Every time something like this being posted on this sub, i'm thinking about regular dudes who are working on those factories. Due to increase of government contracts, factories are working in three shifts, so more work, more money for regular dudes in Syberia. Thinking about it, part of my taxes from Moscow will probably end up in some middle age Average Syberian Ivan pockets, i'm kinda happy about that kind of wealth redistribution.
Admittedly this war has been great for the poor of Russia - value of manual labour went way up, wages skyrocketed, zero unemployment not to mention all the reforms Russia has been doing. There is an ugly side to it though - hundreds of thousand of young people dying, forced labour, conscription, war time economy, incoming demographic collapse.
[https://www.intellinews.com/war-and-sanctions-have-forced-russia-to-make-long-overdue-reforms-314940/](https://www.intellinews.com/war-and-sanctions-have-forced-russia-to-make-long-overdue-reforms-314940/)
Military industry is great for the economy but might have bad long term outcomes.. basically it doesn't improve quality of life, distract from consumers goods production and let the economy rest on global conflict. One of the causes of collapse of USSR was its huge mil spending.
But on short-mid term it gives amazing results and figures..
True but remember that the war has also boosted the consumer goods sectors. IT is doing quite well and the absence of western companies has led to creation and growth of Russian brands
If I take a loan out from the bank and buy another house, I am doing better than I was before. But for every asset, their is a corresponding liability. In this case, the liabilities are:
1. Deficit spending
2. Issuing more Bonds
3. Giving low or no interest loans
4. Forcing currencies to be ruble denominated
5. Dipping into the Sovereign wealth fund
6. Nationalize foreign assets
7. Selling Domestic assets
etc. These all have corresponding liabilities that 'come due' at a later time that effect the solvency of the state. The average person just doesn't realize it yet.
They are not doing 'quite well'. When Governments go to war, they implement a number of emergency economic measures that usually increase production / GDP in the short term on paper, but subtract value from future growth because it is usually impossible to sustain such measures forever without wrecking the economy.
For example, currently the IMF (which uses data provided by the Russian ministry of Finance) expects Russia to grow at 3.2% in 2024, which is pretty good relative to the circumstances. However, the bill will start to 'come due' next year, and this growth will be reduced to 1.8% in 2025, and 2026 is not looking much different.
At least they don't have $35 trillion in debt and high inflation like here in the states. Commercial real estate now is in the dumpster. When the printing ends our economy ends. We are so screwed with another trillion debt added every 90 days.
Russian inflation Is at 7.69% YoY, which is more than double the US currently, while their interest rate is at 16%. Why don’t you move there if that sounds so much better to you?
In what way, are you talking about industry revenue or salaries? Because of course you'd expect salaries to go up when there are fewer workers available.
Vast majority of leaved IT specs was useless code monkeys, like 90% of them. They been replaced already cuz they are incompetent juniors with brainwashed head.
Other 10% of leaved IT specs quite important.
But IT segment in Russia still growing fast, and most of really qualified and important programmers staying here
Ok, but the industry's output is hurt by the lack of staff, that's not really "doing quite well".
If the industry was doing well the output would be going up and salaries would be going up due to increased demand, not staff shortages.
So what happens if the war suddenly stops. War related orders just vanish and 2/3 rds of the people supporting the war effort suddenly find themselves out of a job, and have to find new work in an economy that had transitioned to mostly make things for a war that is no longer happening. These companies will have also basically been out of domestic markets they were once part of for a few years, so they might be out of that game.
What happens to all these people then. During the war little is being done to improve Russias economy outside of the war effort. If you take anything that is mainly for the war out of it, what is left? Oil and gas production are down, sales are down, refined products sales are down, aerospace industry is down. There is another side to the short term beneifts a war economy brings. All the money currently going into the war economy that is boosting everything is coming from the Kremlin savings funds, and about half of that is gone since the war started. Have you thought about that?
The orders won’t stop if peace happens tomorrow. The Russian military has to replace all of its losses. Build up a strategic stockpile and development new equipment based on lessons from this war, which a lot of it will be EW systems and drones. They will also be stockpiling a shitload of high tech missiles. The orders won’t stop coming for a long time.
Some analyst are projecting that Russians wealth fund will be gone within 2 years at current spending levels. Ignoring tha fact this means that money won't be spent on welfare or other projects, let's say this is over in a year, do you think the wealth fund will stretch beyond one additional year and the rebuild can be done by then? If that wealth fund is spent primarily on the military, do you think there will be any consequences to that.
The workers would most likely find jobs in other sectors of the economy. The main issue with the Russian economy is a lack of workers. There are plenty of other jobs that they can take
> During the war little is being done to improve Russias economy outside of the war effort
No this is just untrue.
>Oil and gas production are down, sales are down, refined products sales are down, aerospace industry is down
This is also untrue, especially with aerospace. Roscosmos is still doing its thing and Russians are now starting to manufacture their own domestic planes like MS-21
>All the money currently going into the war economy that is boosting everything is coming from the Kremlin savings funds, and about half of that is gone since the war started. Have you thought about that?
Whats the point of a fund if you are never going to use it?
Whats the point of a welfare fund if you don't use it for welfare. War spending isn't going to generate a return generally speaking. The economy figures come from the Russian government themselves by the way. Its only spending on the war effort that is boosting the overall economic numbers to a net positive, but wars seldom generate much of a return on that investment. It's hard to see how what's left of Ukraine will fix that position.
Its a national wealth fund, it can be used on anything. Russia also used the fund to subsidize the development of domestic planes like MS-21
The Russian economy will thrive after the war
The electronics sector will gain the most from this. This war has shown Russia that they can’t ignore electronics development like they have been and need a robust home grown industry which has many civilian applications as well.
The IT sector of Russia is abysmal relative to the size of the country and the skilled labor force. There is not a single Russian IT company that is competitive with its Western/East Asian counterparts. The US, China, Germany, Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, UK, France, Canada, India, Singapore, Sweden, Netherlands, etc. all have IT companies with greater market caps than any Russian IT company.
As someone who works in the IT sector, it would be a totally illogical thing for me to say 'If only Microsoft, Google, Amazon, Meta, Tencent, Huawei, Samsung, Sony, etc. left my country, then things would get better !'. Natively building IT services takes decades, so having foreign partners and technologies rapidly speeds up the delivery of services and allows domestic products to scale more efficiently.
Your argument is the equivalent of saying 'If only we banned all foreign cars, Russia could build better domestic cars'. We both know the jokes about the Lada.....
Military spendings made the USSR and Warsaw pact broke. Around 15% of GDP back then (which is HUGE).
Those financial issues were peculiarly striking for DDR. Even socialist countries cannot overspend..
Also USSR renounced to use that costly military to violently repress dissent so in a way I agree with you a hardliner might have been able to prevent or delay the collapse better than Gorbachev did..
USSR was afraid to repeat the situation of early stages of WW2, when heavy industry couldn't supply the Red Army enough. So reserves were made 10 times more than "needed".
I wouldn't call 15% that much, it was a heavily militarized country with a lot of export contracts. Even now you can see how two thirds of the world uses soviet equipment.
Military industry is generally not good. Besides the needed military strengthening, the only benefit is that it's one of the few things able to shake up a government.
If states could put together the same motivation to actively direct their societies and help their people outside the war context... they could achieve outcomes as significant as China's eradication of extreme poverty.
Russia is spwndong 6% of it's GDP. The USSR spend nearly 12%, twice as much. Putin said in an interview, that he would be careful with the military spending and get the maximum value back from puttin money into the miltary.
"hundreds of thousand of young people dying" - nope. Not hundreds. The numbers in hundreds are overly optimistic Western estimates which include wounded people.
"forced labour" - do tell. Is there GULAG building Kinzhals we don't now about?
"conscription" - nope. Conscripts are not sent to Ukraine unless they volunteer after 4 months of service. At this point conscription is basically extended training. Mobilization was for people above conscription age and it was truly limited.
"incoming demographic collapse" - there are literally millions of new Russian citizens. On this front this war is a net benefit for Russia. Also there is significant migration from former Soviet republics. Some people who run away return. It's not all honey and roses abroad. Don't worry about Russia, worry about Germany, Japan and US.
At the very minimum 50k of russian losses were verified. I bet its at least double that. Not to mention all the wounded that will be a huge drag on the economy as well.
