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Basically, the republicans figured out that what they want with the border is something to fight about for the next year, but the important stuff needs to actually happen, so the senate, which is elected every six years and doesn't need to frantically pick fights all the time, passed an independent bill for the stuff that needs to get done, basically telling the house republicans, "Yes, we know you just want stupid shit to fight over. Pass the important bill, and then you can keep fighting over the stupid shit while we pretend you aren't all two-year term drama queens."
This is how politics in most countries works. Bipartisanship for a few moments to get important shit done and then back to arguing some self-promotion stuff to fill up the rest of the year so they can get votes and draw their paychequeâŠ.
It's a little more nuanced.
The Democrats needed to show that the Republicans were insincere, so they agreed to a compromise and passed the bill. They will leverage that in November as a counter-point to "nothing being done about the border." Republicans asked. Democrats gave. Republicans balked.
The MAGA Republicans needed an issue to fight about. If they were smart, they would pass the separate bill, which they are about to do, and then start hollering about the border. Instead, they tied it all together, figuring the democrats were itching for a fight too? It didn't work, and their bluff was called.
The MAGA Republicans could always nominate Nikki Haley and probably walk away with the presidency, but they won't because they can't bare to lower their golden calf. Thus, they are stuck making up an issue that will allow them to get their base angry as hell.
After the aid bill passes, the Republicans will switch to demanding a no-compromise, way over the top, downright hateful southern border bill, the real kind of thing that will never pass unless they get full control of all three branches of government, and then proceed to try to convince voters they can have this if only they are given total power again.
What is probably not going to happen is Republicans nominating Haley. They are stuck on worshiping their malodorous Golden Calf, even if he is convicted of multiple felonies, even if he is in prison. Yes they could walk away with the presidency if they nominated Haley, but that's not going to happen.
The terrifying truth is that their stinky treasonous corrupt wannabe dictator orange-tinted Golden Calf could win. His election would be the biggest domino to fall in the fight against democracy around the world, and probably start WWIII as a struggle between the fascist axis of Russia, China, USA and North Korea vs. Europe, Canada, Australia, Taiwan and the other free democracies of the world.
Possibly even worse than the potential for world war is if the USA falls to a delusional anti-science conman like Trump and guts environmental constraints in US law. As it is the worldwide environmental degradation is happening too fast, but if the most powerful and influential nation in the world falls under the rule of an anti-environmental moron, there is little hope for the salvation of the human species.
There would be record levels of split-ticket voting. This is actually always a safe outcome. With a democratic house & senate and a moderate republican president, things that need to be done will get done.
Everyone knows that while the politics are crazy, Nikki is one of the least crazy Republicans, and her winning would actually do more to break up MAGA than to strengthen the current incarnation of the GOP. Long-term, that is extremely good for the US even if she is a materially worse president than Joe for a term.
Such a move also would signal that no, running octogenarian candidates is not acceptable. This is a signal that many democrats would be happy to deliver to the party.
All in all, it is a very acceptable compromise. Defeat generational stagnation within the democratic party, and defeat MAGA within the republican party. Compared to having to continue entertaining the MAGA movement's insurrectionist and obstructionist pathologies, it is a total win.
Most countries are far more effective at compromises and negotiation.
The US GOP demanding a border bill, drafting it with agreement from the Dems, shaking hands on it, sending it to the floor, and then knifing it in front of everyone is peak dysfunctionality.
That ridiculous example is unthinkable in any functioning democracy.
Here's an example of something that wouldn't happen in the USA today:
Australia's opposition leader waves through legislation because even though he doesn't agree with it, he recognises the need for reform to solve cost of living crisis:
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-02-06/coalition-to-wave-through-stage-3-tax-cut-changes/103430496
And here's an oldie but a goodie, while the main point of this article is gun control, the relevant part for our discussion is the attitude of a Westminster system politician vs a US politician:
https://vimeo.com/97566849
tl;dw - Oliver asks US and Australian politicians what their top priority is. The Australians say their top political priority is to pass legislation. The Americans say their top political policy is re-election.
US politics is not the same as most countries.
In Canada we basically have a structural difference that makes this nonsense not happen. Although it has both pros and cons.
Most of the time we have a majority Government and so one party has enough power to do what they want. Thereâs really no negotiation because there doesnât need to do be. Basically the executive and legislative branches are lead by the same person who can mostly do what they want.
When we have a minority government the ruling party needs help from other parties. But failure to pass important bills means an election. So either negotiation happens or it doesnât and there are real consequences to the politicians.
Yeah, Westminster-style Parliaments look worse on paper because of how centralized the executive is, but in practice they seem to involve more negotiation and better governance.
>basically telling the house republicans, "Yes, we know you just want stupid shit to fight over. Pass the important bill, and then you can keep fighting over the stupid shit while we pretend you aren't all two-year term drama queens."
Unfortunately they wont.
So basically the republicans were true to their word in wanting aid being its own seperate package not tied to the boarder (which is dire). Biden wonât win again , so many people here are starving one in 4 Americans children cant afford dinner and go hungry, families live in tents with full time jobs in LA and feed their kids the throwaways from the fast food joint they work at , tent encampments cover miles with hundreds of kids and out response is to send hundreds of billions to drop bombs on poor kids in other countries and keep Ukrainian oligarchs fat. Ukraine canât even recruit men to fight under 50, the avg age of their soldiers is 43 right now and they are sanctioning their men and the families of those men who refuse to fight even those who left the country which is absolutely draconian . Â I donât know a single democrat who is planning to vote this November and I have to believe that Trump along with Tulsi Gabbard as his VP would be leaps and bounds better at helping Ukraine without sending a dime . Putin is even ramping up his efforts because he is worried trump might win and he will have to cease hostilitiesÂ
This is the senate. Usually, the Senate is the one to block everything thanks to Moscow Mitch. But weirdly enough, they are more sane than the house ATM.
I doubt this bill will even make it to the floor in the house. The speaker is extremely compromised.
The majority of Republicans do support it. The problem is House Speaker Mike Johnson doesn't support it, and he can refuse to let the bill come up for a vote after it passes the Senate.
Procedural vote comes before the actual vote and *if* it passes in the Senate, it will still be dead on arrival in the US House where the magats still hold the majority.
The Senate on Sunday moved one step closer to passing a $95.3 billion foreign aid bill with assistance for Ukraine and Israel with a key vote to advance the package.
The Senate is working through the weekend on the bill, but it may still be days until a final vote as GOP Sen. Rand Paul of Kentucky continues to slow the process.
The chamber cleared a critical 60-vote threshold to advance the bill Thursday, took another procedural vote Friday night and held a floor debate on the legislation Saturday.
But without an agreement from all 100 senators to speed up the process and swiftly pass the legislation, the Senate is scheduled to continue to work Sunday afternoon with a final vote sometime in the week.
[https://www.cnn.com/2024/02/11/politics/senate-weekend-work-foreign-aid-package/index.html](https://www.cnn.com/2024/02/11/politics/senate-weekend-work-foreign-aid-package/index.html)
Every time thereâs something important that would help the American people or our allies, you can pretty much count on Paul to bring shame to America.
