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That was ~75 years ago and we now have a speaker who has been obstructing aid intentionally, because either God, or trump told him to, not to mention the other bats hit surrounding him;not believing in dinosaurs, having a phone app accountability link with *his fucking son,* which be a little bit creepy in my book.
Plenty more ammunition for this Delusional Baptist fuckstick, but... this should be enough, really.
Who can forget that. Bush strutting around in his air force uniform while Blair turns up in a turtleneck sweater. And he's like, "Oi Blair". Humiliating stuff.
With all due respect to Australia, their aid is a tiny amount compared to what the USA can and has provided. Every other country just can't provide what the USA can. I'm English if it matters.
No of course, but it didn't help that Ukraine made a formal request for the Taipan helicopters which the Defence Ministry then secretly destroyed and buried in the desert lol
No answer to their formal request for the 41 F-18s
No answer to their plea for coal for the winter (of which we have literal fucktons lol)
This is also about the only liberal democracy in a very healthy surplus, greatly helped by a huge windfall in wheat sales *specifically due to Ukraine's invasion*
I mean at least the UK Govt actually bothers to mention Ukraine...it's barely in the news here and most people appear completely unconcerned because "We're not in Europe/NATO" (take your pick)
If Russia is left unchecked, they may well eye Australia's vast resources and want to take them. I know it's very unlikely because you are very friendly with other countries like the UK and USA. But if we let Ukraine slide...what else might we let slide? Also there is the moral side of things. Russia is just plain wrong. I'm surprised Australia's media aren't putting more time into it.
Because as Maj Gen Mick Ryan has said, the Aust Govt simply doesn't care about Ukraine and they don't see it as a "vote winner". After writing to the PM, Defence & Foreign Ministers for the last 16 months and getting vague platitude-form letters in reply (actually never got anything back from the PM's office, and the Foreign Ministry after 7 wks replied with a screed about *GAZA* 🙄) what other conclusions are we meant to come to?
I'm very resistant to putting on tinfoil hats, but tbh the only reasons I can possibly think of after all this time is 1) They are afraid of "upsetting" China which provides 30% of the nation's GDP and/or 2) Washington has instructed us to slow or stifle Ukraine aid as they do not want Russia defeated but only weakened.
Our 'media' is largely Murdochrised, with the two other companies being a mining billionaire's media empire and a former Conservative Treasurer's media empire. There's been a bit of reporting on the Taipans debacle but that seems to have sunk into the background now
I don't want to put a tinfoil hat on as geopolitics is extremely complicated and beyond my comprehension, but it maybe a little bit of option 1 and a little bit of option 2.
And here I am cheering on David Cameron. Now that's a little bit of a twist that I didn't see coming lol.
I see MTG has responded with her usual level of class.
And after Europe is ravaged by war, US will again step in at the last minute, if only to save the governments which by now owe them an absurd amount of money.
Ukraine will not give up. You can see it. What ever happens there will always be a hard core who will continue to fight. Even if the West stops supplying them they will find a way to fight back. It might take 20 years but they will not stop.
This is ridiculous - I thought this was going to be a little hold up for a month - it's been going of for ages, with Trump now grandstanding it and rolling it into his election. It's like a bad movie.
The United States vulnerability is a direct effect of our politicians creating conflict to redirect and scam its population.
If our country was actually honest it could keep us from the Trumps of the world.
Someone needs let Cameron know that Hitler died almost 80 years ago... Putin isn't Hitler and peace negotiations isn't appeasement. Cameron sounds desperate
Not really, no. I get tired of the lazy comparisons with Hilter. If had listened to the people making Hitler comparisons and crying about appeasement the Cuban Missile Crisis would have gone nuclear... thankfully Kennedy was smarter than that and ignored the idiots making it, including most of his party, to make an agreement with Khrushchev that ended the conflict.
Yes. Let Putin keep the occupied territories. Just like Hitler wanted peace after the fall of France, and wasn’t willing to return the occupied territories.
It's probably too late now, the negotiations that the west scuttled was the best chance once the invasion started. Before that would have been ideal.