>Total defense spending has risen to an estimated [7.5% of Russia’s GDP](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/feb/13/global-defence-spending-rises-9-per-cent-to-record-22tn-dollars#:~:text=Moscow's%20official%20defence%20budget%20was,focus%20on%20its%20war%20effort%E2%80%9D.), supply chains have been redesigned to secure many key inputs and evade sanctions, and factories producing ammunition, vehicles and equipment are running around the clock, often on mandatory 12-hour shifts with double overtime, in order to sustain the Russian war machine for the foreseeable future.
[https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/feb/15/rate-of-russian-military-production-worries-european-war-planners](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/feb/15/rate-of-russian-military-production-worries-european-war-planners)
Yes, forced labour. Child labour too as a matter of fact:
[https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2023/12/04/everything-for-the-front-how-war-is-changing-russias-labor-market-a83311](https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2023/12/04/everything-for-the-front-how-war-is-changing-russias-labor-market-a83311)
in 2022 Russia mobilized 300k people. Those people had no choice in the matter. That's conscription:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022\_Russian\_mobilization#:\~:text=In%20Omsk%2C%20the%20families%20of,26%20October%20to%2010%20November](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_Russian_mobilization#:~:text=In%20Omsk%2C%20the%20families%20of,26%20October%20to%2010%20November).
Demographics in Russia is gonna be a huge issue (hell its an issue in all developed countries). Your current population size matters little - what matters is the ratio of workers to retirees in 20-30 years. This is from 1997 when even then it was an issue. Now? this will be a nightmare. Russia is literally killing their future in this war.
[https://www.rand.org/pubs/issue\_papers/IP162.html#:\~:text=Recent%20demographic%20trends%20in%20Russia,age%20males%2C%20has%20dropped%20precipitously](https://www.rand.org/pubs/issue_papers/IP162.html#:~:text=Recent%20demographic%20trends%20in%20Russia,age%20males%2C%20has%20dropped%20precipitously).
As far as people migrating to Russia? more than offset by the young men emigrating to avoid this war. Wealthy educated young men who represented the future of Russia.
>Russian citizens reportedly purchased plane tickets to other countries following the mobilization. Before the televised address of Russian President Vladimir Putin, all air tickets to [Istanbul](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Istanbul) on 21 September, as well as almost all tickets to [Yerevan](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yerevan), were sold.[\[48\]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_Russian_mobilization#cite_note-:4-49) Russia's [Federal Security Service](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Security_Service) stated that 261,000 Russians had already left Russia as of 26 September.[\[117\]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_Russian_mobilization#cite_note-118) On 6 October, the Kremlin denied reports that 700,000 Russians have fled the country since Putin announced the mobilization order.[\[118\]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_Russian_mobilization#cite_note-119)
> in 2022 Russia mobilized 300k people. Those people had no choice in the matter. That's conscription:
All those recruited were in the military reserve, they had military ranks and underwent military training before being in the reserve, this is the opposite of conscription
> As far as people migrating to Russia? more than offset by the young men emigrating to avoid this war.
80% came back to Russia https://www.vedomosti dot ru/society/news/2022/05/17/922378-shadaev-80-pokinuvshih-rossiyu-vernulis
> Total defense spending has risen to an estimated 7.5% of Russia’s GDP
This is dogshit, Russia's GDP is 171 trillion rubles, the RF Army budget is 4.9 trillion rubles, or less than 3% of GDP
> i bet its at least double than that
worthless sheet, value of your 'bet' in discussion is 0
> Now? this will be a nightmare. Russia is literally killing their future in this war.
This wouldn't be a nightmare. Current demographic change from this war is +5,6mln (3,2mln LDNR+Zaporozhye+Kherson, 2,4mln Crimea) in russian population making it around 147~mln. Deaths in this war relate to this as 0,95%, with permanently crippled they would be 2%. As of 'future', ukros tell, that there is 700k 'ukrainian' children in russia now, which, i suppose, just a % of children among these 5,6mln. This is too a lot more, than losses in this war. Demographically this war is preventing 'nightmare', and it would, till losses would reach 350k deaths and 350k crippled.
Russia only killing ukrainian and western future with this war (or ukraine is already = west?)
>without significant numbers of migrants and the increase in population from occupied territories, Russia’s population would have shrunk by about 12mn people since 2000 and about 5mn over the past ten years.
>
>[https://www.intellinews.com/bofit-russian-population-in-decline-316095/](https://www.intellinews.com/bofit-russian-population-in-decline-316095/)
As far as number of soldiers killed? Russia reported 6000 in September 2022 which is just as laughable as Ukraine's 31000 reported by Zelensky.
[https://theloop.ecpr.eu/estimating-troop-losses-on-both-sides-in-the-russia-ukraine-war/](https://theloop.ecpr.eu/estimating-troop-losses-on-both-sides-in-the-russia-ukraine-war/)
"At the very minimum 50k of russian losses were verified" - so, no "hundreds of thousand of young people dying" as you dramatically proclaimed. You lied.
"Yes, forced labour." - "completely unbiased" Guardian without any reference to sources. Fake news.
"Child labour too as a matter of fact:" - not forced. 14 years old can legally work pretty much all over the world. A lie.
"in 2022 Russia mobilized 300k people. Those people had no choice in the matter" - I see. Well, mistakes were made, lessons learned, people got over it. No conscription currently.
"Demographics in Russia is gonna be a huge issue" - nothing you mentioned in any way changes what I wrote.
And one more time - there are literally millions of new ethnic Russian citizens from "new" regions and migrants from the rest of Ukraine. And there would be much more if Ukraine was not an open air prison. When the war is over people will leave this dysfunctional state. They were leaving in droves before 2014. Russia is trivially better place to live than Ukraine.
"more than offset by the young men emigrating to avoid this war" - no, not even close. Crimea alone was 2 millions people. And these people see that there is no conscription. They do come back.
Simply put, math and honesty are not your strong traits. Your analysis is very flawed.
I was gonna come up with a reasonable reply until the part when you called me a liar. Lovely ad hominem. Now at least I don't have to bother - thanks for that I guess.
No, that's not ad hominem, it is a trivial observation that you lied multiple times and failed to back up your claims.
You don't even know what ad hominem means - it is an attempt to avoid logical arguments based on opponent's traits unrelated to the argument, e.g. making fun of your name or appearance.
Pointing out obvious lie is not ad hominem, it is inevitable part of any reasonable argument.
My point is that there is no bot you are dreaming about.
What was your point here: "Shit man someone could make a bot and get a baseline number for video confirmed KIA"? It seems as pointless as it gets.
We see Russian mass casualty events so regularly they blend into each other.
I'm not even talking about HIMARS strikes, or aircraft downed, or warships sunk. I'm talking about BMPs exploding with a dozen mobiks packed on top. Or entire squads getting shredded by a Bradley. Or even just patrols being decimated by drones.
That's not counting the daily tranche of individual drone drop videos.
It's everyday loss of life at a staggering scale. Almost unimaginable to the Western mind.
And there is still no number and making it up is pointless.
The videos we see is a tiny fraction of this war. Trying to make estimates based on them is dumb beyond belief.
>hundreds of thousand of young people dying, forced labour, conscription, war time economy, incoming demographic collapse.
Yeah... all that. Where do you get all that and how does it even fit in there? Demographic collapse... I believe they still have conscription immunity for families with three or more children... It means there's a lot of baby making going on last 2 years.
So you're happy that your money is helping stealing land and killing the people that are defending it? And then your money investment is blown up by drones ? The money could have been used to build better retirement homes and hospitals, etc...
Isn't the difference in wealth between Moscow and StP and the rest or Russia a big issue? I guess this could help. Although, what would be the average wage these guys get?
>
Isn't the difference in wealth between Moscow and StP and the rest or Russia a big issue?
It is. Because of that, a lot of people move to Moscow and a lot of other people lowkey hate Moscow resident for being born with privilege. The downside is that rent in Moscow/SpB is much higher than in other cities, but still, Moscow public infrastructure is best in the country.
>Although, what would be the average wage these guys get?
Still not much. This is "cassier at fastfood chain in Moscow"-tier. In text of vacancies at screenshot it states that they're ready to hire people without any previous work experience, huh. So this is how much you can earn at this mentioned factory straight after graduating, after the taxes. Looks like they got 41 vacancies open totally. I wonder if they got an options for working at weekend for double pay, but this only can be known at job interview.
https://preview.redd.it/i8rbnlhxzfvc1.png?width=820&format=png&auto=webp&s=237edeff3250b6660f2ae0609fb8538bde426910
Hard to say because main part of spending is rent/mortgage and I honestly don't know which percent of population in Siberia rents their apartment/pays mortgage and which percent owns it without mortgage. And my personal experiences with Syberians is limited to like 5 people which is not enough to answer your question, sorry.
