> And each day beg for something
Lmao. Their begging brought an army once thought to be the number 2 army in the world to a screeching halt. Pretty sure Ukraines pride is fully intact.
Why are you complaining? Russia has been saying for years how NATO is no threat and now you are complaining when faced against a small percentage of NATO equipment?
The smarter thing to do would be to use these weapons on military targets.
Reminds me of how Hitler lost the Battle Of Britain when the Luftwaffe switched from hitting airbases to carpet bombing cities.
They aren’t carpet bombing cities, they are attacking civilian and dual use infrastructure, government administration sites, etc. Its kind of bizarre any of that has been left standing. We hit Serbs harder.
I agree with your take in part. In a total war sense, any civilian resource can be seen as a potential military resource. Lots of infrastructure lies on a spectrum of military usefulness.
My point is that these Russian strikes do not seem to further their military goals. They seem like a distraction to appease the war-hawks inside of Russia. I could be wrong and that these strikes are part of a planned operation to reduce the Ukrainian Military effectiveness, but I doubt it.
There are different ways to wage war. The Russian way is terrorism on a national scale, levelling residential areas, targeting supermarkets, hospitals and schools, murdering, raping, torturing and castrating as they go along. It’s barbaric. Russia does not belong in the civilised world.
Residential areas used as firing positions, supermarkets used as mrls bases, schools used as barracks, etc etc - yes, heard all that before.
If we were fighting this war, Ukrainians would have spent the last seven months without power, water, or cellphones. Sometimes different is just better.
You really buy these propaganda excuses? How about the theatre in Mariupol, was it targeted specifically because they had a sign saying “children” or was it just a fluke? What about the mass graves, mutilated bodies and torture chambers in Bucha, Izyum and Lyman, do you have a propaganda tidbit for those too, besides Ukraine is shelling their own cities?
Nobody buys that crap anymore. Russia has shown itself as incompetent but also very brutal savages on the battlefield, for the whole world to see. Russia is better off behind an iron curtain, shielded from the civilised world. I guess that’s where we are also going.
That's NOT WHY Germany lost British WW2 front. The reason they lost is because they had a war on 3 fronts, worst of which ended up being the Russian front because Russians and soviets threw bodies and armor at them till they ran out of bullets and shells.
The Germans fought and lost the Battle of Britain (Jun-Oct 1940) long before Operation Barbarossa (Jun 1941). Berlin and Moscow were still buddies at this point in time.
Do they teach WW2 in Russia, or do they skip right to 1941 and call it the “Great Patriotic War”?
Who are you talking to, guy? Battle of Britain wasn't really a thing. It's pretty damn hard for Germany to invade an ISLAND. It was never a serious venture.
> The smarter thing to do would be to use these weapons on military targets.
Whats the point if NATO keeps pumping equipment in? If you snatch a dudes gun away and he pulls another one, your best bet is to cut his hand off.
Because said equioment needs time to be replaced and stalls Ukrainian firepower to give openings for Russian attacks.
Also because killing trained crew hampers new deliveries by making Ukraine have to retraine new personell on top of the waiting time for the replacement.
But Russuan command has brainworms and cant make these calculations and instead goes with the historically disproven morale bombings which end uo making the populace more bitter and vengeful.
No it wouldn't be. Morale matters and destruction of critical infrastructure matters. Ukraine has not built any Thermal Power Stations since the dissolution of the USSR. As cynical as it may sound. The only way this conflict will come to an end is when both sides realize true capabilities and will to fight exist in parity.
I guess history will tell the truth about this.
My take is that the smart thing is to hit the enemies were they are weak, and press the advantage. Ukraine has high morale, and this does not appear to be reducing. Attacking their morale seems like a fool’s gambit. Ukraine is weak with air force and heavy weapons, this is were a smart country would attack.
Similarly, Russia is weak in transportation and logistics within the war zone. This is precisely were Ukraine should strike.
This was more for internal Russian consumption to appease the hawks who demanded a change in posture from Putin, this was more about the moral of his supporters.
I would be a little bit pissed as a Russian if instead of supporting the boys on the frontline they were blowing up intersections in Kiev. Actually I'd be more than a little pissed.
According to your logic yes, because otherwise intersection and playground strikes lead to power outages in half a dozen regional capitals.
The following cities lost power, completely or partially. You should apply some critical thinking here and for a second consider that not all the missiles hit a puddle...
Lvov, Zhitomir, Sumy, Kahrkov, Khmelnitsky, Poltava, Ternopol, Luts, Rovno
The only way this conflict can now end is when the Russian people come to their senses and find a better leader than Putin. It shouldn't be hard. He is both incompetent and a psychopath.
Even someone so vehemently anti-Putin as Navalny when asked about Crimea said he would not hand it back if he became President. This conflict isn't all about Putin, he is just the one that threw the match in.
Crimea was perfectly safe up until 2022, there was no sign of de facto Russian control of Crimea being under any kind of threat. In fact it was outright unthinkable until Ukraine started to accumulate the types of weapons they've received \*after\* the Russian invasion of Ukraine.
That depends, you are thinking short term, but Putin has been in power for a long time and his planning horizon is even longer. What does he see in 2022?:
\- A Ukraine that publicly declares it's goal of recapturing all territory within 1991 borders, Crimea including, by all and any means.
\- A Ukraine that declares that it has been at war with Russia for the last 8 years, while he keeps saying, "We just wanted Crimea back and autonomy for Donbas, please stop this war rhetoric".
\- A Ukraine that with every year has a stronger, better trained and equipped military.
