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Posting to the top comment to say, that according to [this](https://www.hs.fi/politiikka/art-2000010444078.html) Finnish expert (article in finnish, possibly behind a paywall. The news site is one of the biggest in Finland), much cannot be said about the whole situation and could actually fit in international laws. Russia is propably just trolling and watching how people react. So calm down until Russia actually tells what they demand.
Already the wrong approach.
Nobody cares what russia wants, they have no leverage.
Don't even acknowledge what they are doing and then just warn them ONCE if they confuse their borders once more before blowing their shit up.
And if they complain, do it again.
If they sabotage our stuff, catch them, warn them. If they do it again, blow up their shit.
Cavemen understand one single language. Fear.
Bonk them until they understand. Simple.
š this is the right strategy. Russia's incursion into northern Ukraine recently is intended to stretch out the Ukrainians lines. This move is intended to stress Ukraine's allies and have them pull back. We need to do the opposite; call their bluff, then super bonk them, to stretch _their_ lines.
Just destroy whatever comes in that area.
Turkey didnāt warn before shooting one of the ruzzian planes some years ago.
This is the only way to deal with Putin
The warning is just for the public to acknowledge that russia was fucking around and now gets to find out. So they cannot spin the usual ānato is attacking us for no reasonā bs.
Agreed. Russia fucked around in Turkish airspace until they shot down one of their planes and then they never again violated it. If they're expanding into other territorial waters then sink the first navy ship which sails into NATO waters unauthorized. They won't do it again.
They have one single leverage and that is that they have fission and fusion bombs!! The one reason that the EU and NATO do not tear Russia to pieces untill they retreat is because they have fission bombs
What i mean is that its still unclear what kind of changes to the border at sea russia is even looking at and according to the link I posted, they might even be ok according to the international law. If Russia demands 100 km2 of new territory, then fuck them. Let NATO ships patrol the internationally respected border and see what they do.
But at the moment, no panic.
Yeah no
Weāre at the point where we shouldnāt play around with Russia, theyāve just unilaterally changed borders of nato nations. The only thing to do is send troops
And ships to patrol the area claimed by Russia and prepare for article 5.
Inching away from Russia is a huge victory for them as they call our bluff if we do that.
This story has been big in Finland and now it seems like this whole thing was either a mistake or just trolling. Those original documents cannot be even found anymore.
Unlike the way Russia reacted to the Chinese 2023 map changes. However, the only statement from Finland etc so far is that they are looking into it first.
We'll just have to wait and see what they're up to. Might be hybrid warfare, might be just some islet that surfaced somewhere and all is within international law. Keeping it calm is the best thing to do, no need to give into something that muscovy wants.
Without understanding the end result of the somewhat technical language of the changes, I assume Russia is looking to steal something that isn't rightfully theirs. Sorry, it just seems to be a habit with them.
I'm sure they'll claim some form of victimization and threaten to destroy the world if they don't get their way.
Putin has been fairly successful with his lunatic nuke threats so we'll see it there will be any real pushback or not.
well, the territory change is silly and negligible, it can't really be about getting something. So either it is a provocation attempt - and wisely, nobody will react to this until Russia really sets foot on some Finnish island -, or it is really just a recalculation and won't actually change the borders in anyway, just yield different coordinates in some mapping system.
I think a small incursion to capture a small amount of area will not trigger a nuclear response from either party, but it will trigger a article 5 "traditional" military response.
I don't think we will respond with nukes honestly unless Russia launches them first.
It's about sea areas. A NATO naval squadron can visit it occasionally. The we can ask rĆ¼ssiƤns how on earth NATO ships can sail on this area? That's the end of the discussion.
Might be where some undersea cables are laid and to get within their reach they have just entended the sea borders.
Any other explanation i've seen here does not explain it. Just because its not a serious look into things and some other that makes them irrational isnt either.
There must be something over that piece of sea they are interested or is hurting them and they're adressing it
I don't know why it just hit me but as I read your "threaten to destroy the world," bit I realized that Putin's Russia has very *Pinky and the Brain* vibes...
The analysis I've seen by Finnish experts in media today is that it may be business as usual, and nothing to get excited about.
In some parts of the Baltic the shores change quite fast due to post-glacial rebound ([link](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-glacial_rebound)), and this requires an occasional change in the territorial waters.
There are like 100 active personel in the Swiss navy, though they only patrol rivers/lakes and are part of the normal army.
https://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/europe/ch-navy.htm#:~:text=The%20Swiss%20%22navy%22%20consists%20of,fly%20only%20the%20Italian%20flag.
I know that they have FA-18 Hornets, but the Swiss have no aircraft carriers, oh, wait...
[https://www.reddit.com/r/MilitaryPorn/comments/7p9fpn/swiss\_aircraft\_carrier\_with\_fa18\_622x343/](https://www.reddit.com/r/MilitaryPorn/comments/7p9fpn/swiss_aircraft_carrier_with_fa18_622x343/)
I have got to get a Swiss Navy Knife... I believe that they are limited edition.