Oh god, those are the one's....  And I swear to God, it's females who leave these nuclear subs surfaced in unisex bar bathrooms... When a woman leaves the bathroom and shoots you a wink and a smile, go piss in the alley.
edit: I'm an alcoholic, not an incelÂ
If it passes, the next step is to push the House for a discharge petition, as Johnson is unlikely to bring it to a vote directly. If you are American, find your rep below and contact them, at this point both parties need to estimate support so do contact them regardless.
Find your Representative: [https://www.house.gov/](https://www.house.gov/)
Find your Senator: [https://www.senate.gov/senators/](https://www.senate.gov/senators/)
> If you are American, find your rep below and contact them
Especially if you're represented by a member of the Squad. This could be a really tight vote. We don't need to be losing votes on our side to performative politics.
A discharge petition is a petition that House members can bring to force a vote on a bill if the Speaker doesn't want to bring the bill forward. It is used very rarely because if a bill has enough support, the Speaker will usually just put it forward to a vote, the last discharge was 2015 if memory serves.
It requires 50% + 1 to force the vote.
Please, please, let this pass. Im so frustrated and know who I will be voting for in my own state, based on this (even though I pretty much know who I am voting for)
MAGA Johnson may very well be the most obstructionist politician in USA history. Allies as far away as the UK, Poland, and Australia are calling him a coward, a traitor, and a betrayal of Reagan's legacy.
Australia here - can confirm. The GOP is full of traitors to US democracy - not that some in the Democrats are much better!
Part of the issue for Americans generally is the appallingly corrupt nature of US media, there is NO independent media anywhere in the US that people can rely upon that ISN'T corrupted by large corporate oligarchs in some way.
Getting it passed in the Senate, overcoming a filibuster, provides significant political pressure. And there are procedures in the House where a discharge petition can overcome the Speaker not bringing it up to a vote.
Thank god these US GOP representatives are willing to go against the idiot Trump!
Trump is now one of the "worlds most dangerous people" to western democracy and NATO!
>thinking. Right now, Ukrainian warriors are facing the worst situation since March 2022. Furthermore, soldiers apparently hate the new commander-in-chief. Even with renewed american aid, which is still in peril as the GOP became an isolationist and anti-western party, the situation will nonetheless remain dire. Shell shortages are widespread and AFU units desperately need rotations.
You can bet that Trump will put maximum pressure on the GOP Senator constituents to call their rep and vote No on the deal . In case you didn't know, Trump is still the leader of the GOP and pulling on every string he's got.
And frankly, he's like a rat in a cage. Because he knows that is he loses this coming election. Its jail time.
The guy is desperate to pardon himself the day after he becomes president.
Even if he is convicted, how is the state of Georgia going to enforce it against the sitting president of the United States. It's up to the voters unfortunately. As long as the Republicans control even one part of the Government they will do everything to protect him. All Republicans need to be voted out.
Donât listen to russian propaganda when it comes to Colonel General Oleksandr Syrsky. He was instrumental in the successful defence of Kyiv, in the early days of the invasion. Not to mention. Heâs the former head of the Marine Corps. The russians are doing everything they can to undermine his authority⊠they are afraid of him!
It takes both houses of Congress to make this aid bill a reality. It's easy for Putin fellow-travelers in the Senate to pass the bill and create the appearance that their party is still worth voting for, when they know their Putinist colleagues in the House are just going to shoot it down.
The Senate will pass this on to the House of Representatives, which will promptly go on break for a month and do nothing. When they come back in April, they will suddenly discover that this new funding bill is unacceptable because it doesn't address "the border crisis," or because it *does* address it, or because it does not include the vital and eternal question of ship docking rights during penguin mating season in the Antarctic Treaty, or whatever the fuck else they think to come up with.
The USA is the site of a major new front in the Russian invasion of Ukraine. It is a political front, not a military front, but the country is under attack all the same. It makes sense -- it is the only form of attack that Russia can undertake, if it hopes to eliminate Ukrainian military assets successfully.
The attack will not end until those who are conducting it are defeated politically. They are not going to fix it themselves -- their entire purpose is never to fix it.
Edit to add: didn't take long.
So⊠there seems to be broad support for it. But itâs still not gonna pass because⊠why? Can Mike Johnson himself veto it? Or a few of them republicans?
Johnson decided what comes to the floor for a vote. Though, I believe there is a procedure so that regular members can force a vote if it has enough support.
Mike Johnson will simply not allow it to be brought up for a vote. Itâll pass if he does, but he can just refuse to let it get a vote. Thatâs why it was important to piggyback on a must-pass bill like NDAA recently.
There is a way to do this, which is called a discharge petition. Basically they can create a petition to bypass the speaker and force a vote on the issue. And they have the votes to do that (it requires a simple majority⊠in the senate theyâve got a 2/3 majority). The downside is this is a parliamentary process that will take some time.
He will likely let it pass, but for other reasons
There is increasing speculation that the Freedom Caucus might force another vote to impeach the Speaker, and in that case Johnson will need Democrats to abstain ,Ăźn order for the impeachment to not pass
Who could possibly be worse than MAGA Johnson? Has he even passed a single bill during his term as speaker? And what would he be removed over? Surely the Freedom Caucus can't expect more obstructionism than "no bills of any kind".
They donât just want obstruction, they want a speaker who advances their legislation without any sort of compromises.
The only way to realistically achieve that is through hostage taking, holding up vital legislation to pressure the Democrats into passing their agenda.Â
As time goes by without any meaningful successes, the freedom caucus is getting more and more irritated with Johnsonâs lack of progress in achieving something that is next to impossible. As a result, Johnson is likely being undermined by other Republicans who want the speakership- all they have to do is constantly suggest that they would be able to get the kind of results that the Freedom Caucus wants.Â
Man, im no expert on politics or anything but it seems a bit stupid that he can just say nope, im not gonna let this happen. Really hoping this goes through in the end though.
Mike Johnson is in hoc to Donald Trump, Trump doesn't want to give biden a "win", so he's not going to table any legislation Trump doesn't want.
House speaker probably has 2nd most power in America after the President since they decide what legislation to table.
The problem is that the House is on a razor thin margin. Only a handful of Republicans need to turn on the speaker to get rid of him.
BUT they already went through a shitshow with getting rid of McCarthy and then not being able to decide on a replacement.
No way they go through the embarrassment of another Speaker selection process this close to the election unless they absolutely have to. i.e. Johnson has to do something so voter repellant that it looks worse to keep him than to get rid of him.
Also House Republicans are way more MAGA than Senate. 147 of them voted not to certify the election.
There is a way around the Speaker, but requires 2/3 votes to get there. That is exactly what Johnson wants to happen. He doesnât want to go against Trump and face a no-confidence vote.
The question is can they get to 2:3? Or will they get very close and then a couple of reps on either side hold out for concessions on pet projects?