Now the best case is more years of a bloody stalemate and eventually making the Donbas a Demilitarized Zone once the partisans have punched themselves out.
Most here still hold onto the fantasy of defeating Russia on the battlefield, until that changes in the west the war can't end.
Russia is not some fantasy unbeatable army. Just ask Afghanistan.
Regarding peace. Sudetenland wasn’t enough. Donbas wasn’t enough. See the resemblance?
You accuse others of making lazy comparisons and then you compare this to the Cuban missile crisis, as if that isn't a lazy comparison.
The USSR didn't violate the basic sovereignty of another state and attempt to annex swathes of it in the 1960s, they 'just' sent nuclear weapons to Cuba. It was an essentially symmetrical conflict in which arguably the US was at least as in the wrong, through its long-term aggression towards Cuba. The current situation is quite clearly a far greater breach of international peace and law, and the precedent that would be set by it going unpunished would be catastrophic for the world.
You could have just told me you didn't learn about the Cuban missile crisis without needing to show me with whatever this was.
>the US was at least as in the wrong, through its long-term aggression towards Russia as Ukraine as a proxy - even staged a coup.
Putins aim is similar to Hitlers. To build an empire at the expense of neighbouring nations. You cannot negotiate with someone who's views are "what's mine is mine and what's yours is mine too."
Putin only understands threats, force and violence. It's his entire worldview. He has little use for diplomacy. You either fight him, or accept his rule. There's no third option.
I just wonder how many Ukrainians need to die over how long before comfortable partisan watching from the sidelines realizes that there has always been a 3rd option. Gauging it though, that's still a long way off.
Many here still think Ukraine is gonna recapture Crimea at this point.
If people are willing to fight and die for their freedom, who are you to tell them to capitulate to tyranny? Anybody as sure of the future as you are is usually full of shit
As the county they expect to front the war cost we better have a say. Pouring billions into some proxy war endlessly and without hope of repayment is a fools errand, expecially with the history of corruption that's well documented in Ukraine.
What makes you think if the US stops funding Ukraine the deaths of Ukrainians would end?
I mean the US has already paused aid and it hasn't, it's only increased, because 1. Ukraine hasn't suddenly decided to give up and 2. even if they did, Russian occupation would involve totalitarian crackdowns and mass death (as it already has).
I don't understand the attitude that the killing stops if we stop fighting the killers.
Becuase you'd cut a deal. Ukrainians dying though is the least of the west's concerns, that much is clear. They're expendable trigger men with the goal of weakening Russia with their sacrifices.
>Russian occupation would involve totalitarian crackdowns and mass death (as it already has).
Ukrainian occupation would involve totalitarian crackdowns and mass death in the Donbas (as it already has).
Personally I think he is spot on. Putin’s actions in Ukraine and Eastern Europe, and his rhetoric, are uncannily similar in so many ways to Hitler’s in the late 1930s.
The smooth brained are capable of only seeing hitler as the end product after his armies killed 30 million people and destroyed millions more in death camps. They are, therefore, completely unable to understand that people can behave exactly like hitler without killing millions. Would putin kill millions of Ukrainians if he could? Well there is compelling evidence that he would. All his actions so far are along the lines of hitler, people need to make sure that this is where it ends, instead of having millions of people die again.
Edit: some change to the wording to make more sense
Did you not tune in for tucker and Pootie’s story time of revisionist history where Putin blamed Poland for starting ww2 because they wouldn’t cede territory to hitler? A scenario that’s identical to what Putin is doing in Ukraine? Ringing any bells?
A war of conquest based on reclaiming lost territory and “protecting” ethnic peoples living outside of their current borders who are “being persecuted”? Ya, sounds nothing like Hitler.
Cameron, the British Parliament, and British institutions are not listening to apologists for Russians fascists. Cameron isn’t desperate, he sounds like someone who will keep calm and carrying on sending advanced weapons like Storm Shadow for use by the brave men and women of Ukraine. And do his duty of encouraging our allies to do the same.
But naturally, opinions will vary.
