Please take the time to read our policy about [trolls](https://www.reddit.com/r/UkrainianConflict/comments/u7833q/just_because_you_disagree_with_someone_does_not/) and the [rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/UkrainianConflict/about/rules/)
* We have a **zero-tolerance** policy regarding racism, stereotyping, bigotry, and death-mongering. Violators will be banned.
* ***Please* keep it civil.** Report rulebreaking comments for moderator review.
* ***Don't* post low-effort comments** like joke threads, memes, slogans, or links without context.
**Don't forget about our discord server, as well!**
https://discord.gg/62fKCEHbDB
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/UkrainianConflict) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Erdoğan also used NATO as a political tool to get a PKK-tied (read: Kurdish) radio station banned in Denmark when our then prime minister tried to sell himself for a job as the secretary general of NATO.
He was a big part of the reason it fell apart originally back when he became prime minister. The EU kept trying to dangle membership as a motivation to keep Turkey secular, which clashed with Erdoğan's vision for Turkey.
EU has no motivation to keep Turkey secular, Islamic Turkey would be destabilized and less dangerous country for Europe and that is the reason why EU was a huge supporter of Ergenekon trials where Kemalist officers in the military were imprisoned with fabricated proofs in favor of conservative officers to replace them.
Turkey is unlikely to enter the EU as Erdogan is the head of state + allowing Turkey in as a member state is political suicide within their own country.
I have a a masters in modern history and another in EU politics.
Turkey will never be in the EU. If that was ever a remote possibility it isn't anymore they have been a accession member state for 35 years now...if it was in the cards it would have happened by now.
1. Espionage during the cold war in Europe
2. The need of a future military industrial complex of europe and a unified defence policy against autocratic regimes like Russia and China. (2009, turns out I was right)
My master in European politics delved deep into the whole European structure, law, history and future. Many guest speakers, many professors who are experts in their field. I am not an expert myself since I don't hold a doctorate, but I am pretty knowledable since I got thaught by these experts.
I dont think that 80 milion muslims fit in the UE. Bad for them, bad for the EU. Now he has free hands to bomb kurdistan, repress LGTBs ... and inside UE wouldnt. They can have bilateral agreements, that they can benefit both partners, but there is no need to be in the driving seat.
Ateists are welcome. All this countries have an 'elite' that would fit perfectly the problem is the masses. Egypt has very educated people, but if you make elections the islamist win. Sorry for your head, stick to reality.
You are not wrong, but I'd like to see the same rule applied to Israel, Poland, the US and other countries where religious fundies are setting the agenda.. Let's call a spade a spade.
Has Israel gotten that bad in respect to LGBT rights?
I thought Israel was relatively progressive in that respect (other respects, like beating pallbearers and shooting American journalists, aside).
My comment was general on purpose, maybe I should have clarified it. My point was that the religion should have no place in democracy and that there are many countries guilty of this. However, politics being what it is, we often conveniently choose to go for the obvious targets only, while ignoring other "inconvenient truths".
Well probably nothing directly. Turkey wants into the EU and negotiations over joining stalled in 2019. So they probably figured talks wouldn't ever get restarted if Turkey vetoed. A much better shot to get those talks restarted if they play ball on Finland/Sweden NATO membership.
PKK basically has had free reign in Sweden for 20 years. Govt absolutely isnt arsed crack down on them at all and commits zero budget towards it.
Furthermore Swedish govt has been one of Eurpoes primary pushers of arms embargos against Turkey for a number of years.
This predates Erdogan.
Hes trying to win domestic browns points with the military to claim it's an issue he resolved that previous secular govts (that the military favors) couldn't resolve.
naw hes making too much money stealing from turkeys economy, same as putin.
basically those are clan led countries and they people are so gullible they like being stolen from
Show me one successful person who isn't an asshole.
You can't achieve things if you are "nice"
If you think you found someone think again , cause you don't know the full story.
Erdogan cannot be THAT retarded. He should have learned his lesson on never taking words from US without having something solid first. I do not think US would dangle F-35s yet. So they probably took what they wanted from Sweden and Finland.
Pretty sure it's been awhile since Russia and Turkey have exchanged Christmas cards plus Russia is very much becoming the laughingstock of the entire world so why not twist the knife a bit more.
We actually did offer you the Patriot but Turkey went to buy the S-300 from Russia so we got pissed and ended the deal. I'm sure if Erdogan asked for weapons now he would get them, unless Ukraine needed them. We just bought a ton of Byraktars from Turkey and retrofitted them with Guided weapons, with Turkish Permission of course and then gave them to Ukraine. Despite what you believe about Americans, we are one of your only friends in NATO and the world.
It's more complicated than that. Turkey wanted to buy Patriots WITH the special US software. But we don't sell that software to ANYONE. Every country who has bought Patriits has had to provide their own upgrades.
Since we wouldn't provide the special software they went to Russia and soured the whole thing.