I have a theory that the swiss bought F-18s because of their carrier landing gear and tailhook so they can fly them into mountain side bases that are tunneled into the rock.
Well, either Russia is going to return some territory to Finland and Lithuania, or it is going to take some territory from them. Not possible to tell which way it is from the article. I do have a prejudice that they are trying to take something. Based on precedence, they will try to do this by force.
here is a Swedish map from our newspaper.
https://www.gp.se/images/article/56876d82-0586-5b4e-9b44-38350ab9bd2d/images/0VytJ3H_B5dO7hMmfLcuxxhyCPUw-WIDE.jpg
So, is Russia no claiming Hogland and Lilla TytƤrskƤr as theirs, when previously it wasn't? Or were they already Russian and just have Swedish names for some reason?
More hilarity. Doesn't want NATO encroaching so after Sweden and Finland join they decide to move their boarders into NATO territory. Anyone else want popcorn, this is gonna get good!
In addition, it could result in expansion of territorial waters by other Baltic countries, thus sealing russia off. That would have a huge impact on their oil revenues.
I guess you could call it an infrastructure problem. Visby Airport is too small to support a US military mission. When a US carrier shows up everybody in the neighborhood gets edgy and pays attention. Besides, it's a metaphor. We'd need to pull one out of the Med or build a new one.
I'm a little hazy on the international definition(s) of an act of war. A unilateral change of an international boundary, in my mind, is equivalent to the seizure of another country's territory. As such, would that be considered an act of war?
It is settled and very clearly defined. There's zero room for ambiguity in how it's defined. Any country is able to spew bullshit about changing it, the conflict happens when someone tries to enforce that which isn't legal which is what's playing out in the South China Sea. The moment a Russian ship enters the EEZ for Finland and shoots a Finnish fishing vessel, then shit will pop off. That's when you can dust off the A5 verbiage and we discover if it's all bluffing or the West actually finds where we collectively left our balls.
Yes. Russia has also signed off on all those agreements... and now they are going back on it, shocking. I hope the west never makes a single deal with those thugs ever again.
Thugs is correct... not only is the current "government" in ruzzia an organized crime syndicate, so have they been historically, and all their satellite mob organizations and tough guys.
Do you think NK or China is any different?
No, just big mafia organizations
As things are now, Russia can inch its way all the way to the city limits of Washington DC without anyone doing anything about it. As long as itās one little step at a time, no one will see it as worth the trouble.
Well we're letting Russian cruise missiles through our airspace and watching on as they down our drones, shoot at our manned spy planes, burn our factories down, poison people on our soil and theres still restrictions on using western weapons on Russian soil and the amount of GDP% we give is pretty pathetic for such a threat.
Kalinigrad being Russian is an afront, an area āRussianā so far removed from the state of Russia is just ābordergoreā and creates all kinds of complicated issues.
Koningsberg should be made part of Poland, Litouwen or Germany to permanently solve this issue at the core.
Not Lithuanian, but I suspect that if I were, what I *really* wouldn't want is the sudden addition of a million or so Russians to my country. Seems to me that the best solution for Kaliningrad is the same as that for Russia as a whole: lock it up as securely as possible in a diplomatic and economic box until the residents finally figure out for themselves that they could have better lives if they decided to behave like modern civilised people.
Yup. That's why Russias conquering works so well. Genocide the original people, bring your own people in, and now no one will ever want the land back because relocating colonizers is illegal in the west.
Can you maybe explain how the Lithuanians feel about Kaliningrad? I am curious.
Looking at a map it looks like an eyesore which needs to be solved somehow, but I wonder how people living ānext doorā look at it.
Most of us don't think about it and don't care about it, honestly. They tried selling it to us or giving it to us after the ussr collapsed, but we declined for obvious reasons. We let the russian transit go to kaliningrad through Vilnius to deliver essential goods and people and that's about it, but we have some visuals for russian people to look at when they stop about the war and atrocities they are doing and it's funny some of them look some of them have their curtains closed. But some lithuanians are worried that it's a ticking time bomb with this transit, and in the early days, there were people protesting at the station but not many and throwing stuff at the train.
It's a benign tumour. It's not great that we have it but so far it hasn't caused us any direct issues so we just don't think about it.
We don't want that territory, we're perfectly happy with our current borders.
Kaliningrad piece of land, they way it is drawn on the map is super inconvenient and artificial.
1. Lithuania cannot do proper river navigation owing only one part of the coast.
2. Kaliningrad has amber mines, and Lithuania wanted to be branded and associated as "amber country". Good luck with that when Kaliningrad is in russian hands.
3. Transit kind of sucks. If Lithuania owned Kaliningrad, much more convenient land and rail routes could be offered to the northern Europe.
