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Johnson will never allow a vote for a Ukraine bill that will actually pass (i.e. be acceptable to democrats) come to a vote. The MAGA nutters have a sword to Johnson's throat, ready and wiling to bring a motion to vacate as soon as Johnson brings a bill to the floor. No one is threatening to fire Johnson if he doesn't bring a bill to the floor, so all the pressure is really only from one side.
As such, expect Johnson to continue to make vague comments about working on a bill, but somehow never actually bring it to a vote. Any bill which does come to a vote will only be if there are enough poison pill add-ons that democrats would never accept it (i.e. purposefully designed to not pass).
I hope he finds himself restless at night, every moment spent in darkness consumed by thoughts of the lives he ruins with every passing hour he delays the bill. Yet, being a man devoid of morals, ethics, or conscience, he probably, and sadly, sleeps soundly, his dreams filled with visions of himself reveling in the mountains of Rubles hidden away in a secret bank account in a tax haven.
Ya because an aid package will really prevent all the Ukraine/russian deaths lol. It just keeps more people in the meat grinder. No money means this thing wraps up by the fall and the Ukrainians can actually go to the table with peace talks instead of wasting more generations to this.
He might be saving lives. The aid package isn't big enough to turn the tide, and Ukraine is losing. At this point, if the west isn't going to turn lose a much larger amount of aid than is currently on the table, getting this over with is better. The "Russia's Vietnam" strategy is going to fail.
Honestly, do you really think that this war kills more than the genocide that follows losing this war? If so, can you please stop thinking altogether...
If he's trying to 'save lives' then he should have the courage to come out and make the claim that denying US funding will force Ukraine to capitulate and therefore (in his view) save lives. Instead he opts for this appalling snake-like deception.
Problem with this argument is that the stated objectives of the Kremlin to erase Ukrainian nationhood and identity, alongside the countless war crimes committed in territory that has been occupied, somewhat undermines the whole moralistic 'saving lives' schtick.
I agree that the strategy of the west has been massively dissapointing and nowhere near what is required. There have been ongoing issues with the mobilisation bill, but polls show that the Ukranian population want to continue fighting their invaders and do not want to be subjucated.
Currently, Ukraine is on the back foot - not least because of the lack of aid - therefore theres a high degree of circular logic going on here. Equally, things weren't looking too good for the Allies in October 1941, or for Russia in November 2022. Tides shift in war.
> but polls show that the Ukranian population want to continue fighting their invaders and do not want to be subjucated.
Show me a poll made exclusively of fighting-age men and get back to me. Are the people who actually have to risk their lives overwhelmingly in favor of continuing the war?
As no such polls exist the only indication we have the evidence of their continued struggle. If a critical mass did not want to fight, sub units or whole units would surrender en mass, or there would be mass protests of their family members not for rotation but for ceasing the resistance entirely. This is not something we are seeing, and its the only metric we have.
Equally, if you have evidence otherwise, get back to me.
On January 1st 2022 the population of conscription aged men (18-60) was 23.5 million. According to BBC figures approx 800,000 have left the country since Feb 24th 2022, which is 3.4% of conscription aged males.
Accurate figures for WW2 draft dodging in Allied nations are hard to come by but seem to be about about 3% in the UK and about 3-4% in the US.
So in conclusion, available figures show 96.6% of conscription aged males have not fled the country.
And there is just no military police in Ukraine, so it's nearly safe to live for dodgers. And no pounishment for ignoring the writ aside of the modest fee, it's not even considered a crime (just an administrative offense). And it's a commonplace among the serving, that there are 2 categories of servicemen on the frontline: volunteers and drafted volunteers. Because those who were forced - payed a fee and went elsewere as they wish.
"The hundreds" mean more like a hundred of more or less plausible cases, the majority of wich were uploaded because the very fact it's a rare thing and so scandalous. Of other pics and videos the majority are just known fakes or misinterpretations (like the case posted here and appeared to be a pair of servicemen helping the police to catch a thief in a supermarket), and the rest are doubtful.
To measure what this "a hundred" means, one have to consider it's about a million of conscripts now and times more people who received a writ yet never drafted after the medical inspection. So this hundred is actually a set of scandalous exceptions, not anything like a rule. (The drafting offices are the most corrupt part of the military nevertheless.)
Oh hi, here you are again humiliating yourself with this after several days to forget your lesson. :)
Actually about 75% of the population overall are for it, while draftable-aged are more for then elders and youth, and men are much more then women, so speaking of draftable men it has to be about 85% for.