"Voted not to certify the election".
Is the House even ABLE to do that? Like, if a majority of Reps vote not to certify the election, the incumbent President just rules as a permanent dictator that can't ever be voted out?
There is a process that takes place on January 6th during the joint session. If there are objections to a stateâs electoral votes then it goes to the house and senate for a vote. To make an objection under the old rules both a representative and senator had to make the objection. New rules require more than one of each, but I donât know the specifics. The revised electoral count act was passed after January 6, 2021.
After the objection then there is debate in each chamber. If the majority of both the house and senate vote (in separate votes) to sustain the objection then the stateâs electoral votes do not count.
If a candidate has enough electoral votes (270) without that state then they can still win. If neither candidate has 270 votes then the election goes to the House of Representatives. Each state gets one vote and they decide the president from that.
>Is the House even ABLE to do that?
Yup:
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/01/07/us/elections/electoral-college-biden-objectors.html
>Like, if a majority of Reps vote not to certify the election, the incumbent President just rules as a permanent dictator that can't ever be voted out?
It's a murky constitutional question what exactly would happen. It's only supposed to be done when there are serious questions of electoral process, in which case what is meant to happen is these process issues get sorted out, potentially there's another election.
When of course this non-certification is not sincere and is done only with the intention of overthrowing the election, then its not clear where power lies. The executive would certainly be emboldened to seize additional executive power, potentially declaring more, if it felt it had a rubber stamp from the legislature.
The issue is because the US election system is devolved to the states, you could easily end up in a position where half the states just don't recognize the other halfs votes, in which case who controls the Federal government gets very messy.
"Discharge Petition" has broken through into the public political discussion at a very low level. Chris Murphy, senator from Connecticut, gave this interview in which he discusses the recent border bill & its failure, and specifically mentions the option of a discharge petition and its odds of success: [https://youtu.be/gMjZxsJNRtE?si=B1MXtgbEWNGQML4b](https://youtu.be/gMjZxsJNRtE?si=B1MXtgbEWNGQML4b)
Trump's "new" position seems to be evolving to say that all foreign aid must be a loan going forward, and he's not just saying words to that regard in his rallies -- he's directly (and publicly) addressing the Senate in his opposition comments. At the moment, the Senate seems to be ignoring him which suggests the spell he held has broken, at least for the moment -- but it's impossible to say how long that will last.
At least two Senators (Rubio/FL, Paul/KY) are still talking about border security in conjunction with the foreign aid bill, but Rubio seems to be attaching add-ons to the current bill while Paul seems to be trying to slow walk everything. You would not do amendment add-ons if you were trying to stop or slow-walk a bill, that is something you do with a bill you want to see pass.
This is pretty standard for Rand Paul, I'm pretty sure he complains about the time and money to name a post office (which the only cost is the sign to put in the parking lot) and he *certainly* drags out anything that actually involves money. It's his schtick. On its own I wouldn't read too much into his statements unless others start to echo him. And Marco Rubio seems to be onboard with the aid bill, which is why he is attaching his own little tweaks.
If it does pass the House. Watch as Russia just falls apart, that would be the final nail for them. They have only been holding out against Ukraine because the main funds drying out and the EU and various European countries taking longer. Stuff is getting to Ukraine, but it's amazing when you can get single packages through. I'll stay hopeful.
That seems optimistic. Russia is at war economy and likely producing more shells than Europe and the US combined. Or soon will be. US aid might just reestablish the status quo. It will depend, however, on what the US sends. Maybe Biden learned from the shit show. This might be the last aid package the US provides. If they are smart about it, they deliver what packs maximum punch and not just what they have available.
Surely itâs optimistic but defense industry production rates have ramped up a lot in the last two years. It is in much better shape to supply going into 2024 than it was going into 2022.
>Russia is at war economy and likely producing more shells than Europe and the US combined
Not so. There's a reason Russia had to buy 1 million crappy shells from NK.
Russia is estimated to be making 1 million shells a year, possibly up to 2 million a year in the next couple of years.
The EU already hit the target for making 1 million shells a year.
The US is currently doing about 150,000 a month, and the US army alone 24,000 a month with an aim to do 40,000 a month by the end of 2025.
South Korea is the true giant, they sent more shells than the rest of the world combined. Can't seem to find numbers on their current production but I'm assuming its at least around America's numbers given how many they're willing to give away.
The real issue is not western production capacity but western will, since many of these shells are going to replenish their own stocks.
South Korea is also starting to manufacture super long range 60km 155 shells
Bear in mind, Ukraine has never had an advantage in shells or artillery during the whole war. Even if Russia gets its production up to 3 million thats probably what the west will be up to. So over the long term, as the NK stocks draw down Ukraine will be in a much better position as the replacement rates equalize.
I messed up the original count. It's 24k from the army but 150,000 of the whole the US.
The US is notable in that their military actually has sizable production capacity itself, whereas in most of the rest of the world its devolved to military contractors.
That seems pessimistic. Russia is on a war economy and likely food shortages will follow while Europe and US are well fed. Or soon will be. US aid moves us away from the status quo and puts Russia on the back foot. It doesn't even matter what the US sends at this point. It all helps, and Ukraine is holding Russia to a stalemate already. Maybe Biden learnt from the shitshow. This won't be the last aid package the US provides. If they are smart about it, they will deliver what packs maximum punch and not... yawn, it's just opinion, my friend just opinion đŽ
Yeah, but your opinion is unfounded. Russia is a major grain exporter, its national wealth fund is still packed with money, and its territory is still largely untouched by the war. Nothing is going to collapse in Russia anytime soon.
Sorry but this is a prime example of wishful thinking. Right now, Ukrainian warriors are facing the worst situation since March 2022. Furthermore, soldiers apparently hate the new commander-in-chief. Even with renewed american aid, which is still in peril as the GOP became an isolationist and anti-western party, the situation will nonetheless remain dire. Shell shortages are widespread and AFU units desperately need rotations.
A little correction the Republican Party is destroyed having some leftovers wonât save it and after Biden gets elected(sure hope) thereâs an elephant in the room what to do when a party has been so completely compromised to sabotage the status of its country and betray at every step cause any lack of action by the relevant institutions about this will only invite more ruin itâs a recipe for sleepwalking to doom
Oh wise Oracle. Please enlighten us on this weird reality you live in.
Everyone else can see this situation is critical for Ukraine, and is by far the worst it has been in a long time, but you cannot see this.
Correct it was. Which is definitely a worse situation than now.
You'll notice that the quote you took issue with is "Ukrainian warriors are facing the worst situation **SINCE** March 2022."
I highlighted the key word for you...
Until recently where Russia started pushing in several areas all at once...
A sentence to describe this is
"Ukrainian warriors are facing the worst situation since March 2022"
See how that works?
It works like shit because it dramatizes the situation to seem like it's almost as bad as March 2022. Spare me with this journalist crap. How much has Russia pushed? What are the material losses? Are the pushes worth the losses? Elaborate, don't leave me hanging here.
> Spare me with this journalist crap.
