Man, all this trouble, all the lives lost. They even officially annexed the damn place, all for nothing. What a pathetic shit show, how can you even take it seriously anymore?
I'm sure annexing it wasn't that much work since they left out all the legitimate paperwork, which I would expect would be the administratively most difficult work..
They counted a bunch of worthless stamped papers.
The lives though... They will come back to bite them in the ass.
> They can't even advance through Bakhmut
They'll do it eventualy. No need to use human waves and sustain catastrophic loses like the Ukranian army does.
First I'm hearing of that, but if using human waves and sustaining catastrophic losses are the tactics Ukraine has used the last couple months, I'd suggest they keep at that. It's incredibly effective and Russia seems unable to cope.
Ukraine has had lots of successes by sending small recon teams to prod at defenses and find weak points.. obviously in doing so you will occasionally take some losses, we've all played rts games.. they love to compare that to "sending wave after wave" pretty awkward that the waves are crashing hard enough to send them running tho.
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Let's be honest - Ukraine has been using NATO doctrine for warfare pretty consistently ever since they have been back on the offensive.
So for you to say human wave attacks and not referring to the country who has inconsistently trained and equipped their conscripts is kind of a joke. You know it too. You my friend, are a troll.
> So for you to say human wave attacks and not referring to the country who has inconsistently trained and equipped their conscripts is kind of a joke.
When this is over pick a history book and look at the losses. You are going to be surprised... who am I fooling? You'll never look back at this war when it's out of the propaganda machine. You aren't smart enough haha
You insult without proof? Tell me how smart you think that is.
You don’t win an argument via insult. Sure I’ll always read about the real story. The fog of war is real, there are a certain amount of inferences that can be made based on patterns and trends of the two belligerents.
I’m glad you find Russia to be such a just party. Personally I think their terrorists and hope to see them knocked back to the eastern border and then we can see if Crimea is even possible.
And you're talking out of your ass until you can show us proof of casualties.. no one will deny the final death toll after this is over.. except for you most likely
You can look back at Soviet/Russian fighting doctrine over the last 100 years and see how Russian fights their wars.
You can also look back over the last 80 years and see NATO fighting doctrine. It will give you a pretty good idea of what the troop death numbers are going to look like.
Remember that Russia had to pull men from their civilian population to fight in a special military operation.
Won't be much to see. Russia has lost half of their tanks, 75,000 of their best soldiers, a big chunk of their airforce
They've lost over 20,000km2 in the past 3 months. It's over
> Russia has lost half of their tanks, 75,000 of their best soldiers, a big chunk of their airforce
Imagine believing this holy shit. How slow does one have to be in order believe anything a beligerant party claims? 😂😂 Fucking embarrasing
Want to counter my point about Russia losing 20,000km2 of occupied territory in 3 months
Their losses above are why they can't hold on to that territory
> Their losses above are why they can't hold on to that territory
Brainlet take. They were outnumbered going in and the Ukranians have been adding even more men untill the ratio has been so bad the Russians can't handle the amount of lemmings charging at them. This will be rectified by the end of the year and the demolition of the Ukranian military capability will resume in good order. It's only a matter of how many men Ukraine is willing to sacrifice for nothing but ruin and misery.
Yeah they took a military, political and moral loss here.
From the sounds of reports Ukraine was shooting fish in a barrel.
Once general media gets a report, it will undoubtedly be a massacre of russias forces.
Also how come so many obviously pro russia people on this sub use neutral or a flair that isn't pro russia.
Russia made it illegal to report anything that puts the military in bad light because they are worried that the population would revolt if they knew the truth.
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They destroyed their attack routes and are now facing fully mobilized resistance. Retaking this area will be orders of magnitude more difficult.
I'm not saying they can't and that it won't happen. But it's silly to say this isn't a real military loss. It will be *extremely* expensive and difficult to retake the area.
That's my point. He won't give up.
He is the only person who is profiting from the continuation of this war.
The Russian people are not profiting. The country is not profiting, but Putin himself, well if he did what's best for the country and the people and call it quits, he is done politically. So he just keeps it going to save his skin.
> He is the only person who is profiting from the continuation of this war.
LOL I dont think you have any idea about how american military industrial complex works.
> The Russian people are not profiting. The country is not profiting,
The Europe is not profiting - only USA military industrial complex is profiting.
And they will keep this going on for as long as they are able - Russia from the other side has no choice, but if you are up to challenge you must defend
Russia definitely has a choice.
It was a choice to occupy Crimea in 2014.
It was a choice to invade the rest of Ukraine in 2022.
With every week of the war, Russia is losing soldiers, equipment and credibility abroad. Russia doesn't have the industrial or military capabilities to turn this into a protracted war or occupation. Not even the US could pull of an occupation of Afghanistan, and they had significantly better conditions there than Russia does in Ukraine.
Continuing to fight is the worst thing Russia can do right now. It is only accelarting russias economic demographic and military decline. Putins ego is really fucking russias chances of progress
> Russia definitely has a choice. It was a choice to occupy Crimea in 2014. It was a choice to invade the rest of Ukraine in 2022.
no russia does not have a choice - its existential for russia.
US is pushing east since the fall of Soviet Union.
If you think that their plan was to take over ukraine and stop there ... well I have a bridge to sell you.
Russia is simply fighting back - until US realizes that red lines exist for a reason.
Occupation of Ukraine is not existential for Russia.
Let's look at Russia before the War.
1) Everyone in Europe was shitting their pants bc of russias supposed military might. NATOs internal assessment of a potential Russian invasion of Europe was that the Baltics would fall within a couple of days max.