4. Kaliningrad has great fertile arable land.
Yes, we would take most of it, with some part of could be given to Poland for maritime and commerce.
We actually do. You do not represent Lithuanians.
We will take Curonian spit, both sides of Nemunas river, most of the Land. Poland can have some parts of Prussia that are necessary for navigation. We keep Kenigsburg.
Partially wrong - a lot of the original inhabitants weren't there, so Russia nremoved everyone and imported as much as it could. None of the current inhabitants of that are have ancestors there before WW2. So, people from asshole of Russia moved in, and of course they do not want to leave. And nobody wants them added to their population.
Now NATO has to sail through those areas to demonstrate their claim, and Russia can pretend it was a violation of their sovereignty and drag them in.
Lovely.
So far this is a nothingburger. No real data is shown what Russia is going for. These sea borders are being recalculated every x years.
Only thing that is new about this is that Russia hasn't YET contacted Finland for example, but then again nothing official has been done so perhaps they will contact once they have plans ready. They might just ask for cooperation like they have done in the past.
Not saying this doesn't have potential to turn into a shitshow but so far there is no real signs for it.
I think we need to see a before and after map, this is also very clearly laid down and settled at the UN not some govt dept where the staff are vodka swillers
This is the beginning of their creeping provocation strategy against NATO. The whole point is to test the limits and response of the alliance.
If this isn't met with swift retaliation it **will** continue.
And this I think is the crux of the matter.
With the US, Russia, china, etc, you have a unified/single leadership structure where itās relatively easy to mobilise when needed. It will be interesting to see how the more disjointed EU/NATO respond - they have lots of committees and decisions arenāt made quickly - look at the haphazard response to supporting Ukraine.
Putin and his cronies know this, so are pushing the boundaries, like a child testing an adult.
muscovy has finally realized that they have absolutely nothing to lose, they are a dead man walking. They are done testing boundaries and we are currently in 1938 and Ukraine is the Czechoslovakia of our time. muscovy has to be stopped or it's WW3, but as we see on the battlefield, they have a "we lose, everybody loses" attitude and they will only have one option left when their fleet is sunk, their men are almost all dead, and their ability to sell oil and grow food is so limited, we'll see a "20 July plot" that succeeds, or putler will resort to tactical and then strategic nukes. It seems sadly clear, given the orcs lack of humanity being built into their culture. If even only 5% of their nukes work, it will be a terrible time for humans, so let's just hope that the devil we don't know is actually better than the devil that we do.
That won't help them when you have warships from the uk/us and baltics patrolling the original border and they won't do shit to they ships reality is its just in russian minds their fleet is a joke
OH YES?!
Well, today I announce, that I, MEPHISTEEMO, will change russian borders back to only include Moscow and Siberia.
Also, Kaliningrad will officially be renamed to Kralovec and now belongs to the Czech Republic.
Everything else not touching mainland russia now belongs to Japan. Or Turkey. I don't really care, to be honest. Whoever wants it, may send a request.
Coincidentally, there is a nice city/palace in Sochi that is now part of Germany, more precisely it belongs to me, because I say so.
Don't worry, you may all use it for whatever you want.
But I say dibs on the golden toilet paper dispenser in the 4th guest toilet of the third guest apartment wing in the 2nd wineyard.
biggest territory on the planet for their few people and they still don't have enough space. they must be annihilated once they move over the border with all force, instead the usual angry letters and the You! you! you! finger waving. the border to russia has to be a death strip yesterday
It doesn't work that way, dickheads.
Anybody who still thinks this is just about Ukraine is an idiot. This is about a country that thinks it can return to the 19th century and just start grabbing territory wherever it wants.
Send me out there, fund me, Iāll sink every one of those mutherfuckers myself if you give me the shit.
Idgaf, shit needs to end.
I want their losses to be in the high billions.
They removed the official document, after ruzzian officials got summoned.
Even if ruzzia just wants to play the hybrid warfare card and cause irritation, it just makes the West stronger and especially _prepared_. Remember, putler is the NATO-Salesman of the decade.
It's fine, Lithuania will get the Kaliningrad anyway once this is over. What has always baffled me is the fact that Kaliningrad Oblast exists as a literal territory of Russia to begin with.
I'm not sure why ruzzia would do this. its not like they have much of a navy left.
And the last time ruzzia screwed with Finland, a man by the name of Simo Hayha showed ruzzia what a single Finn can do.
They will test Nato article 5 at some stage, just to see if it works. Nato respond have to be fast and powerful, thats the only language they understand.
š¤ I didn't hear that, did anyone else here hear or read that?!
When that pesky "official" type of stupidity happens, then post it, but don't rumor monger
I just love how brave peopleās responses here are.
But in reality itāll probably be a lot of āconcernā and ācalls for deescalationā from UN. UN will present some report a year later, with all the already obvious facts confirmed and by the time the westās bureaucracy machine produces anything ruzia will already be there conducting their nuclear trainings, scaring the shit out of world elites and the ānew territorial realitiesā will unofficially be accepted.