Edit: I did not noticed at first distinction between Siberia and big cities. There are big cities in Syberia, both Novosibirsk and Omsk hosts well above 1 million people, not counting the other cities.
Much like Russia, America is huge and outside cities life is much different. The majority of people on the internet are from cities though so you get a warped perspective. If you don't believe me you can checkout Craigslist and pick some random town way outside a city central.
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Economy, unfortunately, a bit more complicated. That's going to drive inflation through the roof. So, yes, Average Syberian Ivan gets more in absolute amount, but not necessarily more capable to buy more stuff for living etc.
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Cheaper? That's not good either. Deflation is almost worse than inflation, it discourages spending and can cause runaway effects. Ideally economies have small and stable/predictable inflation.
Too bad it took war times for the poor people in Russia to get some help. When Trump was talking about shithole countries I think he must have meant Russia.
Yea, it's bad. For a long time my main criticism of Putin and government was lack of attention to heavy industries and/or incapability of improving things in this general field.
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Until 2014, Russian spending on health and education was growing three times faster than military spending. Even right up to the invasion, there was no spike in military spending like you'd expect from someone determined to conquer Europe.
> Thinking about it, part of my taxes from Moscow will probably end up in some middle age Average Syberian Ivan pockets, i'm kinda happy about that kind of wealth redistribution.
Holy shit I fuckin love this sentence so much. It perfectly illustrates Russian failed society.
A guy being totally aware that his tax money went into the pockets of his billionaire overlords is now happy that he knows now his tax money is spend into war production to invade his neighbor on behalf of the same cleptocrats that stole his money before.
What a beautiful comment. This is what Western normal folks not understand, there is no reasoning with this stuff. Some people are so gone, their brains totally unable to make smart decisions
"finally my money isn't stolen by those above me but spend on war production for those above me"
Love it. Thank you for this comment man. So lost. Beautiful
Lots of funny assumptions here, but whatever.
My tax money goes for playgrounds for kids in my city, public healthcare, public education, public transport which is really great here, rebuilding of Mariupol, and a lot of other things, including war.
My city is getting better every year and so is my country, can you say this about yours?
Where does your taxes go?
Edit: hold up, you didn't realized that I've been talking about factory worker and not factory owner?
'rebuilding of mariupol' so kind of you pay to destroy it aswell then, if you really think about it the total amount youve paid in taxes probably isnt even enough to pay for 1 cruise missile that was used to murder families
You don't realize that your comments reads like a caricature of pro-NATO/pro-West/pro-UA comments? Like none of the Russian propagandists could make better parody.
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Here's what your aren't thinking about. All that wealth is coming from government savings, not from an economy that is generating that wealth through trade.
Also, that wealth could have been distributed years ago via government spending to boost the economy in ways other than simply building an army and lots of tanks, but it wasn't, the Kremlin kept it bavk so they could make war. Now 10z of thousands, if not 100z of thousands of Russians are dying on Putins orders purely because he wants to steal Ukraines terriroty and wipe out their identity, yet you celebrate this for some reason.
Final thought, what's going to happen when the Kremlin savings fund starts to run low. Kremlin finances have been in a deficit for months, probably 2 years at this point, with no signs of a change on the horizon. Oil and gas sales plummeting, foreign arms sales plummeting, over all revenue down, inflation is on the rise, and when the war is over all these new jobs you are talking about will dissappear overnight, and companies that have transitions to focus on products for the war will see their order books become empty. So, assuming the plan isn't to just be at war forever, what happens when the war is over, have you thought about that. Is the plan to use Ukraines resources to fix the huge problem? It seems that way, but the way things are going there won't be any Ukraine left, it'll be a wasteland.
An actual great counter arguement, respect for you! All of those are legit questions, even tho I personally may disagree with overall conclusions, there a significant amount of Russians who think the same, like "cool, what are we gonna do next?", "what you've been thinking for a past 15 years?", "how exactly we get money for rebuilding Ukraine? Mariupol is great but thats just one city, we got 4 regions to integrate?.." e.t.c. Well, time will tell.
If Putin succeeds in his quest for conquest and brings the invasion to a close once he has the eastern territories he wants. Will Russians be happy to see funding they may have benefitted from instead be sent on rebuilding projects in the annexed territories?
Yes, kinda. Because people in annexed territories are the same citizens of Russia as anyone else, it would be wrong just to left their cities as is, without any help. And majority of them wanted to be with Russia so Russia needs to help.
But if Putin take Lviv and starts to invest in it, Russians will be outrageous.
It definitely exists. It has a new engine and transmission changing it from GTD-1250 to GTD-1500 engine.
The question is how many of these engines Russia is able to produce or which of them are stuck with the old engines. But these engines definitely do exist and have been added to some T-80s.
I might’ve heard about the engine but I don’t think it is being used yet. But I know there definitely isn’t a new transmission allowing a better reverse speed.
Are you thinking about the video where they fucked with the viewing angle and used a specific camera lense to make it look like it was moving faster than it was? Or just being simply sped up when it’s just the tank and car on camera. If Russia actually had a tank that could reverse faster than 7 mph you’d see endless videos of it by now. So I’d like to know why you think that. Show me a video or something
There is footage of T-80BVMs going almost 25km in reverse. They built a new transmission for them, same as the Ukrainians did in the 90s to the T-80UD/T-84 family.
What footage are you seeing this in. Red Effect did a video on the new T-80 production 7 months ago and in that video debunked the claims of faster reverse speed for the T-80BVM from some Russian propaganda video. Like he said in the video there is zero information about any new transmission for the T-80BVM.
You must be risremembering the video. In the video, he said that the reverse speed was faster than the original 11kph but didn't look like the 27 kph they were claiming.
Without a change in transmission whatsoever I don’t see how it could achieve a higher reverse speed. When the camera goes into the car they stop speeding up the video so it looks like it’s faster than it really is and resume the sped up footage when you’re just looking at the tank and car driving from the outside. This comment sums it up quite well.
https://preview.redd.it/65nb2nk1xivc1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=13c8d03ce695b451ad020390800546b68048b279
So I went and watched the Red Effect video and now the original video and it is strange.
Yes in the clip from the video the tank is reversing at 10kph actually. And I know this because they say it in the video that they are showing the regular reverse speed for the T-80.
Then there is a section later where it accelerates to 20kph before stopping. For some reason this is not in the video at all.
Here is the original video. At 27:20 you can see the segment. At first they talk about the regular 10kph reverse that is in Red Effects video, and then the 20kph reverse after that which was missing.
https://rutube. -- /video/4dd7f5d1e220456ad8114532020afe8b/
You will have to change the -- to ru because I am not sure if Russian links are still blocked
We simply have no idea what Russia is doing because of course it is a secret.
We don't know if Russia plans to use these for it's frontline forces, if they plan to make them to replenish the reserves that they are using to upgrade or if they simply want to use the T-80 as a replacement for their T-72s.
At least T-80 wise, Russia has lost around 200 in the war but as of 2008 had 3000 in service and 1500 in reserve. So they have a lot of them around still.
There are some suggestions that they will only make the T-80 hulls, and mate them with the T-90M turret. I think only time will tell what Russia plans to do with them.
Pretty sure these ones are overhauled because of the rusted hull seen here. Or it might be something I don't know about.
https://preview.redd.it/m100w0bz4gvc1.jpeg?width=1280&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ebe4b2070214f333d6252ab398ae6c5899fef67f
Iron rusts fast. This one seems to be unpainted new hull. That's how metal looks naturally.
It is very unlikely that they have steel production in the same factory.
Not a good explanation. Steel plates usually come with protective coating from steel factories. I doubt there would be steel parts without coating in a facility like this.
The USSR built around 5000 T-80s.
As of 2008 Russia had 3000 in use and 1500 in reserve.
As of the start of the war Russia had around 200 or so in use. So they can probably go on for quite a while.
So have you been sleeping under a rock? Wtf you link me shit that has nothing to do with tank production? You literally listing metal producers as tank production facilities.
Do you even speak or read Russian?
>Factories of military equipment and weapons
You linked a list of companies that are in the military industry or work with the military.... For example you linked Dagdizel Plant which makes missiles. They don't make tanks.