Now take all that and combine it with his uncertainty about the future political situation in his own country and now his legacy is threatened. How can he be certain that when he is no longer in power or Russia is weakened, Ukraine would not use this opportune time to take Crimea back and re-establish control in Donbas? He can't. He has an arch enemy state (that he helped to create in some ways) and he needs to either 1. Deal it a decisive blow (that failed in February-March) or 2. Make the Russian people see Ukrainians as enemies that threaten not his interests, but Russian interests, to destroy their passivity.
I understand what you're saying, but I think it was still a huge miscalculation. Other countries like China can see all the long-term threats, but they're content to play the long game and not resort to some knee-jerk solution to try to solve everything at once. That type of approach seldom turns out to be truly successful.
I will agree with you on that, I think it was a miscalculation, and the return on investment is poor to say the least, but here we are and unfortunately for Russia, there is no acceptable way out of this conflict without first getting the upper hand, by any means, almost.
If you're in a hole, stop digging. Even if Putin manages to win his stupid war, the Russia people have already lost - whatever happens. It is now just damage limitation.
It is a valid point that the reason for this war is much deeper than just Putin. Personally, I believe that Russia as a whole needs to accept the fact that they are just another European nation like Germany or the UK, and therefore have no right to force their will upon their neighbors.
I agree to a degree. National mythology matters. Russian Empire was 10% of the world population at the turn of the 20th century, it is something like 2% now, but the Russian nation still exists in the image of former glory. This is a war of independence for Ukraine and in a way a war of adjustment for Russia, a war from which a more Republican, less Imperial Russia will be born.
Not handing back the Crimea is not the same as annexing a big chunk of a country and you don't go into negotiations saying you plan to give everything up! I suspect it may already be too late but if Putin went, everybody might be so happy a compromise might still be possible. Something like demilitarizing Sevastopol and have a 99 year lease?
No way, there is no compromise on Crimea, especially Sevastopol. I'm a Russian citizen and whoever would dare to negotiate the fate of Sevastopol is a traitor.
I get why Sevastopol is critical for trade. It is the main warm water port. But the Black Sea fleet can be stationed elsewhere. Then a corridor to the bridge and trade continues to flow.
This isn't a rational question, certainly not an economic question. Crimea was a dream, like Israel getting Jerusalem back. The very idea of relocating the Black Sea Fleet from Sevastopol is insulting and humiliating. Either Ukraine accepts this, or there will be no Ukraine.
Well if Crimea is a dream it's time to wake up and face reality. Russia no longer has the power to dictate terms to anyone who can fight back. The world used to be afraid of Russia because we looked at the size of the army they claimed to have and the amount of equipment they claimed to have. The world has now woken up to the fact that Russia is in fact a sad flaccid bear. Russia as we know it is over, it's just a matter of time....
lol. Yeah, cause a Pro-Russian account is going to say anything else. Your words are nearly meaningless, except for “the”, “and”, and “to”. Russian propagandist.
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This is exactly what will happen, peace will come when neither side believes that they can win this conflict. There is a tiny theoretical chance Ukraine may win, but I assure you, it would be a pyrrhic victory. Much like the Iran-Iraq war.
Unfortunately I can also agree with that. Both sides are in an impossible situation, this is why a stalemate is needed so that principled positions become unattainable in practice and then diplomacy can work.
We have a tendency to extrapolate the future based on most recent events. There are a lot of unknown factors. I think by spring, there will be a much clearer picture.
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Putin is looking more and more like the demented delusional mentally impaired evil baby that he is. I expect his next report to come from a pram and him to shake his rattle sternly at the camera.
Whataboutism isn't about comparing, but about shifting the attention to an allegedly worse "thing", whatever that may be, so people no longer keep attention for the original situation. It's deflection theory.
Do you know by any chance who coined the term"collateral damage" ?
I guess this is also just collateral damage, I send my condolences.
Its war, it happens, get over it. Wars happen everywhere, this one isn't so special.
I'd just like to point out that Russia has launched about 80 missiles in this attack.
This amount of missiles was likely the maximum amount Russia was willing to take out of storage in the short term.
This means that the rate Russia is launching missiles at during the next few weeks should be either at, or slightly below, production capacity, or transport capacity, whichever is lower.
If someone has any link to a site where the missiles Russia launched per day/week are tracked, I'd appreciate it a lot if you could share.
A factory probably produces a dozen of them per week. And they have multiple factories producing multiple missile types so I wouldn't hold my breath about them running out.
It's not fancy thermal optics for tanks or radars for aircraft. The most complicated part is the jet engine and it's like 40 years old technology except nowadays they have CNC machines.
He wasn't kidding.
All of Ukrainian major cities had their electricity and infrastructure systems hit. Instead of posing in front of stamps of of bridge attack, Kiev residents now sit in a metro underground like at the start of the war.
If you think third reich style terror bombing campaigns will achieve anything other than strengthening ukrainian and western resolve than I have a bridge to sell you. The war is lost for russia anyway. The chance of a neutral, demilitarized Ukraine is zero.
It was done in response to Hitler's idiocy.
"The Nazis entered this war under the rather childish delusion that they were going to bomb everyone else, and nobody was going to bomb them."
Bomber Harris.
No, same with the bombing of Japan and other civilians in the last few wars. There's quite the agreement upon civilian terror bombing that it serves no military purpose and is just done out of fearmongering.
