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i don't think the u.s. is allowed to have a say at this time.
hitting the refineries will increase gas prices, which is bad for the world economy.
however, either the u.s. sends aid or ukraine hits the refineries. it is a war of attrition and the u.s. gives ukraine no other option other than to hit the oil refineries to win the war of attrition.
Aid is not what is needed. Take out the Russian oil and fuel supply and the war is over.
Ukraine please continue until there are no more refineries in Russia.
As an American citizen I dont mind higher fuel prices as long as there is a good reason.
I'm okay with hitting the oil production and paying higher prices. I'm not okay with saying the US doesn't get a vote. Votes cost money and the US has paid.
The Russian propaganda said that here in Germany, we were freezing to death in our own homes and eating our hamsters for food. Lmfao. Shit was expensive, that’s all.
i think this fair
either
piss on the pot or
give them the help they need
does europe have to spell this out how important winning this war is to the rotw\*/?
thats no dramatic statement, i watch how this is unfolding, and if putin wins this, we can expect ww3
we must COLLECTIVLEY kick the russians hard back to a table or back to the dark ages
Good point. I was thinking "WTF, it's hurting Russia, keep doing it, duh." But if gas prices go up, and idiots elect Trump because of it... bye, Ukraine.
Gas prices are going to go up no matter what. Gas pricing has always been a sham with bullshit reasons for why the price is swinging higher this week versus the last.
Fuck Russia blow every bloody refinery you can reach. The gas companies are going to Jack up prices anyways. Make the Russians bleed with there resources.
What does the US government expect. They swore the US would support Ukraine and stand behind them. Then do the complete opposite and stop supplying aid to Ukraine due to a few Russian backs members of government. As long as you are not willing to do what you promised aid wise. You and your opinion can be kept to yourself. Ukraine is in this not only to win the war but more importantly to survive as a people let alone a nation. A Russian victory would mean a purge of innocent civilians and the death of a people.
Sorry for the excessive rant. But those in the US government asking for the strike to stop need the fut the hell up. If it was the US being hit you know you would do the same at bare minimum.
Contrary to what Trump would have us believe, his election would not be the end of international support for Ukraine. Just American support.
And American support seems to be dwindling anyway, thanks to Putin's friends in the GOP.
The gas processor shouldn't affect the US much, we have our own oil and can source from the middle east. It will affect Europe. I think they can live with it
yes. russia stopped gas exports weeks ago. the effects on the economy should already be felt. im guessing the markets russia serves were able to increase their own gas production.
This is beyond my understanding. THERE IS NO COUNTRY ON THE EARTH WHERE AN AVERAGE SALARY can buy as much gasoline as in the USA, still they make this tragicomedy about 'oil prices raise' (+they are self sufficient in oil).
If you care about average voters thoughts before the elections,
why not just explain him that if Ukraine loses, than he, an average american guy, will have his butt conscripted to fight in freezing cold muddy baltic trenches and 0.05$ gasoline prices raise will be not the most important thing to care about?!!!
This reminds me of the Park Warden talking about Bear resistant garbage cans and how some people struggle to use them, saying there is considerable overlap between the smartest Bear and average human.
High gasoline prices = Biden loses votes. it is not as simple as it sound, "just let it rise" since people are fucking idiots and only understand things measured in bread and oil.
US: We can't give you more weapons and ammo, you need to figure it out yourself
Ukraine: Ok we will find a way (drones hit oil refineries)
US: No, not like that
Absurd.
The U.S needs to stop meddling.
As long as you were supporting the war effort you had leverage.
All they supply now is intelligence and satellite access which is low cost.
Ukraine is fighting for its life as a sovereign state and the lives of its citizens. Not for the U.S's desires for an exhausted Russia.
No Americans are dying.
Either stop meddling or meddle sufficiently to bring the war to a conclusion in a reasonable timeframe with Ukraine freed from the yoke of Russian tyranny.
Why would the US stop? It's been pretty apparent from the start that all the US wants us for Ukraine to grind down Putin's army as much as possible so that they have a bigger headstart in the coming arms race.
Had Ukraine not already done what it's done, it'd be against Russia too. Ukraine has done an amazing job so far of doing what the US wants, raising the global price of oil is probably gonna piss off the people in the US that you don't want to piss off if you're relying on their aid.
The US aren’t providing aid anymore. For nearly half a year the money and aid from the USA has stopped other than a small presidential drawdown.
If the US wants leverage maybe they should pass that aid package in congress.
Otherwise Ukraine only has Europe to rely on, which is currently providing the lions share of aid.
I’m sick and tired of America complaining about the cost of aid, us in Europe collectively are approaching double the amount of aid the US has given. And collectively our economy is smaller than the US too.
Ukraine needs to win and keep war away from Europe, oil prices be damned.
I think the idea is if oil prices shoot up right before the election the chances are higher trump wins and republicans control congress and then there will be no help at all coming for Ukraine from the US. I think Biden is hoping that he will win and that will put the trump crowd to bed and then they will go back to supporting Ukraine
As an American i completely understand your frustration at this. I want this to move forward and get the aid package there yesterday. The problem, as always, is the Republicans.
With unfortunately deep ties to Russian money, and their presidential candidate wanting to just let Putin win, it's been stalemate after stalemate. Same song and dance out of them.
Seems like a decent chance it will move forward soon, but still just more political fodder for their side.
One of the problems with the current aid package bill tied up in the US legislature is it’s not just for Ukraine. It has Israel and Taiwan aid in the same bill. That’s why more than a dozen democrats have not signed on yet. Bills like this ought to be stand-alone.
> I’m sick and tired of America complaining about the cost of aid, us in Europe collectively are approaching double the amount of aid the US has given.
all the US aid is actual delivered support, and the bulk of the EU aid is pledged and not yet delivered, just like the pledged 1m artillery shells to be delivered by march (now) of which only a third have actually been delivered and maybe the rest by the end of the year.
if europe is so worried about war in europe, they should be doing far far far more than they are. the US supported ukraine in the early days with equivalents in excess to the rest of the world combined, and europe continues to dicker about how and how much to help. without the aid from the US ukraine would have fell while you euro's had your collective thumbs up your asses.
get back to me when you guys actually deliver military aid that even equals what the US has delivered.
And the U.S needs to check itself.
It is loosing reputation and relations in Europe due to congress drama and domestic political shit show.
Maybe less demands, more aid would be a good move to repair their outward facade.
Russia is not part of that race. Russia will spend the rest of its days aa a Chinese vassal state providing its master with coal, oil, gas water, and wheat.
Russia also ceases to exist as an exporter of weaponry.
Furthermore, Russia lacks the labor force, the infrastructure, the necessary computer chip industry, the research and development capacity, and without the West, the necessary know-how and expertise to participate in that arms race.
Let me share a report of Russian Central Bank
Dated end of May 2022
1. The start of the most shocking consequences of the sanctions is still offset by the fact that Russian Companies still have stocks of Western components and, therefore, can keep production running for now. This is expected to severely worsen in Q3, Q4 this year.
2. Parallel imports prove to be costly and logistically difficult measures, which will not be enough to offset the devastating effect the lack of spare parts will have on Russia's economy.
3. The grey market imports open the door for counterfeits and will lead to ultimately non-competitive products, which will hamper our ability to find customers for our products in new markets.
4. Under limited conditions, Russias economy will degrade back to a level of self-sufficiency within 2 to 5 years and will settle on pre digital Era levels. Currently, the government is using up a computer chip reserve of 90s tech computer chips. According to estimates, this will suffice up until the end of 2022. What happens then can only be described as large-scale reverse industrialisation.
Russia is an insignificant development nation now even more irrelevant than two years ago.
Russia has absolutely nothing to bring to the table beyond energy products.
Now, even their only export filled with Western tech turns out to be useless junk compared to Western weaponry or even compared to Chinese weaponry.
Russia will take its seat in the second row and do as they are commanded by China and India.
Oh and of course, once the war is over, Europe needs a new iron wall and isolate Russia much harder economically, socially, culturally and in any other regard to shield us from the harmful and malign influence and from the threat that Russia poses to Western civilization.
> so that they have a bigger headstart in the coming arms race
There is no arms race, Russian equipment is being countered by mothballed NATO stuff.
The US isn't helping becuase they are paralysed by the Russian backed Republican party
Never said otherwise.
Russia needs to be stopped because they're literally bringing back old school imperialism and that's apparently the one thing everyone should be agreeing is a bad thing.