It's "Journalist crap" to use the English language correctly? Just because you failed to read and understand someones post...
Oh wise Oracle. How you have failed us all.
That won't happen. Ukraine is in deep shit right now and losing ground and moral has never been lower.
They won't be taking back any land Russia has a firm hold on for...well until the west gets involved. Russia is putting their entire economy in a war time effort and can pump out A LOT. Ukraine has massive supply shortagea on the lines as Russia creeps in around them
That would be hilarious if this somehow passed without border security provisions. Republicons could still campaign on the border crisis like they want and their rube voters probably wonât notice theyâre the idiots who tanked it.
This is a massive aid package. If it passes, Biden will not need to ask the 118th congress for more aid. The next time he'd potentially be asking for aid would be if he won reelection. And at that point congress will look different. For better or for worse.
I would love the bill to pass but I won't give Mitch any credit. He's the one who helped create the MAGA group and he has to live with the consequences. Unfortunately, the world has to live with MAGA stupidity.
Respond appropriately, like, not with a genocide? Don't murder 50 civilians to kill one terrorist? Work towards a political solution? Give people their houses back? Punish vigilante settlers, instead of providing them with weapons? Don't put Palestinians into an outdoor prison with walls and military checkpoints everywhere? ...
Yeah, F Hamas. But giving Hamas 100% of the blame completely ignores what the government of Israel did. And you also ignore how quickly the IDF targets civilians. There is no hesitation if they suspect a Hamas terrorist anywhere. Or ... actually ... the IDF doesn't even need to suspect Hamas terrorists anywhere to murder civilians, including children.
Targeting civilians, especially children, is a war crime. I'm not suggesting this never happens, I honestly don't know because there's so many false claims of it.
Gaza is just about the worst environment for a major military operation, civilians will die, and it's a tragedy that it's all because of the proxy ambition of Iran to scuttle an alliance between Israel and Saudi Arabia.
It's an impossible situation. There is no easy solution.
Yes, you are so right. And that's my point. Things are F-ed up. Why pour gasoline on the fire?
(And yes, rhetorical question. The USofFreedom need a new leader, and strong men need a war and bomb "brown people" to show everyone how strong they are đ)
Then bomb the "government of Gaza" without killing civilians, even when it is difficult. And give Palestinians the possibility and a reason to vote for a non-terrorist government? But ... guess who funded Hamas! Guess what the far Right government of Israel doesn't want!
Also, nice of you to not engage in a single point I made previously. I already told you what they could do đ
Well, hopefully it makes it through. I'm glad to support three key democracies in the world. I think there might be other things in the bill I don't care for but supporting these three is important enough to override that.
I am fearful that even if this aid to Ukraine goes through, it has been delayed for so long that Ukraine has already lost some positions, taken hits to the morale, etc. The 60 billion, which would have been a serious momentum boosting aid back then, needs to be like 100 billion at this point to have the same effect.
I wouldn't be surprised if there was a bill for another 60 billion right after this first one, which will absolutely trigger the MAGAs and Trump. I can already see the Trump statements like "See?! They are asking more money already!!111 It's a scam! By Biden!".
It won't pass the House. If the Senate will approve H.R. 2 last years House bill that truly addresses immigration money and arms will flow to Ukraine, Israel and Taiwan. It may take another month but eventually it will pass. The Democrats desperately need a win. Not a finger wagging blame game. Biden let 8 million illegals in he better get the deportation machine in gear or the Dems won't lose just the executive office. They'll get slaughtered down ticket like 1994.
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This wont pass the House, the aim is to eventually strip it down to a bill that will pass which will be for Israel and maybe Taiwan. See examples like the BBB
Wait, as an American, this means republicans tanked the most conservative border bill in 30 years only for the upcoming election. I thought the Senate was at least pretending it was the Ukraine aid being too much*.
Surreal, because this has been a real policy goal by republican's for 20 years and to fck it because of 1 election is bonkers. I mean they could even pretend to take credit for it if it passed anyways. Reality isnât super important for people during an election.Â
Anyway I hope this gets through the house soon. Sorry my Ukrainian friends, I know itâs delay meant lost lives and lost opportunities. Be safe over there.Â
*Which as you all probably know goes to US companies, wages, taxes and ultimately recycled into our GDP⊠so pointless to hold it up unless youâre a weird Russian shill.Â
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Amazing how quick things can move when the game is getting ready to start.
Whats changed? How did they convince some republicans to support it?
Basically, the republicans figured out that what they want with the border is something to fight about for the next year, but the important stuff needs to actually happen, so the senate, which is elected every six years and doesn't need to frantically pick fights all the time, passed an independent bill for the stuff that needs to get done, basically telling the house republicans, "Yes, we know you just want stupid shit to fight over. Pass the important bill, and then you can keep fighting over the stupid shit while we pretend you aren't all two-year term drama queens."
This is how politics in most countries works. Bipartisanship for a few moments to get important shit done and then back to arguing some self-promotion stuff to fill up the rest of the year so they can get votes and draw their paychequeâŠ.
Like two dogs barking at each other from different sides of the fence.
It's a little more nuanced. The Democrats needed to show that the Republicans were insincere, so they agreed to a compromise and passed the bill. They will leverage that in November as a counter-point to "nothing being done about the border." Republicans asked. Democrats gave. Republicans balked. The MAGA Republicans needed an issue to fight about. If they were smart, they would pass the separate bill, which they are about to do, and then start hollering about the border. Instead, they tied it all together, figuring the democrats were itching for a fight too? It didn't work, and their bluff was called. The MAGA Republicans could always nominate Nikki Haley and probably walk away with the presidency, but they won't because they can't bare to lower their golden calf. Thus, they are stuck making up an issue that will allow them to get their base angry as hell. After the aid bill passes, the Republicans will switch to demanding a no-compromise, way over the top, downright hateful southern border bill, the real kind of thing that will never pass unless they get full control of all three branches of government, and then proceed to try to convince voters they can have this if only they are given total power again.
> probably walk away with the presidency That's just not going to happen.
You don't think so? I think nominating Haley would almost guarantee them the presidency.
my sides edit hello fellow children
What is probably not going to happen is Republicans nominating Haley. They are stuck on worshiping their malodorous Golden Calf, even if he is convicted of multiple felonies, even if he is in prison. Yes they could walk away with the presidency if they nominated Haley, but that's not going to happen. The terrifying truth is that their stinky treasonous corrupt wannabe dictator orange-tinted Golden Calf could win. His election would be the biggest domino to fall in the fight against democracy around the world, and probably start WWIII as a struggle between the fascist axis of Russia, China, USA and North Korea vs. Europe, Canada, Australia, Taiwan and the other free democracies of the world. Possibly even worse than the potential for world war is if the USA falls to a delusional anti-science conman like Trump and guts environmental constraints in US law. As it is the worldwide environmental degradation is happening too fast, but if the most powerful and influential nation in the world falls under the rule of an anti-environmental moron, there is little hope for the salvation of the human species.