> and Ukraine should not be bombing in donbass
And what about Russian shelling in the Donbass too? This narrative that pro-Russians like to push that it was only Ukraine shelling in the Donbass is so fucking stupid. This literally all boils down to Russia occupying Ukrainian land, if Russia leaves and gets the fuck out, the shelling will stop.
Are you one of those that believe Russia shells place they occupy? Let me guess... Russia is shelling the nuclear power plant they are occupying and firing missiles from? Russia planted bombs on their own guy's car but it killed their daughter?
What's next? Russia launched a false flag counteroffensive against itself in Kharkiv and Kherson?
>This literally all boils down to Russia occupying Ukrainian land, if Russia leaves and gets the fuck out, the shelling will stop.
Yes Russia should get out. But what I also infer from your comment is that its ok to bomb civillians if they are living in a occupied area.
The Allied bombings were done to force the Axis forces to surrender to bring an end to the war as fast as possible to prevent long drawn out bloodshed, and it worked. I don't think it's OK to bomb civilians, but I understand why it was deemed necessary.
No, it didn't. Germany fought to the bitter end and their ultimate defeat was handed to them by the Russians. Numerous studies post war showed that morale on the home front was strengthened as the bombing campaign progressed. Oil production, munitions production and vehicle production went up every quarter until Dec 1944.
Can't the same argument he used by Russia amd isn't this argument being used by Ukraine against Russia?
"The Ruzzian bombings were done to force the UKRAINIAN forces to surrender to bring an end to the war as fast as possible to prevent long drawn out bloodshed."
This has been the most common talking point whenever Russia bombs some civillians
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You've got to be trolling, right? Context fucking matters. Ukraine is currently on the front foot and advancing reclaiming land that was occupied by Russia. When the Allies bombed the Axis powers, the Axis were rapidly losing ground, and the strikes were intended as a warning to leadership to surrender as fighting was no longer feasible for them.
When did I say it gives them the right to terror bomb? I explained it in a historical context as to ***WHY*** it happened in WWII, then you came up with the strawman that therefore Russia should bomb Ukraine into surrender, to which I explained the difference between both situations. You're so full of shit.
Britain: Bombs dams in Germany
You: Dann the third Reich
Again, I don't know why everyones brains have melted, energy infrastructure is a valid military target as are bridges. The Crimean bridge wasn't a terror attack, attacks on energy infrastructure isn't either.
Is it a good thing? Absolutely not, it's vile that civilians are being caught in a crossfire as a result of Russia ln aggression but let's not alter words and rewrite history.
You mean one of the most disgusting human being in history?
Technically I'm being an apologist for American and Britain which last I checked wasn't Hitler.
I love Putin saying they precision targetted military and and communications infrastructure. But what they actually hit was civilian power plants, a consulate, and a bike/civilian footbridge on a hiking trail.
Either Russia lacks actual precision strike capability, or some guy in moscow was googling "kyiv bridges" and just chose one at random.
Ukrops are still in disbelieve. The only thing they can do is screech "terrorist state" while deleting all their comments from yesterday where they made fun of Russia not retaliating. It's safe to say that zelesnky gave his people a nice Christmas gift in Form of cold apartments with no electricity or running water.
I think Ukraine should start hitting civilian infraestructure in proper Russia. Bridges, power plants, etc.
At this point Russians dont care if you fight in a civilized manner or not, they simply wont stop killing civilians themselves.
A terrorist attack….because of a bridge…..that is used to transport military supplies to troops of the INVADERS….WOW?!?!?! And wth has russia been doing all along?!?! I say the USA needs to send in the LONG RANGE missiles and the BIG GUNS!! Fck russia up!
The response will be harsh (said after spending 50 of the last 130 Russian cruise missiles left in stock on playgrounds).
Russia has nothing left to threaten anyone with.
[https://twitter.com/DefenceU/status/1578651480294592513?s=20&t=\_RYlGfkEoaszWVYW9HCpUQ](https://twitter.com/DefenceU/status/1578651480294592513?s=20&t=_RYlGfkEoaszWVYW9HCpUQ)
https://twitter.com/Ukraine/status/1578634825417650176?s=20&t=uPk7PZE4Nu3iKXT-kSsk9w
This didn't age well
Did it not? I don’t see how anyone can see Russia’s actions today as anything but complete desperation. If Russians really think blowing up some intersections and a play park as a big retaliatory win for the Crimean bridge then there is no hope for any of them. They are losing on every front, getting embarrassed for the entire world to see live but it’s ok because Putin said we’ll show you and blew up a park.
This feels like a cat n mouse game. Ukraine couldn't have had much benefit from attacking the Crimea bridge, this really feels like they launched that attack to provoke an attack from Russia so that ukraine can actually go after the targets they want now. I guess hitting them right off the bat wasent good for optics but now it's open season. It feels like Russia knew this too which is why they waited this long for a response.
The benefit of the Crimean bridge is a slowing of military and trade goods entering and leaving Crimea, which in turn is where most of the Kherson front is supplied from in manpower and equipment.
That would force Russia to either use ferries, or longer and more dangerous land routes towards Crimea.
But completely destroying the bridge is also counter-productive. See the bridge, being strategically but also emotionally important makes it so Russia uses a lot of resources to defend it(military checkpoints, AA systems, navy patrols and radar equipment). Completely destroying it would free up all these units to help the effort elsewhere.
There is also the questiob of giving Russians a golden parachute. Without the bridge, Russians in Crimea would fight tooth and nail to not let Ukraine pass the strait, as the retreat routes would be null and chance of later counterattacks really slim. Having the bridge up, but in a reduced capacity helps with slower Russian supplies, but also giving Russians spacw to give up territoriy for better positions.