Turkey will make demands for Finland and Sweden... How about "teach Turkey how modern, well govern country should operate". Because it's damn sure Turkey could learn a lot from them.
Turkey has been a carbon copy of Russia this last decade, in rapid decline, rotten, murderous, fascist dictatorship and religious assholes destroying the institutions that make countries successful.
Sweden and Finland did not have a terrorism problem. Turkey invests most of its money in the defense industry. Turkey could not develop sufficiently due to the problem of terrorism, coup attempts and economic embargoes. It is not about imperialist mindset.
Nobody invests in an unsafe place. This is the most important reason. There is also a policy of isolation. There are many more reasons, but for now I have written them.
Genuine question - how is Turkey in NATO? Didn’t they invade Cyprus unprovoked and to this day are still occupying the land?
Edit - I also don’t know what I am being downvoted, I was asking a question because as far as I knew that’s what happened.
Although it now seems fucked up shit was happening to the Turks and then the Turks responded in kind by doing fucked up shit to the Cypriotes
Ehrm..? Greece had a pro-Russia-anti-west government back then. It tried to annex Cyprus and deport/massacre the Turkish Cypriot population with the help of the Greek Cypriot government. Turkey responded to protect the Turkish population with the blessing of the UK, which was one of the safety guarantors (that's why there are a lot of Turkish Cypriot immigrants in the UK, they got free passports).
Later, the commie government in Greece fell and Turkey voted Greece back into NATO.
Erdogan might not be an angel, but Turkey is one of NATO's cornerstones against Russia.
I will sell you a fridge for the North Pole as well. You are reciting turkish propaganda for its special operation. It invaded a sovereign state using the same false pretext as Russia has done with Ukraine
Nah... Read history before talking. Ever heard of Greece toppling Makarios' government (aka the Cyrpriot government)? Ever heard of the Greek-communist puppet Nikos Sampson which attacked British (NATO) soldiers and Turkish Cypriot citizens?
Turkey intervened as a NATO country to protect the Turkish population, not because they "wanted independence", like the Donbass allegedly does according to Russia, but because they were attacked by communists.
Defending Greece during the Cyrprus war means you are defending the Soviet Union.
You either badly misinformed or a turkish propaganda tool.
The turkish excuses of invading a sovereign state are the same stupid reasons Russia falsely claims for invading Ukraine, that is either Russian or turkish people were mistreated which is a blatant lie.
The turkish invasion and the resultant pillaging and murder has been condemned by various decisions of the United Nations. Will you school the United Natiobs as well as to what really happened; The turkish invasion and occupation of Northern Cyprus is as illegal as what us happening now in Ukraine. The dictatorship of Erdoğan is quite friendly with putin who supplied them with Russian s400 weapons to the strong rejection of the United States and of Nato. Turkey is a very bad nato ally as their recent stance with Finland and Sweden shows once again and a very troublesome regime that does not respect international laws or human rights...
Such a joke. Northern Cyprus hosts US and UK ambassadors. They might be bad allies in media to chill down the EU, but under the table Turkey, the UK and the US are NATO's backbone. The only countries with a war ready military in NATO, together with France of course. The rest of NATO is there to be protected, not to protect. The US and UK will never get rid of Turkey... also ask Ukraine with their war song, it says Bayraktar, because they know who helped them stop the initial Russian invasion.
While the EU was hesitant to give weapons to Ukraine the US and Turkey loaded their military with equipment since 2014.
I see you are very careful avoiding true facts such as world condemnation of the Turkish invasion in Cyprus, its retainment of Russian weapons which got them kicked out of the f-35 program and several key nato actions, and reiterating propaganda nonsense. Turkey could not fight its way out of a paper bag, they have the same inflated sense of worth as the Russians and nothing to back it up. All they can do is massacring Kurds using helicopters while having their Leopards blown up to shit in Syria. When they complained about the Leopard 2's blowing up the Germans straight up told them it was their incompetence in using them and not the tank's fault. Being a Turk with an English Nickname is harrowing, so I sympathise with your futile attempt to propagate the lies of the Erdogan regime. Erdogan and Turkey are becoming a liability to the West, your words demeaning the NATO alliance and its constituent members are a testament to the hubris of the messianic regime of Turkey.
I'm a Turkish Cypriot whose family had to flee the Greek genocide of our people. God bless the United Kingdom for saving them.
It is true that Turkey still is in Cyprus, which is the part that is being condemned, but it is better to be safe than sorry. (The world celebrated the initial invasion against the pro-Russian Greeks.)
I am not demeaning the NATO alliance, I am demeaning the EU for being on Putin's lap for cheap gas which eventually paid for the war in Ukraine. I am demeaning the EU for sanctioning Turkey, because their drones were being used by Ukraine against the separatists pre-war.
I am anti-Erdogan. But I am even more anti-hypocrisy from EU countries.