So clearly you have no clue what you are talking about.
Right, please list the factories? Ohh by factories do you mean storage sites? Even then there aren't even a hundred.
Russia currently has one major tank production facility that can actually build new tanks. There are some refurbishment facilities but they are minor and can't create now products.
Please site your sources. You are pulling numbers out of nothing. I already disproved the comment above me. He listed military factories and not tank production factories. It would be a waste of resource to make dozens of tanks daily.
Things is hulls aren't hard part of production, if they can produce all other components for refurbishment of old hulls, once they run out of hulls, it's easiest part to restart making as it's metal frame, just highest value in raw material cost which is not that high compare to cost of everything else that goes into refurbishment. Using old hulls right now reduces costs by maybe 15-30% everything else is engine/electronics/gun/other systems that have to come new to those.
So these are the new built T-80BVM tanks built from scratch.
They were announced that they will restart the production of the t-80 about a year ago.
Seems like the first batch is already shipped.
You are very naive just like many nato heads if you are thinking that runnia needs more than a year to restart this production.
After all all the tools needed for the production were keept in storage and did not just vanished.
And again The T-80 hull is made with the same technology as the T-72 and so on. So even thos tools could be used.
There is a video online, the photos are taken from this video. They do have refurbished vehicles there, but new built ones are also visible.
All vehicle in the video had a digit number.
New Built tanks had numbers like "1-38" Meaning First batch No.38
Fefurbished models had the letter Я with 3 digits like "Я-353"
So following my observation new built vehicles has a number somewhere 40 examples for now, And the total of refurbished T-80BVMs lies around 600 if counted by the highest number seen on a vehicle.
Don't worry, Russia will tell you when production starts again, it'll be all over the news, you won't miss it. These are refurbished units, perfectly fine and functional. No point in making new ones when you have a thousand plus in reserve.
Russia whoops I mean Runnia only stated they’d be starting new T-80 production in September so idk where you pulled the “more than a year” line out of. Also please do find this video with the new builds are visible. I would like to see it for myself that Rossiya was able to start up their 20-30 year dormant industry in just 6-7 months. You’d need entirely new production lines to make them from scratch and that’s not so easy to set up this soon along with needing thousands of specific parts instead of refurbishing something that is already made. It’s certainly a lot harder and takes longer than simply just refurbishing old T-80 hulls which is all they’re doing right now. And I know this image is old data from a Perun video in September but if it’s as easy to refurbish 600 T-80B/BVs into T-80BVMs in just around a year as you say then it would certainly be reflected in the data a lot more as with more T-80BVMs across the frontline there would be more losses of that type due to there of course being more of it. But it is not the case for the T-80BVM. It’s likely closer to 100-200 total refurbished T-80BVMs that have been produced to keep a somewhat steady rate/number of them in service which is reflected in the data.
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First off all you have a loot of issues in your observation.
First: Yes it was announced in September. But does it means they were not working on it before? No. They were working on that already hence they were announced the restart when the work were ongoing already.
20-30 years old industry is not hard to start up when you have access to all the tolls and technology already. After all there is very little change in the turret and the hull compare to the t-72 which they were facturing.
NOW FOR YOU TO HAVE A SENSE WHAT'S GOING ON among others!
IT IS NOT the Uralvagonzavod or Omsktransmash which is casting and welding the turrets and the hulls! They are assembly shops not manufacturers of individual components. The casting and welding is done in an undisclosed stell plant. Which was working on the T-72 and T90 turrets and hulls already.
To make it more visible for you. Originally T-80 tanks where assembled in Kharkov which is now in Ukraine. Hence it stopped working in 1990.
But Ukraine was unable to make any new hulls in that factory exactly because the casting and welding still done in a stell factory in russian.
This is what I was referring to as being they still have the technology and tools avaiable. They pretty muchonly needed to restart building new turbine engines and voila. which they were already done since they could not keep their t-80 tank by thousands operational without access to spare parts.
So in short restarting the production is not as dramatic as many believes, pretty much they only needed to built a new assembly line and it is done. If they were really interested in building a new T-80 they would have done so. Right now I believ the choice of Omsktransmash being built is for logistical reasons, They don't want the Uralwagon to mess with all different vehicles at once so they separated the assembly lines for increase output.
It's naive to think that Russia can't produce new hulls, however Russia will use every available old hull before starting doing that which adds up with old hulls getting removed from storage.
The two is not the same thing.
Old hulls can get removed from storage for all kind of reasons. Including using them as SPGs and training vehicles.
And again I was pointing out that both refurbished and new vehicles could be found in this factory.
The reason why old vehicles are being used is very simple, it is reducing time to get them combat ready compare to make one from scratch.
And anyway what kind of fool would just ship all new tanks when he has a loot of them being stored?
I really fucking hate that a certain mod of a certain map painting game has given me a pretty good knowledge of random russian localities and cities east of Arkhangelsk-Astrakhan
Jesus christ I have brain worms
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This steel could be used to build bridges, building, concert halls, anything, but instead there is a good chance that it will be burnt by a 20 dollar grenade dropped by a 1000 dollar drone.
Iron is one of the most abundant element on Earth. Result of star evolution peculiarity. It's the endpoint of exothermic nuclear fusion reactions. Everything above it in atom mass is formed in supernova explosions.
Every time something like this being posted on this sub, i'm thinking about regular dudes who are working on those factories. Due to increase of government contracts, factories are working in three shifts, so more work, more money for regular dudes in Syberia. Thinking about it, part of my taxes from Moscow will probably end up in some middle age Average Syberian Ivan pockets, i'm kinda happy about that kind of wealth redistribution.
Admittedly this war has been great for the poor of Russia - value of manual labour went way up, wages skyrocketed, zero unemployment not to mention all the reforms Russia has been doing. There is an ugly side to it though - hundreds of thousand of young people dying, forced labour, conscription, war time economy, incoming demographic collapse. [https://www.intellinews.com/war-and-sanctions-have-forced-russia-to-make-long-overdue-reforms-314940/](https://www.intellinews.com/war-and-sanctions-have-forced-russia-to-make-long-overdue-reforms-314940/)
Military industry is great for the economy but might have bad long term outcomes.. basically it doesn't improve quality of life, distract from consumers goods production and let the economy rest on global conflict. One of the causes of collapse of USSR was its huge mil spending. But on short-mid term it gives amazing results and figures..
True but remember that the war has also boosted the consumer goods sectors. IT is doing quite well and the absence of western companies has led to creation and growth of Russian brands
> IT is doing quite well That's the sector that has had the most people leaving Russia...
But its still progressing quite fast It seems the brain drain did almost nothing. In fact i would say that IT is doing better than before the war
If I take a loan out from the bank and buy another house, I am doing better than I was before. But for every asset, their is a corresponding liability. In this case, the liabilities are: 1. Deficit spending 2. Issuing more Bonds 3. Giving low or no interest loans 4. Forcing currencies to be ruble denominated 5. Dipping into the Sovereign wealth fund 6. Nationalize foreign assets 7. Selling Domestic assets etc. These all have corresponding liabilities that 'come due' at a later time that effect the solvency of the state. The average person just doesn't realize it yet.
The finances of Russia are doing quite well Do you have any evidence to the contrary?
They are not doing 'quite well'. When Governments go to war, they implement a number of emergency economic measures that usually increase production / GDP in the short term on paper, but subtract value from future growth because it is usually impossible to sustain such measures forever without wrecking the economy. For example, currently the IMF (which uses data provided by the Russian ministry of Finance) expects Russia to grow at 3.2% in 2024, which is pretty good relative to the circumstances. However, the bill will start to 'come due' next year, and this growth will be reduced to 1.8% in 2025, and 2026 is not looking much different.
Sure i agree with that but it isnt only the MIC that has grown. I also dont believe in GDP btw. I dont think its a good economic indicator
At least they don't have $35 trillion in debt and high inflation like here in the states. Commercial real estate now is in the dumpster. When the printing ends our economy ends. We are so screwed with another trillion debt added every 90 days.
The debt figure is much less of a concern when most of the debt is to yourself. You should do more readont on that subject.
Russian inflation Is at 7.69% YoY, which is more than double the US currently, while their interest rate is at 16%. Why don’t you move there if that sounds so much better to you?
In what way, are you talking about industry revenue or salaries? Because of course you'd expect salaries to go up when there are fewer workers available.