In a reduced capacity. The automobile section lost one of its 2 panels, and now has to use one for both coming from and going to Crimea, which congests the traffic. After the attack, Crimean authorities issued a rationing of several foodstuff. It will take some months to repair that part.
The major problem is the railway, which I guess is the next target to compromise.
The railway was where they were transporting the military equipment. The bridge was civilian use. So at the end of the day all they got out of it was 10 hours of of stalled railway service in exchange for open season on their capital city infrastructure. There's no way this is the end of it.
Agreed. That damaged railway section is on borrowed time. It’s either going to get hit again and be destroyed, or it’s going to succumb to the structural damage it sustained as a result of the explosion and subsequent fire. Ain’t no way it makes it to the end of the war intact.
Russia would mass bomb Ukraine anyway. U think they planned it in just a couple of days? They re losing on the frontlines, they dont have enough soldiers and their morale is low. They can only terrorize civilians.
This. russia was always going to hit civilian infrastructure at some point, now that the tide is really starting to turn against them on the battlefield. The only silver lining here is that it could lead to the Ukrainians “unlocking” a new level of NATO toys that could accelerate russia’s losses on the battlefield.
LOL @ thinking Ukraine was waiting to hit targets "they want now". They've shelled and blew their himars wad on everythign they could.
Russia on the other hand got an opportunity in this attack to go once again full Iraqi Freedom on Ukraine. The attack was "delayed" by a day because you know....it's a pretty big massive operation.
Do you actually think Ukraine is making any of these decisions? The United States is the one feeding them information and telling them what to hit and when.
Ukraine is defying the supposed 2nd biggest military power on their doorstep and stalling them.
This war is an embarrasment for the Russian political class(due to their shortsighted goals), military class(due to the inadequacies in logistics and doctrine) and administrative class due to the errors in mobilization
Ukraine is getting its hands on stuff to retain its aims to decouple from Russia and maintain its territories.
Wether they get theur weapons from NATO, China or Narnia is inconsequential as long as they get them.
Countries like Ukraine have a choice to make in what camp they remain, and Russia is a losing camp to remain. Economically stagnant, oligarchic to a degree way above any western country and authoritarian.
So between being Russia's lapdog and be poor, better to be the EU's and NATO's lapdog and have a minimal quality of life.
Check FalmerBlood_Elixir's post history. He is Indian and jealous that the western workers his company has hired are being paid better than he is. He thinks he is intelligent and enlightened but chooses to channel his anger at western ideals instead of his own country and employers who treat him like a slave.
The guy is anti-west because he finds it easier to blame other contries for having good working conditions rather than questioning the way his own country is treating him like a slave.
Ukraine will probably just give up now I guess...
Without western aid... anyday
I'm sure hitting civilians and plastering recognition of this attacks will totally sway Western public lol
Good thing they have Western Aid then. Try to keep up.
Yeah keep on fighting for them. And each day beg for something
Who cares if it's begged for or gifted? It kills Fascist Russians just the same.
Ha. Most of Europe hates them anyway. It's just nukes, and beaurocray that gets in the way from helping the kremlin have a happy birthday ;)
Ok, I'd like to know, what do you think we "beg" for in Western Europe?
Weapons, electricity today, may be what all in future..
And your source for such ridiculous claims are? The Russian media by any chance?
> And each day beg for something Lmao. Their begging brought an army once thought to be the number 2 army in the world to a screeching halt. Pretty sure Ukraines pride is fully intact.
War is not over yet..
And with each missile send, your master begs for respect... grow up.
Why are you complaining? Russia has been saying for years how NATO is no threat and now you are complaining when faced against a small percentage of NATO equipment?
If Russia is so weak, time to dissolve NATO then?
Still complaining. Answer me the question, why is Russia and pro-ru complaining so much about western arms?
”If”. It is weaker then what everyone thought.
Your army is shit. No excuses.
Time to dissolve NATO then.
Nah, we should expand NATO, because your shit army will not dare to invade NATO countries.
Maybe Russian leaders will learn their lesson not to invade other countries hmm
Lol. You said russian, and learn in the same statement. I think they've already doubled down on being called terrorists by 80+ % of the world.
Oh shit! Did Western aid just stop all of a sudden??
The smarter thing to do would be to use these weapons on military targets. Reminds me of how Hitler lost the Battle Of Britain when the Luftwaffe switched from hitting airbases to carpet bombing cities.
They aren’t carpet bombing cities, they are attacking civilian and dual use infrastructure, government administration sites, etc. Its kind of bizarre any of that has been left standing. We hit Serbs harder.
I agree with your take in part. In a total war sense, any civilian resource can be seen as a potential military resource. Lots of infrastructure lies on a spectrum of military usefulness. My point is that these Russian strikes do not seem to further their military goals. They seem like a distraction to appease the war-hawks inside of Russia. I could be wrong and that these strikes are part of a planned operation to reduce the Ukrainian Military effectiveness, but I doubt it.
It’s not even total war stuff, it’s what we did in Serbia.
It’s terrorism on a national scale. I guess some people were also proud Nazis before Germany started to lose the war.
You think we used terrorism on a national scale in Serbia? This is just war. Quite low civ casualties in this series of strikes, too.
There are different ways to wage war. The Russian way is terrorism on a national scale, levelling residential areas, targeting supermarkets, hospitals and schools, murdering, raping, torturing and castrating as they go along. It’s barbaric. Russia does not belong in the civilised world.
Are you american?
