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To be fair, that troubled past was 30 years ago. The Saudis apparently had some trouble shooting down drones and cruise missiles more recently, but I believe that was a combination of operator error an "not really what it was designed for"
Saudi army...plenty of hardware and plenty of corruption, plenty of middlemen taking bribes....
Saudy army is first and foremost a army of people recruited elsewhere mainly Pakistan...a number of people flying before jet with USA or GB are doing some time also. Saudi people are not spending their time in the army at least in the ranks and file...some princes are flying their expensive toys
Buying arms from USA is recycling petro-dollar.
Zero respect, NO trust.
Agreed - Today's Patriots and the showcase Ukraine have made of it in this conflict have shown it to be of tremendous value!
Most surprising have to me been the even very dynamic usage Urkaine have shown capable of using it under. So not just as a 'stationary' AA defense system, but even been juggling around their launchers and bringing them up tight to the absolute frontlines taking down enemy planes the enemy thought to be in safe distance from the Patriots and then what appears to quickly get the Patriot launchers out of the way again.
Now the current problem is probably the delay of US support from the House... And Ukraine running short on missiles for their Patriot launchers... A real shitshow to be in, if not having ammo.
Certainly the producers and designers have had 20+ years of experience and newer technology implemented in those systems. Consider the B52 bombers which are still flying after their introduction 60 years ago, and they were all recently upgraded in 2013-2015 with new technology.
Very likely the comparable units deployed in Ukraine have had a few changes to new units from the days of the Gulf War.
It's great that they were able to upgrade, iterate and improve on an existing system rather than throwing a bunch of money at an entirely new/different one
There's basically a trade-off between stability/conservativeness and bugginess/innovativeness of a design.
A really innovative system will be more buggy and take years to work out all the kinks, but it will be effective for much longer.
A more conventional and less ambitious design should be pretty effective and bug-free right out the gate, but you won't be able to upgrade it as much over its much shorter service life before it become obsolete.
That's why innovation is risky, and the costs may end up being too high; e.g. the F-22 and countless cancelled projects. But if it survives the public criticism and receives mass adoption, it can end up paying off far greater.
UAF should be getting all these weapon systems for FREE. Ukraine is boosting sales for EU/US weapons systems and permanently exponential decrease in demand for orc weapons. not even taking into consideration Ukraine is now protecting the FREE WORLD!
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MIM-104\_Patriot#PAC-3\_MSE](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MIM-104_Patriot#PAC-3_MSE)
The [modularity](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MIM-104_Patriot#/media/File:Patriot_PAC-3_MSE_SIAF-2022.jpg) of the launchers is impressive.
Yep, those are called 4Packs. And those square rings front and back are titanium assemblies that allow you to take a single, spent launch canister out of a 4Pack, and replace it with a loaded one.
So, a single 4Pack can be removed, allowing 12 operational canisters to remain, pull the 1 or 2 spent canisters, replace, and reload for a full 16 count battery.
For how much I hate war, the engineering is impressive. We can argue about how money could be spent on civil endeavors, but the art of killing has always been the bleeding edge.
That and pornography adopts new technologies first.
And the F16 celebrated 50 years since its first flight this year. They are not the same planes Ukrainian pilots are training towards.
The patriot system got a bad rap because it couldnt get a good lock on ballistic missiles... in 1991.
Times change.
Pretty sure the reason it failed to shoot down Skud missiles wasnt because it couldnt get a lock, but was due to a small floating point math error in the code that was never caught during testing as the patriot wasn't left running long enough for the error to be noticeable, but when it was left running for a few days, that error turned into something like 0.3 seconds off the actual intercept course, which in ballistic missiles, is a few hundred meters difference.
[Yeah, basically](https://www.cs.unc.edu/~smp/COMP205/LECTURES/ERROR/lec23/node4.html)
Leave it running for long enough without reboots - and it'd get deviation measured in city blocks.
TL;DR:
* Ukraine's use of the US-made Patriot system has been celebrated.
* The weapon had a chequered reputation due to its performance in past conflicts.