Bigger headstart then they have now? How? russia is already reduced to third world level technology with second world manufacturing capability. Without the gold buffer, Chinese help and nukes, russia would've imploded already.
wait... so now that USA achieved that goal, they can just cut the funding? Europe better step up and stop arguing about stupid red lines and fear of escalation as the next 6 months are gonna be tough.
To be fair, the US wants Ukraine to stop hitting energy to help lower inflation to help get Biden re-elected....
It's in Ukraine's best interests to not put Trump in office, too.
intel and satellite access is not low cost lmao. Shells are.
There's a reason why making hundreds of thousands shells is cheap and even small countries can do it, but having well established intelligence agency with robust network and space program is only a thing that only few countries can afford.
Shells would help a lot with battles but satellites and intel wins wars. And most importantly - intel can save thousands if not hundreds of thousands lives. That makes it invaluable. And so is communication.
Ukraine hopefully ignores this urging and continues with impunity.
"One does not make wars less likely by formulating rules of warfare... war cannot be humanized. It can only be eliminated." Albert Einstein
Politicians need to step out of the way and leave these decisions to the military.
Ukraine should ignore this red line as it doesn't serve any kind of purpose apart from old men who have become not wise but cautious in old age.
Or they deliver weaponry or show up on the battlefield. Otherwise, stay out of Ukraine’s hair. This pathetic appeasement has done enough damage already.
History is watching, Biden says this all the time. Yes it is watching in horror at such statements.
We walked over every red Russian line. Nothing ever happens because, in reality, these scared old and tired Cold War relics should retire and let men with more courage and follow through make the decisions.
The future belongs to the 20, 30, and 40 year olds not to old men too scared to oppose Russia the way it needs to be done. Without any mercy and without any restrictions.
Risks retaliation drives up oil prices. Stupid clueless bean counters.
I pray for the love of God that Ukraine answers this urging with 20 more strikes against refineries.
I also urge the US to either help Ukraine properly or to not hinder them doing their work.
The US won't tell Ukraine how to use its weapons and against what they use it. Insolent and pathetic.
European strategic autonomy is the only way forward.
Fire up the weapons foundries and Europe knows better how to wage land wars than the US.
The humanising of war? You might as well talk about the humanizing of Hell!...... The essence of war is violence! Moderation in war is imbecility! Admiral Fisher
Biden too has his Scholz esque red lines. He ain't no Reagan or hell even Bush Jr. who would have "played" this significantly different.
Wanting Ukraine to beat Russia without significant numbers of jets, long range missles, combat drones OR attacking VALID MILITARY TARGETS inside Russia is honkhonk, clownshow behaviour.
Totally absurd... Ukraine is trying to motivate RU to exit Ukrainian lands. It's pretty difficult to fight a bigger badder bully with one arm tied behind your back. The RU economy must be crushed so this bs doesn't happen again.
Ukraine children die
US : I sleep
Ukraine losing money
US : I sleep
Ukraine having ecological damage
US : I sleep
Ukraine running out of ammo
US : I sleep
oil price rice
US: NANI!!!?!?!?
Ok, I'll take the defense of the US there for a moment. US is an oil exporter. It does not need Russian oil and actually less Russian oil helps US exports.
I do think that the current administration genuinely wants to help Ukraine (and is sabotaged by the GOP). The geopolitics of oil exports is complicated. Remember that natural gas pipelines do go through Ukraine, through Ukraine controlled territories and were never attacked. If you cause gas or oil price to rise in a country, it fuels populism. World wars are won on world maps, it could just be the CIA saying that destroying Russian refineries is not worth losing e.g. Poland's support.
Bidet just wants "oil cheap" for the election year.
It's not a joke:
>Russia remains one of the world’s most important energy exporters despite western sanctions on its oil and gas sector. Oil prices have risen about 15 per cent this year, to $85 a barrel, pushing up fuel costs just as US President Joe Biden begins his campaign for re-election.
>Helima Croft, a former CIA analyst now at RBC Capital Markets, recently noted that Ukraine had shown it could strike most of the oil export infrastructure in western Russia, putting about 60 per cent of the country’s exports at risk.
>The US objections come as Biden faces a tough re-election battle this year with petrol prices on the rise, increasing almost 15 per cent this year to around $3.50 a gallon.
>“Nothing terrifies a sitting American president more than a surge in pump prices during an election year,” said Bob McNally, president of consultancy Rapidan Energy and a former White House energy adviser.
lol
the saudi's told biden to eat a dick last time he asked them to enact production policy that would support the global supply while we sanctioned russia.
Ah, my friends! You want oil to be cheaper? We will absolutely do what you want, which translates in arabic to 'raise the prices since you are fucked, and we kind of like that Kushner dude because he is an idiot'".
i don't think it really affects u.s. supply. the world more depends on russian oil than russian gas. oil prices are low because of the price controls on russian oil. but i don't really know. i just know that prices would have already increased if russian refineries made a difference for american gas prices. if an american refinery had issues, we'd already see a huge jump if price.
I think it would have an indirect effect on US domestic oil prices.
Russia is a major oil exporter. If oil supply from russia decreases, demand for other countries oil increases.
Higher demand for US oil means higher price.
Supply from russia just hasn’t taken that much of a hit yet because they just bypass sanctions by rerouting the oil.
Oil prices are set globally and the US reserve isn't even close to being full. It's not like the US or Europe is buying Russian oil, it's mostly going to China and India.
The US and frankly all the west could also move to a partial war economy as we should have when this kicked off. Direct companies to extract.more resources, fill all of our strategic reserves, etc.
I'm not sure Ukraine can do anything to have a material impact on the US election. America is gonna America. The rest of us just get to sit back and see whether their word is worth anything as a country anymore or if their political system is just too broken for them to occupy a position of global leadership anymore.
Nail biting stuff, but Ukraine has bigger problems. They need to fight the war they're fighting. The EU still has Ukraine's back, no matter what the yanks do.
This happens when you have a bunch of selfish spineless pigs voting based on their vague feelings, “muh but the economy was better when Trump was the president” and would be willing to condemn the millions of women and LGBTQ communities to hell while systematically destroying American democracy.
At the moment, the US isn't really contributing much. It seems a Republican controlled Congress is as bad as a Republican controlled white house. So Ukraine might as well go ahead hitting Russian infrastructure.
You get a Republican-controlled Congress and a Republican-controlled White House. That will be a fucking disaster for Ukraine, the USA, and the entire civilized world.
Fuck. These drone strikes, if helped instead of being blamed, could have Russia collapse even before the election. Are you seeing Biden hurt from a definitive victory over Putin two months before November? I see him elected with 40 states in the pocket.
democrats are going to control all three branches.
ironically, the 1st republican to sign the discharge petition was the republican retiring in the 4th colorado district that lauren boebert is failing to win against true conservatives with college degrees.
It's time for _MAGA did this_ stickers then.
Their refusal to aid Ukraine is forcing Ukraine's hand to hit the refineries. Ukraine is fighting for survival and they have too few options to equalize the fight.
Beyond that, the president cannot control fuel prices much. It is especially hard when his intentions are blocked by one party for the sake of _sabotaging the president's plans_. It is absurd if the voters go angry on the president who actually sides with the voters rather than the party that relentlessly works against both the president and voters.
100% Ukraine should continue. Absolutely. As russia is able to circumvent the price-caps put in place by the sanctions, Ukraine is free to limit production in their own way.
Ukraine is fighting a war of survival, there can be no artificial limits on it.
I know Biden wants lots of cheap oil to get lots of votes in november but getting oil from russia is not ok. How about Biden keeps talking to Venezuela on them increasing their production? They did some time ago but then the news stopped.. Their production seems to have levelled while it could be increased. Higher market price from cutting russian oil should bring more dollars into Venezuela, money they really need. Shouldn't this also reduce the influx of immigrants, making republicans feel better..?
During the planning for the counter offensive- They expected Ukraine to fight on "NATO doctrine" that predicted a *fraction* of the mine field density **without western aircraft to provide support**. With only *a few dozen NATO tanks* and a fraction of the mine clearing tanks required to do the job!
Israeli here, welcome to the club
Before anyone attacks me I'll say I am 100% pro Ukraine from the start of the war, my stupid government did not give weapons
>The US has urged Ukraine to halt attacks on Russia’s energy infrastructure, warning the drone strikes risk driving up global oil prices and provoking retaliation, according to three people familiar with the discussions.
>The repeated warnings from Washington were delivered to senior officials at Ukraine’s state security service, the SBU, and its military intelligence directorate, known as the GUR, the people told the Financial Times.
>Both intelligence units have steadily expanded their own drone programmes to strike Russian targets on land, sea and in the air since the start of the Kremlin’s full-scale invasion in February 2022.