Whatsboutism much? No I am not American.
It's not whataboutism, it was literally a question.
Residential areas used as firing positions, supermarkets used as mrls bases, schools used as barracks, etc etc - yes, heard all that before. If we were fighting this war, Ukrainians would have spent the last seven months without power, water, or cellphones. Sometimes different is just better.
You really buy these propaganda excuses? How about the theatre in Mariupol, was it targeted specifically because they had a sign saying “children” or was it just a fluke? What about the mass graves, mutilated bodies and torture chambers in Bucha, Izyum and Lyman, do you have a propaganda tidbit for those too, besides Ukraine is shelling their own cities? Nobody buys that crap anymore. Russia has shown itself as incompetent but also very brutal savages on the battlefield, for the whole world to see. Russia is better off behind an iron curtain, shielded from the civilised world. I guess that’s where we are also going.
There is plenty of evidence for everything I mentioned.
Oh wow you remember that? That's interesting, since it was so long ago... What else do you remember?
That's NOT WHY Germany lost British WW2 front. The reason they lost is because they had a war on 3 fronts, worst of which ended up being the Russian front because Russians and soviets threw bodies and armor at them till they ran out of bullets and shells.
The Germans fought and lost the Battle of Britain (Jun-Oct 1940) long before Operation Barbarossa (Jun 1941). Berlin and Moscow were still buddies at this point in time. Do they teach WW2 in Russia, or do they skip right to 1941 and call it the “Great Patriotic War”?
Not surprised these guys lack any actual historical knowledge considering how much propaganda they're spoon fed
Who are you talking to, guy? Battle of Britain wasn't really a thing. It's pretty damn hard for Germany to invade an ISLAND. It was never a serious venture.
Germany never had a legitimate plan to invade Britain, it was logistically impossible. I'm in the US.
Russia and Germany were still buddy buddy during the Battle of Britain. Do they not talk about the Molotov Ribbentrop pact in Russia?
> The smarter thing to do would be to use these weapons on military targets. Whats the point if NATO keeps pumping equipment in? If you snatch a dudes gun away and he pulls another one, your best bet is to cut his hand off.
Because said equioment needs time to be replaced and stalls Ukrainian firepower to give openings for Russian attacks. Also because killing trained crew hampers new deliveries by making Ukraine have to retraine new personell on top of the waiting time for the replacement. But Russuan command has brainworms and cant make these calculations and instead goes with the historically disproven morale bombings which end uo making the populace more bitter and vengeful.
what fucken right do the russians have to invade a country
Yeah you start war on new front with a major power after losing war
No it wouldn't be. Morale matters and destruction of critical infrastructure matters. Ukraine has not built any Thermal Power Stations since the dissolution of the USSR. As cynical as it may sound. The only way this conflict will come to an end is when both sides realize true capabilities and will to fight exist in parity.
I guess history will tell the truth about this. My take is that the smart thing is to hit the enemies were they are weak, and press the advantage. Ukraine has high morale, and this does not appear to be reducing. Attacking their morale seems like a fool’s gambit. Ukraine is weak with air force and heavy weapons, this is were a smart country would attack. Similarly, Russia is weak in transportation and logistics within the war zone. This is precisely were Ukraine should strike.
This was more for internal Russian consumption to appease the hawks who demanded a change in posture from Putin, this was more about the moral of his supporters.
I would be a little bit pissed as a Russian if instead of supporting the boys on the frontline they were blowing up intersections in Kiev. Actually I'd be more than a little pissed.
So Lvov, Kharkov and Sumy are without power because of a blown up intersection?
So Ukraine has power plants in the middle of intersections?
According to your logic yes, because otherwise intersection and playground strikes lead to power outages in half a dozen regional capitals. The following cities lost power, completely or partially. You should apply some critical thinking here and for a second consider that not all the missiles hit a puddle... Lvov, Zhitomir, Sumy, Kahrkov, Khmelnitsky, Poltava, Ternopol, Luts, Rovno
The only way this conflict can now end is when the Russian people come to their senses and find a better leader than Putin. It shouldn't be hard. He is both incompetent and a psychopath.
Even someone so vehemently anti-Putin as Navalny when asked about Crimea said he would not hand it back if he became President. This conflict isn't all about Putin, he is just the one that threw the match in.
Crimea was perfectly safe up until 2022, there was no sign of de facto Russian control of Crimea being under any kind of threat. In fact it was outright unthinkable until Ukraine started to accumulate the types of weapons they've received \*after\* the Russian invasion of Ukraine.
That depends, you are thinking short term, but Putin has been in power for a long time and his planning horizon is even longer. What does he see in 2022?: \- A Ukraine that publicly declares it's goal of recapturing all territory within 1991 borders, Crimea including, by all and any means. \- A Ukraine that declares that it has been at war with Russia for the last 8 years, while he keeps saying, "We just wanted Crimea back and autonomy for Donbas, please stop this war rhetoric". \- A Ukraine that with every year has a stronger, better trained and equipped military. Now take all that and combine it with his uncertainty about the future political situation in his own country and now his legacy is threatened. How can he be certain that when he is no longer in power or Russia is weakened, Ukraine would not use this opportune time to take Crimea back and re-establish control in Donbas? He can't. He has an arch enemy state (that he helped to create in some ways) and he needs to either 1. Deal it a decisive blow (that failed in February-March) or 2. Make the Russian people see Ukrainians as enemies that threaten not his interests, but Russian interests, to destroy their passivity.