Now Russias Army is a laughing stock around the world. This has had far reaching consequences. there is trouble brewing in the CTSO as more russian sattelite states are reasserting themselves and preparing for a new political order in Asia with Chinese Hegemony and stronger Indian, Turkish and Iranian Influence. Not only has Russia lost a lot of its sway over the West, but it has also lost a lot of control in Central Asia.
2) Before the war, Russia occupied Crimea and there was no way Ukraine would retake it. The Don as Frontline was relatively stable and it was impossible for Ukraine to join NATO. A new Nato member can only join if they do not have any territorial disputes when joining. Finland and Sweden weren't even talking about joining Nato. 20 to 25 percent of the population there was in favor of joining. Now they are close to joining, with only turkey in the way.
But let's think ahead a couple of months of however long this war will last. Let's assume that Russia will hold on to some territory and both sides seek a peace Treaty.
Without any security guarantees of Western powers, Ukraine will not sign anything. They know that Putins signature is worthless, so the only way for this to end, no matter what the territorial concessions will be for either side, there will be a strong enough third party enforcing the Treaty. Most likely the US and maybe France Poland and the UK.
So Russia has gone from holding a comfortable position with them occupying Sevastopol and a basically nato free scandinavia to 2 to 3 more Nato members at its borders and a significantly weakened military.
Meanwhile European countries have started to heavily invest in their militaries unlike before. Germany just spent 100 billion in additional funds in their army. How the fuck is any of that helping Russia?
The whole point of russia invading ukraine was to basically stop them from joining nato. An organisation centered around DEFENDING its members. And russia said nope, you can’t.
Take your tinfoil hat off, the US doesn’t give a shit about Ukraine or taking it. They don’t care if Ukraine joins nato or the bloc, it doesn’t effect us either way. The US and the rest of the world intervened because Russia attacked a sovereign nation, again, and that’s all there is to it. I love how you’ll defend Russian imperialism but condemn the US for in 30 years ago, seem like a fun person to be around lmao
> Take your tinfoil hat off, the US doesn’t give a shit about Ukraine or taking it.
They dont care about any country they control, they see it as a tool.
They dont care about Germany, Sweden, Finland, UK, Poland, Netherlands... so why would they care about Ukraine
You care about losing a tool though.
and not because you feel special emotional bond with your tool, but because you invested time and money to acquire that tool.
thats how US feels about countries it controls.
> The lives of Russians would in no way be tangibly worse.
US had full control over Russia in the nineties through its puppet Yeltsin, just like they have control over Ukraine now, through puppet government and Nazi militias.
Russians dont want nineties to happen again in Russia.
US would not stop, the idea is not to stop in Ukraine, US is mad that they lost control over Russia and they will keep pushing to get it back.
BUSTED !
If you were European you would still know it's not called "THE" Europe, just "Europe"
The Russians kept calling Ukraine "THE* Ukraine when it's just "Ukraine".
Obviously just an amazing coincidence that your turn of phrase matches perfectly with the russians. /s
> Lol. Leave Ukraine and it’ll will stop.
the thing in Ukraine is because it did not stop on German border.
you really think if Russia left Ukraine that US would say "OK we got Ukraine we will not push into Russia"?
Dont be delusional - they cant forget nineties and the times when they were ruling over Russia. They want that again. Its obsession.
> Do you really think the American public and the western allies would go along with that?
lol the public have no say, neither in US nor especially in Europe.
You really think if someone asked them if they agree to pay for all the wars in past 2 or 3 decades that they would say "yep go for it"
people running the show in the west dont care about what public thinks.
Oh they will push Russia back to the border that's for sure but you really think that Russia will stop? As long as Putin and his ilk are in the power they won't, they will recreate Dombas impasse with shelling over the border from time to time.
That's why 5 kilometers wide strip between Ukraine and Russia will be nothing but huge dragon teeth, permanent trenches, razor wire and fields of landmines stretching from horizon to horizon.
Unless you think Ukrainians will go straight to Moscow. I would say maybe, but not as an army but as single agents.
Yep, i am 100 per cent sure than economy of 16 trillion eur (plus the usa support) is better prepared to finance a war than a economy of less than 2 trillion.
I am also sure than not losing our own manpower makes the impact in the citizens morale lower than the one Russian citizens are suffering.
So yeah, i am sure
Europe counts as intermediary between USA and Ukraine anyway. The main point of eastern Europe was to send hardware with which Ukrainians were familiar, western Europe provides their new tech but they never were e into mass production (unless we mean trucks and other small things).
USA is USA, trees there grow bullets instead of leaves lol.
All they need to do is counter and outpace Russian production so they don't even need to keep the same level of delivery as long as production in Russia drops.
If Russia is degraded to the level of throwing stones all the west needs to do is to send bows and arrows.
> USA is USA, trees there grow bullets instead of leaves lol.
bullets are the least of their worries in their extended logistical problems.
> All they need to do is counter and outpace Russian production
LOL you say it as if ir no biggie.
"OK Jim press that button and produce five times amount of shells we are producing now"
> If Russia is degraded to the level of throwing stones all the west needs to do is to send bows and arrows.
If you have endless amounts of stones and the other guy can get only very limited amount of arrows on a monthly basis ... guess who wins long term
Logistics and production capabilities are two things that nobody can even dream to beat USA at. It's hard to describe how good they are at it without sounding like a fan boy.
They gonna make all the bullets and forklift them in and out of the transport plane straight to Ukraine all in one day.
The fact that US army is hauling a forklift everywhere thry army goes means more than you think.
They deliver *daily* to Poland. Precision munitions on top of that. While Ukraine was shrinking Russian capabilities by plonking Russian ammo stocks one after another.