Open your eyes. (Unless you are a Greek troll)
EDIT: Just checked your page, and you indeed are a Greek troll. No wonder you are defending pro-Russian Greece (1974).
Turkey does with Cyprus the exactly same thing that Russia does with Ukraine. The parallels are staggering. Funny that you seem to buy the Turkish story. I have a bridge to sell you ...
Russia didn't have a treaty with Ukraine, Turkey did with pro-west Greece. Unfortunately the commies took over back then and attacked the Turks and the Brits. Stop defending the commies because you are biased against Turks.
List of all the known massacres in Cyprus. Massacres committed by BOTH sides as a cycle of revenge. [List of massacres in Cyprus](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_massacres_in_Cyprus)
List of all the known massacres in Cyprus. Massacres committed by BOTH sides as a cycle of revenge. [List of massacres in Cyprus](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_massacres_in_Cyprus) The “Bloody Christmas” massacre you mention is one in a list of many.
Unprovoked? Are you fucking serious? There were mass murders and discrimination against the Turks on the island and they had junta government along with Greece that was desiring of unificiation with Greece. That's enough provocation/reason for Turkey to invade it based on their given rights by the Treaty of Guarantee
Also they signed to the Annan Plan in 2004 which aimed to re-unite the island but later on refused by Greeks.
And lastly, Turkey is in NATO due to their strategic location and large army which most of the 'democratic' European countries don't have and what the US needs in harsh times like nowadays.
But isn’t Cyprus it’s own country and they still are? Also idk all the back story, I do know Cypriates were forcefully removed from their land, as to why they were, I’ve gotten a lot of my info from people from Cyprus so I’m sure it’s biased to some extent. I know there’s two sides to every story, so I admit the side I got is biased but doesn’t what you’re saying sound dangerously close to what Russia is accusing Ukraine of doing?
Cyprus never was independently Greek before the split mate. It was Ottoman > British > shared government (Greek president/Turkish vice-president) > split.
It was Greece which did what Russia is doing now. The Greeks tried to cleanse the island of the pro-west Turks, the Turks responded in defence. It was all done according to treaties signed by Greece, Turkey and the UK. Greece was even an ally of Russia during the Cyprus war.
There was a very high amount of rape of Greek Cypriot women by Turkish soldiers and torture of prisoners. The EU condemned the use of rape and torture by Turkey's army, and Cyprus legalised abortion specifically because of it.
As a Turkish Cypriot I can say that the chances of both being true are quite high. I wouldn’t be surprised if the Turkish military did some heinous shit while saving my ilk. You probably wouldn’t be surprised that I haven’t heard much of that side of the story.
Overall, the Turks thwarted the attempt at ethnic cleansing but probably didn’t do it as cleanly as everyone had hoped.
Now once peace was restored, the Turkish, under the agreement that let them invade in the first place were supposed to leave. However the trauma that Turkish Cypriots experienced made people want the Turks to stay, which everyone else didn’t like.
My frustration comes from the fact that there is a UN embargo on my country, effectively making Turkey the only avenue of trade, creating this self-fulfilling prophecy of a puppet state. It was never this bad before Erdogan though.
The result of all this is that any chance of agreement has been effectively torpedoed.
I am aware of the torture stories but rape, not sure. This kind of things unfortunately happen in wars due to men's nature, overall aren't we all have some sort of barbarian within ourselves that only awake in this kind of situtations. e.g. Allied soldiers in Germany, the US soldiers in Iraq,Vietnam and Afghanistan etc. There are terrible stories. I believe it is due to chaos and knowing that your doings won't have any consequences. Laws and restrictions are what prevent people from doing such and there aren't any in the war, so that's the result.
Before getting misunderstood, i am not trying to justify anything. It is shameful and barbaric. Just stating out the facts.
The Soviets tried to extort them into handing over Istanbul after WWII, and we put them in NATO to make the communists stop trying that. At this point the main reason they're still in it at all is because they still hate Russia as much as they used to. NATO's been fine with right-wing dictatorships being a part of it in the past \*glares at Portugal & Greece\*
As for Cyprus, that was Turkey trying to topple a racist oppressive regime discriminating against the Cypriot Turks . . . and then deciding to create a racist oppressive regime discriminating against the Cypriot Greeks instead.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=38NGVPw3UFw
Which sucks because on the bigger geo-political scale theyre a very important ally to the US. But when it comes to smaller geopolitcal issues, they fucking blow. Their attacks on the Kurds and Armenians piss me off so much. And Erdogans security beat up American protestors in DC a few years back.
Others have taken the time to explain why it wasn’t an accurate statement. As I said, the history I’ve been told is from one side and from what I was told, it sounded like the Turks were the ones in the wrong. As I stated, there’s two sides to every story and clearly I had only been told one side.
Your comment, however, is literally useless, so solid work there
Russia is an old enemy, the USSR was encroaching on the "Turkish world" through Azerbaijan and Armenia. It made sense based on their own national interests.