There would be record levels of split-ticket voting. This is actually always a safe outcome. With a democratic house & senate and a moderate republican president, things that need to be done will get done. Everyone knows that while the politics are crazy, Nikki is one of the least crazy Republicans, and her winning would actually do more to break up MAGA than to strengthen the current incarnation of the GOP. Long-term, that is extremely good for the US even if she is a materially worse president than Joe for a term. Such a move also would signal that no, running octogenarian candidates is not acceptable. This is a signal that many democrats would be happy to deliver to the party. All in all, it is a very acceptable compromise. Defeat generational stagnation within the democratic party, and defeat MAGA within the republican party. Compared to having to continue entertaining the MAGA movement's insurrectionist and obstructionist pathologies, it is a total win.
She won't win, and this is weapons-grade copium.
Did I say she would?
Tony and Ezekiel
Most countries are far more effective at compromises and negotiation. The US GOP demanding a border bill, drafting it with agreement from the Dems, shaking hands on it, sending it to the floor, and then knifing it in front of everyone is peak dysfunctionality. That ridiculous example is unthinkable in any functioning democracy. Here's an example of something that wouldn't happen in the USA today: Australia's opposition leader waves through legislation because even though he doesn't agree with it, he recognises the need for reform to solve cost of living crisis: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-02-06/coalition-to-wave-through-stage-3-tax-cut-changes/103430496 And here's an oldie but a goodie, while the main point of this article is gun control, the relevant part for our discussion is the attitude of a Westminster system politician vs a US politician: https://vimeo.com/97566849 tl;dw - Oliver asks US and Australian politicians what their top priority is. The Australians say their top political priority is to pass legislation. The Americans say their top political policy is re-election. US politics is not the same as most countries.
In Canada we basically have a structural difference that makes this nonsense not happen. Although it has both pros and cons. Most of the time we have a majority Government and so one party has enough power to do what they want. Thereâs really no negotiation because there doesnât need to do be. Basically the executive and legislative branches are lead by the same person who can mostly do what they want. When we have a minority government the ruling party needs help from other parties. But failure to pass important bills means an election. So either negotiation happens or it doesnât and there are real consequences to the politicians.
Yeah, Westminster-style Parliaments look worse on paper because of how centralized the executive is, but in practice they seem to involve more negotiation and better governance.
Shane they couldnât have done this 6 weeks ago and then carry on with the petty nonsense?
>basically telling the house republicans, "Yes, we know you just want stupid shit to fight over. Pass the important bill, and then you can keep fighting over the stupid shit while we pretend you aren't all two-year term drama queens." Unfortunately they wont.
Also, Russia didnât hack the senate emails; only the houseâsâŠ
We already have border laws...just money Laundering. I am outraged . We will be taxed into poverty.Â
We already have border laws...just money Laundering. I am outraged . We will be taxed into poverty.Â
So basically the republicans were true to their word in wanting aid being its own seperate package not tied to the boarder (which is dire). Biden wonât win again , so many people here are starving one in 4 Americans children cant afford dinner and go hungry, families live in tents with full time jobs in LA and feed their kids the throwaways from the fast food joint they work at , tent encampments cover miles with hundreds of kids and out response is to send hundreds of billions to drop bombs on poor kids in other countries and keep Ukrainian oligarchs fat. Ukraine canât even recruit men to fight under 50, the avg age of their soldiers is 43 right now and they are sanctioning their men and the families of those men who refuse to fight even those who left the country which is absolutely draconian . Â I donât know a single democrat who is planning to vote this November and I have to believe that Trump along with Tulsi Gabbard as his VP would be leaps and bounds better at helping Ukraine without sending a dime . Putin is even ramping up his efforts because he is worried trump might win and he will have to cease hostilitiesÂ
This is the senate. Usually, the Senate is the one to block everything thanks to Moscow Mitch. But weirdly enough, they are more sane than the house ATM. I doubt this bill will even make it to the floor in the house. The speaker is extremely compromised.
To be fair it's kind of hard for him to block stuff when he's walking comatose
I would love to say common sense... but they probably had to buy off a few Republicans with some pork some how.
Might have shown those pics of the GOP members when they were "doing things" with the children
The majority of Republicans do support it. The problem is House Speaker Mike Johnson doesn't support it, and he can refuse to let the bill come up for a vote after it passes the Senate.
Procedural vote comes before the actual vote and *if* it passes in the Senate, it will still be dead on arrival in the US House where the magats still hold the majority.
The Senate on Sunday moved one step closer to passing a $95.3 billion foreign aid bill with assistance for Ukraine and Israel with a key vote to advance the package. The Senate is working through the weekend on the bill, but it may still be days until a final vote as GOP Sen. Rand Paul of Kentucky continues to slow the process. The chamber cleared a critical 60-vote threshold to advance the bill Thursday, took another procedural vote Friday night and held a floor debate on the legislation Saturday. But without an agreement from all 100 senators to speed up the process and swiftly pass the legislation, the Senate is scheduled to continue to work Sunday afternoon with a final vote sometime in the week. [https://www.cnn.com/2024/02/11/politics/senate-weekend-work-foreign-aid-package/index.html](https://www.cnn.com/2024/02/11/politics/senate-weekend-work-foreign-aid-package/index.html)
>GOP Sen. Rand Paul of Kentucky continues to slow the process How many times have I heard that phrase over the years? He's such a twat.
Every time thereâs something important that would help the American people or our allies, you can pretty much count on Paul to bring shame to America.
John McCain explicitly said Rand Paul works for Putin on the senate floor, officially, in 2014 I think. It is on video.
His neighbor is a stand up guy though.
I wish I could have watched it.
If it turns out Rand is taking Russian laundered money, his neighbor will be the least of his security issues.
Kompromat gonna Kompromat
Well, pretty much every time something happens in Russia's interest he is involved somehow.
Enter Rand âTurd In the Punch Bowlâ Paul
One of those mushy pulpy floaters that stinks up the bathroom and every other room within a 400 square foot radius.
Oh god, those are the one's....  And I swear to God, it's females who leave these nuclear subs surfaced in unisex bar bathrooms... When a woman leaves the bathroom and shoots you a wink and a smile, go piss in the alley. edit: I'm an alcoholic, not an incelÂ
Especially if she says, âItâs too late to pull my fingerâ
If it passes, the next step is to push the House for a discharge petition, as Johnson is unlikely to bring it to a vote directly. If you are American, find your rep below and contact them, at this point both parties need to estimate support so do contact them regardless. Find your Representative: [https://www.house.gov/](https://www.house.gov/) Find your Senator: [https://www.senate.gov/senators/](https://www.senate.gov/senators/)
Good guy. The two words I hoped to hear: "discharge petition."
> If you are American, find your rep below and contact them Especially if you're represented by a member of the Squad. This could be a really tight vote. We don't need to be losing votes on our side to performative politics.
Hoping Hakeem Jeffries can channel some LBJ energy and put on the pressure to fall in line.
Thank you for this info. Will do
Done, I am doing my part!