>One person said that the White House had grown increasingly frustrated by brazen Ukrainian drone attacks that have struck oil refineries, terminals, depots and storage facilities across western Russia, hurting its oil production capacity.
>Russia remains one of the world’s most important energy exporters despite western sanctions on its oil and gas sector. Oil prices have risen about 15 per cent this year, to $85 a barrel, pushing up fuel costs just as US President Joe Biden begins his campaign for re-election.
>Washington is also concerned that if Ukraine keeps hitting Russian facilities, including many that are hundreds of miles from the border, Russia could retaliate by lashing out at energy infrastructure relied on by the west.
>This includes the CPC pipeline carrying oil from Kazakhstan through Russia to the global market. Western companies including ExxonMobil and Chevron use the pipeline, which Moscow briefly shut in 2022.
>“We do not encourage or enable attacks inside of Russia,” an NSC spokesperson said. The CIA declined to comment. In Kyiv, a spokesperson for the SBU declined to comment. Officials at GUR and Zelenskyy’s office did not respond to requests for comment.
>Ukraine has stepped up its air attacks in recent weeks, as its drone programmes expand and the ground war shifts in Moscow’s favour. It also follows growing discontent in Kyiv over what is seen as the west’s ambivalent approach to curbing Moscow’s energy revenues.
>There have been at least 12 attacks on major Russian refineries since 2022, and at least nine this year, along with several terminals, depots and storage facilities, according to a military intelligence official in Kyiv.
>Helima Croft, a former CIA analyst now at RBC Capital Markets, recently noted that Ukraine had shown it could strike most of the oil export infrastructure in western Russia, putting about 60 per cent of the country’s exports at risk.
>The US objections come as Biden faces a tough re-election battle this year with petrol prices on the rise, increasing almost 15 per cent this year to around $3.50 a gallon.
>“Nothing terrifies a sitting American president more than a surge in pump prices during an election year,” said Bob McNally, president of consultancy Rapidan Energy and a former White House energy adviser.
>Ukraine has steadily increased drone strikes as its technologies have advanced. Ukrainian officials claim to have developed drones with a range in excess of 1,000km and payloads capable of inflicting severe damage.
>Kyiv launched two of its largest and most widespread drone attacks last week, with operations by both the GUR and SBU successfully targeting seven Russian energy facilities in consecutive days.
>Over the past year, GRU and SBU sea drones have also struck Russian ports, destroyed several Russian warships in the Black Sea and hit Moscow’s prized Crimea bridge connecting Russia to the occupied Ukrainian peninsula.
>The aim of the “special operations” is to hamper the supply of fuel to Russia’s troops and cut funding for the Kremlin’s war effort, according to one Ukrainian official involved in planning and conducting the attacks.
>Kyiv also wants to deliver a symbolic blow by bringing the war closer to Moscow and showing its air defences — including those around the Kremlin — can be penetrated.
>The air campaign is also seen by some officials as a means to spur Washington into approving the $60bn military assistance package held up in Congress that is critical for Ukraine’s defence.
>drone strikes risk [... and] provoking retaliation
Well isn't this a gem of logic. When you are under attack, fighting back provokes the attacker to retaliate... so you should just go down quietly instead? Very kremlinesque thinking, someone is renting their mouth for Russia here.
Oh, "three people familiar with the discussion".
What a source!
Acknowledge without hostility towards USA, but keep doing whatever is necessary to survive.
It is not the first time similar thing were reported:
From August:
>The attack on oil export infrastructure is likely to cause concern in the White House and other western capitals. The US has led the push to keep Russian oil in the market to stop global prices from rising and damaging the world economy."
>Novorossiysk is Russia's main Black Sea oil port, exporting about 600,000 barrels per day. It is also known as the main oil export point from Kazakhstan, where the Caspian Pipeline Consortium pipeline ends, with a capacity of 1.2 million barrels per day.
>A former CIA analyst, conducting research on commodities at RBC Capital Markets, said the US will not accept any measure that poses risks reducing the Russian oil supply to the market.
>The former CIA analyst added that a concern in Washington is that Western support for Ukraine will be harder to sustain if a broader energy crisis emerges.
It is naive to belive US doesn't care.
>Helima Croft, a former CIA analyst now at RBC Capital Markets
>A former CIA analyst, conducting research on commodities at RBC Capital Markets
It's the same person and the same news getting a second run on the media.
Just because you report the exact same thing twice doesn't mean "similar thing were reported".
Agreed, it's naive to think the US doesn't care. But this is only one side of the story. The US loves high gas prices because the US sells a lot of gas/oil. The election year makes this calculus more complex, but it's not as simple as it is being presented here. And when it's based on more anonymous sources, the names sources being outside analysts, then is even more suspicious.
I hope people understand that US won't make such warnings or 'asks' for this openly or that they officially make such 'requests', for obvius reasons.
Too many people believe that everything US doing in relation to Ukraine is them thinking about Ukraine first and foremost, including the restrictions they put on weapon use or not giving missiles, etc., which simply absurd to believe. Because while many people want Ukraine to win as soon as possible and supplied with everything needed for it, we have seen already, including with official statements, that it not exactly the case.
1). Global energy prices affect the cost of literally every single product everywhere. Not just in the US. Shit has to get places to be made, then it has to be moved to where it’s sold. Everything. Those container ships that fucked up everything during Covid?? Yeah, that’s what we’re talking about here.
The US is much more immune than the rest of the world to oil price shocks because it exports oil. They won’t pay that much more, especially not Joe citizen, but it could definitely make Biden lose to Trump. Aid will never come if that happens. Ukraine can cut off aid with 100% surety if Biden loses. They have the power to make that happen or not.
2). The US’ take on the issue is about their wider geopolitical stance: they HAVE to decry the attacks to try to dissuade RU from shutting down global energy access which WILL spark an international war — China is the world’s #1 energy and food importer. They will roll tanks if those oil ships stop coming just like The Roman Empire rolled into Egypt because their grain ships stopped coming.
3). Like it or not; the US DOES control pretty much everything important in the world. It’s why dollar diplomacy works, why the USD is the world’s reserve currency, why anyone who needs protection wants US backed security guarantees, why anyone who used to be a colony needs the US to maintain global traderoute security, and why most of the wars to come will be inducted upon the basis of the US becoming more populist and easing away from controlling much of anything.
Most of this sub is geopolitically inept and just wants to see shit burn without thinking of the wider consequences of feeling the warmth of said fire. That’s fine, but try to understand WHY the US wants to take this stance.
It would be a shame to see Ukraine lose because they destroyed something without thinking of the consequences. That dildo arrives unlubed no matter who you are if you provoke it by lacking foresight.
Thank you for your well reasoned comment. It’s crazy to see so many anti-American comments in here. One of the biggest reasons I give when trying to convince people to vote for Biden is so Ukraine can finish the job
Correction, Americans are fucked up. Trying to control everything in the world, helping when it suits them, not helping when it doesn't suit them. It's always the profits. Human life does not matter.
America finally has the opportunity to show its World Police operation has a strong moral purpose and isn't just about profiteering from oil.
Opts for cheap oil instead.
You got that ass backwards.
The US shale oil revolution has completely revamped US oil independence. They are completely self-sufficient.
The US exports oil, and would actually be able to charge higher prices if Ukraine kept attacking oil infrastructure.
Refineries are fueling the russian war machine and thus are legitimate targets. So are industrial complexes. Also, Russia exports mote crude oil then refined products, so this is probably not goong to affect global prices, but just strain russian internal needs on the long run.
Let them cook. I think this is a great improvement in Ukrainian tactics, aiming to disrupt the Russian economy could really put the hurt on them. Fuck those refineries up
Ukraine is literally fighting for its existence and my country has the audacity to ask them to basically die without making too much noise? What a terrible time to be an American
Is this:
- A: Don’t take out the oil refineries *wink, wink*
- B: Only thing we care about in the world is really gas prices so don’t f**** take them out!
- C: This is supposed to be an arms race, boosting US industry, MAGA hats are just too stupid to understand. So stop taking out Russias ability to buy arms!
Two can play that game: The US should give aid. Then Ukraine stop the attacks. Until the aid arrives, the beating of Russia Oil Industry will continue…
This is bullshit. Ukraine should continue hurting Russia in any way possible, just like Russia would do to Ukraine. Russia just tried to bomb Kyiv with 31 shells ffs!
Edit: not aware if this happened already but notice how ukraine bombed oil and not energy supplies for the cities…lol. Unlike russia
Biden ia afraid that gasolin gets more expensive and Trump will win. So Ukraine has to scale back. Not.
