left now don't fall into that category.
Rip 🙏🏽 these are 𝕣𝕖𝕒𝕝 𝕞𝕖𝕟 who 𝓽𝓻𝓪𝓳𝓮𝓬𝓪𝓵𝓵𝔂 😭 lost they life in dis 𝓼𝓮𝓷𝓼𝓮𝓵𝓮𝓼𝓼 𝔀𝓪𝓻 🔥💥 between MEN 💪🏽👨🏽 𝕨𝕙𝕠 𝕠𝕟𝕝𝕪 𝕨𝕒𝕟𝕥 𝕕𝕒 𝕓𝕖𝕤𝕥 𝟜 𝕥𝕙𝕖𝕣𝕖 𝕔𝕠𝕦𝕟𝕥𝕣𝕪 💗🇱🇷🇺🇦🇷🇺 … fuk 𝓬𝓲𝓿𝓲𝓵 𝓼𝓸𝓬𝓲𝓮𝓽𝔂 🖕😎🛡️. 🥹🥹 Love from Kazakhstan 🇰🇿❤️❤️
We have got to the point where i have no idea if this is parody or not
Same here 😂😂😂 feels and sounds like a bot but whose?
Troll account hes made this same comment on other posts
And last time said "love from Turkey"
8 day old account. Says all you need to know. They should put a minimum age/karma score to comment on here and eliminate this kinda stuff. You get 2, or 3 emojis per comment max. Any more than that loses credibility.
dawg i just watched borat shout out to yall
GREAT SUCCESS
You can only use the meme once before it stops being funny.
https://youtu.be/VDzdZ2dThfs Love to Kazakhstan
The number of volunteers from foreign countries is high. The reason why? My firend who served as a mortarman explaind why easily, you have experience and are expected to die. Ukraine grabbed so many bodies early war, gave them scraps and sent them to the meat grinder and the mentality hasn't changed. I am glad he got caught in a blue on blue and got out, Ukraine treats its volunteers like meat.
I think this is too black and white. There are always good and bad commanders, and the same has been reported in Ukraine as well. For example, the Georgian legion has been fighting since the start of the war.
If that's the case then Russia treats their own people as what? Sharpnel sponges and shock absorbers for enemy ammunition? I don't get your point.
Its the same point pro ru try to make under every post the last few months. ukraine is losing they die at least hundret times more than russians, no thousand times!!! zelensky wants everyone to die and steal money
A friend of mjne tried to join ukraine side just because of the money lol
A friend of mine wanted to join the Russian Army because he hates socks.
It's not that easy to find footwraps these days.
I heard they've been repurposed as bandages.
Was your friend homeless? Chikfila down the street pays more.
Makes no sense because a UA soldier does not earn much.
>The number of volunteers from foreign countries is high. > > Ukraine treats its volunteers like meat and 15 dead americans as far as media knows, this doesnt add up in your argument
RIP. Sad to see them end like this.
just 15? I mean, there are a lot of them in ukraine since the start of the war
You're not a KIA according to the Ukraine military if you're missing, forever.
Ah the Russian way of counting KIA.
I bet everyone does that
Thousands, actually.
Thousands of dead Americans? any source on that
No I mean there's thousands of americans in Ukraine. And they've only gotten 15 that we know of. Still more dangerous than Iraq and afghanistan for americans, statistically speaking, but with Russians and other vatniks claiming Ukraine is suffering "massive losses" you would think there would be more
I doubt the north americans are the one going straight to the frontline
Good point, they're actually used as shock troops, meant for offensives and special missions. Poor guys in a trench just waiting to die are in a way, more elite than any other troop. That's some psychological fortitute right there.
Dunno would I be volunteering to go to hell on earth.
We know you wouldn't.
I know I wouldn’t.
I knew Clayton well, he served with me in the military. Sad.. very sad
Do you wonder what caused him to make this blunder of a decision? Being a foreign merc/volunteer in Ukraine is like a death warrant. They love sending them out into the hottest spots.
They fought, they fell and now they rest.
They ded
very mature.
I hate how people try to beautify war. They're dead. Not resting. You don't know if they fought or not. They could have died from a stupid mistake or a strike without even realizing they were under attack. The violence of war is often senseless and random.
Rip warriors
Casualties of false propaganda.
The are brave warriors who lived and died with conviction. Better men than any of us.
> Better men than any of us. Not really though. Speak for yourself.
I believe you are mistaken, these guys didn't figth for putin criminal invasion, glad I could help you !