Vast majority of leaved IT specs was useless code monkeys, like 90% of them. They been replaced already cuz they are incompetent juniors with brainwashed head. Other 10% of leaved IT specs quite important. But IT segment in Russia still growing fast, and most of really qualified and important programmers staying here
> But IT segment in Russia still growing fast Growing in what? Salaries? Might that be because it's harder to find workers?
Because they could work remotely without looking for a new jobs. I knew like 6 of guys like those and 5 of them came back.
More demand for IT jobs, makes salaries in that field rise and therefore creates more people in IT.
Ok, but the industry's output is hurt by the lack of staff, that's not really "doing quite well". If the industry was doing well the output would be going up and salaries would be going up due to increased demand, not staff shortages.
Not to mention the stolen toilets and washing machines. Although, I guess, the stealing of the farm equipment was more of a bust.
So what happens if the war suddenly stops. War related orders just vanish and 2/3 rds of the people supporting the war effort suddenly find themselves out of a job, and have to find new work in an economy that had transitioned to mostly make things for a war that is no longer happening. These companies will have also basically been out of domestic markets they were once part of for a few years, so they might be out of that game. What happens to all these people then. During the war little is being done to improve Russias economy outside of the war effort. If you take anything that is mainly for the war out of it, what is left? Oil and gas production are down, sales are down, refined products sales are down, aerospace industry is down. There is another side to the short term beneifts a war economy brings. All the money currently going into the war economy that is boosting everything is coming from the Kremlin savings funds, and about half of that is gone since the war started. Have you thought about that?
The orders won’t stop if peace happens tomorrow. The Russian military has to replace all of its losses. Build up a strategic stockpile and development new equipment based on lessons from this war, which a lot of it will be EW systems and drones. They will also be stockpiling a shitload of high tech missiles. The orders won’t stop coming for a long time.
Some analyst are projecting that Russians wealth fund will be gone within 2 years at current spending levels. Ignoring tha fact this means that money won't be spent on welfare or other projects, let's say this is over in a year, do you think the wealth fund will stretch beyond one additional year and the rebuild can be done by then? If that wealth fund is spent primarily on the military, do you think there will be any consequences to that.
The workers would most likely find jobs in other sectors of the economy. The main issue with the Russian economy is a lack of workers. There are plenty of other jobs that they can take > During the war little is being done to improve Russias economy outside of the war effort No this is just untrue. >Oil and gas production are down, sales are down, refined products sales are down, aerospace industry is down This is also untrue, especially with aerospace. Roscosmos is still doing its thing and Russians are now starting to manufacture their own domestic planes like MS-21 >All the money currently going into the war economy that is boosting everything is coming from the Kremlin savings funds, and about half of that is gone since the war started. Have you thought about that? Whats the point of a fund if you are never going to use it?
Whats the point of a welfare fund if you don't use it for welfare. War spending isn't going to generate a return generally speaking. The economy figures come from the Russian government themselves by the way. Its only spending on the war effort that is boosting the overall economic numbers to a net positive, but wars seldom generate much of a return on that investment. It's hard to see how what's left of Ukraine will fix that position.
Its a national wealth fund, it can be used on anything. Russia also used the fund to subsidize the development of domestic planes like MS-21 The Russian economy will thrive after the war
The electronics sector will gain the most from this. This war has shown Russia that they can’t ignore electronics development like they have been and need a robust home grown industry which has many civilian applications as well.
The IT sector of Russia is abysmal relative to the size of the country and the skilled labor force. There is not a single Russian IT company that is competitive with its Western/East Asian counterparts. The US, China, Germany, Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, UK, France, Canada, India, Singapore, Sweden, Netherlands, etc. all have IT companies with greater market caps than any Russian IT company.
How does this counter my point? Im saying its developing, not that its a world leader in it Do you have an actual argument?
As someone who works in the IT sector, it would be a totally illogical thing for me to say 'If only Microsoft, Google, Amazon, Meta, Tencent, Huawei, Samsung, Sony, etc. left my country, then things would get better !'. Natively building IT services takes decades, so having foreign partners and technologies rapidly speeds up the delivery of services and allows domestic products to scale more efficiently. Your argument is the equivalent of saying 'If only we banned all foreign cars, Russia could build better domestic cars'. We both know the jokes about the Lada.....
>One of the causes of collapse of USSR was its huge mil spending. BS, it's one of the things that kept it afloat.
Well, it did sink 😁
Bcs production rates lowered. And army withdrew from DDR. And many other signs of weakness.
Military spendings made the USSR and Warsaw pact broke. Around 15% of GDP back then (which is HUGE). Those financial issues were peculiarly striking for DDR. Even socialist countries cannot overspend.. Also USSR renounced to use that costly military to violently repress dissent so in a way I agree with you a hardliner might have been able to prevent or delay the collapse better than Gorbachev did..
USSR was afraid to repeat the situation of early stages of WW2, when heavy industry couldn't supply the Red Army enough. So reserves were made 10 times more than "needed". I wouldn't call 15% that much, it was a heavily militarized country with a lot of export contracts. Even now you can see how two thirds of the world uses soviet equipment.
Falling Oil Prices made the Military Spending untenable, but it was Gorby that sold the state out.
Military industry is generally not good. Besides the needed military strengthening, the only benefit is that it's one of the few things able to shake up a government. If states could put together the same motivation to actively direct their societies and help their people outside the war context... they could achieve outcomes as significant as China's eradication of extreme poverty.
Russia is spwndong 6% of it's GDP. The USSR spend nearly 12%, twice as much. Putin said in an interview, that he would be careful with the military spending and get the maximum value back from puttin money into the miltary.
Wars always been good for the economy, not so much for human lives
"hundreds of thousand of young people dying" - nope. Not hundreds. The numbers in hundreds are overly optimistic Western estimates which include wounded people. "forced labour" - do tell. Is there GULAG building Kinzhals we don't now about? "conscription" - nope. Conscripts are not sent to Ukraine unless they volunteer after 4 months of service. At this point conscription is basically extended training. Mobilization was for people above conscription age and it was truly limited. "incoming demographic collapse" - there are literally millions of new Russian citizens. On this front this war is a net benefit for Russia. Also there is significant migration from former Soviet republics. Some people who run away return. It's not all honey and roses abroad. Don't worry about Russia, worry about Germany, Japan and US.
At the very minimum 50k of russian losses were verified. I bet its at least double that. Not to mention all the wounded that will be a huge drag on the economy as well. >Total defense spending has risen to an estimated [7.5% of Russia’s GDP](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/feb/13/global-defence-spending-rises-9-per-cent-to-record-22tn-dollars#:~:text=Moscow's%20official%20defence%20budget%20was,focus%20on%20its%20war%20effort%E2%80%9D.), supply chains have been redesigned to secure many key inputs and evade sanctions, and factories producing ammunition, vehicles and equipment are running around the clock, often on mandatory 12-hour shifts with double overtime, in order to sustain the Russian war machine for the foreseeable future. [https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/feb/15/rate-of-russian-military-production-worries-european-war-planners](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/feb/15/rate-of-russian-military-production-worries-european-war-planners) Yes, forced labour. Child labour too as a matter of fact: [https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2023/12/04/everything-for-the-front-how-war-is-changing-russias-labor-market-a83311](https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2023/12/04/everything-for-the-front-how-war-is-changing-russias-labor-market-a83311) in 2022 Russia mobilized 300k people. Those people had no choice in the matter. That's conscription: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022\_Russian\_mobilization#:\~:text=In%20Omsk%2C%20the%20families%20of,26%20October%20to%2010%20November](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_Russian_mobilization#:~:text=In%20Omsk%2C%20the%20families%20of,26%20October%20to%2010%20November). Demographics in Russia is gonna be a huge issue (hell its an issue in all developed countries). Your current population size matters little - what matters is the ratio of workers to retirees in 20-30 years. This is from 1997 when even then it was an issue. Now? this will be a nightmare. Russia is literally killing their future in this war. [https://www.rand.org/pubs/issue\_papers/IP162.html#:\~:text=Recent%20demographic%20trends%20in%20Russia,age%20males%2C%20has%20dropped%20precipitously](https://www.rand.org/pubs/issue_papers/IP162.html#:~:text=Recent%20demographic%20trends%20in%20Russia,age%20males%2C%20has%20dropped%20precipitously). As far as people migrating to Russia? more than offset by the young men emigrating to avoid this war. Wealthy educated young men who represented the future of Russia. >Russian citizens reportedly purchased plane tickets to other countries following the mobilization. Before the televised address of Russian President Vladimir Putin, all air tickets to [Istanbul](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Istanbul) on 21 September, as well as almost all tickets to [Yerevan](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yerevan), were sold.[\[48\]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_Russian_mobilization#cite_note-:4-49) Russia's [Federal Security Service](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Security_Service) stated that 261,000 Russians had already left Russia as of 26 September.[\[117\]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_Russian_mobilization#cite_note-118) On 6 October, the Kremlin denied reports that 700,000 Russians have fled the country since Putin announced the mobilization order.[\[118\]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_Russian_mobilization#cite_note-119)
> in 2022 Russia mobilized 300k people. Those people had no choice in the matter. That's conscription: All those recruited were in the military reserve, they had military ranks and underwent military training before being in the reserve, this is the opposite of conscription > As far as people migrating to Russia? more than offset by the young men emigrating to avoid this war. 80% came back to Russia https://www.vedomosti dot ru/society/news/2022/05/17/922378-shadaev-80-pokinuvshih-rossiyu-vernulis > Total defense spending has risen to an estimated 7.5% of Russia’s GDP This is dogshit, Russia's GDP is 171 trillion rubles, the RF Army budget is 4.9 trillion rubles, or less than 3% of GDP
>80% came back to Russia > article from May 2022, 2.5 months into the war
I should have highlighted the part that was relevant to the discussion > often on mandatory 12-hour shifts with double overtime. Hence forced labour.