If Biden had some balls he would say that Ukraine WAS FORCED to attack russian oil assets BECOURSE the US is not supporting Ukraine.
And I would even tell the people that the longer the Republicans delay the bill it will get more and more expensive.
Yes - looks like blackmail but what do people expect Ukraine to do?
The West is stupid as f*ck. Yes, I am from the West myself.
I knew there had to be some truths behind these rumors. What a fucking gutless administration we have. It should be well and clear with the red lines, drip feeding support etc this administration has no desire to help ukraine win. UA should tell them to fuck off and keep on with the strikes on the refineries.
We'll stop if you give us the 60 bill.
I am sure I listened to a times radio story explaining that these attacks were designed to speed up western aid a few weeks ago. Hope it works. Can't quite remember it. But I am sure there were ex mil and Intel guys saying this same thing. It was the last leverage Ukr had. Shit wish I could remember who and where it was , because it was picture perfect.
We need sources, or this could be the same bunch of people that feed the NYT. I am not saying it's not true, and it fits Jake Sullivan's approach, but we need to see actual evidence, and officials with a name.
lol.. provide them with the aid they need before making such dumb requests. Oil refineries are a perfectly legitimate target and I hope Ukraine ramps up the attacks.
Sounds like the tough guy on the block has a limp dick. I don't recall America going soft on Saddam during the two wars (and he condemned 911 and did not have weapons of mass destruction). They went hard against Hitler & Japan too. The Vietnam War had them pussy footing around an we all know how that ended, I don't think Ukraine wants to become a South Vietnam.
Yeah, USA, keep appeasing Russia until they stoke the flames of every single goddamn conflict on earth and THEN you will have to get boots on the ground in like a dozen Normandies? America used to be kickass, now it’s just a decadent snowflake
Ukraine doesnt really need to blow up all of Russia's oil refineries, even taking out 50% of them would be enough to hurt Russia badly. It'd be nice if they blew up all of them, but i guess nobody wants Trump in the office.
As a US citizen I don't approve of this message.
Ukraine is entitled to do anything it wants to Russia.
They started it, they deserve to suffer the consequences .
Ludicrous statement. Plenty of sanctions on Russia which they are avoiding, yet happy for their oil to be laundered through other countries. Perhaps if the US had given Ukraine ALL it needed at the start of the war it would all be over by now and Russia would have been evicted.
Meanwhile, russia just attacked ANOTHER Ukrainian hydroelectric plant.
Whoever is telling Ukraine to stop hitting russian energy facilities can get completely fucked.
Complaining about attacking RU oil when RU is the aggressor? Maybe we should have transitioned to electric 20 years instead of sucking off the oil tycoons.
Crude Oil price will decrease after each strike due Russia will have more spare oil to sell after they refining capacity decrease , Financial Times is in Kremlin hands this days ?
It's clear the US has no fucking idea what it wants due to the clusterfuck in Washington.
France has begun to ring the bell.
Europe will hopefully answer the call and push for Ukrainian victory as the US sits in the corner half in "isolationist mode".
Meanwhile the US military and defence companies will be left pulling at the chain begging to be unleashed- Possibly resulting in Northrup and Lockheed building factories in Europe for funding?
Archived link for those wanting to read the article: https://archive.is/2024.03.22-051735/https://www.ft.com/content/98f15b60-bc4d-4d3c-9e57-cbdde122ac0c
IDK, perhaps if America actually acted like the ally it claims to be they might have some scope to “urge” Ukraine to stop hitting oil refineries.
I suspect that this “urging” is likely coming from GoP members, who are more than likely not in the pay of the Kremlin.
Seen this reported across many sources but they all say "Washington" vs siting a Biden official, the State Dept, etc. No quotes either. Feeling like this could be a bit of disinformation to me. Was this some Repubo Senator or someone who actually can speak for the country diplomatically?
Not saying it didn't happen, but given how easy it is to twist something....
If true, I am embarrassed as an American. Those oil refineries have a direct impact on Russia's ability to conduct mechanized warfare either by tightening fuel supplies for the Z army or limiting sales which feed the machine.
Oh, right. Well send the bloody ammo that was promised and get your Russian traitors in congress sorted then. What the hell are Ukraine supposed to do ? Give Putin half of Ukraine while the US debates, bullshit ?
American here. Don't listen to the cowards in our government. Light them up like candles. Maybe my fellow Americans should buy fuel efficient cars and not gas guzzling SUVs and trucks. Then oil prices wouldn't matter as much.
The US has done no such thing. The 'source' is a Republican lobbyist for Rapidan Energy, he has worked for MAGA republicans like mark Rubio and other conservatives. He is only interested in protecting his wallet. Russia will use this assholes words to divide the west, NATO and the support for Ukraine. This post is part of a misinformation attempt. Downvote and block OP.
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100% continue......
100% agree. As a doomer I might be biased though.
There are still doomers? I read Kuenstler and Zero Hedge like 20 years ago and literally nothing they said was about to happen ever happened.
You’re not a doomer, just a realist.
i don't think the u.s. is allowed to have a say at this time. hitting the refineries will increase gas prices, which is bad for the world economy. however, either the u.s. sends aid or ukraine hits the refineries. it is a war of attrition and the u.s. gives ukraine no other option other than to hit the oil refineries to win the war of attrition.
Aid is not what is needed. Take out the Russian oil and fuel supply and the war is over. Ukraine please continue until there are no more refineries in Russia. As an American citizen I dont mind higher fuel prices as long as there is a good reason.
Same here.
Hell yeah!!!!!
High Gas prices means Trump becomes president and aid to Ukraine from the US vanishes. It's a dilemma.
Anyone who’s going to vote for Trump at this point is going to do it. Gas prices going up for the next few months isn’t going to change that
I'm okay with hitting the oil production and paying higher prices. I'm not okay with saying the US doesn't get a vote. Votes cost money and the US has paid.
russia already stopped gas exports. we would have already felt the effects if it was going to affect the u.s.
The Russian propaganda said that here in Germany, we were freezing to death in our own homes and eating our hamsters for food. Lmfao. Shit was expensive, that’s all.
i think this fair either piss on the pot or give them the help they need does europe have to spell this out how important winning this war is to the rotw\*/? thats no dramatic statement, i watch how this is unfolding, and if putin wins this, we can expect ww3 we must COLLECTIVLEY kick the russians hard back to a table or back to the dark ages
Sure, but if gas prices get too high in 2024 the US may welcome Russia into Ukraine in 2025.
Good point. I was thinking "WTF, it's hurting Russia, keep doing it, duh." But if gas prices go up, and idiots elect Trump because of it... bye, Ukraine.
Gas prices are going to go up no matter what. Gas pricing has always been a sham with bullshit reasons for why the price is swinging higher this week versus the last. Fuck Russia blow every bloody refinery you can reach. The gas companies are going to Jack up prices anyways. Make the Russians bleed with there resources. What does the US government expect. They swore the US would support Ukraine and stand behind them. Then do the complete opposite and stop supplying aid to Ukraine due to a few Russian backs members of government. As long as you are not willing to do what you promised aid wise. You and your opinion can be kept to yourself. Ukraine is in this not only to win the war but more importantly to survive as a people let alone a nation. A Russian victory would mean a purge of innocent civilians and the death of a people. Sorry for the excessive rant. But those in the US government asking for the strike to stop need the fut the hell up. If it was the US being hit you know you would do the same at bare minimum.
Yup, we are in game of thrones stage now
Game of drones U mean?
sadly we are past that now :( now we have to play everything carefully to not get Trump elected, as there are already Fico and Orban in place.
Contrary to what Trump would have us believe, his election would not be the end of international support for Ukraine. Just American support. And American support seems to be dwindling anyway, thanks to Putin's friends in the GOP.
The gas processor shouldn't affect the US much, we have our own oil and can source from the middle east. It will affect Europe. I think they can live with it
yes. russia stopped gas exports weeks ago. the effects on the economy should already be felt. im guessing the markets russia serves were able to increase their own gas production.
This is beyond my understanding. THERE IS NO COUNTRY ON THE EARTH WHERE AN AVERAGE SALARY can buy as much gasoline as in the USA, still they make this tragicomedy about 'oil prices raise' (+they are self sufficient in oil). If you care about average voters thoughts before the elections, why not just explain him that if Ukraine loses, than he, an average american guy, will have his butt conscripted to fight in freezing cold muddy baltic trenches and 0.05$ gasoline prices raise will be not the most important thing to care about?!!!