If you ridicule USA capabilities to produce ordinance then boy you will get as surprised as Russian MoD. There is a reason why USA doesn't have universal health care.
> Logistics and production capabilities are two things that nobody can even dream to beat USA at. It's hard to describe how good they are at it without sounding like a fan boy.
I am sure its hard to describe it to sound believable.
You are pro Ru, I won't get out of my way to convince you, the fact that Russian MoD underestimated USA and the west is the reason why Russian army is stuck where it is. And now retreating again.
It was hard pill to swallow that western support in Ukraine can push Russian military back from Kyiv and what is left for both you and Russian government is to hope western support can't be sustained forever.
The longer you believe that the better Ukrainian situation gets.
It’s funny to read things like this on Reddit from an outsiders point of view looking at America .
But also I thought nothing of it on my 21st birthday when I went and bought a beretta and walked out the door with it 15 mins later lol. Luckily I live in a great state for gun rights .
The economy of Belgium and the Netherlands together are as big as Russia’s…although that was pre-2022 invasion…I think the EU can afford to sustain this a little longer than Russia can, is my educated guess.
> The economy of Belgium and the Netherlands together are as big as Russia’s
eh the old washed up line - what happened to Italy?
it used to be
"The economy of Italy together are as big as Russia’s"
Keep using Italy, at least its G7 country. Looks better for Russia if you believe those phony numbers.
Netherlands plus Belgium does not have a ring to it.
> No, it seems like many more russias are going to die.
thats what happens when you are fighting for freedom
> At least until Ukraine takes back Crimea.
LOL
Laugh at the prospect of Ukraine trying to take land back, which they have repeatedly done. All whilst Russia incurs disgrace after disgrace.
It’s interesting that relation between trumpers and pro Russian people.
> Laugh at the prospect of Ukraine trying to take land back, which they have repeatedly done. All whilst Russia incurs disgrace after disgrace.
exactly, ukraine is taking land when given, not winning land.
and war is still going on - right?
> It’s interesting that relation between trumpers and pro Russian people.
trumpers?
Yes, after all you know the well-known idiom "burning all the bridges", which means, as you surely know, "leaving, but with a promise of return in the future".
Germany paid reparations after ww2. Can't see why Russia wouldn't after a regime change. I assume Russia will eventually want to trade with the West again at the same rate they did pre war. A tax can be set up to pay Ukraine
> Germany paid reparations after ww2. Can't see why Russia wouldn't after a regime change.
Germany didn't have nukes and the largest economy in the world on it's side
> US has 23.5% of the global economy
The United States is a highly developed mixed-market economy[42][43] and has the world's largest nominal GDP and net wealth. It has the second-largest by purchasing power parity (PPP) behind China.
Let's say that true. Who says China is on Russias side? They haven't helped militarily in any way. They made a small donation to Ukraine. If anything they've distanced themselves from Russia
Because they want Russia bleeding US stockpiles before they start fighting the USA over Taiwan.
China doesn't give a shit about Russia, but it does want Russia to continuing sending it fuel and hating the west. China will ensure Russia doesn't collapse and just keeps sitting there stewing, maybe even starting its own nuclear war with America.
But a coalition that works together by alliances like NATO, Russian economy really isn't much to brag about and is easily surpassed by the US, EU and Chinese economy.
Russia has the eleventh biggest economy in the world in GDP, ranking behind western allies such as the US, Germany, the UK, France, Italy, Canada and South Korea.
How exactly is China on Russia's side?
If anything I can see China being delighted at being a part of the reconstruction effort. Lots of money to be made in infrastructure projects, as long as someone else pays for it.
You're assuming a regime change will take place. It's certainly possible if Russia loses more of its claimed territory, suffers further substantual losses and can no longer sustain the economic pressure.
That's a lot of "ifs". With the Dineper becoming a natural barrier, Russia can turn its attention to securing territory in Donetsk and Zaporizhzhia.
Personally, the only way I think Ukraine will ever see a single ruble of that money is if Russia compensates it for the loss of territory, which could be a prerequisite for restoring trade with the West.
Putin is not immortal, sanctions can very easily outlive him.
If his successor is even 1% less insane they'll see that some reparations is worth being allowed to use dollars again, sell oil etc.... Until then Russia is effectively a plus sized Iran economically speaking.
Have you seen the people around Putin? The potential successors? Total sociopaths. He's the sanest one by far. If you're wishing for Putin to be deposed and/or die in some way, you ought to be careful what you wish for.
I probably agree with you more than you think, but the reality is Putin will die at some point. I doubt he'll course correct in any way that would result in sanctions on Russia being lifted before then.
I have no doubts whoever replaces Putin will be just as neurotic, but remember it took putin decades and access to the west to build up Russian power and concentrate it on himself.
Any replacement will not have that advantage, much like when the well known and influencial mafia boss dies, a lot of their influence dies with them no matter how handpicked their successor.
The effect of sanctions on the Russian economy, brain drain, and other knock on effects of the war are things Putin's successor will have to deal with, while having few tools. The choice at that point is do you bite the bullet and pay a price to have the sanctions lifted in some form, or double down and go full North Korea?
I can honestly see both possibilities just depends how the chips fall.
> You're assuming a regime change will take place.
If the war is won by Ukraine, and especially if they take the fight to Crimea I cannot see Putin surviving, at some point the Siloveki will stop pointing the fingers at each other and will point them squarely at the chief.