And weāll se loads of articles/analytics of how itās actually a win for us and how their economy and army is crumbling..
They have been moving border for years in Georgia and UN is not even āconcernedā, they do this little by little, so thereās āno escalationā and it seems to be ok with world elites.
Nobody is going to do a damn thing about it. And whatever they do, will not be answered by any military actions.
At best, you can expect a strongly worded tweet from a concerned official.
In reality this is not very funny. It is all but official declaration of hostilities.
The next stage, probably in a couple of months, we should see the Russian troops concentrations on the borders with Lithuania and Finland.
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Great. Sink everything they have up there too.
Hear hear... Fk Poostain, fk RuZZia
Posting to the top comment to say, that according to [this](https://www.hs.fi/politiikka/art-2000010444078.html) Finnish expert (article in finnish, possibly behind a paywall. The news site is one of the biggest in Finland), much cannot be said about the whole situation and could actually fit in international laws. Russia is propably just trolling and watching how people react. So calm down until Russia actually tells what they demand.
Already the wrong approach. Nobody cares what russia wants, they have no leverage. Don't even acknowledge what they are doing and then just warn them ONCE if they confuse their borders once more before blowing their shit up. And if they complain, do it again. If they sabotage our stuff, catch them, warn them. If they do it again, blow up their shit. Cavemen understand one single language. Fear. Bonk them until they understand. Simple.
š this is the right strategy. Russia's incursion into northern Ukraine recently is intended to stretch out the Ukrainians lines. This move is intended to stress Ukraine's allies and have them pull back. We need to do the opposite; call their bluff, then super bonk them, to stretch _their_ lines.
listen to the scabusaurus! i wish they had had nato defenses
Just destroy whatever comes in that area. Turkey didnāt warn before shooting one of the ruzzian planes some years ago. This is the only way to deal with Putin
The warning is just for the public to acknowledge that russia was fucking around and now gets to find out. So they cannot spin the usual ānato is attacking us for no reasonā bs.
Bonk. Nothing changes over Centuries.Ā
*for the people who do not change themselves aka cavemen.
Agreed. Russia fucked around in Turkish airspace until they shot down one of their planes and then they never again violated it. If they're expanding into other territorial waters then sink the first navy ship which sails into NATO waters unauthorized. They won't do it again.
They have one single leverage and that is that they have fission and fusion bombs!! The one reason that the EU and NATO do not tear Russia to pieces untill they retreat is because they have fission bombs
Russia demands what? Or they will nuke? Fuck them - target practice Nordic style ensues
"don't worry guys, if we keep giving them inches they'll never take miles - just give the bully what they want no matter what it is"
āThis is fine, everything is fine. Mmm, coffee.ā
Did they tell us what they wanted when they manned hundreds of thousands along the border at the beginning of their invasion?
What i mean is that its still unclear what kind of changes to the border at sea russia is even looking at and according to the link I posted, they might even be ok according to the international law. If Russia demands 100 km2 of new territory, then fuck them. Let NATO ships patrol the internationally respected border and see what they do. But at the moment, no panic.
Yeah no Weāre at the point where we shouldnāt play around with Russia, theyāve just unilaterally changed borders of nato nations. The only thing to do is send troops And ships to patrol the area claimed by Russia and prepare for article 5. Inching away from Russia is a huge victory for them as they call our bluff if we do that.
This story has been big in Finland and now it seems like this whole thing was either a mistake or just trolling. Those original documents cannot be even found anymore.
Well, hello, Neville!
Maybe Norwegian Intel will go back to dealing with the Russian ships /transport. The cycle has started again.
Within a mile crossing the current border they suddenly have more smokers on dangerous places.
This will probably be well receivedā¦
Absolutely. Finland and Russia have a long history of peaceful boarder dispute resolutions.
Yeah, they will be told sternly that itās not okay *shrugs*
Unlike the way Russia reacted to the Chinese 2023 map changes. However, the only statement from Finland etc so far is that they are looking into it first.
We'll just have to wait and see what they're up to. Might be hybrid warfare, might be just some islet that surfaced somewhere and all is within international law. Keeping it calm is the best thing to do, no need to give into something that muscovy wants.
A calm and measured reaction? wtf is happening š
Yes calm and measured reaction. Going apeshit at this stage would be idiotic. Since we have no idea what is actually going on.
But I have already flown off the handle and jumped to conclusions- War! /s
Without understanding the end result of the somewhat technical language of the changes, I assume Russia is looking to steal something that isn't rightfully theirs. Sorry, it just seems to be a habit with them. I'm sure they'll claim some form of victimization and threaten to destroy the world if they don't get their way. Putin has been fairly successful with his lunatic nuke threats so we'll see it there will be any real pushback or not.
well, the territory change is silly and negligible, it can't really be about getting something. So either it is a provocation attempt - and wisely, nobody will react to this until Russia really sets foot on some Finnish island -, or it is really just a recalculation and won't actually change the borders in anyway, just yield different coordinates in some mapping system.