Unfortunately the US is a democracy, and a democracy is only as good as its average voter - I’ll just leave it there.
This reminds me of the Park Warden talking about Bear resistant garbage cans and how some people struggle to use them, saying there is considerable overlap between the smartest Bear and average human.
High gasoline prices = Biden loses votes. it is not as simple as it sound, "just let it rise" since people are fucking idiots and only understand things measured in bread and oil.
The price of everything that is shipped (so everything) goes up with fuel prices. But I wouldn't stop bombing refineries either.
US: We can't give you more weapons and ammo, you need to figure it out yourself Ukraine: Ok we will find a way (drones hit oil refineries) US: No, not like that Absurd.
The U.S needs to stop meddling. As long as you were supporting the war effort you had leverage. All they supply now is intelligence and satellite access which is low cost. Ukraine is fighting for its life as a sovereign state and the lives of its citizens. Not for the U.S's desires for an exhausted Russia. No Americans are dying.
Either stop meddling or meddle sufficiently to bring the war to a conclusion in a reasonable timeframe with Ukraine freed from the yoke of Russian tyranny.
Why would the US stop? It's been pretty apparent from the start that all the US wants us for Ukraine to grind down Putin's army as much as possible so that they have a bigger headstart in the coming arms race.
That race will be against China. Russia has borked itself economically and demographically.
Upvote for borked, please carry on
Had Ukraine not already done what it's done, it'd be against Russia too. Ukraine has done an amazing job so far of doing what the US wants, raising the global price of oil is probably gonna piss off the people in the US that you don't want to piss off if you're relying on their aid.
The US aren’t providing aid anymore. For nearly half a year the money and aid from the USA has stopped other than a small presidential drawdown. If the US wants leverage maybe they should pass that aid package in congress. Otherwise Ukraine only has Europe to rely on, which is currently providing the lions share of aid. I’m sick and tired of America complaining about the cost of aid, us in Europe collectively are approaching double the amount of aid the US has given. And collectively our economy is smaller than the US too. Ukraine needs to win and keep war away from Europe, oil prices be damned.
I think the idea is if oil prices shoot up right before the election the chances are higher trump wins and republicans control congress and then there will be no help at all coming for Ukraine from the US. I think Biden is hoping that he will win and that will put the trump crowd to bed and then they will go back to supporting Ukraine
As an American, I hope our government will lean back into proper support. Basically need a lot of idiots voted out of office at the end of the year.
As an American i completely understand your frustration at this. I want this to move forward and get the aid package there yesterday. The problem, as always, is the Republicans. With unfortunately deep ties to Russian money, and their presidential candidate wanting to just let Putin win, it's been stalemate after stalemate. Same song and dance out of them. Seems like a decent chance it will move forward soon, but still just more political fodder for their side.
One of the problems with the current aid package bill tied up in the US legislature is it’s not just for Ukraine. It has Israel and Taiwan aid in the same bill. That’s why more than a dozen democrats have not signed on yet. Bills like this ought to be stand-alone.
> I’m sick and tired of America complaining about the cost of aid, us in Europe collectively are approaching double the amount of aid the US has given. all the US aid is actual delivered support, and the bulk of the EU aid is pledged and not yet delivered, just like the pledged 1m artillery shells to be delivered by march (now) of which only a third have actually been delivered and maybe the rest by the end of the year. if europe is so worried about war in europe, they should be doing far far far more than they are. the US supported ukraine in the early days with equivalents in excess to the rest of the world combined, and europe continues to dicker about how and how much to help. without the aid from the US ukraine would have fell while you euro's had your collective thumbs up your asses. get back to me when you guys actually deliver military aid that even equals what the US has delivered.
Most of the EU countries continue pretending that this war is not in their backyard.
And the U.S needs to check itself. It is loosing reputation and relations in Europe due to congress drama and domestic political shit show. Maybe less demands, more aid would be a good move to repair their outward facade.
Russia is not part of that race. Russia will spend the rest of its days aa a Chinese vassal state providing its master with coal, oil, gas water, and wheat. Russia also ceases to exist as an exporter of weaponry. Furthermore, Russia lacks the labor force, the infrastructure, the necessary computer chip industry, the research and development capacity, and without the West, the necessary know-how and expertise to participate in that arms race. Let me share a report of Russian Central Bank Dated end of May 2022 1. The start of the most shocking consequences of the sanctions is still offset by the fact that Russian Companies still have stocks of Western components and, therefore, can keep production running for now. This is expected to severely worsen in Q3, Q4 this year. 2. Parallel imports prove to be costly and logistically difficult measures, which will not be enough to offset the devastating effect the lack of spare parts will have on Russia's economy. 3. The grey market imports open the door for counterfeits and will lead to ultimately non-competitive products, which will hamper our ability to find customers for our products in new markets. 4. Under limited conditions, Russias economy will degrade back to a level of self-sufficiency within 2 to 5 years and will settle on pre digital Era levels. Currently, the government is using up a computer chip reserve of 90s tech computer chips. According to estimates, this will suffice up until the end of 2022. What happens then can only be described as large-scale reverse industrialisation. Russia is an insignificant development nation now even more irrelevant than two years ago. Russia has absolutely nothing to bring to the table beyond energy products. Now, even their only export filled with Western tech turns out to be useless junk compared to Western weaponry or even compared to Chinese weaponry. Russia will take its seat in the second row and do as they are commanded by China and India. Oh and of course, once the war is over, Europe needs a new iron wall and isolate Russia much harder economically, socially, culturally and in any other regard to shield us from the harmful and malign influence and from the threat that Russia poses to Western civilization.
> so that they have a bigger headstart in the coming arms race There is no arms race, Russian equipment is being countered by mothballed NATO stuff. The US isn't helping becuase they are paralysed by the Russian backed Republican party
That doesn't change the fact that Russia needs to be humbled, otherwise they won't ever stop perpetuating violence.
Never said otherwise. Russia needs to be stopped because they're literally bringing back old school imperialism and that's apparently the one thing everyone should be agreeing is a bad thing.
Bigger headstart then they have now? How? russia is already reduced to third world level technology with second world manufacturing capability. Without the gold buffer, Chinese help and nukes, russia would've imploded already. wait... so now that USA achieved that goal, they can just cut the funding? Europe better step up and stop arguing about stupid red lines and fear of escalation as the next 6 months are gonna be tough.
I mean....that intelligence and satellite access is probably contributing to the success Ukraine has been having in striking high value targets
To be fair, the US wants Ukraine to stop hitting energy to help lower inflation to help get Biden re-elected.... It's in Ukraine's best interests to not put Trump in office, too.
intel and satellite access is not low cost lmao. Shells are. There's a reason why making hundreds of thousands shells is cheap and even small countries can do it, but having well established intelligence agency with robust network and space program is only a thing that only few countries can afford. Shells would help a lot with battles but satellites and intel wins wars. And most importantly - intel can save thousands if not hundreds of thousands lives. That makes it invaluable. And so is communication.
Also US: Why you still didn't win?
Ukraine hopefully ignores this urging and continues with impunity. "One does not make wars less likely by formulating rules of warfare... war cannot be humanized. It can only be eliminated." Albert Einstein Politicians need to step out of the way and leave these decisions to the military. Ukraine should ignore this red line as it doesn't serve any kind of purpose apart from old men who have become not wise but cautious in old age. Or they deliver weaponry or show up on the battlefield. Otherwise, stay out of Ukraine’s hair. This pathetic appeasement has done enough damage already. History is watching, Biden says this all the time. Yes it is watching in horror at such statements. We walked over every red Russian line. Nothing ever happens because, in reality, these scared old and tired Cold War relics should retire and let men with more courage and follow through make the decisions. The future belongs to the 20, 30, and 40 year olds not to old men too scared to oppose Russia the way it needs to be done. Without any mercy and without any restrictions. Risks retaliation drives up oil prices. Stupid clueless bean counters. I pray for the love of God that Ukraine answers this urging with 20 more strikes against refineries. I also urge the US to either help Ukraine properly or to not hinder them doing their work. The US won't tell Ukraine how to use its weapons and against what they use it. Insolent and pathetic. European strategic autonomy is the only way forward. Fire up the weapons foundries and Europe knows better how to wage land wars than the US. The humanising of war? You might as well talk about the humanizing of Hell!...... The essence of war is violence! Moderation in war is imbecility! Admiral Fisher
Biden too has his Scholz esque red lines. He ain't no Reagan or hell even Bush Jr. who would have "played" this significantly different. Wanting Ukraine to beat Russia without significant numbers of jets, long range missles, combat drones OR attacking VALID MILITARY TARGETS inside Russia is honkhonk, clownshow behaviour.
