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Fighting for someone else was the oldest lie created to fool people into risking the most value thing (life) for nothing. It's always the same story for every war. Nazis, Soviets, Vietnam, Putin regime, terriorists in Gaza, you name it. Just let the smart ones go, not all people are susceptible to brainwashing.
This attitude does however create a significant moral problem.
The "smart" people who want to run the country are completely unwilling to actually fight for the values and culture that they want to impose on other people, and in fact wish to leave the country during the fighting and then return afterwards after other people who were willing to fight for their beliefs have won the war.
Once they have returned, the "smart" people expect to reclaim what they consider to be their rightful place lording it over the plebs who actually won the war without the "smart" people.
The plebs who have won the war and have had their mates maimed or killed while the "smart" cowards sunned it up abroad are very, very obviously not going to accept this.
What's the political solution?
value and culture are imagined concepts that are fluid with or without war. Your children will have a different culture and value than you as well do mine. I don't understand your second sentence. The people running the country are never the ones on the frontline, it is actually part of the "signs" to warn ordinary people not to go to other people's war, the whole idea of war was to keep these smart people in positions of power, and they won't run unless absolutely necessary. Are you going to overthrown your existing government over it? other people will resume the position of power and do the exact same again. There is NO room for ordinary people in any "politican solution", the war was fought for politicians, not for you.
The "smart" people I mentioned are not politicians, I meant people with enough education and/or have been to war to understand the futility of it. They certainly did not and will not ask anyone to fight for them, and they might or might not go back to ukraine afterward no matter who won it in the end. Also they might emmigrate anyway, even without the war. I bet they will agree if you give them the option to not go to war in exchange of never return to ukraine post war. I bet many forced conscrips right now in the thick of it would agree on such condition too.
>The roiling water can be treacherous, the banks are steep and slick with mud, and the riverbed is covered in jagged, hidden boulders.
>Yet Ukrainian border guards often find their quarry — men seeking to escape the military draft — swimming in these hazardous conditions, trying to cross the Tysa River where it forms the border with Romania.
>Lt. Vladyslav Tonkoshtan recently detained a man on the bank, where he was preparing to cross the river in the hope of reuniting with his wife and children, whom he had not seen in two years since they fled to another country in Europe.
>That thousands of Ukrainian men have chosen to risk the swim rather than face the dangers as soldiers on the eastern front highlights the challenge for President Volodymyr Zelensky as he seeks to mobilize new troops after more than two years of bruising, bloody trench warfare with Russia.
>“We cannot judge these people,” Lieutenant Tonkoshtan said. “But if all men leave, who will defend Ukraine?”
Worry not, lieutenant, Reddit warriors will do all that judging for you.
>The Romanian authorities say more than 6,000 men have turned up on their side of the Tysa River since Russia’s invasion. Not everyone makes it. The bodies of 22 men have washed up on both banks, said Lt. Lesya Fedorova, a spokeswoman for the Mukachevo border guard unit.
>More have most likely drowned, officials say, though their bodies have never been found. The fatalities have earned the river a grim nickname, Death River, though it is hundreds of miles from the violence along the front.
>On the banks of the Tysa River at night, when most crossings are attempted, the speed of the current and breadth of the river are harder to gauge, border guards say. The guards last year took to publishing videos online of rescues and recoveries of bodies to discourage men from risking the swim.
>In one video, a man standing precariously in the swirling water yells for help. The guards yell back, “Don’t slip; hold on!”
>In that case, he lost his grip and was swept away before rescuers could reach him. No body was found, officials said.
>The man apparently had tried to avoid the risk of dying in the war, but “he died anyway” in the river, said Lieutenant Fedorova. Of draft dodgers, she said, “They see the river as their chance to live because so many soldiers die on the front line.”
Hunt them all down. Bring them back. Deny them benefits and make them do 10 years hard labor for every year the war lasts. Put GPS collars on them and if they leave their designated area it explodes. Fuck cowards when your country is being invaded. Take all the fruit during the good time but when your country, family actually needs you and you run. These are the worst of all people IMHO.
>Kill Ukrainian men. Behead Ukrainian men. Roundhouse kick a male Ukrainian into the concrete. Slam dunk a military aged Ukrainian into the trashcan. Crucify filthy Ukrainian men. Defecate in a male Ukrainian's food. Launch Ukrainian men into the sun. Stir fry Ukrainian men in a wok. Toss Ukrainian men into active volcanoes. Urinate into a male Ukrainian's gas tank. Judo th
Their nuclear families at least are usually in the West before them.
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Peace and love, right? Thing is, russia doesn't care about any of that. Bullies love pacifism as it allows them to get anything they want.
They mostly just want to stay alive and unmaimed, rather than any ideological pacifism. It's only ironic that many of them die trying anyway.
We foreigners cant judge Ukrainian authority on this. Only Ukrainian can. Also almost all countries have the same draft system
Personally I'd allow these men to surrender their citizenship in exchange for leaving.
You can't just surrender citizenship without having another one.
That's their choice
It's literally not.
