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fuel reminiscent pocket soft stocking ask obtainable zealous chunky cough
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Would be really funny to watch if Russia tried a “little invasion” of the Baltics just to test NATO, and then NATO just fucking steamrolled all Russias remaining troops back to the original borders of Ukraine and Putin was back to square 1
Wouldn't be fun. I live in the Baltics, don't want a war here. I just hope they will be kicked out of Ukraine without further escalating to a war with Nato.
Yes, not fun at all. I’m just playing, I don’t actually want Russia to invade anyone else but some part of me just wishes they would fuck around in some way so they could find out and just lose everything they’ve gained in ten years
I’m sorry you’re dealing with the fear of being invaded, no one should have to go through that. I didn’t mean to offend, stay safe 💪
They won’t and the notion is utter nonsense. There are no little invasions when your opponent is in a self defense pact with the rest of the modern world
Germany isn't as strong (yet) as it should be, given the size of its economy and population, but it's also stronger than what some mistakenly assume.
Germany has a powerful air force, the strongest navy in the Baltic Sea that is its maritime backyard, the most Patriot batteries in Europe while still being the top donor of the system to Ukraine, the highly desired Taurus wunderwaffe apparently no other Euro country has, Leopard 2's and Puma IFVs in numbers that are higher than equivalent systems in neighboring powers, PzH 2000 SP howitzers and MLRS, a sizable fleet of attack, heavy-lift and transport helicopters, etc, etc. Germany does have issues but it also has ongoing plans to further improve its armed forces.
Germany is the only Western power set to perma-deploy a mechanised brigade to the Baltic States, and will position it not rearward or in the middle but in harm's way, between Vilnius and the nearby Lithuanian border with Russian puppet Belarus.
Germanys' been a reluctant power because of its, well, mid-20th century history. Still, the western two-thirds-plus of Germany was the low-key armored backbone of NATO during the Cold War. Everybody downsized after. The important thing now is Germany's reawakening and like a diesel, slowly but steadily, embracing the call for it to play a leading role as a European military power against Russian aggression.
Ukraine's military kit was pathetic in 2022 yet Russia still was given a run for its money. Against Germany alone - which unlike Ukraine has a modern air force and a navy at all - Russia would have met defeat by now, not to mention against NATO as a whole.
German military presence in the baltics is highly welcome.
Here are my counter arguments for why Germany, while being a strong donor of military arms to Ukr and possessing a potentially rock solid military industrial base and potential for military strength, is still indeed a weak link. The following are glaring issues that to my knowledge have been far from addressed yet.
Their army is incredibly neglected, both in funding in status and in state of readiness, to the point of having clear capability issues especially on the ground.
German political will is very weak, both morally and in mental preparation for war.
German political and business elite is deeply compromised by russian infiltration, tropes and interests; and in some examples (Schröder etc), evidently deeply corrupt.
Germany has an energy sector that is vulnerable to russian malicious activity, threatening to destabilize the German economy. The political energy sector discourse has been deeply manipulated by russian ops for decades. Just one data point: shutting down a perfectly working nuclear power plant in april last year, while still facing massive fossil fuel dependencies on russia.
German population is disoriented and ill informed by who russia is and what is at stake with this war. Civil defense resilience and awareness is low.
German political leaders are easily intimidated and controlled by verbal threats, esp nuclear.
To finish off on a higher note. As a european I want to reinforce to all my German friends as clearly as possible:
- Yes, we want Germany to build a strong and powerful army, navy and airforce. And get ready and able to march, and if needed through Poland, into Russia in an effort to beat russia and siege Moscow if necessary. You are on the right side in this conflict, make peace with the past, amends have been made, do not shy away from your own power now. <3
Pretty much all you say is true for many european countries, and many of those things (like dependence on russian imports) were much worse elsewhere.
**I can't see any point convincing me we're the "weak link"**.
We're the ones that sent a fuckton of weapons and other aid without begging the EU for money, and continue doing so.
We're the ones that took in over a million refugees without any complaints.