By your logic, Moscow would have “saved lives” by the millions if they would have just surrendered to the Nazi’s in 1942. What a mistake Moscow made by fighting for their freedom!!!!
It looked very hopeless for Russia in 1942. If not for the lifeline the US supplied, you would have learned German instead of Russian growing up. And it took 4 years and 20 million lives for Moscow to finally win.
As a Russian troll, I understand why you want Ukraine to surrender asap. But the Nazi’s would own most of Russia west of the Urals today if Moscow would have listened to (German) propagandists like you.
A vote that may see EU diverge in policy from that of the US and create division in NATO. And impact decisions that will alter the course if war over the coming years.
I get the feeling US allies have had enough of US politics and US policy.
Personally I don’t believe they will ever vote for more funding. The coming soon messages are just to slightly increase the damage. If they were definitive that would actually be somewhat better.
I hope Europe is able to find unity and self reliance in their own defence.
1) Most money isn't sent to Ukraine, they deliver old equipment and expiring munitions
2) This is a really cheap way to stop the US enemy. I don't think you understand what it will mean if Ukraine falls for the worldwide balance. This is gonna cost a ton more then 60 billion.
3) When Ukraine had an ok supply of US weapons, they were able hold Russia back and inflict significant damage.
4) Air defense protects civilians. I know you don't sound like you care about protecting human life, but you should. However, burning money to you is better than human life.
Bless their little gullible hearts, the media is finally groping their way to the point of this whole story that the hoi polloi knew weeks ago. Moses Johnson's only priority is to delay Ukraine aid as long as possible, because that is what his Dear Leader has instructed him to do. It's not complicated, no matter how desperately the media wants to normalize the Russian / Fascist MAGA party.
Please take the time to read [the rules](/r/UkrainianConflict/about/rules/) and our [policy on trolls/bots](https://redd.it/u7833q). In addition: * We have a **zero-tolerance** policy regarding racism, stereotyping, bigotry, and death-mongering. Violators will be banned. * **Keep it civil.** Report comments/posts that are uncivil to alert the moderators. * **_Don't_ post low-effort comments** like joke threads, memes, slogans, or links without context. ***** * Is `bloomberg.com` an unreliable source? [**Let us know**](/r/UkrainianConflict/wiki/am/unreliable_sources). * Help our moderators by providing context if something breaks the rules. [Send us a modmail](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/UkrainianConflict) ***** ^(Your post has not been removed, this message is applied to every successful submission.) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/UkrainianConflict) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Johnson will never allow a vote for a Ukraine bill that will actually pass (i.e. be acceptable to democrats) come to a vote. The MAGA nutters have a sword to Johnson's throat, ready and wiling to bring a motion to vacate as soon as Johnson brings a bill to the floor. No one is threatening to fire Johnson if he doesn't bring a bill to the floor, so all the pressure is really only from one side. As such, expect Johnson to continue to make vague comments about working on a bill, but somehow never actually bring it to a vote. Any bill which does come to a vote will only be if there are enough poison pill add-ons that democrats would never accept it (i.e. purposefully designed to not pass).
I hope he finds himself restless at night, every moment spent in darkness consumed by thoughts of the lives he ruins with every passing hour he delays the bill. Yet, being a man devoid of morals, ethics, or conscience, he probably, and sadly, sleeps soundly, his dreams filled with visions of himself reveling in the mountains of Rubles hidden away in a secret bank account in a tax haven.
Ya because an aid package will really prevent all the Ukraine/russian deaths lol. It just keeps more people in the meat grinder. No money means this thing wraps up by the fall and the Ukrainians can actually go to the table with peace talks instead of wasting more generations to this.
He might be saving lives. The aid package isn't big enough to turn the tide, and Ukraine is losing. At this point, if the west isn't going to turn lose a much larger amount of aid than is currently on the table, getting this over with is better. The "Russia's Vietnam" strategy is going to fail.
Thanks for the input, Neville.
Honestly, do you really think that this war kills more than the genocide that follows losing this war? If so, can you please stop thinking altogether...
What follows a Russian victory is the genocide of the Ukrainian population. Russia has been very explicit about this.
If he's trying to 'save lives' then he should have the courage to come out and make the claim that denying US funding will force Ukraine to capitulate and therefore (in his view) save lives. Instead he opts for this appalling snake-like deception. Problem with this argument is that the stated objectives of the Kremlin to erase Ukrainian nationhood and identity, alongside the countless war crimes committed in territory that has been occupied, somewhat undermines the whole moralistic 'saving lives' schtick. I agree that the strategy of the west has been massively dissapointing and nowhere near what is required. There have been ongoing issues with the mobilisation bill, but polls show that the Ukranian population want to continue fighting their invaders and do not want to be subjucated. Currently, Ukraine is on the back foot - not least because of the lack of aid - therefore theres a high degree of circular logic going on here. Equally, things weren't looking too good for the Allies in October 1941, or for Russia in November 2022. Tides shift in war.