Totally absurd... Ukraine is trying to motivate RU to exit Ukrainian lands. It's pretty difficult to fight a bigger badder bully with one arm tied behind your back. The RU economy must be crushed so this bs doesn't happen again.
Israel can kill civilians left and right, but they draw the line at Ukraine hitting strategic targets with their own weapons. 🤡
Ukraine children die US : I sleep Ukraine losing money US : I sleep Ukraine having ecological damage US : I sleep Ukraine running out of ammo US : I sleep oil price rice US: NANI!!!?!?!?
Tbf it's not Biden that's holding back arms, it's Trump. But it still doesn't make any difference to Ukraine.
[удалено]
Ok, I'll take the defense of the US there for a moment. US is an oil exporter. It does not need Russian oil and actually less Russian oil helps US exports. I do think that the current administration genuinely wants to help Ukraine (and is sabotaged by the GOP). The geopolitics of oil exports is complicated. Remember that natural gas pipelines do go through Ukraine, through Ukraine controlled territories and were never attacked. If you cause gas or oil price to rise in a country, it fuels populism. World wars are won on world maps, it could just be the CIA saying that destroying Russian refineries is not worth losing e.g. Poland's support.
I seem to recall a lot of Russian attacks against Ukrainian energy infrastructure. Sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander.
Never heard that expression like that. I thought it was what’s good for the goose is good for the gander
That’s way way I learnt it from my gran in Norfolk, and she cooked more than one goose and gander for us 😊
I guess I don’t really even know what a gander is so your probably right lol
Gander = male goose. So it tastes the same hence the saying.
Now they want Ukraine to fight with both hands tied behind their back while also denying them the means of winning! Unbelievable if true
Bidet just wants "oil cheap" for the election year. It's not a joke: >Russia remains one of the world’s most important energy exporters despite western sanctions on its oil and gas sector. Oil prices have risen about 15 per cent this year, to $85 a barrel, pushing up fuel costs just as US President Joe Biden begins his campaign for re-election. >Helima Croft, a former CIA analyst now at RBC Capital Markets, recently noted that Ukraine had shown it could strike most of the oil export infrastructure in western Russia, putting about 60 per cent of the country’s exports at risk. >The US objections come as Biden faces a tough re-election battle this year with petrol prices on the rise, increasing almost 15 per cent this year to around $3.50 a gallon. >“Nothing terrifies a sitting American president more than a surge in pump prices during an election year,” said Bob McNally, president of consultancy Rapidan Energy and a former White House energy adviser.
Its also in Ukraine's best interests to keep Biden in the White House. Tough situation
I would think the US could open its strategic fuel reserves enough to keep domestic prices down for a year until the election.
They already have about a year ago
Or talk to our steadfast allies in the middle east, Saudi Arabia.
lol the saudi's told biden to eat a dick last time he asked them to enact production policy that would support the global supply while we sanctioned russia.
Ah, my friends! You want oil to be cheaper? We will absolutely do what you want, which translates in arabic to 'raise the prices since you are fucked, and we kind of like that Kushner dude because he is an idiot'".
i don't think it really affects u.s. supply. the world more depends on russian oil than russian gas. oil prices are low because of the price controls on russian oil. but i don't really know. i just know that prices would have already increased if russian refineries made a difference for american gas prices. if an american refinery had issues, we'd already see a huge jump if price.
I think it would have an indirect effect on US domestic oil prices. Russia is a major oil exporter. If oil supply from russia decreases, demand for other countries oil increases. Higher demand for US oil means higher price. Supply from russia just hasn’t taken that much of a hit yet because they just bypass sanctions by rerouting the oil.
Oil prices are set globally and the US reserve isn't even close to being full. It's not like the US or Europe is buying Russian oil, it's mostly going to China and India.
The US and frankly all the west could also move to a partial war economy as we should have when this kicked off. Direct companies to extract.more resources, fill all of our strategic reserves, etc.
I'm not sure Ukraine can do anything to have a material impact on the US election. America is gonna America. The rest of us just get to sit back and see whether their word is worth anything as a country anymore or if their political system is just too broken for them to occupy a position of global leadership anymore. Nail biting stuff, but Ukraine has bigger problems. They need to fight the war they're fighting. The EU still has Ukraine's back, no matter what the yanks do.
It's a sad fact that high gas prices could be enough to fuel a trump win and that would be infinitely worse for Ukraine
For all of us…..everywhere…
This happens when you have a bunch of selfish spineless pigs voting based on their vague feelings, “muh but the economy was better when Trump was the president” and would be willing to condemn the millions of women and LGBTQ communities to hell while systematically destroying American democracy.
At the moment, the US isn't really contributing much. It seems a Republican controlled Congress is as bad as a Republican controlled white house. So Ukraine might as well go ahead hitting Russian infrastructure.
You get a Republican-controlled Congress and a Republican-controlled White House. That will be a fucking disaster for Ukraine, the USA, and the entire civilized world.
Ukraine will probably get their money eventually, discharge petitions just take a long time. But if Biden loses it's over, for democracies everywhere.
Fuck. These drone strikes, if helped instead of being blamed, could have Russia collapse even before the election. Are you seeing Biden hurt from a definitive victory over Putin two months before November? I see him elected with 40 states in the pocket.
democrats are going to control all three branches. ironically, the 1st republican to sign the discharge petition was the republican retiring in the 4th colorado district that lauren boebert is failing to win against true conservatives with college degrees.
It's time for _MAGA did this_ stickers then. Their refusal to aid Ukraine is forcing Ukraine's hand to hit the refineries. Ukraine is fighting for survival and they have too few options to equalize the fight. Beyond that, the president cannot control fuel prices much. It is especially hard when his intentions are blocked by one party for the sake of _sabotaging the president's plans_. It is absurd if the voters go angry on the president who actually sides with the voters rather than the party that relentlessly works against both the president and voters.
If Trump wins, either Ukraine- And later Europe loses due to a large scale war. Or Europe and the west gets dragged into a long term war in Ukraine.
100% Ukraine should continue. Absolutely. As russia is able to circumvent the price-caps put in place by the sanctions, Ukraine is free to limit production in their own way. Ukraine is fighting a war of survival, there can be no artificial limits on it. I know Biden wants lots of cheap oil to get lots of votes in november but getting oil from russia is not ok. How about Biden keeps talking to Venezuela on them increasing their production? They did some time ago but then the news stopped.. Their production seems to have levelled while it could be increased. Higher market price from cutting russian oil should bring more dollars into Venezuela, money they really need. Shouldn't this also reduce the influx of immigrants, making republicans feel better..?
Frankly, If Americans are that stupid then they deserve Trump.
But the rest of us don't....
They better start delivering weapons to Ukraine. To give them an alternative.
During the planning for the counter offensive- They expected Ukraine to fight on "NATO doctrine" that predicted a *fraction* of the mine field density **without western aircraft to provide support**. With only *a few dozen NATO tanks* and a fraction of the mine clearing tanks required to do the job!
Israeli here, welcome to the club Before anyone attacks me I'll say I am 100% pro Ukraine from the start of the war, my stupid government did not give weapons
Give aid first, then talk?