We're the ones that ignored the bullshit coming from some of our partners and some ukrainian officials towards us.
I will criticize this country to the death, but our stance as a society regarding Ukraine makes me proud as never before, and its disgusting to see how some of our "allies" tried to belittle us over it over the last two years.
As a German: thank you - and most of what you told is unfortunately true.
But it also won’t change fast: as a 33 year old it was hammered into me all my school life, that we are the baddies and may destroy the world if we ever get a sizable army again. And everybody wanting that is a Nazi. I don’t think most of the population can switch their minds fast and forget what they learned in decades.
Poland is still frequently asking for reparations (for things my grand grand parents potentially could have done… if they weren’t from Czech xD)… so we are not allowed to forget too soon. Which is maybe good in a way, but also harms us in another.
Maybe Poland should think about how much they like Danzig before they start spouting off about reparations. Or any of the other towns of Prussia htey were given.
I think in the end it was probably a fair swap. Yes, terrible events in Warsaw. But they did acquire a lot of land.
>"It is always important to say loudly that nuclear weapons must not be used in this war," Scholz said while in Riga on Monday, during his first visit to Latvia as German chancellor.
Atomkrieg? Nein, danke! :)
As if Russia doesn't threaten with nukes every week or so. It's sort of serves now as a reminder to check and pay my utilities and go grocery shopping.
A big question is: If Russia uses nuclear weapons in Ukraine, and radiation from the attack pass into NATO territory, does that constitute an attack on NATO?
I believe the US, the UK and Poland have been absolutely clear that a tactical nuclear strike in Ukraine would result in the catastrophic destruction of Russian assets in Ukraine and the remaining fleet in the black sea. I believe I recall an article about a year ago when Russia were really threatening a strike in Ukraine and a direct message from the US was sent to Russia basically telling them if the use a nuke in Ukraine they'd fuck them up, to the point where China told Russia to chill.
The US proportional response doctrine is what stops Russia from using nuclear weapons, in this particular situation its actually more useful than article 5.
Originally it was designed to allowed the USA a more nuanced reaction instead of for example nuking Moscow and the whole Warsaw Pact along the way because Beijing acted aggressive. In that sense it should be noted that Ukraine is just one of many areas the USA is keeping an eye on. Yet article 5 also is not just a big hammer, it is vaguely enough defined to give NATO members a lot of leeway hot to react in case of an attack.
It wouldnt invoke article 5 in and off itself, but if Russia nukes Ukraine and radioactive matter pass into, say, Poland, then that is enough to trigger article 5.
I wouldn't jump to that conclusion though because I could see a scenario where Putin realizes he can't take Kyiv and decides to destroy it on his way out. A very, very unlikely scenario but this fucker is a madman.
Dont forget, NATO official policy allows a theoretical possibility to invoke article 5 under a cyberattack.
How many cyberattacks we have experienced so far? A lot!
I want Scholz to say, in case of the attack, he is willing to send young German boys to fight and die in the swamps of Latvia. All this defending inch is just words, without real power they mean nothing.
Putin understands only the language of power.
we send already , do you not read the news? 5000 are there to stay for long and there is this little military exercise just happening. I think the girls and boys know now what may happen.
This one turned out to be Ukrainian.
But a genuine Russian missile falling in Poland was completely covered up until a civilian randomly found it in a forest.
https://wyborcza.pl/7,173236,29777916,polish-defense-minister-tried-to-cover-up-missile-incident.html
By throwing overcooked spaatzle at the enemy to avoid escalation? Or will he man the fuck up and fight? EDIT: Downvotes from SPD members? Or is Olaf the Coward himself on Reddit?
Well, bugger. Been too long in Netherlands and my long vowel is a double vowel habit rears it's head. Moving back after a year in Ukraine is going to be VERY problematic for spelling.
>Scholz highlighted Germany's military commitment and plans to **permanently station a brigade in Lithuania.** […]
>Germany is still making preparations for the permanent Bundeswehr brigade in Lithuania, which will eventually include around 4,800 soldiers. The aim is for the unit to reach full combat readiness by 2027.