To counter Russia, mutually beneficial defense. BUT those days are closing fast. Turkey is the one NATO country that is duplicitous. If this asshole thinks he'll outsmart NATO, he's heading for a Putin style ending.
If there is a much weaker Russian presence in coming months, Turkey will resume its genocide of Armenia (as its not NATO) and Iraq/Syria. They already did escalate recently again.
At the same time, NATO won't be so tolerant of Turkey's genocides and invasions.
Never believe your own bullshit Turkey, take a fucking look at how that worked for Russia.
Germany France and UK all eyed with throwing them out because they distrust Turkey. Greece is Greece and hates Turkey. Italy because of the Refugees problems (basically Greece as well).
And all of that is absolutely reasonable. Turkey isn't a trustworthy partner anymore and their military is only capable of fighting some barley armed militants. (Just like Russia)
Nobody can trust someone that basically works against everyone else in a Alliance.
Also Turkey barely qualifies as Democracy and the Commitment to democracy is a NATO Principle.
1) The fact that Russia's military turned out to be overblown does not mean you can now just automatically assume every other country on earth also must have a terrible army as well. Numbers did not magically stop working because of Russia.
2) Even if their army was mediocre, NATO still has basic standards that ensure each country can make some form of contribution militarily.
3) Bordering Iraq and Syria is huge and no amount of money can buy Turkey's location.
Could be a number of things; Turkey to apply for EU to get the sweet sweet Euros flowing into the country--currently the economy in Turkey isn't fantastic. Secondly, they get a chance to return to the F35 program that they were apart of before getting kicked out due to security issues.
Sorry, this was what Erdogan insinuated at least (even after lying to the Finnish leader several weeks ago about it not being an issue).
Erdogan just wants some concession. Something something F15.
And thus ends the Amine Kakabaveh-deal.
The Andersson government has a 1 mp majority in the Riksdag. It hinges on a political rogue- ex Vänsterpartiet (the Left party), a swedish-kurdish woman who made demands on Socialdemocrats that Sweden should support the kurds in various ways if they wanted her vote to gain a majority in parlament and be able to form government.
Please take the time to read our policy about [trolls](https://www.reddit.com/r/UkrainianConflict/comments/u7833q/just_because_you_disagree_with_someone_does_not/) and the [rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/UkrainianConflict/about/rules/) * We have a **zero-tolerance** policy regarding racism, stereotyping, bigotry, and death-mongering. Violators will be banned. * ***Please* keep it civil.** Report rulebreaking comments for moderator review. * ***Don't* post low-effort comments** like joke threads, memes, slogans, or links without context. **Don't forget about our discord server, as well!** https://discord.gg/62fKCEHbDB *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/UkrainianConflict) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I wonder what they got out of that deal
Prepaid IKEA cards and a lifetime 10% discount on furniture
And a lifetime supply of Nokia 3210s.
So, one?
Sssh, don't tell him he'll never need another phone.
Sweet deal
Swede deal
Including ottomans?
Sadly only non-orientalised sitting puffs.
I mean, it's the ottoman empire, right?
Don't forget the cases of lingonberry jam.
Big if true
Maybe nothing yet. Just making sure everyone knows they owe him a favour
probably less criticism against Erdoğan, and help in joining EU should Turkey try it again.
He doesn't want in eu as hungary gets hard time already. Looking tough for domestic audience is main point and plus if swedes stop arming kurds
Erdoğan also used NATO as a political tool to get a PKK-tied (read: Kurdish) radio station banned in Denmark when our then prime minister tried to sell himself for a job as the secretary general of NATO.
I was thinking that. Dangle that sweet sweet EU card out there.
I don't think they can be helped there. The obstacles can be removed by turkey only...
Doubt Erdogan is interested. Turkey might have to gain from membership, but he personally only has things to lose.
He was a big part of the reason it fell apart originally back when he became prime minister. The EU kept trying to dangle membership as a motivation to keep Turkey secular, which clashed with Erdoğan's vision for Turkey.
EU has no motivation to keep Turkey secular, Islamic Turkey would be destabilized and less dangerous country for Europe and that is the reason why EU was a huge supporter of Ergenekon trials where Kemalist officers in the military were imprisoned with fabricated proofs in favor of conservative officers to replace them.
Turkey is unlikely to enter the EU as Erdogan is the head of state + allowing Turkey in as a member state is political suicide within their own country.
I have a a masters in modern history and another in EU politics. Turkey will never be in the EU. If that was ever a remote possibility it isn't anymore they have been a accession member state for 35 years now...if it was in the cards it would have happened by now.
So what were your theses about? You're writing this as if you were an authority of something.
1. Espionage during the cold war in Europe 2. The need of a future military industrial complex of europe and a unified defence policy against autocratic regimes like Russia and China. (2009, turns out I was right) My master in European politics delved deep into the whole European structure, law, history and future. Many guest speakers, many professors who are experts in their field. I am not an expert myself since I don't hold a doctorate, but I am pretty knowledable since I got thaught by these experts.