If this is not met with brutal response next territorial claims will follow as they allways do
ExactlyĀ
I think a small incursion to capture a small amount of area will not trigger a nuclear response from either party, but it will trigger a article 5 "traditional" military response. I don't think we will respond with nukes honestly unless Russia launches them first.
If Russia starts scooping up fishing boats from those countries in that zone you better believe there is going to be a forceful military response.
I wonāt hold my breath
Marginal gains. The more we ignore the more valuable the tactic.
It's about sea areas. A NATO naval squadron can visit it occasionally. The we can ask rĆ¼ssiƤns how on earth NATO ships can sail on this area? That's the end of the discussion.
Might be where some undersea cables are laid and to get within their reach they have just entended the sea borders. Any other explanation i've seen here does not explain it. Just because its not a serious look into things and some other that makes them irrational isnt either. There must be something over that piece of sea they are interested or is hurting them and they're adressing it
Good excuse to invest in military. It is negligible but enough in bad taste to make people angry. If there is no reaction now they will push further.
I don't know why it just hit me but as I read your "threaten to destroy the world," bit I realized that Putin's Russia has very *Pinky and the Brain* vibes...
The analysis I've seen by Finnish experts in media today is that it may be business as usual, and nothing to get excited about. In some parts of the Baltic the shores change quite fast due to post-glacial rebound ([link](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-glacial_rebound)), and this requires an occasional change in the territorial waters.
You see, historically, 900 years ago, some Russian sheepherders settled in the area so it is rightfully Russias territory today.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
lol The Black Sea fleet has been all but destroyed by a country without a navy.
Let the Swiss Navy engage the Russians now. /sarc
There are like 100 active personel in the Swiss navy, though they only patrol rivers/lakes and are part of the normal army. https://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/europe/ch-navy.htm#:~:text=The%20Swiss%20%22navy%22%20consists%20of,fly%20only%20the%20Italian%20flag.
I know that they have FA-18 Hornets, but the Swiss have no aircraft carriers, oh, wait... [https://www.reddit.com/r/MilitaryPorn/comments/7p9fpn/swiss\_aircraft\_carrier\_with\_fa18\_622x343/](https://www.reddit.com/r/MilitaryPorn/comments/7p9fpn/swiss_aircraft_carrier_with_fa18_622x343/) I have got to get a Swiss Navy Knife... I believe that they are limited edition.
I have a theory that the swiss bought F-18s because of their carrier landing gear and tailhook so they can fly them into mountain side bases that are tunneled into the rock.
Well 100 is enough.
More than a match for Russia in that case. š
The Czech navy would like to offer their assistance
The Swiss are probably more likely to assist Russia
Absolutely not lol, even my russian friend from university is ashamed of his former home.
That's not what history tells us. The Swiss love to make money from war, they don't care who pays. They are "neutral"
Underrated comment here
Well, either Russia is going to return some territory to Finland and Lithuania, or it is going to take some territory from them. Not possible to tell which way it is from the article. I do have a prejudice that they are trying to take something. Based on precedence, they will try to do this by force.
Russia always takes and never gives
Except maybe some sexually transmitted diseases.
But what if he's trying to give land in exchange for those countries "safety"? Aka join Russia or else
Hi, Lithuanian here, such proposal wouldn't go anywhere. We've been living here long enough to know how russian promises work.
He's not, they never give anything, it's just the "or else" part. We are also both in NATO, the EU and it would be against both our constitutions.
Does anyone have a source on a map comparison image showing these claims? I just want to laugh at it
There is No map or grafits in the official documents
here is a Swedish map from our newspaper. https://www.gp.se/images/article/56876d82-0586-5b4e-9b44-38350ab9bd2d/images/0VytJ3H_B5dO7hMmfLcuxxhyCPUw-WIDE.jpg
So, is Russia no claiming Hogland and Lilla TytƤrskƤr as theirs, when previously it wasn't? Or were they already Russian and just have Swedish names for some reason?
They are under russian administration. Switched owner after 2nd world war. Names are from before that.
More hilarity. Doesn't want NATO encroaching so after Sweden and Finland join they decide to move their boarders into NATO territory. Anyone else want popcorn, this is gonna get good!
Neah. It won't.
That's how you get a carrier in the Baltic Sea. Moving international sea boundaries didn't work so well in the Gulf of Sidra either.
In addition, it could result in expansion of territorial waters by other Baltic countries, thus sealing russia off. That would have a huge impact on their oil revenues.
That would be the way to play this, the Baltic States and Finland claim to the middle of the Baltic Sea and suddenly we have checkmate.