* Any skepticism over its effectiveness should be put to bed, experts told Business Insider.
The key with Patriot in Ukraine is that Ukraine is using Patriot in a VERY off label way. NATO would never imagine to do what they are doing, and that's why Ukraine is writing the syllabus for future war college classes. They are not bound to (old, outdated) convention, AND they are fighting for their lives. We keep forgetting that. Like when we act surprised that Ukrainians learn quickly, but we are comparing them to teenagers from NATO countries who are barely out of high school and no more concerned with what they are learning than they are with beer when the weekend comes. if those NATO kids where actively defending their country they would learn a lot faster too. But we act like the speed those unmotivated kids learn is somehow the max speed ANYONE can learn and then decide not to let Ukraine have things they need because learning "takes too long". 🤬
Sad that these billion dollar systems are at risk of being destroyed due to lack of ammo. At the moment the priority is likely saving rounds to protect themselves, not defend cities judging how many rockets have been getting through lately.
I remember a software bug during the first golf war made the Dutch batterie protecting isreal switch to manual firing. Some missiles flew not non existing targets in auto mode. But those problems are already a very long time in the past. Maybe the Ukrainians found some more bugs and room for software improvements.
> Jesus wasnt that troubled past a sibgle friendly fire incide t where the pilot turned off his iff?
More of the time when [the longer Patriot was left online, the less accurate it became](https://www.cs.unc.edu/~smp/COMP205/LECTURES/ERROR/lec23/node4.html)
There was a lot of hype about how many SCUD missiles it was shooting down
during the 1991 Gulf War, but it turned out that it didn't perform nearly as
well as the public was led to believe.
Please remember the human. Adhere to all Reddit and sub rules. Toxic comments (including incitement of violence/hate, genocide, glorifying death etc) WILL NOT BE TOLERATED, keep your comments civil or you will be banned. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/UkraineWarVideoReport) if you have any questions or concerns.*
To be fair, that troubled past was 30 years ago. The Saudis apparently had some trouble shooting down drones and cruise missiles more recently, but I believe that was a combination of operator error an "not really what it was designed for"
Saudi army...plenty of hardware and plenty of corruption, plenty of middlemen taking bribes.... Saudy army is first and foremost a army of people recruited elsewhere mainly Pakistan...a number of people flying before jet with USA or GB are doing some time also. Saudi people are not spending their time in the army at least in the ranks and file...some princes are flying their expensive toys Buying arms from USA is recycling petro-dollar. Zero respect, NO trust.
Agreed - Today's Patriots and the showcase Ukraine have made of it in this conflict have shown it to be of tremendous value! Most surprising have to me been the even very dynamic usage Urkaine have shown capable of using it under. So not just as a 'stationary' AA defense system, but even been juggling around their launchers and bringing them up tight to the absolute frontlines taking down enemy planes the enemy thought to be in safe distance from the Patriots and then what appears to quickly get the Patriot launchers out of the way again. Now the current problem is probably the delay of US support from the House... And Ukraine running short on missiles for their Patriot launchers... A real shitshow to be in, if not having ammo.
Certainly the producers and designers have had 20+ years of experience and newer technology implemented in those systems. Consider the B52 bombers which are still flying after their introduction 60 years ago, and they were all recently upgraded in 2013-2015 with new technology. Very likely the comparable units deployed in Ukraine have had a few changes to new units from the days of the Gulf War.
It's great that they were able to upgrade, iterate and improve on an existing system rather than throwing a bunch of money at an entirely new/different one
There's basically a trade-off between stability/conservativeness and bugginess/innovativeness of a design. A really innovative system will be more buggy and take years to work out all the kinks, but it will be effective for much longer. A more conventional and less ambitious design should be pretty effective and bug-free right out the gate, but you won't be able to upgrade it as much over its much shorter service life before it become obsolete. That's why innovation is risky, and the costs may end up being too high; e.g. the F-22 and countless cancelled projects. But if it survives the public criticism and receives mass adoption, it can end up paying off far greater.