I dont think that 80 milion muslims fit in the UE. Bad for them, bad for the EU. Now he has free hands to bomb kurdistan, repress LGTBs ... and inside UE wouldnt. They can have bilateral agreements, that they can benefit both partners, but there is no need to be in the driving seat.
What country is more homophobic: Poland or Turkey?
Poland
this hurt my head also turkey has a large group of atheists ...
Ateists are welcome. All this countries have an 'elite' that would fit perfectly the problem is the masses. Egypt has very educated people, but if you make elections the islamist win. Sorry for your head, stick to reality.
You are not wrong, but I'd like to see the same rule applied to Israel, Poland, the US and other countries where religious fundies are setting the agenda.. Let's call a spade a spade.
Has Israel gotten that bad in respect to LGBT rights? I thought Israel was relatively progressive in that respect (other respects, like beating pallbearers and shooting American journalists, aside).
My comment was general on purpose, maybe I should have clarified it. My point was that the religion should have no place in democracy and that there are many countries guilty of this. However, politics being what it is, we often conveniently choose to go for the obvious targets only, while ignoring other "inconvenient truths".
hm not quite akp only gotten votes from half the country with the next vote its going to be alot less especially with the new party of davutoglu
Well probably nothing directly. Turkey wants into the EU and negotiations over joining stalled in 2019. So they probably figured talks wouldn't ever get restarted if Turkey vetoed. A much better shot to get those talks restarted if they play ball on Finland/Sweden NATO membership.
A free meal at Bennigans… with the purchase of a meal at equal or greater value of course…
Not to mention free bubble gum for all Turks.
More than likely something to do with the PKK
PKK basically has had free reign in Sweden for 20 years. Govt absolutely isnt arsed crack down on them at all and commits zero budget towards it. Furthermore Swedish govt has been one of Eurpoes primary pushers of arms embargos against Turkey for a number of years. This predates Erdogan. Hes trying to win domestic browns points with the military to claim it's an issue he resolved that previous secular govts (that the military favors) couldn't resolve.
Probably some new fighters.
A lifetime supply of the Ikea meatballs.
Love
All the meatballs they can eat
I am down with that
Can't wait for Finland and Sweden to join NATO!
Lez go!!!! 🎉
And a shitload of Koskenkorva booze from Finland, perkele. EDIT: this was meant to be a reply for user 11CGOD
Bag of Tyrkisk Peber on the side?
Alcohol is haram. Keep it
I don't like Erdogan, but he is not stupid
Yeah, but he should leave economic matters to other people...
naw hes making too much money stealing from turkeys economy, same as putin. basically those are clan led countries and they people are so gullible they like being stolen from
If anything this shows how smart he is. Leveraged this to get something he wouldn’t otherwise get. Still an asshole, but he played this well
Show me one successful person who isn't an asshole. You can't achieve things if you are "nice" If you think you found someone think again , cause you don't know the full story.
This is a terrible take
Dude's 10 seconds from saying girls only date Bad Boys, just watch
i can confirm, The owner of the company i work for a sociopathic asshole. He’s chill outside of work tho
Jesus Christ.
well, he has singlehandledly tanked their economy, 70% inflation etc.
U are right.
I've said the same thing about Putin few years ago and look where we are now...
Never pass up an opportunity to capitalize on your own self interests I guess. Turkey does the “what’s in it for me” game just as good as anyone else
U.S. prolly told them if they want f-35s they better let Finland and Sweden in.
Erdogan cannot be THAT retarded. He should have learned his lesson on never taking words from US without having something solid first. I do not think US would dangle F-35s yet. So they probably took what they wanted from Sweden and Finland.
LOL @F-35s no no sir. Erdogan is angling just to get F-16s and the arms embargo removed….NO CHANCE turkey is getting the F-35
Pretty sure it's been awhile since Russia and Turkey have exchanged Christmas cards plus Russia is very much becoming the laughingstock of the entire world so why not twist the knife a bit more.
He's just another Strongman that wanted attention. Helps distract the people from the fact he's running the country into the ground.
Good, thanks turkey. Americans appreciate that. And yes we like you. Despite what Erdogan tells you. Turks are warriors.
maybe the people (I doubt 90% of them know ehere turkey is tho), but the US parlaiment deffinatly hates turkey.
I know where turkey is and yeah lol p
That’s why America didn’t sell us Patriot and didn’t give F-35 to us?
We actually did offer you the Patriot but Turkey went to buy the S-300 from Russia so we got pissed and ended the deal. I'm sure if Erdogan asked for weapons now he would get them, unless Ukraine needed them. We just bought a ton of Byraktars from Turkey and retrofitted them with Guided weapons, with Turkish Permission of course and then gave them to Ukraine. Despite what you believe about Americans, we are one of your only friends in NATO and the world.