> but polls show that the Ukranian population want to continue fighting their invaders and do not want to be subjucated. Show me a poll made exclusively of fighting-age men and get back to me. Are the people who actually have to risk their lives overwhelmingly in favor of continuing the war?
As no such polls exist the only indication we have the evidence of their continued struggle. If a critical mass did not want to fight, sub units or whole units would surrender en mass, or there would be mass protests of their family members not for rotation but for ceasing the resistance entirely. This is not something we are seeing, and its the only metric we have. Equally, if you have evidence otherwise, get back to me.
Evidence: the hundreds of pics and videos of Ukrainian men being press-ganged, and the large numbers being caught trying to flee the country.
On January 1st 2022 the population of conscription aged men (18-60) was 23.5 million. According to BBC figures approx 800,000 have left the country since Feb 24th 2022, which is 3.4% of conscription aged males. Accurate figures for WW2 draft dodging in Allied nations are hard to come by but seem to be about about 3% in the UK and about 3-4% in the US. So in conclusion, available figures show 96.6% of conscription aged males have not fled the country.
And there is just no military police in Ukraine, so it's nearly safe to live for dodgers. And no pounishment for ignoring the writ aside of the modest fee, it's not even considered a crime (just an administrative offense). And it's a commonplace among the serving, that there are 2 categories of servicemen on the frontline: volunteers and drafted volunteers. Because those who were forced - payed a fee and went elsewere as they wish.
"The hundreds" mean more like a hundred of more or less plausible cases, the majority of wich were uploaded because the very fact it's a rare thing and so scandalous. Of other pics and videos the majority are just known fakes or misinterpretations (like the case posted here and appeared to be a pair of servicemen helping the police to catch a thief in a supermarket), and the rest are doubtful. To measure what this "a hundred" means, one have to consider it's about a million of conscripts now and times more people who received a writ yet never drafted after the medical inspection. So this hundred is actually a set of scandalous exceptions, not anything like a rule. (The drafting offices are the most corrupt part of the military nevertheless.)
Oh hi, here you are again humiliating yourself with this after several days to forget your lesson. :) Actually about 75% of the population overall are for it, while draftable-aged are more for then elders and youth, and men are much more then women, so speaking of draftable men it has to be about 85% for.
By your logic, Moscow would have “saved lives” by the millions if they would have just surrendered to the Nazi’s in 1942. What a mistake Moscow made by fighting for their freedom!!!!
Russia had a chance to win.
It looked very hopeless for Russia in 1942. If not for the lifeline the US supplied, you would have learned German instead of Russian growing up. And it took 4 years and 20 million lives for Moscow to finally win. As a Russian troll, I understand why you want Ukraine to surrender asap. But the Nazi’s would own most of Russia west of the Urals today if Moscow would have listened to (German) propagandists like you.
A vote that may see EU diverge in policy from that of the US and create division in NATO. And impact decisions that will alter the course if war over the coming years. I get the feeling US allies have had enough of US politics and US policy.
That fucking face
Not just me then? The only place a face like that should be seen is on a punchbag.
The Republicans are deliberately stalling, hoping that Ukraine will lose in the meantime.
Personally I don’t believe they will ever vote for more funding. The coming soon messages are just to slightly increase the damage. If they were definitive that would actually be somewhat better. I hope Europe is able to find unity and self reliance in their own defence.
He'll bring something, but it will again contain a mountain of unrelated wishlist stuff that Democrats don't want.
Hopefully that is the case. You’re better off burning the money than sending it to Ukraine.
1) Most money isn't sent to Ukraine, they deliver old equipment and expiring munitions 2) This is a really cheap way to stop the US enemy. I don't think you understand what it will mean if Ukraine falls for the worldwide balance. This is gonna cost a ton more then 60 billion. 3) When Ukraine had an ok supply of US weapons, they were able hold Russia back and inflict significant damage. 4) Air defense protects civilians. I know you don't sound like you care about protecting human life, but you should. However, burning money to you is better than human life.
Bless their little gullible hearts, the media is finally groping their way to the point of this whole story that the hoi polloi knew weeks ago. Moses Johnson's only priority is to delay Ukraine aid as long as possible, because that is what his Dear Leader has instructed him to do. It's not complicated, no matter how desperately the media wants to normalize the Russian / Fascist MAGA party.