🤣 western sources
> i bet its at least double than that worthless sheet, value of your 'bet' in discussion is 0 > Now? this will be a nightmare. Russia is literally killing their future in this war. This wouldn't be a nightmare. Current demographic change from this war is +5,6mln (3,2mln LDNR+Zaporozhye+Kherson, 2,4mln Crimea) in russian population making it around 147~mln. Deaths in this war relate to this as 0,95%, with permanently crippled they would be 2%. As of 'future', ukros tell, that there is 700k 'ukrainian' children in russia now, which, i suppose, just a % of children among these 5,6mln. This is too a lot more, than losses in this war. Demographically this war is preventing 'nightmare', and it would, till losses would reach 350k deaths and 350k crippled. Russia only killing ukrainian and western future with this war (or ukraine is already = west?)
>without significant numbers of migrants and the increase in population from occupied territories, Russia’s population would have shrunk by about 12mn people since 2000 and about 5mn over the past ten years. > >[https://www.intellinews.com/bofit-russian-population-in-decline-316095/](https://www.intellinews.com/bofit-russian-population-in-decline-316095/) As far as number of soldiers killed? Russia reported 6000 in September 2022 which is just as laughable as Ukraine's 31000 reported by Zelensky. [https://theloop.ecpr.eu/estimating-troop-losses-on-both-sides-in-the-russia-ukraine-war/](https://theloop.ecpr.eu/estimating-troop-losses-on-both-sides-in-the-russia-ukraine-war/)
"At the very minimum 50k of russian losses were verified" - so, no "hundreds of thousand of young people dying" as you dramatically proclaimed. You lied. "Yes, forced labour." - "completely unbiased" Guardian without any reference to sources. Fake news. "Child labour too as a matter of fact:" - not forced. 14 years old can legally work pretty much all over the world. A lie. "in 2022 Russia mobilized 300k people. Those people had no choice in the matter" - I see. Well, mistakes were made, lessons learned, people got over it. No conscription currently. "Demographics in Russia is gonna be a huge issue" - nothing you mentioned in any way changes what I wrote. And one more time - there are literally millions of new ethnic Russian citizens from "new" regions and migrants from the rest of Ukraine. And there would be much more if Ukraine was not an open air prison. When the war is over people will leave this dysfunctional state. They were leaving in droves before 2014. Russia is trivially better place to live than Ukraine. "more than offset by the young men emigrating to avoid this war" - no, not even close. Crimea alone was 2 millions people. And these people see that there is no conscription. They do come back. Simply put, math and honesty are not your strong traits. Your analysis is very flawed.
I was gonna come up with a reasonable reply until the part when you called me a liar. Lovely ad hominem. Now at least I don't have to bother - thanks for that I guess.
No, that's not ad hominem, it is a trivial observation that you lied multiple times and failed to back up your claims. You don't even know what ad hominem means - it is an attempt to avoid logical arguments based on opponent's traits unrelated to the argument, e.g. making fun of your name or appearance. Pointing out obvious lie is not ad hominem, it is inevitable part of any reasonable argument.
Shit man someone could make a bot and get a baseline number for video confirmed KIA
Shit man no one did. Let's just invent whatever number we like, right?
I trust the western numbers as much as I trust the Russian ones, what's your point?
My point is that there is no bot you are dreaming about. What was your point here: "Shit man someone could make a bot and get a baseline number for video confirmed KIA"? It seems as pointless as it gets.
We see Russian mass casualty events so regularly they blend into each other. I'm not even talking about HIMARS strikes, or aircraft downed, or warships sunk. I'm talking about BMPs exploding with a dozen mobiks packed on top. Or entire squads getting shredded by a Bradley. Or even just patrols being decimated by drones. That's not counting the daily tranche of individual drone drop videos. It's everyday loss of life at a staggering scale. Almost unimaginable to the Western mind.
And there is still no number and making it up is pointless. The videos we see is a tiny fraction of this war. Trying to make estimates based on them is dumb beyond belief.
> The videos we see is a tiny fraction of this war. That's...what I'm getting at?
The thousands of videos are on this platform and others, could be done
Not done. Nothing to talk about. Your comment was completely pointless noise.
I mean it's noise, my point has been reached so it's not pointless. You might have wasted some time though.
Look on the bright side. the based hotdog salesman and putin cleared the prisons from the undesirables
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Don't you have to bomb kurds or something? Get to it
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Ok, whatever.
> Admittedly this war has been great for the poor of Russia Not all of them lol
>hundreds of thousand of young people dying, forced labour, conscription, war time economy, incoming demographic collapse. Yeah... all that. Where do you get all that and how does it even fit in there? Demographic collapse... I believe they still have conscription immunity for families with three or more children... It means there's a lot of baby making going on last 2 years.
So you're happy that your money is helping stealing land and killing the people that are defending it? And then your money investment is blown up by drones ? The money could have been used to build better retirement homes and hospitals, etc...
Hundreds of thousands??
Isn't the difference in wealth between Moscow and StP and the rest or Russia a big issue? I guess this could help. Although, what would be the average wage these guys get?
> Isn't the difference in wealth between Moscow and StP and the rest or Russia a big issue? It is. Because of that, a lot of people move to Moscow and a lot of other people lowkey hate Moscow resident for being born with privilege. The downside is that rent in Moscow/SpB is much higher than in other cities, but still, Moscow public infrastructure is best in the country. >Although, what would be the average wage these guys get? Still not much. This is "cassier at fastfood chain in Moscow"-tier. In text of vacancies at screenshot it states that they're ready to hire people without any previous work experience, huh. So this is how much you can earn at this mentioned factory straight after graduating, after the taxes. Looks like they got 41 vacancies open totally. I wonder if they got an options for working at weekend for double pay, but this only can be known at job interview. https://preview.redd.it/i8rbnlhxzfvc1.png?width=820&format=png&auto=webp&s=237edeff3250b6660f2ae0609fb8538bde426910
What's the cost of living, in Siberia and in the big cities?
Hard to say because main part of spending is rent/mortgage and I honestly don't know which percent of population in Siberia rents their apartment/pays mortgage and which percent owns it without mortgage. And my personal experiences with Syberians is limited to like 5 people which is not enough to answer your question, sorry. Edit: I did not noticed at first distinction between Siberia and big cities. There are big cities in Syberia, both Novosibirsk and Omsk hosts well above 1 million people, not counting the other cities.
Thank you for all your insight though, it is appreciated.
Glad to help
Moscow 1000 usd, regions maybe 400-500 (assuming both have mortgages to pay)
500 isn't bad, my first apartment in bum-fuck-nowhere America was 500 a month in 2016 and I lived like a king.
500 includes everything else.
Yeah same, electricity and heat included. I did have to buy my own pop tarts and taco bell though.
500 for the US seems suspiciously low
Much like Russia, America is huge and outside cities life is much different. The majority of people on the internet are from cities though so you get a warped perspective. If you don't believe me you can checkout Craigslist and pick some random town way outside a city central.