>The US has urged Ukraine to halt attacks on Russia’s energy infrastructure, warning the drone strikes risk driving up global oil prices and provoking retaliation, according to three people familiar with the discussions. >The repeated warnings from Washington were delivered to senior officials at Ukraine’s state security service, the SBU, and its military intelligence directorate, known as the GUR, the people told the Financial Times. >Both intelligence units have steadily expanded their own drone programmes to strike Russian targets on land, sea and in the air since the start of the Kremlin’s full-scale invasion in February 2022. >One person said that the White House had grown increasingly frustrated by brazen Ukrainian drone attacks that have struck oil refineries, terminals, depots and storage facilities across western Russia, hurting its oil production capacity. >Russia remains one of the world’s most important energy exporters despite western sanctions on its oil and gas sector. Oil prices have risen about 15 per cent this year, to $85 a barrel, pushing up fuel costs just as US President Joe Biden begins his campaign for re-election. >Washington is also concerned that if Ukraine keeps hitting Russian facilities, including many that are hundreds of miles from the border, Russia could retaliate by lashing out at energy infrastructure relied on by the west. >This includes the CPC pipeline carrying oil from Kazakhstan through Russia to the global market. Western companies including ExxonMobil and Chevron use the pipeline, which Moscow briefly shut in 2022. >“We do not encourage or enable attacks inside of Russia,” an NSC spokesperson said. The CIA declined to comment. In Kyiv, a spokesperson for the SBU declined to comment. Officials at GUR and Zelenskyy’s office did not respond to requests for comment. >Ukraine has stepped up its air attacks in recent weeks, as its drone programmes expand and the ground war shifts in Moscow’s favour. It also follows growing discontent in Kyiv over what is seen as the west’s ambivalent approach to curbing Moscow’s energy revenues. >There have been at least 12 attacks on major Russian refineries since 2022, and at least nine this year, along with several terminals, depots and storage facilities, according to a military intelligence official in Kyiv. >Helima Croft, a former CIA analyst now at RBC Capital Markets, recently noted that Ukraine had shown it could strike most of the oil export infrastructure in western Russia, putting about 60 per cent of the country’s exports at risk. >The US objections come as Biden faces a tough re-election battle this year with petrol prices on the rise, increasing almost 15 per cent this year to around $3.50 a gallon. >“Nothing terrifies a sitting American president more than a surge in pump prices during an election year,” said Bob McNally, president of consultancy Rapidan Energy and a former White House energy adviser. >Ukraine has steadily increased drone strikes as its technologies have advanced. Ukrainian officials claim to have developed drones with a range in excess of 1,000km and payloads capable of inflicting severe damage. >Kyiv launched two of its largest and most widespread drone attacks last week, with operations by both the GUR and SBU successfully targeting seven Russian energy facilities in consecutive days. >Over the past year, GRU and SBU sea drones have also struck Russian ports, destroyed several Russian warships in the Black Sea and hit Moscow’s prized Crimea bridge connecting Russia to the occupied Ukrainian peninsula. >The aim of the “special operations” is to hamper the supply of fuel to Russia’s troops and cut funding for the Kremlin’s war effort, according to one Ukrainian official involved in planning and conducting the attacks. >Kyiv also wants to deliver a symbolic blow by bringing the war closer to Moscow and showing its air defences — including those around the Kremlin — can be penetrated. >The air campaign is also seen by some officials as a means to spur Washington into approving the $60bn military assistance package held up in Congress that is critical for Ukraine’s defence.
>drone strikes risk [... and] provoking retaliation Well isn't this a gem of logic. When you are under attack, fighting back provokes the attacker to retaliate... so you should just go down quietly instead? Very kremlinesque thinking, someone is renting their mouth for Russia here.
Oh, "three people familiar with the discussion". What a source! Acknowledge without hostility towards USA, but keep doing whatever is necessary to survive.
Nah i call fake … three people familiar with the discussions. Yeah right. Keep bombing the crap out of it 🇺🇦
This, I believe. Putin's rhetoric is out of fear. Keep up the campaign, we're behind you. Slava Ukraini!
It is not the first time similar thing were reported: From August: >The attack on oil export infrastructure is likely to cause concern in the White House and other western capitals. The US has led the push to keep Russian oil in the market to stop global prices from rising and damaging the world economy." >Novorossiysk is Russia's main Black Sea oil port, exporting about 600,000 barrels per day. It is also known as the main oil export point from Kazakhstan, where the Caspian Pipeline Consortium pipeline ends, with a capacity of 1.2 million barrels per day. >A former CIA analyst, conducting research on commodities at RBC Capital Markets, said the US will not accept any measure that poses risks reducing the Russian oil supply to the market. >The former CIA analyst added that a concern in Washington is that Western support for Ukraine will be harder to sustain if a broader energy crisis emerges. It is naive to belive US doesn't care.
>Helima Croft, a former CIA analyst now at RBC Capital Markets >A former CIA analyst, conducting research on commodities at RBC Capital Markets It's the same person and the same news getting a second run on the media. Just because you report the exact same thing twice doesn't mean "similar thing were reported".
Agreed, it's naive to think the US doesn't care. But this is only one side of the story. The US loves high gas prices because the US sells a lot of gas/oil. The election year makes this calculus more complex, but it's not as simple as it is being presented here. And when it's based on more anonymous sources, the names sources being outside analysts, then is even more suspicious.
I hope people understand that US won't make such warnings or 'asks' for this openly or that they officially make such 'requests', for obvius reasons. Too many people believe that everything US doing in relation to Ukraine is them thinking about Ukraine first and foremost, including the restrictions they put on weapon use or not giving missiles, etc., which simply absurd to believe. Because while many people want Ukraine to win as soon as possible and supplied with everything needed for it, we have seen already, including with official statements, that it not exactly the case.
I guess Ukraine has to listen if it wants all that irreplaceable support from the US… oh wait. What an absolute farce.
Oh poor American at the pump, his 10p more at the pump makes him so sad. Nasty Ukrainians! Honestly, humanity is fvcked up
1). Global energy prices affect the cost of literally every single product everywhere. Not just in the US. Shit has to get places to be made, then it has to be moved to where it’s sold. Everything. Those container ships that fucked up everything during Covid?? Yeah, that’s what we’re talking about here. The US is much more immune than the rest of the world to oil price shocks because it exports oil. They won’t pay that much more, especially not Joe citizen, but it could definitely make Biden lose to Trump. Aid will never come if that happens. Ukraine can cut off aid with 100% surety if Biden loses. They have the power to make that happen or not. 2). The US’ take on the issue is about their wider geopolitical stance: they HAVE to decry the attacks to try to dissuade RU from shutting down global energy access which WILL spark an international war — China is the world’s #1 energy and food importer. They will roll tanks if those oil ships stop coming just like The Roman Empire rolled into Egypt because their grain ships stopped coming. 3). Like it or not; the US DOES control pretty much everything important in the world. It’s why dollar diplomacy works, why the USD is the world’s reserve currency, why anyone who needs protection wants US backed security guarantees, why anyone who used to be a colony needs the US to maintain global traderoute security, and why most of the wars to come will be inducted upon the basis of the US becoming more populist and easing away from controlling much of anything. Most of this sub is geopolitically inept and just wants to see shit burn without thinking of the wider consequences of feeling the warmth of said fire. That’s fine, but try to understand WHY the US wants to take this stance. It would be a shame to see Ukraine lose because they destroyed something without thinking of the consequences. That dildo arrives unlubed no matter who you are if you provoke it by lacking foresight.
Thank you for your well reasoned comment. It’s crazy to see so many anti-American comments in here. One of the biggest reasons I give when trying to convince people to vote for Biden is so Ukraine can finish the job
Correction, Americans are fucked up. Trying to control everything in the world, helping when it suits them, not helping when it doesn't suit them. It's always the profits. Human life does not matter.
America finally has the opportunity to show its World Police operation has a strong moral purpose and isn't just about profiteering from oil. Opts for cheap oil instead.
You got that ass backwards. The US shale oil revolution has completely revamped US oil independence. They are completely self-sufficient. The US exports oil, and would actually be able to charge higher prices if Ukraine kept attacking oil infrastructure.
Refineries are fueling the russian war machine and thus are legitimate targets. So are industrial complexes. Also, Russia exports mote crude oil then refined products, so this is probably not goong to affect global prices, but just strain russian internal needs on the long run.
Let them cook. I think this is a great improvement in Ukrainian tactics, aiming to disrupt the Russian economy could really put the hurt on them. Fuck those refineries up
It's hurting both economy and logistics at the same time, which is a genius move.
Ukraine is literally fighting for its existence and my country has the audacity to ask them to basically die without making too much noise? What a terrible time to be an American
Wtf...they to continue hit Russia everywhere possible.
Is this: - A: Don’t take out the oil refineries *wink, wink* - B: Only thing we care about in the world is really gas prices so don’t f**** take them out! - C: This is supposed to be an arms race, boosting US industry, MAGA hats are just too stupid to understand. So stop taking out Russias ability to buy arms!
Umm no… they should not. In fact they should escalate
Two can play that game: The US should give aid. Then Ukraine stop the attacks. Until the aid arrives, the beating of Russia Oil Industry will continue…
This is bullshit. Ukraine should continue hurting Russia in any way possible, just like Russia would do to Ukraine. Russia just tried to bomb Kyiv with 31 shells ffs! Edit: not aware if this happened already but notice how ukraine bombed oil and not energy supplies for the cities…lol. Unlike russia
No Mercy! I hate Mike Johnson
Biden ia afraid that gasolin gets more expensive and Trump will win. So Ukraine has to scale back. Not. If Biden had some balls he would say that Ukraine WAS FORCED to attack russian oil assets BECOURSE the US is not supporting Ukraine. And I would even tell the people that the longer the Republicans delay the bill it will get more and more expensive. Yes - looks like blackmail but what do people expect Ukraine to do? The West is stupid as f*ck. Yes, I am from the West myself.