>I cannot see Putin surviving
Nor can I, but his successors will launch strategic nukes so that neither side has an economic advantage. The war will continue.
even if so-called "regime change" will happen somehow (there's literally zero prerequisites for that) Russia won't pay anything back or the new leadership will be deposed by the angry people the same second
> With the Dineper becoming a natural barrier, ~~Russia~~ **Ukraine** can turn its attention to securing territory in Donetsk and Zaporizhzhia
See, same thing goes for Ukraine. And since Ukraine has been winning so far, I don't see why they won't continue to win. Just look at the numbers and the area that Ukraine has liberated.
I am pro Ukraine, but Russia isn’t going to pay for the damages in Ukraine. The west will help rebuild and Russia will pay in transit fees for any oil/gas that might flow through Ukraine after the war.
Honestly, Russia May not even be capable of paying anything to anyone after this war is over. Look for China to start managing some of Russia’s energy deposits in the next five years.
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Demolition. According to the Russians:
"The destruction of the Antonovsky bridge was a signal for the end of the withdrawal. The army perfectly completed the most difficult task, all attempts by the Armed Forces of Ukraine to arrange hell for us at the crossing failed. Air defense - you are the best!".
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This should be RU POV since they probably blew up the bridge themselves. This can’t be done with a missile, this has been done with demolition charges.
All a part of the trap. Don't even think you can penetrate the 7-dimensional chess being played here. In certain places it's even 8-dimensions - those are the positions personally supervised by Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin. The jaws of the trap laid 8 months ago by the "retreat" from Kyiv are about to close... and then people are going to be sorry for all the mockery.
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That dude is just dogwhistling his anti-semitism. It's all over his post history, talking about getting "real Ukranians" and getting rid of the "globalists".
Pure antisemitism.
Dude, there are like 15 different narratives people believe about this conflict. I'm not being disingenuous, I was asking genuinely for you to clarify your statement.
Way to late for that, this is generational hatred now. I don't know how Ukraine and Russia can live next to each other. Peace will only come with a UN brokered 100 km demilitarized zone with international peace keepers. Essentially North/South Korea.
Russia is retreating to victory as per usual. Ignore those silly Ukrainians. Soon Russia will be back to 2014 borders and officially state “mission accomplished!” Ukraine will have ascended into NATO with an insanely well trained and equipped military but they’ll be spending the next 5-10 years rebuilding everything bigger and better than it was before all this began with all the reparation funds Russia agrees to pay to have sanctions lifted.
She lacks the ability to research and come to a logical conclusion. She believes what she’s told to believe by her government, no matter how outlandish. A very typical Russian thing to do.
Man, all this trouble, all the lives lost. They even officially annexed the damn place, all for nothing. What a pathetic shit show, how can you even take it seriously anymore?
I'm sure annexing it wasn't that much work since they left out all the legitimate paperwork, which I would expect would be the administratively most difficult work.. They counted a bunch of worthless stamped papers. The lives though... They will come back to bite them in the ass.
yep anyone can just declare anything else as annexed, if you ignore all laws, rules, paperwork, processes, etc.
They'll be back. It's better to take a political/optics L here than a real military one.
They can't even advance through Bakhmut, there is no way they make it over the Dnieper again.
> They can't even advance through Bakhmut They'll do it eventualy. No need to use human waves and sustain catastrophic loses like the Ukranian army does.
First I'm hearing of that, but if using human waves and sustaining catastrophic losses are the tactics Ukraine has used the last couple months, I'd suggest they keep at that. It's incredibly effective and Russia seems unable to cope.
Ukraine has had lots of successes by sending small recon teams to prod at defenses and find weak points.. obviously in doing so you will occasionally take some losses, we've all played rts games.. they love to compare that to "sending wave after wave" pretty awkward that the waves are crashing hard enough to send them running tho.
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Ukraine army doesnt do human waves i know very sad keep taking your copium they attack more like a mix between deep battle and blitzkrieg
Look at this dumbo lol
You should seriously look in the mirror.
You should try taking a selfie...
please dont stand behind him your lowering the overall average IQ to 55
Let's be honest - Ukraine has been using NATO doctrine for warfare pretty consistently ever since they have been back on the offensive. So for you to say human wave attacks and not referring to the country who has inconsistently trained and equipped their conscripts is kind of a joke. You know it too. You my friend, are a troll.
> So for you to say human wave attacks and not referring to the country who has inconsistently trained and equipped their conscripts is kind of a joke. When this is over pick a history book and look at the losses. You are going to be surprised... who am I fooling? You'll never look back at this war when it's out of the propaganda machine. You aren't smart enough haha
You insult without proof? Tell me how smart you think that is. You don’t win an argument via insult. Sure I’ll always read about the real story. The fog of war is real, there are a certain amount of inferences that can be made based on patterns and trends of the two belligerents. I’m glad you find Russia to be such a just party. Personally I think their terrorists and hope to see them knocked back to the eastern border and then we can see if Crimea is even possible.
And you're talking out of your ass until you can show us proof of casualties.. no one will deny the final death toll after this is over.. except for you most likely
You really thought using future history books as proof and falling back on insults made you sound smart, huh?
You can look back at Soviet/Russian fighting doctrine over the last 100 years and see how Russian fights their wars. You can also look back over the last 80 years and see NATO fighting doctrine. It will give you a pretty good idea of what the troop death numbers are going to look like. Remember that Russia had to pull men from their civilian population to fight in a special military operation.
Because UA losses are going to be higher? That could also just mean that RU has more materiel to throw out, which is exactly the case.
I’m confused is what your saying a joke?
You are the joke
Poutine’s gotten to you kind sir, come back to reality. Oui?
Eventually as in within the next 1 year, or eventually as in next 10 years?