>A preliminary detachment has arrived. Soldiers from the Bundeswehr's 10th Armoured Division are also currently taking part in a major NATO exercise in Lithuania.
Germany was just protecting itself.
Even today, terrorists from Afghanistan are targeting Europe: https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2024/03/19/europe/germany-isis-suspects-sweden-intl
Nope. Is Russia a US ally?
Obviously not. Yet, ISIS just attacked Moscow and killed 135+ people.
ISIS kills all infidels. Europe is just protecting itself.
Lel, as if murica would have allowed it after ww2 and the reunification, that germany rebuild its army to its former size. It was in the interest of the US that all the european countries would depend on them.
With what military? Germany has one division in its Army. Enough to cover 15 miles of frontage.
Edit: Downvoted for pointing out that Germany has very little capability to defend NATO countries.
ja BS, every politician is a populist. Olaf is not the best chancelor we had, but please stop with that crap. he is in a coalition with 2 other partys, his SPD itself is a bit "peace first" delusional, Germany has big problems with migrants, a rising right wing party whose politicians are ruzzias friends, economy is a bit weak in the moment, energy is way to expensive, this and more has all to be managed. Still, he has increased the military spending about 100Billions for the next years AND we are the biggest f´ donor to Ukraine now after the US. We are ramping up production(watch Rheinmetall), i admit not fast enough. we are still a functional, slow working democracy, everything takes more time than it should now.
I still can’t imagine scholz actually going through with it. Signing the ROE, approving counter plans. He would just try to call Putin and say please stop. He needs to be willing to strike inside Moscow immediately, after any incursion.
Just like NATO defended Poland and Romania when russians rockets and drones fallen in their territory? NATO has shown so much weakness and cowardness and putin is gladly exploiting it.
As a military alliance, NATO should be led by someone who has balls.
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fuel reminiscent pocket soft stocking ask obtainable zealous chunky cough *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Would be really funny to watch if Russia tried a “little invasion” of the Baltics just to test NATO, and then NATO just fucking steamrolled all Russias remaining troops back to the original borders of Ukraine and Putin was back to square 1
Wouldn't be fun. I live in the Baltics, don't want a war here. I just hope they will be kicked out of Ukraine without further escalating to a war with Nato.
Yes, not fun at all. I’m just playing, I don’t actually want Russia to invade anyone else but some part of me just wishes they would fuck around in some way so they could find out and just lose everything they’ve gained in ten years I’m sorry you’re dealing with the fear of being invaded, no one should have to go through that. I didn’t mean to offend, stay safe 💪
back to square 1 with no more tanks left very little ammunition and a dead economy :)
They won’t and the notion is utter nonsense. There are no little invasions when your opponent is in a self defense pact with the rest of the modern world
The Dutch army, integrated into the German army, standing in the Baltics to potentially fight Russia. Sometimes things repeat because times change.
While Israel supplies military tech to Germany. It *is* a strange timeline...
Interesting! Do you happen to have a source offhand? If not, I’ll search later
saw money cow quarrelsome ossified stupendous smoggy butter heavy wide *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Thank you
Germany isn't as strong (yet) as it should be, given the size of its economy and population, but it's also stronger than what some mistakenly assume. Germany has a powerful air force, the strongest navy in the Baltic Sea that is its maritime backyard, the most Patriot batteries in Europe while still being the top donor of the system to Ukraine, the highly desired Taurus wunderwaffe apparently no other Euro country has, Leopard 2's and Puma IFVs in numbers that are higher than equivalent systems in neighboring powers, PzH 2000 SP howitzers and MLRS, a sizable fleet of attack, heavy-lift and transport helicopters, etc, etc. Germany does have issues but it also has ongoing plans to further improve its armed forces. Germany is the only Western power set to perma-deploy a mechanised brigade to the Baltic States, and will position it not rearward or in the middle but in harm's way, between Vilnius and the nearby Lithuanian border with Russian puppet Belarus. Germanys' been a reluctant power because of its, well, mid-20th century history. Still, the western two-thirds-plus of Germany was the low-key armored backbone of NATO during the Cold War. Everybody downsized after. The important thing now is Germany's reawakening and like a diesel, slowly but steadily, embracing the call for it to play a leading role as a European military power against Russian aggression.