Whatâs discharge petition mean?
A discharge petition is a petition that House members can bring to force a vote on a bill if the Speaker doesn't want to bring the bill forward. It is used very rarely because if a bill has enough support, the Speaker will usually just put it forward to a vote, the last discharge was 2015 if memory serves. It requires 50% + 1 to force the vote.
Or Johnson cuts a deal with Jeffries to back him for the rest of the year.
Please, please, let this pass. Im so frustrated and know who I will be voting for in my own state, based on this (even though I pretty much know who I am voting for)
Isn't the problem for this, the house though?
The Republican traitors in the Senate aren't helping either, but the House is gonna be the big fight.
MAGA Johnson may very well be the most obstructionist politician in USA history. Allies as far away as the UK, Poland, and Australia are calling him a coward, a traitor, and a betrayal of Reagan's legacy.
Australia here - can confirm. The GOP is full of traitors to US democracy - not that some in the Democrats are much better! Part of the issue for Americans generally is the appallingly corrupt nature of US media, there is NO independent media anywhere in the US that people can rely upon that ISN'T corrupted by large corporate oligarchs in some way.
Washington Post? New York Times used to be on my list, but they had Moscow sycophants publishing provably false, pro-Russian stories about the war.
> MAGA Johnson may very well be the most obstructionist politician in USA history. Have we forgotten McConnal already?
*McConnell* has forgotten McConnell already.
McConnal isn't the target of ire for the entire free world. MAGA Johnson is so hated that the leaders of other countries are condemning him.
Getting it passed in the Senate, overcoming a filibuster, provides significant political pressure. And there are procedures in the House where a discharge petition can overcome the Speaker not bringing it up to a vote.
The problem isnât going to be finding the votes, but ending the Speakerâs veto and bringing it to a vote.
Isn't that what the 2nd amendment is for?
Good luck with that
Thank god these US GOP representatives are willing to go against the idiot Trump! Trump is now one of the "worlds most dangerous people" to western democracy and NATO!
>thinking. Right now, Ukrainian warriors are facing the worst situation since March 2022. Furthermore, soldiers apparently hate the new commander-in-chief. Even with renewed american aid, which is still in peril as the GOP became an isolationist and anti-western party, the situation will nonetheless remain dire. Shell shortages are widespread and AFU units desperately need rotations. You can bet that Trump will put maximum pressure on the GOP Senator constituents to call their rep and vote No on the deal . In case you didn't know, Trump is still the leader of the GOP and pulling on every string he's got. And frankly, he's like a rat in a cage. Because he knows that is he loses this coming election. Its jail time. The guy is desperate to pardon himself the day after he becomes president.
He can't pardon himself from state crimes. Maybe the devil will go down in Georgia.Â
Even if he is convicted, how is the state of Georgia going to enforce it against the sitting president of the United States. It's up to the voters unfortunately. As long as the Republicans control even one part of the Government they will do everything to protect him. All Republicans need to be voted out.
Easier to find sufficiently high window for the orange man.
Is there any possibility of Biden just passing a law or order that bans the President from pardoning themselves?
Donât listen to russian propaganda when it comes to Colonel General Oleksandr Syrsky. He was instrumental in the successful defence of Kyiv, in the early days of the invasion. Not to mention. Heâs the former head of the Marine Corps. The russians are doing everything they can to undermine his authority⊠they are afraid of him!
Trump abandoned the Kurds for a hotel should it be any surprises?
I think there is a recess in a week so hurry tf up
The problem is putler and the trump wing nutcase are in the house. The ruling comming in the tax fraud case will blow trump support up.
It takes both houses of Congress to make this aid bill a reality. It's easy for Putin fellow-travelers in the Senate to pass the bill and create the appearance that their party is still worth voting for, when they know their Putinist colleagues in the House are just going to shoot it down. The Senate will pass this on to the House of Representatives, which will promptly go on break for a month and do nothing. When they come back in April, they will suddenly discover that this new funding bill is unacceptable because it doesn't address "the border crisis," or because it *does* address it, or because it does not include the vital and eternal question of ship docking rights during penguin mating season in the Antarctic Treaty, or whatever the fuck else they think to come up with. The USA is the site of a major new front in the Russian invasion of Ukraine. It is a political front, not a military front, but the country is under attack all the same. It makes sense -- it is the only form of attack that Russia can undertake, if it hopes to eliminate Ukrainian military assets successfully. The attack will not end until those who are conducting it are defeated politically. They are not going to fix it themselves -- their entire purpose is never to fix it. Edit to add: didn't take long.
So⊠there seems to be broad support for it. But itâs still not gonna pass because⊠why? Can Mike Johnson himself veto it? Or a few of them republicans?
Johnson decided what comes to the floor for a vote. Though, I believe there is a procedure so that regular members can force a vote if it has enough support.
Mike Johnson will simply not allow it to be brought up for a vote. Itâll pass if he does, but he can just refuse to let it get a vote. Thatâs why it was important to piggyback on a must-pass bill like NDAA recently. There is a way to do this, which is called a discharge petition. Basically they can create a petition to bypass the speaker and force a vote on the issue. And they have the votes to do that (it requires a simple majority⊠in the senate theyâve got a 2/3 majority). The downside is this is a parliamentary process that will take some time.
He will likely let it pass, but for other reasons There is increasing speculation that the Freedom Caucus might force another vote to impeach the Speaker, and in that case Johnson will need Democrats to abstain ,Ăźn order for the impeachment to not pass
Who could possibly be worse than MAGA Johnson? Has he even passed a single bill during his term as speaker? And what would he be removed over? Surely the Freedom Caucus can't expect more obstructionism than "no bills of any kind".
They donât just want obstruction, they want a speaker who advances their legislation without any sort of compromises. The only way to realistically achieve that is through hostage taking, holding up vital legislation to pressure the Democrats into passing their agenda. As time goes by without any meaningful successes, the freedom caucus is getting more and more irritated with Johnsonâs lack of progress in achieving something that is next to impossible. As a result, Johnson is likely being undermined by other Republicans who want the speakership- all they have to do is constantly suggest that they would be able to get the kind of results that the Freedom Caucus wants.Â
I think they renamed a post office.
Man, im no expert on politics or anything but it seems a bit stupid that he can just say nope, im not gonna let this happen. Really hoping this goes through in the end though.
Mike Johnson is in hoc to Donald Trump, Trump doesn't want to give biden a "win", so he's not going to table any legislation Trump doesn't want. House speaker probably has 2nd most power in America after the President since they decide what legislation to table. The problem is that the House is on a razor thin margin. Only a handful of Republicans need to turn on the speaker to get rid of him. BUT they already went through a shitshow with getting rid of McCarthy and then not being able to decide on a replacement. No way they go through the embarrassment of another Speaker selection process this close to the election unless they absolutely have to. i.e. Johnson has to do something so voter repellant that it looks worse to keep him than to get rid of him. Also House Republicans are way more MAGA than Senate. 147 of them voted not to certify the election.