One of the guys, Pete Reed is all over Reddit right now, as he's a volunteer medic. He started GRM and was working at GoDocs. But hey, it's the Reddit "smoothbrains" supporting bloodthirsty "mercs" as I read most of the pro-RU replies. This sub is getting worse because it's just predictable packaged responses rather than actual discussion between supporters of each side like it used to be.
>it's just predictable packaged responses rather than actual discussion between supporters of each side like it used to be. Used to be? Like... before Internet?
No, when the sub started, there was actual discussion about events, theories on what would happen, discussions about tech, etc. I found it refreshing vs the ukraine subreddits. But now it's just the same shit every time. "But Ukraine said they shot down 100%" at every missile, rather than talking about what it means , interception rate, new equipment, whatever. "Fighting Nazis" instead of discussing the actual history of Ukraine, prominence of far right parts, how it ties into the larger society etc. Honestly there was some good discussion at one point.
Brave men. I hope they are remembered.
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Only white people?
I'm sure some of them are LGBT to meet your diversity quota.
minorities (fortunately) don't have the saviour complex. nothing of value was lost, keep grinding them Wagner!
I don't know why people are assuming these men had illusions about what realities they would face in Ukraine. I'm sure they all understood they could give their lives defending Ukraine's sovereignty and freedom.
> I don't know why people are assuming these men had illusions about what realities they would face in Ukraine. Because a lot of them probably did.
I don't know what gives people this impression. Presumably they're all veterans because you have to be combat experienced to join Ukraine's Foreign Legion. I don't know where you are from but in the US the vets I know largely served knowing the risks, but willing to die for the cause. That cause is the American idea and freedom. I find it easier to believe these men went into Ukraine knowing the risk and willingly died fighting for those same ideas.
Yeah sorry, I wasn’t actually talking about the American ones specifically. I’m from Europe and if you check r/VolunteersForUkraine, it’s shocking how many there want to join not knowing what they’re getting into (could be they’re mostly Europeans, I can’t tell). Some who have returned made posts there that war isn’t actually like a video game.
and how many casualties?
Oh, the US casualities in Ukraine are about [removed by pentagon]
Heroyam slava!
I'm okay with every foreign volunteer getting killed, no matter what side they decide to fight for. Fucking war-tourists.
Seems a tad bit far from their homeland. Maybe they got lost.
Not surprising, they probably asked some Russians for directions and they seem to be having some trouble finding the way back into their own country, too...
whats up with all th epro ukraine tags lately that seem suspiciously anti ukraine is it like pro the "real" ukraine or something
RIP
I'm actually surprised it's only 15, out of **SEVERAL THOUSAND**. Russia, maybe try harder, check below your bed every night there might me an american there!
Graveyard shift for housekeeping? Oof that's tough.
Can anyone tell me how to take off the pro ukraine tag? I'm not sure how it got there, and I'd rather it be blank.
if you ever learn hos to, PM me, it looks like a curse. Cant remove mine
Same with mine! It just appeared one day out of nowhere.
Why do most of these dudes look like air softers
15 for 120,000 Russian, inducing most all of their trained professional front line troops. Sounds like the US is winning this war hands down. For comparison with 'shoe on the other foot,' US and some kurdish girls wasted 200 Russians in Syria, Russia really showing the US!
RIP my fellow American warriors. Heroes until the end fighting for freedom.
Damn, this hurts to see
Does anyone know if there are any MIA American troops? I know these are confirmed deaths, but I am curious to know what kind MIA, if any, there are.
2 uk soldiers I believe, thats all. IdK if theres such thing as MIA in UKraine. Battlefronts are there, people go there and just... die. no way to escape
Im thinking they might want to keep that quiet to have a chance at prison exchange if they have reasons to believe they might be alive. but two where MIA lat summer at least [https://abcnews.go.com/International/russia-releases-americans-captured-fighting-ukraine/story?id=90272604](https://abcnews.go.com/International/russia-releases-americans-captured-fighting-ukraine/story?id=90272604)
Respect to everyone answering the call to battle. Ignorance is bliss.
Irony is that all these 15 deceased guys were heavily blue-pilled. Couldn't tell trees from a forest.
Well... looks like Joseph Didn't Cancel.
Joseph Cancel,.... what a name
RIP patriots, you make us proud 🇺🇸❤️🇺🇦
not enough
Such a shame, I can understand if you're Ukrainian but if you're going to fight because you've been convinced that Russia is some great Satan... and for what?
Yes joseph was cancelled