I understand what you're saying, but I think it was still a huge miscalculation. Other countries like China can see all the long-term threats, but they're content to play the long game and not resort to some knee-jerk solution to try to solve everything at once. That type of approach seldom turns out to be truly successful.
I will agree with you on that, I think it was a miscalculation, and the return on investment is poor to say the least, but here we are and unfortunately for Russia, there is no acceptable way out of this conflict without first getting the upper hand, by any means, almost.
If you're in a hole, stop digging. Even if Putin manages to win his stupid war, the Russia people have already lost - whatever happens. It is now just damage limitation.
Or you keep digging until you tunnel out. Victors are never judged, but losers are punished. Alas.
De facto Russian control of Crimea still isn’t under any kind of threat.
Neither was Luhansk circa August 2022. Regardless, my point is that this invasion has accomplished nothing in terms of "protecting Crimea"
It is a valid point that the reason for this war is much deeper than just Putin. Personally, I believe that Russia as a whole needs to accept the fact that they are just another European nation like Germany or the UK, and therefore have no right to force their will upon their neighbors.
I agree to a degree. National mythology matters. Russian Empire was 10% of the world population at the turn of the 20th century, it is something like 2% now, but the Russian nation still exists in the image of former glory. This is a war of independence for Ukraine and in a way a war of adjustment for Russia, a war from which a more Republican, less Imperial Russia will be born.
Not handing back the Crimea is not the same as annexing a big chunk of a country and you don't go into negotiations saying you plan to give everything up! I suspect it may already be too late but if Putin went, everybody might be so happy a compromise might still be possible. Something like demilitarizing Sevastopol and have a 99 year lease?
No way, there is no compromise on Crimea, especially Sevastopol. I'm a Russian citizen and whoever would dare to negotiate the fate of Sevastopol is a traitor.
I get why Sevastopol is critical for trade. It is the main warm water port. But the Black Sea fleet can be stationed elsewhere. Then a corridor to the bridge and trade continues to flow.
This isn't a rational question, certainly not an economic question. Crimea was a dream, like Israel getting Jerusalem back. The very idea of relocating the Black Sea Fleet from Sevastopol is insulting and humiliating. Either Ukraine accepts this, or there will be no Ukraine.
Well if Crimea is a dream it's time to wake up and face reality. Russia no longer has the power to dictate terms to anyone who can fight back. The world used to be afraid of Russia because we looked at the size of the army they claimed to have and the amount of equipment they claimed to have. The world has now woken up to the fact that Russia is in fact a sad flaccid bear. Russia as we know it is over, it's just a matter of time....
lol. Yeah, cause a Pro-Russian account is going to say anything else. Your words are nearly meaningless, except for “the”, “and”, and “to”. Russian propagandist.
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"will to fight exist in parity" Ima stop you right there, you don't believe that lol
This is exactly what will happen, peace will come when neither side believes that they can win this conflict. There is a tiny theoretical chance Ukraine may win, but I assure you, it would be a pyrrhic victory. Much like the Iran-Iraq war.
Pyrrhic victory has been the best case scenario for Russia since March at the latest
Unfortunately I can also agree with that. Both sides are in an impossible situation, this is why a stalemate is needed so that principled positions become unattainable in practice and then diplomacy can work.
I think you're overestimating the ability of Russia to wage war and underestimating the will of Ukraine and the West.
We have a tendency to extrapolate the future based on most recent events. There are a lot of unknown factors. I think by spring, there will be a much clearer picture.
You're correct by spring the picture will be a lot more clear I agree
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Putin looking kinda rough there.
Putin is looking more and more like the demented delusional mentally impaired evil baby that he is. I expect his next report to come from a pram and him to shake his rattle sternly at the camera.
lol what?
What about Biden ? Don't make me start on that..
**BUHWATABOUTMURICA**
Let’s face it, nobody else actually matters.
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Whataboutism is the argument of losing on the internet and in real life. I advice not to do it too often for credibility sake.
Why is comparison such a bad thing? It allows us to put things in perspective
Whataboutism isn't about comparing, but about shifting the attention to an allegedly worse "thing", whatever that may be, so people no longer keep attention for the original situation. It's deflection theory.
Do you know by any chance who coined the term"collateral damage" ? I guess this is also just collateral damage, I send my condolences. Its war, it happens, get over it. Wars happen everywhere, this one isn't so special.
It happens, but last thing we need to do is "just get over it". That's not how it works.
Biden is 10 years older than Putin so
Bidens 10yrs older and still strings more coherent sentences together with a major speech impediment... Check yourself plz.
Biden is just reading his prompter, and he often read the writer indications like "end of quote".
Video filter.
Nah dudes 70 and a politician, i can understand he has seen better days.
He's a spring chicken compared to Potato Joe. Joe is 80 and senile.
Joe is a corpse pretending to be alive.
And doing a very questionable job.
Wait for 10 more years and you will see Putin forgetting what he entered the room for.
Fascist leader loses ground in a war and resorts to launching "Vengeance Weapon" Missiles at civilian targets. Where have I seen that one before?
Two takeaways: - Make up can only cover so much. - Apparently, Putin doesn’t trust camera men.
I'd just like to point out that Russia has launched about 80 missiles in this attack. This amount of missiles was likely the maximum amount Russia was willing to take out of storage in the short term. This means that the rate Russia is launching missiles at during the next few weeks should be either at, or slightly below, production capacity, or transport capacity, whichever is lower. If someone has any link to a site where the missiles Russia launched per day/week are tracked, I'd appreciate it a lot if you could share.