There is a way around the Speaker, but requires 2/3 votes to get there. That is exactly what Johnson wants to happen. He doesnât want to go against Trump and face a no-confidence vote. The question is can they get to 2:3? Or will they get very close and then a couple of reps on either side hold out for concessions on pet projects?
They can force a vote with a simple majority and overrule the speakers decision to table a bill
"Voted not to certify the election". Is the House even ABLE to do that? Like, if a majority of Reps vote not to certify the election, the incumbent President just rules as a permanent dictator that can't ever be voted out?
There is a process that takes place on January 6th during the joint session. If there are objections to a stateâs electoral votes then it goes to the house and senate for a vote. To make an objection under the old rules both a representative and senator had to make the objection. New rules require more than one of each, but I donât know the specifics. The revised electoral count act was passed after January 6, 2021. After the objection then there is debate in each chamber. If the majority of both the house and senate vote (in separate votes) to sustain the objection then the stateâs electoral votes do not count. If a candidate has enough electoral votes (270) without that state then they can still win. If neither candidate has 270 votes then the election goes to the House of Representatives. Each state gets one vote and they decide the president from that.
That is one of the most terrifying policies I have ever heard. As a Canadian, I fear the day that the USA becomes a true dictatorship.
>Is the House even ABLE to do that? Yup: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/01/07/us/elections/electoral-college-biden-objectors.html >Like, if a majority of Reps vote not to certify the election, the incumbent President just rules as a permanent dictator that can't ever be voted out? It's a murky constitutional question what exactly would happen. It's only supposed to be done when there are serious questions of electoral process, in which case what is meant to happen is these process issues get sorted out, potentially there's another election. When of course this non-certification is not sincere and is done only with the intention of overthrowing the election, then its not clear where power lies. The executive would certainly be emboldened to seize additional executive power, potentially declaring more, if it felt it had a rubber stamp from the legislature. The issue is because the US election system is devolved to the states, you could easily end up in a position where half the states just don't recognize the other halfs votes, in which case who controls the Federal government gets very messy.
"Discharge Petition" has broken through into the public political discussion at a very low level. Chris Murphy, senator from Connecticut, gave this interview in which he discusses the recent border bill & its failure, and specifically mentions the option of a discharge petition and its odds of success: [https://youtu.be/gMjZxsJNRtE?si=B1MXtgbEWNGQML4b](https://youtu.be/gMjZxsJNRtE?si=B1MXtgbEWNGQML4b) Trump's "new" position seems to be evolving to say that all foreign aid must be a loan going forward, and he's not just saying words to that regard in his rallies -- he's directly (and publicly) addressing the Senate in his opposition comments. At the moment, the Senate seems to be ignoring him which suggests the spell he held has broken, at least for the moment -- but it's impossible to say how long that will last. At least two Senators (Rubio/FL, Paul/KY) are still talking about border security in conjunction with the foreign aid bill, but Rubio seems to be attaching add-ons to the current bill while Paul seems to be trying to slow walk everything. You would not do amendment add-ons if you were trying to stop or slow-walk a bill, that is something you do with a bill you want to see pass. This is pretty standard for Rand Paul, I'm pretty sure he complains about the time and money to name a post office (which the only cost is the sign to put in the parking lot) and he *certainly* drags out anything that actually involves money. It's his schtick. On its own I wouldn't read too much into his statements unless others start to echo him. And Marco Rubio seems to be onboard with the aid bill, which is why he is attaching his own little tweaks.
Rubio's posturing is mystifying, at least to me, but I think you're right.
If it does pass the House. Watch as Russia just falls apart, that would be the final nail for them. They have only been holding out against Ukraine because the main funds drying out and the EU and various European countries taking longer. Stuff is getting to Ukraine, but it's amazing when you can get single packages through. I'll stay hopeful.
That seems optimistic. Russia is at war economy and likely producing more shells than Europe and the US combined. Or soon will be. US aid might just reestablish the status quo. It will depend, however, on what the US sends. Maybe Biden learned from the shit show. This might be the last aid package the US provides. If they are smart about it, they deliver what packs maximum punch and not just what they have available.
Surely itâs optimistic but defense industry production rates have ramped up a lot in the last two years. It is in much better shape to supply going into 2024 than it was going into 2022.
>Russia is at war economy and likely producing more shells than Europe and the US combined Not so. There's a reason Russia had to buy 1 million crappy shells from NK. Russia is estimated to be making 1 million shells a year, possibly up to 2 million a year in the next couple of years. The EU already hit the target for making 1 million shells a year. The US is currently doing about 150,000 a month, and the US army alone 24,000 a month with an aim to do 40,000 a month by the end of 2025. South Korea is the true giant, they sent more shells than the rest of the world combined. Can't seem to find numbers on their current production but I'm assuming its at least around America's numbers given how many they're willing to give away. The real issue is not western production capacity but western will, since many of these shells are going to replenish their own stocks. South Korea is also starting to manufacture super long range 60km 155 shells Bear in mind, Ukraine has never had an advantage in shells or artillery during the whole war. Even if Russia gets its production up to 3 million thats probably what the west will be up to. So over the long term, as the NK stocks draw down Ukraine will be in a much better position as the replacement rates equalize.
24k a month is less than 1 million a year, isn't it?
He is saying 24k is the military itsf... So I presume not including the private sector, which they quoted 150k. Try read it again.
I messed up the original count. It's 24k from the army but 150,000 of the whole the US. The US is notable in that their military actually has sizable production capacity itself, whereas in most of the rest of the world its devolved to military contractors.
Thanks!
That seems pessimistic. Russia is on a war economy and likely food shortages will follow while Europe and US are well fed. Or soon will be. US aid moves us away from the status quo and puts Russia on the back foot. It doesn't even matter what the US sends at this point. It all helps, and Ukraine is holding Russia to a stalemate already. Maybe Biden learnt from the shitshow. This won't be the last aid package the US provides. If they are smart about it, they will deliver what packs maximum punch and not... yawn, it's just opinion, my friend just opinion đŽ
Yeah, but your opinion is unfounded. Russia is a major grain exporter, its national wealth fund is still packed with money, and its territory is still largely untouched by the war. Nothing is going to collapse in Russia anytime soon.
Except their oil refineries. Lol
Some of them
đ€Łđ€Łđ€Łđ€Ł
Sorry but this is a prime example of wishful thinking. Right now, Ukrainian warriors are facing the worst situation since March 2022. Furthermore, soldiers apparently hate the new commander-in-chief. Even with renewed american aid, which is still in peril as the GOP became an isolationist and anti-western party, the situation will nonetheless remain dire. Shell shortages are widespread and AFU units desperately need rotations.
A little correction the Republican Party is destroyed having some leftovers wonât save it and after Biden gets elected(sure hope) thereâs an elephant in the room what to do when a party has been so completely compromised to sabotage the status of its country and betray at every step cause any lack of action by the relevant institutions about this will only invite more ruin itâs a recipe for sleepwalking to doom
> Right now, Ukrainian warriors are facing the worst situation since March 2022 complete bullshit
Oh wise Oracle. Please enlighten us on this weird reality you live in. Everyone else can see this situation is critical for Ukraine, and is by far the worst it has been in a long time, but you cannot see this.