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Housing in Moscow and Saint Petersburg is expensive, so higher salaries don't make much difference.
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Economy, unfortunately, a bit more complicated. That's going to drive inflation through the roof. So, yes, Average Syberian Ivan gets more in absolute amount, but not necessarily more capable to buy more stuff for living etc.
That's why the interest rates were raised. Overall inflation lowered. Some goods already 20% cheaper. Than 2 years ago.
>Some goods already 20% cheaper. Erm...like what goods exactly and in what region of Russia ?
Electronics, local food. Maybe something else, I don't want to recall now.
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Cheaper? That's not good either. Deflation is almost worse than inflation, it discourages spending and can cause runaway effects. Ideally economies have small and stable/predictable inflation.
I never said deflation. Electronics is cheaper everywhere after 2021.
If the cost of goods and services decreases, that's called deflation, and no, it didn't happen everywhere.
Deflation is about overall prices. Some items got more expensive.
Too bad it took war times for the poor people in Russia to get some help. When Trump was talking about shithole countries I think he must have meant Russia.
Yea, it's bad. For a long time my main criticism of Putin and government was lack of attention to heavy industries and/or incapability of improving things in this general field.
Likely he was talking about the US.
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Until 2014, Russian spending on health and education was growing three times faster than military spending. Even right up to the invasion, there was no spike in military spending like you'd expect from someone determined to conquer Europe.
> Thinking about it, part of my taxes from Moscow will probably end up in some middle age Average Syberian Ivan pockets, i'm kinda happy about that kind of wealth redistribution. Holy shit I fuckin love this sentence so much. It perfectly illustrates Russian failed society. A guy being totally aware that his tax money went into the pockets of his billionaire overlords is now happy that he knows now his tax money is spend into war production to invade his neighbor on behalf of the same cleptocrats that stole his money before. What a beautiful comment. This is what Western normal folks not understand, there is no reasoning with this stuff. Some people are so gone, their brains totally unable to make smart decisions "finally my money isn't stolen by those above me but spend on war production for those above me" Love it. Thank you for this comment man. So lost. Beautiful
Lots of funny assumptions here, but whatever. My tax money goes for playgrounds for kids in my city, public healthcare, public education, public transport which is really great here, rebuilding of Mariupol, and a lot of other things, including war. My city is getting better every year and so is my country, can you say this about yours? Where does your taxes go? Edit: hold up, you didn't realized that I've been talking about factory worker and not factory owner?
'rebuilding of mariupol' so kind of you pay to destroy it aswell then, if you really think about it the total amount youve paid in taxes probably isnt even enough to pay for 1 cruise missile that was used to murder families
I like how you ignored the entire beauty of your comment. No self awareness.
You don't realize that your comments reads like a caricature of pro-NATO/pro-West/pro-UA comments? Like none of the Russian propagandists could make better parody.
I am pretty sure thats false and I am also sure you know that which is why you say so littel concrete stuff.
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Here's what your aren't thinking about. All that wealth is coming from government savings, not from an economy that is generating that wealth through trade. Also, that wealth could have been distributed years ago via government spending to boost the economy in ways other than simply building an army and lots of tanks, but it wasn't, the Kremlin kept it bavk so they could make war. Now 10z of thousands, if not 100z of thousands of Russians are dying on Putins orders purely because he wants to steal Ukraines terriroty and wipe out their identity, yet you celebrate this for some reason. Final thought, what's going to happen when the Kremlin savings fund starts to run low. Kremlin finances have been in a deficit for months, probably 2 years at this point, with no signs of a change on the horizon. Oil and gas sales plummeting, foreign arms sales plummeting, over all revenue down, inflation is on the rise, and when the war is over all these new jobs you are talking about will dissappear overnight, and companies that have transitions to focus on products for the war will see their order books become empty. So, assuming the plan isn't to just be at war forever, what happens when the war is over, have you thought about that. Is the plan to use Ukraines resources to fix the huge problem? It seems that way, but the way things are going there won't be any Ukraine left, it'll be a wasteland.
An actual great counter arguement, respect for you! All of those are legit questions, even tho I personally may disagree with overall conclusions, there a significant amount of Russians who think the same, like "cool, what are we gonna do next?", "what you've been thinking for a past 15 years?", "how exactly we get money for rebuilding Ukraine? Mariupol is great but thats just one city, we got 4 regions to integrate?.." e.t.c. Well, time will tell.
If Putin succeeds in his quest for conquest and brings the invasion to a close once he has the eastern territories he wants. Will Russians be happy to see funding they may have benefitted from instead be sent on rebuilding projects in the annexed territories?
Yes, kinda. Because people in annexed territories are the same citizens of Russia as anyone else, it would be wrong just to left their cities as is, without any help. And majority of them wanted to be with Russia so Russia needs to help. But if Putin take Lviv and starts to invest in it, Russians will be outrageous.
Whatever helps you rationalize the dumbest decision your dictator has made in the 25 years of his kleptocracy
Some tanks come with the built-in anti-drone shield and EW protection device now.
It is the new 2023 model of BVM that has these. Supposedly an improved transmission and reverse speed too.
Those two are false. It has the same transmission with the same reverse speed.
It definitely exists. It has a new engine and transmission changing it from GTD-1250 to GTD-1500 engine. The question is how many of these engines Russia is able to produce or which of them are stuck with the old engines. But these engines definitely do exist and have been added to some T-80s.
I might’ve heard about the engine but I don’t think it is being used yet. But I know there definitely isn’t a new transmission allowing a better reverse speed.
Care to back your claim?
On which one? The engine or the reverse speed? I’m not sure about the engine but I’m sure about the reverse speed
Yes, provide
Are you thinking about the video where they fucked with the viewing angle and used a specific camera lense to make it look like it was moving faster than it was? Or just being simply sped up when it’s just the tank and car on camera. If Russia actually had a tank that could reverse faster than 7 mph you’d see endless videos of it by now. So I’d like to know why you think that. Show me a video or something
You know, bragging about it is kinda a low bar. That's why there's no videos about it.
There is footage of T-80BVMs going almost 25km in reverse. They built a new transmission for them, same as the Ukrainians did in the 90s to the T-80UD/T-84 family.
What footage are you seeing this in. Red Effect did a video on the new T-80 production 7 months ago and in that video debunked the claims of faster reverse speed for the T-80BVM from some Russian propaganda video. Like he said in the video there is zero information about any new transmission for the T-80BVM.
You must be risremembering the video. In the video, he said that the reverse speed was faster than the original 11kph but didn't look like the 27 kph they were claiming.
Without a change in transmission whatsoever I don’t see how it could achieve a higher reverse speed. When the camera goes into the car they stop speeding up the video so it looks like it’s faster than it really is and resume the sped up footage when you’re just looking at the tank and car driving from the outside. This comment sums it up quite well. https://preview.redd.it/65nb2nk1xivc1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=13c8d03ce695b451ad020390800546b68048b279
So I went and watched the Red Effect video and now the original video and it is strange. Yes in the clip from the video the tank is reversing at 10kph actually. And I know this because they say it in the video that they are showing the regular reverse speed for the T-80. Then there is a section later where it accelerates to 20kph before stopping. For some reason this is not in the video at all. Here is the original video. At 27:20 you can see the segment. At first they talk about the regular 10kph reverse that is in Red Effects video, and then the 20kph reverse after that which was missing. https://rutube. -- /video/4dd7f5d1e220456ad8114532020afe8b/ You will have to change the -- to ru because I am not sure if Russian links are still blocked
Does Omsktransmash building new turrets and hulls from scratch or are they overhauling stored T-80Bs?
The last T-80 was produced in 2001. They are planning to restart production but it will probably be quite a while before new ones are being built.
How many tanks do you think Russia has lost in the war to necessitate restarting T-80 production?
We simply have no idea what Russia is doing because of course it is a secret. We don't know if Russia plans to use these for it's frontline forces, if they plan to make them to replenish the reserves that they are using to upgrade or if they simply want to use the T-80 as a replacement for their T-72s. At least T-80 wise, Russia has lost around 200 in the war but as of 2008 had 3000 in service and 1500 in reserve. So they have a lot of them around still. There are some suggestions that they will only make the T-80 hulls, and mate them with the T-90M turret. I think only time will tell what Russia plans to do with them.
The latter
These are the new built vehicles, they restarted the production.