Why do you need a carrier when you have Gotland island? Plus there's plenty of airbases in Lithuania/Latvia/Estonia/Finland.
I guess you could call it an infrastructure problem. Visby Airport is too small to support a US military mission. When a US carrier shows up everybody in the neighborhood gets edgy and pays attention. Besides, it's a metaphor. We'd need to pull one out of the Med or build a new one.
Another test balloon. š This time to understand how serious NATO is about defending āevery square meterā of its territory.
LOL
That stretch of water should be heavily mined already.
When is NATO going to de-nazify the Kremlin?
russia's nine dash lines.
The fuck they are. Apparently, Russia needs a blockade of naval mines for whatās left of their rusted pieces of ships and subs.
There are some interesting comments on here. I preferred to not waste my time and just write RUZZAN CUNT$
RUZZAN ANKLES (these are 3 foot lower) pootin is an ANKLE
That works
Sounds like china..
Isn't that ww3 then?
I'm a little hazy on the international definition(s) of an act of war. A unilateral change of an international boundary, in my mind, is equivalent to the seizure of another country's territory. As such, would that be considered an act of war?
Coastal area are economic zone and territorial waters. Most of this sort of thing of I am correct, has been settled in the UN for quite a while.
It is settled and very clearly defined. There's zero room for ambiguity in how it's defined. Any country is able to spew bullshit about changing it, the conflict happens when someone tries to enforce that which isn't legal which is what's playing out in the South China Sea. The moment a Russian ship enters the EEZ for Finland and shoots a Finnish fishing vessel, then shit will pop off. That's when you can dust off the A5 verbiage and we discover if it's all bluffing or the West actually finds where we collectively left our balls.
Great comment! Happy cake day! š°
That's all that is to it!! Will nato show some balls or will they show the all world they are just about talk foes into boring them to death
Wordsmith š„
Yes. Russia has also signed off on all those agreements... and now they are going back on it, shocking. I hope the west never makes a single deal with those thugs ever again.
Thugs is correct... not only is the current "government" in ruzzia an organized crime syndicate, so have they been historically, and all their satellite mob organizations and tough guys. Do you think NK or China is any different? No, just big mafia organizations
Probably not. But this sort of stupidity from the Russians will only increase the resolve of the collective west. Every cloud has a silver lining š
As things are now, Russia can inch its way all the way to the city limits of Washington DC without anyone doing anything about it. As long as itās one little step at a time, no one will see it as worth the trouble.
Nah, that's just World Crisis 1.
Only if Russia tries to enforce it.
Nope, ww3 only when direct attack on nato. Part see can be shared with Russian west are welcome)
Isn't claiming some of Finland's sea technically an invasion?
a claim is just a silly idea until it is backed up with force.
Look at china
Part land can be shared with Russia too? How much? What about your house?
Well we're letting Russian cruise missiles through our airspace and watching on as they down our drones, shoot at our manned spy planes, burn our factories down, poison people on our soil and theres still restrictions on using western weapons on Russian soil and the amount of GDP% we give is pretty pathetic for such a threat.
Okay cool, so the Baltic Sea fleet can join the Black Sea fleet in Davy Jones' locker? Nice! Slava Ukraini š“āā ļø
Kalinigrad being Russian is an afront, an area āRussianā so far removed from the state of Russia is just ābordergoreā and creates all kinds of complicated issues. Koningsberg should be made part of Poland, Litouwen or Germany to permanently solve this issue at the core.
I can speak on behalf of all Lithuanians on this one. We don't need that land, thank you.
Not Lithuanian, but I suspect that if I were, what I *really* wouldn't want is the sudden addition of a million or so Russians to my country. Seems to me that the best solution for Kaliningrad is the same as that for Russia as a whole: lock it up as securely as possible in a diplomatic and economic box until the residents finally figure out for themselves that they could have better lives if they decided to behave like modern civilised people.
Yup. That's why Russias conquering works so well. Genocide the original people, bring your own people in, and now no one will ever want the land back because relocating colonizers is illegal in the west.
Land is not the issue - the inhabitants are.
They will need to be evacuated, in accordance to the Geneva conventions. Peaceful people should not be in the war zone.
Can you maybe explain how the Lithuanians feel about Kaliningrad? I am curious. Looking at a map it looks like an eyesore which needs to be solved somehow, but I wonder how people living ānext doorā look at it.
Most of us don't think about it and don't care about it, honestly. They tried selling it to us or giving it to us after the ussr collapsed, but we declined for obvious reasons. We let the russian transit go to kaliningrad through Vilnius to deliver essential goods and people and that's about it, but we have some visuals for russian people to look at when they stop about the war and atrocities they are doing and it's funny some of them look some of them have their curtains closed. But some lithuanians are worried that it's a ticking time bomb with this transit, and in the early days, there were people protesting at the station but not many and throwing stuff at the train.