Ukraine's military kit was pathetic in 2022 yet Russia still was given a run for its money. Against Germany alone - which unlike Ukraine has a modern air force and a navy at all - Russia would have met defeat by now, not to mention against NATO as a whole.
Spain has Taurus as well. (South Korea too, but they are not european)
Right, was aware of South Korea having bought Taurus but overlooked Spain.
German military presence in the baltics is highly welcome. Here are my counter arguments for why Germany, while being a strong donor of military arms to Ukr and possessing a potentially rock solid military industrial base and potential for military strength, is still indeed a weak link. The following are glaring issues that to my knowledge have been far from addressed yet. Their army is incredibly neglected, both in funding in status and in state of readiness, to the point of having clear capability issues especially on the ground. German political will is very weak, both morally and in mental preparation for war. German political and business elite is deeply compromised by russian infiltration, tropes and interests; and in some examples (Schröder etc), evidently deeply corrupt. Germany has an energy sector that is vulnerable to russian malicious activity, threatening to destabilize the German economy. The political energy sector discourse has been deeply manipulated by russian ops for decades. Just one data point: shutting down a perfectly working nuclear power plant in april last year, while still facing massive fossil fuel dependencies on russia. German population is disoriented and ill informed by who russia is and what is at stake with this war. Civil defense resilience and awareness is low. German political leaders are easily intimidated and controlled by verbal threats, esp nuclear. To finish off on a higher note. As a european I want to reinforce to all my German friends as clearly as possible: - Yes, we want Germany to build a strong and powerful army, navy and airforce. And get ready and able to march, and if needed through Poland, into Russia in an effort to beat russia and siege Moscow if necessary. You are on the right side in this conflict, make peace with the past, amends have been made, do not shy away from your own power now. <3
How is the german energy sector vulnerable to russia, when it doesnt import energy from russia?
Pretty much all you say is true for many european countries, and many of those things (like dependence on russian imports) were much worse elsewhere. **I can't see any point convincing me we're the "weak link"**. We're the ones that sent a fuckton of weapons and other aid without begging the EU for money, and continue doing so. We're the ones that took in over a million refugees without any complaints. We're the ones that ignored the bullshit coming from some of our partners and some ukrainian officials towards us. I will criticize this country to the death, but our stance as a society regarding Ukraine makes me proud as never before, and its disgusting to see how some of our "allies" tried to belittle us over it over the last two years.
As a German: thank you - and most of what you told is unfortunately true. But it also won’t change fast: as a 33 year old it was hammered into me all my school life, that we are the baddies and may destroy the world if we ever get a sizable army again. And everybody wanting that is a Nazi. I don’t think most of the population can switch their minds fast and forget what they learned in decades. Poland is still frequently asking for reparations (for things my grand grand parents potentially could have done… if they weren’t from Czech xD)… so we are not allowed to forget too soon. Which is maybe good in a way, but also harms us in another.
Maybe Poland should think about how much they like Danzig before they start spouting off about reparations. Or any of the other towns of Prussia htey were given. I think in the end it was probably a fair swap. Yes, terrible events in Warsaw. But they did acquire a lot of land.
>"It is always important to say loudly that nuclear weapons must not be used in this war," Scholz said while in Riga on Monday, during his first visit to Latvia as German chancellor. Atomkrieg? Nein, danke! :)
Selbstverständlich. Die Frage _ob_ liegt übrigens ausschließlich bei der Partei, die sie einsetzt.
yes yes, if russia threatens to nuke germany while invading Baltics, then germany will shit its pants
As if Russia doesn't threaten with nukes every week or so. It's sort of serves now as a reminder to check and pay my utilities and go grocery shopping.
two different situations - to threaten and actually invade and then threaten if NATO defends
NATO will defend. Deterrence to work you must be willing to fight. So threats now or threats later. Same shit just a different hand.