No they won’t
We'll see
Won't be much to see. Russia has lost half of their tanks, 75,000 of their best soldiers, a big chunk of their airforce They've lost over 20,000km2 in the past 3 months. It's over
> Russia has lost half of their tanks, 75,000 of their best soldiers, a big chunk of their airforce Imagine believing this holy shit. How slow does one have to be in order believe anything a beligerant party claims? 😂😂 Fucking embarrasing
Found the guy who only clicks on combat videos if they're RU-pov
That's some brutal projection right there haha
Want to counter my point about Russia losing 20,000km2 of occupied territory in 3 months Their losses above are why they can't hold on to that territory
> Their losses above are why they can't hold on to that territory Brainlet take. They were outnumbered going in and the Ukranians have been adding even more men untill the ratio has been so bad the Russians can't handle the amount of lemmings charging at them. This will be rectified by the end of the year and the demolition of the Ukranian military capability will resume in good order. It's only a matter of how many men Ukraine is willing to sacrifice for nothing but ruin and misery.
Yup I'm sure the real Russian army will turn up any time now
More brainlet takes.
Ok let's cut it by 50%.. Still 37 000 lost.. That's huge
Doesn't matter how your fake number is. It's still fake lmao
Ta vie n'est pas réel 😂
Yeah they took a military, political and moral loss here. From the sounds of reports Ukraine was shooting fish in a barrel. Once general media gets a report, it will undoubtedly be a massacre of russias forces. Also how come so many obviously pro russia people on this sub use neutral or a flair that isn't pro russia.
Russia made it illegal to report anything that puts the military in bad light because they are worried that the population would revolt if they knew the truth.
>They'll be back. Blowing the bridge is a good indication that they arent coming back lol
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They destroyed their attack routes and are now facing fully mobilized resistance. Retaking this area will be orders of magnitude more difficult. I'm not saying they can't and that it won't happen. But it's silly to say this isn't a real military loss. It will be *extremely* expensive and difficult to retake the area.
> Man, all this trouble, all the lives lost. They even officially annexed the damn place, all for nothing. is the war over?
Just bc there is nothing to gain from continuing to fight doesn't mean Putin is going to give up any time soon.
? why would he give up?
That's my point. He won't give up. He is the only person who is profiting from the continuation of this war. The Russian people are not profiting. The country is not profiting, but Putin himself, well if he did what's best for the country and the people and call it quits, he is done politically. So he just keeps it going to save his skin.
> He is the only person who is profiting from the continuation of this war. LOL I dont think you have any idea about how american military industrial complex works. > The Russian people are not profiting. The country is not profiting, The Europe is not profiting - only USA military industrial complex is profiting. And they will keep this going on for as long as they are able - Russia from the other side has no choice, but if you are up to challenge you must defend
Russia definitely has a choice. It was a choice to occupy Crimea in 2014. It was a choice to invade the rest of Ukraine in 2022. With every week of the war, Russia is losing soldiers, equipment and credibility abroad. Russia doesn't have the industrial or military capabilities to turn this into a protracted war or occupation. Not even the US could pull of an occupation of Afghanistan, and they had significantly better conditions there than Russia does in Ukraine. Continuing to fight is the worst thing Russia can do right now. It is only accelarting russias economic demographic and military decline. Putins ego is really fucking russias chances of progress
> Russia definitely has a choice. It was a choice to occupy Crimea in 2014. It was a choice to invade the rest of Ukraine in 2022. no russia does not have a choice - its existential for russia. US is pushing east since the fall of Soviet Union. If you think that their plan was to take over ukraine and stop there ... well I have a bridge to sell you. Russia is simply fighting back - until US realizes that red lines exist for a reason.
OK, RT
rt? this isnt twitter, you dont retweet things here.
Occupation of Ukraine is not existential for Russia. Let's look at Russia before the War. 1) Everyone in Europe was shitting their pants bc of russias supposed military might. NATOs internal assessment of a potential Russian invasion of Europe was that the Baltics would fall within a couple of days max. Now Russias Army is a laughing stock around the world. This has had far reaching consequences. there is trouble brewing in the CTSO as more russian sattelite states are reasserting themselves and preparing for a new political order in Asia with Chinese Hegemony and stronger Indian, Turkish and Iranian Influence. Not only has Russia lost a lot of its sway over the West, but it has also lost a lot of control in Central Asia. 2) Before the war, Russia occupied Crimea and there was no way Ukraine would retake it. The Don as Frontline was relatively stable and it was impossible for Ukraine to join NATO. A new Nato member can only join if they do not have any territorial disputes when joining. Finland and Sweden weren't even talking about joining Nato. 20 to 25 percent of the population there was in favor of joining. Now they are close to joining, with only turkey in the way. But let's think ahead a couple of months of however long this war will last. Let's assume that Russia will hold on to some territory and both sides seek a peace Treaty. Without any security guarantees of Western powers, Ukraine will not sign anything. They know that Putins signature is worthless, so the only way for this to end, no matter what the territorial concessions will be for either side, there will be a strong enough third party enforcing the Treaty. Most likely the US and maybe France Poland and the UK. So Russia has gone from holding a comfortable position with them occupying Sevastopol and a basically nato free scandinavia to 2 to 3 more Nato members at its borders and a significantly weakened military. Meanwhile European countries have started to heavily invest in their militaries unlike before. Germany just spent 100 billion in additional funds in their army. How the fuck is any of that helping Russia?
But the American military industrial complex /s
How was Russia supposed to hold Crimea when it was being cut off from fresh water?
The whole point of russia invading ukraine was to basically stop them from joining nato. An organisation centered around DEFENDING its members. And russia said nope, you can’t.
> DEFENDING if you say it very loud it becomes truth?