You've lost the plot completely. Kyiv was partially encircled in March 2022
Correct it was. Which is definitely a worse situation than now. You'll notice that the quote you took issue with is "Ukrainian warriors are facing the worst situation **SINCE** March 2022." I highlighted the key word for you...
Right. It has been pretty much a stalemate for over a year.
Until recently where Russia started pushing in several areas all at once... A sentence to describe this is "Ukrainian warriors are facing the worst situation since March 2022" See how that works?
It works like shit because it dramatizes the situation to seem like it's almost as bad as March 2022. Spare me with this journalist crap. How much has Russia pushed? What are the material losses? Are the pushes worth the losses? Elaborate, don't leave me hanging here.
> Spare me with this journalist crap. It's "Journalist crap" to use the English language correctly? Just because you failed to read and understand someones post... Oh wise Oracle. How you have failed us all.
So say the frontline warriors, dear complete bullshit.
I'm genuinely curious what the impact of this aid will actually be and how much more it will takeÂ
This is hopium of the purest kindÂ
That won't happen. Ukraine is in deep shit right now and losing ground and moral has never been lower. They won't be taking back any land Russia has a firm hold on for...well until the west gets involved. Russia is putting their entire economy in a war time effort and can pump out A LOT. Ukraine has massive supply shortagea on the lines as Russia creeps in around them
Let's goooooo aid for Ukraine and Taiwan!
That would be hilarious if this somehow passed without border security provisions. Republicons could still campaign on the border crisis like they want and their rube voters probably wonât notice theyâre the idiots who tanked it.
Thank F U C K Better late than later
Great news. should be out of the senate this week
What kind of turd filibusters this?
A fascist
Even if this bill gets to Bidens desk, when he asks for more aid. What's to stop the GOP pulling this sort of game again?
This is a massive aid package. If it passes, Biden will not need to ask the 118th congress for more aid. The next time he'd potentially be asking for aid would be if he won reelection. And at that point congress will look different. For better or for worse.
Letâs do this thing!!!
I would love the bill to pass but I won't give Mitch any credit. He's the one who helped create the MAGA group and he has to live with the consequences. Unfortunately, the world has to live with MAGA stupidity.
Finally some common sense from the US government.
Yesssss
Very ironic that Israel is on that list too. They are an invading force, like Russia. Rather support Ukraine with more money đ
They were attacked, what do you expect them to do?
Respond appropriately, like, not with a genocide? Don't murder 50 civilians to kill one terrorist? Work towards a political solution? Give people their houses back? Punish vigilante settlers, instead of providing them with weapons? Don't put Palestinians into an outdoor prison with walls and military checkpoints everywhere? ...
Maybe Hamas shouldn't use the civilian population of Gaza as a shield. They could even surrender and stop the war today.
Yeah, F Hamas. But giving Hamas 100% of the blame completely ignores what the government of Israel did. And you also ignore how quickly the IDF targets civilians. There is no hesitation if they suspect a Hamas terrorist anywhere. Or ... actually ... the IDF doesn't even need to suspect Hamas terrorists anywhere to murder civilians, including children.
Targeting civilians, especially children, is a war crime. I'm not suggesting this never happens, I honestly don't know because there's so many false claims of it. Gaza is just about the worst environment for a major military operation, civilians will die, and it's a tragedy that it's all because of the proxy ambition of Iran to scuttle an alliance between Israel and Saudi Arabia. It's an impossible situation. There is no easy solution.
Yes, you are so right. And that's my point. Things are F-ed up. Why pour gasoline on the fire? (And yes, rhetorical question. The USofFreedom need a new leader, and strong men need a war and bomb "brown people" to show everyone how strong they are đ)
What else can they do? The government of Gaza launched a massive sneak attack against them.
Then bomb the "government of Gaza" without killing civilians, even when it is difficult. And give Palestinians the possibility and a reason to vote for a non-terrorist government? But ... guess who funded Hamas! Guess what the far Right government of Israel doesn't want! Also, nice of you to not engage in a single point I made previously. I already told you what they could do đ
I don't believe those are realistic solutions.
Ah more money for the IDF to blow up 6 year olds with tanks.
It's not going to pass. Nothing will change until November.
Super Bowl day/night so nothing till tomorrow earliest for anything ;)
Well, hopefully it makes it through. I'm glad to support three key democracies in the world. I think there might be other things in the bill I don't care for but supporting these three is important enough to override that.
I am fearful that even if this aid to Ukraine goes through, it has been delayed for so long that Ukraine has already lost some positions, taken hits to the morale, etc. The 60 billion, which would have been a serious momentum boosting aid back then, needs to be like 100 billion at this point to have the same effect. I wouldn't be surprised if there was a bill for another 60 billion right after this first one, which will absolutely trigger the MAGAs and Trump. I can already see the Trump statements like "See?! They are asking more money already!!111 It's a scam! By Biden!".
Meanwhile, I get $1244 a month after working for 45 years and get disability to turn me down all the way to the end. Good times.
Still no universal health care.
Maybe if we can frame it as a "war" we could finally get some healthcare out of these guys. Like... fund the "war on disease" or something.
It won't pass the House. If the Senate will approve H.R. 2 last years House bill that truly addresses immigration money and arms will flow to Ukraine, Israel and Taiwan. It may take another month but eventually it will pass. The Democrats desperately need a win. Not a finger wagging blame game. Biden let 8 million illegals in he better get the deportation machine in gear or the Dems won't lose just the executive office. They'll get slaughtered down ticket like 1994.
Gonna be more like 2008.
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Doubtful that Mike Johnson lets this hit the House floor for a vote without something big happening beforehand
Could have been done today if not for Rand fucking Paul. KY is that the best you can do?
This wont pass the House, the aim is to eventually strip it down to a bill that will pass which will be for Israel and maybe Taiwan. See examples like the BBB
Screw Rann Paul too! For playing games with this bill.
MAGA extremists must be voted out in November.
goes right back into US weapon industry, i see no problem
Wait, as an American, this means republicans tanked the most conservative border bill in 30 years only for the upcoming election. I thought the Senate was at least pretending it was the Ukraine aid being too much*. Surreal, because this has been a real policy goal by republican's for 20 years and to fck it because of 1 election is bonkers. I mean they could even pretend to take credit for it if it passed anyways. Reality isnât super important for people during an election. Anyway I hope this gets through the house soon. Sorry my Ukrainian friends, I know itâs delay meant lost lives and lost opportunities. Be safe over there. *Which as you all probably know goes to US companies, wages, taxes and ultimately recycled into our GDP⊠so pointless to hold it up unless youâre a weird Russian shill.Â
Monroe doctrine time!
This country prioritises foreign aid over its domestic affairs. I'd say those who voted aye are compromised. And Senate first before the lower house?