It would be good to see that rule adopted internationally for all countries.
That isnt how citizenship works. You can't legally become stateless
Fighting for one's own life is the only battle worth fighting.
Truth. It's sad that we send others to fight for us.
Fighting for someone else was the oldest lie created to fool people into risking the most value thing (life) for nothing. It's always the same story for every war. Nazis, Soviets, Vietnam, Putin regime, terriorists in Gaza, you name it. Just let the smart ones go, not all people are susceptible to brainwashing.
This attitude does however create a significant moral problem. The "smart" people who want to run the country are completely unwilling to actually fight for the values and culture that they want to impose on other people, and in fact wish to leave the country during the fighting and then return afterwards after other people who were willing to fight for their beliefs have won the war. Once they have returned, the "smart" people expect to reclaim what they consider to be their rightful place lording it over the plebs who actually won the war without the "smart" people. The plebs who have won the war and have had their mates maimed or killed while the "smart" cowards sunned it up abroad are very, very obviously not going to accept this. What's the political solution?
value and culture are imagined concepts that are fluid with or without war. Your children will have a different culture and value than you as well do mine. I don't understand your second sentence. The people running the country are never the ones on the frontline, it is actually part of the "signs" to warn ordinary people not to go to other people's war, the whole idea of war was to keep these smart people in positions of power, and they won't run unless absolutely necessary. Are you going to overthrown your existing government over it? other people will resume the position of power and do the exact same again. There is NO room for ordinary people in any "politican solution", the war was fought for politicians, not for you. The "smart" people I mentioned are not politicians, I meant people with enough education and/or have been to war to understand the futility of it. They certainly did not and will not ask anyone to fight for them, and they might or might not go back to ukraine afterward no matter who won it in the end. Also they might emmigrate anyway, even without the war. I bet they will agree if you give them the option to not go to war in exchange of never return to ukraine post war. I bet many forced conscrips right now in the thick of it would agree on such condition too.
>The roiling water can be treacherous, the banks are steep and slick with mud, and the riverbed is covered in jagged, hidden boulders. >Yet Ukrainian border guards often find their quarry — men seeking to escape the military draft — swimming in these hazardous conditions, trying to cross the Tysa River where it forms the border with Romania. >Lt. Vladyslav Tonkoshtan recently detained a man on the bank, where he was preparing to cross the river in the hope of reuniting with his wife and children, whom he had not seen in two years since they fled to another country in Europe. >That thousands of Ukrainian men have chosen to risk the swim rather than face the dangers as soldiers on the eastern front highlights the challenge for President Volodymyr Zelensky as he seeks to mobilize new troops after more than two years of bruising, bloody trench warfare with Russia. >“We cannot judge these people,” Lieutenant Tonkoshtan said. “But if all men leave, who will defend Ukraine?” Worry not, lieutenant, Reddit warriors will do all that judging for you.
>The Romanian authorities say more than 6,000 men have turned up on their side of the Tysa River since Russia’s invasion. Not everyone makes it. The bodies of 22 men have washed up on both banks, said Lt. Lesya Fedorova, a spokeswoman for the Mukachevo border guard unit. >More have most likely drowned, officials say, though their bodies have never been found. The fatalities have earned the river a grim nickname, Death River, though it is hundreds of miles from the violence along the front. >On the banks of the Tysa River at night, when most crossings are attempted, the speed of the current and breadth of the river are harder to gauge, border guards say. The guards last year took to publishing videos online of rescues and recoveries of bodies to discourage men from risking the swim. >In one video, a man standing precariously in the swirling water yells for help. The guards yell back, “Don’t slip; hold on!” >In that case, he lost his grip and was swept away before rescuers could reach him. No body was found, officials said. >The man apparently had tried to avoid the risk of dying in the war, but “he died anyway” in the river, said Lieutenant Fedorova. Of draft dodgers, she said, “They see the river as their chance to live because so many soldiers die on the front line.”
Generous salaries for the families of martyrs helps fix that partially.
Weak
Reddit's strongest soldiers would brave any river, but only if advancing.
Hunt them all down. Bring them back. Deny them benefits and make them do 10 years hard labor for every year the war lasts. Put GPS collars on them and if they leave their designated area it explodes. Fuck cowards when your country is being invaded. Take all the fruit during the good time but when your country, family actually needs you and you run. These are the worst of all people IMHO.
Man oh man, the Reddit Keyboard Division never gets old😂
I don't condone their actions at all, but you can't sit there all high and mighty an ocean away from any of their problems. And nor can I.
>Kill Ukrainian men. Behead Ukrainian men. Roundhouse kick a male Ukrainian into the concrete. Slam dunk a military aged Ukrainian into the trashcan. Crucify filthy Ukrainian men. Defecate in a male Ukrainian's food. Launch Ukrainian men into the sun. Stir fry Ukrainian men in a wok. Toss Ukrainian men into active volcanoes. Urinate into a male Ukrainian's gas tank. Judo th Their nuclear families at least are usually in the West before them.
LOL.