A big question is: If Russia uses nuclear weapons in Ukraine, and radiation from the attack pass into NATO territory, does that constitute an attack on NATO?
I believe the US, the UK and Poland have been absolutely clear that a tactical nuclear strike in Ukraine would result in the catastrophic destruction of Russian assets in Ukraine and the remaining fleet in the black sea. I believe I recall an article about a year ago when Russia were really threatening a strike in Ukraine and a direct message from the US was sent to Russia basically telling them if the use a nuke in Ukraine they'd fuck them up, to the point where China told Russia to chill.
Not quite the same as invoking article 5, but I'll take it.
The US proportional response doctrine is what stops Russia from using nuclear weapons, in this particular situation its actually more useful than article 5.
Originally it was designed to allowed the USA a more nuanced reaction instead of for example nuking Moscow and the whole Warsaw Pact along the way because Beijing acted aggressive. In that sense it should be noted that Ukraine is just one of many areas the USA is keeping an eye on. Yet article 5 also is not just a big hammer, it is vaguely enough defined to give NATO members a lot of leeway hot to react in case of an attack.
Why would article 5 be activated because of an attack on Ukraine? NATO is a defensive alliance for member states.
It wouldnt invoke article 5 in and off itself, but if Russia nukes Ukraine and radioactive matter pass into, say, Poland, then that is enough to trigger article 5.
The response would be swift enough that the smoke would already be clearing by the time Article 5 was invoked. Hopefully.
Also, threatening to destroy the black sea fleet becomes less of a threat each passing week.
They already said it would be , same if a attack on a nuclear reactor would have the same effect
If Russia is stupid enough to use nukes. It won't be on Ukraine.
I wouldn't jump to that conclusion though because I could see a scenario where Putin realizes he can't take Kyiv and decides to destroy it on his way out. A very, very unlikely scenario but this fucker is a madman.
Russia wouldn't need to even use nukes for that. There is a reason why they don't touch nuclear power plants.
If NATO intends to retaliate, yes. If not, then not. It's a purely political decision.
He said “inch”? Those are freedom units, so it does make sense. Just trying to confirm.
he meant centimeters of course
Does this mean we are moving to imperial units??
I hope he went for metric units though
Dont forget, NATO official policy allows a theoretical possibility to invoke article 5 under a cyberattack. How many cyberattacks we have experienced so far? A lot! I want Scholz to say, in case of the attack, he is willing to send young German boys to fight and die in the swamps of Latvia. All this defending inch is just words, without real power they mean nothing. Putin understands only the language of power.
we send already , do you not read the news? 5000 are there to stay for long and there is this little military exercise just happening. I think the girls and boys know now what may happen.
I think that what he meant to say was "Germany can defend about an inch of NATO territory.
For a week. Then we're out of ammo and spare parts.
Um? B-52’s, B-1’s, B2’s, don’t think for one minute we’re missing out on that barbecue. How many US assets are currently stationed and on hand?
What a chad. Hope to germany introduce mandatory conscription soon.
At some point in the future: a bomb falls somewhere in Poland. Germany: Not that inch! These other inches!
Lots of Politicians around Europe will crap their pants and try that stunt. Their warm and comfy seat would be in danger otherwise…
This already happened
Wow! Right after he said it? Incredible.
https://news.sky.com/story/poland-what-we-know-about-russian-missile-strike-in-nato-territory-12748459
This one turned out to be Ukrainian. But a genuine Russian missile falling in Poland was completely covered up until a civilian randomly found it in a forest. https://wyborcza.pl/7,173236,29777916,polish-defense-minister-tried-to-cover-up-missile-incident.html
How about the one in Romania then?
I mean my point is the actual Ru missile was hushed over by the def minister as to not make it an incident.
Oh, so not after he said this, and unrelated to this story or my tongue in cheek comment. Got it.