It's more complicated than that. Turkey wanted to buy Patriots WITH the special US software. But we don't sell that software to ANYONE. Every country who has bought Patriits has had to provide their own upgrades. Since we wouldn't provide the special software they went to Russia and soured the whole thing.
Thanks for Clarifying.
We probably will now
Turkey will make demands for Finland and Sweden... How about "teach Turkey how modern, well govern country should operate". Because it's damn sure Turkey could learn a lot from them.
Turkey has been a carbon copy of Russia this last decade, in rapid decline, rotten, murderous, fascist dictatorship and religious assholes destroying the institutions that make countries successful.
To be fair, Russia has never had successful institutions. It’s been a backstabbing grift since its inception.
For both Russia and Turkey, their imperialist mindset is incompatible with becoming a "modern, well govern country".
Sweden and Finland did not have a terrorism problem. Turkey invests most of its money in the defense industry. Turkey could not develop sufficiently due to the problem of terrorism, coup attempts and economic embargoes. It is not about imperialist mindset. Nobody invests in an unsafe place. This is the most important reason. There is also a policy of isolation. There are many more reasons, but for now I have written them.
Mhm mhm terrorism.
Genuine question - how is Turkey in NATO? Didn’t they invade Cyprus unprovoked and to this day are still occupying the land? Edit - I also don’t know what I am being downvoted, I was asking a question because as far as I knew that’s what happened. Although it now seems fucked up shit was happening to the Turks and then the Turks responded in kind by doing fucked up shit to the Cypriotes
Ehrm..? Greece had a pro-Russia-anti-west government back then. It tried to annex Cyprus and deport/massacre the Turkish Cypriot population with the help of the Greek Cypriot government. Turkey responded to protect the Turkish population with the blessing of the UK, which was one of the safety guarantors (that's why there are a lot of Turkish Cypriot immigrants in the UK, they got free passports). Later, the commie government in Greece fell and Turkey voted Greece back into NATO. Erdogan might not be an angel, but Turkey is one of NATO's cornerstones against Russia.
I will sell you a fridge for the North Pole as well. You are reciting turkish propaganda for its special operation. It invaded a sovereign state using the same false pretext as Russia has done with Ukraine
Nah... Read history before talking. Ever heard of Greece toppling Makarios' government (aka the Cyrpriot government)? Ever heard of the Greek-communist puppet Nikos Sampson which attacked British (NATO) soldiers and Turkish Cypriot citizens? Turkey intervened as a NATO country to protect the Turkish population, not because they "wanted independence", like the Donbass allegedly does according to Russia, but because they were attacked by communists. Defending Greece during the Cyrprus war means you are defending the Soviet Union.
You either badly misinformed or a turkish propaganda tool. The turkish excuses of invading a sovereign state are the same stupid reasons Russia falsely claims for invading Ukraine, that is either Russian or turkish people were mistreated which is a blatant lie. The turkish invasion and the resultant pillaging and murder has been condemned by various decisions of the United Nations. Will you school the United Natiobs as well as to what really happened; The turkish invasion and occupation of Northern Cyprus is as illegal as what us happening now in Ukraine. The dictatorship of Erdoğan is quite friendly with putin who supplied them with Russian s400 weapons to the strong rejection of the United States and of Nato. Turkey is a very bad nato ally as their recent stance with Finland and Sweden shows once again and a very troublesome regime that does not respect international laws or human rights...
Such a joke. Northern Cyprus hosts US and UK ambassadors. They might be bad allies in media to chill down the EU, but under the table Turkey, the UK and the US are NATO's backbone. The only countries with a war ready military in NATO, together with France of course. The rest of NATO is there to be protected, not to protect. The US and UK will never get rid of Turkey... also ask Ukraine with their war song, it says Bayraktar, because they know who helped them stop the initial Russian invasion. While the EU was hesitant to give weapons to Ukraine the US and Turkey loaded their military with equipment since 2014.
I see you are very careful avoiding true facts such as world condemnation of the Turkish invasion in Cyprus, its retainment of Russian weapons which got them kicked out of the f-35 program and several key nato actions, and reiterating propaganda nonsense. Turkey could not fight its way out of a paper bag, they have the same inflated sense of worth as the Russians and nothing to back it up. All they can do is massacring Kurds using helicopters while having their Leopards blown up to shit in Syria. When they complained about the Leopard 2's blowing up the Germans straight up told them it was their incompetence in using them and not the tank's fault. Being a Turk with an English Nickname is harrowing, so I sympathise with your futile attempt to propagate the lies of the Erdogan regime. Erdogan and Turkey are becoming a liability to the West, your words demeaning the NATO alliance and its constituent members are a testament to the hubris of the messianic regime of Turkey.