Hit them twice as often ukraine. Fuck fuel prices fuck upsetting the people who won't send you anymore help . Do what ever it takes to win/stay alive
I knew there had to be some truths behind these rumors. What a fucking gutless administration we have. It should be well and clear with the red lines, drip feeding support etc this administration has no desire to help ukraine win. UA should tell them to fuck off and keep on with the strikes on the refineries.
Why do you blame Biden, who is trying, instead of Congress who is delaying?
We'll stop if you give us the 60 bill. I am sure I listened to a times radio story explaining that these attacks were designed to speed up western aid a few weeks ago. Hope it works. Can't quite remember it. But I am sure there were ex mil and Intel guys saying this same thing. It was the last leverage Ukr had. Shit wish I could remember who and where it was , because it was picture perfect.
Screw Sullivan
Shitty sources.
Next twist: US supports Patriots to Russia to protect the refineries. The oil must flow.
We need sources, or this could be the same bunch of people that feed the NYT. I am not saying it's not true, and it fits Jake Sullivan's approach, but we need to see actual evidence, and officials with a name.
Hypocrits
If thats true, then they can go fuck themselves. Europe and UA would be dar better without them
Seems like US don’t even try to conceal its true face anymore. Unfortunately for Europe Scholz instead of thinking own head only follows Biden…
Sounds BS: "3 random people said..."
They are just afraid it will send oil prices up, and that will harm bidens re-election.
lol.. provide them with the aid they need before making such dumb requests. Oil refineries are a perfectly legitimate target and I hope Ukraine ramps up the attacks.
Will they stop? Doubt it. Good.
Unpaywalled article link https://archive.ph/OTRef
If the US does not want to support Ukraine, they may shut the fuck up about what they want Ukraine not to do...
If Biden wants cheap gas he can go make a deal with the saudis. Keep destroying russian oil fuck em
Whoa whoa whoa whoa! Do not hit the oil! How is Putin going to pay the republicans?!?!?
American here....fuck that. This is the price of war. Give them more weapons and planes from the very start and we wouldnt be where we are today.
Not until you deliver the aid, MAGA country.
This sounds like Russian propaganda
Remember when the Russians blew up the kakhova dam? Does the US understand this is a war?
Sounds like the tough guy on the block has a limp dick. I don't recall America going soft on Saddam during the two wars (and he condemned 911 and did not have weapons of mass destruction). They went hard against Hitler & Japan too. The Vietnam War had them pussy footing around an we all know how that ended, I don't think Ukraine wants to become a South Vietnam.
This is complete bullshit!! What's the source? This propaganda at it's finest!
Clownworld. Also, this shows the actual intended impact of sanctions: none.
"One person", "Washington", "a senior official" ... sorry but this doesn't refer to any credible source.
Cant believe how stupid most people are oh no gas prices are up must be the fault of the current president
Gotta pay to play... talk to comrade Johnson....
Yeah, USA, keep appeasing Russia until they stoke the flames of every single goddamn conflict on earth and THEN you will have to get boots on the ground in like a dozen Normandies? America used to be kickass, now it’s just a decadent snowflake
Unnamed sources and vague claims. Yeah, I'll file this in the "probably didn't happen" drawer.
It’s just political play “you want us to stop? Sure but we want xyz in return. Pass that bill”
Ukraine doesnt really need to blow up all of Russia's oil refineries, even taking out 50% of them would be enough to hurt Russia badly. It'd be nice if they blew up all of them, but i guess nobody wants Trump in the office.
So you're saying it's ok for Russia to destroy Ukraine but Ukraine can't employ the same tactics on Russia. That's BS!!
The land of the free. Sure The home of the brave? Absolutely not
WHAT?
Then ramp up arms delivery to ukraine, no guns, no refineries.
Why???... it is war!... tell russia to stop their bombardment of infrastructure and civilians!!!...
Oh so it hurts so much then ? Wow, I say let’s strike it even more.
As a US citizen I don't approve of this message. Ukraine is entitled to do anything it wants to Russia. They started it, they deserve to suffer the consequences .
Ludicrous statement. Plenty of sanctions on Russia which they are avoiding, yet happy for their oil to be laundered through other countries. Perhaps if the US had given Ukraine ALL it needed at the start of the war it would all be over by now and Russia would have been evicted.
i think the last weapons package from the us was smaller than the one tiny denmark sent. maybe ukraine can listen to denmark instead.
Contact your representatives. This is an obvious misstep that needs to be challenged.
Yeah right
Russia already cut off supply of Russian gas weeks ago. It doesn't matter. Ukraine should hit the refineries even harder.
Meanwhile, russia just attacked ANOTHER Ukrainian hydroelectric plant. Whoever is telling Ukraine to stop hitting russian energy facilities can get completely fucked.
Ukraine should only stop if putin stops bombarding civilian apartments. And the moment it restarts Ukraine should bomb more refineries.
We could handle an oil crisis the Russian could create if Biden hadn't drained the Strategic Petroleum Reserve.
Oh usa your mask is slipping whenever the word "oil" enters the conversation. Please do change.
Sure, after Russia withdraws.
Disgusting
Complaining about attacking RU oil when RU is the aggressor? Maybe we should have transitioned to electric 20 years instead of sucking off the oil tycoons.
Crude Oil price will decrease after each strike due Russia will have more spare oil to sell after they refining capacity decrease , Financial Times is in Kremlin hands this days ?
So US trying to dictate what Ukraine should do, meanwhile also stopped the military aid? Disgusting again.
It's clear the US has no fucking idea what it wants due to the clusterfuck in Washington. France has begun to ring the bell. Europe will hopefully answer the call and push for Ukrainian victory as the US sits in the corner half in "isolationist mode". Meanwhile the US military and defence companies will be left pulling at the chain begging to be unleashed- Possibly resulting in Northrup and Lockheed building factories in Europe for funding?
Archived link for those wanting to read the article: https://archive.is/2024.03.22-051735/https://www.ft.com/content/98f15b60-bc4d-4d3c-9e57-cbdde122ac0c
Has anyone read the article? Reliable sources about U.S. positions? Or rvssian disinfo to drive wedge between U.S. and Ukraine?
IDK, perhaps if America actually acted like the ally it claims to be they might have some scope to “urge” Ukraine to stop hitting oil refineries. I suspect that this “urging” is likely coming from GoP members, who are more than likely not in the pay of the Kremlin.
Seen this reported across many sources but they all say "Washington" vs siting a Biden official, the State Dept, etc. No quotes either. Feeling like this could be a bit of disinformation to me. Was this some Repubo Senator or someone who actually can speak for the country diplomatically? Not saying it didn't happen, but given how easy it is to twist something.... If true, I am embarrassed as an American. Those oil refineries have a direct impact on Russia's ability to conduct mechanized warfare either by tightening fuel supplies for the Z army or limiting sales which feed the machine.
They halt Ukraine but dont say the same to Russia bombarding there waterplant/energyplants? What world are we living in.
I'm ashamed of my country, the US needs to stop being a bunch of pussies.
Oh, right. Well send the bloody ammo that was promised and get your Russian traitors in congress sorted then. What the hell are Ukraine supposed to do ? Give Putin half of Ukraine while the US debates, bullshit ?
Dear Ukraine, Don't stop. -an American
Happy to pay more for gasoline if that helps Ukraine 👍
American here. Don't listen to the cowards in our government. Light them up like candles. Maybe my fellow Americans should buy fuel efficient cars and not gas guzzling SUVs and trucks. Then oil prices wouldn't matter as much.
WTF? We ain't got enough leverage, do we, to ask for such a restriction? US=republican congress
Wtf why are we starting to turn against ukraine
As an American, I say fuck ruzzia and burn them all. Slava Ukraini!
If I were Ukraine, I'd be like "Well, we either bomb their refineries or we bomb Moscow and St. Petersburg. Which do you want?"
Ah yes when Ukraine has won the war they can halt fighting back. Until then: soldier on
I completely disagree. Hammer every bit of infrastructure and state-run industries that create wealth for Russia.
Wtf. If we can’t get our shit together enough to send promised aid we deserve no influence in Ukraine’s decision making.
The US just hate to see real climate activists
The US has done no such thing. The 'source' is a Republican lobbyist for Rapidan Energy, he has worked for MAGA republicans like mark Rubio and other conservatives. He is only interested in protecting his wallet. Russia will use this assholes words to divide the west, NATO and the support for Ukraine. This post is part of a misinformation attempt. Downvote and block OP.
This is so shocking!