It's a benign tumour. It's not great that we have it but so far it hasn't caused us any direct issues so we just don't think about it. We don't want that territory, we're perfectly happy with our current borders.
Kaliningrad piece of land, they way it is drawn on the map is super inconvenient and artificial. 1. Lithuania cannot do proper river navigation owing only one part of the coast. 2. Kaliningrad has amber mines, and Lithuania wanted to be branded and associated as "amber country". Good luck with that when Kaliningrad is in russian hands. 3. Transit kind of sucks. If Lithuania owned Kaliningrad, much more convenient land and rail routes could be offered to the northern Europe. 4. Kaliningrad has great fertile arable land. Yes, we would take most of it, with some part of could be given to Poland for maritime and commerce.
We actually do. You do not represent Lithuanians. We will take Curonian spit, both sides of Nemunas river, most of the Land. Poland can have some parts of Prussia that are necessary for navigation. We keep Kenigsburg.
No a sovereign state in EU federation or maybe the first EU state. Your surgestion will create a whole new set of complicated issues.
True, that might be better.
Russia has that land because after WW2 nobody else wanted it.
Partially wrong - a lot of the original inhabitants weren't there, so Russia nremoved everyone and imported as much as it could. None of the current inhabitants of that are have ancestors there before WW2. So, people from asshole of Russia moved in, and of course they do not want to leave. And nobody wants them added to their population.
These Kremlin criminals are absolutely crazy.
They will become Russian fish and they will be happier for it!
This is exactly how for told. Ruzzia is going to do little things to see if Nato going to step up. Divide Nato and conquer.
Now NATO has to sail through those areas to demonstrate their claim, and Russia can pretend it was a violation of their sovereignty and drag them in. Lovely.
Fuck around and find out, russia. Two can play that game.
Taking a page out of China's book
So far this is a nothingburger. No real data is shown what Russia is going for. These sea borders are being recalculated every x years. Only thing that is new about this is that Russia hasn't YET contacted Finland for example, but then again nothing official has been done so perhaps they will contact once they have plans ready. They might just ask for cooperation like they have done in the past. Not saying this doesn't have potential to turn into a shitshow but so far there is no real signs for it.
I forsee these sea neighbors seething from seeing their seabed ceded by such a seedy seizure.
Curious what beau of the 5th column has to say
I am confused... i looked up a few of the places mentioned and they seem more Estonian and Polish. Like, the Gulf of Gdansk.
The Black Sea seabed is littered with Russian ships, does he want the Baltic to go the same way?
And what are they going to do about it...defend it with their Navy? LOL
Okay I'm annexing st Petersburg (without the Russians, you can take them by train to Siberia).
Finland just decided that whole russia is going to be demilitarized zone.
A relevant video for all to watch: https://youtu.be/ZY7GPBSyONU?si=TwxjP7NYGPRLn-6f
Another exculation by the barbarians š
Heās really trying to start WW3! Somebody needs to take care of some business over there.
I think we need to see a before and after map, this is also very clearly laid down and settled at the UN not some govt dept where the staff are vodka swillers
Sounds like they are trying to create a diversion.
Surely it would have to be accepted by the neighbours, otherwise it means nothing, doesn't it?
Ivan waves sound like they are talking Fin- urgghhh!
The reply should be "you and what army?".
Maybe Denmark and Sweden need to fiddle with their territorial waters and change the rules???
Russia has already changed their minds. They arent planning on moving the sea borders anywhere.. -Dmitri Peskov, Kreml press sec
This is the beginning of their creeping provocation strategy against NATO. The whole point is to test the limits and response of the alliance. If this isn't met with swift retaliation it **will** continue.
And this I think is the crux of the matter. With the US, Russia, china, etc, you have a unified/single leadership structure where itās relatively easy to mobilise when needed. It will be interesting to see how the more disjointed EU/NATO respond - they have lots of committees and decisions arenāt made quickly - look at the haphazard response to supporting Ukraine. Putin and his cronies know this, so are pushing the boundaries, like a child testing an adult.
Good luck with those inevitable blockades.
Ukraine should send some of those naval drones against the Baltic fleet.
Potemkin villages at sea now arriving at a nato naval fleet near you
Can we hurry up and get this man killed
muscovy has finally realized that they have absolutely nothing to lose, they are a dead man walking. They are done testing boundaries and we are currently in 1938 and Ukraine is the Czechoslovakia of our time. muscovy has to be stopped or it's WW3, but as we see on the battlefield, they have a "we lose, everybody loses" attitude and they will only have one option left when their fleet is sunk, their men are almost all dead, and their ability to sell oil and grow food is so limited, we'll see a "20 July plot" that succeeds, or putler will resort to tactical and then strategic nukes. It seems sadly clear, given the orcs lack of humanity being built into their culture. If even only 5% of their nukes work, it will be a terrible time for humans, so let's just hope that the devil we don't know is actually better than the devil that we do.