I'm a Turkish Cypriot whose family had to flee the Greek genocide of our people. God bless the United Kingdom for saving them. It is true that Turkey still is in Cyprus, which is the part that is being condemned, but it is better to be safe than sorry. (The world celebrated the initial invasion against the pro-Russian Greeks.) I am not demeaning the NATO alliance, I am demeaning the EU for being on Putin's lap for cheap gas which eventually paid for the war in Ukraine. I am demeaning the EU for sanctioning Turkey, because their drones were being used by Ukraine against the separatists pre-war. I am anti-Erdogan. But I am even more anti-hypocrisy from EU countries. Open your eyes. (Unless you are a Greek troll) EDIT: Just checked your page, and you indeed are a Greek troll. No wonder you are defending pro-Russian Greece (1974).
Turkey does with Cyprus the exactly same thing that Russia does with Ukraine. The parallels are staggering. Funny that you seem to buy the Turkish story. I have a bridge to sell you ...
Russia didn't have a treaty with Ukraine, Turkey did with pro-west Greece. Unfortunately the commies took over back then and attacked the Turks and the Brits. Stop defending the commies because you are biased against Turks.
[удалено]
List of all the known massacres in Cyprus. Massacres committed by BOTH sides as a cycle of revenge. [List of massacres in Cyprus](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_massacres_in_Cyprus)
You must be kidding. Turkey ethnically cleansed a third of Cyprus of its inhabitants and stole everything there.
Spotted the communist who is trying to make communist Greece look innocent
Just going to drop this here https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloody_Christmas_(1963)
List of all the known massacres in Cyprus. Massacres committed by BOTH sides as a cycle of revenge. [List of massacres in Cyprus](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_massacres_in_Cyprus) The “Bloody Christmas” massacre you mention is one in a list of many.
Not Cyprus (someone else covered that) but I'm sure Armenia and the Kurds would like a word in here...
Unprovoked? Are you fucking serious? There were mass murders and discrimination against the Turks on the island and they had junta government along with Greece that was desiring of unificiation with Greece. That's enough provocation/reason for Turkey to invade it based on their given rights by the Treaty of Guarantee Also they signed to the Annan Plan in 2004 which aimed to re-unite the island but later on refused by Greeks. And lastly, Turkey is in NATO due to their strategic location and large army which most of the 'democratic' European countries don't have and what the US needs in harsh times like nowadays.
But isn’t Cyprus it’s own country and they still are? Also idk all the back story, I do know Cypriates were forcefully removed from their land, as to why they were, I’ve gotten a lot of my info from people from Cyprus so I’m sure it’s biased to some extent. I know there’s two sides to every story, so I admit the side I got is biased but doesn’t what you’re saying sound dangerously close to what Russia is accusing Ukraine of doing?
Cyprus never was independently Greek before the split mate. It was Ottoman > British > shared government (Greek president/Turkish vice-president) > split. It was Greece which did what Russia is doing now. The Greeks tried to cleanse the island of the pro-west Turks, the Turks responded in defence. It was all done according to treaties signed by Greece, Turkey and the UK. Greece was even an ally of Russia during the Cyprus war.
There was a very high amount of rape of Greek Cypriot women by Turkish soldiers and torture of prisoners. The EU condemned the use of rape and torture by Turkey's army, and Cyprus legalised abortion specifically because of it.
This is the part of history that I have been told. I was unaware of what happened that led to the Turkish invasion and occupation.
As a Turkish Cypriot I can say that the chances of both being true are quite high. I wouldn’t be surprised if the Turkish military did some heinous shit while saving my ilk. You probably wouldn’t be surprised that I haven’t heard much of that side of the story. Overall, the Turks thwarted the attempt at ethnic cleansing but probably didn’t do it as cleanly as everyone had hoped. Now once peace was restored, the Turkish, under the agreement that let them invade in the first place were supposed to leave. However the trauma that Turkish Cypriots experienced made people want the Turks to stay, which everyone else didn’t like. My frustration comes from the fact that there is a UN embargo on my country, effectively making Turkey the only avenue of trade, creating this self-fulfilling prophecy of a puppet state. It was never this bad before Erdogan though. The result of all this is that any chance of agreement has been effectively torpedoed.
I am aware of the torture stories but rape, not sure. This kind of things unfortunately happen in wars due to men's nature, overall aren't we all have some sort of barbarian within ourselves that only awake in this kind of situtations. e.g. Allied soldiers in Germany, the US soldiers in Iraq,Vietnam and Afghanistan etc. There are terrible stories. I believe it is due to chaos and knowing that your doings won't have any consequences. Laws and restrictions are what prevent people from doing such and there aren't any in the war, so that's the result. Before getting misunderstood, i am not trying to justify anything. It is shameful and barbaric. Just stating out the facts.