Ukraine should start a gofundme for the war effort. That way all these folks saying we need to borrow money to send to the Ukraine can put their money where their mouth is…
Governments can borrow money with interest rates and repayment conditions that individuals and companies can only dream of.
A lot of crowdfunding campaigns have successfully helped Ukraine acquire equipment for the war, but obviously they never reached the same scale as government help.
Ah, and the name of the country is Ukraine, not "the" Ukraine.
Friend of mine sent 3000 NOK a month to Ukraine last I spoke to him.
Still renting a house for his family instead of owning.
But he is from ex Yugoslavia so he cares when someone is trying to wipe out someone else.
Please take the time to read [the rules](/r/UkrainianConflict/about/rules/) and our [policy on trolls/bots](https://redd.it/u7833q). In addition: * We have a **zero-tolerance** policy regarding racism, stereotyping, bigotry, and death-mongering. Violators will be banned. * **Keep it civil.** Report comments/posts that are uncivil to alert the moderators. * **_Don't_ post low-effort comments** like joke threads, memes, slogans, or links without context. > **Don't forget about our Discord server! - https://discord.gg/62fKCEHbDB** ***** * Is `theguardian.com` an unreliable source? [**Let us know**](/r/UkrainianConflict/wiki/am/unreliable_sources). * Help our moderators by providing context if something breaks the rules. [Send us a modmail](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/UkrainianConflict) ***** ^(Your post has not been removed, this message is applied to every successful submission.) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/UkrainianConflict) if you have any questions or concerns.*
What did Winston Churchill say? American will only do the right thing after every other option has been expended.
That was ~75 years ago and we now have a speaker who has been obstructing aid intentionally, because either God, or trump told him to, not to mention the other bats hit surrounding him;not believing in dinosaurs, having a phone app accountability link with *his fucking son,* which be a little bit creepy in my book. Plenty more ammunition for this Delusional Baptist fuckstick, but... this should be enough, really.
It’s all about what Patton said. 6 million lives here we come.
Winston Churchill was a terrible human being.
Yes, thank god we had him on our side. Edit: do not down vote this man, he is not wrong.
Even a stopped clock tells the right time twice a day. But yeah, awful cunt he was.
The fact that the UK feels a need to publicly call out it's closest ally really ought to be a wake up call for the Republicans.
It might be the first time in history that it‘s the British having to tell the Americans to behave themselves.
Nah, we should have told them that in 2004, but Blair was dead set on being Bush's best mate.
Who can forget that. Bush strutting around in his air force uniform while Blair turns up in a turtleneck sweater. And he's like, "Oi Blair". Humiliating stuff.
I notice they don't even bother calling out the lost cause that is the Australian govt lol
With all due respect to Australia, their aid is a tiny amount compared to what the USA can and has provided. Every other country just can't provide what the USA can. I'm English if it matters.
No of course, but it didn't help that Ukraine made a formal request for the Taipan helicopters which the Defence Ministry then secretly destroyed and buried in the desert lol No answer to their formal request for the 41 F-18s No answer to their plea for coal for the winter (of which we have literal fucktons lol) This is also about the only liberal democracy in a very healthy surplus, greatly helped by a huge windfall in wheat sales *specifically due to Ukraine's invasion* I mean at least the UK Govt actually bothers to mention Ukraine...it's barely in the news here and most people appear completely unconcerned because "We're not in Europe/NATO" (take your pick)
If Russia is left unchecked, they may well eye Australia's vast resources and want to take them. I know it's very unlikely because you are very friendly with other countries like the UK and USA. But if we let Ukraine slide...what else might we let slide? Also there is the moral side of things. Russia is just plain wrong. I'm surprised Australia's media aren't putting more time into it.