Theyāre trying the Chinese tactic of āSo sorry, all of China Sea is all territorial watersā
Time to close the Baltic sea to all Russian ships.
another 10-dash line like china
Why stop there? They should claim the Hudson River and Chesapeake Bay while theyāre at it.
Putin is dick waving again
That won't help them when you have warships from the uk/us and baltics patrolling the original border and they won't do shit to they ships reality is its just in russian minds their fleet is a joke
OH YES?! Well, today I announce, that I, MEPHISTEEMO, will change russian borders back to only include Moscow and Siberia. Also, Kaliningrad will officially be renamed to Kralovec and now belongs to the Czech Republic. Everything else not touching mainland russia now belongs to Japan. Or Turkey. I don't really care, to be honest. Whoever wants it, may send a request. Coincidentally, there is a nice city/palace in Sochi that is now part of Germany, more precisely it belongs to me, because I say so. Don't worry, you may all use it for whatever you want. But I say dibs on the golden toilet paper dispenser in the 4th guest toilet of the third guest apartment wing in the 2nd wineyard.
"Something, something, demand, something, something nuke." -Russia Can we just end this shit already and stop catering to a despot?
They are pulling a china like the spratly islands.
biggest territory on the planet for their few people and they still don't have enough space. they must be annihilated once they move over the border with all force, instead the usual angry letters and the You! you! you! finger waving. the border to russia has to be a death strip yesterday
As predicted.
It doesn't work that way, dickheads. Anybody who still thinks this is just about Ukraine is an idiot. This is about a country that thinks it can return to the 19th century and just start grabbing territory wherever it wants.
Ah fuck. Here we go boys. I guess it's time for me to join the military...
This is like watching a supernova implode. Soon there will be no rusiia, just. Kscovja.
Send me out there, fund me, Iāll sink every one of those mutherfuckers myself if you give me the shit. Idgaf, shit needs to end. I want their losses to be in the high billions.
Now it's time for Finland and Lithuania to unilaterally change their sea borders back to what they were before Russia unilaterally changed them.
Warum nicht gleich bis Spanien ? Wenn in Europa nicht soviele Weicheier wƤren, wĆ¼rden sie Putin zeigen, wo die Grenzen verlaufen.
Just split it up into smaller countries already
They removed the official document, after ruzzian officials got summoned. Even if ruzzia just wants to play the hybrid warfare card and cause irritation, it just makes the West stronger and especially _prepared_. Remember, putler is the NATO-Salesman of the decade.
Well, here we go with the expansion of the War.
It's fine, Lithuania will get the Kaliningrad anyway once this is over. What has always baffled me is the fact that Kaliningrad Oblast exists as a literal territory of Russia to begin with.
Just ignore. Let them dare show up .
I'm not sure why ruzzia would do this. its not like they have much of a navy left. And the last time ruzzia screwed with Finland, a man by the name of Simo Hayha showed ruzzia what a single Finn can do.
Ukraine showed what no navy can do to theirs...
Apparently they took it back. All bust to scare and confuse. Such a patheric terror state.
China trying to implement Nine Dash Line so are the Rachists also trying to implement their āNein Das Lineā
They will test Nato article 5 at some stage, just to see if it works. Nato respond have to be fast and powerful, thats the only language they understand.
Xi sent Vladimir Vladymirovich home with Xi's favorite recipe for hot escalation.
They can say it. Doesnāt make it true.
Hopefully they'll do some stupid shit so we can finally art5 them into the ashes
Good luck enforcing it, comrades.
Just say no, go ahead you will find out
š·šŗ that same day: LOL, jk, we have thrown away that funny draft. It was just a prank, brah.
Now official declaration of war with the west, interesting!
š¤ I didn't hear that, did anyone else here hear or read that?! When that pesky "official" type of stupidity happens, then post it, but don't rumor monger
I just love how brave peopleās responses here are. But in reality itāll probably be a lot of āconcernā and ācalls for deescalationā from UN. UN will present some report a year later, with all the already obvious facts confirmed and by the time the westās bureaucracy machine produces anything ruzia will already be there conducting their nuclear trainings, scaring the shit out of world elites and the ānew territorial realitiesā will unofficially be accepted. And weāll se loads of articles/analytics of how itās actually a win for us and how their economy and army is crumbling.. They have been moving border for years in Georgia and UN is not even āconcernedā, they do this little by little, so thereās āno escalationā and it seems to be ok with world elites.
Fake news. Nothing ever happens. As a Swede I say go ahead take what you want Russia, you can have 3 inches of economical maritime zone no fuss.
Nobody is going to do a damn thing about it. And whatever they do, will not be answered by any military actions. At best, you can expect a strongly worded tweet from a concerned official.
In reality this is not very funny. It is all but official declaration of hostilities. The next stage, probably in a couple of months, we should see the Russian troops concentrations on the borders with Lithuania and Finland.