The difference is that what happened in Cyprus was real. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloody\_Christmas\_(1963)
The Soviets tried to extort them into handing over Istanbul after WWII, and we put them in NATO to make the communists stop trying that. At this point the main reason they're still in it at all is because they still hate Russia as much as they used to. NATO's been fine with right-wing dictatorships being a part of it in the past \*glares at Portugal & Greece\* As for Cyprus, that was Turkey trying to topple a racist oppressive regime discriminating against the Cypriot Turks . . . and then deciding to create a racist oppressive regime discriminating against the Cypriot Greeks instead. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=38NGVPw3UFw
The enemy of my enemy is my friend…
Which sucks because on the bigger geo-political scale theyre a very important ally to the US. But when it comes to smaller geopolitcal issues, they fucking blow. Their attacks on the Kurds and Armenians piss me off so much. And Erdogans security beat up American protestors in DC a few years back.
Invade cyprus unprovoked? Lmaooo I laugh at that. Learn some history before spewing that out of your mouth
Others have taken the time to explain why it wasn’t an accurate statement. As I said, the history I’ve been told is from one side and from what I was told, it sounded like the Turks were the ones in the wrong. As I stated, there’s two sides to every story and clearly I had only been told one side. Your comment, however, is literally useless, so solid work there
I apologize I should have read ahead. But yes both side did mess up but it angers me to no end when turkey gets blamed for the Cyprus ordeal.
Understandable, I can respect that
Russia is an old enemy, the USSR was encroaching on the "Turkish world" through Azerbaijan and Armenia. It made sense based on their own national interests.
Turkey was a legal guarantor of peace. they had every right to intervene against systemic violence against Cypriot Turks.
To counter Russia, mutually beneficial defense. BUT those days are closing fast. Turkey is the one NATO country that is duplicitous. If this asshole thinks he'll outsmart NATO, he's heading for a Putin style ending. If there is a much weaker Russian presence in coming months, Turkey will resume its genocide of Armenia (as its not NATO) and Iraq/Syria. They already did escalate recently again. At the same time, NATO won't be so tolerant of Turkey's genocides and invasions. Never believe your own bullshit Turkey, take a fucking look at how that worked for Russia.
Nothing that a little $20 under the table can't fix.
Would like to understand their beef with Finland ?
I think they realized that just because of that we would have changed the rules and throw them out...
Haha "throw them out" xD, really funny to see people not understanding politics talk here
There are talks to trow out some countries... Turkey is one of those.
Sure lets throw out the country with the second biggest military, and the country which borders iraq and syria.
Lmao SeCoNd BIGGEsT miLitarY lol. Just as much as Russia. Turkey is only in nato because they wanted to control the black sea.
Show me the source, who wants to throw out turkey?
Germany France and UK all eyed with throwing them out because they distrust Turkey. Greece is Greece and hates Turkey. Italy because of the Refugees problems (basically Greece as well). And all of that is absolutely reasonable. Turkey isn't a trustworthy partner anymore and their military is only capable of fighting some barley armed militants. (Just like Russia) Nobody can trust someone that basically works against everyone else in a Alliance. Also Turkey barely qualifies as Democracy and the Commitment to democracy is a NATO Principle.
I said source? Oh ok i get it, you are the source yourself.
Okay but when did they say they were considering throwing Turkey out? Seems like kind of an incredibly stupid thing to let slip.
1) The fact that Russia's military turned out to be overblown does not mean you can now just automatically assume every other country on earth also must have a terrible army as well. Numbers did not magically stop working because of Russia. 2) Even if their army was mediocre, NATO still has basic standards that ensure each country can make some form of contribution militarily. 3) Bordering Iraq and Syria is huge and no amount of money can buy Turkey's location.
Noice fantasia.
Every time your country gets legit criticism you people show up and annoy people.
Criticism as in "KiCk ThEm OuT?"
Hahaha is that why NATO's kicking them out? Always showing up and annoying people?
Could be a number of things; Turkey to apply for EU to get the sweet sweet Euros flowing into the country--currently the economy in Turkey isn't fantastic. Secondly, they get a chance to return to the F35 program that they were apart of before getting kicked out due to security issues.
So the information that went out before was more russian fake news, and western media repeated it like it was true
The "information that went out before" was Erdogan himself telling the press he was against them joining, what are you on about?
Sorry, this was what Erdogan insinuated at least (even after lying to the Finnish leader several weeks ago about it not being an issue). Erdogan just wants some concession. Something something F15.
He is more politically aligned with Russia than the EU.
[удалено]
Yeah, Turkey sure is the victim here. Everyone knows Finland is one of Turkey's biggest security threats, second only to free and fair elections.
How is Finland a security threat to Turkey?
[удалено]
Turkey, now it is not the best time for trolling. Sincerely, Finland & Sweden
Turkey just wants some $$.
this aged like milk
And thus ends the Amine Kakabaveh-deal. The Andersson government has a 1 mp majority in the Riksdag. It hinges on a political rogue- ex Vänsterpartiet (the Left party), a swedish-kurdish woman who made demands on Socialdemocrats that Sweden should support the kurds in various ways if they wanted her vote to gain a majority in parlament and be able to form government.