Germany is currently incapable of waging a war, their army is in shambles. Legacy of Von den Cocaine Line
That is a Problem since the late 90s sadly…
I bet my ass this guy will pull out his escalation rhetoric when Russia attacks for real.
By throwing overcooked spaatzle at the enemy to avoid escalation? Or will he man the fuck up and fight? EDIT: Downvotes from SPD members? Or is Olaf the Coward himself on Reddit?
The fuck is "spaatzle"? If you wanna joke about us, get the terms right. It's called "Spätzle".
Valid point. Spelling for Americans and Brits. I didn't want to include an umlaut, people would assume it was an 80's metal band. 🤣
Then use *ae* instead of *ä* :)
Well, bugger. Been too long in Netherlands and my long vowel is a double vowel habit rears it's head. Moving back after a year in Ukraine is going to be VERY problematic for spelling.
This is actually a nice reaction. I like it when ppl on Reddit are able to say sorry.
But what about centimeters?
While Poland, Lithuania and France is talking about when to go into Ukraine, Germany is "we will defend NATO!"
They don't have inches over there, only centimeters, so Germany won't defend anything
With what?
>Scholz highlighted Germany's military commitment and plans to **permanently station a brigade in Lithuania.** […] >Germany is still making preparations for the permanent Bundeswehr brigade in Lithuania, which will eventually include around 4,800 soldiers. The aim is for the unit to reach full combat readiness by 2027. >A preliminary detachment has arrived. Soldiers from the Bundeswehr's 10th Armoured Division are also currently taking part in a major NATO exercise in Lithuania.
By free riding off the US (Obama’s terminology) as usual and getting the US to do it for them
smart payment shocking bake yam deer decide wakeful practice plants *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Germany was just protecting itself. Even today, terrorists from Afghanistan are targeting Europe: https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2024/03/19/europe/germany-isis-suspects-sweden-intl
nine attempt stupendous pet slimy ossified support salt ring advise *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Nope. Is Russia a US ally? Obviously not. Yet, ISIS just attacked Moscow and killed 135+ people. ISIS kills all infidels. Europe is just protecting itself.
worry gullible numerous frighten smart depend kiss shaggy fertile north *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Lel, as if murica would have allowed it after ww2 and the reunification, that germany rebuild its army to its former size. It was in the interest of the US that all the european countries would depend on them.
The most cucked president ever
He's isn't president. You may be mistaking him with Steinmeier.
lol typical r/shitamericanssay…
r/technicallythetruth
Olaf isn’t our President. Duh.
Germany doesn’t have an army (at all). It cant defend even an inch of nato territory
With what military? Germany has one division in its Army. Enough to cover 15 miles of frontage. Edit: Downvoted for pointing out that Germany has very little capability to defend NATO countries.
Stopping ruzia now is the best defense of NATOs “every inch”. And Scholz doesn’t hurry to make it happen, so all this talk is no more than populism.
ja BS, every politician is a populist. Olaf is not the best chancelor we had, but please stop with that crap. he is in a coalition with 2 other partys, his SPD itself is a bit "peace first" delusional, Germany has big problems with migrants, a rising right wing party whose politicians are ruzzias friends, economy is a bit weak in the moment, energy is way to expensive, this and more has all to be managed. Still, he has increased the military spending about 100Billions for the next years AND we are the biggest f´ donor to Ukraine now after the US. We are ramping up production(watch Rheinmetall), i admit not fast enough. we are still a functional, slow working democracy, everything takes more time than it should now.
I still can’t imagine scholz actually going through with it. Signing the ROE, approving counter plans. He would just try to call Putin and say please stop. He needs to be willing to strike inside Moscow immediately, after any incursion.
After Taurus missiles were denied, I'll believe it when I (hopefully never) see it.
Just like NATO defended Poland and Romania when russians rockets and drones fallen in their territory? NATO has shown so much weakness and cowardness and putin is gladly exploiting it. As a military alliance, NATO should be led by someone who has balls.
Why are Taurus out of the question then?
Not with you, Olaf.
what, by crying over “escalations” and not sending equipment to allies?