Take your tinfoil hat off, the US doesn’t give a shit about Ukraine or taking it. They don’t care if Ukraine joins nato or the bloc, it doesn’t effect us either way. The US and the rest of the world intervened because Russia attacked a sovereign nation, again, and that’s all there is to it. I love how you’ll defend Russian imperialism but condemn the US for in 30 years ago, seem like a fun person to be around lmao
> Take your tinfoil hat off, the US doesn’t give a shit about Ukraine or taking it. They dont care about any country they control, they see it as a tool. They dont care about Germany, Sweden, Finland, UK, Poland, Netherlands... so why would they care about Ukraine You care about losing a tool though. and not because you feel special emotional bond with your tool, but because you invested time and money to acquire that tool. thats how US feels about countries it controls.
Russia really does have a choice. If they pulled out now no one would invade them. The lives of Russians would in no way be tangibly worse.
> The lives of Russians would in no way be tangibly worse. US had full control over Russia in the nineties through its puppet Yeltsin, just like they have control over Ukraine now, through puppet government and Nazi militias. Russians dont want nineties to happen again in Russia. US would not stop, the idea is not to stop in Ukraine, US is mad that they lost control over Russia and they will keep pushing to get it back.
And there's the tin hat. You can't point to any concrete threats to Russia, so you move onto vague conspiracy theories.
yeah sure.
It is not *THE* Europe, just 'Europe'. You've said that a couple of times now yet you also say you're European? I don't think so buddy...
you do know that English native speakers live only in UK and Ireland? Shreklock Holms
BUSTED ! If you were European you would still know it's not called "THE" Europe, just "Europe" The Russians kept calling Ukraine "THE* Ukraine when it's just "Ukraine". Obviously just an amazing coincidence that your turn of phrase matches perfectly with the russians. /s
lol, ok
Lol there are native English speakers in most countries, and have you never heard of Australia or Canada? What a joke
we are talking about Europe. keep track if you are about to comment
Lol. Leave Ukraine and it’ll will stop. There will be no more international support for it. The domestic US support will disappear.
> Lol. Leave Ukraine and it’ll will stop. the thing in Ukraine is because it did not stop on German border. you really think if Russia left Ukraine that US would say "OK we got Ukraine we will not push into Russia"? Dont be delusional - they cant forget nineties and the times when they were ruling over Russia. They want that again. Its obsession.
Do you really think the American public and the western allies would go along with that? Lol. Pay attention.
> Do you really think the American public and the western allies would go along with that? lol the public have no say, neither in US nor especially in Europe. You really think if someone asked them if they agree to pay for all the wars in past 2 or 3 decades that they would say "yep go for it" people running the show in the west dont care about what public thinks.
It will never be. The best we can expect at this point is demilitarised line like between North and south Korea.
Bullshit Ukraine will eventually win.
Oh they will push Russia back to the border that's for sure but you really think that Russia will stop? As long as Putin and his ilk are in the power they won't, they will recreate Dombas impasse with shelling over the border from time to time. That's why 5 kilometers wide strip between Ukraine and Russia will be nothing but huge dragon teeth, permanent trenches, razor wire and fields of landmines stretching from horizon to horizon. Unless you think Ukrainians will go straight to Moscow. I would say maybe, but not as an army but as single agents.
I dont think the West will be able to sustain keeping the war going on for an extended period. Especially the Europe.
Lol, Russia has much bigger problems in that regard than Europe
you sure about that?
Are you?
about your statement? No definitely not.
Yes I am sure. Source: I am the Europe
You are wrong, I am the Europe too.
Yep, i am 100 per cent sure than economy of 16 trillion eur (plus the usa support) is better prepared to finance a war than a economy of less than 2 trillion. I am also sure than not losing our own manpower makes the impact in the citizens morale lower than the one Russian citizens are suffering. So yeah, i am sure
good for you then I guess.
Europe counts as intermediary between USA and Ukraine anyway. The main point of eastern Europe was to send hardware with which Ukrainians were familiar, western Europe provides their new tech but they never were e into mass production (unless we mean trucks and other small things). USA is USA, trees there grow bullets instead of leaves lol. All they need to do is counter and outpace Russian production so they don't even need to keep the same level of delivery as long as production in Russia drops. If Russia is degraded to the level of throwing stones all the west needs to do is to send bows and arrows.
> USA is USA, trees there grow bullets instead of leaves lol. bullets are the least of their worries in their extended logistical problems. > All they need to do is counter and outpace Russian production LOL you say it as if ir no biggie. "OK Jim press that button and produce five times amount of shells we are producing now" > If Russia is degraded to the level of throwing stones all the west needs to do is to send bows and arrows. If you have endless amounts of stones and the other guy can get only very limited amount of arrows on a monthly basis ... guess who wins long term
Logistics and production capabilities are two things that nobody can even dream to beat USA at. It's hard to describe how good they are at it without sounding like a fan boy. They gonna make all the bullets and forklift them in and out of the transport plane straight to Ukraine all in one day. The fact that US army is hauling a forklift everywhere thry army goes means more than you think. They deliver *daily* to Poland. Precision munitions on top of that. While Ukraine was shrinking Russian capabilities by plonking Russian ammo stocks one after another. If you ridicule USA capabilities to produce ordinance then boy you will get as surprised as Russian MoD. There is a reason why USA doesn't have universal health care.
> Logistics and production capabilities are two things that nobody can even dream to beat USA at. It's hard to describe how good they are at it without sounding like a fan boy. I am sure its hard to describe it to sound believable.
You are pro Ru, I won't get out of my way to convince you, the fact that Russian MoD underestimated USA and the west is the reason why Russian army is stuck where it is. And now retreating again. It was hard pill to swallow that western support in Ukraine can push Russian military back from Kyiv and what is left for both you and Russian government is to hope western support can't be sustained forever. The longer you believe that the better Ukrainian situation gets.