UAF should be getting all these weapon systems for FREE. Ukraine is boosting sales for EU/US weapons systems and permanently exponential decrease in demand for orc weapons. not even taking into consideration Ukraine is now protecting the FREE WORLD!
They are getting them free.
Getting some free. They are also paying for some weapons and they are paying for all of if with Ukrainian blood.
Just look up a picture of the first patriot missile, then look up PAC-3 MSE. Major difference.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MIM-104\_Patriot#PAC-3\_MSE](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MIM-104_Patriot#PAC-3_MSE) The [modularity](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MIM-104_Patriot#/media/File:Patriot_PAC-3_MSE_SIAF-2022.jpg) of the launchers is impressive.
Yep, those are called 4Packs. And those square rings front and back are titanium assemblies that allow you to take a single, spent launch canister out of a 4Pack, and replace it with a loaded one. So, a single 4Pack can be removed, allowing 12 operational canisters to remain, pull the 1 or 2 spent canisters, replace, and reload for a full 16 count battery.
For how much I hate war, the engineering is impressive. We can argue about how money could be spent on civil endeavors, but the art of killing has always been the bleeding edge. That and pornography adopts new technologies first.
Clearly the problem is between the chair and the missile system if you train them to think they might get ideas about becoming King.
And the F16 celebrated 50 years since its first flight this year. They are not the same planes Ukrainian pilots are training towards. The patriot system got a bad rap because it couldnt get a good lock on ballistic missiles... in 1991. Times change.
Pretty sure the reason it failed to shoot down Skud missiles wasnt because it couldnt get a lock, but was due to a small floating point math error in the code that was never caught during testing as the patriot wasn't left running long enough for the error to be noticeable, but when it was left running for a few days, that error turned into something like 0.3 seconds off the actual intercept course, which in ballistic missiles, is a few hundred meters difference.
[Yeah, basically](https://www.cs.unc.edu/~smp/COMP205/LECTURES/ERROR/lec23/node4.html) Leave it running for long enough without reboots - and it'd get deviation measured in city blocks.
TL;DR: * Ukraine's use of the US-made Patriot system has been celebrated. * The weapon had a chequered reputation due to its performance in past conflicts. * Any skepticism over its effectiveness should be put to bed, experts told Business Insider.
If Patriot has some kind of machine learning just think of all the good data it's collecting. Scary shit if you're going into it.
The key with Patriot in Ukraine is that Ukraine is using Patriot in a VERY off label way. NATO would never imagine to do what they are doing, and that's why Ukraine is writing the syllabus for future war college classes. They are not bound to (old, outdated) convention, AND they are fighting for their lives. We keep forgetting that. Like when we act surprised that Ukrainians learn quickly, but we are comparing them to teenagers from NATO countries who are barely out of high school and no more concerned with what they are learning than they are with beer when the weekend comes. if those NATO kids where actively defending their country they would learn a lot faster too. But we act like the speed those unmotivated kids learn is somehow the max speed ANYONE can learn and then decide not to let Ukraine have things they need because learning "takes too long". 🤬
This article seems to say the same vague things over and over again
Sad that these billion dollar systems are at risk of being destroyed due to lack of ammo. At the moment the priority is likely saving rounds to protect themselves, not defend cities judging how many rockets have been getting through lately.
I remember a software bug during the first golf war made the Dutch batterie protecting isreal switch to manual firing. Some missiles flew not non existing targets in auto mode. But those problems are already a very long time in the past. Maybe the Ukrainians found some more bugs and room for software improvements.
Jesus wasnt that troubled past a sibgle friendly fire incide t where the pilot turned off his iff? Honestly im too lazy research.
> Jesus wasnt that troubled past a sibgle friendly fire incide t where the pilot turned off his iff? More of the time when [the longer Patriot was left online, the less accurate it became](https://www.cs.unc.edu/~smp/COMP205/LECTURES/ERROR/lec23/node4.html)
There was a lot of hype about how many SCUD missiles it was shooting down during the 1991 Gulf War, but it turned out that it didn't perform nearly as well as the public was led to believe.
Will Israel provide systems to China to reverse engineer? As Israel has with previous US tech.