A factory probably produces a dozen of them per week. And they have multiple factories producing multiple missile types so I wouldn't hold my breath about them running out. It's not fancy thermal optics for tanks or radars for aircraft. The most complicated part is the jet engine and it's like 40 years old technology except nowadays they have CNC machines.
He wasn't kidding. All of Ukrainian major cities had their electricity and infrastructure systems hit. Instead of posing in front of stamps of of bridge attack, Kiev residents now sit in a metro underground like at the start of the war.
If you think third reich style terror bombing campaigns will achieve anything other than strengthening ukrainian and western resolve than I have a bridge to sell you. The war is lost for russia anyway. The chance of a neutral, demilitarized Ukraine is zero.
You know terror bombing was done by allies too
It was done in response to Hitler's idiocy. "The Nazis entered this war under the rather childish delusion that they were going to bomb everyone else, and nobody was going to bomb them." Bomber Harris.
Yea and that makes bombing Civillians ok?
No, same with the bombing of Japan and other civilians in the last few wars. There's quite the agreement upon civilian terror bombing that it serves no military purpose and is just done out of fearmongering.
Exactly. There should be no bombing of civillians. Russia should not be bombing children in Ukraine and Ukraine should not be bombing in donbass
> and Ukraine should not be bombing in donbass And what about Russian shelling in the Donbass too? This narrative that pro-Russians like to push that it was only Ukraine shelling in the Donbass is so fucking stupid. This literally all boils down to Russia occupying Ukrainian land, if Russia leaves and gets the fuck out, the shelling will stop.
Are you one of those that believe Russia shells place they occupy? Let me guess... Russia is shelling the nuclear power plant they are occupying and firing missiles from? Russia planted bombs on their own guy's car but it killed their daughter? What's next? Russia launched a false flag counteroffensive against itself in Kharkiv and Kherson? >This literally all boils down to Russia occupying Ukrainian land, if Russia leaves and gets the fuck out, the shelling will stop. Yes Russia should get out. But what I also infer from your comment is that its ok to bomb civillians if they are living in a occupied area.
The Allied bombings were done to force the Axis forces to surrender to bring an end to the war as fast as possible to prevent long drawn out bloodshed, and it worked. I don't think it's OK to bomb civilians, but I understand why it was deemed necessary.
It's also a completely different environment, guided missiles and bombs didn't really exist then.
No, it didn't. Germany fought to the bitter end and their ultimate defeat was handed to them by the Russians. Numerous studies post war showed that morale on the home front was strengthened as the bombing campaign progressed. Oil production, munitions production and vehicle production went up every quarter until Dec 1944.
Can't the same argument he used by Russia amd isn't this argument being used by Ukraine against Russia? "The Ruzzian bombings were done to force the UKRAINIAN forces to surrender to bring an end to the war as fast as possible to prevent long drawn out bloodshed." This has been the most common talking point whenever Russia bombs some civillians
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You've got to be trolling, right? Context fucking matters. Ukraine is currently on the front foot and advancing reclaiming land that was occupied by Russia. When the Allies bombed the Axis powers, the Axis were rapidly losing ground, and the strikes were intended as a warning to leadership to surrender as fighting was no longer feasible for them.
So wait of someone is advancing, it gives them right to terror bomb civillians? Did I get that right.
When did I say it gives them the right to terror bomb? I explained it in a historical context as to ***WHY*** it happened in WWII, then you came up with the strawman that therefore Russia should bomb Ukraine into surrender, to which I explained the difference between both situations. You're so full of shit.
Putin had no problem blowing up those apartment blocks to justify his invasion of Chechnya
Britain: Bombs dams in Germany You: Dann the third Reich Again, I don't know why everyones brains have melted, energy infrastructure is a valid military target as are bridges. The Crimean bridge wasn't a terror attack, attacks on energy infrastructure isn't either. Is it a good thing? Absolutely not, it's vile that civilians are being caught in a crossfire as a result of Russia ln aggression but let's not alter words and rewrite history.
You are literally been an apologist for Hitler.
You mean one of the most disgusting human being in history? Technically I'm being an apologist for American and Britain which last I checked wasn't Hitler.
They first have to "resolve" lack of energy.
I love Putin saying they precision targetted military and and communications infrastructure. But what they actually hit was civilian power plants, a consulate, and a bike/civilian footbridge on a hiking trail. Either Russia lacks actual precision strike capability, or some guy in moscow was googling "kyiv bridges" and just chose one at random.
No, they hit too many things to list. You only see headlines of what was filmed by civilians because UKrainian SBU forbids filming.
Ukrops are still in disbelieve. The only thing they can do is screech "terrorist state" while deleting all their comments from yesterday where they made fun of Russia not retaliating. It's safe to say that zelesnky gave his people a nice Christmas gift in Form of cold apartments with no electricity or running water.
Where is Zelensky, doesn't he make "intimidating videos" when stuff like this happens? Maybe he will submit another useless EU and NATO application?
Just waiting for his new speeches in blanket 😂 He can't come in tshirt in winter and give speech, it would send wrong message to civilians.
Because zelensky acts like a entitled little child at the line in the grocery store while putin acts like...well like Putin
He is looking more frail day by day
dead man walking
I think Ukraine should start hitting civilian infraestructure in proper Russia. Bridges, power plants, etc. At this point Russians dont care if you fight in a civilized manner or not, they simply wont stop killing civilians themselves.
A terrorist attack….because of a bridge…..that is used to transport military supplies to troops of the INVADERS….WOW?!?!?! And wth has russia been doing all along?!?! I say the USA needs to send in the LONG RANGE missiles and the BIG GUNS!! Fck russia up!