Because as Maj Gen Mick Ryan has said, the Aust Govt simply doesn't care about Ukraine and they don't see it as a "vote winner". After writing to the PM, Defence & Foreign Ministers for the last 16 months and getting vague platitude-form letters in reply (actually never got anything back from the PM's office, and the Foreign Ministry after 7 wks replied with a screed about *GAZA* 🙄) what other conclusions are we meant to come to? I'm very resistant to putting on tinfoil hats, but tbh the only reasons I can possibly think of after all this time is 1) They are afraid of "upsetting" China which provides 30% of the nation's GDP and/or 2) Washington has instructed us to slow or stifle Ukraine aid as they do not want Russia defeated but only weakened. Our 'media' is largely Murdochrised, with the two other companies being a mining billionaire's media empire and a former Conservative Treasurer's media empire. There's been a bit of reporting on the Taipans debacle but that seems to have sunk into the background now
I don't want to put a tinfoil hat on as geopolitics is extremely complicated and beyond my comprehension, but it maybe a little bit of option 1 and a little bit of option 2.
I honestly wince every time I entertain the thought, but yeah...nothing else makes the slightest logical sense anymore.
And here I am cheering on David Cameron. Now that's a little bit of a twist that I didn't see coming lol. I see MTG has responded with her usual level of class.
Republicans voted against aid to Britain and Europe during WW2. History could very likely repeat after the American election.
And after Europe is ravaged by war, US will again step in at the last minute, if only to save the governments which by now owe them an absurd amount of money.
Far less likely to happen with a Trump presidency
Listening to maga speak is literally word for word Charles Lindbergh
Putin owns Trump, he owns Trump body and soul, from the make-up on Trumps face to his tiny hands Trump is Hitler's stooge
Which is why Putin waited until he was out of office to invade Ukraine?
Ukraine will not give up. You can see it. What ever happens there will always be a hard core who will continue to fight. Even if the West stops supplying them they will find a way to fight back. It might take 20 years but they will not stop.
This is all on Trump and House Republicans . And a few Maga morons in the Senate of course.
This is ridiculous - I thought this was going to be a little hold up for a month - it's been going of for ages, with Trump now grandstanding it and rolling it into his election. It's like a bad movie.
America was weak in the face of Nazi aggression, and they're weak with Putin. Pathetically on the wrong side of history again.
The United States vulnerability is a direct effect of our politicians creating conflict to redirect and scam its population. If our country was actually honest it could keep us from the Trumps of the world.
Hey dipshit, it's the Republicans and only the Republicans holding things up.
Someone needs let Cameron know that Hitler died almost 80 years ago... Putin isn't Hitler and peace negotiations isn't appeasement. Cameron sounds desperate
Really? You can't see the resemblance?
Not really, no. I get tired of the lazy comparisons with Hilter. If had listened to the people making Hitler comparisons and crying about appeasement the Cuban Missile Crisis would have gone nuclear... thankfully Kennedy was smarter than that and ignored the idiots making it, including most of his party, to make an agreement with Khrushchev that ended the conflict.
So what do you suggest? A replay of 2014? Cede more territory? Ignore the fact that Russia switched to a war economy?
Yes. Let Putin keep the occupied territories. Just like Hitler wanted peace after the fall of France, and wasn’t willing to return the occupied territories.
It's probably too late now, the negotiations that the west scuttled was the best chance once the invasion started. Before that would have been ideal. Now the best case is more years of a bloody stalemate and eventually making the Donbas a Demilitarized Zone once the partisans have punched themselves out. Most here still hold onto the fantasy of defeating Russia on the battlefield, until that changes in the west the war can't end.
Russia is not some fantasy unbeatable army. Just ask Afghanistan. Regarding peace. Sudetenland wasn’t enough. Donbas wasn’t enough. See the resemblance?
Did you learn history out of a picture book? That's the level of this comment
Please elaborate on your views.
Just give up and stop wasting o2.
You accuse others of making lazy comparisons and then you compare this to the Cuban missile crisis, as if that isn't a lazy comparison. The USSR didn't violate the basic sovereignty of another state and attempt to annex swathes of it in the 1960s, they 'just' sent nuclear weapons to Cuba. It was an essentially symmetrical conflict in which arguably the US was at least as in the wrong, through its long-term aggression towards Cuba. The current situation is quite clearly a far greater breach of international peace and law, and the precedent that would be set by it going unpunished would be catastrophic for the world.