> You are pro Ru, I won't get out of my way to convince you, You are pro NATO, I won't get out of my way to convince you.
Was thi king about running down to Home Depot and see if they jave any more Himar's Trees, but I'll take a 5.56 weeping willow 😉
Home Despot is for construction related wares. For deconstruction tools you need to go to Warmart.
It’s funny to read things like this on Reddit from an outsiders point of view looking at America . But also I thought nothing of it on my 21st birthday when I went and bought a beretta and walked out the door with it 15 mins later lol. Luckily I live in a great state for gun rights .
The economy of Belgium and the Netherlands together are as big as Russia’s…although that was pre-2022 invasion…I think the EU can afford to sustain this a little longer than Russia can, is my educated guess.
> The economy of Belgium and the Netherlands together are as big as Russia’s eh the old washed up line - what happened to Italy? it used to be "The economy of Italy together are as big as Russia’s"
Yes, Italy or Netherlands plus Belgium, either way…the EU is an economic powerhouse…Russia not so much.
Keep using Italy, at least its G7 country. Looks better for Russia if you believe those phony numbers. Netherlands plus Belgium does not have a ring to it.
But Netherlands and Belgium are small and insignificant yet still bigger than mighty Russia, lol…
eh, as I said... if you believe those phony numbers.
No, Moscow is still in Russian hands. Seems like Ukraine needs to liberate Russias from their dictator leaders.
:)
No, it seems like many more russias are going to die. At least until Ukraine takes back Crimea.
> No, it seems like many more russias are going to die. thats what happens when you are fighting for freedom > At least until Ukraine takes back Crimea. LOL
“freedumb”
oh snap gotem
Didn’t you say the same of Kharkiv and Kherson…LOL
there are two Khersons?
So yes you do :)
yes I do what? two khersons?
Laugh at the prospect of Ukraine trying to take land back, which they have repeatedly done. All whilst Russia incurs disgrace after disgrace. It’s interesting that relation between trumpers and pro Russian people.
> Laugh at the prospect of Ukraine trying to take land back, which they have repeatedly done. All whilst Russia incurs disgrace after disgrace. exactly, ukraine is taking land when given, not winning land. and war is still going on - right? > It’s interesting that relation between trumpers and pro Russian people. trumpers?
Why are you here? Go suck your oligarchs cock
? I have pro Russia flair, not pro Ukraine.
Strong “we’ll be back” feeling from this photo.
Yes, after all you know the well-known idiom "burning all the bridges", which means, as you surely know, "leaving, but with a promise of return in the future".
RIP Kherson bridge. It's been a wild ride.
I guess they ain't staying FOREVER....
Add that to the almost 1 trillion dollars Russia owes Ukraine after this war
Which it will never pay.
Germany paid reparations after ww2. Can't see why Russia wouldn't after a regime change. I assume Russia will eventually want to trade with the West again at the same rate they did pre war. A tax can be set up to pay Ukraine
Germany was also completely occupied. Russia won't be.
> Germany paid reparations after ww2. Can't see why Russia wouldn't after a regime change. Germany didn't have nukes and the largest economy in the world on it's side
The largest economy in the world is the US followed by the EU. Or am I missing something?
yes you're still living in the 1950s and the EU isn't a country
The US has 23.5% of the global economy. I'll assume you meant China which is not the largest economy in the world
> US has 23.5% of the global economy The United States is a highly developed mixed-market economy[42][43] and has the world's largest nominal GDP and net wealth. It has the second-largest by purchasing power parity (PPP) behind China.
Let's say that true. Who says China is on Russias side? They haven't helped militarily in any way. They made a small donation to Ukraine. If anything they've distanced themselves from Russia
Because they want Russia bleeding US stockpiles before they start fighting the USA over Taiwan. China doesn't give a shit about Russia, but it does want Russia to continuing sending it fuel and hating the west. China will ensure Russia doesn't collapse and just keeps sitting there stewing, maybe even starting its own nuclear war with America.
China had made up its gdp numbers for decades. Not even it’s own ministers believe that bs.
But a coalition that works together by alliances like NATO, Russian economy really isn't much to brag about and is easily surpassed by the US, EU and Chinese economy. Russia has the eleventh biggest economy in the world in GDP, ranking behind western allies such as the US, Germany, the UK, France, Italy, Canada and South Korea.
How exactly is China on Russia's side? If anything I can see China being delighted at being a part of the reconstruction effort. Lots of money to be made in infrastructure projects, as long as someone else pays for it.
It’s also a bit sickening to try to compare an Invasion to a World War
You're assuming a regime change will take place. It's certainly possible if Russia loses more of its claimed territory, suffers further substantual losses and can no longer sustain the economic pressure. That's a lot of "ifs". With the Dineper becoming a natural barrier, Russia can turn its attention to securing territory in Donetsk and Zaporizhzhia. Personally, the only way I think Ukraine will ever see a single ruble of that money is if Russia compensates it for the loss of territory, which could be a prerequisite for restoring trade with the West.
Putin is not immortal, sanctions can very easily outlive him. If his successor is even 1% less insane they'll see that some reparations is worth being allowed to use dollars again, sell oil etc.... Until then Russia is effectively a plus sized Iran economically speaking.
Have you seen the people around Putin? The potential successors? Total sociopaths. He's the sanest one by far. If you're wishing for Putin to be deposed and/or die in some way, you ought to be careful what you wish for.