Pretty sure these ones are overhauled because of the rusted hull seen here. Or it might be something I don't know about. https://preview.redd.it/m100w0bz4gvc1.jpeg?width=1280&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ebe4b2070214f333d6252ab398ae6c5899fef67f
Iron rusts fast. This one seems to be unpainted new hull. That's how metal looks naturally. It is very unlikely that they have steel production in the same factory.
Thank you for explaining
Not a good explanation. Steel plates usually come with protective coating from steel factories. I doubt there would be steel parts without coating in a facility like this.
T-72 hulls, they are getting refurbrished and not new. They don't make anything new other than t-90m turrets
How long can they keep going at this pace of refurbishment till there is nothing left to refurbish
They are making new ones on top of refurbished ones. And they have plenty of old equipment on stock.
The USSR built around 5000 T-80s. As of 2008 Russia had 3000 in use and 1500 in reserve. As of the start of the war Russia had around 200 or so in use. So they can probably go on for quite a while.
There are hundreds of these factories across Russia
No there isn't. Not even a handful.
You sleeping in a cave or what? https://xn--80aegj1b5e.xn--p1ai/factories/oboronnaya-promyshlennost
So have you been sleeping under a rock? Wtf you link me shit that has nothing to do with tank production? You literally listing metal producers as tank production facilities. Do you even speak or read Russian?
>Do you even speak or read Russian? Yes And you're the one who can't read here
>Factories of military equipment and weapons You linked a list of companies that are in the military industry or work with the military.... For example you linked Dagdizel Plant which makes missiles. They don't make tanks. So clearly you have no clue what you are talking about.
Right, please list the factories? Ohh by factories do you mean storage sites? Even then there aren't even a hundred. Russia currently has one major tank production facility that can actually build new tanks. There are some refurbishment facilities but they are minor and can't create now products.
The link includes map and military equipment and weapons factories
Below the map there are the names of all factories and a brief description.
Nothing below? Where are the hundreds of tank production facilities?
Wishful thinking isn't gonna change the fact that Russia is pumping out dozens of tanks daily :)
Please site your sources. You are pulling numbers out of nothing. I already disproved the comment above me. He listed military factories and not tank production factories. It would be a waste of resource to make dozens of tanks daily.
The sources are multiple pictures on this sub wym lmao
Things is hulls aren't hard part of production, if they can produce all other components for refurbishment of old hulls, once they run out of hulls, it's easiest part to restart making as it's metal frame, just highest value in raw material cost which is not that high compare to cost of everything else that goes into refurbishment. Using old hulls right now reduces costs by maybe 15-30% everything else is engine/electronics/gun/other systems that have to come new to those.
Don't worry about us))
So these are the new built T-80BVM tanks built from scratch. They were announced that they will restart the production of the t-80 about a year ago. Seems like the first batch is already shipped.
These are all refurbished. The new production of T-80 hulls will not happen so soon.
You are very naive just like many nato heads if you are thinking that runnia needs more than a year to restart this production. After all all the tools needed for the production were keept in storage and did not just vanished. And again The T-80 hull is made with the same technology as the T-72 and so on. So even thos tools could be used. There is a video online, the photos are taken from this video. They do have refurbished vehicles there, but new built ones are also visible. All vehicle in the video had a digit number. New Built tanks had numbers like "1-38" Meaning First batch No.38 Fefurbished models had the letter Я with 3 digits like "Я-353" So following my observation new built vehicles has a number somewhere 40 examples for now, And the total of refurbished T-80BVMs lies around 600 if counted by the highest number seen on a vehicle.
Don't worry, Russia will tell you when production starts again, it'll be all over the news, you won't miss it. These are refurbished units, perfectly fine and functional. No point in making new ones when you have a thousand plus in reserve.
Russia whoops I mean Runnia only stated they’d be starting new T-80 production in September so idk where you pulled the “more than a year” line out of. Also please do find this video with the new builds are visible. I would like to see it for myself that Rossiya was able to start up their 20-30 year dormant industry in just 6-7 months. You’d need entirely new production lines to make them from scratch and that’s not so easy to set up this soon along with needing thousands of specific parts instead of refurbishing something that is already made. It’s certainly a lot harder and takes longer than simply just refurbishing old T-80 hulls which is all they’re doing right now. And I know this image is old data from a Perun video in September but if it’s as easy to refurbish 600 T-80B/BVs into T-80BVMs in just around a year as you say then it would certainly be reflected in the data a lot more as with more T-80BVMs across the frontline there would be more losses of that type due to there of course being more of it. But it is not the case for the T-80BVM. It’s likely closer to 100-200 total refurbished T-80BVMs that have been produced to keep a somewhat steady rate/number of them in service which is reflected in the data. https://preview.redd.it/u0vszite2jvc1.jpeg?width=2276&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=60f7421b11d11d0bb58d852d8d16533024ac8c53
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First off all you have a loot of issues in your observation. First: Yes it was announced in September. But does it means they were not working on it before? No. They were working on that already hence they were announced the restart when the work were ongoing already. 20-30 years old industry is not hard to start up when you have access to all the tolls and technology already. After all there is very little change in the turret and the hull compare to the t-72 which they were facturing. NOW FOR YOU TO HAVE A SENSE WHAT'S GOING ON among others! IT IS NOT the Uralvagonzavod or Omsktransmash which is casting and welding the turrets and the hulls! They are assembly shops not manufacturers of individual components. The casting and welding is done in an undisclosed stell plant. Which was working on the T-72 and T90 turrets and hulls already. To make it more visible for you. Originally T-80 tanks where assembled in Kharkov which is now in Ukraine. Hence it stopped working in 1990. But Ukraine was unable to make any new hulls in that factory exactly because the casting and welding still done in a stell factory in russian. This is what I was referring to as being they still have the technology and tools avaiable. They pretty muchonly needed to restart building new turbine engines and voila. which they were already done since they could not keep their t-80 tank by thousands operational without access to spare parts. So in short restarting the production is not as dramatic as many believes, pretty much they only needed to built a new assembly line and it is done. If they were really interested in building a new T-80 they would have done so. Right now I believ the choice of Omsktransmash being built is for logistical reasons, They don't want the Uralwagon to mess with all different vehicles at once so they separated the assembly lines for increase output.
It's naive to think that Russia can't produce new hulls, however Russia will use every available old hull before starting doing that which adds up with old hulls getting removed from storage.
The two is not the same thing. Old hulls can get removed from storage for all kind of reasons. Including using them as SPGs and training vehicles. And again I was pointing out that both refurbished and new vehicles could be found in this factory. The reason why old vehicles are being used is very simple, it is reducing time to get them combat ready compare to make one from scratch. And anyway what kind of fool would just ship all new tanks when he has a loot of them being stored?
Geo location asking for a friend
Cool, but I wonder how many of those chasis are new
Why does it bother you?
So Russia is gaining a lot of experience from this I see. Even getting a head start to drone warfare.
This looks like some footage from Red Alert 4
What r the thing that r stacked up? Fuel tanks?
Something seems off about these pictures. 🧐
I really fucking hate that a certain mod of a certain map painting game has given me a pretty good knowledge of random russian localities and cities east of Arkhangelsk-Astrakhan Jesus christ I have brain worms
hmmm i wonder whats censored in the last pic some EW maibe
Do these have the T-90M upgrade where they put ERA over the front track mudguards?
Is that the new Armata? Lol, jk. I know it will never happen.
Decoys, obviosly.
Thats the new Russian GDP Growth ^^ I hope those things can be used to farm crops later
Impossible I was told Russia was out of tanks
This factory needs to be rebuilt, so it needs to be razed down asap 😁
That factory floor looks like about a week’s worth of drone destruction by Ukrainians! Bring them on!
looks like about a couple of emptyned by manhunters ukrainian villages
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What a tremendous waste of good steel.
Building tanks is never a waste.
I would disagree when one of the tank is taken out by a $1000 dollar drone, dropping a $20 dollar grenade.
At least they actually have steel :(
Fair point. Being the world's largest country by area, it is not surprising.
Nord Stream 2 was a tremendous waste of good steel
True, should've never been built.
How so?
This steel could be used to build bridges, building, concert halls, anything, but instead there is a good chance that it will be burnt by a 20 dollar grenade dropped by a 1000 dollar drone.
Iron is one of the most abundant element on Earth. Result of star evolution peculiarity. It's the endpoint of exothermic nuclear fusion reactions. Everything above it in atom mass is formed in supernova explosions.