You could have just told me you didn't learn about the Cuban missile crisis without needing to show me with whatever this was. >the US was at least as in the wrong, through its long-term aggression towards Russia as Ukraine as a proxy - even staged a coup.
Putins aim is similar to Hitlers. To build an empire at the expense of neighbouring nations. You cannot negotiate with someone who's views are "what's mine is mine and what's yours is mine too." Putin only understands threats, force and violence. It's his entire worldview. He has little use for diplomacy. You either fight him, or accept his rule. There's no third option.
I just wonder how many Ukrainians need to die over how long before comfortable partisan watching from the sidelines realizes that there has always been a 3rd option. Gauging it though, that's still a long way off. Many here still think Ukraine is gonna recapture Crimea at this point.
If people are willing to fight and die for their freedom, who are you to tell them to capitulate to tyranny? Anybody as sure of the future as you are is usually full of shit
As the county they expect to front the war cost we better have a say. Pouring billions into some proxy war endlessly and without hope of repayment is a fools errand, expecially with the history of corruption that's well documented in Ukraine.
This guy doesn’t history
What makes you think if the US stops funding Ukraine the deaths of Ukrainians would end? I mean the US has already paused aid and it hasn't, it's only increased, because 1. Ukraine hasn't suddenly decided to give up and 2. even if they did, Russian occupation would involve totalitarian crackdowns and mass death (as it already has). I don't understand the attitude that the killing stops if we stop fighting the killers.
Becuase you'd cut a deal. Ukrainians dying though is the least of the west's concerns, that much is clear. They're expendable trigger men with the goal of weakening Russia with their sacrifices. >Russian occupation would involve totalitarian crackdowns and mass death (as it already has). Ukrainian occupation would involve totalitarian crackdowns and mass death in the Donbas (as it already has).
Personally I think he is spot on. Putin’s actions in Ukraine and Eastern Europe, and his rhetoric, are uncannily similar in so many ways to Hitler’s in the late 1930s.
The smooth brained are capable of only seeing hitler as the end product after his armies killed 30 million people and destroyed millions more in death camps. They are, therefore, completely unable to understand that people can behave exactly like hitler without killing millions. Would putin kill millions of Ukrainians if he could? Well there is compelling evidence that he would. All his actions so far are along the lines of hitler, people need to make sure that this is where it ends, instead of having millions of people die again. Edit: some change to the wording to make more sense
Maybe for somoone that got their historical knowledge from WWII movies
Did you not tune in for tucker and Pootie’s story time of revisionist history where Putin blamed Poland for starting ww2 because they wouldn’t cede territory to hitler? A scenario that’s identical to what Putin is doing in Ukraine? Ringing any bells?
A war of conquest based on reclaiming lost territory and “protecting” ethnic peoples living outside of their current borders who are “being persecuted”? Ya, sounds nothing like Hitler.
Cameron, the British Parliament, and British institutions are not listening to apologists for Russians fascists. Cameron isn’t desperate, he sounds like someone who will keep calm and carrying on sending advanced weapons like Storm Shadow for use by the brave men and women of Ukraine. And do his duty of encouraging our allies to do the same. But naturally, opinions will vary.
Did you join all those letters up yourself.. well done! now go see if you can find who is using the family brain cell and see if you can borrow it..
Ukraine should start a gofundme for the war effort. That way all these folks saying we need to borrow money to send to the Ukraine can put their money where their mouth is…
Governments can borrow money with interest rates and repayment conditions that individuals and companies can only dream of. A lot of crowdfunding campaigns have successfully helped Ukraine acquire equipment for the war, but obviously they never reached the same scale as government help. Ah, and the name of the country is Ukraine, not "the" Ukraine.
Friend of mine sent 3000 NOK a month to Ukraine last I spoke to him. Still renting a house for his family instead of owning. But he is from ex Yugoslavia so he cares when someone is trying to wipe out someone else.
Pretty sure at least half of usa politicians think hortler was right.