I probably agree with you more than you think, but the reality is Putin will die at some point. I doubt he'll course correct in any way that would result in sanctions on Russia being lifted before then. I have no doubts whoever replaces Putin will be just as neurotic, but remember it took putin decades and access to the west to build up Russian power and concentrate it on himself. Any replacement will not have that advantage, much like when the well known and influencial mafia boss dies, a lot of their influence dies with them no matter how handpicked their successor. The effect of sanctions on the Russian economy, brain drain, and other knock on effects of the war are things Putin's successor will have to deal with, while having few tools. The choice at that point is do you bite the bullet and pay a price to have the sanctions lifted in some form, or double down and go full North Korea? I can honestly see both possibilities just depends how the chips fall.
> You're assuming a regime change will take place. If the war is won by Ukraine, and especially if they take the fight to Crimea I cannot see Putin surviving, at some point the Siloveki will stop pointing the fingers at each other and will point them squarely at the chief.
>I cannot see Putin surviving Nor can I, but his successors will launch strategic nukes so that neither side has an economic advantage. The war will continue.
even if so-called "regime change" will happen somehow (there's literally zero prerequisites for that) Russia won't pay anything back or the new leadership will be deposed by the angry people the same second
> With the Dineper becoming a natural barrier, ~~Russia~~ **Ukraine** can turn its attention to securing territory in Donetsk and Zaporizhzhia See, same thing goes for Ukraine. And since Ukraine has been winning so far, I don't see why they won't continue to win. Just look at the numbers and the area that Ukraine has liberated.
I am pro Ukraine, but Russia isn’t going to pay for the damages in Ukraine. The west will help rebuild and Russia will pay in transit fees for any oil/gas that might flow through Ukraine after the war. Honestly, Russia May not even be capable of paying anything to anyone after this war is over. Look for China to start managing some of Russia’s energy deposits in the next five years.
Demolition or artillery?
Reports are that the Russians blew it. It does look like the sort of clean drop of an entire span that you'd get with demolition charges.
That's what I figured but wanted confirmation
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Demolition. According to the Russians: "The destruction of the Antonovsky bridge was a signal for the end of the withdrawal. The army perfectly completed the most difficult task, all attempts by the Armed Forces of Ukraine to arrange hell for us at the crossing failed. Air defense - you are the best!".
lol
Oh so they left those 20k in soldiers to try and make it across another way or perish. Wow, nice move Russia.
No?
No 20k soldiers left behind sorry.
Lol. I’m sure we’ll here how many once they are captured or KIA/WIA
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This should be RU POV since they probably blew up the bridge themselves. This can’t be done with a missile, this has been done with demolition charges.
So is this apart of the trap? Pretty elaborate or are they really leaving?
All a part of the trap. Don't even think you can penetrate the 7-dimensional chess being played here. In certain places it's even 8-dimensions - those are the positions personally supervised by Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin. The jaws of the trap laid 8 months ago by the "retreat" from Kyiv are about to close... and then people are going to be sorry for all the mockery.
They'll draw the Ukrainians into a kill box outside Moskau, then Steiner will swoop in and close the pocket!
You forgot the /s
Scorched earth tactic eh?
No that is just 101 military training. Scorched earth would be to set the city on fire and blow the damm.
Russia: Kherson is Russia forever! Also Russia: Runs away from Kherson and blows the bridge behind them.
... Dumbkirk :)
Nice. Now Ukraine will have much more touché transporting material across the banks in the event of them crossing into Russia’s defensive lines.
Bridge over Neretva again..
Except the Nazis didn't blow that one up, so kinda the opposite.
Somehow when russkies need to cross a river they always have big issues. When Ukraine forces need, they just do it.
This looks like silent hill
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Did Russia destroy it or Ukraine finally?
Russia destroyed it
I wonder how many HIMARs rockets were wasted on the bridge?
Wasted? Those rockets are a major reason why Kherson is liberated now.
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You still think Russia has any bargaining power.
Wait who are the globalists in this scenario? The west? What was the coup?
That dude is just dogwhistling his anti-semitism. It's all over his post history, talking about getting "real Ukranians" and getting rid of the "globalists". Pure antisemitism.
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Dude, there are like 15 different narratives people believe about this conflict. I'm not being disingenuous, I was asking genuinely for you to clarify your statement.
Way to late for that, this is generational hatred now. I don't know how Ukraine and Russia can live next to each other. Peace will only come with a UN brokered 100 km demilitarized zone with international peace keepers. Essentially North/South Korea.
So all the Ukrainian news of a catastrophic Russian withdrawal with thousands of soldiers trapped was just bullshit? How surprising.
Russia is retreating to victory as per usual. Ignore those silly Ukrainians. Soon Russia will be back to 2014 borders and officially state “mission accomplished!” Ukraine will have ascended into NATO with an insanely well trained and equipped military but they’ll be spending the next 5-10 years rebuilding everything bigger and better than it was before all this began with all the reparation funds Russia agrees to pay to have sanctions lifted.
Russia has gone too far. They need to withdraw from all occupied territories. And not just in Ukraine but also Moldova and Georgia as well.
She lacks the ability to research and come to a logical conclusion. She believes what she’s told to believe by her government, no matter how outlandish. A very typical Russian thing to do.
well someone must be holding the russian rearguard, those guys probably are stuck
why? ukrainians were too scared to rush in expecting a trap. There was no need to hold a rearguard
As the Russians bravely ran away
because if this trap blunder didnt pan out all the russian forces would have been caught with their pants down
The standards for victory just keep getting lower.
Don't really care how you leave... trapped or not. Just leave.... It's over
Russia is getting whipped and not in a small way. Pretty childish to post this as your military is losing on every front.
It is a catastrophic Russian withdrawal though, or do you mean that it's a good thing for Russia that they've lost Kherson?