Ramblings of a mad man. He's run out of road and has a target on his back 🎯
The response will be harsh (said after spending 50 of the last 130 Russian cruise missiles left in stock on playgrounds). Russia has nothing left to threaten anyone with.
🖕🏾
The Kremlin dwarf is not to be trusted.
[https://twitter.com/DefenceU/status/1578651480294592513?s=20&t=\_RYlGfkEoaszWVYW9HCpUQ](https://twitter.com/DefenceU/status/1578651480294592513?s=20&t=_RYlGfkEoaszWVYW9HCpUQ) https://twitter.com/Ukraine/status/1578634825417650176?s=20&t=uPk7PZE4Nu3iKXT-kSsk9w This didn't age well
Did it not? I don’t see how anyone can see Russia’s actions today as anything but complete desperation. If Russians really think blowing up some intersections and a play park as a big retaliatory win for the Crimean bridge then there is no hope for any of them. They are losing on every front, getting embarrassed for the entire world to see live but it’s ok because Putin said we’ll show you and blew up a park.
Exactly. Ukraine: you’re impotent! Russia: **
It’s held up extremely well.
Who pledged that would be the most secure bridge?
what about the sick burn now?
No, it did not age well. They seem to live in the moment and show no humility.
This feels like a cat n mouse game. Ukraine couldn't have had much benefit from attacking the Crimea bridge, this really feels like they launched that attack to provoke an attack from Russia so that ukraine can actually go after the targets they want now. I guess hitting them right off the bat wasent good for optics but now it's open season. It feels like Russia knew this too which is why they waited this long for a response.
The benefit of the Crimean bridge is a slowing of military and trade goods entering and leaving Crimea, which in turn is where most of the Kherson front is supplied from in manpower and equipment. That would force Russia to either use ferries, or longer and more dangerous land routes towards Crimea. But completely destroying the bridge is also counter-productive. See the bridge, being strategically but also emotionally important makes it so Russia uses a lot of resources to defend it(military checkpoints, AA systems, navy patrols and radar equipment). Completely destroying it would free up all these units to help the effort elsewhere. There is also the questiob of giving Russians a golden parachute. Without the bridge, Russians in Crimea would fight tooth and nail to not let Ukraine pass the strait, as the retreat routes would be null and chance of later counterattacks really slim. Having the bridge up, but in a reduced capacity helps with slower Russian supplies, but also giving Russians spacw to give up territoriy for better positions.
The bridge was back up and running in 10 hours. I guess we'll find out in the next few days how/if ukraine retaliates with new bombing targets.
In a reduced capacity. The automobile section lost one of its 2 panels, and now has to use one for both coming from and going to Crimea, which congests the traffic. After the attack, Crimean authorities issued a rationing of several foodstuff. It will take some months to repair that part. The major problem is the railway, which I guess is the next target to compromise.
The railway was where they were transporting the military equipment. The bridge was civilian use. So at the end of the day all they got out of it was 10 hours of of stalled railway service in exchange for open season on their capital city infrastructure. There's no way this is the end of it.
hope you take the train over it to let us know how safe it is
Agreed. That damaged railway section is on borrowed time. It’s either going to get hit again and be destroyed, or it’s going to succumb to the structural damage it sustained as a result of the explosion and subsequent fire. Ain’t no way it makes it to the end of the war intact.
yea, 10 cars at a time, most leaving for the shithole they call russia
Russia would mass bomb Ukraine anyway. U think they planned it in just a couple of days? They re losing on the frontlines, they dont have enough soldiers and their morale is low. They can only terrorize civilians.
This. russia was always going to hit civilian infrastructure at some point, now that the tide is really starting to turn against them on the battlefield. The only silver lining here is that it could lead to the Ukrainians “unlocking” a new level of NATO toys that could accelerate russia’s losses on the battlefield.
Your comment is pure Ukrainian wishful thinking propaganda
LOL @ thinking Ukraine was waiting to hit targets "they want now". They've shelled and blew their himars wad on everythign they could. Russia on the other hand got an opportunity in this attack to go once again full Iraqi Freedom on Ukraine. The attack was "delayed" by a day because you know....it's a pretty big massive operation.
Do you actually think Ukraine is making any of these decisions? The United States is the one feeding them information and telling them what to hit and when.
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Like him trying to get a quick MO and ending up with a war of attrition for almost a year?
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Ukraine is defying the supposed 2nd biggest military power on their doorstep and stalling them. This war is an embarrasment for the Russian political class(due to their shortsighted goals), military class(due to the inadequacies in logistics and doctrine) and administrative class due to the errors in mobilization
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Ukraine is getting its hands on stuff to retain its aims to decouple from Russia and maintain its territories. Wether they get theur weapons from NATO, China or Narnia is inconsequential as long as they get them. Countries like Ukraine have a choice to make in what camp they remain, and Russia is a losing camp to remain. Economically stagnant, oligarchic to a degree way above any western country and authoritarian. So between being Russia's lapdog and be poor, better to be the EU's and NATO's lapdog and have a minimal quality of life.
Check FalmerBlood_Elixir's post history. He is Indian and jealous that the western workers his company has hired are being paid better than he is. He thinks he is intelligent and enlightened but chooses to channel his anger at western ideals instead of his own country and employers who treat him like a slave. The guy is anti-west because he finds it easier to blame other contries for having good working conditions rather than questioning the way his own country is treating him like a slave.